Why Ryan Reynolds Can Use Winnie-the-Pooh To Sell You a Phone Plan
As pop culture icons enter the public domain, a strange new era of copyright begins.

On January 1, 2022, the original Winnie-the-Pooh book fell into the public domain. That means any individual or corporation can now use the bear in new books or movies without paying a licensing fee to Disney, which has controlled the copyright to the character since the 1960s.
The next day, actor Ryan Reynolds marked the occasion with a YouTube ad for his wireless company, Mint Mobile. Reynolds read from a new book called Winnie-the-Screwed, about a bear who was paying too much for wireless service. "Like anyone with a big wireless plan, Winnie-the-Screwed just wants to keep some of his sweet, sweet money," the book said. "But his money jar gets emptier and emptier with every monthly bill."
In the 20th century, media companies built lucrative franchises around characters like Pooh, Mickey Mouse, Batman, and Superman. In the coming years, it will become legal for anyone—from aspiring comic book authors to actors hawking wireless service—to use these legendary characters for their own purposes. Mickey Mouse will become available for public use in 2024. Superman will fall into the public domain in 2034, followed by Batman in 2035.
For those who favor looser intellectual property laws generally and shorter copyright lengths specifically, these characters' entry into the public domain is a long-overdue victory. But it's also a preview of coming legal headaches and complications, especially with regard to some icons of pop culture. Though the new era will be messy at the start, the ultimate result will be a richer, more vibrant culture. Not only will there be more freedom for creators, but there will be more options for readers too.
Copyright Extensions? Oh Bother.
The Constitution requires that copyrights be granted for "limited times," and the 1790 Copyright Act guaranteed protection for up to 28 years. The idea was to offer authors a brief monopoly to reward them for their creativity, then let creative works be freely available for the public to use.
By the time A.A. Milne published the original Winnie-the-Pooh book in 1926, Congress had doubled the maximum copyright term to 56 years. If that law had remained in force, Pooh would have fallen into the public domain way back in 1982. But in a series of bills from 1962 to 1998, Congress repeatedly extended copyright protection. It was spurred on by lobbyists representing copyright holders, such as The Walt Disney Co., which held still-valuable copyrights from the 1920s.
Thanks to those repeated extensions, some books and cartoons about Pooh are still under copyright. And that means only certain aspects of the Pooh franchise are available for public use. For example, the 1928 book The House at Pooh Corner was the first to feature Tigger. So if you want to make a cartoon with both Pooh and Tigger in it, you'll need to either get permission from Disney or wait until that book falls into the public domain in 2024. And Pooh didn't appear in a red shirt until 1932, so someone making a modern Pooh cartoon might want to pick a different color—at least until that copyright expires in 2028.
Indeed, the modern image of Pooh owes a lot to the cartoons Disney started making in the 1960s. Those cartoons won't start falling into the public domain until the 2060s.
"If you're making a new Winnie the Pooh cartoon, you need to be careful to base your drawings on the original book and not on any of Disney's additions," says Jessica Litman, a law professor at the University of Michigan.
So for the next couple of decades at least, artists who create independent books or movies based on these famous characters will have lawyers for Disney and other copyright holders looking over their shoulders. They'll have to familiarize themselves not only with the public domain works they're copying, but also the still-copyrighted works they're not allowed to copy.
Sherlock Holmes and the Case of the Expiring Copyright
Arthur Conan Doyle published the first Sherlock Holmes book, A Study in Scarlet, in 1887, so the character of Sherlock Holmes has been in the public domain since the mid-20th century. But Doyle's last few Holmes stories were still under copyright when Congress started extending copyright in the 1960s. As a result, a few Holmes books are still under copyright today. Holmes' slow shift into the public domain offers a preview of the sorts of thorny legal disputes that are likely to arise as more works come out of copyright.
In 2006, the author Nancy Springer began publishing a series of young adult novels about Sherlock's teenage sister, Enola Holmes, solving mysteries while she searches for her missing mother. Enola's older brothers Sherlock and Mycroft appear in these novels, but the series' main character, Enola, was entirely Springer's invention.
Because most of the original Sherlock Holmes stories were in the public domain, Springer and her publisher didn't think they needed a license from the estate of Arthur Conan Doyle. The estate didn't challenge the publication of the series for more than a decade. But it took a harder line once Netflix announced plans to make a movie based on Springer's novels. In 2020, the estate sued both Springer and Netflix, arguing that both the books and the movie infringed the copyright of the later Sherlock Holmes books that were still under copyright.
It wasn't the first such fight. Leslie S. Klinger, a writer and attorney specializing in genre fiction, asked a court to declare that his 2011 anthology of Holmes-inspired stories, A Study in Sherlock, could be published without licensing fees. An appeals court sided with Klinger, ruling in 2014 that the estate didn't own the character of Sherlock Holmes—it only owned specific details from the 1920s stories that were still under copyright.
In the Enola Holmes case, the estate argued that Sherlock's personality had undergone a dramatic transformation in those later stories. Doyle had lost his son and brother in World War I. This had supposedly caused him to give the late Sherlock Holmes greater empathy and more respect for women than the early Sherlock. He even had a newfound appreciation for dogs.
"The Springer novels make extensive infringing use of Conan Doyle's transformation of Holmes from cold and critical to warm, respectful, and kind in his relationships," the estate argued in its complaint.
The defendants retorted this was nonsense. Character traits like warmth and kindness are too generic to receive copyright protection, they argued. Moreover, the early Holmes wasn't as coldly rational as the estate claimed.
For example, in the 1902 novel The Hound of the Baskervilles, Holmes discovers that a dead body was not who he feared it would be. Holmes' assistant Watson reports that Holmes "uttered a cry and bent over the body. Now he was dancing and laughing and wringing my hand." The next year, in the short story "The Solitary Cyclist," Watson reports that Holmes "halted, and I saw him throw up his hand with a gesture of grief and despair" when he learned about the disappearance of a woman he was trying to protect.
James Grimmelmann, a law professor at Cornell University, isn't impressed with the estate's arguments. "If you're taking basic character elements combined with things that are characteristics of all people, then you're not copying from the still-protected stories," he says.
We'll never know for sure who would have won, because the parties settled the case later in 2020. And the final Holmes stories will fall into the public domain at the end of 2022, so everyone will be free to reuse the entirety of the canon beginning next year.
But the fight over Sherlock Holmes provides a preview of future battles over famous characters. One big concern for independent creators is that defending against lawsuits like this is expensive. The Doyle estate forced Netflix and Springer to hire lawyers to defend themselves in court. The threat of such litigation may have helped the estate convince others to pay licensing fees, even if they didn't think the estate's legal position was especially strong.
The Most Wonderful Thing About Tigger Trademarks
Disney doesn't just control Pooh-related copyrights, it also holds trademarks for Pooh and his friends. In contrast to copyright, which protects creative works such as books and movies, a trademark protects the unique markings businesses use to identify their products. Unlike copyrights, trademarks do not automatically expire.
The trademark for Tigger, for example, covers a wide range of merchandise, from backpacks to bedsheets to bowling balls. So even after Disney loses the copyright for Tigger, it might not be legal for anyone else to sell Tigger-branded toothpaste.
In its legal battle with Netflix, the Doyle estate unsuccessfully tried to use trademark law to effectively obtain perpetual control over Sherlock Holmes books and movies. In addition to its copyright claims, the estate argued that Netflix had infringed the estate's trademarks by giving the public the false impression that Enola Holmes was endorsed by the Doyle estate.
You could imagine Disney using a similar tactic to try to maintain perpetual control over Pooh: arguing that an unauthorized Pooh cartoon infringed Disney's trademarks and misled consumers into believing the cartoon was produced by Disney.
But the courts have consistently rejected this gambit.
In 1949, Twentieth Century Fox produced a television program based on Crusade in Europe, a book about World War II by Dwight D. Eisenhower. Failure to renew the copyright caused the television program to fall into the public domain in 1977. A small video distributor called Dastar obtained copies of the program in 1995, removed the original credits, and sold the video as its own. Twentieth Century Fox sued, arguing that Dastar had violated trademark law by removing the original credits, thereby deceiving the public about the show's origins.
The Supreme Court ruled against Twentieth Century Fox in 2003. Allowing trademark law to be used in this way would create "a species of perpetual patent and copyright," Justice Antonin Scalia wrote. And that's not allowed under the Constitution, which requires that copyrights and patents be granted only "for limited times."
The same goes for famous characters like Pooh. If publishing a new Pooh book infringes Disney's trademark, the practical result would be little different than extending Disney's Pooh copyright in perpetuity.
So Disney's trademarks won't prevent people from creating new Pooh works. But they'll have to be careful. "You need to advertise the hell out of the fact that this is based on the original" Winnie-the-Pooh book, Litman says. "You're allowed to truthfully advertise what you're doing, but you want to avoid anyone thinking that this is a Disney product."
Disney will probably always maintain control over some uses of its characters. For example, Grimmelmann says, even after Steamboat Willie is in the public domain "you can't use Mickey Mouse as a trademark on your theme park."
But the line between these things isn't always clear. What about a T-shirt or a lunchbox with Pooh on it? Is that a reproduction of a public domain image, and therefore legal, or an infringement of Disney's trademark?
In the coming decades, people will have a chance to re-imagine characters like Pooh and Batman for new generations, just as people have long created new adaptations of William Shakespeare plays and Jane Austen novels. But the repeated extension of copyright means that the process is taking a lot longer than in the past.
If we still had 56-year copyright terms, millennials would have grown up in a world where Mickey Mouse and Pooh were already free from copyright restrictions. Instead of one authorized Batman movie every couple of years, studios would be competing to produce the best Batman movies. We'd be able to look forward to independent Star Trek films in 2023 and unauthorized Star Wars films in 2034. This would be a win not just for writers, but also for audiences, who would have access to a broad range of new works that aren't controlled by their current owners.
Instead, corporate-owned copyrights last 95 years. If a book or movie is published in your lifetime, you'll very likely be dead before its copyright expires.
This article originally appeared in print under the headline "Why Ryan Reynolds Can Use Winnie-the-Pooh To Sell You a Phone Plan."
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Don't forget the Pooh Bear porn.
Rule 34 ftw.
I’ll take your word on that.
Winnie the Pooh: Commie Dictator.
I’m guessing poor sales in China, but a thriving black market.
"Leslie S. Klinger [ . . . ] asked a court to declare that his 2011 anthology of Holmes-inspired stories, A Study in Sherlock, could be published without licensing fees. An appeals court sided with Klinger"
Carry on, Klinger . . .
If he had lost, would he have been a desperate Klinger?
Maybe if he hadn't already won the 'culture war.'
Klinger wins appeal on Section 8.
+1 M*A*S*H
Got to meet Hot Lips at a jewelry design trade show once, she custom signed my DVD collection for my dad.
Loretta Swit, way nicer IRL than who she played on the show. Lovely person, my dad was thrilled.
I despise copyright, patents, and all intellectual property; it seems to me that one of the defining characteristics of property is the ability to control access to it, as with a fence or front door lock. If an author wants to use DRM to control access, that's fine with me, but I have seen DRM usage which claims you owe access fees every time you read it. Some DRM proponents claim they can forbid you to read a protected book out loud, or go back and re-read a passage. Not too many people will go along with that. And unprotected copies will show up, with little recourse except to find the DRM breaker; good luck trying to recover all the copies, so you have lost effective control of your property, unlike with physical property.
Copyright is also a fence which works both ways. Just as it locks the rest of the world out, it locks the copyright owner in. Imagine how much fresher Mickey Mouse et al would be if others had been able to produce their own visions, or Sherlock Holmes. Sherlock Holmes pastiches add spice and variety.
I think there is a place for things like copyright protections and patents, it just needs to be a lot more limited than it has become as it evolved.
The article says it started out at 28 years, and even that seems high to me - I thought it was originally something like 14, which seems about right in length to me.
Also, that obviously only applies to things that are published publicly. IP like trade secrets, technical specifications or detailed drawings for proprietary equipment, etc, that are not publicly available, should always be protected against theft.
The article says it started out at 28 years, and even that seems high to me - I thought it was originally something like 14, which seems about right in length to me.
The original text just says 'limited'. I think a big part of the problem is that the conception was that 'limited' would be considered in the context of the rest of the founding documents and not in isolation. If the government has a compelling interest in (e.g.) preventing Colt from going bankrupt because FN is flooding the market with cheap knockoffs, they have an interest in providing limited protection. Disney, with no real presence in OK (or even outside Reedy Creek in FL), preventing people from posting arrest videos on YouTube because the cops play 'Be Our Guest' or 'Hakuna Matata' is well beyond 'limited'.
The original was 14 years with one extension: 28 years total.
You haven't addressed the issue of how intellectual property can be actually protected. Economics can be called the study of scarcity. Physical property can be fenced off or locked up. How do you do that with words or pictures? Why is it legal to loan out books, either person-to-person or in libraries or in waiting rooms? Why is it legal to sell a copyrighted book, or to read out loud from a book? Would it be moral, or Constitutional, to ban lending or selling a book, or reading out loud? How about re-reading a book you bought a year ago, or even flipping back to re-read a prior passage?
All these problems are indicative of a broken premise.
Lest you think I am being silly, there was a prominent copyright trade association back in the early 2000s, similar to the MPAA, with a boss who made Jack Valenti look sane. She actually gave several speeches demanding that it be made illegal to read books out loud, even to your children or to blind people, or lending or selling books; the EU proposed a few years ago that even the few words of summary in Google News were a copyright violation.
Laws against murder or theft are mostly pretty clear cut with only a few tricky areas -- self-defense, for instance, showed some exemptions to exemptions in the Kyle Rittenhouse case (if you start a fight, you can't claim self-defense, even if you walk away and come back later). But copyright is entirely arbitrary with nothing natural about any of it, and the fact that someone would seriously suggest making it illegal to read a book to your kids shows how unnatural copyright is.
What in the fvck are you babbling about Rittenhouse
Seems you canna read, laddie. Self-defense has exemptions, which themselves have exemptions.
"You haven't addressed the issue of how intellectual property can be actually protected. Economics can be called the study of scarcity. Physical property can be fenced off or locked up. How do you do that with words or pictures?"
This doesn't make sense to me. Obviously, IP can be protected by the government threatening to throw you in jail if you violate them. The same way the government will protect your physical property by threatening to jail people if they steal it (whether you lock it up or not).
You seem to be making the argument that if you cannot "lock up" property, it can't be called property. But that is just question begging. You are essentially saying something cannot be property unless it is physical. If that is your argument, then fine I guess. But it calls into question all sorts of existing property laws, including rights of passage, water and mineral rights, easements, options contracts, and various other derivatives that are bought and sold as property all the time.
To me, the definition of "property" recalls the labor theory, as in a discussion from yesterday, that if you don't take any steps to protect your property, such as fencing in a ranch, how can you expect the public to know where your property begins and other property ends? I don't mean you must lock your car or house to avoid surrendering it to squatters; but some states have laws turning property over to squatters who live on it for ten years and pay the property taxes. Just as Columbus could not claim all of the Americas (or the Indies as he thought) without actually mixing his labor with the land, so must property be used and demarcated to be owned. If you give something away, you no longer own it; if you give a book, it is no longer yours. Yet copyright proponents have claimed the right to ban lending books or reading them out loud. I believe there was some Supreme Court case which made it legal to sell a book you had bought; the copyright holders had wanted to ban it or collect royalties or something.
I'm not explaining this very clearly, that's for sure. Intellectual property just doesn't sit right with me, as a matter of property. Inventors invented before there were patents, and composers and authors wrote before there were copyrights; they will continue to do so. Companies which survive by copying new products will always lag behind a generation or two. How many people would buy newly manufactured 6 year old iPhones or 10 year old cars? Some, sure, but not enough to make them as cheap as modern iPhones or cars. People pay a lot extra for real Gucci products because of its brand and reputation; how many celebrities buy the cheap knockoffs? Publishers paid Arthur Conan Doyle because he wrote so well; Sherlock Holmes stories by imitators would not have sold as well unless they were good in their own right and had written enough stories to build up their own reputation. Art thieves steal expensive paintings because people want the originals, no matter how well copies can be made. Intel, AMD, Samsung, Arm all sell new chips because people want the latest; trying to copy them involves such a lag that they will always be out of date, slow, and suspect as to how faithful the copy was.
I do not believe intellectual property is necessary, I believe it is a drag on innovation, and it is like every other symptom of government meddling: corrupt, inefficient, and worse for society.
"To me, the definition of "property" recalls the labor theory, as in a discussion from yesterday, that if you don't take any steps to protect your property, such as fencing in a ranch, how can you expect the public to know where your property begins and other property ends?"
But that has nothing to do with the Labor Theory. The labor theory comes from the notion that if you, through your labor, produce something it is yours. Whether you choose to actually enforce those property rights is a different matter.
Your argument seems to be that by enforcing your property rights, it becomes property. Well ok, so I can enforce my property rights by fencing my land...now it is property. Or I can enforce my property rights by beating up anyone who sings my new song...now it is property.
The argument I believe you are trying to make is that only things that are scarce can be property. That is, if something will never be scarce, then it can't be property. But to me, this confuses cause and effect. No doubt property rights have the effect of helping mediate scarcity.
But consider we have a spring of water that is not scarce. If you want it, you can go get some water and drink it. I can get the water. Anyone who wants it can get the water. Does that mean the water is not property? If someone comes over and tries to take my water, instead of getting his own, can he argue, "Hey, it's not real property since it is not scarce"? I would say, no.
By pretty much every aspect of the labor-theory of property, IP is property. Through your own effort, you combine things in the public domain to create something unique. And therefore it is yours to do with what you will. The fact that it is very difficult to protect doesn't really change whether it is property (though I think it should impact how much a community ought to do to protect it. We shouldn't be a police state even if it might nominally improve the protection of any property, tangible or intangible).
As a side issue, I know of at least two world-renowned financial institutions that maintain small departments whose job it is to go through financial business process patents and see which ones it's worth infringing on, and at least two others which, while lacking such departments, nevertheless have a policy of IP infringement for gain. The criteria for infringement are simple. First, obviously, is profitability. The second is whether the owner of the IP has the resources to defend the infringement. If not, they'll happily infringe away.
Yes, patent trolls exist.
Do you think no labor goes into intellectual property? Do you know why we protect IP and trade secrets? It encourages R&D. Especially costly R&D. Or are you now going to argue for government to take that over?
Yeah man, you can’t ‘own’ things. Then your stuff owns you, and that ain’t groovy man. It’s way cooler if we just all share everything, and just like, get high, you know? Yeah, we just all share and open up our minds…..
"Why is it legal to loan out books, either person-to-person or in libraries or in waiting rooms? Why is it legal to sell a copyrighted book, or to read out loud from a book? "
If I buy a book, and give it to a friend, presumably either the author or the publisher (hopefully both) has been remunerated for that already with the initial purchase.
If I buy a book, and then scan it to PDF and send it to a friend, there are now two copies, and neither the author or the publisher have gained from that. If I post the PDF publicly online, there might be a lot more than 2 copies.
And again, the fact that the government is willing or unwilling to enforce property rights would be material if you believe that the source of property rights is government. That is a legitimate view of rights, that puts you in good company with people like Tony and Marx, but it is not a very libertarian view.
Personally, I think everyone deep down recognizes an innate property right to intangible items we create. "Hey that was *my* idea!" is an exclamation nearly as old as "Get off my lawn!" I don't think there is any question that when you use your labor to create something, it is yours.
BUT! Just because you have a claim on an idea does not mean our current regime of IP protection is correct, moral or just. The IP provisions in the Constitution recognize that even though a person might have an idea, there are limits to what society should do to allow that person to dictate its use.
That's fair. I agree with the limits. I think the limits should be more limited - copyright for 7 or 14 years, not 95.
On the other hand, if we have to have the system we have currently, I wish Karl Marx's estate had copyrighted all of his ideas.
So an intellectual property, like Superman, which has been in active use for 84 years without interruption, should enter the public domain? Why?
If you have published it publicly, should it not?
Disney is a great example of the hypocrisy of the current policy.
They appropriated / interpreted / animated a bunch of old European folklore fairy tales and got famous for doing it - Cindarella, Den Lille HavFrue (the little mermaid), Thumbelina, Snow White, you name it.
Then they want to OWN those ideas in perpetuity. Fuck that.
Darth Vader may become public domain in 2073.
You didn’t really answer my question. Why should DC, the owners of Superman, lose their IP?
The company, DC, is not made up of any of the people responsible for the first Superman stories or creation of the essential components of the character. And it isn't just that those people sold the rights to DC or anything, they are long dead. Creators can certainly enjoy the fruits of their labors for a reasonable time while they are alive, but that those ideas can be owned by people not involved in their creation decades after their deaths is not reasonable, to me. (Jerry Siegel and Joel Shuster, the creators of Superman, both died in the '90s at age 81 and 78, respectively.)
I think that the natural life of the original creators, or 50 years after the creation if sold, inherited, or owned by a business, is a reasonable amount of time to have exclusive rights to a creative work. Patents should be more limited, because in most cases, other people could have invented the thing before too long anyway. A more limited monopoly on something that benefits people's lives (especially medical patents) for being "First!" is called for. Basically long enough to be able to reap a reasonable return on investment and risk of R&D.
The protection for IP in the Constitution is for limited time for a good reason.
Because that's what the law that defines what IP is says. As it looks to me, IP is not a natural right, but a legal procedure adopted for practical reasons.
'cause if copyright never expired, we wouldn't have Wicked. For that matter, we wouldn't have Lancelot.
I could wax philosophic about the good of society and creativity and so-on. I could bring up the analogy to patents. I could point out human nature, and how much stuff on things like AO3 and Deviant Art are derivative of copyrighted works, and so-on.
But the end-of-the-line is the same: if we don't let copyrights expire, we don't get published new takes on them.
There is no fundamental difference between buying a book or cd or video game and selling in a garage sale (or just giving it away) vs. sending a digital version to a friend.
The idea that you can own an idea for any appreciable amount of time is just asinine. Once it’s out in the world, it’s out and there’s no closing that Pandora’s box.
At the very least, you'd think libertarians could agree that the longer something is out of the box, the less and less 'limited' the endeavor to confine it to the box becomes.
On the one hand, I think the Harry Potter works are the example of really good things that happen when an individual is left to develop a story and universe for a set period of time. Even today, we see how a movie studio will just milk a fictional universe for all its worth (c.f. Jurassic Park). And that is when they had a brand they paid for to ostensibly protect. Imagine if, upon the runaway success of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, Sony and Disney immediately started pumping out their own versions. Disney made Harry a trans female who was better than Hermione, while Sony brought in Adam Sandler as his goofy friend to replace the Weaslys.
On the other hand, it is possible that without a moat of legal protection to keep others out, studios would have more incentive to promote quality stories. After all, if you want the Harry Potter universe, WB is the only show in town. And in 20 years, they will probably use that monopoly power to serve all sorts of crap on the world, just as Disney is doing with Marvel. But if anyone could tell their story of Black Panther, or Ms Marvel, perhaps Disney would do more to ensure a good story?
On the third, mutant hand, "Culture" wants stories in the public domain precisely so that they can mix and meld. If you look at the history of greek myths, you see what was effectively a few artists whose stories get retold, changed, and evolved over the years. Heracles is really a reboot of Perseus, just with more special effects. Helios is a distinct god of the sun, but later is conflated with Apollo by Euripides. My favorite character, Prometheus, goes from a Loki-like trickster in Hesod's epic poems, to a much more fleshed out character in Aeschylus's greek tragedies.
Overall, I think a very limited monopoly is an acceptable compromise, and it is very interesting that the founders agreed. And I think the worst thing for music and IP Law was Sonny Bono.
Harry Potter fanfic is a thing, and one of the most interesting to me is Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality. Apparently JK Rowling gives fanfic her blessing with the understanding that it not go commercial. I loved reading the books because she is such a good writer; the HPMOR author is not as good, but his Harry Potter world is a lot more rational, so to speak.
Copyright probably did make it easier for JK Rowling to retain oversight of the Hollywood movies which enriched her; but her reputation was the big driver. If Hollywood had tried to make the movies without her oversight, they would have been a hot mess and alienated her fan base, and I think she would have done just as well without copyright protection. And if she had enforced copyright and stomped out the fanfic, she would have been no better off and the world would have been poorer.
"Harry Potter fanfic is a thing, and one of the most interesting to me is Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality. Apparently JK Rowling gives fanfic her blessing with the understanding that it not go commercial."
Right, but that does not cut against it being property. You yourself recognize that JK Rowling has exercised a right to either exclude people from using her property (in cases where people are making money) or allow them (in cases of amateur writing).
"Copyright probably did make it easier for JK Rowling to retain oversight of the Hollywood movies which enriched her; but her reputation was the big driver. "
I don't see how you can say this. Warner Brothers paid JK Rowling hundreds millions of dollars for permission to turn her first book into a movie. They would not need to do that except for copyright. They could have hired all the cast, and directors and created their own script and put out the movie, and JK Rowling would have gotten no compensation. And in fact, they would have done far less if they could have just pumped out the film, because they themselves would not have any ability to protect their works from being pirated.
"If Hollywood had tried to make the movies without her oversight, they would have been a hot mess and alienated her fan base, and I think she would have done just as well without copyright protection"
That is absolutely wrong. We know this because as soon as it became possible to easily pirate music, nobody paid for it- Music Revenues in the first decade of this century were reduced by over 50%, and the revenue per artist even worse. Today, to the extent that revenue loss has been stopped it is because Streaming Services make getting music to people so easy that they are willing to pay a subscription. If those streaming services didn't have to pay licensing, or worry about DRM, there would be even less payments to artists.
The vast, vast majority of people who pay for tickets to Potter movies, read the books, and went to universal studios would give zero shits if the movie was "Unauthorized" by JK Rowling, or a knock off Special Edition hardback, with Illustrations by Banksy. Just as the vast, vast majority of Metallica fans gave zero shits that they were getting their songs from a buddy's hard drive rather than buying it at the store. Do you think anyone getting their photos taken with "Spiderman" or "Black Superman" on Hollywood boulevard cares that they aren't real property owners? Of course not.
I can't speak authoritively on UK copyright law (though I think it's similar in this regard), but that's not JKR's rule, that's just the law. You can write whatever you want and put it up on AO3 as long as it's not a commercial venture.
Copyright only gets involved when you start trying to make money off it.
On your first paragraph marvel started doing that about 8 years ago.
Step 1: take character let's say ms marvel
Step 2: make younger woke version she is a liberl Muslim teen raised by lesbian Muslim parents in a utopia dimension, until the evil unwoke bigots came in
Step 3: replete making more amd more woke
Disney made Harry a trans female who was better than Hermione,
Wait, this is happening NOW. This isn't some crazy-pants hypothetical.
They are not doing that now. Precisely because JK will not allow Disney to fuck with her IP in that way. The idea that Dumbledore was gay was created by her at least as early as the 7th book.
And "Homer" is played by George Clooney.
D'Oh!
Patents use to be only for inventions that made significant impact. Now we see patents for the shap of an icon. The US really need to get back to not granting a patent for literally everything
The problem with much of where we're going (and this goes beyond DRM) is that ironically, we're ending up with a non-ownership society. "You won't own anything, and you'll be happy".
This has played out again and again, especially in the modern digital space, where users realize that when they depended on the "cloud" for their entertainment, music, video games etc" that some time down the road, they realized they never actually owned the thing they bought.
Example: Users download game from digital store for console version x. They "own it". Laughs at friends who fucked around with physical copy. Several years later, user deletes game from console to free up space. Several years after that, digital store for console version X is sunset by controlling company and support/servers are shut down. Some time after that, user gets a hankering to replay old game. Attempts to re-download (which would be free because it's in 'library' of 'owned games', but digital store for old console is dark. User has "lost access" to a piece of property they "owned".
I find this to be a pretty unpersuasive example.
So let's see...You bought a copy of software and then destroyed it. And now you are mad because you can't get the copy you bought replaced by the company you originally bought it from? That's your example that "we don't own things"?
Back when we "owned" IP, and we were idiots and left a cassette out in the sun, or threw away the 30 3.5 Inch disks that held Quest for Glory II, we understood that we had fucked up. So we either did the work necessary to protect and preserve that game, or took our lumps for failing to do so.
I currently have a bunch of movies on Amazon prime. I know I don't "own" them. I have a license with Amazon until such time as they lose their streaming rights- I have actually had cases where I had bought a version of a movie, and Amazon lost the rights to let me stream it. I complained and got a refund.
In fact, this whole thing with software gets my goat for a lot of reasons. There are many people out there who will bitch and moan if Microsoft or Nvidia make driver updates, and it breaks the game that they bought 2 years ago. They expect that the $39.95 they paid Steam is enough to get a future-proofed version of their software with constant updates, and god damn the company that dares to offer DLC in an effort to keep revenue coming to their IP so they can keep their staff paid.
Can't possibly go wrong insulting the customers. Where do think they get the right to tell you how to sell your product to them amiright? Those employees are owed jobs! They'll put up with your blue-haired muscle-woman SJW bullshit, your broken premier and vaporware bullshit, your multiplayer and online-only bullshit, your lootboxing and p2w bullshit, and all the other ways I can't think of that they can knowingly break shit they sold to customers, and like it.
Same goes for Apple, Tesla, and John Deere. Fuck you plebs. You think just because you gave us some money you actually own shit? The I'm willing to bet the cost of a team of high-priced lawyers that the courts will say differently motherfuckers!
That sounds like communism to me.
If voiding intellectual property rights after a given time period is libertarian, then why have any at all? Let's take the Chinese approach, and at most pretend to respect intellectual property while copying and cloning everything in sight. We could even set up a duplicate Reason website and "publish" everything a second time.
We could even set up a duplicate Reason website and "publish" everything a second time.
Would it be corrected for factual accuracy or just a blind reprint of all the childish fairytale thinking and rainbow farts?
As long as the advertisers pay on time, who cares?
That's a good point.
What if I made another website, with similar name and address, how about: http://www.reason.com.com ?
Would Reason.com challenge that? File a cease and desist legal action?
If voiding intellectual property rights after a given time period is libertarian, then why have any at all?
Because IP is a legal fiction that has pretty much always been limited in time.
The notion that certain ideas or sets of words can be owned is really quite contrary to free speech/press. So it has to be balanced. Eternal IP that can be passed on like real property seems like an absurdity to me.
Perfect place to promote my friend’s new anthology:
The Call of Poohthulhu https://a.co/d/blfjb5t
No it isnt.
Here we see white Mike lie again.
He has no friends
"In his house at R'lyeh Corner dead Poohthulhu waits dreaming of honey".
Libertarian view of property rights: if I make something, it is mine, and I get to choose how to benefit from it.
Communist view of property rights: if I make something, it belongs to everybody, and anybody gets to choose how to benefit from it.
Now tell us why intellectual property is different.
That's why I favor life of the creator
What if the creator believes in reincarnation?
If they can prove they have been reincarnated then sure
I think that's a good compromise.
I find it ridiculous that families can continue to make money off of the works of their long dead relatives. Copyright might be justified to incentivize people to make new things and guarantee them some opportunity to profit from them. But that doesn't apply to the next generation.
How about other points of view besides libertarian and communist? Or are false dichotomies your intellectual property?
Go ahead and tell us your own favorite contrast, and how denying any property rights is a good thing.
I give another perspective below. The only reply to it was to note the unusual word in the quote that got the comment started.
Current view of property rights: two people come up with the same or similar ideas at the same time but one is able to get theirs copyrighted first, then Uses government force to fuck the other guy.
Libertarian view of property rights: What goes on in other peoples' heads is none of my business and *certainly* not the government's business. Even actual, verifiable disputes of limited physical property are/were generally a civil, judicial matter, not a federal legislative matter.
Communist view of property rights: Rights, right down to neurons firing and free *thought* are derived from the government. You're not allowed to have a good idea unless the government says it's a good idea... and that they like you more than someone else with the same idea. Picking winners and losers arbitrarily between first to document, first to file, first to practice, and where is our job.
Because copyrights are closer to patents then a plot of land.
That's a pretty fanciful view on how it works with communism.
Intellectual property is different because if someone uses your IP, you haven't been deprived of anything. It hasn't been stolen because you still have it.
And what if someone independently comes up with the same idea as you and puts it into production? In that case you really can't say that they have taken anything from you, neither real property, nor the fruits of your labor. But if you have a patent you can take action.
If you're making a new Winnie the Pooh cartoon, you need to be careful to base your drawings on the original book and not on any of Disney's additions
Since the E.H. Shepard artwork is infinitely superior to the homogenous shit the accountants at Disney signed off on, that is hardly a negative.
Exactly
Basing my drawings off of communist dictators is OK because they're in the public domain, right?
Patent protection sounds great and I had always been a proponent of it. But it is practically worthless to me. (I have at least 5 patents in my name, paid for by the companies I work for). I was talking to a friend of mine last night who was developing a new product. He is contacting a patent lawyer and it is a good, novel idea for a product. Unfortunately, his profits will likely be less than the patent application and the legal fights to keep the chinese out. I have several products that are not patented that I sell. The patent process won't help me. I also realize that the patents that the companies paid for are more vanity/sales marketing items than profit centers. Certainly their are other cases where patents are worthwhile, but for the little guy they don't do much. Keeping industrial/process secrets may be better in some cases.
The price for patenting has soared in recent times, and likewise the idiotic complexity of patent descriptions. When drafting a business process patent a few years back - writing the first draft myself saved my firm some money - I was required to list an exhaustive specification of all the platforms that would be using the process even though the process had nothing to do with any platform. It was like patenting an automobile and having to list in detail all the different kinds of roads and paths it could be driven on.
Holmes and I visited with Winnie the Pooh and his friend Tig - I mean Paddy the Panther.
"Oh, bother," said Pooh, "I had my honey under lock and key but now look" - and he pointed to an open, empty cupboard.
"I can't imagine why his honey wanted to leave," said Paddy, "it was a very comfortable cupboard and we let her out twice a day for exercise and so on."
Holmes tapped at the floor with his foot and pried up one of the planks. The smell was un-bearable.
"Lestrade," said Holmes, "be so kind as to arrest these two for killing a she-bear out of season."
"She-bear"? Is Holmes some kind of biologist?
Don't worry Disney. Even if R's take over the congress they will gladly do your bidding$.
"the ultimate result will be a richer, more vibrant culture."
It's cute that you think that,
Most communal thinkers do.
The idea was to offer authors a brief monopoly to reward them for their creativity, then let creative works be freely available for the public to use.
#LibertariansForTakingPeoplesStuffApparently
Copyrights should be perpetual, and heritable. Why only a "brief reward" for their creativity?
Get woker! We could apply the same limited ownership tenure to everything.
The Earth belongs in usufruct to the living.
Usufruct is a word that combines two aspects of property rights - usus - the use of property, and fructus - the ability to derive profit from property. Abusus is the ability to dispose of the property completely; that is, to use it up with nothing of value remaining, or to sell it or gift it to another. Only with all three does someone have full ownership.
Jefferson was saying that people should only be entitled to what they could make use of during their lifetime and not bind later generations in any way. I don't know how much I agree with everything Jefferson expressed in that letter to Madison (written in 1789 while he was in France), but I do think that it is a useful concept to consider. Land, for instance, should not ever be considered to be fully owned by anyone, in the sense that such an owner could render it completely useless beyond their lifetime. Deriving profit from land, making use of it for other personal benefits, even selling it to others would be a natural property right, but every owner would be obligated to limit their use to ways that would leave the land with at least as much value as when they became the owner. (Extracting minerals from land could be a little different, as obviously, land with gold in the ground wouldn't be likely to ever be as valuable after the gold was extracted. But the process of extracting the minerals should not make the land unusable for other purposes.)
Intellectual property should have the same limitations. It's protections should not exceed the natural lifetime of the creator. The idea that a corporation could maintain copyright or patent protection well beyond the lifetimes of the creators is not reasonable. Few of the people with any ownership stake in Disney were even born when Mickey Mouse was created, let alone involved in his creation. Any laws that grant intellectual property protections that can be sold or inherited should not be extended beyond what could have been a reasonable life expectancy for the original creator. I would say that all IP protections should always expire with the death of the creator or after a maximum of say, 50 years if the creator sold the rights or others inherited them.
Patents for certain types of IP, such as medicines, definitely should be shorter than that, even. Pharmaceutical companies can have their patents for long enough that they can have a return on investment, but Big Pharma is known for playing all kinds of patent games to extend protections and to lobby and contribute to the campaigns of congressmen to make sure that such loopholes aren't closed.
Huh-huh, usufruct.
Good post.
Why is it so libertarian to benefit from someone else's work?
Why not create your own cartoon mouse?
If your own cartoon mouse isn't an adequate substitute for Mickey Mouse, then ask yourself why that is.
Why is it so libertarian to benefit from someone else's work?
The people that own Disney stock now had made no contribution to the creation of Mickey Mouse. Why should they be allowed the exclusive right to benefit from it now?
That is the question being raised here. If IP is "someone else's work", then when the creators are long gone, so should the exclusive rights to that work be gone.
False dichotomy, dude.
I think most libertarians support copyrights. Just shorter ones.
Go back to 28 or 56 years. 95 is ridiculous.
Why is it so libertarian to benefit from someone else's work?
Why is it so unlibertarian to benefit from your own labor without regard to whether someone else
does the same jobhas an idea about your work?If no one was allowed to benefit from others' work without paying them for it, then creative progress will be severely hindered.
Almost nothing significant is accomplished that doesn't depend heavily on the work of others.
Imagine how much fresher Mickey Mouse et al would be if others had been able to produce their own visions
Mickey Mouse: Back from Rehab to Kill Again!
Watching Proud Mouse beat up on trans Mouse might be fresher. But probably not for children, or anyone with moderate tastes.
And here's some more works entering the public domain -
https://web.law.duke.edu/cspd/publicdomainday/2022/
Faust is a German expressionist take on the eponymous play by Goethe. Because Goethe’s play was in the public domain, the filmmakers were free to reimagine it. And that borrowing went in more than one direction. On the right, you can see one of the scenes in Faust, which inspired the strikingly similar “Night on Bald Mountain” scene from Disney’s Fantasia. (With these films, please note that while the original footage is in the public domain, newly added material such as music might still be copyrighted.)
Would be interesting to see a homemade video, posted on YouTube, of someone getting arrested by a cop playing music from Fantasia, getting pulled down. Especially if everyone involved is under the age of (Holy Fuck!) 80 (or 140 if we're going from Mussorgsky's death).
I believe Ryan Reynolds probably would have been safe to do that skit earlier as comedic parody (not satire), which is protected. Although the mouse might have been offended enough to threaten him with the legal team if he felt there was enough cheese in the game for him to try.
After watching great franchises go to Disney + to die I’m pretty certain that being labeled “Not a Disney Product” will be a selling point for Future Pooh.
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I use Winnie the Pooh to poke fun at Xi Jinping.
I took some time during my vacation in Paris to tape pictures of Pooh and Xi on and around the Chinese Embassy at 20 Rue Monsieur, 7th Arr. Of course some CCP stooge came out, took pictures and ripped them down. But I kept going back and doing it again, and then I taped the same pics all over the city.
I also mail similar pics to China embassies and consulates around the world, and to the corporate offices of companies owned by the Chinese government.
Occasionally I mail a pic of the Taiwanese flag too.
I would ask each of you to please join me. If enough of us do it, it can go viral - - just like the Wuhan Virus.