Don't Believe OSHA When It Threatens To Turn Its Rescinded Vaccine Mandate Into a Permanent Rule
That process takes a long time, and the result would face the same legal objection cited by the Supreme Court.

Today the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) officially withdrew its "emergency" vaccinate-or-test mandate for private employers, acknowledging that the Supreme Court's January 13 stay blocking the rule's enforcement means it has no realistic chance of surviving judicial review. At the same time, OSHA said it may yet seek to impose a similar mandate through the usual rule-making process.
That is quite unlikely to happen, both because of the time that process requires and because of the Supreme Court's reasoning in granting the stay. Given these realities, any talk of turning the rescinded "emergency temporary standard" (ETS) into a permanent rule should be viewed as little more than a bureaucratic face-saving gesture.
OSHA's rule, which it published on November 5, demanded that companies with 100 or more employees require them to be vaccinated against COVID-19 or wear face masks and submit to weekly virus testing. Because the agency presented that edict as an ETS, it avoided the usual rule-making process, but it had to show that its regulations were "necessary" to protect employees from a "grave danger" in the workplace.
"Although OSHA is withdrawing the Vaccination and Testing ETS as an enforceable emergency temporary standard," the agency says in its Federal Register notice, "OSHA is not withdrawing the ETS to the extent that it serves as a proposed rule under section 6(c)(3) of the [Occupational Safety and Health] Act, and this action does not affect the ETS's status as a proposal under section 6(b) of the Act or otherwise affect the status of the notice-and-comment rulemaking commenced by the Vaccination and Testing ETS."
OSHA is referring to the dual functions of an ETS: The regulations take effect immediately and last for six months, but they also serve as a proposed rule that is supposed to be finalized by the end of that period. That statutory timetable seems utterly unrealistic, however, given how long it typically takes for OSHA to issue an ordinary standard, a process that requires not only advance notice but also opportunities for public comment and hearings.
In 2012, the Government Accountability Office examined 59 "significant" standards that OSHA issued between 1981 and 2010. It found that the average time between initial consideration of a standard and its promulgation was nearly eight years. Even after OSHA published a notice of proposed rule making in the Federal Register, an average of more than three years elapsed before the standard was finalized.
According to a flowchart that OSHA published in 2012, the Congressional Research Service noted in a 2021 report, "the estimated time from the start of preliminary rulemaking to the promulgation of a standard ranges from 52 months (4 years, 4 months) to 138 months (11 years, 6 months)." After a notice of proposed rule making is published, "the estimated length of time until the standard is promulgated ranges from 26 months (2 years, 2 months) to 63 months (5 years, 3 months)."
Even if OSHA spent a few years developing a standard based on its rescinded ETS, the resulting regulations could (and inevitably would) still be challenged in court. The Supreme Court's rationale for blocking the ETS suggests a permanent standard would fare no better at that point.
Much of the litigation against the ETS focused on the distinction between an emergency standard, which must be "necessary" to address a "grave danger," and an ordinary rule, which need only be "reasonably necessary or appropriate" to address a "significant risk." That distinction came up again when the Supreme Court heard arguments for and against a stay on January 7. But when the Court issued the stay six days later, it focused on a different point: the distinction "between occupational risk and risk more generally."
The majority granted that OSHA has the authority to address the danger posed by COVID-19 when "the virus poses a special danger because of the particular features of an employee's job or workplace," as in laboratories that handle the virus or in "particularly crowded or cramped environments." But it said OSHA was obliged to take account of those "particular features" rather than targeting virus transmission in every indoor workplace with a rule that covered 84 million employees.
"Although COVID-19 is a risk that occurs in many workplaces, it is not an occupational hazard in most," the Court said. "OSHA's indiscriminate approach fails to account for this crucial distinction—between occupational risk and risk more generally—and accordingly the mandate takes on the character of a general public health measure, rather than an 'occupational safety or health standard.'"
Since general public health measures are beyond OSHA's legal purview, the majority concluded, the businesses, employees, and states that challenged the ETS were likely to prevail in arguing that the agency had exceeded its statutory authority. Under the same reasoning, that would also be true of a permanent standard that resembled the ETS in its breadth and justification.
"The Biden Administration is not giving up," the New Civil Liberties Alliance, one of the organizations that opposed the vaccine mandate, warns in a press release. "Instead, it says that it will focus its resources on promulgating a permanent rule rather than the ETS." Good luck with that.
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"The Biden Administration is not giving up,"
They don't want to break their streak.
The ETS was stupid on its face and stood almost no chance of succeeding. That said, they've already flaunted and can't take it back that they are doing a Constitution end-run. Kinda hard to come back now and make the case that the new rule that sounds like the old rule is there for entirely different reasons.
The Biden authoritarians will expedite their attempt at making a new rule and test the water with that as well. Yes, making new rules has historically taken years, but there's nothing inherent in the process that forces that to be consistent. This is an administration that is growing increasingly desperate for a win, and while appointing a new Justice sounds great to them, it's not really a political win. If Omicron numbers are indeed on the way down, they want something.... anything that allows them to take credit for that whether it had anything to do with it or not.
I think they've missed that boat.
This is what people should get impeached for. They are blatantly looking for ways to do things they know are illegal and unconstitutional.
Welcome to Obama's 3rd term
I notice the lack of condemnation of them pursuing a policy found to be unconstitutional.
"Don't worry about tyranny because it won't be easy to do"
Sounds like great advice
But enforcement of COVID vaccines... that's different.
How long before vaccinations are a requirement for having a credit card, or a business license?
The business license one has already happened.
My paranoia needs upgrading.
He's wrong. You don't need a vax card for a business license.
You need to be the enforcer who checks everyone else's cards, though.
youre wrong.
I didnt say to get a license.
Cant you read? Nope.
OP said " having a bus license"
Its more subversive than that.
Comply or be ordered to shut down.
Thats NOT having license.
Been watching a lecture by Dr. Scott Atlas on the pandemic, with the data to back it up. Brace yourself for this - your government may have been less than truthful with you.
The SARS2 Pandemic: Will Truth Prevail?
Thanks for sharing. That is an interesting video. Although I have to wonder what data he is omitting from the presentation. His bias is subtle - you can tell he is a fan of DeSantis for example.
I tend to be skeptical of claims such as, "I am telling you the truth, that has been suppressed from you by a corrupt conspiracy" because it just sounds so, well, conspiratorial. But it is an interesting presentation nonetheless.
His bias is subtle - you can tell he is a fan of DeSantis for example.
Nice attempt at a smear job, Jeff.
You're such a slimy hack.
His bias is subtle - you can tell he is a fan of DeSantis for example.
No bias there.
I predict if/when DeSantis decides to run in 2024, Atlas will be one of his campaign surrogates. There was a definite bromance vibe there from his presentation.
Well if that’s your prediction, then that’s a good excuse to discount Dr. Atlas’s lecture.
I doubt it. He has stated frequently that he has no interest in being involved in politics.
goddamn you're a consistently annoying statist faggot
He's a "fan" of DeSantis because DeSantis listened to him and other less insane experts and scientists. You have it backwards if you think Atlas's positions are formed by his political leanings. From everything I've seen of him, Atlas seems to be very uninterested in politics.
Atlas' new book blames Anthony Fauci, Deborah Birx and CDC Director Redfield (and left wing media propagandists) for urging states to impose the lockdowns and for going to great lengths to sabotage Atlas' efforts to end the lockdowns and reopen society (especially schools).
Doubting the willingness of the bureaucracy to pass a rule purely out of spite is a huge mistake.
^^ That! Particularly true when the political party wanting it is increasingly desperate for a win, and at any cost. It's the same people that put 50K well-paid workers out of a job on day one without so much as a working theory on what benefits were to be gained. Just cuz it was the opposite of Trump.
It's also a cornerstone of Biden's response to "other" people who don't comply with their mandates. It's not his fault Covid hasn't been solved, it's the fault of people who didn't get vaccinated or people who didn't wear masks, or I guess now didn't wear the right kind of mask.
The fact that Omnicron is almost as infectious as the Measels -- which is about the perfect virus from an infectivity perspective -- and that it evades all forms of (non omicron) prior immunity hasn't changed any of the messaging. The fact that mask mandates have never stopped the spread of covid, ever, anywhere, haven't changed the laws or messaging.
Why the hell would they not spend a year pushing an OSHA regulation through? I can totally see it happening. If you go back on it now then you have to admit you were wrong. Take it all the way to the supremes, again, and you can continue blaming others.
Why not? Because it'd look extraordinarily stupid to mandate vaccination against a disease that hardly anybody even remembers.
They'll just call it a penaltax and it will sail through the courts. Wouldn't want to overturn super precedent.
And now after reading this I more convinced that were fucked (60/40 from 50/50). I completely disagree with Sullum's analysis of the occupational hazard argument. If OSHA tailored the law more specifically and they get it passed, nothing will stop them from enforcing the reg more broadly. And government bureaucrats play the long game, the length of time doesn't deter them if it gets them an in for the next pandemic.
If the supreme court can rule that men are women, anything is possible.
SCROTUS
Some men are pussies, so in a way...
Biden’s beta bottom brigade
You really think Brandon is done? Let's go.
The ruling precludes it. EOL.
Holyyyyyy fucking shit.
Rogan to Young: Old man take a look at my life, I'm way bigger than you aaaaaarreee!
Virtue signaling to get a has been back in the news to garner new purchases.
Dude wrote some good songs 50 years ago, which might be consumed by the same septuagenarian slackjaws who haven't heard any music that wasn't originally released on Vinyl and probably don't know what the fuck Slack is.
Rogan is making new shows, today, that are consumed by the millions by younger people.
Pretty easy business decision there. Shoulda' sent Niel back to Canada after that whiny ass rockin in the free world song dropped. He jumped the shark that long ago.
err don't know what Spotify is. Geez this comment section needs an editor.
What's slack?
I wrote "slackjaws" in an attempt to alliterate with septuagenarian, and typed "Slack" instead of "Spotify" again as I saw it on the line above.
Weird how that can happen. It's been a long day and my brain barely works when I'm alert.
no. it needs less you, Asshhole.
Heres how to do that...
" click"
Bye, asshole!
Whiny-ass? WHINY-ASS? You just described his whole catalog.
I didn't mean his voice. In this case I meant the stereotypical ex-hippy worldview where not everything is perfect for everyone, all the time, therefore you're complete shit.
"We've got a thousand points of light for a homeless man, a kinder and gentler machine gun hand..."
Seriously. That was in response to a pretty lovely sentiment:
have spoken of a thousand points of light, of all the community organizations that are spread like stars throughout the Nation, doing good. We will work hand in hand, encouraging, sometimes leading, sometimes being led, rewarding. We will work on this in the White House, in the Cabinet agencies. I will go to the people and the programs that are the brighter points of light, and I will ask every member of my government to become involved. The old ideas are new again because they are not old, they are timeless: duty, sacrifice, commitment, and a patriotism that finds its expression in taking part and pitching in
What kind of a prick do you have to be to discourage people from volunteering for their communities, helping the less fortunate?
That's ol' Niel's worldview. Pretty much every progressive whiner when I was a kid's, too. You could say "everyone gets a million dollars and a blowjob" and they'd say "yeah, but that drug addict ODd before he got his rocks off!" and tell you America was shit.
Everything Is So Terrible And Unfair!!!!! (tm)
Fuckin whiny boomers.
Kudos to Spotify for quickly making the easy choice of delisting Young before it snowballed into something bigger.
Let's see... Young at 6M/month [most through general rotation] vs Rogan at 11M/episode or 200M/month with intention. I can't see many people unsubscribing from Spotify cuz Neil Young isn't there. Can't say the same thing about Rogan. Young was obviously having a stroke if he thought they'd actually pause to weigh that choice.
Neil young has always sucked. Can’t sing, can’t play, can’t write.
"Shoulda' sent Niel back to Canada after that whiny ass rockin in the free world song dropped."
RIGHT?!!?
In 1993, I heard one of the biggest abortions of music in my life. Young and Pearl Jam sang "Keep on Rockin in the Free World" at the Mtv Video Music Awards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWRwD886m90
I went to school the next day and was bewildered as people insisted that it was this was some great moment in Music History(tm). This fucker was obviously drunk (or stoned) off his ass and couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. The sound was so fucked up that his shrill shrieks were completely overpowering Pearl Jam- and their harmonizing was gawdawful. It was an octave too low, and one dimensional.
I was never a giant music fan, so I had heard Young in the past, and listened to a lot of his music (my brothers were more his generation), but I didn't know who he was as a person. All I knew was this shrill caterwauling seal was completely fucking up anything that Pearl Jam was playing. And I wasn't a GIANT fan of Pearl Jam anyways.
So, Big Tech Censorship strikes against those Mean Conservatives once again.
Neil Young demanded that they remove his songs, you fucking stupid shill.
Nobody got censored.
Gotta stop responding to the mentally addled shitposters, friend. (Unless you get off on it!)
NEIL YOUNG DEMANDED IT.
Geez, you're the worst type of shill.
Neil Young asked Spotify to choose between himself, and the Evil Conservatives. And Spotify sided with the Evil Conservatives, proving once and for all that Big Tech just has it in for Evil Conservatives.
Neil gave an ultimatum to Spotify to either: void a contractual agreement with Rogen ( because 'feelz' ) OR remove his own work from the streaming platform (his own contractual agreement).
Seems straight forward to me. Irrespective of this "dems good/repubs bad" mantra you have...
As a long time reader of the threads, I must say, you rarely put up anything other than reflexive statements with not thought or inquiry.. you are just like trash journalism...
Ok, so now you got caught out and you're trying to spin.
They didn't censor him... he asked his catalog to be removed in an ultimatum. But perhaps you knew that but wanted to make a non-sequitur of a point anyway.
I’d been meaning to download Spotify and subscribe to Rogan since he left YouTube, just hadn’t followed through.
Until yesterday. And first thing I did was subscribe to Rogan. Fuck off overrated old commie.
For the record the "young" Joe Rogan is 57
I see people praising Spotify for their decision, but I guess expectations are that low. This is a really easy decision since not only does Rogan have a huge (young!) audience, but they offered quite a bit of money beforehand to boot. If they capitulated to Young, I would imagine there would be reorganization up top since such a result would be bad for business.
Rogan would not have minded at all though.
"So, you'll give me the $100M you offered me right now instead in another year or two AND I can shop my show elsewhere. Damn, that is a loss indeed"
Don't worry, DNC bot Twitter is on it.
This thread is hilarious:
https://twitter.com/OccupyDemocrats/status/1486472215881203715?t=njJy-Ioq8WuKaLeiZxSo1w&s=19
BREAKING NEWS: In a shameful move, Spotify takes sides with anti-vaxxer Joe Rogan and begins removing Neil Young’s music from its platform. RT IF YOU ARE DISAPPOINTED WITH SPOTIFY!
If you’re a Democrat who is disappointed with Spotify’s decision announced today that they are siding with anti-vaxxer Joe Rogan instead of with pro-science singer Neil Young, please RT and follow our account for more breaking news!
I think Neal Young's music is mostly pretty bad, but on this he has guts and principle and he'll lose money. Here's his letter of today explaining his action.
https://neilyoungarchives.com/news/1/article?id=Spotify-In-The-Name-Of-Truth
Here's Joe explaining (without evidence) that someone has GUTS AND PRINCIPLE! (tm) because they conform to his bias. Let's all praise Young because he meets Joe's seal of approval, and nothing more.
Neil Young used to be anti-authoritarian and critical of government, as is easily discerned by his music.
Now he rails against "misinformation", as defined as any information or viewpoint that conflicts with the government's narrative.
Obviously Young would not agree with your definition. In this case "disinformation" is the promoting of dangerous crackpot medical theories which data - check your local ICU for admissions - and the world's medical and scientific community reject.
What disinformation was promoted on Rogan’s podcast?
A northern man doesn't need him around, either.
and the world's medical and scientific community reject.
Whether it's true or not clearly doesn't matter to you. Science isn't an act of consensus.
Of course it is, or each scientist would have to start at ground zero (atomic theory, gravity, molecules, etc) to investigate and produce advancements.
Fuck, you're stupid.
He really is.
That post is something a kid with a C in high school Science class would write. It is a complete misunderstanding of why a theory requires reproducibility to maintain its validity.
Joe is the perfect Proggie.
By his argument, we should still be using Newton's incorrect formula for kinetic energy.
- Newton's original equation was KE= 1/2 mv. All the other scientists agreed, until one (Chatelier) figured out that it should be 1/2 mv^2. She was discounted by everyone until it became so obvious that they had no choice.
btw, Chatelier is now better known as Lady Chatterley.
FFS, dude, what do you think the ICU admissions prove? That the supposed potential treatments that people aren't being allowed to use don't work? Think that one through a bit.
Zeb, the "supposed potential treatments" - your name - don't work on Omicron and they cost about $2100 per dose vs $24 for a vaccine now proved through millions of doses.
And you missed the point entirely. Keep thinking. Maybe read what I wrote again without assuming you already know my mind.
“Keep thinking.”
This implies he started.
when you go to the hospital and test positive they are required to admit you. a local san diego hospital pleaded with folks to NOT get tested at their hospital because they DID NOT need admission for mild cases.
Dude.... Your like a wind-up robot who repeats anything and everything MSM shits out of thier pie hole. There r literally 1,000's of real doctors and scientists calling out the whole Covid scam. YOU... Just listen to the same 5-talking heads recycling thru MSM over and over. Faucci, Gates, Swab and others have been telling folks for YEARS what it is they HAD PLANNED!! U r a moron Monday thru Sunday. Just another embarrassing human dumbass of epic proportions.
The Phucko Knows
Neil Young used to be anti-authoritarian and critical of government, as is easily discerned by his music.
They were never 'anti-authoritarian'--they were saying 'LISTEN TO US, NOT them.
And as soon as they could amass the power to force us to listen to them, that's exactly what they did.
Because authoritarians always want themselves to have freedom of speech, they just don't want anyone else to do it.
Overt, his self harming actions for principle is entirely self evident whether you agree with the principle or not.
Demanding that people who disagree with you on public health measures be censored, is the opposite of guts and principle.
Maybe if old Neil was a virologist or epidemiologist like Joe's guests he could claim some justification. But he's a cranky old nutbag who got his medical qualifications from the University of CNN, and that doesn't actually give you the legal right to shut other people up.
Mother, Young's actions are self evidently against his own personal financial interests and for a larger principle you don't agree with concerning the propagation of dangerous misinformation about easily verified medical questions which fuels the incredibly stupid resistance to a vaccine estimated by the CDC to have costs several hundred thousand American lives. This is not about your favorite color or pizza topping.
Neil does not even own his own catalog, so it does not hurt him in the slightest.
Dr. Debbie Brix says your a complete idiot. She told u idiots in April of 2020 that the powers to be were going to change the certificate from dying WITH Corona... To dying OF Covid. All with not a single study performed. She "retired" 2-weeks after that news conference. R u really this much of an idiot? Today.... The CDC says ONLY 6% of those FALSE numbers ACTUALLY died from a virus. Which means..., u freaking clown show..., that LESS then 50,000 folks ACTUALLY died over the LAST TWO YEARS of the cold/flu season from a cold. WHICH..., is LESS then the normal average for deaths caused by the ANNUAL flu. U literally know nothing. Calling u a complete and utter moron.., is being to kind.
The Phucko Knows
Either that or he's a petulant shit.
As the D.C. Nazi's continue to push 'federal' OSHA's standard of taking up 'arms' against the people.
HELLO!!!! The USA doesn't have Constitutional Authority for OSHA to even exist! And for DARN good reason. A reason so great a Revolutionary War was fought to escape armed national 'Agency' suppression.
The USA has been destroyed ENOUGH! Stop electing National Socialist (syn; Nazi) thugs who LIE and MANIPULATE and CHEAT the USA (Defined by the Constitution) to D.C... It's the same as electing criminals to be cops. Don't be so stupid.
Like a dog returning to its vomit, I have no doubts that OSHA under the Biden administration will attempt to make this permanent, that they will fail is entirely dependent on there not being a majority of Democrat party hacks filling seats on SCOTUS.
Well, anything is better than admitting that the vaccines aren't what we hoped they would be.
Zeb, mine did come with a unicorn and improved sexual performance. Yours didn't?
What were you expecting other than protection against catching and dying from Covid?
Well, protection against catching it for one. Protection against transmitting it to others for another.
You are either incredibly ignorant or dishonest. When the vaccines came out, there was a lot of hope that they could create a herd immunity that would largely stop person to person transmission and pretty much end the epidemic. That hasn't happened and it is clear that it's not going to at this point. And that's because the vaccines don't come close at all to stopping infections and transmissions. It may marginally reduce those things, but clearly not enough to have any herd immunity effect.
I really, really wish they did work that way, but they don't. And all of your arguments only work if they do work that way.
when the "vaccines" they are peddling emerge from the typical trials i'll be glad to have it. the ones you're all eating like a nice piece of chocolate cake are only about 5 years from that. one of the vax's has been called a medical device, ALL should be required to be labelled as "experimental".
Stop repeating your freaking lies. U can't PROVE a damn thing u say. First.... The shot is not close to being a vaccine. Secondly... It doesn't stop u from testing positive... Getting sick... Or spreading it. Oh that's right... It makes it all LESS obtrusive. WOW!!!! So how exactly does one quantify that? As there is NO ACTUALLY peer-reviewed study that says that thought process is even remotely true. Only a child would think along your lines of thought. If u close the door to your closet... The bogeyman is less likely to get under your bed. Prove me wrong little boy? I guess with your inability to think for yourself... U can get "It could've been worse" chisled into your headstone.
The Phucko Knows
So, if this takes a year to get through the rule making process, would the Republicans be able to kill this with the Congressional Review Act?
Yes, but only if they could override Biden's veto. Likely they'll regain control of both houses, but unlikely it'll be a veto proof majority.
fucking cunts get their shit pushed and just can't accept the reality that they are out of control. shameless assholes
Believe OSHA? Ya gotta be kidding. I only believe Il Duce Trump and his eloquent and white-nationalist patriotic utterances (not on Twitter no more, sadly) and the well-reasoned reasoning of Reason's reasonable and esteemed writers.
mPEG Triglutamic acid
https://peg.bocsci.com/catcs/1103/mpeg-triglutamic-acid/ Methoxy polyethylene glycol Triglutamic acid is an amino acid and peptide peg conjugate, which is made by covalently linking peg to various amino acid derivatives.
No, you heard tribalists repeat claims that told you what you wanted to hear because they argued against the other tribe. Sorry but not all of us are fooled by such standards of "proof".
Well, Dizzle has weighed in with his family anecdotes, we can stop the medical studies! That proves it all!
Vaxxed are primed for Omicron, that's for sure. The rate of infection in the UK for the various cohorts (unvaxxed, 1st dose <14 days, 1st dose, 2nd dose, etc.) is much higher as the number of doses goes up.
The fact that you guys caught it when you had it before is precisel what I mean by it evading prior immunity. Vaccines from last year have dramatically reduced efficacy, as does prior infection, when it comes to catching Omicron.
The only thing that really primes you from not getting Omicron is having had Omicron. It's just enough different to reduce efficacy against contracting the virus, not just for MRNA vaccines, but also the immunity you might have had from Alpha or Delta.
And that's the point. Vaccines no longer "protect" others from you when both you and they can have or spread the vaccine. Which means a workplace safety argument mandating a vaccine under the guise of protecting those you work with is no longer relevant. Which is why I believe pursuing the regulation even this far was Biden further demonizing people he hopes to blame.
To be clear, I'm quite happy we have vaccines available. There's some reduction in getting Omicron -- especially with boosters, there's enough that it's statistically notable. But it is decidedly not like the vaccines with Alpha, that had an amazing efficacy against infection. And the Alpha scenario is the scenario for which the current dogma and vaccine policy was conceived.
The really notable benefits are all downstream, AFTER you catch the Omnicron. Reduction in severe disease is notable, and against death is substantial. Aggregate data for hospital stays shows way shorter for vaccinated, too, so even "severe" is less severe. I follow local numbers here and everything shows that vaccinated have a substantially lower severe and death rate than unvaccinated in the current wave.
But that's not the same as stopping people from getting sick.
So I'm sticking to my guns. Everyone who wants a vaccine should have one. They work a treat, even if they don't prevent the initial infection. But Omicron has completely changed the landscape and the already shaky foundations of health policy formulated a year ago are no longer valid.
Dizzle, only insecure fools think human rational fallacies reside only among those who you disagree with.
Queue joe friday world's best contractor with his sage knowledge..Dizzle may have trigger him.
I've kind of concluded that y'all don't really have a leg to stand on when insisting that you get to define what evidence is shared or not shared.
Seriously, have you acknowledged once that the "science" you were peddling has turned out to be wrong? Your whole moral case for an obligation to vaccinate was on the incorrect assumption that the Vaccine prevented transmission, and so people were negligent if they walked around without that prevention.
People were pointing out that this was wrong for MONTHS- as early as Delta, when Israel's breakthrough cases were emerging (and the CDC was posting data to indicate this as early as July- remember Provincetown Bear Week?).
But no. No acknowledgement how wrong on the science you have been. Just trying to scold people for sharing their anecdotes.
Please tell me how the Missouri hair dresser mask study isn't anecdotal and that Dizzle's story is less useful?
Crud, almost all the scientific studies that are as links provided here are anecdotal by the way.
Lying Jeffy is inherently dishonest. And he’s a special kind of dishonest, because his range of ways to be dishonest is very wide.
Our understanding of the natural world evolves over time.
I don't apologize for faithfully reporting the state of our scientific knowledge of the world at any given moment in time, and nor should anyone.
And I also resent the implication that because rigorous scientific studies showed one set of results at one instant in time, that there is some aspect of deception involved when those same results don't stay immutably true forever. For example, we now know that the vaccine efficacy wanes over time. But back in January 2021, we didn't have a lot of information about that. So there is nothing wrong with making recommendations based on the accurate knowledge that we had at the time.
And yes I have acknowledged that the vaccines aren't as great as we all had hoped they would be, but fundamentally, that does not change the MORAL argument in favor of vaccination. To wit: when confronted with an interaction between two people, one of whom has the potential to cause harm to the other, the burden should fall more heavily on the individual who has the potential to cause harm to try to minimize that harm, rather than on the the individual who might be the victim of that harm, to try to reduce that harm. In my view, it is irresponsible, entitled arrogance, to walk around in public having NO consideration with regards to how one's choices might impact others, and when others complain, just yell "well, it's your fault for going out in public in the first place! It's your job to avoid my arrogant entitlement, not my job to tone down the narcissism a bit!" That is an inversion of what the proper burden ought to be. And my argument about vaccines and negligence stems from this more fundamental truth. If you'd like to argue against it, go right ahead. But the science of the vaccine itself is irrelevant to the broad moral argument that I am making here.
If that's what you think, you are an ignorant moron. There have been many very smart and well informed people who are not at all in the tribe of the American right saying these things. As well as many who have no connection to American politics at all.
world's best contractor
He lowballs estimates and disappears halfway through better than anyone else!
You made that same shitty moral argument 20 months ago. It was false then and it is false now. You cannot assign a moral obligation for me to protect your health to any extent that you are capable of doing so yourself. In the event that you can't, I would still have to be capable of causing you harm, i.e., to actually have a contagious disease, for there to even be a moral issue to address. My vaccination status is irrelevant to any moral argument, only my infection status.
This bit:
In my view, it is irresponsible, entitled arrogance, to walk around in public having NO consideration with regards to how one's choices might impact others, and when others complain, just yell "well, it's your fault for going out in public in the first place! It's your job to avoid my arrogant entitlement, not my job to tone down the narcissism a bit!"
is pure fucking evil. It is eerily similar to the moral argument that was use to justify the dispossession and arrest of the kulaks for the failure of the collective farms.
The only thing you are right about is that the science of the vaccine is irrelevant. Because it never was a vaccine.
The other day, on Twitter I saw a bunch of lefties freaking out because some UN group took a vote on declaring 'food' to be a basic human right, and the USA was the only country to vote 'NO'.
It's almost like they don't understand the basic concept of what makes something a 'right'.