Shooting the Guns You Can't (Realistically) Own at the Gun Industry's Range Day
If you want to own a machine gun, it's probably not going to happen anytime soon—even if you make a decent living and have never committed a crime.
Very few people in the U.S. have had the experience of firing a fully automatic firearm, since even in a country awash in hundreds of millions of legal firearms, only a few hundred thousand are capable of full-auto firing. For the average person to own one requires extensive government paperwork and fees on top of the artificially inflated five- or six-figure price tag for the guns themselves. Realistically, it's not possible for all but the richest shooters.
SHOT Show, the world's biggest gun show, descended on Las Vegas in January after a pandemic-induced year off. Before the buyers scurried around the floor of the Venetian Expo trying to secure stock from salesmen with fewer offerings than in years past, many made their way to a massive outdoor range to test out the offerings. I went along with them.
The desert range was more deserted than usual thanks to many of the biggest gun companies being scared off by the omicron COVID variant. The ammo shortage was evident too, even at the industry's own trade show. What used to be 20- or 30-round demos were cut to five or 10.
A few of the full-autos were there as demos for law enforcement or military buyers who are, as is often the case with gun laws, exempted from the full-auto ban enforced against everyone else. Many were meant in essence to say to normal gun enthusiasts, "Hey, look at this cool gun. Don't you wish you could own this? Anyway, when you're done with the fun gun, here's what you can actually buy."
Some available to shoot are standard full-auto versions of guns that are also popular in their semi-automatic configurations—the cousins of guns like the AR-15, AK-47, or Ruger 10/22 but with that one extra position on the safety selector which lets you fire multiple rounds with one trigger-pull and thus turn the fun up to 11. Don't underestimate how fascinating a full-auto 22 LR can be to shoot—it's like a grown-up version of those full-auto BB guns you use to blast out the paper with the red star at the boardwalk.
Then you get into the belt-fed guns: higher-caliber machine guns designed to be fired from a bipod or tripod. These get more fun the faster the rate of fire and the bigger the round–though, in my opinion, a bigger round beats a faster rate of fire. The Minigun is hell of a lot of fun for the half second or so it takes to spit 100 rounds, but it can't match what it's like to fire John Moses Browning's Ma Deuce in an enclosed range—the concussion of every round fired rattles everything in you.
But the short-barrel rifles provide the special thrill of shouldering a machine gun, and that's how you experience the full force of what a weapon does as you hold down that trigger and blow $50 of ammunition in the blink of an eye. Shorter barrels have the added effect of making the muzzle blast bigger and much closer to you, amping up the splash of fire and heat you get to feel.
A short-barrel AR without a flash suppressor, though? That may be my dream full-auto. While my writing about guns professionally often affords me the opportunity to shoot them, a writers' salary means I'll likely never be able to actually own one of those guns.
That's because of the National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA).
The NFA was passed in response to the crimes of famous gangsters such as Al Capone, John Dillinger, and the aptly-named Machine Gun Kelly. It was an early 20th century attempt to ban certain kinds of guns and accessories by registering and taxing them out of existence. It instituted a $200 tax—over $4,000 in today's money—on all silencers, short-barreled shotguns and rifles, and any gun capable of fully automatic fire.
The government then created a registry overseen by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) to enforce the tax—a bureaucracy that can take upward of nine months to process an application. Anyone who does register a machine gun with the ATF must also obtain the agency's approval before crossing state lines with it.*
The $200 tax stamp is more manageable today since Congress didn't pin its cost to inflation. Registration of NFA items such as silencers have skyrocketed to more than 2.6 million as of last year. But a 1986 amendment has prevented the same outcome for machine guns.
That year, the Senate attached a machine gun ban to the Firearm Owners Protection Act. Newly produced machine guns can no longer be sold or transferred to civilians so that law effectively permanently restricted the available pool of transferable machine guns to a few hundred thousand.
The ATF currently reports having 741,146 machine guns in their registry. However, a 1994 Department of Justice (DOJ) report shows only around 240,000 registered machine guns nearly a decade after the new sales ban went into place. That suggests more than half a million of the registered machine guns aren't actually transferable to normal civilians and are likely owned by law enforcement agencies or gun dealers with special licenses (some of whom will rent them out to civilians on a per-shot basis).
Severely restricting the supply has naturally sent the price of machine guns into the stratosphere. It's extremely difficult for a civilian, even one with no criminal record and the patience to go through the monthslong registration process, to buy any fully automatic gun. The very cheapest ones on the open market go for around $10,000. A gun that's little more than a metal tube and a spring which initially cost a few hundred dollars to produce can go for over $13,000.
A civilian can build a semi-automatic AR-15 from parts for around $600. A fully-automatic M-16 or M-4, which shares nearly the same design but has a different fire-control mechanism starts at around $25,000. Prices only go up from there. Thus a gun that costs a few hundred dollars to build can sell for as much as a luxury car or even an exotic supercar.
As with most gun regulations, there are workarounds to get something like the full-auto experience without spending your life savings or registering with the government. Recently-banned bump stocks help a shooter harness the recoil of a round going off to more quickly press a semi-automatic's trigger and fire rounds in much quicker succession than traditional shooting methods. Binary triggers accomplish the same effect by using both the pull of the trigger and its release to fire a round.
Each method gets closer to the firing rate of slower full-auto guns, and bump firing can even be accomplished without a stock or any specialized equipment. But neither is as controllable or, ultimately, as fun as true full-auto fire.
Explaining how fun full-auto guns are to shoot isn't likely to convince many gun-control activists they ought to be made legal. The idea that a free citizenry should have access to the same weapons its soldiers do, at least at the individual level, is even less amenable to most who favor stricter gun regulations.
But how much good, even in gun-controller terms, has the ban on full-auto guns accomplished? That's a lot harder to answer. I'm not aware of any data that suggest many crimes were committed with registered machine guns between 1934 and the 1986 ban. There also isn't great data on how often machine guns, or their workaround devices, are actually used in crimes since that ban.
The ATF doesn't report how many crimes are committed each year with registered machine guns. Though the DOJ reported only .1 percent of traces in 1994 involved machine guns and "other" guns, even that report doesn't separate illegally unregistered machine guns from legally registered ones.
Similarly, the ATF told the Washington Free Beacon in 2017 there are only about 44 prosecutions per year involving silencers. This has led some within the ATF to call for removing the sound-suppressing devices from the NFA's purview. Ronald Turk, an associate deputy director at the ATF, wrote in a 2017 internal memo leaked to the press that "given the lack of criminality associated with silencers, it is reasonable to conclude that they should not be viewed as a threat to public safety necessitating [National Firearms Act] classification, and should be considered for reclassification under the [Gun Control Act]." Since machine guns appear to be even less commonly used in crimes than silencers, his logic could be applied to them as well.
That logic can cut both ways, though. If NFA detractors can argue the lack of crime committed by those weapons is proof that the law only burdens the law-abiding, NFA boosters can say that lack of crime is proof the law's regulations work very well and should be extended to other guns such as the semi-automatic AR-15 or perhaps even every gun. That's despite the fact that rifles outside the NFA, which AR-15s are only a subset of, are already rarely used in crime: Recent FBI reports indicate only about 300 of the 15,000 or so murders per year involve a rifle. NFA proponents would surely argue that number could be brought down even further if fewer people owned them with far greater government oversight.
Machine guns are not commonly used in crimes, especially ones that aren't registration violations. But they have been used in some high-profile acts of mayhem, including a pair of robbers who used ARs and AKs illegally modified for fully automatic fire in a failed 1997 bank robbery attempt in North Hollywood. The two fired 1,100 rounds and injured 20 people before being killed by police.
Full-auto workarounds were also involved in one of the most high-profile shootings in American history. A shooter used ARs equipped with bump-fire stocks to kill 58 people at a 2017 music festival in Las Vegas. It is the only instance of bump-fire stock being used to commit a crime and it's not clear how much bump firing actually added to the carnage, but it tarnished the devices enough that Donald Trump's administration outlawed not only their sale but also their possession.
Binary triggers and other workarounds are very likely to attract further attention during the Biden administration, which is already taking a more aggressive approach to regulating devices that operate in the NFA's gray area. President Joe Biden is currently working toward unilaterally banning pistol brace devices the ATF used to say complied with the NFA, but now say are designed to circumvent the law's ban on short-barreled rifles; millions of those devices must be either registered or destroyed if the proposed rule is adopted.
So, while they lack a treasured place in a crook's arsenal, If you want to own a machine gun or even something remotely like it, it's probably not going to happen anytime soon—even if you make a decent living and have never committed a crime.
If you can manage to get an invite to the gun industry's next range day to experience them, this shooter advises you: Definitely take it.
*CORRECTION: This story has been corrected to remove the claim that registered machine gun owners must submit to random ATF searches. That requirement only applies to licensed dealers.
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“shall not be infringed”
Oh go away. That is the most uselessly overworked expression in the Constitution. Hoplophobes come right back with the argument the the “right to keep and bear arms” is already limited: prisoners can’t have arms, infants can’t have arms, the mentally ill can’t have arms. Therefore no one is infringing the RKBA.
Until you can debate that, you are just repeating words you don’t understand.
How about: “Fuck around and find out”.
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Until you can debate that, you are just repeating words you don’t understand.
Okay. I’ll bite:
Former felons who have completed their sentences and are now free people again should be free to own firearms (and vote, and all the other freedoms which free people are entitled to).
Still an infringement. Unless you happen to consider ‘self-evident truths’ and ‘all men are created equal’ to be a reciprocity pact among (de rigueur) humans or citizens and ‘cruel and unusual punishment’ to be a guidance against mistreating subhumans or second-class citizens.
But then, when someone says “shall not be infringed” they’re talking in good faith, not saying Paddock should be able to shoot civilians concert venue uninfringed. And the opposition doesn’t even care about putting on the heirs of good faith, calling second-class citizenry oppressive while insisting of a police-own-guns-civilians-don’t policy and arguing against the very reciprocal conditions their opponents generally agree with (i.e. I don’t know a lot of gun owners who would insist that inmates have rights to guns).
Shall not be impinged.
AK for the win!
“Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude shall exist, except in girl-bullying Texas!”
I want the tank/ armored vehicle drive while firing the main gun at a nice static target.
Why not an Apache gunship?
The city of San Jose (California) just cleared the way to tax people on their Constitutional rights. Time to roll out the mandatory insurance premiums on book purchases (books can be dangerous), church attendance (see history) and public defenders (in case the state gets sued later).
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/san-jose-gun-law-insurance-annual-fee/
ideas can also kill see Trumps insurrection speech lets insure/tax all rights to make sure they are used correctly.
I wonder ho many criminals will bother to insure their guns
Require speech insurance in case anyone breaks anything afterward.
Mandatory Twitter insurance before being allowed to be a twit.
What about a speech permit?
Houston’s asset-forfeiture cops are rushing to insure their own lives. But the Statehouse legislators who gain from Landover Baptist prohibition laws understand that “there are plenty more where those came from.”
The taxes collected get donated to anti gun groups. They are taking gun owners to force them to pay for speech they disagree with.
The North Hollywood incident was a perfect example of the stupidity of the anti-gun crowd. The bank robbers didn’t give a damn about the law. They converted their weapons to full auto and wore body armor. The Police on the other hand had their rifles removed from their cars because the anti-gun crowd convinced people that the police didn’t need them. So as a result the first police to show up had nothing that would penetrate the body armor. The police actually went to a gun store and borrowed hunting rifles.
If I had worked at that store, I’d have been tempted to ask for a permit first.
Background check and 7 day waiting period.
*sips coffee*
[Lumbergh voice]Yeah, I’m gonna need you to come back in about year and reapply after the FBI has their NICS database set up so we can run a background check. And then, if you pass, come back five days later to actually pick up the gun.[/Lumbergh voice]
Not to mention the misunderstanding of the ‘riddle of steel’. It’s not the sword, it’s the man who wields it. The robbers fired an estimated 1100 rounds and killed no one. The officers fired 650 rounds and killed 2. Superior firepower and armor lost.
650 rounds for 2 hits is still pretty pathetic, especially considering the tactical advantage the cops had, being able to remain in a fixed position, while the robbers had to attempt to move to make their getaway
There were more than two hits. There were at least two hits that penetrated one robber, the other suicided. The majority of those 650 rounds were to provide cover so that the injured could be moved to a place of safety. That’s about all you can do with just shotguns and 9mm against body armor.
If you think 650 rounds is bad look at how many rounds it takes the military for one kill.
Yeah, prior to about WWI (when combat largely changed from closed-order to open-order), weapons and weapon design stopped being about primarily killing people and more about being being *very* persuasive about herding people. Even in the Gangster Era, you can read about people regularly absorbing multiple shotgun blasts (at range), .45 ACP, and even BAR rounds, sans armor, and dying hours later and miles away, in bed. The distinction between ~700 grains, at ~1000 fps, delivering ~3000J of KE and ~70 grains, at ~2500 fps, delivering ~1500J of KE is pretty clear.
This guy gets it.
I believe he also used to be the place kicker for the New England Patriots.
fucking loved John Smith and his left foot.
dude was on Megyn Kelly’s show today talking guns. great guest.
>>famous gangsters
hell yeah. shouldn’t have gone to that movie.
COVID has killed my soul …
https://www.wdrb.com/news/nearly-25-000-turn-out-for-knob-creek-gun-ranges-final-machine-gun-shoot/article_4452a548-2af9-11ec-83f4-a3a1f6190fd9.html
A few years ago I was lucky to get in on the local sheriff’s office community outreach which included allowing a mag dump of a fully automatic weapon. Truth be told I was not that impressed. But then again I am basically a bench rest long range precision rifle shooter and as conventional wisdom says it is hard to get them to even stand up.
All that aside I have always wondered about the wisdom of banning suppressors. Several of my international friends point out that they are really a safety device designed to reduce potential hearing loss due to the noise of a round being fired. As for their use in crime you can go on facebook among other internet sights and buy parts to allow an “automobile gas cleaner” to function as a suppressor. Not to mention as every hood rat knows a two liter soda bottle filled with cotton and attached with duck tape makes a great one time use suppressor at a price anyone can afford.
Too many silly laws.
But let’s not vote libertarian and repeal a bunch of them. That would be extremist.
So, while they lack a treasured place in a crook’s arsenal, If you want to own a machine gun or even something remotely like it, it’s probably not going to happen anytime soon—even if you make a decent living and have never committed a crime.
Disagree. Forced reset is pretty damned close, is relatively well within reach, and isn’t illegal… yet.
Some gun ranges have rentals. And some of those have full autos for rent. You pay for the ammo. One doesn’t need a SHOT Show invite to indulge.
Good primer on restricted firearms.
Suppressors are entirely legal around my place (and indeed actively encouraged as a Health n Safety thing) and don’t seem to have encouraged criminal behaviour.
Of course on the other hand some Australian c**t stole all my AR15s and other fun toys. All my semi-autos are now rimfire (.17WSM for the win).
You mean you didn’t lose them in a boating accident?
That is a tragic boating accident. Gotta keep your story straight.
Feds: “That was no boating accident!”
For a while now, I’ve categorized both Australia and New Zealand as a tragic boating accident.
How times change. Rimfire repeaters were once considered just Confederate cause for killing yankee prisoners of war caught with them. The Articles of Confederation contained no second Amendment rights for individuals. They only stipulated well-regulated government militias. Does that remind anyone of what both looter parties want today?
Does that remind anyone of what both looter parties want today?
“Both looter parties are Southern Democrats!”
Very cogent in the usual ‘Bowf Sidez!’ fashion.
“Time comes I need one sir, there’ll be plenty of them lying on the ground.” We were soldiers
“If you want to own a machine gun, it’s probably not going to happen anytime soon—even if you make a decent living and have never committed a crime.”
Uh…right…yeah! I definitely don’t own any machine guns.
Now I have a machine gun too. Ho ho ho.
“President Joe Biden is currently working toward unilaterally banning pistol brace devices the ATF used to say complied with the NFA, but now say are designed to circumvent the law’s ban on short-barreled rifles ….
Sawed-off rifles and shotguns were targeted by the 1934 NFA to punish criminals caught evading state handgun restrictions by cutting long guns (rifles and shotguns) down to concealable size.*
The pistols used with arm braces are sold as pistols subject to all federal and state restrictions on handguns or concealable weapons. (Yeah, I know, the original intent of Congress and the rhetoric used to sell public acceptance of these laws does not count. All that counts is the letter of the law mendaciously parsed.)
Putting an arm brace on an AR pistol purchased as a handgun complying with federal and state handgun laws (or even putting an actual shoulder stock on a C96 “Broomhandle” Mauser pistol purchased as a handgun), is not sawing off a rifle to make a concealable weapon to evade handgun restrictions.
Oh. There was no BATF in the 1930s. The national firearms registry was maintained by the Internal Revenue Service, Alcohol Tax Unit (formerly the Bureau of Prohibition until the repeal of the Volstead Act). ATU became the Alcohol Tobacco Tax Division ATTD, then the Alcohol Tobacco Firearms Division, and became Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms BATF in 1972.
____________
* One of the things I noticed about the Washington County Sheriff’s Office wall of confiscated crime guns was the number of rifle and shotguns sawed-off to make concealable weapons. From growing up during local alcohol prohibition 1953-1968 I was aware that street criminals it that often to evade the restrictions on the handgun application for permission to purchase (with up to 15 days for the Sheriff or Chief of Police to do a background check on the purchaser of a handgun). But seeing that wall was impressive; apparently it was more common than I believed. I did not have to ask if the people whose gunswere taken had applied to BATF and filed a Form 1 with $200 for a tax stamp for the returned registration form. SCOTUS as ruled registration of an NFA firearm violates a criminal’s Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination.
Herbert Hoover favored a ban on short shotguns after customs agents murdered Henry Virkula from behind–but in front of his wife and kids. This was okay, because the agents thought they smelled beer, a deadly addictive narcotic legal in nearby godless Canada in 1929.
Easier to get an FFL and SOT and own “dealer samples” than to get a machine gun as a private citizen
IANAL, but as a public service announcement, if you have ACCESS to an AR-15 and are in possession of any full auto parts of the fire control group (trigger, hammer, disconnector, selector, or auto sear, but not the bolt carrier group), you are committing a felony which will get you federal prison time if you do not have a Tax Stamp to possess a full auto weapon.
Tell that to the Branch Davidians… but not before having agents protected by secret ballot from prosecution kill every man, woman and child for hundreds of yards in all directions. Taxes also justified King George sending troops to murder. We surely need more of those, right?
If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns. Applies to full auto weapons as well. Beyond military, law enforcement applications, I can see no reason for a citizen to have a full auto weapon. Well, one reason- they can be fun to shoot if you can afford the ammunition- one can expend several hundred rounds pretty quickly.
The NFA doesn’t prohibit ownership, it provides an illusion of control for full auto weapons and a somewhat useful method of increasing the cost of criminal actions. Like the “War on Drugs”.
Still, it is my understanding that it is less expensive in time and money to get or convert to a full auto weapon illegally than take possession in accordance with the law.
I have no interest in owning one, so I can’t speak with authority. In the past, I have put thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of rounds down range in the military, so I have a clue. I don’t see the necessity as a civilian, I don’t consider the possibility of being violently attacked by a group of people very likely. Not saying I don’t consider the proposition as domestic terrorism increases.
I have a dozen or so functional semi-autos and a CCW, thank you very much. I carefully consider tactical situations, exits, wherever I go.
The whole point of individual rights to keep and bear arms is the chilling effect it was presumed to have on politicians eager to send swarms of sumptuary tax collectors to confiscate our assets… or of bounty hunters to try to recapture freedmen and women. Nobody expected an endless swarm of looters emboldened by qualified immunity to act as kamikaze suicides eager to enforce the dictates of national socialist eugenic prohibitions “if necessary at the cost of their lives.”
Suppressor and machine wait times are now averaging 10 months. The ATF has recently started accepting the required form 4 electronically. That offers hope that the wait times can be reduced.
The cheapest way to get into full auto is to buy a World War Two bring back registered submachine gun. A Sten or a Reising or a Grease Gun are only about $8,000 to $9,000. These don’t how many way to easily attach a vertical for grip or a red car, so I had a choice is to buy a Mac 10 or Mac 11 submachine gun. Can you spend another couple of hundred more on an upper made by a company called Lage.
This turns an uncontrollable bullet hose into a modern gun with rails for grips and dots.
Lage makes a different upper for the Mac that converts it into a 5.56 full auto carbine.
For another $3,000 on top of your $8,000 you now have a gun like our troops have.
It was Trumps’ ban on bump stocks that drove me out of the Republican Party and to the Libertarians
https://imgur.com/gallery/AzKO7hY
Too bad God’s Own Prohibitionists are alienating voters by bullying girls, robbing and killing heads to please televangelists, liquor and pharma corporations. The Nixon anti-Libertarian law makes us less able to help rednecks with green teeth even if we wanted to. They are endangering 2A rights by aiding mystical bigots who rob and arrest people. Commie Dems view all this with whoops of joy.
Where is the edit button?!
These don’t have any easy way to attach a vertical foregrip or a red dot
A better choice is to buy a Mac 11 submachine gun. You then spend another couple of hundred more for a Lage upper.
So, while they lack a treasured place in a crook’s arsenal, If you want to own a machine gun or even something remotely like it, it’s probably not going to happen anytime soon—even if you make a decent living and have never committed a crime.
People that make a decent living and have never committed a crime can buy all kinds of guns that aren’t full auto. But having never committed a crime (or rather, having never been convicted of a crime) doesn’t mean that a person never will. The increase in the murder rate over the last two years has coincided with a large increase in gun sales. And a doubling of the number of guns recovered after being used in crimes that were purchased legally not long before being used in a crime.
Stephen Gutowski states plainly that the reason he would prefer full auto weapons be more readily available is that they are fun to shoot. The 2nd Amendment and self defense have nothing to do with it. I’m perfectly fine with my 9mm handgun and a couple 22LRs. I have no need to experience the pleasure of shooting a heavy machine gun capable of literally tearing a human being in half.
How about eliminating the ATF, more correctly the BATFE, from having anything to do with firearms law and or the enforcement thereof since they have historically screwed the pooch therewith.