Two Republican Governors Veto Bans on Trans Athletes Competing Against Girls
Both argue that the bills open the state up to costly lawsuits for very little, if any, gain.

Two Republican governors have vetoed bills in Utah and Indiana that seek to ban trans teens from competing in school sports on girls' teams.
On Monday, Indiana Gov. Eric Holcomb vetoed House bill HEA 1041, which not only would have banned trans females from competing on girls teams, but also required schools (including some private schools) and athletic organizations to establish grievance procedures for people to complain, and established an authority for people to sue in civil court for alleged violations. The law included no similar ban on trans males who wished to compete with males or with females.
The vagueness of this enforcement is in part what prompted Holcomb's veto. In his veto letter he wrote, "[S]tudent-athletes could be treated differently according to which school they attend and compete for. Frustration of students, parents and administrators will likely follow. This of course only increases the likelihood of litigation against our schools with the courts having to adjudicate the uncertainty."
And all those risks are in the service of attempting to fight something that isn't happening in Indiana. Holcomb writes, "[The bill] implies that the goals of consistency and fairness in competitive female sports are not currently being met. After thorough review, I find no evidence to support either claim even if I support the overall goal."
In Utah, Gov. Spencer Cox's veto of H.B. 11 is a more complicated affair. H.B. 11 originally was not a ban on trans students competing in girls' sports at all. Instead, H.B. 11 sought to establish an eligibility commission to evaluate trans girls and determine whether they could compete based on the extent of their treatment. The goal was to make sure that any trans student who wanted to compete in girls' sports was actually committed and receiving treatments that suppressed the biological advantages of being born male. The commission would have had the authority to block individual athletes who still clearly had advantages of male biology. The bill was developed through a complex negotiation process over time with the participation of LGBT advocates. And Utah's current policy for trans students already requires a full year of transitional hormone therapy before they're allowed to compete against other girls.
But in the final hours of the legislative session, Utah state Sen. Daniel McCay (R–Riverton) introduced an amendment that changed the bill and transformed it to a full ban on trans girls competing with other girls. Furthermore, the amendment also struck down parts of H.B. 11 that provided indemnity to schools and athletic organizations from costs of lawsuits that could result from the enforcement of the bill. Under this amended H.B. 11, schools and the state's athletic associations (including the Utah High School Athletic Association, a private organization) would be obligated to enforce the law, but would not be protected from the costs of any lawsuits that resulted from its implementation.
In a lengthy letter released Tuesday night, Cox explained that part of the reason for his veto was because the amended version of the bill could expose schools and the athletic association to debilitating (or even bankrupting) lawsuits.
"[W]hy would we risk significant legal exposure for some of our poorest schools with no financial support when other states are already funding identical legal defenses across the country?" Cox writes. "If the state insists on a policy that encourages significant litigation, I believe the state should pay for the litigation."
And all of this, Cox details, is in the service of stopping exactly one trans girl from competing in sports in that state. He notes in the end of his veto letter that there are 75,000 student athletes in Utah, only four of which are trans, and only one of which is female (the bill does not care about trans students competing in boys' sports). All this culture war fighting is over what is currently a single girl competing.
But as Cox notes, this is not without potential massive financial costs—and those costs will fall upon the taxpayers. There is a certain fiscal conservatism in the decisions by both Cox and Holcomb to veto these bills. They are civil lawsuit factories, and it's becoming increasingly clear it's not an accident, given the amendment to H.B. 11 that deliberately removed the legal protections.
Both vetoes seem likely to be overridden. In Indiana, lawmakers need only a simple majority to override the veto. In Utah, some lawmakers are saying that they want to keep H.B. 11 because they believe the total ban will be struck down by the courts, but the commission—the part that was hammered out by compromise—could remain intact.
Utah's compromise (assuming the ban is indeed tossed out by courts) is about as smart a way of dealing with the complex challenges coming from trans participation in sports as we're likely to get. It doesn't make assumptions that a trans athlete has advantages over other girls, but it also doesn't dismiss the possibility, and creates a system to evaluate each trans athlete.
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Any cisfemale athlete who complains about getting beaten by a transwoman is just a sore loser who needs to practice harder.
#TransWomenAreWomen
Just get used to seeing a penis in the locker room.
Yeah. So? According to Mr. Shackford, ciswomen are hateful, intolerant prudes if they want to limit their exposure to cock & balls while they're changing or showering.
That's such a winning message coming from a gay man.
I don't understand how this even became an issue. All this trans shit and gender identity has gotten so fucking stupid. You're born with two chromosomes. You can't turn a Y into an X and you can't turn an X into a Y. Deal with it. Fuck.
The red pilling continues.
He’s probably short of funds to buy booze until the first.
Yes, the law should read: "Each person will be assigned a sex based on their sex chromosomes; those with two X's will be considered female, and those with one X and one Y will be considered males. Others who have 3 or more sex chromosomes will be considered males if they have at least one Y chromosome."
Easy peasy.
sure
This can be reduced: “If all sex chromosomes are x, you are female. Otherwise you are male.”
This includes many cases that don’t occur in nature but covers all the occurring ones correctly.
Also, why are you doing this? And why am I doing this?
This includes many cases that don’t occur in nature but covers all the occurring ones correctly.
Not quite. It is possible to be male with two X chromosomes or female with XY (though very rare.) This is because a chromosome is like a packet of M&Ms, and it's the individual M&Ms (the genes) that provide the functions - like sending out the chemical signals to make you grow testicles. Occasionally you'll get a packet of M&Ms that doesn't have any yellow M&Ms.
Likewise you'll (very) occasionally get a Y chromosome that doesn't have an SRY gene - and in mammals it's the SRY gene that initiates the development of male gonads (which in turn, via their testosterone production develop the secondary male sex characteristics - penis, beard, deep voice, hairy chest, tendency to boast etc)
And conversely you'll very occasionaly find an SRY gene on an X chromosome in a sperm.
But for pratical purposes, these very rare genetic abnormalities (which usually result in infertility) have nothing at all to do with "trans" people. I'd be surprised if there's a single person on the planet who identifies as trans, who actually has an SRY gene on the X chromosome or lacks one on the Y.
Virtually all trans people have utterly conventional genotypes and utterly conventional phenotypes. "Trans men" are almost always unambiguously female - they have ovaries, and "trans women" are almost always unambiguously male - they have testes.
And that, my friends is the true definition of sex. Genotype is a very good proxy measurement, but it is sometimes wrong. Phenotype is the true measure. Testes maketh man, and ovaries maketh woman.
Thank you.
For the purposes of anything to do with the body, this is pretty much perfect as is.
I might (emphasis on might) allow that someone who has gone far enough to completely remove their existing original genitalia and replace it with their "gendered" (or wtf I'm supposed to call it) genitalia, can be treated as their "gender" for social (not physical, i.e. gymnastic, swimming, or military) activities. But I'd need to be pretty sure that that is how they really view themselves, and it's not just a thing they're doing for the moment (which rules out any trans stuff for anyone under the age of 16 and probably 18).
It will be lawsuits all around because of you and the cultural marxists you back. If men cannot beat women, lawsuit; if women cannot compete in sports on a level playing field, lawsuits. By destroying all definitions and categories in your short sighted zeal for "inclusion" you are demanding the exclusion of half the population.
"The goal was to make sure that any trans student who wanted to compete in girls' sports was actually committed and receiving treatments that suppressed the biological advantages of being born male."
How about adding weights in a handicapping system?
It would add a bit of real drama to the swimming, for sure.
All sports should be as boring as a restrictor plate nascar race.
Florida man to the rescue.
There is first place, and first female finisher. Simple.
https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Gov.-Ron-DeSantis-Proclamation-Declaring-Emma-Weyant-as-NCAA-500y-Freestyle-National-Champion.pdf
What do you suppose the chicks with dicks trophy will look like?
Tony's drinking cups.
It works somewhat. When my wife and I do 5k or 10k runs there is no division at the starting line but you get to see your overall ranking as well as ranking by sex and age. So long as these competitions are sex-segregated the inclusion of men in women's competition is unacceptable. I wouldn't be bothered by trans-women competing against men. I wouldn't be bothered by trans-men competing against women so long as they aren't taking testosterone (assuming the other competitors aren't allowed to use steroids either.) I also am not bothered by trans-men competing against men. I take issue with people gaining an unfair biological advantage by simply twisting the definition to choose their competition.
On occasion I have run in place of my wife because she was unable and didn't want to waste the registration. In some of those instances I would have placed highly or even won against women in her age group. In each of these cases I immediately ask for the bib number to be disqualified upon completion. It would be unfair to the women for a man to take their spot
What about the NY marathon, where a non binary (man) won the non binary class, but was beaten by 100 women. Why not just do away with time altogether and give everyone a participation trophy? Everyone wins!
These women are going to be allowed to give to the girls' teams good and hard for a few years before the woke finally accede that there are in fact measurable biological differences between the sexes and react too far in the other direction by handicapping some competitors with weights and straps a la Bergeron Harrison.
Real men should be all in on this. It should put the nail in the coffin of most women's sports which are only interesting to the athletes and their families anyway.
As soon as enough suburban soccer moms (or softball moms) see their daughters losing starting spots, and then college scholarships, politicians will receive enough pressure to change the laws. If there's one thing stronger than political ideology, it's the desire of parents to get their kids into the best college possible, especially if they can do so on an athletic scholarship. (Many parents spend more on preparing their kids for sports excellence than it would cost to just save up the money and pay tuition).
If there's one thing stronger than political ideology, it's the desire of college administrators to collect tuition.
As soon as enough suburban soccer moms (or softball moms) see their daughters losing starting spots, and then college scholarships, politicians will receive enough pressure to change the laws.
Don't be forgetting the injuries in contact sports.
The law included no similar ban on trans males who wished to compete with males or with females.
Why would it ? "Trans males" (aka females) have no biological advantages in competition with actual males. So they're not going to spoil the boys' competitions. The best man will still win. And if a "trans male" somehow manages to win against all the biological odds, good luck to her.
an amendment that changed the bill and transformed it to a full ban on trans girls competing with other girls.
ie
"an amendment that changed the bill and transformed it to a full ban on boys, who are pretending to be girls, competing with actual girls"
FTFY
the bill does not care about trans students competing in boys' sports
So you keep saying, but it's no less dumb a thing to say second time around.
Yeah, the point isn't to limit what trans people can do, it's to allow women's/girls' leagues to exist for the reason they were created.
In general, men's leagues are just leagues and don't specifically exclude women. The only reason women's leagues exist is because women cannot compete against male athletes in pretty much any sport.
Yeah, if a biological female wants to compete with other biological females, fine.
If they want to compete with men, well, there has never been a gender rule for men's sports.
As a one time relatively serious competitor who has, at times, been beaten by a women in a select situation ( fat and a little bit out of shape) I am glad to have women compete against me. In one case it was a national caliber young lady who successfully completed but did not win the mid level men's division we were in. I did not complain, even though there were one or two higher categories she could have been in against men and not my category. She would not have done well though. If anyone of us guys thought it would an acceptable move to enter the women's race, well, I don't think it would have ended well. Any guy who does this would/should receive a boo's and derision from me. What a freaking loser these "men" are.
That's the other thing. What kind of an asshole do you have to be to think that entering into a women's competition when you clearly have a male physique is cool and everyone should just go along with it?
Nearly every democrat.
A bully.
There are things today that are called medical conditions that used to be called mental illness.
It puts me on the wrong side of history, but I don't see how much of this can be considered normal, or should be normalized.
If common sense reasoning is on the wrong side of history, that just means that society is on the wrong side of history.
It is a great way to act upon your hate and jealousy for cis people. He is making them pay for being biological females. And oh boy is it working well for him. I am thoroughly enjoying it.
Talking about the swimmer guy now, of course.
Guess what state the NCAA is headquartered in?
Guess what state has the highest rate of illiteracy in the US? California, here we come.
When Lia Thomas is done swimming, stops the 'therapy', and once again proclaims himself to be a man, will he still be stunning and brave?
William Thomas will be ignored, Lia Thomas will remain the eternal heroine.
Just ask Chelsea Manning.
That should be the condition. If you're a transwoman and you won any kind of title or medal, or you took any kind of athletic scholarship or money intended for female athletes, you either have to stay a tramswoman forever, or you have to pay back the full value of what you took or won.
Honestly, if the dude is doing this whole thing as a charade to expose the absurdity of tranny tyranny... yes, it will be stunning and brave.
I'd respect the hell out of him and laugh my ass off.
Thats even better. I thought he might be doing it to make biological females pay for being biologically female. I am enjoying it a lot. I hope there will be more like him. For every minute the spineless pussies let him get away with it, they deserve him more.
where the fuck is the "Hey We're Actually Chicks Over Here Fuck Off, Dude" brigade and why are they allowing this?
That is perhaps the most puzzling thing. I'm actually quite surprised that there aren't a lot of female athletes protesting this loudly.
The word is that they are being threatened by the schools they attend.
Seems likely. I can only imagine that most of them think this is some bullshit.
They should organize and file class action lawsuits. That should straighten this mess out.
Cancel culture. They even go after J K Rowling, so these poor girls ain't got a chance.
There's a swimmer, from VA Tech I think, who placed 17th in qualifiers (16 swim in finals) and voiced her disappointment on Twitter in rather mild terms.
She got banned.
Cause they will get dragged over the coals by the Twitter mob.
Shackford, you're such a gaslighting, evil fuck.
"He notes in the end of his veto letter that there are 75,000 student athletes in Utah, only four of which are trans, and only one of which is female (the bill does not care about trans students competing in boys' sports). All this culture war fighting is over what is currently a single girl competing."
Coupla things wrong with this argument.
1. I do not accept your terms and definitions. Transgirls are not, and never will be, "female." Female is a biological sex trait that describes reproductive function. It's genetically determined and in humans, it doesn't change.
2. Transgirls are not girls. They are transgirls. They are biologically male, and present themselves as feminine in appearance. They still have all the genetic traits of male humans. That's something completely different from conventional girls, especially with regard to competitive athletics.
3. Even if it is "only one," at elite competitive levels, one unfairly advantaged competitor can cost other competitors team placements, titles, records, championships, etc, which can and does equate to stolen opportunity. Every athletic scholarship that goes to an unfairly advantaged transgirl, deprives a biologically female athlete an opportunity. In effect, a biological male stole that opportunity from a biological female that it was intended for.
There was an entire fucking movie about this in the 80s, but with scholarships for black students.
In short, fuck off, Shackford. You know this is fundamentally wrong.
Soul Man, 1986, starring C. Thomas Howell.
Classic
All this culture war fighting is over what is currently a single girl competing.
So we should ignore one person? What if that person is Jeffrey Dahmer? Just let him eat in peace?
No, he should be admitted to culinary school with a fill scholarship.
I'm trying hard to care about this.
Ah, who am I kidding? I don't care about this.
These school children shouldn’t be encouraged to cheat by their supposed role models.
Chromosomes. That's all I can say. Chromosomes.
Sounds like these governors might also be trans, i.e. no balls.
The bills as written would get shut down in court. One way to prevent lawsuits would be to simply create a trans division for all sports. Tell people you're a girl who has a penis? Fine, compete in the trans division with the others.
Trans division?
Considering that it’s make your own gender day, you would end up with plenty of divisions.
Trans people want to be the real thing. A division would feel like the ultimate attestation that they are not what they want to be.
The solution is to let them continue to wreck cisfemale sports. Because the cisfemales deserve it for being cis.
I am enjoying the show. In fact I hope that female sports will gradually become more and more dominated by biological males, to the point where the actual females are crowded out. The spineless display of defeat is already delicious. I hope there will be trans female athlete recruiting initiatives, if there arent any already.
"One way to prevent lawsuits would be to simply create a trans division for all sports."
It's called men's sports, which have literally zero rules about gender participation whatsoever.
But that'd be too hard. Thomas was a meh, at best, swimmer as a dude.
Confusing a few things here Scott. There are humans born with sexual organs of both sexes..often woman with internal testes and thus higher T levels. These folks are very rare but it does occur and compassion and well thought process to decide to allow them to compete in the sex where they have an advantage (again women with internal testicles).
Now for gender to "decide" they identify as the other sex..sorry no allowances..you have to compete in your gender..end of story. This ensure NO discrimination wokes.
My high school 800 meter time (and I was one of 20 in our area to run about 2 minutes) would get me a D1 womans scholarship. And in a good D1 program I could have cut a few seconds off and been a strong contender for the US olympic team and a medal hopeful. So an average HS boy 800 meter runner is almost as good as the top 10 woman..see my point?
Randy Macho Man took Strong Woman competition...love south park
The law included no similar ban on trans males who wished to compete with males or with females.
Because they can't
Lia Thomas was at around the 490 level when competing as a male. Competing against women, Thomas is number one, a star athlete. Against men it's 'Thomas who?' He doesn't even register.
Transmen are simply not in the same league.
They don't qualify. They're not fast enough or strong enough. They can't jump high enough or run long enough.
Because they are, under the hormone treatments and surgeries, women.
And the best women can't beat mediocre men athletically.
Good. Less government is always the better choice. No athlete is forced to compete. If women and girls of a biological sort don't think men of a biological sort should be in their competitions...just sit them out. It would only take a few weeks and they could stop the nonsensical situation once and for all.
Never beg government to apply force in your name. That's a key trait of the leftist paradigm of "Group Identity Politics".
Specifically, women and girls of a biological nature have ALL the power to end the leftist's push to nullify their existence by promoting men of a biological nature to compete in their sports.
It would only take a few weeks for this to end if no biological female would consent to participate in such politically motivated tactics of oppression.
We do allow (at the Federal level) the government to set standards of weights and measures. From that might spring a simple test, as suggested by 5.56 @ 2:19 (see above). Not a big fan of government, or "the king's English" for that matter, but words have meaning, and "man" and "woman" should not be difficult to figure out.
We have been through this before when the US Women's Soccer team was pissing and moaning about the men's team getting more money and the point was made that an all star junior high school boys soccer team would beat a soccer team composed of the best women soccer players in the US.
Bill Parcels said, '...you are your record...' According to Thompson's results and times, he's a man and has no business competing with women.
I don't see why this is an issue. Just take large sample of biological females involved in athletics (broken up by age) and plot them on a bell curve. If a trans female's (male to female) performance is off the charts then she is clearly displaying physical abilities incompatible with her gender identity and is therefore ineligible to compete. Easy.
I suspect most trans females will naturally place somewhere on the upper end of female performance, but as long as it's within the documented possibilities for females it shouldn't be a problem.
I suspect most trans females will naturally place somewhere on the upper end of female performance, but as long as it's within the documented possibilities for females it shouldn't be a problem.
Of course it's a problem. The actual females at the top risk losing to a guy. The actual females near the top don't get to go to the finals because they've been displaced by guys. (As happened with Thomas this time round - the girl in 17th place for 16 qualifying slots was mighty pissed off about it - understandably.) And so on down the various levels of competition. As well as Olympics and National Championships, and National College Championships, there's also competitions at State and local level, even down to who's the school champion in the Lower Poughkeepsie 14th Street High School competition. All the way down there are going to be actual girls who've put in a lot of effort who are going to miss out on winning, or coming second, or getting into the final, or getting to qualify for the competition because there are guys in there taking the places they would have got in a fair competition.
Secondly, you are forgetting that not all sports are like swimming. Some involve body to body contact, and having males participate in female contact sports greatly increases the risk of injury to the female participants.