The War on COVID Has Become a Quagmire. Americans Need an Exit Strategy.
Like the war on drugs and the war on terror before it, the war on COVID is a futile, deeply destructive campaign, and Americans want out.

What if we not only lost the war on COVID, but it was never really winnable? That's increasingly what voters seem to believe—and for good reason, as a recent study suggests the limits of policymakers to control the virus through behavioral regulations.
In her Codebook newsletter, pollster Kristen Soltis Anderson looks at the abrupt retreat from COVID restrictions by Democratic governors and mayors, and tries to identify the source of the shift.
In blue states like New Jersey and California, as well as liberal cities like Washington, D.C., elected officials have rolled back various pandemic policies over the last few weeks, leading to accusations of cynical political motives—that, as GOP Sen. Tom Cotton (Ark.) quipped, "the science hasn't changed, the polling has."
It seems fairly obvious that Democrats can sense a change in the political winds as case counts plummet across the country, and they are acting accordingly. As Josh Barro recently wrote in his newsletter, Democratic governors are "running to where the COVID ball is going."
But after surveying the polls, Anderson suggests there's something deeper going on, that it's not so much that there's been an abrupt change in whether voters, especially blue state voters, favor COVID restrictions, but instead that many of those voters have simply given up on the idea that COVID can ever be defeated. As Anderson puts it: "The turn away from COVID restrictions seems less about them having become deeply unpopular overnight, but rather that public opinion has soured on our ability to win the fight against COVID at all." Two years in, the war on COVID increasingly feels like a quagmire, and voters are looking for an exit plan.
I use the phrase war on COVID on purpose, for there are clear echoes of both the war on drugs and the war on terror: long-running government campaigns championed by the political class and predicated on preserving public health and safety, which eventually proved futile at best, and deeply destructive and counterproductive at worst. Both involved a mix of largely symbolic acts, intended mostly to visibly demonstrate that something was being donem and more punitive initiatives that produced damaging effects that tended to fall heaviest on out groups with little political influence.
Those campaigns became permanent parts of the American political landscape in part because they offered ambitious bureaucrats and politicians paths to consolidate power, and in part because of the uneven distribution of their consequences. The first is obviously true for many COVID hawks, especially for public health authorities. But while the negative effects of COVID restrictions have certainly hit some groups harder than others (children, and children with learning disabilities in particular), the overall impact has been more widespread: Over the past two years, almost everyone in America has, at the very least, been inconvenienced or frustrated, if not worse, and for many, those inconveniences and frustrations have become fixtures of daily life.
Those inconveniences were a price that many Americans were willing to pay, especially at first. Early on, polls found support for staying at home, social distancing, masking, and even closures, especially in more left-leaning locales. But it now seems it was a price they were willing to pay only if those irritations produced demonstrable results.
And those results have not been forthcoming. Indeed, you can see the failure of COVID restrictions in a recent meta-analysis led by a John Hopkins University economist which reviewed 34 papers on the mortality effects of pandemic policy restrictions and found that non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs)—basically, mandatory behavioral controls, which include anything from masking to forced quarantines and business closures—had very little effect on COVID deaths.
The working paper does have some limitations: In particular, the most recent paper was published in June 2021, which means it doesn't tell us much about COVID policy during the Delta or Omicron waves.
It also excludes most epidemiological research, since it relies on studies that track what has already happened rather than on studies exploring what might have happened using epidemiological models as counterfactuals. Essentially, it focuses on studies that use observational research rather than on studies comparing reality to public health simulations. Notably, this year's Nobel Prize in Economics went to a group of economists who pioneered that sort of observation-based study methodology; it's quite useful for, among other things, studying the effects of policy changes.
So this analysis isn't the final word on pandemic restrictions. But what it suggests is that it's quite difficult to find large observable effects on mortality from behavior-based COVID policies.
What I suspect is driving discontent with the war on COVID, however, is that you don't need a meta-study to observe the futility of those restrictions. Two years into the pandemic, Americans have seen schools closed and reopened (and sometimes closed again), thousands of businesses shut down and return (sometimes in altered form), masking denigrated as useless then held up as essential, and mask mandates turned on and off and sometimes on again. It's simply not obvious to many people that any of it worked very well to control the virus, or, if it did work somewhat, that it was worth the trade-offs. Masking rules, in particular, are self-evidently arbitrary and absurd, as anyone who has had to mask between a hostess stand and a table, or sat maskless at an airport bar surrounded by masked travelers, can see. Yet President Joe Biden continues to side with the interventionists, saying just this week that ending mask mandates now would be "premature."
The irritations and frustrations, meanwhile, are clear and persistent, even as COVID waves continue to swell and crash. And so what voters, even in COVID-cautious blue states, increasingly seem to have concluded is that whatever it is we're doing isn't working—so why are we doing it?
The only thing that does seem obvious in this pandemic morass is that vaccines continue to be effective at preventing severe disease and death if you do catch COVID, which probably explains why most Americans, including a majority of Republicans, have gotten the jab. This may or may not represent victory, in the sense that the virus is still with us, and the disease's death toll over the last two years is still staggeringly high. But it is an exit strategy from yet another failed government campaign—and right now, that's what Americans appear to both want and need.
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Idiots.
Biden's WH, Democrats, or Reason?
Yes
The issue is that the exit strategy is to admit that we've been correct this whole time, which they can't do. They are going to credit the NPIs for working and take credit for the NPIs.
^This^
Being a politician or a bureaucrat means never having to admit you were wrong, and never having to face any consequences for being wrong. In fact, I'm given to believe that's one of the main perks of the job. That and forcing people to OBEY your every whim with the threat of state sanctioned violence if they don't.
That may be their strategy but it's a terrible long term strategy. It actually makes people less inclined to trust you if you don't admit mistakes. Research has demonstrated continuing to refuse to admit mistakes leads to less trust than admitting when you are wrong. People are willing to forgive mistakes, but they aren't willing to forgive people who refuse to admit they were wrong, even when they're demonstrably wrong.
This probably goes a long ways towards explaining the major loss in Government and Biden in particular since Afghanistan. Biden refuses to admit he is ever wrong, even when confronted with unimpeachable proof, often from within his own administration, that he was wrong.
Those would be valid concerns had we not already moved on from "trust us" to "we will make you obey."
What Biden (his handlers really) and the CDC are doing right now is the "what are you going to do about it?"
IOW this is still a political fight, just not the same fight we've been having for the last 18 months. This has shifted onto much more serious terrain.
Reason, being the good DNC narrative servants they are, is simply trying to keep your eyes focused on the previous battle, not the coming one.
They put thier plan into effect. EVERYTHING was done by design. The only "mistake" was it not having the "legs" to carry on the hoax for the full 5-yrs that they planned. Thank GOD the morons like you r out numbered by folks with the capacity to think for themselves. If ass wipes like u had their way this Plandemic would last for the next decade. U my friend r one gross ass human.
The Phucko Knows
word.
Strategy.
Kick out Biden, FauXi, CDC of DC..
Eliminate the real problem.
Problem ? Solution!
FJB
Temporarily removing these (largely) figureheads will not solve the problem. The Trump years showed us that.
We did not get rid of enough.
Are you suggesting Joe Biden — the overwhelming choice of Koch-funded libertarians — has failed to shut down the virus? Sounds like something I'd read at wingnut.com.
#LibertariansForBiden
I'm sure the western Cardinal of the Church of FauXi, Joe Friday will be along to correct the record.
OpenBordersLiberal-tarian has long Koch.
Exit strategy: rescind every "emergency" declaration ever issued about the Communist Chinese Virus and eliminate the CDC, FDA, and NIH.
TA-DA!
Seems so simple a child could implement it. That means it will never happen.
Eeee, this article will make the dead-enders piss themselves.
Like the war on drugs and the war on terror before it, the war on COVID
is a futile, deeply destructive campaign, and Americans want outwill never end.ftfy
My OCD friends are decrying the end of masking in California. It's NOT the end. Still gotta wear masks in stores and all that. Just not in your cubicle at work. But most workplaces still require it. So very little has changed.
Some dance classes have now chosen to make masking optional and up to the teacher. Sounds sensible to me, but one friend who teaches one of those classes is besides himself in horror. Elsewhere Stanford has opened its campus back up to non-students so long as they do not enter buildings. Gosh, did the student body cards previously prevent infection? Still, the idea of people walking around outside in an open and airy and sunny California campus is shocking to other friends. Uh wait, there was NEVER a mask mandate for outdoors. Why the all the pants shitting? Parks have been open for over a year now (they should never have been closed, fuck Newsom), but suddenly now it's an issue?
I can excuse my friends, they are OCD and on the spectrum. But that does not excuse the legal of Karens fearmongering about the pandemic. We're no longer in the pandemic, COVID-19 has been in an endemic stage for quite a while now. People who are not vaccinate are not going to get vaccinated, and the more you push them the more they will resist. So just give it up already.
I'm fully vaccinated with boosters, and I am not afraid of the world. Nor should anyone else who is vaccinated. Those who aren't are stupid, but there's no cure for stupidity, so let them get on with their live while we get on with ours.
End the stupid lockdowns. We'll never get back to normalcy, but at least let us get back to life.
Yes teens and young adults, non obese, non comorbidity non crypt keepers are stupid for not needing to get a vaccine for .0004, you're stupid then if you drive or take any motorized transport.
Nor should anyone else who is vaccinated
Or even if you're not.
If you're not vaccinated yet then you already don't care. So why waste energy on you?
I really don't understand the big deal about people not being vaccinated. If someone doesn't want to protect themselves, then why give a fuck? It's not going to harm me or anyone else who is vaccinated.
Well that's a change from the last 2 years of you crying about people needing to be masked and vaccinated on the basis if it helps any tiny bit above 0%.
I unmuted you just in case you were saying something relevant.
As usual you are rebutting things I never said nor did.
Back on mute you go, trollboy.
POST THE LIST!
There's a useless tool I won't bother to unmute.
WE WANT THE LIST!
Lol. I have the posts you lying piece of shit. Want them?
POST THE LIST!
We need it for drinking games.
Some people can't get vaccinated even if they wanted to.
So we vaccinate everyone not at risk, even those at risk for severe adverse reactions?
In any healthcare intervention there must always be a cost-benefits analysis. As much as it may hurt some people's feelings, unfortunately, nature is a bitch, and you can't always mitigate all risks. Pretending otherwise or even attempting to, generally ends up costing more over the long term, than the short term risks justifies, and generally injures more people long term than the number benefitted over the short term. I know utilitarianism is a dirty word these days, but we need to get back to it, especially in most government programs.
Medicine is supposed to be utilitarian, that is the whole basis of triage.
Even Hawkeye Pierce couldn't save them all .
I reference MASH because it's a prime example of how the media celebrates fictional doctors who ignore the rules and utilitarian considerations, never showing how his decisions impacted his fellow surgeons and the other wounded soldiers, but instead how his rule breaking saved the day. In real life Hawkeye's actions often would have resulted in more people dying than he saved. I served with a CSH (modern day version of a MASH unit on steroids) and we watched MASH to learn what not to do.
Or, they have such a low risk, but are in the demographic most at risk of cardiac problems (no matter how small they claim that risk just) they have decided that there is little benefit to getting the vaccine, compared to the risk they run if they experience adverse reactions.
You and Brandy seem to ignore this possibility, with your if they don't want to protect themselves line.
Reading the FDA approval process for vaccines in under 20 yo, I am surprised it was ever approved, except for those with pre-existing medical conditions.
Or you do care, but given your health history, you have made the decision that the risks of the vaccine, doesn't outweigh your personal benefits. The risk of cardiac problems in youths, especially males, is high enough and the risk from the disease is small enough, that I now regret having my two teenage sons, with no underlying co-morbidities, vaccinated. Unfortunately my eldest son needs it for his job, and because he is the National Guard. I have decided it isn't worth giving to my 11 yo daughter.
I won't be getting my 14 yo son boosted, my oldest I am going to hold off until his employer says something or he reports to basic. The risk of myocarditis increases with each shot, and the longer between shots, the less the risk of myocarditis. So I will push his shot off as long as I can.
I had covid. i am not old and in good health. It was 2-3 days with a mild fever.
Back when there was delta, uncertainty about the virus, and faux certainty that the vaccines were actually vaccines i did get the two Pfizer shots. Now that its three or four or however many boosters, i'm out. I already know covid poses zero point zero meaningful risk to me. Regardless of how vanishingly small the odds might be, i cannot say the same about these non stop boosters.
My kids (under 10) both had covid and it was a literal joke because of how mild the symptoms were. I have no intention of getting them the shots either.
If that means we want to kill grandma, fine. Piling risk on the young to spare the old is ass backwards policy anyways.
Especially as we start to understand the real, even if rare, possible adverse reactions of myocarditis and pericarditis in kids, especially young males. Both of these carry a high risk of life long heart problems.
Meanwhile our local county health czar won't lift the mask mandate that hasn't worked for the past 2 years, because we're not to 0 cases yet....
Sounds like my county.
Montgomery County, MD has about the highest percentage of vaccinated people in the country, and the mask mandates are still in effect till Monday (the school ones will still be in place). My idiot neighbors are all on their fainting couches about the potential maskless murderers they might encounter at the grocery store.
^ This is the whole bay area They are all like this. They will keep the masks forever.
They wanted vaccine passports but even the retards of Monkey County couldn't stomach that. When the mask mandate ends, I so look forward to wandering around in stores without them and enjoying the horror of the Covidians.
I was shocked that they didn't implement a Vax passport. I find myself rating lampposts based on which ones would be most visually pleasing if that pigfucker Elrich was dangling from them.
new rope?
Here in the opposite corner of the country most mask mandates are done. They still make my kid wear one at school when not at her desk, and I've had to put one on when visiting medical related stuff, (vet, hospital, dentist, eye doctor) but I don't know if that's state, federal, or company mandates.
The notable exception being Portland which has a city mandate by popular demand. Though if it was really that popular there wouldn't need to be a law. So fuck Portland. Any shopping I did there I now do in tax-free and mask-free New Hampshire.
You do know that to most of the people here, you are an OCD filled Karen right? You've been at the forefront of making excuses for these abuses as well as pushing The Science.
Get bent.
Those who aren't are stupid, but there's no cure for stupidity, so let them get on with their live while we get on with ours.
I was with you right up to this. Dismissing all disagreement as stupidity is never a good look. And a good way to avoid learning things and understanding other people.
Your talking to someone that thinks anyone against open borders is a racist.
Can't expect anyone who doesn't think to learn. Lotta people let authorities do their thinking for them.
Fuck off Karen.
I have less risk from the virus than from an experimental drug responsible for more user fatalities and harm than EVERY SINGLE OTHER VACCINE PUT TOGETHER.
Wait till they find out what's actually in those vax vials, if they live long enough that is.
Keep getting them boosters dude.... And soon enough u will FEEL what the problems r with putting an mRNA shot into your body. I must say.... It could not happen to a more deserving person. Say hi to my Grandfather for me when your yanked from earth.
The Phucko Knows
Good to see Reason figuring this out after 2 fucking years. By late April of 2020 it was patently obvious that it would not be stopped, and the assault on the treasury and our freedom should have not been occurring. Rather than pushing for freedom, we had your "Science Editor" harping about how we could test our way out of it, sprinkled with the occasional article about politicians not wearing masks in public.
All of this, sadly. Meanwhile the comment section was correct.....again.
Well, most of us. Joe Friday, White Mike, Jeffy, etc; not so much. I'm sure MollyG is going to faint...
I always lean pessimistic and for the last ten years I've been batting 1000. I'm so sick of winning.
Amen.
Testing could actually have been useful, as too much information is impossible, but too little information is what fuels fear. I doubt knowing more about COVID's spread would have changed politicians' love of locking down to show Trump who's boss, but it might have enlightened voters sooner and reduced the number of Karens.
In fact, too much data can be useless at times. It can lead to misinterpretations as often as to little.
Fear the unfiltered information. People might get ideas!
https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/19931641.covid-data-will-not-published-concerns-misrepresented-anti-vaxxers/
It only took these people a few years to determine what plenty of us saw right at the beginning.
It would be amusing if it wasn't so awful.
And the damage that's been done will take much longer to undo.
What I wonder about is how this whole debacle will shape the next big health scare from some other disease. If Asia is any clue, mask mandates will return in COVID 2: The COVIDING and people will probably 'follow the science' all over again.
"If Asia is any clue"
I remember in the early 2000s when SARS was a big thing, the news would should video of people in Asia wearing masks. SARS eventually went away and, to my knowledge, nobody credited masks as the reason why (if they had, our "experts" would've immediately jumped on universal masking).
Everyone already knew that masks were useless, based on the clues from Asia nearly 20 years prior. Yet, here we are.
The impact, especially their refusal to admit mistakes, when just about every one sees they were mistaken, will most likely lead to people ignoring them when they should be listening. Of course some people will never realize they were mistaken for purely ideological reasons. I don't need to name names as we are all aware who I am referring to.
And ironically enough these are the ones who are most likely to claim they are following The Science, because to them they have have turned science into religion.
" we had your "Science Editor" harping about how we could test our way out of it"
Yeah, that was an embarrassingly stupid take. But in journolisming you only fail upward.
It might have been useful if tests were available. You don't realize it, but freedom would have brought us pentiful tests. Washington f-ed that up too.
This is like Bush's WMDs.
Government pitch: "We have to find a way to defeat this very dangerous enemy and keep ourselves safe."
Public realization: "Oh fuck, there's nothing there! What the hell are we wasting blood and treasure for on a completely pointless political exercise."
Government pitch: "There's a bogeyman in here somewhere, just give us a minute!"
Part of this is the electorate's fault. There are a large contingent of hypochondriacs who cannot accept that government's ability to contain a disease is limited.
To be fair to those people, the government has been telling them for two years how they can contain the disease.
There is that, but excessive gullibility is still partly the fault of the person who is comforted by obvious BS.
Sure, blame the victim.
Quite a Left Wing LIAR you are.
No WMDs?
Funny. The UN MOVIC said there were. Tgey found some March 03.
Sign of Lying Left Wing Trolls?
Your off topic Bush Bashing.
So, PSYCHOPATH, Hussein commiting war crimes and mass murder with chemical weapins over 10 years is OK with you?
{ Documented by MOVIC, not your psychopathic political hatred)
Get counselling.
Agreed. They were indeed there.
And all the people who argued they did not exist were proven wrong. And proven to have made their arguments mostly in bad faith.
My only problem is that what was there had been there for decades and wasn't really deemed a problem for the vast majority of that time.
Google, how many days to Americans' covid exit strategy?
Google says, "In 264 days."
I won the war with Covid. Every member of the immediate family who got it survived with little issues. And me too
Part of the lucky 99+%
Personal anecdote:
Of all the people I know personally who got the Communist Chinese Virus, only one was not vaccinated before he got infected. And his case was milder than the ones discussed by the vaccinated.
And yet, you are still subject to myriad of regulations, depending on where you live, and your ability to avoid federal government interaction.
Same here. You know how you see all those headlines that read "so-and-so hospitalized after refusing vaccine, his message: get the shot"? The newspaper refused to run my "He survived COVID he didn't know he had, his message: if you're not in the vulnerable population, you'll be fine (p.s. get the vaccine if you want, don't hassle anyone else about it though)"
Yep, my 46 year old brother in law, with no significant health issues, sadly died from it. Rather than being the presented as the tragic statistical outlier that he was it got presented as "this is what will happen if you don't get vaccinated.
Noble lies are not noble and the people who tell them are still liars.
I knew two people who died with COVID, but both had extensive health issues, and were elderly. One had cardiac issues, the other cancer. It was during the initial outbreak. Sad, but not enough to panic over.
Because somewhere we went from trying to mitigate how bad the pandemic would be to trying to completely prevent it. Covid Zero was never a realistic goal, much less an achievable one, and governments trying to pretend it was in order reassure the most neurotic that the government had the capability to guarantee to save them, when it did not.
That 'somewhere' was when the antibody tests showed the virus was far too widespread to stop and we had already been living with it for months. That wouldn't get rid of Donald Trump, so the subtle shift to 'zero covid' from 'flattening the curve' happening. The cowards couldn't even admit they were chasing zero covid, though.
Maybe, but that seemed to happened in many Western countries as well. It cannot entirely be explained by "get Trump by any means".
Not entirely, sure. But government officials everywhere love to expand their power. They were already purchased by Gates and the huge network of 'experts' out there.
The two weak impeachments showed how desperate Dems were to stop Trump. The current Hillary-Russia "leaks" reinforce that desperation, even if only after-the-fact. But at the time, it was obvious to me that the lockdowns and masking and social distancing were desperate grabs at showing up Trump, at thumbing their noses at Trump, because they had at long last found something he couldn't control.
There's always some overlap in our "wars" but you skipped a couple of important steps.
The War on Drugs was averted by the War on Terror.
The War on Terror was averted by the War on Trump.
The War on Trump morphed into the War on the Pandemic.
The War on the Pandemic will only be averted by another "war".
It'll probably be the War on Insurrectionists this summer, but it may just morph into the War on Trump again.
Truth Social is supposed to launch in four days, and I'd expect Trump to start organizing Trump rallies and users to start organizing Canadian trucker like protests on the app shortly thereafter.
When and IF the progressives use the government to take down Truth social--despite Truth social being a privately owned entity--maybe the War on the Pandemic will finally be over.
It should probably be noted that if and when the Republicans take control of both the House and the Senate in November, the War on the Pandemic will definitely be over.
The War on Misinformation will probably intensify. The wrong kind of people saying the wrong kind of words? Can't tolerate that.
It’ll be interesting to see how Reason covers it if they do go after Truth.
Haha I’m just kidding, we know how they’ll cover it.
Actually, with the Whitehouse rhetoric the past couple of months on Ukraine, they seem to be hoping for an actual shooting war with Russia, rather than was Putin's plan or not. By this point they are almost daring him to invade. If he doesn't now, he looks weak, and dictators can't afford to look weak. It never ends well for them when they do.
*that
Please u infant. Putin is laughing his ass off at this kindergarten nonsense from Biden. Ukraine IS but a swamp of gross corruption in government and business. This is nothing more then the f-ing progressive trying to muddy the water to hide how they ALL were getting rich off a country that has a comedian running the show. R u ALL really this stupid as to belive Ukraine has ANY OTHER IMPORTANCE to America at the moment other then to create as much noise as possible to make a shield for dog shit Neoliberals and NeoCons to hide behind? Sorry... Dumb question.. As these comments r full of u idiots.
The Phucko Knows
Giggity!
Who else but Quagmire?!!
I think that some of the people in the political and media class don't want an exit. There's still some major bucks to be made. How many of our political and cultural "leaders", for instance, have a big pile of Pfizer stock in their portfolios?
Then too we've got midterms coming up with the Democrats looking to get blown out of the water. I'm sure they'd love a "Covid surge" at just the right time to let them exercise "emergency" powers to fortify the election process.
Here is the problem for the Democrats. Around two thirds of the population want this insanity to stop and stop now. The other third wants it to go one forever. The problem for the Democrats is that that third is composed almost entirely of loyal Democratic voters. Only about 45% or so of the country considers itself to be Democrat. If say 33% of the country are real hard core believers in the COVID cult, and it appears they are and also Democrats, that means the COVID cult is a a two thirds majority within the Democratic Party but a 1/3rd minority within the country at large.
How they are going to talk these fanatical lunatics off the ledge is beyond me. If the Democrats don't however, they are going to have a hard time winning an election outside of places like Berkeley and Manhattan.
I think that some of the people in the political and media class don't want an exit. There's still some major bucks to be made.
This. Why the hell would they stop now?
I'm pretty sure most of us already have an exit strategy: ignore the government dictates, ignore Pfizer's paid shill propagandists, and get on with our lives whether they like it or not.
Don't you love how a libertarian magazine calls two years of unimaginable government oppression and violation of its citizens' civil rights a "quagmire"? Suderman really is just a garbage person.
^This
word.
Ignoring the government has always been a winning strategy.
I am told, though I didn't hear it, that Suderman in a Reason podcast last summer said that he still wore a mask when walking outside in his DC suburb because "he didn't want his neighbors to think he was a Republican". A real profile in courage.
Last I looked, the CDC estimates that at least 74 million people and counting had gotten the COVID virus. I is more than "simply not obvious to many people that any of it worked very well". These measures have undeniably been worse than useless.
The irritations and frustrations, meanwhile, are clear and persistent, even as COVID waves continue to swell and crash. And so what voters, even in COVID-cautious blue states, increasingly seem to have concluded is that whatever it is we're doing isn't working—so why are we doing it?
The biggest systematic deprevation of civil rights in at least 50 years or more and Suderman calls it "irritations and frustrations". It is a real shame I guess that so many people lost their businesses and their jobs and died of drug overdoses and so tens of millions of children are now drastically behind in school and all that. It is just an irritation that now two years later Suderman is willing to admit maybe should end.
I am amazed how anyone could be such a clueless, uncaring, self centered asshole as Suderman appears to be in this article. What has to go wrong inside of someone's head to look at this situation and call it "irritations and frustrations"?
For the Branch Covidians, the sacrifice has been small--if indeed they see it as a sacrifice to be able to loaf about at home watching Netflix and only going out to find maskless people to yell at. They're having the time of their lives. They're so important and heroic!
What has to go wrong inside of someone's head to look at this situation and call it "irritations and frustrations"?
Live in a deep blue urban area and never your leave your social media bubble.
All those people that lost "their businesses and their jobs and died of drug overdoses?" Suderman doesn't know any of them personally, so why should he care? All those "tens of millions of children ... now drastically behind in school?" Those aren't Suderman's kids (not sure if he even has any) or the kids of anyone he knows, so why should he care? For him and the people he associates with the pandemic policies were just "irritations and frustrations."
That sums it up and also explains why COVID has pretty much destroyed my faith in humanity. I didn't have a lot of faith in humanity to begin with but even I didn't think people were this bad. Yet, they are. I cannot overstate how much I loath people like Suderman.
Much more than 74m, covidestim.org is estimating that about 70% of all Americans have been infected at least once. A year ago based on the surveillance of blood donors they came up with 30-40m but estimated the figure was low by about a factor of 3-4.
Easy for you to say when you live in Trumpistan.
Regarding modeling of policy changes - "it's quite useful for, among other things, studying the effects of policy changes." Just FYI, models aren't data, they're directed speculation. They might be "quite useful" for comparing imaginary outcomes, but they don't predict the future with much clarity. If they did, people would model the stock market, predict the future, and cash out. Every day. This blind belief in opaque "models" is an endless source of speculative bullshit, trotted out as fact by the media on a daily basis. Studies of actual concrete data provide "quite useful" output. Studies of modeled data are mostly nerd navel gazing exercises.
Did you think it was just the military-industrial complex that wants foreverwar?
The federal health apparatus sees the money attached to this. And for some of them (Tony Lysenko-Fauci), they're not going to give up all the attention they're getting.
Imagine if all these wasted resources were geared toward treatment rather than fascism.
So now it looks like the CDC essentially made up the interval between first and second doses out of whole cloth. They set the date based on the fact that they wanted as much data as possible to get the EUA shoved down our throats.
I'm not sure I've ever seen such a large, expansive narrative collapse so quickly and suddenly.
Holy fuck.
These fucking criminals should be in jail.
they don't want me on the jury ... to be sure.
Too bad they’re all immune.
>>vaccines continue to be effective at preventing severe disease and death if you do catch COVID
dying for the five- and ten-year effects.
What if we not only lost the war on COVID, but it was never really winnable? That's increasingly what voters seem to believe—and for good reason, as a recent study suggests the limits of policymakers to control the virus through behavioral regulations.
By 'voters' do you mean 'real scientists'?
Real scientists, are not The Science. Career bureaucrats who used to be scientists decades ago are.
Yeah, if Fauci is a real scientist then so is Mayim Bialik.
She may have a PhD in neuro-biology, but hawking brain vitamins in TV commercials, playing a crazy cat lady in a sitcom, and part time hosting Jeopardy doesn't make you a "real scientist" anymore than being a career federal bureaucrat makes one a "real scientist."
Smart people do not have to keep telling you how smart they are. Bialik can't shut up about it.
She got her PhD, then went right back into entertainment.
Where the covid ball is:
Feb 17th 2022: (declining)
Deaths: 3306
7 day avg: 2292
Feb 18th* 2021: (declining)
Deaths: 2265
7 day average: 2530
For 2020, I'm going to pick a date that is in the same declining pattern we're in now, but won't be Feb because there was no COVID in Feb 2020
May 1 2020 (declining)
Deaths: 1762
7 day average: 1935
The 2020 and 2021 numbers, death and disease was 'stalking the land' like a spectre, reaching out with its cold, bony hand on every human on the planet.
But 2022, in the same pattern of decline (or increase because they were saying 'COVOD is over' before the peak of Feb 1, 2022), we're suddenly out of the woods. We can breathe a sigh of relief.
*I had to use Feb 18th 2021 because Feb 17th was mysteriously unavailable
The only thing that does seem obvious in this pandemic morass is that vaccines continue to be effective at preventing severe disease and death if you do catch COVID
If the vaccines are so effective why are there more COVID deaths in 2021 than in 2020 in the US? No one was vaccinated in 2020. A large majority got fully vaccinated--and boosted--in 2021.
*You need some adjustment because the pandemic didn't start until March 2020 but the numbers won't show a clear drop in COVID mortality since mass vaccination started.
I believe the argument (flawed) is that Delta was even more virulent than the alpha in 2020. So you had a variant that was SO transmissible that it was able to overwhelm the shrinking percentage of unvaccinated people-- even faster than the alpha could in a 100% unvaccinated population. Then there are sub-arguments that the vaccine was really made for the alpha variant so that's why it wasn't as effective in the real world as the trials had shown (Reuters made this argument in a bogus 'fact check' where they lied about whether or not anyone had ever said the vaccine was 100% effective).
But yes, if your vaccine was as highly effective as that lying criminal Fauci has claimed, it seems unlikely Delta was so much more virulent that we'd have more overall deaths in 2022 than we did in 2021 with a rapidly increasing vaccinated population.
Diane you moron. Here's how effective the vaccines are: new covid cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have been and are being driven by the unvaxxed in both red and blue states, even when they are a smaller segment of the population than the vaccinated, as they are almost everywhere.
Is that too difficult for you to comprehend?
What exactly do you mean by "being driven"? And it is definitely not true for "cases". Vaccinated people are getting infected all over the place. The vaccines seem to reduce severity of illness in many cases, but it not creating widespread, long lasting immunity, which is generally what people have always meant when they call a vaccine "highly effective".
There are places where a majority of those hospitalized are vaccinated. You need to update your information.
The unvaxxed are the leading patients.
It is true for new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths.
And what the fuck does "the leading patients" mean? That's even more vague than "being driven by". Do you not see the problem here? You are making these statements with vague and undefined terms and they mean nothing.
I think he is trying to say the unvaxed are suffering the worse effects, which may true but does nothing to solve the problem of the vaccine not stopping the spread of the virus, which last I looked is what vaccines are supposed to do.
He is a moron Zeb.
I don't know why I bother. Hopefully someone else will benefit from seeing the arguments.
I suspect you are right that that is what he is getting at. And I acknowledge that that is likely the case to some extent in my first comment.
which last I looked is what vaccines are supposed to do
Arg, I'm tired of explaining this. The body has two types of ways to fight off viruses. Antibodies and t-cells. Antibodies fight off the virus to keep you from getting sick. T-cells go after the cells that the virus turned into virus factories. Traditional vaccines tell the antibodies how to fight off the virus, and that keeps you from getting sick. The disadvantage is that these vaccines are narrowly targeted. You need a new one for every variant or mutation. The mRNA vaccines don't appear to do much for antibodies, but they give the t-cells a head start. The advantage is that they target families of viruses instead of individual variants or mutations. The disadvantage of course is that they don't actually stop you from getting sick.
Maybe we need a new word for these kinds of vaccines so people with their heads up their butt yelling "It's not real because it's not the same as the flu vaccine!" might shut the fuck up.
I am fully aware of all of that. But, the vaccine was sold as a way to stop the spread of the virus. To now casually claim that well this is a different type of vaccine that just keeps you from getting sick, is a bit rich to say the least.
Well it looks like the people selling it as a way to stop the spread were wrong. Were they liars or being truthful with the information they had? Who knows.
But when people bleat "It's not a real vaccine!" they discourage people from getting it by convincing them of something that is false.
That is not productive.
They were lying pieces of shit all of them. None of this is new. Furthermore, it was known that the vaccine was not 100% effective and that the inevitable result of a less than 100% effective vaccine was the development of strains of the virus that the vaccine was ineffective in stopping.
Doesn't need to be 100% effective. Just significantly effective at stopping infections and transmissions. Which was never the case with these vaccines. The fact that their standard of effectiveness was reduction of severe disease made this clear immediately.
That's not to say that they aren't useful or good. Just that they aren't effective in the usual way we want vaccines to be effective. And that they won't be effective in making cases go down.
That's not to say that they aren't useful or good. Just that they aren't effective in the usual way we want vaccines to be effective. And that they won't be effective in making cases go down.
Which is why I don't understand the big push to get everyone vaccinated. If it truly stopped the spread in the way that other vaccines do then I could understand. You're helping others. Doesn't mean I'd support mandates, but heck I'd get it. But from what I can tell if you refuse to get vaccinated the only person you're potentially harming by refusal is yourself. And I suppose others paying into your health insurance plan if you get really sick and go to the hospital.
Briggs, the covid vaccines minimizes your chance of catching covid, that's why most new cases are among the unvaxxed even though they are a minority almost everywhere. This is a fact. Here's another: you cannot spread the virus if you don't catch it.
Let me do the math for you: If the vaccines helps you not catch it, it also helps you not spread it. Got it?
Exactly. A lot of people are still pretending that the vaccines worked the way they wish they did. I don't want to discourage anyone from getting vaccinated. But it's a personal decision that people get to make on their own.
If it was something like smallpox that was a really dangerous disease and a highly effective vaccine, there would be a much better argument for pushing hard on vaccination. But even then, persuasion is better than force. And I think that was demonstrated to be true in the case of smallpox.
Joe, how much is the effect the vaccine has on reducing your chance of catching it?
I read the FDA approval report last night for kids. The effect was 80% fewer of the vaccinated than the unvaccinated got COVID. Sounds really amazing until you realize that even unvaccinated in the study, 1% became infected and that neither group in the study that did become infected, were severe enough to require medical intervention other than acetaminophen to control fever. Given how little the rate of infection in the study was, it is questionable to put much reliance on the difference between the two groups. The based efficacy on a 0.7% infection rate among all children in the study. Even in their models, the vaccine benefits only outweighed the risk for adverse reactions in 1/3 of their models (two out of six models).
When you read this, it is very clear that the research used to approve the vaccine in 5-11 yo was very weak. Especially as the two models that showed benefits outweighing risk, the number of hospitalized for myocarditis from the vaccine was a third as large as the number hospitalized for COVID in the unvaccinated group.
That is a pretty severe risk factor according to their own models. And they admitted that the risk goes up with each subsequent dose for adverse reactions.
I have understood that about the mRNA vaccines since the Delta and now Omicron became the dominant strains. You realize that the rationale for vaccine mandates only makes sense if they do behave like flu vaccines?
You realize I've never supported mandates, despite what the trolls who shit on all my posts say?
Briggs, vaccines minimize catching and suffering from a disease, they don't "stop" it, though ultimately they may through herd immunity.
Not by themselves. I've explained this to you in the past. You can't vaccinate alone to herd immunity. That has never been part of the herd immunity theory, ever.
That throws 100+ years of immunology science right out the fucking window.
The only disease we ever eradicated with vaccines was small pox and took almost two centuries to accomplish. Smallpox mutated very slowly compared to COVID, had only one host (humans) and was droplet and contact spread, as opposed to aerosol spread. Droplet and contact spread require much closer contact to spread than aerosol. Additionally, the majority of the adult populations in urban centers, especially in Europe, had natural immunity from surviving smallpox as a kid, when they first started mass vaccinations. Also, most people who worked with cattle also had natural immunity, as the contracted the closely related, but not lethal, cowpox, which gave immunity.
So, in other words, using smallpox as a template isn't even close to being scientifically valid.
Polio, MMR,etc that we have nearly eradicated in the US also fail for similar reasons.
He doesn't know how proportions work. It's sad really.
ZEb: Leading, most, greater number, over-represented. Do you speak english? You can't weasel out of this fact with some number spinning like soldiermedic tried. The unvaxxed are over the problem because that are the most likely to be a new case, a hopsital patient, or carried out on a slab with Covid. Get it? Comprehend? Is it too difficult?
Fuck!
Forget it. You are clearly incapable of reason.
I didn't spin the numbers, I showed why the numbers you cited contradict your claim that vaccines would meaningfully stop spread.
I even showed the fucking math. Using data from your citations. If you think using the math is spinning numbers, you can't be helped. You are basically admitting, by showing you the numbers and the math extrapolating what those numbers means and call that spinning the numbers, you are basically admitting you are a sycophant uninterested in actually performing the most basic of scientific inquiry. You even admitted yesterday that you don't understand the numbers but trust the experts.
Soldier, here's some numbers for you (no one here including you have refuted this):
In both red and blue states the unvaxxed lead in new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths, even though they are a minority almost everywhere in the country.
The obvious conclusion to be drawn from this is - go get your fucking shot and encourage your friends and relatives to do the same. It's your civic duty, that is if you have any civic sense of responsibility and pride.
If you repeat yourself harder it'll magically come true! Keep the faith and never stop dreaming!
Please u jackass. EVERY person I know that got the mRNA shot got the Kungflu for a second time. Something is SERIOUSLY wrong with u. U r LITERALLY the enemy of the people. Just a gross ass f-ing clown show of a human.
The Phucko Knows
Please u jackass. EVERY person I know that got the mRNA shot got the Kungflu for a second time. Something is SERIOUSLY wrong with u. U r LITERALLY the enemy of the people. Just a gross ass f-ing clown show of a human.
The Phucko Knows
Any corpse that tested positive was counted as a COVID-related death. Any warm body in the hospital that tests positive is counted as a COVID-related hospitalization. Cause of death and reason for visiting the hospital are irrelevant.
So the numbers are meaningless.
That's not correct sarcasmic. Death causes were recorded by thousands of hospitals across the country in the same way they have always been, and many primary causes exhibit other contributing and lethal conditions. There is no evidence for this bullshit.
No they were not. Hospitals were paid a $13,000 for every COVID related death. All they had to do was list the cause of death as COVID related on the death certificate and they got paid.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/
The fact check post is a riot. It admits hospitals got paid and there was no way to check if it was actually true but everything is okay because there is "no evidence they ever did this". Yeah, why would the hospital ever put COVID related down on a death certificate unless it was 100% sure and not just someone who died and also happened to test positive?
Ah my favorite kind of fact check. W... we... well, yeah it's true, but it doesn't matter because we talked to Delmar Snodgrass of West Salt Pork Community hospital and he said they said that they weren't letting that money change their death count system. He even pinkie promised us.
Briggs, read your own link. Medicare pays between $13k to as much as $40k for cases similar to Covid in symptoms and treatment. On average, payments for covid patients were around $13k BECAUSE IT COSTS A LOT TO CARE FOR ICU PATIENTS!
No, they paid for COVID. It says so in so many words.
It is true, however, that the government will pay more to hospitals for COVID-19 cases in two senses: By paying an additional 20% on top of traditional Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients during the public health emergency, and by reimbursing hospitals for treating the uninsured patients with the disease (at that enhanced Medicare rate).
They paid extra for any patient that is called a COVID patient, meaning they tested positive for COVID.
Ever listen to the CDC read the numbers? I have. The CDC guy will say "X people died with COVID yesterday." The reporter will then say "X people died from COVID yesterday."
The CDC is remarkably honest about it. Go to their website. Do some googling. They say "with" because they are ignoring the cause of death. Which makes their numbers pretty pointless in my opinion. The media then takes the numbers and says "of" or "from" instead of "with" which completely changes the meaning.
Even they lying government hack fact checkers admit that the Hospitals were paid for every death they could attribute to COVID. Come on man, how could anyone accuse corporations or really anyone of checking the wrong box on a form in order to collect money from the government?
Read your own link Briggs.
I did. Unlike you, I understood it. Learn how to read or at least stop lying.
You once again show you don't even understand what you are denying. There was plenty of evidence that the numbers weren't counted the same way. The CDC even has outright admitted that, especially in youths, the number of admits includes a large majority who were admitted for reasons other than COVID, and happened to test positive at admissions. Your own vaunted CDC even admitted this.
We have never counted outbreaks that way since I started nursing school in 1995.
It's ALL bullshit. My GOD man u r one freaking idiot. U actually believe the PCR test can test for a virus. The false postives mean nothing to u fools. The inventor Karry Mullis told ALL what an ass Faucci is. He told ALL how Faucci misused his Noble prize winning test to manufacture his bullshit about HIV causing AIDS. Yet... Here Friday is still yacking his Devil speak. Friday is a true human jackass.
The Phucko Knows
Which numbers should we look at to see that deaths went down because of mass vaccination?
Vaxx cultists are arguing that 20-30% of the unvaccinated are producing about the same number of COVID deaths in 2021 as 100% of the unvaccinated in 2020. They don't have a good explanation for that.
I have no idea where to get honest numbers. Everyone who is counting has a political agenda. Mark Twain said that figures don't lie but liars figure. Since all the figures are coming from liars it's impossible to know for sure what is going on.
sarcasmic, the logical extension of your claim is that thousands of hospitals from all over the country are lying and manipulating data, either because they are part of a large conspiracy or because they get 20% more per patient diagnosed with covid than for illnesses requiring similar care. That would not only be criminal, but if doctors were needlessly requiring useless procedures, a violation of their Hippocratic Oath. Given doctors rarely own hospitals any more and are mostly employees, why would they do that.
Now you get why people are so angry.
Cause of death and reason for visiting the hospital are irrelevant.
I've done this work for my employer on the latter, and you're totally right about that. The state makes us report everyone that tests positive, whether incidental or not and whether symptomatic or not. Since the end of the first wave (whose severity cannot be understated), ~35% of COVID-positive patients were admitted for reasons totally unrelated to COVID.
This number has actually increased during the most recent wave, to the extent that at the peak of Omicron fully 40% of "COVID admissions" were totally asymptomatic, a figure we've only seen during the summers when nobody really has COVID.
*severity cannot be overstated
Even during the height of RSV outbreaks and influenza outbreaks, in 17 years as a nurse, I never saw mass testing, even in long term care facilities, unless it was indicated by the signs and symptoms. Even during the last swine flu outbreak.
In long term care facilities we did do routine temperatures on all residents during flu outbreaks and had standing protocols for testing if symptomatic, including fever. But we screened them is the point. We didn't jab a swab up every residents nose.
There are a lot more variables in play than just how many people were vaccinated
Funny how all our wars turn into quagmires. Vietnam, drugs, poverty, terrorism, Afghanistan . . .
It's almost like these people don't know what they're doing.
Oh, they know what they’re doing.
The covid war is the most massive crime against humanity ever committed. Worldwide, to varying extent but especially in the anglosphere, a "novel" virus that's relatively mild was used as a tactic to wage psychological and economic warfare by governments upon their own citizens.
Our way of life, in many cases livelihoods, was deliberately and maliciously destroyed by the globalist ruling class, media, collaborative population, "health" industry, and basically all institutions that wield power and/or authority.
Australia's government put people in concentration camps, not for being sick, not for being possibly sick, but for being disobedient.
Canada's government has declared martial law, complete with the promise to confiscate bank accounts based on "suspicion of support", on people who object to government forcing people to undergo medical procedures.
US government killed businesses en masse, systematically tortured children, forced elders into isolation and dying alone.
These are just the tip of the iceberg.
I will not forgive, and I will not forget, those who committed this crime and those who supported/aided them doing so.
Oh you poor thing Nardz. How did you survive?
Oh the humanity!!!
Seriously, fuck you buddy. Some of us actually care about other people and see what awful harm has been done by the reaction to covid. This isn't about our feelings or personal impact. And it's fucking offensive to suggest it is so when you have been correct so many times on that count. There was enormous real harm done, while failing to control or contain the pandemic. That is a fucking crime and useful idiot shits like you are complicit in it. You've fucked over a whole cohort of children and sent hundreds of millions of the poorest people in the world back to a state of absolute poverty. That's on you and all the assholes you support.
Seriously Zeb, for not the 1st time, humans faced a pandemic with the potential to kill millions, and it did, but many less millions than would have occurred without vaccines. Past humans would have given their left nut to have this tool, but babies like those who predominate on this site, fought that tool all the way, crying about their freedom to crap in the reservoir, likening themselves to Jews in Poland in WW2, and nitpicking about - big surprise! - the humans less than perfect response of those tasked with fighting the pandemic. You guys have been fucking up the economy and the country with your ignorance.
How about shut the fuck up, get your shot, and tell your friends to do the same.
Neither my comment nor Nards's was about vaccines. I acknowledge above that the vaccines reduce death and severe disease to some extent. That's good. But I'm not an asshole so I won't badger people to take anything. Medical decisions are private and personal and no one else's business.
No, Zeb, pandemics are not private decisions only. The SC ruled in 1905 that states have an interest in public health which justifies their involvement. As it is, we have all had numerous vaccines which were mandated for our attendance in school when we were young and those mandates are still in place, even in anti-vaxx states like Texas and Georgia - in fact, all of them.
A state interest doesn't mean they can do absolutely whatever they want. There is no pandemic exception clause in the constitution. We have the rights we have regardless.
And before 2020, it was widely agreed upon in the public health community that coercive measures were a bad idea. And what do you know, it turned out to be correct.
I oppose school vaccine mandates as well, but at least in those cases the vaccines are mostly for things that the vaccines can effectively eliminate. That is not the case for the covid vaccines. Which really undermines any justification for a mandate, even if I didn't have a moral objection to mandates in general.
Zeb, the covid vaccines are highly effective. Do you want to know how we know now? In both red and blue states new covid cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have been and are being driven by the unvaxxed, even though they are a minority of the population in almost all locations, but especially in the blue states.
OK, so "highly effective" means "slightly improves outcomes" in your mind. Which I never have denied. It means something different when I say it, as I have explained.
Using weasel but unquantifiable words or phrases such as "highly effective" demonstrates the weakness of your case. Any scientist are taught not to use unquantifiable phrases such as better, highly effective, etc, unless they also quantify the results. We are taught when you use these phrases it generally means your argument, data etc is extremely weak, or the effect is extremely weak.
Another word to be aware of is significant. When used in science writing, significant just means that you statistically showed an effect. If you don't quantify that effect, the word significant is meaningless.
God you're such a dishonest weasel. Soldier has taken great time and effort to really break everything down for you, and you blithely ignore science to go spewing misinformation.
Fuck you.
The jab is only effective at reducing SYMPTOMS for up to 4 months. This is shorter than the vaccine advisory panel has recommended spacing shots because of exceedingly high risks of heart disease from the jab. If you are not old or sick, you have a 99.98% Covid survival rate.
And AGAIN - easy to say "unvaxxed" are driving cases when everyone not current on their booster (about 70% of the nation) is lumped together.
Get boosted and go shovel snow.
You are comparing a case about a state mandate, for a disease with a IFR of 50-80% in all age groups, that also allowed anyone who survived smallpox to opt out as that gave them immunity,regardless of underlying medical conditions, to a national mandate for a disease that has a 99.98% survival rate for anyone outside a very specific age group, with underlying medical conditions, and allows no exemptions for those with natural immunity. And you think you have a valid point?
Also, this was the same USSC that ruled that states could force sterilization on people because the state ruled that they shouldn't reproduce related to immigration status, class, race etc.
Here's a little documentary on that and how that was entirely based on Eugenics.
Jacobson, the stairway to Eugenics in America.
Diane, you're pushing a eugenics of the unvaxxed as they are the one dying from covid.
No, the majority of the unvaxxed out dying, so it's nowhere close to eugenics. Almost all the unvaccinated dying are the same demographic group that the vaccinated who are dying belong to. Given this, targeted vaccinations is, was and remains the best option.
The IFR for unvaccinated, outside the at risk population, is 0.02%. Your unvaccinated are dying routine isn't supported by the data. Only by lumping those most at risk with those least at risk is it even close to being correct. But once you separate these two groups, your argument falls apart.
Especially, when multiple studies, some even conducted by the CDC, demonstrates that natural immunity is more effective at preventing infection than vaccines.
So in other words, the best method would have been to vaccinate at risk groups, offer but not mandate for those not in the at risk demographic, and send a good portion of our vaccine stockpile to third world countries to let them vaccinate their at risk populations.
This would have saved the most lives world wide, slowed down evolutionary pressure on the virus to develop vaccine resistance, and likely would have led to worldwide herd immunity faster, while protecting the most at risk populations.
soldier, "natural immunity" not only relies on putting yourself at risk for serious and possibly long term health problems, but there is data showing as many as 29% of those who come down with covid do not develop anti-bodies. Further, studies showed that those who had covid benefitted from the vaccine.
In short, cut the nitpicking and get your fucking shot. Tell your relatives and neighbors and try to help for a change.
He's not talking about vaccines. He's talking about shutting down businesses and other measures that have done dick to stop the spread while destroying lives.
sarcasmic, very few businesses were "forced" to close by governments though their operations became very difficult. The feds reacted by doling out money to workers and businesses to help ease the pain. I don't think the Nazi's did that for the Jews, but hey, maybe I missed something.
More importantly, studies in the fall of 2020 showed that most consumers avoided certain businesses and stayed home not because of edicts but out of fear of catching Covid. The bogeyman government doesn't fit this story, and of course social distancing - including staying out of tight quarters if possible - and masks helped suppress contagion.
Now you are just fucking lying. Remember all that "essential worker" stuff? When no one was allowed to go to work if they weren't essential?
He can’t relate as he has always been unemployed.
Don't Look, I own a company and I employ 4-5 workers + subs, depending. We were lucky that our local building department worked around the problem to keep doing inspections and processing permits and allow us to work.
So you were lucky, while others were fucked, so you don't care?
Of course I care soldier and so does the feds who have handed out bushels of money for workers and businesses to get through the challenge to our country. You could help by getting your shot and encouraging others to get theirs. Encouraging them not to, as most on this site do, is dragging this out, as well as killing others who mostly agree with them - or don't you care?
Tell us who governments closed down by edict other than restaurants and bars, and not the ones that struggled because no one wanted to go there (as would have been the case with restaurants and bars). Places like meat packing houses closed on their own due to infected workers. not the government. "Essential workers" were defined as priority for masks, vaccines, etc.
My father's former construction business was forced to close for six weeks by the NYC DOH, causing his former partner to default on assorted loan payments, including one to his estate. This policy was not unique.
You've also got all the single-property landlords saddled to horrific tenants that they're barred from evicting, which has a material drain on their finances.
And let's not ignore the tremendous financial strain caused on our medical system by CDC/CMS policies forbidding normal work for several weeks. The cutbacks in response affected thousands. Or the school closures' effects on dual-earner, non-laptop class households.
God, you ignorance of the facts is astounding. Also, if people decreased using these businesses on their own, there was no reason then for the government to force closures.
sarcasmic, very few businesses were "forced" to close by governments though their operations became very difficult.
Dude that's bull.
Tell me about it. Details
You've been given details multiple times. You ignore them,or accuse the poster of "spinning the numbers" and then you state, I will trust the experts more than your numbers.
So, you don't have any. I thought so.
All you need to do is look at the shortages over the last year to see how widespread the shutdown were.
Doofus, that was not shutdowns, that was willful staying home and out of businesses by Americans rightfully scared of getting really sick and maybe dying. Multiple studies showed this to be true. Other shortages were due to businesses expecting a slow down, not because they were forced to close. The slow downs in demand never came in construction and that is why many materials are still in short supply.
You lying sack of shit.
Essential workers ring any bells?
No one is arguing against vaccines, in a disease that kills almost exclusively in one age group, almost exclusively kills people with co-morbidities, for those with those risk factors.
Yes they are! Cripes, don't you read these posts, including yours?
The disease is highly contagious, and can fuck you up possibly long term even if middles aged or young with other - possibly unknown - problems.
Get your GD shot!
You have NO room to criticize anyone about literacy or reading comprehension when you ignore and run from the many, many contrary facts offered to refute your bullshit.
I don't run from anything salted, but I also don't feel a need to blow up your bullshit more than once.
Lots of people I know didn’t survive. And none of them died FROM Covid.
The "covid ball" is going where it was predicted it likely would go - a rapid surge of a predominant but less dangerous omicron variant cases with a rapid decline - and with no new variant on the horizon. Of course pulling back from restrictions is in order, just as it was in April 2021 when Biden and the CDC last recommended that move, but was quickly followed by the Delta Variant and ignorant anti-vaxxers slowing the progress of acquired immunity. Pretending this is a change in policy based on polling of ignorant citizens is a conclusion of ignorant journalists like the author of this article.
Fuck off you idiot.
Arf arf arf!
Breaking News:
mRNA vaccine-induced antibodies more effective than natural immunity in neutralizing SARS-CoV-2 and its high affinity variants
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-06629-2
I wonder if Dr. Joe Rogan will discuss this recent study on his esteemed platform.
I don't see why he wouldn't if he has a guest that knows something about it.
This is interesting, but there is more to immunity than antibodies. And lab studies like this don't really tell you what will happen in the real world, so we still need more RCTs for the vaccines (which should be ongoing in adults, not sure if they are) and more studies of the effectiveness of natural immunity.
I don't see why he wouldn't if he has a guest that knows something about it.
Big if.
Instead he'll have Dr. Malone on five more times. Why wouldn't he? He'll get way more listeners if he books Dr. Malone than if he books some completely mainstream scientist.
Keep lying about Rogan. It’s revealing.
When you attack a media personality who dares contradict your narrative you prove that you are a cultist. And Rogan has had on Doctors from both sides of the issue. The left has only focused on the ones that they disagree with to cancel him. Because he dares to not censor his guests by ideology. How dare he.
This behavior is authoritarian. Period. You are arguing for authoritarian type behavior. While you accuse the right of being authoritarian.
Thanks for the tip soldier
Also noted in the paper: antibody levels in vaccinated decayed significantly over a 6 month timescale, while natural immunity levels, while more varied in overall level, showed no tendency to decline over periods longer than 8 months. Figure 1c and d. Basically, the vaccines dump huge amounts of a specific antibody into your system for a short time.
Figure 2d:. The binding percentage saturated at around 1000 ng/mL. Suggests antibody concentrations higher than this may be excessive. Convalescent group had much of it's concentrations in this range. Vaccinated group was up over 10000 shortly after vaccination.
Plus, you would need longitudinal studies to confirm actual effects from the specific binding tested, and that the virus doesn't easily route around the specific binding. The proliferation of what used to be called breakthrough cases stands in favor of the hypothesis that the virus routes around.
They're reaching for anything... ANYTHING because their narrative has collapsed.
Diane you moron, your narrative is completely exposed, and I don;t mean with hints. I mean blown the fuck up.
In both red and blue states, new cases of covid, hospitalizations, and deaths are driven by the unvaxxed, even though they are a minority of people almost everywhere.
You’re going to miss it, aren’t you?
Run Forrest, Run! Your masks didn't work. Your lockdowns didn't work. Your vaccines failed to get you to zero covid, their efficacy falls off dramatically, the CDC lied, Fauci lied, school closures didn't work, closing businesses didn't work, none of it worked. It's over. You should leave quietly before you embarrass yourself further.
Diane you moron, no one ever said we would get to "zero" on covid with vaccines, masks, or social distancing, or anything for that matter. If you thought that you're just another spoiled American Princess who can't handle reality or the truth and thinking this is somehow proof of those who claimed it - well, who the fuck was that?
As to embarrassing yourself, you're too dense for that, but you've been warring against vaccines and now can reap the data; your unvaxxed are the new cases, the hospitalized, and the dead in greater numbers than the vaccinated, even though they are smaller part of the population.
You must be very proud of yourself.
Right, this is about Joe Rogan. And even if (which I doubt) that vaccine is more effective than natural immunity, you still fail to address why the united states refuses to acknowledge natural immunity.
Here is a very good breakdown on the natural immunity controversy as it relates to Dr. Malone on the Joe Rogan Podcast. What Malone gets right, what he gets wrong etc..
Oh, and your little parlor trick with the Dr. Rogan moniker is stupid and childish. Rachel Maddow, who claimed that the vaccine was 100% effective and you could neither transmit nor catch COVID once vaccinated, doesn't make me want to call her "Dr. Maddow", because in her defense, she was repeating what the director of the CDC said, and what the President of the United States said. The fact that Rogan had someone on his show who says things that go against the establishment grain (whose narrative if collapsing faster than the twin towers on 9/11) doesn't begin to suggest that Rogan is trying to pass himself off as a Doctor.
So why don't you triple mask up and just pause a bit before you embarrass yourself further.
Plastic masks provide the best protection.
Real tight. Cover nose and mouth. No gaps.
Of course, the high affinity variants; that's just saying it's most reactive to the versions it's most reactive to.
About 100 participants were in the study. No mention of sampling proximity to vaccination time or infection - critical bits of information on the relative stage of immune response - in included in methodology.
It is known the jab causes an immediate, huge surge of antibody formation in the first week after injection. It also is known most of these antibodies are not neutralizing and do not impede infection, but rather mediate it. Further research has clearly demonstrated jab antibodies fall precipitously at the third month, basically gone by the fourth.
Natural infections see a slower antibody buildup and depletion, remaining active for upwards of 8 months.
Twist that data set boyo.
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1494355504356855809?t=NbpiKfh75pwKcB4Nl2E2fA&s=19
One possible, explicit punishment for participating in a peaceful protest in Canada -- beyond freezing your bank accounts -- is that the state will take your pet and, after 8 days, declare it "relinquished" if other "arrangements are not made."
[Link]
This is why you have protests; it makes the government either deal with you or reveal itself to be the tyranny that it is thus preventing the mass from pretending otherwise.
Holy shit these people are definitely showing their true colors. I already had a damn low opinion of them but even I am surprised at the depths of their evil depravity. Amazing
And when a police dog dies it gets a parade.
Leftists fight that too. Why do they like making everybody miserable?
“Both involved a mix of largely symbolic acts, intended mostly to visibly demonstrate that something was being donem”
EDITOR! Can I get an EDITOR!
It was all unconstitutional.
The Constitution might not have been a death pact, but the Declaration of Independence certainly was. And, after that, the Continental Congress issued a declaration that soldiers in the Continental Army could not be forcibly immunized against smallpox. Washington ordered his troops to be inoculated anyway, but there is plenty of precedent in legislation that the Supreme Court has ignored up to this point.
Fuck you, Suderman. Fuck you very much.
studies exploring what might have happened using epidemiological models as counterfactuals.
Epidemiological models are not counter "factual". They are non-falsifiable horseshit.
They are falsifiable. When reality doesn't go the way the model said it would "global warming, covid" your model just got falsified.
This is lazy journalism. People understand how mitigation works. Yes, it appears silly to the unthinking why a server is masked while patrons are not, however, think for 2 more seconds and sentient people get it. It's not all or nothing. It's about mitigating or lowering the probability of getting sick. I suppose the let-it-rip people could be opposed to this, but to folks how just want to decrease risks here and there, maybe lower the curve, all these masking rules make sense. We have know from February 2020 how and why masks work. We never thought they were perfect and the government did not say so either. This strawmanning of the situation is getting tiresome. Lazy journalism with an obvious agenda.
"...I suppose the let-it-rip people could be opposed to this, but to folks how just want to decrease risks here and there, maybe lower the curve, all these masking rules make sense..."
You.
Are.
STILL.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
Fuck off and die, slaver
Your swiss cheese strategy pairs excellently with the whine.
Be sure to tip your masked serf.
“We shall have world government whether or not you like it. By conquest or consent.” – James Warburg, in the senate Foreign Relations Committee, February 17, 1950
● The divide and conquer strategies of the vaxxed vs unvaxxed, the masked vs the unmasked, the left vs right, the gay vs straight
● The weaponization of the corporate owned and controlled mass media against the world’s population
● The current and impending massive volume of world-wide vaccine damage and death
● The relentless push for poison vax mandates in order to force inject them into every man, woman, and child on the planet
● The rush to the requirement of mandatory vaccine passports which will quickly evolve into panopticon slave bracelets
● The influx of “migrants” being flown in to cities all around the country by the FBI in tandem with George Soros’s destroying of the rule of law by refusing to prosecute crimes with his bought and paid for AGs
● The coming hyperinflation as our politicians fully loot the treasury–the conventional last act of a failing empire
● And the announced incoming cyber attacks/total supply chain meltdown combined with the famine that will bring…
are all a deliberate controlled demolition of the current global order, executed for the purpose of bringing about the New World Order.
More here: https://tritorch.com/NWO
The best leak detection company in Riyadh
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adress
> studies exploring what might have happened using epidemiological models as counterfactuals. Essentially, it focuses on studies that use observational research rather than on studies comparing reality to public health simulations.
"Masks work! We have research that says they do!"
"What research?"
"We created a dummy of the human body that blows droplets of a simulated virus. We found much less of the virus in the room when the dummy was wearing a mask"
"But COVID spreads via aerosols not via droplets."
"Trust the science!"
"To provide an accurate answer to the wrong question?"
Establish the desired outcome.
Hypothesize a method to get it.
Fuck with the data.
Lie like hell when caught.
Thats Settled Scyinse.
FUCK JOE BIDEN
When I was in Grad school we were specifically warned not to use this type of methodology. In fact, that has long been the criticism of the social sciences and why many scientist didn't consider the social sciences to be actual sciences. Over a decade ago, those paying attention, would remember that there actually was a huge scandal in science over these types of methodologies. But because some of the studies called into question included climate change studies and environmental science studies, the mainstream media didn't cover it (and possibly due to the complexity of understanding methodology, modeling and statistics).
Public health, Human Nutrition and medicine overall were implicated in this scandal. But due to little or no public pushback, (in fact a number of the scientism worshipping media actually defended the methodologies), there appears that there was no incentive for them to change.
I don't think that in all cases it is a matter of intentionally screwing with the research, so much as group think, confirmation bias, and tunnel vision.
Early on (when a lot of these studies were designed), it was thought that COVID spread primarily via droplets. There probably wasn't much basis for it, other than wishful thinking because aerosols are virtually impossible to control, but at least their proposals were consistent with that belief. If you are dealing with a virus that harmlessly plops on the floor within a few feet, social distancing works, non air tight masks that redirect your breath mostly toward your forehead and feet work, those stupid plastic shields they were mounting to student desks work. If, instead, you are dealing with a virus that hangs out in the air for hours and is bounced around by air currents, then none of that works. And for some reason, even after it was determined that we were dealing with an aerosol rather than a droplet, there was too much inertia to stop fighting the wrong war. We should have been mobilizing an HVAC force the likes of which have never been seen before. Instead, we worked hard to enforce policies with all the effectiveness of a "no peeing" section in the pool.
These totalitarians hungrily applied regulation and restriction of freedom to demonstrate the value of government power and authority, given freely by people out of fear, fueled by media with the same totalitarian objectives:
"We have the answers ('science'). We have the solutions. If only you obey, all will be ok. Impressionable children in school, must be taught theses messages."
Now, with the "science" turning against them, they don't know how to back their foot off our throats, without their competitors saying "I told you so".
"How do we not let this give up the mid term election and continue to garner power?"
"What if we not only lost the war on COVID, but it was never really winnable?"
All I can say is, Welcome to the party, pal!
The most exhausting part of this article is Peter's continuing need to tout the vaccine. Maybe it prevented a few deaths, but it is less effective every day. This was also inevitable. COVID is a respiratory virus that mutates quickly - just like the common cold. Those mutations mean vaccines will lose efficacy as quickly as mutations can occur. Peter doesn't want to have to admit he may have been wrong, either. He's been the biggest cheerleader for COVID mitigation measures of all the members of the podcast.
As others have noted, the commenters have consistently been more aware of reality than the writers. The level of skepticism that is finally being expressed by the staff at reason was appropriate more than a year ago, and it would have been great to read something about the inevitable defeat in our War on Covid back then. Being a libertarian got pretty lonely for a while.
I've noticed Joe Friday's new tactic is no ignore your citations. If he can't ignore them, he will label them as misinformation. If you show him why his citations don't support his argument, he will label your posts as spin. He also has, after his spanking the last few days for stating unvaccinated are driving the outbreak, changed his wording and stopped using the inaccurate term driving. Of course, he will just call me a jerk now, even though he attacks people and calls them names all the time, but as soon as you use the same tactic, he can't handle it.
Gee, do they all use the same playbook?
That retired LAPD award-winning architect contractor is an increasingly shrill zealot who is impervious to heresy.
You forgot the War on Poverty as a quagmire also.
In a declared war you have a goal, defeat or capitulation of your enemy. You also always run the risk that you, yourself may be defeated or forced to capitulate.
The war on drugs, poverty, terror, COVID are unwinnable for the fact that there is no person or group of people you can defeat or surrender to. Also, the goals are realistically unobtainable at present or any time in the near future. Maybe in Stat Trek like utopias you may be able to beat these societal problems (but often even Star Trek storylines revolve around how poverty or out groups or new drugs still exist despite their supposed advanced and ideological society) but we must remember Star Trek is set centuries into the future, in a time that is much more scientifically and technologically advanced.
"...Also, the goals are realistically unobtainable at present or any time in the near future..."
Moonbeam declared CA would be 50% "sustainable" power at some date he pulled out of his ass along with that percentage. PG&E is struggling with the resultant higher cost at the same time they are blamed for the wild-fires largely caused by the lack of forest management by the CA and Fed governments, and which cause huge losses because of the people driven to live there by urban and suburban tax policies.
So we have the exact condition you mention, complicated by government policies looking almost like they were designed to prevent Moonbeam's fantasy numbers.
Or look at Germany, who may have been able to achieve their goals, if they hadn't decided to abandon nuclear power.
This is what I mean by a lack of utilitarianism in government thinking, especially progressive thinking, the sacrifice and ignore the long term risks of their policies for the short term benefits (and often don't even achieve those).
To take it back to vaccines. Myocarditis and pericarditis, even when treated early, has a high likelihood of damaging the cardiac muscles and long term cardiac problems. How many young people will be dealing with lifelong cardiac problems now, that were at little to no risk from the virus?
And as we know, cardiac problems reduce life expectancy, how much have we impacted their life expectancy in the future?
Not just life expectancy, but production value and required medical upkeep.
You think people are screeching about full hospitals now, give it time for these chronic conditions to mature - in a already largely sedentary populace. You can bet the open border boys are making plans.
Compare and contrast. From Johns Hopkins Hospitalization tracker.
Week of Feb 15, 2021, COVID ravaging the land:
Non COVID ICU beds occupied: 47881
COVID ICUE beds occupied: 15879
ICU beds occupied: 72%
Week of Feb 14th 2022, COVID is over:
Non COVID ICU beds occupied: 47792
COVID ICU beds occupied: 14480
ICU beds occupied: 77%
Now that we've met these new metrics and our ICU bed capacity is up 5% and covid beds occupied has dropped by ~1400 patients nationwide, we can all breathe a big sigh of relief, take off the masks and stop the socialist distancing.
Everything worked, masks worked, we've beaten COVID.
No we can't because everyone over the age of 6 months is vaccinated, to hell with their risk factors... Joe Friday.
Anyone suspect Joe Friday is actually a sock for POTUS?
And now back to the polls to see if it worked.
If Republicans would announce their support for footing the bill for more hospital beds, relief doctors and nurses, and, while we're at it, a sane and equitable healthcare system, I say we can compromise and call it a day.
In fact, I'm not terribly bothered, since all that's happening is Republicans killing themselves with stupidity. But if anyone's complaining about the pandemic lasting longer than it could have, everyone knows who to blame.
So you admit this was all political theater to force your opponents to cave into your demands? Because that is exactly what your posts says.
My bullshit demands are the same as there's: let's fix the pandemic situation.
Their solution is characteristically hysterical and mine is based on science.
No, yours isn't based on science. The science, see the John Hopkins meta-study for reference, demonstrates that your policies actually made things worse. But keep saying you are supported by the science. We've all seen the most recent science, and it says exactly what we were saying in spring of 2020. And for which agrees with 100+ years of public health science, that contradicted your policies. So, you ignored the science then, and are still ignoring the science now.
Agree to disagree.
No, you have chosen what to believe based upon ideology. And have chosen to ignore what doesn't support your beliefs.
The current CDC recommendations on masking and vaccinating run counter to the WHO, and a large number of European nations science agencies. They either haven't recommended vaccines for adolescents without underlying risk factors, or have approved only one shot, rather than three shots, for adolescents and young people due to the risk of myocarditis. Additionally, the WHO and most European Science Agencies recommend against school closures. These are not really new findings either, many of these recommendations are over a year old. So, it isn't just conservative Americans saying this, it's many of the most progressive European countries, and the WHO.
The WHO also is against lockdowns and travel bans. Basically, the CDC is the one most out of step with the rest of the advanced countries.
Ah, so it took me five minutes to figure out what you're going on about.
FOX News has been hysterically promoting this study by three economists (not epidemiologists, one of whom is affiliated with Johns Hopkins; the university does not back the paper). This study is widely seen as suspect because the authors misrepresent the very data on which their conclusion is based, and the authors of those studies do not share their conclusion.
Sorry you got had again, but I've told you what to do about that, and it's to turn the FOX News machine off.
The data doesn't require epidemiologists, actually the modeling used is far more in line with what economists use, especially as a lot of the data looked at was economic impacts. Fuck, I didn't even read the damn study on Fox News, I don't watch Fox News. I've seen no wide spread criticism of it, except from blatantly biased journalist, who didn't understand why the study was conducted by economists (as most of the data involved economic data). The data on mortality just requires simple statistical knowledge that any science discipline would be able to use.
As for one of the economists being associated with John Hopkins, that is natural. It would be surprising if one wasn't associated with John Hopkins, it would also be suspect if all the authors belonged to John Hopkins.
In my first peer reviewed publication, while at University of Idaho, I had three co-authors who were associated with University of Idaho and were animal scientist, another co-author who was an economist (because he knew statistics better than any of the us) and another co-author from University of Nebraska Lincoln. I also consulted with two uncredited scientist (one animal scientist and one plant scientist). The study was purely animal science, and there was no economic analysis or range science.
Your criticisms (and anyone who uses these as criticisms) are basically scientifically illiterate. Please also show how they misrepresented the data, or misinterpreted the data,from actual scientists, not journalists.
As for John Hopkins University not backing the paper, considering this is usually a political decision made by bureaucrats, not scientists, and it is not unusual for University bureaucracy to not back papers that they consider controversial. In fact it is all to common.
'This study is widely seen as suspect because the authors misrepresent the very data on which their conclusion is based, and the authors of those studies do not share their conclusion.'
I suppose you have proof of this, and is har do you mean the authors of those do not share their conclusion? The authors of some of the studies that meta-study used? Again, this is fairly common, when meta-studies show evidence that runs counter to the original some of the studies used in the meta-study. This is why we do meta-studies. In fact, I've never seen a meta-study ever done (and I've read hundreds of them over the last decade) that some of the original authors didn't disagree with the conclusion of the meta-study. Scientist are human, too, we hate when our work is disproven by others. Fuck, everything you listed is so fucking common in science, especially meta-studies, that it isn't considered valid criticism. In fact, it's fairly common, almost the rule, for meta-studies to be performed by disciplines other than the discipline doing the original work, especially if they are looking at compounding factors such as economics. It would have been stupid to have epidemiologists conducting an economic analysis.
Shorter version. It was an economics analysis, that happened to include some epidemiology data, why shouldn't it have been done by economists? You don't even fucking realize it was an economics study, do you?
I'm the one who first noted that it was an economists study.
My question is how economists do a study about lifestyle impact of a pandemic, including death, without consulting epidemiologists?
Because it's CATO, I'll dust off my old conspiratorial hat, because mine happens to be real. The CATO Institutes mission is to promote libertarian policy. It would never publish a study that contradicted its political agenda. That's reason enough never, ever to read it for science.
And in this case, it sent out a half-assed hatchet job, most likely for the very purpose of getting it play on right-wing media. You guys are such infinite suckers.
Let me guess, you got your widely criticized talking point from MSNBC, NYT, or Vox, because they have been the only ones saying this.
As for the some of the authors of the original studies used in the meta-study disagreeing with the meta-studies conclusions, fuck that is so fucking normal in science that I would be more surprised if it hadn't happened.
Here is a secret. Scientist are human, we are just as territorial, probably more egotistical, and probably have more fragile egos, than everyone else. We argue all the time, especially if our work is questioned or disproven by other work. I've been to more scientific conferences than I can count. And there is almost always a fight between the presenter and someone whose work is contradicted by the presenters work. I've seen it almost come to blows more than once. I have seen some of the top names in my field get up in the middle of a presentation and storm out in a very public manner, when their pet work was being questioned by another scientist. I've seen scientist end lifelong friendships and working partnerships because they disagreed over a studies findings. I have seen such hostile questioning from respected scientists that presenters have broken down in tears. I have seen well respected scientists completely ignore all the data, and state they are ignoring it, simply because it runs counter to their bias. And these aren't anomalies, I've seen behavior like this at almost every single scientific conference I've ever been to, regardless of the subject. Ive even seen a room full of scientists and science professors drive a speaker off the podium during questioning by their hostility.
Congratulations Tony, you just discovered scientists disagree and hate to be proven wrong as much as anyone else.
Please u jackass. EVERY person I know that got the mRNA shot got the Kungflu for a second time. Something is SERIOUSLY wrong with u. U r LITERALLY the enemy of the people. Just a gross ass f-ing clown show of a human.
The Phucko Knows
Week of Feb 15, 2021, COVID ravaging the land:
Non COVID ICU beds occupied: 47881
COVID ICUE beds occupied: 15879
ICU beds occupied: 72%
Week of Feb 14th 2022, COVID is over:
Non COVID ICU beds occupied: 47792
COVID ICU beds occupied: 14480
ICU beds occupied: 77%
The only person who should be footing the bill is fauci, because he paid for the creation of this virus.
Any small location that is or was overran would have been much better served for everyone, to use local mitigation strategies, targeted for at risk populations. The fact that the ICU count is so low, 77% bed occupancy is pretty fucking low, and those hospitals are likely running at a loss, is because of all the care that has been delayed for anything but COVID. Which means that we still will be dealing with the non-COVID health implications for years, if not decades.
Say your fever dreams are true and Fauci is the grotesque Bond villain FOX News has convinced you he is.
That changes your behavior why? You think dying of a preventable disease out of sheer stubbornness will foil his evil plans?
The chance, unless the poster is over the age of 64, with multiple co-morbidities, of them dying is 0.02%. Stop with the your going to die bullshit. This has been known almost from the start of the pandemic. I know you were hoping for dead in the streets, especially after people refused to follow your recommendations, but the fact is that outside of a small group of the population, most aren't at significant risk from this pathogen.
However, for the last two years, there has been 1,000,000 excess deaths related to the mitigation policies in the young, far exceeding the number of those in the same age group that died from or even died with COVID, according to the CDC. Good job! Fauci and his friends, with their bullshit recommendations (most of which were contraindicated by 100+ years of health science, and public health science) killed 1,000,000 young people needlessly.
I'm going to need a source on that.
CDC IFR data. Look at the demographic data. The IFR for people under 64, with no underlying medical conditions is 0.02%.
This one here, peer reviewed, breaks it down by age demographics, for 5 years of age increments.
https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/11/18/covid-infection-fatality-rates-sex-and-age-15163
This is a study from Denmark that adjusts for age and co-morbidities. The found an IFR of 3.36 per 100,000 (0.003%).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles
Excess deaths April 2020 to February 2021:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7015a4.htm
Quote from the conclusion:
These updated estimates indicate that approximately one half to two thirds of one million excess deaths occurred during January 26, 2020–February 27, 2021, suggesting that the overall impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on mortality is substantially greater than the number of COVID-19 deaths. These data can help guide efforts to prevent infection and mortality directly or indirectly associated with COVID-19. CDC’s NCHS continues to provide weekly data on excess deaths (1) to enable near real-time tracking of mortality associated with the COVID-19 pandemic.
Note that the impact of COVID-19 on excess deaths far exceeds deaths from COVID, this was from the period of the most drastic lockdowns and government ordered mandates.
You're reading the numbers wrong, but it's OK.
COVID accounts for 2/3 of the excess deaths. The other causes are not listed, but you helpfully have imposed a single cause, to make things simple: the lockdown did it.
Not accounted for, because it's a fact sheet, are the alternate universes in which we tested other scenarios: no shutdowns at all, the Australia system, and so forth, so you don't have anything to compare it to.
Yes, you, who advocated for policies that did almost nothing to slow it, and prolonged the outbreak. Like we told you back in March of 2020.
Who advocated policies? Moi?
Oh, my policy subscription, say if I were dictator, is so draconian that you'd have something to cry about.
You have argued for two years for every government mandate that came down the pipe. We told you that 100 years of science contradicted almost all of these policies, and now the real world science is proving us correct.
You can claim that no social distancing or masks would have had better outcomes, but you would be talking out of your asshole.
The John Hopkins University peer reviewed meta-study of 34 real world studies says exactly that, that mask mandates, social distancing and lockdowns did no good, And in some cases made things worse. You are ignoring the science.
Since you've been given the John Hopkins University research and even commented multiple times on stories Reason has done on it, yet you continue to deny that these mitigation strategies did nothing to reduce transmission, and in some cases made things worse (in fact this story you are commenting on references this and multiple other studies that demonstrate that the mitigation strategies didn't do any good) you are the one talking out of your ass and ignoring the science.
Yeah that meta-study is kind of a fraud.
Never take one study as gospel.
How is it a fraud? Explain. I've seen nothing indicating a fraud. And you would have a point if several other studies from other countries haven't found the same thing. And if this study also isn't backed up by 100+ years of science pre-COVID.
Declaring it a fraud, I would expect you to be able to show it is a fraud, with actual science not opinion pieces. Actual, peer reviewed publications that show fraud. Otherwise,you are rejecting it based upon ideology.
This is a self-described working paper, which means it hasn't been submitted for peer review. So it's not meeting your own standards.
Given its authors' ties to the CATO Institute, it is highly likely that the paper began with a conclusion it wanted to find and then sought out the evidence. That's not how science works either.
The evidence they find does not support their conclusions, as the authors of those papers have been happy to explain publicly.
If you had done targeted mitigation for the most at risk demographic, allowed people to continue to modify behavior voluntarily and once the vaccine was available, did targeted vaccinations of at risk populations, while sharing the rest of the vaccine with poorer nations, and allowed vaccines to be voluntary, you would have likely saved more lives, not overrun the hospitals, except in very isolated cases, and done far less damage to society as a whole. But no, you advocated and supported treating everyone the same, regardless of the actual risks. And we won't stop paying for the damage for decades now. You and your side did the worst thing possible, and you still insist it was correct, despite all the data showing you were wrong.
"targeted mitigation for the most at risk demographic"
I'm sure this sounds smart to you, but we did precisely that. We stowed old people in their homes and didn't let any of their family in for months. The virus got in and killed huge numbers of them anyway.
Then we vaccinated them as fast as possible, except for a large number of Republicans who refused. And those are the ones dying now.
Not even close to anything truthful in what you just posted. You locked everyone down, you vaccinated everyone or tried to. Deaths are the highest in the blue areas of the country. The vast majority of the elderly are still the largest percentage of deaths, at rates similar to before vaccines were available, and this despite the fact that the elderly have the highest vaccination rates, and if you had bothered to read the story, you would have seen that the majority of Republicans also are vaccinated.
The highest rate of unvaccinated in fact are blacks, a group that votes 80-90% Democrat.
It's like 61% white people vaccinated to 55% black people, a disparity that mirrors most of the the other social metrics. They also make up much of the population that is unvaccinated because they are hard to reach rather than because they are concerned about the vaccine's safety.
For the deniers, I think we've given up on arguing the social responsibility angle for getting vaccinated. Clearly they don't think they have any responsibility to their own society. Apparently they think the way to get their preferred policy is to form a mob and block public roads. I think social responsibility has left the conversation, and we're down to giving them what they want, apparently: to die for the stupidest cause imaginable.
There is no social responsibility argument to make, as it is a global pandemic. The fact that most third world countries still do not have access to vaccines, while we are giving multiple doses to the least at risk populations, actually means we are ignoring our social responsibility by vaccinating everyone. Also given the data on myocarditis and pericarditis in youths, which by the FDA approval process for the vaccine for 5-11 yo is actually higher than their risks from COVID in 2/3rds of the models, and the long term health implications, and the associated negative effects on their life expectancy, yet states like California are mandating the vaccine in all age groups, you are ignoring the social responsibility.
As to the myth that blacks have the least access to vaccines, that has been proven untrue for some time. In fact the people most likely to have difficulty accessing the vaccine would be rural, usually white people.
Can you say anything that is actually based in facts?
Given the current rate of vaccines, and the fact that natural immunity does exist, and the number of people who were infected, we should be at a point where, if this strategy was going to work, we would have enough immunity, that we wouldn't have had a spike for the last three months.
So, your social responsibility argument is bullshit,as is the premise behind it.
The reason we did have a spike for the last three months, is because we didn't share our vaccine, because you and the government decided we had to vaccinate everyone, regardless of risk factors, and then give them boosters. Even the fucking WHO is saying this. And if you look at where every variant since summer of 2020 has come from third world countries, our vaccine protocol has made absolutely zero sense. A single country can't vaccinate itself out of a global pandemic, of a highly contagious, low mortality, highly mutable virus, unless it closes all its borders, and bars all foreign trade (because those ships and planes delivering goods will be manned), and then only if we also vaccinate every single animal species that carries or hosts the virus. I told to that last summer. The only way this would have worked was if we had 90+% sterilizing effect from the vaccine. We didn't even come close to those numbers, and the effectiveness has decreased with each new variant.
The fact that you still believe that we could vaccinate our way out of this, as evidenced by your stupid, and counterfactual social responsibility remark, shows you don't even come close to understanding the science.
I already said social responsibility was off the table. The good Christian values folks demanded that.
But people in Australia, for example, have had a much rougher go of mitigation efforts, with vastly fewer deaths to show for it. So in the end it's really about how much death you're willing to tolerate in exchange for your very important civil right I'm sure.
I agree that we not only should but must vaccinate the poor of the world. I am glad you're for socialism on a global scale. Can I put you down for meetings, or...?
Turns out solving a global pandemic in 2022 is a complicated operation. We've never been here before. All we can do individually is our best. I'm not sure whining about hygiene measures and apologizing for psychopathic politicians is the best use of your time, but you do you.
We've never been here before? Really? You just ignored the history of the world. We've dealt with worldwide pathogens almost every decade. Many of them were far deadlier than COVID.
Vaccinating the world, isn't socialism, rather than vaccinating everyone in your own country regardless of risk factor. It is just basic public health and simple cost benefit analysis. The way the government has handled vaccinations is the most illogical way you could have done it. But it has not stopped you from blaming those evil, unvaccinated Republicans.
And my point is your understanding of social responsibility is completely wrong and misguided and based on ideology rather than cost benefit analysis.
It's a bit of a mote-in-the-eye situation. The US hoarded vaccines for itself to a degree (while also being the biggest donor of vaccines to the outside world). That could be considered wrong in some schools of moral philosophy. In the world where politics exist, how do you think it would have gone over if we maximized the utilitarian value of each vaccine and shipped all the first shipments to poor Africans? Would Republicans be satisfied by that course of actions, do you think? The country protected itself first. They should like that.
The log in the eye of Republicans is that they have used vaccine conspiracy theories to maintain the unthinking hysterical devotion of their cultists.
That their victims are themselves makes it certainly newer than anything I've ever seen. I've never seen people insist a disaster is a Jew conspiracy to their own actual deaths. Usually cultists only resort to mass suicide when their doors are getting busted in by the FBI. But do keep in mind the collateral damage.
Ignoring that the jab still would not have achieved your desired results in totalitariantopia, of course.
Considering myocarditis risks, I've never seen a cult so willing to die to prove their loyalty to government and corporations.
You know what puts people even more at risk for myocarditis? Covid.
Have you ever considered thinking for yourself instead of regurgitating nonsense you heard on talk radio?
You vaccinated them as quickly as possible, then instead of sharing our vaccine, you applauded decisions to vaccinate everyone else, regardless of risk factors, and then applauded mandates.
Then you crowed daily about Republicans going to die, when numbers went up for red states, then when those numbers went even higher in blue areas, you still claim it's Republicans dying. There is no data to support this supposition. They don't list deaths by political affiliation, but looking at demographics and voting patterns of those demographics, and geographic areas and voting patterns of those geographic areas, for the last two years, deaths are biased to areas that vote heavily Democrat, and that the groups demographically least likely to be vaccinated, are the most likely to vote democrat. Despite this, you will continue to state the problem is Republicans. Because, it isn't a matter of science for you, or facts, it's a matter of ideology.
For two years you've been screaming if we dare even question government diktats, that we're killing Grandma, and now the real world data is piling up, that not only did nothing the government mandated save Grandma's life, but it many cases it also killed their grandchildren, and those that it didn't kill, it harmed, harm that will take decades to undo, if we can even undo it. So, from all of us, who told you this shit back in Spring of 2020, let me tell you to fuck off. You haven't yet been right about one single fucking thing, Tony.
There's a very real partisan correlation in who is dying of COVID right now. NPR found that Trump-majority counties have triple the death rate of Biden-majority counties, and that rate increases with the percentage of Trump voters. It's actually a remarkable historical event.
Over what time range, and was it peer reviewed and since when is NPR a science based organization? Weren't you the one saying don't believe one study, but now you reference a single non-peer reviewed story (not even a study) from a known biased media site.
NPR is famously unbiased, so no worries there.
So do the big boy thing and take the data for exactly what it's worth. It's not zero, since it was reported by NPR. So you might as well go check it out for our purposes.
You never have to proportion your belief in something to beyond what the evidence says. Your "belief" can simply be a rational assessment of the relevant data.
This is where statistical and Bayesian methods come in to refine your belief.
Personally, I rarely bother with beliefs. I believe the floor beneath me won't collapse into a sinkhole, but even that mundane fact is not 100% determined, since sinkholes happen. Guess I'd probably walk my belief into it, unless I get relevant data before I take that step, such as using my eyes to see the sinkhole before me.
"NPR is famously unbiased..."
LOL
I took my daughter in Tuesday for upper respiratory symptoms, and made sure that they tested for influenza, as well as COVID (the SOP is to test for COVID). When I called the school to inform them she was going to be out with flu the rest of the week (it's a truncated week because end of trimester and they took Friday off for Presidents Day), the school secretary stated 'I'm surprised they tested for flu.'
Only because I requested it when making the appointment.
And we only decided to take her in because symptoms had persisted for three days, and weren't resolving and she had some gastrointestinal symptoms as well, and if she was positive for COVID, my wife would have to quarantine for her job.
We did it to be responsible, not out of any fear.
Also, we had to check in as inpatient to get the rapid test done otherwise we had to wait 3-5 days if we did it outpatient. And I didn't purchase an OTC test because my insurance covers it if I do it through a medical facility.
You don't need to apologize for being vigilant about your family's health. No political tribe that would say otherwise is worth being in.
I wasn't apologizing, but posting about the stupidity of testing only for COVID during peak flu season, unless it is asked for, and only using rapid tests in inpatient care. And showing when and under what circumstances you should test. Rapid tests are still short nation wide. Using them on asymptomatic patients and workers is wasteful of resources.
I've got three. I think Biden sent me two of them.
So, once again you just proved my point. You have three tests, aren't a medical facility (medical facilities are desperate for rapid tests, that is why the governor of North Dakota just had to use state funds to purchase from a private contractor, because North Dakota hospitals couldn't get enough rapid tests from the federal government).
So, you have three rapid tests, two sent to you by the feds, well our hospitals and clinics are critically short of them. And you think this proves that the government has not fucked up how they've distributed tests?
They probably have. They seemed a little late to the party. It's a dynamic situation, and politics are getting its oily tentacles into the crevices of all motivated action on the matter.
I thought I'd keep them for myself so I can test myself when I need to. That's why he gave them to me.
We already know you're a selfish totalitarian, Tony. You don't have to keep wallowing in it.
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1. There is and never was a virus. SARS-CoV-2 (allegedly based on the original SARS-CoV - which also has not been isolated) is not proven to exist in any lab anywhere in the world.
1a. The "disease" called "covid" is a broad and myriad list of symptoms ranging from mild to severe, with every single symptom able to be caused by other or non-biological means, including chemical and radiological - and, yes, even the loss of sense of taste and smell, hair loss and onset-pneumonia.
2. PCR tests are not diagnostics and cannot and should not be used as such.
2a. If you have no isolated 'virus' you cannot test for that virus with any tool anyway.
2b. Inventor of the PCR, Kary Mullis was adamant that his amplification machine could not be used in a diagnostic setting, but predicted that the medical and scientific establishment would, as they have, abuse the machine for various ends.
3. No public measure put into place was about science or safety, but rather compliance and fear, and the lower levels of government and business have propagated this fear successfully.
4. The so-called "covid vaccine" is not a vaccine. By definition it is a "medical device", more specifically a "modified ribonucleic-acid gene-drive technology system." That is not a 'vaccine'. The technology is experimental. Mass injection of a population with no control is not a "study", is not "scientific" and is not "proof of safety."
5. Death statistics of the years 2020 and the first quarter of 2021 showed no increase of morbidity across the population.
5a. Death rates, though unofficial, have increased since mass jabbing programs have commenced.
6. Ignoring adverse reactions, maiming and death as a result of the "covid vax" is not scientific, and because the mainstream does not want to or is paid not to investigate or have interest in doing so, has given rise to the biggest lie of our time.
6a. The 1976 swine flu vax campaign saw just 46 million people obediently taking a single “shot” before being halted altogether after over 4,000 Americans were injured or killed from that jab, resulting in an estimated 3.5 billion dollars liability being awarded for damages and the swine flu shot being removed permanently from the market.
6b. The numbers from various reporting agencies suggest at least 1.1 million adverse reactions (recorded) and over 23,000 deaths as a direct result of receiving one or multiple "covid shots."
6c. As stated by our own government in a 2011 report from the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (AHRQ), which is a part of the United States Department of Health & Human Services, in association with Harvard Pilgrim Health Care at Harvard University, tells us: “Adverse events from drugs and vaccines are common, but underreported. Although 25% of ambulatory patients experience an adverse drug event, less than 0.3% of all adverse drug events and 1-13% of serious events are reported to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Likewise, fewer than 1% of vaccine adverse events are reported. Low reporting rates preclude or slow the identification of “problem” drugs and vaccines that endanger public health.” (Courtesy: VAERS & AHRQ) The data being displayed here tells us that vaccine injuries, in technicality, should be multiplied by a factor of 100 to arrive at a truer number to express the reality of how many adverse events and even deaths are going unreported from this or any other injection! The potential that this jab is causing more damage than is being reported is a real and sincere fear.
6d. Consider the so-called “breakthrough” infections that people are reporting even after receiving multiple doses of the jab. Mind you, the media and governments are quick to tell you “breakthrough infection” isn't real. Just ponder, however, that the “breakthroughs” may actually be caused by the jab itself, as a reaction, and not a person actually having something called “COVID.”
Just thought I'd put this out there that nothing is going to change until we stop the fear.
Be the change you want to see in the world. - Ghandi
If you're wearing a mask or have gotten a jab, I just have one thing to say: baaaaaa. - Ted Nugent
and stop lying like you are...
Since some place we went from attempting to relieve how awful the pandemic is attempting to totally forestall it. Coronavirus Zero was never a sensible objective, substantially less an attainable one, and states attempting to imagine it was all together console the most psychotic that the public authority had the ability to ensure to save them, when it didn't.
I exited the Covid pandemic after the "two weeks do flatten the curve" nonsense and the CDC admitting it was not spread on surfaces but by our respiratory systems. I am retired so didn't have to put up with the rest of the crap from an employer, so considered myself luckier than most for doing that.
I work in one of the largest school districts in the country, and from what I've observed, all I can say is that we've seriously fucked up a generation of kids. Forced social isolation, the farcical "digital learning", and a constant barrage of fear, has taken a huge mental toll on these children. Sadly, no one gives a shit because of their willingness to follow their party line rather than "following the science" as they so smugly like to put it.
*edit* Sadly, no one gives a shit because of their willingness to follow their party line rather than "following the science" and observing what's in front of them. Who are you going to believe, my party or your lying eyes?
Were observing people in the political left that would kill these children if they could.
Abortionists demanding the right to murder BORN infants have no end to their evil.
They are utter psychopaths.
If Suderman says it's time to move on you know that means it's time to save the Democrats.
"At this point, what does it even matter?"
Ha! So Jake tapper was on CNN next with their Stockholm syndrome suffering staff Dr, outraged... OUTRAGED that the Cdc had misrepresented covid hospitalization data, conflating WITH covid VS FROM covid. Sorry, now I'm gonna be like Jules from pulp fiction. You ain't talkin' your way outta this shit.
You and your network have been pushing the branch covidian gospel for the last two years, excoriating anyone who questioned these numbers as nothing more than trump supporting racist conspiracy theorists and now that the narrative is collapsing faster than the twin towers on 9/11, NOW we get outraged journalistic commentary on how unacceptable all this is.
No, no Jake tapper. You're not talking your way outta this.
The Herby meta-analysis (you ID it by Herby's Johns Hopkins affiliation to make look official) is junk. Hence, your whole argument fails.
Glad to here your mother is better.
Monclonal antibodes like Regereon (sp?) cost about $2100 a pop vs $26 to the government for vaccines.
Yes, the states can and do mandate vaccines, including places like Texas and Georgia. No vaccine, no school, maybe no university, and so on.
Very small numbers Dizzle, but yes you're right and Biden's proposed mandates including exemptions .................... dumbshit.
And there's evidence that constant boosters fucks with your immune system.
Natural immunity to covid wanes also Dizzle, so a shot is still recommended for those with it.
That's false Dizzle. It has been widely reported and agreed to from all authorities - including that evil mastermind Fauci - that Omicron was:
1. Highly contagious
2. Would take off like a rocket
3. Peak and peter out fast
That's what it did in S Africa and has dome everywhere here. We didn't know if another variant would show up behind it but there was speculation that one of significance would not, and so far so good, As in April 2021, the loosening of restrictions could and in many places where the numbers real down (like states where it hit 1st like NY) it should follow.
Probably not Dizzle, but we'll see. Beats ending up in the ICU on a respirator, right?
PS Can you leave out your sexual fantasies about Jeff? TMI
And the vast majority of the population isn't at risk of dying or even having severe infections from COVID and this was known by April of 2020, at the latest.
Conspiracy.
Prison. Biden first.
FUCK JOE BIDEN
They can only mandate vaccines for school with a large number of exemptions for medical, religious and conscious reasons. No state has been able to defend mandates for school that don't allow these exemptions.
There is no number that they have to allow exemptions. They can't say "oh, to many have claimed religious exemptions, therefore we won't allow yours." And by data out of the last measles outbreak in Seattle, the percentage of exemptions exceeded 10% in Seattle public schools.
The implementation of lockdowns or their lifting will have nothing to do with emergence of a new variant. The fact that you believe it will demonstrates your complete lack of understanding of communicable diseases.
And just because a new variant hadn't been identified yet is proof of nothing.
The similar path of Omicron in states with and without mandates, demonstrates that the mandates have done nothing to curb Omicron.
You obviously didn't read his citations. Just repeating what you've been told. And even if true, if the level of protection lasts significantly longer than the vaccine, then mandating vaccines for the previously infected should not come close to using the same protocol as those who weren't infected.
This is especially true in the young who have had a much greater chance of adverse reactions, that increases with each dose, per the CDC and FDAs own numbers. At best, given the data above, a booster at one year would be the best method to follow.
And that only in the most at risk populations, given IFRs in the rest of the population.
By resorting to the most severe but least likely scenario, you completely undercut your arguments.
This is well established, panic driving doesn't actually work to change behavior for the majority of humans. But you progressives keep using it. It is almost like you don't want to change behavior but would rather just feel superior.
Whoop de doo soldier.
What percentage of our population have opted out for medical or religious (otherwise known as "Get out of jail free") reasons?
Seattle and the entire NW coast is home to left wing health crackpots who fight GMOs and vaccines. How many in Bakersfield and Birmingham?
"Are you feeling lucky punk?"
Yep.
Caught Covid. Sniffles.
I didn't say lockdowns would have anything to do with the appearance of new variants, nor do I believe that. I also made no claims about whether significant new variants would or would not appear.
And yes, the similar path of the omicron variant in different states is a fact I have been highlighting over and over again - in both read and blue states, new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths are being led by the unvaxxed, even though they are a minority almost everywhere, but especially in blue states.