Maximalists Threaten a Federalist Compromise on Abortion
National legislation and extraterritorial application of state laws are inconsistent with the local leeway that the Constitution protects.

When the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade last week, it ostensibly freed states to regulate abortion as they see fit. But that won't be possible if Congress manages to impose one abortion policy on the entire country or if states succeed in applying their own laws beyond their territory.
Both power moves are constitutionally dubious. They threaten to undermine or negate the federalist approach that was supposed to convert a winner-take-all national controversy into state-by-state debates that leave room for a diversity of policies based on a diversity of opinions.
If Democrats had the necessary votes in the Senate, they would codify a right to abortion that goes even further than the limits that Roe imposed on state legislators. You might wonder where Congress gets the authority to dictate abortion policies across the country.
A bill that the House passed last year locates that authority in the power to regulate interstate commerce. "Abortion restrictions substantially affect interstate commerce in numerous ways," it says, citing the interstate purchase of equipment and drugs used to terminate pregnancies.
Republicans can play this game too. The 2003 Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act, for instance, notionally applies to abortions "in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce."
As Independence Institute scholar David Kopel and University of Tennessee law professor Glenn Reynolds noted in 1997, that language is baffling "to any person not familiar with the Commerce Clause sophistries of twentieth century jurisprudence," since "it is not really possible to perform an abortion 'in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce'" unless "a physician is operating a mobile abortion clinic on the Metroliner."
Those sophistries were epitomized by a 2005 decision in which the Supreme Court said the Commerce Clause was broad enough to encompass state-authorized medical marijuana that was never sold and never crossed state lines or even left the grower's property. "If Congress can regulate this under the Commerce Clause," Justice Clarence Thomas warned in his dissent, "then it can regulate virtually anything—and the Federal Government is no longer one of limited and enumerated powers."
Thomas, who last week joined four other justices in overturning Roe, might nevertheless be skeptical of the federal abortion ban that some Republicans would like to pass. When the Supreme Court upheld the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act as consistent with Roe in 2007, Thomas left open the possibility that the law might not be "a permissible exercise of Congress' power under the Commerce Clause."
Thomas' willingness to enforce constitutional limits on the federal government's powers could make him an ally of Democrats who view him as an enemy. But such cross-ideological alliances are not possible as long as Democrats are committed to the absurdly expansive reading of the Commerce Clause on which they rely for much of their agenda. If Congress can force states to allow abortion, it can also prevent them from allowing it.
Justice Brett Kavanaugh, who also voted to renounce Roe, is another unlikely ally of pro-choice Democrats. In his concurring opinion, Kavanaugh said "the constitutional right to interstate travel" would preclude states from standing in the way of women seeking abortions in jurisdictions where they remain legal.
Neither that constraint nor the general rule against extraterritorial application of state laws has deterred legislators from trying to stop abortions in places that allow them. A 2021 Missouri bill, for example, would impose that state's restrictions on all abortions obtained by Missouri residents, no matter where they are performed.
Pro-choice states have responded with legislation that aims to frustrate such threats. Those interstate disputes pose complicated issues that will play out in the courts for years.
The late Justice Antonin Scalia complained that Roe "destroyed the compromises of the past, rendered compromise impossible for the future, and required the entire issue to be resolved uniformly, at the national level." The compromise that Scalia envisioned—letting states go their own way on abortion—is today threatened by maximalists on both sides of the issue.
© Copyright 2022 by Creators Syndicate Inc.
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https://www.zerohedge.com/political/ghislaine-maxwell-be-sentenced-today-more-accusers-get-last-word
Ghislaine Maxwell didn't kill herself!
Yet.
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Ghislaine Maxwell has been placed on suicide watch just days before her sentencing hearing, despite not being suicidal, her attorneys announced.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/ghislaine-maxwell-jeffrey-epstein-suicide-watch
Well, yeah. The suicide watch just means conditions for a suicide are favorable. You don't actually have to seek shelter or leave the area until a suicide warning is issued.
The "suicide watch" involves putting the person in solitary, a move which,
1) Is known to eventually make even sane people become suicidal.
2) Gets rid of any witnesses that might stop them from being murdered.
The true culprit is an ever-expanding government, where people are left with less and less responsibility for their own actions, and it is literally more profitable to push the government to mind other people's business than it is to mind your own business.
The only solution, as always, is less government.
What it will take to get that, I do not know.
^WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As the abortion debate shows, people are more interested in being responsible for other people's choices.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/fbi-raids-home-retired-texas-couple-who-attended-jan-6-capitol-rally
through the gate of their rural home, threw flashbangs, handcuffed them, and trained lasers on them before searching their home for evidence connected to the Jan. 6 breach of the Capitol
I can't imagine what "evidence connected to the Jan 6 riots' would even look like. Aha! An American flag! Undt vat is zis? A Donald Trump bobblehead! ARREST ZEEEMMM!
Ve found zis manifesto deklaring zemselves to no longer subjects of ze government with inalienable rights zat everyone enjoys! Zat zees rights are self-evident even! Ve haf much vork to do!
Lego white house models. Duh.
Fire extinguishers?
It looks like digital devices. Pictures, texts, videos and any other digital data that might have location/time metadata.
Obviously you have to SWAT these people because old folks are known for having kill switches on their mobile phones and digital media... /s
A 2021 Missouri bill, for example, would impose that state's restrictions on all abortions obtained by Missouri residents, no matter where they are performed.
How would you even enforce this?
You can't.
Legally, Missouri can't. Technically, you just follow the Form 4473 template. Remember when the Texas abortion decision would cause you to lose your gun rights? In post-Communist America gun control aborts you!
That would be unconstitutional, but also hilarious.
That would *also* be unconstitutional.
Well you go after anyone with healthcare services for abortion on your state exchange obamacare insurance? Beyond that maybe busybody tipsters and help from the NSA but none of that is seriously going to come about.
Set up a bounty system like Texas did. Create financial incentives for other people/organizations to hunt down, identify, and sue anyone that assists a women in getting an abortion. Purchase available online marketing data on state residents that are associated with searches for abortion providers. Pass a law targeting in-state medical providers that makes them an accessory to an illegal abortion with fines and penalties. (Chill their speech so they won't provide advice.) Make mailing abortion pills a crime and then use the federal system to go after providers. If states really wanted to get nasty, they could make conviction of having an abortion disqualify a woman (and her family) from various social safety-net programs. Make conviction of having an abortion an automatic disqualifier for state-matched education programs like college tuition. This way, if the woman was choosing the abortion in order to complete her education or because her income wasn't sufficient to support an additional child, the cost of the abortion would put her in the same jeopardy regardless.
Just because it's difficult to enforce something doesn't mean you cannot create an ecosystem where any woman seeking an abortion will have a very rational fear of being discovered, outed, and prosecuted--possibly with direct consequences for any existing children.
Sounds harsh, but if you think aborting a 4-week old fetus is murdering a person, it probably comes across as barely sufficient. And, let's face it, it's not like any anti-choice advocate is prioritizing the woman, her needs or her family's needs, first anyway.
Living constitution!!!!! Weeeeeeeeeeeee!
What, too soon?
They are looking to abort the constitution
That's why post-birth abortion is absolutely critical.
Not anymore crazy than pretending a woman is but a "baby" incubator machine for the state....
Some people actually gave their lives in the pursuit of Individual Liberty and Justice for all and they did that because some hypocrites started using 'unicrons' as excuses to Gov-Gun dictate them.
Just no liberty for those babies, right?
Liberate those babies.... Set them FREE!!!! Fetal Ejection...
You lose your argument either way you want to play it...
because.....
If you cannot support ?baby? freedom (i.e. Fetal Ejection)
UR by every logical-sense supporting FORCED reproduction.
"Post-birth abortion" is just the right-wing phrase for "sending your kids to school."
….and that’s a bad miss.
The Dobbs dissent reveals how progressive juriprudence has turned the Framer's Constitutional notion of Federal power upside down in the Left's head.
"Americans searching for evidence that the Supreme Court’s illegitimate half century of interference in American abortion policy has had an incorrigibly corrupting effect on the integrity and coherence of our judicial system need look no further than this line from the dissent in Dobbs, which, in a crowded field of contributions, jumped out at me for the sheer extravagance of its cynicism:
'Most threatening of all, no language in today’s decision stops the Federal Government from prohibiting abortions nationwide, once again from the moment of conception and without exceptions for rape or incest.'
Can the dissenters be serious?"
"Nothing that the Court has examined in the 80 years since Wickard has been sufficient to convince its living constitutionalists that their unchecked conception of the commerce clause is “threatening,” but abortion hits the docket in a way they dislike, and, all of a sudden, they are aflutter with the spirit of 1789.
How grotesque." - Charles Cooke
Yes; It is serious. Never under-estimate the B.S. that Gov-Guns can inflict on the people.
The progressives Justices are projecting. Their jurisprudence assumes anything the Courts (not necessarily the Constitution) do not explicitly say the Federal government is prohibited from doing the Federal Government will do. If progressive ideology were against abortion, they would use this opportunity to ban it.
TRUTH....... Very well stated and I find absolutely correct...
Pro-Life should belong to progressives. Not the party of LIMITED government.
But instead of turning this into a [WE] partisan battle in and of itself I find the use of Gov-Gun threatening serious enough to warrant some principles in the debate.
And nevermind the fact that legislators are already calling for a federal ban on abortion should they retake Congress and the Whitehouse.
They can’t. Federalism works both ways.
I can hear the Democrats (National Socialists - i.e. Nazi's) laughing at you....
This is my question too….
The court just invalidated abortion as a federal right, and said that these issues are to be settled by each state’s legislature.
How is it that a federal law, whether banning or permitting abortion nationwide, could be constitutional when the court just removed it from federal diktat status?
Is it that the court simply removed abortion from judicial diktat, and yet it’s still subject to federal congressional authority?
I’m very much hoping that the court ultimately decides that abortion, like murder, are left to states so we can get minimize abortion as a national topic.
Pretending Legislative = SCOTUS was invented with propaganda...
The U.S. Constitution isn't "federal Gov-Gun legislative diktat on the people"... It is "The People's" Supreme Law over their government.
As such SCOTUS doesn't pack Gov-Gun FORCE on the people; they OPPRESS a tyrannical legislative government by telling the government 'feds & states' what they can legislatively FORCE on the people...
Course I have serious doubts about you not already knowing this.. This is 1st-Grade government class.. Seems the new Pro-Life propaganda is trying to make people believe SCOTUS is but legislative... And if they succeed with their propaganda it will actually be WORSE than leftard indoctrination because there will be NO "people's" law over their government gone tyrannical.
"National legislation and extraterritorial application of state laws are inconsistent with the local leeway that the Constitution protects."
Tell that to the asset forfeiture gang.
The local leeway only applies to the things not specifically given to the federal government, and the interpretation now is that everything was given to the federal government.
This is one issue where you could potentially suck the energy out of the maximalists on both sides. 15 weeks at will. Then abortion with stringent conditions.
Leave both extremes with small numbers and minimal grassroots. Which we can then safely ignore.
Those who think abortion is literal murder, they will not be satisfied. A 15 week abortion is equivalent to infanticide.
Those who think abortion is a fundamental liberty, they will not be satisfied. Banning a 16 week abortion is unacceptable tyranny.
I'll remind, again, that THIS EXACT OFFER was made and pro-abortion side SUED over it.
So stop saying "Why won't pro-lifers offer these moderate offers" when we, in fact, did so and were spat on for doing so.
A week ago, that offer was the fucking "Handmaid's tale come to life"
the fact is that before last week, the "moderate offer" was ALREADY the law of the land. the standard across the nation was "viability," which is 20-25weeks... and almost EVERY state restricted abortions after somewhere between 20 and 25weeks. (the handful that allow it longer are not going to change.) this is where the consensus has been for just about ever, and is roughly consistent with the "quickening" point that was the standard for just about all of human history. the compromise was already reached.
15weeks isn't the compromise, 20weeks already was. 15 weeks is the pro-life version of an assault weapon ban..... get what little ground you can by reducing the number of people you screw over... and once everyone is comfortable with what you have done, push for more. the people who were not happy with 20weeks will never be happy with anything and will never stop pushing for more restrictions.
Viability was not a "compromise", it was a legally incorrect SCOTUS ruling. We never had the political discussion to reach a compromise because of the SCOTUS ruling. By sending this back to the legislatures, where it belongs, people can now have those discussions.
Quickening can happen as early as 16 weeks, which makes 15 weeks a good cutoff. 20-25 weeks is not consistent with even that standard.
But the quickening wasn't even "the standard for just about all of human history". Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism all teach that abortion at any time after conception is sinful; the sin merely becomes graver the later the abortion takes place.
The fact is that Democrats made a campaign promise and had the opportunity to codify Roe v. Wade in 2009; they made a deliberate choice not to.
The fact is that Democrats don't give a f*ck about abortion other than for fundraising and dividing people.
i'll give you that democrats, like most politicians, are more interested in keeping wedge issues alive than fixing anything.\
"Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism all teach that abortion at any time after conception is sinful; the sin merely becomes graver the later the abortion takes place."
this is the case for pretty much anyone.... contrary to the shrieking rhetoric, nobody thinks killing the fetus is just a wonderful thing. nobody just wants to kill babies. the question is and always will be where that "becomes graver" crosses the threshold to warrant interference. for the vast majority of Americans, the answer is "pretty much exactly where it was under Roe."
If that is true, then all 50 states will quickly pass pro-choice legislation. So I don't see what the fuss is about.
But we never had a thorough national discussion on this because Roe took the issue off the table 50 years ago. Furthermore, to most people this is simply not a question they care about. So what people respond to on surveys may not reflect the actual political choices they make.
"If that is true, then all 50 states will quickly pass pro-choice legislation. So I don't see what the fuss is about."
this is where we run into the problems created by the duopoly, and the inherent flaws of a a two party system. less than 20% of the population want abortion banned, but those 20% control the candidates who win primaries and therefore the people elected in many districts. (the same happens with no limit abortion supporters on the other side.) the politicians making the laws do not even remotely represent the will of the people.
"But we never had a thorough national discussion on this because Roe took the issue off the table 50 years ago. Furthermore, to most people this is simply not a question they care about. So what people respond to on surveys may not reflect the actual political choices they make."
for people who had a problem with Roe because of "how" it was done, i grant the point.... after roe happened, the right thing to do would have been to have the conversations and codify the newly protected right into law with whatever lines everyone could form consensus on. this mess could have, and should have, been avoided. nobody really cared or bothered to do anything about it, because not many people expected Roe to be overturned. (at least not until fairly recently....)
No, plenty of people on the left consider killing babies something to be celebrated.
Pro-Life isn't lobbying to make killing babies illegal...
Pro-Life is lobbying to FORCE women to reproduce...
It's amazing what propaganda can do to sheeple minds.
If and when Pro-Life does what they say they are trying to do they won't be such hypocrites. And the Republican party won't look like such idiotic hypocrites either. Then perhaps voters will know which party stands for LIMITED government and maximum Individual Liberty.
the fact that you idiots believe that is part of why society is so screwed right now...... "everyone who disagrees must be evil" is the logic of brain dead morons who can't handle the fact that not everyone sees things the same way you do.
"the fact is that before last week, the "moderate offer" was ALREADY the law of the land."
Except it was not.
"the "quickening" point "
Oooh, "science" in the house.
We offered a compromise. You said no. You lost. Next time, be smarter.
"take it or we go for complete ban" is not a "compromise.....
you sound like a gun grabber calling for "common sense" gun control.
The right to bear arms is a specific right guaranteed by the constitution. Abortion is not.
4th
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated
13th
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States
FORCING Women to Reproduce against their will is a violation of the 4th... And if you ant to stay true to your golden unicorn is a 'person' theory; it's a violation of the 13th.....
SPECIFICALLY.
You Pro-Lifer's are playing the EXACT same manipulation game the gun grabbers are..
but, but, but UR not in a "regulated Militia"....
Rub a Pro-Life Republican and out pops a leftard.
""take it or we go for complete ban" is not a "compromise....."
Very much is.
"We want this. We will give you this instead if you agree to it"
"No, we don't agree. We want far more than you're offering"
"Then we will go for what we want."
Do you know how negotiation works?
"you sound like a gun grabber calling for "common sense" gun control."
"Gun nuts" are offering the compromise by not demanding repeal of the NFA.
The compromise is that the pro-abortion camp starts taking life more seriously.
There are some extremists who will still say each conception is a unique life. As soon as you conceive it, have to live with it. That's a moral argument with no room for compromise and people who believe it have to accept that not everyone will share that belief. It's not that they don't care for individual liberty or like the idea of the feds forcing you to carry to term. There's a broader message behind this moral belief, which is that you need to respect life more.
Abortion should not be used as birth control. We all know the roughly 1m abortions performed each year are not the extremes (rape, incest, non-viable, risk to mother). We would see that data elsewhere if it were true. Abortion is used as the get out of jail free card. That's where the moral outrage and importance of life comes in. People need to become more comfortable with keeping it in your pants. Sex isn't like playing cards or going to the movies. For those at birthing ages, every time you do it, safe or not, there's a risk of pregnancy. Doesn't matter that you used a condom to the extremists. You knew there was a 1% chance of failure and that could mean bringing life into this world.
These people are often religious and view sex differently than most. I don't want their moral standard to be codified in law. However, that doesn't mean I want people making all the wrong choices and then scapegoating the unborn child.
You're never going to run into a rape baby who says "God, I wish I had been aborted. I hate life." We just had one run for Senate in PA. People understandably don't want to broadcast part of their life like that, but every day around you, there are ordinary people who were conceived in rather gruesome ways.
We have to find a compromise between the reality that nobody wants govt forcing women to carry, but nobody wants to deny the awesome experience of life to people who deserve to live and will make the world a better place. If we only look at this debate in terms of abortion, we'll continue to miss the point.
You seriously believe that the majority of Americans think that it is fine to have unprotected sex with casual partners, damn the consequences? Quite apart from babies, the STIs and psychological consequences are bad.
But the status quo is that the opposite moral standard is codified into law, since tax payers and insurers have to foot the bill for both STIs and single motherhood.
The libertarian standard is clear: you can sleep with whoever you want to and you bear the consequences yourself. You can sleep with whoever you want to and others are forced to pick up the tab is not libertarian.
Libertarians no longer have a stance on abortion so they are now irrelevant to any politics of it.
Libertarians never had a single stance on abortion. Neither do Republicans or Democrats. So I don't understand what you are trying to get at.
Not really. The Anschluss Caucus Teatalitarians want women to be chattel, but it would be too shocking to be so direct so soon. By leaving in uninspected entry of violent criminals and terrorists and the new militia executioners planks, the remaining platform is a hedge against another 4 million LP spoiler votes embarrassing Republican success at gaming the electoral college. But if women destroy the GOP, the Austrian will be waiting to move in, as in 1933.
"Abortion should not be used as birth control. We all know the roughly 1m abortions performed each year are not the extremes (rape, incest, non-viable, risk to mother). We would see that data elsewhere if it were true. Abortion is used as the get out of jail free card. "
What you are missing is that most people who have abortions already have children.
Basically, you are presenting abortion as one of two extremes: extreme necessity, and frivolous license. But the vast majority of abortions fall in the middle of the spectrum (one indication of that is that women who abort already have a child). You just had a kid, and thought that since you are lactating, you can't get pregnant. You are on the pill, and you forgot to take it one day. You get pregnant, and husband loses job, or boyfriend freaks out and leaves, etc, etc. You get pregnant for the fourth time, and think your body and soul won't withstand it.
You are asking the pro-choice side to respect life. But maybe you should respect that there are very good reasons why pro-choice people believe that what they believe.
Murder! Because……… reasons.
Is that your argument?
Sounds like a vegan flag..... lol... 🙂
Why don't you speak to your State representative about making it illegal for doctors to intentionally "murder" and just leave the women alone???
I’m in one of the commie states that allows baby murder, and even celebrates it.
You would LOVE it.
You mean, the pro-choice folks that want to provide pre and post natal healthcare to every woman in the country but have been prevented by the "pro-life" side?
"People need to become more comfortable with keeping it in your pants."
There isn't any real risk to the men in this equation. It's the women who are primarily burdened by this so you probably meant "keep your legs closed" instead. But either way, this is a telling admission of yours that you feel sex requires consequences.
Well, they may both have to suck it up.
Either, this will be decided state-by-state, or there will be a federal compromise.
There is no acceptable compromise here outside of the prior one.
Nearly 60% of Americans support the right to an abortion with limits, which is what we had. Now we have zero right. States are forcing women to carry the children of their rapists and relatives. In what world is that the result where the anti-choice crowd has room or desire to compromise? There's zero empathy for the woman there if she has to carry her rapist's baby to term--at her own expense. What compromise would even be sufficient for the folks that wrote, supported, and passed those laws?
Shawn's question is answered in the wrought iron gate at the entrance to Auschwitz. Arbeit Macht Frei means forced labor will set you free. Orwell's translation was even less euphemistic: Freedom is Slavery! An indictment of Ku-Klux Texas framed in terms of the Thirteenth Amendment is the obvious next step. The proposed Atlas Shrugged amendment doesn't specifically address services, but the ERA would be preferable to Unreconstructed girl-bullying--even with trannies in the ladies' room and whatnot.
^ Hank Phillips sock.
"Dude", we didn't have a "compromise", we had a legally incorrect SCOTUS decision. Lying about this repeatedly doesn't change the facts.
Any such laws are holdovers from before Roe. That is one of the problems with Roe and relying on SCOTUS: the law books never get fixed. So stop whining and make your argument to state legislatures.
Perhaps that has something to do with the endless lies, manipulation, and dishonesty of the "pro-choice" crowd, people who have deliberately failed to address this issue legislatively for half a century so that they could use it to spread fear. It's the same crowd who pretends to stand up for gays and lesbians, after voting for DOMA and doing everything to sabotage the progress gays and lesbians have made.
10 states have already banned all abortions with no exceptions even for rape or incest. There was never a moderate compromise in the politics of this.
There clearly was. This whole "Why not offer 15 weeks?" thing WAS the damned compromise offered. Pro lifers WANTED total ban but offered 15 weeks regardless.
Abortion advocates called it horrifying and vicious and sued over it.
So, fuck off with the "pro lifers need to compromise". Abortion advocates need to do so. We're sick of doing it.
No justices agreed with Roberts
JFree.
Is.
Still.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
Because there'd be suits over every single ban of any length. As Alito pointed out.
Roberts is a hack. Always has been.
There are 40 other states and plenty of moderate Republicans, enough to make a national compromise with a filibuster-proof majority.
But Democrats aren't interested in a national compromise. Democrats aren't even interested in passing pro-choice legislation, otherwise they would have passed the Freedom of Choice Act in 2009. Democrats are interested in keeping this issue alive for fundraising.
So, you're right: there never was a moderate compromise in the politics of this, because the so-called pro-choice movement is a sham.
More than ten. Communist Romania had such laws. The populace got the militia to machine-gun dictator Ceausescu and his wife despite his close friendship with Nixon and Gerald Ford. Twenty years after women were no longer forced to reproduce, Romania's crime rate fell. Big data Freakonomics indicates this is a consistent pattern. Republicans need high crime rates to justify a police state like Ceausescu's. The authors were assailed by Army of God fanatics for pointing out the link between high crime rates and forced reproduction.
How about the four states that allow post birth abortions? Where was the compromise there?
lol... Roe v Wade did that.... Oh boy; 5-weeks short....
And guess what dumb*ss party couldn't live with it???
Rub a Pro-Life Republican and out pops a leftard.
If you cannot support ?baby? freedom (i.e. Fetal Ejection)
UR supporting Gov-Gun FORCED reproduction...
Which is exactly that [WE] mob Power Dobbs just granted them.
Has this clown made a cogent point ever?
He comes across as SQRSLY.
Within replied context...
PeteRR June.29.2022 at 8:32 am
This is one issue where you could potentially suck the energy out of the maximalists on both sides. 15 weeks at will. Then abortion with stringent conditions.
And yes; a mis-spell....
Which is exactly what [WE] mob Power-Mad Dobbs ruling just granted them.
Thanks for demonstrating.
No, you have not.
Mute list.
That was the LP proposal in 1972, and Republicans meekly assented. But the Prohibition Party (yes, 18th Amendment) was unsparing in its boiling wrath, and cowed McCarthyite Republicans into the wailing choir. Background was that even communist dictatorships had refused to dehumanize women into breeding dams. A Canadian doctor once persecuted by Christian Nazis was charged for providing abortions, but juries didn't buy it. Now there are NO such laws in Canada. See (https://tinyurl.com/2u4x4az3)
There is also the matter of resources and exponential growth. The Pill and LP changed the second derivative of pop. growth to negative. But with billions already reproducing the actual curve still has positive slope and population has doubled since 1972. Who will generate power for the 200,000 additional babies born yesterday, over and above replacement? Econazis seek to increase the death rate by wrecking power generation. Race-Suicide pronatalists seek to use prohibition and asset forfeiture until economies quit entirely.
There is clearly a constitutional limit on maximalist interpretations of state laws. The 14th defines both US citizenship and state citizenship. Only the feds can define and protect the privilege and immunity of US citizenship.
Don't know what those specifics are re abortion but they will be challenged in dozens of states now. Which means it will be federal courts that adjudiate those even if Alito doesn't want that
JFree, your predictions have proven to be 100% wrong. You are still full of shit.
Well, the specifics matter a great deal. There are some ways in which restricting out of state abortions is unconstitutional, and there are probably some ways that are constitutional.
I suspect the more significant issues are going to be what restrictions on women are going to be deemed unconstitutional
I doubt there are going to be any restrictions on women.
I think it's most likely that states will allow women (and possibly others) sue out of state abortion providers for damages in state court when providing abortions to state residents.
Like slavery or involuntary servitude?
Those might both be deemed constitutional now. Assuming appropriate CYA with due process.
Reason supporting subsidiarity? That's a new one. Usually, you are maximalist libertarians.
The SCOTUS ruling isn't a "compromise", it's simply applying the Constitution.
But I guess we can see why...
We're talking about, say, Oklahoma passing a law holding a California doctor accountable for an abortion performed on an Oklahoma resident. Although this kind of extraterritorial law does exist, I suspect SCOTUS would strike that down.
What I don't understand is in what possible way this "threatens" the Dobbs ruling or anything you might call a "compromise".
And by "maximalist libertarians", I really mean "maximalist left-libertarians", which is perhaps better described as "maximalist minarchist progressives".
Right to Privacy (i.e. PERSONAL LIFE) for everyone EXCEPT pregnant women is not a compromise? And a Correct interpretation of the U.S. Constitution.... REALLY??????
I wonder who would buy such a thing without biases and prejudice..
Try to express what you are actually trying to say, coherently and in English.
Granting a continued Constitutional Individual to Privacy for everyone EXCEPT pregnant women....
And you want to call that a compromise and a correct interpretation of the U.S. Constitution??? REALLY???
etc.....
Every bill in the last 50 years has located it's authority in the commerce clause because SCOTUS allowed Congress and the executive branch to stretch the meaning of the commerce clause beyond the bounds of reason.
Intra state commerce is covered because it might tangentially affect interstate commerce.
Refraining from commerce is covered because it tangentially affects interstate commerce.
The DOJ claims federal criminal jurisdiction can attach under the commerce clause if a tool used to commit the crime once traveled in interstate commerce many years before the crime was committed.
Statistics tell us that 92.7% of the abortion are done within 13 weeks of the start of pregnancy. What then is the necessity of a 15 week bill? The remaining 7.3% are more complicated cases and would be better addressed by doctors and their patients. There doesn't seem to be a compromise here because most of what average people want is happening. Rather than writing a bill to limit abortions to 15 weeks, why not look to positive ways to increase the 92.7 percent and get more of the abortion done earlier when they are, for most, most acceptable.
Not according to proponents of abortions:
Well, and that is what such laws generally say: elective abortion until 15 weeks, and afterwards only in the case of unexpected medical necessity, based on a doctor's determination.
Sounds like we are in agreement. There is no real need for a law as the current situation is in compliance with a 15 week limitation.
No, the two are nothing alike. Right now, a doctor can perform an elective third trimester abortion even if there is no medical necessity and face no legal consequences.
Medical necessity doesn't mean "some doctor thought it was fine", it means that it was necessary according to accepted medical standards and objective criteria. And it means that if the doctor deliberately ignored that standard, he can be held legally accountable.
You are wrong and or lying. In 43 states, third trimester abortions were banned outside an ER where life of the mother was at stake. That was under Roe.
This R/churchy agitprop lie that third trimester abortions happened because women want to fit into a smaller dress are LIES.
My statement is correct: while many states restrict third trimester abortions, some don't, including New Jersey and DC. I believe in NJ there are no conditions, and in DC "psychological well being" is sufficient as a reason.
Therefore, with the repeal of Roe, right now, a doctor can perform an elective third trimester abortion even if there is no medical necessity and face no legal consequences.
In any case, my point was that "The remaining 7.3% are more complicated cases and would be better addressed by doctors and their patients." is simply not the same as actually passing a law that restricts abortions after 15 weeks with specific medical exemptions. Meaning, "addressed by doctors" and "addressed by doctors subject to legal restrictions" are fundamentally different.
Yes you mentioned 2 of the 7. That still leaves 43 which is what I said
Are you perhaps having trouble with the distinction between "A doctor can perform..." and "Each and every doctor can perform..."? I said the former. If you misinterpreted it to mean the latter, that doesn't mean that I'm "wrong or lying".
And yo are right that the 7.3% would be handled differently. With a medical restriction but not a legal restriction, the decision would be made by the woman and her doctor.
With both sorts of restrictions, the decision will be made by a doctor and some legal panel and the woman will be pregnant bystander. Given the politics of the decision, the legal panel will succeed by constipating the decision. Only lawsuits will let the woman override or maybe even participate in the decision
Nonsense. Doctors already have to comply with hundreds of laws and they don't consult a legal panel every time. The doctor documents that the life of the mother is at risk in the medical file and that's the end of it.
Furthermore, I don't understand what you want. SCOTUS has ruled. This is a state matter now. You are welcome to make that argument to state legislatures. I'll even support you: I'm not pro-life, I'm just tired of the dishonest and destructive pro-choice movement and the sense of entitlement that you people have.
"Statistics tell us that 92.7% of the abortion are done within 13 weeks of the start of pregnancy. What then is the necessity of a 15 week bill?"
Better question is...why was the bill the hill for abortion advocates to die on?
If it impacts few abortions...taking the case to SCOTUS seems idiotic.
Wasn't dodging the Bill of RIghts and protective tariffs the Whole Point of several States reverting back to the Articles of Confederation? Quadroon balls, followed by the involuntary fertilization ritual to breed infant octoons... And what of quaint SC legalise, such as: And we do hereby, by virtue of the act of assembly, in such case made and provided, intimate and declare that if the said slave Harry doth not surrender himself, and return home immediately after the publication of these presents, that any person or persons may kill... the said slave by such means as he or they may think fit, without accusation or impeachment of any crime or offence for so doing, and without incurring any penalty or forfeiture thereby. THAT is Qualified Immunity writ large.
Both power moves are constitutionally dubious. So are the current Supreme court Justices. Politics not constitutionally seem to be used in deciding more cases.
"while trying to legislate their moral preferences"
I have a hard time believing Scalia envisioned as much. link?
Why sell off half the USA to treasonous traders? Isn't that what Ukraine is doing for Russia? Perhaps convincing more treasonous traitors that the US Constitution is important might be a better approach.
Ok, so you separate and divide. Texas and California are now independent countries, each with tens of millions of people, which hold opposite views on the issue, and will try to legislate it on each other. So you split up the states by, I guess, counties, which still hold a lot of people with opposing views on the question. You would have to split the country to hundreds of enclaves and deport dissenters from every enclave to get anything like unanimity on the question.
No. Democrats just need to leave. They get nothing, except a one way plane ticket out of America.
And at the end of the Story... Huh, this all could've been avoided if everyone would've just have respect Individual Liberty and Justice for all. Perhaps there should've been a written Supreme Law ?dictating? as such....
My, my; How history has a habit of repeating itself.