Nevada Voters Could Smash the Two-Party Duopoly
Abolishing party-specific primary elections makes a lot of sense, and might help steer American democracy back towards the center.

Voters in Nevada on Tuesday will have an opportunity to radically overhaul how elections in the state work—and to guarantee more political competition in the future.
Voters everywhere else might want to take note.
A proposed constitutional amendment on the Nevada ballot would do away with party-specific primary elections and replace them with a top five primary system—in which all candidates compete in the same first-round contest, with the five top vote-getters advancing to the general election ballot. The same constitutional amendment, if approved, would institute ranked choice voting for the general election among the five candidates who advanced past the primary phase.
That's similar to the model recently adopted by Alaska—voters there approved a top four primary and ranked-choice general election in a 2020 ballot question—but including five candidates in the final round ensures even more robust political competition in the election that most voters pay attention to.
There are good arguments both in favor and against ranked-choice voting. Those who support it point out, correctly, that it more fairly and accurately captures the will of the voters than a simple first-past-the-post system where the candidate with the largest pile of first-place votes wins. Critics are right to point out that it can be confusing—a criticism that can't be merely dismissed as the result of voters being unfamiliar with how it works because a big part of the legitimacy of any election system is whether the participants see it as legitimate.
Those debates will continue, but the more important part of the proposed change in Nevada (like in Alaska) is the elimination of single-party primary elections. That's a much-needed change for both principled and practical reasons.
As a matter of principle, it makes little sense for state governments to pay for primary elections, which are nothing more than internal processes for parties to choose their nominees. Turning the primary election into what would more accurately be described as a first round of the general election—with all qualified candidates, regardless of party affiliation, competing in the same contest in front of all voters—eliminates that concern.
Practically, a top-five primary could also fix the outward drift of both major political parties, which are increasingly captured by their more extreme factions. Because candidates have to survive an internal primary in order to advance to the general election under the current model used in most states, candidates are pressured to appeal to the groups of voters who show up for the lower turnout primaries. The result is often that poor general election candidates—that is, candidates who do not represent the interests of the median voter in a state or district—win the major party primaries, forcing voters to choose between the lesser of two evils in the general election.
"The root cause of our political dysfunction is that November elections in this country are for the most part meaningless," Katherine Gehl, the businesswoman who led the effort to get Nevada's proposed election overhaul on the ballot, told Vox. "Most November voters are wasting their time, which is not only profoundly undemocratic and unrepresentative, it's the reason we can't solve our complex problems and make necessary trade-offs."
The greater level of political competition that a top five primary provides would potentially break that fever. A Trumpist Republican, an establishment Republican, a moderate Democrat, a progressive, and a libertarian might all find a place on the second-round general election ballot. Instead of choosing between the lesser of two evils, voters might get be able to vote for what they actually want. Wild.
It's unlikely that reforms like this will be pushed by the two major parties, which would like to keep as much control over the process as possible. In Nevada, for example, the proposed constitutional amendment was the result of a citizen-led initiative that required getting more than 140,000 signatures to get on the ballot.
Then, it had to survive a court challenge brought by Nevada Democrats who opposed the change. In June, the Nevada Supreme Court rejected that challenge and ordered the amendment be put before the voters. Nevada Gov. Steve Sisolak, a Democrat, the state's two Democratic senators, and Nevada's lone Republican congressman all oppose the ballot question, according to The Nevada Independent.
Nevertheless, polls suggest voters are open to the idea. But this is only the beginning of a long process. The same amendment must pass in two consecutive elections before it is adopted, so Nevadans will face the same choice in 2024.
We've heard a lot about how democracy is on the ballot this Election Day. In Nevada, that's literally true. And unlike a lot of other ideas floating around out there, this proposal is one that actually will give voters more of a say about who represents them in government.
No wonder both major parties dislike it.
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If this is going to be as effective as watching movies to Smash the Patriarchy, I'll presume nothing much will come of this.
Doesn't California already do this?
And why would we want a move to ‘the center’? Isn’t that just code for progtard lite?
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You seem to have fairly described what the supporters of this reform think it will do.
My only response is this: Beware the law of unintended consequences.
Yeh, I agree. He says at the top there are pros and cons against both, but almost exclusively focuses on the pros. Would like to see more people actually talking about how these kinds of systems can/could be gamed and such to see if they are indeed better than what we have.
Fuck that bohem knows this leads to dem only elections. Just like CA. If you think bohem is anything but a Marxist cancer you are wrong. I use to think he was retarded, but Noone can be that stupid
In this case they are not unintended but unmentioned intended consequences.
It would do no such thing. Small party independents are almost never centrists. They are nearly always far to one side or another. Putting more far left or far right people into government is not going to make things more centrist.
There's more to politics than one-dimensional left/right.
https://polquiz.com/
With two parties, you have to appeal to a majority to win. With a bunch of parties, you can win by appealing to a smaller and more extreme set of voters. So, it will not pull politics to the center. It will do just the opposite.
With two parties, you have to appeal to a majority to win.
During the primaries politicians appeal to the lunatic fringe to get the nomination, then in the general election they move closer and closer to the center until the split is roughly 50/50. By the end it’s only 3-5% or so that decides the election.
Edit: and that's of the 50% of eligible voters who show up. So in the end it's maybe 2% of the population that decides the winner.
It doesn't matter if you win the primary, if you don't win the general. And with two partiers, you can't win the general without winning a majority. And the primary voters know that and tend to go for candidates they think can win. You are just ignoring the point.
Maybe instead of me deliberately ignoring your point, you're just not explaining it well.
He explained it fine. Mouth the words if it helps.
Plenty of people thought Trump could not win. People voted for him anyway.
In theory, a non-partisan primary makes the parties irrelevant to the election process (other than perhaps as a source of funding for candidates) so that in effect, you have 0 (zero) parties, not many parties.
Libertarian... so above it all.
Thanks for your 8th grade civics lesson. Glad you learned something. But your comment is still a non sequitur.
This is so true, one need only look at another very recent election to see that: Israel.
After the failure to keep Bibi out (a coalition founded on anti-people was never stable), he now has a more right-wing government than he did before his ouster.
If you have two parties, that means the winning party has to appeal to a majority to win. And that necessarily means being more centrist. If you have three or more parties, you can win with less than a majority. The more parties you have, the less incentive those parties have to move to the center and appeal to a broad coalition.
But wouldn't the winning candidate still need to get above a 50% majority in the proposed system (via ranked choice)? Am I missing something? Honest question.
No. The candidate just needs to finish higher in preferences which is not the same as winning someone's vote.
Depends whether it's IRV or Condorcet. "RCV" is ambiguous; it could even refer to STV (single transferable vote).
the winning party has to appeal to a majority to win.
Since half the country is alienated from both the Ds and the Rs, that isn't true. The winning party only has to get the votes of about 26%.
Our current state of extreme polarization would seem to disprove your "two-system rewards moderation" thesis. And they have actually done studies that show that RCV reduces political polarization. Not to mention there are numerous tweaks one could make to ensure that RCV rewards moderation (for example, awarding 2 points for a first-choice vote and 1 point for a second-choice vote).
The Alaska system was specifically introduced as an incumbent protection scheme after Murkowski was successfully primaried a few years ago but won the general as an independent. Not exactly "smashing" the duopoly there.
If the system had resulted in a MAGA guy being elected rather than Murkowski, reason wouldn't like it so much. Reason is all about getting rid of the duopoly like that.
I expect that if this passes, the legislature will soon pass a bipartisan bill requiring very high minimums of double certified signatures for candidates to get them on the first ballot.
If all candidates from any party have to collect the same number, I'd be open to talk about it.
California has a similar system (open primay but only top two advance to the fall election). We had 40 gubernatorial candidates in the primary. Most were clearly trolls, only in the race to make a point. Reading their positions was an enormous waste of time.
You want to make the, barrier to candidacy a bit, but not much, higher than that.
In terms of results, every race today is team blue vs. team red. The vast majority aren't contests at all, they're foregone conclusions. Our system isn't producing the results one might hope for. But that's likely just the CA political landscape. I doubt any system would produce different results.
Open races with lots of candidates increase voter turnout and interest. Most of them can't win but that's beside the point. Increasing ballot access barriers is a threat to democracy, one that's never really mentioned by the people currently compiling the list of threats to democracy.
My libertopia elects 3 reps from each district, who proxy their election votes in the legislature. Every voter can also submit a name, like a write-in candidate, and one is selected at random as a volunteer rep who proxies all remaining votes.
* Encourages voting whether your preferred candidate is ahead or behind in the polls, or even dead last or not even a candidate. * Eliminates the need to equalize district populations. * The volunteers scare the piss out of the professionals. * Takes the wind out of two-party politics without the extreme fragmentation of parliamentary systems.
The only real drawback is the extra calculations adding up all those proxies to tell if a bill has passed, but that’s also an advantage, making pollster predictions that much more difficult.
ETA: I see Briggs has a good point, that the more small independent parties, the less centrist they are. I think that would not be a problem here primarily because all votes past the first three winners are lumped together in the volunteer.
It does allow some real freaks to win as volunteers, but only randomly, and if most voters volunteer themselves, the volunteers are a pretty good representation of the population. If a lot of voters volunteer more mainstream freaks who run as write-ins, still only one can win per district.
My libertopia has a senate that is elected by geography so that each area gets representation. Then a house that is chosen at random like jury selection. Go ahead and weight the selection towards the more populous areas but make the House large and full of actual citizens instead of politicians.
I sure thought of entirely random citizens. The problem is the pool; if it’s the entire population, then it’s conscription; if they volunteer, it self-selects those who want the power. If conscriptionees can decline the selection, you are still left with a self-selected population.
I don’t know anyway to solve that problem, so I went with volunteers over conscription. I don’t claim it is a better choice.
Well, there is one potential fix: use volunteers to avoid conscription, then forbid them from ever running for office anywhere afterwards. That would tend to discourage wannabe professionals.
Or even better, all volunteers must never have been candidates. It's fine for volunteers to keep on volunteering; the odds of winning more than once are minuscule.
I don't have a problem with conscription. It is like jury duty. It is a price you have to pay to have a just society. I would limit the pool to people over a certain age, who haven't been convicted of felonies, who are citizens, and are mentally competent. I really think a group of random citizens would do a better job than the elected members we have.
Jury trials are one thing; two years for a legislator is too disruptive. Most people could swing a month if they have some flexibility in scheduling it, so maybe having a pool would be better.
I think banning all previous candidates from volunteering keeps the wannabe control freaks at bay.
It is not supposed to be a full time job. Make it one weekend a month and two weeks a year and most people should be able to swing that for a term.
Now there's a suggestion I can get on board with!
IF the job is too demanding for the average citizen to do a few weeks a year, then the government is too big and complicated.
I would fear that then power and DeFacto decision making will devolve to the unelected bureaucracy
I don't think you realize what happens in a "Volunteers get one shot at the ring" systems.
Spoiler: They are run by bureaucrats.
My libertopia has multiple governments. (Like we have multiple banks, multiple insurance companies, and multiple automobile manufacturers.) Security and dispute resolution is just another service/product.
You get to be governed by the party/government you vote for. Lower taxes and lower benefits, or higher taxes and higher benefits (no mooching off the other guys though.) More freedom and more responsibility, or less freedom and less responsibility.
If you commit a crime and harm someone, the case goes to the courts of the victim. If there's no victim there's no crime. If you get into a civil suit with someone from your own party, it goes to your courts. If you're from different parties it goes to a third party court.
I would probably require a party to get 1 million votes as a minimum, just to keep the chaos to a minimum. We would probably end up with 5 or 10 different options.
Sounds like you just pick the burbclave you want to live in.
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Suderman. He's transitioning into a Triggleypuff.
Triggleypuff, thanks for teaching me a new word.
"a very large feminist"
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Nice. Hadn't heard that one. It's a useful term.
More like Trigglytwig, amirite? 😉
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Eric, you're a brain dead ass.
The purpose of getting rid of party primaries is to eliminate the ability of parties to choose their best representative internally. To decide, amongst themselves, which prospective candidate will best embody and be able to enact a parties goals.
By forcing everyone into large non-partisan primaries one allows the opposition to choose one's representation.
Or lock them out--as California's growing one party rule shows us.
Exactly this.
^ Co-signed.
Boehm would love the whole country look like CA. All he cares about is legal drugs and open borders.
He also loves coming back and saying "look at all the problems these people created. It's not like I publicly supported them or anything
What about in countries that don't have government-run primaries? They still have parties nominate candidates. You eliminate public primaries, you don't eliminate private party candidate selection.
nice. got to bottom of PP3 before you used "ranked choice voting" no fucking thanks
Ranked choice will get you Democrat one-party rule.
He knows that. he wants that.
"Instead of choosing between the lesser of two evils, voters might get be able to vote for what they actually want. "
Madness !
Honestly, it's an absurd thing that we have primaries for political parties. This further entrenches them as officially government recognized entities rather than private organizations that run candidates in public elections.
This is a horrible, horrible idea.
Those who support it point out, correctly, that it more fairly and accurately captures the will of the voters than a simple first-past-the-post system where the candidate with the largest pile of first-place votes wins.
This is opinion, not fact.
I myself favor actual enumeration; not imputed like RCV.
I say this as someone open to any given alternative voting system, but how do we test it? Like you called out, that is an opinion. I can't figure out how we actually test our assertions in any of these different voting systems.
There is another way. Louisiana uses a run-off or "jungle" primary in which everyone gets put into the pool for the primary, and the general election is basically a run-off between the top two vote getters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Louisiana
Oh, yeah, David Duke vs Edwin Edwards.
Vote for the crook. It's important.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Louisiana_gubernatorial_election
There is nothing imputed about ranked-choice voting. It is mathematically indistinguishable from serial run-off elections.
1)Human reality goes way beyond math.
2)Your statement is only true if probabilities aren’t part of math.
It’s only indistinguishable if voters play the game the way you intended. As 5.56 points out, it doesn’t work that way. Quite a few voters only put down one choice, which converts it into a plurality takes all election.
Why? Some have a binary worldview, and the idea of “ranking” makes no sense to them. There is the righteous vote and any other is pointless or even unethical. Presented with a new and separate runoff, they make a new decision about what is righteous.
Others can see multiple levels, but “all or nothing” sounds like a confident decisive power player move and they like to be confident decisive power players.
And finally, the ones who think they’re doing twelve dimensional chess, for example, a Palin supporter in Alaska announcing they are not going to put down Begich as a second choice, despite preferring him to the lefty Peltiola. The “strategy” was to scare Begich voters into switching to Palin as first choice. We saw how that worked out in the special election.
On top of all that, in serial runoffs the voters have more information – they know what everyone’s first choice was, and that short circuits some the gaming.
Sorry, that makes no sense. Voters who put down only one choice are the same as voters who abstain once their preferred candidate loses out in the run-off elections. The idea that voters are too stupid to figure out how run-offs work is paternalistic and unjustified.
I'm still ticked off at the lawsuit - joined by the LP of Washington state - that successfully changed our primary system to "top two" while eliminating the LP candidates from ballot access forever more. With friends like that, who needs enemies? Top five would be great, especially if it's ranked choice. Ideally, we would have at-large election of state legislators and Congress representatives to achieve proportional representation and permanently deleting the two party system.
"Abolishing party-specific primary elections makes a lot of sense, and might help steer American democracy back towards the center."
OK, but what's the upside?
Something especially bad about the center? Just in the USA now, or everywhere at all times in principle?
"The center" right now is listing to port, close to capsizing; we need to move quite a bit to the right.
It’s a mistake to assume the centrist position is better than the fringes; in fact, sometimes the opposite fringes are both better than the center.
The prime example right now is war. “Extremists” on both the left and right opposed Iraq, Libya, and the extended stay in Afghanistan. All three wars were driven by centrists.
And once a war has started, the centrist position is often the poorest one. Cutting and running, or using appalling levels of force to end it quickly, were both practically and morally superior to the centrist position of decades of low-grade bombing and "presence" that stops short of true occupation.
Immigration – the centrist position is to indefinitely maintain a half-ass, incoherent, inhumane system out of fear of making it incrementally more inhumane. Either an open border or an enforced closed one would be superior.
Health care – the centrist position is the worst of both worlds, high prices due to regulated third party payments, basically all the profits but with none of the market discipline.
If you want a general rule, look at any issue where the Green party and the Libertarian party agree even a little. The centrist position is worse.
Yes, screw centrism and especially the variety labeled “bipartisan”.
Reason staff seem to have a self image of libertarianism being in the center, when most everyone else see it as the fringe.
"Most November voters are wasting their time, which is not only profoundly undemocratic and unrepresentative, it's the reason we can't solve our complex problems and make necessary trade-offs."
Yet another example that Boehm isn't a libertarian in any sense of the word. The people who want RCV believe that problems have not been solved because elections are dysfunctional. In other words, the problems can only be solved by government.
Disagree. That was a quotation from an outside source to illustrate that not just libertarians think that the election system is dysfunctional in terms of representative democracy.
Until a few years ago, my state had open primaries: Voters could choose to use either the Democrat or the Republican primary ballot (only one, of course).
I live in a very red state, and lots of Democrats chose to vote using the Republican primary ballot, so the primary effectively became the first pass of a two pass voting system. The open primary system seemed to prevent most right-wing nut jobs from winning the primary.
now the Dems try to help the right wing nut jobs win in the primaries, because they think they will be easier to beat in the general
The point is that the outcome for any one party is not the point of elections in a representative democracy. If the goal is to have as many people as possible represented by the representative of their choice, then the two party system denies that to as many as 49% of the people.
Why have a primary to knock down the choices to 4 or 5 if you’re going to then have an instant-runoff election among those finalists? Why not just have a single IRV/RCV election and be done with it? Anything positive that can be said of the “jungle” primary to select 2, 4, or 5 finalists can be said of IRV itself.
The theory - not that I agree with it - is that when there are 30 candidates, voters are assigning rankings to many names they know literally nothing about, but when it's four they are going to study up about all four and make an informed ranking.
The mistake here is politically engaged people projecting onto the average voter. The kind of person that reads political blogs might have a "study limit" of up six or eight candidates, and thinks four or five is a good number. But the average voter? I'm guessing their "study limit" averages somewhere around one.
Yeah, California went to "Top 2" primaries several years ago. It destroyed the LP and the Green Party and the Taxpayers/Constitution Party, as intended.
No we get two Democrats to choose between in some of the general election November races.
Ranked-choice voting - yes. A good idea whose time has come. Yes, they are a little confusing but nothing that your 8th grade civics teacher couldn't explain.
Jungle primaries ? They haven't seemed to reduce the partisanship of California elections. If anything, they are alleged to have made the problem worse in jurisdictions that have tried them.
Yeah, our non-partisan / jungle primaries in the City of St. Louis ended up with the two most progressive Democrat candidates running against each other for both the Mayor and then again for the President of the Board of Aldermen, so I'm not convinced that it is working as advertised, to increase choices and representation.
I do think it's working as intended.
Typically, in the past, voters would at least have a choice between a more moderate Democrat and a more liberal one, at some point in the process. And then if they really hated the person who won the primary, they could still vote for whichever South City patsy the Republicans ran up there, as a protest.
"might help steer American democracy back towards the center."
I don't understand the obsession with the political "center" or "centrists." Especially from folks who claim to be libertarians. Political centrists and their "bipartisanship" brought us endless war, a weak currency, the drug war, an expanded surveillance state, etc. If you're praising a system that helps establishment Republicans and "moderate" Democrats, then you've lost all perspective.
Further, RCV isn't going to help third parties break up the duopoly. Your third parties need to build a bench of elected candidates at the local level, in the state legislature, etc., before they'll ever challenge the big two, even in an RCV system.
What, you think if the center had somehow been eliminated and only extremists ran things, we wouldn't have crappy public policies like wars, weak currencies, drug wars, etc.?
So, there's this claim that if we do elections right, candidates will be pushed toward the center if they want to win.
Let's say that's correct and you implement that system. Then you've got an unprincipled person who simply wants to win. What sort of policies will that person claim to favor?
The problem with politicians engineering their positions to maximize votes is that those positions are insincere.
Agreed, and RCV is only an improvement in those terms if connected to at-large elections of state legislators and Congress. The goal for our election system should be “proportional representation.” If the Democrats are 33% of the electorate, then Democrats should be about one-third of the representatives, with Republicans about 22% and Libertarians about 10%. Ranked choice, at large elections is a tool providing proportional representation and right now it’s the only available tool that has any chance of being implemented over the objections of the Demopublicans.
Primary elections are for party members to choose the candidate they prefer to represent them and their party. What happens in open primaries is that people of the incumbent will often vote on the other party's candidates, picking the weakest or worst of them. Sorry, it is just more electoral bushwa whose intent is to bamboozle the public into adopting an election scheme that is LEAST favorable to them.
Ultimately, does it matter? Government is still going to be run by people, regardless of how they're chosen.
Yes ... yes it does matter. Next question.
At least Twit Boehm is being honest. He favors "centrism" over liberty.
Fuck that noise.
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California has had open primaries for years. The result is a single-party government that caters to its base and ignores or demonizes opposing views.
Open primaries favor candidates that appeal to the state's most strident plurality. Minority party candidates are typically shut out of the general election altogether.
As a matter of principle, it makes little sense for state governments to pay for primary elections, which are nothing more than internal processes for parties to choose their nominees.
Uh, yeah. That's kind of the point. The nominee is supposed to represent their party. Why the fuck do I want my opponents voting on who's going to represent my party?