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Animal Rights

Are Elephants People? New York's Highest Court Hears Case for Animal Personhood

Plus: School voucher program survives lawsuit, Biden invokes Defense Production Act for formula, and more...

Elizabeth Nolan Brown | 5.19.2022 9:30 AM

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ddpphotosrf006344 | Trish Drury / Danita Delimont Danita Delimont Photography/Newscom
(Trish Drury / Danita Delimont Danita Delimont Photography/Newscom)

Animal rights group "continues to misuse the writ of habeas corpus" to advance agenda, says zoo. Forget fetal personhood or corporate personhood. The next big battle over extending individual rights under U.S. law may come from a case involving an Asian elephant named Happy. The matter is currently being considered by New York's highest court.

Happy is around 50 years old and lives at the Bronx Zoo, where she has spent roughly 45 years of her life after being born in the wild. A group called the Nonhuman Rights Project is now suing to get her freed.

The Nonhuman Rights Project (NRP) says "Happy is an autonomous, cognitively complex elephant worthy of the right reserved in law for 'a person,'" explains the Associated Press. A lawyer for the zoo, which is run by the Wildlife Conservation Society (WCS), "argues Happy is neither illegally imprisoned nor a person, but a well-cared-for elephant 'respected as the magnificent creature she is.'"

On Wednesday, New York's Court of Appeals heard arguments about Happy's plight.

"She has an interest in exercising her choices and deciding who she wants to be with, and where to go, and what to do, and what to eat," the NRP's attorney, Monica Miller, told the A.P. "And the zoo is prohibiting her from making any of those choices herself."

The NRP wants to get Happy released through a habeas corpus proceeding, under which people can challenge illegal detention and imprisonment.

But the WCS challenged the NRP's legal strategy as well as the group's characterization of Happy's circumstances and quality of life. "NRP continues to misuse the writ of habeas corpus to advance what they have called 'a state-by-state, country-by-country, long-term litigation campaign,'" said the WCS in a statement:

The blatant exploitation of Happy the elephant by NRP to advance their coordinated agenda shows no concern for the individual animal and reveals the fact they are willing to sacrifice Happy's health and psychological well-being to set precedent….

In fact, Happy is not kept in isolation – she has contact with another elephant; Happy is not languishing; Happy is not kept indoors for half the year; Happy is well cared for by professionals with decades of experience and with whom she is strongly bonded.

WCS attorney Kenneth Manning suggested to the court that this lawsuit was not the proper venue for granting animals personhood. "If there's going to entire be a rewrite and a granting to animals of rights that they never had before, shouldn't that be done by the Legislature?" asked Manning.

Some judges on the court appeared skeptical of the NRP's argument about Happy's personhood. If Happy is a person, does that mean that I couldn't keep a dog?" asked Judge Jenny Rivera. "I mean, dogs can memorize words."

The idea that animals are legally people may seem ridiculous, and indeed lower courts have ruled against the NRP a number of times. But granting animals the legal rights of personhood is not unheard of.

Last year, a U.S. federal court held that the descendants of hippos formerly owned by drug kingpin Pablo Escobar could be considered "interested persons" with a legal right to challenge a government order that they be killed or sterilized. ("The decision had no real ramifications for the hippos themselves, given that they reside in Colombia," notes the A.P.)

Interest groups on both sides of the Happy case have submitted briefs to the court.

The New York Farm Bureau is one of the groups opposed to granting habeas corpus rights to Happy. "The agricultural industry should not be exposed to the wave of habeas petitions that NRP invites and that would swamp New York courts," it argued:

Worse, if any of those habeas petitions succeed in securing the release or transfer of livestock, the livelihoods of agriculturalists and their suppliers would be destroyed. The downstream effects also would be serious. If NRP has its way, the livestock on which people in New York, in the United States, and around the world depend for sustenance, would be released from their alleged "imprisonment" and could no longer be raised for food in New York.

"We believe this legal moment for Happy represents a key cultural crossroads for thinking more openly and honestly—and less selfishly—about what it would mean to treat the particularity of non-human animals with the moral seriousness it deserves," argued a brief submitted by five Catholic theologians from U.S. and Canadian universities.

More amicus briefs in support of freeing Happy can be found here.


FREE MINDS

A win for school choice in Tennessee. The state's voucher program is not unconstitutional, held the Tennessee Supreme Court:

In a major win for Gov. Bill Lee, the Tennessee Supreme Court on Wednesday struck down arguments that his controversial school voucher program violated the state constitution by only applying to districts in Davidson and Shelby counties.

Under the education savings account program, eligible students could choose to take public money for their education and apply it to private school tuition instead.

But only some students — specifically those in Metro Nashville and Shelby County public school districts — are part of the three-year pilot program approved narrowly by the Tennessee General Assembly in 2019.


FREE MARKETS

Biden invokes Defense Production Act for formula. Instead of canceling trade restrictions that exacerbate the U.S. baby formula shortage, President Joe Biden is invoking the Defense Production Act. "The president is requiring suppliers to direct needed resources to infant formula manufacturers before any other customer who may have ordered that good," said the White House. The administration is also using Department of Defense aircraft to fly formula to the U.S. from overseas. "Bypassing regular air freighting routes will speed up the importation and distribution of formula and serve as an immediate support as manufacturers continue to ramp up production," it said.


FOLLOW-UP

In yesterday's Roundup, we noted that Facebook was fact-checking and obscuring a vintage recipe for homemade baby formula on the grounds that government agencies and some doctors say folks shouldn't feed homemade formula to their kids. Adding to the silliness, Reason's Instagram post about the fact-checked post was also flagged for a content warning.


QUICK HITS

Former President George W. Bush: "The decision of one man to launch a wholly unjustified and brutal invasion of Iraq. I mean of Ukraine." pic.twitter.com/UMwNMwMnmX

— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) May 19, 2022

• The Department of Homeland Security's creepy disinformation board is on pause.

• Sen. Mitt Romney (R–Utah) and several other Republicans are sponsoring legislation to stop the Biden administration from canceling student loan debt.

• High school athletes in Albany say they are being suspended for wearing sports bras. The school says it's because they used foul language during a confrontation with a security guard at a lacrosse game.

• Should you be concerned about monkeypox?

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NEXT: Photo: A Libertarian City in the Cloud

Elizabeth Nolan Brown is a senior editor at Reason.

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  1. Fist of Etiquette   3 years ago

    Should you be concerned about monkeypox?

    I'm buying 20 bags of toilet paper just to be sure.

    1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

      The administration is also using Department of Defense aircraft to fly formula to the U.S. from overseas.

      Everyone knows they are so much more efficient than FedEx.

      1. JesseAz   3 years ago

        Psaki said just a month ago they couldn't do that.

        1. CE   3 years ago

          The situation is fluid.

          1. Deborah J. Bennet   3 years ago

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        2. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

          The science changed.

    2. Rich   3 years ago

      Laugh while you can, monkeypox.

    3. Zeb   3 years ago

      Should you be concerned about an insane and destructive government reaction to monkey pox?
      Seems like the more pertinent question.

      1. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

        Monkeypox? Isn't that racist?

        1. Zeb   3 years ago

          Seems like thinking of black people every time you hear the word "monkey" is pretty racist.

          1. JesseAz   3 years ago

            I think democrat like Sunny Hostin of the view says. She just doesn't get minorities who aren't democrats.

          2. R Mac   3 years ago

            It’s a monkey whistle Zeb. Please keep up.

          3. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

            Zeb, I don't know if you knew this, but racism is present in all aspects of western society. If you don't constantly find a way that everything is racists then you are the racist.
            Jeez don't you even crt?

            1. JesseAz   3 years ago

              Color blindness is a primary trait of white supremacy. Being against segragation is another.

      2. Eeyore   3 years ago

        Did this monkey pox start from a leopard bite?

        1. Yatusabes   3 years ago

          How do you catch it? Primarily, from an animal bite, scratch or contact with the animal's bodily fluid

          It was your turn to watch Karine Jean-Pierre.
          SMH.

          1. Eeyore   3 years ago

            Dozens of cases in different countries is a lot of fluid.

    4. thrakkorzog   3 years ago

      I'm more concerned about monkeypaws. Stupid ironic wishes.

      1. Hank Ferrous   3 years ago

        It would cut down on the hipster and millennial population by a large number if it were a monkey's paw outbreak...

  2. Spiritus Mundi   3 years ago

    Adding to the silliness, Reason's Instagram post about the fact-checked post was also flagged for a content warning.

    Yeah, silliness. Lets go with that.

    1. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

      Here is ENB being directly cencored by a dnc propaganda group, yet she doesn't learn

      1. Derp-o-Matic 6000   3 years ago

        Silly old authoritarians! What will they think of next?!

      2. damikesc   3 years ago

        If Reason is cool with being called a liar by multiple outfits, per Facebook, that is on them.

        1. R Mac   3 years ago

          To be fair, I think it’s become quite clear Reason doesn’t mind being called a liar.

          1. But SkyNet is a Private Company   3 years ago

            At least by some. No enemies anywhere on the Left

        2. MP   3 years ago

          MUH PRIVAT COMPANEEEEEEEEE

    2. Eeyore   3 years ago

      How can an entire article discussing it lack context?

      1. JesseAz   3 years ago

        It wasn't the correct context.

      2. Marshal   3 years ago

        Adapting an old adage, you can say anything you want as long as you blame the right. Their blaming the right wasn't explicit enough.

      3. CE   3 years ago

        Just guessing: The article had a point of view, and provided facts to support that point of view. But it didn't include other points of view the fact checker prefers.

        Because that exact same situation has produced the same "lacks context" whining in the past from the fact checkers.

  3. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

    Former President George W. Bush: “The decision of one man to launch a wholly unjustified and brutal invasion of Iraq. I mean of Ukraine.”

    Feeling guilty, are we?

    1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

      I can't believe that he didn't do it on purpose. The DC establishment are just screwing with us now.

  4. But SkyNet is a Private Company   3 years ago

    Has anyone asked the”elephant “ what xhit identifies as?

  5. OpenBordersLiberal-tarian   3 years ago

    "Are Elephants People? New York's Highest Court Hears Case for Animal Personhood"

    I don't know if elephants are people. But I know human fetuses 8 months 29 days into pregnancy are definitely not people.

    #AbortionAboveAll

    1. Moonrocks   3 years ago

      If men can be women, why can't elephants be people?

      1. Zeb   3 years ago

        Because they can't talk.

        1. R Mac   3 years ago

          Oh?

          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4g77gmrAwls

        2. Claptrap   3 years ago

          Neither can babies. Fifth Trimester Abortions Now!

          1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

            My little brother didn't really start to talk until he was two and a half. Imagine all the extra choice my mother could have had if only society was a bit more progressive.

      2. JesseAz   3 years ago

        I mean gender spectrum does include pandas and dragons.

        1. R Mac   3 years ago

          We need a panda abattoir and a dragon abattoir.

        2. mad.casual   3 years ago

          pandas

          Black, white, asian, perpetually endangered, and vegan? I think the first Panda to have an abortion will obliterate the SJW heirarchy.

    2. Minadin   3 years ago

      I don't know about elephants, but I think that the court should rule that nonhuman rights activists are not people.

    3. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

      Clearly all of the slippery slope assholes who argued that gay marriage would lead to forced trannie, to pedifilia, to beasiality were... Holy crap they were rigjt

      1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

        "You're a homophobic bigot for even suggesting that"

        *Nine years later*

        "Police! Police! I was off to have my 2spirited Unicorn child castrated when this monster said it was 'crazy to do that to a poor boy'! Arrest him, I feel so unsafe with his misgendering words of violence!"

      2. NOYB2   3 years ago

        Bestiality involving elephants tends to be self limiting.

    4. JesseAz   3 years ago

      Abortion activist just yesterday was being born and having a birthday. This elephant meets the qualifications.

      1. JesseAz   3 years ago

        Being Human was being born and havinga birthday. *

        1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

          Perish the thought that having human genes and a human body can't be part of the determination.

    5. Eeyore   3 years ago

      Also, fetuses one month overdue are still just clumps of cells.

    6. Square = Circle   3 years ago

      I don't know if elephants are people.

      I have it on good authority that heartbeat = personhood, so it seems like an obvious slam-dunk that they are, no?

      1. Nardz   3 years ago

        If they have human DNA, probably.
        If they don't have human DNA, then you'd seem to be confused.

        1. Square = Circle   3 years ago

          I've never understood the magic of "human" DNA. If a body with human DNA is born without a brain, is it a person with the full slew of human rights?

          And what if that creature with human DNA is a socialist?

          1. Hank Ferrous   3 years ago

            To answer your question, in the latter case, not human. /sarc?

    7. Eeyore   3 years ago

      Didn't the UK declare octopuses and lobsters people earlier thus year?

  6. Rich   3 years ago

    The Department of Homeland Security's creepy disinformation board is on pause.

    Or so they'd like you to believe.

    1. R Mac   3 years ago

      I won’t believe it until I hear it directly from Putin.

    2. JesseAz   3 years ago

      But don't you dare say jeff ever defended it despite him doing so. It will anger him and you'll be responsible for it.

    3. Derp-o-Matic 6000   3 years ago

      It's on pause while they think of a new name and prepare a more subdued roll-out.

      1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

        ^this

      2. TrickyVic (old school)   3 years ago

        Exactly.

        Once they figure out the new name, you will see a press release that the current one has been shut down completely.

      3. thrakkorzog   3 years ago

        And you will be banned from twitter for using their old name.

        1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

          Or mentioning Orwell.

  7. Nardz   3 years ago

    https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1527282010120519682?t=3Wip3W_TsCShF-Obumtk5A&s=19

    Tesla has been kicked off the ESG index in part for "racism," but really Elon Musk tweets. I wrote about the major discrimination lawsuit against them. Civil rights is an industry, so the least woke companies get targeted. Hence corporate woke arms races.

    [Link]

    1. A Thinking Mind   3 years ago

      Attacking electric vehicle producers to pwn the right. Environmentalism continues to be nothing more than a political wedge issue to attack people with and not a substance of serious policy.

      1. Overt   3 years ago

        Environmentalism is a religion, and Musk's crime is apostasy. If your solution to Human Evil is not subservience to Elites who narrowly define the luxuries you (not they) may partake in, then you are inconvenient at best, and a threat if too popular. Musk finds himself at this point.

        Remember that Galileo was originally adored by the Church, with national holidays in his name and fame bestowed by the Jesuits. His crime was not advancing heliocentricity. His crime was embarrassing the church.

        1. JesseAz   3 years ago

          The story of Galileo follows closer to the apostasy of covid deniers in the medical field. The catholic church was using science to justify heliocentricism. They relied on the theory if parallax to do so. They just couldn't imagine the distances to the stars.

          1. JesseAz   3 years ago

            And think that apostasy was centered on copernicus and not Galileo.

            http://www.scientus.org/Copernicus-Stellar-Parallax.html

          2. Overt   3 years ago

            When I talk about Galileo, I mean basically this: He was a brilliant mind, and everyone loved him. When he discovered the moons of Jupiter, he received a hero's welcome in Rome. He supported Heliocentricity and ultimately the Inquisition decided that it was incompatible with Scripture and rejected it. That would have been the end of things. He kept publishing, and even received praise from Pope Urban a few years later after he wrote "The Assayer". Indeed Urban was a long time friend from before his ascension.

            But then Galileo wrote "Dialogue"- partially at the urging of Urban. It wasn't the advancement of Heliocentricity that got him in trouble, it was that he named the advocate of Geocentricity out to be a fool named Simplicio. There is controversy about whether Galileo was being deliberately provocative, but nevertheless, he made the Church look foolish, and for that he was condemned.

            Again, it wasn't that he was right or wrong, it was that he embarrassed the wrong people. Musk is getting close to the same place.

            1. Its_Not_Inevitable   3 years ago

              The more things change, the more they stay the same.

              1. JasonAZ   3 years ago

                King Solomon said something about that. Something something, nothing new under the sun, something something.

                1. Ersatz   3 years ago

                  thats some fine biblical scholarship right there...!

                  1. Ersatz   3 years ago

                    😉
                    Thought i had better add that ... there have been thin skins around here lately. I was amused.

            2. mad.casual   3 years ago

              for that he was condemned

              And, chipping into context, 'condemned', while not inaccurate, may carry a connotation that something like 'fell out of favor' did not. The Inquisition routinely tortured and jailed people until they died. Galileo, thanks to Urban, was exempted from torture because of his age and served only one day of prison time and was then placed under 'villa arrest' (however they enforced that in the 17th century, until his death (8 yrs.).

              Also, not to defend The Inquisition, but for accuracy: 'rejected' is also somewhat inaccurate. They rejected it as political doctrine but revised and published, *with their blessing* De revolutionibus with a preface making it clear that it was a theory to aid computation and not Biblical Truth. But The Inquisition was just a loosely-organized private group of people with no card-carrying members, so their editorial discretion obviously didn't run afoul of libertarian sensibilities.

              1. mad.casual   3 years ago

                until his death (8 yrs.)

                Sorry, 28 yrs.

    2. Claptrap   3 years ago

      https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1526958110023245829

      Exxon is rated top ten best in world for environment, social & governance (ESG) by S&P 500, while Tesla didn’t make the list!

      ESG is a scam. It has been weaponized by phony social justice warriors.

      Musk has always been the best billionaire. He is under no illusions as to the path he's taking, either - dude's willing to put his vast fortune at risk to stop the bullshit one way or another.

      1. R Mac   3 years ago

        I just hope he’s got a yacht with some coke and hookers lined up in case he needs to make a run for it…oh wait.

        1. Yatusabes   3 years ago

          Rush Limbaugh died a while ago

    3. CE   3 years ago

      And Musk called them out on it, for Exxon being on the index when they were dropping an electric vehicle maker.

      1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

        Totally not political.

  8. A Thinking Mind   3 years ago

    If the elephant won't bring the suit himself, then I'd say he's fine with his circumstances.

    1. Sevo   3 years ago

      How about if the litigants identify as elephants?

      1. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

        Feel free to lock them up, too.

    2. CE   3 years ago

      L. Neil Smith covered all this in The Probability Broach.
      Chimpanzees and dolphins which demonstrated sapience (human or near-human level sentience, I guess) could be granted legal personhood.

      But then he also said that "animals are property" and is an avid hunter.

      1. Square = Circle   3 years ago

        There's a certain sense to it other than the basic social problem. We have a hard enough time socializing humans - it's hard to imagine letting an elephant just wander around and do whatever it wants on the principle that it can somehow take liability for damage it causes.

        What do you do when it crushes a car or knocks someone's house down - garnish its wages?

        1. Its_Not_Inevitable   3 years ago

          Wouldn't be much. I hear they get paid peanuts.

        2. CE   3 years ago

          How do you stop an emancipated elephant from charging?

          Freeze its bank accounts.

          1. mad.casual   3 years ago

            If an emancipated elephant drives a red SUV into a crowd of holiday revelers, does it make a sound?

            Only if there are no journalists around.

  9. Lord of Strazele   3 years ago

    "Biden invokes Defense Production Act for formula"

    The market failed and now the govt has to fix it.

    1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

      Yes, market failure. Let’s go with that.

      1. Not Robbers=Nut Rubbers   3 years ago

        It's almost like he ignored that the market failed due to all of the government interference prior to the shortage. And then ignored that the government is now removing some of the hurdles it takes to get formula on shelves to fix the problem it created.

        1. Sevo   3 years ago

          It's almost like he's a lying pile of lefty shit! Well, not "almost".

    2. Minadin   3 years ago

      So it's weird, because it turns out that there's no evidence of contamination at the major formula plant the FDA ordered shuttered months ago.

      Now they are allowing them to open back up.

      1. R Mac   3 years ago

        And I wonder why there is only three formula companies in this country in the first place? Nothing to do with government, I’m sure.

        1. Derp-o-Matic 6000   3 years ago

          It's because these are jobs Americans won't do, hence all the illegal immigration. It's all connected, man!

          1. Political McGuffin   3 years ago

            Pretty sure the formula shortage is a long term plan to make weaker kids so its harder to fight off the groomers at kindergarten.

        2. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

          All the abortions caused a drop in demand.

        3. Minadin   3 years ago

          As was stated in an earlier Roundup this week, HALF of the baby formula sold in this country is purchased with WIC funds.

          HALF.

          One government social program has captured HALF of an entire market. That's insane.

          1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

            Funny part, breast milk is free.
            But you can’t sell it for cash. Usually.

            1. Yatusabes   3 years ago

              ^^^^^ This!

              Whey and Casein protein

              https://haveitbd.com/with-formula-shortage-more-babies-switching-to-whey-protein-powder/

              We urge everyone unable to find baby formula right now to switch to whey protein powder. This will provide your child with all the necessary vitamins and nutrients, while also giving them sick gains,” said Dr. Hank Bulkems, a professional bodybuilder and baby formula chemist. “What babies need right now is a delicious combination of cookies ‘n cream flavor combined with whey isolate protein powder.” Many parents have reported that since they’ve switched to whey powder formula, their children have seen tremendous results. “Just the other day our son was shaking around his rattle, and today he’s shaking around my kettlebells!” said local parent Fred Griffin. “We even saw him on the baby cam in his crib doing crunches working on toning his abs!” Other parents have expressed concerns that their babies are liking the protein powder formula a little too much. They claim that their babies have been cutting off the sleeves of all their jammies and cry nonstop when you take them away from the mirror they were flexing in front of.

            2. Derp-o-Matic 6000   3 years ago

              I'm sure there are fetish websites that would prove you wrong.

          2. Eeyore   3 years ago

            Is that because half of all breeders are single moms and being a single mom is a road that frequently leads to poverty?

            1. Minadin   3 years ago

              I'm not sure, but when I was looking up stats on that Detroit area 'town' from the civil asset forfeiture article, I noticed that in the demographics, pretty close to 30% of households were listed as having children under the age of 18, and the municipality was also remarkable for having an extremely high percentage of single people at 87%

          3. Hank Ferrous   3 years ago

            One doesn't have to draw a long line to figure that goods bought w/ WIC are traded for items that cannot be purchased w/ WIC... Or sold, as DlaM says.

            1. American Mongrel   3 years ago

              Was on wic, that doesn't go down that way. You can get cheese, eggs, bread, peanut butter and formula.
              That is close to how it works with food stamps, but wic is more sensible. With food stamps, someone asks you if they can buy your food for you for 50 on the dollar. They'll even negotiate it down if you try.

        4. Minadin   3 years ago

          "
          For the past three decades, WIC has used what’s called sole-source contracting, which is designed to save the program money by allowing the states to buy formula far below retail prices. The National WIC Association estimates that state rebates save about $1.7 billion in costs each year. When a state contracts with a company, all WIC participants in the state use that same manufacturer. Just three companies have been awarded contracts during this time: Abbott Nutrition; Mead Johnson, which makes Enfamil; and Nestle, which makes Gerber."

          https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/19/baby-formula-shortage-federal-contracts-00033581

    3. R Mac   3 years ago

      This is ignorant for even you Sir Strudel.

      1. HorseConch   3 years ago

        I've got him muted, but I find that a very high hurdle to cross. I'm tempted to temporarily unmute his stupidity.

        1. R Mac   3 years ago

          The formula shortage is a failure of free markets and the government is now stepping in to save the day.

    4. Moonrocks   3 years ago

      I fucking called it! The regime is now trying to print baby formula just like bailout dollars!

      1. Eeyore   3 years ago

        I was hoping for a gene therapy that turns men into chest feeders.

        1. Minadin   3 years ago

          If men could grow their own titties, productivity in our economy would cease.

          1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

            I’d never leave the house.

            1. Ersatz   3 years ago

              steve martin line in L.A.Story

        2. JasonAZ   3 years ago

          His name is Robert Paulsen.

      2. mad.casual   3 years ago

        I call dibs on setting up the consensus network of crypto-formula miners.

    5. Eeyore   3 years ago

      The next step - mandatory formula consumption for all.

    6. CE   3 years ago

      Can't they release some from a strategic reserve or something?

    7. Unable2Reason   3 years ago

      Defense Production Act, aka Command Economy.

  10. OpenBordersLiberal-tarian   3 years ago

    "The Department of Homeland Security's creepy disinformation board is on pause."

    I hope it gets back on track. The woman leading it is quite impressive — not at all an "absurd #Resistance cartoon" like my least favorite journalist Glenn Greenwald called her.

    #LibertariansForTrustingGovernmentToDetermineWhatsTrue

    1. JesseAz   3 years ago

      #BelieveAllWomenEspeciallyTaylorAndNina

  11. R Mac   3 years ago

    “But only some students — specifically those in Metro Nashville and Shelby County public school districts — are part of the three-year pilot program approved narrowly by the Tennessee General Assembly in 2019.”

    But I was assured by Lying Jeffy that school choice would happen for everyone immediately?

  12. Zeb   3 years ago

    If Elephants were people, they would all be in prison. Unless you think that they are going to get jobs and live in a house. Being a person comes with responsibilities as well as rights. And you aren't going to return an elephant that has been in captivity it's whole adult life to the wild.

    1. A Thinking Mind   3 years ago

      This is just another flavor of the leftist mentality. They know what's best for everyone, even elephants. Nobody is allowed to make their own choices, they need someone to make them for them.

    2. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

      If persons can live like bums out on the streets, why can’t lions and tigers?

      1. A Thinking Mind   3 years ago

        And bears.

        1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

          Oh, my!

          1. R Mac   3 years ago

            Damnit.

        2. R Mac   3 years ago

          Oh my!

        3. JesseAz   3 years ago

          Bears live in trunks.

          https://reason.com/podcast/2021/10/25/freedom-responsibility-and-coronavirus-policy/?comments=true#comment-9176512

          1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

            Holy crap that was funny.

            1. R Mac   3 years ago

              An all time classic.

          2. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

            Poor chemleft, I bet he wishes reason had a comment edit button.

          3. Eeyore   3 years ago

            Lol

          4. R Mac   3 years ago

            Btw, no Lying Jeffy today? He took a pretty brutal beating yesterday.

            1. JasonAZ   3 years ago

              You guys should just mute him already. He's such a deliberately dishonest, fucking idiot.

        4. mad.casual   3 years ago

          The street? C'mon man! Poor bears are just as smart and just talented as polar bears.

      2. Hank Ferrous   3 years ago

        I am very much for tigers or grizzly bears in vegans' living spaces. Ditto PETA & NRP offices.

      3. The Team Struggling   3 years ago

        You propose an interesting solution to dealing with the homeless problem.

    3. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

      If they move to Cali they can continue to attack people, crap on the streets and destroy property and they will be legally protected

      #epephantlivesmatter

    4. Overt   3 years ago

      If elephants and apes are people (I doubt it, but I will play along), then at the least they would be judged mentally incompetent and unable to care for themselves in modern society.

      That's fine, I guess. But in practice that would mean that these animals would be remanded to the custody of a guardian, much like happens to children or adults with Downs Syndrome and the like. In practice this probably helps the animals because there is a pretty rich background in common law deciding what is "exploitation" of your trustee and what else might constitute "Breach of Trust". It isn't forbidden for a guardian to put their ward to work, and in fact it is encouraged in many places. But the guardian also has a fiduciary duty to make sure that every penny of that ward's income is used to their benefit, not the Guardian's (though you can still pay the guardian for that service).

      Certain things that would probably need to change: I don't think you can have permanent guardianship from a corporation. A person is going to have to adopt this Elephant, and they will be ultimately responsible for it. If this elephant were released into the wild, and it experienced ANY suffering from drought or predation or poaching, that person (and their accomplices) would be held responsible for the consequences, just as if you had sent your toddler into the forest to eek out a living.

      Does that mean all elephants would need to be adopted and brought into conservatorship? I think people ought to be pretty careful about where this leads.

      1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

        If they spend guardianship and care, we could put them in a place with a small replica of their natural environment, and people could come to see them and interact with them. We could call it a “zoo” or something.

        1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

          *need* not spend

        2. Overt   3 years ago

          Right, I think that is the natural consequence. At the end of the day, even if this elephant were called a person, it would be the dependent of the Zoo, or someone at the zoo. And you would be hard pressed to make the case that the Zoo is violating its fiduciary duties for the Elephant. If the Zoo was For-Profit, you might be able to make this case, though what would happen is they would designate the elephant an employee, pay a salary, and charge for rent/etc and all of that would be managed by an individual designated as their Guardian.

          Again, in practice, this might have marginal changes. But overall, you can't just say an Elephant has human right and then release it to walk around town any more than you can do that with a kid.

      2. R Mac   3 years ago

        I would be happy if the judge ruled in Nonhuman Rights Project‘s favor, but then assigned them as legal guardian and responsible for it’s care.

        1. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

          I wouldn't. This is actually a really bad precedent to get set. They're building it up to get animals declared to have full human rights as a means to end consumption of meat.

          I believe there are real downstream negative effects of the move to weaken human rights into a completely general sentiment as well. This is actually a big fight in our lifetime, and it will have serious consequences.

          1. R Mac   3 years ago

            Yeah, I was joking.

        2. Overt   3 years ago

          In addition to what BUCS said, it is noteworthy that PETA is responsible for some of the most pet deaths in the world. Generally you find that when you remove the competitive pressures of the environment on animals, they tend to overpopulate, and these animal rights organizations have no time or energy to house animals when there is activisming to do, and so they euthanize them.

          1. Minadin   3 years ago

            Ironically, if you want to ensure the survival of an animal species, the best thing to do is the opposite of what PETA would do.

            Eat it.

            We aren't running out of chickens, cattle, turkeys or pigs, are we? Some of the most successful (population-wise) large animals on the planet are the ones we humans consume as a regular part of our diet.

            1. soldiermedic76   3 years ago

              In almost all measures of success, the North American Conservation Model is by far the most successful. By paying for it with hunting and fishing licenses, and taxation on hunting and fishing equipment, it's a user fee, but it also incentives the user to protect and work on improving habitat. The decreasing numbers of hunters and fishers is hurting many states in conservation funding. So much so, that even liberal states like Washington and Oregon are realizing it and begging people to come back to hunting and fishing, or making it easier for people to take it up for the first time.

              I was discussing with my Dad sage grouse, which several groups are trying to use to end grazing on public (and in some cases private) land in the west (although the science shows managed grazing actually benefits sage grouse). Ranchers, we do it for the lifestyle as much as, if not more so, than the money. We like having wildlife on our land and like improving their habitats when possible. But start making it too complicated and too expensive and then we would rather shoot, shovel and shut up, because it becomes too much of a hassle and costs us our livelihoods. So in the end making everything a hassle and costly ends up hurting rather than helping the environment.

              1. Minadin   3 years ago

                Yes, shockingly, deer hunters would rather have a thriving deer population rather than a scarce one.

                Growing up, my family was very big on conservation, opposed to environmentalism. We still are.

    5. Zeb   3 years ago

      Here's another thing about captive animals, particularly highly endangered species like elephants or big cats. I got to thinking when that Tiger Dude show came out. I personally find the captivity of animals like that fairly distasteful. But because of crazy weirdos like that, there are more tigers in private collections than there are in the wild. Is that not in many ways a good thing?

      1. Overt   3 years ago

        Also imagine if this ethos had been in place when Man and Wolf were first buddying up. This moral code would have absolutely prevented the sort of co-evolution that created man's best friend.

      2. soldiermedic76   3 years ago

        Elephants really aren't threatened or endangered. They are in some countries but not others. In fact the countries that allow elephant hunting actually have healthier, larger populations and far less poaching. In some countries they are so overpopulated that they've become real dangers and nuisances. These countries are begging foreigners to come on safari, however, the international ban on ivory makes hunting elephants not very attractive (same with polar bears and US ban on polar bear hides, even from legally harvested bears). It's going to cost you $20,000+ to harvest an elephant. You can't bring it's meat back (it usually gets donated to local villagers, who also hire out to the guides, and get large tips from the hunters). Bringing the ivory back from a legally taken elephant would benefit the environment and elephant conservation, while also providing money, food and employment to some of the most impoverished areas of Africa. The total ban on ivory makes no sense but it feels good to people who don't know anything about the issue.

        1. mtrueman   3 years ago

          "Africa Hunt Lodge allows the opportunity to hunt and harvest South African Elephant from March until November. Southern Africa is the premier destination in the World to hunt the Elephant, with populations in South Africa, Mozambique, and Zimbabwe nearly a half a million. We offer hunts for awesome Trophy Elephant where you can expect to harvest a 30-60 pound Elephant within a 10 day hunt. "

          What kind of sick fuck would spend 60 grand to go to Africa to kill a baby elephant?

    6. Eeyore   3 years ago

      I've looked into thier beedy little eyes and determined that all elephants are gangsters.

      1. Its_Not_Inevitable   3 years ago

        And not the nice kind either.

    7. CE   3 years ago

      The elephants could just be homeless and eat stuff. It is their natural right.

      If you're going to grant the elephant personhood, you no longer have any justification to keep it confined.

      1. Eeyore   3 years ago

        I'm curious how well elephants tolerate cold winters.

        1. CE   3 years ago

          Elephants invented adapting to cold winters. They started out as mammoths.

    8. soldiermedic76   3 years ago

      The elephant is the proverbial camels nose in the tent. If they can win it will be animal agriculture and hunting and fishing that comes next.

  13. damikesc   3 years ago

    ""We believe this legal moment for Happy represents a key cultural crossroads for thinking more openly and honestly—and less selfishly—about what it would mean to treat the particularity of non-human animals with the moral seriousness it deserves," argued a brief submitted by five Catholic theologians from U.S. and Canadian universities."

    So, eating would be murder.

    This is an idea so idiotic that it can only be blamed on higher education.

    1. A Thinking Mind   3 years ago

      Meat is Murder is not an uncommon rallying cry for animal rights' groups.

      1. damikesc   3 years ago

        They seem to ignore that many animals, in fact, eat meat.

        1. Hank Ferrous   3 years ago

          There is a sub-set of the group who are quite certain that carnivores can eat plants. I recall reading one jackass' suggestion that sections of Africa be fenced to separate the herbivores and their predators -the predators would just 'evolve' into peaceful grass eating beasts. This is what comes of city people, poor education, and cultish devotion to the in-group belief system, believing they comprehend how animals live because they saw their pet eat grass.

          1. Sevo   3 years ago

            "...the predators would just 'evolve' into peaceful grass eating beasts..."

            Easy to prove; send the idiot who claimed this into the enclosure a month after the isolation!

            1. HorseConch   3 years ago

              These are the same morons that believe we can stop using fossil fuel. Sure, it will be great if you live in the tropics, but I don't intend to die every winter.

              1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

                Covid will kill you every year anyway.

            2. Hank Ferrous   3 years ago

              A month? That's cruel, starving the animals for that long. I say airdrop vegans once a week starting on the 4th day, from a height that will break legs but not kill them.

          2. Eeyore   3 years ago

            Lysenko would be so proud.

        2. Square = Circle   3 years ago

          They seem to ignore that many animals, in fact, eat meat.

          Many animals also rape, murder and torture with some regularity.

          They may not be the best moral compass.

          1. Nardz   3 years ago

            You're a bit off today

            1. Square = Circle   3 years ago

              I disagree.

      2. Zeb   3 years ago

        And also an excellent album by The Smiths.

    2. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

      No, eating will be cannibalism.

    3. Moonrocks   3 years ago

      What gave it away?

      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/01/02/europes-first-animal-rights-centre-launches-cambridge/

  14. Nardz   3 years ago

    https://twitter.com/realDailyWire/status/1527003609472176129?t=jGZ9Tjd6xz05rso3WXwEtA&s=19

    Disney Launches LGBTQ ‘Pride Collection’ Clothing Line For Kids, Promises To Donate Profits To LGBTQ Organizations

    [Link]

    1. HorseConch   3 years ago

      Not sure what counts as an LBTQRSVP+3 organization, but they surely aren't as corrupt as BLM.

    2. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

      You have a problem with this why?

      1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

        It's unfair.
        Disney won't produce religious items for other faiths and ideologies. No Disney brand prayer wheels, rosaries, crucifixes, prayer mats, special underwear, temple bells, mala or vajra.

        Just the LGBTQ2WTFBBQ cult gets worship merch.

        1. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

          It wouldn’t be profitable. Since all the religious kooks hate Disney there’s no demand for Burka Goofy or Magic Underwear Mickey.

          Why make products that there’s no market for?

          1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

            I absolutely guarantee you that the alphabet pervert merch not only isn't profitable, but loses money.
            Disney is social signaling to its executive's peer group. Nothing else. Profit is irrelevant.

            1. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

              Disney not caring about profit and doing something just because they believe it’s the right thing to do?

              Hahaha!

              “alphabet pervert?” You need to do a better job of hiding your disdain for non-heterosexuals. Here’s a tip: Try to hide it like you hide your disdain for the Jews.

              1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                "You need to do a better job of hiding your disdain for non-heterosexuals"

                Anything that isn't heterosexual sex for the express purpose of reproduction is perversion by definition. I'll freely admit I've been a pervert many, many times myself.

                What I don't do though, is demand others respect my perversions and respect me as a hero and a martyr for them, like the alphabet clownshow does.

                I like perverts who are fags, dykes, furries and trannies incidentally. But I definitely disdain the freakshows that "identify" as alphabet, force everyone to honor it and preach it like a god to be worshiped.

                Is that what you wanted to hear you stupid, hate-filled woke fuck?

                1. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

                  “ But I definitely disdain the freakshows that "identify" as alphabet, force everyone to honor it and preach it like a god to be worshiped”

                  You just want them to fit your definition of what they should call themselves.

                  Fuck off bugot

                  1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                    Keep pretending it's not a cult and pathology you're shilling for, wokey.

                    1. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

                      “ Keep pretending it's not a cult and pathology you're shilling for, wokey.”

                      This coming from the Qanon follower.

                    2. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                      Qanon doesn't exist. It's a 4chan bogeyman that the NYT uses to freak out wine mom's and gullible idiots like you.

                    3. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

                      That’s why Trump rallies are littered with Q signs and shirts.

                      You spout the same bs those assholes spout.

                      Replace your rants with “Jews” instead of “Soros” or “wef.” See how it reads.

                      Fuck off bigot

                    4. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                      "That’s why Trump rallies are littered with Q signs and shirts."

                      I've never been to a Trump rally, as he doesn't hold them in Canada. Have you been to one, or did Brian Stelter tell you all about them on CNN? Did you actually believe him?

                      "Replace your rants with “Jews” instead of “Soros” or “wef.” See how it reads."

                      What the fuck, Shrike! Are you actually trying to blame Soros and Schwab's corporatist bullshit on the Jews? I knew you were an antisemite, but wow!

                    5. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

                      You are such a disingenuous fuck.

                      I was saying your rants about Soros and WWEF are veiled antisemitism you stupid aspie fuck.

                      You’re so dumb. You defend a religion that rounds kids like you up into camps and abusive institutions.

            2. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

              Since they’re obviously doing this for the PR they’ve concluded there’s more of a market in appealing to the LGTBQ+ community and their allies than there is in marketing towards religious kooks and their allies(you).

              You bigots are outnumbered.

              1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                No they fucking haven't. They're doing it for religious reasons and that's the only reason.
                They're going to alienate a huge majority, impoverish their stockholders and collapse the company. But they don't care because shilling LGBTQQWTFBBQ is a duty and a sacrament for them. They're zealots, not businessmen.

                1. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

                  Since Disney has always raked in the dough in the past I won’t hold my breath that respecting the LGTB+ community is what will ruin them.

                  I don’t watch the Star Wars or the Marvels, but there’s LGTB+ characters in those and they seem to be doing pretty well.

                  1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                    No they're not. They're doing a fraction of what was expected.

                    1. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

                      They’re in dire financial straits alright. Buying Fox, Star Wars, Marvel. I know you don’t follow sports but they own ESPN and they’ve been throwing money at their analysts like crazy lately. Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Troy Aikman, and Joe Buck have gotten paid big time in the last couple years. Monday night football is supposed to stop sucking next year because of their financial commitment.

                      I’ll take Disney’s track record over a homophobic aspie incel from Kelowna or whatever.

                      Btw fuck Disney. Can’t believe I’m defending them.

                    2. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                      Buying shit with borrowed money isn't exactly an in-the-black financial statement and shareholder dividends, retard.
                      Want to tell me how Disney income and its stock price is doing lately?

                    3. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

                      How are they’re doing?

                      I know the stock market is doing shitty lately, so naturally they’d do shitty regardless of their business decisions lately.

                      I’ll take a century of proven profit over the word of some incel from Cranbrook

                    4. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

                      Aspie incel

                    5. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                      Keep seething, troll.

            3. Unable2Reason   3 years ago

              Yeah, ask Netflix about the profitability of it's alphabet programming. I expect this to be one of the first cuts as Netflix slides down the tubes.

              1. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

                Netflix produces lots of shitty content. Of course their LGTBQ+ content will suck.

  15. Weigel's Cock Ring   3 years ago

    There's a pretty good chance that by time today is over, all the major stock market indexes will be below where they were on the day this shifty, terrible so-called "president" took office.

    Multi-billionaire hotshot day trader Dipshit Dave Weigel will be the hardest hit.

    1. OpenBordersLiberal-tarian   3 years ago

      If Mr. Buttplug doesn't respond to this wingnut.com disinformation by telling you how amazing the Biden economy is, it's because he's busy purchasing his dozenth yacht.

      #DefendBidenAtAllCosts
      #BestEconomyEver

      1. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

        Ok, but the US Stock market don't agree with Mr. Buttplug.

        #WeBeInBearMarketNow

        1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

          Republican lies!

        2. CE   3 years ago

          It's just showing that inflation is a myth.
          Company stock costs less than it did six months ago.

          1. Its_Not_Inevitable   3 years ago

            ^ :<)

    2. American Mongrel   3 years ago

      I'm still beating the indices, but it sure as fuck ain't pretty.

  16. Nardz   3 years ago

    https://www.revolver.news/2022/05/buffalo-shooting-payton-gendron-what-did-fbi-know-when-did-they-know-it/

    1. A Thinking Mind   3 years ago

      So either Gendron was not among those being monitored, which would represent a massive oversight, or the FBI is impotent to stop violence even when they are monitoring potential risks, which would be just as concerning.

      The unspoken premise here is that the FBI apparently should be monitoring literally everything people do and have the ability and capacity to respond to prevent future crimes. I dislike that. We don't need such a broad ranging security apparatus monitoring American citizens.

      This wasn't someone who had made repeated, specific threats and then told people about the rifle he was purchasing and which people he was going to shoot. He'd made one single glib comment that people found concerning. Kids say edgy shit sometimes, people say weird things. I don't want the FBI to be able to seize the records of anyone who says, "I have a woodchipper and I think there's a federal judge or two that would make nice fertilizer."

      Violent shit will happen when you have disaffected members of society. Further security crackdowns on the population is not how the solve this problem.

      1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

        If we can stop a virus dead in it’s tracks in just two weeks, we can stop all the crazies too.

        1. JesseAz   3 years ago

          My government monitoring protects you, your government monitoring protects me.

          1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

            We are all monitoring together.

            1. HorseConch   3 years ago

              It shows that they are only watching right-wing violence. They seem to have missed a bunch of crazy lefties in the last several months. That, or they just suck at doing their job, and need to stay the fuck out of people's lives.

      2. Overt   3 years ago

        Right. People always look at some "Warning Sign" and say, "See? We could have caught him!"

        But this ex post facto analysis is always wrong headed. The question isn't "what were the warning signs?" The question is really, "Which warning signs were unique?"

        As you note, people say stupid shit all the time. The FBI should not be visiting them. And if that means sometimes a crazy person blows up a building, or shoots some people, that is preferable to an authoritarian surveillance state.

        1. Moonrocks   3 years ago

          The problem is that we already have an authoritarian surveillance state that isn't shy about throwing its weight at concerned parents attending school board meetings and has white supremacist violence as its stated top priority. I think it's fair to wonder if the FBI was simply too busy with, for example, mean tweets about the minister of truth to worry about what might happen to the peasants.

          And further considering the FBI's recent history of coordinating violent crimes, I think it's also fair to wonder if the FBI was involved in any of the planning for this one.

          1. Claptrap   3 years ago

            It wouldn't surprise me if >25% of the most vile shit posted in the asscrack of the internet was put there by Feds trolling for a career-boosting domestic terrorist to interdict.

            1. R Mac   3 years ago

              I haven’t noticed any lately, but once in awhile one seems to show up here.

            2. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

              That's a little extreme, it's not like the FBI is running child porn sights.... Ummmm.......right?

              1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                Only the one or two that they admitted to, and that was only to catch more criminals.

        2. Claptrap   3 years ago

          Eventually there's going to be a program to leverage AI to do this work, behind some veil of anonymity, because it's never one warning sign but a combination of them that should raise a red flag (that these are most likely to present themselves in cyberspace only enhances the case).

          That's going to be problematic for libertarians like you and me, but it's the most realistic way to split the "protect our gun rights but please reduce the amount of mass shooters" baby.

          1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

            Yes, AI making decisions like this sounds “realistic “.

            1. Claptrap   3 years ago

              Politically realistic. I'm sure the false positive rate will be bonkers at the start, so we'll just let the Chinese secretly perfect the algorithm before rolling it out to great fanfare. They're cool that way.

              1. Overt   3 years ago

                And no one will notice when people with the wrong ideas start getting visited and harassed and deplatformed.

      3. Hank Ferrous   3 years ago

        Or the bureau, which donates a whopping 70+% to left-leaning sociopolitical causes, was monitoring, and let him do his thing in the name of pushing their favored narratives and agenda. It's not as if the alphabet agencies don't have a history of manipulation, use of propaganda, running operations and other less than legal shit here. Is this the case? Probably not, but I would not put much past the activist class in the government. This aside, agreed, fuck no, the current push for more power in the hands of the unaccountable and new domestic terrorism units created by the House are absolutely the wrong direction. And anybody who thinks otherwise belongs on a list. The last bit, /sarc

    2. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

      Nardz please stick to the journalistic guidelines! It was a mostly peaceful trip to the grocery store

      1. Hank Ferrous   3 years ago

        Thank goodness it wasn't a red SUV.

    3. thrakkorzog   3 years ago

      Interesting article. For those who didn't read it, it's not so much that the FBI let this one slip by, and more what are the odds that the FBI helped encourage the shooter to support their narrative?

      Given the FBI's history of encouraging various plots, it isn't exactly farfetched to think that they might be involved in an incident that perfectly supports the narrative they're trying to push.

      1. R Mac   3 years ago

        We still don’t know anything about the Vegas shooter…

        1. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

          Ex postal worker goes postal

        2. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

          Just goes to show we need common sense postal worker control

        3. CE   3 years ago

          Didn't fit the narrative.
          Targeted a country music concert randomly.

          1. Ronbback   3 years ago

            would of got way more coverage if he had targeted a rap concert instead of country music. most libs were happy a bunch of hick country music fans got theirs for a change

  17. OpenBordersLiberal-tarian   3 years ago

    Our allies at the New York Times have devised a brilliant strategy to defeat Putin: name calling!

    We Should Say It. Russia Is Fascist.

    I learned in college literally everything my professors didn't like was "fascist" — ICE, GamerGate, traditional beauty standards (emphasis on thinness), etc. It's only natural to apply this logic to Russia.

    #LibertariansForGettingToughWithRussia

    1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

      Gold.

    2. Moonrocks   3 years ago

      Money quote:

      Fascists calling other people “fascists” is fascism taken to its illogical extreme as a cult of unreason. It is a final point where hate speech inverts reality and propaganda is pure insistence. It is the apogee of will over thought. Calling others fascists while being a fascist is the essential Putinist practice.

      This whole article is just 1000 words to describe the Spiderman-pointing-at-Spiderman picture.

      For those that don't want to give the New York Times a click:
      https://archive.ph/f0Dk9

    3. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

      They've been doing it since the start.

      “It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley’s broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.” - George Orwell, 1944

  18. OpenBordersLiberal-tarian   3 years ago

    "brutal invasion of Iraq"

    Ehhhhhhhhhh can't we stop dwelling on that? Many of the Bush-era neocons (David Frum, Bill Kristol, Jennifer Rubin) are basically Democrats now, the Democratic Party's favorite Congressional Republican is Dick Cheney's daughter, and Reason's editor-in-chief KMW actually worked at The Weekly Standard with Kristol.

    No need to remind our #Resistance allies of mistakes they might have made 20 years ago.

    #LibertariansForEmbracingIraqWarSupporters

  19. Derp-o-Matic 6000   3 years ago

    The president is requiring suppliers to direct needed resources to infant formula manufacturers before any other customer who may have ordered that good

    And the president will then direct that formula to the border.

    1. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

      I don't understand how the president has that power. This actually is socialism, it's bizarre. Like, folks always say that, but the central management of supply lines, choosing who goes where when, is actually socialism.

      1. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

        Like, to the point where I think there's something there and I should just read the link.

      2. mad.casual   3 years ago

        Yeah. The distinction being if they're able to control supply lines and command companies outside the border to redirect their goods (socialism) vs. only inside the borders (nationalist socialism).

      3. Derp-o-Matic 6000   3 years ago

        Without bothering to read the linked article, my understanding is that the Defense Production Act, the constitutionality of which is fairly dubious, allows the president to take control over that kind of thing in times of war or emergency. As Justice Jackson once put it, "emergency powers beget emergencies."

        1. Square = Circle   3 years ago

          While it's all pretty stupid and sinister, when you dial into the actualities it seems like little more than posturing - he seems to simply be speaking the phrase "Defense Production Act" while asking people who supply things to formula manufactures to prioritize those shipments.

          Are there any tracking or enforcement mechanisms, or does this really boil down to "pretty please help me look like I'm doing something?"

      4. American Mongrel   3 years ago

        Sounds more like fascism to me. A beautiful compromise between capitalism and communism. Completely superior to the compromise that is socialism. A true third way...
        The ideology of cords of woods and other faggots (bundles of sticks, of course).

  20. Derp-o-Matic 6000   3 years ago

    Should you be concerned about monkeypox?

    No, but if the past two years have taught me anything, you should probably be concerned about people who are concerned about monkeypox.

    1. Square = Circle   3 years ago

      ^

  21. Derp-o-Matic 6000   3 years ago

    Adding to the silliness, Reason's Instagram post about the fact-checked post was also flagged for a content warning.

    Yet you continue to believe that the "War on Misinformation" is a just cause, only run by the wrong people.

  22. Derp-o-Matic 6000   3 years ago

    Sen. Mitt Romney (R–Utah) and several other Republicans are sponsoring legislation to stop the Biden administration from canceling student loan debt.

    If Biden is going to ignore the Constitution in canceling student debt, I doubt a law will slow him down.

    1. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

      It's not super clear that he can anyway. That's probably at least one reason he's sat so long on this. The ability of the executive to spend money without legislative approval is so unconstitutional even he may slow down for.

  23. Sevo   3 years ago

    Always fun, trying to figure out what headline Roundup got.

  24. Fist of Etiquette   3 years ago

    High school athletes in Albany say they are being suspended for wearing sports bras.

    Declare your pronouns before appropriating gender clothing!

    1. mad.casual   3 years ago

      There is no bra in team!

  25. Fist of Etiquette   3 years ago

    Sen. Mitt Romney (R–Utah) and several other Republicans are sponsoring legislation to stop the Biden administration from canceling student loan debt.

    And just like that, back to villain.

  26. Fist of Etiquette   3 years ago

    The Department of Homeland Security's creepy disinformation board is on pause.

    But only pause, so get your licks in while you can, disinformers!

    1. mad.casual   3 years ago

      Nothing I post, ever, is disinformation.

    2. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

      I'm just glad I'm once again free to spread disinformation too and fro.

      1. mad.casual   3 years ago

        I'm just glad I'm once again free to spread disinformation too and frow.

        FIFY 🙂

        1. This Is The Zodiac Speaking   3 years ago

          What is "frow"?

  27. Fist of Etiquette   3 years ago

    “The decision of one man to launch a wholly unjustified and brutal invasion of Iraq. I mean of Ukraine.”

    Ouch for Colin Powell's ghost.

  28. Longtobefree   3 years ago

    "Instead of canceling trade restrictions that exacerbate the U.S. baby formula shortage, President Joe Biden is invoking the Defense Production Act."
    Because fascists believe in forcing corporations to do stuff.
    Has anyone even checked to see if stuff in baby formula is used in other stuff as well?

    1. R Mac   3 years ago

      Pretty sure if you throw ventilators into a blender it turns them into baby formula.

    2. Ronbback   3 years ago

      yea lets create shortages in other areas to fix something we broke in the first place that can be fixed by other means. pretty much how everything is going right now from baby food to gas to food in general. remember when the U.S. was the bread basket to the world now we can't even feed ourselves. what happened.

      1. R Mac   3 years ago

        There was an old lady who swallowed a fly..

        1. Square = Circle   3 years ago

          Do you know why?

          1. R Mac   3 years ago

            I don’t. But she ended up dying.

    3. thrakkorzog   3 years ago

      Pretty sure corn syrup is in there, but it's not like that is used in anything else.

      1. Square = Circle   3 years ago

        Pretty sure corn syrup is in there, but it's not like that is used in anything else.

        And certainly needs to be kept out of the hands of people who may try to attempt to concoct unauthorized baby formula.

  29. Fist of Etiquette   3 years ago

    ...Reason's Instagram post about the fact-checked post was also flagged for a content warning.

    YOU WILL DRINK BILL GATES' FAKE TIDDY MILK.

    1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

      I bet he’s using that recipe from the 1960’s.

      1. R Mac   3 years ago

        Only with microchips in it.

        1. mad.casual   3 years ago

          Intel® Colostrum™ i3 processor inside™

  30. Fist of Etiquette   3 years ago

    Instead of canceling trade restrictions that exacerbate the U.S. baby formula shortage, President Joe Biden is invoking the Defense Production Act.

    And then we're sending those fatted babies to Ukraine.

    1. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

      I'm fairly certain that Russia does not have any bombs that are able to dent a full sized American fat person.

      1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

        Differently sized person

  31. Fist of Etiquette   3 years ago

    ...part of the three-year pilot program approved narrowly by the Tennessee General Assembly in 2019.

    They wouldn't have approved it at all if they knew it would be constitutional!

  32. Sevo   3 years ago

    "Watchdog: US troop pullout was key factor in Afghan collapse"
    [...]
    "A new report says decisions by Presidents Donald Trump and Joe Biden to pull all U.S. troops out of Afghanistan were the key factors in the collapse of that nation’s military, leading to the Taliban takeover last year..."
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/watchdog-us-troop-pullout-key-factor-afghan-collapse-84797202

    The Afghani's inability to, well, form a functioning government and an effective military might have had something to do with it, no?

    1. Moonrocks   3 years ago

      See? It was Trump's fault all along!

    2. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

      SLOPPY PULLOUT!

    3. Square = Circle   3 years ago

      The Afghani's inability to, well, form a functioning government and an effective military might have had something to do with it, no?

      No. No no no.

      They had a functioning government and an effective military, which is why our indefinite presence was required. The fact that both of those things vanished without a trace the moment US forces started to pull back proves it.

  33. Fist of Etiquette   3 years ago

    ...Happy is neither illegally imprisoned nor a person, but a well-cared-for elephant 'respected as the magnificent creature she is.'

    Maybe they'll count her as 3/5th of person.

  34. Union of Concerned Socks   3 years ago

    Happy's not a person.

    Mister Happy-- well, now there's a case to be made.

    1. R Mac   3 years ago

      Pizza’s aren’t people!

      1. mad.casual   3 years ago

        Just a clump of dough until after the first third-stone of cheese is baked in.

    2. This Is The Zodiac Speaking   3 years ago

      What about Captain Howdy?

  35. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

    Re: TN School Choice

    So the Legislature passed a law for a 3-year experiment back in 2019. Now it has been three years. What is next for TN?

    The idea of parental taxpayers being able to direct their tax dollars to the educational institution of their choice, and not just a public school, is here to stay. I have the feeling we will see many more of these battles.

    This is logical fallout from the pandemic, to me.

  36. Dillinger   3 years ago

    >>Sen. Mitt Romney (R–Utah) and several other Republicans are sponsoring legislation to stop the Biden administration from canceling student loan debt.

    (R) has lost its mind.

  37. Dillinger   3 years ago

    >>Biden invokes Defense Production Act for formula.

    "not giving it to my kid because I don't know what's in it."

    1. R Mac   3 years ago

      Well then they’ll just have to mandate it.

  38. Longtobefree   3 years ago

    Are members of the Nonhuman Rights Project human?

  39. Dillinger   3 years ago

    also, icwydt with the 43 pic right above the monkeypox reference.

  40. Nardz   3 years ago

    Is this a big deal?
    Seems like this should be a big deal...

    https://twitter.com/ClimateAudit/status/1526994002586873857?t=OaljkRXEXQeETm5AtiSkyw&s=19

    Disinformation Czar Nina worked on Zelensky campaign in 2019.

    I presume that Czarina Nina, Vindman and Alexandra Chalupa all knew one another.

    [Link]

    1. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

      Nah, it was entirely coincidental. Totally.

      Mt. Buttplug (or OBL) will be along shortly to tell us Peanuts how them knowing each other is just a conspiracy theory that cannot possibly be true. I mean, it is just like that other conspiracy theory, the one about the China virus being created in a lab from bat coronaviruses. Whoever heard of something soooo outlandish.

      Yeah, tin foil hat territory, Nardz. 😉

  41. mad.casual   3 years ago

    Are elephants people? Nrp! Next question.

    1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

      The next step is to extend that to all zoo animals, then working animals, pets, and livestock as well.

      1. mad.casual   3 years ago

        Well if *you* didn't elect Biden and *I* didn't elect Biden, then who did? *Turns stare at dog.*

  42. Quicktown Brix   3 years ago

    "Happy is around 50 years old"

    Old enough to vote...

  43. Nardz   3 years ago

    https://twitter.com/yesh222/status/1527312240264634369?t=ejwltKHFciEHft60MgyHAA&s=19

    A census bureau mistake saved three House seats in Democratic [states] that should have been axed and cost seats in two Republican states (Florida and Texas) and we're just kinda moving on from it?

    [Link]

    1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

      Gosh, accidents like this always happen in the same direction. What an odd coincidence.
      Good thing that the deep state isn't real.

      1. Dillinger   3 years ago

        it's a right-wing media operation.

    2. mad.casual   3 years ago

      we're just kinda moving on from it?

      Not enough to influence the outcome. No standing. Next case.

    3. R Mac   3 years ago

      No “widespread” census fraud.

    4. Minadin   3 years ago

      I like how they are saying it's mostly OK though because Minnesota would have just gerrymandered out a republican-leaning district, so it sort of evens out.

  44. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    I was talking with my daughter the other day about things that were totally normal a century ago that would be unacceptable today, and then we mused about what might be illegal a century from now that's normal today.

    The subject of pets came up. Stupid shit like "Are Elephants People?" makes me wonder.

    1. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

      I actually do think that will be the thing. Though, if we reached some point where we all eat some sort of plant-derived protein and had no pets or livestock, or whatever, that would be such a big change I don't know what it would look like.

    2. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

      I starting to think our future is more akin to life in Shanghai the last 2 months.

    3. CE   3 years ago

      And even if the elephants are granted personhood, they won't have the same job opportunities they used to have:

      https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/18/entertainment/ringling-bros-circus-return-2023-cec/index.html

      The circus' famed title -- "The Greatest Show on Earth" -- remains. But notably missing from the new show are live animals: Elephants, tigers and the rest of the beasts whose appearances in the circus drew ire from animal activists and audiences before the original show ceased, are not included in the revamped tour.

    4. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

      Interesting question, sarcasmic. Pets was pretty interesting. I'd add AI robots to the list; it will be called slavery.

  45. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

    <In yesterday's Roundup, we noted that Facebook was fact-checking and obscuring a vintage recipe for homemade baby formula on the grounds that government agencies and some doctors say folks shouldn't feed homemade formula to their kids. Adding to the silliness, Reason's Instagram post about the fact-checked post was also flagged for a content warning.

    Oh, so silly. teehee.

    1. Mickey Rat   3 years ago

      This is the world ENB argues favorably for. May she get it, good and hard.

    2. CE   3 years ago

      yeah, the kids are clearly better off with no formula at all than with a recipe people used 40 years ago.

  46. Nardz   3 years ago

    https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1527298596478935042?t=tuMuDQVVE28EsoJ_E9yFrg&s=19

    "At least 135 teachers and teachers’ aides have been arrested so far this year on child sex-related crimes in the U.S., ranging from child pornography to raping students."

    [Link]

    1. mad.casual   3 years ago

      And ENB chooses to go with the retardedly false "HS track coaches wouldn't let the girls run topless." narrative.

      1. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

        ENB is more likely to tell us how 'minor attracted persons' is normal and shit....of course, she would not be singing that sorry, sad-assed tune if her baby was the object of some creepy pervert who is 'minor attracted person'.

    2. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

      But KAR swore that the real problem was Catholics and Mormons.

      1. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

        Out of how many teacher’s nation wide?

        1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

          Out of how many Catholic's nation wide? Are there 66 million teachers?

          1. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

            There’s millions.

            135 isn’t very many.

            Church’s cover up most cases so what’s reported is only a fraction of the number of cases. That’s damn sure for Mormons for the reasons I listed below.

            1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

              There’s millions.

              66 million?

              135 isn’t very many.

              It's a fuck of a lot, particularly per year. And a hell of a more than Catholic pedophile scandals.

              Church’s cover up most cases so what’s reported is only a fraction of the number of cases. That’s damn sure for Mormons for the reasons I listed below.

              Oh, nobody knows the truth except you, because papist conspiracies... Fuck off clown.

              1. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

                There’s been thousands of Catholics scandals going back decades.

                This is common knowledge.

                1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                  Thousands huh, going back decades.

                  If we take 135 annually, over three decades, that's 4,050 kids fucked by teachers.

                  Do you have a citation that matches that for the Catholics per capita? Or were you spouting more bullshit again?

                  1. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

                    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases

                    From 2001 to 2010, the Holy See examined sex abuse cases involving about 3,000 priests, some of which dated back fifty years.

                    That’s just the number of priests. These are predators = multiple children.

                    Burn in hell groomer

                    1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                      Shit, 3000 worldwide? We were keeping it to the 66 million American Catholics, but you want to compare it to 1.3 billion?
                      That's a Catholic assault rate of less than 0.0002%, versus 0.135% for 3 million American teachers.

                      You're really not trying here, are you?

                    2. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                      "Burn in hell groomer"

                      Isn't Shrike calling someone else a groomer like ultra hypocrisy or something?

      2. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

        Also we will never know how big a problem this is in the Mormon church.

        Mormon higher ups and police will protect the higher ranking members instead of kids.

        Mormon cops put the church and it’s leaders above all else.

        I’ve known non-Mormons who were sexually assaulted by Mormons and nothing happened because mormons(especially mormon pigs) will always side with the Mormons.

        That’s why Chuck’s dead pig friend was so dangerous.

        Mormons are evil and have proven time and time again they’re too stupid and arrogant to keep their hands to themselves. They’re leaving us decent folk no option but extermination.

        Mormons are evil and you’re evil for supporting them.

        Shame on you!

        1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

          Still less evil than you on a good day.

          1. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

            Thank you!

            That’s a compliment coming from a despicable authoritarian like you.

            1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

              I figured. Hitler didn't get mad about being called racist, Stalin didn't mind being pegged as a commie and you're okay with evil.

              1. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

                I don’t mind because you’re evil. You support the evil Mormon church.

                1. Sevo   3 years ago

                  Eat shit and die, asshole.

                  1. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

                    Wow! You’re on today Sevo! Keep it going!

                2. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                  Haha, I support Mormons. Not the Mormon church, freakshow.
                  I'm no Mormon or Catholic. But most Mormons and Catholics I know are awesome people who've earned my respect.

                  You know who I loathe? Bitter little shitheads like you who spew hate and hold the same ideologies as 14-year-old YouTube atheists.

                  1. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

                    I lived in Utah. I know Mormons better than you. They’re pure scum.

                    I loathe authoritarian dipshits who suck mormon dick.

                    1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                      I thought you said you lived in Georgia, you lying scum. You're so full of bullshit.

                    2. KAR-n evil 9   3 years ago

                      When did I say I lived in Georgia?

                      You’re a compulsive liar.

                      I’d never live in the shithole south

  47. mad.casual   3 years ago

    High school athletes in Albany say they are being suspended for wearing sports bras.

    Pretty brazen going with the almost intentionally and literal 'wet roads cause rain' narrative when you just know the readership is going to click the link and see that, really, the athletic director asked everyone, boys and girls, to put their shirts on and it was the girls who got bitchy about it.

    1. mad.casual   3 years ago

      *grumbles under breath fuckintwo-a-daysinaugustinfullpads workhardfollowtherulesorgetoffthefield*

      1. Sevo   3 years ago

        And I can still remember the smell of sweat mixed with dust from the field.

        1. mad.casual   3 years ago

          I'm being generous. The ones who didn't get up, bale, go to practice, put on pads, practice, take off the pads, bale, and go to bed were the lazy ones.

          At the very least knock off the "Why do I have to wear a shirt*and* only make $0.77 on the dollar?", take off the shirt and bra and earn more than $0.77 on the dollar or GTFO my lawn. And if you think I'm being tough, go find a beach in Normandy to storm.

      2. Nardz   3 years ago

        We couldn't take our helmets off from the moment practice started until it ended

        1. mad.casual   3 years ago

          Broke my friend's collar bone and he asked the coach before he took his helmet off.

    2. Unable2Reason   3 years ago

      The real tragedy is the girls aren't even very attractive.

      1. Dillinger   3 years ago

        dude those were the Miss Albany candidates.

    3. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

      I can safely say that as a high-school student I would absolutely complain about girls putting their shirts on

  48. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

    The athletes, who complied with Chapple’s request, said they believed practicing while wearing sports bras during a stretch of hot weather was appropriate since their male counterparts were allowed to go shirtless.

    If equity means young women get to go around shirtless, that's some social justice I can get behind.

    1. mad.casual   3 years ago

      Their male counterparts were asked to put their shirts on, equally, and did so. The girls bitched.

      As I effectively said above, *checks to make sure in-house Regional CC champ isn't in earshot*... track pussies.

    2. JasonAZ   3 years ago

      Girls WANT to take off their shirts. Why are we arguing here?

      1. mad.casual   3 years ago

        I fully support female athletes taking their shirts off. But I'm pretty sure, despite ENBs abject retardation, that's not what ENBs looking for.

    3. American Mongrel   3 years ago

      If they go mude on top, sounds good. Otherwise, still not equity.

  49. Sevo   3 years ago

    "Sen. Mitt Romney (R–Utah) and several other Republicans are sponsoring legislation to stop the Biden administration from canceling student loan debt."

    When you've lost Romney, well...

  50. Social Justice is neither   3 years ago

    I'll worry about monkeypox-12 because that one is the one that sends the remnants of humanity underground.

    1. Dillinger   3 years ago

      I'll contract it if Madeline Stowe shows up to save me.

    2. JasonAZ   3 years ago

      Well played.

  51. Unicorn Abattoir   3 years ago

    Should you be concerned about monkeypox?

    Only if Fauci gets near it.

    1. mad.casual   3 years ago

      Even then, concerned for your tax dollars, your job, freedom to go out in public, bodily autonomy... no need to nudge the 'concern about death' knob up more than about 0.6% or so.

  52. Ronbback   3 years ago

    concerning the baby formula factory. my question is, from what I gather from the media is that they simply closed the plant down. did they do any more like look for what the problem was or were they busy fixing the problem and why is it taking so long and if it is taking this long to fix how can it magically be restarted at the command of the government. something is not right here, is this a purpose full shut down to creat a rpoblem like Gray Davis did in california when he forced certain energy suppliers to shut down thus creating all the black outs that year so he could attempt to take over the energy sector?

    1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

      Yes.

  53. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

    Should you be concerned about monkeypox?

    No, it wasn’t made in a laboratory.

  54. Its_Not_Inevitable   3 years ago

    If the elephant steps up itself and claims it identifies as a person, then maybe we'll talk.

  55. Entelechy   3 years ago

    "a U.S. federal court held that the descendants of hippos formerly owned by drug kingpin Pablo Escobar could be considered "interested persons" with a legal right to challenge a government order"

    Who has jurisdiction if counsel for the hippos demand Escobar's descendants be remanded into Sudanese custody as persons of interest in a civil reparations suit?

  56. CCP   3 years ago

    Re: elephants in the courtroom:
    1. Clearly, Rule 11 is dead.
    2. The irony here is that the plaintiff is not Happy, it is NhRP. And NhRP is using habeus corpus (a command to produce the body), which is a little odd inasmuch as in supposedly advocating for elephant freedom, they are really just asking to be the substitute slave master.

  57. freedomwriter   3 years ago

    Future humans will look back at how we treat animals with disgust.

  58. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

    Future humans will look back at how we treat animals with gravy and a side of potatoes.

    1. BlackCat13th   3 years ago

      And they'll wish they had this supposed gravy substance or the extinct potatoes you were referring to.

      Beats sucking lichen of rocks yaknow.

      Btw, your opinion of the future looks way too faggoty.

  59. BlackCat13th   3 years ago

    Resurrect the wooly mammoth and i bet you'll find it can talk.

    Yep, we got people working on it. Biotech or extraplanitary faggot colonies. Take your pick. Try both and kiss your asses goodbye

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