Kiwi Farms Is Back
The return of the trollish forum demonstrates the futility of bans on bad speech.

It's been a little over a month since the internet services company Cloudflare terminated its relationship with Kiwi Farms, a web forum accused of fomenting harassment campaigns. But today, Kiwi Farms seems to be back and doing just fine.
After Cloudflare canceled Kiwi Farms' domain registration and DDoS mitigation services on September 3, the forum was temporarily inaccessible via its main URL (kiwifarms.net), though it could still be accessed on alternate domains during that period. (If you're curious about all the technical twists and turns, see this thread.) But by September 15, the main Kiwi Farms domain was back up. And the forum now seems to be operating normally.
The situation showcases once again how campaigns to rid the internet of supposed "hate speech"—or any particular type of speech—are doomed.
From pirated literature and academic papers to sex worker ads, MAGA organizing, or fringe forums, where's there's a will—and a pluralistic, global internet—there's a way.
This is undoubtedly a good thing. No group has ever gotten less radicalized by being driven underground, and no economic sector has ever gotten safer by being driven into a black market.
If you're worried that adult advertising platforms, fringe-right forums, etc. are harboring actual criminal actors, it's better for these sites to be accessible and hosted in the U.S. This way people can keep tabs on them, and platform operators are subject to subpoenas and other law enforcement requests. And if you're worried that certain platforms are hotbeds of hate or disinformation, it's better that those who would counter them can actually see what's being said. It's hard to challenge information or ideas that are exchanged more privately.
Those are the utilitarian reasons why the campaign to drive "dangerous" speech off the internet is misguided. Of course, there's also a more ideological or symbolic component.
In a liberal, pluralistic society, trying to deny entire groups of people the right to speak or associate is not great.
Private companies like Cloudflare are certainly within their rights to terminate services to platforms they deem dangerous or offensive. And they have reasonable incentives for doing so, given the drive to hold all sorts of internet intermediaries legally and professionally liable for third-party content. But the now popular online pastime of pressuring companies into these decisions is bad from both a culture-of-free-speech standpoint and a slippery slope standpoint. As Cloudflare itself pointed out in an August 31 blog post, the company's private decisions to terminate services to 8chan and the Daily Stormer were followed by "a dramatic increase in authoritarian regimes attempting to have us terminate security services for human rights organizations — often citing the language from our own justification back to us."
We already have ways of dealing with the relatively small amount of actually illegal online content without banning whole web forums or trafficking in guilt by association.
And the speedy return of Kiwi Farms demonstrates that the latter is not just illiberal but also futile.
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I still do not see what speech services like Cloudflare have. They provide a security service. They do not speak at all. Unless something is clearly illegal --- i.e an actual conviction for it --- they should have nothing to say one way or the other.
No one's coming after Cloudflare. In fact they got praised by all the politicos for abrogating a service agreement. The beef is with Kiwi Farms because some users of that social media site post things the politicos don't like.
Frankly, Cloudflare can dump whoever they want. They're a private company and NOT a public utility. But this story is not about that, it's about how cracking down on unwanted speech (soshulists, fashists, sexy time strippers, etc) is pretty much pointless. Kiwi Farms just found another service provider. And authoritiarian regimes got emboldened to crack down on good speech. And sexy stuff went back to the alleys where it wouldn't be seen by couch fainting politico wives.
No one’s coming after Cloudflare
...as long as Cloudflare does what its told.
Yeah. "No one's coming after Cloudflare" is a pretty incredulous take after the near literal 'on screen', "We won't remove any content or refuse service to any company that honors our contracts and isn't subject to a warran- *bloop*...[technical difficulties]...*bloop* Sorry, Kiwi Farms is out. That is all."
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So just ignoring how the immediate termination agreement caused actual harm to the company they had a contract with? Same thing happened to Babylon Bee with their mail server contract. Same with Parlor.
You dont see how immediate interruptions of a contract causes harm?
God youre an idiot brandy.
A month of all revenue shut down? No harm no foul. It’s almost like EMB and Brandyshit are economically illiterate.
Hey, if it’s good enough to flatten the curve…
No they are not economically illiterate, they are evil.
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"But this story is not about that, it’s about how cracking down on unwanted speech (soshulists, fashists, sexy time strippers, etc) is pretty much pointless."
Parler was decimated for, literally, no reason after 1/6. It is hardly pointless for the people that want them silenced.
"Kiwi Farms just found another service provider."
Are the costs to them similar?
Private entities should not have "free speech" to fall back on when there is literally zero speech on those companies behalf.
Kiwi Farms just found another service provider.
And got canceled from that. Then they found another, and will probably be canceled from that. Then the internet Archive removed its content... as I say below, imagine we hated Nazis so much, we closed the Holocaust museum.
No one’s coming after Cloudflare.
This is demonstrably untrue. It was right after Keffals started organizing a protest in front of Cloudflare offices during their next Board of Director's meeting that Cloudflare abruptly reversed themselves, just as Mad.Casual notes.
And I predicted THAT day that Cloudflare would be shut down right after Cloudflare announced they wouldn't shut KiwiFarms down.
I'm not right about much, but ngl, I was deadass bussin on that one, on god, fr fr.
Totes.
It's also really funny/eerie in relation to the fearthefloof (sp?) takedown *and* S230. Keffals was known to the police and known publicly as both an activist and a former candidate. Her freaking neighbor could've SWATted her for all anyone knew but, within days of the SWATting, we're holding the platform's platform responsible for what was done off the platform.
"Kiwi Farms just found another service provider."
Seems like the same rationale would work just fine for wedding cakes -- MORE than just fine since there are so many cake providers.
That's different because, uh, fuck you, that's why!
The First Amendment guarantees freedom of association, not just freedom of speech. Cloudflare, like any private business, should arguably have the same freedom to choose who they associate with as you do personally.
To clarify, it's Kiwi Farms that has the free speech argument. The article is about balancing that against Cloudflare's right to association. But more than that, it's about the broader principle that prohibition doesn't work. If you think Kiwi Farms is stupid and evil, driving them underground does not make them less so. You have to do the hard work of addressing the issues in the open, the hard work of identifying and fixing the underlying problems that lead to the thing you want to simply (but unsuccessfully) prohibit.
From the Guardian:
‘It’s not that hard’: Does kicking Kiwi Farms off the internet prove tech firms can act against hate speech?The extent to which private companies should be held responsible for online content is a global issue yet to be resolved
Remember, section 230 doesn’t apply outside of our social construct. So if we can chase KIWI farms out of the US, we can chase them out of section 230 protections. The good news is, we can even chase them out of Section 231 protections! The horror!
By the way, from the Guardian article... read how the Guardian characterizes this:
I like how the Guardian basically describes the Eye of Sauron as if it's a good thing.
I like how the Guardian
basically describesupdates the Eye of Sauronas if it’s a good thingfor the modern era.FIFY.
It's too bad Reason doesn't allow blink-text.
Yeah, no problem violating your contracts that leftists won't endorse as long as the violent words can be blamed.
And the freely choose to host pro terrorist websites. So they should be treated as terrorists
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"We had to kill free speech in order to say free speech!"
Translation: We had to be authoritarian in order to fight authoritarians!
Back-translation: Freedom is Slavery! This is exactly what The Kleptocracy, a.k.a. The Mainstream, a.k.a. Left&Right, a.k.a. Both Sides of the aisle, a.k.a. Both Parties insist that YOU, recite, parrot and believe--provided you take increasing the initiation of force for granted as an unquestionable given of settled science.
A couple more a.k.a.s and you got yourself a rapper title Hank.
MAGA organizing!!!!!
It is just like fomenting Terrorism, right?
No TDS here or anything. Not at all.
ICANN loookup:
Name: KIWIFARMS.NET Registry Domain ID: 1999477806_DOMAIN_NET-VRSN Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited Nameservers: NS1.KIWIFARMS.NET
NS2.KIWIFARMS.NET
Google EPIK Holings:
Epik Company epik.com Epik is a right-wing American domain registrar and web hosting company known for providing services to websites that host far-right, neo-Nazi, and other extremist materials. Wikipedia CEO: Rob Monster (2009–) Headquarters: Sammamish, Washington, U.S Founder: Rob Monster Founded: 2009 Subsidiaries: BitMitigate, Kobalt B.V., Terrahost AS
Dates Registry Expiration: 2024-02-01 21:58:46 UTC Updated: 2022-09-26 14:53:01 UTC Created: 2016-02-01 21:58:46 UTC Contact Information Registrant: Name: Privacy Administrator Organization: Anonymize, Inc. Email: kiwifarms.net-1h7rhe7x0qvjt@anonymize.com Mailing Address: 1100 Bellevue Way NE, Ste 8A-601, Bellevue, WA, 98004, US
Well, this should be pretty easy.
Just in case any of you are following the Zeitgeist, "Keffals" is the one that got Rikieta Law banned from youtube. It think it might be time to deal with this problem.
Reason is a transphobic hate forum.
OK, now from here on out I can honestly say "ENB, a writer for Reason, which has been described as a 'transphobic hate forum'..." and that statement will be 100% true.
Keffals is an "anti-free speech activist". That statement is True.
That's just obvious on its face. No rhetorical trickery needed.
Not that I know anything about "keffals" other than what you've written here. But if it's someone constantly trying to get people with opposing views banned from the public forum, that's kind of the definition of anti free speech.
Some blogger called Destiny did a pretty good write-up of the whole situation that is surprisingly balanced and includes receipts for just how deranged keffals has been acting through this whole thing.
Keffals has now failed to take down KF as well as Rekieta (because YouTube completely nuking a lawyer's account without listing cause was probably ground for significant legal action, especially if Rekieta is based in Texas), and the more he gets the spotlight put on him, the more deranged he acts and the more followers he loses. Keep in mind, he raised 100 Gs after KFs supposedly swatted him, which is what kicked all this off to begin with, but Destiny explained how there was no actual proof anyone from the forum was the one who did it. Furthermore, all the threats coming out of the forum were from accounts that had been largely dormant and were immediately banned after they did so.
I’ve also heard Reason is a bunch of racists, so you can add that.
A transphobic hive of racists and fascism.
“ENB, a writer for Reason, which has been described as a ‘A transphobic hive of racists and fascism’…”
I like it, let’s go to print.
Maybe Reason will realize the point isn't to make it go-away go-away... but to diminish your voice and make you scurry for the corners.
From free markets to market collusion. Reason doesn't even hide it.
BUT...MUH PRIVATE PLATFORMZ
The process is the punishment.
And other internet services which are supposed to be content neutral are erasing the history of KIWI farms:
Now, imagine for a minute that we hated the Nazis so much that we erased any evidence of their crimes...
Apparently, these people think if they had there would be no neo-nazis.
The irony of all this fallout is that Kiwifarms seems to be operating far better now than before Cloudflare dropped them.
What's notable here is that, just like what happened with Kyle Rittenhouse, the actual aggressors in both cases (Gage Grosskreutz and keffals) ended up getting far more media sympathy than they really deserved. There was a notable lack of journalistic investigation in to both of these two that left outsiders to fill in the gaps on their shady backgrounds and show that they were nearly as credible as the media was trying to portray.
Grosskreutz is trying to change his name now, while keffals ended up backing away from that bathtub estrogen recipe guide he was sponsoring for Bobposting, and is increasingly making himself a target for people across the internet spectrum because he's so relentlessly addicted to imposing himself on everyone.
Indeed and Breitbart had posted a bit more about that so-called activist and there's another article about it as well. https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2022/09/06/cloudflare-folds-to-pressure-blacklists-drama-site-kiwi-farms/
https://destinygg.substack.com/p/keffals-a-case-study-on-internet
Why no links to the sex worker ads?
They got Demonetized.
Thanks ENB for finding a website eager to welcome all the Trumpanzees, Christianofascisti, Nationalsocialists, Bushistas, Bidenistas, SwastiKinder, coprophages and Reason-smearing graffiti sprayers I've banned. I was unable to find the main site with the enviable avatar, but anyone Marjorie Teeth Greene despises can't possibly be all bad. I found clueless Bloggermouths wishing them dead in other languages, and from the style figured those must be the Secret Police.
Ban the user
Ban the platform
Ban the infrastructure/backbone provider
Ban the payment processor
Seize the bank accounts.
You can ALWAYS find a pressure point and squeeze it.
Hang the DJ!!!
(Sorry, just felt like singing)
Searching for ?whut dis? turned up threads and nonsense reminiscent of phone modem era BBS kultur with graphics added. General impression is that the folks eager to lynch the Kiwi would go apesplit if National Lampoon were to make a comeback. On a lark I found nationallampoon.com and it looked like a bunker. The NLS linked to a CCCP missile dud stuck in someone's garage roof. Is this clairvoyant? Insider info? The Shape Of Things To Come?
Now talk about how Josh the owner of kiwifarms is banned from almost every single payment processor on the planet.
Private platforms, man. They can do anything they want in libertopia.
This is a rich headline, considering this dude is someone who literally chases people off the internet.
Anti-trans stalkers at Kiwi Farms are chasing one victim around the world. Their list of targets is growing. A trans streamer and a Republican congresswoman were targeted at their homes in the last month. Experts warn this is just the beginning.
Experts warn!
The more I read, the more fishy (phishy? cat-phishy?) this sounds:
So it seems not just possible, but highly likely, that Kiwi Farms is no more or less guilty than Uber and certainly less responsible for and capable of collecting and protecting Keffal's personal information. Moreover, despite being "on the run", Keffal continues to use Twitch and Uber and continues to have 'leaks' with regard to her location. Either way, regardless of whether Jackie Coakley, I mean Jussie Smollett, I mean Ronaiah Tuiasosopo/Naya Tuiasosopo, I mean Keffals pissed off someone who knows her personally or is involved or is totally the victim, it's pretty clear that Kiwi Farms is a red herring. A red herring that Keffals seems exceedingly more interested in beating like the corpse of a horse rather than actually finding out specifically who's actually SWATting/doxxing.
Weird how keffals story (and following behavior) is identical to Brianna Wu. Virtually the same story and the same behavior afterwards.
I call bullshit on its story.
THE CALL IS COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE!
I’ve had Stranger Calls…
Even if she was SWATted, I find it interesting that a straight, mainstream news source publishes that as proof of harassment.
Ok... so, NBC, you know who ELSE was SWATted, but might not have a worldview that completely aligns with your own like a Jenga tower before the game starts?
Are you saying SWATting *isn't* harassment? That seems like a bold take.
Proof of harassment (by a 4th, or further, party). Not evidence. The only thing it proves is that SWAT harssed her. Borrowing a meme:
1. SWAT Keffals
2. ????
3. Kiwi Farms
Moreover, despite being “on the run”, Keffal continues to use Twitch and Uber and continues to have ‘leaks’ with regard to her location.
Keffals showed up at Twitchcon in San Diego this week, so he's hardly on the run from anything right now.
That's great news actually. A hopeful sign that the hateful mobs have limits to what they can force done.