If Ron DeSantis Hates Communism, He Shouldn't Weaponize Victims of Communism
The governor flew dozens of Venezuelans to Martha's Vineyard at taxpayer expense, even though they fled a regime he says "is responsible for countless atrocities."

In May, Republican Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signed a bill establishing a "Victims of Communism Day" in his state "to honor the hundreds of millions of people who have suffered under communist regimes across the world."
"While it's fashionable in some circles to whitewash the history of communism," DeSantis said in a statement, "Florida will stand for truth and remain as a beachhead for freedom."
One would assume that promise would extend to migrants fleeing economic ruin and humanitarian turmoil in Venezuela, a country that DeSantis has decried for its "communist regime." But with DeSantis' decision this week to fly around 50 Venezuelan migrants to Martha's Vineyard, the governor's commitment to supporting the victims of crushing left-wing regimes is questionable.
Flights carrying migrants reached the small Massachusetts island of Martha's Vineyard on Wednesday. Before taking off from San Antonio, Texas, the migrants were reportedly told they would be transported not to Martha's Vineyard but to Boston, where they could receive expedited work papers. DeSantis paid for the flights through a devoted state fund totaling $12 million, set aside by the Florida Legislature this year to transport migrants to so-called sanctuary states.
The more details emerge about the Martha's Vineyard stunt, the clearer it becomes that DeSantis has chosen to view migrants as a punishment to be inflicted on blue states. Florida officials "very intentionally chose not to call ahead to any single office authority on Martha's Vineyard so that even the most basic human needs arrangements could be made," Rachel Self, an immigration attorney, shared with reporters on Martha's Vineyard. "Ensuring that no help awaited the migrants at all was the entire point."
Andres Duarte, a 30-year-old Venezuelan interviewed by NPR, said that he and other migrants "got on the plane with a vision of the future, of making it." Though the woman who convinced him to board the flight provided few details about the journey, Duarte was hopeful. "When you have no money and someone offers help, well, it means a lot."
Rather than welcoming the people fleeing one of the world's most repressive and punishing regimes, DeSantis chose to weaponize them. This group included at least four kids younger than 9. It included people seeking refuge after escaping the regime of Nicolás Maduro, who DeSantis says "is responsible for countless atrocities and has driven Venezuela into the ground." And it was crafted to create a media splash—help wasn't waiting for the Venezuelans when they landed, but a videographer reportedly was.
All this from the governor who signed legislation requiring all public school teachers to devote at least 45 minutes of instruction on Victims of Communism Day to teach students about the suffering inflicted by communist regimes; who renamed a Tampa road after a survivor of communism in Cuba; who urged the Biden administration to provide Cubans with internet to access free information in defiance of the communist regime; who awarded a Cuban anti-communist dissident the Governor's Medal of Freedom. All this from the governor who groups Venezuela with the evil and corrupt communist regimes of the world.
As recently as last year, DeSantis spoke favorably of the people who flee those regimes to find refuge in the United States. "Why would somebody flee across shark infested waters, say leaving from Cuba, to come to southern Florida?" DeSantis said back then. "Why would people leave [communist] countries and risk their life to be able to come here? It's important that students understand that."
Many questions remain unanswered: whether the migrants will stay in Massachusetts, whether DeSantis' move violated any state or federal laws, and the precise details of how migrants were compelled to board those flights. But it's clear that these are people who could build better lives here and contribute to American communities if given the chance. Instead, DeSantis, at taxpayer expense, used these Venezuelan asylum seekers—who weren't even in Florida in the first place—to carry out a political stunt, weaponizing victims of a regime he's vigorously denounced.
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Fiona, you, like ENB, miss the point completely. They are not being used as weapons of any kind, whatsoever. They all volunteered, signed consent forms, and were flown to a place that called itself a "sanctuary". These sanctuaries have shown themselves to be nothing more than virtual signalling hypocrites.
The average person should be so lucky as to receive a free trip to vacation land.
Hi
Fiona knows nothing about Communism but folks in South Florida do, and they love DeSantis.
Fiona attended the University of Arizona, graduating with a bachelor’s degree in political science. At Arizona, she was a member of Phi Beta Kappa and received an award from the Honors College for her photojournalism work on the U.S.-Mexico border. Originally from Pittsburgh, she currently lives in Washington, D.C.
IOW: a know nothing, wannabe adult. Perhaps one day?
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Thank you. I was going to say the same thing exactly.
Hopefully, Fiona will grow up and practice critical thinking. Fiona, Get out of DC and find reality. This article may be the worst Reason article I have read in 25+ years.
The weathly white women "journalists" doing what they do on reason lately.
Childlike reasoning yields mindless, uninformed jibberish.
I just worked part-time from my apartment for 5 weeks, but I made $30,030. I lost my former business and was soon worn out. Thank goodness, I found this employment [res-03] online and I was able to start working from home right away. This top career is achievable by everyone, and it will improve their online revenue by:.
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After reading this article:>> https://extradollars3.blogspot.com/
You know these writers don’t care, right?
They picked their side. And they’ll argue their silly biases no matter how much grasping at straws the need to do.
Agreed. This article is very weird and not what one expects to find in Reason. It reads as if it were written by a NY Times Gen-Z intern who is parroting the Democratic Party's daily talking points.
DeSantis has not, at any juncture, impugned immigrants and I do not see how any of this relates to his staunch anti-Communism or to the humanitarian crisis in Venezuela. He flew them to Martha's Vineyard, not North Korea. Nor do I see why being 9 years old is relevant, provided the children were traveling safely with their parents. Actual human trafficking takes place around the border daily, due in part to the Biden Administration's gas-lighting, and it destroys the lives of children, young people and women. The liberal media, thus far, seems not to care about this provided they get to virtue-signal from blue enclaves.
Moreover, given that Martha's Vineyard is one of the safest places in America, with superb schools, I find the "weaponization" issue to be specious. If the author is genuinely concerned about the taxpayer dollars being spent to ferry 50 immigrants--out of an estimated 1.5 million illegal immigrants to cross in 2022 to date -- to the Vineyard, perhaps she could include an analysis of the effects of unrestrained immigration on border towns, as well, so that we can assess for ourselves.
What DeSantis has done is to call out the Biden Administration's lies, force the elite media to pay attention, and provided a free flight to a town that is not only a self-proclaimed sanctuary city but one of the richest enclaves in the world. This hyperventilating among the progressive class is not convincing.
"This article is very weird and not what one expects to find in Reason. It reads as if it were written by a NY Times Gen-Z intern who is parroting the Democratic Party's daily talking points."
So, basically, a typical Reason.com article. Like so many others.
Just tell her to GFH
From the Libertarian party platform - Immigration
We call for the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally.
Undocumented non-citizens should not be denied the fundamental freedom to labor and to move about unmolested. Furthermore, immigration must not be restricted for reasons of race, religion, political creed, age, or sexual preference.
We welcome all refugees to our country and condemn the efforts of U.S. officials to create a new "Berlin Wall" which would keep them captive. We condemn the U.S. government's policy of barring those refugees from our country and preventing Americans from assisting their passage to help them escape tyranny or improve their economic prospects.
You are in no way a libertarian.
end the welfare state and open the borders wide
But only in that order. Doesn't work the other way around.
One reason I'm a libertarian -- they support freedom of movement for human beings.
One reason I'm a libertarian -- they support freedom of movement for human beings.
Regardless of the stance of Reason and other liberaltarian outlets, this is NOT a libertarian stance.
It is the position of the anti-private property leftists that have infected the libertarian movement.
All nations have the right and duty to protect their borders from invasion.
Nobody has the right to sneak across borders, especially if they are criminals, drug dealing cartels and child molesters.
Our southern border needs to be patrolled night and day with Apache attack helicopters and special forces.
I've spent about 40 weeks doing volunteer aid work in Mexican border towns (El Florido, Nogales, Mexicali) over the past 25 years. Building houses, churches, doctor's offices, etc. In Mexico. (Never met anyone in our group who claimed to be from Martha's Vineyard.)
Most of the people we help are good, hard-working (but unskilled) folks, who are moving up to the border for economic opportunities. It might be day labor passes, it might be just the retail opportunities from the business of a border town. Sometimes someone is waiting on immigration paperwork.
Fully one third of my family in the US is made up of (legal) Mexican immigrants or their American children. Which makes for a hell of a Thanksgiving. I spent several years working bar in our family's taqueria. So, if I'm biased, it's in favor of Mexicans and their culture and streamlining the legal immigration process.
That said, almost no one who is one of the good people I mentioned earlier likes coyotes. No one who is waiting on immigration paperwork appreciates the illegal line-jumpers who use them. My family is appalled by how they are constantly associated with illegals - one of our restaurants got raided by INS the other year (0 arrests).
Maybe the Reason editors, and/or the Biden administration, should spend a couple weeks at the border on the Mexican side, do some work, meet some people, and report back afterwards. Kamala at least.
Thank you!
I would add that "economic opportunities" is NOT the legal requirement for asylum seekers - yet, we all know that the overwhelming majority of those who are crossing are coming for that exact reason! Yet, there's nothing being done to stop it!!
Well said!
Given the sort of people who live in Marthxa's Vineyard, I suppose it might potentially be a communist hellhole.
The worst part is James Taylor humming to himself in the Chilmark Store.
Lol. Agreed.
James Taylor is great. But he probably thinks that song is about him, doesn't he?
Because they aren't Trump worshipping white trash stoked on their SSDI and Trump COVID handouts?
This creep posted a link to child porn.
No, they're Davos worshiping trash who got stoked on their 2008 Bank and 2020 Covid bailouts.
A few years back you posted kiddy porn to this site, and your initial handle was banned. The link below details all the evidence surrounding that ban. A decent person would honor that ban and stay away from Reason. Instead you keep showing up, acting as if all people should just be ok with a kiddy-porn-posting asshole hanging around. Since I cannot get you to stay away, the only thing I can do is post this boilerplate.
https://reason.com/2022/08/06/biden-comforts-the-comfortable/?comments=true#comment-9635836
Don't respond to SPB, just shun him.
#FillingInForOvert
It's easy to handle these trolls, just "mute" them.
None of the stormfront rejects in the reason dot com comment section are gainfully employed. It doesn't stop them from railing against welfare for others, as long as they're not brown
Do you have a list?
Cryptonazis always have lists, and people who accuse people of being 'stormfront rejects' are always projecting.
"They won't work and hate welfare!!!"
This has got to be Tony.
Oh wait; what's this.. The CARES Act was written 87% by Democrat Politicians???? 'Trumps' handouts?? lol... An inconvenient fact to your never-ending propaganda. And just wipe out all that other inconvenient truth like Biden has so far handed out $3T (3x-That) and the D-Party whining and crying their 87% written bill wasn't BIG ENOUGH...
No because they aren’t libertarian
Martha's Vineyard. Communist? Yes, at least in spirit and rhetoric. Hellhole? Only if you are annoyed by a clutch of self-righteous, left-elite snobs. But certainly not in terms of median household income and material lifestyle.
Perhaps the locals can show the immigrants what successful communism looks like.
They threw the brown immigrants out of their sanctuary and complained about them.
Typical commies, always posing and lying.
Headline from Babylon Bee:
Martha's Vineyard Resident Calls Police To Report A Hispanic In The Neighborhood Not Operating A Leaf Blower
The challenge for the Bee is still writing sarcastic scenarios that have not already happened.
Can I sign up and get a free ride to the Vineyard? The horrors I will face when I arrive will be worth it.
As long as Teddy Kennedy isn't driving across a bridge, I think you'll be fine.
It’s safe now. They don’t make Oldsmobiles anymore.
He should send the next planeload to Bryant Pond and let Tucker sort it out.
How is Ron DeSantis hurting these immigrants?
Run with me a minute. If a bunch of homeless people keep camping on my front lawn, and I'm concerned I don't have the resources (or patience) to deal with them, but my neighbor loudly declared her front lawn a sanctuary for homeless people, why am I hurting those homeless people by driving them in a van to my neighbor's house?
To be more direct with the analogy, we're not upset with Mexico (or any of the other several countries "refugees" have passed through to get to America. No one in the Biden administration, or the Democrats, or the soros-funded NGOs "helping" these immigrants have complained... so why do we complain of the Country of Florida "helps" shepherd these migrants into a welcoming community?
The good people of Martha's Vineyard are complaining because deep down they realize that they are racists and hate immigrants, or anybody else who doesn't have an eight figure net worth.
We Stand With Immigrants Unless They're Standing Too Close To Home.
/tolerant leftist snobs
So in order to avoid having to think about anything, you're saying that what those people actually did (help the people), deep down they really are as racist as Republicans. Wouldn't that be convenient.
Sorry there are still humans who treat each other with dignity. Foiled DeSantis's little plan, didn't it? But no bother. You can simply lie.
How is outrage over those advertising sanctuary and then shipping immigrants out dignity.
So shipping them to Florida like Biden did is acceptable but shipping them to Martha's vineyard isn't? Fuck off.
They have to go somewhere. The problem is lying to them about where they're going and using them like campaign slaves.
Campaign slaves? You mean like Democrats have been doing for years?
Why would they have to lie about sending them to a nice place?
Where do you suppose they said they were going to send them?
Because they wanted to deceive them in order for them to miss their court dates and get deported.
I wonder how many federal crimes DeSantis racked up in this stunt.
Because they wanted to deceive them in order for them to miss their court dates and get deported.
Hahahahahaha--those court dates get missed all the time.
Does that even make sense to you, Tony?
How do you figure DeSantis has power over illegals once they're in Massachusetts or Illinois?
You're just throwing out anything and hoping it sticks at this point, huh?
He doesn't have power over them or want it. He used them for his political stunt and forgot all about them. That's the point. Not treating people as humans. Not caring about what happens to them once you're done using them.
You’re such a hypocrite.
The open border is a political stunt as well. So what you are saying is that it is ok for one side to use them as a tool but not the other.
Do you even read the things you write?
No, he’s a lying hypocritical idiot.
Said the abortionist.
Everything is so terrible and unfair, tony.
what should be happening is that brandon should be deporting these criminals. problem is that the current regime believes in a total open border -- meaning no border. brandon is also a criminal in this.
No. They are actually racists. Not the fake kind where a progressive yells "racist" at anyone who disagrees with them.
If you have not traveled and only get your news from TV, you might believe your stupid position.
But if you have been places, you know better.
The south is not very racist at all. I know. I spent 15 years traveling the south with my black wife. (I ain't black). We went everywhere. Redneck bars. Pentecostal churches. Truck stops.
Exactly zero white people ever even looked at us cross-eyed in 15 years.
New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts.... not the same thing at all.
And since then I have traveled the Canada border. Liberal enclaves in flyover country can be very segregated and very racist.
I have encountered plenty of far right weirdos (I am thinking specifically of a pentecostal church in the Georgia mountains with actual rattlesnakes in cages in the sanctuary) and every single one was at least publicly kind and welcoming to my wife.
I have heard many overtly racist things from the far left.
In fact, the most recent overtly racist thing I heard was from a jewish NY refugee leftist who works for UN related NGOs and travels the world "solving conflicts". She went on a racist screed at CiCis Pizza when a bus load of youth soccer players of South American heritage came in. I was concerned I was gonna get lynched.
The only racists I have ever encountered in a negative way are people just like you.
I'm not really interested in changing racists into decent people. I suspect that's simply a matter of racist generations being replaced by decent generations.
The big thing in progressive circles is how racism is systematic, and that's what matters. For example, immigration policy pretty much entirely depending on the color of the skin of the population people have in mind.
If South Americans were white as Europeans, do you think we'd still have a terrible, convoluted immigration system and populist politics centered around keeping them out? Be honest.
No, we'd still have designated quotas allowed from each country with stipulations that the legal immigrants are not criminals, have followed certain entrance protocols (receiving permission to emigrate from their home country and permission to enter ours, immunizations (COVID!!!!), are not fleeing legal procedures, have employment prospects, etc.) and are willing to comport to our laws and customs and when applicable will become citizens. Is that the system that you so deplore?
I don't think there should be any national borders at all. I believe in freedom.
No. You believe on welfare. You have advocated in the past nobody should have to work and provide for themselves.
Of course they shouldn't. That's what slaves are for.
Of course I have. Why on god's green earth would you argue otherwise? That people should be forced to work for no good reason? Hands off my body.
Considering you're never getting your Fully Automated Gay Space Communist Utopia, work is the only option you have.
Not with that attitude.
Tony you dope. Where do you think food comes from? Work!
How does a home yet built? Work!
How are roads made? Work!
The fact that you would want these things, but feel you should not have to work for them shows a great flaw in your character not everyone else.
Tony. What you expect is for others to become slaves, so your lazy worthless ass won't have to get your hands dirty.
If all the producers (aka. Workers) disappeared off of the face of the earth you would die, because you need them to survive. If all the lazy whining progressive pricks died today, the rest of us would be just fine.
Salt of the earth disability check sponges.
Not with that attitude.
Reality has a way of smashing such pretensions.
I don't think there should be any national borders at all.
Which will never happen, no matter how badly the WEF and academia (may they both be nuked, and that right soon) want it that way.
But I'm pretending to be an ideological libertarian. Since when have matters of practicality ever stopped me from having an opinion on how things should be?
I have been lectured for years about why masses of people should suffer needlessly in service of the "principles" of the free market.
Do you believe in freedom from government, or do you pick and choose policies according only to which ones you believe benefit you personally, no matter how many other people must suffer?
Because if I'm the only libertarian left at this libertarian website, wouldn't that be ironic.
Property rights are the reason for borders. No one can be libertarian who does not support borders.
But I'm pretending to be an ideological libertarian. Since when have matters of practicality ever stopped me from having an opinion on how things should be?
But you're a communist. So you answered your own question.
If South Americans were white as Europeans
You've never actually been to South America, have you?
Q: Why didn’t we take the white South African farmers?
A: they were white
I've lived in redneck Texas and tolerant California. In Texas, people got along and treated each other with respect. In California everyone was trying to agitate everyone against each other for political gain.
Yep, Tony is totally not a Democrat. He just agrees with everything they stand for, and cheers everything they do.
Oh no, I'm a registered Democrat and full-throated supporter.
I'm a registered Democrat and full-throated supporter.
but do you swallow?
Pretty sure he swallows, and bottoms too.
+10000
Dahyum, bro!
Help them? They locked them in cages.
Look Tonster, we can’t all be racist hypocrites like you, ok.
And if you can’t grok what I’m saying: If you’re outraged about undocumented migrants being VOLUNTARILY sent to places that have said they have open arms for all gods creatures (except Republicans, blech), you’re a racist piece of shit and a hypocrite.
They didn't "help" them. They put them up in a dorm room for the night, and shipped them off the first moment they could.
Which is exactly the point. Sending them to the poser "sanctuaries" exposes them for the frauds they are. I didn't agree with this busing and flying people to these places at first considering the excessive costs for Texas and Florida, but the hypocritical libtard hyperbole it has generated has turned out the be well worth the cost.
I suppose people like yourself would rather these immigrants not get shipped to a hell hole like Martha's Vineyard, or NYC, when they could spend their days in Texas stuck in a chainlink cell with their space blankets, and childrens' indoctrination books written nice old Democrat ladies. Thanks Obama.
I think it’s hilarious. The hypocrites are all really passed off too.
If they are willing to do gardening or housekeeping cheap, they can stay.
Exactly. Almost all elitist Democrats are racist to the core.
They are more hypocrites than racists. I am tired of everyone acting like it's racist to not expect the US to support the world
Oh, no. They're racists too. The most important thing to them is skin color, well, maybe that's tied with gender identity now. In their world, people with different skin colors must be treated differently. That's racism.
But people who think skin color shouldn't and doesn't matter are called racists.
"If you have always believed that everyone should play by the same rules…that would have gotten you labeled a radical 50 years ago, a liberal 25 years ago, and a racist today." [Thomas Sowell]
You know, Dianne, you're not just driving them to a random neighbor. You are driving them to the house of the neighbor who has actively advocated for homeless to move here, but done so knowing that it was YOUR lawn they were camping on, not their own.
Super easy to be all sanctimonious when they don't have to actually deal with the ill effects of their virtue signalling.
Anyway, if your neighbors say they LOVE the homeless, good for you giving them some new friends to love.
I live in a sanctuary city. My state borders Canada. Guess what happened when Trump said he'd send migrants to Seattle? Exactly what you'd expect.
Details man, details!
It's simple: When Martha's Vineyard kicks immigrants out, they're doing it to HELP. When Abbott sends immigrants out of his racist shithole state to the sanctuary city, he's EVIL.
The funniest thing about this kerfuffle is that the Vineyard abounds in cheap summer labor thanks to Congress leaning on State for copious Green Card handouts to various old sods assure a good supply of Irish au pairs, Baltic boat sitters and Brazilian brush cutters
Brazilian brush cutters are needed to maintain the residents' bikini lines.
That was my dream career but I failed the entrance exams.
Yep, with Reason writers it is inevitably principals over principles.
From the Libertarian party platform - Immigration
We call for the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally.
Undocumented non-citizens should not be denied the fundamental freedom to labor and to move about unmolested. Furthermore, immigration must not be restricted for reasons of race, religion, political creed, age, or sexual preference.
We welcome all refugees to our country and condemn the efforts of U.S. officials to create a new "Berlin Wall" which would keep them captive. We condemn the U.S. government's policy of barring those refugees from our country and preventing Americans from assisting their passage to help them escape tyranny or improve their economic prospects.
We hold that human rights should not be denied or abridged on the basis of nationality. We condemn massive roundups of Hispanic Americans and others by the federal government in its hunt for individuals not possessing required government documents. We strongly oppose all measures that punish employers who hire undocumented workers. Such measures repress free enterprise, harass workers, and systematically discourage employers from hiring Hispanics.
Which is why the Libertarian Party will never be more than sideshow.
Their immigration stance is several heapings of utopian thought with a finishing dash of racialist jackassery.
I'm also similarly confused about weaponizing them.
If I'm operating a gun dealership somewhere in the Everglades and a bunch of wet-foot/dry-foot Cubans show up and say "Sell us some guns, we're going to go back to Cuba to overthrow the Communists." I'm pretty sure "Uh, I can't. I'm a libertarian." may be the *most* racist (I know), shitbag answer I could give them.
The more details emerge about the Martha's Vineyard stunt, the clearer it becomes that DeSantis has chosen to view migrants as a punishment to be inflicted on blue states.
And from the comments I've seen from the governors and mayors of these Blue areas, the seem to think it's a punishment as well.
DeSantis should send them to Jared "I just want to leave you alone" Polis' state of Colorado.
Colorado will provide them with access to ALL PUBLIC BENEFITS, including but not limited to healthcare, mental healthcare, rental assistance, food stamps... oh yeah, and a BUSINESS LICENSE! So from my perspective, and this is NOT snark, Colorado seems like a fan-fucking-tastic destination if I was escaping a communist hellhole? Or are we still trying to have this immigration bullshit bowf ways?
DeSantis should send them to Jared "I just want to leave you alone" Polis' state of Colorado.
Might as well, they've been migrating in droves there the last 20-odd years. Maybe they'll get enough back in Denver to drive out the white liberal gentrifiers on the north side.
"One would assume that promise would extend to migrants fleeing economic ruin and humanitarian turmoil in Venezuela"
Shocked to learn that no countries exist between Venezuela and the USA. Because asylum requires you to go the first officially recognized safe country you enter.
"Florida officials "very intentionally chose not to call ahead to any single office authority on Martha's Vineyard so that even the most basic human needs arrangements could be made," Rachel Self, an immigration attorney, shared with reporters on Martha's Vineyard. "Ensuring that no help awaited the migrants at all was the entire point.""
You mean like Biden has done dozens of time so far? In the middle of the night to boot. Even happened the night of the MV incident.
"The more details emerge about the Martha's Vineyard stunt, the clearer it becomes that DeSantis has chosen to view migrants as a punishment to be inflicted on blue states."
By sending them to locales that allegedly WANT them? How is that a punishment? And how is inflicting them upon border states not a punishment as well?
"Many questions remain unanswered: whether the migrants will stay in Massachusetts, whether DeSantis' move violated any state or federal laws"
Spoiler: No.
And you being perfectly fine with MV shipping them off kinda belies your "WON'T YOU THINK ABOUT THE ILLEGALS!?!?" schtick. One group has demanded border security. One group demands open borders and claims to want illegals. Let the latter group take them in and deal with the expense.
"But it's clear that these are people who could build better lives here and contribute to American communities if given the chance. Instead, DeSantis, at taxpayer expense, used these Venezuelan asylum seekers—who weren't even in Florida in the first place—to carry out a political stunt, weaponizing victims of a regime he's vigorously denounced."
Are you arguing that DeSantis kidnapped them other states?
What states were they in if not in Florida?
And, again, no problems with the "sanctuary cities" getting rid of them ASAP while dealing with a miniscule fraction of what border states have to deal with.
Hypocrite. Stop writing about immigration because you're full of shit and do not believe a word of what you're typing.
Furthermore, neither economic ruin nor humanitarian turmoil are grounds for asylum.
Which is why 98% of the asylum claims are rejected.
and yet, they come - we let them in - and they never leave!
^^^This x1000%^^^
Asylum is NOT granted for economic reasons! and yet here they come, we let them in, and they never leave even if their asylum request is refused!
Thank you for the takedown.
This is not an honest take. Reason has jumped the shark.
They had a chance to do some honest take... and held their tongue. Until they got a take that it was all about disrespecting the poor immigrants by using them as punishment.
They got savaged.
So take 2. It is all about using victims of communism!!!
These are such obviously dishonest takes. You cannot write them and actually believe "yes! This really exposes the truth!!!"
Instead the process was:
1. DeSantis just did a master stroke political move! We must stop him from getting credit!
2. We must condemn him! Transporting illegals is wron... what? Biden does it?
3. Sending illegals to Martha's Vinyard is exactly like the Holocaust!
No dice??
4. Using Illegals for punishment is wrong!!!
(What, we sound like a bunch of hypocrites?)
5. DeSantis kidnapped innocent migrants!
(Wait, they went voluntarily?)
6. DeSantis lied and defrauded them!!
(What... they have signed... oh)
7. DeSantis hurts victims of communism!!!
Meanwhile, before this article could even be written, Martha's Vinyard had already figured out how to get rid of those dirty immigrants, following through on this promise to do just that:
https://twitter.com/theh2/status/1570499501756121089
The only illegals ever dropped off in Martha's Vinyard, the wealthiest and most powerful leftist enclave in the US.... and they wiped their hands of them in hours.
That is how you know this isn't just a bad hot take.
They are liars and shills for the DNC
Our beloved Reason, voice of liberty is dead. It is being puppeteered like a zombie corpse to do the bidding of the establishment and the DNC. They are everything they used to rail against.
Fatality.
Sadly it does seem you're correct. The mask has been removed, and it's pretty much impossible to ignore it now.
The mask is off in so many ways, from the top to the bottom. I fully expect the next statements from the White House or Congress to end with a smirk, and a dare for anyone to resist.
It’s all KMW. She’s all about the click$. And nothing gets clicks from libertarians like this kind of irrational nonsense.
KMW is trolling all of us with this crap. And we keep coming back for more. Every comment is another coin falling into their till.
The least you can do is not donate and avoid their advertisers.
Clicks from readers are not paying their bills.
This is them going all in for the messaging desired by their benefactors.
They are shills.
Clicks determine advertising rates. Ads pay their salaries and perks.
Or maybe you haven’t noticed the explosion of popups and trailing ads.
I rarely come to reason but curiosity gets me and I regret it every time. It's basically shit
I think it's more the Koch agenda than the DNC. As it happens they are in perfect harmony.
Don't forget comparing the illegal aliens to "trash".
"and they wiped their hands of them in hours"
By calling in the National Guard at better than 2:1 ratios. 125 guardsmen to deal with 50 illegal aliens.
"Florida officials "very intentionally chose not to call ahead to any single office authority on Martha's Vineyard so that even the most basic human needs arrangements could be made," Rachel Self, an immigration attorney, shared with reporters on Martha's Vineyard. "Ensuring that no help awaited the migrants at all was the entire point."
Didn't the same fucking thing happen when Chicago shipped out a bunch of them to the outlying exburbs?
Look, if even sanctuary cities and states don't want these people, that's a pretty clear indication we need a 1920s-style moratorium on immigration for about 10 years to let things settle down.
Exactly. If Martha's Vineyard can't handle four dozen then what about El Paso?
The truth this episode reveals is exactly why the Readon writers are so opposed to it.
Oh well, turns out the Democrat led city of El Pado has been sending busloads of illegals to NYC for some time now.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/democrats-in-el-paso-are-also-busing-migrants-to-nyc/ar-AA11WO2O
Poor Fiona must be too mortified by this to comment.
Rather than welcoming the people fleeing one of the world's most repressive and punishing regimes, DeSantis chose to weaponize them. This group included at least four kids younger than 9.
As opposed to a political stunt that sent a kid back to a communist shithole?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/11/25/federal-agents-seized-year-old-elin-gonzlez-gunpoint-custody-battle-raged-months/
Is Fiona arguing for family separations?
Liberal balloon cities: "We're sanctuary cities, unlike those racist bigots on the border we invite illegal immigrants and will help them, because we're good and wise and virtuous and you're racists!"
Struggling border states: "Okay, were dealing with hundreds of thousands. Here's fifty, start sanctuarying"
Liberal balloon cities: "Nooooooo... we're poor and helpless and can't handle them you racists"
Meanwhile, at Reason(s) Magazine: "RoN DeSaNtiS WeAPoNizES VicTiMs oF CoMmUniSm BY SeNDiNG TheM tO A towN fULL oF VirTU0us biLLiOnAIReS.
Alternate headline.
If Democrats love communism, why don't they send buses down to Florida to transport the proletariat to their paradise?
George Orwell:
They don't like immigrants, they like the idea of them.
This explains why Orwell shunned the Vineyard to summer on more private Scottish isles
It’s all Virtue signaling by self-righteous harridans.
At this point, nobody could possibly be peddling this line of bullshit in good faith.
Why do we even bother to read this crap? If the editors were in a dunk tank, there might be some point, but this is just trolling on a massive scale.
I'm surprised so many people dod read past the headline with Fiona on the byline.
I just hurry through for the comments without making eye contact.
I knew Reason was on the wrong side of history on immigration, but I never knew they were such huge bleeding gashes about it.
Next headline:
THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!
DeSantis is providing transportation to places that are welcoming to these migrants and won't enforce immigration law against them, and the migrants are voluntarily taking him up on the offer. Supposedly, everybody is getting what they want.
Weaponization means hurting someone. Who exactly is getting hurt in this?
Furthermore, it's not America's job to help "victims of communism" or any other people who come from nations whose economies have failed.
Weaponization means hurting someone. Who exactly is getting hurt in this?
The article is literally making the unwitting argument that the migrants are the 'weapons' landing in blue cities. When you drop weapons on someone, you don't cry for the poor, obliterated artillery shell, you cry for whom it landed on. The article is admitting that the presence of migrants is hurting the blue cities.
If the presence of these migrants is hurting the blue cities, then that means everything every sane person who's ever uttered a criticism of unchecked migration is right.
Some leftist on the teevee actually made the analogy to DeStantis dumping his trash on someone else's lawn.
This is just like what happened with Dobbs. The leftists temporarily lost their conditioning and started arguing from the position that only women could get pregnant, before it kicked back in and they started spouting the same NPC talking points about "birthing persons."
The same thing is going to happen here--the leftists are so shocked that a Republican wouldn't just sit there and take it, they're revealing how much they despise being around immigrants who aren't acting like peon slave labor for them. Once they get their druthers again, they'll go back to spouting about "no human being is illegal" from their White Leftist Rosary.
Democrat hypocrites are being hurt by it.
Further, as Reason continues to sing the praises of unchecked immigration without bothering to discuss any of the mind-crushingly obvious realities of our economic system, then Reason is becoming de-facto libertarian Marxist. They're no longer have any traits of 'right-leaning' libertarianism (the kind that believes in private property), they're solely focused on the right of an individual to "do whatever he wants while being economically supported by the collective".
I agree. I would point out that there are never any meaningful differences between "(adjective) socialism" and just plain socialism. People like to stick adjectives like "democratic" and "libertarian" in there to pretend that it's something different.
Well, this has been discussed before... and it's Friday, and I'm about to start drinking, but there is a type of "Libertarian Marxism". It claims to be the pure, utopian vision of Marxism. The state has faded away, and we all live in a collective anarchy wherin to each according to his need, from each according to his ability. Blah. Blah... blah-dee blah. Things are decided democratically, and because of the lack of a state apparatus, there is no need for prisons, police, enforcement etc. Very libertarian!
Again, I'm not arguing in favor of it (because it doesn't work) I'm merely recognizing it as a specifically defined philosophy.
As I have been saying, "libertarian Marxism" is indistinguishable from "communist utopia". I.e., it isn't "libertarian" at all.
But the problem with that vision of a future society is that it is logically inconsistent. A society in which the state has faded away does not maximize "freedom to act". Far from it, a society in which the state has faded away is going to be considerably more restrictive in terms of choices available to individuals.
It's a rhetorical tick reserved for attempts to sway the inserted group towards the ways of socialism by making sophist comparisons. No more, no less.
Look, I merely explained the philosophy in a short comment. If you want to argue against (utopian) libertarian marxism, take it up with Emma Goldman.
Essentially, it's not my intent to argue against the contradictions of... "social anarchism" sometimes referred to as "democratic anarchism", but it is a thing. It's a thing that won't work because of its contradictions, but it's a thing.
"they're solely focused on the right of an individual to "do whatever he wants while being economically supported by the collective".
Kinder
Gentler
Statism
The governor flew dozens of Venezuelans to Martha's Vineyard at taxpayer expense, even though they fled a regime he says "is responsible for countless atrocities."
Great job, Fiona. That's how you non a sequitur. Unless you think a free trip to Martha's Vineyard counts as another atrocity.
If you crave atrocity, come to the Vineyard for the deer season.
I'm pleased to see Koch-funded libertarians continue their quest to make sure Liz Cheney, rather than DeSantis, is the 2024 GOP nominee.
With #TrumpDocuments guaranteeing Drumpf will be in prison by then, it really is a two-person race. And it's well known that Mr. Koch would like to see the GOP return to its early 2000s neocon incarnation — and what better way to accomplish that than by crowning Dick Cheney's daughter the de facto head of the party?
#LizCheney2024
OBL, I’m shocked at such a vanilla comment. Where’s your spunk, man?
I don’t know about him, with Kamala, it’s typically in her face, the small of her back, or maybe her stomach.
ji
This is embarrassing.
You should have read the morning links before posting this.
What an idiot.
No one's ever accused the "editors" here of being smart.
You all are completely missing the point. There's nothing wrong with bussing or flying people to sanctuary cities.
The problem is lying to all of them and tricking them into going to a different place. The problem is falsifying their home addresses and making them report to states on the other side of the country to avoid deportation days later. You guys are still against force and fraud right?
Call up the place you are sending migrants and let them know they are on the way. Tell the migrants where they are actually going. Don't falsify their documents illegally.
I fully support migrant relocation to sanctuary cities (I even live in one), but this is a seriously fucked up way of going about it. That's why even though I support the policy, I find the process indefensible. And that's why it looks to rational people like DeSantis is using them as a weapon. If he actually just wanted to help, he wouldn't use lies and deception and surprise.
If he actually just wanted to help, he wouldn't use lies and deception and surprise.
Surprise, there are a million migrants at your door, Texas!
Surprise, Virginia, some of them are coming your way!
If you declare yourself a sanctuary city, then migrants entering your city in any way imaginable are not a surprise, they are expected.
If you are surprised by migrants showing up in Texas, you are an idiot.
The point of sending them to Martha's vineyard was literal surprise. And it worked. Everyone was surprised.
I get the point DeSantis is trying to make. I even agree with the point he's trying to make. But he is USING humans without their honest consent to make that point. It's evil, unless you are machiavelian enough to think the ends justify the means.
The discussion has been going long enough for this to be not just ignorant, but dishonest.
The federal government has been doing exactly this in small towns across the country since the democrats came back in power. By the hundreds of thousands.
Bonus dishonest complaint... the Republican governors have the receipts. Biden not only didn't ask anyone if they wanted to get dumped in Iowa... he hid the fact they were doing it.
So it takes a special level of useful idiot make that argument at this point.
Precisely.
Good when our guys do it, bad when your guys do it. Pure hypocrisy.
God forbid republicans fight back.
Huh? These migrants don't want to be in a little shithole border town in Texas; I mean who does?
They want to be in New York or Chicago or Boston. They are making an informed choice.
"board this flight to Boston! We free work set up for you!"
"surprise you are in MV and nothing is here for you"
That's not consent. I fully agree Chicago is a better place to send them. We have the resources here. And great migrant populations to help get settled into. And it's worked that way a ton. They've told people they are being sent to Chicago, and they come here. Again.... I fully accept and support the bussing of migrants. Just not this absurb MV stunt.
Ahh. A Chicago leftist who can't bother to investigate his claims and realize he is ignorant.
Abbot and DeSantis are telling them where they are going. They have signed consent forms.
Any other lies you want to base your narratives on?
Dude... Everyone that disagrees with you isn't a leftist. I was born in Texas, raised in Nebraska, and moved here to trade cattle at the CME.
I am not remotely leftist. But you won't find me next to you on the right either. Try reasoning in more than one dimension.
Oh. You just repeat their lies and narratives without inspection because you're a libertarian?
Why do you keep repeating that they were kidnapped? Why keep claiming they were defrauded into going?
You have known they have the receipts on this since before this article was published. So why die on that hill? It is not even an honest critique.
The anti Rothbard name screams cosplay libertarian, aka leftist.
You may not be a leftist, but your points are vapid and plenty fucking stupid. Every argument against DeSantis' actions is buncombe, easily disproven, and just throwing everything at the wall, hoping something lands.
Their spluttering is entertaining, though.
You live in Chicago and didn't know your mayor sent her refugees into the suburbs?
Thank you for confirming what a nasty bigot and racist you actually are.
You mean Chicago, where Lightfoot (D-Beetlejuice) decided to ship them, without warning nor consultation to the suburbs, such as Burr Ridge?
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/burr-ridge-mayor-fires-back-at-lightfoot-pritzker-after-migrants-were-secretly-bussed-to-his-village
The same Illinois that declared a disaster and called out the national guard?
https://news.wttw.com/2022/09/14/gov-pritzker-signs-disaster-declaration-mobilizes-national-guard-care-immigrants-arriving
This is the same asshole governor and mayor who've claimed Illinois and Chicago are a sanctuary state and city, respectively.
The point of sending them to Martha's vineyard was literal surprise. And it worked. Everyone was surprised.
If you declare yourself a sanctuary city, and offer them free healthcare, rental assistance and other public benefits, don't be surprised. If you're surprised, then you're a lying sack of shit who made those declarations believing no migrants would, actually, you know, show up.
It was... as reason calls it: A stunt.
You may have some right to seek asylum here (falsely I might add) but you don't have a right to stay anywhere you like while waiting for that to play out.
if they don't like it then they shouldn't have violated the law entering our country. zero sympathy here.
How many of these migrants call up El Paso and let them know they're coming?
Let these northern 'sanctuary cities' sneering about how much more tolerant they are deal with unexpected waves of undocumented immigrants. Most border towns see more than fifty arrivals every day. MV gets 50 unexpected guests and they have to call in the National Guard.
So what happened was that Martha's Vineyard did just that and proved how tolerant and compassionate they are.
Martha's Vineyard expelled the migrants and sent them to a military base on the mainland.
I don't think they are living up to their pretenses of being "compassionate".
So unless those people took them into their houses, you get to call Democrats hypocrites?
This is common logic with you idiots, but it doesn't get any better: If you're an asshole, you're an asshole. What Democrats do or don't do doesn't absolve you of your assholery. Even if they actually were bleeding hypocrites, you'd still be an asshole.
There were over 100 empty hotel rooms yesterday. They put them in a shelter then sent them out of town the next day.
Compassion!
Yes. You call for others to take care of them but then cry when asked to step up to the plate yourselves. Typical progressive. You want your cake and eat it to and bitch when you are asked to live by the same rules others are forced to by your policies.
Also... wealthiest and most liberal enclave in America.
Any one of the homeowners in that town could have hosted all 50 people out of pocket change.
They have been exposed as hypocrites.
What is Ron DeSantis's immigration policy?
He's a governor, so he doesn't have one. Immigration is a federal issue. Fuck you're stupid.
So why is he interfering with it?
He isnt. The federal government doesn't give them do not travel orders dummy.
Aren't you embarrassed by your lack of knowledge on immigration, Tony?
Why should this be any different for Tony?
I don't come here much but man you are really ignorant
There was a time I thought you had some level of intelligence and understanding. But damn, you have flushed that all away posting the most superficial pseudo-intellectualism, which is always backed up by bizarre levels of ignorance.
Tony, just stick with sucking cock, it doesn’t appear you have any other skills. Your comments here are ongoing proof of that.
They could have paid for accommodations on Martha's Vineyard.
In fact, those eight and nine figure net-worth individuals didn't do shit, other than call the federal government to get rid of people who intruded on their little billionaire enclave.
You're right: nothing absolves me of having been an asshole Democrat for most of my life. Fortunately, I figured out what a bunch of assholes the Democrats were a few years ago and left. I think I should get some credit for that.
You and me both NOYB2 ....I'm a reformed sinner
The federal government covering Massachusetts costs for illegals (on a federal military base) when it's forcing conservative states to cover the costs. It's part of the transfer of wealth from red states to blue states, by forcing red states to shoulder the cost of immigrants who've no place to sleep, have no money, and want their free health care. It's also why Biden is flying the immigrants to red states, and you don't see the reporting on it, because Biden is keeping it secret as possible, and the MSM colludes with the government.
Yes. They proved precisely how tolerant and compassionate they are. In less than a day they rounded then up and deported them.
Not voluntarily either.
So how tolerant and compassionate they are is zero. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
They are hypocrites and liars, just as everyone expected.
But DeSantis and Abbott expelled them first. Just explain the logic here more carefully.
The governors have signed forms of consent. They rounded up nobody. CNN even interviewed the bussed migrants who said they were willing to go on the busses.
Do you leftist just constantly rely on lies, or just revel in ignorance?
Because your policies forced Abbott and De Santis to deal with them. So they dealt with them by giving them free transportation to areas that claim they're a good thing, now those areas are bitching about it. It's very telling.
Dude... how many people are operating that sock? No one person could spout as many contradictory things in such a short timespan.
Sarc and spb accept your challenge.
The pride in his idiocy is what is most astounding.
No, socialism expelled them. Socialism invited them in, and then when it saw the bill, re-expelled them.
No, they didn't. They offered them free transportation and the migrants took it.
Tony. Here are migrants at MV thanking DeSantis.
https://twitter.com/RealMacReport/status/1570877407116263424
Tony. Is this some of your liberal compassion?
“It’s like me taking my trash out and just driving to different areas where I live and just throwing my trash there,” said Lefeld, a Venezuelan American who’s a founding member of the Casa Venezuela Dallas foundation, which helps recent refugees.
You could charitably assume trash, in this metaphor, refers to bureaucratic bother.
Of course it's certainly not any way I would speak, but I also don't work for an organization that provides aid to refugees, so perhaps it was simply unfortunate phrasing.
Check back with the propaganda mill that forcefed you that quote to make sure they got it right and that all liberals everywhere believe migrants are like trash.
Can’t be sure where Jesse saw it, but I saw it in a tweet from NBC news linking to their own report. But go ahead and wave it away as right wing propaganda. It fits in with the way you conducted yourself during this discussion.
Do you people actually not understand that some rando somewhere saying something doesn't prove anything about anything?
It was posted by NBC. Jesus, you're so bad at this.
Squirrel, he only has an 85 IQ. By his own admission.
I wouldn't have even thought it as high as 85.
Check back with the propaganda mill that forcefed you that quote to make sure they got it right and that all liberals everywhere believe migrants are like trash.
Forcefed? It's a literal statement that was freely expressed.
Some people (Abbott, DeSantis et al.) said they didn't want to cater long term for illegal immigrants, and sent illegal immigrants away so they didn't have to cater long term for illegal immigrants. This is consistent (saying one thing and doing that same thing)
Other people said where they lived was a sanctuary for illegal immigrants, that such immigrants were welcome to come and live where the nice people were, and that they would be shielded from people who wanted to send them away. But the first thing these people did when a group off illegal immigrants arrived where they lived was send them away. This is hypocritical (saying one thing and then doing the exact opposite)
So what happened was that Martha's Vineyard did just that and proved how tolerant and compassionate they are.
So then we're back in agreement, nothing was "weaponized" they're in a better place, everyone wins. IT's a win-win-win-win...win-...win...win solution.
So what happened was that Martha's Vineyard did just that and proved how tolerant and compassionate they are.
Martha's Vineyard called fifty immigrants showing up unannounced a humanitarian crisis, when border towns across the South see more than that on a daily basis and are told there's no crisis whatsoever going on. Martha's Vineyard couldn't call the National Guard fast enough to shoo these icky brown people away. But a couple of them got hugs before being shipped out. So compassionate!
These people can't admit when a Republican does something bad. It would contradict their primary religious tenet: "Republicans are always right."
These are some seriously cheap dates.
I don't see what "bad" you think has been done. These migrants don't want to be in a little shithole border town in Texas, they want to be in New York and Chicago.
It's bad to use human beings as political props.
If there are too many migrants in DeSantis's state, he should spend that money he just wasted building housing for them, treating their medical conditions, and facilitating their asylum claims.
Abbot shipped busloads of them to the vice president's house. Remember how a couple weeks ago you were incensed about political stunts outside of important people's houses?
How were they props? They willingly board the busses and planes.
How are they more props than 2 million promised asylum then denied months later?
If there are too many migrants in Martha's Vinyard, they should spend that money tjey just wasted rounding up and deporting them building housing for them, treating their medical conditions, and facilitating their asylum claims.
God help, you are terrible at this. At least read up on the issue before you try to troll.
I don't know if it is worse if you are getting paid to do this, or if you do this for free. Neither option looks good.
"facilitating their asylum claims."
Pretty sure SCOTUS precedent states that states have zero input on immigration policy, including asylum claims.
So, why should they do something illegal to help Biden?
Sending people willingly to other locales is perfectly legal.
"Abbot shipped busloads of them to the vice president's house. Remember how a couple weeks ago you were incensed about political stunts outside of important people's houses?"
Any threats involved? Slight difference, son.
DeSantis isn't doing that. He offered them trips to where they wanted to go and they took it.
Why should Florida taxpayers pay for housing and medical care for illegal migrants?
Why should Florida taxpayers "facilitate" fraudulent asylum claims?
You can't know they're fraudulent until you process them, silly.
So your position is that Ron DeSantis improperly spent taxpayer money to send 50 migrants on a little vacation to Martha's Vineyard. Okay.
I just didn't realize republicans' new migrant policy was to send them on lovely vacations. No wonder I was so confused.
The asylum claims are all invalid, in most cases simply based on country of origin, and in all cases due to the fact that they entered through Mexico.
No, my position is that they are unwanted in Florida and he sent them to places that provide them sanctuary and where the migrants actually want to go. Win-win-win.
Unwanted by whom in Florida?
By the people of Florida, as represented by their duly elected government.
So majorities get to forcibly remove other groups of human beings?
So much freedom my asshole hurts.
Yes, a majority of citizens can forcibly remove non-citizens from their country. That is a fundamental human right.
You know what is not a human right? Entering countries that you are not a citizen of because you want to have a better life.
Are you really this ignorant or is your simplistic and incorrect contextualization purposeful?
Tony, you’re too stupid for this. Just go back to your glory hole.
It's bad to use human beings as political props.
I doubt you'll remember this tenet when a mass shooting happens and Team Blue uses the victims as political props, so I'll put it here for posterity.
Duly noted.
Exactly zero people are making this argument and it is irrelevant to any of the issues.
See this from last year https://www.npr.org/2021/04/15/987618530/why-the-u-s-government-is-dropping-off-migrants-in-rural-arizona-towns
The Biden administration has been dumping illegals in small towns since they got back in power.
In red states.
They did not ask or care where they wanted to go.
Your entire argument begins with substituting an entirely different reality and then arguing with that.
"We are dealing with the effects of the previous four years of the Trump administration's policy of cruelty and chaos," Romero says.
What do you propose they should have done instead? There was no more room in the detention camps. They have a legal right to claim asylum. At which point of this process do you suggest someone break the law?
This is why you are such a shit sock puppet.
Trump left with no massive immigration. No full detention camps.
Biden called the flood as he was elected. Said we are open, come on.
You have to have a head injury to buy into any of the lies you pedal. Nobody could possibly believe any of that. It has only been a couple of years.
So... stupid.
Does it occur to you that Trump's single biggest domestic policy priority being to treat migrants as dogshit might have something to do with any disparity?
Just so I'm clear on the logic, Joe Biden not being quite so cruel as Trump means he's to blame for people individually choosing to come to the US from other countries. Interesting political theory there. I'm wondering when the love of liberty comes in, but I'm sure it will.
Why are migrants bad?
Telling illegals lies about the asylum process is treating them dog shit. Knowing they are not valid claims. They cause illegal immigrants to spend thousands of dollars, increased migrant deaths, sexual assaults... all on false claims.
You dont give a shit about these people Tony.
He’s a sociopathic narcissist. He isn’t capable of caring about anyone but himself. The democrat party is the perfect place ever him.
You just pretended that illegal immigration was Trumps fault. Then you pretended not to know what to do about it. Then pretended that you only care about how they are treated here.... except you forgot that where we started was with Biden treating them like political pawns and Republicans skillfully demonstrating it... while making democrats demonstrate that they were lying about their sanctuary cities all along.
You are way at the bottom of a very dishonest hole. Best to just stop digging
I think people migrate for large-scale reasons out of the control of any politician.
Will any of you answer one of my fucking questions? I've answered all of yours.
Why are migrants bad?
So? That doesn't mean we have to accommodate them.
Because they are a drain on US taxpayers and are skipping the line ahead of legal immigrants.
So we both agree that the law should change to make immigration as free and open as possible. It would solve your problems.
Drain on US taxpayers is an odd criticism. All people in the US use its resources. Why do you deserve those resources over somebody else? Justify it morally if you can.
Not at all. Immigration should be restricted to people who are likely to make a net positive contribution.
I don't have to justify anything because I pay many times in taxes what I take in government resources. How about you?
And because I'm part of that minority of Americans who pays more in taxes than we consume in government services, I also have no qualms about using my political power to determine how that money is spent.
Again, your ignorance and lack of understanding is so monumental, I just can't believe it's not purposeful.
Trump talked tough about immigrants, saving hundreds of thousands from being fleeced by coyotes and thousands from dying in the desert.
Trump materially helped immigrants.
False claims of asylum are not legal, they just aren't prosecuted. It is knowing fraud.
Less than 10% of asylum claims are valid.
Try again. Biden is promising then 2+ years on the claims. Leftist groups teach illegals what to claim and then work to delay court hearings. That is far more harmful than what you accused the right of.
Fully implement expedited removal and remain in Mexico. Build the border wall. Harshly penalize employers that hire illegals. Harshly penalize people who use forged identity or visa documents. Deport people who are in the country without legal authorization. Among other things.
What do you propose they should have done instead?
Well since now we know that relocating them to wealthy, Democrat-run 'sanctuary cities' is both cruel and evil I guess secretly abandoning them in rural towns in Red states is the only humane thing to do.
Gah! I accidentally flagged your comment, which was just fine. This is clearly the first problem Reason has had with their otherwise flawless UI, and I am sure it will be fixed posthaste; but I apologize nonetheless.
I agree. Biden is terrible. Are you saying this is OK, or not? It's hard to tell. Or does it only matter which side is doing it?
Transporting willing people to where they ask to go? Just terrible.
Only one side has consistent principles. Only one side wants closed borders and doesn't want illegals, and by shipping them out is acting in line with that principle.
The other side wants open borders, and wants illegals, but imposes them on the other side. Furthermore, when they get the chance to act within the principles, they revolt at the thought and act completely inconsistently of their principles.
I'm not aware of any cases where migrants have been "lied to".
Why? Migrants show up unannounced in border towns, and Obama and Biden have been shipping them unannounced into rural communities.
I have no idea what you are trying to get at here. Illegal migrants don't have any "home addresses", and they regularly supply false information and don't show up to hearings. How is that DeSantis's fault?
Migrants show up unannounced at border towns because they are migrants and they can't teleport.
Since, during the pandemic, detention camps were at capacity, they had to go somewhere. What do you think should have been done to them? Be specific.
Surely you have an idea of what you'd do to refugees since you're being such a critic of the administration.
So, border states have to deal with them but no one else? Is that your stance? Really?
It's not my stance. I'll tell you my stance as soon as one of you tells me yours.
What do you think should be done to refugees to America?
First don't label all who cross the border illegally as refugees. Secure the border. Then make legal immigration easier. And zero tolerance after that for illegal crossing. Like I've stated multiple times. And you to have stated your policy when you bitch about Texas and Florida giving free transportation to affluent areas that claim to want them.
So comprehensive immigration reform. You'll be voting for Democrats, I presume?
No. Since the Democrats state make immigration easier and then secure the border. Note my priorities are secure the border and then make immigration easier.
I remember 1986 and the shit the Democrats pulled then. Won't be burnt again.
2006 compromise as well. Killed by Democrats.
You still haven't given us your immigration solution.
That was supposed to be to Tony, don't know why/how it ended up here.
Democrats passed the ACA (among other things), but they couldn't be bothered about immigration. They only care about it to the extent it can be used for campaign rhetoric and help them retain or grow political power.
Holy shit. Just stop. You sound ridiculous.
Maybe if I understood why I'm supposed to hate refugees, I wouldn't be ridiculous. Please explain.
Sanctuary cities seem to REALLY dislike them.
Like with a deep seated passion.
Just ask Lori Lightfoot (D-Beetlejuice) why she bused them out to the suburbs from Chicago, a sanctuary city.
Then why did they become sanctuary cities?
"Then why did they become sanctuary cities?"
Because they felt it would never be an issue they had to directly address.
I know, it is baffling that people might claim to support things that are irrelevant to them. Progressives do it all of the damned time.
To virtue signal. How can you honestly be this dumb?
You sound like a 1999 AI conversation bot.
Poorly done appeal to extremes; disingenuous hackery.
They aren't refugees to America. They are refugees. Where international laws say to find the first safe harbor country. Mexico is in this list.
We are not the world's welfare state.
I'm sure plenty of people choose to stay in Mexico. Some choose to go to the US. Why is that bad for me?
You imply that it's because they would somehow use up resources devoted to a welfare state you don't even support. But that's obviously ridiculous. The elderly and disabled are not the bulk of refugees here or anywhere else. The more of them who come, the more young people willing to work cheaply we have. It's a boon to the welfare state, which you don't support.
Why is it bad for you? Hmm... go read up ok these border towns and the costs endured. You think it isnt bad because you aren't bearing the costs. If you were youd have a different view. See Chicago, d.c., and now m.v. over less than 0.005% of the problem entering their realm.
Your true compassion shown. Fuck other people who faces the cost, Tony is fine with bearing none of it.
False assertion: "You imply that it's because they would somehow use up resources devoted to a welfare state you don't even support." All American taxpayers support the welfare state willingly or not. Taxes ($) and resources (labor) are diverted to this irregardless of desire.
Well, I don't believe in refusing basic services to anyone who needs them because I'm not a bigoted monster.
Nevertheless, since migrants skew young, they are nothing but a boon to the welfare state. Kick them all out, then we might have trouble affording one. Which you don't support.
Ask Sweden how things are going with unfettered immigration.
With luck, Pennsylvania will soon be ‘unFettered’.
What do you think should be done to refugees to America?
They should be shoved up your ass and up the asses of scum like you.
Fucking Venezuelans voted for socialism when they freely voted for Chaves and when they may or may not have voted for Maduro . Madura is as legitimate a president as Biden is. And the opposition party in Venezuela is also socialist!
Fuck them, they and the Nicaraguans need to be repatriated to their home countries.
No, they show up unannounced because
A) the Biden administration very publicly announced they will not enforce immigration law and secure the border
And b) the Biden administration ships them from detention centers to small towns all over the region .... unannounced...
Here they are bragging about it last spring
https://www.npr.org/2021/04/15/987618530/why-the-u-s-government-is-dropping-off-migrants-in-rural-arizona-towns
After they snapped their fingers and undid all the Trump horrorshow of a migration policy in an instant, I'm sure.
Again, your big complaint is that Biden isn't being vocally and physically cruel enough to people fleeing for their lives. Correct?
Well I'm glad we cleared that up.
You truly suck at this.
This is your Billy Madison thread.
You are just absolutely failing at every turn. Doesn't it hurt to be so pathetic and dishonest at the same time?
I'm fascinated by how much you've internalized the assumption that there are vast numbers of people who deserve to be imprisoned then sent back to the hellholes they were fleeing, categorized solely by where they were unlucky enough to be born.
Don't worry, I'm keeping the actual libertarian position nice and safe. Maybe one day you'll get back to it after you've built enough concentration camps for freedom.
Fall.
You gotta read more than one comment when you reply.
No single human could be this bad.
Do you guys have the comments on a feed or something? And random people are chosen to reply?
No human mind could so quickly forget 35 things and pretend they never happened. Even a small degree of pride in self would prevent that and would not allow such mind numbing stupid posts.
Only a discontinuous mind could accomplish this. I cannot believe any one person accomplished this Tony thread. Nobody is that insane, not even the lady arguing with the don't walk sign down the street.
Tony says countries ran by brown people are hell holes. After he criticized trump a few years ago for it.
Tony is truly a racist.
I don't know if it is racist or not.
It is pure partisan. It would argue that its mother is a space cucumber if that would contradict a point for the Republicans. It is pure. It is untainted by rational thought, ideology or ego. It has no sense of self.
It is partisanship personified.
It only lived to oppose. It reacts. It says up only when a republican says down. If a Democrat says east, and a libertarian says west, it says east... and west is evil.
It is skynet for the mentally challenged.
They are categorizing them that way by fleeing them to a country that shits on them as national policy. They must be pretty shitty. And it's going to get worse as the equator becomes uninhabitable.
I blame the Koch network for that more than most. Why don't we bus all climate refugees to his house? That fits all your labyrinthine requirements for an acceptable political stunt, I think.
Tony, this really is your Billy Madison thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQCU36pkH7c&ab_channel=justscrollingby%E3%83%84
Last I looked, Martha's Vineyard is further from the equator than Florida.
Funny how the ones constantly accusing everyone of being racists tend to be the biggest racists.
Your entire argument is giving cartels a billion a year to smuggle migrants, risk their lives, get raped, etc... all for a political attack on the gop.
Again, you dont give a shit about the illegal immigrants.
I have a baseline of empathy for all humans. The only ones I ever want to see harmed are those threatening my life and livelihood.
Deport Republicans, make room for the innocent families they are using as props.
No you do not. Because as soon as they effect you you reject them. As soon as they touch a Democrat sanctuary city you reject them.
You have no empathy. You only give away other peoples money.
You so desperately want liberals to be as nasty and racist as conservatives. Would that make it OK to be that way? Do you take all your moral cues from liberals?
They are far more racist. See them deporting a small number of migrants. See their attacks on any minority who leaves the DNC.
You are one of the biggest racists here.
Well, let's test it.
Black Little Mermaid. Thoughts?
You so desperately want liberals to be as nasty and racist as conservatives.
Of course they are. Just look at their heavily balkanized deep blue shitholes.
Black little mermaid is kind of like the immigration thing. Racially obsessed commies, actively trying to make everything about race to purposely stir up controversy. Then you throw minority actors under the bus and them as a shield for any and all actual criticisms the latest regurgitated garbage Disney or Hollywood barfs out.
Every neckbeard on the internet is suddenly a scholar of children's movies.
Democrats and progressives are not "liberals".
Most liberals these days are either independent or Republicans.
And I would want nobody to be as nasty and racist as Democrats or progressives.
So here is how you deal with this "crisis"
Step one... don't create it.
This was intentionally created by Biden. He went out of his way to call for mass illegal immigration, just like Obama did. He got it.
So, easy fix... don't do that.
Step 2... figure out what Trump was doing. Shocking, but Trump had largely fixed the problem outside the border. Deportations were actually way down. He squelched illegal immigration before it got here. Instead, Biden did the exact opposite of that.
See? The answer to your stupid dodge of a question was simple. It was obvious. And everyone knows it because *it just happened right here in real life!*
Why do I give a fuck where people live? You keep talking to me like I'm supposed to agree with you that it's better if we force innocent families to go back to the very places they were fleeing.
And then I'm supposed to praise Trump because his policy of turning the border into a string of concentration camps in order to appeal to bigots, to some degree, worked to deter migration?
Why don't we just nuke the whole country, make it shitty enough to guarantee nobody wants to come?
"Why do I give a fuck where people live? "
Then why the outrage over DeSantis sending illegals to MV per the approval of said illegals?
He genuinely makes it too easy.
It has to be more than one person running the sock. Nobody is this dumb.
I'm not outraged. I feel bad for the people he tried to abuse and humiliate. Otherwise, I'm glad it happened.
Most Americans aren't actually vicious hateful lunatics. Republicans are going to have to appeal to some of those normal people if they want to win elections. The more stunts like this, the better.
"I'm not outraged."
In this thread, you've compared this to kidnapping, called people supporting this "hateful lunatics", make comparisons of Biden's treatments of illegals to how Nazis handled Jews in the Holocaust...
Yup, cannot imagine how this could be viewed as you being outraged.
You are the worst at this.
And it is the dumbest of lies... losing, he says abuse and humiliate. Sending people to the most exclusive resort town anywhere in the Americas is abuse?
A 5 year old could do better.
They will have to put up with blue check marks on Martha’s Vineyard. That’s torture I don’t wish on anyone.
Then there's the absolute certainty that if all these migrants were Canadian instead, all you people would be in favor of treating them with some measure of humanity instead of abstractions to stand in the background of populist political ads.
If I were prone to outrage, that hypocrisy would trump all of them.
How is sending them willingly to wealthy enclaves promising them benefits inhumane again?
So your position is that Ron DeSantis misspent public dollars to send a handful of migrants on a lovely vacation?
Can I print that?
"Then there's the absolute certainty that if all these migrants were Canadian instead, all you people would be in favor of treating them with some measure of humanity instead of abstractions to stand in the background of populist political ads."
Tony: "You guys are hypocrites because...well I REALLY think you are".
When we call out sanctuary cities as being hypocritical, we have concrete examples.
You have your assumptions, which mean shit.
"So your position is that Ron DeSantis misspent public dollars to send a handful of migrants on a lovely vacation?"
Florida, with no lack of Democrat votes, voted to budget for this precise thing.
All 50 of them. Ken Burns says this is something Hitler would have done.
Progs really are selfish hypocritical assholes.
You've spent this entire thread complaining about them being sent to live in democratic strongholds. Lol.
The sending, not the arriving.
But by all means, please encourage Ron DeSantis to keep doing these stunts. After he's a private citizen again, we can meet back here and you can explain how heads of state forcing children to participate in their political ads against their will is a proper libertarian thing to happen.
"we can meet back here and you can explain how heads of state forcing children to participate in their political ads against their will is a proper libertarian thing to happen."
Like --- as you've ignored repeatedly here --- sending them all over the country in the middle of the night? You know, like the Democrats do. Happily.
Why would Democrats stage a political stunt in the middle of the night?
Like this?
https://www.foxnews.com/media/biden-shocks-viewers-hellish-red-background-polarizing-speech
That's what's called a speech.
I understand that you people have given up listening to things and are reduced to pointing out colors.
No Tony, it’s a political stunt using taxpayer funds.
If the rules are that you get to be a cunt if you can point to n opposing politician somewhere who was some fraction of a cunt too, then we have a long way to go before Biden matches Trump's cuntery. I'll let you know.
So, you change subject. Basically an admission that it was a stunt.
Msmbc news clip linked above has a reporter talking about them thanking DeSantis. Thoughts?
If they don't have a valid asylum claim (and almost none of them do), that is indeed better.
That's what Biden is doing, economically speaking.
Well they were leaving for some reason. As a libertarian, I don't feel it's any of my business where people go.
But tell me more about your brilliant plan to make the US so shitty for human beings that people would rather take their chances in Mexico.
Liar.
You said asylum.
That is a legal designation.
God help, you can't even remember what you said one comment earlier. Just stop. Call in someone who at least understands the issue. I get that DeSantis used their own words and deeds to construct a perfect trap, but at least an honest and interested person could hold an argument and advocate a position instead of a team.
I have two positions on every issue:
What policy I support given the realities of the world today.
What policy I support in a hypothetical utopia of my design.
Don't you?
I confess I'm woefully lacking in expertise on immigration policy, but that's OK because I know I can outsource the matter to good-faith politicians who, given the political opportunity, will make good policy using the ideas of real experts.
Republicans, by contrast, are treating human beings as political props and deliberately avoiding having any real policy position, same as they've done for half a century.
But if we're talking about my utopian libertarian position, I just can't justify borders at all. They were drawn by dead people.
No you have one policy, what does MSNBC and the DNC say.
I can see where you're confused. See, MSNBC, the Democrats, and I all live in a world where facts are not optional. They do not spew forth from the fat jowls of an orange-colored imbecile. So we're likely to agree about things much of the time.
I can see where you're confused. See, MSNBC, the Democrats, and I all live in a world where facts are not optional.
Not based on anything I've seen.
Not even close Tony. That you can say such things shows your sociopathy.
You've admitted prior youre not a libertarian.
The day I am childish enough to label myself with some -ism is the day my dementia has progressed to assisted-suicide levels.
I studied philosophy. Guess what? Nobody's figured it all out yet.
Just above:
Tony
September.16.2022 at 7:59 pm
Flag Comment Mute User
Well they were leaving for some reason. As a libertarian, I don't feel it's any of my business where people go.
Your dementia has been evident for years. I’m sure you can find help for your suicide.
As a US taxpayer, it is my business if they come to places where I have to pay for their social services, their kids' education, their healthcare.
That is actually pretty much the plan of the Democrats: to make the US so shitty that it is just like Europe. They have said so explicitly.
Oh yes, that shitty Europe.
You people have got to get out more.
I emigrated from Europe. Europe is a shithole, and it's getting worse.
Not every society can be as glittering and vibrant as Trump country.
Sadly, there is little in the US that's "vibrant and glittering" anymore. Democrats are really living up to their campaign promises of making the US as shitty as Europe, first under Obama, now under Biden, though Bush, Cheney, and McCain did their part as well.
It was never a condition of being turned away at our southern border that illegal immigrants go back to the places they were fleeing. The conditions were that they not enter our county until 1) we had the facilities and resources to deal with them, and 2) they comported with our laws.
We're not talking about "detention camps" left over from the Trump administration, we are talking about new arrivals under Biden. Literally: these people just walked across the border and even stated that the border is open in front of Kamala Harris' residence.
They should have been deported immediately by the federal government under expedited removal and remain-in-Mexico.
So you bitched about wearing a mask for hygiene reasons, yet you want to bring back emergency Covid border policy?
Do you understand that diseases are spread by germs and not the Spanish language?
So you admit that the vaccine mandate was a total sham since the illegal immigrants have no record of being vaccinated? Thank you!
What vaccine mandate?
The one many federally employees had or still have. The one that decimated the military, airline, and health care sectors. The one the rest of a were on the hook for in order to have a job before SCOTUS stepped in. The one you fully supported.
Oh you mean conditions of employment?
I'll sign your petition to start a union.
You are an incredibly disingenuous shitweasel. You would be so much more useful as fertilizer.
I have never bitched about wearing a mask for hygiene reasons.
Neither expedited removal nor remain-in-Mexico have anything to do with COVID.
Migrants show up unannounced at border towns because they are migrants and they can't teleport.
Nor can they teleport across the several countries who stood with their backs against the wall, making sure not to touch them as they passed through to arrive at the El Paso border.
Well, as Christ said, fuck the lepers, I'm afraid.
Youre not a Christian. Don't pretend to understand Christianity.
I grew up in it, but it wasn't long before I realized that stupid people can take a religion about helping society's outcasts and warp it into a white supremacist pro-rich fascist nightmare.
Like Martha’s Vineyard?
They sure don’t like poor brown people there, do they? Other than as Nannie’s, maids and gardeners of course.
So you actually don't understand Christianity at all then?
I understand that debates about its true meaning have turned countless millions into oceans of blood. But you claim to have figured it out at last?
It was never about "helping society's outcasts." That's why Christ said, "my kingdom is not of this world."
This one actually wasn't done by DeSantis himself, but I'm concert with the MV flight. DHS gave each of the migrants sent to Martha's vineyard a fake address in the US. Some as far away as Washington state. They have to report to the office nearest the fake address that dhs gave them by Monday or get deported.
Yes, this is dhs. And they are under Biden. So we can all get mad at Biden for this particularly evil stunt of you want. I don't care which side is being an ass hat, I will call them all out.
I'm sure you can cite an instance of this claim.
And when Biden's DHS gives fake addresses to illegal migrants, how is DeSantis committing fraud?
The Biden administration is giving them fake addresses because they don't want them to show up at their hearings. And the Biden administration has no intention of deporting them.
The illegals are signing consent waivers telling them where they are going.... try to keep up.
"Call up the place you are sending migrants and let them know they are on the way."
As Biden has done literally dozens of times? Oh wait, he has not. Repeatedly. Screw niceties.
You want to be a sanctuary? Then fucking be a sanctuary.
"If he actually just wanted to help, he wouldn't use lies and deception and surprise."
Why should he want to help? He said, quite openly, he does not want illegals here. Those cities have, even more openly, said they do. He gave them what they asked for.
And showed them to be sheer hypocrites. He needs to continue doing so in a non-stop loop. Send them all to sanctuary cities and force those preening assholes to live up to their self-professed ideals.
ALL of this could EASILY be fixed, if ONLY we would MANDATE that ALL humanoids (including illegal sub-humans) should be FORCED to buy magazines!!! Right, damikesc??!?!
Hey Damiksec, damiskec, and damikesc, and ALL of your other socks…
How is your totalitarian scheme to FORCE people to buy Reason magazines coming along?
Free speech (freedom from “Cancel Culture”) comes from Facebook, Twitter, Tik-Tok, and Google, right? THAT is why we need to pass laws to prohibit these DANGEROUS companies (which, ugh!, the BASTARDS, put profits above people!)!!! We must pass new laws to retract “Section 230” and FORCE the evil corporations to provide us all (EXCEPT for my political enemies, of course!) with a “UBIFS”, a Universal Basic Income of Free Speech!
So leftist “false flag” commenters will inundate Reason-dot-com with shitloads of PROTECTED racist comments, and then pissed-off readers and advertisers and buyers (of Reason magazine) will all BOYCOTT Reason! And right-wing idiots like Damikesc will then FORCE people to support Reason, so as to nullify the attempts at boycotts! THAT is your ultimate authoritarian “fix” here!!!
“Now, to “protect” Reason from this meddling here, are we going to REQUIRE readers and advertisers to support Reason, to protect Reason from boycotts?”
Yup. Basically. Sounds rough. (Quote damikesc)
(Etc.)
See https://reason.com/2020/06/24/the-new-censors/
(And Asshole Extraordinaire will NEVER take back its' totalitarian bullshit!!!! 'Cause Asshole Extraordinaire is already PERFECT in every way!!!)
This (above damikesc quote) is a gem of the damnedest dumbness of damikesc! Like MANY “perfect in their own minds” asshole authoritarians around here, he will NEVER take back ANY of the stupidest and most evil things that he has written! I have more of those on file… I deploy them to warn other readers to NOT bother to try and reason with the most utterly unreasonable of the nit-wit twits here!
Meds, Sqrlsy, meds. You need to take them rather badly.
InsaneTrollLogic, do they make ANY meds that will control your EVIL totalitarian power-lust?
"Mentally ill", my ass! Whoever disagrees with totalitarians is "mentally ill"! That makes YOU just like the communist totalitarian assholes of the USSR who used psychiatry to punish political dissidents, asshole!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry_in_the_Soviet_Union#:~:text=During%20the%20leadership%20of%20General,that%20contradicted%20the%20official%20dogma.
Fucker, I’m about as anti authoritarian as they come.
Yet you chime in to defend an authoritarian asshole who has gone on the record... And will NOT take it BACK... As saying that people should be FORCED to buy magazines, so as to make up for ANOTHER set of authoritarian asshole policies that said authoritarian asshole advocates!!! WHY, InsaneTrollLogic, WHY?!? Could it possibly be... Because YOU, too,are an authoritarian asshole?
Anecdotal evidence of 'force, fraud' use of lies, deception and surprise is not conclusive. Critical thinkers wait until hard evidence, such as the paperwork, or unedited video of interviews prior to signing the paperwork, surfaces. You are not a critical thinker.
Some wit suggested extending the program to include paroled convicts.
I second the motion!
For fuck sake, Fiona says illegals are a good thing now she's crying that De Santis and Abbott are sending them to her favored places rather than having to deal with them. Which is it bitch?
Why are they a bad thing? Be specific.
Why is shipping them to Martha's Vineyard a bad thing? Why does Florida and Texas have to deal with them and not other states? Come on, if it's a good thing to have them in Florida why not Martha's vineyard? It seems your question is more appropriate for you to ask about all the Democratic ran sanctuary cities that are now raising a fuss rather than condemning Abbot and De Santis. You claim you want them, he was just helping them out and now you're crying like a bitch.
If they're a good thing in Florida and Texas, why not New York and Massachusetts? You seem to only want them around if someone else has to deal with them, but as soon as you have to deal with them you cry like a bitch.
Answer my fucking question.
I did. By asking you a reverse. I showed your hypocrisy. You obviously think they're a bad thing or you wouldn't be bitching about them being given free transportation to areas that claim to want them. It's obvious that you and all progressives think they're a bad thing when they show up on your doorstep. Otherwise why bitch about this. Your hypocrisy is showing.
It doesn't matter if I am or am not a hypocrite. I asked you to explain why refugees are bad. Bad to whom, and bad in what way?
Be specific, then I'll engage your other terrible logic.
Those expenses that those sanctuary cities are bitching about?
Florida and Texas have to deal with exponentially more of it. BECAUSE of the bullshit residents of those locales vote for.
So, let them suffer the consequences of their vote. Easy to be pro-sanctuary when it will never impact you. The MOMENT it does...they give up the ghost on that.
Sanctuary cities by definition welcome these migrants. That's not the problem. The problem is a politician kidnapping children and forcing them to participate in a political ad for him.
I don't care which cities these poor people end up in as long as Ron DeSantis ends up in prison. Deal?
"Sanctuary cities by definition welcome these migrants. That's not the problem."
...except they very much do not. Ship them elsewhere as quickly as they possibly can while bitching and moaning incessantly.
"The problem is a politician kidnapping children and forcing them to participate in a political ad for him."
There are signed documents from their "parents" approving them being sent to MV. So, clearly, not kidnapping.
Now, do these forms exist when Biden sends them all over the place at night? I have never seen one, but maybe you have.
"I don't care which cities these poor people end up in as long as Ron DeSantis ends up in prison. Deal?"
Yes, you're a Fascist. We got that a long while ago.
So it's bad if some cities deport migrants but fantastic policy if another one deports migrants, distinguished I suppose by the political party of their mayors?
Maybe sanctuary city designations are pure political stunts. Why the fuck do I care? At least that doesn't involve hurting anyone. Hypocrisy is not worse than hurting human beings. Say it a thousand times until it sticks.
You skipped over the country consent forms. Why?
Voluntary consent*
"So it's bad if some cities deport migrants but fantastic policy if another one deports migrants, distinguished I suppose by the political party of their mayors?"
One locale deals with hundreds to thousands.
The other...had 50.
It is the same thing, really.
Now, true, the place that got 50 is one of the richest cities in America, a city that is apparently so greedy and selfish that taking care of poor illegals is just a bridge too far. Their GoFundMe to pay for them (for 36 hrs and the city being, again, laden with incredibly wealthy people. Comically wealthy) was a lovely touch.
"Maybe sanctuary city designations are pure political stunts. Why the fuck do I care? At least that doesn't involve hurting anyone. Hypocrisy is not worse than hurting human beings. Say it a thousand times until it sticks."
How, PRECISELY, were they harmed? Examples. They were sent, for free, to one of the nicest and richest locales in the country. A locale that discussed, ad nauseum, how much they wanted them to be there.
Explain the harm. Please.
I'm not going to justify Ron DeSantis's political stunt for you. Maybe you'd like to give it a shot?
"I'm not going to justify Ron DeSantis's political stunt for you. Maybe you'd like to give it a shot?"
YOU brought up harm. Not me, you.
Quote, from you: "Maybe sanctuary city designations are pure political stunts. Why the fuck do I care? At least that doesn't involve hurting anyone. Hypocrisy is not worse than hurting human beings."
Now, perhaps you do not read your posts carefully. Who knows? But YOU brought it up and I am asking for a simple example of what you're referring to here in your laughably melodramatic way.
Maybe sanctuary city designations are pure political stunts. Why the fuck do I care? At least that doesn't involve hurting anyone.
Leftist shits: "We stand with immigrants as a sanctuary!"
Immigrants: "Hello."
Leftist shits: "Good heavens! Brown people?! Call the National Guard!"
You're a libertarian right? Seems leftist mayors proclaiming their towns are sanctuaries are in fact frauds.
By definition Chicago and MV expelled those immigrants within 48 hours.
I picture you stamping your feet like an eight year old girl while typing those last two sentences.
They welcome them? Yeah, and then ship them right out, just as Lori Lightfoot did.
There was a specific answer to your question of why they are a bad thing. You still have not responded as to why they are a good thing, but only in Texas, Florida and Arizona. Could you to that hypocrit?
I dispatched with the welfare rationalization on account of its obvious logical flaws.
We could always pretend that math works and immigrants aren't a drain on any resources, for the sake of argument.
Open borders then, right? Or do you have some other excuse?
You aren't showing any logic. Yes, you're a hypocrite because your crying about shipping them to areas that claim to want them and also calling anyone who disagrees with you inhuman. You're hypocrisy is so blatant it's not even funny. You are dehumanizing these immigrants you say are a good thing. Because if you really thought they were human you wouldn't cry about giving them free transportation to areas that claim to want them.
I'm not crying. I explained my position upthread. It has no room in it for kidnapping or lying or concentration camps for that matter, so I fail to see how I can be a hypocrite about any of this.
You're still not answering my question. It's not a gotcha. It's not irrelevant. It's the central premise of this entire discussion. Why won't you just say?
Nobody says they are a problem. DeSantis was sharing the wealth with a city that desperately claimed to want them. It'd be selfish, really, for Florida and Texas to NOT share the joys and benefits of having lots and lots of illegals with others.
Yet he didn't even ask these people if they wanted to go to those places.
Yes they did Tony. How many times are you going to ignore the fact the governors have signed consent forms?
"Yet he didn't even ask these people if they wanted to go to those places."
Signed forms say he did.
What do you have to back up your claim?
And, uh, were they provided consent forms to be kicked out of MV? Want to bet that they were not?
We'll see if those alleged consent forms hold up in court.
Gee, when did libertarianism become an exercise in believing every self-serving thing a politician says?
At least we agree DeSantis should be investigated for being a criminal. It's a pretty shitty thing to do to humans to dupe them into participating in a political stunt.
"At least we agree DeSantis should be investigated for being a criminal."
Who, PRECISELY, is "we"?
Like Biden should be when he was shipping them to Florida in the middle of the night after arresting them? De Santis gave free transportation, he offered it, didn't force anyone to use it. What crime is that?
soldier,
You're just repeating things other people have said. You don't have the first clue what you're talking about. You're not interested in the facts of this situation, you're only interested in defending Republican politicians. As a libertarian, I feel that makes you a gross statist bootlicker, and I'll not have it.
"You're just repeating things other people have said. "
With links backing it up, but that requires literacy and you lack that.
Dude. Stop pretending. You have already gone in a circle multiple times.
If you believed a word of what you just say, your target would be Joe Biden.
He shipped millions around the country without so much as a by your leave.
But you lie. None of what you said is your concern.
Shilling for the DNC is your one and only concern. And you are absolute crap at it too.
Here is Biden shipping hundred of thousands to small towns without consent of the shipped or notice to the towns
https://www.npr.org/2021/04/15/987618530/why-the-u-s-government-is-dropping-off-migrants-in-rural-arizona-towns
And here is how your democrat friends react when they get a tiny influx
https://twitter.com/theh2/status/1570499501756121089
Notice, the very first objective... the only problem to solve... "We have to get them out of here".
Everything you just wrote, exposed as a lie.
You care nothing for any of those things. You only care for finding a word, phrase or sentence you can use to oppose team R.
You are pitiable if you are just a dude in his basement. And you are pathetic if you are a paid troll.
In neither scenario are you worthy of listening to.
From my perspective, both Democratic and Republican administrations have treated migrants like dogshit for as long as I've been alive. Only Republicans are engaged in a campaign of genocide against them, so there's that.
I'm just not a single-issue voter, and I don't have other options.
Tony, how many migrants have you supported personally?
Genocide?
When? Where?
I call you out. You are lying.
Not wrong. Not mistaken.
Just lying. You made that up because you painted yourself into a corner.
Let's see the receipts.
Because I say so. Why is your only political concern defending Republicans after they do horrible things?
Because you say so? So we should take your word for it and not the migrants and others? How asinine are you?
You shouldn't take my word for anything. You should read a variety of reliable news sources and make an informed opinion.
If you need help finding reliable sources, let me know what you're reading and I'll tell you if it's reliable.
Tony rapes dogs. Don't bother asking me to cite it, but you would be foolish not to take it as an absolute fact.
they're not refugees. they're illegal aliens -- criminals.
They are bad, because when we see them we feel bad.
Why are they a bad thing? Be specific.
You'll have to ask the Martha's Vineyard neighborhood association. I'd start with a one B. Obama.
But why don't you explain it to me.
Because you're the one bitching about giving them free transportation that they accepted.
Note De Santis didn't force anyone to get on the planes. They consented. Unlike Biden who arrested them and shipped them to Florida in the first place in the middle of the night, without any consent.
Dude, you just don't know what you're talking about. You're desperately repeating half-assed talking points.
Stop defending Republicans. They won't return the favor.
Stop defending Democrats, they don't return favors either.
Man, you are an embarrassment at this point.
Are Democrats the only thing standing between civilized society and a fascist state? Then they are Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny rolled into one fuckball of infinite joy as far as I'm concerned.
It used to be that preventing fascism was the bare minimum of human moral behavior. You guys can't even fucking muster that much.
Are Democrats the only thing standing between civilized society and a fascist state?
Considering anything you don't like is "fascism," no. But your side is standing between social stability and anarcho-tyranny, which is why you're going to get your own repressive tolerance shoved down your throat until you choke on it, you marxist sack of shit.
I didn't kick them out of my sanctuary. How could I possibly tell you why the upper class white residents of MV kicked them out.
Fiona Harrigan, the author of this article is completely out of touch with reality. Libertarians believe in the rule of law. People that come over illegally are law breakers which don't deserve our help. Massachusetts is a sanctuary state and DeSantis believes he is actually helping the law breakers by placing them in a state where they will receive more help. It's wrong to help law breakers and to encourage crime, but that is not what this article is about.
I read the title "weaponise" immigrants and can't find any evidence that Florida gave the immigrants firearms.
Making proggies live by the same rules as other, lesser people is a weapon.
I reckon that the authors here at Reason read at least some comments from time to time, and they know who their audience is 100%. (Here and the libertarian sphere in general). How could they not, you know? So when you speak of the title, to me this story is binary in media terms. It is either “Florida Governor shows the hypocrisy of Democrats in the immigration battle” or (If Ron DeSantis Hates Communism, He Shouldn't Weaponize Victims of Communism Lololol) “Republican Governor of Florida uses migrants as political pawns”. So this is just a hit piece and nothing else. This isn’t neutral reporting or anything. Also, I’d say the hypocrisy side would probably be received better in this sphere. But no, instead, you can literally feel the seethe as she typed this up.
More's the pity.
The point of "stunts" like this is to expose hypocrisy and nimbyism of liberal elites, especially when it comes to immigration. Remember, the multimillionaires of MV couldn't muster ONE SINGLE DAY to help 50 people. Not 300, but 50. Desantis purposely sent them a manageable amount of people fully anticipating the wealthy white progs there would balk at doing even the barest minimum to carry out their supposed agenda - if it means inconveniencing them.
But that's less damning than the fact that these people cared not one iota when human traffickers killed 25 migrants. They don't care about migrant drowning or being stuffed in detention centers. They ignore the tremendous burden placed on our border patrol. But 50 migrants arrive on vacation resort, and all of sudden it's a "humanitarian crisis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Joe Biden has to get involved right now! Desantis is guilty is human trafficking!"
Reason now proudly joins the tone deaf. vacuous left who only talks morality. Desantis may have "weaponized" immigrants, but nothing could have stopped the white millionaires from giving them a life. They're economic engines, "more Americans than Americans", will do work Americans won't do, etc - so why did MV boot them out? Why won't Canada take them into their vast empty lands?
Oh, and the false choice and contrived logic supposedly logic minded publication hoists upon us. So if we're against communism, we should have supported the Vietnam War, since that was military action against a communist state. Why aren't we fighting in Ukraine now?
"Expose hypocrisy"
The Republican party has turned almost exclusively into bad internet commenters. Here's why Republicans love to "expose hypocrisy."
Say I shoot your dog. Bad, right? Okay. So you tell me I did a bad thing.
Then I come around and witness you deliberately stepping on a bug.
To what degree does this absolve me of shooting your dog? We both murder animals, after all. One peep from you about your dog, and I will declare that you are a hypocrite.
And since you're such a raging hypocrite, the only logical conclusion is that it's OK for me to shoot dogs but terrible for you to squash bugs.
The details don't matter as much as that last bit. About how Republicansgo on being terrible after they've exposed the supposed hypocrisy.
The logic must be that Republicans think hypocrisy is a worse moral crime than any other moral crime.
Except of course when they're hypocrites, then it's OK.
"The logic must be that Republicans think hypocrisy is a worse moral crime than any other moral crime."
Hypocrisy is the only moral crime Democrats recognize. Because it seems to be the central tenet of their faith.
exactly, if democrats didn't have double standards they'd have no standards.
What a stupid analogy. God you suck at this.
Ok, so Biden invites in millions of illegal aliens, despite having taken the oath to uphold the law. Millions come. He transports them all over the southwest and South. Unnanounced.. to small communities where 10,000 new arrivals who are not legal to work are a major part of the population.
In response, a couple of governors send a few small groups to liberal enclaves in the north.
In your analogy, Biden stepped on a bug and the R governors shot a dog?
Let's try to be a little more accurate.
How about one guy goes into a store, sets everything on fire and steals the money from the register.
As he stands and laughs, a second guy comes along, picks up a broken piece of merchandise and holds it out to the first guy and says, "hey, you missed a piece".
Biden is the first guy. DeSantis is the second.
Not perfect, but much more accurate.
Biden helped people and DeSantis treated them like his personal campaign slaves.
For the umpteenth time, I'm not necessarily criticizing the action of transporting refugees to places. I'm criticizing Republicans for being psychopaths and demanding power over me.
So Biden helped people? Dumping them off in a park in the middle of Bumfuck, Texas with nothing is not helping them, twit.
So call your local Republican politician and get him to support comprehensive immigration reform, and since we're so concerned with helping people, let's make it extra liberal.
"So call your local Republican politician and get him to support comprehensive immigration reform, and since we're so concerned with helping people, let's make it extra liberal."
...but expecting progressive politicians to get their shit together is a step too far. Got it.
You vote for a party you have no respect for. Cute.
Your brain has been turned to chunky vinegar by right-wing propaganda.
Watching you fucking squirm because you know your dumbass entitled wealthy white democrat fucks in Martha’s Vineyard gave up the game is fucking Exquisite. CRY MORE BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hahahahahhahahahahahhaahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahah…………….hahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, Republicans don't support your policy so what Biden did is okay? But Republicans offering free transportation to a well off area that says they welcome refugees is slavery? What the utter fuck?
Biden just executed the law as far as I know. Law you wholeheartedly support under Trump. So what are you bitching about?
As did DeSantis.
You are legitimately terrible at this.
He can't help it. He's a dumb fuck!
"comprehensive immigration reform" is just buzzword for open borders. The dems want these people to come in unimpeded and be eligible for citizenship.
No country can be sustainable under this kind of policy. It's the opposite of the "maximum society" you dream about. Just look at Canada - they're a bigger than us in terms of land size but only have 35 mil population. Why don't they just import 200 million people into their empty lands? Manitoba could probably take in 100,000 migrants easy. They're work and pay taxes and drive the economy, right?
How is offering them free transportation slavery? Fuck that's the stupidest analogy possible. He offered, didn't force anyone. They accepted his offer. That isn't slavery. Shit, that's got to be in the top ten stupid things you've ever said.
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Hey Fiona!
I don't know you, bit I am genuinely interested. When did you get this assignment? What did you use for research?
It "feels" very much like a response to the abject failure of your editor in the morning links.
But it also could be just a response to your Twitter feed.
So tell us, how did this article get created? What was the genesis?
I am suddenly very interested in how the sausage is made.
Friday night fun link.
Reason Contributor, Brendan O'Neill:
Hunter Biden and the Laptop from Hell.
If Fiona loves immigration she should be willing to take them into her neighborhood.
So, Fiona, how many of these illegal alien parasites are you going to house, feed and care for? None, right? Because you don't want them near you, but it's fine to inflict their expensive neediness on towns and states that are flooded with them, right? Fuck sanctuary shitholes and the assholes who support such nonsense. Send ALL the illegals to them.
I had respect to Reason, but "weaponizing" migrants by giving them free flight to Martha's Vinyard? Really? Dear Fiona, do you imply that these migrants will destroy the island as a weapon would?
Also how about doing a bit of journalistic research and uncovering new facts for your readers rather than putting strange labels on the facts everybody already knows? How many migrants have been bused and flown by the federal government and what was their destination? Were they accurately informed about that destination and did they go voluntarily?
Ron Desantis's legion of volunteer lawyers have received their talking points from Central, I see.
Sorry if you miss the stories about Biden flying children around the country.
Of course, according to Ashley, Joe was a bit of a pedo.
And Trump put them in concentration camps.
Biden being an asshole doesn't absolve you of being an asshole. Do you people get that? Did you learn rudimentary morals as toddlers like normal people?
The same camps that Biden has put them in? The same camps that Obama did? Fuck can you stop fucking gaslighting? Is it possible for you to be intellectually honest?
Reread the post you moron.
Tony, you’re the dumbest one here, now that you k is that, apologize. You should be great full we’re this nice to you.
The most amusing part, which is probably lost on you, is that your screeds actually do reveal you for what you are: a person that only pretends to give fucks about immigration and racism because it's expected of your tribe even while it's fully acceptable to shit on them for the smallest violation of the creed you feel no obligation to keep yourself.
The bonus is you're a gay man who feels the urge to return to the 1950's only with a replacement of who is being victimized. Revenge porn at it's finest, which says much more about you than you'd probably care to admit.
I favor a liberal comprehensive immigration reform. What do you want to do about migrants?
Let them stay here on the condition you get shipped to where they came from.
You favor open borders, like you posted above. That's literally not liberal comprehensive immigrantion reform. That's simply abolishment of immigrantion law.
You are so fucking stupid.
As a libertarian I have no choice but to support open borders. There is simply no justification for forcing free people to be doomed by accident of their birthplace. Not if we expect them to live and die by the free market.
As a pragmatist, I'm open to the comprehensive immigration reform that Republicans have cynically been blocking for my whole life.
Biden being an asshole doesn't absolve you of being an asshole.
This is pretty funny. Biden is currently President which means he's putting them in camps. So Tony is both whatabouting to protect Biden and and complaining about whatabouting in the same comment.
I'm not sure we could come up with a more discrediting comment. He just can't keep his ideas straight, I think he's on tilt.
Oh, so you support some other policy than current US federal immigration law, which the president is enforcing, as is his job. And what would that policy be?
I think my comment is clear that your inability to think straight is the source of my humor. Are you still having a hard time getting it?
You only think that because, for the zillionth time, you people have this pathological inability to recognize that not everyone is in a cult like you are.
So what do you want the US government to do to migrants, again?
You think espousing a principle you've contradicted in the same comment can only happen if you're in a cult?
Love it, keep digging!
Okay well you can go on thinking you've caught me in a contradiction and that makes you morally superior, and I'm going to go on thinking I'm morally superior because I don't want the US government to hurt people for no reason.
I'm going to go on thinking I'm morally superior because I don't want the US government to hurt people for no reason.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11220963/Cape-Cod-military-base-50-migrants-chowed-shipped-Marthas-Vineyard.html
If you just knew more you'd be able to judge your morality more accurately.
So your position is that Ron DeSantis was actually giving these migrants a jolly vacation? Are you sure you want his fans to know?
By all accounts the migrants themselves found Martha's Vineyard lovely and are most concerned about making their court dates.
They fled through six countries to get here. I'm sure they're happy not to be wherever they came from.
Of course the good treatment didn't start until they were in the clutches of those hypocritical libtards who Ron DeSantis was just sure would treat them as shitty as he had. Oh well, better luck next time.
Of course the good treatment didn't start until they were in the clutches of those hypocritical libtards who Ron DeSantis was just sure would treat them as shitty as he had. Oh well, better luck next time.
Hey, it's not our side whining about "human trafficking" to one of the most expensive zip codes in the US.
You just can't wrap your head around the possibility that some people don't treat South American migrants as subhuman animals, can you?
Trump does 'X' = Evil
Biden does 'X' = Compassionate
This is what Tony really believes, which is why those of us with a brain note that he's a tribalist first and foremost and a fool of a took second.
You just can't wrap your head around the possibility that some people don't treat South American migrants as subhuman animals, can you?
Stop whining that sending them to Martha's Vineyard is human traffcking, then.
"And Trump put them in concentration camps."
Referring to those shots of kids in cages from Obama that dolts like you blamed on Trump?
Tl:DR Tony: "I'm pissy that the GOP out-foxed Dem hypocritical racists."
Good, your tears are delicious.
You only think that's what happened because you can't internalize the concept that there are Americans out there who are not racist hillbillies. You think you are so righteous in your racist evil against migrants that those Martha's Vineyard liberals wouldn't be able to help themselves before kicking and spitting on those dirty migrants when they arrived, proving your bigotry correct.
Sorry that didn't happen. See you in November.
They shipped them to a military post within 48 hours and threw a fit. You think this is a win for your side? And offering completely voluntary transportation is slavery? What bizarre world do you live in? Shit, are you fucking high? There is absolutely no logic to your tantrum.
You know what, I don't know who "wins" this travesty. I can't tell anymore.
They lied about where they were sending the migrants, who have to find a way to make court dates in cities around the country, and they didn't even call ahead so that human necessities could be made available. The obvious goal of this stunt was to hurt these people and get innocent Americans going about their lives to help them hurt them.
Your beliefs are vile. Your politicians are sociopaths. Wake up some day and try not defending everything any Republican does, for once. See how it feels to have a life again.
You know what, I don't know who "wins" this travesty. I can't tell anymore.
Lemme ruin the ending for you retard; not you and the democrat party. I have never witnessed you get so completely and utterly shit on in one post. Please keep going!!
Phil Ochs was right about the good people of Martha's Vineyard - 10 degrees to the left of center in good times, 10 degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally.
"I love Puerto Ricans and Negroes
As long as they don't live next door
Love me, love me, love me,
I'm a liberal.
I'd say they're still left of center, but unreservedly self-centered whenever something impacts them in/directly. Typical for progressives and feminists.
"10 degrees to the left of center in good times, 10 degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally."
Sounds pretty sane and calm to me.
How many degrees to the right do you suppose is the correct number of degrees? Shall I check in later to see what number you're up to?
In this thread, Reason troll Tony deliberately misses the point, and would sell out just as fast as the song's subject.
I think the point is clear. If you can find someone you disagree with politically who acted even a little like a hypocrite one time, you are permitted to treat whole continents worth of people as disposable trash.
No, that's not it.
So... having no consistent principles and assessing situations purely on how they affect you personally is "sane and calm"?
Funny, because it sounds more sociopathic to me.
"You only think that's what happened because you can't internalize the concept that there are Americans out there who are not racist hillbillies."
They deported them is less than 2 days. Chicago did the same.
are you so stupid and low iq that you can't differentiate between legal and illegal immigration? what we're talking about here in this article is the latter.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11220963/Cape-Cod-military-base-50-migrants-chowed-shipped-Marthas-Vineyard.html
The people in question seem pleased. I wonder if Fiona has any qualms about using these people to play politics.
Harrigan, how did those Venezuelans get to Florida? A state surrounded by water on three sides and its land border is solely with the US and something like 500 miles from the closest border with Mexico?
Could it be that the USG bused them there?
They swam there from Venezuela, obviously.
The governor flew dozens of Venezuelans to Martha's Vineyard at taxpayer expense, even though they fled a regime he says "is responsible for countless atrocities.
Wow, that's some twisted logic. Let's try it:
"The governor flew dozens of Venezuelans to Martha's Vineyard at taxpayer expense, even though Unicorn Abattoir had a Hot Pocket for lunch."
No, still doesn't make a lot of sense.
As soon any Republicans stand up to these Marxist scumbags in the Democrat party, they start calling for a criminal investigation. They can't stand that there are politicians that won't put up with their bullshit and push back against it, that's what they're really mad about. Ron DeSantis is a savage; he took the fight directly to the left and now they're crying like the little bitches that they are. This country could use an army of people like him, then maybe we could stop it from turning into a third world shithole!
YOUR beliefs are vile. YOUR politicians are sociopaths. Wake up some day and try not defending everything any Democrat does, for once. See how it feels to have a life again. And let's get one thing straight: They are illegal aliens not migrants, the fucktards on the left can pretty up any shitty thing with fucking euphemisms.
Ah, yet Ron DeSantis has done more than any other politician in decades to humanize immigrants. Make sure you share the good news with all of his supporters.
Watching your side literally compare them to garbage was the funniest part about this whole thing.
Each side made some assumptions about the other.
Republicans thought rich liberals were psychopathic monsters like they are, and that turned out wrong.
Rich liberals thought Republicans could do politics ruthlessly well, and that ship seems to have sailed sometime around 2018.
Hundreds of migrants dead. Hundreds of migrants raped. Hundreds of migrants made sex slaves, kids included. Hundreds of migrants made regular slaves. I think we know who the psychopathic monsters are.
"Republicans thought rich liberals were psychopathic monsters like they are, and that turned out wrong."
They DEPORTED them in less than 2 days in spite of plenty of housing in the area.
So you think that the only thing standing between these migrants and a happy life of early retirement in Martha's Vineyard is the pitchfork-wielding locals?
Not at all what the response to you said. Nice straw man. I know you really have to lean into false characterizations to support your position.
Looks like it, since they were shipped to a military installation. Those rich bitches can't even handle 50 extra people?
"So you think that the only thing standing between these migrants and a happy life of early retirement in Martha's Vineyard is the pitchfork-wielding locals?"
Couldn't even stay 48 hrs before the illegal-loving locals decided that they really loved illegals when they were either mowing their lawns or miles and miles away.
Because they care.
Maybe DeSantis should have called ahead so they had supplies and facilities available instead of just calling FOX News to bring their cameras.
Tony
September.17.2022 at 1:07 am
"Lie...
Lie...
Lie"
Par for the course, shitbag.
Each side made some assumptions about the other.
LOL, the copium is off the charts in this one.
Claiming he's "weaponizing" migrants is de facto admitting that they are a bad thing for the community. But I thought Reason.com only saw migrants as a benefit?
Sadism is the only way this sick freak knows how to display his imaginary manhood.
Florida is not a border state. Water on three sides and Georgia on the other. So how did those illegals get there? Biden flew them to Florida in the middle of the night. DeSantis just returned them. Yet Reason chooses to pick on DeSantis rather than Biden. Very politically partisan.
Same with Reasons "punishment". Isn't that what Biden is doing, making sure red states feel the pain of the illegals, all DeSantis is doing is making sure blue states share that pain. Also Reason misses the fact, just as DeSantis said, Florida is not a sanctuary state. Really he is doing these illegals a big favor flying them to sanctuary states and cites that SAY they invite them, welcome them, want them, will give them more free stuff and a better life. Why should DeSantis be criticized for doing those illegals such a big favor?
The migrants came from San Antonio.
So the Florida state government is paying to send migrants from a completely different state to a smug progressive island in order to make a point about illegal immigration. Yes this is a total stunt.
Which means they were shipped to Florida by Biden.
The migrants were never in Florida. They were flown from San Antonio to Martha's Vineyard.
Yeah, they were--the plane stopped there on the way.
Yes, they were in Florida. If you don't even know the facts of a situation, it's not a good idea to opine in that situation.
The plane went from Texas to Florida, then from Florida to Martha's Vineyard.
They aren't Victims of Communism.
They were willing participants in Communism who probably have not learned their lesson.
Just as Americans are willing participants in The Kleptocracy's shoot-first prohibitionism, yet are surprised by financial crashes, depressions and waves of wretches fleeing from where "we" exported such murdering superstition.
So let's review:
Politicians use children as political props in an election year in order to push an agenda. This is a bad thing when it's Team Blue using school kids to push gun control. This is a good thing when it's Team Red using immigrant kids to push immigration restrictions.
The concept of consent becomes tricky when the two parties coming to an agreement have vastly different levels of power; when this is the case, it can be difficult to know whether the consent is truly voluntary, or whether it is the result of implied coercion by the more powerful party. This is a big problem when it comes to the federal government "asking" social media companies to moderate content, when that content favors right-wing viewpoints. This is not a problem at all, however, when it comes to a state government "asking" utterly powerless, penniless and homeless migrants on whether they want to "voluntarily" go somewhere else.
And let's not forget the big one: Even if we totally ignore the whole power imbalance thing, consent obtained under false pretenses is fraudulent. This is a problem, evidently, for everyone except migrants.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/republican-governor-florida-flies-migrants-marthas-vineyard-political-stunt-2022-09-15/
So, "Perla" was trolling shelters in San Antonio (last I checked, San Antonio is not in Florida), lied to them with empty promises, tricked them into signing a consent form which they called a "liability waiver", and then shipped them off to Martha's Vineyard.
So libertarian. So so libertarian.
I just want the people here who are defending this stunt, even after it was revealed how fraudulent it was, to just finally admit that they don't give a shit about these migrants. They are second-class human beings and they don't really care if they are used as cargo shipped all over the place in order to make some political point. It is immaterial to them if "Perla", on behalf of the state of Florida, is trolling homeless migrants in shelters in Texas, and tricking migrants to sign forms. Who cares? Who gives a shit? The important point here is that Team Blue is made to suffer. What happens to those migrants, and how they are treated, really doesn't matter. They are disposable human beings.
Just admit that, and then this conversation will not have been in vain.
Also.
For years and years the immigration restrictionists have used terminology such as "importing illegals" to describe migration. And I and others have said, over and over, that it's not right to use such dehumanizing language. That migrants are not cargo, and they shouldn't be referred to as if they are mere cargo being "imported" across borders. Well, now we are starting to see the culmination of the beliefs that this type of rhetoric embodies. Here we have a stunt in which human beings really are being treated much more analogously to cargo, and guess what, the same crowd which squawks about "importing illegals" is defending this same stunt. Quelle surprise.
And one more thing.
So the Team Red defenders of this stunt are behaving like a bunch of bigoted trash when they treat migrants in this way, lying to them and using them as props in a stunt, with little if any concern for what actually happens to the migrants.
And many of the vocal Team Blue opponents of this stunt are themselves a bunch of flaming hypocrites who speak of tolerance and sanctuary only when they don't pay any cost, and of course also act like a bunch of bigoted trash when they compare these migrants to literal trash.
We have both teams here using these poor migrants as pawns and using them to score points, and ultimately failing to recognize their fundamental humanity. To Team Red, these migrants are trash that must be disposed of in someone else's backyard. To Team Blue, these migrants are only conceptual objects for purposes of virtue signaling, not real people. BOTH treat them like second-class disposable human beings, and neither side wants to come to grips with their fundamentally bigoted and, frankly, misanthropic treatment of these migrants.
So this problem, of widespread bigotry combined with widespread denial about the problem that this bigotry represents, is not limited to one tribe. It's not purely a right-wing thing or purely a left-wing thing. It is all over the place. One might call it "systemic" even. Hmm.
Biden has been sending planes of illegals to Newburgh NY, Westchester, NY, MacArthur airport on Long Island in the darkness of night. Doing the same thing.
These parties hate each other and we are hating them. I can’t blame DeSantis for playing rough. Fight fire with fire.
These “migrants” are going to do just fine because the beautiful land of Martha’s Vineyard is a sanctuary island.
It’s not like 250,000 illegals flooding Yuma AZ a town of 100,000. There is a problem in this country that many people are not affected by. Well, its coming your way now. Step up Congress.
Hahaha--eat shit, fat boy. All the whinging in that TL;DR rant doesn't change the fact that this made you ass-mad as hell, which means it's automatically good.
But he’s totally not a leftist and not sympathetic to leftist propaganda and stunts….
The Biden administration promises migrants shelter and various other resources for an unlimited number of people, and it falls on GOP governors and the residents of their states to provide.
Time to 'socialize' that burden by sending them to places that claim to want them.
I see you too also completely ignore the fraudulent nature of this entire stunt.
Fraudulent as in claiming to be asylum seekers who pass through several other countries first?
I wonder how far the ethnic cleansing of red states will go before you give up defending fascist Republican trash.
Ethnic cleansing? You let me know of any Republican in office wanting to expel legal immigrants due to their race and I'll be with you condemning that position.
Otherwise it's just typical shrill hyperbole from you.
Then we can do like Reagan did and amnesty them all, clearing up the bureaucratic hiccup you claim to be so concerned about.
Just make them all legal. What's the problem?
Problem is without border enforcement you keep running into the same problem of having to constantly give amnesty.
Nah, I'm sure this would be the last time Team Blue would ask. Also, I hear they have oceanfront property on Nebraska for sale.
Not if it wasn't a crime to step over an imaginary line.
Sorry, property isn't theft.
You talking drugs? Or the victims of exported prohibitionism, volksgenosse?
Ethnic cleansing? Fuck, you are so hard up for people to be racists, it's honestly concerning. You're definitely one of those people whose demand for racists far outstrips supply.
Are you really so insecure that you need to create false enemies out of everyday people so that you can pretend to be superior to them?
I'll readily admit to being racist against white leftists--if anyone deserves a helicopter ride, it's them.
(It’s because he’s a racist and he’s looking for fellow travelers.)
Ethnic cleansing? To Martha’s Vineyard? You’re joking, right?
Very good point, but only after we export the causes of their economic collapse and refuse to undo them.
This is typical of what befalls the victims of U.S. exported prohibitionism when they stampede away from where Positive Christianity sent government agents to help caudillo fascists help them. The Nixon law very adequately ensured no Libertarian Party will ever materialize there, yet it takes men with guns to force them to "vote" in what they call "elections."
NBC Deletes Tweet Comparing Martha’s Vineyard Migrants to ‘Trash’
NBC News compared the illegal immigrants who landed in Martha’s Vineyard this week to “trash” in a since-deleted tweet.
The corporate media outlet posted an article about how the migrants, who are primarily Venezuelan, are dividing the Venezuelan-American community.
“Florida Gov. DeSantis sending asylum-seekers to Martha’s Vineyard is like ‘me taking my trash out and just driving to different areas where I live and just throwing my trash there,’ a founding member of a foundation that helps refugees says,” the tweet said.
@NBCLatino
Bold hypocrisy from the Left.
I love how you uncritically cite a Breitbart article without any introspection whatsoever.
Any different than you and CNN/MSNBC?
You certainly do live up to your name.
NBC has a longer track record of just outright fabricating shit.
When Breitbart sets up explosives to make trucks explode in an expose, you can talk.
I love how you uncritically cite a Breitbart article without any introspection whatsoever.
Doesn't change the fact that the leftist made that analogy, you fat sack of shit.
NBC posted it. The amount of gaslighting you all on the left are engaging in to outrage about illegal immigrants being sent to MV is exceptional.
So the tweet didn’t get posted?
Comparing the atrocities committed by Communist Venezuela to putting people on an airplane to Martha's Vineyard has to be peak woketarian.
They should send them to Psaki's neighborhood in NoVa next.
Mass illegal immigration, what could possibly go wrong? It's worked out beautifully for Europe. Thanks traitor Joe, you've done more to sow division in this country than anybody ever. This guy violates his constitutional oath every single day and all you hear are crickets chirping. He needs to be impeached ASAP in January to show the Marxists in congress the sword swings both ways.
Huh? Joe’s following pretty much the same policies as Donald.
Yet, he's not. My god the gaslighting from you all on the left is at some of the highest levels now.
You do realize that “Joe is following the same policies as Donald” is something a person on the left would ever, ever say.
Yet, I have heard many on the left claim Biden is just doing the same thing as Trump in retorts to Trump supporters.
Politics has people making myopic, hypocritical, and poorly thought out arguments quite often.
So yeah, it's happened a lot.
“Politics has people making myopic, hypocritical, and poorly thought out arguments quite often.”
That’s SOP for Mikey.
I hope those guys are staying up nights dreaming of rich,white,progressive enclaves to send these illegals to. I can think of some:
Rehoboth beach
Santa Barbara
Palm Springs
Marin County
The Hamptons
Chappaqua NY
Boston
Providence RI
Newport RI
Fairfield CT
Medina WA
They're all about this shit until it comes to THEIR doorstep. So, get ready proglodytes here come your replacements. Are you happy now?
Portland OR
Portland ME
Seattle WA
Cambridge MA
Burlington VT
http://www.apsanlaw.com/law-246.List-of-Sanctuary-cities.html
Yes, Burlington VT, why not let the hometown of Bernie the red experience the crush of illegal immigration in a small-town setting.
In fairness, sending illegal immigrants to Portland is actually unconscionable or at least cruel and unusual punishment. To the illegal immigrant, mind you, not the people of Portland.
I'd hate to admit Trump, Hitlerjugend Rubio, Greene Teeth, Lyin' Ted or De Sainthiss are right about anything, for they see only symptoms. The peasants manufactured by their fanatical-beheader drug laws, passed by Biden and other Dems, are the cause of the wreckage of South American and our own economies. Think fractional reserve banking, asset-forfeiture looting sprees, no liquidity and waves ob bankruptcies and default and connect the dots. Now look up Great Depression
Expo 2022 Dubai https://khaleejaffairs.com/top-pavilions-of-expo-2022-dubai-are-re-opening/
If only there was a national solution to the problem of immigration governed by laws enacted by representatives of the citizens of the US.
For all of the comments to the contrary, the basic point of the article echoed my own thoughts once I got the info that these folks all came from Venezuela (the once jewel of the Caribbean that is not a socialist hellhole). DeSantis concept was fine, but he picked the wrong bunch to ship.
When you're trying to make a political point, you need to consider all of the ramifications.
p.s.
Happy Constitution Day!
the entered the country illegally. are you a moron??
Did they? Do you understand how the laws surrounding asylum work in this country or the history of why they exist?
There is no way to seek asylum while out of the country. You have to show up. You can argue, if you'd like, that they should be seeking asylum in the nearest stable country that could shelter them, rather than travel all the way to the U.S. But the laws in the U.S. and treaties that the U.S. is party to do not require that.
"Asylum seekers who arrive at a U.S. port of entry or enter the United States without inspection generally must apply through the defensive or expedited asylum processes. All three application processes require the asylum seeker to be physically present in the United States or at a port of entry." - American Immigration Council
Both international law and U.S. law surrounding refugee status and asylum changed in the years after WWII after the shameful and horrific treatment of Jews fleeing Nazi persecution, and later, the Holocaust. The German liner, St. Louis, attempted to ferry over 900 refugees (almost all Jewish) to Cuba in 1939. But Cuba refused almost all of them, and the captain (a German) tried unsuccessfully to obtain permission to land in the U.S., Canada, or the UK. He considered trying to beach the ship in the U.S., but he was shadowed closely by the U.S. Coast Guard under orders from the Secretary of State to prevent this. In the end, he had to return to Europe, arriving in Belgium. They ended up in a variety of places, including Belgium, France, and some did make it to the UK. Of the original 936 refugees, 254 were murdered during the Holocaust, as found by later research.
This is what the issue is. Some of these people are just looking to America as the Land of Opportunity and they are fleeing poverty. It is certainly true that the laws for asylum are not intended for this, and do not allow for it. But others are fleeing countries where gang violence is rampant, governments are dysfunctional or corrupt, natural disasters have compounded those problems, and more. These people deserve compassion, and if ultimately they don't qualify for asylum, then we at least have a moral obligation to ensure that they find a safe refuge somewhere.
Or, we could just view them as 'illegals' and 'not our problem' and turn them away, send them back to where they came from, or use them to score political points and 'own the libs' rather than actually try and address the root problems. I think we can see what Gov. DeSantis and Gov. Abbott have chosen.
These people deserve compassion, and if ultimately they don't qualify for asylum, then we at least have a moral obligation to ensure that they find a safe refuge somewhere.
No, we don't. We are not the world's shepherd or its social worker, nor should we be. The problems these people are running from are international issues, and if the UN can't step the fuck up and do something, it might be time to finally dissolve that otherwise useless body and admit that the globalist pipe dream is just that.
Correct. JasonT20 brings up a sad situation which hopefully all of us feel bad about. I feel bad for the 'illegals'. However, the US does not have unlimited money to spend. The Weimar Republic is a classic case of their government spending money to make people feel good and causing hyperinflation. Making 'illegals' and their liberal friends feel good in the short-term does not solve the long-term problem caused by the communist/socialist country that they are fleeing. Of course the situation is bad, but the solution is not to let them in, the solution is to point to the cause - communism/socialism and help them fix the problem at the source country.
Of course the situation is bad, but the solution is not to let them in, the solution is to point to the cause - communism/socialism and help them fix the problem at the source country.
And that is a reasonable and reasoned position to take. Unfortunately, it is not the solution I see DeSantis and Abbott working towards. If they want to bring attention to the problems of dealing with the influx of migrants, they can do it in ways that don't exploit them as chess pieces. They can do it without lying to them about where they are going (according to lawyers that have arrived to represent them). These are just too obviously political stunts aimed at riling up a base of voters being told that they need to worry about these 'illegals' "that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with [them]. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."
Too many Republican politicians follow Trump's example and became "performance artists", to use the words of Texas GOP Rep. Dan Crenshaw. "Performance artists are the ones who get all of the attention, the ones you think are more conservative because they know how to say slogans real well. They know how to recite the lines that they know our voters want to hear."
For them, "owning the libs" is the goal, not solving problems. To actually solve problems, it takes both hard work and hard choices. It requires making compromises to build sufficient consensus to get things done in a democratic republic. But that makes you look "weak" in the Trump mindset, since you always need to "fight" the enemies of the state.
For them, "owning the libs" is the goal, not solving problems
Owning libs is solving problems. It's solving the problems of lib policies and ideology.
It requires making compromises to build sufficient consensus to get things done in a democratic republic.
Something the left is absolutely not interested in doing.
But that makes you look "weak" in the Trump mindset, since you always need to "fight" the enemies of the state.
Leftists have unironically and approvingly compared their political ideology to a virus, and openly state that their purpose is to "disrupt and dismantle" anything they don't like. They are absolutely enemies of the state, and fighting them is not just an obligation, but a sacred duty.
Owning libs is solving problems. It's solving the problems of lib policies and ideology.
That's not what anyone means by "solving problems". This kind of ideology is a lack of one. The only thing this version of the GOP knows how to do is be the opposition. When a party is defined by what they are opposed to, then they lack any kind of positive vision and have no ability to build coalitions that will actually accomplish anything. "Freedom" and "liberty" are virtues, not policies. "Limited government" is subjective and serves only as a rallying cry; it does nothing to tell anyone what they plan to do with power once they get it.
They are absolutely enemies of the state, and fighting them is not just an obligation, but a sacred duty.
There was a time when conservatives had actual plans and policy goals. Despite not being conservative, I registered and voted Republican about half the time as recently as 10 years ago. But the party has been completely taken over by the "grifters" and "performance artists" that are only good at fooling the base into punching down as a distraction. They really serve their wealthy donors, not the voters.
That's not what anyone means by "solving problems".
It's what I mean. Leftist ideology is a problem, and resisting it is the solution.
The only thing this version of the GOP knows how to do is be the opposition.
Yes, that's what being an opposing party means. You oppose the other party's policies.
But the party has been completely taken over by the "grifters" and "performance artists" that are only good at fooling the base into punching down as a distraction.
No, they're punching up against your social class. You just don't like that they're doing it.
Don’t bother, he’s a piece of shit socialist who will never understand the destruction his chosen philosophy wrecks upon those it is inflicted on.
The US has infinite money to spend on assassinating foreign libertarians and propping up caudillo fascisti to keep stuffing graveyards and prisons with peasants over plant leaves.
The New Colossus
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Emma Lazarus, 1883
Emma Lazarus was commissioned to write this poem as part of the fundraising for completion of the planned Statue of Liberty. She was born in 1849 to a wealthy sugar-refining family of Portugese Sephardic Jewish descent that dates to when New York was New Amsterdam. She was thus very well aware of the plight of immigrants fleeing persecution, and performed much work with refugees, identifying particularly strongly with Russian Jews arriving at the time.
This is in stark contrast to this idea you have the the U.S. can't be the "world's shepherd or its social worker, nor should we be." Assuming that you are a native born American, as I am, and presumably white, as I am as well, given your user name, our existence in this country is due to the "open borders" of the past and the ability of millions of Europeans to immigrate to this land. Our ancestors came here for a variety of reasons. Some fleeing oppression, some looking for greater religious freedom, and some simply looking for better economic opportunity. It just seems really odd to me, perhaps even deeply hypocritical, to have this kind of attitude now given the history of the United States.
Emma Lazarus' poem is one of the dumbest and most overrated in American history.
Assuming that you are a native born American, as I am, and presumably white, as I am as well, given your user name, our existence in this country is due to the "open borders" of the past and the ability of millions of Europeans to immigrate to this land.
Shut the fuck up with that white guilt nonsense. Leaving aside the fact that, no, I'm not white like you, the existence of this country is due to the ability of the Europeans to do what any landmark civilization has done in the history of humanity--conquer its enemies with ruthless efficiency. The fact that it became a magnet for mass immigration is incidental to that.
It just seems really odd to me, perhaps even deeply hypocritical, to have this kind of attitude now given the history of the United States.
Not really. You should probably read some more American history.
Shut the fuck up with that white guilt nonsense. Leaving aside the fact that, no, I'm not white like you, the existence of this country is due to the ability of the Europeans to do what any landmark civilization has done in the history of humanity--conquer its enemies with ruthless efficiency. The fact that it became a magnet for mass immigration is incidental to that.
Like I said. More simple and honest would be to say FYIGM.
Thanks for acknowledging that your position is based on rhetorical smoke and historical ignorance.
Yes, I recall distinctly when that poem became the law of the land.
Oh, wait….
these people do not need asylum. they simply want to get into our country because their home country is a shit hole. not my problem. and you're wrong, they need to apply at the nearest country.
"But others are fleeing countries where gang violence is rampant, governments are dysfunctional or corrupt, natural disasters have compounded those problems, and more."
yea, don't care. this is no excuse to just enter illegally. there are 194 other countries they can flee to. i'm sick of this open border bull shit. we need to shut down the border and not allow any immigration.
these people do not need asylum. they simply want to get into our country because their home country is a shit hole. not my problem.
See my reply to Red Rocks above. Unless you are descended only from Native Americans, you are an American because someone in your family tree left the country they were born in, perhaps because it was "a shit hole." It is good for you that the Native Americans here when the first Europeans arrived didn't have the means to "shut down the border and not allow any immigration."
So much of this America First rhetoric would be more simply and honestly stated as FYIGM.
Unless you are descended only from Native Americans, you are an American because someone in your family tree left the country they were born in, perhaps because it was "a shit hole." It is good for you that the Native Americans here when the first Europeans arrived didn't have the means to "shut down the border and not allow any immigration."
The existence of Native Americans and the conquest of the Western Hemisphere is irrelevant to the fact that the US shouldn't be the world's shepherd or social worker. We are under no obligation to take in the entire planet's population just because bad shit happens in other countries.
Well of course we have an obligation to take in everyone fleeing from some other country, just as long as we don't send them to some wealthy leftist neighborhood, you racist monster.
Did I suggest any sympathy for these people?
My comment was about DeSantis messing up a golden opportunity. He should have realized that someone would use the fact that they came from VENEZUELA as opposed to Mexico, Columbia etc.
When you're commenting, you need to read and understand what you're commenting on.
Desantis et alii export violent prohibitionism and now inherit the wind. Prohibition and The Crash are the cause and effect bigots struggle to evade.
"If Ron DeSantis Hates Communism, He Shouldn't Weaponize Victims of Communism"
Before we call them "victims", we might inquire for whom they voted.
Sounds good to me.
apparently, like all good leftists, fiona does not understand what an illegal alian is. they only think they deserve is either prison or deportation.
your a paridy, arent you?
so you support brandon's open borders
“In This House, We Believe: Black Lives Matter, Women’s Rights Are Human Rights, No Human Is Illegal, Science Is Real, Love Is Love, Kindness Is Everything”. But, NIMBY. DeSantis didn't 'weaponize' anyone by asking for volunteers. He did demonstrate the bedrock hypocrisy common to progressivism, 'social justice,' DEI, anti-racism, feminism and other quasi-religions.
Cultural Marxism thee, but not for me.
Just to be clear, you idiots, taking the exact talking points from Ted Cruz's twitter feed, actually believe that these people could have settled in Massachusetts? Even if they had to be in court in Seattle by Monday?
You're right, Cape Cod is much closer to Seattle than MV.
Tony is copying old-time communism of the 1920s, ignoring prohibition as a side issue while grasping for talking points in the general hubbub. Lenin didn't repeal the Czar's booze ban until 1925, as collapse set in. Even then commie minions lacked the mental wherewithal to see that laws making a crime of production and trade wreck the economy. Why any fan of communism would imitate Republican nationalsocialists to that extent is a mystery.
“On this island we believe…”
FIFY —and someone should post one right at the ferry station.
Weaponize? Did he make them wear bomb vests, or does the bus explode if it does under 55?
Metaphors, how do the work?
Poorly when you’re pushing a narrative that’s utter bullshit.
Fiona Harrigan once again showing off her education from STU... Stupid Twit University. What does a writer have to do to be fired from Reason?
Vote for Trump?
The one somewhat recent example we have of someone’s being fired from Reason, Dalmia, was so opposite of being fired for voting for Trump.
Shika left and someone needed to pick up the Sob Sister act. Fiona drew the short straw.
Sockfascist sighted, photon torpedos hot and true... Loser Mooted!
She's an intern. No real life experience. I'd cut her some slack.
Yeah---no.
If someone throws a rock at you and you pick it up and throw it back, you are not the one who weaponized the rock. The aggressor did that.
So a thousand year-old blood feud is OK. Only the first guy is to blame for anything.
Did I accidentally type, "If someone throws a rock at you and a thousand years later one of your descendants picks it up and throws it back..."? I'm not seeing it.
No, you said that as long as someone isn't the first to throw a rock, they are morally justified in throwing a rock at someone.
Learn to read, moron.
That's what self-defense consists of. That's why Kyle Rittenhouse is walking a free man today, while your felon child molestor and grandma-slapping drug addict allies are feeding worms.
Stop weaponizing logic against poor Tony!
Not distinguishing between aggressors and defenders is part of Wokism. See Kyle Rittenhouse.
It's pretty easy these days to sniff out the politics of the hacks that get paid by the word...Biden moving illegal immigrants from the boarder around the US in the dead of night is OK. When the Governors of Florida and Texas do the same thing, it's a "stunt!" And the "weaponization of victims of communism"...? Good grief, gimme a break!
You forgot 'crime against humanity'.
https://www.newsweek.com/aoc-accuses-desantis-abbott-crimes-against-humanity-migrant-stunt-1743932
Politics is not a philosophical debate, it is a knock-down, drag out street fight. The left weaponizes things constantly so it is appropriate for the right to retaliate. To paraphrase Clausewitz, "Politics is war by other means." The left understands this and so should the author of this (ahem) article.
There's way too many people in total denial that we are, in fact, in a cold war in this country, and that this is coming to a head because the right is putting up a bit more than token resistance to the left's historic determinism.
Consequences of ignoring and dis-respecting the very foundation/definition of the USA (the U.S. Constitution). The compulsive championing of [WE] mob rules democracy without any acknowledgement to a Constitutional Union of Republican States.
Yes; The Democrats very platform is to conquer the USA for a Nazi(National Socialist)-Empire and it is tearing the country apart just like countless historic Nazism nations does.
And Christian National Socialists do exactly the same thing while calling the kettle black.
Never change Hankie-poo.
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Republican Governors should send ALL of the illegal aliens they apprehend to Sanctuary Cities and States, all of which are controlled by Trump hating Democrats who voted for Biden, supported his disastrous open border policy, and publicly congratulated themselves for welcoming illegal aliens when they created their Sanctuaries.
The unthinkable alternative would be to repeal all prohibition laws here and stop exporting them to Banana Republics. The USA started these with the 1909 anti-opium law to please Chinese beheaders. Then the 1912 Hague convention and Harrison act irritated German pharma into WW1. Then the 1925 and 1931 "narcotic" conventions caused German pharma to fund National Socialism and we got WW2, a huge Soviet Union, Red Chinese beheaders and wretches fleeing the new Balkan Banana Republics. This is freedom?
Only in the deranged "thinking" of the left is are illegals being "weaponized". The left has been weaponizing illegals, domestic criminals, and malcontents for decades. Their entire existence is contrived, so they think the opposition must be as fake as they are.
The strongest character strength of Democrats is their ability to PROJECT everything they stand for onto others.
Sockpuppet with Trumpanzee socksite detected. Fire photon torpedos... Loser Mooted
Is it possible that Reason could contract with a server provider worse than the steaming pile of shit Welsh has found?
Nope.
Ken Burns thinks those poor migrants were sent to North Auschwitz.
How many gas chambers are there in Martha's Vineyard?
Burns has produced some decent documentaries, but when I saw him getting worked up about this I pretty much lost any respect for his perspective.
yeah something tells me this isn't about the evils of shunning the unvaxxed.
Try doing time in a South American fascist caudillo prison funded by gringo tax dollars and fed by Harry Anslinger propaganda. Compared to those, gas chambers--as determined by DEM/GOP jurisprudence--are neither cruel nor unusual. William Jennings Brian, then Herbert Hoover, exported prohibitionist torture chambers to all points south of Brownsville. Those wretches are fleeing "our" Kleptocracy puppets and the financial disasters they cause banning trade.
Yes, we get it reason.. You're on the side of both prog and rich elites, open border fallacies, and are against working Americans and Americans in general.
Where do these Trumpanzees com from? Is there a Thorazine shortage?
"and Americans in general."
Venezuelans are Americans. South Americans.
Since the LP shocked The Kleptocracy in 1972, looters have imported harder planks from earlier communo-fascist régimes then tried to reexport them to us. Almost all illegal immigrants are the victims of indiscriminate murderous prohibitionism imposed by Imperial China in 1837 and copied by TR, Taft, Wilson and Bert Hoover. Communism tripled when prohibition caused a recession in 1920-23, then increased 700% after the 5&10 felony beer law. Dems back prohibition laws and act surprised at hordes of paupers fleeing "our" exports.
Best troll I’ve seen in my life. Well-played!
enforcing the law isn’t victimizing criminals. Getting sent to Martha’s Vineyard is a pretty humane sentence to boot. This is like salon covering reason.
What law was being enforced? And in what way are asylum seekers criminals? The law, both U.S. and in treaties it is party to, allows for people to apply for asylum.
Then why send these people away from MV? They proudly declared they were a sanctuary city.......
I'm used to reading hair-brained articles on Reason, but this one really takes the cake. The author completely missed the point of flying illegal immigrants to MV. It wasn't to "punish" Democratic cities, it was to bring the issue that has been devastating border states to the attention of Democrats, whose policies have created the problem. Democratic "sanctuary cities" have taken credit for being the moral voice of immigration, but they never had to deal with actual immigrants. Accountability is a more accurate word than "punishment," but then, the author seems to have very limited tunnel vision through which she views this crisis. Oh, and to drag in communism -- well, that's the desperate move of a writer who really doesn't understand the facts.
"Accountability is a more accurate word than "punishment," but then, the author seems to have very limited tunnel vision through which she views this crisis."
People choose to live in places like Florida which are close to Venezuela, Haiti, Cuba, etc. They should be expected to deal with the consequences of their choice, including being the first stopover for those seeking refuge. People choose to live in places like Martha's Vineyard which are about as far from Venezuela as one can get and shouldn't be expected to deal with issues that confront Floridians. Alaskans don't export their snow and ice to Hawaii. They learn to adapt and deal with it themselves.
"They were asking for it."
The choices you make have consequences. Nobody is forced to live near a border, coastline, or anywhere else. Deal with your own problems and don't expect others to do so, is all.
Under that logic, they chose to live where DeSantis sent the illegals so their choices have consequences.
It's not illegal for Venezuelans to seek refuge in the US.
That's a non-sequitur.
We are obliged to choose the lesser evil. Here, it's clear that DeSantis is the lesser evil and the cabal behind slo-joe is the greater evil. Period.
---------------------------------
IF you truly cannot admit that, then the ONLY alternative is to "Refresh the Tree of Liberty." Nothing else.
Support the lesser evil or Refresh. No other choice.
Feckless whining, mere virtue-signalling, as here, is in fact choosing the GREATER evil. Because that's the history of libertarians, spoilers who enable evil by their 49-48-3 vanity.
What fuckhead libtards like Fiona always ignore is what urban planners call carrying capacity. At one time the US had lots of empty land for immigrants to live on but population growth has reached such a high level that no more room is left. I don't consider myself a tree hugger but there are now real issues with things like how we have pumped out so much water that the water table is in some places 100 feet lower than it was a hundred years ago. Places like the Southwest have relied on water imported from other states are now facing a real crisis. Big cities (almost all run by the dems) have places that have become unlivable and the problem is getting worse.
Sad to say lots of the illegal aliens entering the country are making these matters worse. They don't speak English as a rule and lack what I will call basic skills to get even the most menial job (I know some are successful but that is the exception rather than the rule). Not to mention there are real health issues they can cause.
Bottom line is that in the past the pros of immigration were greater than the cons but today that is no longer the case. Things change.
"there are now real issues with things like how we have pumped out so much water that the water table is in some places 100 feet lower than it was a hundred years ago."
If the current inhabitants have made such a mess of things that even the water supply is in jeopardy, perhaps replacing them with a more resilient, less entitled population is the best answer.
Yeah, maybe we should pursue some kind of Great Replacement or something.
Maybe that's exactly what we're doing. Ever thought of that?
I'm a libertarian with anarchist sympathies and I firmly believe that the ultimate goal should be a world where people travel between nations like U.S. citizens travel between the states, but that is in the far distant future and we will never get to that end without protecting liberty here and now. That means protecting the borders and I think DeSantis's action sending the illegals to Martha's Vineyard was a good political move to make progress toward that end.
"I think DeSantis's action sending the illegals to Martha's Vineyard was a good political move to make progress toward that end"
It's not illegal for Venezuelans to seek refuge in Florida. And you need to beef up those 'anarchist sympathies' of yours if your main take away from this kerfuffle is concern over the future of DeSantis' political career.
Seriously, that stupid hooker needs to shut up
If Ron DeSantis Hates Communism, He Shouldn't
Weaponize Victims of CommunismBe Fucking Communists Over By Their Own Policies And PreceptsGo fuck a rusty chainsaw Fiona. "Give the communists everything, even when they ask for it and whine when they get it, give them what they then whine about. If they're whining about you standing there not doing anything for them, stop standing their. Quit struggling. Even if you aren't struggling against the communists, when they take up opposition to your struggle, stop. Even if it means hurting yourself. Even if it's going to hurt them and you'll be responsible for taking care of them after they hurt themselves by your stopping, stop."
Fuck you and your shitty, lying "bowf sidez" narrative Fiona. Jump feet first into a woodchipper.
there
Bottom line: We don't like Fiona. Especially her vagina or her feet.
DeSantis should stop politicizing every issue and decision he faces - or creates - and start acting like a governor. This creep has been doing a state tour recently handing out funds on camera for programs at small towns and failing to mention that it's federal funds awarded to the state. Thank you President Biden would be the proper response, but he attacks him every day. This is not what governors usually do, nor should they. Disagree on issues, sure, but constant stunts, belittling of opposite viewpoints, and being at a verbal war with D.C. is bad and stupid.
Which brings up the almost yearly baling out of Florida, Texas, and Louisiana for hurricanes and last year Texas's inability to deal with cold weather. Sure, you'll take that money, and the money the feds send to help with immigrants, and the covid relief funds you misappropriate for bullshit like this recent trolling of people who were never in Florida. Their border is with Alabama and Georgia.
The facts? Here's John Cornyn on funds sent to Texas for immigration:
"The Senate voted on the Fiscal Year 2022 Omnibus Appropriations bill, which funds the federal government through September 30, 2022. U.S. Senator John Cornyn (R-TX) spoke about his support for the bill on the Senate floor yesterday, and below is a summary of its positive impact on Texas.
The FY 2022 Omnibus Appropriations Bill:
Equips boots on the ground on the southern border by providing $22 billion for interior enforcement and border security efforts, including equipment upgrades and tactical infrastructure along the southern border.
Supports border communities in Texas that absorb the costs from the surge of illegal immigration by directing $130 million to the Federal Emergency Management Administration (FEMA) to compensate these communities.
Cracks down on illegal drug trafficking with $296 million directed to federal-state-local partnerships, including Task Forces in Texas.
Here's Biden's plan announced in June to send immigrants to cities that can help them, starting with LA:
"The Department of Homeland Security plans to transport migrants awaiting immigration proceedings from U.S. cities along the southern border farther into the interior of the country, beginning with Los Angeles in the coming weeks, according to internal documents obtained by NBC News.
The plan would alleviate overcrowding along the border, where record numbers of border crossers have overwhelmed the capacity of shelters in some cities, at times leading Customs and Border Protection, or CBP, to release migrants on the street to fend for themselves.
Typically, migrants who are allowed to stay in the country and make asylum claims are released to shelters run by religious and nongovernmental organizations after they are released from CBP custody. From there, the migrants pay for flights and bus transportation to cities where they go before immigration judges who will rule on their asylum claims.
The new model would use federal funds to send migrants to shelters in cities farther inside the country before they go to their final destinations. Besides Los Angeles, they will be sent to Albuquerque, New Mexico; Houston; Dallas; and other cities. DHS is working with shelters in each of the cities in advance of moving migrants. The agency’s Southwest Border Coordination Center, which combines officials from the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, CBP and other agencies, is coordinating the effort. .."
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/border-surge-biden-admin-plans-send-migrants-cities-deeper-us-starting-rcna32530
Yet staring us in the face is the problem mystical bigots struggle to evade solving by repeal of prohibition laws: "Cracks down on illegal drug trafficking with $296 million directed to federal-state-local partnerships, including Task Forces in Texas". Colorado and NM eliminated almost all problems with illegal drugs by stopping cops from shooting hippies and robbing tourists over weed. Mexico has legalized personal use cocaine, but The Kleptocracy exports suicidal prohibition laws to wreck foreign economies the way it does our own.
"I know the idea is supposed to be that border states don't know when migrants will arrive, or in what numbers, so this is giving Democratic-controlled locales a taste of that. But border states are nonetheless prepared for migrant arrivals more generally."
Well if that isn't a rationalization, I don't know what is. Places that are not at the border need to be able to address the problem "more generally" as you put it since we are all part of the same country no?. Instead, they are not able to address the problem and wish to leave border towns holding the bag. Well it is time for that to end. Practice the lawlessness that you preach and deal with it equally in your own areas. And if you are unable to do so, preach something else.
This article is terrible and I really don't have to explain why beyond the fact it reads like it was written by the Biden Administration.
I have to say though, many of the commentors on here are freaking brilliant and I never thought I would learn so much from an online comment section. Thank you.
Horrible article. DeSantis owes nothing to immigrants only to the people of Florida. Unless the state secedes from the union this is a federal government problem. He must do what he can, that or take it.
Much as it pains to agree with a Republican, these results show how idiotic and suicidal it was to add terrorist and pauper importation to the migration plank in 2018. God's Own Pussygrabbers and Dems alike have more than their share of useful idiots and Trojan cavalry infiltrating the Libertarian National Committee to alienate voters.
Sending 50 anti-communists to Massachusetts isn't much, but it's a start.
They have a lot of work to do to fix that place.
I see the mainstream media is making a huge fuss over this as if this were no different than rounding up people for the concentration camps.
Except for one major detail: Biden did the same thing. In the middle of the night when no one was supposedly looking, especially the leftists trash media. He transported hundreds of illegal aliens to cities in red states hoping to dilute the conservative vote enough to keep the left in power for a long time.
Cheers to DeSantis for showing the rest of the world what hypocrites the liberal elites are and he only needed to send a couple plane loads , total 50, to MV and sit back and watch the show.
The wealthy east coast liberal elites are the worst .Hypocrites, the entire lot of them.
DeSantis should send a couple thousand to Martha's Vineyard, maybe a few murderers, rapists and child molesters to go along with it. How about a few cartel members MV? Maybe a couple dozen with criminal records would work wonders. Maybe wake you people up to reality as to what other cities, especially in Texas, Arizona and California are experiencing.
Blue States should stop virtue signaling. Martha's Vineyard has the excess wealth manage 50 migrants. Border states have been raising the alarm for decades without relief. The obscenely wealthy elitists couldn't handle a couple of days.
The Biden regime has been shipping migrants around the country. Having 50 migrants being shipped to Martha's Vineyard is worthwhile to show the hypocrisy. It becomes an issue because the left is not used to the right using the tactics of the left. The left is not used to their hypocrisy being exposed.
The policy should be "asylum seekers get sent to the richest neighborhoods first". At that point, our asylum process will become magically efficient and properly strict.
Electrical engineer turned girl-bullier Tony Heller has an entertaining post on pauper importation at realclimatescience dotcom. https://realclimatescience.com/2022/09/us-white-supremacists/
Oh, do just fuck off.
After this and multiple other articles I have come to the conclusion that REASON should openly declare itself the internet-media arm of the Republican Party. In fact, they were honest, they would put the Democrat donkey logo on their web page. I find less and less worth the read, and bid you a not-so-fond "adios".
I don't understand why so many people in the comments are calling these people "migrants". I understand why Fiona Harrigan does that, but why is everyone else?
This article is about illegal aliens. That's the term that should be used. Migrants is a term that refers to all aliens in general, both legal and illegal. I assume that people like FH use the term "migrants" because they want to disingenuously equate the two.
And if we don't call them illegal aliens, it's harder to dehumanize them, which is the main point.
No. I just explained it. The main point is that they are aliens that are not here legally. Some aliens are here legally, some are not. The ones that are not here legally are illegal aliens.
Exactly. They are aliens here illegally.
They are also not automatically people who should be granted asylum, as much as Kamala and others want the public to perceive them as such.
DeSantis is doing the communist illegals a favor, sending them to Communist Blues states where they will feel right at home.
DeSantis has chosen to view migrants as a punishment to be inflicted on blue states.
Biden and the Democrats have chosen to view migrants as a punishment (forcing them to care for these illegals) to be inflicted on red states.
I'd like an immigration policy (which is actually law on the books, but which only Trump enforced) where immigrants are required to take care of themselves without any public or private welfare, and show proof before they are admitted.
Of all the possible human suffering in the world to draw attention to, Reason published a Democrat talking point wrapper about 50 people who consented to get an airplane trip to one of the most expensive and desirable places in the world.
Really, that is weaponizing? That is suffering? Not genocide in China? Not child labor on cobalt mines for EVs? Not a Federal policy that encourages hopefuls to traverse dangerous Latin American countries to get here? Not Biden busing thousands around the country for the past year? Not small border towns flooded with illegals with the Federal government happily ignoring to suit their agenda? Not people living under bridges and dying in tractor trailers? No, it is a trip to Martha’s Vineyard.
Please, weaponize me.
It is not the United State's job, and certainly not Florida's job to save the world. We also as we are seeing cannot afford to save the world.