Seattle Public School Teachers on Strike, Since 6-Figure Pay Isn't Good Enough
After a whole year of COVID-related learning loss, kids are now losing out on even more instructional time thanks to Seattle's teachers union.
The school year didn't start yesterday, as planned, for Seattle public school students, who have gotten an impromptu extension of their summer vacation due to striking teachers.
The Seattle Education Association (SEA) began its strike on September 7, demanding higher teacher-to-student ratios, particularly in special needs and multilingual classrooms, laptops for teaching assistants, and—naturally—higher pay.
The union notes on its website that 93 percent of its members "are working more than our assigned or contract hours," while a quarter of its members log an additional 10 hours per week. Meanwhile, "the cost of living in Seattle is skyrocketing, shortages of educators are getting worse, and our pay is not keeping pace," argues SEA. Accordingly, Seattle Public Schools (SPS) "must pay all staff respectful wages and must address the unacceptably low wages for Education Support Professionals."
But public employee salaries are searchable for the state of Washington, and some 40 percent of SPS' full-time teachers actually make more than $100,000 per year, according to 2020–21 salary data reported by The Center Square (and easily searchable via this database). The pay scale for SPS teachers, which depends on tenure and educational attainment, ranges from roughly $60,000 to $123,500 annually for 7.5-hour workdays (37.5-hour workweeks) and a shorter working year than people in the private sector typically endure. That's not including pension benefits, which can be quite generous depending on the number of years teachers log in the system.
It's unclear what about these wages aren't "respectful," but they are, nevertheless, one of the major sticking points—emphasized repeatedly in materials the union has provided on its strike—that is preventing some 50,000 students and families from starting the school year.
To be sure, many teachers are now burdened by making up for lost instructional time that resulted from COVID school closures (something teachers unions played no small part in lobbying to extend). Dealing with the challenge of learning loss, with some 40 percent of K-4 Washington state students not reading at grade level, will be no small feat for teachers this school year.
Still, while public employees attempt to negotiate pay and working conditions they want, it's public school parents who are left in the lurch, with no viable alternatives and no real means of holding their school district accountable—other than by taking the drastic step of pulling kids out of public school entirely, a threat more and more parents have made good on over the last two years.
The customer (as opposed to the employer) feels the pain when government school employees strike.
The employer has no incentive to change to help teachers or students.
School choice would fix this problem by providing real accountability.
— Corey A. DeAngelis, school choice evangelist (@DeAngelisCorey) September 7, 2022
"I have gone from a cheerleader for public schools to a believer in school choice," one Seattle public school parent, who wishes to stay anonymous, tells Reason. "I have lost any faith I had in public sector unions. Top of scale teachers are making a ridiculous amount of money, more than I make as a senior-level tech worker," she adds, emphasizing that while she didn't always feel this way, the low quality of instruction provided by SPS over the years has been disheartening.
"My kid should be in the second day of her senior year, not playing video games on our couch."
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Give them the Reagan/ PATCO treatment.
Neither the Democratic Seattle City Council, the Democratic Mayor of Seattle, nor Governor Inslee (D) have any incentive to do so. They’d piss off their benefactors and money launderers if they did that.
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Wake up and fire them the next time they are up for re-election or live with what you voted for.
Where they gonna go? the Republicans?
Disband the union and fire all the teachers?
What about the dipshit admin staff?
All public sector unions should be illegal.
Oh, but surely you’d spare the Equity Officers!
I’m afraid they would all “slip on some tea”
“Give them the Reagan/PATCO treatment.”
“I sure miss voting for that man.” -Hank Hill
When I was a senior in high school, 30 years ago, we had an elderly senile math teacher who would fall asleep in class make $100,000 a year because he had been a teacher for so long
On the flip side, a few years earlier I had a brand new (and hot) teacher have to moonlight as a cocktail waitress because she wasn’t making much
It’s pretty much the problem with union jobs. Pay is based on tenure, not ability
Yes, we should definitely pay the hot teachers more.
Hot teacher pay should be based on how much skin they show.
What about tipping?
Well, if a particular (and particularly hot) teacher goes above and beyond…
hear hear!
My sophomore year of HS, we had a Philadelphia Eagles cheerleader as a substitute gym teacher for one day. Evidently they don’t get paid much. She taught the male juniors when I was in gym that period. All of the male gym teachers kept wandering over to see if she needed help. All of the boys in her class were mooning over her. The female gym teachers, all of whom we assumed were lesbians, spent the entire scowling time at her.
IIRC, tall redhead, perfect makeup. Absolutely form-fitting tracksuit.
Merit is triggering, patriarchy, racist, and misogynist.
If that doesn’t serve to end the discussion anywhere on the West Coast, I don’t know what would.
It shouldn’t be based on ability either. It should be based on the job you do and how well you do it. A PhD in math teaching algebra shouldn’t get more because of the PhD.
I had a calculus professor one time who spent 50 minutes of a 55 minute class session going over the proof of the problem, instead of teaching how to do the problem. Test averages were below 50% all semester. Very few passed his tests (and he didn’t curve). This was Calc 1 and many of his test problems were the same as ones he used in his Differential class or higher. He was brilliant but simply couldn’t teach. If you were a math proteges his class was awesome, otherwise you failed miserably. Retook the class next semester with a biology professor who also taught Calc 1. Learned far more from her than the genius mathematician.
This was also the reason I switched from engineering to biology, didn’t love calculus enough to continue I’m engineering.
And that’s what mathematicians do, and if you take math classes as part of your future job requirements, you better start liking that sort of thing. If you don’t, then math, or anything relying on math, is the wrong field for you. In college, it’s not the job of professors anymore to make things easy for you.
I’d say the math professor did his job then.
An example of why paying based on credentials is insane, which is the norm in teaching, along with tenure. The quality of my teachers had nothing to do with credentials. It was almost entirely based on the ability and desire to teach (imagine that), as long as there was a knowledge base (which most have).
Credentialism infects to much of society and tends to create more problems than it cures. I was just discussing with my friend yesterday as we were putting in a new stock tank on my place how stupid it was for the Army to do away with the Spec-5 and above rank, which is a symptom of the credentialism. We also see it in nursing. Alphabet nurses with tons of credentials but almost no actual clinical experience in leadership roles, deciding scope of practices and standards of care for actual floor nurses who treat patients but don’t go to every fancy class that comes along.
My career was in the corporate world. Luckily credentials and tenure pretty much disappeared as criteria for pay in the 80s/90s. I had 30 year-olds and 45 year-olds working for me in the same position who had virtually the same pay. And they thought nothing of it. Imagine telling this to union dolts.
Same problem in public construction – it’s very consultant-heavy, and the more credentials a consultant has, the more he can charge, even though the more credentials he has the less he actually knows about how things get built.
I recruited and helped develop and train petroleum geologists for a couple of decades. To get on the professional track, we required a MS (we rarely hired BS holders, and almost always for tech/support positions). PhD holders usually got a slightly hiring starting salary compared to MS holders, but within 3 or 4 years, grades and salaries were entirely determined by performance.
I had a professional blues musician teaching blues harmonica courses that was the same way. Man, he could play. Was well known. Had played Carnegie Hall even. And, loved to talk about all the gigs he’d played with now deceased, bluesmen who commercially developed the genre in the first place.
But he absolutely sucked as a teacher!
When I was a senior in high school, 25 years ago, I went to a private school that made a profit at $4k per student per year when the district we were in cost us $16k per student as taxpayers.
Academically we outperformed them in every way. It was not close. They did usually beat us in football.
Yeah but the school district has to hire a lot of counselors and adminstrators to make sure they are doing it right. I wonder what percentage of Seattle school district funding actually goes to teacher pay.
The quickest way to vastly improve eduation in the USA would be to close down all the public schools, sell the buildings to the highest bidder, and stop collecting taxes to fund them. Parents would have more money to spend, schools would have to compete for students, excess administrators would be seen as an unprofitable burden, and parents would push their kids to do better academically, since they would be paying for it directly.
Some parents couldn’t afford school, but so many people are worried about that they would have no problem funding scholarships or charity schools.
“and parents would push their kids to do better academically”
Some. Not all.
As much as we dis public education, this is one of he main problems in the first place. Plenty of kids attending school for reasons other than learning. And, they’re happy to muck up the learning for everyone else. They take up the majority of a teacher’s time. Because administration won’t deal with them either, lest they be called some bad ism term.
Exactly, and seems like a lot of pay for doing a bit of “indoctrination”; paying into a guaranteed pension; and only “working “ 9 months a year. But, of course, there’s that union “master” to be fed and followed. I’m sure they’re plenty of resourceful, competent teachers but they’re likely greatly subservient to the greedy union administrative types. Bad time to be a public school student.
are kids really losing out? close the conformity factories.
I also know, directly from a now completely retired teacher who spent 35 years in the Seattle Public Schools, that senior teachers are being allowed to retire and collect their full pension while being hired back under “emergency measure” to make up for the “teacher shortage” that they create by retiring. They have been engaging in that blatantly contract and statute violating double dipping since the late 90s without repercussions.
PEUs have an inherent conflict of interest. The union members make up a significant portion of the body representing management. The courts need to intercede.
Just fire all of them. The whole lot of them. Seattle will save a pretty penny and the kids won’t be any worse off.
Suddenly they want free market pay? Capitalism?
Methinks they are as duplicitous as ever. Tell them “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”, and that because they haven’t been teaching for two years, zero ability means zero pay.
$30K per student? Yeah, give parents $20K/kid if they want to go elsewhere. They’ll get a better education, and the state will still save money.
I guess its easy to justify your argument if you are pulling facts out of your A.
Total budget is $1.14 Billion Roughly 53,000 students. Works out to about $21K per student.
Private schools have more power to selectively choose students and to expel them from the system. So where do you suppose kids with severe autism go? Do private schools offer 1 on 1 supervision when necessary?
The $30k number is from the article. Please pay attention.
Seattle Public Schools are budgeted to spend over $30,000 per student this school year
Read the article.
“So where do you suppose kids with severe autism go?”
THEY STAY WITH THE PUBLIC SCHOOL.
Pull your head out of your ass.
Why does the public owe anyone schooling? Especially “special needs” students” or, those who really don’t want to be schooled in the first place?
In this case it’s because the (voter approved) state constitution says so.
There are many private schools and organizations that would be happy to support kids with severe autism or other disabilities if they had the money the public schools get. Outside of a small percentage, most private schools are founded by religious groups or other organizations as a charitable endeavor and would see serving this community as part of their mission.
The first two things I’d Institute is a requirement that teachers furnish their own medical and pension. The way it is right now, do unions sneak in “Cadillac” Health plans and insanely generous retirement benefits to obfuscate the per year pay. Next you could demand contracts based on hourly pay instead of annual. I’m in Michigan and my kids teachers are making $500 a day. They frequently have unofficial strikes where they just turn on a TV and a videotape let the kids watch a movie all hour. Their justification if you talk to them is that we pay so much for CEOs in basketball and movie stars that they are underpaid. We don’t hire very intelligent people to be teachers, they might have good memories and can memorize patterns but they aren’t disciplined or hired to practice abstract thought.
Nor can they hit a curveball
Who’s stopping them from becoming CEO’s in basketball or movie stars?
Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach.
Those who can’t teach, teach gym.
I’m wondering how quickly I’d be banned from twitter if I got #ATAB to trend? Because #ACAB is 100% acceptable.
“I have gone from a cheerleader for public schools to a believer in school choice,” one Seattle public school parent, who wishes to stay anonymous, tells Reason. “I have lost any faith I had in public sector unions. Top of scale teachers are making a ridiculous amount of money, more than I make as a senior-level tech worker,” she adds, emphasizing that while she didn’t always feel this way, the low quality of instruction provided by SPS over the years has been disheartening.”
So there is some small hope? It takes losing skin in the game to bring someone around from a position of ideology to what the fuck?
In the next election, she’ll be voting for the candidate with a “New Progressive Vision for Seattle”. I guarantee it.
Also the candidate with the highest intersectionality score.
No, there’s no hope. She’s like most people: was a supporter without having a clue as to the quality of performance. And she didn’t know enough about the obvious problems of public sector unions to guess that this one probably sucked too.
Those that can do
Those that can’t, teach
Those that cant teach strike for more pay.
Change the teachers contracts to expire at the end of the term. They’ll have all unpaid summer to negotiate.
All hail the party of Science!™
https://www.dailywire.com/news/nearly-1-in-4-democratic-voters-believe-men-can-get-pregnant-poll
To understand why Democrats would believe something so utterly stupid, you should at least understand their underlying argument.
Sex and gender are separate. The label “woman” and “man” are “gendered” labels, having nothing to do with biological sex. To be a man, one merely need to “present” as a man, using stereotypical male traits, which might included “masculine voice tones”, non-feminine clothing, short hair etc. Once one “presents” as a “man”, then one is referred to as a man, regardless of underlying biology. Therefore a biological woman who is presenting as a man and therefore has acquired the label and associated pronouns of “man” can get pregnant. There fore, “men” can get pregnant.
It’s weapons grade retardation that doesn’t even deserve the word “logic” attached, but there you have it.
The label “woman” and “man” are “gendered” labels, having nothing to do with biological sex.
Except that you also need to be a certified Biologist to define “woman”.
And surgery to affirm it.
Or these dipshits could spend a year working on a farm.
I can buy that sex and gender are not the same thing. It’s true in languages with grammatical gender – masculine or feminine gender is usually attached to words describing male or female beings, respectively, but it’s not an ironclad rule. If you want to say that gender refers to behavior or role, then it’s not the same thing as sex.
The problem the Left has is that they want to use the words “man” and “woman” for gender roles as opposed to sex. The English language does not have separate words for “person of one of the sexes” and “person of one of the genders”. There’s not a word for a person who has the feminine gender regardless of sex, so they’ve co-opted the word “woman” for that.
So the Obfuscation of definitions and concepts is working…
Yep. From now own, I’m black.
Does anyone have the right to argue with me?
OK, that’s way more confusing than that Billy Crystal movie Rabbit Test I saw as a kid in the 70s.
https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-community-voices/was-famous-pregnant-man-thomas-beatie-now-rcna1328
The question asked was: Do you agree with the statement “Some men can get pregnant.” Only takes one…
Technically two, or else the question would have been “Do you believe some man can …”.
Before I started teaching late in life, I thought teachers worked 37.5 hours a week, too. No. I put in 60-90 hours a week. The 37.5 is mostly when one is in the classroom. It does not include lesson planning and grading, grading, grading.
I taught at Bellevue, a rich suburb of Seattle. Pay was about $60,000 a year with a masters degree and 6 years experience, almost double what I got in Arizona.
I worked summer school every year because $60,000 in Seattle is definitely less than one would think. I worked through my vacations. It is not a 9-5 job.
I would never have taught in Seattle itself. OMG. Classroom management. Life is too short to subject myself to that punishment.
That may sound cold but my students did well and I got many heartfelt letters. I hate teachers unions yet I support teachers. If they need smaller classroom numbers, yes, that is reasonable.
Well this is a lie. BLS does surveys by profession where the individuals in each field log the total hours worked. Every survey they do shows teachers under 40 hours a week.
I worked a bar/pub near multiple high schools. At 330 a dozen teachers would roll in to drink. Grading a paper at the slowest rate possible complaining about all their work they basically ignored.
In the first year or two teachers used to have to do lesson plans and they would work more. But hours always reduced after years as they reused lesson plans. Now they just buy lesson plans from others online.
So youre full of shit.
By the way. That 37.5 hours generally includes 2 free hours and a lunch. They do not clock out for that time.
I mean they work do hard they need lounges when they can be doing grading. Lol. They never do. And yes I have multiple family members who teach. They all say after the first year they work under 40 hours.
So, something like 70% of teachers are thinking about quiting. They must be insane! Its all cocktails and cash!
Or… as you gloss over,the hours required to be at work vs. the total number of hours the job entails doesn’t match up.
Also grading papers at a bar – how convenient. You can get hammered and still do your job.
As for online lesson plans, you have to dump what you’ve been doing for years and switch to what someone else is doing. And when the county decides to switch to Math 2.0 or 3.0 or 4.0 you have switch again – relearning the ‘new and improved’ way to teach whatever. Next,you have to deal with parents that cannot understand why Johnny didn’t get an ‘A’….. well Johnny might just be average… so ‘B’ get over it.
BTW, I worked with a guy that observed some people coming in to work at 9am. He also observed some leaving for lunch at 11:30 and some returning from lunch at 1:30. Finally he observed some leaving for home at 4pm. So… he decided to work 9-4 with a 2 hour lunch break. What he failed to realize was that on average, people were working 8 plus hours not including 1 hr for lunch…. He was warned once, and then.. let go.
wrong…I taught last year and worked almost 60hrs. I was at school ar 7am, left at 5pm and worked through my lunch. Then worked another 10 plus hours a week at home..but whatever.
“The union notes on its website that 93 percent of its members “are working more than our assigned or contract hours,” while a quarter of its members log an additional 10 hours per week. Meanwhile, “the cost of living in Seattle is skyrocketing, shortages of educators are getting worse, and our pay is not keeping pace,” argues SEA. Accordingly, Seattle Public Schools (SPS) “must pay all staff respectful wages and must address the unacceptably low wages for Education Support Professionals.” ”
All of these problems are caused by government intervention and the unions want to pile on more.
Yeah, that 180-day work year is tough.
And??????
When I started working after college, 90-100 weeks were common for middle managers if you wanted to advance. And pretty much had to be in the office lest you not be seen paying your dues.
And, we had nothing like the number of holidays, vacation and summer downtime that teachers got and, still get. The very concept of closing schools for a summer break is archaic and a costly, inefficient use of public assets. Any private industry engaging in this would get their lunch handed to them by efficient competitors.
Adding to my comment below, I strongly support charter schools, vouchers and home schooling. Unless students are in a top school like the one where I taught in Bellevue, public schools have their good points yet they are also stifling prisons of tedium, conformity and make-work. Charter schools work for children in underprivileged communities and it is an injustice to repress them. Also, vocational training needs a real boost.
Vouchers, like $2K are not enough for poor people to pick private schools. And if your kid is special need, your cost could easily be double to triple the average student.
Home schooling is usually and excuse for religious indoctrination. Not enough prayer to a mythical god in public school. Not to mention home schooled kids grow up weird…
If, when compared to the products of public schools, you find home-schooled children “weird”, than “weird” must be a compliment meaning “polite, well-adjusted and knowledgeable”. Because that’s been my experience with the few dozen home-schooled children I’ve known.
As for the “religious indoctrination” slur, maybe we should go a decade and for every adolescent murderer, rapist or druggie, mention in the news story that they were *cue ominous music* “a product of public schools”. I think you’d find that a vast majority of our most prolific criminals were the beneficiaries of your beloved “public school” teaching.
Please tell me about the pink clown hair brigade origins again?
LOL. Worn out cliche much?
Starting at $60k? If that’s true…wtf! I’m sorry, some 25 year old who marries another teacher and brings in $120 together is fabulous. And after what, 10 years they are making $200K? And come on teachers. We know some wok long hours but I guarantee that half of you are working 40 hrs a week and get at least 2 months off in the summer and holidays during the year. I know some work harder. English teachers grade papers at night. Young teachers prep extra. But with time they all become efficient and then they figure out how to pad their salaries with summer school gigs. It may be a high cost of living in Seattle but you build a lot of equity in your house and can retire to less cost of living areas.
The average house price in Seattle is $840K. If you use the old rule that you salary needs to be 1/3 the cost, even with the $200K you will not qualify. In fact, two teachers will never be able to afford ‘average’
There’s a lot of unwinding from that comment to be done but I think there’s many layers of f-ups before you get to the teachers not making enough to afford an 840k house.
If the average is $840K then the 20% down is $168. House would be in the $672K range. Find one below average and in need of a little fix and that $200K is in the ballpark for 1/3. Also, in a high priced area the income ratio is higher with the right bank and conditions. In five years you are likely on the other side of the 1/3 with increase in salary and housing value. Buy smart. Be willing to do a little work yourself.
So why do houses cost so much in Seattle? I’ll be it’s those darn Capitalists, amiright?
That’s true all over the country. And, it has not a valid justification for pay levels.
Besides, wouldn’t it violate equity concepts if teachers could make more just by moving to a more desirable place?
“The union notes on its website that 93 percent of its members are working more than our assigned or contract hours….
But public employee salaries are searchable for the state of Washington….”
Note to Liz and the SEA: If you have contract hours you’re not salaried.
I meant you’re not a professional.
….not a professional.
I’ll let my lawyer know…
Most distressing teacher story I know about personally. My niece’s 6th grade teacher wasn’t correcting spelling mistakes in writing assignments. Her father went to see the teacher to express concern. The teacher said it was useless to point out mistakes, since spelling can’t be learned. (This was the mid-90’s.)
The teacher said it was useless to point out mistakes, since spelling can’t be learned. (This was the mid-90’s.)
And now here we are.
And now we know that spelling is racist white privilege. See, knowledge still advances.
She was ahead of her time!
She helped fill our prisons to create the prison industrial complex.
I guess these teachers do not understand basic economics. (Snide comment: many do not understand basic math, so not a surprise.)
Anyway, in a form at least close to a free market exchange, both parties agree on the value of something. And like most salespeople, they might start their pitch with “How much are you looking to spend?”
Families and taxpayers have made this pretty clear. Maybe teachers can’t accept that, along with district admins and all kinds of extraneous staff. And of course no union official or political lackey would ever admit to the basic concept.
I suggest we put the whole education thing out for contract, like much other government spending. Offer to pay so much per kid, with a set of educational standards and performance metrics. The school district establishment can compete with private enterprises for the annual contract. If the government teachers get underbid, tough shit.
Thing is, the Dem-controlled legislature will mandate union employees, “for the children”. And don’t think the ever-more-massive layer of administrators, advisors and counselors won’t be mandated as well. Also “for the children”.
Sure, private entities would be able to bid for the job, but would be required to do it as poorly as the Teachers’ Unions have been doing.
They don’t need to understand economics. They understand mob rule.
And their unions understand extortion.
They’re covered.
An ex-GF is a teacher in Seattle. She was posting about walking the picket lines, I didn’t show any sympathy. I worked year round as an university professor, and made half of what she did working less than nine months of the year. And had far worse benefits.
Fot the 2018-2019 school year, 65% of students met 3rd grade reading requirements and 60% met 5th grade math. Rates for minorty students was half that. I am sure it is way lower in the covid era. Getting your job right less than 2/3 of the time is down in meteorologist and politician level. And they think they deserve more money.
https://www.seattletimes.com/education-lab/seattle-public-schools-has-a-new-performance-report-the-achievement-gap-isnt-part-of-it/
Since, per race grift…err…gurus like Ibrahim Kendi, all racial disparities in results are signs of racism, we will need more layers of anti-racist consultants to combat that. So yeah, mo’ money!!
I am sure it is way lower in the covid era. Getting your job right less than 2/3 of the time is down in meteorologist and politician level.
If only dealing with kids was as predictable as the weather… And if politicians are so poor at their jobs, whey do they almost always get reelected?
No sympathy, whatsoever. The way to tell me your a useless, overpaid idiot: ” Hello, I am a public school teacher.”
And, if you provoke them, even in jest, they’ll be happy to tell you how much smarter they are than most people, have advanced degrees they earned during their summertime off and thus, deserve much higher pay and benefits than they’re getting. I mean, why shouldn’t they be paid more than a union plumber? You know?
Guaranteed to happen with [WE] mobs RULE! ideology (i.e. Pure-Democracy) being backed with Gov-Guns…
Perhaps seeing it for what it really is; ARMED-ROBBERS lobbying for MORE guns because $100,000/yr is enough theft. How much theft is too much theft for a ‘legal’ armed-robber? Why were Gov-GUNS ever needed to educate people anyways? WRONG TOOL……………
The pay scale for SPS teachers, which depends on tenure and educational attainment, ranges from roughly $60,000 to $123,500 annually for 7.5-hour workdays (37.5-hour workweeks) and a shorter working year than people in the private sector typically endure.
For comparison, I earn $52k/year teaching at a public school in Florida (this is my 20th year teaching – and by the way, Gov. DeSantis made a big thing about increasing beginning teacher pay in Florida over the last two years. I make the same amount as someone that had their first year in the classroom two years ago when that happened). I doubt that cost of living in my area is as high as Seattle, but the raise we negotiated for this year almost covers how much my rent went up when I renewed my lease in June.
I should also point out that citing a teacher’s contract hours is not the same thing at all as calling that our workday or workweek. The contract hours are the times that we are required to be at school. As exempt (salaried – no overtime) employees, we work however many hours it takes to do our job. Some teachers can manage to do their jobs just within contract hours (probably PE teachers or those that teach some electives that have little to grade), but the SPS said that this was not the case for 93% of its members, and around 1/4th worked an additional 10 hours or more than contract hours. (48hr+ workweek). And even those PE teachers often coach sports for a supplement that would work out to minimum wage if they calculated the hours they put into that. (I coached golf for several years, and did the math once, to my regret.)
Lastly, we aren’t paid for that extra time off. My district, for instance, doesn’t even offer a way to spread my salary out for a full year. I have to make sure I’m saving for the summer or else find extra work to have money to live. (It matters for other reasons as well. For instance, if we run out of sick time and are out without pay, the amount docked is calculated based on our contract – 196 days.)
It certainly sounds like very good pay in Seattle compared to Florida. But I don’t know what kind of compensation other professionals with college degrees receive in that area. I teach Chemistry and Physics and have a M.S. in Physics. A mechanical engineer with a master’s degree in my area would be earning about double my salary with similar benefits, according to Payscale.
There is a lot that unions that I am a member of (national, state, and local) did wrong during the pandemic. But picking union actions in super-blue cities and excoriating them as if all teachers and their unions are the same is hardly fair. Of course, being fair might not be the point. If the point is to make all teachers and their unions look greedy, then that is definitely the way to do it.
So this is not as clear as Reason is making it out. My daughter is a Seattle Teacher and while she actually opted out of the Union, because generally they suck, she is not supportive of the districts position in this case. It is true the teachers are well paid, although those figures include their very expensive benefits package, but the strike is not actually about pay. Class sizes of kids with IEP’s are quite large. My daughter has 32 kids in her class and the majority have learning disabilites. The district refuses to get more help. They also won’t provide for substitutes and teachers are forced to cover other classes. This means extra planning time at home. Also, the district wanted the union to sign off on their right to strike, which no union can do.
Lastly, the idea that teachers work 37.5 hours a week is absurd. In addition to class time, there is lesson prep and grading and parent communication. If a teacher works less than 55hrs a week, they are lucky. That is a full years worth of work
“the majority have learning disabilites”
That’s 80% of the students in CA public schools. But no one will say the bald truth: It starts at home!
wrong…I taught last year and worked almost 60hrs. I was at school ar 7am, left at 5pm and worked through my lunch. Then worked another 10 plus hours a week at home..but whatever.
Did the same for most all of my working life post college.
But hey, I wasn’t a teacher.
“My kid should be in the second day of her senior year, not playing video games on our couch.”
If your kid is sitting on the sofa playing video games, YOU are the problem. Yu have abdicated yuor children’s education to those overpaid incopetent yahoos in the union, and deserve whatever they dish out.
What , will your kid still be sitting on the chesterfield playing video games in another ten years?
Sounds like someone is jealous that they are not smart enough to form and/or join a union.
I’m now reminded of a Russian joke about a guy who wants God to kill his neighbor’s goat because he doesn’t have one.
UNIONS! Protecting the bad workers and discouraging the good workers since the beginning of unions. The shitty workers form them, and then get the shittier workers to join them.
^^^^^^ This!
And, due to “closed shop” rules, I’ve been a member of several unions in my lifetime.
It’s what irritated me most about the unions. This penchant, which many justified on legal grounds, for making sure the worst of the worst retained the jobs they had while doing nothing to support those who were meritorious.
I don’t think you all clearly understand what the strike is about. Yes money is involved, just because a teacher maxes at “6 Figures” meaning like $124,000 doesn’t mean they are greedy! That’s usually after 20 years of service,
Hey, working 9 months a year ain’t easy. You have to plan what to do with your free summers and long winter breaks. Vacations ain’t cheap.
I don’t think you all clearly understand what the strike is about. Yes money is involved, just because a teacher maxes at “6 Figures” meaning like $124,000 doesn’t mean they are greedy! That’s usually after 20 years of service. 20 years teaching your children. Also don’t forget, a lot of the supplies in the classroom come out of the pockets of the teachers. Our science teachers where I work get ZERO public funding, the SCIENCE department… Crazy huh? So who pays for all that? The teachers…
It also includes Parapros like myself who make $36-52,000 a year in a place where the average rent is $2000 for a one bedroom! What if you have a family? You LOVE being a part of the growing child’s educational experience, but at what cost? My son works 2-3 jobs beyond his work at the school as a parapro.
We are only asking for a livable wage.
BUT that is only a part of the problem…. The integration of Special Ed children into mainstream classes is another! When you take different levels of Special Ed children and put them in with mainstream students it does NOT enhance their learning experience. We did that last year in the science classes because WA state insisted that the only way for them to graduate is if they take the mainstream science. IT WAS HORRIBLE! Those children were so sad, they did not get what was going on, we as parapros could only make it make so much sense and the test they took at the end, although modified was impossible for them to navigate and they did quite poorly and felt terrible.
Now they want to do that with more of the classes. That is a disservice to the children both Special Ed and mainstream, and the teachers who are not Spec. Ed teachers, not they have to come up with 3+ dfferent levels of curriculam ON TOP of everything else. Liek basically posting grades every night as the parents insist on it as do some students, email home to the parents that request that and so on and on.
And now we navigate active shooter drills, and our schol actually had bomb threats and shooter threats so that we had to be in lockdown for hours and then send everyone home. Can you imagine being in a room with children that tend to escalate under stress, RIGHT AFTER the shooting in Texas, and soothing them while they process that we are having to stay in a room because that could be happening at this moment in their school…so stay still, don’t move, don’t panic, don’t run out the door, don’t cry, don’t scream, don’t break out in hysterical laughter…
So while you are all up in arms about the liberal nature of paying the system that has your children and giving a livable wage to those same people you should probably look at less of “A Liberal Agenda” and more of a MAJOR building block in YOUR CHILD’S life by people who have dedicated theirs to that purpose. You want your children to learn and love school, help us do that!
Also if you want to gripe about salaries, pick on people that make ridiculous salaries and avoid taxes but wreak havoc on our roads, clog up our highways not just with commuter cars but trucks carrying equipment etc. that beat up the roads so we always need to repare or widen them.
Or how about the CEOs of Ruget Sound Energy…do you know most make over 1 Million, some up to 4.5 MILLION DOLLARS? Yeah, check it out https://www1.salary.com/PUGET-SOUND-ENERGY-INC-Executive-Salaries.html. “As President and Chief Executive Officer at PUGET SOUND ENERGY INC, Mary E. Kipp made $4,414,245 in total compensation. Of this total $923,923 was received as a salary, $3,388,708 was received as a bonus, $0 was received in stock options, $0 was awarded as stock and $101,614 came from other types of compensation.” This information is according to proxy statements filed for the 2021 fiscal year.That’s a UTILITY Company! Unless they are riding bikes and producing the energy themselves, what are they getting paid like that for?
So yeah, Seattle City light CEO makes like $350,000
Seriously people, you are going to pick on some teachers that teach for 20+ years and make $124,000 at the end??? Come on!
When you take different levels of Special Ed children and put them in with mainstream students it does NOT enhance their learning experience. We did that last year in the science classes because WA state insisted that the only way for them to graduate is if they take the mainstream science. IT WAS HORRIBLE! Those children were so sad, they did not get what was going on, we as parapros could only make it make so much sense and the test they took at the end, although modified was impossible for them to navigate and they did quite poorly and felt terrible.
There is a very wide range of disabilities that children can have that result in having an IEP created. (Individual Education Plan) For some, relatively small accommodations are sufficient for a child to have the same chance of success as their peers without any special needs. For others, even a dedicated paraprofessional in the classroom full time along with the regular subject area teacher would not be sufficient, and they would be set up for failure to be mainstreamed.
The terminology I encounter in my various trainings on students with disabilities, as a regular ed science teacher, is that SWD students should always be placed in the “least restrictive environment” possible. For too many, that means putting them in the same classroom along with 25-30 or more regular education students and a regular education teacher that is supposed to accommodate all of that child’s needs without it detracting from the regular ed students or the other students with special needs in that same classroom. Referring to these students as having special needs means exactly that. Even those with the lowest need for additional support increase the time and workload of every educator tasked with assisting them.
As a regular education science teacher, I have been assigned students that were non-verbal, students with well below-average IQ, students with social and behavioral disabilities, as well as the more common disabilities that people may have heard something about. I do my best to help every child in my classroom learn, but there is no question that each additional student with special needs adds to my workload and makes it more difficult to address the needs of all of my students. If the Seattle teachers union is correct in that insufficient resources and assistance is being provided to classroom teachers in this area, then it is something worth fighting for.
this “mainstreaming” trend is one of the biggest jokes in education. My daughter teaches science in WA state and as mentioned, they do it there, but it is everywhere. Current educational theory is broken.
Yes absolutely different levels of need among Spec. Ed kids. And NO I do not agree with anyone who puts 25-30 special needs kids in a room and forgetting about them, this isn’t Dicken’s era education. Most moderate classes have no more than 15 children in them. Of course more functioning children can go into the mainstream with a parapro and do quite well.
What we had was mainstream science with kids with down syndrome, emotional behavorial issues and low functioning autistic, as well as children with some of those and ESL needs.
One of the kids that spoke another language had no idea what we were talking about until I pulled her out and used Google translate and some other apps and she burst into tears finally understanding what we were talking about… but that ddn’t cover the movies, lectures, etc. And while I one of 2 paras am out in the hall that leaves one person with all the other 8 students.
But when we had special ed science, the 10 kids in the class did great! Loved the curriculam, got the help they needed and did not feel left out or stupid.
So yeah, I am not looking for a “let’s stick the kids in a closet” solution, not even close. I am talking about creating classes that teach and create the joy of learning.
In our society, the market determines wages.
Who the fuck gets to say what a “livable wage” is?
The fast food workers are looking to organize so that they can get a “livable wage” as well. They’ve already set a target. If that’s the “livable wage”, teachers should be prepared for a massive cut in pay, benefits and terms of employment.
In our society, the market determines wages.
In an ideal free market for labor, sure. But there is no such thing as an ideal free market, just as there is no such thing as an ideal gas or frictionless, inclined planes. They are simplified models that are only valid when the deviations of reality from those simplifying assumptions are small enough for the models to give you something at least close how the world really behaves. Drop a rock a few meters, and you’d need very precise timing to notice the effect of air resistance on its motion. A piece of paper, a feather, or even nerf ball would be a different story.
The biggest evidence of this is when you compare the compensation of teachers in public schools vs. private schools. At first glance, the huge gap in average salary might make public school teachers look overpaid, especially when looking at the better private schools with tuition in the tens of thousands of dollars. A counter might be that private school teachers are underpaid. But the truth is that they are simply different labor markets.
Private schools generally have considerably smaller class sizes, for one thing. Second, private schools have no requirement to hire teachers with state licenses. Aside: my view is that this is both good and bad. Good for clearly qualified subject area experts that want to become teachers, bad for the smaller, less rigorous private schools that hire people with neither any training in education nor sufficient knowledge of the subject. There are private schools that can receive vouchers in Florida that do little more than have a ‘teacher’ supervising students as they work through canned homeschool material.
Most important, I think, is that private school teachers don’t have to deal with the testing, documentation of giving accommodations for students with special needs, not being able to reach parents when the phone number on file is out of date (or the student deliberately filled out the updated contact information form at the beginning of the year with fake numbers), parents that don’t care or make unreasonable demands, politics, and on and on. Oh, and some teachers do want to teach at a school where they can share their faith with students, parents, and colleagues. ~80% of private schools are religious.
In the end, you can look at turnover and the ability to fill vacancies to see if compensation is adequate. The data is not fine grained enough to say that there is a “national teacher shortage”, but there are definitely states and districts struggling with large numbers of open positions after school has started. According to Florida Dept. of Education data, they expected over 9000 vacancies on the first day of school. I haven’t found how many positions were still open recently, though. (The school year in Florida starts on Aug. 10 in many districts, with few going much later than that.)
It has long been observed that a large proportion of new teachers leave the profession after just a few years, even with them having invested time and money on college degrees and certifications. Surveys consistently put the figure at around half of new teachers staying past 5 years.
Also according to Florida DOE data, the number of young people training to be teachers is well short of the number of vacancies in the vast majority of subject areas. Math, English, physical science, and general science see only 1 new teacher graduating from college or other training programs in the state for every 5 openings.
To me, all of this is evidence that the supply of qualified teachers is well short of the demand, at least in Florida. What happens to labor compensation when that happens in a free market?
Exactly! That is why in King county they will pay your college if you sign on to be a Special Ed. teacher for I think years. Great program.
Yeah I 100% agree with you about the licensed vs. None. I have met MSW and the like level people that could not fiigure out how to use google to get a resource or think outside any box.
I do think for the vast majority of jobs that they have made into pointless cert. courses, they could be tested out and the folks with the most common sense would pass and those without will go to college, lol and then become bereaucrats :p
Median Income for a Utility Line Wrkr King County
Avarage Salary
$116,404/yr
https://govsalaries.com/salaries/utility-line-wrkr-2nd-3rd-salary
Wastewater Treatment Sup
Average Salary
$179,993/yr
There is a massive shortage of wastewater treatment operators nationwide. This has been so for a decade or more. As there is in other trades. Because up and coming workers think there’s something shitty about a job, requiring a fair amount of technical skill in wastewater treatment. This benefits those willing to bite the bullet, suffer disparagement and class standing and go where the money is despite the blue nose attitudes towards such work.
We have no shortage here. So yeah, whatever….and funny you only spoke to the one thing…regardless, https://www.bls.gov/ooh/production/water-and-wastewater-treatment-plant-and-system-operators.htm
In fact it is a field going into decline…
Whereas Teaching is on the increase. From 0.9% all the way to a whopping 30.2%! WHOOOAAAAA!
https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_wa.htm#25-0000
There is a teacher shortage…why because they don’t make much and working at a wastewater plant is preferable to risking health (Every day last year 6-21 people were home due to CV19 related issues, plus the new fun of guns and bomb threats, kids that attack, parents that can’t be pleased and so much more)
SO yeah, if you’re going to make a point, make a real one.
If unions stress you out, don’t join one. Its a workable way to effectively bring change across the board. Our union has done right by the children and us and continues to do so.
Why do you all have such a problem with that? Why are you so made about the wages teachers make for working pretty much round the clock, especially in Special Ed? Man I hope you all aren’t parents, you’re just chasing your tail and living on the fuel of misdirected anger.
Deborah Smith J Overview
Deborah Smith J in 2020 was employed in City of Seattle and had annual salary of $391,548 according to public records. This salary is 351 percent higher than average and 341 percent higher than median salary in City of Seattle.
Emeka Yinka Anyanwu in 2020 was employed in City of Seattle and had annual salary of $287,342 according to public records. This salary is 231 percent higher than average and 224 percent higher than median salary in City of Seattle.
Ted Buparat S in 2020 was employed in City of Seattle and had annual salary of $277,050 according to public records. This salary is 219 percent higher than average and 212 percent higher than median salary in City of Seattle.
https://govsalaries.com/salaries/WA/city-of-seattle?year=2020
What’s so cool about this site is you can go through and see how the City Of Seattle employees received a $10-20,000 cost of living increase from 2015 till now. Do you begrudge them that? Why pick on teachers?
Edit
https://govsalaries.com/salaries/WA/city-of-seattle?year=2020
What’s so cool about this site is you can go through and see how the City Of Seattle employees received a $10-20,000 cost of living increase from 2015 PER YEAR till now. Do you begrudge them that? Why pick on teachers?
The real goal is not to pick on teachers, per se. It is to pick on teacher unions. Since our unions generally want more money spent on education (including increases in funding that wouldn’t go into our pockets), that would mean increased taxation. That is something no libertarian or conservative would be likely to support. Finding any excuse to believe that it is not necessary to spend more on education is just going to be basic cognitive bias at work for them. Add to this that teacher unions have almost exclusively supported Democratic Party candidates in recent decades, and that gives the right even more incentive to view teacher unions as the enemy.
Of course, you might ask why almost all unions support only Democrats, but that might require more introspection than most partisans care to do. The exceptions to this union = Democrat status are law enforcement, fire-rescue, and corrections officer unions. Those unions support whichever politicians are most likely to be elected, and so it should be no surprise when Republican “union reform” or “right-to-work” legislation doesn’t impact their collective bargaining rights.
This is the lefty scumbag who supports murder as a preventative in case the victim might later put their feet on a desk:
“JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?…”
Fuck off and die, asshole.
Or why more centers of education and learning tend to be liberal….
Our union does a pretty good job no matter what your political beliefs are. I ma more libertarian than anything…I don’t want my views imposed on anybody, the problem with conservatives is they want to impose their biased beliefs as a national decree and just cut off their nose to spit their face. As for liberals, they spend spend spend… and everything goes round in circles…no solutions…
BUT wanting a livable wage is not a “belief” or “ideal” it is a practical need. Plain and simple.
Like I said no one cares that the CEOs of Puget Sound Energy is a Millionaires Club… what do you care if people in education can afford a roof over their head, transportation to get to work, toilet paper and toothpaste and maybe some left over.
Conservatives cry when people are broke, poor, without housing and basic needs and say they need to get to work, SOOOO teachers are some of the hardest working people in our communities… so surely they can get behind that
Again. Who gets to say what a “livable wage” is?
The socialists everywhere have been trying to bring such “fairness” to the masses for more than a century. It’s never quite lived up to it’s promise.
I think simple math and the science of economy can come up with a “living wage”. Its not like some mysterious unknown, it can totally be quantified.
Socialism isn’t the issue. Political parties are not the issue. The issue is for the the aforementioned reasons…
I don’t get why none of you seem to care that although the base salary for the CEO Mary Kipp at PSE is $923,923 Which is 3-4 times the amount other people in that position make… but with
Bonus + Non-EquityIncentive Comp $3,388,708
which is $4,312,631 Total Cash Comp,
BUT WAIT there is more
$101,614 Total Other
Which gives Mary Kipp an insane amount of $4,414,245 Total Compensation
https://www1.salary.com/Mary-E-Kipp-Salary-Bonus-Stock-Options-for-PUGET-SOUND-ENERGY-INC.html
EVERYONE on the board makes a million +, and they are going to raise the rates coming in 2023… but go ahead focus on teachers and paranoia around poliical leanings and the evil of unions, its EXACTLY what they want from you!
Seattle is a liberal stronghold. 75% of voters in King County voted Dem in the last presidential election. You reap what you sow!
What does that mean in reference to education?
It means that electing social democrats leads to the very issues being discussed here. Poor performance and no incentive to improve. Along with socialist unions pushing for more. Always more.
I am going to repost this until I get someone to at least scratch their head and WONDER about if they are being mislead intentionally
Socialism isn’t the issue. Political parties are not the issue. The issue is for the the aforementioned reasons…
I don’t get why none of you seem to care that although the base salary for the CEO Mary Kipp at PSE is $923,923 Which is 3-4 times the amount other people in that position make… but with
Bonus + Non-EquityIncentive Comp $3,388,708
which is $4,312,631 Total Cash Comp,
BUT WAIT there is more
$101,614 Total Other
Which gives Mary Kipp an insane amount of $4,414,245 Total Compensation
https://www1.salary.com/Mary-E-Kipp-Salary-Bonus-Stock-Options-for-PUGET-SOUND-ENERGY-INC.html
EVERYONE on the board makes a million +, and they are going to raise the rates for you all coming in 2023… but go ahead focus on teachers and paranoia around poliical leanings and the evil of unions, its EXACTLY what they want from you!
Well, that means the children will be uneducated rather than miseducated. It is easier to educate someone who hasn’t learned anything than it is to re-educate someone who has been fed lies and propaganda and that pronouns are meaningful.
If I was in a sarcastic mood I would say you are a living example of your ire “children will be uneducated rather than miseducated. It is easier to educate someone who hasn’t learned anything than it is to re-educate someone who has been fed lies and propaganda”. Whatever pronouns, that’s not really what is happening.
I am going to repost this until I get someone to at least scratch their head and WONDER about if they are being mislead intentionally
Socialism isn’t the issue. Political parties are not the issue. The issue is for the the aforementioned reasons…
I don’t get why none of you seem to care that although the base salary for the CEO Mary Kipp at PSE is $923,923 Which is 3-4 times the amount other people in that position make… but with
Bonus + Non-EquityIncentive Comp $3,388,708
which is $4,312,631 Total Cash Comp,
BUT WAIT there is more
$101,614 Total Other
Which gives Mary Kipp an insane amount of $4,414,245 Total Compensation
https://www1.salary.com/Mary-E-Kipp-Salary-Bonus-Stock-Options-for-PUGET-SOUND-ENERGY-INC.html
EVERYONE on the board makes a million +, and they are going to raise the rates for you all coming in 2023… but go ahead focus on teachers and paranoia around poliical leanings and the evil of unions, its EXACTLY what they want from you!