No, Elon Musk Didn't Pay a 3.27 Percent Tax Rate
Plus: How misinformation spreads, ignoring inflation, and more...

"Musk paid an effective tax rate of 3.27%" claims Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D–Wash.). Politicians love to lament misinformation and disinformation on social media…but they seem to make an exception for themselves. The latest case in point comes from Democrats' rhetoric around taxes paid by Elon Musk.
The Tesla and SpaceX CEO recently became progressive enemy of the week after striking a deal to buy Twitter and promising to institute—gasp—policies more friendly to free speech. Musk's move has spawned a whole host of weird freakouts and demands, including insistence that Musk owning Twitter means we must reform Section 230 (the federal law that helps shield digital platforms from some legal liabilities for user content) and that it will help Donald Trump win the presidency in 2024. Along with this hysteria has come all sorts of Musk criticism and attacks that are occasionally justified but largely divorced from reality.
This includes some seriously skewed information about Musk's tax burden. On Monday, Jayapal tweeted: "Just a reminder that from 2014-2018, Elon Musk paid an effective tax rate of 3.27%. The average working family pays an average tax rate of 13%. It's time for a wealth tax in this country."
The implication here is that Musk isn't paying his fair share in taxes and, conveniently, it lends itself to a popular progressives talking point about taxing wealth.
But Musk is already paying a massive sum of money in taxes—somewhere in the range of $8 billion to $15 billion for 2021, according to estimates from various media sources. "I will pay more taxes than any American in history this year," Musk tweeted last December.
Musk's income puts him in the top federal income-tax bracket, where income is currently taxed at 37 percent.
According to ProPublica, Musk's average effective federal income tax rate between 2013 and 2018 was 27 percent.
And the tax on exercising his Tesla stock options was much higher. "Since the options are taxed as an employee benefit or compensation, they will be taxed at top ordinary-income levels, or 37% plus the 3.8% net investment tax," notes CNBC. "He will also have to pay the 13.3% top tax rate in California since the options were granted and mostly earned while he was a California tax resident. Combined, the state and federal tax rate will be 54.1%."
Jayapal seems to have reached her "alternative facts" (to use a vintage Trump-administration term) by calculating Musk's tax rate based on a system she wishes we used rather than the calculation system we actually use.
As it stands, Americans do not pay taxes on unrealized gains—that is, appreciations in investments that exist only on paper. If you own a stock worth $5 per share and its worth increases to $6 per share over the course of a tax year, you have an unrealized gain of $1 per share. You aren't expected to pay taxes on that gain until you sell your shares—which makes sense, since 1) you don't actually have that money yet and 2) the stock's worth could drop again before you sell. Maybe next year the stock decreases to $4 per share.
No, he paid 27% of his income in taxes from 2013-2018 (Source: stolen ProPublica data). You only get 3% if you include unrealized capital gains https://t.co/93D9RnSyMI
— Jeremy 'adjusted for inflation' Horpedahl ???? (@jmhorp) April 25, 2022
Jayapal appears to have come up with the alleged 3.27 percent tax rate for Musk by including unrealized gains in the amount she thinks he owes taxes on (while using the standard method for calculating the average income tax rate). However, unrealized gains are, by definition, gains that Musk doesn't yet have. When he actually realizes the gains, he will be required to pay taxes on them. That's how it works.
Democrats have been itching to change the law so that unrealized gains on stocks, real estate, and other assets are taxed. (So, for instance, "a home or property that increased in value but was not sold could generate a federal tax obligation, even though the owner saw no money from the increase," as Reason's Eric Boehm recently pointed out.)
"That proposed tax is likely unconstitutional," suggests GianCarlo Canaparo, a senior legal fellow with The Heritage Foundation. With the exception of income taxes, direct taxes levied by the federal government "must be spread equally among the populations of the states to pass constitutional muster," notes Canaparo:
Income, the Supreme Court held in Commissioner v. Glenshaw Glass (1955), means "undeniable accessions to wealth, clearly realized, and over which the taxpayers have complete dominion."
Tax law enthusiasts and finance gurus can quibble over whether an increase in the price of an unsold stock is an undeniable accession to wealth over which a taxpayer has complete dominion, but not even the world's best lawyer could argue that "unrealized" actually means "realized."
Another Supreme Court opinion, Eisner v. Macomber (1920), bears on that argument. There, the Supreme Court held that a stock dividend was not income because the dividend didn't put any money into the investor's hands. It was an unrealized gain because "every dollar of his investment, together with whatever accretions and accumulations have resulted … still remains the property of the company, and subject to the business risks which may result in wiping out the entire investment."
The same goes for any other unrealized capital gains, and so, they aren't income.
Defenders of wealth taxes have tried a different argument. They argue that wealth taxes are constitutional based on an opinion that predates the 16th Amendment, Knowlton v. Moore (1900). There, the court upheld an inheritance tax. Proponents of wealth taxes say inheritance taxes are the same thing.
But they aren't.
Critically, the court in Knowlton held that "[a]n inheritance tax is not one on property, but one on the succession." The court viewed the tax as attaching to the transfer of wealth.
In other words, when the money moved into the heirs' hands, the government could take its share. That's analogous to the IRS taking its share when you realize profit from selling stock. It's not analogous to the IRS demanding a share of money you don't yet have.
Or, as Sen. Joe Manchin (D–W.Va.) put it much more succinctly: "You can't tax something that's not earned. Earned income is what we're based on."
https://twitter.com/kresimirperkov2/status/1518856010760437761
Popular claims about various billionaires not paying their fair share in taxes tend to be based on the same sleight of hand Jayapal uses with Musk: calculating their tax rate based on a figure that includes unrealized gains.
Much of this is based on a ProPublica report last year which claimed that the top 25 richest Americans paid an average "true tax rate" of just 3.4 percent between 2014 and 2018 (with Musk's rate listed as 3.27 percent). This so-called "true tax rate" relied on calculations involving unrealized capital gains.
But the true tax rate "is a phony construct that exists nowhere in the law and compares how much the 'wealth' of these individuals increased from 2014 to 2018 compared to how much income tax they paid," noted the Wall Street Journal editorial board last summer:
But wealth and income are different, and what Americans pay is a tax on income, not wealth. ProPublica makes much of the fact that these billionaires pay a lower rate on capital gains and dividends than they do on income. The story suggests this is unfair, but it isn't.
The preferential rate for capital gains and dividends has been a central part of the tax code for decades, and for good reasons. Congress has wanted to encourage capital investment; assets are often held for decades and gains are only realized upon their sale; gains can't be adjusted for inflation over the years they are held; and investors can't deduct net capital losses from income beyond $3,000 a year. Bipartisan majorities have long supported this part of the tax code.
Jayapal's claim about Musk borrows this same phony construct.
Reason Editor in Chief Katherine Mangu-Ward has more here on why a wealth tax is a bad idea.
FREE MINDS
People are more likely to spread or condone misinformation if they believe it could be true at some point in the future, according to a new study published in the American Psychological Association's (APA) Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. "Misinformation in part persists because some people believe it. But that's only part of the story," said lead author Beth Anne Helgason. "Misinformation also persists because sometimes people know it is false but are still willing to excuse it."
In a series of experiments involving more than 3,600 participants in total, researchers with the London Business School read statements identified as false and then asked people how likely these statements were to be true at some point. They found that people were less likely to find making false statements unethical and more likely to share them on social media if they if they believed the statement could be true eventually.
APA summarizes the findings here; the full study can be found here.
FREE MARKETS
Why aren't lawmakers taking inflation seriously?
I'm concerned and a little bit shocked at how many people have simply refused to acknowledge that demand is too high and dollars are too plentiful.https://t.co/UhPY4fiNaf pic.twitter.com/4HWbhGHWyf
— Alan Cole (@AlanMCole) April 25, 2022
QUICK HITS
Trans adults are adults and should be allowed to decide for themselves which treatments to pursue without the meddling of politicians. https://t.co/0BBWNWszq5 via @reason
— Scott Shackford (Blue Checkmark) (@SShackford) April 25, 2022
• "A New York state judge on Monday held Donald J. Trump in contempt of court for failing to comply with a subpoena from the state attorney general's office," The New York Times reports.
• The Department of Homeland Security is broken and dangerous.
• More states are limiting the use of shackles on pregnant inmates giving birth, but there's still a lot of progress to be made, reports NPR. Last week, Tennessee's legislature became the latest state to limit the practice; the bill awaits the governor's signature.
• A new study challenges popular notions about YouTube and extremism, writes Reason's Liz Wolfe.
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Jayapal should be removed from office for such stupidity.
Certainly, she should not breed. An intellect she ain't.
Jayapal, Omar, and AOC are dumber than a fucking rock. The fact that they have significant influence is way more dangerous than any "insurrectionist" activities. Add in Bernie and Pocahontas, and the current democratic caucus is a real thing of beauty. All of the blue checkers want to remind us how dangerous Trump is, but I never recall any of his ideas being within 100 miles of this level of stupid.
And yet they have major influence on the new woke DNC.
The woke can do simple arithmetic, but not the more complicated mathematical calculations, like division or multiplication. They talk about numbers that exist in some sort of closed universe. Consider the '97% of all scientists agree that there is man-made global warming.' If we are ever able to track down where this number came from we will probably see toilet paper stuck to it.
Someone like Jayapal sees one number and has no ability to see it in relation to any other number except 'this one is bigger.' It explains the Build Back Better plans, the transitory inflation, and modern monetary theory.
A+
If they are so stupid, how come they are in congress raking in millions and influencing policy, and you aren't?
How do you legally make millions on a salary of about $175K?
It's only illegal if you get caught.
I might amend that to convicted. Not just caught.
I just figured out that Commenter_XY is Bob Menendez.
Who says I’m not?
A lack of integrity can be quite profitable at times, but I'll keep my integrity and earn my pile of cash the honest way.
What he said.
They're not stupid, they understand how propaganda works. Their goal is to put the attack into the public media, then other activists (including media groups and "reporters") can reproduce the claims without being responsible for their accuracy. Then left wingers (including the usual suspects here) can cite these as having come from these supposedly independent media all while their acolytes studiously ignore reality and pretend the assertions are true. How many left wingers will trail back to understand reality, care what reality is at all? Roughly speaking: zero.
This is how the game is played. Of course when Reps use the left's playbook the result miraculously transforms into "misinformation" and the same people playing this game pretend to oppose it.
Politicians love to lament misinformation and disinformation on social media…but they seem to make an exception for themselves. The latest case in point comes from Democrats' rhetoric around taxes paid by Elon Musk.
It would be a hilarious irony if that post got a "misinformation" tag attached to it. }:‑)
There's a long list of reasons she should be removed from office.
Musk paid an effective tax rate of 3.27%
Welcome your new Hitler, everyone.
Worst thing since the holocaust.
That was the thing that always pissed me off the most about Hitler. His low effective tax rate.
If you don't like it, make your own Hitler and charge him high taxes!
The Tesla and SpaceX CEO recently became progressive enemy of the week...
This one might last longer than a week.
It’s always a good idea to kill the geese that lay golden eggs.
They make good eating, with a revolutionary zest [in which case no one is thinking about tomorrow, though it will soon be here...].
It's okay. Tony said Space X is just a "shitty little pew-pew rocket company" and anyone can build electric cars.
LOL @ tony.
People are more likely to spread or condone misinformation if they believe it could be true at some point in the future...
ALL SCIENCE IS SETTLED
How does this square with the Hunter Biden laptop story? Did journalists think it would eventually turn from true to Russian Disinformation?
Their positions evolve over time.
Most likely. They were protecting democracy from Orange Hitler. When the stakes are that high, you have to keep your head in the clouds.
IT WAS TRUE THEN! And now that "new" information is available, alternative things might be true.
Listen, 30 or 99 or something national security experts like James Brennan and Alexander Vindman wrote a letter saying the laptop couldn't possibly be true. They are experts! Top men!
Jeff sees no problem of ex intelligence members using their past expertise to spread information under the guise of their expertise.
Never change jeff. Submit to the state and the narrative.
Check the handle again
Damnit. He got me.
100% chance he's smarter than the real one.
Not much of a hurdle.
The idea that the sun rotates around that earth was never true.
But for millennia is was "true." Even after Copernicus provided scientific evidence of the earths rotations around the sun [1543], it took a hundred years for it to sink in to society at large.
And Heisenberg pointed out that you could define the Earth as the center point of the universe, but it makes the math describing the motion of everything else really complicated.
Cute handle....the other chemjeff is gonna be all butt-hurt on this one.
Like the sign says, "democracy dies in darkness."
But it was supposed to be a warning, and not a game plan.
Imagine the shrieking if homeowners were taxed as income on the appreciation in value on their home every year, or the full value of their home as income like these dishonest hacks do every time the talk about wealth and taxes.
Or the full value of their home in property taxes.
Don't give my local school board any ideas.
Hey all those entitlements [Democratic wish list, from student loan forgiveness to UBI] aren't going to pay for themselves.
That's not what they keep telling us. Every dollar they hand out is returned threefold in terms of growth.
Or something synergistic [1 + 1 = 3]
Kareem Carr? Is that you?
Proposition 13 in CA.
A lot of unrealized gains in the stock market have disappeared today. That's why you don't tax them before they are realized.
And the unrealized gains in the housing market are going to vaporize soon too, with mortgage rates over 5% now.
Unfortunately, there was a time when unrealized gains on stock options were taxed. Then the dot-com bubble hit the fan and lots of people were suddenly bankrupt and/or homeless. I was lucky; my tax guy warned me about the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) trap and I sold my new stock immediately, before it had a chance to tank. Thus I had enough money from the proceeds to be able to afford the outrageous tax bill. See, for example, the LA Times 2001 story, "Tech Workers' Stock Options Turn Into Tax Nightmares".
Imagine the shrieking if homeowners were taxed as income on the appreciation in value on their home every year,
Imagine the shrieking when homeowners are taxed on the appreciation of the their homes.
Never forget OBL's First Law - this is not actually about taking money from billionaires.
They'll create a safe-harbor to ensure their own voters are never subject to the same rules. Good guys should never be subject to the same standards as bad guys.
Misinformation also persists because sometimes people know it is false but are still willing to excuse it.
KNOW IT IS FALSE
I'm concerned and a little bit shocked at how many people have simply refused to acknowledge that demand is too high and dollars are too plentiful.
Oh, excuse me if President Biden has fixed the economy too well.
A New York state judge on Monday held Donald J. Trump in contempt of court for failing to comply with a subpoena from the state attorney general's office...
Ladies and gentlemen, we got him.
The balls on that guy in not handing over documents that don't exist.
THE WALLS ARE CLOSING IN!
The walls are closing in!
Closing in, the walls are.
The walls have closed in more times than I have died from covid.
Their walls closing in protect your walls expanding. Did I do that right?
My walls protect you, your walls protect me.
Your walls close in on me, my walls close in on you.
Two weeks to close in the walls.
Why are the courts supporting subpoenas that have no foundation?
The chick ran on a platform of "I am going to get this one guy and anyone near him, not because I have any reasonable suspicion, but because I dislike his politics.
That should automatically put any court on high alert.... but somehow New York courts keep joining the team instead of being neutral arbiters. (Remember Sullivan?)
New Yorker courts aren't too cool with that rule of law thing when it interferes with elite interests, like revenge.
Even more ironic given courts desire to strike down Trump's EO's due to comments he made in his campaign.
I'm now starting a push to punish contempt of court with the death penalty. Justice will finally be served.
Tax law enthusiasts and finance gurus can quibble over whether an increase in the price of an unsold stock is an undeniable accession to wealth over which a taxpayer has complete dominion, but not even the world's best lawyer could argue that "unrealized" actually means "realized."
"Oh, very well. 'Unrealized' actually means '*potentially* realized'."
2+2=5
“It’s something you have that I don’t so you have to pay taxes on it.”
"It's something you have that I WANT."
Tax law enthusiasts and finance gurus can quibble over whether an increase in the price of an unsold stock is an undeniable accession to wealth over which a taxpayer has complete dominion, but not even the world's best lawyer could argue that "unrealized" actually means "realized."
I'm not sure how anyone could write something like this with a straight face. Something as trivial as the definition of a word doesn't stop Lefties from using the word improperly, and then just declaring their misuse to be the new, and only, definition.
To be fair, it is not as simple as ENB makes it seem. The real reason people are trying to claim this "Stocks are income" thing is that Musk took out a loan against those stocks, and these loans are tax free.
Let's say I have $200 Million in stock, and I take out $10 Million in loans. Those loans need to be paid back over 20 Years, so they are not actually income. But from the perspective of a Wage Slave, I just raked in $10 Million tax free. I used it to buy a house and buy a car, and fund some business that is also making me more money in income.
Of course, in order to pay off that $10 Million, I am at some point going to have to earn $20 Million or so, which gets taxed and then pays for interest and principal. The Taxes and Income were the cost of my loan. It is only because socialists with an axe to grind limit their analysis (2014 - 2018) that they can create these deceptive figures.
As others have shown, imagine if our house loans were treated the same way- In 2003 my family made $100,000 and paid $34,000 in taxes. We also bought a house for $450,000- with a $360,000 loan. According to NEW MATH, we actually earned $460,000 that year with an effective tax rate of 7.4%.
Of course this nonsense completely flies in the face of basic accounting rules. But whoever thought socialists were any good at accounting for anything but bodies and misery?
Okay fine, want to to be taxed on your HELOC? And then pay it back too, with interest? It's a loan, not income.
Agreed- I am just saying that it is not just about the wealth. Go into a conversation with these lefties talking about wealth, and they immediately say, "Nuh uh. He got a loan on that wealth which is income. TAX LOOPHOLE. Mic Drop!"
They've already successfully argued that equal protection means special treatment, how can anyone doubt they can make an argument that any rule does not in fact mean its opposite?
"It's time for a wealth tax in this country."
You know, the fun would *really* begin when we start taxing *privilege*.
I notice that they never, ever, point out that this 'logic' applies to every 401k on the planet.
Please don't give them ideas. They already want to tax people who choose to save money instead of running their lives on credit.
They already have the idea. They just need to market it as aimed at billionaires first.
If there's anything they can't stand, it's people having money they can't get their grubby hands on.
The irony is that the guy who enabled the sale of that stock to Musk probably walked home with more real, actual money in his pocket than Musk did.
They already have the idea. They just need to market it as aimed at billionaires first.
^
Only if you have a billion dollars.
I mean 100 million.
Did I say 100 million? 10 million is a lot, no one needs 10 million in a retirement account (yet).
We'll inflate our way to a broad tax base eventually anyway.
The Department of Homeland Security is broken and dangerous.
Unlike the individual alphabet agencies it oversees.
"and that it will help Donald Trump win the presidency in 2024"
LOL
Biden is the best President ever, the economy is amazing, and there's no way any Republican can win in 2024.
#LibertariansForBiden
Let's go Brandon!
Let's go Brandon, I agree.
Only the sharp intellect and quick wit of SleepyJoe can guide us in the right direction.
The difference between you and Joe Friday, is that he isn't funny.
Or smart.
Joe Friday isn't funny ha-ha, but he is funny weird.
Fuck Joe Biden with Joe Friday's 4 bit dick.
Joe Friday is funny like, "oh, look, the old man with dementia has taken off his pants again."
Groomer
That’s not what groomer means retard.
Chuck supports child molesters
Also the r word is offensive to aspie incels like Mother’s Lament
"Doth this offend you?" - John 6:61
Says the libertarians in OpenBordersLiberal-tarian big koch-obsessed mind.
LOL
More states are limiting the use of shackles on pregnant inmates giving birth, but there's still a lot of progress to be made...
Taking the shackles of the newborns still makes officers feel unsafe.
The Corrections Union has agreed to unshackle the babies, as long as people understand that this will greatly increase how many uncooperative babies are going to be shot.
"A New York state judge on Monday held Donald J. Trump in contempt of court for failing to comply with a subpoena from the state attorney general's office," The New York Times reports.
Another bombshell.
We've reached the tipping point.
The walls are closing in.
It's the beginning of the end.
#TrumpRussia
Nobody has ever done anything like this.
Yawn
"Why aren't lawmakers taking inflation seriously?"
Because they're on the same page as Reason's leading economics expert. They know the i-word is wingnut.com disinformation. The Biden economy is so wonderful, you see, that the only way to criticize it is to make stuff up.
#DefendBidenAtAllCosts
Wait, wait, wait OBL.
Spittin tobaccy is up. Even you said so.
I also want to report that Matzos was up for Passover. By box of 5 went from 6.49 to 8.29. We had some haperinflation with matzos.
Seder ain't what it used to be...
You should have bought spittin tobaccy instead, it only went up 10¢ a pouch.
"Spittin tobaccy is up"
We've been over this before, as Buttplug notes, the drilling rig count ameliorates the increase.
Shit, I forgot. Sorry ML. 🙂
Well, at least ENB isn't a total ditz brain....the blonde hair made me wonder. ENB did a good dissection of why that Jayapal lady is a total economic nutcase.
Just as the woke morphed the concept of equality into equity they have redefined democracy as rule by Democrats. In the new and correct meaning anything that changes the way Twitter is run is an attack on democracy.
Simple.
Hey words matter; as when racism was redefined from actual discrimination into white privilege [it was the best they could do after Obama was elected].
Maybe it was the white half of Obama that got elected, not the black half.
This is WRONG. It only applies to dividends which are paid in additional shares; a stock split of some sort. It does NOT apply to normal dividends paid in actual money.
I don't know who screwed up the quote, whether ENB or "GianCarlo Canaparo, a senior legal fellow with The Heritage Foundation".
Should be banned for misinformation.
For life, no Mulligans.
The quote accurately describes a stock dividend, as opposed to a cash dividend (which is what people think when they hear the word dividend without the stock qualifier). Stock qualifies the word dividend to signal that the dividend is paid in shares of stock.
You're correct that it functions the same way as a split. Effectively a dilution of price per share with the same overall dollar value in market cap, and the expected (hopefully) appreciation increases the value for shareholders via unrealized gains.
Thanks for the clarification. The original wording made no sense, so I googled it, found some legal mumbo jumbo, and translated it my own layman's mumbo jumbo.
It only applies to dividends which are paid in additional shares
Is that not what "stock dividend" means?
Yes, see Ska's comment above. I am no stock expert and was confused.
You read the quote wrong.
a stock dividend was not income
A stock dividend is definitionally not a cash dividend, it is a dividend received as stock. You're mis-reading this as any dividend coming from stock ownership.
https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1518782147405963265?s=20&t=snIw-uqKGyZw7qKyDg4gfw
Elon Musk buying Twitter is bad because using our own tactics against us is UNFAIR and BAD FOR DEMOCRACY.
Gee, I wonder where that guy got all those ideas on how to use social media to manipulate public opinion.
I went through around 40 replies. Not one leftist was willing to beclown themselves defending what this guy said. That's really saying something.
It's a pretty massive pile-on. Very encouraging.
One of my favorite responses is the MSNBC clip where they say "Elon Musk is trying to control what people think. That's our job."
And not just any MSNBC propagandist, but Mike Brzezinski, daughter of Zbigniew Brzezinski, who was in government when the US assisted the Iranian revolution, undermined USSR by assisting Eastern European militants, and supported the mujahideen in Afghanistan.
It’s quite a family.
Mika
dead-namer!
When they announced that Musk was buying Twitter, I opined that the establishment machine would come after him.
Today, this was at the top of my YouTube feed.
https://youtu.be/9lkQPpSOtz8
An anti-Musk chanel that I never heard of with a hit piece from his ex.
I have nothing in my history that would suggest I am interested in bitter ex wives, celebrity gossip or even personal details about Musk
I do follow space issues, so I see a lot about spacex.
But this video is quite old. And today? YouTube thinks I need to see it.
The same YouTube that is chaired by the guy who founded “The Groundwork”, a company designed to use social media backend tie-ins to win elections for team Clinton and the DNC.
But I am the crazy conspiracy theorist….
Total coincidence.
Also a coincidence..... 2 reddit threads on SpaceX launches had lefty anti Musk trolls posting this exact topic (not the video, but allegations about his first marriage).
The extra spin from the Tony types? "This is an example of how Musk uses his billions to censor the media. He completely hid his abusive marriage from the world.
I have found the entire episode with Elon Musk and Twitter absolutely fascinating. What will the sad-assed blue checkers do when 'deplorables' start tweeting at Elon's invitation?
Or trump returns to Twitter.
Epic.
It is really fascinating. I'm so glad it actually happened. For a while I thought it wasn't going anywhere.
They are already tearing their hair out on Ars Technica, even people who are ostensibly libertarian on surveillance issues.
Since I stopped commenting there there are no more libertarians at Ars Technica;)
They got rid of the libertarian writers long before that.
I kind of wish he could buy TikTok next. They're all announcing their #stunningbravery by deleting their Twitter accounts, and only using TikTok to satisfy their narcissistic need for attention and validation. If he bought TikTok, what would they do then?
Isn’t TikTok owned by CCP?
He completely hid his abusive marriage from the world.
Which is why this video is out there circulating on the internet.
Abusive, my ass. I read her Marie Claire piece, and she sounds like a college-hot-girl-turned-pampered-trophy-wife-turned-aging nag, talking about her "craving for intimacy" the Musk wasn't delivering, while name dropping all the celebrities she hung out with.
She gets AT LEAST $20K a month from him as a personal allowance, in addition to an "undisclosed amount of alimony." And she has no problem trading on his name. Jer entire claim to fame is being someone's ex wife.
They have a new anti musk documentary teed up already too. Like obituaries the left seems to have all the hit pieces ready to go at a moments notice.
Hey man, it’s just algorithms, what are you going to do?
Funny how these fuckheads never let that bother them when they were buying his $70-100K status symbols on wheels.
Subpoenas issued in GA For cleanest election ever. State has evidence on paid ballot harvesters.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/subpoenas-formally-issued-evidence-georgia-ballot-trafficking-case
Wisconsin investigators find at least 90 nursing homes with vote rates above 90% w some at 100%. After state officials allowed employees to vote w residents against state law.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/donald-trump-applauds-outstanding-wisconsin-special-counsel-2020
Now that tactic should be looked for in other states. I am quite sure that nursing home ballot harvesting is far more widespread than we think. To take advantage of the elderly who are incapacitated is just sick.
Some senior citizens in Florida said they were duped into changing their political party affiliation to Republican.
All of the victims were older than 65 and live in Miami-Dade County.
https://www.wbko.com/2022/02/04/florida-seniors-say-their-political-party-affiliation-was-switched-without-their-knowledge/
Were they forced to vote gop?
Everyone knows old folks don’t vote republican.
So what you are saying is that investigating electoral fraud and mismanagement should happen?
Did not see anything about votes being changed. At all. Did I miss that in your link?
Nah. Just another deflection from sir Strudel.
Well? Is this 'both sidism' from you?
About a year ago I found dozens of articles discussing the nursing home fraud going back at least 2 decades. Posted many of them when the usual leftists here claimed that was a lie.
It's either really unlikely that it only happened in WI, or they are true pioneers that will cause it to be used everywhere next time.
https://rumble.com/v1238uc-2000-mules-trailer.html
Meet Governing for Impact, a secretive soros backed group writing legislation and executive orders for democrats and the white house.
The group goes as far as to delist its web site from search results and seeks to remove any mentions of itself from search results.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/secretive-soros-funded-group-works-behind-scenes-biden-admin-policy-documents
Thanks for that link; otherwise I would have continued to have "never heard of it."
Of course given that Fox is the only media reporting on this, it will be conveniently ignored as "alternative" news. Much like Cuomo, until depositions over sexual impropriety couldn't be ignored [like all of the nursing home deaths he caused].
Normally don't post from fox but the story was interesting in how far they go to remain unknown despite the tens of millions they have to operate.
They are like the NY Post [Hunter Biden's laptop]; you wouldn't want to cite them as objective, but they are the only ones reporting any "inconvenient"[aka embarrassing to Democrats] news.
They both come up with more hard scoops than the so-called legitimate sources. Any reporting I see from any source comes with a lot of skepticism from me, but Fox and the Post do a way better job of finding facts than the other side does.
Fox definitely leans right in their coverage, but they don’t seem to outright lie like their left wing counterparts. They also do a much better job differentiating who their reporters are vs their editorial staff. Hannity doesn’t pretend he’s a reporter. Jim Acosta does.
Twitter welcomes back many banned users from the conservatives while losing such luminaries as Talcum X. How will the world survive.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/roundup-whos-back-on-twitter-after-musk-buyout-and-who-deleted-their-account
Msnbc laments how Twitter under Elon could ban politicians from its service and sway elections. Stated unironically.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/msnbc-host-now-complains-elections-could-be-swayed-through-twitter-censorship
Those claims are oddly specific.
That video was absolutely amazing. No sense of shame or irony at all.
Great line
“Hey, @AriMelber, serious question,” quipped digital strategist Greg Price. “I’ve been looking for a new rock to live under and was wondering which one you use.”
I saw that. Yeah, no one will notice if high profile politicians start to get blocked. And such a thing never happened before...
I don't know about that. "Shall not be infringed" has successfully been argued to mean "can be infringed," and "Congress shall make no law" has been successfully argued to mean "Congress can make laws."
So why can't "unrealized" be argued to mean "realized"? When it comes to government power, words mean whatever it takes to justify government action.
Yeah. For example, I'll make up a b.s. legal argument right here: "realized" gain should be interpreted as including a special category of "reasonable projected gains". I just made that up on the spot.
Probably a stronger argument against taxing unrealized gains is to ask if the government is then also going to give credits for unrealized losses.
Oh, I can do that standing on my head before breakfast with my eyes closed. Just interpret "arms" to mean "some arms". That part's not hard at all, since we commonly use a plural noun in such form to mean some of the totality potentially in existence. So the right to keep and bear arms is not being infringed unless all arms are prevented from being kept or borne. So as long as you're allowed to keep and bear some arms, there's no infringement of the right.
If you want to virtue signal like the cool kids, download the trans sans font today.
https://thefederalist.com/2022/04/26/to-prove-youre-inclusive-and-antiracist-download-the-trans-sans-font-today/
That has to be a joke.
Ya think?
I didn't even read the article, I just scrolled directly to the font samples. But it's hard to tell these days.
It is listed as humor. And it funny as all get out.
"That is all about to change. According to a press release from InclusiFonts®, the world’s first woke type foundry, zir hand-selected team of marginalized victim designers will begin releasing bias-free typography, beginning with the sans-serif font Trans Sans™.
When employing the Trans Sans font, the work of the writing person can mean one thing today and its opposite tomorrow. Or possibly neither. In fact, every time someone reads it, it will convey something different depending on its literary “identity.”"
J.C. Bourque is a recovering liberal whose rantings can be found in his book “Squeezed: Rear-Ended by American Politics.” If you didn’t care for this essay, you won’t like the book, either.
That IS funny!
On they came out with the pregnant man emoji all bets are off the table.
Once.
Pregnant man emoji.
Nothing is a joke anymore.
Right; try telling one at work and zee what happens
Eh, missed this.
I think it is. I can't find an example of the company in the article or online. But I don't know. I might just be missing it. I wanted to see if they charge for this font.
American Psychological Association's (APA) Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.
SO.... bullshit? The same journals with a less than 50% reproducibility rate where the findings are largely based on subjective interpretations?
An example of misinformation being 70% of democrats who according to polling last week say the 2016 election was stolen through Russian involvement?
That is largely true of all social science "research;" as long as you arrive at the "correct" conclusion, who's gonna look?
Scott Shackford (Blue Checkmark)
@SShackford
Trans adults are adults and should be allowed to decide for themselves which treatments to pursue without the meddling of politicians.
Isn't this the story that had the headline refuted in the first sentence of the article showing dishonesty?
Yes.
To be fair, that was yesterday, a long, long time ago.
It could be true in the future.
He feels like it's true. That's what matters.
It's emotionally true.
It's his Lived Experience.
"A New York state judge on Monday held Donald J. Trump in contempt of court for failing to comply with a subpoena from the state attorney general's office," The New York Times reports.
Generally when making a summary like this you should include the response from the other side. On this case trumpa team has turned over all materials but the judge determined without evidence that material was still being withheld. Trumps treat stated he doesn't use email in regards to his business relying on phone calls and in person meetings. The claimed unsent material is in regard to something not proven to even exist.
Generally when making a summary like this you should include the response from the other side.
That's stone-age journalism from the pre-Twitter era. Modern journalism for the modern era is simply taking juicy quotes from other articles and zingy tweets from blue checkmarks and gluing them together with a few conjunctions and the occasional exclamation.
Except 'modern journalists' don't know what "conjunctions" are.
conjunction function, what,s your function....? 🙂
The good old days.
Conjunction junction. Don't make me come over there and cancel you.
It has something to do with trains, right?
Conjunction junction, what's your function.
Facts don’t matter when discussing trump.
"We're fighting Literally Hitler here, people!!!"
Yeah, but the walls are closing in. It's the beginning of the end. The tipping point.
"Sounds like a challenge." - some asshat lawyer, probably
More like every ivy league law professor in the USA - - - - - - - -
THEY ARE ALL ASSHATS!
Of course they're "realized", as in, the government realizes you have something of value they want. If they weren't "realized" gains, how would anyone know that they existed at all?
I am sure that Shackford is also against infantilizing gays and trans people by state governments banning conversion therapy for willing adults.
This just in: San Francisco is under a flood watch from the massive melt of snowflakes in response to Musk's purchase of Twitter.
Film at !!:00!
they are finally doing something about the shit caked sidewalks?
The tears of the sky screamers will wash it all away.
Politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!'... and I'll look down and whisper 'No.'
"...(to use a vintage Trump-administration term)..."
TDS addled shitpiles like ENB just can't help themselves. Stuff it up your ass.
It had absolutely nothing to do with the subject but she had to fit it in. It's a religious duty at this point.
Like the gratuitous 'orangemanbad' speech at any H'wood get together.
Yet you're the only one super butthurt here...
Cry more snowflake.
One more TDS-addled shitpile who needs to emulate Wynn Bruce.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
Have you downloaded Trans Serif yet? I think you would find the keyboard shortcuts very helpful. You could write an entire post without ever typing any words.
"You're" isn't Sevo's pronouns, racist. Don't misgender him.
Elon Musk acquires TWTR
Finally! This is the great news that Black, gay and GOPProud men like Caitlin and Milo can celebrate. I can’t wait for my friends IvermectinDude420 and WhitePride1488 to post. What on Earth are they going to say? If there’s one thing this gay and Black man knows it’s that opinions on how Covid is a Chinese bio weapon are definitely underexposed. Just ask Ken.
Struggle harder, Shrike.
Yawn...
Do you believe in the 1st Amendment?
Musk pays his taxes. It's just that he doesn't have much of an income in the form of a wage or salary. One does not pay income tax on their wealth, they pay income tax on their income. Duh.
My personal wealth is around one million. That includes a home, plus retirement accounts, plus my car. I don't pay an income tax on that, I pay an income tax on my salary. That people think Musk should pay an income tax based on his total wealth is just silly.
Don't tax investments, or you don't get investments. People still stop investing if they get taxed on what they invested every year, year after year. They would make a far greater return by stashing it under their mattress. So don't tax Musk's investments, or ownership of shares, or other assets. Stop pretending that he has an income of 264 billion each year. He does not. Tax him instead on his income, that actual income he gets when he realizes gains.
Taxing unrealized gains is economic stupidity.
Bullshit- people will always invest because it's still gonna be the best way to grow your money. The money under your mattress will LOSE value due to inflation alone.
Same bullshit argument about raising taxes. "Well people just won't work hard anymore when they just go up a tax bracket."
It doesn't matter what tax bracket you have- there are always people that are gonna pole vault it just because they can. Musk could cease working entirely and have more money than anyone would know what to do with but he won't.
"It doesn't matter what tax bracket you have- there are always people that are gonna pole vault it just because they can."
And there's always some useless dirtbag like yourself, who is more than happy to mooch off them.
Unless - stay with me now - the wealth is taxes or the government tries negative interest rates to control hyperinflation.
Are you seriously dumb enough too to think you'd lose money investing vs. under the mattress? It's only taxed on GAINS, not the entire amount. JFC. Big brain shit here.
He's not talking about stuffing money in a mattress, you future bullet-eater.
And the whole thing everyone is talking about is not taxing actual gains but paper ones.
"...Big brain shit here..."
Not in anything posted by you, asshole.
Fuck off and die.
The problem is the tax system is not based on just raising revenue necessary to run the government, it is also being used to regulate the economy and influence good morality (charitable deductions). The 3 goals conflict with each and create favored classes. Homeowner with deductions for mortgage interest and property taxes are favored over renters. Some business' are favored over others. Only a minority of taxpayers actually paid income taxes, it is why I think Jaypal's 13% is suspect.
But for politicians this is a feature and not a bug. It allows them to rage against the rich to get votes while giving well off people breaks.
it is also being used to regulate the economy and influence good morality (charitable deductions)
Not being taxed on money you gave away and got no use from is a supposed tax break? You have to give away 100% to save that marginal tax rate. Not sure where that is any kind of 'break'.
The tax break is given to non-profit organizations.
money you gave away and got no use from
Like when you give money to the Clinton foundation?
Yeah. I agree with that first point. I wish things were viewed as "this is what government is going to cost, how do we raise this?" and less "Let's raise as much money as possible and spend to that level. What's the least harmful way of doing that?"
Though, I suppose the dream would be that we actually were even spending only to the level of tax intake.
I propose limiting any year's budget strictly to the amount of taxes collected in the previous year. Unless the country has actually been invaded by a foreign power.
it is why I think Jaypal's 13% is suspect.
Especially since it's supposed to be "working class". The working class pays negative income tax, i.e. they receive refundable tax credits.
"US climate activist dies after setting himself on fire outside supreme court"
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/apr/25/climate-activist-death-supreme-court-fire-washington
Thereby making his family proud, his dog happy and the world a better place. Not to mention setting an example which turd, Tony, Joe Asshole and others should follow.
Did he purchase a carbon offset first?
If not he is/was also a hypocrite.
They all are.
I see that and it really drives home the religious fervor of a certain portion of the environmental movement. It's a common observation now, but it's still good to recognize it.
Pray for that fella's soul, he sounds like he was a wayward son.
"I see that and it really drives home the religious fervor of a certain portion of the environmental movement..."
Agreed. These are people who use the term "mother earth" un-ironically; they may claim to an atheism, but reveal otherwise.
If all other climate activists did this, carbon emissions would fall more rapidly, and left wing activism would diminish (a win win).
Might not be 3.27% but it's still far too low. The guy has more money than he or anyone would ever know what to do with (besides massively overpaying for a social media company).
We not only condone this kind of wild earning but we encourage it. It's not hard to think that someone who benefits to that kind of astronomical amount due to society can give some back. Owing taxes of whatever billions means jack shit when he is worth what, 260 billion?
Stop sucking off the wealthy you Koch nut huggers- they can fight for themselves. We should be taxing them appropriately.
So you think 54.1% is too low?
Is this real? Is this a parody?
You do know he just paid more taxes than any human in history, right? Voluntarily. He literally sold stock just ti create a taxable event.
And you don't get to be a billionaire like that by benefitting from society. You do it by building something. On his case, many somethings. He built something that saves the nation billions of dollars in launch costs at spacex. And he employs thousands doing it.
He is building a system to bring internet to anyone, anywhere on the planet. That will produce economic benefits beyond measure. But it will also produce many billions in revenue. Billions that are taxed at all levels.
He pays his fair share, and then some.
Is this real? Is this a parody?
Considering you can find thousands of comments at the NYT, WaPo and NPR that voice the exact same sentiment, does it matter?
You can't lampoon Progressives. They will never be satisfied with anything less than full-blown Stalinist one-party rule.
Cope, seethe, and dilate, hicklib.
Why should that kind of earning not be encouraged? And how to you figure that simply having more assets means that more should be taken from a person?
He's rich because he took a big risk and worked extremely hard. And you think the government should grab it just because it's there?
Who's we?
https://thepostmillennial.com/watch-white-house-blames-texas-for-death-of-national-guardsman-while-rescuing-drug-smugglers
Jen Psaki's statement on Texas NG soldier who drowned trying to rescue illegals:
"I would note that the National Guard works for the states, so he is an employee of the Texas National Guard, and his efforts and his operation were directed by there, not by the federal government in this effort and this apparatus."
It's truly mind boggling just how incredibly bad this administration is at every single thing it does. It's really not that hard to make a statement of condolence, containing all the appropriate condolence words. You'd think the administration would have a boilerplate condolence script that they could just whip out and cut and paste. It doesn't even have to be an official condolence, just say words that aren't the shittiest possible thing you could say.
Their complete and utter incompetence would be comical if it wasn't so terrible for the country as a whole.
In this case, it seems to be disdain for the American people beyond their incompetence. They really don't give two shits about us, or what their policies do to us. If a few Guardsmen or Border Patrol agents die in order for all the NGO's run by democrats to steal from us to resettle migrants, that's the price that must be paid. They truly are horrible pieces of shit in charge.
They obviously hate us. In fact, they hate us so much that they can't even manage a veneer of compassion.
The best thing Trump ever did was rip the veneer away and force them to expose themselves for who they really are.
And now Musk is causing every blue check from the biggest names to the most obscure publicly stating free speech is bad, without even trying to disguise it in the usual slop of protecting people from "mis-" or "disinformation."
Controlling the narrative means allowing only one version to exist. A big lie cannot entertain competition.
She is the worst press secretary I am aware of. No charisma, always seems disorganized and unprepared, and basically not even the appearance of empathy.
FFS Kamala Harris can pretend to care better than she can.
Shits [Biden] and Giggles [Harris]
She’s such a condescending bitch it’s a wonder she’s never had it slapped right out of her.
Representative Paypal is incorrect.
How are people to understand that while I'm against Russian hegemony over border countries, I'm not in favor of Ukraine's current, or likely short-term future, own governance? And why do political sides have to line up over such dichotomies (as with CoVID-19 as well)?
Lending institutions seem to have been applying the same concerted tactics in France as in the USA, there eschewing credit for LePen's party. So the party was driven to get a loan from a bank which is rumored to be an instrument of corruption for Russian leadership. So that makes her pro-Putin in the current war?
"I'm not in favor of Ukraine's current, or likely short-term future, own governance?"
So if a country is not up to your standards, fuck 'em?
Are you going to go save them from Russia?
Premise:
It is the proper role of the state to serve as moral guardians for the youth of the nation.
The state should protect children from dangerous ideas which would corrupt the youth, by trying to shield them as much as possible. While the state should give wide latitude to parents to raise their children, ultimately this parental authority has limits; if absolutely necessary, the state should override parental authority and criminalize behavior which would lead to harm to the child. This harm includes not just physical harm, but also harm in the form of learning about dangerous ideologies. Teaching kids about these dangerous ideologies is morally no different than literal "grooming" and should be treated as if it were child abuse by the state.
Agree? Disagree? Discuss.
Note: I don't necessarily subscribe to this premise myself, I present it for discussion purposes only.
Like encouraging them to switch genders? There are no absolutes on the parental rights by any means, but the parents have WAY more moral authority than any state actors. There is almost nothing in schools that parents shouldn't have the right to override. Schools are for learning math, science, english, and real skills. It's pretty difficult for an ideology to actually harm the child.
Jeffy is a dishonest piece of garbage. He's not presenting this for "discussion purposes only," because absolutely no one has made this argument at all. However, because that is the only argument he is prepared to refute, he's trying to force it to happen. He spent hours studying leftist blogs and he doesn't want his time to have been wasted.
Whatever man. You are the one yesterday arguing in bad faith, trying to shift the burden of proof onto me, refusing to answer direct questions that I asked, while continually accusing me of being in favor of horrible crimes like child sexual abuse. I was the one who acted with decorum while you acted like a typical Internet troll. Who is really the "dishonest piece of garbage" here?
No, you've been clear that you are against child sex abuse - as long as that is narrowly defined according to your tastes.
So having a child do burlesque in a faux strip club environment for grown men's appreciation is not abuse - by your definition.
^ This.
He has no problems with little boys doing peeler shows and strip teases for adult men. Just with some sort of amorphous "child sexual abuse" he never clearly defines.
He actually said it was fine because the child "wasn't coerced," and wasn't sexually assaulted, which I'm taking as his favored definition of child sexual abuse. So, based on that definition, as long as no one sexually assaults him, it's perfectly fine to allow/encourage your child to perform in a highly sexualized environment for the entertainment of adults.
You are a liar.
I never said it was "okay" for that child to do what he did. In fact I even used the word "creepy" to describe it.
The question always was whether it ought to be ILLEGAL.
You refused directly to address this point, preferring instead to demagogue the issue instead of discussing it rationally. You wanted to stoke performative outrage. You're the troll.
It can't be said enough, in just about every other context, it would be sexual exploitation of a child. But, because it's a "drag kid," we're all supposed to be okay with this.
while continually accusing me of being in favor of horrible crimes like child sexual abuse.
Someone who whines when child molestors don't get to claim refugee status is a supporter of child sexual abuse, you fat pedophile pig.
whose morals?
Premise:
It is the proper role of the state to serve as moral guardians for the youth of the nation
"The problem with education is [that since the 1960s] we've been teaching children WHAT to think instead of HOW to think."
Personally, I believe that any "moral lessons" from the state should be minimal. Example: For most of human history slavery was not only uncontroversial, it was considered a perfectly normal state of affairs. What would have been the "moral lessons" from the state during that period of human history?
This puts me in mind of the notion that every moral position that mainstream, polite society holds on any controversial topic (race, sex, gender, minorities, children, marriage, family structure, parental rights, religion) is the Correct Way of Thinking.
We have solved all the vexing moral problems, and we have reached The End of History. There is nothing we're doing today that is widely agreed up on as correct and moral that we'll look back on in 20, 50, 100, 200 years and say, "Good god, what were they thinking?"
Interesting. I think I take a lower view on humanity. In particular, I think we have a growing dehumanizing culture that is going to lead to some other eugenics type movement. I think certain portions of Wokism have this as well. It will be combined with the extremely technocratic feel of this age until we get some other atrocity again.
On the other side, I'm biased and I actually hope we're able to feel "Good God, what were they thinking" about things like the Uighur genocide.
But doesn't that reinforce my point? Up until ~2015 it was Widely Agreed that you shouldn't judge people based upon the color of their skin or other immutable characteristics. Now it's considered racist or sexist to NOT do that.
Hence I argue, leave the morality to the individuals to work out, don't create a state morality program, because when you thought you were being all progressive and forward-thinking to not judge your neighbor based on his race, you realized you were being a Nazi.
It could be I'm misunderstanding your point. At the most it appears to be a disagreement on underlying philosophy rather than practical application of said beliefs.
Also, I'm not super confident we won't have institutional capture that will push a large change in some way or another. Everything in politics seems to be pushing towards a less-federated system and that is a shame. A damn shame.
This is pretty much it. Which goes back to the thesis: We fucked up when we started teaching kids WHAT to think instead of HOW to think. I argue the former is the less federated system, whereas the latter is much more federated.
We fucked up when we started teaching kids WHAT to think instead of HOW to think
Religion teaches one what to think, and Marxism is the religion of the Humanist. Florida has it right. Every state needs to prohibit the teaching of political philosophy in public schools.
“ Religion teaches one what to think, and Marxism is the religion of the Humanist. Florida has it right. Every state needs to prohibit the teaching of political philosophy in public schools.”
This coming from someone who’s cunt friend indoctrinates her students with Mormon fascist ideology.
Mormonism is political. It promotes a fascist theocratic government. It needs to be eliminated.
You started this war motherfucker. Don’t be surprised when pregnant Mormon women’s wombs are being sliced open with machetes.
The American public will be on my side because the majority of Americans are decent people.
You started this war motherfucker.
Your uncontrollable need to publicly display your impotence gets a chuckle out of me every time. Keep it up, kid.
“ Your uncontrollable need to publicly display your impotence gets a chuckle out of me every time. Keep it up, kid.”
Don’t sexualize me you perv! You’re a perv just like all the other Mormon child molesters your church has covered up!
GROOMER!!!!
“Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.” - Isaiah 1:18
every moral position that mainstream, polite society holds on any controversial topic (race, sex, gender, minorities, children, marriage, family structure, parental rights, religion) is the Correct Way of Thinking.
I remember when little boys could play with dolls and it didn't make them any less of a boy and any other opinion was chauvinist caveman thinking. Boy did that change.
It's revealing that when liberal political goals change "the science" changes as well.
Personally, I believe that any "moral lessons" from the state should be minimal.
I broadly agree. But I also think it is important to recognize that the status quo also represents a type of moral lesson.
There are those who think that "gender is fluid" and that this is THE morally correct position, and that teaching kids anything else is not just wrong but dangerous, as it implicitly tells kids who are "gender non-conforming" that they are damaged, wrong, deviant, immoral, etc.
And then there are those who think that gender is a strict binary concept determined by biological sex, and that this is THE morally correct position, and that teaching kids anything else is not just wrong but dangerous, as it constitutes a type of "grooming".
Both of these points of view have some validity to them, but the problem here is that both are presented with a strong dose of moralism on the side. In terms of what a proper education should deliver, I think it ought to present both, plus other valid ones that fall outside of the two binary examples that I presented. They don't have to be presented necessarily as 50:50 equal (because they are not, IMO), but they should both be presented.
Would you find this to be an acceptable compromise for how to teach kids in school about concepts like gender?
Would you find this to be an acceptable compromise for how to teach kids in school about concepts like gender?
I somehow stumbled my way through public school without any lessons on "gender" whatsoever. And I certainly didn't have counselors, waiting at the ready to suggest medical intervention for any kids that did have questions about their sexuality or gender. We're losing our minds.
Bizarrely, sexuality and sex education didn't take place until puberty or thereabouts, which seems to make some degree of sense. Too early and it, despite any argument, is not really comprehended. Too late, and if there was to be a health aspect, then some students needed the information earlier.
If public schools are to exist, they should stay away from controversial subjects as much as possible. I think that's the best you can do. Yes, the status quo is a sort of moral framework. But it's the one we already exist in and doesn't require exposing young children to a new ideology that many of their parents may disagree with or find downright offensive or immoral.
I tend towards giving pretty wide-berth to parental rights. This is included in my ideal of school choice. As much as I might disagree with a Woke (define it however makes you feel good, dog) curriculum and I hope to have kids someday so they can receive the classical education I never did, parents should be allowed to make that choice.
What are the limits to this? I don't know. There's easy cases: a parent can't murder there kids or whatever. There's hard cases: does gender ideology rise to the level of full sexual abuse.
I think my belief is based around two ideas:
1) good ideas actually do win out in the end.
2) Government is not a good tool for fine-grained salvation.
There's a lot of people out there with bad ideas, with consequentially bad ideas. Government is not well situated to deal with that, and building a government that attempts to do so tends to create the tools for those wrong ideas to assert themselves more. Institutions nearly always captured in the long run.
What we have as tools are argumentation. By keeping things local and preventing too large scale assertion of power by government, you can minimize the damage done by stupid trends and hysteria as we argue and push for a correction.
I'm glad to see you back around. Appreciate the thoughtful and civil commentary.
Love you too, buddy.
Bad starting premise. Everything that follows is incorrect.
The state should protect children from dangerous ideas which would corrupt the youth,
In reality the state is indoctrinating children with these ideas and therefore it's appropriate for a more responsive arm of the state to stop them. Note the ultimate left wing position: it's fine for government to push any position leftists favor, but illegitimate for anyone else to oppose this.
Once someone accepts the principle that government can push ideas they cannot logically assert government cannot oppose it. But by splitting the issues and insisting people address only one they pretend this makes sense. This is sophistry and why we should simply reject outright such dishonest speakers.
“Note the ultimate left wing position: it's fine for government to push any position leftists favor, but illegitimate for anyone else to oppose this.”
Lying Jeffy’s position in a nutshell.
“It is the proper role of the state to serve as moral guardians for the youth of the nation.”
No, it isn’t, just like it’s not the proper role of the state to provide education in general.
But as long as the government is ignoring that anyway, they’re going to be raising kids. Moral decisions will be made in public school. Who gets to make those decisions?
Public school teachers work for taxpayers, who ostensibly should be deciding what morals are taught in a public school. If we’re going to ignore taxpayers and do whatever teachers want, then, it’s definitely not democratic, and we might as well ignore taxpayers and do the right thing: end the public school system.
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1518276445335961605?s=20&t=5RB_EXPy7G59HPI-WWZvoA
"Conservatives humanize babies by putting gender on them to stop people from having abortions."
LibsofTikTok is the best thing on the internet right now.
Nothing worse than humanizing babies.
It's just a clump of cells till it starts paying taxes.
Then it's just an older tax-paying clump of cells.
Um, that dude even went so far as to suggest that a fully formed baby, outside the womb is still not fully human. No shit LibsOfTikTok is the most important twitter channel in the history of the Solar System.
I saw a video on there with a guy saying abortion is fine up to 10 months after birth. There are actual people who believe this.
Yes, it is true. There are people who believe in outright infanticide.
But the real question is, do such people represent the mainstream liberal viewpoint?
You can find random conservatives who have some truly abhorrent beliefs. They exist. Do they represent the mainstream conservative viewpoint?
In both cases, the answer is no.
That's almost not the point. The point is, they exist and pointing out they exist is considered a problem worthy of a long Washington Post Doxxing.
I don't believe for a minute the this dude's view is a mainstream view with the left.
But when it's considered within the WaPo's "journalistic standards" to send investigative reporters to the family members of an account holder that merely retweets, without comment or edit the thoughts of randos on tiktok, you need to rethink your journalistic standards.
Grooming kindergarteners didn't used to be a mainstream leftist viewpoint either.
Not in schools, anyway. It's been going on in left-wing Hollywood for decades.
Which ironically Lying Jeffy supports.
No. Today.
But they didn't exist yesterday and if we are not vigilant who is to say that tomorrow they will not be the mainstream?
They are mainstream enough that the interviewer was able to find several people who thought that "abortion" up to 7 days after birth was just fine.
The 'right' tends to condemn those who have 'abhorrent' beliefs, as they are after all conservative. The 'left' either makes excuses, denies the existence of, or engages in other practices that avoid accountability. Your argument may be true, but misses the meat of the matter.
Why do transgender people seem so intent on correlating fingernail polish and earrings with gender?
And after many years I remain unclear on why your name is both Diane and Paul. with a period.
Because Transgender ideology is misogyny in drag.
His original handle was Paul., as I recall. "Diane Reynolds" was Chelsea Clinton's pseudonym on her email account in Hillary's server, and Paul just incorporated that in to his screenname.
And completely coincidental, Dee’s last name is also Reynolds.
I like this one quote I saw people passing around awhile back. I think it was from PornHub or something, I'm not clear, but it was someone responding to some fetish porn and saying "It's not long before pregnancy porn becomes nothing but a carrot on the stick of facism."
People are more likely to spread or condone misinformation if they believe it could be true at some point in the future, according to a new study published in the American Psychological Association's (APA) Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. "Misinformation in part persists because some people believe it. But that's only part of the story," said lead author Beth Anne Helgason. "Misinformation also persists because sometimes people know it is false but are still willing to excuse it."
Were the psychologists able to determine absolute truth from absolute falsehood in their dataset?
I'd like to get the good Psychologists to give me a rundown on their thoughts on... oh, something uncontroversial, such as Ivermectin.
"Misinformation in part persists because some people believe it. But that's only part of the story," said lead author Beth Anne Helgason. "Misinformation also persists because sometimes people know it is false but are still willing to excuse it."
Misinformation is an ironically vague term used out of ignorance or used with the intention to deflect, distract or dissemble. There are many ways to properly characterize information: fact, theory, hypothesis, conjecture, rumor, propaganda, disinformation, and falsehood (lie). But there is no misinformation. There is only information and people too stupid or lazy to verify its accuracy.
What word would you use to describe the Book of Mormon?
Falsehood and Propaganda both work.
Wasn't that also the headline of the DNC website?
I don’t read the DNC website. I’m not a democrat.
Again I believe you’re mistaken.
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber." - John 10:1
What word would you use to describe the Bible, the Koran, the Vedas, the writings of Confucius, the Torah or any other religious text?
Falsehood and Propaganda both work.
It’s offensive you would compare those religions to your racist tripe written by a proven fraud.
Grow up you bigot
"And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." - Moroni 10:5
Objections?
Moroni is a fictional character created by a proven fraud. Not my fault you’re too god damn fucking stupid to figure that out.
The irony of you calling anyone a bigot and telling them to grow up escapes you.
We choose truth over facts.
I can't believe a democrat lied.
It's just not possible.
Next thing someone will claim masks don't stop the Communist Chinese Virus.
"People are more likely to spread or condone misinformation if they believe it could be true at some point in the future"
Like
"COVID comes from a leak in a Chinese bioweapons lab illegally funded in part by the US government"?
Or
"Masks are ineffective at stopping the spread of COVID because no one is using the appropriate type of masks ( instead they're wearing t-shirt over their faces) and don't wear them properly anyway"?
Things are looking up for the Pizza gate people.
Or maybe "The FBI was on the ground on 1/6" or "The election was stolen"
Yes, the FBI was completely ignorant of the crowd that walked in front of their HQ building which stands on the street that runs between the White House and the Capitol.
Dead capitol police: 0
Dead Mormon Beaverton police burning in hell: 1
Scoreboard! magic underwear bitch BOY!
LOLOL I feel your pain, you little twat 😀
You mean you feel Magic underwear bitch boy’s pain.
I don’t have any dead pig friends currently in hell because I’m not friends with any pigs.
I’m not a fascist like Chuck. Why he’s on a libertarian website is beyond me. He supports theocratic government.
I could never generate as much sympathy towards my religion as you do. Your efforts will be noted on the other side.
In the Telestial Kingdom?
I’m not worried because that was preached by a proven fraud.
If there is an afterlife I’ll be rewarded for fighting against evil like your church and it’s members.
You Mormons started this war.
“generate sympathy”
I’m proud the fascist bigots and traitors on here don’t like me.
It means I’m a decent person who supports my country despite its flaws.
"For what doth it profit a man if a gift is bestowed upon him, and he receive not the gift? Behold, he rejoices not in that which is given unto him, neither rejoices in him who is the giver of the gift." - Doctrine and Covenants 88:33
Your pervert Heavenly Father isn’t real. Go back to Utah you racist, homophobic, transphobic, bigoted waste of life.
Did Shackford give himself a blue checkmark?
I have no idea how twatter works.
No, there's some team at Twitter that determines it. Typically, it happens when someone gets enough of a following that they need to prevent spoofers from hijacking their public name. Press figures at established publications tend to get them automatically since they're ostensibly reflecting their employer in an official capacity.
Finally, something positive about VP Harris.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/26/politics/kamala-harris-positive-covid/index.html
Democratic Sens. Chris Murphy of Connecticut and Ron Wyden of Oregon both also announced they had tested positive as well on Tuesday
A Devil's triangle in which ol' Satan himself would decline to participate.
Crappo, Romney, and Lee is the racist, anti-LGTBQ+, pervert worshipping, fascist triangle.
I’ll take incompetent Harris, warmongerer Coons, and Wyden.
Likewise, I could never make you look as much the fool as you do with your flaccid insult comedy.
You support Lee who said the solution to clime change is to procreate.
You fascists don’t even hide the fact you’re trying to outbreed us and take over.
"A wicked doer giveth heed to false lips; and a liar giveth ear to a naughty tongue." - Proverbs 17:4
Almost forgot your daily reminder that your dead pig buddy is burning in hell and his cunt wife, cunt daughters, and fascist son will too.
lol Karens tears must be flowing lately with the news about twatter, Cunt News Network+ and others 😀
I don’t use Twitter or watch CNN.
You have me confused with someone else
A human?
Your boring! STOP BORING EVERYONE!
"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven." - Ecclesiastes 3:1
Tell that to the Mormons. They’re the ones who need Jesus. They worship a phony pervert Jesus.
Didn’t she get it already?
Is it ok to say she deserves it like Herman Cain?
*YouTube Algorithms Don't Turn Unsuspecting Masses Into Extremists, New Study Suggests*
However, an even newer study suggests that YouTube algorithms have turned perhaps a significant majority of unsuspecting authoritarian-inclined fake libertarian Reason commenters into fucking Trump zombies.
That's rich coming from someone who tried to downplay Cuomo's disastrous scandals. Repent of your wrongs.
LOL..... Now tell us how much Tesla has received by Gov-Gun theft of normal citizens for the 'Green Energy' [WE] mob.........
Why Solar Energy is subsidized almost 50% right at the counter. Never-mind the subsidies the factory gets... Never-mind the market advantage of monopolizing the energy from other resources by Gov-Guns. I find it quite humorous that a Nazi-Regime built powerhouse like Tesla has turned against them.... In theory anyways.
If solar energy is such a great thing, why does it require government subsidies at all? Same for wind farms, and other "green energy."
Democrats should be forced to actually define "Fair Share." That is a dog whistle argument to stir up resentment from the middle and lower class citizens.
The top 1% of earners pay 39% of taxes in the US already, while the top 10% pay over 50% of the income taxes, and the top 50% pay over 96% of income taxes.
'Popular claims about various billionaires not paying their fair share in taxes tend to be based on the same sleight of hand Jayapal uses with Musk: calculating their tax rate based on a figure that includes unrealized gains.' Popular, and populist. Bernie and the rest of the dim bulb progressive/socialist team often fall back on this claim, because it gets an emotional reaction from their dim cult followers. This is, very likely, why propublica published the dishonest article that is the source of jayapal's ludicrous claim.