The Politics of DNA
Do genetic differences require us to embrace progressive politics?

The Genetic Lottery: Why DNA Matters for Social Equality, by Kathryn Paige Harden, Princeton University Press, 312 pages, $29.95
"Luck," E.B. White once said, "is not something you can mention in the presence of self-made men." They worked hard, no doubt, to get where they are. But they also benefited enormously from good fortune, not just in life but in life's building blocks. A fortunate combination of thousands of slight genetic differences boosted their intelligence, motivation, openness to experience, task perseverance, executive function, and interpersonal skills.
"Like being born to a rich or poor family, being born with a certain set of genetic variants is the outcome of a lottery of birth," the behavioral geneticist Kathryn Paige Harden argues in The Genetic Lottery. "And, like social class, the outcome of the genetic lottery is a systemic force that matters for who gets more, and who gets less, of nearly everything we care about in society."
Harden's book can be divided into three parts. The first is an introduction to behavioral genetics, the science of how differences between individuals arise through the interaction of their genes and their environments. The second is an insightful critique of social science researchers who refuse to consider genes' effects, showing how this leads them astray when devising interventions to ameliorate social ills. And the third is an argument, light on details, that genetic inequality can "be used to make the case for greater redistribution of resources."
Behavioral geneticists construct polygenic indexes, numbers that summarize how the cumulative effects of small differences in genes contribute to complex traits. Those traits correlate with outcomes relevant to how well people's lives are likely to go, among them adult height, cardiovascular disease risks, physical strength, longevity, and—key to Harden's argument—educational attainment.
"In the US today, whether one is a member of the 'haves' or the 'have-nots' is increasingly a matter of whether or not one has a college degree," Harden writes. "If we can understand why some people go further in school than others do, it will illuminate our understanding of multiple inequalities in people's lives." Many people who do not go to college nonetheless make decent livings. But a recent analysis by Georgetown University's Center on Education and the Workforce found that the median lifetime income of college graduates in the U.S. is $2.8 million. For Americans who get only a high school diploma, it's $1.6 million.
Since 1970, Harden notes, rising percentages of U.S. students from each income quartile have been completing college degrees by age 24. But today 62 percent of students from the top income quartile finish college, while only 16 percent in the lowest quartile do. The results were similar in a 2018 study that constructed a polygenic index for educational attainment: Students whose polygenic indexes were in the top quarter of the distribution were nearly four times more likely to graduate from college than those in the bottom quarter.
Harden cites another study that found 27 percent of children with the lowest polygenic scores whose fathers' incomes were in the top quartile graduated from college, compared with 24 percent of children with the highest polygenic scores whose fathers' incomes were in the bottom quartile. "Poor childhood environments appear to squander the human potential of individuals with favorable genetic endowments by preventing access to increasingly lucrative educational pathways," the researchers concluded. So socioeconomic status clearly makes a significant difference too.
Harden has little patience with many progressives' notion that "we already know what to do" to improve lives and lessen social and economic inequalities. In fact, she writes, there is no "vast repertoire of policies and interventions that have been proven to be effective at addressing social inequalities in education and health and that are just waiting in the wings to be deployed, if we can only muster sufficient political will." Around 90 percent of the educational interventions evaluated by the Department of Education, for example, "produced weak or no positive effects."
Harden suggests that such interventions often fail because researchers are not taking into account the ways "genetic and environmental factors are braided together." A 1995 "word gap" study, for instance, found that poor children hear, on average, 30 million fewer words than kids from higher-income families do by age 3. This research had a huge impact: A scan of Google Scholar finds that it has been cited nearly 11,000 times by other studies. The Obama administration endorsed the findings in 2014, declaring that the gap "can lead to disparities not just in vocabulary size, but also in school readiness, long-term educational and health outcomes, earnings, and family stability even decades later." Governments have spent millions trying to close the gap.
Yet nearly every word-gap study ignores the fact that parents are genetically related to their children. Harden notes an exception: a 2016 study that found children in higher-income families also tended to have higher polygenic scores. Children with higher polygenic scores tended to say their first words at a younger age and were stronger readers by age 7, regardless of their families' socioeconomic status. (A recent article in Child Development challenged the word-gap studies' general validity: Its authors found that the number of words heard by young children is much greater when you count those spoken by all household members, and the differences were not predicted by family income.)
As Harden observes, many academics believe that "discussing genetic causes of social inequalities is fundamentally a racist, classist, eugenic project." One colleague told her that conducting research on genetics and education made her "no better than a Holocaust denier." But parsing genetic differences need not lead to pernicious eugenic conclusions.
Eugenics, Harden explains, "asserts that there is a hierarchy of superior and inferior human beings, where one's DNA determines one's intrinsic worth and rank in the hierarchy." Such reasoning was used to justify compulsory sterilization laws in 32 states during the 20th century; more than 60,000 Americans were involuntarily sterilized as a result. As the philosopher Elizabeth Anderson has observed, "People, not nature, are responsible for turning the natural diversity of human beings into oppressive hierarchies."
Just as most people are apt to think sleep when they hear bed, Harden notes, Americans too often think race when they hear genes. She rightly rejects racist notions about population differences: "It's wrong to assume that research on the genetic causes of individual differences within a population gives us information on the causes of group differences." She points out that most polygenic scores have been developed among individuals of European ancestry and thus have limited generalizability across other populations.
Indeed, Harden argues that the "science of human individual differences is entirely compatible with a full-throated egalitarianism." She asks, "Why are inequalities that are related to your genes more acceptable than inequalities rooted in the social circumstances of your birth?" After all, "Both are accidents of birth, forms of luck over which a person has no control."
Then Harden offers her thoughts on how to apply insights from behavioral genetics to create a more equal society. She relies chiefly on the philosopher John Rawls' notion of the "difference principle," according to which social and economic inequalities are just if they are arranged so that they provide the greatest benefits to the least advantaged members of society. In Harden's words, "Society should be structured to work to the advantage of the people who are least advantaged in the genetic lottery."
Harden acknowledges that the last two centuries have seen "enormous gains in life span, literacy, wealth, [and] well-being that ultimately worked to everyone's advantage." From 1820 to 1992, she notes, global average per capita incomes grew eightfold, and the share of people living in extreme poverty dropped from 84 percent to 24 percent. (Updating her figures to 2018, global per capita incomes had risen tenfold since 1820 and extreme poverty had fallen to less than 9 percent.) How did this happen? Harden mentions "innovations in science, technology, and government." But she concedes that some of these innovations were "inequality-dependent"—that is, "they were made possible by a system that differentially rewarded different types of skills."
In Rawls' conception of a just society, the "greatest equal liberty principle" takes priority over the difference principle. "Each person has an equal right to a fully adequate scheme of equal basic liberties which is compatible with a similar scheme of liberties for all," he argued. And in fact, institutions of liberty are the most effective way to harness human beings' natural diversity to the goals of reducing poverty, increasing literacy, raising life expectancy, and otherwise improving the world. The current income distribution in rich developed countries may not be strictly in line with Rawls' difference principle, but the lives of the least advantaged have substantially improved in modern market societies.
Inequalities imposed by governments, such as Jim Crow, are evil and must be eliminated. But once such government shackles are removed, people incentivized by free markets have the opportunity to improve their lots from wherever they begin their lives. Each of us is responsible for making the best of the different hands dealt us by our genes and upbringings. The good fortune to have been born into a liberal market society is far more salient than the luck of either social class or genetic endowments.
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There is no such thing as luck. It is mystical nonsense.
There is no genetic lottery. A genetic lottery would require some sort of pre-conception existence and a defined distribution of possible outcomes.
Phrases like "good fortune" and "genetic lottery" are completely meaningless. Their use detracts from any information communicated.
There are genetic differences. A specific instance of those differences are not similar to a lottery in any way.
Ever heard one of those good news, bad news stories? That's all luck is, another name for random stuff which helps me, and if it hurts you, then my good luck is your bad luck. If I find a quarter on the sidewalk, enter a store just before a price change, or get hit by a car running a red light, there's luck -- random differences.
Go away with your stupid pedantic platitudes.
So, you think it's actually a good idea to use language that muddies the waters and supports the idiocy of the author's thesis?
Hunh.
I'm saying that "There is no such thing as luck." is a pedantic quibble.
Not if you're talking about genetics...
Doesn't matter what. If it's random and unpredictable, it's luck.
Genetics aren't random, nor particularly unpredictable.
Individuals have genetic traits, they mate and pass down some combination of those traits to offspring.
That's not luck, it's life.
The "Luck" mouth-full refers to is not the science behind the (value) it is that YOU received THAT (value) other than some other. Luck is to be born in the US and not elsewhere.
No java makes a good point. The idea that there is a "Winning" genetic makeup is nonsense on skates. Life isn't a video game where if you just get certain stats to 18 you will have an easy time. Our universe has infinite variables, and every person who solves for one of those variables creates new niches that others can solve for.
Genetic Evolution became an obsolete form of problem solving around 20,000 years ago. Prior to that, if you weren't born with massive claws, you were stuck in your role for life. But Mankind didn't need to evolve claws or massive jaws. We learned how to tame fire, build weapons, hunt as a pack and crack new and more efficient forms of enemy. The idea that Genetics continue to make people winners and losers is absurd- if it were, we'd still be running from bears rather than trying to save them from an extinction we caused.
Overt, given any environment, certain traits will be beneficial and others not for succeeding in it. Because we have smartly learned to better control our environments for the benefit of humans does not mean we are now all equal in ability. Brains vs brawn, the smart advance and the brawny not so much anymore.
Name a time when being stupid was an advantage.
The Killing Fields of Cambodia?
Nice one.
Yeah, but that wouldn't be worth living.
North America, third millennium CE.
Name a time when being stupid was an advantage.
Seems all the rage now.
Stupid, in a cognitive sense, is a great advantage for dedicating your life to belief, whether in a classical religion or a new-age post-modern delusion.
Yeah, this is all the sort of generalized nonsense that is good for greeting cards and after school specials, but pretty useless for ordering society.
Regardless of how genetically adapted to certain environments we are, the point is that the ability for humans to share knowledge has transcended any of these genetic advantages, except in the most extreme of cases (such as a genetic deformity). As a white guy, I am genetically ill suited for the desert, compared to someone with more Melanin. That is a disadvantage I can solve with the application of about $15 of clothing.
"Brains vs brawn, the smart advance and the brawny not so much anymore."
Yes, our ability to create, retain and share knowledge has replaced the need for physical things like super strength and claws. But so what? Pretty much 99% of the population has the ability to do this.
Unleashing the success of that 99% means giving them the most freedom possible to solve their problems. Free exchange of ideas, goods and services is a magic wand. It allows me to take the combination of genetics (physical and mental), culture, skills and passion and then turn it into ANYTHING I need. If I am really good at math, I can specialize in that job, and buy the clothes that overcome my melanin deficiencies. If I have physical prowess, I can play sports to get me through college cheaply.
Folks like Harden would do the opposite. Their redistribution actually PUNISHES people who specialize in things they are really good at. And all for this nonsense notion that genetics trumps all.
Yeah, on the note, I'll just take this opportunity to throw out the name "Stephen Hawking" right here as a counterpoint to the idea that genetic "luck" is the end-all factor for success...
Just... ugh. *headshake* This is just Eugenics again, only this time the fucking progs have come to the opposite conclusion about what the "final solution" for all these "genetically inferior" people is.
The world needs ditch diggers too.
Not for long. The DitchBots are coming.
Check out the average salary of a NFL player.
or the minimum salary.
A high average salary for a few years, normal NFL career is 2 years, often results in poor spending decisions for those few years so the player winds up with no income (or minimum wage income) in later years. Not to mention long lasting brain damage that gets progressive worse.
As always, Darwin was right.
I've known about a dozen former NFL players. Some long time vets, others practice squad guys who only stuck around a couple years.
All are well off.
"Genetic Evolution became an obsolete form of problem solving around 20,000 years ago."
Pure pedantry on my part, but depending on definitions, 300,000 - 80,000 years ago. By 20 kya behavioral modernity was pretty much everywhere. Wild-type agriculture had begun, textiles, archery and atlatls had been invented, the dog had been domesticated, etc.
Again, no disagreement with what you said. I just get stupid about timetables.
Yeah 300k to 20k is a huge range. I was just trying to make the point that BY 20,000 years ago, we had reached the point where "Technology" pretty much made any genetic difference 100% moot.
It's like a person saying they have created the absolute, positively, #1 best buggy whip known to man. At a certain point, that advantage doesn't fucking matter. Because the car had meant that it didn't matter what you did with buggies. All around the world, people were adapting to their environments. Some people need only a little water; in the Pacific northwest, there are people who get all their vitamin c from raw meat instead of fruits; africans are well adapted to harsh sun. But the spread of technology made all this all irrelevant. I can go live in the pacific northwest and pop vitamin c pills, or go live in africa with a hat on. If I am not GREAT at math (even assuming that is genetic), I can be a team builder, or a supplier of materials.
Genetics might matter, but it matters as much as spear throwing ability in the modern world.
Show me a lucky person and I'll show you someone who doesn't wait for opportunity to knock twice.
Show me an unlucky person and I'll show you someone who lets opportunity slip by.
Show me a lucky person and I'll show you someone who has had resources and opportunities fall into his lap through no action on his part. Show me an unlucky person and I'll show you someone who has been burdened by challenges and deprivations through no fault of his own. Show me someone who denies the importance of good luck to success and I'll show you a lucky person.
Mostly true Vernon, but the smartest among us who also are capable of applying their brain power to problems and opportunities - given that ability is based largely on luck - can create some "luck".
But as you admit, having that "brain power" is itself a matter of luck.
Nonsense. 99% of humanity has enough "brain power" to live successful lives. You don't need to be a MENSA member to be a millionaire.
You want to talk about luck? Luck is being born in a nation that stays out of peoples' way. I have all sorts of specific problems with the development of the modern west, but one thing is clear: capitalism and the free markets has created countries where even the "unlucky" have access to food, electronics, mass entertainment and where the problems we want to solve for them (like living past an average of 70yrs) would be a problem that anyone in history would take in a heartbeat.
The land of opportunity.
Oh I see. You're making an ad hominem argument that I'm wrong because what I said means I'm a lucky person, and therefore whatever I say on the subject is wrong. Par for the course around here.
And again I totally disagree. I've known "unlucky" people who had opportunity fall on their laps but they didn't do anything with it. They resented me for taking advantage of these opportunities. Needless to say we're not friends anymore.
No, that's not what I said at all, but I've read your posts long enough not to expect reading comprehension from you.
"Show me someone who denies the importance of good luck to success and I'll show you a lucky person."
You use the word "deny" just like proponents of the Global Warming religion do. That word is used when someone refuses to admit the truth about something. It means that they are wrong and not to be listened to.
Words mean things. If that's not what you meant then maybe you should use a different word.
There are plenty of people who have had 3 or 4 business failures before they succeed. Are they lucky or unlucky?
The opposite is true as well. 'Lucky' people have to deal with bad shit. 'Unlucky' people have opportunities fall into their lap. In both (or all four) cases, the 'luck' is how people respond.
Lisa Simpson used to say "The Chinese you the same word for crisis as they do for opportunity."
Mandarin is a notoriously laconic language.
I work with a woman from China who says her name actually means her name and two different words, depending upon tone and inflection.
People harry Harry all the time.
OK sarcasmic and I guess the 35 year old just diagnosed with cancer is somehow responsible for his diagnosis.
That's obviously not what I was talking about. You have a reputation for being stupid. Don't add to it.
Lol.
Leftist on leftist violence.
If he was diagnosed with lung cancer and he has been smoking two packs a day since he was 12 then he may be somehow responsible.
Same goes for peeps who have been crack heads since they could first afford to buy a pipe and then are pregnant and continue to smoke crack so their kids are born addicted and wind up being brain damaged so they start smoking crack.
That's silly. Belongs in a book of stupid sayings.
Luck is just unexpected unpredictable things that change your life. Has nothing to do with whether you take advantage of it.
Sure it does. If two people are given the same opportunity to, say invest in a company at the bottom. One does, and the other doesn't. That company turns into the next Microsoft and the "lucky" person gets rich while the "unlucky" one looks on in resentment.
You are totally right here. There are niches and opportunities everywhere. Look no further than lottery winners. Around 70% of lottery winners end up bankrupt within five years.
If Luck truly determined whether someone is rich, all those lottery winners would be rich today. But they are not.
People don't buy lottery tickets because they're financially responsible.
If I won a large lottery prize, my intention would be to spend all of it while I could.
If I won a large lotter prize, which is unlikely since I don't play, I'd find a trustworthy financial planner and come up with a plan for living comfortably for the rest of my life without getting stupid and going broke.
How do you know how long you're going to live?
True. Joe Friday says it’s ok to slit the throats of rich people.
I don't smoke, am not obese, my folks are still alive, and all of my grandparents lived into their 90s.
So while I don't know for sure, I can reasonably expect to live to at least the average age of a man of my generation.
In other words, you assume your luck will hold up.
People don't get hit by a bus because they were paying attention to their surroundings.
My birth certificate has an expiration date
-Steven wright
You heard it here first folks, the victims of accidents or negligence are responsible for their injuries or death. No one who has ever been run over by a bus was the victim of a negligent driver.
On the other hand, convicted pedophiles less than 24 hours out of a psychiatric hold at the local hospital screaming SHOOT ME NIGGA at the top of their lungs before chasing down a 17 year old kid armed with an AR-15 and trying to take his weapon away because they are impotently raging that he put out the dumpster fire they started are victims of reckless and malicious murder.
sarcasmic unintentionally demonstrates how genetic retardation works.
"If I won a large lottery prize, my intention would be to spend all of it while I could."
This is changing the subject. 70% of lottery winners were bankrupt within 5 years. If luck were the cause of their success then they would be rich...unless being lucky for lottery somehow makes you unlucky for something else.
70% of lottery winners were bankrupt within 5 years.
You're assuming that's an unfortunate outcome. Maybe they're bankrupt because they enjoyed their good luck by spending their winnings, as would be my intention.
You also seem to assume that "being lucky" is a personal quality that one possesses. I do not. Having been lucky is simply a matter of having had good things happen to you through no action on your part.
What many call "luck" did indeed require action on the part of the "lucky" one.
I'll never be a "lucky" lottery winner because I don't take the action of buying a ticket.
You know who's never gotten lucky?
Collage republicans
"Maybe they're bankrupt because they enjoyed their good luck by spending their winnings, as would be my intention."
Right. 70% of lottery winners want to be bankrupt in 5 years. That's what you are going with?
"having been lucky is simply a matter of having had good things happen to you through no action on your part."
Wow, you have certainly figured out how to beg a question.
Being successful is not the same as being lucky. That is the whole point. No one is denying that some people have fortunate occurrences ("get lucky"). We are stating that Luck doesn't make someone successful. And as we see, people who are extraordinarily lucky to win millions of dollars regularly fail to be successful over the long run. Because being lucky and being successful are not the same thing.
Is there a genetic predisposition to pedantry?
If so, I carry two copies.
MammaryBahnFuhrer can get ESPECIALLY pedantic about Her Perfect Christian Theology, which justifies Her urging others to commit suicide!
Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrer, Supreme Demonic Director of Decay, Destruction, and Death, will now SPEAK! HARKKK silently and RESPECTFULLY, all ye lowly heathens, as She Directs Death, and announces WHICH few of us MIGHT deserve to live, and WHO all deserves to DIE-DIE-DIE!!!
https://reason.com/2022/01/25/did-these-three-officers-willfully-deprive-george-floyd-of-his-constitutional-rights/?comments=true#comment-9323626
“You should really join ᛋᛋqrlsy, ᛋᛋhrike. You two goosestepping fascists offing yourselves would definitely be a mitzvah.”
-Quote MammaryBahnFuhrer the "Expert Christian Theologian"
So Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrer, Supreme Demonic Director of Decay, Destruction, and Death... WHEN are You going to STOP stealing the IDs of Your victims, and then posting kiddie porn in THEIR names, and then blaming THEM?
Inquiring minds want to KNOW, dammit!
So Sqrlsophile doesn't know what pedantry means I guess, since he assumes I was boasting. At least he's not sticking up for child rape today.
It’s early yet. Give it time.
And I wish that Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrer could be said to have given up on advocating suicide for others, and for stealing their IDs!
Happy Easter, Oh Great Perfect Christian Theologian!
Speaking of Christian theology, Judas killed himself when he realized the magnitude of his error. What is it like to have less moral compunction than the guy who got the Jews' messiah nailed to a cross, sarcasmic?
Citation please, Tulpa, on when I have EVER (unlike Mammary-Necrophilia-Fuhrer), EVER advocated suicide for ANYONE?
Is Judas a HERO to you, Tulpa?
BTW, Tulpa...
“Dear Abby” is a personal friend of mine. She gets some VERY strange letters! For my amusement, she forwards some of them to me from time to time. Here is a relevant one:
Dear Abby, Dear Abby,
My life is a mess,
Even Bill Clinton won’t stain my dress,
I whinny seductively for the horses,
They tell me my picnic is short a few courses,
My real name is Mary Stack,
NO ONE wants my hairy crack!
On disability, I live all alone,
Spend desperate nights by the phone,
I found a man named Richard (Dick) Decker,
But he won’t give me his hairy pecker!
Dick Decker’s pecker is reserved for farm beasts,
I am beastly, yes! But my crack’s full of yeasts!
So Dear Abby, that’s just a poetic summary… You can read about the Love of my Life, Richard Decker, here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/10/11/farmers-kept-refusing-let-him-have-sex-with-their-animals-so-he-sought-revenge-authorities-say/#comments-wrapper
Farmers kept refusing to let him have sex with their animals. So he sought revenge, authorities say.
Decker the hairy pecker told me a summary of his story as below:
Decker: “Can I have sex with your horse?”
Farmer: “Lemme go ask the horse.”
Pause…
Farmer: “My horse says ‘neigh’!”
And THAT was straight from the horse’s mouth! I’m not horsin’ around, here, no mare!
So Richard Decker the hairy pecker told me that, apparently never even realizing just HOW DEEPLY it hurt me, that he was all interested in farm beasts, while totally ignoring MEEE!!
So I thought maybe I could at least liven up my lonely-heart social life, by refining my common interests that I share with Richard Decker… I, too, like to have sex with horses!
But Dear Abby, the horses ALL keep on saying “neigh” to my whinnying sexual advances!
Some tell me that my whinnying is too whiny… Abby, I don’t know how to fix it!
Dear Abby, please don’t tell me “get therapy”… I can’t afford it on my disability check!
Now, along with my crack full of yeasts… I am developing anorexia! Some are calling me a “quarter pounder with cheese”, but they are NOT interested at ALL, in eating me!!! They will NOT snack on my crack!
What will I DO, Dear Abby?!?!?
-Desperately Seeking Horses, Men, or ANYTHING, in Fort Worth,
Yours Truly,
R Mac / Mary Stack / Tulpa / Mary’s Period / “.” / Satan
Have some black coffee you illiterate drunken fuck. I never said you advocated suicide for anyone. I said you lack the moral cognizance of Judas Iscariot, who rightly killed himself when he realized the moral degeneracy and shame of his actions. You haven't got a copypasta for that, so just keep posting the same one.
moral degeneracy and shame of his actions.
Someone had to betray jesus for the book to become true; Judas played his part the way god demanded and is well rewarded in heaven for doing so.
"I said you lack the moral cognizance of Judas Iscariot, who rightly killed himself when he realized the moral degeneracy and shame of his actions."
So you, too, advocate suicide for those who you disapprove of! Unlike me! I advocate that evil persons should regret their evils and reform themselves, rather than punching their own tickets! It HURTS you to know that I am a better person than you are, right, death-luster?
EvilBahnFuhrer, drinking EvilBahnFuhrer Kool-Aid in a spiraling vortex of darkness, cannot or will not see the Light… It’s a VERY sad song! Kinda like this…
He’s a real Kool-Aid Man,
Sitting in his Kool-Aid Land,
Playing with his Kool-Aid Gland,
His Hero is Jimmy Jones,
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jim-Jones
Loves death and the dying moans,
Then he likes to munch their bones!
Has no thoughts that help the people,
He wants to turn them all to sheeple!
On the sheeple, his Master would feast,
Master? A disaster! Just the nastiest Beast!
Kool-Aid man, please listen,
You don’t know, what you’re missin’,
Kool-Aid man, better thoughts are at hand,
The Beast, to LEAVE, you must COMMAND!
A helpful book is to be found here: M. Scott Peck, Glimpses of the Devil
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1439167265/reasonmagazinea-20/
Hey EvilBahnFuhrer …
If EVERYONE who makes you look bad, by being smarter and better-looking than you, killed themselves, per your wishes, then there would be NO ONE left!
Who would feed you? Who’s tits would you suck at, to make a living? WHO would change your perpetually-smelly DIAPERS?!!?
You’d better come up with a better plan, Stan!
Here's your citation
https://www.flickr.com/photos/194775987@N02/51813219593/in/datetaken/
Hahaha, that's hilarious.
It’s funny because sqrlsy admitted he eats shit.
Cool! I like the "Coitus" sticker!!!
"There is no such thing as luck."
I'll believe that when you can predict ahead of time, for me, what side a coin will land on, when flipped, 20 times in a row.
How many flips will there be total? Given enough flips, I guarantee it'll happen at least once.
That's a pretty piss-poor refutation of the idea of "luck" or "probability"!
("Luck" or "probability" concepts express our ignorance rather than our knowledge. A God-like being, aware of the position and velocity of the coin, and each and every nearby molecule, and position and nature of the coin's landing surface, would have ZERO need for "Luck" or "probability"... "God" would know the outcome ahead of time. Us not being "God"? We have to meekly settle for "Luck" or "probability", instead.)
This was embarrassing enough the first time you posted it, sarcasmic. The probability of a fair coin landing on heads or tails is exactly the same regardless of how many times you flip the coin. Each flip is an independent event. All you're continually proving is that you are just as illiterate about probability as you are about everything else.
Looks like we can add probability to the litany of subjects about which sarcasmic is utterly, wholly, abjectly ignorant.
Do you recall the awesome enchanter named “Tim”, in “Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail”? The one who could “summon fire without flint or tinder”? Well, you remind me of Tim… You are an enchanter who can summon persuasion without facts or logic!
So I discussed your awesome talents with some dear personal friends on the Reason staff… Accordingly…
Reason staff has asked me to convey the following message to you:
Hi Fantastically Talented Author:
Obviously, you are a silver-tongued orator, and you also know how to translate your spectacular talents to the written word! We at Reason have need for writers like you, who have near-magical persuasive powers, without having to write at great, tedious length, or resorting to boring facts and citations.
At Reason, we pay above-market-band salaries to permanent staff, or above-market-band per-word-based fees to freelancers, at your choice. To both permanent staff, and to free-lancers, we provide excellent health, dental, and vision benefits. We also provide FREE unlimited access to nubile young groupies, although we do firmly stipulate that persuasion, not coercion, MUST be applied when taking advantage of said nubile young groupies.
Please send your resume, and another sample of your writings, along with your salary or fee demands, to ReasonNeedsBrilliantlyPersuasiveWriters@Reason.com .
Thank You! -Reason Staff
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HOLY FUCKING SARCASMIC HAVE YOU EVER CONSIDERED A CAREER IN PROFESSIONAL COMEDY LIKE THE GREAT JON STEWART?!?!?!? YOU ARE SO FUCKING FUNNY MY SIDES ARE IN ORBIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The "Tim the Enchanter" copypasta is Sqrlsy's rage quit. You know whenever he posts it that he feels like he lost the argument.
You-all BRILLIANT writers NEVER take my MOST excellent advice! WHEN are ya gonna get hired at Reason.com?!?! You're wasting ALL of Your Perfect Talent!
Get going!!! ReasonNeedsBrilliantlyPersuasiveWriters@Reason.com .
Wise words! And don't forget to punctuate that with: M'Lady! *Tips Fedora.*
She relies chiefly on the philosopher John Rawls' notion of the "difference principle," according to which social and economic inequalities are just if they are arranged so that they provide the greatest benefits to the least advantaged members of society.
Translation: From each according to ability; to each according to need.
Geez, where have I heard that before? 🙂
Genetic identity defines us. Since the genome mapping project started back in the 80's, we are making good progress. We have a long way to go to understand our genome. A very long way. But the objective reality is inescapable: at the very start (conception), we are genetically defined by our DNA.
This is just a rehash of "Divine Right of Kings" only this time the people who are actually useful to society are the slaves instead of running the place.
No, the "Devine Right of Kings" had nothing to do with the capabilities of individual kings.
But it had to do with the notion that the people who were kings were in that position because they had been favored by God (or "luck", for the analogy), and that was why society needed to be ordered as it was.
So, this woman is saying that Fortune has arranged people's lives, and as such, society needs to be ordered in a certain way because of it. Seems at least moderately analogous to me...
Communists and most progressives start with the concept of universal state distribution of material goods and services, with some inclination towards equal shares. (Of course some are more equal than others.)
After that comes any number of rationalizations and excuses for massive state control of people and society. Genetic lotteries is definitely on the more stupid end of the spectrum.
I propose that we run all the communists through woodchippers for use as fertilizer equally. And then they can actually contribute something useful to the world.
And what is really sad is that nowhere in nature is "Equality" a state. These people who reject religion and claim to love them some science cannot answer why it is that everyone having the same amount is some sort of moral necessity.
The reality is that absent working for yourself (in nature) your genetic heritage ends in the belly of some predator or being feasted upon by insects. Unless you build shelter, you will sleep in the rain. Unless you find food, you will starve. But for some reason it is just plainly obvious to these communists that the moral state of being is everyone being equal.
Beyond material equality, I sense that some modern progressives believe in material entitlement, and after establishing an arbitrary level of stuff they deserve, they demand that others supply that.
I still like the deserted island metaphor. If I find myself alone on an island with reasonable conditions and resources, my survival is directly dependent on my own efforts. If instead I claim entitlement to survival, I will die.
Of course, the fun starts when another human shows up and makes a claim on my stuff, just because.
It ultimately comes down to this classic article:
https://www.libertarianism.org/publications/essays/why-do-intellectuals-oppose-capitalism
Intellectuals spent their entire young lives being at the top of the heap. Their clever wit, and eloquence was praised by teachers and elevated them above peers. Then they get into the real world and find that bloviation is not actually that prized in the free market. No, they see some 50 year old construction worker in a nice car, who has never even heard of Sartre let alone read him, and they overlook how many people he has sheltered, and the fact that he has built homes that will last for decades...no, he is a racist cretin and he is able to support himself. Truly this system is broken.
Overt, many things - and concepts - humans have created do not exist in "nature" (unless of course you accept we are "natural" beings and unable to do anything not "natural").
No one in modern western politics argues for equality of outcomes so you have constructed a straw dog. On the other hand equality of opportunity is an unreachable goal worth striving for and a distribution of human wealth less top heavy than we presently experience - and which rivals the 1920s - is also a desirable goal and one even the wealthiest should favor in the interests of enlightened self interest, less the poorest among us slit their throats while they sleep.
Killing rich people will make things equal.
No one in modern western politics argues for equality of outcomes
It's so stupid left wingers pretend this. Once "income equality" is the problem the only solution is "income equality". Their entire political program uses equality of outcome as its underlying principle. The same is true of their asserting any disproportionality proves unfairness including racism and sexism.
They argue this because they understand the overwhelming majority of Americans (and others) reject their claims (because they are so obviously destructive) so they try to achieve them surreptitiously.
No one in modern western politics argues for equality of outcomes
See, this is why I muted Joe. Blatant, obvious, direct lies just aren't interesting. I mean, it's vaguely interesting that someone thinks they can post shit like that and it won't instantly be recognized as false, but beyond that, it's just pointless blather.
"No one in modern western politics argues for equality of outcomes so you have constructed a straw dog."
The Gini Coefficient is *by definition* a measurement of how equal outcomes are, and it is used by politicians- especially those you vote for- to demonize the United States. You are not just mistaken, you are spinning fables, Joe.
"On the other hand equality of opportunity is an unreachable goal worth striving for and a distribution of human wealth less top heavy than we presently experience"
It is ironically hilarious that you are simultaneously obsessed with "distribution of wealth" and claiming that "no one wants equality of outcome".
Wealth *is* an outcome, Joe.
That's quite literally the very definition of "equity", sarcasmic. Not only are shit loads of people in modern western politics arguing for equality of outcomes - "equity" - they are defining anyone who disagrees and prefers equality to equity as a racist, fascist, or Nazi, and they control one of the two political parties in the United States.
For the benefit of posterity, since sarcasmic wont' click the link and will then pretend it was never provided:
That is not sarc. It is Joe Friday, who is so clearly not Sarc.
It's a troll. Best left ignored.
The guy who literally posted child pornography on here is now your butt buddy though. It's almost like you're a stupid, sub-literate, clinically developmentally disabled, self-confessed drug addict, alcoholic, and welfare recipient who was homeless before going on the dole, and when you can't refute an argument simply scream epithets hoping nobody will notice.
It's a troll. Best left ignored.
I'm amused the guy who admits he's only here to piss others off calls other people trolls. But that's their nature. Standards are just weapons to be used against other people, they never apply to the anointed.
You're right! Just because he has posted word-for-word copies of the same 5 paragraph essays that sarcsmic posts using his SQRLSY One sockpuppet doesn't make him a sarcasmic sockpuppet.
It's fortunate for sarcasmic that he mostly interacts with face blind autistic libertarians who can't detect speech patterns or rhetorical tics. It's unfortunate that he's still so goddamn stupid he forgets which sock he posting under and frequently outs himself anyway.
It's unfortunate that he's still so goddamn stupid he forgets which sock he posting under and frequently outs himself anyway.
Look! I posted the same shit as Kip posted! Kip is SQRLSY One! The one and the same! It is now KNOWN, dammit!!!!
Here we have sarcasmic demonstrating his retardation with perfect clarity, as if copying one sentence that someone else wrote on the same page they wrote it was the same as posting one of the dozen or so canned 5 paragraph essays that you've been posting with your SQRSLY One sockpuppet several times per day for multiple years in a completely different thread under your sarcasmic handle because you forgot which account you were logged into.
That one always says the same shit. Each time I mute it, and before long it pops up with a new account. It has to have gone through scores by now.
Just like every other person on this site besides cytotoxic (dba chemjeff and de oppresso liber), White Mike, and shrike the pedophile, I am muted and yet somehow get replied to compulsively for dozens and dozens of posts per page.
Jesus sarcasmic. It's unseemly enough replying to yourself, but if you could actually keep track of your imaginary mute list so you don't keep compulsively replying to people whose posts you ostensibly cannot see, that would be great.
Then again if you were capable of that, you could probably avoid outing your socks by accidentally posting the same copypasta from the wrong handle dozens and dozens of times. I know it's Easter, but maybe lay off the Jesus juice for a while.
a distribution of human wealth less top heavy than we presently experience - and which rivals the 1920s - is also a desirable goal and one even the wealthiest should favor
Once you pay the Danegeld, The Dane never go away.
Equally hungry, cold, and wet. Mission Accomplished!
I'm a "progressive" Earth - actually I prefer old school "liberal" and I don't start - or end - with "the concept of universal state distribution of material goods and services". In fact I own a business and have been making payroll every week for 40+ years.
Like hell you have.
You are a self-confessed drug addict, alcoholic welfare recipient, sarcasmic. The only job you have ever held in your entire life was as a fry cook, where you self-admittedly spit in the food of customers that you didn't like. How you ascertained anything about your customers as a cook working in the kitchen is anyone's guess, but what the hell, it's your fantasy. You have never owned a business, and with your grade-school comprehension of economics you would fail at selling sunscreen in Las Vegas.
Ah, but we study DNA and the Human Genome, as well as other animal genomes, precisely so that we can tweak those genes so that genes do not have to be destiny.
Central planning ftw!
Transhumanists are shit.
For Americans who get only a high school diploma, it's $1.6 million.
Probably the best outcome on the planet.
And in human history.
But its so unfair that others have more.
1.6 million dollars is an utterly and completely meaningless measure since the value of money is not constant. How do you compare a man who earned 20,000 British pound sterling over the course of his lifetime in Lancashire in 1780 to a man who earns 1.6 million dollars over the course of his lifetime in Boston in 2022?
Math is racist.
But inflation is progressive.
Because public education sucks. That is why you have the performance gap.
That, and subsidizing the reproduction of those least competent to be parents. That results in children showing up for school already impaired, or, in many cases, nearly feral.
Public education is the primary reason that we have a less class based society.
Cite?
Yeah Joe has had too many easter mimosas me thinks. Good on him, but this is just silly.
Many of the "Robber Barrons" of the evil turn of the century weren't born into the rich class- they were self made. And they made their fortunes *not* after public school. It was those whose class attributes gave them connections to the government that ultimately gave capitalism a bad name.
Joe Friday is one of those poor folks who is slightly below average intelligence but imagines he’s quite a bit above, so he acts like a know-it-all but says ignorant shit.
That's absolute bullshit, because the elite, whether in politics, entertainment or industry, have educated their children privately for the last 100 years. Attending a public school is an actual obstacle towards educational attainment.
And America has never had a more insular class-based society than right now.
Then why are our upper classes dominated by people with private educations?
Public education is the primary reason we have a society of people with no class.
FTFY
And by the bye, historically, compulsory education was espoused precisely to make children into both mental and physical drones, whether for religion (Martin Luther,) or for captains of industry (John D. Rockefeller.)
Celebrating losing cultural strategies as being worthy of emulating is the root of the problem.
This is fucking pointless. Of course more income makes life easier. Fewer distractions while studying, more tutor help, less need for jobs to earn income as a kid.
All that really matters for "social equality" is how much effect family income has on social mobility, and the answer is clear in study after study: there is a surprising amount of churn among income quartiles from generation to generation.
Of course this doesn't appease the "social equity" crowd; nothing appeases them, because everything they spew is in pursuit of statism with them at the helm.
Useless article, useless book.
C'mon, Ron, you're better than this. 30 million compared to what? Do higher income kids hear 31 million words? 50 million? 1 billion?
Give us a damned percentage. This absolute number is meaningless.
And there we go, right into the cesspool of statism, progressivism, collectivism, socialism, all that state control and social engineering which has 200 years of failure behind it.
You want to help kids? Get the fucking government out of the way. Limit government to removing obstacles to individual pursuit of happiness, not to adding new mandatory ones.
Like I said above, I bet that Hardin started with her communist solution and then adapted her favorite science topic as justification. She probably could have done the same thing after observing a house full of cats.
That's what most politicians do, but lefties seem much more focused on rigid control of the peasants regardless of the excuse, whereas righties seem to care a little about the actual excuse.
Modern day lefties mostly confuse me because they seem so tone deaf, so far off into the weeds, what with fluid gender pre-school hormone blockers and males on women's swim teams and in women's prisons, that they simply cannot see how disgusted the electorate is. Leaders have to occasionally look behind to see if they still have followers.
Then there are the right statists, who are so fixated on abortion against poll after poll showing how unpopular their position is; if they were to change that one position, they'd wipe the electoral map. I suppose it does show they have at least one principle other than POWER!, unlike the lefties, who seem so focused on POWER that they are doing everything they can to lose power.
Used to be, you could say lefties wanted to control your money, righties wanted to control your thoughts. Boy those days are long past!
"...She probably could have done the same thing after observing a house full of cats..."
Pretty sure Ehrlich came up with his idiocy after watching lab rats.
Yeah A, this last 200 years in America has been a real hell on earth and only getting worse.
Seriously?
He wasn’t talking about America.
Joe’s thick as a brick.
The last 200 years have been GREAT for kids. But when it hasn't it has been government in the way.
Covid was a bunch of vulnerable, affluent older people putting kids out of work. According to the CDC, less than 5% of COVID deaths were from people under 45. Yet because they were earlier in their lives, they suffered the largest from the response. Old people with savings, passive income, and professional jobs that could work from home locked these kids out of their jobs. My nieces had started a small business and were nearly wrecked by the shutdowns. For years they will harbor a deep resentment for the old fucks that nearly ruined them. I can only hope they will understand that this was the government, not capitalism.
Did you ask who they voted for?
They voted Red.
all that state control and social engineering which has 200 years of failure behind it.
120 years. You can pinpoint the beginning of the decline and the source of all our current societal ills with Wilson (16th Amendment Federal Reserve) and Progressive (now Democrats) ideology. FDR and LBJ sealed our freefall with their New Deal and Great Society.
We should repeal the legislative twentieth century and restart.
He really isn't. This is what happens when you make a person whose terminal degree was an undergraduate in philosophy into your "science" correspondent.
And how do you objectively measure that numher of words?
Ron is definitely NOT better than this.
It makes life easier, but it doesn't necessarily make kids more successful.
Yes, and those factors tend to harm kids.
Eh, everything's a tradeoff. First generation has ambition, second generation is competent, third generation wastes it. But the third generation couldn't waste it without the second generation having preserved it.
It makes life easier, but it doesn't necessarily make kids more successful.
There are exceptions, but the correlation is very strong.
You're confusing correlation and causation.
No, he wasn't. He actually explicitly and specifically wasn't. He acknowledged exceptions, and stated that the correlation is very strong. What part of that do you interpret to mean the exact opposite of what it says: that there are no exceptions and the correlation is causative?
I have to repeat my question from below: is English your native tongue? It's okay if it's not, it would actually be better. I would have sympathy for you instead of concern for your cognition.
The question is whether "more [parental] income makes [i.e. causes] children to be more successful".
Merely observing a strong correlation between high parental income and successful kids doesn't answer that question.
It's nice to see that you remember now what you actually said instead of trying to substitute arguments you never made. Nevertheless, he did not claim that the extremely strong correlation was causative, you fucking imbecile. The entire point of using the term "correlation" instead of "causation" is to raise that distinction. You are trying to dismiss the correlation entirely, because you are an incredibly stupid, shallow thinking person, and when called out on your imbecility you feebly attempt to attack the messenger and insist he said something that he very clearly and specifically did not. Or else you are just a lying piece of shit, but I'll be charitable and ascribe stupidity.
But I made a statement about causation, to which he responded with a statement about correlation, to which I responded that his statement about correlation wasn't relevant to my statement about causation.
You should see someone over your obvious anger issues.
That's why Joe Biden's fuckup, crack addict, whoremonger son is rotting in jail just like Jamal Washington and not a centimillionaire, right?
I'm pretty sure that "centimillionaire" refers to someone with $10,000. Unless it's like "decimate" and people have popularized a meaning that's precisely the opposite of the actual logical definition.
That's because you're a smoothbrain retard who doesn't realize that "centi" means "hundred" and only connotes hundredths by convention in SI units. That's why a centipede is a creature with 100 legs, not 1/100th of a leg. Don't try to be pedantic when you don't understand the language you're attempting to nitpick.
Take your own advice.
Serious question: is English your native tongue? Do you know what the word "pedantic" means? Or what the idiom "nitpicking" means? I was not being pedantic or nitpicking anyone's language anywhere on this page. Pointing out when you logically and rhetorically do a Mexican hat dance all over your dick is not pedantry.
Yes, you are being pedantic and you are nitpicking.
So then the answer would be: "Yes, I do not understand what the word 'pedantic' or the idiom 'nitpicking' mean."
I think you made my point for me: Joe Biden's kid is a fuckup; none of those supposed educational advantages helped him build an actual career, and he was reduced to corruption and influence peddling.
he was reduced to corruption and influence peddling.
At which he has been spectacularly successful.
Quick reminder of what you actually said:
Note what you did not say. You did not say: educational advantages do not necessarily make kids more successful. You said more income does not necessarily make kids more successful. If more income does not make kids more successful, we should expect to see the fuckup children of wealthy people end up in the same straits as the fuckup children of average or poor people. And yet...
Not at all: the fuckup kids of wealthy people have their parental wealth to fall back on; that's why they don't "end up in the same straits" as the fuckup kids of poor people.
Perhaps you are a little fuzzy on the distinction between inherited wealth and success. Case in point: Hunter Biden is wealthy, but he is not successful.
Or possibly I don't draw idiotic. meaningless distinctions where none actually exist. Hunter Biden is more successful than every person posting on this page collectively. You could work for the next thousand years and still not have his net worth, or live in his private Malibu mansion with a cadre of personal security paid for by the taxpayers living next door at a cost of $50,000 per month. You choose to characterize success as a separate distinction from wealth because it's the only way you can make your worthless, pointless life seem meaningful.
Well, if your definition of "success" includes being a bankrupt drug and sex addict who was kicked out of the military and is making a living with influence peddling for his father, we obviously have different notions of what "success" is.
You are again projecting your own shortcomings and anger issues onto others.
Students with high income parents likely learn good habits from their parents, while low-income parents likely pass along the same habits that resulted in them having low-income jobs.
I've seen way too many spoiled rich kids who learned nothing more than who the good tailors were and how much to tip the maitre'd. They haven't even had the sense to take over and competently run the business they will inherit.
Students with ambitious parents probably learn more about hard work than students with lazy parents.
I used the word "likely" so I think we're in agreement.
They haven't even had the sense to take over and competently run the business they will inherit.
What's the expression? Oh yeah. "Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations."
Everyone I know who waxes endlessly about spoiled rich kids knows very very little about what those rich kids go through.
I am not saying that rich kids have it rough. But I went to high school with rich kids (despite not being rich) and the skills I learned were very important. All these kids worked over the summer, but they took fantastic vacations. Their parents were teaching them hard work, and doing it by giving them rewards that they wouldn't be able to enjoy on their own until their early 30s. But the fact that their parents were "cheating" didn't change the fact that these kids were learning hard work. And I too learned the lessons, even though I didn't winter in Cabo.
Meanwhile, in the 21st century, rich people's children typically do not work during school because their academic performance has to be sufficient to qualify to attend the right schools, where they will become members of the same fraternal organizations as their parents, and cultivate business and political connections that will provide them with their livelihood for their entire lives.
FTFY.
See, the lessons about the relationship between work and reward doesn't really take if you get a $50000 vacation as a reward for a summer job that would net other kids maybe $500. In fact, it sets unrealistic expectations.
I've known more than a few rich kids who definitely learned/inherited the work ethic of their successful parents. And some not so much.
Really? My brother runs a pretty successful company and is paid very well and he works 80 hours a week and is constantly on the phone solving problems. People are rich because they work their ass off.
Yep, Hunter Biden is a multimillionaire because he's such a responsible hard worker. Get your fucking head out of your ass. Jesus fuck.
What hunter does isn’t easy, but he is sleazy.
Sleazin' ain't easy.
To be fair to Hunter, I'm fine with him fucking whores and smoking crack and would never pass a law to prohibit him from doing those things. On the other hand, I would pass a law punishing him from possessing pornographic images of his 14 year old niece. Regardless, it's undeniable that anyone else who behaved that way would not be sitting on the boards of multinational corporations and negotiating billions of dollars worth of business deals. There are ultra-wealthy people who are responsible, and there are ultra-wealthy people who are colossal fuckups trading on their lineage.
Bear in mind when you pull out some bullshit anecdote like a multimillionaire basketball star with an IQ of 83 that a strong correlation is not causation. Not every millionaire will have a high IQ, but most people with a high IQ will be millionaires.
I'm not the one making absolute statements and ascribing virtues to people based on how much money they earn, smoothbrain.
Is a universal statement. It is demonstrably not universally true. It only takes one anecdote to blow up the construction. My statement, which you partially quoted out of context, was not absolute, which was precisely why I pointed out the nuance of it for the benefit of you and your fellow smoothbrains. Get it now, or should we bust out the Crayola to get it closer to your level?
At this point, pretty much every middle class retiree will be a millionaire.
In general, IQ doesn't correlate strongly with wealth once you control for a few factors like divorce and smoking:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11711-smarter-people-are-no-better-off/
Really dumb book from what I can tell. Have vs have nots is not genetics. Its economics.
Dumb vs smart has some basis in genetics.
But if you believe that haves and have nots are prima facie evidence of "unfairness", and if your social and political philosophy cannot abide unfairness, then why not search for any justification for state intervention? And using the concept of genetics makes it sound all sciencey, which seems to be the in thing.
Have and have nots are rewards based on how much your labor is worth to society. It is inherently fair.
Th article is off the rails in many ways. It's political science which is not science at all.
Didn't work out so well the last time they based everything on genetics, a century ago.
And also has a very strong, incontrovertible correlation with economics. The strongest predictor of future income is present IQ. Of course this is the part where you chime in with your smoothbrain take that IQ is a poor measurement and doesn't capture "real" intelligence. Which even if it were true would be irrelevant. Either explain the correlation or shut your trap.
It’s also not fair that movie stars tend to be better looking than I am . Make it equal.
I really do want to see this Cite.
But even if future income is highly correlated with IQ, so what? Is income really the proper measure of success? Does the fact that one person makes $1 Million and another $5 Million actually matter?
You could read The Bell Curve, but this would be more at your grade level.
Bear in mind when you pull out some bullshit anecdote like a multimillionaire basketball star with an IQ of 83 that a strong correlation is not causation. Not every millionaire will have a high IQ, but most people with a high IQ will be millionaires.
To answer your question, yes, income is a very good measure of success since it predicts wealth accumulation very well. The IQ difference between a person earning 1 million dollars per year and a person earning 5 million dollars per year would be trivial or non-existent. However, the IQ difference between a drug addict welfare case like sarcasmic and the guy earning 1 million dollars is probably around 3 standard deviations. Are you actually this stupid, or are you just pretending to try to score a point?
But eugenics aside I think the general population has a vast middle who have the IQ to succeed.
There are those on each end that either are too dumb to succeed or are so smart they almost have to succeed. Even on those endpoints there are exceptions to the rule.
The vast middle makes life choices that determine success or failure. Make education your priority and you'll almost always succeed. Don't and you;'ll be lucky to succeed. Maybe you're lucky enough to be 6-10 and athletic.
But it's not popular to blame poor life choices as the problem these days.
By definition, the vast middle IQ cohort succeed. If they don't, the species goes extinct.
The species is going to be fine. But US and European populations are shrinking, in large part because their middle classes aren't reproducing enough anymore.
it is because they don't want to live in a world run on rules from failed cultures.
"science of human individual differences is entirely compatible with a full-throated egalitarianism."
No it isn't.
Once you incorporate genetics into any theory of human success, egalitarianism becomes both wrong and immoral.
Its compatible with full throated communism though.
And eugenics.
Which is how Planned Parenthood got started.
The genetic lottery would explain why Herman Ford, Jason Rockefeller, Robert Edison and Fred Gates became household names.
Took me a moment...
^ + one (generation)
Also, Ozzie Canseco
Hard work counts for more than anything.
Get woke! Work is something imposed by the white patriarchy, and has nothing to do with wages.
You beat me to it, thanks!
Rewarding people (with tax money) for NOT working is a Highway to Hell, no matter WHAT fancy words we put around it!
That depends on what you're working hard to accomplish. If you're short and have little fast-twitch muscle, you're not going to be a professional baseball player. It won't matter at all how hard you work. If you're born blind, you're not going to be a pilot. Hard work only counts if you apply the work to developing your own personal potentials. And if you have good luck.
All very true and sometimes too easy to forget! Obvious, yes, when stated as you have stated it. Sometime we owe a debt of gratitude to those who bother to point out the obvious... So... Thanks!
NOTHING can require us to embrace progressive politics!
"Require" in the sense that if you don't proclaim it, you will be sent to labor camps or mental health treatment until you do. That's the way it worked in the Soviet Union.
OT, in news from the fringe.
The Navajo Nation has again rejected official recognition of same-sex marriage. But I suspect liberals will still champion the moral superiority of Native Americans and other indigenous people because of their high scores on the oppression scale.
(Of course the fondness that many liberals display for Indians might be akin to their current fondness for Ukrainians: emotional reaction to simplistic cartoons that might vanish if they actually met these people.)
Rejection of same sex marriage is the least of their problems. The Navajo Nation is a racist, ethnocentric, socialist state. It's not all their fault, though: that's the form of government progressives have imposed on them.
From what I understand, the Navajos, like most other native groups in the Americas, have held significantly fucked-up ideas and morals since way before Columbus arrived. But I am still mystified when white liberals proclaim their love for such a conservative, creationist, racist group.
The "liberal"'s tolerance of the religious fundamentalism of Native American activists is puzzling.
Other than their innate racism, there is this: https://www.britannica.com/art/noble-savage
Same as for that other well-known racist, conservative, creationist camp, Muslims who'd rather sit in squalid camps and whine about Jews or Hindus or Christians. Progressives can't get enough of them.
Considering Columbus never stepped foot on North American soil, that makes sense.
Providing food and shelter to an 8 year old who will otherwise have no food or a place to sleep, in exchange for sexual services from that 8 year old, is just a cultural thing you wouldn't understand. But I can understand why Buttplug is excited.
Progressives today are in love with that for the same reason progressvies/Nazis were enamored with back-to-nature movements, pre-Christian Germanic people, and racism.
An additional attraction to progressives in the US is that progressives have nearly unlimited power to impose their policy preferences on American Indians, via the BIA and numerous other programs.
If they were really a 'Nation' they wouldn't have to beg the US Government for permission to build a casino.
Yup, and that's exactly what Harden is doing. The only difference between Harden and previous eugenicists is that Harden's jackboot tramples on different groups.
Who to have children with and whether to have children is a choice, not luck.
That is not, however, related to any useful skills taught in college.
Having a college degree demonstrates two useful skills valuable to employers: you know how to follow instructions, and you have reasonably disciplined personal habits. Whether there is any use for the content of what you studied varies widely depending on your major.
We could probably assess personal skills at least as effectively with testing and relatively short term evaluations, and save everyone hundreds of thousands of dollars (combined direct college costs and delayed earnings) and four or more years of life.
Very few grads use the knowledge they might have gained in college on the job.
Earth, lets test your theories by having your kids and grandkids not go to college - OK?
C'mon, Joe, that's hardly fair... To give "Earth's" proposal a fair chance, MANY rules would have to be changed, and "Earth" doesn't have to power to do it! (I suspect that "Heaven" can't do it either; it involves the free will and political thinking of literally BILLIONS of people!)
Can YOU justify WHY it is, that it takes (in the USA alone among nations, actually) a "Doctor of Doctorology" to allow me to blow upon a cheap plastic "lung flute"? WHY is a graduate of the 2nd grade not qualified to give me that permission?
PS…
To find precise details on what NOT to do, to avoid the flute police, please see http://www.churchofsqrls.com/DONT_DO_THIS/ … This has been a pubic service, courtesy of the Church of SQRLS!
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HOLY FUCKING SARCASMIC HAVE YOU EVER CONSIDERED A CAREER IN PROFESSIONAL COMEDY LIKE THE GREAT JON STEWART?!?!?!? YOU ARE SO FUCKING FUNNY MY SIDES ARE IN ORBIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tulpa, do yourself a favor, and grow a brain! You can do it, if you REALLY actually TRY!
If I really worked at it maybe I could drink myself into a stupor by 8 AM every day and develop a half dozen 5 paragraph essays that I spend 12-16 hours per day compulsively spamming dozens of times in each and every article posted at Reason.com for years at a time without regard to the topic or context like you, sarcasmic.
Plenty of people are doing that and doing very well.
Here is some reading: https://www.richdad.com/5-things-to-do-instead-of-college
Theoretically we could, but practically we can't, because disparate impact made that illegal. That's why we started relying on credentials bestowed by an "independent" organization like a university, so that employers would be off the hook for "discrimination" if they hired on the basis of competence.
True. But as I was saying: is not, however, related to any useful skills taught in college..
I had a progressive friend for whom political tendencies had been very important in his life. In the 1960s he gave an ultimatum to friends to either disavow support for Richard Nixon or be unfriended by him. He unfriended a bunch, many of whom were very unpolitical and did not go along with him in explicitly disavowing Nixon. So unfriending was a thing in certain circles long before there was a word for it.
This friend told me years after he'd gotten to know me that he almost rejected me in the beginning because of my libertarian opinions, but that he didn't because I had a Jewish name, so he thought there might be hope for me as a friend. (He'd married a Jew.)
He also told me he considered blacks to be collectively genetically inferior to whites and orientals, and that therefore they would always need resources redistributed to them by government policy, and that therefore it should be done.
Your friend sounds like a religious zealot. That type has been around since humanity emerged. And probably correlates with mental illness.
Roberta, no one "unfriended" people in the 1960s. Cripes!
Modern verbs can't apply to past events. It is written.
Joe never lost a friend because he never had one.
It did in the literal sense.
Perhaps you missed this part:
"So unfriending was a thing in certain circles long before there was a
word for it."
"Luck," E.B. White once said, "is not something you can mention in the presence of self-made men."
There is no such thing as "self-made men". Only very lucky people deny the existence and importance of good luck.
People who don't take advantage of opportunities tend to be very resentful of people who do.
People who have been given opportunities tend to be disdainful of people who haven't.
If you say so.
Nobody is ‘given’ opportunity. They are always there, and they are everywhere.
That's absurd.
He's absolutely correct. Life is what you make of it. If you wait for good fortune to fall on your lap you're going to die very disappointed.
And if good fortune does fall on your lap, you'll probably insist you're a "self-made man" and look down on those who weren't so lucky.
They don’t fall in your lap.
Show me a "self-made man" and I'll show you someone who busted their ass and sacrificed to get where they are now.
Which says nothing about where they got. Most people who have "busted their ass" all their life have little or nothing to show for it, other than that they're still alive and still have food, clothing and shelter.
.. they're still alive and still have food, clothing and shelter.
Then they are successful.
This is sad but true.
Even worse is that tribalists and evil people will kill the "do-gooders" that make them look bad! Think of the killings of Jesus, Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., etc... And the righteous will be persecuted!
Read the link below for more details on "no good deed goes unpunished"...
http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Do_Gooders_Bad/ out-take below...
Don’t you go making me look bad, by being a better person than I am! This is why Jesus, Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., etc., got themselves killed! This is an academic link here, and some of the other links (below) refer to it in turn.
The first link to the academic literature that I became aware of, came from the book, “BEHAVE The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst”, by Robert M. Sapolsky. ("Anti-social punishment" described in this book; now more-so named "do-gooder derogation", for this well-documented aspect of human behavior.)
Also relevant for the bigger picture (under which "do-gooder derogation" falls) is http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Jesus_Validated/
"Which says nothing about where they got. Most people who have "busted their ass" all their life have little or nothing to show for it, other than that they're still alive and still have food, clothing and shelter."
Nothing? Shelter, food, clothing? That's nothing?
And of course, pretty much everyone I know who has busted their ass also has tvs. Their kids are going to a school where they are getting a decent education. They take holidays and own a car. So either "luck" is as endemic as COVID, or you are being hyperbolic.
I wonder how much going against the rules has to do with 'self-made men' 'busting their ass' being successful.
I immediately thought of Gates dropping out of college (against the conventional wisdom) to build computers. Or Musk leaving kith and kin for better opportunities elsewhere. I wonder if that would be a common theme amongst the robber barons an industrialists?
Perhaps all of those hard working, ass-busting, middle-class, ordinary joes shouldn't have followed the CW advocated by their social betters?
Like Hunter Biden and George W. Bush, right?
My stepsister and her husband are probably millionaires. They own a nice home in Kennebunk Maine where the median home price is 500K.
She worked her ass off in high school in order to get into a private college where she again worked her ass off to get her degree.
Out of college the both of them got jobs as pharmaceutical representatives. That required learning a whole bunch of stuff, travelling all over the place, and talking to all kinds of people. They made good money, and socked it away. That meant that when they had a family mom was able to stay at home because they had saved enough that she didn't have to work. Now that the kids are older she's back to work and driving a company car.
Was that luck?
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/composition-division
What's your point? That everything they have is because of luck? That they're not self-made due to hard work and sacrifice?
Shot in the dark here, but I think his point was that you committed the logical fallacy of composition. The anecdote about your most likely imaginary sister doesn't necessarily extrapolate to every person who is wealthy and successful.
Kinda fruitless arguing here...
Q: Which determines the area of a rectangle, the width or the length?
A: Both!
Q: Which determines "success", luck or hard work?
A: Both!
The idea that genetics creates advantages and disadvantages that ought to be penalized or rewarded (via redistribution) is obscene nonsense.
As I noted above, genetics became obsolete as a significant determinant of our success about 20,000 years ago with the advent of human knowledge sharing. But even before that, you can only say that there are genetic advantages if you accept that there is only one way to solve every problem.
A bio-chemist friend of mine who teaches at a university says, "Our 'A' Students go on to academia. Our 'B' Students go into clinical positions. Our 'C' Students just get rich." While he says this in a mocking way to try and deride the 'C' students as unworthy, he doesn't realize how close to the truth he is. First, what is success? Is success having a safe academic tenure where you are are free to pursue learning in your chosen field with little risk? Or is it being paid huge amounts of money after scrabbling and scraping to bring new products to market? Can't both be success? Why must both forms of success be the same value? And who gets to choose that value?
Some time check out the documentary, "The Alpinist" on netflix. This dude Marc-Andre Leclerc is quite possibly one of the most successful mountain climbers in history. Some of that might be because of certain genetic advantages. But the biggest cause of his success is his choices in life. He lived in a stairwell for years, climbing by day and eating ramen noodles at night. He is dirt poor, and a living legend in the climbing community, and his existence completely blows up the attempted remedy of this author.
Let's say this climber has a genetic advantage that makes him among the best. What are you going to do about it? He has no money to take. He doesn't even have a house since he just bums around the world sleeping on couches and climbing.
Or is the real moral failing of society that this expert climber *is* so poor? He chooses to spend each day living for the climb rather than building savings, or doing work that other people value. So is he successful or not? Other than "people should be free to make their own choices and live with the consequences" there is no moral answer to the case of Marc-Andre.
But that doesn't change the fact that people like this author will aggregate his paltry income into some quartile that they then use to bemoan the cruel inequality of our world. This guy is enormously successful in the area he chooses, but will be measured as a failure by people obsessed with income.
I will have to say, your friend is likely voicing wishful thinking and personal biases when he says the the 'A' students go into academia. There is little to suggest that this is the case.
Overt, many things - and concepts - humans have created do not exist in "nature" (unless of course you accept we are "natural" beings and unable to do anything not "natural").
No one in modern western politics argues for equality of outcomes so you have constructed a straw dog. On the other hand equality of opportunity is an unreachable goal worth striving for and a distribution of human wealth less top heavy than we presently experience - and which rivals the 1920s - is also a desirable goal and one even the wealthiest should favor in the interests of enlightened self interest, less the poorest among us slit their throats while they sleep. It has happened before.
Lefties have built an entire straw universe out of "equality of outcomes". Who exactly do you think your audience is?
Was Joe fucking retarded enough to repeat that bullshit?
Your algo needs some tweaking, sarcasmic. You already posted this verbatim above. I will therefore go ahead and post verbatim my reply:
Overt, many things - and concepts - humans have created do not exist in "nature" (unless of course you accept we are "natural" beings and unable to do anything not "natural").
Someone just got religious on us. Take it outside, god boy.
Diane, I'm an atheist. Believe in God is not required to and is in fact inimical to recognizing that humans created concepts like natural rights and even God,
Case in point: Lactose tolerance developed about 10,000 years ago and spread like wildfire.
It spread like wildfire, but not until the LBA or even the early iron age. Proto-Indo-Europeans like the Yamnaya and Corded Ware were dairying horses goats and cattle and incorporating milk into their diets even though they lacked the genes for lactase persistence at the time.
Sub-Saharan African lactase persistence is interesting because it involves different genes.
In almost every case, there is only one way to solve a problem. In the rest of the cases, there are a very small number of ways to solve a problem. Jesus fuck, I thought you libertarian retards were all-in on division of labor? Do you think a backed up sewer is a problem best solved by a person trained in the history of French literature, or a person trained as a plumber? Do you think a cardiac arrhythmia is a problem best solved by a person trained in computer science or a medical doctor trained in cardiology? The entire reason for a division of labor and the stratification produced thereby is because most problems are solved by specialization.
"In almost every case, there is only one way to solve a problem."
I have a problem. I need to eat. Let's see. I can go kill a buffalo. I can go split a log and eat grubs. I can pay a taco vendor and eat. I can beg on the street to get the money for a taco vendor. I can punch you in the throat and take your money for a taco vendor.
Your statement is idiotic on its face, and the next time you click "reply" you really ought to sit down and think about whether you are trying to be contrary for the sake of it, or if you are just shit posting.
Choosing the most generic, facile example in existence to try to bolster your idiotic, nonsensical lack of a point makes you look even more desperate and stupid than you did originally, so thanks for that.
I note you did not answer any of my questions, because when we drill down to specificity instead of the most vague generalities, most problems are solved by specialization, and genetics advantages certain people in certain specializations. Even your idiotic, generic, facile "problem" is solved by specialization. Nature actually genetically selected for the solution to your problem over about half a million years. In point of fact, a multitude of our forebears were unable to solve the problem "I need to eat" *AT ALL* let alone in a dozen magical ways that you can sitting your bloated ugly lardass in an opulent western society. The ones who died of starvation are evolutionary casualties. You're taking the solution for granted because you're a shallow thinking moron. But hey, feel absolutely free to go hire a structural engineer who thinks there's more than one way to solve a problem. I'd kinda enjoy seeing you die for the sake of a utopian fantasy.
No, actually your statement is idiotic on its face, and the next time you think about telling me what I should do before or after I click the "reply" button and ram your idiotic brainless tripe right back up your asshole where it originated, fuck off and die. This isn't your sekret club and I'll tell you whatever the fuck I want, whenever the fuck I want you little wannabe brownshit blowhard.
Also if you want to make threats don't be a passive aggressive faggot pussy about it. I guarantee you by the time your sub-literate mouth breathing mangina mustered the inkling to cock your fist to punch me in the throat, I'd be shitting down the hole I just put through your face. Fuck around, find out.
Looks like Tulpa is wearing her panties too tight today, and hates in when smarter people make a fool out of her!
Looks like sarcasmic has to live vicariously through people more intelligent than himself, even when they have been humiliated and discredited.
But hey, feel absolutely free to go hire a structural engineer who thinks there's more than one way to solve a problem.
Could be.
Which page should I turn to in that book to find the structural engineer who built a bridge or tunnel using silly putty and Star Trek physics instead of structural steel and conventional physics?
The idea that genetics creates advantages and disadvantages that ought to be penalized or rewarded (via redistribution) is obscene nonsense.
Obscene nonsense is an understatement.
Which "international studies hack" is going to be the Czar to oversee this redistribution towards a more 'equitable' society?
I wanna be the Czar of the Show!!!
I am more 'equitable' than ALL of the rest of you 'UN-equitable' fuckers put together, so give me a salary 2,879 times as high as the highest-paid among ye slackers, and I will take that job!
The very mention of E. O. Wilson makes me cringe.
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That being said, the idea that an individual's worth to society, or even to themselves, seems an artificial construct. It's sort of like trying to define the "fully self--acutualized individual" (ref Maslow).
Self-actualization is a completely individual assessment, and to attempting to measure it according to what worth an individual has to society is meaningless.
And trying to measure such attainment in a particular individual is equally fruitless. Were Henry Ford or Gandhi more "fully self-actualized" than a dirt farmer in North Dakota who nobody ever heard of? Which one felt more satisfied with their life? Which of the three were more successful in "pursuing their bliss?" Which one was happier?
An individual's "worth" to society is, ultimately, meaningless. An individual's worth to themself is everything.
It's appropriate that you'd be invoking this slave morality nonsense on the commemoration of the first century Jew who invented it.
So, then I take it that you feel that an individual's desire, and their efforts toward feeling fulfilled and happy in their life doesn't count for anything, whatever their perceived "benefit" to society?
Not exactly. I think (not feel, because that's a stupid basis for evaluating anything) that your hypothetical dirt farmer in North Dakota has to rely on Christian slave morality to give his life any form of meaning because it objectively has none. He does not want to face his mediocrity, his failure, his limitations and the superiority of those more successful than himself, so he rationalizes his lack of ambition, lack of talent, lack of skill, and lack of success as "pursuing his bliss". Idiotic false constructs like "self-actualization" are subjective nonsense, so asking whether a billionaire or a pauper is more "self-actualized" is as stupid as asking how many angels can fit on the head of a pin. Nevertheless, your NoDak dirt farmer is only happier or more self-satisfied than the captain of industry by the self-deception of inventing virtues of his poverty and inventing vices of the wealth he could never achieve. Or in the original construction of the Nazarene, ascribing spiritual enlightenment to the captive and spiritual depravity to the conqueror. It's how the mass of men leading lives of quiet desperation keep themselves from descending into suicidal madness.
"It's how the mass of men leading lives of quiet desperation keep themselves from descending into suicidal madness."
So, are Buddhist monks, living a live of poverty, by choice, merely fooling themselves? An old family friend (sadly, no longer with us), after running a successful plumbing business when he was young, garnered two PhDs at UC in Anthropology and English, and, by the time he was fifty, decided that goat ranching was what he really wanted to do, and did so for the rest of his life.
Obviously, he was a fairly sharp guy. Was he a "failure" because he decided not to pursue wealth or power, and, in the end, decided to go after what pleased him?
"So, are Buddhist monks, living a live of poverty, by choice, merely fooling themselves?"
That's literally the point of Buddhism.
It's pretty explicit about that.
"That's literally the point of Buddhism."
Yep. For some, it's the recognition that the pursuit of material goods creates an imbalance in the spirit which impedes enlightenment (or variations on that). Note: Though I did spend some time teaching at a Buddhist monastery (teaching), I don't buy into that myself, not being what one could call "spiritual, but it can be a problem for some people. On the other hand, if one's "bliss" is to be a "captain of industry," or own a barber shop, one should most definitely pursue those things.
Your imaginary friend pursued education because of his insecurity about his lack thereof, and returned to blue collar work because he was a cultural misfit in academia. I'm assuming you have absolutely no familiarity with Nietzsche, or the master-slave moral paradigm would make more sense to you.
Though philosophy was not my major, I am familiar with Nietzsche, ("Will to Power" and "Beyond Good and Evil"), as well as some Socrates, Augustine, Ockham, Boethius, and snippets from other philosophers.
A colleague of mine in grad school summed it up by saying that "All philosophers are a footnote to Socrates, except Nietzsche." And while that is certainly an oversimplification, there is some truth to it. I found Nietzsche, the little I have read of his, quite interesting, actually.
Who is this "imaginary friend" of whom you speak?
Last night in Pittsburgh, still at large suspects fired 90 shots at party of 200 mostly juveniles at a rented AirBNB house, killing 2 youth and wounding 11 others.
The mayor's office and the police have been urging anyone who knows the identity or has videos or other information about the shooters to contact the police.
But after 12 hours, the Pittsburgh Police, the Mayor's office and the entire woke news media still refuse to report the race of the victims or the shooters. And the Mayor's transgender
press secretary has already (several hours ago) blamed the shooting on the PA's GOP legislature (for not enacting more gun bans).
At the press conference today, nobody from the Mayor's office or the Police Department mentioned the race of the shooters or victims, and not even one reporter dare asked about the race of the shooters or the victims (for fear of being fired and falsely accused of being a white supremacist).
Due to this self censorship, it is obvious to everyone that the shooters and the victims were/are black, and that woke Democrat city officials and that woke media propagandists (who deceitfully call themselves journalists) are trying to misrepresent the facts.
Was the AirBNB a $250,000 house? If so, can anyone confirm sarcasmic's whereabouts, or the whereabouts of all the 80% AR-15s he built with his very rich and very important friends who had to pool their resources to rent a house 50% below the median home price for a weekend?
Drive bys are a cultural thing, like knife fights. To think the shooting was wrong just shows how racist you are
you wouldn't understand, it's a black thing
You know who else was concerned about being the master race…Jews.
http://www.newsweek.com/jews-are-smartest-race-world-and-superior-humans-israeli-lawmaker-claims-977896
You know who else twisted the words of one person into a worldwide racial conspiracy as a justification for committing genocide... Nazis like Misek.
Every time anyone exposes the satanic nature of Jewish ideology and actions that tired old meme is trotted out along with the same old unproven accusations.
You can’t refute what I do say, so you lie.
Or possibly I don't believe in superstitious nonsense like the "satanic nature" of something as simple and innate to humanity as political tribalism and consequently don't particularly care if some midwit politician from a country 10,000 miles away runs cover for his boss by invoking his imagined superior intellect, let alone use that as a rationalization for the institutional murder of millions of people 80 years ago, which ironically enough I deny happened.
The delusion of superiority is deeply ingrained in the Jewish religion..
According to the Israel Democracy Institute, approximately two thirds of Israeli Jews believe that Jews are the "chosen people".
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_as_the_chosen_people
Being the "chosen people" and being a "master race" are entirely different things you mendacious Nazi piece of shit. If you had ever cracked a bible or tanakh you'd realize that being "chosen" never got the Jews much in the way of physical advantage. It's a reference to their having been chosen to receive the law and be its moral exemplar to the world. Their own scriptures are a legendary pseudo-history of the god who supposedly "chose" them continually destroying their kingdoms and societies as punishment for their insolence and failure to live up to the obligation imposed upon them by the law. In consideration of the fact that Christianity saturated what would eventually become the western world with Jewish moral philosophy, they're probably right.
Keep talking fuckwit. You’re demonstrating my point.
“Moral exemplar” Hahaha
The holiest prayer an unabashed plan to lie.
Lying 166 times between 1900 and 1945 about holocausts of six million Jews around the world to beg for money.
Terrorizing Palestinians for 74 years.
Bragging about owning the satanic pyramid scheme freemasonry.
The list goes on.
As I mentioned I don't believe in any superstitious nonsense so I don't believe the Jews were chosen by any deity for any particular purpose, I was just pointing out the difference between their view of their religious superiority and your racialist Nazi genocidal bullshit. Nearly every religion lays claim on absolute truth and moral superiority. That's not the same thing as believing in a master race and being a racialist genocidal totalitarian despot.
Also if by demonstrating your point you mean baiting you into a paranoid, deranged, lunatic conspiracy theorist meltdown involving freemasonry and holocaust denial, then yes, I'm happy to say I did that.
I hear you denying what I said but I don’t hear you refuting it.
You’ve admitted here that Jews think they’re superior, just like Nazis, as I originally pointed out.
I’ve demonstrated just how delusional you, Jews are.
Yes, I’m happy with this.
Lol. I'm Irish and German, but it's good to see you obsessively throwing around the term "Jew" as if it were an epithet. Christians believe everyone but them is evil and going to hell. Muslims believe everyone but them is evil and going to hell. Jews believe everyone but them is evil and going to hell. Collectively they represent about 2/3 of the population of planet earth. What you're describing is a feature of most religions. Not a genocidal campaign of extermination targeted towards a religious minority. That's a complete and total refutation of your racialist bullshit, not just a denial. If you'd like me to rehash all of the evidence you deny and dismiss that the Holocaust took place, including the people with serial numbers tattooed on their arms that I used to encounter during my volunteer work, there's no point. The evidence is public and undeniable, and the only thing you've ever offered to contradict it is racist tropes about das yuden and their tricknology.
You called the Jewish chosen people as self described “moral exemplars” and I demonstrated with irrefutable evidence that they are anything but.
Considering that there was never a holocaust of Jews committed by Nazis or anyone else, Nazis are no worse than Jews. In fact irrefutable Jewish depravity , some of which I’ve described, far exceeds anything that Nazis were ever proven to do including considering themselves a master race.
Jews and Nazis are like peanut butter and chocolate.
You’ve only refuted your own lie.
If Germany ever wanted to exterminate captive prisoners and destroy all evidence of it, they would have simply shot them in trains in the middle of nowhere. They wouldn’t have created elaborate impossible not to mention totally observable insecticide gas chambers in prison camps or any of the equally ridiculous lies of the holocaust story. They wouldn’t have tattooed anyone or let any witness or Jew live.
If you deny what I have said here or in the past refute it. You haven’t.
You realize that Jews are pretty much genetically identical to Palestinians?
The difference is culture.
I do.
Ms. Harden's gonna be called a racist.
The single most important factor is coming from a two parent home.
This sounds suspiciously like The Bell Curve, and it and the author should be cancelled
I did not read all the comments. Did anyone mention Harrison Bergeron?
No. Which is actually quite surprising since most libertarian midwits like yourself mistake Harrison Bergeron for a condemnation of egalitarian socialism rather than the satirical caricature of Birchers that it actually is.
A satirical caricature of a political movement that hasn't been relevant in 60+ years? If it ever actually was and wasn't a fringe thing like Lyndon Larouche..
Harrison Bergeron was written in 1961. Do you need me to help you with the quickmaths on that, midwit? 1961 was.... wait for it now.............. 61 years ago! In 1961 the CPUSA had around 20,000 members. By comparison the John Birch Society had 100,000 members and an estimated 4-5 million followers. And just like the TEA Party and "insurrectionists" in the Trump era, Birchers were the favored scapegoats of the left wing intelligentsia. Vonnegut was an avowed socialist and famously loathed Ayn Rand, Bill Buckley, the Birch Society, and anything he associated with American conservatism. Reading Harrison Bergeron in isolation as if it was the only thing Vonnegut ever wrote is the only way you can understand as a tale about the evils of egalitarian socialism and the morality of libertarian social darwinism, which Vonnegut eviscerated at every turn.
So you're saying Vonnegut wrote Harrison Bergeron in advocacy of egalitarian socialism? That that's how he thought the world should be?
A few years ago, NPR kept re-running an interview with Vonnegut where he intelligently suggested that the problem with government is no one ever thought about the future, and so what we needed was a "Ministry of the future".
With that kind of insight...
Clearly, as can be seen by his top 3 bulletpoints, Vonnegut was an top-down environmental optimist. Or maybe he was a pessimist who didn't live to have the phrasing 'bag ladies and bag gentlemen' corrected to 'bag persons' by his betters.
No. Not exactly. Although he was an egalitarian socialist, and your attempts to make him into anything else are the height of self-deluded idiocy. It's a straightforward satire. It's not advocating for a position, it is mocking one. The world of Harrison Bergeron is Vonnegut's caricature of the way that conservatives and anti-communists believed socialism worked. It's a clever satire. Obviously too clever, since the subjects of its mockery have taken it up as a paragon of their own ideology.
Believe it or not, in novels spanning hundreds of pages, you can eviscerate more than one thing. You're right to assert it's by no means libertarian, but wrong to suggest it also doesn't lampoon egalitarianism taken to it's extreme. There's absolutely no way you can read it and come away thinking handicapping was portrayed as a positive rather than condemned.
Harrison Bergeron is a 9 page short story, not a novel spanning hundreds of pages. The "handicapper general" is a FUCKING CARICATURE. Jesus fuck you dense motherfuckers are stupid. In Harrison Bergeron Vonnegut is not setting up the handicappers as heroes, he's satirizing the viewpoint of American conservatives and anti-communists. The handicapper general represents the fever dreams of American conservatives and anti-communists. It doesn't represent Vonnegut's viewpoint in any fucking way, shape or form. Fuck. Do you dumb fucking hillbilly sub-literate pricks have ANY fucking concept of what SATIRE fucking means?
It was? Perhaps we read different stories. See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron
We didn't read different stories, you're just a historically illiterate retard who thinks Vonnegut had a sudden pang of libertarian individualism in his late 30s despite having spent the previous decade and the subsequent four decades consistently and vociferously opposing precisely that. You are exactly the type of person being mocked by the story, but you're too stupid to realize it.
I decline to trade gratuitous insults. Others can decide for themselves what was being satirized in Harrison Bergeron:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron
Linking to the same article in a user-generated pseudo-encylopedia that doesn't address the topic under discussion will surely bolster your case. As long as you've got wikipedia open in your browser, you should read the article on Kurt Vonnegut, then re-read Harrison Bergeron and ask yourself if your interpretation makes any sense whatsoever in light of the ideology of the author.
Others can decide for themselves what was being satirized in Harrison Bergeron.
GPT-3 is not ready for primetime.
The impression I get from reading the plot summary is that Vonnegut was pretentious as hell and resented regular Americans for being happy. Seems like he felt he was better than everyone else and had to "handicap" himself for their comfort. Comes off as very passive-aggressive narcissism.
This is all just a gut feeling though, since I've never read vonnegut and don't plan to, just remember his name used to be THE go-to cliche invoked by teens prior to emo becoming a more defined thing.
"Harrison Bergeron" occupies seven pages of an anthology on my bookshelf (The Very Best of Fantasy & Science Fiction). I invite others to read it themselves and draw their own conclusions.
I diagree with Rob Reiner's politics, but "The Princess Bride" is one of my favorite movies. ("Between Time and Timbuktu" - based on a number of Vonnegut's works - is also a very funny movie.)
Unfortunately, Reason does not allow me to delete or edit my comments.
If I could, I would change "diagree" to "disagree".
Those who wish to read "Harrison Bergeron" online can find it here:
http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html
You could read it that way as well, especially considering how self-important Vonnegut was. But it's much simpler than that. It's just a satire of Red Scare commie panic. Which was a popular genre at the time. Dr. Strangelove would be released in theaters 3 years after Harrison Bergeron was published.
Props for taking the high road. Read Harrison Bergeron. Read Player Piano. Read all of Vonnegut. Saying Vonnegut was a socialist and Bergeron was an indictment of the John Birch society is a stupid, stupid argument. It's like saying Orwell was a socialist and he wrote 1984 as an indictment of conservatism and in defense of socialism.
Orwell was a socialist, for your edification. But it's not like that at all, for two reasons. First, because I never said that Harrison Bergeron is a defense of socialism, I said it was a satire of American conservatives and anti-communists. Seoncd, because 1984 is not a painfully obvious satire, and Orwell did not make a practice of satirizing anti-communists for a decade before writing 1984. You read into Harrison Bergeron your ideology instead of the author's and missed the point. Just like Geezer, you're the punchline of the joke, and making yourself one once again by failing to realize it.
Everyone here know vaunagate and Orwell were socialists.
Just protect everyone's equal human rights, and stop worrying about trying to adjust the outcomes. Let those who are concerned help the less fortunate voluntarily.
Hey look a propaganda book written to promote another [WE] 'poor' mob needs the legal ability to STEAL your goods by GOV-GUNS..... As-if there wasn't enough of those already.
How about skipping all the hobnobbing... It's funny to watch these Nazi-Regime fans talk about 'Demand' and utterly play 100% ignorant to 'Supply' side...
"genetic inequality can 'be used to make the case for greater redistribution of resources.'", well Dr. Einstein W(here)TF do you suppose those resources are going to come from? Planet delusion? Utopia?
Minus all the hobnobbing B.S. Excuses to STEAL; the fact is there can't be a 'Final Product' in Demand without a 'Supply'. So wishing on a falling star that supply will magically appear for 'bad DNA' (apparently too bad to generate any supply on its own) does not address where that 'supply' is going to come from...
We'll short of ARMED THEFT of those that do Create Supply. When all the +DNA people get tired of working for free the -DNA is still going to be supply-less...
UNLESS of course........ SLAVERY is re-enacted.....
Once the party of slavery... Still the party of Slavery.
“Harden cites another study that found 27 percent of children with the lowest polygenic scores whose fathers' incomes were in the top quartile graduated from college, compared with 24 percent of children with the highest polygenic scores whose fathers' incomes were in the bottom quartile. ”
And how different were their life outcomes? A low polygenic college grad vs a high polygenic without a diploma?
This seems a strange argument the author is making: outcomes are largely due to genetics, but the only outcome worth caring about is a college education experience?
If your college can magically transform people’s outcomes, then, by all means, give it to everyone, but if polygenic scores are so important, then I doubt that’s the case, and you’d just be wasting your time. Pick one.
The only way "college" increases your income for many majors is govt equity programs like teacher unions. I would surmise about 50% of kids finishing a 4 year degree are less intelligence and have less critical thinking skills than 40 years ago. Education, social "science", and "gender studies" produce little in rational thinking adults and need "govt" programs to employ them.
This seems a strange argument the author is making: outcomes are largely due to genetics, but the only outcome worth caring about is a college education experience?
Father's income, apparently.
Genetics are affected by culture over time. Preferences in a society will drive certain genes to be reproduced in greater numbers. That and just plan "dumb luck" in random DNA changes explain the current situation why some "tribes" are just left behind in terms of mathmatics/engineering/critical thinkings, problem solving and so on.
The mistake the author makes is to look at the present and not understand things have changed drastically the last 100 years. As free markets and liberty took over, talented "poor" folks could start to increase their wealth. My grandparents immigrated as peasants from southern Italy with little formal education past grade school. Their kids finished high school and some trade schools and 2 year colleges. Their grandkids became doctors, dentists, engineers, pilots, and business folks most with advanced degrees.
The problem is generationally bad cultural behaviors that don't promote reading, work, thrift, and critical thinking. You find yourself driving intelligence down in these situations after a few generations.
The solution is the free market and stop promoting bad behavior in the culture. That and not lowering standards to get the "social outcomes" that make wokes feel better about themselves.
stop promoting bad behavior in the culture.
Celebrating! We celebrate failed cultures.
Do genetic differences require us to embrace progressive politics?
No. That's not how science works. Read a book sometime. Next question.
This article failed to mention that behavioral genetics, as a discipline, collapsed a few decades ago. It is not science. It is progressive wish casting without pure science. Molecular genetics supplanted behavioral genetics in the 1990s with the launch of the Human Genome Project. In the mid-2000s, RNA sequencing was embraced via the advent of next-generation sequencing technology. The Encyclopedia of DNA Elements (ENCODE), a followup to the Human Genome Project, published in 2012 over 30 scientific papers characterizing the roles of the functional elements of the human genome.
Identification and analysis of functional elements in 1% of the human genome by the ENCODE pilot project
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2212820/
ENCODE explained
https://www.nature.com/articles/489052a
TL,DR: the author of the “book” is a scientist in her own mind. Fake science, fake news.
I'm not sure what you mean by "it collapsed"; do you mean there wasn't a lot of new funding and research? That may be the case, but how does that affect the validity of prior results?
The classical results relating genetics and behavior remain true: IQ and some other measurable behavioral traits are strongly inherited.
I'm not sure what you mean by "it collapsed"; do you mean there wasn't a lot of new funding and research? That may be the case, but how does that affect the validity of prior results?
I think, giving the stupid 'gay muslim conservative sock puppet' way more credit than deserved: the social/political aspects of the movement relied on an assumption of causality and various other poor (non-)statistical associations as you indicate below. Prior to sequencing, the genome was wizard in front of the curtain and a man behind it. You see this even fairly recently with even molecular biologists (or venture capitalists with the credentials of molecular biologists) touting things like doubling the height and yield of apple trees or creating cat-sized herbivorous dinosaurs, relying solely on the mysticism of genetics. After sequencing, there was no "make apple trees twice as large" gene, or assemblage of them, just the massive (and wasteful) conventional engineering undertaking of figuring out how to pump water twice as high while maintaining the productivity of the fruit that didn't require the extra energy to do so and without tearing the tree apart. The realization that a cat-sized apatasaurus would either would die for lack of ability to feed itself or effectively be re-engineered from the ground up such that it was no longer, in any way, an apatasaurus.
The classical results relating genetics and behavior remain true: IQ and some other measurable behavioral traits are strongly inherited.
Actually, no. If you skim the links I provided, you will learn that the former paradigm in genetics of “junk DNA” comprising most of the genome was flushed with the ENCODE papers. To put is as simply as possible, there are 30 trillion cells in the human body. Each cell has 46 homologous chromosomes (23 from each parent). The cells in the brain have the same chromosomes as cells in the heart, liver, arm, gluteus maximus, stomach, pancreas, thigh, etc. The Central Dogma of Genetics states genetic information flows from DNA, replication, mRNA (transcription), tRNA (translation), proteins. The reason why the chromosomes in our liver make a liver and not a kidney, is because the genes expressed (translated) proteins for making a liver. It also has the capacity to translate genes to make a stomach, but those genes are silenced. Those that are expressed are turned on via transcription factors specific to make a liver. ENCODE findings revealed that junk DNA does not exist. While there are specific genes on chromosomes that make who we are, the areas on the chromosomes surrounding those genes govern the very genes (aka epigenetics). The reason why some people died from COVID was because their genetic innate immunology profile did not express functioning macrophages, dendritic cells and monocytes that activated the T cells that saved the rest of us. B cells / antibodies played a minor role. In other words, we have the exact same genetic programming in all cells. Those that govern cortical activity are turned on based on their environment. Its not that Johnny is stupid because he inherited shitty genes. It is because Johnny’s environment (nurture) did not turn on the genetic material (nature) he inherited. Ditto for COVID.
Skim the links I provided. It is all there. Molecular geneticists arrive to conclusions after looking at the transcription / translation of genetic material. Behavioral geneticists have always relied on making conclusions and then finding “genetic” answers according to the older paradigm. Given today’s emphasis on RNA sequencing and epigenetic factors, the behavioral geneticists were left behind with fake science.
Heritability of traits is measured by observations of identical twins, paternal twins, and unrelated twins growing up separately or in the same household; molecular biology, genes, or DNA aren't used in those studies. As it turns out, IQ is about as heritable as height, meaning 70-80% is genetic.
(Fortunately, as it also turns out, IQ is not particularly strongly correlated with success in life, so your genetics are not your destiny.)
Heritability of traits is measured by observations of….molecular biology, genes, or DNA aren't used in those studies.
The observable is called phenotype, as in height, skin color, x, y and z traits. Phenotype derives from genotype, the genetic material (molecular biology, genes, DNA, etc). As I stated earlier, behavioral geneticists merely report on the phenotype but they do not dig below the surface to inspect the genotype. They got away with it under prior outdated genetic paradigms, e.g. the “junk DNA” shtick, but genetics has mushroomed tremendously just in the past 20 years. Theirs is a fools errand. You can not separate phenotype from genotype.
As it turns out, IQ is about as heritable as height, meaning 70-80% is genetic.
Actually, no. Gregor Mendel, the father of genetics, stated it best under the rubric of independent assortment…total and complete random assortment of genetic material by chromosomes during Metaphase. You would have to do a Punnett Square to calculate probabilities. Why bother? But if you insist, first you would have to find on which chromosomes all of the “intelligence” genes are located, and then use Mendelian inheritance.
IQ is not particularly strongly correlated with success in life, so your genetics are not your destiny
Absolutely. Mensa members work for organizations, get jobs, managed by people with lower IQs than them. If they were so smart, why work for someone else? Because there is more to success than IQ
I suggest you simply read up on twin studies, since you don't seem to understand how they work.
I suggest you read up on pigeon chess, since it's the only game you seem to know how to play.
I can imagine it must be challenging for you to understand a complex science like genetics. I have provided several links to scholarly academic articles in reputable scientific publications, and you have referenced / quoted none of them. You keep banging out archaic beliefs (twin studies) that were interpreted using obsolete scientific paradigms, meaning, you prove my point: the behavioral “geneticists” engage in wishcasting, making conclusions on whims, then cherry pick scientific data, albeit antiquated data. They are not scientists and you do yourself no favors by using their arguments. Better for you to update your knowledge with recent advances in the field of genetics. Follow the science!
That or youre just the classic internet Dark Triad Troll, exhibiting Machiavellianism, Narcissism and Psychopathy.
In all the years of twin studies I can only think of two occasions when they have produced a meaningful result and I’d be nervous about saying that monozygotic [identical] twins are truly representative of the population. I abandoned my twin studies in 1972
Dr Marcus Pembrey, emeritus professor of paediatric genetics at University College London
Yes, links that are utterly irrelevant to the question of heritability of IQ.
It's so funny when Internet trolls like you pretend to know science.
My 2 cents as someone with a genetics background-there are some genetic variants associated with better executive function in the genes involved in the dopamine pathway and my guess is that people who are successful academically and economically have such variants among others compared with those who aren’t. It’s interesting too that those with high educational attainment but low incomes kids’ are as likely to finish college as those whose dads have less education but high income. I think this understates that many people who work in the trades have kids who take over the family business without going to college and are at least as successful as their parents. Meanwhile many people on the autism spectrum rack up degrees (high educational attainment) but end up divorced or in low end jobs which hurts their kids chances of completing college.
In fact, if you correct for a few variables (smoking, divorce, etc.), there is little correlation between IQ and income, except at the very low end.
"Like being born to a rich or poor family, being born with a certain set of genetic variants is the outcome of a lottery of birth," the behavioral geneticist Kathryn Paige Harden argues in The Genetic Lottery. "And, like social class, the outcome of the genetic lottery is a systemic force that matters for who gets more, and who gets less, of nearly everything we care about in society."
Well, we could go down the Sam Harris road and suggest that the universe is pre-determined... and at that point you know what comes next.
I understand she has to say it to not get burned at the stake, but at the same it really undermines your credibility to claim genes can influence behavior, genes vary in prevalence between groups, but magically, that's always somehow counterbalanced by other genes, because mother nature enforces early 21st century views on social equity at a genetic level. She could readily prove that by running the numbers in her dataset controlling for differences in SES et al. but I guarantee that analysis is entirely absent.
If genes associated with increased negative behavioral traits have group differences, she expects us to seriously believe that in any group where their prevalence is increased there's automatically other genes to lower that trait to balance the equation, and observed behavioral differences matching the difference are then, just by pure cosmic coincidence, caused exclusively by society? Come on.
There may not be many genetic differences between ethnic groups per se, but within ethnic groups there could well be differences among classes. Compare recent immigrants who are highly motivated to be successful with earlier ones who were brought here as slaves/laborers.
Dear society,
I'm a lazy self-entitled armed robber who will take whatever I want from who-ever I want ...... but it's okay; I have bad DNA....
Sincerely,
Just another P.O.S. Nazi-Regime fan making excuses to steal.
"They don't think it be like it is, but it do."
It's hilarious how the actions of some racist white guys decades ago even centuries ago implicates a genetic predisposition to racism, CRT but generations of success economically is discounted as white privilege.
Yet go back three generations and my relatives were dirt poor? How in the world did that happen?
"You used your white privilege to exploit colored people and enrich yourself at their expense."
Let's not be hasty now, it could be that sneaky Jew tricknology that Misek believes in.
"In the US today, whether one is a member of the 'haves' or the 'have-nots' is increasingly a matter of whether or not one has a college degree,"
So, the answer should not be "Let's see how we can get everybody a college degree", deflating the value of said degree to the point of effective meaninglessness. It should be figuring out how to convince folks that do the hiring that certain jobs don't require a degree.
Natural selection exists whether you are hunting mammoths or building companies. The better suited succeed and the worst suited fail. That used to mean getting tramples to death; now it means a job that doesn’t pay so well. What it doesn’t mean is the successful person is somehow obligated to support the unsuccessful one. Elon Musk is smarter than me but that doesn’t mean he owes me money. Progressives want to use this disparity of ability to justify redistribution of wealth; like forcing the inclusion of the weakest hunters on your hunting party. If we succumb to this flawed thinking on societal scale, we will be supplanted by the societies than don’t. The other mammoth hunters will win out and we will go hungry. The world needs gatherers too.
Bingo!
There is a tendency of college grads to marry and mate with college grads. Also high school dropouts find each other. Given that the IQ ( average or mean)of college grads is around 115 their offspring has a chance of being fairly bright. Then we know that fully 10% of the population is not fit for an military job, their spawns may suffer from a lower intelligence.
Not a perfect prediction, but somewhat telling.