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Antitrust

Twitter, Facebook, Netflix, and the Myth of Permanent Platform Power

Today's big powerful companies could become tomorrow's also-rans, no government intervention required.

Peter Suderman | 4.26.2022 2:39 PM

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musk-twitter-zumaamericasthirtyfour317746 | Britta Pedersen/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom
(Britta Pedersen/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom)

Twitter is changing ownership, following a purchase by Elon Musk, who has explicitly  said he intends to reorient the company's approach to online speech. Netflix, whose business model has long been predicated on sky's-the-limit growth, is bleeding subscribers. CNN+, a massively expensive project from what was once a dominant force in TV news, is shutting down a month after its launch. Facebook is losing regular users and taking a huge financial hit because of changes in the mobile ad space. Google is no longer the world's most popular website. 

If there is a single lesson to be learned here, it is that the marketplace for online communications, entertainment, and news media is never stable, and even the most powerful players can be dethroned. 

All of these companies are still mighty. And yet they are all falling, or at least stumbling, in ways that the political class and its boosters assured us simply would not happen, because markets had become static, and competition was impossible. This notion—that the market has finally reached some sort of permanent equilibrium, in which certain companies will wield outsize influence over public life forever—has been used repeatedly to justify calls for regulatory interventions aimed at combating the power of big tech and media, on the premise that large corporations cannot be checked or dislodged by anything but government action. It's a denial of dynamism. And what the recent spate of news makes clear is that this notion is wrong.

In 2020, when Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D–Mass.) announced her plan to break up large tech companies and regulate them as utilities, she justified her proposal with a simple declaration of Big Tech's implacable power: "Today's big tech companies have too much power–too much power over our economy, our society and our democracy." 

In 2018, Columbia law professor Tim Wu, who last year joined the Biden administration as an economic adviser, argued that Facebook, which rebranded as Meta, faces "no serious competition," and that the company had effectively become a monopoly. He argued in various forums that because of the company's monopolistic status, it should be forcibly broken up by federal overseers. By this logic, there was no other way to combat Facebook's market power. Only the federal government could serve as a check. 

Today, of course, the company has been dealt a major setback by changes in Apple's privacy policy, and by direct competition from other social networks like TikTok. Facebook's new name, Meta, refers to the "metaverse," a sprawling, imperfectly defined vision of a next-generation web. Facebook intends to invest heavily in metaverse products and tech development, but will face direct challenges from companies, many of which, like Epic Games, are already big players in the gaming.

And yet, complaints about Facebook's market dominance have achieved bipartisan purchase. In October 2020, Sen. Josh Hawley (R–Mo.), one of the GOP's most ardent tech critics, argued that Facebook "is a lot like a supermarket … except there's only ONE supermarket in town, and they decide who can and can't shop. That's what we call a monopoly." (He said this on Twitter.)

Twitter itself has been subject to calls for regulation and even, from those with more fringe views, outright appropriation by the state with the underlying idea being that it should be understood either explicitly or implicitly as a kind of public utility for national discourse. 

Some have even argued that Twitter's influence justifies ending or limiting Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act of 1996, which says that individuals and companies bear no legal liability for online speech posted by others. Over the last few years, congressional Republicans have attacked Twitter for its moderation decisions, in particular for those that restricted political speech, with former President Donald Trump demanding the end of Section 230—on Twitter, of course—and Sen. Ted Cruz (R–Texas) saying that social media moderation decisions "collectively pose the single biggest threat to free speech in America." Of the big players, Cruz said, "Twitter's conduct has by far been the most egregious." 

Some of those content decisions were worth criticizing—but they weren't real threats to the constitutional protections for free speech. The belief that they were, however, was predicated not only on an exaggerated sense of Twitter's current significance, but an assumption that it would remain powerful and unchanged forever without some sort of state intervention. As with Facebook, the prevailing sense was that the government was the only actor powerful enough to force change.  

Yet now Elon Musk has purchased Twitter, and may redirect it. Exactly how is unclear, but he's emphasized his desire for more openness and less capriciousness on moderation decisions, especially on matters of political speech. Musk's purchase appears to have been motivated at least in part by his desire to change the company's moderation practices. The point is not that Musk's version of Twitter will necessarily be good or bad or wonderful or irritating (likely it will be an imperfect mix), but that the market provided a vehicle for a substantial directional shift, without any direct involvement from the likes of Cruz. 

These are recent examples, but this pattern has persisted for decades, at least. In the '00s, the Federal Communications Commission under George W. Bush tried to implement mandatory "cable a la carte," which would have forced cable TV providers to sell individual channels at a per-channel rate rather than the bundles and packages they offered. This was pitched as a change necessary to help beleaguered parents shield their kids from risqué shows; cable TV and the salacious programming it trafficked in was too powerful a force in American life. Most homes had it; it was inescapable. There was "too little competition." Government thus had a responsibility to step in. 

A decade or so later, cable TV (and its sister technology, satellite TV) was fast becoming old news. Between 2015 and 2021, the percentage of Americans who admitted to watching TV as we used to know it fell from 76 percent to 56 percent, according to Pew Research Center. Even still, in 2021, congressional Democrats sent letters to cable providers expressing worries about "media disinformation" on conservative cable news networks. 

What displaced cable? Streaming services like Netflix, which built an entertainment empire, and raised a fortune in funding, on promises of vast growth. Last week, however, the company announced that it had lost 200,000 subscribers, the first overall decline in a decade, and that it expected to lose about 2 million more in coming months. Among Netflix's difficulties: competition from other deep-pocketed tech and entertainment companies like Hulu, Apple TV+, and Disney+. And then there's CNN, a giant of the old world of cable which recently launched and then quickly shut down a streaming service of its own, after spending $300 million to develop it. Whoops!

Big doesn't mean permanent. Powerful doesn't mean monopolistic. The behemoths of media and tech can fail and falter. Competition is possible, even in capital-intensive industries. Directional change in a company's approach can and does happen without the intervention of federal minders.

None of the examples above are flukes or special cases, either. This is the nature of the market, which is always in flux, always evolving, even and perhaps especially when powerful players are involved. Today's big powerful companies could become tomorrow's also-rans, no government action required.  

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Peter Suderman is features editor at Reason.

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  1. Longtobefree   3 years ago

    Maybe all the regulation that is needed is to require clear and specific terms of service, and that any account suspended or cancelled be told exactly what the violation was.
    Not "you violated our policy", but "You advocated insurrection by saying 'X'".

    1. JesseAz   3 years ago

      Exactly this.

      And the moment said rule is not applied universally it is no longer a term under the contract.

    2. Brandybuck   3 years ago

      The problem is that if the terms aren't specific enough you end up creating a bunch of loopholes.

      In other words, saying "no racism" is better than a long list of racist words. Because if you forget one then it's implied that it's okay to use.

      1. R Mac   3 years ago

        Is this specific to saying racist things, or does it include calling a whole swath of people racist just because you disagree with them on a policy?

        1. JesseAz   3 years ago

          From his all white neighborhood to boot.

      2. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

        "Brandybuck's a cornopooter"

        I invented that word just now, but said it to be intentionally denigrating to whatever race you are (probably a limey or a mick). Should I be banned?

        1. Outlaw Josey Wales   3 years ago

          My hope would be Brandy gets to fight his own battle against being called a 'Cornopooter' (must be some kind of Canadien insult, like hoser. 🙂 )

          But if Brandy's fight devolves into Doxxing you or going after family and friends then intervention? Tough to draw that line.

          1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

            "must be some kind of Canadien insult"

            It wasn't yesterday but it's worse than the n-word now.

            1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

              I’m totally triggered over here.

          2. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

            Also, doxxing me or going after my family and friends is illegal and a matter for the cops, not Twitter.

      3. JesseAz   3 years ago

        Yes. Libertarians would err on the side of more speech than restricted. Present company excluded.

      4. Nobartium   3 years ago

        And?

      5. 5.56   3 years ago

        "The problem is that if the terms aren't specific enough you end up creating a bunch of loopholes."

        You mean unspecific enough, but that doesn't sound good, yes? Because "no racism" is very UNspecific.

        Authoritarians like UNspecific. They want to leave you in doubt. That is what your comment is in support of.

        Also underlying this is a tendency on the left to generally - well, why am I doing this, just fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you.

      6. 5.56   3 years ago

        Well, actually, I meant to say: To generally restrict and then allow on a case by case basis. As opposed to allowing and then restricting on a case by case basis, like normal people with a non-authoritarian mind would do.

        but again, instead, fuck you. like, fuck you.

        1. Outlaw Josey Wales   3 years ago

          Except there are tools to deal with attacks to your account. You can block. You can report, flag. You can refuse to engage at a minimum. You can leave altogether. You can Buttplug up a new account. Same kind of tools we have here. Why not an open forum?

          If you think of the kinds of recourse we have in this comments section. How often does it devolve? And concentrated hostility and/or mocking can drive posters to another site. In the case of twitter, to another feed.

          1. 5.56   3 years ago

            You are honestly not making a point with regards to what I said about a general tendency of the left to universally restrict than sporadically allow, which is in itself authoritarian.

            It's also peculiar what you seem to consider an "attack", it appears to me that you are emotional, fragile and easily scared.

            I think you might be a snowflake. As you pretend to have muted me, this characterization is mainly for others to consider.

      7. 5.56   3 years ago

        Ok so I decided to come to say the following:

        Fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you

        I don't know if I may have said that already in some other relevant context, but I just wanted to be sure.

        1. Outlaw Josey Wales   3 years ago

          And now you are a grey box in my feed. See how that could work?

          Sorry, did you say something. Because now I don't care.

          1. 5.56   3 years ago

            Lol and who cares about what moralizing dumbfucks care about again? 😀

    3. mad.casual   3 years ago

      I thought Musk paid lip service in the direction it ought to go:
      "Dear User,

      Attached is the court order requesting the removal of your post and/or closure of associated accounts. If you believe you've been mistakenly identified in this order, please let us know with clarifying documentation. Otherwise, please contact the court officials listed in this order.

      Thanks,
      Twitter"

    4. Guy2010   3 years ago

      Absent an Amendment to the constitution, such a regulation or law such a law would be in blatant violation of the 1st Amendment.

      The 1st amendment is clear. Twitter - Not the government - get's to decide what content they do or do not allow on their own website. What twitter decides to host on it's website Is none of the governments business.

      1. Nardz   3 years ago

        That's for courts/juries to decide on a case by case basis.

  2. JesseAz   3 years ago

    Shorter reason:

    Ignore censorship because when you become a billionaire you too can fight against it.

    1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

      Can you link to the article you read? The one above was about how technology and creative destruction limit the power and longevity of businesses naturally without the need for government intervention. I'd be interested in reading the one you're talking about.

      1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

        https://reason.com/2022/04/26/twitter-facebook-netflix-and-the-myth-of-permanent-platform-power

      2. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

        Also your response was irrelevant to Jesse's accusation.

        1. JesseAz   3 years ago

          It is a weird trend lately seeing some who claim to be free market libertarians basically condone soft fascism through corporations.

          As well as them saying delayed freedoms are just fine because some time in the future you may get some back.

          We already have massive corporations involved with DEI and ESGs that are being influenced by both political actors under threat of regulations as well as banking and financing industries to influence behaviors.

          AWS essentially told all new social platforms they needed to have similar conditions to moderation as powerful companies causing anti competitive market.

          For some reason a certain class of sophomoric thinkers simply ignore these manipulations of the market in order to not argue ideas in depth.

          It is an odd behavior to me.

          1. R Mac   3 years ago

            Not odd considering their hatred of who it’s happening to.

          2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

            For some reason a certain class of sophomoric thinkers simply ignore these manipulations of the market in order to not argue ideas in depth.

            Nice one-two punch of strawman and ad hominem.

            You should try responding to what people say instead of imagining what they didn't say and why, and then responding to that.

            1. Austin Kiehm   3 years ago

              You should try responding to what people say instead of imagining what they didn't say and why, and then responding to that.

              Considering you supposedly muted JesseAz over a year ago and routinely guess at what he might be saying about you, despite you obsessively replying to all of his posts that you supposedly can't see, this is funnier than usual.

              1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                How many new accounts to you create a week?

                1. R Mac   3 years ago

                  How many times do you mute, then unmute, any particular person in a week?

            2. JesseAz   3 years ago

              I did respond to what you were saying. You cut it all out. And instead of engaging with the discussion you chose to scream youre a victim.

              It further proves my point.

              1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                You didn't respond to what I was saying.

                It is a weird trend lately seeing some who claim to be free market libertarians basically condone soft fascism through corporations.

                That's you reading things that aren't there. Nobody said that.

                As well as them saying delayed freedoms are just fine because some time in the future you may get some back.

                Nobody said that either.

                For some reason a certain class of sophomoric thinkers simply ignore these manipulations of the market in order to not argue ideas in depth.

                Again you're reading opinion and motive from what wasn't said.

                It is an odd behavior to me.

                And for a flourish you say that they are odd, all based upon what they never said.

                Seriously?

                1. JesseAz   3 years ago

                  What substantive argument did you actually make? I made mine. In fact all of your responses are "nobody said that" but these conversations have been going on for years.

                  Do you have substantive reply or are you going to play victim all day?

                  1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                    Now you're going with false dichotomy.

                    1. JesseAz   3 years ago

                      I see you've chosen the latter.

                    2. R Mac   3 years ago

                      Poor sarc.

                    3. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                      Maybe someday you'll respond to what I actually say instead of things you dream up in your head.

                    4. JesseAz   3 years ago

                      Sarc... do you even realize that calling out logical fallacies when you admit you aren't even making arguments isnt a real thing?

                      Like your claim of ad hominem below. It means to dismiss an argument by attacking someone. You aren't making an argument. Youre just being an idiot lol.

                      The false dichotomy above? Again, you're not making an argument youre acting like a child.

                      Just wow.

          3. sarcasmic   3 years ago

            It is an odd behavior to me.

            Telling people what they think based upon what they didn't say, and then arguing against it, is an odd behavior to me.

            1. Austin Kiehm   3 years ago

              The first step is admitting you have a problem. Now if you could just take some responsibility for your alcoholism and abusing your ex-wife...

            2. JesseAz   3 years ago

              I link to your past arguments dummy. O don't know why you still lie about this.

              1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                I rarely make arguments. What you link to are statements, not arguments.

                1. JesseAz   3 years ago

                  Hey a truthful comment from you? Congrats buddy!

                  Now stop pretending you care about argumentation when you admit you don't give a shit or offer up actual arguments. And yes this post is saved for when you pretend nobody responds to your arguments in the future.

                  Move on child.

                  1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                    Now stop pretending you care about argumentation when you admit you don't give a shit or offer up actual arguments.

                    Now you're inserting a premise. Specifically "you don't give a shit."

                    I didn't say that.

                    Argue with what I say, not your imagination.

                    1. JesseAz   3 years ago

                      Perhaps I wasn't clear when I called you a child.

                    2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                      JesseAz is calling me names.

                      Shocking.

                    3. R Mac   3 years ago

                      How can he argue against what you say if you aren’t making an argument?

          4. Petercj   3 years ago

            It makes sense because corporate crony capitalism is the same thing as the free market, if you’re fake libertarian, or a phony fiscal conservative.

            As a sidenote wasn’t the fascist whom invented modern corporate regulations?

        2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

          When I'm interested in your opinion I'll take a shit.

          1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

            ???
            You've been taking shits here all day.

          2. JesseAz   3 years ago

            And this is the sophomoric behavior I alluded too. Cheers.

            1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

              I wasn't talking to you.

              1. JesseAz   3 years ago

                But you are a child. We agree on that.

                1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                  lol

      3. JesseAz   3 years ago

        When you realize these companies are enrolled up by politically connected entities and not relying on purely free markets we can have a discussion like adults.

        Until then you are preaching bumper sticker thoughts.

        See the attacks against Gab and Parlor as competitors.

        1. JesseAz   3 years ago

          Are engaging with politically *

        2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

          It's indeed hard to have a conversation when you don't agree on the premises. If you want to find premises that's one thing. If you're going to call me names because our premises differ then there is indeed nothing to talk about.

          1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

            find *common* preferences

            1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

              **premises** fucking autocorrect

          2. Salted Nuts   3 years ago

            Is holding different premises how you describe living in Lalaland?

            1. Austin Kiehm   3 years ago

              It's accurate. The local schizo who runs up to cars at greenlight intersections preaching the good word and I simply share a different premise: I'm in reality and he's not.

            2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

              Unless you're interacting with someone who engages in the same groupthink as you, they're going to have different premises. Saying that anyone with differing opinions lives in "Lalaland" is something I'd expect from a leftist. After all, they're all about diversity in everything except ideas. Are you saying you're a leftist? Because you sure seem to talk like one.

              1. JesseAz   3 years ago

                Your premises are shit. They basically amount to "how can I join the intellectual debate with the least amount of analytical thinking... I know, bumper sticker phrasing!"

                I see you responded nearly a dozen times with no actual response to the points raised.

                Truly an odd behavior.

                1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                  You don't know what my premises are because I haven't told you. You imagine my premises and argue against them, but that isn't arguing with me. It's arguing with your imagination.

                2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                  If you want my premises, ask. If you want to know what I think about something, ask.

                  Instead you tell me what I think and then argue against it. It's really tiresome.

                  Try saying "hey sarc, do you seriously think that social media is operating in a totally free market?" and respond to that, instead of telling me that I do, arguing against it, and then calling me names.

                  1. JesseAz   3 years ago

                    sarcasmic
                    April.26.2022 at 6:14 pm
                    Flag Comment Mute User
                    I rarely make arguments. What you link to are statements, not arguments.

                    You have no interest in debate. Move on.

                    1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                      I didn't say that I do not make arguments.

                      I do.

                      To worthy people.

                      You are not worthy because you argue against what people don't say while ignoring what they do say.

                      Why should I make an argument with you? You've already lived it in your head and responded before I had a chance.

                    2. JesseAz   3 years ago

                      I'm sorry. Are you actually refuting what you just said in the same thread?

                    3. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                      Are you actually refuting what you just said in the same thread?

                      Only if you don't know what "rarely" means.

          3. JesseAz   3 years ago

            You dont have any premises of actual depth. Your original response was not worth shit. Do you think you made an actual argument?

            1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

              You responded to an argument I didn't make. I call that odd behavior.

              1. JesseAz   3 years ago

                I didn't respond to you dumbass. I responded to someone else regarding a behavior that has been on these boards for years.

                Nobody actually cares about you because as you stated:

                sarcasmic
                April.26.2022 at 6:14 pm
                Flag Comment Mute User
                I rarely make arguments. What you link to are statements, not arguments.

                1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                  So you're making an ad hominem. OK.

                  1. JesseAz   3 years ago

                    Again you ignore the first 3 paragraphs while trying to be the victim here.

                    Move on child.

                    1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                      It always ends with you calling me names and telling me to grow up at the same time. Self awareness. Ever heard of it?

    2. perlmonger   3 years ago

      I mean, depending on how the inflation goes, we might all be billionaires, soon. And that's just to buy a cup of coffee.

  3. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

    Platform power was never the problem, Suderman. And you know it.

    The problem was the administration and political actors telling them who to censor and coordinating mass censorship. It was a slimey grotesque way to evade the first amendment.

    When the company goes public it belongs to the shareholders, not the board and the CEO. Everything that the board and CEO do should be in the shareholders interests.
    Where was the shareholder's interest in censoring the Oxford University virology department, or the British Medical Journal, or the American Heart and Stroke Foundation, or the Stanford epidemiology head when they called out Pfizer and contradicted the CDC?
    Where was the shareholder's interest in banning Trump and the Babylon Bee?
    Where was the shareholder's interest in censoring America's oldest newspaper over the Hunter laptop story?

    The only people who had an interest in all those censorship incidents and bans was the Democratic Party. Not the shareholders.

    It was obvious from the beginning that this was a criminal end run by the Democrats around the first amendment.

    1. Nobartium   3 years ago

      Also this. We really should stop accepting the premise that large companies are private. By their own structure and liability, they aren't.

      1. JesseAz   3 years ago

        They are defined by the market as publicly traded companies. The whole fight with Honby Lobby was it was a minimally held company that Roberts restricted his decisions to. Of they had been largely traded companies they likely don't get to keep the protections ruled in in that case.

        1. SRG   3 years ago

          The "closely held" loophole was made out of whole cloth, of course. Either a company is a separate person or it isn't. To say, it's a separate person as far as taxes or employment are concerned, but is merely a pass-through in matters of conscience is an egregious instance of fitting the reason for the decision to the desired outcome.

      2. Overt   3 years ago

        We should be focused on laws and regulations that make it easier for shareholders to hold their boards accountable.

        We should be focused on Laws that shine light on the revolving door between government functionaries and boards.

        We should be focused on laws that create concrete barriers between the executive branch and the operations of companies.

        - Just FYI: this isn't just about banning people from Twitter. These tech companies are complicit in helping the government spy on you. Do you have mail or storage with a major company like Google or Microsoft? I guarantee you that it is possible for a government functionary to email a request and these companies are obligated to let that functionary monitor what is being said.

    2. Bill Yu   3 years ago

      Well said!

  4. NOYB2   3 years ago

    Today's big powerful companies could become tomorrow's also-rans, no government intervention required.

    We used to have private utilities, private roads, and competitive healthcare and trash hauling. All of those started in a free market and all of them have either been made parts of the state or have been granted government monopolies.

    "No government intervention" really isn't an option for companies of this size, power, and importance; government will always intervene and regulate such companies; such companies do not exist in a free market.

    Government intervention will either grant them regulated government monopolies and subject them to massive political influence, or it will break them up and destroy them. Between the two options, breaking them up and destroying them is preferable.

    And Twitter, Netflix, and Facebook never operated in a free market to begin with; they exist solely because of massive government subsidies and massive government regulation. In a free market, none of those companies would have come into being.

    1. Overt   3 years ago

      You realize that it was BY performing government intervention that these companies were solidified in their spaces, right? That's how this works. Company A says, "Of course you can regulate me...but because you are taking these competitive decisions from me, you owe me some guarantees."

      That's how the board setup to regulate taxis suddenly has the power and desire to shut down Uber. It's how Too Big To Fail Banks are given endless bailouts while small credit unions fold by the bushel under regulatory requirements.

      There was a time when Blockbuster owned nearly 50% of the rental video market; When Yahoo had 80% of the search market; when MySpace was the #1 social media site. All these thrones were lost, and today seem doomed from the start, even though at the time everyone was insisting that short of government control, they would be inevitable.

      1. JesseAz   3 years ago

        Did blockbuster collude with movie makers to try to harm competitors? These aren't free market actors.

      2. NOYB2   3 years ago

        You realize that it was BY performing government intervention that these companies were solidified in their spaces, right?

        Yes, I do realize it. I f*cking pointed it out.

        Which part of "No government intervention" really isn't an option for companies of this size, power, and importance was too difficult for you to comprehend?

        There was a time when Blockbuster owned nearly 50% of the rental video market; When Yahoo had 80% of the search market; when MySpace was the #1 social media site.

        Yes, companies often fail. What's your point? In the case of Blockbuster, it was, in fact, government-subsidized infrastructure and competitors that caused it to fail. And Blockbuster wasn't a useful crony capitalist to the powers.

        I suggest you re-read what I wrote and then perhaps try to comment intelligently.

  5. CE   3 years ago

    Don't forget AOL, MySpace, and Yahoo (among others). People were paid a lot of money to run them into the ground.

    1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

      Twitter and Facebook will have the same fate as those companies when someone comes up with a better idea for a social media platform.

      1. Austin Kiehm   3 years ago

        Twitter is a horrible idea for a social media platform and has always been an also-ran in terms of users. The only reason anybody cares about Twitter is because it's the sole source of information for midwit journOlists. It will be allowed to die now that it's outlived its usefulness. Facebook will never die, any more than any other In-Q-Tel capitalized surveillance capitalism farm ever has. It actually is different this time. AOL, Yahoo! and MySpace were not funded by the venture capital arm of the fucking CIA.

      2. JesseAz   3 years ago

        And you continue to ignore the market collusion of these companies. Amazing.

        1. Overt   3 years ago

          If you think there wasn't market collusion going on for AOL, Yahoo and other SV companies, you are oblivious to how SV works.

          1. JesseAz   3 years ago

            Not nearly to the level it is today where primary industries like AWS. DDos/security vendors, finance industries, governments, etc are all colluding together.

        2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

          When did I say that?

          1. JesseAz   3 years ago

            When do you say anything worthwhile?

          2. JesseAz   3 years ago

            And by the way I said you ignore it. When have you posted about it to disprove you dont ignore it?

            English. How does it work?

            1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

              When have you posted about it to disprove you dont ignore it?

              You tell me, because that certainly wasn't it.

            2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

              Ok, I think I understand what that sentence meant.

              You're saying "Hey you ignored this shit that I think is all important and stuff. That means you must support whatever I'm arguing against. Don't tell me what you think. I'm not interested. I already decided what you think."

              Then you start calling me names.

              Is there a purpose to this?

  6. Novathecat   3 years ago

    If Elon removes moderation, Twitter will become a cesspool that most users will abandon. I think there would be a market for a clean, troll-free social media platform safe for children, parents, non-trolls, and non-haters. Maybe it could be a paid service.

    1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

      If Elon removes moderation, Twitter will become a cesspool that most users will abandon.

      Like Reason?

      1. JesseAz   3 years ago

        Ideas! Deep thought and responses!

        1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

          You should try it sometime.

          1. JesseAz   3 years ago

            sarcasmic
            April.26.2022 at 6:14 pm
            Flag Comment Mute User
            I rarely make arguments. What you link to are statements, not arguments.

            1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

              sarcasmic
              August.12.2021 at 4:45 pm
              I only show up to watch the clowns duke it out while tossing in this or that provocation. Bread and circuses. This is a circus.

              sarcasmic
              September.10.2021 at 12:14 pm
              I like to stir shit up. So what.

              1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                You don't?

                1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                  No. I don't.

            2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

              And....

              You link to stuff like you're making some profound statement. You're not.

    2. R Mac   3 years ago

      Everyone just saying whatever the fuck they want? The horror!

    3. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

      "If Elon removes moderation"

      Elon has explicitly said he's not removing moderation. He's said it will no longer be arbitrary and will have clear, fair rules apparent to everyone.

    4. Austin Kiehm   3 years ago

      I'd happily pay for a service that kept uptight neurotic schoolmarms like you isolated from the rest of society so we could enjoy the internet in fucking peace like we did for a 20 years before Steve Jobs gifted the world with a device simple enough that clinical fucking retards could get online.

    5. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

      Don’t think he’s interested in removing moderation, though. He has talked about making algorithms open source which is an intriguing idea.

      1. R Mac   3 years ago

        Clear concise rules are intriguing.

    6. JesseAz   3 years ago

      I meant mute buttons exist on Twitter. So no.

  7. Socialmisfit   3 years ago

    "Some of those content decisions were worth criticizing—but they weren't real threats to the constitutional protections for free speech."

    It seems to me that this requires acceptance of some timeline for correction. People were deplatformed. Financially harmed. They had not alternative to turn to. Certainly if they wait several years or so, a Musk comes along and changes things. But who can wait? What is the statute of limitation on big tech trampling on free speech rights? A month? A year? A decade? A generation?

    Personally, I think it is a nanosecond. You big tech fuck with my free speech rights, you need to be regulated to stop or otherwise disappear.

    1. Overt   3 years ago

      "What is the statute of limitation on big tech trampling on free speech rights?"

      No one trampled on your free speech rights via these platforms. They definitely stood in the way of free expression, but rights were not infringed.

      Do we wish the market came up with a solution for expanding free expression sooner? Absolutely. That's nice to have, but not your right. I'd love it if the market gave me instant weight loss and a full head of hair. You aren't going to regulate that into happening.

      And the day you have government regulate Facebook or Google into hosting content, is the day that you have given the government control of content on those platforms, and ensured that no competitor will ever let those platforms go.

      The free market is messy. It takes time to work things through. Over decades, crazy awesome stuff comes about just so long as authoritarians don't invite the government in to fuck it all up.

  8. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    Don't like Twitter? Don't use it. Don't like Facebook? Don't use it. It's that simple.

    1. 5.56   3 years ago

      We had this before. I said that these services are script-embedded in most websites, so you do use them whether you like it or not. It's really almost like saying "don't like the roads here in New Orleans? Well don't use them". Yes, you can move out of New Orleans, which I recommend to anyone who has a braincell left, but this is not an option to many who live there.

      If you don't wanna use facebook, strictly speaking, you would have to cease to use reason. Because facebook is embedded here and they do process your data and do their worst to get around any digital condom you may wear.

      1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

        That’s really Facebook using you, not the other way around.

      2. Austin Kiehm   3 years ago

        You'd think a self-described computer programming expert might have a clue how modern web tracking works. It's almost like sarcasmic is a pathetic piece of shit child abusing drunken homeless liar who hasn't held a job since he worked as a fry cook and was dismissed for spitting in customers' food.

      3. sarcasmic   3 years ago

        I believe you're mistaken. Sure Fecesbook may be gathering data to feed to their advertising algorithms, but since I don't use the platform the data will never be used.

        1. JesseAz   3 years ago

          There are dozens of CS based analysis showing they make profiles of you even if you aren't a user of their tools.

          For fucks sake. Read something before you assert something so strongly yet so wrong.

          1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

            I'm not arguing against that. Read what I actually said. I'm agreeing that they collect data. I disagree that that constitutes using their product.

            1. JesseAz   3 years ago

              You said they were mistaken meaning they don't have profiles. For fuck sakes read what you wrote. This is like talking to a 5 year old.

              1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                This is like talking to a 5 year old.

                I agree. Getting you to understand basic things is like pulling teeth.

          2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

            This may be an example of premises.

            I do not consider Facederp tracking to be using their tools. They are collecting data so they can do targeting advertising should I use their tools. But that isn't me being a user. I'm not actively using their products. Rather they are passively collecting information.

            Apparently you consider that to be using their tools.

            Why do you think that? Like I said, them collecting data isn't me using their products. Why do you think it is?

            1. 5.56   3 years ago

              I just asked myself why I actually consider it "using" their tools. So what I'm thinking:

              Say you use an operating system that has a whole lotta bloat ware. Or a car with a display and a navigation system that also has services you don't need. Do you use those things by using the OS/Car?

              Maybe not actively.

              But do you support the people who put this stuff in your OS/Car against your will? Certainly to some extent.

              In much the same manner, your active use of reason supports facebook/amazon/google, because these are parts of the website.

              So when you say: "Just don't use it if you don't like it", but the argument I hear is: "If you don't like them, just withdraw your support." The latter isn't so easy, even if you don't actively use them.

              We could actually say that, with reason, they do constitute a vital part of the website. Amazon, for example, provides web services, google also provides all sorts of components to websites as we know. Here I would use the analogy that if you use a car that was built with certain parts, but you only ever actively use the gas pedal, steering wheel, gear shift etc., you still indirectly use the other parts that actually enable it's functionality. Now if these services provide some technical functionality, advertising, or if reason makes part of their money with them, then, in a sense, you are using them by using reason.

              1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                In much the same manner, your active use of reason supports facebook/amazon/google, because these are parts of the website.

                No. Absolutely not. Reason may support those things and those things may be part of the website. But I'm not supporting them. I'm not using them. Those things collect information to use for advertising. But until I give them an opportunity to use that information on one of their tools and send me targeted advertising, I'm not a user.

                The NSA snoops on stuff. Does that make us all NSA users?

                1. R Mac   3 years ago

                  “Don't like Facebook? Don't use it.”

                  So if I don’t like Facebook collecting data on me?

                2. 5.56   3 years ago

                  Well it's debatable whether you're actively using them. But your active use of reason helps/support the mentioned services.

                  Your data helps them even if you don't have an account. Your user behavior is consistent and has analyzable correlations in it whether your name is written on it or not.

                  The NSA is not part of any website you use. Can't see NSA.gov in the scripts here. But as facebook and ilk are openly a part of reason.com, your use of reason helps them.

                  They're nearly everywhere.

    2. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

      You have a Facebook profile that follows you around the net even if you've never signed up.

      1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

        And....

        1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

          ...and you're using facebook whether you think you are or not?

          1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

            No. I'm not. Facebook is collecting information. I'm not using it. And neither are they, because I don't provide them with an opportunity to expose me to targeted advertising based on that browsing information.

            1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

              Have you ever visited a site that offered "like" on facebook button? This article has one up at the very top. They almost all do.
              Even if you didn't use it, your IP address is logged, a tracking cookie's installed, your location data is snagged and everything is added to a profile of you created by AI.
              And that's just the tip of the iceberg of what they collect on you. The sites that let you log in with a facebook account are even worse, even if you don't use it, and porn sites like Pornhub have facebook tracking on every vid.
              https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/how-facebook-tracks-you-even-when-youre-not-on-facebook-a7977954071/

              The only way you can evade them somewhat is Brave plus a VPN, or of course TOR.

  9. Corporatist Remover   3 years ago

    No, pig fuck. Big Tech is an extension of the national security state. If you think that Facebook or Twitter are private corporations (which just happen to receive taxpayer funding and collude with state actors), then you're either a massive idiot (a certainty) or a prostitute (also a certainty).

  10. Austin Kiehm   3 years ago

    Google has had a near monopoly position of 80%+ market share in the ad space for 20 years. Yes Virginia, there are permanent platforms. It's not too difficult to pick the winners from the losers: just see who was capitalized most by In-Q-Tel. Those scrappy little Spartan fast-moving web companies all owing their existence to Uncle Sam's massive equity stake. If you think those are going away any time soon I have a rotary Ma Bell phone to sell you.

  11. J555   3 years ago

    A lot of very premature victory celebrations going on here. Let's see if Twitter is permitted to allow free speech. Various other site which do so have found themselves deplatformed.

    Whose servers is Twitter hosted on? Amazon's. You may recall that when Parler tried to discuss the mountain of evidence that the 2020 election was stolen, Amazon (who hosted them) kicked them off. And that's just one avenue of attack for the statist-corporatists in corporate America to use against Twitter if it threatens their stranglehold on the flow on information.

    1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

      "Whose servers is Twitter hosted on? Amazon's"

      Fortunately Musk has the resources to put Twitter on his own servers and make any negative interim action by Amazon hurt. Parler couldn't afford the retaliation Musk can.

      I think they're going to try to attack Musk indirectly through agencies like the FAA instead. I also think I that they're going to try a pump out some laws restricting Social Media before midterms too.

  12. verbatim   3 years ago

    "[T]he Myth of Permanent Platform Power...Today's big powerful companies could become tomorrow's also-rans, no government intervention required."

    While this may be true, a lot of damage can be done while waiting for corrective action.

  13. SRG   3 years ago

    The competitive moat for Twitter is none too broad nor deep. Neither tech nor capital are major obstacles. I predict that, not counting Trump's Trash Social, there will be at least two new rivals by the end of 2022l

  14. TJJ2000   3 years ago

    "In 2020, when Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D–Mass.) announced her plan to break up large tech companies and regulate them as utilities."

    Why sometimes it's like both parties are working towards the same goal - Gov take-over of the press.

    I detest Democrats and their Nazi-Regime and find that ?some? Republicans will at least entertain the notion of a U.S. Constitution (a people's supreme law over them)... But this REGULATE THE PRESS seems to be truly a boaf sidez issue.

    Get the Gov-Guns away from the PRESS!!!! STOP Subsidizing them, STOP regulating them... Just get those Gov-Guns AWAY!

  15. ErvinSmith   3 years ago

    Despite the fact that there are a lot of different betting platforms now, I still think that there are not so many high-quality options. I have some ideas about a great betting platform, so I turned to the experts for a ready-made sportsbook api solution. It's convenient because I don't have to think about the interface, bets, broadcasts. This platform already offers everything I need, I just have to adapt it for my clients.

  16. Mickey Rat   3 years ago

    It is a strange premise that the only threat to free speech as a principle are explicit violations of the 1st Amendment rather than also including legal behavior which undermines a culture of free speech. We had the social media platforms colluding in suppressing an accurate news story in order to protect a particular partisan political candidate. We have had Reason writers being suspended or having their content suppressed and they squeal when it happens to them and complain that it is unfair and unjust, but cannot seem to have much empathy for anyone else this happens to.

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