Cloudflare Can Cancel Service to Terrible Websites Like Kiwi Farms. But Should It?
Cloudflare's decision brings up fundamental questions about how internet infrastructure companies should operate.

There's been ample cheering over the internet intermediary company Cloudflare canceling services to the controversial 8chan heir Kiwi Farms. If history is any indication, however, Cloudflare's decision will do little to stop online hate and harassment. Meanwhile, it moves us yet another step further from the sort of neutrality that's typically guided internet infrastructure companies (that is, things like web hosting, cybersecurity, and newsletter services). And the further we stray from this neutrality, the worse the consequences for all sorts of online speech and organizing.
Cloudflare is a private business, and perfectly free to drop services to any entity it likes. But whether it should—and whether it made the right call with Kiwi Farms—is up for debate.
The Backstory
Until recently, Cloudflare—a popular provider of all sorts of back-end services that keep websites running smoothly—provided security services for Kiwi Farms, an internet forum that The Guardian calls "the worst place on the web." In effect, Cloudflare helped Kiwi Farms avoid the kind of distributed denial of service (DDoS) attacks that could take the platform down.
Kiwi Farms was founded by a former 8chan administrator and known as a space for people to plot organized harassment campaigns against disfavored groups or individuals. Recently, "farmers" targeted Canadian activist and Twitch streamer Clara "Keffals" Sorrenti. They coordinated takedown requests for her Twitch account, doxxed her, and conspired to get a SWAT team sent to her house, among other dastardly things.
In response, Sorrenti—who was arrested after someone called police pretending to be her and threatening violence—led a campaign to get Cloudflare to stop servicing Kiwi Farms.
Initially, Cloudflare resisted. Its founder and CEO Matthew Prince—who has described himself as "almost a free-speech absolutist"—and Head of Public Policy Alissa Starzak wrote an August 31 blog post explaining Cloudflare's content moderation policies and why they believe "that voluntarily terminating access to services that protect against cyberattack is not the correct approach."
"Some argue that we should terminate these services to content we find reprehensible so that others can launch attacks to knock it offline," noted Prince and Starzak. "That is the equivalent argument in the physical world that the fire department shouldn't respond to fires in the homes of people who do not possess sufficient moral character. Both in the physical world and online, that is a dangerous precedent, and one that is over the long term most likely to disproportionately harm vulnerable and marginalized communities."
Playing Whack-a-Mole
Cloudflare hasn't always acted in accordance with its professed principle against terminating services. In 2017, it canceled the account of the neo-Nazi site Daily Stormer. And in 2019, it canceled services for the fringe-right forum 8chan.
The Daily Stormer popped back up elsewhere. So did 8chan. Which brings us to an uncomfortable truth about the global internet era.
"If the new 8chan met the fate of the old 8chan, what's to stop a new Kiwi Farms from cropping up in short order?" as Freddie deBoer put it. "It turns out that extremism isn't so easily stamped out in a digitally connected world; you can kill a site, maybe, but until you kill the human attitudes that such a site reveals, you have never actually solved the problem."
In other words, the problem isn't the expression of extremist views, it's the extremist views. Cutting out one digital avenue for offensive speech or organized harassment does nothing about the underlying sentiments, and may only harden people in their extremist viewpoints. Feeling marginalized and attacked is powerful at building community and solidarity. (See, e.g., former President Donald Trump.)
To their credit, Cloudflare executives seem to recognize this, as well as the danger in starting to choose customers based on those customers' viewpoints.
Is Cloudflare Like a Phone Company?
After terminating services for 8chan and the Daily Stormer, "we saw a dramatic increase in authoritarian regimes attempting to have us terminate security services for human rights organizations — often citing the language from our own justification back to us," write Prince and Starzak in their August 31 blog post.
These past experiences led Cloudflare executives to conclude "that the power to terminate security services for the sites was not a power Cloudflare should hold," write Prince and Starzak. "Not because the content of those sites wasn't abhorrent — it was — but because security services most closely resemble Internet utilities."
"Just as the telephone company doesn't terminate your line if you say awful, racist, bigoted things, we have concluded in consultation with politicians, policy makers, and experts that turning off security services because we think what you publish is despicable is the wrong policy," they added.
This seems like a prudent policy and the one most protective of speech broadly—including, yes, neo-Nazi and troll speech but also all the speech that most people would recognize as desirable and even vital.
(Notably, Prince and Starzak write that they will "terminate security services for content which is illegal in the United States," including "content subject to Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act (FOSTA). But, otherwise, we believe that cyberattacks are something that everyone should be free of." FOSTA said Section 230 doesn't apply where prostitution is involved. What a crazy world we live in where platforms promoting consensual adult sex work are essentially barred by law from being protected from cyberattacks…)
Kiwi Farms: An 'Immediate Threat to Human Life"?
But does Kiwi Farms present an exceptional case? Cloudflare's CEO seems to think so.
On September 3, Cloudflare decided to terminate service to Kiwi Farm. "We have blocked Kiwifarms. Visitors to any of the Kiwifarms sites that use any of Cloudflare's services will see a Cloudflare block page and a link to this post," wrote Prince in another blog post.
It does not seem to be a decision that the company took lightly. "This is an extraordinary decision for us to make and, given Cloudflare's role as an Internet infrastructure provider, a dangerous one that we are not comfortable with," Prince wrote. "However, the rhetoric on the Kiwifarms site and specific, targeted threats have escalated over the last 48 hours to the point that we believe there is an unprecedented emergency and immediate threat to human life unlike we have previously seen from Kiwifarms or any other customer before."
Prince insisted that it wasn't merely "revolting content" that had prompted the company to act and that the decision did not come in response to the pressure campaign led by Sorrenti.
"While we believe that in every other situation we have faced — including the Daily Stormer and 8chan — it would have been appropriate as an infrastructure provider for us to wait for legal process, in this case the imminent and emergency threat to human life which continues to escalate causes us to take this action," wrote Prince.
"Hard cases make bad law," he added. "This is a hard case and we would caution anyone from seeing it as setting precedent."
Setting a Precedent?
It's reassuring to see Cloudflare take seriously the larger implications of cutting off service to Kiwi Farms and to see its CEO say this is not some new norm for the company. But even if Prince doesn't want or intend for it to be precedent-setting, that may not be something in his control.
Each time an internet infrastructure company does this, the easier it is for that company and others like it to justify doing likewise in the future. (Already, the Internet Archive has disappeared Kiwi Farms from its archives.) And the easier it is for people angry at any platform's existence to demand these companies do so.
Cloudflare and other private actors are well within their rights to terminate services to web platforms they find offensive. It isn't illegal "censorship," a First Amendment violation, or an antitrust violation (all claims that tend to get made whenever a tech company gives a controversial figure or entity the boot). Nor is it a situation in which Cloudflare is running afoul of Section 230.
When Cloudflare canceled services to 8chan, my colleague Scott Shackford wrote that "refusing to associate itself with a site that hosts messages it finds offensive isn't much different from a baker or T-shirt maker refusing customers that ask them to make cakes or shirts that contain messages that they dislike." Offensive sites may find others to host and service them, just as people may go elsewhere for cakes and T-shirts. But "the point here," writes Shackford, "is that every company whose business model operates on the transmission of messages has the ability to decide what its limits are—if any."
That's not wrong. One one level, Cloudflare's decision is a sign that free markets and free association are thriving. But it also brings up more fundamental questions about how a company like Cloudflare should operate.
Is it more like a cake shop, or is it more like a phone company?
Mandating that it act like a phone company would be deeply problematic. But an internet in which infrastructure companies choose to operate more like the phone company is certainly a less risky one for free speech and political organizing broadly. Once we start holding companies like Cloudflare responsible for the content of every single site it services, that path seems unlikely to end at the worst sites on the internet.
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"However, the rhetoric on the Kiwifarms site and specific, targeted threats have escalated over the last 48 hours to the point that we believe there is an unprecedented emergency and immediate threat to human life unlike we have previously seen from Kiwifarms or any other customer before."
Do they still back antifa sites that have led to such behaviors as swatting members of Congress or organizing street stops that turn deadly? No?
Fuck off then.
Selective enforcement of rules is a favorite tool of dictatorships, hence why they asked you prior to shut down human rights groups based on your prior actions.
You've learned nothing.
+1
Another example of why ENB is NOT a libertarian, but a far left progressive.
Man, Trump rules everything, doesn't he? We can barely go one article without his mention.
Yep, he's the only example of building a community on marginalization.
Ffs.
Kinda sensitive to criticism of Donald Trump?
You've been extra retarded lately Mike.
It has been very apparent. Internal polling must be looking really bad so guys like Mike are told to super-sealion.
"Guys"?
"Mike" is a Little Chinese GIrl.
This also wasn't a problem seemingly until it touched the favored trans community.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/cloudflare-kiwi-farms-keffals-anti-trans-rcna44834
And, per the norm, it's not like with Eich or Damore or Sandman or Memories Pizza or any one of a hundred other examples where it was just some dude overwhelmingly minding his own business or doing their job when a social media shit storm was brought down on top of them, Keffals wasn't unknown to police and was a political activist who had run for public office on multiple occasions.
Raking Damore over the coals for a company-solicited memo, doxxing Rittenhouse and Sandman for simply existing in a public space is a-OK, but doxxing an internet celebrity who's run for public office is assault? Go fuck yourself.
Oh fuck no. Anyone who is on the same side as Keffels on anything is wrong.
Not Cloudflare. Kiwi Farms awful, it's right there in the headline.
The trannies now literally rule over all of us. "The most oppressed minority" is actually Family Guy come to life:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59kf86v_Cpc
There have been several discussions about common carrier status for these big web firms, even Justice Thomas bringing it up. My self-ownership principles object. But I have two other "principles" too: what would make me happy as myself (Putin should have a stroke and turn into a lame duck like Woodrow Wilson) and as a pragmatic real politik result.
The libertarian principle wins, always, but there's wrinkle to all this that everybody seems to miss: Cloudfare's own lies. Just like Facebook, Twitter, Google, Amazon, and everybody else, their advertising reeks of how universal their service is. Far as I'm concerned, dropping icky customers violates this. Far as I'm concerned, a business's advertisements provide context for their customer contracts, and acting contrarily, such as dropping icky customers for pretextual reasons is a contract violation.
The problem is that getting justice in this country is far too expensive and slow to be worth squat. Loser pays would help a lot, but when it's going to take several years, it's meaningless.
Far as I'm concerned, something like this particular contract dispute should be able to go to trial immediately. If Cloudfare is not ready to immediately defend their action, then they took their action without proper justification, on a whim, and that alone makes it a contract violation.
tl;dr: Because dropping this contract is counter to their implied universal reliable service, and because using the US justice system is entirely impractical, I would relish applying common carrier status to these companies.
Even allowing contract lawsuits not interrupted with 230 claims would be a step. But these companies have user agreements requiring arbitration on front of SV judges. That is how Berenson got his settlement. But more often than not contract claims are waived away under 230 which is why reform is needed.
The libertarian principle wins, always, but there's wrinkle to all this that everybody seems to miss: Cloudfare's own lies. Just like Facebook, Twitter, Google, Amazon, and everybody else, their advertising reeks of how universal their service is. Far as I'm concerned, dropping icky customers violates this. Far as I'm concerned, a business's advertisements provide context for their customer contracts, and acting contrarily, such as dropping icky customers for pretextual reasons is a contract violation.
Yup. I stopped pointing this out a while ago. The big selling point of web 2.0 was supposed to be targeted advertising. Which meant that if you didn't want your ads for Ford Trucks showing up in Nazi newsletters, Google could keep your ads out of Nazi newsletters. The fact that they have to kick Nazis off their platforms in order to keep Ford ads from showing up in Nazi newsletters means they're charging you more for service they aren't providing.
Initially, Cloudflare resisted. Its founder and CEO Matthew Prince—who has described himself as "almost a free-speech absolutist"
Is anyone else getting tired of all these Silicon Valley self-described 'free speech absolutists' banning everything?
Hey, they have cocktail party invites to receive, as well. Plus, they don't want to get audited for non-compliance with their government overlords.
"What a crazy world we live in where platforms promoting consensual adult sex work are essentially barred by law from being protected For 'Good Samaritan' Blocking and Screening of Offensive Material" - Elizabeth Nolan Brown
She really is naive.
She's not, she's evil. The hypocracy is intentional.
There are a very fine set of lines being walked in this article.
And to be fair, we are on a very fine set of lines here in this space we call Big Tech. We increasingly give over our means of communication to an increasingly small set of corporations, most of which are headquartered in a tiny sliver of geography located in the state of California. The people running this small set of corporations exist in a somewhat small viewpoint bubble, and all collude with one another on major decisions such as deplatforming.
Ultimately, I think the libertarian solution to this problem is to get some more diversity in this corporate space, but that's going to be a long, painful slog with a lot of dead bodies killed "by mistake" for terms of service violations.
They are already colluding with each other to take down competitors as well as engaging in buy and kills to stymie competition. They are acting completely as anti free market actors. Ignoring this isn't libertarian. The problem is the reality of the issue doesn't fit on a bumper sticker as well as muh private corporations does.
Then build your own free market but be sure to keep the borders open so I can sieze power there too. Remember also, we can always take a vote to see if I should get more power too because democracy is a human right.
I concede.
Can I at least get government Capitol to start my own internet like the original one?
Only if you put trans and BIPOC+ content on the first page.
the fire department shouldn't respond to fires in the homes of people who do not possess sufficient moral character
Those who think the unvaxxed should be turned away from the hospital agree.
This is why hospitals need their own Section 230.
Breaking: Queen Elizabeth Dead at 96.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-61585886
Holy shit the vax can even kill the queen!
This is how Britain fixes their energy issues. Mandatory lights off mourning through winter. She took one for the country.
We all know that John Lydon's a dick, but will he rush out a version of God Save The King, or is that too mundane for him?
He already said no. Stop your cheap comments. We know he's for real
Should the phone company monitor your phone calls and cut you off when you speak about forbidden subjects?
True. But do we treat web services as common carriers? We don't. For reasons.
If phones were invented in this decade they too would be censoring under the guise of civility.
Why do we treat phones as common carriers?
Because we can't have unlimited competition. You can't just put up a bunch of telephone lines and start competing; the government won't let you. (OK, these days everything is mobile, but you also can't just build a bunch of towers; spectrum is limited.)
Without having read the article -- if it was Cloudflare's business decision, then I'm pretty sure that it's their prerogative. I'm pretty sure that's the libertarian answer, provided they didn't violate the NAP. This also goes for their hosting 4chan and that white supremacist site.
With that said, ive noticed some comments suggesting that Cloudflare was coerced or otherwise pressured by the feds — besides the fact that's entirely speculatory, even if the feds DID pressure them. That's still a business decisions, isnt it?
Besides. Even if the feds did pressure, There's (technically) nothing stopping KiwiFarms from hosting their site on their own server on the darkweb and likewise there's nothing stopping another service provider from picking them up... if KiwiFarms' concern is their web security services, well there's still remedies for that. The remedy just isn't Cloudflare anymore.
if the feds DID pressure cloudflare -- thats still a business decision.
Unless their contractual terms specifically call put a reason not to sell to this customer, i do not agree it is their prerogative.
I have no problem with a business saying we don't serve conservatives. I do have a problem with a business who says we serve everyone and then randomly excludes some based on some non written down criteria.
So if cloudfare says they won't sell to sites that promote doxxing. Fine. Problem is it hits Twitter and other social media as well.
If the mob did pressure Cloudflare to provide protection money - that's still a business decision.
Also, what happened to 'public accomodation' law?
Gotta love the editorializing by calling KF "terrible" right there in the headline. What a waste of a "journalist."
Literally every journalistic description of Kiwi Farms describes Twitter.
The whole thing is just as blatantly biased, as are most of Reason's articles. It would be nice if they at least attempted to be biased in a libertarian direction rather than in a partisan left-wing democrat fashion. Boehm had an especially bad one yesterday
Oh, yeah, “blatantly” …
Can you expound just a bit?
You're new here I take it....
Besides the fact that -- if you're online, doxxing people or SWATting or encouraging actual physical harm to an individual -- is that not violating NAP? Is that considered "free speech"? Even if Cloudflare proscribed to libertarian thought, would they be fundamentally wrong to refuse to service a harassment campaign?
The post on the KiwiFarms that supposedly kicked this off was from an account that had been dormant for two years and was quickly removed by the moderators. Can anyone say "tranny false flag"?
No, nobody can say that (on respectable sites at least) without getting in trouble for use of slurs.
Tranny-loving sites are anything but respectable. Sociopathic nazi pedophiles every last one of 'em.
How would you know?
Null stated so on the front page of KF.
Do you trust a tranny more than him?
I mean he believes them when they say they aren't grooming children even as they ask kindergarteners where they masturbate.
Can anyone say "tranny false flag"?
I have learned that if you want to threaten the lives of members of your local city government, just sign a tranny's name at the bottom and everyone will apparently forget all about the fact that you threatened to murder city officials.
If they enforced their policies equally, sure. They don't. Many sites support doxxing. Twitter, reddit, etc.
But cloud fare supports web sights that do that. They took down kiwi farm because they didn't like them. Cloudfare literally supports taliban web sites
Doxxing - no. It's a dick move, but no.
Swatting - yes. This violates the NAP.
Doxxing is free speech.
Choosing to open the door for the SWAT team is a business decision.
+2
if you're online, doxxing people or SWATting or encouraging actual physical harm to an individual
Unless you can show me the SWAT Team that takes its marching orders from Twitter, if you're online, you aren't swatting someone and if you're swatting someone, you aren't doing it online.
SWATting actually happens because phone carriers are Title II protected entities.
"One one level"
What's a one one level?
Stable flight at 11,000 feet.
Could be terrain problems with that in Colorado!
"Mandating that it act like a phone company would be deeply problematic."
Sorry, that might be true of social media companies, but with the companies that provide the base infrastructure of the internet, that statement can not stand on mere assertion.
Just build your own DNS.
Just build your own DDOS blocker.
Just build your own server farm.
Just build your own credit card company.
Just build your own bank.
Lolbertarians can't do shit against leftists because they fight with both hands behind their back like some kind of retard. Being pro-free market means you just end up supporting the status quo, aka the approved Narrative. The long march through the institutions of America has finally paid off and they aren't going to give up their power for a few fuckwits owned by Koch Inc.
Seems like Cloudfare is at least one level up from base infrastructure of the Internet.
Depending on the company, it's got a very 'boomer' conceptualization of social media companies. That is, if you put 10 friends on a group call through Verizon or send them a group text through Verizon to tell them how much your data carrier sucks, that's one thing. If you go on Verizon's website and leave a comment about how much Verizon sucks, that's another.
>controversial 8chan heir Kiwi Farms
8chan has absolutely no relationship with the KiwiFarms. KF was rolled out from users of the Sonichu wiki for Chris Chan, you silly cunt of a journalist! The remaining Koch Brother should fire all you losers who couldn't get more prestigious jobs at Buzzfeed and just replace you with an AI chatbox that quotes Hayek.
Turns out Snap was giving Koch voter data information to democrats. Lol.
https://dailycaller.com/2022/09/08/snap-dem-campaigns-gop-data/
Freddie deBoer is a literal Marxist.
Something something the company you keep...
deBoer is an absolute snake piece of shit. Anyone who is an unrepentant Marxist is. Yet, all kinds of people who claim to be on the right associate with him and think he is great.
Company you keep indeed.
>Prince and Starzak write that they will "terminate security services for content which is illegal in the United States," including "content subject to Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act (FOSTA).
Obviously the next real libertarian fight should be to defend the rights of children to engage in sex work! Children can understand consent and sex work is real work so let's get some CP posted on Reason!
@ENB
In your article about prescription coverage, you cheer on and say it's right and proper for an employer to interfere between an employee and their doctor. You do not take the strictly libertarian/Libertarian stance that it is their right to do so, you say it is right for them to do so.
So please kindly fuck off here. If it is right for a homophobic employer to cut certain medications from coverage because they are that rabidly homophobic, then it is also not just a company's right to drop a customer that they think is abhorrent, but also right for them to do so.
The real problem there is that the employer is involved in the employee's health insurance at all.
So there's a few accusations here listed as if they are fact.
They coordinated takedown requests for her Twitch account, doxxed her, and conspired to get a SWAT team sent to her house, among other dastardly things.
There's no real evidence that it was a Kiwifarms user who tried to get her swatted. Beyond that, even if they did, Kiwifarms did not do this thing, it was an individual who happens to use the site. Harassment and illegal activities were supposedly bannable offenses on the site, and people were being banned with some frequency.
"However, the rhetoric on the Kiwifarms site and specific, targeted threats have escalated over the last 48 hours to the point that we believe there is an unprecedented emergency.
Rhetoric is another word for "Free speech." If there are specific, targeted threats, it's actually probably BETTER to have them on the site where they can be linked to a user account so people can see them, instead of just pushing those into hiding. It's actually good if someone says "I'm going to bomb this place" if they really mean to do it, instead of them just doing it. And if you support shutting down any site where this happens, you've written a rule where people can brigade a site with false-flag attacks to get it taken out. There's reason to believe this particular threat WAS a false flag.
If you're not willing to defend the most vile and abhorrent speech, you're not really in favor of free speech. Once there is a precedent that you can be denied speech if it's harassment, everything people don't like will be qualified as harassment.
When I first saw a picture of that fat tranny Keffals, I thought it was a picture of Bari Weiss. It does a pretty good job passing as a woman by being a husky eunuch.
There's no real evidence that it was a Kiwifarms user who tried to get her swatted. Beyond that, even if they did, Kiwifarms did not do this thing, it was an individual who happens to use the site. Harassment and illegal activities were supposedly bannable offenses on the site, and people were being banned with some frequency.
Very much this. According to the official backstory given by Reason, the only thing connecting Kiwi Farms to the SWATting is Sorrenti's loathing of them.
And if you support shutting down any site where this happens, you've written a rule where people can brigade a site with false-flag attacks to get it taken out. There's reason to believe this particular threat WAS a false flag.
Worse still, the false flags cover or distract from other action which is what a false flag is supposed to do.
As pointed out above, Freddie DeBoer is an unapologetic Marxist. Funny how the reason staff will think of palling around with a literal communist. That is no different than associating with a Nazi or a white Supremacist. But somehow to the entire media class in this country being a communist is okay.
Here's a simple solution: Overturn Sullivan.
With Sullivan gone, suing or attacking Cloudflare would be a waste of time. She could just go after the malicious actors directly.
The Guardian calling KF the worst place on the web...please. Pot, kettle. KF is still up, just at an alternative site.
Null said Prince never even discussed the situation before Cloudflare kicked KF off. Sounds like "someone" gave Prince his marching orders and Prince did as he was told.
Remember, if Cloudflare can kick KF off, they can kick Reason or any other site off. Don't think so? Say something "someone" doesn't like and find out.
Look, someone mentioned putting a judge in a woodchippper in the comments. It's obviously illegal to put a judge in a woodchipper, so we need to shut the entire site down or else the rule of law itself will be threatened.
Kiwifarms is a forum which simply recognizes free speech. That is all it is. And once again the woke editors at Reason have shown themselves to be selectively libertarian. Adding the value signal to the headline in order to manipulate their reader into believing things which are not true shows the author's intent to cover for cloud cloudfare while technically not covering for cloudfare.
Libertarians hate capitalism when it confronts them with he truth.
Libertarians hate capitalism when it confronts them with the truth.
Kiwi Farms was a great site--one of the last if not the very last bastions of truly free speech on the internet. The fact that it was the ONE PLACE where ANY CRITICISM WHATSOEVER of tranny predatory nazis was tolerated in itself justified and ennobled its existence and its exposure of failed aspiring fart-porn "actresses" cum pedophilic cult leaders such as "Keffals" and Yanny the Tranny will be very sorely missed.
Very sad news indeed.
The free market would never have created the Internet in its current form, with its single points of failure and single points of control. That's at the root of many of the problems with it. Discussing libertarian approaches to such a government-created monster is ridiculous.
Seriously!? Even you guys are going follow the media's lead and repeat word for word the claims of one side, the very people trying to knock the site offline illegally? People with a self-celebrated history of "de-platforming" anyone who so much as looks at them wrong? Even going so far as to smugly comment on how they attacked someone else's livelihood over petty issues! Someone with a lot of enemies.
I'm going to start this off by saying that most of the bad perceptions KFs gets comes from the free speech absolutist nature of the board, combined with the "don't just say whatever you want but do it as hyperbolic and offensively as possible" chan culture and style of posting and socialization. Which in today's climate is tantamount to a crime against humanity for some people... and generally used as proof of any and all accused wrong doing by default today. Secondly. Despite all sorts of claims being thrown around. The site is fundamentally apolitical. With people of pretty much every political and ideological view point as well as race sex, sexuality and even gender. (yes there are trans members) The site also has a huge feminist membership. Largely victims of not having the "correct" opinions about who they have to allow into their changing rooms, bathrooms and sports. I'm not going to downplay. There are quite a few assholes and shit heads. But being an asshole or super edgy, is not a crime.
I've been watching this whole thing pretty closely, and have kept an eye on the site in question more than once over the years. To even begin to explain how misinformed the media's narrative is you have to understand the nature of the site. It is fundamentally little more than a gossip site at its core.. But a gossip site that has exposed a lot of scumbags (pedos, groomers, rapists, animal abusers etc) and assholes over the years. (And thus has gained a lot of enemies and people who generally have a vested interest in taking them down, beyond simply making the internet "safer") The site's main goal is to document, observe and laugh at... overly eccentric, dramatic, strange, insane, evil and very 'public' people. Almost completely through compiling stuff the people have posted publicly themselves over time. As well as any other shit they may have had part in. The culture of the site has a strong "look but never touch" ethos and in fact one of the few things short of something illegal that you can do to get banned, is to try to antagonize, harass or generally interact with the subjects in any way.. And especially any attempts to organize, direct or even talk about such activities on the site at all. (seriously, from what i've seen, even in slow times, free of controversy or attention.. simple joking about such things is enough to get you down voted and or warned) They take that rule pretty seriously. Kind of a "don't mess with animals in the zoo" type mentality. This is the reason nobody has been able to take them down before. They flat out don't allow even discussion about harassment or interaction. On top of that, the few times throughout the years where anything illegal was posted, it was not only deleted quickly but they willingly and openly worked with law enforcement.
Which brings us to the issue of the most serious and blatantly false claim made against the site.. That they have a history of doing or supporting things like swatting. This is something that, looking back through their history, is pretty clearly false.. The site owner and pretty much all of the members view swatting as completely evil, dangerous, stupid and potentially even attempted murder. The owner has made it clear that evidence of swatting or planning to, will lead straight to law enforcement involvement. It's not even something that's allowed to be joked about.
In addition to this attitude, the other major media omission in all this is the fact that the 'swatting' attempt on the person who I won't name here, is still under investigation and there is no evidence for who did it yet. The blame put onto KF is entirely of the victim's personal insistence.. Despite not interacting with the swatter in any way at all. (the swatter sent 3rd parties threats in the person's name) Yet the media is reporting it as if it's a forgone conclusion or worse, some are even deceptively wording it to sound like the police are officially pointing to KF or have evidence. As for the second swatting, of the US politician, things get even more ridiculous with the blame narrative. The only thing actually linking that swatting to this mess or KF at all, is the fact that the person literally had to call back because they forgot to claim to be a mod and member of KF... while still of course hiding their identity with an AI voice. That's the only connection, yet once again the media is reporting this as if it is undeniable proof in some cases. I mean think about that for a second.. They are claiming that KF swatted another random person, a US politician no less (an escalation of things by many orders of magnitude I might add) and then implicated themselves out of nowhere, all for absolutely no reason! It is possibly the worst thing that could happen from the standpoint of KFs as it gets a lot of attention and brings the media and politics into it.
The third "threat" and the one that CF's CEO pretty much used to base much of his "imminent serious threats of harm" excuse on. Happened just as the whole thing, as well as the "drop KFs" campaign was losing steam and calming down. Someone posted a picture of the building the original swatting victim was staying in, with a paper note on the pic, once again naming KF directly. While at the same time, a two year old, totally unused account before this whole mess began, suddenly posted a "threat" on KF. To be clear, it's not clear whether it was a poor attempt at a joke (given the absurd nature of the actual threat) or an...excuse... and despite being deleted and the user banned in less than 30.. It was all CF's CEO needed to dream up his "getting out of control and dangerous" excuse.
Finally.. just because it gets brought up so often and is so completely ridiculous. The claim that the site has lead to suicides via harassment. Such claims once again ignore the fact that harassment and interaction is against the site rules. That said, once you look at these claims with any attention they start to fall apart completely. To start, neither of the two people, who are confirmed to actually be dead, even seemed to have mentioned KF in their reasonings. In fact the second one literally gave a list of reasons which included the failure of the mental health system and becoming homeless earlier the day before. With their thread on KF inactive for months. The only reason KF got mentioned at all is because activists ignored the persons final message and blamed it on KF as part of a later attempt to shut the site down. The first death is largely the same but I haven't been able to find out much of the details. The third person, and the only one to actually blame KF,... well nobody has been able to prove their death. No death cert, no direct family conformation, no government records (from either the Japanese or US, who both keep track of such things) All we have is "a friend" who claimed to be on the phone with him when he did it, and a past employer, again, through a 3rd party. After an attempt by the person to get his long inactive/dead thread deleted directly.. (with an attempt to pay KF's owner to delete it)
Sadly, all of these claims are often repeated, changed, expanded etc. by the media who uncritically regurgitate them. ("If you say something enough times people start to believe it")
The only reason I even got into this shitstorm is because of the disastrous implications it has on the free internet. Most of those details have already been pointed out. That DDoS protection isn't the same as hosting.. it's more like police or fire services. That's where I want to end my little post here. What the whole campaign to get KF dropped really comes down to.. What the media and social media have cheered on, defended and outright took part in. The true nature of the campaign. Not just at it's core or base, but in it's entirety.. It was a campaign to force a network infrastructure service to stop protecting a completely legal site from illegal DDoS attacks, so the members of the campaign and others could illegally attack and knock the site off line! (a federal crime I might add) That's it! Their argument was and is "Stop protecting that legal site from our illegal attacks!"
We have crossed the line in cancel culture (maybe not the first time but the most clear cut and unambiguous) into illegal tactics, illegal attacks in order to silence "wrong thinkers" And the media, elites and tech are openly cheering it on!
And I don't have to remind everyone of the irony in this context, of the favorite argument for these types of people, to "build your own site/network" Well KF owner did just that, not only owning the servers but the network itself... and now look at how this is turning out.. It isn't even just a dark day for the now broken internet, but a dangerous day for speech as a whole!
"Well KF owner did just that, not only owning the servers but the network itself... and now look at how this is turning out.."
I don't think Cloudflare needs or wants the hassle of being associated with KF and the people who contribute to it. They're in business to make money; the rest is opera. Perhaps KF can find an alternate service that welcomes the controversy, turns it to its advantage and profits from it.
A dark day indeed.
The lamps are going out all over western civilization.
We will not see them lit again in our lifetime.
Well, I am a little bit confused because I think couldflare is one of the best for small blogs as well as big ones, right now I am much aware of it that's why I am reading more answers just to be clear about it and have a good understanding of the topic
In a few months, if the feds *don't* take credit for Cloudflare's decision, are you going to retract your statement or otherwise modify your opinion?
They're already ignoring all the other examples, why would another one change their MO?
In a few months, when the FBI/DOJ/Biden regime take credit for pressuring and commanding Cloudflare to censor Kiwi Farms, are we going to finally drop the act?
I give this a 50/50. The other 50% being she Jussie Smolletted the whole thing (note the 50/50 need not be mutually exclusive). Given Reason's typically brilliant investigative reporting, we have (so far) documented proof that Sorrenti was arrested and Reason's definitive backstory narrative *immediately* leaps to her campaign against Kiwi Farms, sans arrest.
Cloudflare is a private business, and perfectly free to drop services to any entity it likes
Unless it drops "sex workers" then ENB sings a different tune.
No. The show must go on.
Doesn't cloud fare also provide backend support for taliban sights?
Can't say but they might provide support for Chaturbate and Pornhub because sex work is a human right.
#LibertariansForProstitution
#MyDaughterIsASexWorker
"Your money or your life" is still a business decision.
Let me think about that ...
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we have (so far) documented proof that Sorrenti was arrested
No shit? What for, cheese pizza on his computer?