Congress Considers Gay Marriage Bill To Avoid a Future Supreme Court Showdown
Passing an actual law is a good and proper way of enshrining recognition.

In the wake of the reversal of Roe v. Wade, Democratic (and at least one Republican) lawmakers are looking to make sure gay marriage recognition is protected from potential future Supreme Court decisions.
On Monday, Rep. Jerry Nadler (D–N.Y.) reintroduced the Respect for Marriage Act, a bill that would overturn the federal Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), the 1996 law that defined marriage as being between one man and woman and forbid federal recognition of same-sex marriages in states that had legalized it.
The Respect for Marriage Act has been introduced before, as far back as 2009. The last time it was introduced was in January 2015, but just months later the Supreme Court ruled in Obergefell v. Hodges that the federal government and states must recognize same-sex marriages. DOMA remained on the books but was now unenforceable.
But in the recent Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health ruling that reversed Roe v. Wade, Justice Clarence Thomas wrote a concurrence that said he believed some other rulings were subject to rethinking based on the logic the majority used to justify Dobbs. Obergefell was one of those rulings Thomas referenced. Though no other justices signed onto Thomas' dissent, he clearly intended to invite states to bring challenges to these precedents in order for them to be reconsidered.
If Congress were to pass the Respect for Marriage Act, the federal government would then legislatively recognize these marriages even should the Supreme Court subsequently strike down Obergefell (or United States v. Windsor, a 2013 decision that was a precursor to Obergefell and held that DOMA is unconstitutional).
Further, the Respect for Marriage Act would also require that states recognize same-sex marriages that take place in states where it hasn't been legalized. This matters because, after the Obergefell ruling, several states left laws or state constitutional amendments blocking same-sex marriage recognition on the books. They currently don't do anything because of the Supreme Court's ruling, but they're still there. Should Obergefell be overturned, gay marriages may stop being recognized in some states. The Respect for Marriage Act would require these states recognize legal marriages from other states.
The House bill (H.R. 8404) has 160 cosponsors currently, all Democrats. The Senate version of the bill will be introduced by Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D–Calif.). Sen. Susan Collins (R–Maine) has signed on as a cosponsor and appears at the moment to be the only Republican. It'll take more Republican support to withstand the possibility of a filibuster. It could happen, but don't hold your breath. Polling shows that as of 2021, even a majority of Republicans now support same-sex marriage recognition, and it is supported across all age groups. But we're also currently not in a political environment where cooperation across the aisle is likely to happen (unless it involves increasing federal spending on government agencies and pork projects).
While I still believe it's very unlikely that this current Supreme Court is interested in rethinking Obergefell, it's nevertheless a good idea for lawmakers to affirmatively pass legislation to confirm same-sex marriage recognition. If the public wants same-sex marriage to be the law of the land, and polls indicate that's genuinely now what most people desire, it's supposed to be lawmakers, not the Supreme Court, who decide what the contours of it should be.
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"In the wake of the reversal of Roe v. Wade, Democratic (and at least one Republican) lawmakers are looking to make sure gay marriage recognition is protected from potential future Supreme Court decisions."
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Who knew that legislating from the bench might backfire?
^B.S. Propaganda used to dismiss the U.S. Constitution..
Emanations from the penumbra!
How can anyone say that without laughing?
The Supreme Court enforces the U.S. Constitution OVER government.
To say upholding the U.S. Constitution OVER a government is "legislating from the bench" is just an excuse to dismiss the U.S. Constitution for MORE, MORE, MORE legislative Gov-Gun Power...
You just as well say, "Government has no Supreme Law and any Constitutional ruling that CURBS government is just 'legislating from the bench'."
Is abortion one of those things in the constitution written in invisible ink?
No more so than marriage.
Marriage is a religious/social construct. The state has no business in it.
Everyone should be treated as an individual with actual agency for themselves in all aspects of government. Ownership, taxation, etc. This would provide the so called equality that so many are seeking.
Marriage is outside of any governmental interest.
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The government still has an interest because it needs to be able to apply the 5th amendment's right to not be forced to give testimony against a spouse. There needs to be an agreed upon definition so that the Mob doesn't simply claim to be one big polygamy (not that I consider compelled testimony to be useful, but if we aren't going to get rid of it entirely, then 5th amendment protections should be limited to their intended scope).
I agree, a legislative solution here is far more preferable.
Why have Congress involved in marriage at all?
I think the commerce clause authorizes Congress to regulate all aspects of every American's personal life 24/7.
When it comes to totalitarian federal government 100% bipartisan. That constitutionally limited federal government thing is so last year even the R's mock it.
EXACTLY!
I'm an individual as far as law and regulation are involved. Don't treat me differently because I'm married or single or whatever.
I mean, one can make that argument if one simply upends decades of laws that recognize different benefits and provisions relating to being married.
Quite frankly that should be fine but it would take an enormous amount of work to do all that before taking away marriage.
May as well pass this respecting the rights of everyone and then if we so choose go and just strike all mention of marriage and different provisions later.
Because libertarians only remember that's their stance when there's a gay person around. Once it's just straight folk, they forget.
Actually, a amendment to the constitution would be necessary. Otherwise, SCOTUS will shoot this down as well.
There is a large belief among leftists that the recent rulings still give federal powers over those issues despite the language used in the rulings. I dont see how they came up with that at all. But they still seem to want one size fits all solutions for a federal level. Which shouldn't be supported at a libertarian magazine.
Ahh I see.
So SCOTUS doesn't have to follow precedent and can strip any kind of unenumerated right. But only if it fits the agenda. Then they say "go pass a law!"
But then they try to do so and then you argue that they can't do that. That they have to pass laws via states to, you know, respect RIGHTS for all people.
There's no winning with you fascists. That is clearly the only point.
If it's a states rights issue, it would seem that any federal legislation would bee unconstitutional. What am I missing?
A heart and brain.
Huge bongs hits of leftist opium and an undying hatred of the Constitution, Federalism and free people in general. Other than that you're not missing much.
An incessant need to be overseen by some form of government.
"Passing an actual law is a good and proper way of enshrining recognition."
Instead of arguing that government has no business trucking with social conventions, TeenReason says government should pass laws about it.
People's sexual relationships aren't any of the government's business, Scott.
They want results, not principles.
Way more accurate than "free minds and free markets."
+100000000000.......
No MORE Gov-Gun dictation....
The standard rebuttal is that it matters when it comes to things like insurance, taxes, adoption, and inheritance, though as a practical matter I wonder how much of that is true.
Untangling marriage common law is difficult, but it would ultimately be a boon. Unfortunately the assumption of marriage is so deep into the law it is hard to remove. It is in everything from Healthcare to taxes to environmental law.
"insurance, taxes, adoption, and inheritance, though as a practical matter I wonder how much of that is true."
Common-law couples can do all those things too.
And if a state passes laws arguing same-sex couples cannot be legally considered a common-law couple?
Maybe not, but the marriage CONTRACT sure is.
Why?
And what delegated power under the constitution gives Congress the right to decide what is and is not a marriage?
Bingo!
seems some may have learned the lesson.... think of the mess that could have been avoided if any real effort had been made to do this for abortion during the last 50yrs.
"learned the lesson" ...... that the Supreme Court is more concerned about partisan politics than actually upholding "The People's" law over their government.
It wasn’t the SC’s job to say dick about abortion.
If you cannot find anywhere in the U.S. Constitution that proclaims people OWN themselves entirely then you're playing MASSIVELY IGNORANT on purpose.
4th Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons
13th Amendment
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Your just playing retarded games like where's the right to smoke B.S.
It is “retarded” that you think that these amendments have anything to do with abortion.
Great rebuttal dumbass.
He/she is clearly right. If someone isn't secure in their own person and held as a slave to another "being" (as you prefer to call it) then they clearly are having their rights breached.
Fucking fascist assholes trying to tell people they have no right to themselves. How "freedom loving" is that of you?
By that argument, parents can simply abandon toddlers at any time and at any place. Forcing them to actually take the child to an adoption center is involuntary servitude to the kid, with this line of thinking.
There's a vast difference between being cited for child neglect and being FORCE by Gov-Guns to reproduce. So when you figure out how a woman can give her pregnancy up for adoption come back and see us...
I don't see a federal role in marriage. My understanding is that for 200+ years of our history, marriage was more or less the exclusive domain of the states. The states can decide whether (or how) same sex marriages need any special consideration.
"the states can decide."...........
the way to say "we want to violate people's rights," in polite company.
for over 100yrs, people have been getting married in vegas, and other states were required to honor it...... so your understanding is not quite correct. there has always been a federal element to ensuring marriages from one state are recognized in others.
you want zero government in marriage... i could get behind that. but saying you want to leave it to the states translates to "i want to ban it wherever i can get away with it."
+10000000000000
Ahh yes. The respecting of rights by forcing everyone to agree to the same moral structure. Totally a respecting of rights.
One size fits all is sure to ruffle the least feathers.
Its the federal level they usually settle for one size fits none
nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. nobody can force you to not be a bigot. nobody can force you to attend or perform a gay marriage. nobody can force you to act like a decent human being. they are just allowed to get a piece of paper that you do not have to give them.
So we are ignoring actual events like lawsuits against bakers or wedding venues to participate?
Where else can we ignore reality?
Yes. They are forcing a condition among all various aspects of society. There are 350 million people here. They have the right to travel. They have the right to gather and advocate for things. Disallowing a smaller group to do something they agree with is forcing a moral view on them.
Idealism is terrible and authoritarian no matter the belief. Libertarians shouldn't shun a group that decides to create a religious community and disallow them to pass laws as long as the right to travel exists. People can leave communities.
Federalism is nearly the ideal for libertarians as it allows people the freedom to choose which societal cultures they wish to join.
What you are arguing for is to force a common belief on all communities.
"So we are ignoring actual events like lawsuits against bakers or wedding venues to participate?"
no.... that just has nothing to do with what we are talking about..... we are talking about the ability to get married at all.
"Disallowing a smaller group to do something they agree with is forcing a moral view on them. "
except.... you seem to have the roles reversed here. the gay's are the smaller group that some people are obsessed with disallowing to do something.... the "only a man and woman" crowd are the only ones trying to force a moral view on anyone. gays are not advocating that ONLY they can get married.
"What you are arguing for is to force a common belief on all communities."
Bullshit.... what i am arguing for is to live your own life and leave other people to live theirs.... you are the one advocating to force beliefs on others.... you just want to use the state governments to do it because the federal government won't support your desired beliefs.
I stopped after your first sophomoric response where you get to dismiss reality because it hurts your argument. Lol.
how does i dismiss anything, and how does it hurt my argument?,
was it the part where i didn't take the bait to talk about something unrelated, or the part where you realized you were so stupid that you described exactly what you are advocating for as wrong?
As a gay man, I don’t believe I have a right to marry. Nor do I see anything wrong with government favoring heterosexual unions.
If there were concerns about equality under the law in certain areas, they could have been addressed with domestic partnership legislation.
This reeks of "as a black man."
It wouldn't matter if you are or aren't gay. You don't get to argue for stripping rights just because you're part of that group.
Dumbass.
You mean the compromise solution that conservatives refused by constitutional amendment in over 20 states?
What projection.
Forcing morality?
Look in the mirror you fucking dumbass.
No one has forced you to do shit but your aversion to gay marriage and being a bigot shouldn't be a reason to stop it.
What an absolute cunt you are.
Yes, you are.
If you were paying attention to the actual events, you would know that most of those famous cases weren't actually about marriage and happened in states before those states recognized same-sex marriage, civil unions, domestic partnerships, and so-on.
What those cases were about was non-discrimination in public accommodation laws. And as those cases showed, those laws protected gay folk even without marriage. And as dozens of states have shown since Obergefell have shown, you can have same-sex marriage and your boss can fire you for it.
Which is to say, you are intentionally conflating two issues (marriage and non-discrimination laws) because you're either ignorant (and legitimately thought that 2016 Obergefel led to 2005 Elane Photography) or an asshole (and don't care).
We’ll certainly nobody can force YOU not to be a bigot, Foo_dd
"the way to say "we want to violate people's rights," in polite company."
What rights would the states be violating?
And who gets to say those are rights in the first place?
the right to equal treatment under the law.
i know bigots have a long history of having a problem with that one.
See how quickly you had to jump to calling anyone disagreeing with you a bigot?
only when they are acting like bigots..... gay hating bigots just happen to be the only ones who have a problem with gays getting married.
How is asking for state definition of marriage anti gay?
Youre really failing at logic. Even if a state declarws the purpose of marriage is for procreation you'd be wrong. As your definition of bigotry implies a negative animus to their reasoning.
So again. You call anyone who doesn't agree with you a bigot.
it is anti gay because of how transparent it is. you want it to be a state issue, because you KNOW at least some states will ban gay marriage. you have an objective, and all your other BS is just your search for an excuse.
which is why you deliberately ignore the fact that if any state allows gay marriage, the constitution requires all other states to recognize those marriages. the most any state could accomplish is forcing gay people to cross state lines.... and then they still have to treat them as married anyway, when they get back.... which kind of stupid, if you had any desire to be honest.
Frankly. Since the government status of "marriage" is mostly legislated with the intention of being for 2-People who make offspring.. It really has nothing more to do with "equal treatment" than proclaiming unless everyone is taxed for the exact same amount it's "UN-equal treatment"...
And perhaps it is but you're really reaching to justify something that frankly shouldn't matter. It's a government STATUS symbol. It's not like anyone is trying to make butt-poking illegal --- like they're trying to do to people's pregnancy PERSONAL choices.
what a load of BS..... there is absolutely nothing in any legal definition of marriage that requires anyone to "make offspring." death benefits, medical proxy, next of kin, social security, insurance, etc., etc...... not a single goddamned thing about marriage law has anything at all to do with "making offspring." hell, if you marry a woman with a child to another man, you still have to adopt the kid to have any rights over that kid. the whole "making offspring" argument ignores the fact that, legally, that has nothing to do with anything in the definition of marriage. you can get married and never have children......
and.... again.... you dip shits can't help yourselves but attack the governments ability to restrict marriage while simultaneously defending the restrictions..... were you not paying attention to the post you were responding to? you just tried to defend the government trying to restrict the ability to get married, and then attacked it as a "status symbol." if it is just a "status symbol," then how can you support any restrictions on it? if it doesn't matter, then why does it matter?
It doesn't matter.....
Who the F really cares if the government issues a "marriage" license????
Does NOT getting a "marriage" license curb anyone's Individual Liberty??? NO....
It's a government issued ******** ENTITLEMENT ************...
Has absolutely nothing to do with 'rights'.
I'm a bit tired of activist gays constantly agitating for special rights.
If marriage=man+woman, there is no unequal treatment in not extending the same privileges to a man+man arrangement. In that case, if you want the privileges accompanying marriage you're free to draw up a legal contract you and your partner sign, just like anybody else.
the legal contract you are saying they are "free to draw up" is a MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE!!!!! you are literally trying to say they can't get married, and then defining the legal process of getting married as what they can do instead. you just don't want it to be as easy or let them call it "marriage." (and, somehow, you can't understand how that is unequal.)
Yes. Government should practice contract enforcement, not as defining contracts for people.
you are really digging deep on the stupid, today.....
you don't want the government to define contracts.... you just want the state governments to define contracts.....
if you were really interested in maximum freedom, you would want to limit any restrictions ANY government can put on the contract..... not bellyache about the ways people want to prevent the government from limiting that right to contract, or trying to say the states should have the ability to limit that contract. you would be arguing that you should be able to marry your sex doll, and NOBODY should be able to force their morality on you to disallow it.
you are arguing that the government should not define contracts, while simultaneously trying to say the government should be allowed to define contracts.... you really are that stupid.
If government wasn't recognizing the 'marriage' status you'd have a point. Otherwise you don't.
And you're correct to say government shouldn't be defining the 'marriage' status but you're incorrect to say that status has to be applied to people who DON'T fit it's original description.
It's the same B.S. the Pro-Life crowd sponsors... It's a "baby"??? No; It doesn't fit the definition of a "baby" so lets play f*cken word re-definition games...
"And you're correct to say government shouldn't be defining the 'marriage' status but you're incorrect to say that status has to be applied to people who DON'T fit it's original description."
you can't make this shit up....... in one sentence, you have said the government should not define marriage.... and then defended the government defining marriage.... do you really not see the direct conflict in your statement? do you really not understand that acknowledging that the government should have no power to limit marriage is completely incompatible with defending government limits on marriage?
lol... What a load of B.S.... I'm not defending government defining marriage I'm saying so long as it is; It has every right to define that Gov-Status however it feels it wants to.
So when the government is no longer issuing "marriage" licenses you can go ahead and marry your goat... No one gives a flying F.
Just don't run around pretending that Gov-Status has to bend to fit whatever you want it to. It's an 'entitlement' status not a 'right' or 'privilege'...
UR pretending government HAS to grant something to everyone equally - like if one person is granted a prison sentence everyone gets one or it's not fair.
Government has no place standardizing contract for marriage, but if they're going to it should be as minimal as possible. Thousands of years of civilized history and basic biology provide support for considering common marriage, the standard, as between male and female. There is no reason but your feelz for the state to include the abnormal in the standard.
The right to freely CONTRACT with another.
The right to a Civil Union??
Foo_dd, who gave you the authority to tell gays and lesbians what we are supposed to want and need?
what?
seriously...... what?
people have been getting married in vegas, and other states were required to honor it.
What was requiring that?
full faith and credit clause of the constitution.
So my concealed carry permit applies in New York?
in my opinion, it should.
And no congressional or federal law is required to support that clause. Yet you advocate for one.
Eat a bullet, fatass
your mom is too busy eating my dick, right now.
Feeble
yeah,... because "eat a bullet" is so original and clever.....
But before even that, marriage was a matter of fact by common law. If persons A and B said they were married to each other, and witnesses accepted them as married to each other, they were married to each other.
Then authorities started registering marriages, as a way to stop people from fraudulently holding themselves out as unmarried so as to marry multiple spouses without any of them knowing of each other. This would be incompatible with the general understandings of family law. However, it was not impossible, and was practiced in some cases, for persons to voluntarily register their marriages with some body such as a church; and it was not impossible for family law to expand to take account of polygamy and so on, or at least for mutual arrangements to be made in such cases.
Then authorities started licensing marriages, i.e. requiring permission for couples to get married, and we started down the road to Hell. Somewhere along the way the condition of licensure substituted for the fact of marriage. Do you know anything else that the possession of a license for makes it what it is? Does a fishing license get you a fish? Does a dog license on a cat make it a dog? Does an automobile license make it a motor vehicle and give it the ability to move under its own power?
So now apparently if a state says you have permission to be married, you're married, regardless of what anybody can plainly see about the facts of your condition.
If we went back to common law marriage with voluntary registration with private authorities, same-sex marriage or "marriage" would not be an issue. Nor would "notorious" polygamy.
Would this "get government out of marriage"? Of course not. Not as long as anyone ever took the issue of a marriage to court. There would still be a need for family law, causing some exceptions in the general law that has us each as autonomous individuals. Nor could these provisions all be taken care of by contract or corporate law, although many principles of those could be applied.
" so as to marry multiple spouses without any of them knowing of each other"
Why exactly is that a permissible concern of government, but restricting marriage to one man and one woman is not?
The person is violating a contract.
It wasn't Vegas marriages that were so popular, but Vegas divorces. And therein lay problems.
See- you've cracked the code.
They're just fascists, plain and simple. They will do whatever and say whatever to get things their way.
I'd be happier if they just admitted it and said "fuck your rights" instead of acting like they have any principles at all.
The states should have no interest in it either. When they get involved, they are taking my federally guaranteed rights away.
The federal government recognizes marriage for tax and immigration purposes. And arguably, if people from some states can claim a certain benefit, so should people from others be able to.
First hold some hearings to show how absolutely fabulous govt-recognized gay marriage has been, and how it's had no downside, and basically rebut the haters. Then there will be a legislative record to back up the passage of the bill.
Topic to be covered in the hearings could include how unfair and exaggerated are the claims of violating freedom of association and religious freedom. Then they could show that there have been no side effects like other sexual minorities letting their freak flags fly. Then they could hear about how there's still more work to be done by taking testimony from the polygamists.
It would be a wonderful media event!
They can get James Goldston back in the mix once he is done with the Jan 6th Committee.
Pretty sure that a law passed by Congress doesn't override constitutionality, which is what the SC rules on in the first place.
An amendment might be what they're thinking of, but of course it seems improbable they have enough votes to pass an amendment on any topic at all let alone this topic in particular.
what would happen is that if the court overturned it's ruling, this law would take over and the impact would be the same. for gay marriage, this is well within congresses power without any need for an amendment. (that why they are digging up a bill they were introducing before the court ruled.)
this is well within congresses power
How? What other social interactions do you want government to handle at the federal level?
Have you ever noticed how states are forced to accept the drivers licenses issued by other states? You're demanding the people get remarried everytime they move, or do we need a complex web of "Well, State A recognizes marriages from State B but not State C, meanwhile State B recognizes marriages from State C." type governmental BS?
Is congress allowed to set driving standards among the states? No. The states merely have to recognize it. There is no federal driving test.
You are mixing up recognition for a state level requirement. No law is needed at the federal level to force states to do X, merely recognize X.
You do realize you need to get a new driver's license when you change states and should you move to a state that doesn't recognize my concealed carry then I'm shit out of luck and shouldn't have moved there.
how fucking stupid are you? marriage in this context, is a legal arrangement. it determines next of kin, survivor-ship, medical proxies, etc., etc....... it has nothing to do with "social interactions."
State law determines all of those. Where does the Constitution grant Congress the power to define the legalities of marriage?
Immigration and federal taxes, however, cannot be done at the state level.
Regulating these at the federal level is reasonable.
So stupid I actually understand state vs federal powers.
You seemingly do not.
Likewise every one of those things can be done through actual contracts. There is no requirement for a vaguely defined partnership at the federal level.
Next up you will ask states to determine the language for wills. You know to be consistent.
Sorry you dont understand a federalist system.
On what grounds would a gay marriage law be unconstitutional?
Ain’t any!!
At the federal level it isn't a delegated power of the 'feds' and therefore by the 10th Amendment has to be left to the States or to the People.
I probably wasn't clear enough, but what I'm saying is if they want to insulate gay marriage from the Supreme Court a law isn't what they're looking for.
to overturn a a law, they would not only have to overturn the ruling saying gay people can get married, they would have to find that a law letting them get married was a violation of the constitution...... that just isn't possible.
Why yes, they could, depending on how they define the scope of Congress' Constitutional powers in this context. The violation wouldn't be because "gays are allowed to marry", but because Congress would have acted outside the powers granted to it under the Constitution. States declaring gay marriage illegal would have standing to challenge this federal law.
Of course, I think there are Equal Protection, Full Faith and Credit, and maybe even Privileges and Immunities grounds to overturn state laws banning gay marriage, but Congress has no say.
"States declaring gay marriage illegal would have standing to challenge this federal law."
except that it would require them to openly violate the full faith and credit clause of the constitution, as several states explicitly recognize gay marriage. to challenge this law, those states would have to violate the constitution itself.
Texas has spent more years ignoring same-sex marriages from other states then it has spent recognizing them, so I'm not sure why you think this is so unthinkable. Texas is full of fuck-weasels like that.
Not only possible, but a slam-dunk. Regulation of marriage is a states-rights issue and the feds have nothing to say on the matter.
SCOTUS can find, correctly, that parts of the law are not covered by the delegated powers.
what would happen is that if the court overturned it's ruling, this law would take over and the impact would be the same.
Let me guess, you are not a lawyer?
let me guess, you're a jackass.
Not according to the current administration in power. The SCOTUS is just getting in their way of having their way....with all of us.
Alternate headline: Democrats discover Democracy.
^THIS is why this nation is falling apart....
The USA was founded on a U.S. Constitution (enforced by the Supreme Court) which is essentially "The People's" law ***over*** their government.
It is very concerning to hear people say 'legislating' from the bench or 'federal over-reach' when the Supreme Court is the subject.
The Supreme Court is the "Police" over governments ( does not legislate over people ) it serves as the only means of enforcement for run-away governments.
And this topic right here is THE PROBLEM... A government that legislates 'Individual Rights' can "Democratically" (by Politician Representation) legislate them away..... Entirely dismissing the USA (as per it's definition the U.S. Constitution) for Democratic Nazism (National Socialism).
The US constitution is democratically amended.
The Supreme Court is the "Police" over governments ( does not legislate over people ) it serves as the only means of enforcement for run-away governments.
And no it's not. If you went to college, you should ask for your money back. It is a co-equal branch of government than can be "checked and balanced" by the other two branches.
And which "checks and balance" upholds "The People's" law **OVER** law/executive government???
Democracy can take many forms. It is not synonymous with maximal individual rights.
If Congress were to pass the Respect for Marriage Act
Given how many of them have affairs with their staffers, it would be a teeny bit hypocritical.
Well, we know the names they give the bills mean the opposite of what the bills actually do.
I love how Scott, a gay man, is defending that gay persons be able to "marry", but where is his defense of other person's rights in regards to marriage? How about polygamists? Why can I not marry 2 women? 3? Why am I limited to one person I can truly love? Why can't Scott marry two other men?
in principle, i like where you are going....
in practice, modern day polygamists tend to be more along the lines of pedophiles and child abuse..... i don't know how you ever get widespread support for that.
Ahh, so your last 2 posts were about federally cementing your moral code into law, not about actual freedoms.
you really are a dumb fuck.
i said i liked it in principle..... but i am not stupid enough to think that law could pass.... is "i don't think you can get that law through" really too complicated for your dumb ass to understand?
Lol. For pointing out your sophomoric legal reasoning?
Youre not for rights as apparent in this post. Youre not for differences opinions of state cultures. The only thing you are for is one size fits all authoritarian federal government.
yeah..... "mind your own business" is soooo authoritarian..... your position of denying the same legal protections to gays is definitely the true freedom perspective.... /s
Demand that your marriage be recognized is not allowing people to mind their own business, it's forcing them to legitimize your coupling
If there is even one group of individuals who want a polygamist marriage, then there should be no reason for the states to refuse to recognize the group's marriage. We're talking about rights here, not what's popular.
No no. Everyone has to match Foos moral code. That's true liberty.
Foo doesn't have morality. Morality is defined by the limits we impose on ourselves.
Foo has yearnings, desires, and demands.
fuck off, dummy.
as i said.... and the dumb seem to fail to understand..... i agree in principle.......
it boggles my mind how people obsessed with not allowing gays to get married now want to blather on about polygamy.... when i have not even said i was against it.... if you are going to pick a straw man, you really should make sure it does not directly contrast with what you are fighting for.....
I think your point was valid.
We can get the government out of marriage and still prohibit pedophilia and child abuse.
that is the dream..... shorter term, the goal should be to limit the ways any government restricts the ability for people to enter into this consenting contract with each other, as much as we can.
Exactly. If Joe wants to enter into a marriage contract with MX, and Mary wants to enter into a marriage contract with MX, how can that be prohibited if they have equal protection?
All marriages should be private.
Winner.
Government should only be about contract enforcement.
if that is true, then why do you want states to be allowed to prevent gays from getting married? when you say you want government out of it, you are a liar.....
That is the ideal. But how do gov agencies recognize inheritance, visitation, and such privileges?
A. Each person should designate one other person for those privileges. A situational POA.
The standard argument I've heard for years when I've said the government should not be involved in marriage was that marriage was a contract and that women would end up with little or nothing in divorces while men would get it all.
Pure tripe and BS. But, those who said it out loud were true believers. I wasn't going to change their mind.
Gold diggers have a powerful lobby
That is the ideal. But how do gov agencies recognize inheritance, visitation, and such privileges?
A. Each person should designate one other person for those privileges.
Because Christians were scared of Mormons in the 1800s and Sister Wives didn't move the needle enough on polygamy.
Which is to say... gay folk spent decades moving the needle on public opinion. Polygamists need to put in the work if they want to get the results.
One, even if the Supreme Court overturns Obergefell by distancing itself from substantive due process doctrine, it would not be the Court deciding the status of "gay marriage", but the state legislatures. Shackford had no problem with the Court deciding, when it decided the way he wanted. Of course, going by polls, "gay marriage" was not especially popular at the time of Obergefell.
But where does the Federal legislature derive authority over marriage that overrides the states? A federal government that has the power to give you what you want has the power to take everything away. Tread lightly around that crocodile you set loose.
A federal government that has the power to give you what you want has the power to take everything away.
Roe v Wade is settled law... *checks earpiece*
DAMNIT!
There you go again; pretending that the U.S. Constitution is "federal over-reach"....
That's a very dangerous precedence that is essentially dismissing the USA (very definition U.S. Constitution) for a pure "democratic" tyrannical nation...
The first finding was the correct one. The second finding was the incorrect one.
You never had a constitutional right to kill another human being.
I know, I know, that fetus doesn’t exist *eyeroll*
Put it into existence... Set it free! Fetal Ejection.
Outside of imaginary worlds of unicorns...
If you cannot support ?baby? freedom
UR supporting Gov-Gun FORCED reproduction.
But where does the Federal legislature derive authority over marriage that overrides the states?
Commerce clause.
Not a joke. No sarcasm. That's the real answer.
If Obergefell goes down with Substantive Due Process, anyone who thinks that congress doesn't have authority to do literally anything it wants is clowning themselves. You might not like it, but this is the path that was chosen.
Yeah, we know they will appeal to the Commerce Clause. The one good thing about Robert's plurality opinion in NFID v. Sebelius (2012) was that he limited the scope of Congress' Commerce Clause powers (i.e., Congress cannot compel individuals to engage in interstate commerce to purchase health insurance; of course, he upheld the penalty for noncompliance per Congress' power to levy taxes, but that's a separate matter). Not since Scalia's opinion in U.S. v. Lopez (1995) had SCOTUS restricted Congress' reach under the CC. Given its current makeup, I'm not so certain SCOTUS wouldn't overturn Congressional legislation like the "Respect for Marriage Act" despite its promulgation pursuant to the CC.
While I fervently hope that Justice Gorsuch's opinion in Bostock v. Clayton County, 590 U.S. ___ (2020) (discrimination against homosexuals/transgendered persons is "sex" discrimination under Title VII) would hold laws against same-sex marriage violated the 14th Amendment's equal protection clause as sex discrimination (a better reasoning than Obergefell's substantive due process), I do think that Congress might have trouble with the Supreme Court were it to pass a same-sex marriage right statute under the commerce clause, which, indeed, does have limits. See United States v. Lopez, 514 U.S. 549 (1995) (a statute outlawing gun possession in school zones isn't related to interstate commerce); United States v. Morrison, 529 U.S. 598 (2000) (federal remedy for victims of gender-motivated violence can't be sustained under the commerce clause).
States should have to recognize marriages that take place in other states, but that doesn't mean all states must be forced to perform those marriages themselves.
How does striking down Obergefell on substantive due process grounds in any way expand Congress’ power under the Commerce Clause? What does one have to do with the other?
Where do the state derive authority for regulating marriage? After all, it's historically been a religious institution.
The definition of 'marriage' by Gov-Guns is nothing but Social Engineering.
The 9th Amendment should make it impossible to undo existing rights, including marriage rights.
In the amendment the word “retained” is past tense. It would govern equal marriage rights (or any right or freedom) for one day or ten years - both are “retained” in the past tense.
Being "married" isn't inherent to begin with...
It's a mark of "entitlement" status from government itself.
State recognition of marriage is, Constitutionally speaking, a privilege.Which may be subject to equal protection claims, but is most certainly not within the purview of Federal law.
The 9th isn't a model of clarity, but I would venture a guest that "retained" means "retained at the time the Constitution was adopted."
Yes, that's what it means.
I said it in the morning, but if .fed isn't allowed to law abortion, then it cannot do so for marriage.
How many children have gay marriages produced? Ever?
You don't need a marriage to produce children. In fact, it's my experience that Marriage is the number one contributor to reduction in the activities most likely to produce children.
That may well be in fact, but infertility was traditionally sufficient reason to annul a marriage.
If people didn't have children — if they sprang fully formed from the sky or something — there'd be no reason for family law, including marriage. Family law is an exception to one of the legal principles of individual liberty: that we act as individuals, hence should be legally treated as such. So there'd better be a good reason for that exception.
A reason if asked for. Just like many other reasons a couple may ask for divorce or annulment. And like those others, if the couple was chill with it, then it didn't matter.
Only after it’s helped create a few of the little crotch goblins.
moar lawz! how about the federal government and marriage divorce instead?
Let scientists settle it. Science is the law.
yesterday Prosecutors were the Science. who knew?
The whole acceptance of same-sex "marriage" as such discourages me, because it proves a small set of activists can hijack a societal institution that was arrived at for a completely different purpose, and gotten acquiescence from the society at large, apparently on the basis of, "Let's do something nice for the homosexuals, inasmuch as they've been so put-upon," causing people to not think about why society has developed its rules. There was no legitimate problem that same-sex marriage was directed at that could not have been addressed without upending the basis of family law.
Of course marriage had already been undercut by the replacement of requiring legal cause for divorce by no-fault divorce. Apparently the path to true freedom, with bilateral divorce (with fault in some cases), was barred, and only unilateral divorce remained as the path to escape.
The affair makes me think glumly that the ongoing attempt to replace sex by gender will similarly succeed in making the world stop thinking and negate all its progress hitherto in knocking down sex stereotypes and prejudice. We're heading into a future not of freedom but of permissiveness.
We're heading into a future not of freedom but of permissiveness.
Is there a situation in which a state of freedom and a state of permissiveness do not go hand-in-hand?
Yes, including the ones I listed above. But also others where a pre-existing right is over-ridden by a presumption of permission by right. So for instance, free copying regardless of intellectual property; free movement regardless of trespass; freedom to swing one's fist regardless of noses; freedom to create emissions that are in some manner noxious; freedom to emit things that must be legally treated as dollars, pounds, etc.; freedom to sell a vegan product as mayonnaise.
"We're heading into a future not of freedom but of permissiveness."
Yep, just look at how marijuana "legalization " has played out.
And permission is not liberty.
Surely THIS is the time that Democrats realize that if marriage is about spending your life with who you love, they need to legalize polygamy, right?
Or are we still discriminating against people for their private, personal choices?
Frankly I think polygamy ought to be legal, just as any contract may justly be between two parties, or may be between multiple parties. As foo notes above, though, many polygamist arrangements tend to be rooted in exploitation and abuse, but that is not an argument for keeping polygamy illegal, that is an argument against the abusive/exploitative behavior.
" tend to be rooted in exploitation and abuse,"
Awesome, let's look at rates of domestic violence among lesbians...
Haow about among heterosexual partners married or not.
Lesbians beat the shit out of them
This is correct.
Democrats prefer to have law made by executive fiat or Court ruling (when it goes their way).
Whether allowed or barred, gay marriage is one of the LEAST important things going on today.
Polygamy will be amended to this bill not long after. That's the real goal.
Marriage and family law is clearly a matter for the State not the feds--this is beyond well established. If the Sup Ct were to overturn the gay marriage coup, it would also overturn any federal law purporting to require state to recognize but pirate marriage.
unfortunately, for you, the constitution does have a very explicit clause about states recognizing marriages from other states...... since some states allow for same sex marriages, all the other states have to recognize those marriages. as much as you guys want to pretend this is not a federal issue, it is baked into the constitution even before the bill of rights..... sorry, but California and Nevada law have to be respected by other states, whether you like it or not.
All the bickering about gay marriage, but gay couples have the highest divorce rate of any group.
unfortunately.... you are a liar.....
https://www.mckinleyirvin.com/resources/same-sex-marriage-divorce-in-washington/divorce-for-same-sex-couples/
Actually you're a liar, shreek. Which is actually one of your better qualities. You're also a kiddie fucker who got banned for posting dark web links to hardcore child pornography at Reason.com (imagine that, a faggot gay marriage activist is a pedophile). How many pages deep in Google did you need to get before you found a Washington State divorce lawyer citing a UCLA study from 4 years before gay marriage was legal nationwide and 1 year before gay marriage was even legal in Washington state to try to pretend that fags are monogamous when they will proudly tell you that they aren't, and that non-monogamy is part of their subversive sexuality?
You truly are one of the most amazingly stupid pieces of shit I have ever encountered, shreek. Did you not read the link, or did you just hope that nobody else would?
I've noticed sarcasmic is so far up your asshole I can see his smile in his eyes. You should ask him if you can get a turn fucking his underage daughter. Cost him his marriage, maybe it can finally put you in prison where you belong, you sick piece of child raping shit.
HAHAHAHAHAHA....
what a load of BS!!!
re: The Margrave of Azilla
If the 9th Amendment term “retained” only applied to rights and freedoms in 1791, wouldn’t that concept apply to “retained” gun rights in 1791?
In 1791, only single-shot guns existed. The Gatlin Gun (multiple round weapons) wasn’t invented until about 100 years later.
This is the dumbest line of argument possible.
Trust a faggot to always find it. Now watch him blow his stack when you tell him that "regulated" in "well-regulated militia" means "trained" or "disciplined", not "gun control".
Since Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Roberts have all signed off on pro-fag cases and show absolutely no willingness whatsoever to even consider overturning fag marriage, these retarded cum-garglers have absolutely nothing to worry about any more than the stupid cunts living in California or NYC who think Arkansas laws restricting abortion apply to them, but they wouldn't be faggots if they weren't incredibly stupid pieces of shit affecting female histrionics.
A better law would be to make it a contract between two consenting adults and let "marriage" be done separately without government involvement.
just so you know..... just letting any two consenting adults get a marriage certificate would have the exact same impact....
everyone gets the piece of paper they want, and they all get to say they are married. (because, in your scenario, there is nothing preventing them from saying they are married.... and they will....)
Like a civil union?
Why do you need an act? Its a marriage license and should be fully covered by Article 4, Section 1, Full Faith and Credit clause. Just like my Driver's License.
That driver's license UR required to re-attain at each State you live in??
This issue is a no-brainer for anyone who actually believes in individual liberty - obviously gay people should be allowed to get married. Doesn't harm me or my family so why should I stop people from getting married.
I'm a bit shocked at how many so-called libertarians think it's more important for the federal government to protect state governments' rights than to protect individual rights.
As a libertarian I feel the primary goal of the government should be to protect our freedom.
It's crony social engineering... The only excuse gay people have to claim the Gov-Status symbol of 'married' is for tax breaks, and crony financial laws.
They can get 'married' by their OWN definition all they want but if they want government (the people's) STATUS symbol they need to fit it's proper definition. Exactly like the word fugitive has a specific meaning for certain acts of people and criminals the same.. The government doesn't run around calling everyone a criminal and/or fugitive just because..... It has legislative meaning.
And frankly; every tax-code or legislative act previously that used the term 'married' was specifically for a man and a woman who produces offspring (children) of their own DNA.
Or heck....... Maybe the new fad to pretend to be gay and get married has everything to do with ILLEGAL immigration and fraudulent citizenship???
I always wondered what the new butt-poking fad was all about... Seriously; who would want to poke a poopy butt to begin with; let alone go through such crazy levels of political grand standing for recognition and fight for it's government status blessing.... geeeezzzz...
Considering that 80+ million Americans (supposedly) voted for Joe fucking Biden, you may be onto something.
And your maturely worded comment isn't unserious?