Why Background Checks Do Not Stymie Mass Shooters
The vast majority do not have disqualifying records, and "universal" requirements are easily evaded.

A background check did not faze the man charged with murdering 10 people at a Buffalo grocery store on Saturday. The reason for that is straightforward: The shooter passed the background check that was completed when he bought the rifle used in the attack from a federally licensed dealer in Endicott, New York, because he did not have a disqualifying criminal or psychiatric record.
That is typically true of mass shooters. According to a recent National Institute of Justice (NIJ) report on public mass shootings from 1966 through 2019, 77 percent of the perpetrators bought guns legally. In some cases, teenagers or young adults obtained guns from their families. Just 13 percent of mass shooters obtained firearms through illegal transactions. In other words, background checks would have been no obstacle in 87 percent of the cases.
The Biden administration nevertheless "renewed its calls" to "expand national background checks in the wake of the attack in Buffalo," The New York Times reports, "as it has done time and again after mass shootings." Speaking to reporters today during President Joe Biden's trip to Buffalo, White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre said, "We're going to continue to call on Congress to expand background checks." House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D–Calif.) likewise urged "passage of federal legislation to expand gun background checks, which she said was a 'huge priority' for Democrats."
The expansion that Jean-Pierre and Pelosi have in mind would notionally require background checks for all firearm transfers, meaning that anyone trying to sell a gun would have to complete the transaction through a federally licensed dealer. I say "notionally" because massive noncompliance with similar requirements at the state level suggests that a federal law would be widely flouted and impossible to enforce.
A would-be mass murderer with a disqualifying record therefore would not have much trouble finding someone willing to part with one of the country's 450 million or so firearms without bothering to seek out a licensed dealer so a background check could be conducted. And judging from the NIJ's data, only a small minority of perpetrators would need to evade background checks to begin with.
New York is one of the states that require "universal background checks." Even with perfect compliance, such laws cannot possibly make a difference for the vast majority of mass shooters, as illustrated by the Buffalo attack and many other notorious cases. Nor do those laws seem to have an impact on gun homicides in general, a much larger category of crime. A 2019 study found that California's 1991 expansion of background checks "was not associated with a net change in the firearm homicide rate over the ensuing 10 years."
A New York Times story about the NIJ study illustrates the sort of magical thinking that is required to believe that expanding background-check requirements is an effective way to prevent mass shootings. After explaining why background checks do not stymie the perpetrators of such crimes, the Times paraphrases a gun control activist who "said the only way to stop mass killings was to enact strengthened universal federal background checks, to compensate for the wide variation in state and local laws." The problem is not a lack of uniformity; it is the inherent limitations of background-check requirements.
Speaking of magical thinking, Democrats predictably latched onto the Buffalo massacre as a pretext to once again demand a renewed and expanded federal "assault weapon" ban. Never mind that New York has such a law, which demonstrably did not prevent or mitigate this mass shooting. Given the arbitrary distinctions drawn by such bans, they cannot reasonably be expected to have any meaningful effect on such crimes.
According to the NIJ report, 77 percent of the mass shooters used handguns. A quarter of the perpetrators used what the NIJ describes as "assault rifles," a category that is defined based on functionally unimportant characteristics. While a semi-automatic rifle with "military-style" features such as a folding stock, a pistol grip, or a threaded barrel counts as an "assault weapon" in New York, for example, removing those features makes the gun legal, even though it still fires the same ammunition at the same rate with the same muzzle velocity. Even if every gun that politicians classify as an "assault weapon" disappeared tomorrow, mass shooters would have plenty of equally lethal alternatives.
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Why is it that almost all of these shooters are "known to the FBI" and/or have significant past behavioral/legal/mental illnesses that are well documented?
Joe Biden is known to the FBI, and has significant present behavioral/legal/mental illnesses that are well documented, yet here we are.
You want to start locking people up for what they might do?
Nope, but this seems like the kind of thing that might be worth a little harder look than parents that complain to school boards.
You're mad that complaining parents have been investigated, and your solution is more investigations?
Ever heard the expression "two wrongs don't make a right"?
I mean I didn't see Hc laughing over someone facing 50 months for putting feet on desks.
Are you practicing for the Olympic Strawman Killing contest? At this rate you're looking at a gold medal.
This is why conversation with you is impossible. You lead with a lie, so if I want to continue the conversation I have to clarify the lie first. Then you will respond with another lie. It's pointless.
The fact that you pretend comments like this don't exist is proof by itself that you are a piece of shit liar with a personal grudge and no interest in honest conversation.
Why don’t you just leave. Only the Marxist traitors and pedophile enthusiasts are on your side. Maybe you should check into rehab. That would at least get you out of your piss soaked alley.
This guy threatened to shoot up a school graduation. He should have been Red Flagged.
Why is it that ten Black people killed in Buffalo is national news when ten Black people killed in Chicago on a weekly basis never gets a mention.
Race conflict sells news.
There are exceptions but in general.
White person kills white people -> not news
Black person kills black people -> not news
White person kills black people -> news
Black person kills white people -> news.
Black person kills white person is almost never news.
In fact, it's actively ignored.
"Black person kills white people -> news."
If "news" means "report to the extent it seems like we are actually covering it and then pivot immediately and put it in the memory hole in 24 hours"...
then I would agree with you
to HorseConch's question, most past shooters have been known by the FBI and they claim legal reasons for not being able to do anything but more likely they know they will eventually explode and that is to their advantage to further their control. they don't want to prevent violence they need violence.
I guess it wouldn't surprise me at this point if the FBI did what you suggest in some cases. But I think that the legal reasons why they couldn't stop attacks like this are for the most part pretty solid. As long as they avoid making specific threats and avoid other criminal activity, what is anyone going to do? Is the FBI supposed to keep doing surveillance on anyone who talks some crazy shit (or shit the FBI thinks is suspicious) forever? I don't like that idea very much.
But I think that the legal reasons why they couldn't stop attacks like this are for the most part pretty solid.
You say this like we don't know that the FBI spied on a Presidential Candidate using warrants obtained with evidence that the FBI knew to be fabricated. Like we don't know that the FBI was conducting COINTELPRO against MLK. It really is getting to the point where giving the FBI the least bit of credit on just about anything is being disingenuous.
I don't want them violating my or anybody else's civil liberties, but almost every one of these shooters has such outward problematic/criminal behavior that in the past they would have been institutionalized. Instead, we pump them full of drugs, pretend the problem doesn't exist, and ask for more gun control if they kill the right crowd.
‘Pump the full of drugs’
Thank you for bringing that up. Has anyone ever done a deep dove into how many of these shooters were given drugs for anxiety, ADD, etc. from childhood? I suspect it’s almost all of them.
Along with millions and millions of other people who meet the same criteria but don’t commit mass shootings? What could be learned from that? Everyone looks on after the fact and claims it should’ve been easy to see this coming. The reality is that the FBI couldn’t possibly investigate every emotionally troubled person who has exhibited concerning behavior. To bring up the fact that there were prior concerning reports about the kid without also including how many total concerning reports are received on a regular basis is disingenuous at best. Was it incompetence or laziness that explains why there was no follow-up, or has the “see something, say something” era created a needle in a haystack problem that cannot be solved in a manner that respects civil liberties? Kind of an important distinction in my view.
You'd be correct, zeb, if the FBI allowed "legal reasons" to stop them from violating people's rights and breaking laws to advance Party goals routinely.
As it stands, you're just running cover for totalitarianism.
FBI is great at "foiling" attacks at the critical moment, but only when they've created the plan and set the timeline themselves.
On top of that, the Buffalo nutjob had threatened to shoot up a school graduation or other event, and New York did nothing with their Red Flag law, which is another law the anti-gun people like to strut about. Between New York's Red Flag law and the Federal prohibition on those convicted of domestic violence buying or possessing firearms, neither the Buffalo nor Parkland, FL shooters would have been able to purchse their firearms, but, laws on the books are not enforced.
Once again, democrats failed to use existing resources that could have presented this, but want to impose more restrictions on all the responsible law abiding people.
Because they are crazy?
What did you think? That a normal person just one day decided, “Hey, it’s Tuesday. Why don’t I shoot a bunch of people and myself?”
Good question. Another good question is why do these always happen in election years? Does that seem coincidental? How do the politicians always have responses and media coverage ready? Sometimes I think we are IRL on set of Wag The Dog movie. It all seems repetitive and scripted. Like they knew it was coming. Are we pawns in a Matrix? Has Hollywood and the news merged together? I would not put it past them. Maybe, just maybe, the news is produced to sway public opinion?
A conspiracy theorist might wonder if the perps were goaded into their actions, if not downright forced to, by the "authorities". The FBI might have stepped up from kidnapping governors to mass shootings to justify their own existence and their bosses' fantasies of power.
To see if these laws are an infringement or not, may I propose that no one be allowed to have any social media account other than in their own true name, and for simplicity, the most restrictive requirements for firearm possession be the requirement for a license to have a social media account.
The same licensing requirement would apply to anyone professing to be a "journalist"; they could not publish in print, audio, video, or electronically without the permit.
This all makes perfect sense.
I mean, every place with restrictions like these is a venerable paradise. So obviously once the restrictions are in place they'll stay in place, regardless of your experiment. You know, because we cannot be safe without being watched closely. It's for our own good. You'll know because the media will tell you so.
Meh, just another "will not comply" situation.
Oh sweet, did Biden finally go and visit the families of that Waukesha massacre?
What massacre? I heard about a tragic incident that occurred and the disproportionate impact it had on the POC in the community, but no massacre.
The one where an SUV encountered some pedestrians, or some other passive voiced, non-personal, non-inflammatory descriptor.
Some SUV’s did some things.
That unfortunate incident was back paged about a week after it happened.
*a day
...besides only old white people were killed.
They were saved from the certain death of Covid.
They were likely counted as COVID deaths anyway.
Or the one in Sacramento? Or Milwaukee (somehow that was three separate "mass shootings" including one that somehow only created one injury)?
What about any of the multitude of "mass shootings" that happen in South Chicago in any given month?
Why do they only count gang-related killing as "mass shootings" when they want to claim they're a daily occurance? Does it have something to do with the desire to push a narriateve that the "typical" mass shooter is a white supremecist using an "assault weapon"?
My Marlin 60, tube fed .22 that can hold 17 rounds, was considered to be an assault weapon in 1984 so they changed the design to have a smaller capacity. I'm pretty sure my plinker would still be illegal in NY, CT, CA and a host of other states.
I'm just happy this mass murderer didn't use a more effective weapon like an easily dispersed spike protein contained in an aerosol.
*golf clap*
There is a lot of "magical thinking" on this [as well as other] subject, but the play book of progressives is progressive incrementalism. You cannot move onto universal registration until you have a requirement for universal background checks; until every gun and owner is thoroughly documented, universal background checks will be an unenforceable non starter. It will then be "we've done this, but we need to do more."
Or a FJB put it after the Newtown shooting, in response to criticisms of not doing enough, "this is just the beginning."
One thing progressives are good at is the long game. Their religious faith in government knows no bounds, and they don't care if they never see their utopia in their lifetime. But because they worship a government of men who seek power, as opposed to an invisible man who comes with texts full of common sense, they pave the road to hell with their good intentions.
And before anyone whines about how religion has killed more people than anything else, take a hard look at the 20th century. The number of people killed by their own fucking governments in the name of equality during the decades of communism is comparable to the entire population of Europe a mere four centuries earlier.
Stalin was not killing people in the name of equality.
What does communism promise? Yeah. Equality. Fuck off.
+1
Yeah sarcasmic, we're all the same. No doubt.
A religious-like faith in government is a hallmark of progressivism. Whereas a natural distrust in government is the hallmark of being an American. Progressives reject the founding principles of limited government because they see government as the solution, not the problem, and they want to undo the American experiment in limited self government.
Oh, and fuck off.
No, you fucks are worse than religious nut jobs.
Even fundamental Islam retains some small amount of empathy for other people. Not Marxism.
Why don't we just pass a law making mass shootings illegal?
The simple solutions are best.
I'd ask you to post the picture of Joe and Jill leaving for Waukesha, but no such photo exists.
"Unlike Gendron, who allegedly posted a manifesto citing the white nationalist, far-right conspiracy theory of the "Great Replacement" as motivating his actions, Brooks never mentioned the motives behind his attack on the Christmas parade crowd.
At the time, Biden spoke publicly about the tragedy, condemning the attack as a "horrific act of violence" and expressing his solidarity with the grieving families of the victims. In December, the first lady traveled to Wisconsin to comfort the families of November's victims, but the president never officially visited the site of the tragedy."
So, thank you for confirming, "no such photo exists".
I can also confirm you're deranged paranoid with racist tendencies. I'm a white man who was sickened by the Waukesha incident but did not somehow translate that into resentment toward a visit by the president to Buffalo, where a blatant racist attack was committed involving 11 murders.
By the way, the Buffalo shooter had the name of one of the Waukesha victims on his rifle, so he apparently thinks like you do.
Skin color is the most important thing
You can do no such thing you racist piece of shit.
Nothing is more racist than a socialist democrat.
"Brooks never mentioned the motives behind his attack on the Christmas parade crowd"
He had many social media posts and shitty rap songs he wrote. Open BLM supporter, who rapped about attacking "white people"
Imagine, just for a second, any attack by a white man on 10 black people, who had a history of writing rap songs saying "blacks, you bout to get it" and tell me this wouldnt be page 1 on every MSM site
Get fucked, we have the receipts.
Don't need to imagine it at all, since the mass shooting we are discussing that's almost exactly what happened. It's based on his posts that the media is labeling this a right wing racist extremist attack. Just like how they ignored Brooks' posts to state the motive was unclear.
And the subway shooter's posts, when they stated his motives were unclear.
" rapped about attacking "white people"
Link please. He rapped the usual rap bullshit about selling drugs, killing cops, and who knows what else. Show me the "white people" stuff please or a statement about what he was trying to do.
"The new charges, filed on Wednesday, include 61 counts of first degree recklessly endangering safety with a dangerous weapon, six counts of committing a hit and run causing a death, two felony charges of bail jumping and two counts of domestic abuse."
No terrorism or hate charges. Previously police thought he was fleeing a domestic disturbance and thought he was being chased.
As per the discussion yesterday, the referenced NIJ study defined a mass public shooting as “any event in which four or more persons, not including the assailant(s), were killed by gunfire in a public setting within a 24-hour period, absent any associated criminal activity (such as robbery, gang conflict, or illicit drug trade).”
That seems a reasonable definition to me and as sarcasmic thought and I didn't, most were accomplished with handguns. There is no breakdown based on how many killed, though I am guessing the worst in terms of number of victims - and certainly those in recent memory - were accomplished with "assault rifles".
As per the characteristics of "assault rifles", this column accurately states:
"While a rifle with "military-style" features such as a folding stock, a pistol grip, or a threaded barrel counts as an "assault weapon" in New York, for example, removing those features makes the gun legal, even though it still fires the same ammunition at the same rate with the same muzzle velocity."
The keys for maximum lethality is "muzzle velocity" and -unmentioned - semi-automatic, compactness, size of magazine, and low recoil, a feature of small caliber high velocity rounds.
"While a rifle with "military-style" features such as a folding stock, a pistol grip, or a threaded barrel counts as an "assault weapon" in New York, for example, removing those features makes the gun legal, even though it still fires the same ammunition at the same rate with the same muzzle velocity."
Woo hoo! You just learned that "assault rifle" is a weasel term that serves no purpose other than to gin up fear in the ignorant!
You've taken your first step!
Congrats!
No sarcasm.
Now if we can all agree on more terminology then perhaps you can have a conversation with us gun nuts without everyone talking past one another.
How about “gun owners” instead of “gun nuts”?
Gun nuts don't consider gun nut to be a pejorative.
Read my 1st post on this yesterday dipshit. I specifically said that both gun nuts and gun control enthusiasts avoided the real issues with "assault rifles" which make them deadly while talking about appearances.
You apparently just grasped that it is a weasel term but still prefer to avoid the real issues.
Yes, but you were wrong.
Here I am trying to be civil and you have to call me names. Fuck off.
Condescension - especially from the guy having trouble keeping up, who then falls back on stupid stereotypes - is not civil.
I'm trying to get all of us on the same page with terminology and definitions. It's difficult to communicate when you say something and it has a completely different meaning to you compared to the person you're talking with.
No, you're not. Your carrying soldiers baggage and despite the many times I said essentially what my 1st post above said last night including at the beginning, you act like it's news. I don;t have the patience. This is not a hard subject unless you want to get in the weeds with soldier about his preferences for playing cops and robbers or whatever other kick he gets out of obsessing over guns.
Me and soldier and most gun folk use the same dictionary. You don't. I'm trying to get us all using the same dictionary.
This isn't personal. At least not to me. I'm trying to facilitate communication so we can have a debate without people saying "you're a liar!" because the other person is using a different dictionary.
It would be nice, I've tried to debate Joe honestly multiple times on multiple subjects. He is so convinced of his own infallibility that he refuses to even consider even cited evidence that demonstrates he is mistaken. I don't think he wants to have an honest debate. He wants to browbeat people into his camp, and is unwilling to consider data or viewpoints that oppose his preferred narrative. I don't mean this as an attack. Because I really did try for a long time to have a meaningful discussion with Joe, before I gave it up as fruitless. He always reverts back to his original talking point even in response to data that contradicts his original point. You will answer him one post and he will make the same point again later and imply you didn't answer him. And that you can't back up your point. He will completely ignore half of your post, and pick out one phrase, often misrepresenting it, to attack you personally. And he has such a narcissistic superiority complex (from my reading one that is hardly supported by any evidence) regarding his intellectual ability, that he looks down his nose at anyone who disagrees with him as being uneducated or lacking intellectual acuity.
I've known people who you can persuade for a day, but upon returning from the hive they're back where they were before. That sucks. People like that are really boring.
Hand me a hanky please.
Poor poor soldier. All he ever does is give and give and try to learn from others but they just abuse his good nature and humble, sharing personality.
Fuck you
The latter portion is particularly amusing, given the stunning level of ignorance combined with the breathtaking stupidity evident each time it writes something. Equally funny that the left-leaning and progressive sociopolitical group have attempted to tar conservatives and libertarians as cultiish when the former group's behavior mirrors the most rigid of the devoutly religious.
When you say assault rifle you're thinking of a semi-automatic AR shooting a puny little 5.56, while I'm thinking of a Sturmgewehr 44 shooting 7.92×33mm Kurz in full auto.
fuck
Why should robbery, gang shootings and illicit drug trade fatalities be excluded?
i think the intention is to remove the career criminals who even gun control advocates are not delusional enough to think will bother following other laws like background check.
the truth is that the bulk of gun deaths are not preventable by any law, because they are committed by people already able to bypass the law to get a gun.... many of them are already felons. (these people tend not to start with murder.) they also don't get the public notice that the nut jobs do.
The bulk of gun deaths are suicides.
You know, if we pass a law making suicide by gun a capital offense that is immediately punishable by death, we could completely eliminate those deaths. Heck, add in a $100M fine for each such criminal use of firearms, that'll really get them thinking.
Still harping on "muzzle velocity." Force = mass X acceleration or N = m/s squared, Newton's Second Law. In this case we are dealing with how much energy is put on target, or muzzle energy, mass X velocity squared; the 5.56/.223 has no distinguishing characteristics in this regard over many other calibers; it just happens to be most frequently found in the AR platform.
Yes speed matters, but simple "muzzle velocity" is not a factor in and of itself. A solid bullet shot at a high speed may simply punch a clean hole in you, and may or may not kill you. A slower pistol bullet that is a hollow point can do a lot more damage than a high velocity rifle bullet. It has to do with the energy on target but also what the projectile is designed to do ; does it expand and create a more devastating wound channel, or does it fragment and splinter off into more areas of your body?
During the American Civil War very large solid projectiles [.58 caliber/ 250 gr] were shot at fairly low velocities of around 1500 fps, and inflicted horrible damage and often shattered bones, which resulted in so much bodily damage and amputations.
And as for the 5.56, I would [if I had to] take a hit from one of those [average 1300 ft. pounds] while wearing body armor over a .308 [2700] or 30/06 [2750] , as there is a lot more energy produced by those calibers. The 300 win. Mag produces over 3500 ft. pounds and the .338 Lapua comes in around 4900.
The .223/5.56 is not a super caliber by virtue of its size [50-80 grain projectiles] nor it's velocity, no matter what several trauma surgeons may think about it.
I trust surgeons to know surgery, and gun nuts to know guns. I don't trust a gun nut to do surgery, nor do I don't trust a surgeon help me decide which gun is best for a given job.
don'tYour failure is not understanding these are not mutually exclusive categories and the doc experts I quoted included vets with tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. We don't know the hobbies of any of them.
Fair enough, but you're still appealing to authority and telling people that their own eyes have been deceiving them. It isn't persuasive.
The other dimension as well. The surgeon who looks at the patient and says "That's a .223 caliber wound, nothing I can do to fix it. .22 lr, 9mm, .45 ACP or even .357 or 44 I could fix, but not .223 or above." should lose his license to practice medicine and the gun nut who can teach you to sew your fingers back on after you shoot them off probably isn't the best guy to have instructing the firearm safety course.
You might be surprised. I know a local oncologist who has a very impressive firearms collection. He is also well trained and practiced.
I know the terminology and repeatedly sought to clarify it while soldier sought to obfuscate with irrelevant and wrong details - no soldier, "velocity" does not lessen "damage", it increases it by it's square - about deer hunting and weapons no one uses for mass murders. You cheered him on.
kinetic energy = mass/2 * V squared
You are still oversimplifying. Energy transferred to the target. A FMJ spitzer rifle bullet might go clean through and exit with a lot of its energy remaining. A slower, flatter tipped, heavier pistol round, even with less muzzle energy, will often transfer more energy to the target.
But this really isn't terribly relevant. The Virginia Tech shooter used a .22 pistol for much of his rampage. .223 rifles aren't some special enabler of mass shooting.
More people are killed by .22lr than any other round.
It's not worth it, he will keep just referring to 10+ doctors who wrote an op-ed calling for gun control, while denying decades of combat data and reports from the US Army and Marine Corps about the effectiveness of the 5.56 mm. He is impressed by 3000+ fps and convinced that is all you need to know. It's not even an especially fast round and is easily outclassed, even by other .224 caliber cartridges and smaller, the .220 swift, the .22-250 and the .204 Ruger all outclass that by 1000+ fps, as do a wide variety of common center fire larger calibers. He oversimplifies the argument based upon his complete lack of understanding of the subject (which he even admits to) and tells those of us who know far more about the subject that we are idiots because we correct his misapprehension and correctly state that velocity and even energy is not the entire story. The thing is he is so impressed by pretty much standard velocity for a center fire cartridge that he refuses to learn anything that contradicts his bias. He has a single source that he has decided is the final word, and refuses to understand the shortcomings of his source. He will just keep reposting the same thing when you show him the shortcomings. He does this on every subject. It's really not worth the effort as he is convinced of his own infallibility that he refuses to change his debate or adapt to new, contradictory information. This is actually a sign of someone who is pretty unsophisticated and unscientific in their approach, it's sophomoric and intellectually disingenuous. Yet he implies we are the fools, who actually have real working knowledge and have studied the subject at length. His PhD from Google trumps actual knowledge and understanding of the subject matter. It's very typical of those who have credentials but aren't actually educated or wise.
he will keep just referring to 10+ doctors who wrote an op-ed calling for gun control
Yeah. He's basically decided that surgeons know more about guns than people who actually own and shoot them.
What would he think if gun nuts started lecturing surgeons about sewing up wounds?
Several of my docs were vets with time in Iraq and Afghanistan doofus.
"What would he think if gun nuts started lecturing surgeons about sewing up wounds?"
That's exactly what you and soldier are trying to do.
No. We are pointing out that velocity is only a part of the picture. Yes it is important. But big, slow rounds can do more damage. Hydrostatic shock is still being debated. You're not wrong, but you're not right either. You've got tunnel vision. Take off your blinders and listen to what other people have to say rather than trying to be the teacher.
"Fuck off"
You're right wing gun nuts who would sell their mother before admitting we have a problem with guns in America. I'm not interested in your pettifogging.
Guns aren't the problem.
Other than suicide, which isn't a gun problem, the biggest driver of "gun violence" in this country is the lucrative drug trade. People making fat stacks slinging drugs can't use courts to resolve disputes like legal businesses. So they use guns.
Death by bullet is a symptom, and guns are not the cause.
Our biggest problem is the democrat party. Which drives huge spikes in violent crime, You also create poverty and scarcity wherever you govern. Which makes people desperate.
This from the guy who posted the following last night:
I posted:
"As a matter of physics, damage from a moving object increases directly with it's mass, but is squared when it's speed is increased."
He responded:
soldiermedic76
May.16.2022 at 6:11 pm
Flag Comment Mute User
"That's the equation for force, you idiot. The equation for work is mass times velocity. When you are talking damage from a round you are talking work/energy you fuckhead. You don't understand physics obviously.
Force is the force which a round hits you at, the damage is from the energy, which is 1/2MV^2. You never see a cartridge force listed, but you always see it's energy listed. Damage is the energy of the bullet. Actually, the higher the force, the less damage it does, because it doesn't transfer energy."
Say what? He repeats the formula I laid out, describes it as "the energy" then says "Damage is the energy of the bullet. Actually, the higher the force, the less damage it does, because it doesn't transfer energy."
Really? Tell us more!
Elsewhere I quoted with links an analysis of the relative velocity of rounds and resultant damage by criminal and scientific experts and then statements from many ER docs about the extreme damage to humans they saw from "assault rifles" compared to handguns or anything else that was more standard fare in the ERs. Several of them were vets with tour of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Sodlier's problem is he immediately personalizes discussions and begins insulting the other person, then doubles down into multi paragraph posts of dense, picayune, and irrelevant details that help him muddy the issue until can't hear anyone else.
You can believe him and his confused ramblings or my credentialed experts. You don't have to be one to understand them.
You can believe him and his confused ramblings or my credentialed experts.
Welcome to the wonderful world of libertarians. We are a distrustful lot who associate "credentialed experts" with "someone payed good money to wear a white coat on the witness stand and say what they're being paid to say."
We prefer to trust our lying eyes over someone with a political agenda.
You're appealing to the authority of credentialed experts furthering a political agenda.
Libertarians don't give a flying fuck about that.
And my ramblings aren't confused. And his credential experts are also pushing a partisan point, not giving scientific evidence and it is contradicted by my credential experts who have far more experience than his experts. 57 years of combat data vs 10 ER doctors, which is more authorities? When you appeal to authority you must make sure your authority is unimpeachable. I'm going to go with the Department of the Army and Navy as having greater expertise on this subject (Marine Corps belongs to the Department of the Navy if Joe is confused by this).
His counter argument is that his credentialed experts saw combat.
Yeah gang bang drive by is combat... Considering most are using .22 LR and .25 ACP at near maximum effective range, compared to literally 57 years of data from combat in almost any environment imaginable, fifteen active engagements in that time period, with literally millions of casualties, compared to an ER doctor who might see 100 casualties from small caliber pistols in a year (if they work in the worst neighborhoods). I know who probably has more expertise, especially considering all that trauma medicine those ER doctors were taught was pioneered by the Army and Navy since 1795. Yeah, I know which one has more authority.
He specifically mentioned Iraq and Afghanistan.
Okay, so some saw combat casualties from two of the newest engagements, which primarily involved military class small arms and which the vast majority of casualties were actually the result of IEDs. He also then ignored the well documented failures of the 5.56 mm in those engagements, specifically their inability to transfer energy, resulting in pass through wounds that failed to incapacitate the target, because the round was to small and light, thus both the Marine Corps and Army began arming troops with battle rifles chambered in the 7.62 mm cartridge, at least one per squad, to make up for multiple deficiencies of the 5.56 mm. He also ignored that the Army and Marine Corp redesigned the bullet of the 5.56mm used at least twice to try and compensate for the deficiencies of the 5.56mm cartridge. Or the fact that troops reported having to hit a target three to five times on average to incapacitate them, that SOP went from one shot, one kill, to double tap at a minimum, and then head shot to keep them down. So, he is cherry picking his data and ignoring all the facts even from the engagements he actually addressed, just like he does below with the militia act of 1795. Okay, we're on the same page.
Or the fact that troops reported having to hit a target three to five times on average to incapacitate them, that SOP went from one shot, one kill, to double tap at a minimum, and then head shot to keep them down.
I didn't know that.
So, he is cherry picking his data...
As I see it he's deferring to experts, and he does not consider you to be one. So he has nothing to learn from you. Which sucks for him.
The data is widely available. It is in any gun magazine, the military reports are all public information. The book Blackhawk Down also covers this same thing occurring in the Battle of Mogadishu. It's also covered in multiple non fiction books from Vietnam. So, yeah he may reject me as an expert, but he also is rejecting decades of data. Actually centuries of data because the fast and small, vs the large and slow is a debate that dates back to about the same time firearms were becoming common in Europe.
Interesting early guns used arrows fitted with bronze fletching, but found lead balls worked better. So projectile shape and size and how it impacts performance also dates from the emergence of firearms in Europe.
Napoleon rejected rifles for infantry use, even light infantry, because they were smaller and faster and he felt the heavier, slower muskets were more lethal. Also, muskets were quicker to load and required less training to utilize. The British utilized regiments of specialized rifleman in the role of skirmishers.
I think he is making a very narrow argument that contains some grains of truth. For example a 5.56 will impart more hydrostatic shock than a .22lr, yet the projectiles are relatively similar in diameter and weight. The major difference is velocity. So if we simply compare the same pellet travelling at different speeds, the speedier it is the more damage it will likely do.
On paper it makes sense. It's not a hill I would choose to die on.
When you compare 5.56 to .22 then yeah, an AR is scary. Start comparing it to other rounds and not so much.
Maybe that's where his mind is stuck.
I can agree to your assessment, however, you, me and several others have pointed out multiple times at length why his analysis is simplistic and thus wrong. The fact that he labels us idiots demonstrates an inability to learn or even accept new information. His reliance on an op-ed as authoritive, also demonstrates an inability to critical assess the validity of a citation and it's strength and weaknesses.
The fact that he labels us idiots demonstrates an inability to learn or even accept new information.
He can learn and accept information. Just not from us rubes. If the source is endorsed and certified and a member of his political party, then I'm sure he can suck up information like a sponge. He's not stupid. He can learn. He's just chosen not to learn from us.
S The smaller rounds certainly lack the stopping power to put a target on it’s ass when charging. Part of why I went with a .40 caliber pistol instead of a 9mm.
Translation:
Libertarians are ignorant fucks who won't be dissuaded by facts.
I doubt most libertarians would agree with that, but hey, you run with it.
Now you're making it personal, which tells me you lost the argument. I'm trying to not do that.
Yeah, he accuses us of ignoring facts... Rather ironic.
What you call "fact" he calls "anecdote."
Except the Army and Marine Corp has all compiled these in multiple reports.
And most are declassified especially the ones from Vietnam to the end of the 20th century for anyone to read.
No faggoty, libertarians don’t trust pablum puckers (like you) and don’t trust the expert shills you put up to advance your propaganda.
i clearly missed a lively earlier discussion, but i sense a very important fact that your "experts" may have overlooked.......
"assault rifle" has absolutely nothing to do with any of the nonsense you seem to be trying to nit pick on. caliber, velocity, mass...... not a single one of those things has anything at all to do with the definition of an assault rifle. "assault rifle" is a definition invented by gun control advocates that is based on features that do not change any of those things. any expert who tried to make claims based on assault rifles versus pistol rounds is either being intentionally dishonest, (i think i saw someone else explain this as the person paid to sit on a witness stand to sell the narrative) or they have no idea WTF they are talking about. they revealed their lack of qualifications the second they put the word "assault" in there.
He also ignores the difference in range. Rifles are better at distant targets, due to their longer barrel specifically, and generally smaller, lighter round with more powder behind it. Pistols are better suited for close range, as you want a larger diameter, heavier bullet to deliver maximum energy transfer. But their short barrels and small powder charge makes them much less effective at range. He is hyper focused on velocity and muzzle energy, without understanding the importance of bullet diameter, weight, shape, composition, jacket, powder, primer, case length, barrel length, etc that makes this a far more complicated topic than what he believes it is. Also, he doesn't understand that printed velocities are test data based upon certain specifications and not universal. A .44 magnum out of a 6 inch barrel will have lower velocity and muzzle energy than out of a 24 inch rifle barrel (like in some lever rifles and semi-automatic rifles, Ruger makes a semi auto carbine in .44 magnum). Interestingly, the Ruger .44 carbine is based on the old M-1 carbine, but with a tubular magazine. I now want one for my truck.
true. there is also the issue of maneuverability and control-ability and conceal-ability. a rifle is harder to get to a shooting sight unnoticed, and easier for someone to grab once you are there.
my point is mainly that there is no such thing as an assault rifle round. i have a 9mm that meets the definition of an assault rifle in some states. any "expert" who even uses the term is either extremely dishonest or extremely uneducated.
Why does most every measure of the stopping power of a round refer to foot-pounds?
Either you are onto something that gun people have been missing for over a century, or you're barking up the wrong tree.
What you are saying is true when we're talking about penetrating armor. Yeah, they use kinetic rounds. I think we can all agree on that. But humans aren't tanks.
In fact the Army blames the use of armor piercing rounds for the decrease in lethality that occurred during the Battle of Mogadishu. Armor piercing rounds punched straight through creating very little wound cavitation and a very small wound channel, often failing to even slow the target. I mean it's fairly common debate, large and slow vs fast and small. In the dense woods of the East Coast and upper Midwest large and slow is preferred for hunting because they transfer maximum energy to their targets, dropping their target. On the plains we prefer fast and small or medium rounds, because we are going for range and accuracy. If velocity was all that mattered, everyone would hunt with something like the 6.5 creedmore for all game animals.
But Joe doesn't understand how hunting knowledge plays into this debate. He thinks it's a non-sequitor to bring up hunting cartridges.
Which is kind of odd. Sure hunters aren't surgeons, but they see first hand what their rounds do. You don't hunt white tails with 5.56 because you may not kill it with one shot, but you don't use a 30-06 because you don't want to destroy the meat.
Why pay so much respect to anonymous surgeons while dismissing hunters?
I'm starting to think it's political. The surgeons are mostly progressives, while most hunters are not. So he's listening to his tribe while ignoring the other.
Only one quibble, with the correct load, an 06 is not unsuitable for deer, especially the large body deer we have out west.
I said white tail specifically because they're small. But yeah I think we're in agreement.
Have you seen a Missouri WhiteTail here in Montana? Bucks often push 250 pounds. Columbia White tail reach over 200+ pounds. That's why I said western deer. I've seen Eastern Whitetails and agree most 06 loads would be a bit heavy, but a lot of guys like the .45-70 and .30-30 for those because heavy and slow produces quick kills, while fast and medium cartridges don't at the range they are shooting. Which just adds to my point about the difference and why muzzle velocity and even muzzle energy isn't the end all consideration.
I thought white tail meant a specific species of a specific size. Small.
Pardon my ignorance.
No white tail is a species with several subspecies, that inhabit differing habitat from Canada to Argentina and Chile, not counting introduced species world wide, and from the Atlantic to the Pacific. I think there are even some subspecies in the Caribbean and Bermuda but not sure about that.
It's all good just providing information. I've hunted whitetail in multiple states, and been stationed in multiple states, so I have some knowledge that I just thought I'd share.
If you really want to be confused, see the difference between mule deer and blacktail. Some biologists place them in the same species while others state mule deer are a separate species descended from blacktail and in some states mule deer and blacktail habitat overlaps making it even more confusing.
so I have some knowledge that I just thought I'd share.
Comment on an article about background checks and end up learning about deer. Good day. That's why I still participate in this stupid forum.
I remember the days when Nietzsche and Smith and Clauseschwitz and others would be often discussed and quoted in the comment section.
I mostly paid attention to talk about the ideas of economists like Bastiat, Hayek, Friedman, Sowell, Williams and so on. Good times.
I say "they" referring to hunters because this year is my first year with a license, though I haven't found a mentor yet.
He did no such thing.
kinetic energy = mass/2 * V squared
ABSOLUTELY FUCKING WRONG
it's KE = (mv^2) / 2
Want to know why?
1. Take the formula for momentum - p=mv
2. Solve the indefinite integral in terms of v to get KE
m is a constant. It is unchanged.
The integral of v is (v^2) /2
The half is correctly attributed to velocity, not mass.
You get the same result Unicorn.
(mv^2)/2 = m/2*v^2
solve for m=2 & v=3
2(3^2)/2 = 9 = 2/2*(3^2)
see what you get: 9
The half is the result of the indefinite integral of velocity. It is properly associated with v, regardless of commutation.
Open a calc textbook..
The two equations are mathematically the same. The integral of mv/dv is mv^2/2. You can then use the commutative property of multiplication the reorder the factors from m * v^2 * 1/2 to m * 1/2 * v^2. There is no significance to the fact that the integration produced the 1/2. If someone rearranged the equation to highlight the fact that the energy varies with the square of the velocity, that’s fair, it’s just not the end of the story.
What an idiotic approach. Sure. It's right there in the 2nd Amendment. The right to bear arms, with muzzle velocity less than what Joe Friday says is allowable, shall not be infringed. Fucking asinine.
Waukesha literally a million miles farther from White House than Buffalo
Have you noticed that the article does not propose even one solution? It merely tells what won't work. That is typical gunner talk.
The only solution is a long term one. It involves:
1. Reading the FULL 2nd Amendment, including the opening phrases.
2. Outlawing private ownership of guns (yah, yah, I know. Hunters gotta kill things)
3. Mandatory additional 20 years for ANY crime in which a gun is involved.
4. Mandatory life sentence for any crime in which the victim dies.
Or: At least make it as hard to get a gun as an abortion (Are you right-to-lifers listening)?
You're a funny guy.
Nah, just a clump of cancer cells asking to be aborted
The first part of the sentence doesn't discount the second part, because by law all males 17-45 are already part of the militia. The militia was always an armed populace that could be raised in times of emergency and provided their own arms. It wasn't historically the National Guard (which wasn't officially created until the 20th century). Even after the creation of the national guard, the citizens still belong to the militia by law. Additionally, the word regulated didn't mean government regulated in the 18th century regulated meant in good working order, well armed, etc. So even if we ignore that the 2A was not meant solely for militia use, that that was simply am example, and separate from the declaration second phrase, ownership of guns would still be possible under the 2A. Additionally, not only would it be allowed but almost compulsory.
Bullshit.
From the Constitution:
Article I, Section 8
Clause 15
Clause 15. The Congress shall have Power * * * To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.
Clause 16
Clause 16. The Congress shall have Power * * * To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress.
Further, by laws still on the books and passed soon after:
The states as well as Congress may prescribe penalties for failure to obey the President's call of the militia. They also have a concurrent power to aid the National Government by calls under their own authority, and in emergencies may use the militia to put down armed insurrection.1 The Federal Government may call out the militia in case of civil war; its authority to suppress rebellion is found in the power to suppress insurrection and to carry on war.2 The act of February 28, 1795,3 which delegated to the President the power to call out the militia, was held constitutional.4 A militiaman who refused to obey such a call was not employed in the service of the United States so as to be subject to the article of war, but was liable to be tried for disobedience of the act of 1795.5
Read the militia act of 1793 and subsequent ones you fucking idiot. Your quotes don't discount what the militia was. Fuck you are stupid. You copy and paste but don't understand what you post. Also, you seem not to be aware of the multiple militia acts created by Congress using the powers you fucking just posted about that says exactly what I posted. Fuck. Why do you bother when you are always wrong?
Joey doesn’t understand anything other than what is in the talking points email he gets daily from whatever Marxist org he jacks off to. Anything outside of that requires the ability to understand things. Joey lacks any significant cognitive ability, so that will not happen.
You wrote above:
"Additionally, the word regulated didn't mean government regulated in the 18th century regulated meant in good working order, well armed, etc.."
The constitution says:
Clause 16. The Congress shall have Power * * * To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress.
You even quoted the Militia act of 1795 but I see you missed the important clause as to who is the militia. Which is exactly who I stated it was under the militia act of 1795 and previous ones and subsequent ones.
Here is the pertinent wording from the militia act of 1792, and was included in the militia act of 1795 and 1862
each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside ...
In 1862 it was amended to include free blacks. Fuck you actually quoted the law that states exactly what I said trying to disprove me. Fuck you're stupid.
The 2A didn’t grant the right to gun ownership, it merely affirms it. So it doesn’t matter how you read it. The federal government lacks the delegated power to regulate or restrict guns.
As for your proposed penalties, this would disproportionately incarcerate even more blacks. Is that what you want?
Conversely, should we required government background checks and permission to get an abortion?
10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes
(a)The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b)The classes of the militia are—
(1)the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2)the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
When someone decides to commit mass murder, isn't this primarily a moral failure? Is there a worse example of immorality? So shouldn't we be talking about moral solutions to a moral problem?
I agree leftshot and the increase in these type shootings in America over the last 50 years as documented by the NIJ study is troubling. How we get control over this unfortunate development is a serious problem, if we can. A similar stat - violent crime - had been going down in very significant numbers since the 70s, but is going up again. I don't think we actually know why, and so seeking solutions is likely less promising than seeking ways to cap or curb it.
The reason crime and terrorism are going up are pretty obvious: subsidizing single parenthood, teaching kids racism in school and encouraging ghetto culture. Democrats and progressives are the ones doing it.
100%.
Single parenting going up is not a recent event and violent crime has until very recently been going down.
It took you democrats awhile. Now you’ve royally fucked us.
"universal background checks" for private gun sales would likely save about as many lives as requiring a prescription to purchase heroin or meth would.
How do you force 3rd party involvement into a one-on-one transaction if both participants choose not to abide by whatever the law might be?
It seems the idea is if there us not enough evidence to orove a street thug guilty of a mugging, or a gangbanger guilty of a drive-by, they could nevertheless be proven guilty of obtaining a firearm without a background check. By doing thst, it stifles their ability to commit crimes against people.
It does not.
I wonder how many people are truly stupid enough to believe this shit. There are way more than there should be. I'm sure the guys committing all the gun violence will quit being murderers when we can convict them of buying their guns off the nice guy down the street that doesn't do a background check on them. These are the same morons that believe the earth is about to become uninhabitable.
Indeed.
Reality undermines the argument.
Criminals don't pay attention to laws, hence the reason they are criminals!
Yeah, it works so well with drugs.
Anyone who would need to bypass a universal background check is already prohibited from owning a firearm. Which means they're already able to be arrested on a felon in possession charge.
Which makes this law fucking useless. It's redundant at best.
With as much of the black market that's made up of guns stolen from legit buyers, the serial number is all that's needed to find out that a gun in that situation isn't legally possessed by whoever since the number would be on file as a weapon that's been reported stolen. If there's no serial number, that in itself is already a crime (the law allows for people to build their own guns, but requires those who do to then obtain a serial number from certain agencies of the government).
Not to mention that for any "universal background check" system to actually work, they'd need to have 100% registration of all privately owned firearms; getting 100% compliance with any demand from the government for owners of the tens of millions of currently unregistered guns (most "long guns" and handguns which have been owned/in a family since before sometime in the 1990s) is something that there's no reason to expect is possible, and trying to force such compliance will likely result in a huge wave of reported "boating accidents".
So many gang members have criminal records that their possession of any firearm tends to be criminal anyway. There's no need for another generally unenforceable law to redundantly criminalize that aspect.
Part of the problem is that background checks need to be more invasive.
A friend of mine wanted to carry a firearm openly, in a holster, because he was confined to a wheelchair, which made him an easy target. Also, a few houses in his neighborhood had been broken into, in the day, often while one or more residents were home.
Here's the problem. First, he had MS and had shakey hands. Second, he was bi-polar. His medication options for the bi-polar issue were limited, due to his MS medications. So, he could get more than just mad, if he lost his temper.
Despite that, his background check was approved.
When his wife found out, she said that if he bought the gun, she would leave him. So, he did not get his pistol.
I would also argue that the annual physical must include a thorough psychological evaluation. It's not enough to have good vision, good hearing, a reasonable BP, and a reasonable cholesterol level.
So you support leaving him defenseless.
Shall not be infringed. Seems clear. As long as you haven't committed a crime why would he be denied a gun? Oh because you believe he shouldn't have one. Are people with mental illness automatically criminals in your mind?
People with mental illness are not criminals, but they still shouldn't have access to firearms if they have threatened to shoot up a school or other people!
But his example doesn't provide either. And without a conviction it's pretty fucking hard line to take. Anyone can report someone saying anything.
I don't see a single issue with the story he proposed. I, maybe, think the wife should've acquired a weapon and spent more time in the presence of her disabled spouse if the secondhand testimony from a bi-polar about crime in the neighborhood can be believed. But, that's her/their call, not mine.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it... and it ain't broke.
acquired
Maybe "secured access to" would be a better description.
Here's the problem. First, he had MS and had shakey hands. Second, he was bi-polar. His medication options for the bi-polar issue were limited, due to his MS medications. So, he could get more than just mad, if he lost his temper.
Despite that, his background check was approved.
When his wife found out, she said that if he bought the gun, she would leave him. So, he did not get his pistol.
You say "here's the problem" and then go on to detail how someone you don't think should've had a gun didn't get a gun. Are you saying they should've gotten a gun or are you complaining that what you perceived as a problem solved itself and solved itself with the outcome you wanted, just without your intervention?
If you have an interaction with law enforcement due to comments in public, private or social media about blowing up a school, shooting somebody, committing mass murder, or committing any other crime, that should be included in the database used for background checks. This shooter and the Parkland shooter had that in common. Both had been questioned about committing school violence, and both were returned to the street with no disqualifying tic mark on their background checks. Both should have been prevented from purchasing a BB gun, much less a semi-automatic rifle.
"Libertarians for thoughtcrimes"
Go fuck yourself, totalitarian scumbag.
So, how do you prove they said it? Anyone can report someone for anything, without a conviction the constitution still reads innocent until proven guilty.
And it also says you can't be denied liberty or rights without a conviction.
Ok, so this is a problem on the same scale as gang murders and airline crashes. Given the history of the world and the random ways (and likelihood) of death, are we at a point that we surrender basic rights to advance political goals?
The Biden administration nevertheless "renewed its calls" ... To strengthen the Nazi-Regime and destroy the U.S. Constitution.
Because that's what the left does.
I think this article makes a lot of good points, but even if "The vast majority do not have disqualifying records, and 'universal' requirements are easily evaded," isn't it possible that the current rules/restriction do prevent some mass shootings? We only know that some still happen; we don't know how many more might have happened without the current regulations. Not that I'm for more regulations, but as a Libertarian, I like to be logical.
We know that they wouldn't stop 85% at least per the article. So you want to impose more restrictions on people, 99.9% of who will never misuse their guns, on the possibility that maybe some of the 15% of the remaining mass shootings might possibly be deterred? Which other constitutional right are you willing to restrict using the same logic?
"Just 13 percent of mass shooters obtained firearms through illegal transactions. In other words, background checks would have been no obstacle in 87 percent of the cases."
In reality background checks would have been no obstacle in 100% of cases. 87% didn't have an obstacle because they went through the background check and 13% found it no obstacle to avoid it so not an obstacle in 100 percent of cases.
Yeah I noticed that myself. In reality background checks were no obstacle in 100% of cases, as you just pointed out. There's another point to consider here; the wording implies the two are connected but that's not necessarily the case. Just because 13% obtained their guns illegally, doesn't mean they did so because of background checks. There are plenty of other good reasons. Perhaps getting a gun illegally is faster, cheaper and with fewer questions asked, regardless of background checks. Also, getting a gun illegally doesn't tie you to this particular gun, while getting one legally generally Does tie you to the gun; there's generally a record somewhere of the person who purchased it.
Yes, I also noted that the study spanned the years from 1966 through 2019. Considering there was no background check prior to 1993 it's obvious that background checks weren't an obstacle that even existed for half the period of the study. Heck, for the first two years of the study it was perfectly legal to purchase a gun through the mail which was tamped out with GCA '68 on the guise of preventing another Oswald.
I don't know why so-called journalist write in such a way as to lend legitimacy to "background checks".
The only goal of the proponents of "universal background checks" is registration. Everything else is lies.
Right on! I've been saying this for years and all we hear is "common sense background checks" being pushed by the blue team. I dont understand why people can't see this.
"We're going to continue to call on Congress to expand background checks." House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D–Calif.) likewise urged "passage of federal legislation to expand gun background checks, which she said was a 'huge priority' for Democrats."
Democrats want background checks - not to prevent mass shootings - it's a ploy to implement mass surveillance of those they fear at the ballot box!
In fact, the majority of "mass shootings" are incidents of domestic violence, in which the shooter, nearly always male, shoots family members.
Lord knows, the last thing we would want to do is interfere with the 2nd amendment rights of spouse abusers. Whoo.
https://injepijournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40621-021-00330-0
"...We found that 59.1% of mass shootings [4 or more killed] between 2014 and 2019 were DV-related and in 68.2% of mass shootings, the perpetrator either killed at least one partner or family member or had a history of DV."
http://jaapl.org/content/early/2020/02/05/JAAPL.003929-20
"...between 2009 and 2018, at least 54 percent of mass shootings, defined as shootings in which more than three people are killed in one event, were related to domestic or family violence."