Are Ron DeSantis' Migrant Flights Legal?
Critics of the Martha’s Vineyard flights are raising a bevy of questions about the finances and alleged deception behind the scheme.

Last week, Republican Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis arranged two flights carrying nearly 50 migrants from San Antonio, Texas, to Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts.
Almost as soon as news broke about the flights, allegations began to fly: kidnapping, misuse of state funds, deception, and human trafficking. Officials in Texas and Massachusetts have already launched investigations into some of those angles. Political figures ranging from Florida Agriculture and Consumer Services Commissioner Nikki Fried to Democratic California Gov. Gavin Newsom have called for the Justice Department to investigate DeSantis' actions.
Yet a major question at the center of this uproar remains unanswered: Did the Martha's Vineyard flights violate any laws?
Two big legal questions are germane to the stunt: one relating to how migrants were induced to board flights and the other relating to using state funds. Legal experts, lawmakers, and the architects of the flights are now debating what was and wasn't legally permissible about the scheme.
DeSantis, for his part, has said the migrant flights were "clearly voluntary." Taryn Fenske, a spokesperson for DeSantis, shared with Axios a redacted consent form for the flight. That form mentions a "final destination of Massachusetts" and holds "the benefactor or its designated representatives harmless of all liability" incurred during the journey, which it says is meant to transport the signatory "to locations in sanctuary States."
Though much of the form is translated into Spanish, the mention of Massachusetts as the final destination is not. The only mention of Massachusetts in the Spanish portion of the redacted document is a handwritten abbreviation: "MA."
Three of the migrants flown to Martha's Vineyard filed a lawsuit against DeSantis yesterday, alleging that Florida officials "made false promises and false representations" that if they "were willing to board airplanes to other states, they would receive employment, housing, educational opportunities, and other like assistance upon their arrival." The lawsuit notes that a woman "gathered several dozen people…to sign a document in order to receive a $10 McDonald's gift card." Per the suit, the woman didn't explain what the consent form said. Migrants interviewed by NPR also explained that the same woman promised they would be flown to Boston and receive expedited work papers if they boarded the flights in San Antonio.
With this background in mind, some commentators have suggested the flight scheme may have run afoul of Texas law. Under title 5, chapter 20 of the Texas penal code, the crime of "unlawful restraint," or restricting someone's movement without consent, includes actions that involve "force, intimidation, or deception." An unlawful restraint offense is a misdemeanor, except when the victim is under 17 years old—then it's a state jail felony. At least some of the migrants DeSantis sent to Martha's Vineyard were children.
Legal experts surveyed by Politico suggested that federal criminal trafficking statutes weren't relevant unless migrants were transported against their will. If coercion was involved, the legality becomes much murkier. "If someone is told, 'Hey, get on the bus. We're going to Chicago because we have a job for you' and it's not true, that person has been victimized," said Steven Block, a Chicago lawyer and former assistant U.S. attorney who dealt with trafficking and corruption cases.
The matter of state funds is at least slightly easier to distill. Florida's 2021–2022 budget set aside $12,000,000 to implement "a program to facilitate the transport of unauthorized aliens from this state consistent with federal law." Funds that weren't spent in 2021–2022 rolled over to be used for the same purpose in 2022–2023. This is the pot through which DeSantis financed the Martha's Vineyard flights, and the governor says he'll spend "every penny" of it to "make sure that we're protecting the people of the state of Florida."
The 2022–2023 spending bill explicitly provides money for transporting migrants "from this state." That would seem to indicate an origin in Florida. But the Martha's Vineyard flights originated in San Antonio, which DeSantis acknowledges. Florida Democrats are now questioning whether this rendered the flights illegal. They are attempting to block funding for the relocation effort. A potential sticking point is that the flights were routed through Crestview, Florida, before reaching Martha's Vineyard, ostensibly to refuel.
Geography aside, the migrants' immigration status may also clash with the Florida budget language. State Sen. Aaron Bean (R–Jacksonville) stated in March that the relocation scheme wouldn't apply to people who had requested asylum in the U.S. after fleeing communist or socialist countries since "they are here lawfully." Further, the 2022–2023 budget specifies that the relocation scheme only applies to people who are "unlawfully present" in the country.
After crossing the U.S.-Mexico border, the migrants now suing DeSantis—all recent immigrants from Venezuela—turned themselves over to federal immigration officials, the lawsuit explains. Each has "active federal proceedings to adjudicate their immigration status," which authorizes them to stay in the United States unless their immigration court proceedings determine otherwise.
According to New York Times reporting, the migrants "were screened and released to face proceedings in the future." This is how the Biden administration has been processing nearly all Cubans and Venezuelans who cross the border since the U.S. "lacks the diplomatic relations with those countries that would be necessary to send them back." The migrants likely plan to claim asylum, during which they may stay in the United States. According to many reports, as well as the new lawsuit against DeSantis, the migrants are not here unlawfully.
Still, many pertinent details will only become clear when they're ironed out in court. The migrant flights could be lawful and immoral, misguided, hypocritical, expensive, and tarnish America's legacy as a nation of immigrants. At a minimum, it seems DeSantis has chosen to spend state resources on a legally dubious political stunt.
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Any less legal than the federal government's midnight migrant flights?
https://nypost.com/2022/04/15/biden-administration-resumes-migrant-flights-to-airport-outside-nyc/
Are illegal immigrants legal?
Are illegal sub-humans even HUMAN to begin with? What if they are illegal sub-human fartilized egg smells? What then? Sacred, or evil? (If your head explodes... I wasn't REALLY trying to make THAT happen!)
Still haven't killed yourself yet, Sqrlsy?
Still haven't grown a brain yet, Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrer?
Seriously. Mother’s Lament, a Canadian, is arguing with you about American immigration policy. Canada isn’t even in America!
She's not content to be merely hair-sniffed by Der BidenFuhrer. She lusts something AWFUL after getting Her Perfect Pussy grabbed by THE Perfect Pussy-Grabber in Chief, AKA, Der TrumpfenFuhrer!
We have to keep them blame Canadians outside our dang borders!
Holy shit balls! Ml is Canadian?! This changes everything!
This never works for you Mike. But you keep doing it.
"Canada isn’t even in America!"
WTF, that should be illegal!
I hate Canadians now.
"Mother’s Lament, a Canadian, is arguing with you about American immigration policy."
Actually I was encouraging Sqrlsy to kill himself, but keep on being wrong, White Mike.
Seeking asylum in the U.S. is legal. And that's what these people did.
They broke the law. That’s it.
They have to apply at a port of entry for asylum.
the LAW requires anyone seeking asylum to apply to the US Consulate in the FIRST country not their own where they are present. If they wind their way from Venezuela through Panama, Colombia, Costa Rica, wherever, the first country the land in not their own is the place from which they need to apply to the US for asylum. These guys had gone through NINE nations, and were in Mexico when they crossed into the US at Texas.
Which port of entry did they use? I'm sure you know, right?
Int'l law does not agree. You do not have the legal right to forum shop for asylum.
Guess who said this: “The tragedy in Venezuela is a result of a failed socialist experiment – a system that is hostile to human liberty and contrary to human nature. To the Venezuelan exile community here in Florida, we stand with you and with the people who are seeking freedom and a better future.”
Captain Kangaroo?
A person who was not putting out an invitation, merely a virtue signal.
And that person's name was ... Ron DeSantis!
It's legal only if you truthfully can state that you are subject to political persecution by your government, which none of these people are. They are economic migrants, nothing more.
Of course. Because concepts like 'due process' and 'innocent until proven guilty' don't apply to Venezuelans.
Due process doesn't mean what you think it means and 'innocent until.proven guilty' doesn't apply to an asylum application.
*They* have to show cause to be granted asylum, not the government needing to show why it should be denied.
Not to mention they passed through other potential asylum sates to get to the US. The concept of first safe state applies.
First safe state? So they need to keep moving until Canada.
Canada has a worse record than the US on both native peoples and "migrants."
Horse sh&t.
If you essentially perpetrate genocide then you don’t have a problem with disenfranchised native people. No worries about a bad record. Wtf do you know about canada?
Yup If they are suing here in the US for their "harms" then the US is not a "safe" place for them, so yes, hop on and head north to Canada. Ol' Justin TrueDough will be happy to take them in.More residents to control. And fleece.
They apply to shitlibs, though hopefully we can fix that.
Seeking asylum is something very specific. This isn't it.
To apply for "asylum" in the U.S. you have to do it through a Port of Entry in the U.S. crossing through the back of a truck or across the Rio IS NOT LEGAL and that is NOT SEEKING ASYLUM THAT IS BREAKING THE LAW. Read up on what IS AND IS NOT LEGAL ENTRY TO THE U.S. AND STOP SHOWING YOUR STUPIDITY!
Exactly. Is it me or is Reason finding the next punching bag?
Trump is going away, so let's get after the next target.
You can't 48 or 49 others to question on a daily basis? How about the Governor of NY? Nothing?
How about the Congresswoman from Michigan?
Painful reading these items.
That's what I came to ask. I'm surprised Sullum hasn't blamed Trump for migrant flights.
The idea of arguing over the legality of flying illegal immigrants around the country is bizarre. What next, arguing that Ukraine moving Russian POWs around Ukraine is illegal?
What next, arguing that speed-limit violators have NO rights NOT to be tortured to death... Is utterly totes legit?
"Illegal sub-humans are here to TAKE OUR JERBS... LIE to them ALL, and put their kids in cages NOW, dammit!!! Hurrrrrr Grrrr!!!"
You know that you can edit your posts now, Sqrlsy. Want to try changing it to a proper response... or something more on topic, or even less insane?
I swear even Hihn was less trollie.
Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrer, Supreme Demonic Director of Decay, Destruction, and Death, will now SPEAK! HARKKK silently and RESPECTFULLY, all ye lowly heathens, as She Directs Death, and announces WHICH few of us MIGHT deserve to live, and WHO all deserves to DIE-DIE-DIE!!!
https://reason.com/2022/01/25/did-these-three-officers-willfully-deprive-george-floyd-of-his-constitutional-rights/?comments=true#comment-9323626
“You should really join ᛋᛋqrlsy, ᛋᛋhrike. You two goosestepping fascists offing yourselves would definitely be a mitzvah.”
-Quote MammaryBahnFuhrer the "Expert Christian Theologian", AKA Mother’s Lament, with a head full of cement
So Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrer, Supreme Demonic Director of Decay, Destruction, and Death... WHEN are You going to STOP stealing the IDs of Your victims, and then posting kiddie porn in THEIR names, and then blaming THEM?
Inquiring minds want to KNOW, dammit!
I stand by that statement 100%, Sqrlsy. I can even point out places on the internet for you to learn the best method.
I don’t think even he wants to read his own drivel again.
Man, I hope a LIKE button is coming up soon.
Thanks!
Sqrlsy has the right to remain silent, but he doesn't have the ability.
Subhumans? I didn't realize they were liberals.
That different because Reason's reasons.
Probably. The DHHS flights are pursuant to the Flores settlement.
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/20/1106292758/rhetoric-around-ghost-flights-of-migrant-children-is-often-at-odds-with-the-fact
The government cannot keep unaccompanied minors in custody for longer than 72 hours. So the government has to find a home for them. It can be either with a relative, a sponsor, or a social services agency with whom the government has formed a contract. That is the legal responsibility of the federal government.
So if an unaccompanied minor is detained in Texas, and the child's relative is in New York, the government flies the child from Texas to New York.
It's not some secret plot. It's the government following the law.
And if you don't believe the librul NPR article, here is the actual law that creates this requirement.
https://www.congress.gov/110/plaws/publ457/PLAW-110publ457.pdf
Go to Section 235.
Which has what to do with the adults being moved around?
Fuck all, but that won’t stop Jeff.
you all realize how upset Nick is with this. That and the war on poor kids who are convinced they were born of the wrong biological sex and humanely should be given chemical or surgical sexual mutilation is top of mind with Reason today.
Back to MV....a land area about 70% the size of Gaza which houses 2M poor oppressed brown people...so honestly MV could take 100K or more of "every human is legal", "love is love", "hate is not welcome here" and "the science...." poor souls...
Right Reason? Right Nick?
Hey guess what, the morons on MV are a bunch of virtue-signaling hypocrites. You are exactly right. They could afford to sacrifice a lot more in the service of their stated cause, but they don't. That is because their 'concern' is very shallow. Congratulations.
Now, what is the best way to expose their hypocrisy? Is it to exploit and manipulate powerless migrants?
The powerless immigrants uncle joe has been flying around the country for over a year?
Eat shit.
https://reason.com/2022/09/21/are-ron-desantis-migrant-flights-legal/?comments=true#comment-9712984
Do you promise that isn’t a child porn link?
I don't see how the migrants have been "exploited and manipulated". They were flown at taxpayer's expense to a sanctuary state, where they will now presumably get the benefits that sanctuary states bestow upon illegal aliens. Their situation has greatly improved relative to being stuck in Texas or Florida.
Their situation has greatly improved relative to being stuck in Texas or Florida.
Is that so.
Well, then if you really believe that, let me offer you a (hypothetical) deal.
I will agree to buy you a one-way plane ticket to any destination on the planet that you wish. And it will not cost you one penny.
In return, I only ask one thing: that I be allowed to film you performing the most humiliating, degrading, disgusting, cruel, nasty, and vile acts of my choice. I will retain the full intellectual property rights to this film and I will post this film to the Internet identifying you with your correct legal name performing these acts. These acts will all be legal (barely), but they will absolutely rob you of your dignity. And you will sign a consent form granting me full legal permission to do all of this.
But, the plane trip will not cost you one penny!
So, do we have a deal?
LOL that chemtard radical deathfat actually thinks this is a perfect analogy.
Literally nothing in your comment addressed NOYB2's argument.
The point is that loss of human dignity has a cost. The point is that being manipulated and exploited has a cost. So, do you want to take me up on my deal? I'll fly you to any place you want. In exchange, just "sign this form". No monetary cost whatsoever! What's the big deal, right?
You are just a pearl clutching faggot. You don't care about these people. You have taken in a grand total of 0 'asylum seekers' and vote for then defend the assholes who made this problem.
Bad analogy. NONE of these travellers were forced or coerced to DO anything they did not want to do. In fact, they were deplaned at Martha's Vineyard and went wherever they wanted to go. No foul or filthy acts were requred of them. They were simply ble to deplane and then.. whatever they wanted.
The goons are after DeSantis now, Trump is forgotten, somewhat. Though he COULD have his seven six flown to texas, loaded up with a couple hundred migrants, and flown to... Venezuela. Or perhaps Cuba.
You’re just pissed DeSantis made your beloved democrats look bad. Just remember when he becomes president it’s your fault.
Since 2015 you’ve been crying about Trump, getting kicked off of other sites and acting like a petulant child. You got your wish with Trump. Now the guy taking his place can do what Trump does but is actually way more sophisticated than you idiots are used to.
You helped create his rise and I think it’s dawning on you that Trump was a piker compared to this guy. So enjoy eating DeSantis shit for the next decade you fat retarded slob. I look forward to your smooth brain hypotheticals and the angry spontaneous utterances about DeSantis that will be coming out of your fat stupid mouth.
Nope, Jeff, being the benevolent soul that he is, thinks they should be forced to stay in places that either don’t want or can’t afford to help them.
Yes.
Nice racism you got there. Assuming brown people cannot comprehend the situation.
This is so ignorant! Illegals invade a country, we ask them where they want to go, house, feed, clothe, and provide healthcare, then when they complain that they were 'mislead,' they can sue? They have more rights than Americans! I work to take care of my family and save for retirement. I can't save enough because the government keeps raising taxes to take care of other country's people instead of American. No wonder they hate the 'America first' Trump policies! They don't want an educated, free, and pro capitalist country.
What a country. Where else could you enter illegally and then sue the government for giving you free transport to a sanctuary?
You see that's different because it was being done by the Woke Authoritarian Left and they aren't held to the same standards as the rest of us. REASON isn't a Democrat controlled asset but they do work for establishment Republicans who in turn are owned by private special interest who want to see non-establishment controlled leaders like Trump and DeSantis removed from office.
Anything done by a right winger is illegal. Anything done by a left winger is legal. That's today's version of equal justice under the law. See also General Flynn, Hillary Clinton's computer, and Hunter Biden's computer.
This is just a media “circus” and a legal “joke”. If you put yourself out there as a holier than thou Sanctuary City, just at least try to live up to the virtual signaling..otherwise it’s just more hypocrisy from the Left.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvggevL_1OE
"If someone is told, 'Hey, get on the bus. We're going to Chicago because we have a job for you' and it's not true, that person has been victimized," said Steven Block, a Chicago lawyer and former assistant U.S. attorney who dealt with trafficking and corruption cases.
Then maybe he should sue his own mayor, Lightfoot, for "trafficking" them out to Burr Ridge.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/migrants-bussed-sanctuary-city-chicago-promptly-shipped-off-suburbs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Whoosh!
Ahh. The new favorite of leftists. Yell whataboutism when shown to be hypocrites. Good work shrike.
It makes sense though. The left thinks they are superior, and you are not allowed to do what they do.
Nice try, Shrike, but no cigar.
Still not shrike, cunt.
Sure shrike.
Yeah, you’re even dumber than him.
Shrike always cries "whataboutism" whenever the left's accused of hypocrisy, so pardon the confusion.
I hold no brief for what the real Shrike has done, but I note that the post I responded to was indeed whataboutism. You lot just can't help yourself.
Just accept the fact that you’re a damn hypocrite.
If you are really against the principle, then why not just agree with the statement instead of claiming whataboutism?
Claiming whataboutism is about shutting down someone who wants equal abilities.
Srg : shreek re-gurgatator
FOAD, motherfucker.
Where's that worthless POS Sevo? I can't win Right-wing Cunt Bingo with just you lot posting. We need Sevo to get involved. Could one of you revert to the Sevo sock, please? Much appreciated.
Such a sad fuck.
"Where’s that worthless POS Sevo?"
Right here, you pathetic pile of steaming lefty shit.
Tell us again how that dictator wannabe was your fave POTUS, shitbag.
Still stupid enough to be confused with turd, steaming pile of lefty shit.
Tell us again how that dictator wannabe was your fave POTUS, shitbag.
Victimized, eh? You note that he didn't say it's illegal, because it isn't. Corporations have been pulling that stunt on new hires as long as I can remember.
Sending someone to Chicago is victimizing them, job or no job.
word.
This is true.
Martha's Vineyard is one of the plushest, most luxurious places on the planet, but Chicago... that's just wrong.
Since Sept. 18, the migrants have been staying in temporary accommodations at Joint Base Cape Cod. Mazzarella said a few of them said they plan to stay with family and friends in New York. Three said they wouldn’t mind returning to Martha’s Vineyard because of “how beautiful” the island is. [Emphasis added]
Crazy how many articles we get discussing the legality of this particular flight, but none regarding the legality of Biden dropping them off in the middle of the night in rural areas.........
It's almost like Reason Editors are pretend libertarians and in reality, they're far left progressives.
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...
The progtards and lolberts have a cute pincer strategy going. The progtards implement laws to shove the unpalatable down your throat, and when you try to defend yourself, the lolberts jump up and call you a statist.
I think of them as the anarcho-tyranny coalition. The lolberts provide the anarchy, and the progtards provide the tyranny.
Bigoted, slack-jawed, obsolete, antisocial right-wing assholes are among my favorite culture war casualties. These worthless, faux libertarian stains on our society can't be replaced quickly enough.
Carry on, clingers. So far as your betters permit, and not a step beyond, though.
Check out Madame du Barry here. Don't worry, the clingers will definitely carry on.
Open wide, hicklib. You're about to get repressive tolerance shoved down your throat at 3000 fps.
They're libertarian marxists. Do whatever you want, man, the collective will support you.
That's because they are. REASON is not a Democrat controlled asset but it does work for and is owned by establishment Republican's who in turn are owned by private special interest who seek to remove any non-establishment controlled leaded from office at every level. REASON could "pose" as libertarian's pre-Trump era b/c there was always an establishment controlled leader in the White house. Once Trump won both sides called on all their assets to work towards removing him and so REASON along with many others self-exposed who they really are.
This is only going to get worse the closer we get to midterms.
Which -- the moving of migrants or the pushing of partisanship?
Cite?
Eat shit, sea lion.
White Mike's not even embarrassed.
Cite deez nuts bitch.
>>Almost as soon as news broke about the flights, allegations began to fly
and you haven't stopped with the ludicrosity.
Hi Fiona,
How many illegals do you house and pay for? Or do you just demand that other provide support for them, and put in no effort yourself?
It’s the (fake) libertarian way.
"Why won't the government dooooo something?....
NOOOOO! not defend the border.... Noooo, not shipping them to blue states that declared that they were sanctuaries either...
Like force Texas to take care of them or something."
How many illegals do you transport back over the border? Or do you just demand that others other provide support for that, and put in no effort yourself?
#Resistance legal experts on Twitter — who covered themselves in glory the past 5 years analyzing the cases against Trump — assured me DeSantis is guilty of KIDNAPPING and HUMAN TRAFFICKING.
After Biden's DOJ imprisons Trump for the documents scandal, they need to imprison DeSantis over #MarthasVineyardHumanTrafficking. Otherwise we might as well be living in some banana republic.
#LibertariansForImprisoningBidensEnemies
TLDR: no, it’s legal. And there’s no reason to even consider it unless you’re carrying water for some brand of leftist America-haters.
DeSantis should sue everyone who said it wasn’t legal for defamation, and use the settlement money for his 2024 campaign.
The chuckle I'd get from watching the Reasonistas fund DeSantis would be epic.
The consent form would seem to pretty conclusively settle the matter. And they're really arguing that it's not transporting people out of Florida if you stop anywhere along the way?
How gullible IS Sullum, anyway?
Are you clear on where the flight originated and where the stop along the way was?
DeSantis explained all of this you retard. Over 40% of illegals that enter Texas have Florida as their ultimate destination. Therefore it is in Florida’s best interest to work with Texas to protect their borders. I got a cite I can ram down your effeminate throat if you insist pussy.
If DeSantis flights and buses were illegal, then so were Biden's flights to Florida and a lot of other states and cites. Remember Florida is not a border state, water on three sides and Alabama and Georgia on the other. The illegals did not walk to Florida across Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama. They were flown there by the authority of Biden. So, what is the difference? There is none.
side note: Reason is moving from Windows 2.1 to Windows 95 which will give commenters the ability to edit comments. Ain't modern technology great!
The packages given to the illegal immigrants even told them who to contact for change of address for DHS as they go through the "asylum" process.
https://reason.com/2022/09/21/are-ron-desantis-migrant-flights-legal/?comments=true#comment-9712984
Oh wow, White Mike's quoting Chemjeff lying like it's an actual cite.
Where's the lie?
The funny part is, this is probably the first time most of these commenters here have even seriously pondered the idea that these 'ghost flights' in the dead of night may not be some surreptitious plot by Biden to spread "illegals" all over the country. Because it's not like right-wing media is going to inform them of what is *actually* happening. They are all on board with weaponizing migration as a part of the 2022 election campaign. They've done it in every election year since 2006.
Goddamn you are an evil cocksucking fuck.
Set yourself on fire you lying cocksucker.
OMG, I just looked at the comments on the blog post on the special master and the classified documents. The level of uninformed commentary is flabbergasting.
Projection by the guy who has claimed a half dozen times transgender surgery on minors is not being done.
You calling anyone uninformed is fucking rich.
"weaponizing migration"
*snicker*
Here is a clue.
"Camp of the Saints" is a fictional story.
Team Red deliberately demagoguing the issue of immigration every election year is a true story.
no one is "weaponizing migration". conservatives are against illegal immigration -- which is what brandon is inviting and allowing right now. we're against open borders -- you know, the policy that you support. there is a legal process for entering the country and anything else is criminal. these people pouring across the border are all criminals.
It’s fucking hilarious that when something happens that reveals the abject hypocrisy of the left, NOW all of a sudden illegal immigrants are being “weaponized”. Just ignore the last 40 years of this debate.
side note: Reason is moving from Windows 2.1 to Windows 95 which will give commenters the ability to edit comments. Ain’t modern technology great!
Notice that the time stamps have been removed from comments. This degrades the Reason experience .
I see timestamps. Abbreviated, like "4 hours ago" or "One day ago" And if I hover the mouse over one, the full timestamp is displayed like "September.21.2022 at 05:28 pm"
Was it legal for the national guard to kick them off the island? Why are we assuming they weren't coerced to leave by fraud?
I am confused why we are having an argument when both sides moved the group. If one side is suspect then both are.
Very good point
That’s like a preemptive “whadabout”. Good try!
Funny, none of the migrants are filing lawsuits against Massachusetts or Martha’s Vineyard.
That’s nothing like a preemptive “whadabout”, you illiterate fuck.
If you're dirt poor, just arrived in the country, and some ambulance chasing asshole lawyer asks you if you wanna be rich, how do you reckon that would work?
They weren't coerced to leave by fraud. The guns the national guard carry are very real
No fraud in that coercion, "get on the bus or else, darkie".
They weren't coerced to leave MV by fraud, because they were forced to move by NG troops.
The both sides argument kind of fails when one side uses inducements (maybe or maybe true inducements) and the other uses men with guns.
Yes.
Democrats seem really eager to pretend free plane tickets are human trafficking, as an excuse to throw their political opponents in jail rather than win at the ballot box.
Sounds like a very "Vladimir Putin" move.
Totes comparable.
https://www.voanews.com/amp/europe_putin-jailed-opposition-leader-navalny-got-what-he-deserved/6207104.html
You seem to be awfully convinced they’ve got a good case against DeSantis.
That’s a thing you could say.
I have no idea if DeSantis actually broke any laws, and especially have no idea how strong a case could be made against him. I have never said otherwise.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/09/18/massachusetts-human-trafficking-probe-desantis-migrants/10419960002/
“Massachusetts seeks human trafficking probe targeting Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis over migrants”
Earlier, you said all this human trafficking talk is just talk and won’t happen. So I guess you agree that this probe is a politically motivated witch-hunt, conducted by either incredibly stupid or dishonest people, seeking to use the justice system to punish their political opponents just as they do in authoritarian regimes.
Sure.
Great use of the word 'scheme,' Fiona. Way to lead the reader into thinking there was something underhanded about it. Might I suggest using the term 'plot' as well, and maybe sprinkling in a 'diabolical' or 'dastardly' with it?
Dastardly is grossly underused these days.
A tad sensitive about any criticism of Ron DeSantis?
No. He's pointing out dishonesty, which incidentally seems to have struck a nerve with you.
A sociopath doesn’t care if you think he’s dishonest.
And another gem: “State Sen. Aaron Bean (R–Jacksonville) stated in March that the relocation scheme wouldn't apply to people who had requested asylum in the U.S. after fleeing communist or socialist countries….” Fiona thinks that the law is determined by what a random legislator happens to say on any given day, rather than what’s actually in the law? This is third grade quality reporting here.
This could be the first group of immigrants Fiona hasn't advocated not be moved.
Has advocated not be moved*
There's an edit button, Jesse.
Didn't catch it til minute 6.
Doesn't "human trafficking" imply "for immoral or illegal purposes?"
Were there pimps or child pornographers waiting in Martha's Vineyard to exploit the illegal immigrants? Cripes, under some wildly used definitions, Amtrak and Greyhound and American Airlines can be accused of "human trafficking."
Maybe it's illegal to make a leftist look like a simpering hypocrite.
Soon.
They're already farming the job out to corporate partners.
So we're going from three to thirty felonies a day soon, then. Hrm.
I don't know, was Shrike or Jeffy there?
I'm willing the bet MV has a few pedos, but we won’t find out until the feds release epstien client list
I'm going to assume there were at least a few child predators at MV given the type of people there and the people like Harvey Weinstein that they hang out with.
Seethe Fiona.
Hey, we know the man, getting the crime should not be so hard. C'mon man.
Good lord, he really hit a home run with this stunt didnt he?
They can't stop writing articles about it.
Just wait until a few busloads get dropped off at the Reason Foundation. They'll be screaming like a bag of cats.
Oh, please be the next location.
No, Koch's house.
Then we'll see if OBL is really a prophet.
The problem is, the people in Martha's Vineyard weren't screaming because they were so upset to have migrants near them. They were screaming because no one called them ahead of time so they could better help the migrants. They were also screaming in outrage at the way DeSantis and his mooks treated those poor people.
My views on the motivations of liberals has really changed lately, and this stunt cemented it. I used to think they were just virtue-signaling, but it's becoming pretty clear that the average liberal actually is a lot more virtuous than than the average conservative. I used to think they were smug, now I realize that it is a deserved smugness. You are entitled to feel a little superior when you really are morally superior to you opponents.
He didn't just hit a home run-- he hit a home run, fucked their wives, impregnated them, drank all their liquor and changed the locks on their houses.
To be fair, I'd be pretty pissed if I was a journalist, knocking on my own front door and wondering why I could hear my wife screaming "Ronny, Baby!" through the open master bedroom window.
That is some top notch imagery.
Lulz.
Illegal immigrants have no standing to complain about which state they are dumped in.
I’d be more outraged about being assigned a court appearance in Washington state.
As has been pointed out several times in the past few days, they were not illegal.
You may have pointed it out but you were also lying about it.
You're wrong. These people entered the US illegally and are now applying for asylum under false pretenses. The fact that the Biden administration fails to hold them accountable for their illegal behavior doesn't make it legal.
They weren't "dumped" at all: they were offered a free ticket to a nice place and they decided to take it.
What if they gave these "migrants" a $10,000 prepaid college loan forgiveness stipend in American dollars? Would that make it legal?
The migrant flights could be lawful and immoral, misguided, hypocritical, expensive, and tarnish America's legacy as a nation of immigrants.
I thought Ken Burns already put paid to the myth of America's legacy as a nation of immigrants. Not to mention the 1619 Project that proved the nation was built on the backs of enslaved "immigrants".
Are you saying Ken Burns is an asshole?
Yeah, we already knew that.
Legal? Probably not. Undocumented persons attempting to cross the border should be remanded to ICE, per the law. But if some well meaning governors want to help transport them to self-proclaimed sanctuary cities or states where they will be more welcome and free from persecution, why would a hypothetical libertarian website complain?
Maybe read the article.
Maybe jump off a bridge.
they're not "undocumented". stop using the leftist vocabulary unless you're a leftists too. these people are illegal aliens, criminals. they deserve only deportation, immediately.
All this proves, yet again, is that exactly zero of your posturing about immigration is actually about immigration and in fact is just you writing about sticking it to your hated enemies. You don't give a shit about these people, they're just political props to you and always have been.
What would happen if I, a US citizen, got on a flight for Boston and the airline changed their minds and sent me to Martha's Vineyard instead?
Would they be charged with kidnapping? Could I sue for millions of dollars? No. The only thing that would happen would be that the airline would either refund my ticket or give me a new one, and reimburse me for lodging for the night. So why would this be any different? (except that the migrants paid nothing, so there is nothing to refund)
"What would happen if I, a US citizen, got on a flight for Boston and the airline changed their minds and sent me to Martha’s Vineyard instead?"
The missing ingredient... FRAUD!!! What if you were promised the moon and the stars for undertaking the journey, before you began the journey?
Fine, they could sue for lost earnings and two days missing work due to fraud. Realistically, how much would that come to?
There's no proof of that.
There is proof for Desantis'claims, however.
Alaska Airlines diverted me to friggin’ Utah a few months ago, so I’m sympathetic to this kidnapping argument.
If only it had crashed.
White Mike's destruction is not worth the death of a single real human, as much as we'd like to see him gone.
Instead of focusing on actual issues, the media and political leaders decide to focus on non-issues. This is the way.
There’s a certain beauty to it, if looked at as performance art.
It is pretty screwy that, as an asylum seeker coming to the USA, you cannot accept work for a year — but you can file a lawsuit right away!
Goddamn mike is dumb.
Asylum isn't immigration, it is a temporary status to protect people from political persecution. Asylum seekers should never be permitted to work, they should be housed until they can return to their home country.
A reminder: seeking asylum is not illegal.
How did a Venezuelan seek asylum in the US when intl law requires you to seek it in the first safe country (as determined by intl law) you come to? Several came before the US.
I hope a conservative President pulls us out of ALL asylum treaties until the terms actually get honored by all.
totally agree. terminate all of it immediately. there are 194 other countries where they can seek asylum.
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit granted asylum to Abankwah in 1999 over the objections of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which later proved fraud in her application including a stolen name and false passport. She was tried and convicted of perjury and passport fraud.
Lying about it is fraud. It is just almost never pursued. An entire article discussing how groups help concoct false claims for asylum.
https://whyy.org/articles/illegal-immigrants-lie-to-get-asylum-status-in-us/
Asylum claims are rejected over 90% at this point.
Weren't you just arguing Trump committed fraud an hour ago? Consistency shrike.
Hmm, that's a problem. So what do you propose doing about it?
What do you propose, Jeffy? Aside from ignoring it of course.
I'm asking Jesse, and now you.
What is your suggestion?
Build a wall. A big, beautiful wall. And anyone who doesn’t have legitimate immigration papers (like the ones my brother and sister had to jump through hoops to get), gets put back on the other side of the wall.
Now, what do you propose, Jeffy?
Well now, first, let's talk about some problems with your idea.
First, building *and maintaining* *and staffing* the wall will cost a great deal of money. How do you envision all of this gets paid for? Is Mexico going to pay for it? (Ha!) Also, a great deal of land to build the wall is going to have to be confiscated from private land owners. Is this a problem for you? Furthermore, some of the wall simply can't be built without effectively ceding some of the land to Mexico, as the border is actually a river. How do you propose to deal with this? Not to mention the environmental problems associated with building huge concrete and metal structures in the middle of sensitive wetlands.
Second, what about claims of asylum? By definition, these claimants don't have the proper papers yet they are entitled by international treaty to pursue a claim of asylum. Would they be permitted to pursue their claims in your world?
Third, even assuming that your proposed wall is 100% effective, what will simply happen is that all of that Soros money that is of course being used to deliberately undermine Western nations via migration (right?), will simply shift tactics and instead put people on planes so that they will fly into the country instead, bypassing the wall entirely. So I suppose that means lots more money for TSA for more security theater at airports in order to stop all those illegal Mexicans. Right?
Fourth, this isn't even getting into the heart of the liberty of the matter: why shouldn't I have my right to associate with whom I choose be protected by my government? Why should I as a citizen have to get a permission slip from the government in order for me to associate with a guest from another country that I willingly invite to my property? Do you even believe in the freedom of association?
I think your very plagiarized idea has some problems associated with it. Perhaps you ought to rethink your idea a bit more.
FOP
If asylum seekers get rejected 90% of the time, they're still lawfully here until a determination of their application.
I may well have argued that Trump committed fraud - but I would still not suggest he be punished until after a trial. So that's perfectly consistent. Now if I'd argued that Trump should be locked up now, yes, I'd be inconsistent. But I didn't so I'm not.
Oh come now. The concept of 'innocent until proven guilty' only applies to citizens. It doesn't apply to illegal Mexicans!
If illegal border crossing isn’t (or shouldn’t be) a criminal offense, innocent until proven guilty wouldn’t really apply. Furthermore, if they are undocumented they are, by definition, already proven “guilty” on the facts.
It's illegal to lie about your reasons for asylum.
Then if it is determined that they're lying, they will no longer be here lawfully.
Perhaps they should be admitted access AFTER they prove their case, steaming pile of lefty shit.
Not sure it is, technically. They’ll just reject your application.
A reminder: free plane tickets isn’t human trafficking.
Right, which is why DeSantis didn't send them back to their home country, he sent them to Martha's Vineyard. Where they may seek asylum.
"The only mention of Massachusetts in the Spanish portion of the redacted document is a handwritten abbreviation: "MA."
OK so what is the Spanish word for Massachusetts? Could it be Massachusetts?
This is tiresome, Dalmia. I mean Fiona.
Yeah, I thought Shikha Dalmia had been fired, but it seems she decided she was just trans-Irish.
"The migrant flights could be lawful and immoral, misguided, hypocritical, expensive, and tarnish America's legacy as a nation of immigrants."
The only thing we know for certain is that they are hilarious.
Fiona, Ron is not going to date you. Stop looking so desperate.
A political stunt that has been in the news for a week and completely exposed the hypocrisy of the left.
That they insist on giving themselves high fives over it is the height of hilarity.
"Look how well we took care of them....before sending in the military to kick them out within 2 days!"
And all it took was exploiting 50 desperate migrants to do it.
"Exploiting" by sending them from a dirt poor part of TX to MV.
Truly a horror.
"Exploiting" by taking advantage of their powerlessness and desperation to offer false promises to them and use them as unwilling pawns in a stunt.
Does human dignity mean nothing to you?
You really deserve all the cancers.
And you don't deserve cancer.
I’d wish brain cancer on you, but the poor cancer would starve.
The only part of your statement that had any truth at all in it was "false promises".
"You're going to a sanctuary city" *laughs ass off as they escort them to the plane*
They weren't promised anything.
"“Exploiting” by taking advantage of their powerlessness and desperation to offer false promises"
Promises made by where they were going to.
" Does human dignity mean nothing to you?"
I did not know MV was such a shithole that it is demeaning to send people there. Do rich leftists not know this?
Promises made by where they were going to.
No. They were promises made by "Perla" who made them sign the form.
I did not know MV was such a shithole that it is demeaning to send people there.
It's not about where they were sent. It was the humiliation in the entire ordeal itself. Yet you know this. You deliberately avoid this issue. I wonder why.
Nothing embarrassing about sending people from a poor locale that does NOT want them to an extremely wealthy one that has loudly and repeatedly proclaims that it does.
I love that you keep assuming these 50 people had no fucking agency. Mighty white of you.
I mean, all you have to do is just say what we all know to be true anyway: that you really don't give a shit about those migrants, and you are fully supportive of Team Red politicians exploiting powerless people (of the correct type, of course) in order to advance their agenda and embarrass Team Blue.
Dumb faggot retard is still retarded.
Yeah all the Democrats have done is create a situation where hundreds have died, been raped, sexually trafficked and enslaved including children but DeSantis is the bad guy. You notice the mote in the other's eye while ignoring the beam in your own.
Yeah all the Democrats have done is create a situation where hundreds have died, been raped, sexually trafficked and enslaved including children
If you mean that Democrats are complicit with Republicans in continuing the cruel absurdities in American immigration law, then yes you are correct. But it's not exactly a Democrat-only thing. Republicans seem to be far more enthusiastic about making American immigration law even worse than it is today.
There is no law today. Two years ago the border was under control.
Dude, put down the right-wing narratives.
As long as Democrats push open borders, it's moral to send them to the states that support said open borders
"As long as the people I don't like are doing things I don't like, it's perfectly acceptable to treat the illegal migrants as cargo in order to make a political point."
Time to make the impacts of the policies be felt by those who champion them.
...by treating the subhuman illegals as the trash that they are in those schemes.
"…by treating the subhuman illegals as the trash that they are in those schemes."
If you champion something and demand its continuation, you had best be willing to PERSONALLY maintain it.
Small towns in TX get multiples more illegals every damned day than MV got. The sheriff "investigating" the flights had more die in a trailer on his watch than arrived on MV.
Fuck those cities. If these illegals are necessary for a better country, then let people who wish to not enforce immigration law welcome them.
Tissue?
>completely exposed the hypocrisy of the left.
I'm actually really impressed by how non-hypocritical the left has been through all of this. They've always talked about how they are more compassionate and caring than heartless conservatives. As soon as these migrants showed up in Martha's Vineyard, the locals stepped up to help them. They fed them, found them a place to stay, and then helped them find a place nearby where they could be housed long-term.
Following this whole story, my main thought was: "The left has always said they are kind and compassionate, and said that the right are selfish, cruel, heartless monsters. Who'd have thought they'd turn out to be telling the truth?"
You are reaching OBL levels of parody. Well done.
Jeeze, Reason! I’m pro immigration, anti xenophobia and have actually helped individual people who admitted to me that they are illegals. But even I think you’re doubling down on lies!!!!! To quote the movie The Queen…. WRONG VILLAIN MATE!!!!
Can you say what the specific lie in the blog post above is?
"According to many reports, as well as the new lawsuit against DeSantis, the migrants are not here unlawfully."
She knows that this isn't true, you know that this isn't true, but you both repeated it. In your case many times.
Saying something that you know isn't true in order to deceive is what lying is, Mikey.
Can you provide some evidence for your argument that the claim is not true?
Shut up sea lion.
Sea lion, definition: A person with the gall to demand that someone in a space devoted to debating topics use logic and evidence when they are debating.
If they're here legally, then why didn't they just get in their car and drive back home? Or are you really suggesting DeSantis drove into the parking lot of the Piggly Wiggly, grabbed 50 random shoppers who were residents of the State of Florida and flew them to Martha's Vineyard?
It is legal to claim asylum.
These migrants, as far as I know, are following every legal process for claiming asylum.
It is legal for these migrants to remain in this country while their asylum claims are being processed.
Should the asylum process itself be repealed? Should the US withdraw from international asylum & refugee treaties? Fine, make that case. But that is not the case as of today.
And surely you know by now that these 50 migrants weren't even in the state of Florida, they were picked up in San Antonio, right?
"It is legal to claim asylum."
In the first safe country they arrive at. The US is not that.
In the first safe country they arrive at. The US is not that.
I know Trump tried to make that the policy, but I don't think that U.S. law or the treaties that the U.S. agreed to require it.
why are you on a libertarian site when you are clearly a complete leftist??
Since when have libertarians been supposed to agree with conservatives about everything? It seems like the average libertarian should vehemently oppose about half of the conservative agenda. This is especially true for immigration, where conservatives are not just wrong, they are actively cruel and sadistic.
Freer immigration has always been something sensible libertarians have supported.
so you, as a libertarian, support illegal immigration? is that your position??
Or are you really suggesting DeSantis drove into the parking lot of the Piggly Wiggly, grabbed 50 random shoppers who were residents of the State of Florida and flew them to Martha’s Vineyard?
And let's just deconstruct this question a little bit more.
Would it be wrong, in your view, for DeSantis to grab 50 random shoppers from Piggly Wiggly (with their consent, of course!) and fly them to Martha's Vineyard? If your answer is "well it depends if they are in the country legally or not", then maybe you ought to check your premises of what you think about human dignity.
"Would it be wrong, in your view, for DeSantis to grab 50 random shoppers from Piggly Wiggly (with their consent, of course!) and fly them to Martha’s Vineyard?"
No. Adults are adults. Consent is consent.
Consent obtained through fraud is not real consent.
You are an embarrassment.
How many Floridians who voted/will vote for Ron DeSantis think they are voting for Ron Jeremy? It’s Florida, so likely > 0.
It's an easy mistake to make. Ron Jeremy has a giant dick, Ron DeSantis is a giant dick.
Are Ron DeSantis' Migrant Flights Legal?
I just read this headline and nearly spat my drink all over my monitor. So now borders and legally defined political districts are a thing? Jesus, Reason, pick a position.
FFS, if I use Reason logic on borders and the free movement of people, DeSantis' Migrant flights are not only legal, they're a human right!
The idea that open/less restricted borders means total abolition of all political barriers and districts isn't a real position, or a position Reason holds. It's a reductio-ad-absurdum that critics of these positions keep claiming their opponents hold because arguing against their real position is too hard. Saying people should be freer to travel from one political district to another is not the same as saying those districts should not exist.
Also, is "I nearly spat my drink" the conservative version of "I'm literally shaking?"
Another AG PR opportunity! Those who assume the majority of the population are addled by TRS and DRS are chomping at the bit to get some NYT ink.
They may be surprised; it is anecdotal, but even in SF, public comments no longer condemn those who wonder if Trump is unfairly targeted. This is SF!
30-some days; seems droolin' Joe has some concern...
If they are not legal them neither are Biden's - his flights don't even ask.
"Three of the migrants flown to Martha's Vineyard filed a lawsuit against DeSantis yesterday, alleging that Florida officials "made false promises and false representations" that if they "were willing to board airplanes to other states, they would receive employment, housing, educational opportunities, and other like assistance upon their arrival."
Is that not what these sanctuaries have been promising? That if they come they will have a better life?
I don't see how DeSantis can be held responsible for believing what these cities have publicly stated.
The sanctuaries have been promising that if they come they will be safe from ICE and other villainous organizations. Making a better life for themselves is something they, like everyone else, is free to try (though doubtless it's easier when they don't have to worry about being kidnapped by bad guys).
That being said, Martha's Vineyard does have a large population of migrants who have settled and made a better life there. That's one thing that was really laughable about this. DeSantis' whole rational was that all these liberals would tolerate immigrants far away, but not in their backyards. But it turns out that about 25% of Martha's Vineyard's year round residents are immigrants from Brazil! DeSantis is either stupid or too lazy to do the research!
Realizing that the ultra liberal elites of Martha's Vineyard already had this huge migrant population, makes me realize just how un-hypocritical they are. It turns out the reason they support immigration is because of personal experience. They live somewhere with lots of immigrants, so they have first-hand knowledge that all the claims that conservatives make about immigrants making places worse are all crap.
"Per the suit, the woman didn't explain what the consent form said"
Then why'd they sign the paper?
Per the interview on CNN, they knew exactly where they were going and were happy to be there.
Oops.
"At least some of the migrants DeSantis sent to Martha's Vineyard were children."
DeSantis didn't deceive the children though.
The best logic I can grok from Reason is... they should have been put in cages at the border. Being sent to the tony community of self-declared Sanctuary City Martha's Vineyard is akin to going to a death camp.
...Florida officials "made false promises..." that... "they would receive employment, housing, educational opportunities, and other like assistance upon their arrival."
Ummmm... isn't that what the Dems promised them before they crossed the border? And isn't that the definition of what a "sanctuary state" would provide?
Why fly asylum seekers in Texas to Martha’s Vineyard? Why not relocate some of the estimated 800,000 illegal immigrants living in Florida?
The answer is that DeSantis, like just about all Florida politicians, is in the pocket of agriculture and tourist interests. (Just not Disney anymore. Of course, DeSantis didn’t give back any of the half a million that Disney had donated to his PACs before they went ‘woke’.) DeSantis and the GOP legislature made sure that a bill requiring employers to use E-Verify only applied to government employers. Because, you know, the Florida Department of Health would pay illegals under the table, if they could.
Florida businesses and voters (especially the retirees on fixed incomes) want to keep food cheap, hotels and restaurants affordable, and lawns mowed, so they vote for and donate to Republicans with the understanding that they won’t actually do anything to keep them from hiring illegals. DeSantis and other Florida Republicans can talk tough all they want about ‘securing the border’ and keeping the
undesirablesillegal immigrants out, but they won’t do anything to reduce the demand for their labor.Everyone around here harping about illegal immigrants are just talking tough and showing their prejudices unless they are willing to put their money where their mouths are and accept even higher food prices. That is what would happen after the undocumented immigrants that make up more than half of the farm labor force in this country aren’t here anymore, and Big Ag has to pay much higher wages to Americans to do the jobs. And it will be the same for a lot of hospitality and service industry jobs.
So reward DeSantis for screaming about illegals in Texas and flying 50 asylum seekers to a rich, white enclave in a "sanctuary state" while doing absolutely nothing about the ones actually in his own state. Continue being distracted by this performative nonsense while he and the Florida GOP don’t do shit to actually make life better for Floridians.
Elitist Leftists in Martha's Vineyard were exposed by the stunt. As a result no stops and no stone will be left un-turned because someone had the audacity to est their virtue signal.
It is said that every citizen is in violation of a series of laws every day no matter how squeaky clean they are. The corporate media is inflate and conflate in an attempt to resurrect the hallowed perception of the Elitist Leftists.
The 300 million "deplorables", just don't understand how important these Elitist Leftists are to the survival of "INSERT CURRENT CAUSE". This is how they feel.
Most people just want to be left alone and when a problem arises, to be listened to, understood and not be called names like Stupid, Racist, Phobic, and the list goes on.
Trump noticed this and exploited it. Personally, I don't like Trump. He did however tap into the underlying sentiment and demonstrated that people are not alone with their feelings. Trump applied the tactics of the Elitist Leftists against the left which resulted in TDS.
Much like when four minute mile barrier where runners realized it could be achieved, now it is common. The root of Trumpism isn't about Trump who is a flawed person, but rather a populism that realizes that the system is being gamed by Elitist Leftists.
Most people just want to be left alone and when a problem arises, to be listened to, understood and not be called names
Does that include people such as, say, migrants seeking asylum from Venezuela? Do you think they would prefer to be left alone while they follow the legal asylum procedures that are available to them? Do you think they should be listened to when they claim that they have a problem, such as being persecuted in their home country? Do you think they would prefer not to be called names such as "ILLEGALS" or "CRIMINALS"?
Do you think they're stupid and can't understand what is going on around them?
From what I've been reading, those people were given a consent form, written in several languages and allowed themselves to be transported. This was during the daylight hours, whilst dementia Joe's flights took place in the middle of the night into cities where they were simply kicked off the plane and left with no where to go.
The poor things were sent to Martha's Vineyard. Obviously they were trafficked, right? The good people on the island gave them a quick lunch and then had the U.S. military escort them off the island, onto a military base, telling the poor trafficked people they were going to a dormitory, instead, ended up on a military base that was also an EPA super fund site because it was so polluted.
So now, who's the real criminal?
Then, there's this idiot sheriff in Texas who somehow believes his authority extends all the way to Florida who wants to arrest DeSantis. By the way, he has problems of his own after three young women were murdered and he has done little to investigate.
I want to see DeSantis fly a couple thousand to MV. Keep exposing the liberal elite hypocrisy.
Great comment.
From what I’ve been reading, those people were given a consent form, written in several languages and allowed themselves to be transported.
Where have you been reading that? From what I've been reading, the form that they signed was primarily in English, but the Spanish translation was incomplete. (Several languages? That seems like it would be unnecessary as I think they were all from a Spanish-speaking country, Venezuela.)
This was during the daylight hours, whilst dementia Joe’s flights took place in the middle of the night into cities where they were simply kicked off the plane and left with no where to go.
That's an dramatic accusation. What flights are you talking about, and what makes you sure that it was a Biden policy, rather than something that also occurred under Trump?
Then, there’s this idiot sheriff in Texas who somehow believes his authority extends all the way to Florida who wants to arrest DeSantis.
I don't think the sheriff said anything about wanting to arrest DeSantis, but if crimes might have occurred in his jurisdiction, then it is his duty to investigate them. If he finds evidence that someone outside of his jurisdiction committed crimes in his county, then he could ask for extradition or refer the matter to state or federal authorities if the crimes were violations of state or federal law.
By the way, he has problems of his own after three young women were murdered and he has done little to investigate.
Again, I don't know what you are referring to, but it is true that he has a duty to investigate any potential crimes within his jurisdiction, no matter who may have committed them or who the victims were.
Reason.com continues to prove it is an anti-Libertarian pro-Leftist publication. These illegal aliens ALL SIGNED A WAIVER to make the journey to Martha's Vineyard. The courts will throw out their petition. These illegals shouldn’t even be in these United States. STOP WITH THE MARXIST PROPAGANDA REASON!
They were Venezuelan asylum seekers, here legally.
No. By definition if they came through a third country they are not entitled to asylum.
No, there is no definition in the law or treaties governing refugees that requires that they apply for asylum in the first 'safe' country that they arrive at. Trump tried to make that policy, but it isn't what the law says. It also would be bad policy, as it would mean that countries bordering the troubled ones would bear virtually all of the burden of dealing with those refugees, even more than they already do. the EU has a policy that sounds like that at first glance, but it really just means that once they start the process of seeking asylum in one country, they have to stick with that and not try again in a different EU member country.
In this house, we believe that no migrant flights are illegal.
We also believe that science is whatever Anthony Fauci says it is
where the hell did fiona come from? what a leftist apologist.
"two big legal questions are germane to the stunt" -- really, a stunt? no he's flying the criminals out of his state that brandon flew in. given how much noise the lefties like fiona are making it looks like the "stunt" is working and having it's desired effect.
Actually, he's using money earmarked to remove people from his state to fly them out of another, completely different state. And since the planes stopped to refuel in Florida, he actually flew them into his state first! That's what a stupid scumbag DeSantis is!
I actually support using the deception argument because that makes all illegal immigration double illegal, and as we all know, once you make a double dog dare, you're really breaking stated conventions continuing to resist. Don't make me triple dog dare you.
Any illegal immigrant promised anything more than inevitable deportation has been deceived.
They weren't illegal.
Cities have been bussing their homeless from city to city for decades.
The fact that this is all over the news tell you it's a political argument.
Is knifepoint robbery legal? Is murder over a cell phone legal? I don’t mean to say that all are like this but you have no idea what has happened in other countries that have welcomed millions of Venezuelans.
Wonder what some leftist lawyer offered those two to file suit? You know they didn't seek out to file a suit on their own.
Citizenship and celebrityhood.
"Three of the migrants flown to Martha's Vineyard filed a lawsuit against DeSantis"
And just where did the attorneys representing these ILLEGAL migrants come from and who is paying them?
The only reason this is an issue is because DeSantis is a 2024 GOP contender. The Left needs to knock him down hard over the next year. He was trying to make a point, like TX Gov Abbott, that the federal government is failing to deal with the border problems and the political left in this country is completely hypocritical on the issue of immigration.
How is Martha's Vineyard, a town whose year-round residents are 25% Brazilian immigrants, hypocritical about immigration? How are its residents hypocritical when they pitched in to help those people, just like they say everyone should?
According to the letter of the law, transporting illegal aliens is a felony. However, in this day when our Commander and Cheat has opened the border and allowed an invasion of millions into the country and is committing downright treason, I’d have to say the Gov. actions are like jaywalking compared to murder.
Biden should be impeached for high crimes against Americans. Selling our oil reserves to China is another high crime and treasonous offense. I think he is under China's thumb and doing their bidding. He has sold out the nation.
Traitor Joe violates his constitutional oath every single day he wakes up, and all we hear are crickets chirping. What a piece of shit.
"The migrant flights could be lawful and immoral, misguided, hypocritical, expensive,...."
Let's tackle the last point first, cause it's mind-blowing coming from a libertarian sheet. Can Reason imagine a scale? Put the cost of a bus ticket on one side?
And put the costs for a family of six: 1. Housing 2. Food. 3. Medical Care 4. Clothing 5. Utilities 6. Education 7. Translators 8. Legal Aid 9. Transportation subsidies etc, on the other side of the scale? And just for ONE year, not the multiple years they will require.
I'll tell you what, Reason writers, I'll pay the cost for transportation, you pay the costs of keeping them in place, and one of us pays the other the difference. Who will come out ahead?
Really? Does Reason of all outfits, need to be reminded of Milton Friedman? "You can open borders. You can have a massive welfare state. You can not have both."
Was it legal for Martha's Vineyard to deport them by bus?
Wow, Fiona's going for Shikha-level BS.
There is nothing "dubious" about this. It was something that proved the Woke Authoritarian Left's hypocrisy by farcing them to engage in NIMBY (Not In My Backyard). What we have is another REASON hack journalist who works for establishment politicians trying to frame this story in a way to make it look like what DeSantis did was bad. As with every #GetTrump effort you establishment hacks have engaged in with the Authoritarian Left this too will fail.
They didn't engage in NIMBY. They helped the people who were sent there. They fed them, housed them, and then found a place that could house them long-term and then helped them go there. They were pretty awesome about the whole thing.
The only way you could claim this is hypocritical is to say that since the migrants were sent to Martha's Vineyard they had to stay there, even though there wasn't any good long-term housing for them. That doesn't make any sense. You can criticize the town for making it too hard to build new houses, but that's not an issue directly related to immigration.
It's like people were so sure this would expose liberal as hypocrites that they just keep saying it did, even though it didn't.
Hahaha, no they didn’t. A church took them in and the local government called in the national guard to get them off the island in less than 48 hours.
Critics of the DeSantis flights are missing the point, probably willfully. He flew 50 migrants to Martha's Vineyard. This is out of the approximately 2 million arrivals to date in this year alone under the Biden Administration. Presumably, the vast majority of these immigrants are looking to better their lives and will become productive citizens.
But the flights to MV are not about this. They are about forcing blue states and "sanctuary cities" to live up to their rhetoric and the Biden Administration to confront a border crisis that is designed to crush red-state border towns until they capitulate to Democratic Party preferences. (This obsessive focus on the use of taxpayer money in Florida is odd, btw, particularly since Martha's Vineyard would surely be able to leverage the power of capitalism to help immigrants thrive better than many places in the USA.)
So, keep parsing the legal codes as the day is long, if you want. But this outrage is performative and will only worsen an already combustible situation, particularly since Democrats have made any rational policy debate impossible due to labeling any criticism as "racist." Politically, DeSantis is on the winning side here, and he should be.
Amazing that no one cares where these "migrants" wind up until they show up in Obama's front yard.
What about the flights in the middle of the night of these illegal immigrants done by the Biden administration? Where is the outrage about that? The critic of the bussing don't even bother to ask "how did these people get here?" and "what is the impact on the border communities?" Of course, poor border communities are beneath them; only when Martha's Vineyard is impacted does the outrage come out. Of course, we live in a two-tier system regarding legalities where Dems are immune from any critique.
Somebody estimated that, on average, every American commits three felonies a day. We're ALL criminals!!!!
In Washington and NYC, among other places, justice is not about the law, it's about what party you "belong" to. If you "belong" to that other party, you are fair game. If you "belong" to the party in power, do as you please.
Really? Then why are you not in jail? A FELONY is "a crime, typically one involving violence, regarded as more serious than a misdemeanor, and usually punishable by imprisonment for more than one year or by death." Don't know about you but I don't do ANY OF THOSE THINGS. Don't know where YOU get your information, I would guess more or less from KJP and the Biden Crime Syndicate, but you are one whacked job in the head.
Political stunt? Once again Reason has shown its cluelessness. Biden throwing open the border to entice cheap labor and more voters is a political stunt. DeSantis sending the illegals to other states to make a critical point about how Biden is harming border states and Americans in general is no stunt. It's a deadly serious wake-up call to Democrats. But you can ignore it if you choose -- your opinions are largely irrelevant to the larger political scene anyway.