A Plague of Policymakers Returns Hunger to the World
Lockdowns, trade disputes, and warfare make the next meal once again a matter of concern.

Governments can't be blamed for all of the world's ills, but they have a remarkable ability to create trouble where there was none before and to exacerbate preexisting problems. The epitome of the state in action may be officials addressing crises of their own making with policies that add to the misery. Keep that in mind as prices soar and politicians do their worst to keep sufficient calories out of reach of those most in need by blocking trade in the already troubled market for food.
"Conflict, COVID, the climate crisis and rising costs have combined in 2022 to create jeopardy for the world's 811 million hungry people," the UN's World Food Program warned earlier this month. The organization went on to name Russia's invasion of Ukraine, climate shocks, "the economic consequences of the COVID-19 pandemic," and rising food prices as culprits.
This was hardly the first warning along these lines. In June 2021, the International Monetary Fund cautioned that "early lockdown measures and supply chain disruptions induced a spike in consumer food prices." Then we saw Thanksgiving headlines in the United States about the cost of serving a holiday meal at a time when the price of food worldwide had risen by almost a third over the previous year. International disruptions in the supply of precursor chemicals prompted Svein Tore Holsether, the CEO and president of fertilizer giant Yara International, to predict a "food crisis."
A combination of always-unpredictable weather, trade disputes, and pandemic lockdowns stretched budgets, boosted costs, and threatened farmers' plans for growing seasons to come. And that was before Russian troops crossed the order of Ukraine, threatening the ability of two major breadbasket countries to satisfy global demand.
"Between them, Ukraine and Russia produce almost a third of the world's wheat and barley and half of its sunflower oil," UN Secretary-General António Guterres noted on May 18. "There is no effective solution to the food crisis without reintegrating Ukraine's food production, as well as the food and fertilizer produced by Russia and Belarus, into world markets — despite the war."
Food prices around the world were up in April by 29.8 percent over the already elevated costs seen in the same month last year, according to the UN's Food and Agricultural Organization. That fueled demonstrations, food riots in Iran, and violent protests that toppled the government in Sri Lanka, which destroyed its own agricultural sector with a ban on modern fertilizers. Understandably, officialdom in many countries panicked. So, in typical political form governments are cutting off trade in what food they have, threatening to make the matter worse.
"India has defended its decision to ban exports of wheat after initially saying it would help ease a global supply crunch created by the war in Ukraine," Voice of America reported earlier this week. "Such restrictions are being seen as a part of 'food protectionism' at a time when world supplies are tightening, and the United Nations has warned about the specter of a global food shortage in coming months."
Malaysia banned the export of chickens, Indonesia restricted (after first outright banning) palm oil exports, and Ghana now blocks the export of rice, maize, and soybeans. The International Food Policy Research Institute (IFPRI) currently counts 19 countries that forbid the export of some foods, and another seven that require government licenses. Historically, these requirements tend to spread, the organization warns, as governments emulate their neighbors to secure domestic supply.
"Export restrictions often had a cascading effect—when one country announced restrictions, others often followed suit, further exacerbating supply problems and creating a panicked atmosphere in global markets as importers sought to secure new suppliers, sending prices even higher," according to IFPRI researchers Joseph Glauber, David Laborde, and Abdullah Mamun.
"Other countries have an incentive to have similar policies for similar reasons, and therefore this augments the problem and pushes food prices further up," Michele Ruta, lead economist at the World Bank for macroeconomics, trade and investment, agreed in a statement to the The Wall Street Journal.
The export bans can also be devastating for local producers who are cut off from international markets. That may mean lower short-term prices for consumers but fewer producers going forward, especially when production costs, including fertilizer and other inputs, are through the roof.
"Exporting helps keep the farms running, because the government's ceiling price at RM8.90 (US$2) keeps chicken prices low, but costs of chicken feed keep increasing month by month," a Malaysian poultry farmer told ChannelNewsAsia this week.
Indonesia's palm oil producers similarly protest restrictions on exports. They warn that because of the controls and a resulting glut of domestic supply, "prices no longer cover costs."
It's difficult to find economists who think that export restrictions on food are a good idea. But politicians often support them anyway because they tend to play well with politically powerful urban constituents who fret over rising prices. The inevitable result of export restrictions on food, though, is higher costs around the world, and often reduced production at home as farmers go out of business or switch to unrestricted crops. That means more poverty, hunger, and suffering going forward.
It's all that much more infuriating when you remember that we previously enjoyed decades of steadily declining poverty and disappearing hunger thanks to innovation, free markets, and open societies. The current chaos can be largely laid at the feet of profoundly stupid policy decisions. Yes, drought, floods, and frosts played a significant role, but nature has never been cooperative, and humans have grown increasingly skilled at producing sufficient calories despite the fickleness of weather and climate. It took lockdowns, trade disputes, ignorant protectionism, and old-fashioned warfare to make the cost and availability of the next meal once again a matter of concern for a growing, rather than shrinking, portion of the world's population.
Long after we learned to alleviate them with freedom and markets, hunger and poverty have returned to our planet as pressing concerns. If we're to return to a path leading to full bellies and prosperity, we'll need to learn how to save ourselves from a plague of policymakers.
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"And that was before Russian troops crossed the order of Ukraine..."
Just where IS the "order of Ukraine" anyway? Is it in the general area where the "order collies" breed of dog was first developed?
"Let's just outlaw high prices, and enslave farmers, truck drivers and other food transporters (and the oil drillers etc. who power them), AND food processors, to provide cheaper goodies for you and me!"
OK, NOW will ya vote for MEEEEE?!?!
No.
OK, NOW will ya vote for MEEEEE?!?!
For the Lord of the Laser Lizards? NFW.
https://www.google.com/search?q=judas+priest+electric+eye+lyrics&oq=judas+priest+electric+eye+lyrics&aqs=chrome..69i57.30600j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
BEWARE!!! ACHTUNG, BABY!!!
"My lasers trace... Everything you do!!!"
Up here in space
I'm looking down on you
My lasers trace
Everything you do
You think you've private lives
Think nothing of the kind
There is no true escape
I'm watching all the time
I'm made of metal
My circuits gleam
I am perpetual
I keep the country clean
I'm elected, electric spy
I'm protected electric eye
Always in focus
You can't feel my stare
I zoom into you
But you don't know I'm there
I take a pride in probing
All your secret moves
My tearless retina takes pictures that can prove
I'm made of metal
My circuits gleam
I am perpetual
I keep the country clean
I'm elected, electric spy
I'm protected electric eye
Electric eye, in the sky
Feel my stare, always there
There's nothing you can do about it
Develop and expose
I feed upon your every thought
And so my power grows
I'm made of metal
My circuits gleam
I am perpetual
I keep the country clean
I'm elected, electric spy
I'm protected electric eye
I'm elected, electric spy
I'm elected
Protected
Detective
Electric eye
You're meter is still whacked. That is enough to get me to vote for your opponent.
Fuck Joe Biden
Trump would have fixed it. He can fix anything.
Isn't it amazing how sarcasmic and Sqrsly always show up at exactly the same time and post exactly the same things even though they're totally 2 different people and sarcasmic definitely hasn't fucked up in a drunken stupor and posted his Sqrsly copypasta from his sarcasmic handle?
Isn't is also amazing how sarcasmic's defense for his unwavering defense exclusively of Democrats is that just because he unwaveringly and exclusively defends Democrats doesn't mean he's a Democrat, but anyone who says Fuck Joe Biden he automatically brands a "Trumpista" or "Trump cultist" even though Trump has been out of office for 2 years and the only person who obsessively brings him up in quite literally every single thread at Reason.com for 12-16 hours per day, 7 days per week, is sarcasmic himself?
Or maybe sarcasmic is just a drunken piece of shit partisan shank and therefore none of those things are actually amazing at all. Who's to say!
Hi Tulpa the Adolf Eichmann!
“Dear Abby” is a personal friend of mine. She gets some VERY strange letters! For my amusement, she forwards some of them to me from time to time. Here is a relevant one:
Dear Abby, Dear Abby,
My life is a mess,
Even Bill Clinton won’t stain my dress,
I whinny seductively for the horses,
They tell me my picnic is short a few courses,
My real name is Mary Stack,
NO ONE wants my hairy crack!
On disability, I live all alone,
Spend desperate nights by the phone,
I found a man named Richard (Dick) Decker,
But he won’t give me his hairy pecker!
Dick Decker’s pecker is reserved for farm beasts,
I am beastly, yes! But my crack’s full of yeasts!
So Dear Abby, that’s just a poetic summary… You can read about the Love of my Life, Richard Decker, here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/10/11/farmers-kept-refusing-let-him-have-sex-with-their-animals-so-he-sought-revenge-authorities-say/#comments-wrapper
Farmers kept refusing to let him have sex with their animals. So he sought revenge, authorities say.
Decker the hairy pecker told me a summary of his story as below:
Decker: “Can I have sex with your horse?”
Farmer: “Lemme go ask the horse.”
Pause…
Farmer: “My horse says ‘neigh’!”
And THAT was straight from the horse’s mouth! I’m not horsin’ around, here, no mare!
So Richard Decker the hairy pecker told me that, apparently never even realizing just HOW DEEPLY it hurt me, that he was all interested in farm beasts, while totally ignoring MEEE!!
So I thought maybe I could at least liven up my lonely-heart social life, by refining my common interests that I share with Richard Decker… I, too, like to have sex with horses!
But Dear Abby, the horses ALL keep on saying “neigh” to my whinnying sexual advances!
Some tell me that my whinnying is too whiny… Abby, I don’t know how to fix it!
Dear Abby, please don’t tell me “get therapy”… I can’t afford it on my disability check!
Now, along with my crack full of yeasts… I am developing anorexia! Some are calling me a “quarter pounder with cheese”, but they are NOT interested at ALL, in eating me!!! They will NOT snack on my crack!
What will I DO, Dear Abby?!?!?
-Desperately Seeking Horses, Men, or ANYTHING, in Fort Worth,
Yours Truly,
R Mac / Mary Stack / Tulpa / Mary’s Period / “.” / Satan
Hi Tulpa the Adolf Eichmann!
If only.
This site could use ten Tulpas, 5 Wartys, a few Sugarfrees and an Agile Cyborg for flair
I do miss Agile Cyborg... (Is he dead? Did they snort his ashes for the residual LSD? If so, why was I left out?)
Isn't amazing how the same asshole with a new account shows up to say the same bullshit several times a week?
Good job sarcasmic! You managed to keep your Sqrsly copypasta on your Sqrsly handle this time! Was Wal Mart's liquor out of stock, or are you stuck sober until your welfare check clears on the 1st?
Sarcasmic is a Reason staff sockpuppet. I don't now for sure who, but it wouldn't surprise me one iota if he's Goth Fonzie Woppo, or even Park Slope Welchie Boy himself.
Fuck Joe Biden
https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/03/05/sri-lanka-organic-farming-crisis/
In Sri Lanka, Organic Farming Went Catastrophically Wrong
A nationwide experiment is abandoned after producing only misery.
Fucking Government Almighty forcing people to worship UTTERLY stupid "organic food"! European IDIOTS told the Government Almighty of Sri Lanka that organic food was the way to go, to INCREASE productivity, which is a TOTAL lie! WHO will protect us from our supposed "protectors", which is Government Almighty!??!
Yes! sarcasmic is right! Central planning and state agriculture is wrong! The proper role of government is forcing people to take experimental drugs against their will and pay for 5 year olds to mutilate their genitals.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/08/11/organic-farming-harmful-damage-environment-inefficient-column/86988504/
Organic food is great business, but a bad investment: Bjorn Lomborg
Despite best intentions, organic farming is harming, not helping, the environment.
Bjorn Lomborg
Oooh! An option from someone on USA Today! Heavy stuff.
I refute what you say, by NOT reading it, and by pointing out that the source is "not of My Sacred Tribe"!
And from 2016. A magical year for so many.
Governments can't be blamed for all of the world's ills....
In a previous era global governments were not joined at the hips. Now they are. They can be blamed for all of the world's ills but Biden (and his handlers) especially must be blamed for the implosion we are witnessing of the USA. I initially found distasteful the "f*** Joe Biden" mantra. Now I say with gusto to Biden, "Chupamela".
I initially found distasteful the "f*** Joe Biden" mantra.
Fuck Joe Biden.
So we're referring to Putin as a "policymaker" now?
Well he has been making Russian policy for decades, hasn't he?
Looks like the war-drummer boy is experiencing some buyer's remorse.
I try my best not to become a tinfoil-hat wearing, SQRLSY-esque, raving lunatic. But these massive governments, NGOs, their Billionaire Benefactors, and Ivy-League, Elitist, minions make it very difficult to resist.
When Schwab in the WEF is writing books about "Stakeholder Capitalism" while nodding sagely at presentations on The Great Reset, he and his cronies get put at the leadership of all these stakeholder boards. Farms are being bought up by Bill Gates at historic rates, while congress is pushing environmental conservation laws that give farm-owners big incentives to leave lands fallow. Silicon valley startups are pushing genetically engineered fake meats while Science Writers are constantly pushing papers about the environmental evils of ranching. Government pushes anti-liberty vaccine mandates on a populace that by-and-large doesn't need them, while Pfizer (maker of those vaccines) brags about microchip laden compliance pills. And small businesses are forcibly locked down by politicians convinced by models of "Flattening the curve" that happened to be popularized by silicon valley websites- generally benefitting silicon valley social media, and e-commerce plays.
I wonder if Ronald Bailey has any curiosity about why, all of a sudden, he receives all these "Anti Meat" scientific studies? Could it be the same reason we received all these articles about the evils of TikTok mere months after Facebook hired a PR firm to attack them?
I don't believe that there is a massive, coordinated global conspiracy. I believe there are a bunch of rich, elite oligarchs who are using convenient Holy Symbols like Environment and Social Justice to make themselves rich. If they really were interested in a NWO, the worst people to run it are the priestly castes of Environmentalists, SJWs and politicians they tend to use as their source of power. No, they don't want to rule the world. They want to preserve their ultra-rich, crony lifestyles. And if that brings catastrophic inflation, famine, and inefficient mega-zombie-corporations, well that's a price they are willing to let you and I pay.
Let's all be "scientific"-minded and data-driven like Overt, the fartilized egg smell worshipper! Let's all worship the fartilized egg smells so that “Lying Lothario” (in full, is AKA “Leisure Suit Larry the Lying Lothario in the Land of the Lounge Lizards”) can knock up entire harems of lied-to babes, and then desert them, knowing full well that they will be FORCED to give birth! Thus, we will no longer be "men" as we know it! Are we not men? We are devolving! We will trample underfoot, the already-born young, in our harem-gathering mating-fights over the lied-to babes, just as elephant seals trample their already-born young under-fin, in THEIR mating fights! THIS is the vision of the human future for US, by Overt the Harem-of-lied-to-babes-fighting Pervert! WORSHIP those fartilized egg smells some MORE, and THIS will ??? mystically, magically somehow combat our species perversion into forgetting about how to be good fathers, while we fight over harem-gathering, and take away women's (abortion) "veto powers" against Lying Lothario!
Actually DATA-DRIVEN folks will examine the RESULTS OF OUR POLICIES IN THE REAL WORLD! See "The Sociobiology of Abortion" subsection of http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Jesus_Validated/ ...
"Let's all be "scientific"-minded and data-driven like Overt"
I love this statement from SQRLSY. It shows that he *never* reads the statements of people he decides to rant and rave against. If he did, he would know that one of the main themes of my posts is that moral questions cannot be answered by "data".
But not SQRLSY. No, SQRLSY thinks that moral questions are questions of data. If we can just prove that those [insert deplorable of choice here] don't contribute enough or lead to sub-optimal outcomes, their rights are forfeit. SQRLSY *loves* making the ends justify the means. Crack those eggs, throw them in the pan, and enjoy your fluffy omelette in the end. Because the Data told him so.
Read the whole book (as I have) as mentioned below, and THEN lecture me about how "morals can't be derived in a data-driven manner"!
A whole book (And I recommend it highly) has been written by Sam Harris, “The Moral Landscape How Science Can Determine Human Values”.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moral_Landscape#:~:text=The%20Moral%20Landscape%3A%20How%20Science,morality%2C%20facts%2C%20and%20science. Now HERE are firm grounds on which to base discussions! I must add, I am NOT opposed to religion in general… Religion is of GREAT value, so long as the leaders and practitioners act out of humility and BENEVOLENCE (aka “Love”), and NOT out of lust for political power! “Beware of wolves in sheep’s clothing”, said a Fart Smeller, I mean a very Smart Feller, WAY back when! Also, be data-driven… That one and the same Smart Feller also said that “The truth will set you free!”
Overt flunks the "benevolence and humility" tests here, as well as the "lusts after political power" test!
QUESTIONS THAT THE FANATICS WON’T EVER ANSWER: What do YOU think that the punishment should be for deliberately killing a fertilized human egg cell? Ditto the punishments for likewise killing a fertilized egg of an ape... A monkey... A rat... An insect... If your Righteous Punishments From on High are DIFFERENT in these cases, then WHY? WHERE do the differences come from? And what gives YOU (or the 51% of the voters) the right to punish the rest of us?
Never, ever, have I gotten any serious answers, when I pose these questions, about what the PUNISHMENTS should be! (Could it be that the fanatics don’t want us to focus on THEIR obsession, which is their smug and self-righteous “punishment boners”?)
"A whole book (And I recommend it highly) has been written by Sam Harris, "
Well since Sam Harris said so. I guess we should just get cracking those eggs, right SQRLSY?
"Overt flunks the "benevolence and humility" tests here, as well as the "lusts after political power" test!"
If there were a test to flunk, perhaps. But you wouldn't know. Because you don't read what I write. It's why you are here bringing up silly abortion nonsense on an unrelated post. It's why you embarrassingly accuse me of being "data driven" and then herp derp try to change the subject.
Feel free to read my previous post again. I wasn't criticizing your positions (silly as they are)- I was pointing out how raving lunatic you seem with capitals and an inability to hold to one subject. It is lunacy.
And STILL I see no answers! Is your giant "Punishment Boner" getting in your way, as you try to read the questions on-screen there?
QUESTIONS THAT THE FANATICS WON’T EVER ANSWER: What do YOU think that the punishment should be for deliberately killing a fertilized human egg cell? Ditto the punishments for likewise killing a fertilized egg of an ape... A monkey... A rat... An insect... If your Righteous Punishments From on High are DIFFERENT in these cases, then WHY? WHERE do the differences come from? And what gives YOU (or the 51% of the voters) the right to punish the rest of us?
Never, ever, have I gotten any serious answers, when I pose these questions, about what the PUNISHMENTS should be! (Could it be that the fanatics don’t want us to focus on THEIR obsession, which is their smug and self-righteous “punishment boners”?)
"And STILL I see no answers!"
It is richly ironic of you to feign non-response when your stark ravings are so tangential to anything anyone is writing about as to be in another solar system.
"Is your giant "Punishment Boner" getting in your way"
And here, my friends is item of evidence #250 Gajillion that SQRLSY never actually reads the posts of people he maligns. I have responded to your 'what about the punishments!!??!' argument multiple times.
I'll give you "serious answers" when you show me the basic courtesy of reading them. Reason has an archive of all the articles where we have discussed this. You are welcome to go review them. You will find that many people have responded to what is, honestly, one of the most banal and childish "gotchas" that sophomoric sophists like yourself have come up with.
And I'll add that demanding that people constantly repost what you decline to read doesn't just make you appear mentally challenged, it makes you look like a SELFISH PRICK.
Nah. I decline to decipher another one of your tired, copy-pasta, vulgarity-as-a-substitute-for-cleverness ravings until you show even the most basic interest in actual conversation. It's too much work, and you show no interest in putting in the same. Your schtick is boring- I've seen this "Man ranting that the end is nigh" trope for too many years from you. And you have ensured that it is a thankless, unrewarding slog through mental incapacity.
I try to engage with you periodically, and I always regret it for exactly this reason. Now you are merely my warning to others, and myself:
"Just don't go SQRLSY on me, and everything else will be fine."
In other words, fanatics won't answer me... Because they HAVE no answers! (None that won't embarrass the crap out of them, that is.)
Wolves in sheep's clothing!
“We must PUNISH-PUNISH-PUNISH, and then KILL some abortion doctors, to SAVE the fartilized egg smells!!!”
AFTER one presents the facts (and the well-reasoned and ethical “right thing to do”), and the stupid and evil still resist… Because they are stupid and evil… Then one has to shrug, and say to oneself, “all that is left to me now, sad to say, is to warn others that we are dealing, here, with stupid and evil people”. John the Baptist AND Jesus had to deal with the same thing. Or do you think that THEY were stupid and evil, stupid and evil one?
https://biblehub.com/matthew/23-33.htm
You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks.
"In other words, fanatics won't answer me... Because they HAVE no answers! (None that won't embarrass the crap out of them, that is.)"
Again, SQRLSY demonstrates that he does not read who he replies to. Man, we can do this all day, SQRLSY. I'll do you the favor of repeating myself:
"I'll give you "serious answers" when you show me the basic courtesy of reading them. Reason has an archive of all the articles where we have discussed this. You are welcome to go review them."
I generally want to know: Are you truly this selfish or are you just crazy? We have discussed Abortion and "Muh Punishments!!" on other threads. And now you show up to a totally different thread and complain that I'm not engaging in yet another rehash of your argument?
Please. The "fanatics" *have* answered you. It takes an incredible amount of self-centered delusion to expect me to re-write what you have declined to read several times before. And to do it on a thread that isn't even talking about abortion.
"Or do you think that THEY were stupid and evil, stupid and evil one?"
You seem to think I see the Disciples as some sort of moral authority. If you ever paid attention to what I write, you would not hold that misconception.
Until you can demonstrate a capacity and willingness to read what I write, you will get nothing out of our conversations.
"Please. The "fanatics" *have* answered you."
They have NEVER even ATTEMPTED to answer the questions that I have posted above! Liar, liar, pants on fire!
SQRLSY: that you decline to read their responses is not the same as not attempting.
Step outside your addled mind and look at this conversation. You changed the subject to abortion. When I suggested you could find my answers in previous threads, you didn't even TRY to look for them and declared victory.
The only person you are fooling is yourself. And you know this. Look at that pathetic response. "Nuh Uh! Liar!" That's it.
That is your pathetic narcissism on display. You responded in 8 minutes without bothering to even TEST to see if I had responded in earlier threads. That is how sure you are that you are right. And it demonstrates just how petulant you are.
YOU brought up the topic of being ... "I try my best not to become a tinfoil-hat wearing, SQRLSY-esque, raving lunatic." ... A raving lunatic! And then I simply chose abortion as a topic where it is clearly YOU that is exactly that, with your worshit of fartilized HUMAN egg smells, but ONLY the human ones! Is what I assume, at least, since you won't answer my questions, and never have. You refer me to the ENTIRE body of your bullshit, and your fellow fanatics' bullshit, and say that I should be able to somehow glean the roots of your fanaticism from there! Well... I say... God told me, through the Holy Scriptures, that fartilized HUMAN egg smells are NOT allocated Special Holy Rights! And now go READ the ENTIRE BODIES of ALL of these Holy Scriptures, and you can see what I mean! Unlike you the skin-flint of supposed "knowledge", I'll actually be generous and give you a "cheat sheet"!
“The Skeptic's Annotated Bible/Qu'ran/Book of Mormon--What The Bible Says About Abortion” https://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/abortion.html ... Plus (bonus material) https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2022-05-20/religious-backers-of-abortion-rights-say-gods-on-their-side
"Silicon valley startups are pushing genetically engineered fake meats while Science Writers are constantly pushing papers about the environmental evils of ranching. Government pushes anti-liberty vaccine mandates on a populace that by-and-large doesn't need them, while Pfizer (maker of those vaccines) brags about microchip laden compliance pills. And small businesses are forcibly locked down by politicians convinced by models of "Flattening the curve" that happened to be popularized by silicon valley websites- generally benefitting silicon valley social media, and e-commerce plays. "
That's to be expected in a society that seeks to solve its problems with economic growth and application of new technologies.
"I wonder if Ronald Bailey has any curiosity about why, all of a sudden, he receives all these "Anti Meat" scientific studies? "
A vegan diet is an obvious way for the planet to reduce carbon footprint. There are billions of domesticated farm animals on the planet all requiring constant energy inputs to sustain their lives.
"That's to be expected in a society that seeks to solve its problems with economic growth and application of new technologies."
You read that right from mtrueman. Locking down an entire country, causing children to lose one or two years of education, pushing small businesses out of business, driving up suicides, and unleashing rampant inflation is, "solving problems with economic growth and application of new technologies."
Quarantine has long been a way for humans to counter communicable diseases. In simpler, Biblical times, leper colonies were an example. In more complex, integrated societies like ours, quarantine is still used, only more invasive and intense.
I know what the difference is between Quarantine of likely infected and the lockdown of an entire country. Clearly you do not, and it is making you look a little foolish, to be honest.
"the difference is between Quarantine of likely infected and the lockdown of an entire country"
You know it's more invasive, more intense. What else do you know I haven't told you already in the comment you are responding to?
Quarantines are the restriction of people likely to be carrying a disease. More invasive would be "locking you up instead of voluntary house arrest". More intense would be "Tazering you instead of admonishing you".
Locking up people who have no likelihood of being infected is not quarantine. Just jackbooted thuggery.
But please tell me more about how "intense quarantining" is solving problems through economic growth. How exactly is "invasive quarantining" an application of new technologies.
"More invasive would be "locking you up instead of voluntary house arrest". More intense would be "Tazering you instead of admonishing you".
What about welding doors shut? Not intense enough for you? Not invasive?
"But please tell me more about how "intense quarantining" is solving problems through economic growth. How exactly is "invasive quarantining" an application of new technologies."
Communicable diseases traditionally called for quarantine. For the past couple of centuries, there is another way to handle them. Vaccinations. This is where the new technology comes in. Before the vaccine is developed, the only thing to do is quarantine. Once the vaccine is here, the money starts flowing, quarantines are eased, and replaced by intense and invasive pressure to vaccinate. Next question?
mtrueman, get with the times as they are TODAY! Get hippagroovalistic, fer Chrissakes, ye out-of-date geezer has-been, ye! Today, the UNvaccinated are clean, and the vaccinated have COOTIES!!! Didn't ya KNOW?!?!
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/10/centner-academy-vaccine-rules-leila-centner-david-centner
Florida School Run by Idiots Says Vaccinated Students Must Stay Home for 30 Days After Each Shot
This is the same school where a teacher told students not to hug their vaccinated parents for more than five seconds.
(End subtitles and excerpts).
See? We are ALL data-driven by now! My data says the OTHER (evil) tribe believes in vaccines, so MY tribe must BAN and SHUN the BAD tribe (and their cooties) as much as possible!
The unvaccinated are now CLEAN and the vaccinated are UNCLEAN! Civic-minded BAD! Afraid of micro-chips in vaccines GOOD! Black is white, and good is evil!
"Communicable diseases traditionally called for quarantine. For the past couple of centuries, there is another way to handle them. Vaccinations. This is where the new technology comes in. Before the vaccine is developed, the only thing to do is quarantine. Once the vaccine is here, the money starts flowing, quarantines are eased, and replaced by intense and invasive pressure to vaccinate. Next question?"
Lol. You really have a dizzying intellect. But please.
Everyone reading this thread knows that you are grasping at straws.
*You* not me, said that national lockdowns are some example of "society that seeks to solve its problems with economic growth and application of new technologies." You never said anything about Vaccination. You tried to pass off lockdowns as "Intense" and "invasive" "economic growth and application of new technologies." And knowing that was the silliest of moves, you now want to pivot to vaccinations. You aren't fooling anyone.
"*You* not me, said that national lockdowns are some example of "society that seeks to solve its problems with economic growth and application of new technologies."
Fake meats, vaccines, embedded microchips were all mentioned by you in the original comment of yours I responded to. They are all examples of solving problems with technology and economic activity. Lock downs too have a high tech aspect, as you must know. Contact tracing, telecommuting, etc.
"And knowing that was the silliest of moves, you now want to pivot to vaccinations."
Absent vaccinations, quarantines are the tried and true method to deal with communicable diseases. You were the one who raised vaccines in the original comment I responded to:
"Silicon valley startups are pushing genetically engineered fake meats while Science Writers are constantly pushing papers about the environmental evils of ranching. Government pushes anti-liberty vaccine mandates on a populace that by-and-large doesn't need them, while Pfizer (maker of those vaccines) brags about microchip laden compliance pills. "
Why is it silly for me to mention vaccines, but not you? And what is with you and vaccines anyway?
Fake meats, vaccines, embedded microchips were all mentioned by you in the original comment of yours I responded to. They are all examples of solving problems with technology and economic activity. Lock downs too have a high tech aspect, as you must know. Contact tracing, telecommuting, etc.
The waitress who lost her job is interested in this "telecommuting" thing of which you speak.
I am responding to Overt's comment. Did he mention that waitress who lost her job? No. Take it up with him.
If only there were a communicable disease going around with a kill-rate that might have justified such a lockdown. Here's hoping for Monkeypox.
A vegan diet is an obvious way for the planet to reduce carbon footprint.
It's not an obvious way, it's a perceived way. By people that choose that lifestyle. What is the end result when you take an omnivore and turn it vegetarian? Where do the domesticated animals go? Are they put to death for no longer being useful? Allowed to go free to graze on the land and plants we are now that much more dependent on? Attacked by predators in the wild? What happens to the the predator population when they find a new, docile food source? Who comes next after the cows? See how a 'simple' plan to alter a 'carbon footprint' can go quickly in many other directions.
There are billions of domesticated farm animals on the planet all requiring constant energy inputs to sustain their lives.
Also billions of people with the same need. Omnivores, mostly.
"What is the end result when you take an omnivore and turn it vegetarian?"
That's easy. A lot of whinging about their lifestyle.
"Also billions of people with the same need. Omnivores, mostly."
There are about 20 billion animals eaten each year by humans. Each animal requires energy to live its life. Energy which is overwhelmingly derived from burning fossil fuels. If we are serious about reducing our carbon footprint, a vegan diet is the obvious way to go.
That's easy. A lot of whinging about their lifestyle.
I assume you meant whining. So, 'I insult all wrong-think is my answer' is what you are going with. Seems about right.
Energy which is overwhelmingly derived from burning fossil fuels.
Huh? Are the cows and chickens joy riding the farming equipment when we are sleeping. What is this energy you are talking about? Farms, electricity for lights, manufacturing power? Do we save an 'overwhelming' amount of that energy by farming the crops to replace the calories and nutrients of the animals that provide for us as omnivores?
And again, what becomes of those 20 billion animals? Do they just run away never to be heard from again? Stop calving, laying eggs, having piglets? Curious what your thoughts are on the next steps if the world submits to your conversion.
Not that I don't know what that is already.
"What is this energy you are talking about? "
It's nothing you need to concern yourself with. You don't take the matter of reducing our carbon footprint seriously, so what's the point? You think it's a Chinese hoax or whatever the TV talking heads last told you. Like it or not, authoritarian regimes like China and India are poised to take leadership on the issue, as America has too much invested in fossil fuels to change her ways. China and India are both enormous, have a long history of survival, and share a culture where veganism is seen as compassionate rather than an inconvenient imposition on lifestyle.
"And again, what becomes of those 20 billion animals?"
Humans eat them. They are digested and our bodies extract their nutritive properties. They are excreted and their souls ascend to animal heaven.
Not that I don't know what that is already.
Yup, about what I thought your response would be. It's interesting you highlight China, whose clean energy and pollution policy resembles that of America in the early 70's. And India relies on a vegetarian diet because it has a large population. It only reveres the cow. Chickens, goats, lamb still on the menu.
China and India are both enormous, have a long history of survival, and share a culture where veganism is seen as compassionate rather than an inconvenient imposition on lifestyle - Sure, that's the ticket.
Humans eat them. They are digested and our bodies extract their nutritive properties. They are excreted and their souls ascend to animal heaven. - In Vegan Utopia?
You're right about one thing, I don't take the idea of reducing 'our' carbon footprint seriously. And it has nothing to do with any talking points. I follow behavior. Actions speak louder than words and when you've been on the planet for a number of years and see the same patterns repeat themselves with newer generations it gets harder to swallow the nonsense.
Mostly though, I attend to my own behavior. I buy the kind of food I like to eat and do my best to plan my weekly menu so I am not wasting or throwing food away. I eat very little processed food. I cook my own meals. I grow some food. I compost. I reuse containers and try to limit the plastic I use in the world. I drive when I need to. I recycle, even knowing that may be a fool's pursuit. I keep my yard and neighborhood clean. I pick up after my dogs, I am nice to my fellow man and help when I can.
I don't concern myself with what I think everyone else in the world should be doing for my views. And don't want them telling me how I should behave according to theirs.
I would love to hear how you, in your everyday life, are keeping your 'carbon footprint' in check. What is your personal measurement for your carbon? How do you track it? What do you sacrifice? Have you moved to a part of the country where fossil fuels are not required to survive? Are you on the grid or off it completely? Or are you just another loudmouth, SUV driving my kids to school everyday, plastic using, gas guzzling, fish eating, vegan climate crisis crybaby who wants everyone to play the way they want to play and have someone else solve the problem, preferably big authoritarian brother.
"You're right about one thing, I don't take the idea of reducing 'our' carbon footprint seriously. "
It's obvious. That's why you're not going to get a seat at the table, and whining about your precious lifestyle won't change that.
"Mostly though, I attend to my own behavior. I buy the kind of food I like to eat and do my best to plan my weekly menu so I am not wasting or throwing food away. I eat very little processed food. I cook my own meals. I grow some food. I compost. I reuse containers and try to limit the plastic I use in the world. I drive when I need to. I recycle, even knowing that may be a fool's pursuit. I keep my yard and neighborhood clean. I pick up after my dogs, I am nice to my fellow man and help when I can. "
All laudable practices. But it's about energy, specifically that derived from burning fossil fuels. If the inhabitants of the planet are to reduce that, the easiest way do so is to eliminate animal products from our diets. Much easier than, for example, refraining from heating our homes in the winter, which would really affect your lifestyle and could be the death of you.
"I don't concern myself with what I think everyone else in the world should be doing for my views. "
Because you don't take your views seriously. You say climate change is a Chinese hoax, but you don't really believe it. It's just a pose.
"I would love to hear how you, in your everyday life, are keeping your 'carbon footprint' in check."
Again it doesn't matter. Look to China and India for leadership on the issue. Their governments are authoritarian and illiberal, but they aren't wedded to the past. They are also, unlike those of the West, terrified of their populace. As George Orwell wrote, "if there is hope, it lies in the proles."
Because you don't take your views seriously. You say climate change is a Chinese hoax, but you don't really believe it. It's just a pose.
Uh, I never mentioned the Chinese and climate change together. You did. You seem to have inhabited a place in my thinking that even I am not privy to.
I take my views seriously. I just don't take your views seriously. You want to look to China and India for leadership? Have at it. Your answer is to simply turn the planet into Vegans, I say there are some very real unintended consequences that go along with that, but you are content to leave that in the hands of your leaders.
You don't have a grid for replacing fossil fuels. You have an abstract plan with very little compassion for how unseating huge swaths of our world with windmills and sun panels will somehow have no inherent negative effect on the creatures that inhabit those planes.
What I do notice is you sidestep a lot of questions with rhetoric. And provide no real insight into what you, personally, are sacrificing or changing for this Utopian world you envision. Are you Vegan alone? Do you drive a EV? Do you bike everywhere? Or do you navel gaze with utopian drivel and wait for your betters to tell you what the next step will be?
"You seem to have inhabited a place in my thinking that even I am not privy to."
My apologies if you've passed the Chinese hoax stage. What stage are you on now? It's all just a lie perpetrated by climatologists so they can grow rich?
"Your answer is to simply turn the planet into Vegans"
If you're serious about reducing carbon foot print, the answer is to reduce or eliminate even the burning of fossil fuels. Veganism is a simple and significant step in that direction, at least for the bulk of the world's population.
"You have an abstract plan "
It's not my plan that should be of interest. Look to India and China. They have the world's most active and ambitious nuclear power program, plans to link the continent with an HVDC grid, the biggest share of electric vehicles, not just luxury models, either. I could go on, but it seems clear to me, that this is where leadership on the issue is coming from. Looking to me or anyone else in the West is probably not going to satisfy you.
My apologies if you've passed the Chinese hoax stage. What stage are you on now? It's all just a lie perpetrated by climatologists so they can grow rich
I'm not in or of a stage. Never have been. Climatologists know where their bread is buttered. Statisticians manipulate stats and the media interprets the information given to them in the most cataclysmic way possible. If the design is to 'Save the Planet'. What Hubris. If the design is to create a new industry that benefits certain individuals and the way to create it is to create a crisis to be resolved, then as I said earlier, this is a familiar flick to me.
The reality is you're right. I don't care enough to join and will probably not be on the planet long enough so it matters. Your Utopia of electric cars and fossil fuel free world will have its own challenges yet to be defined.
Looking to me or anyone else in the West is probably not going to satisfy you.
I don't need to be satisfied. I already am. Enjoy your authoritarian march to Utopia. The next 30 odd years should be a gas!
No, they don't want to rule the world
Yes, they do. That's why WEF apparatchiks refer to THEMSELVES as "elites" and worry endlessly that due to all these Trumpy, populist noises from the hoi polloi, they may not be able to "lead and design and do generally wonderful things to us".
They absolutely want to rule the world.
...they have a remarkable ability to create trouble where there was none before and to exacerbate preexisting problems.
It has become painfully obvious, if it wasn't already, that there are no good intentions behind any of this. Their policies are designed to line their own pockets, line the pockets of favored interests, and/or increase personal power (with the aim of continuing the first two).
The republic was designed from the get go to incentivize and reward people who line their own pockets. Greed is good, said the Michael Douglas character in the Wall Street movie.
mtrueman thinks that Gecko was talking about politicians and their cronies. smh. Can't make this shit up.
They should have never put computers in public libraries for the hobos to use.
They should NEVER have allowed the inherent disrespect to human life, which is involved in the MURDER of human fartilized egg smells! Had it NOT been for that, there would be no invasion of Ukraine, global warming, halitosis, hurricanes, or sun spots!
What library do you attend, SQRLSY?
https://www.bl.uk/learning/timeline/item106263.html#:~:text=Marx%20was%20exiled%20to%20London,most%20celebrated%20book%20Das%20Kapital.
In a past lifetime, Karl Marx and I studied at the British Library (built / donated by the "evil capitalists") together, so that we could... Bite the hands that fed us!!! Now THERE is gratitude, I'm a tellin' ya!
Are you sure it wasn't Harpo, Zeppo and Chico Marx you studied with?
Well, possibly! I do 'fess to studying with Cheech and Chong (PLUS my bong, AND my schlong!)!!
But it is wrong to put your Schlong in your Bong. The studies of Cheech and Chong.
Were you also a disciple of Cherboneck?
https://songsear.ch/song/Cheech-Chong/Cheborneck/3188979 ... And now FINALLY I am more edumacated about Cheech & Chong-Dong-Songs!!!
You should listen to more Blind Melon Chitlin'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZclLDlcXO0&list=RDSZclLDlcXO0&start_radio=1&rv=SZclLDlcXO0&t=0
Cherboneck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYSBoeTDSoc&list=RDCYSBoeTDSoc&start_radio=1&rv=CYSBoeTDSoc&t=0
"mtrueman thinks that Gecko was talking about politicians and their cronies"
Gecko (thanks for the reminder) was talking about Greed. 'Greed is good,' he intoned sanctimoniously.
Greed is good and bad, as are the overwhelmingly vast majority of things!
Good: "I am greedy for more LOVE (and happiness) to be had on this planet, and beyond!"
Bad: "I am greedy for more money, power, status, fame, glory, and sex, for MEEE most of all, with a wee tad left over for the rest of My Sacred Tribe, and NONE for you and your BAD tribe!"
Trying to explain complexity and nuance to the troglodytes is often a waste of effort, sad to say...
The intelligent, well-informed, and benevolent members of tribes have ALWAYS been resented by those who are made to look relatively worse (often FAR worse), as compared to the advanced ones. Especially when the advanced ones denigrate tribalism. The advanced ones DARE to openly mock “MY Tribe’s lies leading to violence against your tribe GOOD! Your tribe’s lies leading to violence against MY Tribe BAD! VERY bad!” And then that’s when the Jesus-killers, Mahatma Gandhi-killers, Martin Luther King Jr.-killers, etc., unsheath their long knives!
“Do-gooder derogation” (look it up) is a socio-biologically programmed instinct. SOME of us are ethically advanced enough to overcome it, using benevolence and free will! For details, see http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Do_Gooders_Bad/ and http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Jesus_Validated/ .
Compassion is the basis of morality. Arthur Schopenhauer. Not reason, not religion, not law.
Sounds good to me! Arthur Schopenhauer was mentioned in a book I got done reading a few weeks ago... By Sam Harris, “The Moral Landscape How Science Can Determine Human Values”.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moral_Landscape#:~:text=The%20Moral%20Landscape%3A%20How%20Science,morality%2C%20facts%2C%20and%20science.
IMHO, "data driven" is a better fit than "science" in this context...
Just so you know, while he wasn't sketching, playing with his dog, or doing war things, Corporal Hitler was reading Schopenhauer or Nietzsche.
Well; BEFORE Democrats wrote the Federal Reserve Act and then FDR turned the USA onto a National Socialist Track....
The USA USE to be a LIMITED Government that couldn't make policies that starved it's citizens by their own POWER-MAD idiocy...
Perhaps instead of trying to point fingers at who's to blame for the Nazi-Regime's F'Ups it's about time to point the blame where it belongs.
"A combination of always-unpredictable weather..."
Science denier! Top men have proven that weather will only be worse. Learn to climate change!
You're part of the problem, Tuccile.
Let's hope you end soon.
Nadless Nardless the Nasty NAZI has a "Final Solution" for ALL of our problems... Punish (kill) ALL who oppose Nadless Nardless the Nasty NAZI! All Hail!
(What could POSSIBLY go wrong with this? Has it been tried before?
What were the results?)
Eradicate. Exterminate. Eliminate.
Exactly.
What other fate do you think your leftist masters have planned for you, you blithering leftist idiot?
Have you ever heard of libertarians? We're actually, factually more than a wee tad different than leftists of today... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism#:~:text=Libertarians%20seek%20to%20maximize%20autonomy,choice%2C%20individualism%20and%20voluntary%20association.
Yes, and you've been on board with many of those policies. Because... good intentions and political norms or something.
"we'll need to learn how to save ourselves from a plague of policymakers."
Shouldn't be too hard in a country with some half billion fire arms at hand. If the policymakers don't fear you and feel they can operate with impunity, which for the large part they can, no telling what kind of shenanigans they'll get up to.