Should the U.S. Be Sanctioning Russia?
Broad-based economic sanctions issue collective punishment on all Russians while doing little to deter their government's aggression toward Ukraine.

Western governments have responded to Russia's invasion of Ukraine with swift and severe sanctions targeting the country's financial institutions, state-owned businesses, wealthy individuals, and even President Vladimir Putin himself.
The hope is that the resulting economic pain will encourage the Russian public and elite to pressure Putin's government into dialing back its war against its neighbor. But an inherent feature of this strategy is harming ordinary Russians who aren't responsible for their dictatorial government's war and who have few options for influencing its behavior.
As the pain of sanctions on the Russian people and the Russian economy mounts, and Western leaders propose tougher measures still, it's worth asking whether these sanctions are effective or even justified.
On Thursday, the U.S. Treasury Department announced a number of "unprecedented and expansive" sanctions on Russia.
They include cutting off Russia's two largest banks, the majority government-owned Sberbank and VTB Bank, from processing payments through the U.S. financial system. U.S. companies are also largely being prohibited from lending to or buying shares in state-owned companies ranging from Russia's largest railroad operator to Rostelecom, the country's largest telecommunication company.
These broader sanctions are being coupled with asset freezes and travel bans on a number of wealthy Russian individuals, or "oligarchs," and their family members linked to Putin's government. The Biden administration followed this up with sanctions on Putin personally today.
The U.S. Commerce Department is also banning the export of "semiconductors, computers, telecommunications, information security equipment, lasers, and sensors", reports CBS. Congressional Democrats have proposed to go even further by jacking up tariffs on all Russian imports.
President Joe Biden has been quick to tout the impact of the sanctions his administration has imposed thus far.
"We've already seen the impact of our actions on the Russian currency—the ruble—which early today hit its weakest level ever," the president said on Twitter yesterday. "The Russian stock market plunged today. And the Russian government's borrowing rate spiked above 15 percent."
We've already seen the impact of our actions on the Russian currency — the ruble — which early today hit its weakest level ever.
The Russian stock market plunged today.
And the Russian government's borrowing rate spiked above 15 percent.
— President Biden (@POTUS) February 24, 2022
Bloomberg reports that Russia's stock market fell some 30 percent as of yesterday, costing the country's billionaires a collective $39 billion.
Thus far, it doesn't seem like that economic pain will weaken the Russian government's willingness to continue its war.
The sanctions are "unquestionably a cost. The question is that cost enough, and is it transmissible onto the desk of Vladimir Putin," says Justin Logan, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute. Putin's singular focus on Ukraine and the rapidly changing military situation inside the country make it doubtful these sanctions will sway him, says Logan.
"On areas where states feel vital national security concerns, they tend not to work," he tells Reason, adding that their primary utility thus far is for Western governments to signal their displeasure with the Russian invasion.
In the absence of a serious chance that they'll change Russia's behavior, sanctions are more akin to "virtue signaling," says Will Ruger, president of the American Institute for Economic Research and former President Donald Trump's nominee for ambassador to Afghanistan.
"There's some element that turns into an attempt at collective punishment. Liberals, left or right, should be very skeptical of the idea of collective punishment," says Ruger. "You end up targeting those who aren't necessarily in favor of that country's policies. In fact, they could be opposed to that country's policies."
Indeed, sizable antiwar protests have erupted in several Russian cities, where thousands have risked arrest to express their opposition to their government's invasion of Ukraine.
A recent article in Jacobin by two Russian activists cites public opinion surveys showing that some 40 percent of Russians do not support their country's recognition of two separatist regions in Eastern Ukraine. Putin's recognition of Donetsk and Luhansk precipitated his invasion of the country.
"While some signs of 'rallying around the flag' are inevitable, it is remarkable that despite complete control over major media sources and a dramatic outpouring of propagandistic demagoguery on TV, the Kremlin is unable to foment enthusiasm for war," they write.
These antiwar protestors and ambivalent everyday Russian citizens won't be spared the pain brought by international sanctions on their country.
Targeting sanctions at wealthy, government-linked individuals avoid that problem, says Eli Clifton, a senior advisor at the Quincy Institute.
"It's happening to individuals who are closer to the decision-making principals, if they're not decision-making principals themselves, in Russia," he says.
Individually targeted sanctions at Russian oligarchs are also easier to enforce, he argues, given that many of the assets Western governments could go after are things like yachts and real estate holdings that are difficult or impossible to move or hide.
In contrast, broad-based sanctions are notoriously difficult to enforce, says Clifton. He notes that governments like China and India aren't nearly as enthusiastic about punishing Russia for invading Ukraine as the U.S. and its allies are. China, in fact, is weakening its controls on Russian imports in response to Western sanctions.
While individually targeted sanctions avoid the problems of collective punishment, it's still doubtful that making life more difficult for Russian oligarchs will produce changes in Russian policy vis-à-vis Ukraine, says Ruger. He adds that the U.S. ultimately has few good options for getting Russia to back off its unjust invasion of Ukraine, a country that also matters little for American security or prosperity.
"It doesn't mean you can't be the well-wisher. It doesn't mean you can't use the bully pulpit to say this is wrong," he says. "But doing things that could help Ukrainians in this fight could have serious downside risks for the United States."
Rent Free is a weekly newsletter from Christian Britschgi on urbanism and the fight for less regulation, more housing, more property rights, and more freedom in America's cities.
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So does war.
Look, war sucks. Leaders declare war, people suffer. It's really easy to want to kill Germans when Hitler invades Poland, France, Czechoslovakia, Russia, etc; but those Germans you kill had very little to do with Hitler issuing the orders. It's great that concentration camps disgust you so much that you want to jail their guards 70 years after the fact, but what would you have all these soldiers and guards do -- refuse to follow orders and be executed?
Collective punishment is supposedly a war crime. Yet war itself is a collective punishment. Don't you think there's something just a little bit bizarre about rules for war in the first place, let alone punishing entire societies for the crimes of their leaders declaring war, as if war itself is ok, but not reacting to it?
General Sherman had it right, if he really did say it: "War is hell."
The current citizens of a country are morally and legally responsible for its leadership, period.
Those ordinary Germans had a lot to do with Hitler, just like ordinary Americans have a lot to do with the senile imbecile in the White House.
Spot on. Plenty of Russians are outfight supporting him.
our Elites protect their Elites while geeking us all up with hate for each other. the wrong war is being waged.
I hate neither Russians nor Ukrainians.
I hate our "elites".
In WWII, the Americans provided the money, the Brits provided the time and the Russians provided the blood. Trust me, a dip in their stock market isn't going to faze Putin or the Russian people.
Diane, you assume the Russian people are with Putin on this, and forget that countries military abilities are dependent to some extent on their economic strength. This is not a war of survival for Russia, like WWII was.
Why wouldn’t the Russian people be with Putin on this?
Because your average Ivan on the street don't care about gaining Ukraine, but he does care that his banks and jobs are collapsing due to Putin's personal war of conquest. The Russians were tired of living under nuclear threat for half a century, and now, when things were otherwise pretty calm, Putin's actions are now risking Armageddon to conquer land that hasn't been part of their country for 30 years.
I can see many Russians getting mighty perturbed. Putin wouldn't be the first Czar overthrown due to mishandling a war (That is how both Catherine and Lenin rose to power, after all).
Now is not the time to question Commander in Chief Joe Biden. Every patriotic American must support the President — whether he imposes sanctions, or launches a fullscale war.
#IfYoureNotWithBidenYoureWithPutin
Inslee to keep state COVID mask requirements as federal officials loosen guidance
What relaxing of covid restrictions?
Governors know more science than the CDC.
They do.
They know it was never about science or health.
Let’s go Brandon!
Sanction everyone even remotely connected to Putin and th Oligarchs. Families, relatives, friends. As said above, “The current citizens of a country are morally and legally responsible for its leadership, period”.
Let’s go Brandon!
Sanction everyone even remotely connected to Putin and th Oligarchs. Families, relatives, friends. As said above, “The current citizens of a country are morally and legally responsible for its leadership, period”.
Let’s go Brand@@!
Short term, sanctions and boycotts probably won't deter Russia's action in Ukraine. But, over time, if Russia is made a pariah state and most of the world refuses to deal with them, then the economic consequences will be dire for Russia and someone there will figure out a way to dispose of Putin.
Yes, at about 10 minutes after never.
The problem is the sanctions aren't widespread and won't be long term. Any sanction Western Europe imposes on Russia will be rescinded before the year is out.
And what will you personally sacrifice and risk to accomplish your goals?
I will boycott Russian goods. Those who want to fight, can see if Congress will repeal the laws that keep another "Abraham Lincoln Brigade" from being raised in America.
China and India declined to condemn Russia at the last UN Council hearing. Russia has the two most populous countries in the world to sell to. They will likely be fine.
Sanctions just tend to unify a country behind its leader. And Putin is already quite popular.
And the Way can’t afford sanctions. Europe needs Russian energy.
Sanctions against Soviet Union "united" people so much behind their commie leaders, they would start sucking American and European dicks for a pair of jeans by 1989.
The only issue with sanctions against Russia: the right time to start them was in 2008 or at the very latest, 2014, but we all remember who were Presidents at the time.
Sanctions against Russian businesses and oligarchs aren't going to hurt the average Russian because they have no investment in businesses and aren't oligarchs. They're just cannon fodder for the apparatchiks and oligarchs.
Aren't going to hurt? Rouble already crashed 40%, that means every Russian now has a 40% salary decrease in less than a week. Sanctions against government financial institutions absolutely harm everybody in the country.
Semi-serious question: what if nations in conflict deliberately targeted heads of state? How hard is it to kill leaders, especially if collateral damage is "acceptable"?
Why should we propagate this elitist gentlemen's agreement of ignoring maniacal heads of state while letting the peasantry fight and die?
No head of state is going to after another head of state.
Wouldn’t look good at the club.
what if nations in conflict deliberately targeted heads of state?
It happens all the time. Enemy leadership is a highly coveted target.
How hard is it to kill leaders, especially if collateral damage is "acceptable"?
Somewhat hard. You not only need to have the weapons to take the leader out, you need to know where the guy will be at a given time and be able to target that location in a timely manner. Even for the US in a nominally friendly country targeting a less sophisticated adversary, its not just a matter of flipping a switch.
This was the straw that broke the Global World Order's back- when Trump took out Suleimani.
They decided to be ruthless and blatant after that.
Note: Trump was a necessary target for their revenge, but only because he was somewhat in the way.
They're taking their wrath out on us, regular people.
That is theory behind drone strikes, and Reason does not like those either. There is no clean way to strike at a foreign leadership without the potential for collateral damage either with violence or with economic punishments.
Ukraine can’t do it. And we aren’t launching an invasion of Russia.
Russia is not the "human wave" attack nation of the USSR. They don't have the 60,000 tanks of the cold war anymore either. Their modernisation has been limited mostly to a few show units (for example they have only 3 operational 5th-gen fighters) because the money hasn't been there.
Every single tank/helicopter/apc/fighter destroyed by the Ukrainians badly hurts them as a military power (for example they only have a little over 100 KA-52 attack helicopters and have lost at least 5 so far).
Damaging their ability to rebuild that power by throttling their economy is in fact the smartest thing we in the west can do.
I'm sure China will be willing to manufacture and/or sell some of their 5th gen fighters for a good deal on wheat/iron/palladium seeing as nobody else is buying because of the sanctions. There are alot of nations that want to get away from a dollar reserve currency and they have more resources and manufacturing capability than the USA has. The primary problem Russia has is a declining population, but China doesn't have that problem. Yes, semiconductor manufacturing tech is a temporary barrier but, but they have all the resources and motivation as well as the know-how to overcome that barrier.
China has population issues and debt issues all of it's own. Sure there are a lot of Chinese, but the population curve is giving them large numbers of elderly at a time when their economy is not set up to support that sort of need. Likewise their economy has vast amounts tied up in practically worthless real estate and in state owned enterprises that bleed money.
China's population issues are the opposite of Russia's...Russia has resources China needs and China has workers which China does not. The USA has a population issue to and is declining....every industrialized nation does. You forget China is still a communist country, the debt you're referring to is privatized and China doesn't need to inflate its GDP if the US dollar collapses because its no longer the reserve currency.
I meant China has workers that Russia does not. Without the petrodollar these countries problems pale in comparison with the USA's. We trade pieces worthless pieces of paper to obtain the majority of our goods. China and Russia have been hording while the USA has been printing money and talking about draining its stockpiles of reserve oil to relieve high gas prices. Russia's debt to GDP ratio is 20% while USA's is 133%...I think Russia will survive a 40% drop in the Ruble can the USA survive a similar drop in value to all other countries. Granted that won't happen until the dollar ceases to be the world reserve currency but that day is closer today than it was on Monday.
China has one of the fastest aging population in the world. They percentage of working age people has been decreasing dramatically and they already import thousands of workers from North Korea, which end up working in near slave conditions. This is North Korea's main economic driver. China's population is so aging so quickly that it is projected to start declining by 2030. This is further exacerbated by their ridiculously low retirement age, 54. Also, there is little immigration to China, because of Chinese xenophobia and very few people want to move to a totalitarian state.
Man, Biden does it again.
“We’ve already seen the impact of our sanctions on their currency - the ruble - which today hit its lowest level ever”
Our sanctions haven’t had time to have impact yet, whatever impact they’ll eventually have. The simple fact of Russia’s invasion tanked their markets, including the ruble. High risk means low prices, and there is a metric shit ton of risk as to Russia and all of its financial instruments right now.
How the fuck did this guy get 80 million votes?
He ran against Trump Desig.
Ran against idiot Trump who promptly lost the senate in Georgia.
It isn't America's actions that had the immediate impact. It was really the Swiss that did it. They cut off all Russian banks from their electronic transfer systems. If I understand this correctly, all Russian checking is now reduced to 1980s level and banks are unable to operate. This led to repeated runs on the banks.
All the other countries's sanctions will take time to be felt. The Swiss were the ones who pulled the rug out from under them.
There are so many problems that lead to this point this discussion is an absolute waste of time.
https://twitter.com/AdamKinzinger/status/1497354030904975364?t=t99XBrA96yCB_Hbrs1NE6g&s=19
1) The fate of #Ukraine is being decided tonight, but also the fate of the west. Declare a #NoFlyZone over Ukraine at the invitation of their sovereign govt. Disrupt Russias air ops to give the heroic Ukrainians a fair fight. It’s now, or later.
This, by the way, would equal full on war between the world's two nuclear powers.
Dead Americans, for no benefit whatsoever to the American people.
Use drones to take out his tanks.
That's still direct warfare.
Libertarians for world War 3 is really becoming a thing, huh?
Well Adam, climb in your F-15 and get to it then.
He should be the first motherfucker to get drafted when WWIII starts after we shoot down a Russian plane.
The problem with sanctions its less effective on each country you do it to. Each one will sympathize with the next and opens up options to trade with. Sanctions don't work against the elite period...Kim Jong-un is living proof of that; he's driving around in a Rolls Royce. Less you forget Putin is a remnant of the Cold War, caving on ideology for lack of western goods isn't going to happen. Sanctions might work for some countries but Russia won't be one of them, hasn't worked on North Korea, Cuba or Iran. Russia existed before all of these and is resource rich and fairly self-sufficient. China has already lifted restrictions on Russian wheat imports due to rising prices, Europe will suffer the brunt due to higher wheat and energy imports and the USA will also trying to fill their demands. This will reduce trade with China requiring more US dollar debt to obtain Chinese manufactured goods and China won't need or want dollar debt since their primary trade partner will now be Russia and Russia won't want dollars because of the sanctions. If these sanctions last for a prolonged period trying to break Russia's back, I'll know I'll be glad I invested in Gold Mining Stocks.
The enablers of Putin in that system aren't so much the oligarchs at this point, who have been pretty thoroughly neutered, as the members of the State Duma. They rubber-stamp Putin's actions; they provide his veneer of respectability; they're the ones privileged by the rigged elections; their cooperation is still needed in Russia's set-up; they are the components of the regime perhaps the most unpopular with the Russian public and the most identified with corruption. It seems to me the sanctions should be much more clearly targeted on them.
Sanctions aimed loosely at Russian business or directly at Putin and allied oligarchs are going to be of limited effect unless they really can shut down the flow of money and that's difficult if he is, as they say in New York, mobbed up. This isn't like apartheid South Africa, where you had a government that craved international respectability and a commodity economy dealing with collapsed prices for their exports; this is someone who holds the west in contempt and wants to play the ham in charge of a commodity economy enjoying high prices. Apartheid SA could not handle sanctions in the cheap-commodity 1980s; Neo-imperial Russia can muddle through on $100-a-barrel oil and looting whatever it can from Ukraine as long as elements of the regime allow it to.
My question is whether sanctioning the individuals in Putin's inner circle is counterproductive. When we freeze access to their wealth in the west, we make it so all of their wealth depends on keeping Putin in power. Putin is far more likely to fall in a coup than a revolution, and in order to get a coup, you'll need the participation of the people in Putin's inner circle. If all their wealth depends on keeping Putin power because their assets are frozen in the west, they're far less likely to support a coup. If they can retire to a beach in Florida, they're more likely to not hitch their wagon to Putin.
Read this Ken. This is what we need to do.
https://www.salon.com/2022/02/26/limited-sanctions-wont-stop-putin-in-ukraine-its-time-to-step-up-the-pressure-on/
Uhm, see what similar sanctions as this resulted in when FDR imposed them against Japan in 1941. Russia already put it's nuclear forces on full alert for the sanctions we already imposed. This story is what you get when you don't study history. Given your lose understanding of history, it's no surprise you think it's a good idea.
Rational people might consider whether what comes after Putin is more or less stable.
Rational Americans and other normal people in the west might consider whether or not they should care more, and do something about, the growing and nearing completion totalitarianism we're being subjected to.
Doesn't compute Ken. We are helping make their wealth dependent on Putin going, not staying.
Britschgi...Let's start with the big question you posed: Should the US be sanctioning Russia? The answer is yes, both from a war-fighting and a moral perspective.
To me, Ukraine is a conflict between emerging superpower alliances; the communists of Russia and China versus the US and its allies. Ukraine is first up, and I guarantee it will not be the last. Taiwan's invasion is coming soon. This is a new Cold War with incandescent edges; this conflict will also last for decades. The US will get involved in Taiwan, unlike Ukraine....and faces the real possibility of defeat. As a country, we should think about that and get our act together.
America needs to awaken from it's slumber.
One objective in war is to weaken your opponent, especially economically. The screws will be tightened on Russia. We currently have tariffs on China. I am not exactly going out of my way to buy Chinese shit right now (aside from N-95 masks to protect against a virus they released in a lab fuckup), so I have little issue extending and increasing those tariffs, and walling them off from our capital markets. Those CCP fuckers are truly a menace, so I definitely want them out of our financial capital markets. Just look at Evergrande, a perfect microcosm of the CCP version of commerce. The economic things you have to do incrementally, so as not to fuck up the economy too badly.
From a moral perspective, we are allies by treaty (ratified by the US Senate) to NATO. Ukraine is right on their doorstep. Our NATO treaty allies have asked for our help in the form of reinforcements. Guess what? You deliver, is what you do. When your allies by treaty ask for help, we are legally bound here. We have to honor what the treaty says we will do. Put more simply; friends don't leave friends hanging. That is the moral aspect, to me.
I just hope (and literally pray) that POTUS Biden and his team do not fuck this up. They don't need to get it perfect, just don't make it worse by your actions. So far, it looks like POTUS Biden and his team are getting the big stuff right. Ukraine is not our fight, but we back up our friends.
If you want to twist Russian Bear tail? The borders of Poland look pretty porous to me, so if we wanted to discreetly 'help' Ukrainian partisans we can send weaponry overland. I would do 'cash and carry' only. Also, I'd insist that Europeans run that kind of operation. Why? Ukraine is Europe's backyard. The way I see it: We've got your back Europe, but you (Europe) clean the mess in your backyard.
I don't know the status of relations with Moldova, but they're right on the border of Ukraine. They will have to make a decision quickly on which alliance they wish to join. I'd be crapping my pants right now if I were Moldovan and did not want to join the Russia/China alliance.
Thank God we're agreeing here! We should do all of what this guy suggests as well:
https://www.salon.com/2022/02/26/limited-sanctions-wont-stop-putin-in-ukraine-its-time-to-step-up-the-pressure-on/
Sullum, welcome to Reason. 🙂
Your probably right, the USA needs to do something to show their disproval as we are partially to how things unraveled...not to say this could have been avoidable in the long run. Biden was flatout dismissive of refusing to let Ukraine into Nato. To Putin this is his Cuban missile crisis. Nato was created to counter the USSR and Warsaw Pact...those no longer exist, and Russia is not the Soviet Union so Nato poses a direct threat that Russia has no answer to. However, sanctions will not work..in fact I'd argue they work against the USA as there are many countries (especially BRIC) that would like to see the petrodollar be the sole reserve currency. This ultimately weakens the United States. Russia will probably want control directly or indirectly of the lands east of the Dneiper if they get their say...if they were smart this would give them most of the Russian ethnic population and get rid of the westernized west...making eastern Ukraine akin to East Germany. But that's just speculation...
“Should the US be sanctioning Russia? The answer is yes, both from a war-fighting and a moral perspective.”
I see neither a strategic or a moral case for the US to get involved in either Ukraine or Taiwan.
Reasoned and logical disagreement is good, NOYB2. It forces each of us to sharpen and hone our thoughts/case. I appreciate the fact that you push me to clearly articulate my POV, and support it. I am also mindful you bring a different perspective (as an immigrant) that I respect also (my wife is an immigrant).
Were we not engaged in an existential ideological battle with the communists, I would be more inclined toward non-interventionalism. But the die is now cast. Either our ideology will prevail (e.g. individual liberty & freedom), or theirs will (e.g. collectivism). There can be no middle ground between those worldviews. I think you'd agree with that last.
"Were we not engaged in an existential ideological battle with the communists"
Last I checked, Russia is no longer run by the Communist party. They have no collectivist ideology that is uniquely different than the gaggle of elites running around trying to run our economy.
Don't get me wrong, Putin is an asshole, evil tyrant. But he is not fronting an ideology that is ideologically incompatible with the US Democracy. Soviet Communism was explicitly anti-democratic. Its founding documents called for the elimination of democracies across the world, and global communist rule.
That isn't Putin.
If you want to fight off the globalist technocrats looking to manage society, you are going to need to talk to the WEF these days.
"From a moral perspective, we are allies by treaty (ratified by the US Senate) to NATO. Ukraine is right on their doorstep."
None of our treaties carry a moral imperative. That is why they are contracts. Just as you are not morally required to maintain a loan if it isn't in your interests. You are merely morally required to obey the contractual requirements. In the case of each of these treaties, there is an out clause that carries some or another warning period.
Are we seeing a burgeoning Sino-Russo alliance? Perhaps. But it is noteworthy that the two countries have long disputed border wars between them. To the extent that they are cooperating now is largely due to the fact that the West seems a bigger threat to them.
Do you want to know what *is* immoral? Giving false hope to our Treaty-mates that we can protect them from the assholes living next door.
As I noted before, the US is not now in the condition to fight a war. China and Russia have spent the last 20 years building militaries whose sole purpose is to defeat the US Military. Meanwhile, we have spent the last 20 years developing forces whose sole purpose was to shovel billions of dollars of contracts into swing districts and the pockets of military contractors under the guise of suppressing cave dwellers in toyota tacomas. And we failed at that.
Worldwide there are some 700 F35s (distributed in US and allies) and 150 operational F22s (run by the US because no one else will touch them). While they are widely considered to be the most advanced fighters ever created, this has never been realistically tested. I have significant doubts that these maintenance heavy, logistically demanding jets can realistically compete long term in the front yards of Russia and China. And this supposes that we can maintain the carrier fleets in theater despite the Navy proving itself severely compromised numerous times over the past 10 years.
If you believe that there is an existential threat from the Commies, then I highly recommend doing everything in your power to convince allies in those regions to assume that American Support will be as dependable as American Social Security in 20 years.
None of our treaties carry a moral imperative. That is why they are contracts.
You uphold the contract terms. This is the moral choice.
If the contract terms say "With a year's warning any party may leave the Treaty", then it is morally neutral to give a year's warning that you are leaving the treaty. Those are the rules of NATO. There is no further moral imperative than that.
Every treaty has an out. And it is in the US, and Europe/Japan/Korea/etc's best interests to announce the end of those treaties.
Since the US has not moved to abrogate the treaties, then the morally correct choice is to uphold the current contract terms. That aside, friends don't leave friends hanging.
"Since the US has not moved to abrogate the treaties, then the morally correct choice is to uphold the current contract terms."
This is begging the question. You are saying that it is immoral to break a treaty because we have not broken the treaty yet. Everything I have said is that we should break the treaties- in the contractually acceptable way. And there is nothing immoral in that. Indeed, it is in the best interests of Japan/Korea/Europe/et al.
Even more so, these are not friends. These are countries. Trying to anthropomorphize countries is wrong. Your buddy down the street doesn't have the power to lock people in his basement because they did something he objects to. Countries do. Their moral code is different, and that includes the responsibility to not outsource their defense to countries on the other side of the world.
And even if they were friends, there is a major moral harm in insisting to your friends that you will protect them when your own public, and your own military will be unwilling or unable to do so. And there is a high likelihood of both for the US wrt China and Russia.
Russia: If you block cooperation with us, who will save the ISS from an uncontrolled deorbit and fall into the United States & Europe
Elon Musk: SpaceX
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1497370602075734021?s=21
Musk says, “you’re welcome” to democrats.
Loss of the ISS isn't the problem.
A 500 ton object falling on an American city at 10,000 mph is the problem.
Can we aim it at the Kremlin?
A 500 ton object falling on Washington DC at 10,000 mph could be a solution rather than a problem.
Have economic sanctions ever worked? Did they deter Mussolini? Did they bring down Castro? Did they bring down Saddam Hussein? The only example of economic sanctions or boycotts working that I can think of is apartheid South Africa, and even that case took years and had an impact only because, for whites, South Africa was something of a republic in which citizens had a voice in the government. Against dictatorships, Sanctions have the perverse effect of allowing the dictator to blame foreign powers For the Peoples’ suffering.
Let’s face it, economic sanctions are the mask mandates of international relations. A lot of show with no real affect.
It can definitely work against a place like Russia. But even it doesn't change Russian behavior (it will) why should the civilized world have anything to do with the terrorist state of Russia? They ban and restrict all of our stuff all while they take advantage of our careless indifference and weakness.
You’re terminally naive if you think sanctions “definitely” work.
China isn’t going to come on board with them, for starters. China, in fact, is going to invade Taiwan. Are you going to sanction them too?
The US and Europe are heavily in debt, demographically basket cases, and massively dependent on imports. The idea that we can impose meaningful sanctions is laughable. But by all means, let us try, and let us see Russia, China, and other countries develop their own payment systems and infrastructure outside our control.
And it's never worked ever in the past. But typical progressive answer, just because it didn't work before, it must work the next time. If we really have to face off with Russia, we need to use our strengths. Increase domestic oil and gas production. Increase gas and oil exports. Continue to fund energy research, the past year has seen some massive advancements in nuclear fusion, this would be a great place to invest in a Manhattan style project.
In the meantime, work with our allies to convince them to increase their military spending and capabilities. We should also talk with Germany to reverse their denuclearization of their energy sector, so that it reduces Europe's dependency on Russian petroleum and gas. I've seen some indications that Europe is opened to this, as Germany just increased it's military spending to 2% of GDP, this is the first increase in decades and almost double last year's spending. This is also a place that Eastern and Central Europe, which already exports large amounts of energy to western Europe, especially Germany, has the possibility to increase their economies. They could build new age reactors, especially reactors that use thorium (can't be weaponized and produces far less waste) and burner reactors. And if you are concerned about climate change, this would make huge steps in reducing GHG emissions.
Additionally, the US should streamline the approval process for these reactors, and small, modular reactors, to decrease our dependency on fossil fuels. Especially as we move to electric vehicles. Investment in battery technology is also needed to complete this transition. Currently, electric vehicles aren't suitable for industrial vehicles, such as long haul semis, agricultural and construction vehicles, aircraft. We need better batteries before these can be transitioned.
Also, we need to open up our own rare earth materials deposits in the west and Canada, to lesson our reliance on China, which is set to become Russia's closest ally. Rare Earth's are needed for electric vehicles, solar and other industrial applications. China currently produces 84% of the world's supply of these elements. We have large deposits in the US and Canada but currently they aren't economical viable mainly because of the environmental lobby. This is also the main stumbling block for nuclear, even Thorium reactors which are safer and cleaner than our current reactors. Additionally, many of the rare earth deposits in the US and Canada are in areas that suffer economic depression. For example, one of the largest deposits in central Idaho, on the Nez Perce Reservation. Others are in the Ozarks and Appalachia. Greenland also has large deposits, as does Brazil. There may also be untapped resources in Central America. There are some technical hurdles that need to be crossed before some of these sites would be viable, but currently there is little investment in this because current laws and regulations discourage investments.
The US and the west needs to realize that to combat our geopolitical foes, or at least hostile nations, we need to invest in our own resources and technology. We can't depend on them for our own economic success and stability. This would increase our economy, and weaken theirs. It would also make our bargaining position that much stronger. Many of these things can also be accomplished by private investment if we just loosened some of our job killing regulations. You can still protect the environment and workers without deincentivizing investment in our own economic security.
Sanctions aren't effective...once you sanction enough countries your just giving them a reason to ally and trade among themselves. The USA lost their positioning in the Middle East...you make a big enough pariah out of them Russia is resonably secure on all but the European front. I think one of the reasons things worked out better in South Africa is that they had very close ties both economically and culturally with the UK and at the time there was very little alternatives for trade and goods. Russia won't have those problems as long as China will trade with them and China will benefit by getting away from the dollar and trading actual goods for goods...people are making the assumption that the dollar is a desirable item, no its a medium of exchange its the assets that they can purchase that are valuable. If Russia has assets China wants and vice versa the dollar is just a piece of paper.
Limited sanctions won't stop Putin in Ukraine: It's time to step up the pressure on Russia
"But Biden and NATO and the rest of the civilized shouldn't stop there. We should lock Russia down within its borders. Biden and the West must immediately shut down all landings by Russian aircraft, commercial passenger flights, cargo and otherwise. Russia has seized Ukraine's airports. Close airports everywhere in the West to flights out of Russia. The FAA announced a "no fly" zone over Ukraine and Belarus and the airspace 160 miles into Russia. Why limit our flights over their territory? Why not limit their flights over ours? Why not turn the world into a no-fly zone for all Russian aircraft? Shut down the ability of Russian aircraft to take off by refusing them places to land.
Ban visas to every Russian citizen, not just the billionaires "close to Putin," as the saying goes. (We tried that. It doesn't work.) Declare Russia a terrorist state and issue a "travel ban" to and from Russia. If what Putin's army is doing to Ukraine right this minute isn't terror, what is it? I've already seen footage of Ukrainian office buildings and apartments with their fronts blown off, streets filled with rubble, bridges damaged by airstrikes. What is the difference between buildings brought down by a "terrorist bomb" or an airplane flown by terrorists and what's being done at this very minute by the Russian military?
Biden and Western nations must not allow movement of people, goods, services, money or anything else from Russia to the rest of the world. They must order the seizure of the assets of Russians in the West — all of their assets: apartments, condos, beachfront properties, office buildings, bank offices. Seize all their money and other paper investments. This must not only apply to "oligarchs." There are plenty of Russians who own property in New York, Miami, London, Paris, Monaco and elsewhere. Take what they own outside of Russia from them — not just the billionaires.
https://www.salon.com/2022/02/26/limited-sanctions-wont-stop-putin-in-ukraine-its-time-to-step-up-the-pressure-on/
And salon gets fussy.
You wouldn't know. Salon has always featured this guy's opinions. Try reading more and thinking more.
I’d try really hard to shove as many unfounded insults in as you can, I hear that democrats won’t lose in the midterms.
How do you plan on enforcing that one...might work for the USA and Europe but there's no way you can stop Russia from trading with China, Afghanistan, Iran, India, Asia, Brazil.
They need Biden to stop looking impotent without actually being potent.
Why do any of that? These are two shithole countries on the other side of the globe. Went are they any of our concern?
Sanctions didn't work against soviets, saddam hussein, Kim, Gaddafi and neither against Jinping. I think we should stop being policeman of the world and compromise with putin. Thats the best solution right now. The biggest threat to us is Jinping and not putin! Now let me enjoy the dark chocolate.
I'm pretty sure that's the reason Putin is doing what he is doing...he knows the United States is in a spot and the best solution is to compromise. The USA is weak strategically with its withdrawel from Iraq and Afghanistan, the USA economy is on the verge of stagflation with shortages everywhere, Putin benefits from good relationships with China, Syria, Iran. Less you forget that Russia has defensive pacts with many of the former Soviet states...they may not be at the level of NATO but a direct confrontation could escalate to a global war ala WWI.
One-third of Americans approve of Biden's handling of Russia: poll
A Washington Post-ABC News poll found that 33 percent of Americans say they approve of the president's handling of the Russia-Ukraine situation, while 47 percent say they disapprove and 20 percent say they have no opinion.
Close to half of Americans polled - 48 percent - also said that they believed America's leadership in the world had gotten weaker under Biden.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/595886-just-one-third-of-americans-approve-of-bidens-handling-of-russia?amp
As usual, Reason misses the point.
(1) Sanctions don’t work in toppling regimes
(2) The distinction between Putin and the Russian people is spurious; Putin is in power because he is popular.
(3) The West can’t impose meaningful sanctions because the West is energy dependent on Russia.
Doesn't compute Ken. We are helping make their wealth dependent on Putin going, not staying.
Biden approves $350 million in military aid for Ukraine http://reut.rs/3sl12Lf
Totals $1 billion. Of course Biden made Zelensky promise him dirt on Ron DeSantis.
You can't shame a fascist movement.
If you could, Antifa and BLM would be dead by now. Of shame. Or irony. Or both.
It would make more sense to release all the restrictions on fossil fuel extraction, production, and transport. Boost domestic production, build that pipeline - heck, build two more. Get the price of oil and natural gas to drop. Sell a bunch to Europe.
That would hurt the Russian regime more than these sanctions.
Al Gore, Sept 30, 2001:
Resurfacing before a partisan crowd, former Vice President Al Gore declared tonight that ''George W. Bush is my commander in chief'' and implored Democrats and Republicans alike to offer Mr. Bush their unwavering support.
Members of the Iowa Democratic Party, gathered here for their annual Jefferson-Jackson Day Dinner, leapt to their feet when Mr. Gore said the message he had heard from Iowans as he toured the state in the last two days was that people must unite.
''That's what I've been hearing in Iowa,'' Mr. Gore said in a speech that was restrained, and often conversational. ''We are united behind our president, George W. Bush, behind the effort to seek justice, not revenge, to make sure this will never, ever happen again. And to make sure we have the strongest unity in America that we have ever had.
''That's what I'm hearing in Iowa. I hear it in every community I have visited. There are no divisions in this country where our response to the war on terrorism is concerned.''
https://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/30/us/bush-is-my-commander-gore-declares-in-call-for-unity.html
Compare with the traitor Trump who praises Putin and always makes the bullshit claim that he should be president but was robbed. Anyone who supports this asshole or what he says has something wrong with them.
Moo.
Wtf. Britches. This is the most inane argument.
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No it doesn't. These are not our resources. We are not beholden to liberate Mongolia or Tibet or North Korea or Ukraine. I feel real bad for these people, but the US Government was created to secure and defend our rights, not the rights of people on the other side of the globe.
And Putin isn't even a communist in name. There is no communist party ostensibly running Russia any more. The farcical Soviet regime fell 30 years ago. To the extent that the US had a place resisting that regime's stated intent to make the entire world communist, we finished that and what remains is a shadow of the Soviets whose ambitions are entirely regional.
Again, Putin is evil. His war is unjust. That doesn't mean the US has the right to intervene, nor does it mean it is in our interests.
If you are so interested in resisting Putin's empire, buy a ticket to Poland and cross the border. I am sure there are plenty of people happy to give you an AK-47.