Can the Iran Protests Do Better Than Uprisings of the Past?
This time could really be different.

Protests resulting from the death of a young woman, almost certainly at the hands of police, have Iranian reformers hopeful that this time, the Islamic regime will fall and clear the way for something better.
Anybody with memories of the Arab Spring of 2011 and the limited gains—and often, outright chaos—that resulted knows to keep expectations in check. Still, there are reasons for hope in the current protests, and Iran's history of greater cultural breathing room before the Islamic regime took power raises the possibility that something better could result.
"Current protests in Iran point to prospects for new revolution," the National Council of Resistance of Iran, the France- and Albania-based main opposition group to the Islamic regime, optimistically announced just days after the latest round of protests broke out in mid-September. "The profound injustice of Mahsa Amini's death may have been all that was needed to spark another uprising in pursuit of regime change."
Protests have continued and spread since then, even as the body count rises. The arrest of 22-year-old Amini for failing to wear a hijab, and her subsequent death almost certainly at the hands of the morality police, really does seem to have tapped a deep well of discontent that starts with the treatment of women and encompasses the full range of the regime's illiberalism and brutality.
"The current protests in Iran sound the death knell of the Islamic Republic," Iranian-American journalist and activist Masih Alinejad insisted this week in Foreign Affairs. "With women leading the way, Iran's transformation from theocracy to a democracy will be remarkable."
Well, that's hopefully true. But experience tells us that even the most passionate and widespread protests aren't guaranteed to end well. In 2011, Mohamed Bouazizi, a Tunisian street vendor, killed himself in response to repeated harassment by police. Protests against corruption and authoritarianism erupted and spread to other countries in a phenomenon dubbed "the Arab Spring." Regimes toppled, but not always for the better, and some places just descended into violence.
"Ten years after the mass popular uprising known as the Arab Spring began in January of 2011, optimism can be hard to find," the Harvard Gazette concluded in a 2021 piece drawing on the university's scholars and analysts. "Despite the participation of thousands of people—particularly young people—in protests against the autocratic rulers of Middle Eastern countries, little seems to have changed."
In the wake of the 1979 revolution that replaced the autocratic shah with a theocratic Islamic regime, Iran has also experienced waves of protest that achieved little. As recently as the winter of 2019-2020, thousands of people took to the streets in demonstrations that frightened the government without ending its control. But those protests were broader than the ones that came before, and the latest wave may achieve critical mass, having spread to industrial workers with separate but related concerns.
"Protests have spread widely and morphed from calls to abolish mandatory veiling to the ouster of the Islamic Republic leadership," The Wall Street Journal reported last week. Whatever is happening is picking up momentum that goes far beyond the death that set it off.
"Having studied history, having lived through the 1979 revolution, this time feels different," comments Iranian-American scholar Reza Aslan. "There is a fearlessness that we are seeing on the streets, particularly by young women, by teenage women, who simply have had enough."
Women have particular reason to seek change in Iran, since their own mothers and grandmothers tell them of times when things were better, and they had more liberty to do as they pleased.
"Before the revolution, Iranian women had some of the most liberal laws in the Middle East," Kamin Mohammadi wrote in The Guardian of life before the 1979 Islamist revolution. "They could wear what they liked, they could work and even rise to be judges, they had equal rights to divorce and the custody of children, and they had been voting since 1963."
That's not to say that women were treated entirely equally to men, but their circumstances were improving before the revolution reversed many of their gains. Under the current regime, "married women can't even leave the country without their husband's permission," notes Human Rights Watch in its assessment of the sad status on women in the country. That said, the organization adds, "across the board, Iran's human rights situation is dire. It's hard to say what tops the list of abuses, but there are severe restrictions on free speech in Iran."
The old monarchy was deeply authoritarian, but it actually offered expanding breathing room for those who didn't challenge its power.
"The Shah's crucial decade from 1965 to 1975 was also critical for the regime's cultural politics. Iran in this period was a discordant combination of cultural freedoms and political despotism—of increasing censorship against the opposition but increasing freedoms for everyone else," Abbas Milani wrote in his 2012 book, The Shah. "It is far from hyperbole to claim that during the sixties and seventies, Iran was one of the most liberal societies in the Muslim world in terms of cultural and religious tolerance, and in the state's aversion to interfere in the private lives of its citizens—so long as they did not politically oppose the Shah."
Ultimately, the Iranian people ejected the Shah in a popular uprising in 1979. But in doing so, they replaced the authoritarian monarchy with a totalitarian Islamist regime that reaches into all areas of life. From enjoying a relative degree of cultural freedom, they transitioned to a government capable of employing morality police that arrest and kill people for how they dress.
With the history of the 1979 revolution in mind, and of the later Arab Spring, the questions now are: First, will the protests currently engulfing Iran result in change; and, second, will that change result in increased liberty, or will it make things worse? Observers have every reason to be both wary and hopeful.
The death of Mahsa Amini has unleashed a vast amount of discontent in Iran. We don't know where that unleashed rage will take that country. But, despite the danger of the moment, the Iranian people have an opportunity to reclaim what freedom they once had, and to stake out much more.
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the National Council of Resistance of Iran
Let me guess, some guy named "Curveball" is working for them and providing this "intelligence".
That’s fucking MKO, People’s Mojahadin. They are an Islamic-Marxist cult!! They’re also fucking glory hogs who have appropriated titles like “THE main Iranian opposition “ or, @THE Iranian Resistance” unto themselves
Trust me on this: The overwhelming majority of anti-regime Iranians HATE MKO too!! For fuck’s sake, Reason!!
(I am a fan of Masih Alinejad, though. I’ve even briefly worked with her online in the past.)
Good luck.
Ultimately, the Iranian people ejected the Shah in a popular uprising in 1979. But in doing so, they replaced the authoritarian monarchy with a totalitarian Islamist regime that reaches into all areas of life. From enjoying a relative degree of cultural freedom, they transitioned to a government capable of employing morality police that arrest and kill people for how they dress.
Good thing Carter refused to help the Shah and ushered in the Ayatollahs. Things have been much better in Iran since then. Just as getting rid of Saddam Hussein in Iraq and Moammar Khaddafi in Libya and (soon) Bashar al Assad in Syria made things so much better in these places. And now that Biden has pissed off the Saudis, we might see some regime change there. What a glorious time to be alive!
The revolution was not the US fault. The mullahs were fighting their culture war and the Shah had westernized way too fast.
I lived in Tehran as a kid in the late 60's when women wore miniskirts in North Tehran and chadors in South Tehran. Maybe now , a couple generations later, the dynamics will be different
This crap wouldn't be happening if the Shah had offed Khomeini instead of exiling him.
That's certainly possible.
Do better, Iranians!
Some Persians, to emphasize their outrage, will be outraged at mentioning the Arab Spring in an article about Iran. But they do have in common their religion, sort of, ignoring the Sunni/Shiite schism.
So a semi-serious question. How different are the Iran and Arab cultures, aside from language and Muslim sect, as compared to the difference between, say, Saudis and Egyptians and Tunisians and Malaysians?
Totally different. Persians are Indo-Aryan, Arabs are Semitic. Persians are one of the oldest civilization and Arabs are still camel herders
Great, now try answering the actual question.
It's true. Most Iranians in their cups regard Islam as an alien imposition of the Arabs.
Much different. We can start with the Arabs being a Semitic people and the Iranians being of Aryan origin (in the same sense Indians are—I am NOT talking about Hitler’s Nordic distortions of that tetm)
Also, Iranians have an ancient religion predating Islam—Zoroastrianism. It’s still alive and very respected even by most Muslims in Iran. The fire-jumping festival before Nowruz (Persian New Year) is from that ancient heritage. IK, I’m gonna stop there because MAN have you touched on a RHAT’A LONG STORY question!! And yes indeed, as a word to the wise, NEVER…EVER call a Persian an Arab! 🙂
The arrest of 22-year-old Amini for failing to wear a hijab
Amini was wearing a hijab, but the morality police say she was wearing it incorrectly.
Yeah, too much hair showing.
I hope the current protestors topple the Iranian regime.
And replace it with a government that respects the Individual Right to Life, Liberty, Property, and The Pursuit Of Happiness On Earth. (Crucial detail. Never leave a power vacuum, as previously happened when overthrowing The Shah.)
When comparing the “deeply authoritarian” regime of the Shah with the murderous theocracy of Iran that replaced it, it’s always wise to remember that the challenges to the monarchy at the time were communists sponsored by the Kremlin. It has become routine to maintain that fighting left wing conspiracies with right wing dictatorships is a failed policy, but even in retrospect it’s hard to see what alternatives were available to third world countries during the “domino theory” era if the profound liberalization of society in other ways by the “authoritarian” Shah ended up failing.
And when Khomeini took over, those communists went to prison or the firing squad. Useful idiots.
It was a very illiberal time among the restless youth in the 1979s when they were so radicalized that, as author Azar Nafisi recalls, @The worst thing you could call someone was ‘liberal’” (in the traditional—CLASSICAL non leftist sense). That, mercifully had changed with Iranian youth. Many of them are decidedly open to western liberal traditions.
Iran's history of greater cultural breathing room before the Islamic regime took power raises the possibility that something better could result.
Yes. Unlike in some other Islamic states, Iran has older people who remember what it's like to not live under religious tyrants. That could make a difference.
Those older people are likely the students who participated in the popular 1979 revolution.
But their children are the ones rebelling
I understand. But the comment I was responding to was indicating (at least to me) that regime change could be bolstered by the fact that there "are older people who remember what it's like to NOT live under religious tyrants'"
Now, I admit I'm making assumptions about what Mx Depner was implying, but that suggests that could be helpful with the 'cultural breathing room'. I'm merely pointing out that the student revolutionaries of 1979 didn't just go away, they're now the old people who "remember what it was like to NOT live under religious tyrants".
Shorter, when one might meet someone who's in their 70s in Tehran and you said to them, "Man, remember when Tehran was super-hip, liberal and awesome in 1977?" that old person you're talking to might say, "Yes, I do, and I helped capture the hostages from the US Embassy and throw out the imperialist puppets. And your Hijab isn't on straight."
As I’ve written above, the Iranian youth of today really do largely reject the anti western illiberal ideologies their parents espoused during their pre-revolutionary youths.
Can anyone justify the Obama/Biden appeasement of this regime?
Anything that’s bad for America is what Biden will do.
Something like "we have to appease them because they have nukes"?
I think the only chance the Iranians have is if some political group were to take on liberalization of religious laws as a means to secure power. That of course doesn't mean democracy but getting some relief in exchange for the group getting more power. I think this is what you have in Saudi Arabia where MBS liberalized in his bid to consolidate power.
I am no expert on Iran, but I cannot believe that there isn't some internal force or political party that wants a kinder-gentler Islamic theocracy that hasn't been bullied by the regime into obscurity or the margins.
There is no "kinder, gentler" way of ruling in the name of God, and certainly not in the name of the Abrahamic God that Muslims call Allah.
Their is. Despite the totalitarian repression of the regime Iranian civil society boasts a very impressive intellectual class which has produced a cultural phenomenon very similar to the Soviet dissidents if the 1960s/70s/80s. And like their Soviet/Russian brethren, they are cruelly persecuted. ALL the mist famous among them who were not in Prison before have been rounded up since September. The situation on that front us very bleak and, frankly, terrifying for some men and women I’ve come to deeply admire.
DISCLAIMER: I have an obvious bias as, when I was a teenager in the 1980s, all my heroes were political prisoners under the Soviet regime.
The Islamic theocracy took over Iran because Iranian leftists thought they could control them.
They were wrong.
And they are still wrong.
The only revolution that will help Iran is one from the right, and Islam is very resistant to the individualism that is the basis for the right.
Iranian youth also contain a VERY strong secular strain you won’t find in any other Middle Eastern Muslim country. That’s not surprising. All those countries have suffered vicious tyrannies but only Iranians (several generations of youths now) have suffered under an AVOWEDLY Muslim theocracy
Iran in this period was a discordant combination of cultural freedoms and political despotism—of increasing censorship against the opposition but increasing freedoms for everyone else," Abbas Milani wrote in his 2012 book, The Shah. "It is far from hyperbole to claim that during the sixties and seventies, Iran was one of the most liberal societies in the Muslim world in terms of cultural and religious tolerance, and in the state's aversion to interfere in the private lives of its citizens—so long as they did not politically oppose the Shah."
That's a good way to be. If you have freedom, then if you oppose the regime you must be up to no good.
"Political liberty" must mean the freedom to end freedom. It should not be conflated with freedom in any other respect. It's only about the freedom to seize the reins. The freedom to control other people's lives, not your own.
"Edit" button has stopped working for me. I just wanted to put the quote in blockquote.
When do we all have to put Iranian flags in our social media profiles?
Never. Our regime is friendly with their regime, so the state media is downplaying this story.
You're supposed to post the old flag of Iran with the lion in the middle, not the flag of the current regime.
As soon as the Russians invade.
You can place any flag you want up your ass as long as it's pole first, Dugin Hooligan Putineer!
Never forget, anyone, that Putin and the Ayatollahs are allies and that Putin and Islamofascists are allies as well:
What Happened In Europe This Week?
https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/10/21/what-happened-in-europe-this-week
Iran supplying drones to Russia
More vicious Russian attacks against Ukrainian cities were partly carried out by low-flying Iranian-made drones – something that Russia and Iran vigorously deny.
But the EU and the US both said they had evidence that Tehran supplied the low-cost drones that explode on impact and are blamed for the death of many civilians as well as the destruction of energy infrastructure, according to NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg.
Also, Putin actually considers insulting The Prophet Mohammed as "a violation of religious freedom"(?) and a hurting of the feelz of the Muz:
Vladimir Putin on Prophet Muhammad (Peanut Butter Und Herring)
https://youtu.be/DZxAcTyo78s
Right. Despots fight to the death, because they know what will happen to them if they lose.
Yep, and as long as the people aren't armed, they have little chance.
Once again reinforcing the importance of the Second Amendment...
Not necessarily. For instance we might hustle the Ayatollah off to Cairo where he can live in exile.
Reality-Level Based, Bitch!
Sorry if it's too much to take. Your Safe Space is next to The Potemkin Village and The Worker's Paradise Utopia.
^ This, VERY much!!!
Many Iranians despise Putin for supporting Khamenei’s regime. Back during the protests in the summer of 2009, one regime mullah was trying to lead a group of university students to chant @Marg bar Amrika!” (Death to America, the regime’s fav since 1979) and the students kept chanting in reply: “Marg bar Russia!” (Death to Russia). At first the mullah chided them “NO! Our enemies are America, England and Israel!” But they just kept chanting @l”Marg bar Russiya!” Finally, he pleaded with them: “Look can’t you at least say Marg bar Russiya AND Marg bar Amrika??” The students promptly replied: MARG BAR RUSSIYA!!!”
And young Iranians are WAY more pissed off now than during the mass protests/bloody crackdowns of 1999, 2009,2011, 2018 and the extremely bloody events of November 2019. It’s also important to remember that Iran’s population is heavily skewed toward younger adults— heavily URBAN ones at that! These are NOT pro-Khomenist ideology demographics. (They’re also VERY fed up with the regime’s canned anti-American jargon.)
Flag posting has to be Pole first?? Sorry, I’m gonna have to fact-Czech you on that!
I hope you're reading the moods correctly.
That's the only way Kim is gonna get out of N Korea in one piece.