There Is Little Evidence That Mask Mandates Had an Important Impact During the Omicron Surge
Case trends in states with mandates were very similar to case trends in states without them.

As of yesterday, The New York Times reports, every state that required people to wear face masks in public places and/or in schools during this winter's COVID-19 surge has decided to lift those mandates, with the exception of Hawaii. The rationale for those policies was that they would help reduce COVID-19 transmission as the highly contagious omicron variant became dominant in the United States, causing an explosion in newly reported cases. Explaining the justification for lifting mask requirements, governors and public health agencies generally have cited the precipitous decline in daily new cases since mid-January. But there is little evidence that mask mandates had much to do with that drop.
Nationwide, according to the New York Times database, the seven-day average of daily new cases rose sharply from mid-December to January 17 and has fallen just as sharply since then, which is consistent with the experience in other countries after omicron emerged. The same basic pattern was seen in nearly every state. Overall, there is no obvious difference between states with mask mandates and states without them.
Ashish Jha, dean of Brown University's School of Public Health, notes that the graph for California, which required masks in indoor public settings beginning on December 15, is "strikingly similar" to the graph for Florida, which had no mask mandates. He adds that the two states "had nearly identical infection rates."
That second observation requires a caveat, since testing rates affect the number of cases that are recorded. California tested a larger share of its population at the peak of its omicron surge than Florida did, and Florida's positivity rate was higher, which suggests that Florida missed a larger share of infections than California. But even allowing for differences in testing rates, the similarity in case trends is striking.
"At first blush," Jha says, it "looks like their different COVID strategies did not end up mattering much." But despite an official infection rate that was virtually the same as California's, he adds, "Florida had 33% more deaths per capita than California" during the omicron surge.
If Florida's case numbers understate the true number of infections more than California's do, that could partially explain the difference in COVID-19 deaths per capita. So could age demographics: The median age of Florida's population is 42.5, compared to 37 in California. Jha thinks vaccination rates are another important factor: While "only 59% of eligible Florida seniors have gotten boosted," he notes, the rate for California is 70 percent.
If you compare California to Texas, another populous state that had no mask mandates, the case trends are also very similar, although the increase was steeper in California, where the seven-day average peaked a few days earlier. The graph for New York, which also had a statewide mask mandate, looks very much like the graph for California, but with an earlier peak.
"Masks have been the most visible part of America's pandemic response, but one of the least consequential," science journalist Faye Flam writes in a Bloomberg Opinion essay. "The states with mask mandates haven't fared significantly better than the 35 states that didn't impose them during the omicron wave. Rhode Island, where I live, has had a mask mandate since mid-December; nonetheless, we saw our January surge rise far higher than any other state. There's little evidence that mask mandates are the primary reason the pandemic waves eventually fall—though much of the outrage over lifting mandates is based on that assumption. Many experts acknowledge that the rise and fall of waves is a bit of a mystery."
Laboratory studies indicate that masks, especially N95 respirators, can help reduce virus transmission. But as Flam notes, "the benefits of universal masking have been difficult to quantify" in the real world, where cloth models predominate and masks may not be clean, well-fitted, or worn properly.
The strongest real-world evidence in favor of general masking comes from a randomized trial in Bangladesh, which found that the use of surgical masks reduced symptomatic infections by 11 percent. That's not nothing, but it's a pretty modest effect, and it was achieved with surgical masks worn by adults in conditions that encouraged proper and consistent use. The same study found that cloth masks did not have a statistically significant effect.
The Bangladesh study, in other words, does not demonstrate the effectiveness of the cloth masks that adults tend to pull out of their pockets when they enter businesses, let alone the masks that children as young as 2 are forced to wear in schools and day care centers. If you've seen pictures of those kids, you know they are not necessarily using masks as intended.
Given the situation during the omicron surge, there are additional reasons to doubt that mask mandates, even with perfect compliance, had much of an impact. While mandates required shoppers to don masks before entering supermarkets, for example, the risk of transmission in such settings is low, given the amount of time customers usually spend in them, the size of the air space, and typically wide distances between patrons. Conditions in bars and restaurants are more conducive to virus transmission, since customers spend more time there in closer proximity to each other, often while talking. But since people were allowed to remove their masks while eating and drinking, requiring them to cover their faces upon entry was more a symbolic gesture than a serious safeguard.
Beyond the question of how effective masking is in practice, there is the question of what impact mask mandates have on behavior. Even if masking works, that does not necessarily mean mandates do.
An Annals of Epidemiology study published last May found that mask mandates in the United States were associated with lower transmission rates from June through September 2020. "The probability of becoming a rapid riser county was 43% lower among counties that had statewide mask mandates at reopening," the researchers reported. But the study did not take into account other policies or voluntary safeguards that may have differed between jurisdictions with and without mask mandates. Nor did it look at actual mask wearing, as opposed to legal requirements.
Based on data from various countries and U.S. states from May to September 2020, a preprint study published last June found that general mask wearing was associated with a reduction in virus transmission. But the researchers found no clear relationship between mask mandates and mask use. "We do not find evidence that mandating mask-wearing reduces transmission," the authors reported. "Our results suggest that mask-wearing is strongly affected by factors other than mandates."
An August 2021 systematic review of 21 observational studies found that all of them "reported SARS-CoV-2 benefits" from mask mandates "in terms of reductions in either the incidence, hospitalization, or mortality, or a combination of these outcomes." But "few studies assessed compliance to mask wearing policies or controlled for the possible influence of other preventive measures such as hand hygiene and physical distancing."
Like the debate about lockdowns, the debate about mask mandates will continue. Because there are so many variables to account for, it is very difficult to isolate the impact of any given policy. But it seems clear that anyone who takes it for granted that mask mandates have played a crucial role in controlling the spread of COVID-19 is making a series of assumptions that are not justified by the evidence.
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Not true. It had a tremendous impact on virtue signalers letting the government know they were good subjects.
It made a lot of people FEEL safer, and that's what really matters
There Is Little Evidence That Mask Mandates Had an Important Impact During the Omicron Surge...or anytime else.
This. People in this very comment thread, including myself, have been waving that flag since March 2020. The masks do nothing. They never did anything. They are and always have been something between a magic talisman and a political team jersey. The Science™ has rejected their value against respiratory infections for fifty years and only did a hard 180 in March 2020 based purely on edicts by political apparatchiks and backed up with "we're the experts, trust us" but no actual... ya know, science.
Struth. I cannot comprehend the levels of ignorance, stupidity, and in-group bias needed to believe that their placebo wasn't a nocebo, speaking in terms of the resulting damage to society.
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Thinking takes effort. It involves risk of being ostracised from social groups.
As you point out....they dont have to go any farther than their phone to find facts and research papers.
The only real media info since 2009 and the Black Plague has been these comment sections.
.They, except for brain damaged morons like Tony and the Socks, are a massive melting pot and crossroads for information.
It was for a time, next to improbable to have online news without comments.
Since the radical Left started their censorshit ( deliberate mis spelling)
during Trump and now full blown communist censorshit over Covid, its gone downhill. Many sites have shut comments doen bc by gum, they undermine the lefts propaganda.
"They are and always have been something between a magic talisman and a political team jersey."
Never underestimate how critically important these things are for many people, and for the self-proclaimed elite who manipulate them. Human intellect has not really improved since the Stone Age.
What they're signaling sure isn't virtue.
-jcr
It was a practice run for how far the fascists can go using "public health" as an excuse.
You mean they might eventually use it to...gasp...require people to temporarily wear a mask in their interactions?
Truly their trial run was worth it!
Too stupid to understand the implications.
Too stupid to argue them?
Yes, you are.
It's you've that presented no argument.
Try it, maybe you'll feel good!
That is interesting strategy. Don't make an argument yourself, instead just make derisive comments and then when pointed out you didn't make any argument, project onto others. I doubt it will win any debates, but it's creative. It definitely doesn't require much intelligence though, derision rarely does.
She’s already known here as a disgraced idiot fool and a Marxist shill. Nothing to do there but start digging.
Jackhammers are also virtue signaling devices.
And woodchippers.
It's not even creative. This is done every day and is the downside to learning everything you know from cable TV opinion programs including how to state or defend an argument, or even what constitutes an argument. People begin to think that being sarcastic, a smart-ass, or throwing a rock equals a fact-based argument.
This is why people like Rachel Maddow and Joy Reid will never invite a guest who does more than offer a slightly varied alternative of the same opinion.
Hmm, as in the tactic of nearly all of the left-leaning and progressive sorts, and a good portion of the far right types -the latter don't seem to congregate here. Libertarianism must be too left-leaning for them... That said, yes, 'they' never have an argument, or counter the point made. They make smug assertions, provide faulty citations, make snide comments, and, of course, attribute to others the things of which they are guilty.
As superior people should, right?
You haven't made an argument.
Yep, I did.
"You mean they might eventually use it to...gasp...require people to temporarily wear a mask in their interactions?
Truly their trial run was worth it!"
Your turn, Jesse.
Except i already showed you for a fool below where you admitted you were a fool. Lol. It wasn't just masks shrike.
God damn man.
A sarcastic comment is not an argument. You just stated something that has already occurred and added a tone of sarcasm.
Truly your truth has a new meaning now! (See how that is done?)
The sophist did immediately pop up when the bell was rung for statist collectivists using the endemic as their latest excuse for whittling away at individual rights. So, there's that.
Hmm... chemical injections. Camps in Australia. Loss of jobs. Kicked off transplant lists. Not allowed to travel across borders.
Yeap. Just masks.
Shrike, you really are dumb.
1. We've long required 'chemical injections.' I bet you've had quite a few!
2. Dingoes in Australia! Non-responsive.
3. This is actually something. Was their an overreaction with a net loss in the ledger because of jobs? That's actually worth discussing.
4. You never cared about transplant lists before.
5. Well, yeah, pandemics will involve responses restricting border crossings. I'd bet you're all for border patrols usually, amirite?
No, we haven't. There have always been exemptions.
2. So we can do whatever we want to foreigners.
3. Youre avoiding it for some reason. That actually happened. See job loss numbers.
4. Cite?
5. So youre full of shit and it isnt just masking.
Glad you can admit you were full of shit shrike.
You explicitly ignored 1 (interesting) and otherwise ignored the rest.
Psst! First sentence….
Just goes to show she doesn't actually read the replies, just moves on to her own next canned post
He. It is shrike. The pedophile.
I explicitly ignored 1? I literally said you were wrong dumbass.
Oof. That was embarrassing.
I would say that the government delegating enforcement by fining and shutting down businesses that didn't force their customers/employees to wear a mask was a pretty good trick that will be useful for any enforcing any future unpopular policy. Usually, it had been more up to the government to enforce its own laws, but if they only have to force the enforcers, that makes compliance so much easier.
The way that government handled "misinformation" including helpfully pointing it out to social media companies while simultaneously hauling the CEOs of those same companies before Congressional committees and threaten to change the laws in a manner that makes their business unworkable was also a pretty good workaround the 1st amendment. One that paid off nicely in how quickly social media companies voluntarily decided to prohibit any discussion of election integrity. Definitely seems likely that won't be the last discussion considered to be too dangerous for consenting adults to engage in.
I was hoping you would come in and post something incredibly stupid. Was not disappointed.
Anyone think jeff, sarc, or brandy will finally admit this now that reason did?
Jesus, did you not read this article, not understand it, or not care? This is not a checkmate moment for ya.
Too stupid to understand the article.
No, too committed to the ideology, and to gaslighting.
The checkmate moment is 2 years of real world data and 100 years if prior studies. Idiot.
https://mises.org/wire/why-there-no-correlation-between-masks-lockdowns-and-covid-suppression
This analysis can also be seen with mask data dumbass. There is zero correlation. They even tried masks during the Spanish flu and guess what... found it didn't help.
But keep trusting The Science and Nuevo Lysenkoism like a good statist. Lol.
No, no, what's the 'checkmate' moment in this article? You know, the one you pointed to?
Holy shit. You really are retarded.
Hopeless
Can't point to it, can ya OANites?
Pssst. In the link dumbass.
Your confusion may be due to the fact that you believe the burden of proof lies somewhere else than the Libertarians on this site.
Do you think that we need science conclusively proving that masks don't work?
Or, should the burden be on government to prove they do work in order to impose restrictions on the entire population?
You’ll double down on your evil shit no matter how absurd it is. Marxist garbage like you never give up the con.
This idea that mask wearing is obviously some New World Order Black Helicopter plot is...incredible.
In the past we've all been to hospitals or seen movies of them and when the surgeon comes in the employees are all wearing...masks.
Germ theory goes with the idea that some germs are airborne. Then we get a novel virus that seems to be respiratory, and experts suggest...masks. Governments then follow said experts with some mandates.
This hardly seems the stuff of a totalitarian grab.
Too stupid to understand what surgical masks don’t do.
I'd like to point out the warning panel on the back of the N-95 box that states that they do not stop the spread of disease.
Wow! didn't even need an article. It's as if I magically used my reasoning capabilities.
And shrike still doesn't understand how viruses are different from bacteria. Lol.
God damn man. Read a book at some point.
A book by Alex Jones? No thank you.
Start with a Suess book. You can't comprehend anything anyways. So may as well start there.
The Seuss book will talk about the differences in bacteria and viruses relevant to mask wearing?
You literally don't even know where you start your 'arguments,' do you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJD2MrcTT4M
Do you seriously not understand the size different between viruses and bacterium?
Doesn’t know, doesn’t care. It’s all about the narrative and advancing democrat authoritarianism.
Well said.
That's why I'm glad the ACLU is taking the pro-mask-mandate position.
#MyBodyMyChoice
#(Sometimes)
Not wearing a mask during a public health crisis is not a civil liberty.
Your definition of civil liberty seems to be whatever government lets you do.
No, it just doesn't include your 'oh, I have to wear something on my face for a little while, omg it's scratchy!' kind of thing.
Now do yellow stars
Lol, this guy can't even read downthread!
Yellow stars weren't the first step, they weren't even close to the first step. In fact many of the first steps included "public health measures".
That's right. Because the Nazis rationalized racial hatred with "public health measures", therefore, every genuine "public health measure" is really Nazism in disguise. Brilliant.
If you haven't noticed, the left is using public health measures to declare a state of emergency in Canada, to freeze bank accounts, to silence conservatives, and threatening to take their kids away. And the American Left is applauding them. That is pretty fucking close to Nazism, dipshit. The fact that you don't realize it, is pretty much a sign of you lack of critical thinking skills and actual knowledge of history.
See, this is what I mean. Everyone has seen what you posted earlier today. Everyone has seen you polishing the knob of every government authority for two years, praising collectivism over individual rights. Everyone has seen you bash any right of center protest against government over reach while you defend to the death any and all left wing protests, no matter their stated goals. And everyone knows that is not even close to being a principled libertarian. Because, as you accuse others earlier today of doing, you support individual rights, as long as it's the right kind of people, but disparage it when the wrong kind of people fight for the rights. You even implied today that if you come from a group that supposedly has had historical advantage then you shouldn't be allowed to fight for your individual rights. Not sure what group that would be, because all groups have been oppressed at some point in the history. And most all groups you don't even have to go that far back. I mean, I am white, blond hair blue eyes, Lutheran, but my great Grandma was half Saami, and born in Finnmark, a fact she had to hide from other Scandinavian immigrants when she came to this country. Read what happened to the Saami people in Scandinavia.
My point is, you don't apply libertarian principles even close to uniformly. In fact, quite often you don't apply libertarian principles at all.
the left is using public health measures to declare a state of emergency in Canada, to freeze bank accounts, to silence conservatives, and threatening to take their kids away.
That's not because of COVID, that's because there is this giant fucking protest in Ottawa that is paralyzing the city.
And if you think that what is happening in Ottawa right now is "Nazism" and therefore bad, what you are really saying is that protestors should be entitled *not just* to protest and air their grievances - which is absolutely justified - but to go way beyond that, to protest indefinitely, occupy public streets, prevent the inhabitants of that city from conducting their lives, and that the government should do absolutely nothing about it lest it turn into the Canadian Third Reich.
There you go again, playing the lefts game of demonizing the protestors to forgive the blatantly authoritarian actions of a government that refused even to meet with the protestors but declared them illegal before the protests even arrived in Ottawa. Yep, that is the actions of a principled libertarian, totes.
You defended BLM all summer of 2020, calling any police action against their excesses jackbooted thugs reminiscent of the SS. Now, that you don't support the protestors, you are supporting actions far worse than what was taken against the BLM protests, where actual violence and attempted murders and murder and rape and theft occurred. You don't have a fucking principle. And, you will deny you ever did that. But, we all remember what you posted.
Did you or did you not support CHAZ? Which did the exact same thing in Seattle? Why yes you did. See, no fucking principles.
Everyone has seen what you posted earlier today. Everyone has seen you polishing the knob of every government authority for two years, praising collectivism over individual rights.
Then you haven't been paying attention. I have not been praising government authority. What I have mainly done, is ridicule and push back against this puerile, juvenile rendition of libertarianism that is displayed here on a daily basis, which is "toddler libertarianism". Such as this:
https://medium.com/the-radical-center/toddler-libertarianism-its-my-freedom-not-yours-460039e3d09e
That is the type of behavior I see displayed here on a daily basis. Where "liberty" means "I can do what I want and screw the rest of you". That is not an enlightened position of liberty. That is the temper-tantrum of a 5-year-old.
Under libertarianism, social problems do not go away, they instead get privatized. Libertarianism cannot work in any practical level if the individual people in that society are all "toddler libertarians". It will require VOLUNTARY collective action on the part of those individuals to step in to those areas that were the province of the government instead.
Because, as you accuse others earlier today of doing, you support individual rights, as long as it's the right kind of people, but disparage it when the wrong kind of people fight for the rights.
That is not even true. I was MOCKING the right-wing conception of liberty, which is, liberty is only owed to those who are worthy of it. That is, those who conform to mainstream views are entitled to liberty, while those who don't - not so much. I am the one who thinks that all people should have their property rights respected, unlike Team Blue which wants to force every business to require masks, and unlike Team Red which wants to force every business not to require masks. Every individual deserves all of the blessings of liberty regardless of whether they fit in the mainstream of society or not.
It's telling you only ever mock the right but excuse the left. You tied fighting for liberty to some perceived historical benefit. Sorry, that is what you did. You can't gaslight out of that.
It is self evident. You aren't a fucking libertarian or a radical individual you are collectivist and a leftist. And yes you are fucking promoting authoritarian behavior because you disagree with their cause. Because it is completely different from how you treated worse behavior by leftist protests in 2020. You can't explain that away and you can't gaslight it away.
You say you were just mocking right wing libertarians. So why even bring race, even tangently into the fucking discussion? Oh, I know, to imply white people shouldn't fight for their individual rights.
a government that refused even to meet with the protestors but declared them illegal before the protests even arrived in Ottawa.
Umm, that is not a true statement.
calling any police action against their excesses jackbooted thugs reminiscent of the SS.
Like what you and what all of Team Red is doing *RIGHT NOW* with respect to the Ottawa protest?
If you think I was hyperventilating and emoting over the police response to BLM protests, what do you think you are doing now? Acting calmly and rationally? Or are you doing the exact same thing - declaring any action against your preferred protestors "NAZI SS TACTICS" in a fit of emotional rage?
But, we all remember what you posted.
Okay then, Mr. Smartass, go ahead and post all of those quotes where I supposedly defended everything that BLM did, including the violent parts. Go ahead. You can't because they don't exist.
You tied fighting for liberty to some perceived historical benefit. Sorry, that is what you did. You can't gaslight out of that.
No, I didn't. Post the quote where you think I did that.
So why even bring race, even tangently into the fucking discussion? Oh, I know, to imply white people shouldn't fight for their individual rights.
This is absurd. I said no such thing. All people of all races are entitled to liberty. I think you must be drunk.
And no you aren't the one who believes in individual rights, you are the one praising the elites crushing the workers, because you don't agree with their protest, but I keep coming back to you calling police using tear gas, or arresting rioters as jack boosted thugs in 2020. And you forgiving the CHAZ protestors who stopped people from accessing their businesses and homes, and used violence to do so. Unlike the truckers in Ottawa. You aren't defending anyone's rights. You are picking and choosing who you support, and if they don't appeal to you, you have no problem with the government using force to shut them up. I haven't seen you yet condemn Trudeau for his actions. And your citation. LOL. It is some dude's opinion. Gee, you showed me. So, basically you just admitted you can't think for yourself, just parrot other people's talking points. Ain't I ashamed. LOL.
It's telling you only ever mock the right but excuse the left.
It is true that around here I continually mock the right and bash the right and dump on the right, because I hate what the right has become. They used to be the party of ideas, back when Non-Crazy Newt Gingrich was running the show. Now they have devolved into a party of self-absorbed flag-wrapping entitled victimhood-seeking paranoid cranks with a cult of personality. Putting Team Red in charge right now would be like giving power to the love child of Cyto and Nardz. A horrifying prospect.
And if by "excusing the left" you mean "acknowledging that they are human beings and not caricatures of cartoon villains" then guilty as charged. I disagree with their insane policies but they aren't horrible people. They are not NEARLY as deranged as the paranoid idiots running Team Red.
"is based only on a respect for liberty for those who are already considered worthy of it."
Seems like even if you didn't mention race that this easily implies that straight Christian, white males are the wrong type of people do fight for the individual rights in your opinion. And this was at the end of a long screed that demonized people who disagrees with you, even an iota, and castigated them for how you perceive them. That isn't a libertarian principle. It is pure tribalism. You belong to the wrong tribe, because you don't believe we should teach about transgenderism to kindergartners. If you believe this, than you can't be a true libertarian. Next you'll be defending MAPs, and calling anyone who has a problem with them toddler libertarians as well.
but I keep coming back to you calling police using tear gas, or arresting rioters as jack boosted thugs in 2020.
Umm no. As I recall, what I specifically objected to was the practice of unnamed officers wearing all black grabbing suspects off the street and dumping them in an unmarked van to then be dropped off at the courthouse. And if you don't think that is Gestapo-like, then I don't know what to say. I never objected to ALL police response, just the type that was lifted straight out of 1936. By the way, are the police in Ottawa doing this?
But hey, I will admit that my memory isn't what it used to be. If you can find a quote where I called ALL police response to BLM protests "jack-booted Nazis" then I'd like to see it. So go ahead Big Boy, produce your evidence if you have it.
And you forgiving the CHAZ protestors who stopped people from accessing their businesses and homes,
Where did I "forgive" the CHAZ protestors? Let's see it. I never did. No, occupying a city block and preventing people from going about their lives is not permissible protest, whether it is happening in Seattle or if it is happening in Ottawa. Would you agree with that?
Have fun sleeping off your night of drinking.
So, you excuse their excesses because you like them better. Thanks for proving my point. You think the right is full of crazy people and therefore you don't really support their rights to protest.
I can show exactly how Trudeau's actions are authoritarian and exactly how the Nazis treated their enemies. Anyone familiar with history can. It isn't that hard.
People have posted your previous comments multiple time, you just gaslight whenever they do. Daring someone to find something from two years ago, to spend the time going through 10,000s of posts is a form of gaslighting in itself, because byoh know no one will ever do that. The fact that everyone else but you remembers this (and I suspect you do to, but don't want to admit it, because that would be admitting your hypocrisy) is just proof that we all are out to get you, I guess. Alex Jones? Is that you?
That is another tactic you and others love to do, when confronted with your own hypocrisy deny it happened and then attack the person who exposed it as drinking or doing drugs, implying that their mental capacity is somehow askewed. Sorry, it's self evident what you are doing. When confronted with your own hypocrisy, gaslight and attack the person who exposes you. Oh and don't forget that it is also extremely sanctimonious and elitist type behavior (which your toddler libertarianism attack is also a form of elitism, and a true Scotsman fallacy at that). They aren't true libertarians.. Only I am.... Anyone who says differently is drinking. I am going to try and be funny, hehehe. Simply puerile and jejune. Never change Jeffy, the shock of true self reflection will likely unhinge you. Just keep telling yourself that you are the only true libertarian here and everyone is picking on you. I know how important it is to your fragile ego.
Seems like even if you didn't mention race that this easily implies that straight Christian, white males are the wrong type of people do fight for the individual rights in your opinion.
No. What I was saying, is that IN MY OPINION, the right-wing conception of liberty is that those who conform the most to the assumed normative standard, are most worthy of liberty. That in the right-wing vision of liberty, straight white Christian males are first in line to the trough of liberty, and everyone else gets less and less. That is not at all my personal view of liberty. In my view everyone is entitled to the blessings of liberty, whether that person conforms to some normative standard or not. Straight white Christian males absolutely deserve liberty. They just don't deserve an extra dollop JUST BECAUSE they conform to a normative stereotype. If you disagree with my characterization of the right-wing conception of liberty, then too bad.
I'm sorry, but you are coming across as drunk right now. You are more unhinged than usual.
You are the one claiming I said all of these things so many years ago. So now it is "gaslighting" to demand that you provide proof of your own claims? Huh. Okay then. Totally not drunk.
And no, I don't claim to be the One True Libertarian. I present a vision of libertarian ideas that is different than most here, I freely admit that. Libertarians as a group are gonna 'do their libertarian thing', and there's nothing I can really do about that, except provide my ideas, which I do.
This has been fun but I have to go to bed now. You can have the last word before you sleep off your bender.
The best part of this ignorance from Jeff was him calling out officers not wearing name tags in Portland while defending cops on Ottawa doing the same thing.
Reminder. Jeff said cops were free to shoot people for trespassing on J6.
Jeff isn't a libertarian. He is an elitist centralized government advocate.
“Putting Team Red in charge right now would be like giving power to the love child of Cyto and Nardz. A horrifying prospect.
And if by "excusing the left" you mean "acknowledging that they are human beings and not caricatures of cartoon villains" then guilty as charged.”
Imagine typing these two things, in this order, and not realizing what a hypocrite you are. Amazing, really.
Also, imagine spending 4+ years calling Trump supporters cult members, then one day out of the blue deciding your reason for attacking people is that they are creating caricatures of their political enemies, and not have a bit of self reflection.
“That in the right-wing vision of liberty, straight white Christian males are first in line to the trough of liberty, and everyone else gets less and less.”
Imagine saying THIS, repeatedly, in the same thread that you are attacking people for creating caricatures of their political enemies!
'That's not because of COVID, that's because there is this giant fucking protest in Ottawa that is paralyzing the city.' Jeff, you need to start getting your news from different sources, and maybe tone down the hyperbolic language. Ottawa was/is not paralyzed. I don't recall you using this language when other protests or demonstrations blocked roads or highways. Might there be a sociopolitical aspect to how you view the protest?
'And if you don't think that is Gestapo-like, then I don't know what to say. I never objected to ALL police response, just the type that was lifted straight out of 1936. By the way, are the police in Ottawa doing this?' They're acting under the rubric of the Emergency Act, that Trudeau has yet to bring up for debate in Parliament. The Act the CCLU has stated is not justified. So, yes, this seems a bit similar to 1936. And, for such a radical individualist, you spend a lot of time defending government right to deprive individuals of their rights, using the tired canards that the media and politicians trot out each time their viewpoints are challenged.
No, it just doesn't include your 'oh, I have to wear something on my face for a little while, omg it's scratchy!' kind of thing.
I bet you have all kinds of nasty diseases that have nothing to do with masks.
Just the ones your mom gave me.
You say that like I'm not specifically asserting you would put diseased tissue on your face for no other reason than to make yourself feel superior.
looks like a shit post orgy
who left the Sock Drawer open?
DARN ‘em all!
Rimshot!
Well said again.
As an ACLU-supporting left-libertarian I want public schoolchildren to be forced to wear masks indefinitely. Even during outdoor sports.
#YoullForgetItsThereAfter5Minutes
Let us know when there's actually solid evidence that the masks make a big difference towards improving public health.
Did you read the OP?
Yes - where you implied that since surgeons who are exceptionally highly educated and trained members of society can benefit from wearing a mask that this means 5 year olds should as well.
As many others have pointed out there's a big difference between whether or not properly fitting, properly worn masks in a hospital are effective vs. mandating masks for the general public actually works.
Mask don't even work in the OR.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4480558/
The instances of 5 year olds conducting any sort of surgery that would require a mask to reduce chances of transmission via exhalation being nil... The instances of QA being ignorant, stupid and biased being beyond measure.
We havec5 y.o. Politicians.
We dont need 5 yo md's
Actually, it is. Because healthy people have no moral obligation to protect you from nature. Especially using something that doesn’t ACTUALLY stop the spread of a virus.
Jiggly puff doesn't understand the power of symbols of compliance.
"Wearing a little yellow start is hardly a New World Order Black Helicopter Plot. it's a piece of cloth for identification purposes. Get over it."
Lol, this guy is Peter from Office Space:
"You know, the Nazis had pieces of flair but they made the Jews wear them."
Funny, but sadly true.
This guy guy thinks Walter Sobchak was the hero of his film.
I’m absolutely done with this argument. Surgeons wear masks during surgery to prevent bacteria and droplets from entering an open fucking wound. Hospital acquired infections are a serious problem and common complication after surgery.
I’ve been in hospitals and have never encountered a masked staff. When the doc came in to talk to my mother about her kidney failure, he was not masked. None of the nurses were masked. Nobody - other than the surgical staff during an operation - routinely masks.
However, when there is a highly contagious disease, the patient is isolated and staff wear LOTS of protective gear, not just a surgical mask.
It’s a false equivalency that needs to die now.
Your changing the past. Only in the operating room did folks mask up. It was to stop ANYTHING from coming out of thier mouths into an open wound. Plus the benefits of not having human blood and guts being squeezed out into the hospital staffs mouth. Had NOTHING to do with not spreading a virus. U r but another human pawn of ignorance.
The Phucko Knows
Masks don't work. We're done with this.
"Laboratory studies indicate that masks, especially N95 respirators, can help reduce virus transmission. "
"An August 2021 systematic review of 21 observational studies found that all of them "reported SARS-CoV-2 benefits" from mask mandates "in terms of reductions in either the incidence, hospitalization, or mortality, or a combination of these outcomes."
"The strongest real-world evidence in favor of general masking comes from a randomized trial in Bangladesh, which found that the use of surgical masks reduced symptomatic infections by 11 percent. "
Etc.
So, wear one.
Don’t force me to.
If Lady Di wanted to say 'mask mandates don't work' I imagine he knows where those keys on the keyboard are. That's not what he said, nor what I criticized. But it's interesting how you pole jumped into it on a wrong basis. Something got ya worked up don't looke me?
Are you drinking?
I can actually achieve paragraphs, troll. What's up with you?
I can actually achieve paragraphs..
He said without a paragraph .
Or a fully functioning mind.
Even if we grant you that is true, then we simply extended the duration of the pandemic by wearing masks. The only reason to 'flatten the curve' is to ensure hospitals aren't overwhelmed. The hospitals weren't close to being overrun, except during the worst place (NYC) at the worst time (Spring 2020) doing literally the worst thing they could (throwing covid patients into nursing homes, effectively infecting all the at-risk at once).
Even if we grant you that is true,
Yeah, I don't grant him it's true. The one citation he gives:
"The strongest real-world evidence in favor of general masking comes from a randomized trial in Bangladesh, which found that the use of surgical masks reduced symptomatic infections by 11 percent. "
It actually showed an 11% reduction in rural Bangladesh. It was discovered that if you teach people to use masks as a part of general hygiene you get an 11% reduction in the spread of COVID. The more urban places where the program was conducted saw no such reduction and the paper itself says that the conclusion is contradictory to the prevention model, only slightly above noise, and confounded by the hygiene program.
We don't have to actually grant that it's true, only that EVEN IF WE DID QA would still be wrong to mandate it.
I literally gave three. Are you brain damaged?
You threw shit on the wall you didn't understand.
Now. Do you really not understand how bacteria and viruses are different sizes?
Wow, 11% reduction. Totally worth masking kids which have shown time and time again in study after study to be detrimental to the behavioral health and learning and mental health. God, you act as if there was no harm from masking everyone.
I have a new hobby.
In public, nodding and a slight smile to maskers.
Its a scream to see the conflict it causes when they realize they should be polite and reciprocate, but the damn mask wont allow it.
Psych 301..
Look them square in the eye and then mumble. When they inevitably get close enough to hear you, shout about how they're not social distancing.
Also, you are an idiot if you think that a government mandate of behavior is not an assault on civil liberty.
Sometimes it is necessary but not for a virus that has a 99.98% survival rate for people under 64 without pre-existing conditions.
Jiggly puff is drawing circles around xer data.
Google "Fauci Mask" and look how many pictures he's not wearing an N95 mask. Jiggly Puff also fails to understand that without a major RCT, we don't even know if KN95 masks work outside of a clinical setting with people who are hanging them on their doorknob.
New York Times vacuous airheads who use twitter as a major news source at least admit that they live under a regimen of "mask chaos".
Oh, when you lose the Washington Post and Bloomberg...
But Jiggly Puff feels and believes.
Again, in the original two weeks, my brain went into full 'BSL mode'. All the days when I got done in the lab, walked out of the building and didn't have to pay attention to what I had touched and when the last time it was decontaminated and whether it belonged in the BSL lab or not came flooding back. People were wiping down shopping carts and then handing cash, keys, and ID directly to the cashier/valet/bartender/delivery guy. Plexiglass barriers were being erected that essentially funneled the airflow from every customer across the till and onto the cashier who was well within a 6 foot radius from each and every customer. Masks were coming out of the same pockets that cash and keys were being stored in... all the times and all the people I knew, all trained personnel with advanced degrees, who'd been written up for having a BSL log book at their desk, putting BSL equipment in the general purpose autoclave, working in a fume hood without it turned on, came flooding back.
Rural Bangladesh. Small communities. Large families living in close proximity, lots of time spent out of the house. General hygiene possibly lower than optimal to prevent transmission. I don't see this as being the ideal location for a study on efficacy of masking.
And the authors, in the paper he cites, state pretty much the same thing.
The real main reason to "flatten the curve" was to extend all of the "emergency" totalitarian powers as long as possible.
Your party will lose big this November, almost certainly.
Aside from the fact you've no idea what my party is, what a cheap, stupid argumentum ad populum. I'd say it's an especially strange argument for a libertarian to make, but people like Brian aren't libertarians, they're pathetic Republicans hanging around libertarian boards like Reason.
More voters identify as republicans or leaning republican than democrat or leaning democrat.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/388781/political-party-preferences-shifted-greatly-during-2021.aspx
You're a democrat almost certainly.
Thinking you're an idiot doesn't make me a Democrat.
I actually worked for a Republican candidate for the past many years (Hogan of MD). I've said this plenty of times over the years over at Volokh.
Betting sites give Republicans 85% chance of taking the house and 77& chance of taking the senate.
https://www.predictit.org/markets/2/Congress
So a Democrat
No, your abject authoritarianism and being a piece of shit Nazi is what makes you a Democrat.
You're either Democratic or belong to some even farther left and more totalitarian party.
It's true that libertarian-leaning Republicans do hang out on the Reason board. There's no such thing as a libertarian-leaning Democrat. Maybe there was 20 years ago but no longer.
Poster OBL does a hilarious job pointing out how silly the idea of a libertarian-leaning Democrat is.
And ChemJeff does so, without being a parody.
If you think I'm a "libertarian-leaning Democrat" then you must think principled libertarianism is "Democrat".
You ain't a fucking principles libertarian. Don't fucking fool yourself. Should we go back to you stupid arguments you made earlier today about populism, and elitism? There wasn't a single fucking libertarian principle displayed in your posts today. But a whole fuck ton of collectivism and elitism.
If you are a principled libertarian, than Martin Luther was a Pope.
You’re not a principled libertarian though.
Jeff you are principled. You bever have been. You excused the shooting of an unarmed woman because she was trespassing.
You are right. You aren't a left leaning libertarian. You're a left leaning authoritarian shit.
Are not principled*
You are neither principled nor libertarian, you totalitarian leftist shill.
If 'principled' means waffling or making excuses, which it seems to in some sociopolitical in-groups, then, Jeff is very principled. Most of the folks who comment here who stick up for policies that severely degrade individual rights claim to be libertarian -again, it seems to be a sociopolitical in-group affectation.
Jiggly Puff is double-masked Lockdown Party.
We've paid a big price as a society to force people to wear masks.
You need more than showing a couple of studies showed masks help a little bit (and we'll ignore all the possible flaws in those studies and ignore studies that show masks don't help)
You need a strong consensus of scientifically valid studies which show a strong benefit to wearing masks.
I'll happily agree we payed a big price in closing things down.
But wearing masks? WTF?
But wearing masks? WTF?
The fact that you still think it's about wearing masks is a rather clear indicator of significant brain damage. Do you know who the current President is? Do you know what you had for breakfast yesterday morning?
You dumbass, this entire post is about wearing masks.
You're so triggered and broken you can't go two posts without hurling schoolyard insults.
I assume you're positing in the midst of a massive, literal diarrhea attack.
You'll make Sqrlsy hungry with that kind of talk.
Jiggly Puff doesn't care if the masks worked, Jiggly Puff was happy to know that xe was being protected by other people wearing their mask. Who cares if they 'worked', it was about feeling safe.
So, I'm going to chalk that up as a "No." to the "Do you know who the current President is?" question. You really ought to go see a neurologist or maybe a psychiatrist about that.
How many millions have been spent on masks dumbass? How much in decreased learning for kids? All for your own best estimate of 11% which would at best show up as a delay not lifetime immunity.
Youre an idiot shrike.
The wearing masks is a symbol. That we're all under the thumb of those in power and that we better get in line or they'll start shutting down businesses, churches, schools, parks again.
And the mask wearing is a test run for a whole ton of new "emergency" measures to fight climate change, social equity, etc.
And theeere we go. The trip to paranoia conspiracy land.
Says the guy who posted that the freedom convoy was one step away from the Jacobian Reign of Terror.
Wait, did he really say that?
Total conspiracy theory.
"You can lift your COVID restrictions when you meet our Diversity Inclusion and Equity metrics."
What an opportunity to change the planet!
Maybe you should concentrate on yourself, and your paranoid conspiracies. Paralyzed cities... Have you been in Ottawa? Do you know which streets are impacted?
Millions? Try billions.
Masks in schools have been linked to worse mental health, learning difficulties (especially for kids with learning disabilities), speech delays and reversion, behavioral issues, etc.
Mask wearing also has been linked to higher anxiety. Which may contribute to the increase in suicides, drug ODs and alcohol consumption over the past two years. But pretend masks are innocuous.
11 percent for masks not being used by almost anyone om the states the last 2 years.
Do you even try to understand your talking points?
Guess what else helps. Vitamin d, sunshine, and exercise. So fuck off. Your team locked that shit down.
Yes. Let's stop everyone from exercising, discourage people from going to their doctor for cancer checks, and F up everyone's mental health to slightly delay everyone being exposed to a virus which is not very dangerous unless you're elderly with multiple co-morbidities.
It's like you didn't bother to read the article. Now compare Texas, Florida and California. The mask mandates made almost no difference, on real world tests, with tens of millions of people.
Please.... Not a SINGLE one of these studies past a per review. There r hundreds of historical studies on wearing a mask. Not a single one done before 2020 had a single good thing to say about them. R books and history r full of mask being used for torture and public shaming. How is it u don't get the correlation between PRE 2020 science and the false science of the last two years? Your ignorance has to be a wanted place of joy.
The Phucko Knows
They didn't work 100 years ago, and the didn't work this time.
LOL now do the rest of the pandemic
So, is there a reason why we get a breakdown of age, vaccination rates, and death rates between California and Florida but not Texas or New York?
Is it because despite not having mask mandates and vaccination rates *lower than Florida's* it's age and death rates were closer to California's and that would confound the vaccine narrative? Or because New York's vaccination rate being higher than *both* California and Texas and Florida and their death rate being higher as well would confound the vaccine narrative?
I mean, you're not Ron Bailey, how are we even supposed to be sure you know what The Science! is actually trying to tell us?
Age. Lots of olders in FL
Disagree. Not that age is not a factor, but that it was selectively covered in the data in favor of the 'mask (mandates) and only mask (mandates) don't work' conclusion. FL is older, less vaccinated, and less masked than NY and NY has the higher death rate but, somehow, the only logical conclusion is that *only* the mask (mandates) don't work. TX is approximately as young as NY, less masked, less vaxxed and has a lower death rate but, somehow, the *only* logical conclusion is that only the mask (mandates) don't work.
GASP ! A non biased study??
Oh the horror!
O/T
Quote of the Day:
“It is deeply disappointing that after spending the past nine years defending and upholding CNN’s highest standards of journalistic integrity, I would be treated this way as I leave,” Ms. Gollust said.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/allison-gollust-resigned-from-cnn-after-warnermedia-determined-her-remarks-on-zucker-relationship-were-misleading-11645219933?
There are poker cheats in Las Vegas with more integrity than CNN's journalistic standards.
And the prostitutes...
This is on par with walking across pavement striping as far as high bars to clear.
I like the masks shes wearing.
Twins. Lots of breathing room
Yet the minute a woman goes topless in public, or a gay guy wears chaps on a pride float, conservatards go cry to Jesus.
Chaps and bare titties don't stop the virus, either.
You have to literally disbelieve in Newtonian physics to believe that masks are totally useless in stopping airborne virus spread.
Or he looked at actual data and realized the help is essentially zero over time.
You know, he isnt an idiot.
The studies show that mask mandates aren't working nearly as good as people like you claim. The fact that you're deflecting with "chaps and bare titties" is very telling. Knock it off.
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! - Isaiah 5:20-21
So the CNN Infotainment Babe was spreading medical misinformation, as was the CDC when they wrote:
Fit tested... Sure Beardsly McHipster... sure.
So why should healthcare workers wear masks if they don't work?
Why do surgeons wear them?
Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36).
Jesus H Christ. You can bring a Tony to words, but you can't make it read.
Just in case you didn't read any of it, the N95 mask (which for the record I do believe works against COVID) would be worn if one were trying to actually slow or stop the spread of Viral particles. Again, in use by medical personnel in a clinical setting, trained in their use, and probably disposed of constantly-- with wearers trained not to fiddle or touch them and operating in generally sterilized environs. But if you shoving your KN95 mask into your Man Bag when you sit at the restaurant, Tony, then... yeah, I think even you're smart enough to do that math.
probably disposed of constantly
Our system toyed around with UV cleaning and reuse during the height of the 2020 crisis and related N95 bubble. We stopped doing that as soon as we could.
A million Americans are dead of a communicable disease. Your big problem in life is the fucking hygiene measure.
So what if it's imperfect. It's not hurting anyone either.
You need to get out more.
But it is hurting people, especially kids. People communicate alot with their faces. People who are hard of hearing or deaf need to be able to read lips. Kids, especially young kids learn to communicate by watching adults faces and lips. It has been linked to a variety of bad outcomes for kids, including increased anxiety, behavioral issues, behavioral and speech regressions, language problems, etc.
Nobody ever promised you that pandemics would come with no difficulties.
Some kids willingly wear masks even when they aren't required. Kids are thinking agents too and can care about their own health and that of other people.
"Kids are thinking agents too and can care about their own health and that of other people."
Kids will even adopt killing of out-groups and wearing head-scarfs and demonizing normal sexuality as good things if you teach those from a very young age. In fact, if you are skeptical of the good religions do, be it Christianity or Islam, those are things that can be programmed into a childs brain from a very young age as well. They have zero trouble adopting authoritarian mask mandates as if they were good things, because they will do anything to survive around adults.
So you got no point there. Your point is in fact based on the premise that the decisions coming out of a childs mind can be seen as if they came from an adult brain, and therefore the moral judgement behind a child wearing a mask at "free" will means that masks and the mandates are fine. You act as if children were just another kind of adults. I guess pedophiles see things that way. But that would be the latest shocking dimension of tonyhood.
But then again, we're just talking about a bare minimum of a public health measure.
If everything's oppression and pedophilia, we risk losing some nuance.
The autistic sociopath known as Tony doesn't know anything about the value of human communication through facial expressions. In fact, he doesn't know anything about the value of human communication.
But don't worry soldiermedic, I've made this point repeatedly in the past, to no avail. Communication is really not the right way to deal with leftist rejects.
A million Americans are dead of a communicable disease. Your big problem in life is the fucking hygiene measure.
Because the hygiene measure was useless.
You need to get out more.
This from the Branch Covidian that wanted things locked down permanently.
The facts are that none of the mitigation procedures foisted on the Public had any effect. Masks, social distancing..what a laugh, lock downs....economically destructive, and remote learning...another joke. Then there's the clot shots. The first step to world depopulation.
Thanks Dr. Faustus for all the pain and real suffering brought to America. Oh and drop dead.
Why is the left filled with high school dropouts. Youre as dumb as shrike Tony.
Those masks are designed for RESPIRATORY DROPLETS to be caught before contaminating an open surgery, or fit sealed and worn for NO MORE THAN 15 MINUTES in the case of respiratory complications in the pt.
Covid is an AEROSOL BORNE VIRUS. No cloth, paper or KN95 is rated for that, as thr particulates are less than half the size of the holes in a KN95.
In simpler terms, you don't stop the hotdog with a damn hallway.
Your comparing Apples to Oranges. Come on dude... U r not that stupid.
The Phucko Knows
You'd have to literally disbelieve real, actual science to believe that masks have any effect on airborne virus spread.
Assless chaps are just gross. I know you're proud to be gay and all, but I don't need to see how well you've been wiping.
You're going to be awfully disappointed once you fuck someone for the first time. I guess you could do the hole-in-sheet method.
I'm sure you could teach me.
It's not rocket science buddy.
Which is a good thing for you, because you don't even understand elementary science.
The majority of voters have a very unfavorable opinion of CRT
https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/uagnfc262c/econTabReport.pdf
Let me guess, you think the sum total of "elementary science" is "boys have a penis, girls have a vagina."
I watch Ben Shapiro too.
60% of voters have little or no trust in the federal government with international issues.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/5392/trust-government.aspx
That is pretty basic fucking science there. Besides my MS in animal science, a biology discipline focused on domestic livestock, and a degree in nursing, I would stack my science knowledge besides yours any day, fairly confident that I far surpass yours.
That helps to explain how ignorant u r. Ben Shapiro?? Really?
The Phucko Knows
But it's not science you need to understand to get the point, it's language, in which you have no formal training.
Sex is what use to refer to phenomena related to our species' sexual dimorphism. Chromosomes, tits, all that biological stuff.
Gender is a grammatical construct that applies to many things. It is distinguished from other grammatical classes especially in that it is arbitrarily applied, at least partly. In French and Spanish, for example, all objects have genders, and there's no rhyme or reason to it.
Among the many things that various languages assign genders to are the human sexes (though not all cultures do it the same). This is one application that is less arbitrary in that gender tends to correlate to the sexes. A female gendered person uses the pronoun "she" rather than "he." That is all this is: grammar. Not biology.
The confusion probably stems from the fact that English for the most part mercifully restricts its use of the gender construct to this application, though there are a few specific exceptions, such as the tradition of assigning the female gender to ships, which, as you might have noticed, rarely have tits.
What you are referring to is grammatical gender, not gender. Rebranding language to your convenience will not help you outside of leftist circles. As someone who speaks one of the above mentioned languages and then another one that has grammatical gender, the non-points you are making here appear especially pussified to me.
"A female gendered person uses the pronoun "she" rather than "he." That is all this is: grammar. Not biology."
That is, again, grammatical gender, not gender. Different terms.
"In French and Spanish, for example, all objects have genders, and there's no rhyme or reason to it."
In fact, there is a rich body of reason and rhyme to that which has a lot to do with archetypal and mythological thinking and the way the ancient Greek and Romans saw certain phaenomena within their framework of ideas. These are derived, originally, from biological realities about perceived differences in how genders/sexes behave differently. Nature tends to be female for a reason. Things that radiate, fertilize, penetrate are often male.
Exceptions do occur, but trends exist, it is far from "no rhyme or reason". You have no access to said trends as it is obvious that you are monolingual and are trying to lecture what you think of as uninformed English speakers.
That's Tony's default mode of argument.
If you simply assume everyone is uninformed, pretending to be superior is totes easier.
So there's a good reason that a blouse is masculine but a shirt is feminine?
You want government to force trans people to do things against their will because.... mythological frameworks? Or whatever?
Gender is a grammatical construct, unlike sex. But you don't have to get the point to let people be free anyway.
I've never understood the term "Assless Chaps".
I mean, by definition, chaps are assless. They're leggings, meant to protect the lower legs when riding a horse.
It seems repetitively redundant to me to add assless in there.
Note: OP is muted so I don't know what you were responding to. I just wanted to join in.
Agreed - as a former leather worker experienced with fabricating chaps, chinks and other leggings, the "assless" thing is funny.
Chaps with an ass in them are called "pants".
So, now we are going with deflection and whataboutism?
It's Tony, so, yes.
I one should have a problem with assess chaps or bare titties.
I know right? Remember when Scout Willis went topless around New York City and everyone everywhere shamed her with their oppressive hyperreligious cries of "So what?!?" How dare they not find the part in their Bible that says you're supposed to care about topless women! Oppressive hyperreligious bigots!
Nobody cares, you fragile victim. Stop living in the past.
"Evidence? We don't need no stinking evidence."
In the side effects of stifling trade, they were very effective indeed.
“ Laboratory studies indicate that masks, especially N95 respirators, can help reduce virus transmission. But as Flam notes, "the benefits of universal masking have been difficult to quantify" in the real world, where cloth models predominate and masks may not be clean, well-fitted, or worn properly.”
The laboratory studies were mostly tests of models which presupposed droplet dispersal. N95 masks did reduce droplet dispersal, if properly worn (which they mostly aren’t). But public dispersal is primarily by aerosols with COVID-19, because it is asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic. When you are coughing, you are ejecting droplets of water, that can contain the virus. But in real life, most symptomatic people, who are coughing and expelling water droplets, are mostly in bed, effectively self quarantining. Also, note, that the viral load drops significantly when you shift from presymptomatic to symptomatic - because your body has shifted to actively fighting the virus, and it’s immune system is in high gear killing virons.
Aerosols are exhaled at normal breathing rates.
Iirc, CDC tested on rhesus monkeys infected with Covid and ascertained an average of 500 Covid-laden aerosols per exhalation, resting.
These monkeys are about 1/5 the size of a person, so go figure.
Iirc, CDC tested on rhesus monkeys infected with Covid and ascertained an average of 500 Covid-laden aerosols per exhalation, resting.
I'm sure it was 500 +/- 1 and not 500 +/- 750 across 10,000 approximately volume-equivalent monkey breaths (or whatever). "We captured all the droplets in the monkeys' breath and there were only 500 with COVID!" ROFLMAO.
But theyre a higher IQ than the Branch Covidians.
They throw political feces.
R-95 mask do more damage to those wearing them. They STILL don't work for limiting the spread of a virus. But they DO keep more moisture and Carbon Dioxide between u and the outside. Which helps tremendously in being a petridish of bacteria for u fools to continue breathing in. U mask wearing fools prove everyday what freaking morons u r. It only makes sense that u jackasses continue to chase the next faze of your demise. Happy days r on the way. Only after all the sheeple r gone..., can man move onto to its Golden Age. So hurry up fools and start wearing 3-mask at a time. Hey.... I'm just trying to protect u.
The Phucko Knows
"There Is Little Evidence That Mask Mandates Had an Important Impact During the Omicron Surge"
...or, like, at all.
It's fun to watch the Branch Covidians still trying to convince us that "Heyyyy Maskarena" is a hot dance craze.
Vinay Prasad interviews Jacob Hale Russell:
How scary it was how people said "We're certain it works and we don't even need to study it. In fact it would be unethical to even look into it."
AKA Tony.
Link.
Great part @12:58. Prasad holds up an old cloth face mask that he bought at costco early on, talks about what a huge joke the thing is, and Russell points out that according to the CDC it was "more effective than vaccines"
Prasad: According to MMWR it has a 55% [unintelligible]
I assume he was going to 55% reduction in covid transmission.
Because particle physics.
Is it going to keep being this way? No matter the crisis, there you guys will be, protesting only the most minor of inconveniences it causes you?
By fixating on masks (during a pandemic) as your big problem in life, you're telling me that you don't have that many problems in life.
Good for you. Once there is no poverty or injustice on planet earth, I'll listen to vent about your silly little phobia.
Good for you. Once there is no poverty or injustice on planet earth, I'll listen to vent about your silly little phobia.
I'm FOR you being masked.
Muzzled.
You and your policies create the poverty and injustice. Get fucked by some fat redneck Republicans dick.
If redneck Republicans had fat dicks they'd have enough self-confidence to be normal people.
They are normal, which is why braindead deviants like you remain concerning.
If shitlib faggots had less mental illness, they'd have enough self-confidence to not project that on to everyone else.
Freedom means not having to ask permission or obey commands as long as you follow the law. And for this the law has to be just and understood.
Today none of those things are the case.
I'm thinking garlic necklaces might work.
LoL
Never ceases to crack me up, how Reason writers are JUST NOW coming to the same conclusions that their commentariat knew from the beginning.
Try to keep up, eh guys?
D'oh! This was meant to be way down thread. Another way Reason can emerge from the dark ages: change your comments section to something more easy to navigate.
Disqus.
This SW sucks.
No meme images= no fun
There you go again making false claims about masks causing no harm, especially to young children and deflecting to other subjects, many of which got worse because of policies you supported during the pandemic.
Your ignorance is literally mind blowing. U can't possible be for real. U r but a slave to your wanted ignorance.
The Phucko Knows
Philadelphia has a 'food pyramid' of COVID.
Or perhaps a Homeland Security Alert Pyramid. They're at DEFCON MASKS ONLY. Seriously.
THats " Filthadelphia"
Meh. Kept the tigers away.
They protected me from Bigfoot and panthers.
I haven't heard of a single UFO abduction of any double-masked Branch Covidian.
However there have been reports of demonic possession .
From day one the government knew the masks did not good. Look at OSHA and MSA (Mine Safety Administration). There is no approved application of cloth masks. Why? Because they know they don't work!
Use of masks is both proven effective and encourages increased activity, including business. People don't avoid human interaction because the government told them to, but out of reasonable hesitancy and fear of a highly contagious disease. Fighting them suppresses activity, business and otherwise and is a short sighted, knee jerk position by those claiming they want back to normal activity while undercutting it.
"A large, well-designed cluster-randomized trial in Bangladesh in late 2020 found that surgical or cloth mask distribution, role-modeling, and active mask promotion tripled mask use to 42.3% in intervention villages compared to 13.3% in comparison villages. In villages receiving mask interventions, symptomatic seroprevalence of SARS-CoV-2 was reduced by approximately 9% relative to comparison villages. In villages randomized to receive surgical masks, symptomatic seroprevalence of SARS-CoV-2 was significantly lower (relative reduction 11.1% overall). The results of this study show that even modest increases in community use of masks can effectively reduce symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections (COVID-19).37
A study of an outbreak aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt, an environment notable for congregate living quarters and close working environments, found that use of face coverings on-board was associated with a 70% reduced risk of infection.38
A study examining SARS-CoV-2 secondary attack rates among eight public K-12 school districts in Massachusetts (70 schools with >33,000 enrolled students) during the 2020–21 school year found an unadjusted secondary attack rate of 11.7% for unmasked versus 1.7% for masked interactions.40
A retrospective case-control study from Thailand documented that, among more than 1,000 persons interviewed as part of contact tracing investigations, those who reported having always worn a mask during high-risk exposures experienced a greater than 70% reduced risk of acquiring infection compared with persons who did not wear masks under these circumstances.41
In a nationwide analysis of data collected during July 1-September 4, 2021, U.S. counties without school mask requirements experienced larger increases in pediatric COVID-19 case rates (18.53 per 100,000 per day more cases) after the start of school compared with counties with school mask requirements.43
An investigation of a high-exposure event in the U.S., in which 2 symptomatically ill hair stylists interacted for an average of 15 minutes with each of 139 clients during an 8-day period, found that none of the 67 clients who subsequently consented to an interview and testing developed infection. The stylists and all clients universally wore masks in the salon as required by local ordinance and company policy at the time.44
Investigations involving infected passengers aboard flights longer than 10 hours strongly suggest that masking prevented in-flight transmissions, as demonstrated by the absence of infection developing in other passengers and crew in the 14 days following exposure.45, 46
At least ten studies have confirmed the benefit of universal masking in community level analyses: in a unified hospital system,47 a German city,48 two U.S. states,49, 50 a panel of 15 U.S. states and Washington, D.C.,51, 52 as well as both Canada53 and the U.S.54-56 nationally. Each analysis demonstrated that, following directives from organizational and political leadership for universal masking, new infections fell significantly. Two of these studies51, 52 and an additional analysis of data from 200 countries that included the U.S.56 also demonstrated reductions in mortality. Another 10-site study showed reductions in hospitalization growth rates following mask mandate implementation.54 A separate series of cross-sectional surveys in the U.S. suggested that a 10% increase in self-reported mask wearing tripled the likelihood of stopping community transmission.57 An economic analysis using U.S. data found that, given these effects, increasing universal masking by 15% could prevent the need for lockdowns and reduce associated losses of up to $1 trillion or about 5% of gross domestic product.52
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/masking-science-sars-cov2.html
Ha you linked to the CDC. The Bozo's circus of science.
Yeah, hey, aren't they the guys who have overseen research and distribution of the highly effective vaccines in the US?
You know I assume that they are so effective that in both red and blue states, it is the unvaxxed - aminority of the population almost everywhere - who lead in new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths.
No, they are not, in either case.
NEEDS MOAR WORDZ
All that just to say u r but a counted on ignorant fool. NOBODY proves how full of shit Friday is... More then Friday himself. He's like the master spoke person for the sheep. He has to be employed by big pharmaceutical. As nobody is this much of a cheerleader for propaganda.., who doesn't have a direct interest in keeping the lies going. Friday is as disgusting as a human can get. Just freaking gross.
The Phucko Knows
There is little evidence mask ever had any impact...at all. The studies before Covid on mask indicated that surgical masks had little to no affect on the spread of disease. N95 masks might have a small affect.....but not the way the public wears them.
Masking has always been Covid theater.
Moral of the story is don't trust any study post Covid. They are politicized. C19 is new but Coronaviruses are not and pre-Covid studies indicate that these masks have never been effective virus viruses. Cross section of the virus molecule is too small.
Covid mask test.
.Ping Pong balls were dropped into a mask.
The mask stopped them.
Therefore masks work.
Thats " Settled Scyinse" TM Fauci/ CDC
And control.
I usually catch a cold or two a year. Haven't had one since January 2020.
Can't prove that COVID precautions are the reason. Likewise nobody can prove the pandemic would or wouldn't have been worse without them.
Just a bunch of correlation.
Me neither. About that time I had some sniffles and a slight fever. Took two aspirin and went to bed a bit early....woke up the next day with no fever and only a little bit of sniffle which disappeared the next day.
Nothing since. Only nausea when I hear Biden speak.
The masks didn't work during any phase.
I already read a comprehensive review of the effectiveness of masks: https://www.justfacts.com/news_face_masks_deadly_falsehoods
One of the conclusions: "the CDC is scraping the bottom of the scientific barrel by cherry picking and distorting low-quality and unrealistic studies to support the claim that masks control the spread of C-19."
Never ceases to crack me up, how Reason writers are JUST NOW coming to the same conclusions that their commentariat knew from the beginning.
Try to keep up, eh guys?
In other news, Joy Behar has proclaimed she will wear a mask forever! That's good news indeed and she can wear a paper bag over her head to go along with it.
Plastic not paper.
Itll leak unless its duct taped around the neck.
Cant be too safe.
I’m usually glad I don’t have kids, but I am little sorry I won’t get to wow my grandkids by telling them of the Mask Wars in the early 21st century.
Yesterday I ran some errands. A couple stores had signs that all customers had to be masked. 2/3 of customers were not going for it. One employee told me not to worry about it, they were refusing to enforce it. I live in Austin, which is extremely liberal. Even here, people are fucking done with the virtue signaling. I’ve had all the shots and masked like mad, along with everyone else here, and I still kicked off 2022 with a case of Covid. Enough.
See how well that vaxx worked for ya?
If Lady Dada didn't end up in the hospital or morgue, then maybe the vaccine did work for her. While the data shows that the vaccine reduces the risk some for getting infected with the COVID virus, it shows that it reduces the risk of serious disease by a lot.
The vast majority of us face no serious risks even from full-blown vax-free Covid. Even the CDC now admits that most people who died of it had significant comorbidities or were elderly.
From the beginning, our response to the virus has been wildly out of proportion. We’re killing a wasp with a sledgehammer. Kids playing sports with masks on is insane. The impact of masks on our ability to communicate clearly is not worth whatever minimal benefit we get. Most communication is nonverbal. Covering half our faces is unnatural.
I get a flu shot every year because I hate being sick, and I may choose boosters against Covid for the same reason. You feel free to mask up if you want. If you think my naked face is a threat to you, feel free to keep your distance.
The mask and the mRNA shot r but bullshit. Yet u still picked one to do harm to yourself. So I guess your selectively clueless.
The Phucko Knows
Prove that.
The internets full of liars saying " someone else said" and theyre universally wrong.
..and here come the Asshole Sock Semen...playing White Knight.
Fortunately you assholes are Muted so Im not bothered by your inbred stupidity....
( cue " Send in the Clowns"...)
BTW, the slimy piece of lefty shit JasonT20 was kind enough to leave a permanent record of his dishonesty and imbecility:
JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?...”
Yes, this asshole is promoting murder as a preventative measure to keep someone from *possibly* doing something to which this shithead objects.
JasonT20
February.19.2022 at 3:11 pm
"If Lady Dada didn't end up in the hospital or morgue, then maybe the vaccine did work for her..."
Yeah, shithead, if that rock weren't on back porch, who knows how many tigers would have come in the back door.
Fuck off and die, slaver.
enFORCE?
WT holy F??????
. Since when do corporations take suggestions from a Govt Agency and pretend customers are their employees to ENFORCE anything?
I have a response...two words. The second is " you."
Guess the First...
Me likey that picture at the top. ILBT !!
That needs to be atop every page. All 4 of them.
Masks have been touted as " most effective measure..."
Yes they are...bc nothing else works.
So if masks work for 0.000000001 % of some metric, 0.000000001% is > 0% so they declare a political success- bc it sure as hell isnt a scienceing success.
Name one bio lab, except Wuhan, where ONE worker would wear a Virtue Signalling Mask into a containment room.
One.
Thats " safe and effective," isnt it?
No, its a deadly mistake.
Wuhans proof. Except Commie China doesnt give a plague- ridden- rats- ass about a dead Chink bc they have a billion, so whos gonna miss a few million?
Unlike the 60 and 70s, the worthless Media arent asking questions. They are purely lap dogs and complicit in spreading lies.
Masks had, and will have, a very significant impact on schoolchildren.
We will be decades recovering from the damage, mental and physical, inflicted.
Recall about Japans " Lost Decade?"
That decade of economic anomaly turned into 20 years and counting.
I'd say were in for 30... these kids are the Permanent Welfare State.
"Permanent jobless recovery "
.President Black Plague
Oh my gosh! Yeah, just like the London bombings, the Rape of Nanking, Dust Bowl migrations, and "duck and cover", scarred for life.
Children must never learn really bad things are possible, but we hang together and they can do their part proudly. That's just "slave" thinking, right?
I could have sworn these were the same people criticizing helicopter parenting culture. You know, those precious snowflakes.
But also, let's not teach children about slavery or sex or put them through any adversity during a crisis.
If you actually had children (and thank Dog your fucked-up hicklib genetics will never be passed down to anyone), you'd know there's a difference between hovering over your kid 24/7, and keeping tabs on their well-being.
put them through any adversity during a crisis.
This coming from the same guy who's side has a conniption fit if people don't address them by their preferred pronouns.
I think the pronoun issue is overblown. If you're talking to someone, the correct pronoun, if necessary, is "you." If you're talking about someone behind their backs, it hardly matters. You can't be rude to someone who can't hear you.
This.
I honestly don’t understand all the Tony hate around here. Despite being a godless communist, you clearly do some independent thinking.
However, my preferred pronouns are His Majesty/His Majesty’s, and I require those who would address me to address me in the third person.
stealing ideas and Copy- Paste is not independent thinking.
Monkeys think. They also throw shit.
Hence, Tiny.
I am so NOT getting tired of that pix atop the page.
That blue tank top is just perfect. Yum.
Good things do come in pairs.
Permapost nomination.
California still has a "state of emergency" order. Newsom is Trudeau in California clothing. Remember when they said "just two weeks to flatten the curve"? I do!
Two years to flatten your will to resist
it is a good topic
شركة نقل عفش
fuck off sharia.
It never had anything to do with health or preventing the spread.
It was all about power and control.
Power and control.
Control.
If I wanted to shore up my power and control, I wouldn't do it by annoying the fuck out of everyone with something like masks. Frankly, the government has prisons and, like, nuclear weapons.
If you're surprised that people are encouraged to mask during a global pandemic of a virus that spreads through spittle, then maybe the giant conspiracy in your head is evidence of a personal problem.
If you're surprised that people are encouraged to mask during a global pandemic of a virus that spreads through spittle
Just above you said it was airborne. Make up your mind, hicklib.
Airborne means spread by spittle you incomprehensible moron.
Why are you expressing opinions here? What the fuck entitles you to speak on these matters given your profound, willful ignorance?
The presumption that pre-Omicron vaccines might not be as effective against Omicron may have encouraged officials to avoid drawing politically-hazardous conclusions regarding prophylaxis via masks.
CDC has a proven track record of extreme reticence in releasing information, and a pronounced preference for attacking the very public confusion and misinformation that their own silence fosters.
Who would wear prophyactics instead of masks?
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Economist points out the stupidity of repealing mask mandates for adults, but leaving them in place for kids:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/02/relaxing-covid-restrictions-kids/622857/
Based on the science, the kids-last approach makes no sense. Kids should face fewer restrictions than their parents, not more. But after two years of telling parents to be afraid for their children, policy makers can’t simply turn around and tell them that kids are low risk and everything’s fine. Policy makers need to carefully and patiently explain why and when the masks will come off and the quarantine rules will end, while making clear that parents can still choose additional precautions no matter what local governments mandate.
After two years of feeding the Karens, you get to be the one to unchain them....
Attempting to differentiate a cluster fuck only brings a portion of a clusterfuck.
The whole is a sum of its parts.
Theyre just playing the Bouncing Ball with the 'for the chilrun' because by gum, a Party that murders millions of unborn babies surely knows about morals and ethics.
Thus they occupy moral high ground over tawdry dissenters like Us.
" Deplorables" is one term.
OS HIIT!!
NARRATIVE FAIL !!
The Queen has the bug...
Shes vaxxed
Not sick.
Must be Omni-Cold.
Pfizer...4 doses.
When will it be 15 doses and 45 boosters?
GD liars
At this point, your failure to understand how this works is on you.
It's long been widely known that the vaccine does not guarantee no illness. The omicron variant got pretty much everybody and made a lot of triple-vaxxed people mildly sick over this past winter.
Nearly everyone getting severely sick and dying of COVID are unvaccinated.
There's the complex math for you. Without the vaccine the queen would be at serious risk of dying.
You should just take the number of shots the CDC tells you to. You've clearly not been well served by the right-wing shock jocks you get your medical information from.
speaking of liars, theres Tiny.
Youll type easier with your hand out of your pants.