Coronavirus

COVID-19 Booster Shots Are 90 Percent Effective Against Hospitalization

Unvaccinated Americans over age 50 are 44 times more likely to be hospitalized than triple-vaccinated folks.

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The booster shots of the Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccines are around 90 percent effective against hospitalization for folks infected with the omicron variant, according to an analysis released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Researchers at the agency used diagnosis and admission data between August 26, 2021, and January 5, 2022, from nearly 400 emergency care units and 260 hospitals in 10 states to make those calculations.

"These findings underscore the importance of receiving a third dose of mRNA COVID-19 vaccine to prevent both moderately severe and severe COVID-19, especially while the Omicron variant is the predominant circulating variant and when the effectiveness of 2 doses of mRNA vaccines is significantly reduced against this variant," notes the agency.

This new CDC study is in line with another released yesterday reporting that unvaccinated Americans between the ages of 50–64 and those 65 and older were, respectively, 44 times and 49 times more likely to be hospitalized in December with COVID-19 infections than vaccinated people in those age groups who have received booster shots. The CDC's hospitalization risk rates are based on COVID-19 infections tracked by the agency through December 25, 2021. That means that those calculations are largely based on delta variant infections and do not include much data from the omicron variant surge, which is now hopefully peaking.

Overall, the agency calculated that unvaccinated adults over age 18 were 16 times more likely to be hospitalized than were fully vaccinated people.

The above chart shows the age-adjusted COVID-19 hospitalization rate per 100,000 Americans the week before Christmas 2021. The number of Americans in hospitals diagnosed with COVID-19 infections stood at just over 71,000 on December 25 and is now nearly 160,000. The daily average COVID-19 death toll rose from just over 1,300 to around 2,000 now.

Let's also take a quick look at more recent data from the Canadian province of Alberta to get some sense of how the omicron variant is affecting COVID-19 disease trends among older unvaccinated and vaccinated people.

Alberta public health authorities report that as of January 19, the COVID-19 hospitalization rate for folks aged 60–69 who are tripled-vaccinated (boosted) is 21 per 100,000 people, double-vaccinated is 186 per 100,000, and unvaccinated is 1,225 per 100,000. In other words, unvaccinated Canadians in that age group are 58 times more likely to be hospitalized than individuals who have gotten their booster shots. Overall, the risk of hospitalization per 100,000 for those over age 5 stands at 41 for triple-vaccinated, 87 for double-vaccinated, and 600 for unvaccinated Albertans.

The intensive care unit (ICU) hospitalization rate per 100,000 for those folks between the ages of 60 and 69 years is 1.6 for the triple-vaccinated, 31.5 for the double-vaccinated, and 896 for the unvaccinated. The age 5 and up ICU hospitalization rate per 100,000 is 2.2 for triple-vaccinated Albertans, 8.7 for the double-vaccinated, and 131.4 for the unvaccinated.

One hopes that these data will encourage Americans who are still unvaccinated or unboosted to go get their shots.

Disclosure: I got two doses of Moderna back in February and March and a Pfizer booster in October last year.

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  1. So your chances of being hospitalized for covid go from "miniscule" to "44x miniscule".

    1. Precisely. Every article should open with the fact that Covid materially affects only a sliver of a sliver of the population.

      1. I am creating an honest wage from home 18K Dollars/week , that is wonderful, below a year gone i used to be unemployed during an atrocious economy. I convey God on a daily basis. I used to be endowed with these directions and currently it’s my duty to pay it forward and share it with everybody.
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    2. This is like that penny rounding hack from Office Space

      1. Like Superman 3

      2. Except we didn't make a mistake on the decimal place. So we have $142.76 cents in our bank account after two years.

        1. Back up in your ass with the resurrection

    3. The hospitalization rate for (unvaccinated) people in my age group is 22 per 100,000. Or, put another way, 0.022%

      Vaccination + booster apparently lowers that to 0.0018%. Which is about 12x lower.

      But they are both very very small numbers.

      1. Shhh, Bailey was Scientism-ing.

      2. This is what needs to be reiterated. The "10x lower!" rate is from an extremely small rate of hospitalization and death.

        If I was selling you a lottery ticket and told you it was 10x more likely to hit the lotto, sure its a better buy...if you are into buying lottery tickets. But most people go "ya im good, I dont want any lottery tickets, neither of them shits is going to hit" 10x more likely in a 1/1,000,000,000 is still pretty unlikely.

    4. If he won't give hard numbers instead of "Well, it's x% more", then I don't buy the concern.

      1. Exactly. Give the absolute risk along with any relative risk, Bailey!
        You claim to be the "science" correspondent for Reason. Any decent science correspondent would addres that, but the commenters have to do it for you?

        1. The commenters have been far ahead of "the science" on COVID since day 1. Almost everything coming from the CDC recently (now that they are essentially admitting they have been wrong the whole time) you could have seen screamed in the comments in March-May 2020.

          The best top men in govt took 2 years to catch up with an internet comments section.

          Coming soon: Natural immunity is fine, and healthy people probably dont need to be vaxxed...maybe by 2023.

    5. For old fogeys like us (or like me, anyway), I'd say the risk is "low" rather than "minuscule". But yeah, "44 x low" is pretty "minuscule".

      1. Yes, stratifying by age and infirmity is important. But as I recall, stratifying by age and health status is... racist or something. So you get banned from Facebook and Youtube when you do that.

        The disease is deadly, full stop.

        1. Check out how they changed the vertical scales in the graphs.

          If you plotted the 3 lines of the 50-64 age group on the 65+ age group graph, the orange line (unvaxxed) would peak out about halfway between the orange and blue lines on the 65+ graph, and generally be a lot closer to the lower ones.

        2. Lots of things are deadly, if you mean that at least one person died as a direct result of a thing.

          The question, as I am sure you know, is how deadly. If a person "engages" with a thing (driving, smoking, contracting a disease) what are the odds of direct death? Is one in ten deadly? How about one in a thousand? One in a million?

    6. Not just that, but it takes 3 spaced injections to do that. The headline lies as if it's about the booster, but it's actually about the whole series.

      1. And the 3x series is compared to an old 2x series. Would a fresh 2x series be that much worse?

    7. I have an anti covid rock and have never been hospitalized.

      1. It sounds 100% effective. So far.

      2. How much for the rock?

        1. 40 covid tests. And 5 boosters. Need to catch up without the rock.

      3. Hmm, 2 moderna shots and a black candle on a goat skull is shown to be 88x better at preventing delta, omicron, influenza, smallpox, and bubonic plague. And chicks dig it.

    8. And what is the downside to getting vaccinated? You never explain that in your unceasing camp again to disparage vaccination.

      1. Oh, right. It’s that Democrats are promoting it and you hate Democrats.

        1. Trump's Vaccine.

          You've got Trump juice coursing through your veins.

          1. That really is the funniest part, the vaccine that all the fucktards called into question when orangemanbad was in office, they now can't get enough of the shit into their blood.

            1. . . .and demand that EVERYONE get it.

            2. Complete blithering 180 from 'I'll wait for the data before I take a Trump vaccine.'

        2. Because Democrats r the morons of the world. Clowns like u prove it every time u open your mouth. Put any "pied piper" in front of u fools.., and off the cliff u go singing Kumbaya,My Lord. As the Democrats r but a clown car full of sycophants with thier heads fully planted into each other's back side.
          The Phucko Knows

      2. Or because you are afraid of needles?

        1. Tell me you're an unthinking statist who wants to be told what to do without saying it.

        2. No one cares if you get the jab. Just say no to mandates, since, shot or no shot, you're gonna catch it and transmit it.

        3. Look at u standing at the head of the line screaming; "Stick me, stick me." "Please put that experimental juice in my vains". "So what that I'm an uneducated fool". "Big Pharmaceutical would never harm ME"! "That's why I can't sue them". "That's why they wanted to keep all the info secret for 75-yrs." "Cause they care about ME!" My GOD man... You r a complete and utter fool. No wait.... Your a complete and utter jackass. Yup... That's it. A jackass.
          The Phucko Knows

      3. You continue to be nothing but a sea lion. You've had the arguments and links provided to you dozens of times.

        Why should a child with a statistical zero rate of hospitalization be forced into a shot that provides no statistical benefit?
        ====
        IM
        @ianmSC
        Cases in Israel are now up 24,688% since CNN reported booster shots had brought down the fourth wave

        In fact, Israel now leads the world in case rate despite mask mandates, vaccine passports & rolling out a fourth dose

        How much longer do we have to pretend The Science™ works?

        1. Oddly enough, the CDC data page linked in the article does not include any data for children aged 5-11. And certainly not for kids age 0-4, since they aren't eligible for the vaccine anyway.

          The data that it does have for teens age 12-17 shows a hospitalization rate of 5.4 per 100,000 (unvaccinated). That's not technically zero but it's very, very close. 0.0054%, or about 1 in 18,500. The vaccinated rate is even closer to zero - 0.0004% or about 1 in 250,000. Seems like a big jump (13.5x smaller) but that happens sometimes when you're dealing with really tiny numbers.

          Also, even these small hospitalization numbers as referred to as 'covid-associated' hospitalizations by the very same CDC page. So it seems likely that it includes people with broken legs who test positive and the like. (with-covid not for-covid, potentially asymptomatic or very mild)

          1. Agreed. Binomial estimations tend to break down as one gets closer to zero or 100 why most estimates of population samples for binomial distributions are only considered vid for 10-90%

            Reporting percentage deltas in populations percentages that small is a misuse of statistics.

          2. I'd be interested in seeing the all cause hospitalization rate for that 12-17 group. If there are differences between vaxxed and unvaxxed, and how it compares to previous years.

          3. It also doesn't show what Bailey claims, unless one is risk-averse to the point of being cripplingly paranoid.

      4. The vaccine doesn't prevent infection, symptoms, or as the most up to date omicron data shows (just check individual states own health department websites, I've posted them numerous times so don't ask for a cite you stupid fucking cunt) hospitalizations.

        It's basically useless at this point, and completely useless without a booster after 4 months.

        Why risk ANY side affects, minor or major, for a vaccine that doesn't actually work anymore?

        1. That's where I'm at. I was considering getting a vaccine for a good while, but wanted to see how it played out for a year or so. I'm glad I did. I wasn't worrying about it when there was no vaccine, I'm not going to start now that it is less dangerous.

        2. Not only that but it doesn't even provide the non-medical benefits like not wearing the mask or going about your life unmolested by branch Covidians.

        3. That is the same reason why I found Joe Rogan's recent vaccine 'controversy' so hilarious.

          So his guest argues the point that children are 4x more likely to develop myocarditis from natural COVID than from the vaccine.

          Uh ok...so even if that is true for single vaccine, what happens to the risk analysis when a child is boosted multiple times? At 1 base vaccine with 3 boosts, you are already breaking even with the COVID myocarditis risk even according to the 'experts.' What happens at 4x, 5x, 10x, 20x boosters for the next decade? Isn't every one of those boosters multiplying the chances of side effects?

      5. It's nobody's goddamn business. That's the only answer you need.

        People have a right to make their own choices. Asserting the right to bodily autonomy seems like enough reason to refuse vaccination when so many are pushing for it to be mandated. If one makes the judgement that fighting for their rights is better than reducing this one particular risk somewhat.

      6. Why do you think I owe you an answer to that question?

      7. Well, you could win big money in Australia for jab harm, but not here for one.

      8. "And what is the downside to getting vaccinated? You never explain that in your unceasing camp again to disparage vaccination"

        Hundreds of people here have talked about arterial inflammation, heart attacks, miscarriages, post-menopausal menstruation, strokes, dangerously high hypertension, irregular heartbeats, and other cardiopulmonary problems, and you have bitched and whined and ignored the citations you demanded, and now you're going to pretend nobody's ever said anything?

        You're such a dishonest shit, Mike.

      9. Heart problems in a small group of people. It’s a risk, but you can also get heart problems from getting covid. So it’s a crapshoot.

        1. Yes, and while there have been a small number of verified cases of myocardial problems with the vaccines, there have been many more from COVID. It’s one of the documented side effects of COVID.

          What’s more it is known how to manage the side effect of the vaccine. It’s part of the reason they have you sit there for 15 minutes after injection.

          1. Tell me how many have died of the jab, see-lyin.

            Then look at every other vaccine distributed, look at what they prevent, and then tell me again to be afraid of Covid.

          2. It's illegal to mandate an experimental drug. Don't make me fear for my safety. You will regret it.

      10. How about permanently screwing your immune system over. U know.... Like the guy who invented the mRNA shot says it will do. The virus has a 99% recovery rate. Maybe the question IS...., WHY get it at all?
        The Phucko Knows

      11. If one have been infected, then your protection is much better than those who have been vaxxed but never infected and it is equivalent to the two types of hybrid immunity. So, no pressing need to acquire additional protection which carries unknown long term risk and a very small short term risk with no gain in protection.

        1. You simply cannot make that blanket statement as a fact. How immune you are from future infection involves many variables: your age, general health, and strength your immune system; what strains you have been infected with; what vaccinations you’ve had; what strain you are being exposed to and how strong the exposure is.

          One thing is for sure: getting vaccinated and getting vaccinated can only help, with virtually no serious side effects.

          1. Jab: expresses spikes from the original strain. Immune system recognizes only spikes.

            Previous infection: encounters complete virus. Immune system recognizes more parts and is more adaptable to variants.

        2. Meant “and getting boosted”.

          Anyway, it’s all upside, so why not take advantage of it.

          1. You are entirely immune to reason, see-lyin.

            Have another booster.

          2. Do you need a spoon to eat shit or would you rather go right to the source?

      12. The downside to getting vaccinated is that the vax can KILL people who were healthy before the shot.

        The upside? This is unclear -- you still can catch and spread the virus, even if fully jabbed.

        These two facts are why so many health professionals have avoided the shots.

    9. Not to mention the questionable reliability of "hospitalization" data.

      1. Right, im pretty disapointed on Reason.com with this bs article.

        1. You expect more from Ron? There is a leftist authoritarian power grab he's gotta pimp.

      2. "Not to mention the questionable reliability of "hospitalization" data."
        Or, that, it is pure speculation that the vaccine makes a subsequent infection less severe.
        Without complete knowledge of how badly an individual would react to being infected, no one can say the effects were lessened by having the jab.

    10. As I keep saying in these dumbass Bailey articles these numbers are junk. And it's hilarious Bailey only passingly notes the numbers are pre omicron.

      I've posted various states own health department data in New England, the South, and southwest several times showing that fully vaccinated (2 shots ore more) were approaching 60%+ of hospitalizations at the end of December into January. And the numbers were still trending higher.

      It's also hilarious that Bailey left out that only a day before this report the CDC finally issued its report stating natural infection provided nearly 8x better protection against delta than vaccination.

      https://www.wsj.com/articles/prior-covid-19-infection-offered-better-protection-than-vaccination-during-delta-wave-11642619009

      Which completely shits on the prior cdc study saying vaccination was better than natural immunity that was literally based on polling people in a hospital who said they had covid before but had no clinical diagnosis or antibody test. Thats what passes as science at the corrupt cdc.

      1. That's right. Continue to rely on selection bias fallacies for your medical advice. LOL

        1. Says the guy who dismissed prominent and well published doctors for the sole reason they were on Rogan and the leftist media told him to do so

          Lol.

        2. You have literally done this for two years.

          1. Pound Twinkies down his gullet?

            1. He’s been doing that a lot longer than two years.

        3. What the shit do you think Bailey is doing here?

    11. "Alberta public health authorities report that as of January 19, the COVID-19 hospitalization rate for folks aged 60–69 who are tripled-vaccinated (boosted) is 21 per 100,000 people, double-vaccinated is 186 per 100,000, and unvaccinated is 1,225 per 100,000."

      Making a hospitalization rate 1/8th of 1% in the unvaxxed 60-69.

      Before all our health statistics were fake, what was the hospitalization rate for 60-69 year olds from the flu season?

    12. You people really do not understand the concept of a weekly rate.

      1. Fuck off, JSlave. Your evil has no power here.

  2. Disclosure: I got two doses of Moderna back in February and March and a Pfizer booster in October last year.

    Are you making your appointment for the Omicron-specific booster coming out in March? If not why not?

    1. Ron is at least 44 times more likely to get a shot than I am.

    2. I'm holding out for the OmNicron booster. The one that handles any and all variants.

      1. I’m waiting for Unicron.

        1. Conan is waiting for Crom.

          1. Conan is more by Crom than for Crom.
            By Crom!

          2. Didnt you also make a Skyrim joke the other day, Chumby? I am forced to assume you have good taste.

            1. Red Sonya approves.

            2. I used to be a Reason commenter like you, until I took an arrow in the knee.

          3. Crom? WELL!

        2. I'm waiting for the ReachAround

          1. Sometimes those are a pig in a poke.

        3. Orson Welles finest roll.

      2. Three Vaccines for the Elven-kings under the sky,
        Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
        Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
        One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
        In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
        One Vaccine to rule them all, One Vaccine to find them,
        One Vaccine to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them,
        In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

        1. Appropriate. We live in the Age of Fiction.

    3. So that Pfizer booster is stale now. Roll up your sleeve.

    4. His booster already is worn off lmao.

  3. "Unvaccinated Americans over age 50 are 44 times more likely to be hospitalized than triple-vaccinated folks."

    Oh Ron. You do realize this data is factually wrong? The CDC, while recently admitting that up to 50% of COVID hospitalizations are not actually because of COVID, are still using this incorrect data when they make these dubious claims. When you also factor in that they are suppressing the negative side effects of the "vaccines" and boosters, it's clear we aren't getting the full picture.

    I would expect more from a science reporter and a Libertarian.

    1. OK, so you expect more from a science reporter and a Libertarian.
      But this is Ron.

    2. So would I, which is why this is exactly what I expect of Ronald Bailey.

    3. "You do realize this data is factually wrong? The CDC, while recently admitting that up to 50% of COVID hospitalizations are not actually because of COVID, are still using this incorrect data when they make these dubious claims."

      How is this factually wrong?

      It seems perfectly likely that in a population that is 90% vaccinated (as the 50+ crowd is), there would be as many if not more vaccinated people in the hospital even if the vaccine reduced the likelihood of vaccination. Just the rough math bares this out- if the vaccinated were just as likely to be in the hospital as unvaxxed, you'd expect it to be 90% vaccinated in the hospital, right?

      1. " even if the vaccine reduced the likelihood of vaccination."

        er, released the likelihood of hospitalization.

      2. It's not that high but it's approaching 60% in much of new England, the south, and southwest.

        The data out of UK also is showing about 67% of their current hospitalizations are fully vaxxed.

        1. Which would seem to indicate that the vaccines have some effect. But not a very big one. Though there could well be other factors at play that aren't being considered.

          1. Not really since omicron is way less severe than the rest. I'm un and just got over omicron. It was annoying but symptoms were totally manageable with Tylenol and ibuprofen. I'm asthmatic and had zero problems breathing. And that says alot since stupid things like cold air bring on the suffocation for me.
            The vaccine no longer works period. But they have to keep up with the cult following and make it all sensational calling it a disease instead of just virus, and also the higher infection rate. That sounds really bad but really any flu or cold bug is an infection that you don't even bother calling the doctor for. I didn't need to see mine or go to the hospital. And again I didn't get any of those shots.

          2. You can't trust the numbers for vaxxed, unvaxxed, hospitalization due to covid, hospitalization with covid, etc.
            Let's see the raw number of hospitalization year by year and broken down by age.

      3. 94.5% of deaths were with, not of. Per CDC.

        This falls in line with other nations reporting 3-4% of deaths actually being only Covid.

        1. So triple mask and quadruple boost?

          1. Absolutely, comrade. Let no good crisis go to waste.

        2. So only about 50k people? Did I do my math right on that?

          1. U r in the ballpark. And that's over two years. So in actuality... LESS FOLKS have died during the last two years then generally die do to the seasonal flu. And That's the Fact's..., Jack.
            The Phucko Knows

          2. 21k if I did mine right.

            1. *for 2020, not whole pandemic. Sorry.

  4. What about the miracle of MOAR TESTING?

    1. To be fair, it’s a good test to see if someone is mentally ill.

      1. The whole affair is but an IQ test.
        The Phucko Knows

    2. The test kits are in the mail. The masks will follow.

  5. never going to a hospital is 100% effective against hospitalization

    1. Damn, beat me to it.

    2. Also, once everyone is vaccinated, the relative rate at which the vaccinated get hospitalized will be ∞X.

    3. And how does vaccination correlate with the likelihood that people will go to the hospital with covid-like symptoms?

    4. Just to be clear, once you test positive, the only place you will be seen by a physician is in a hospital. This is the way.

      1. This is not true. I was just at the doctor with my covid-positive kid. They treated her like she was radioactive and made her stay in the car, like frightened little lemmings, but she did not have to go to the hospital.

        1. LOL! I stand corrected.

        2. ...made her stay in the car???

  6. Yawn. More flu stuff.
    Get over it.
    The pandemic is over, it is endemic now.
    Fire everyone at the NIH & CDC and cancel all mandates.
    Science.

    1. They are busy funding the development of the next pandemic virus.

    2. And fuck Joe Biden.

    3. Then why am I still wearing a mask, social distanced, considered "unvaccinated" despite having two shots, and barred from various bars, restaurants and other venues because of it?

      1. As a wild guess, you have not yet moved to free America from the shithole country where you live.

    4. “Get over it.”
      I see what you did there

  7. So we're supposed to believe the CDC this time? What makes this time different?

    1. Oh, that's easy. Because now they're fully vaccinated.

    2. It's easy, you just believe them every time. When the music stops, the last thing you believed is the "settled science".

  8. Roughly 50% of covid deaths happen within the first 14 days after the second jab and get counted as unvaccinated deaths. The numbers are more lies than truths.

    1. I highly doubt that.
      Any corpse that tests positive for the virus is counted as a COVID death regardless of the cause of death, and likewise the anti-vaxxers count anyone who died after getting the vaccine as a vaccine death regardless of the cause of death.
      So the people you're talking about were likely counted as both. As a COVID death by the people who want you to fear the virus, and as a vaccine death by those who want you to fear the vaccine.
      And they're all full of shit.

      1. More lies from sarcasmic on how vaccination deaths are counted. Amazing.

        1. You should address him as Dr. asmic.

          1. He originally wanted to be a lawyer but gave up that dream after he realized he could never pass the bar.

            1. But sarc is such a schnappy dresser, he coulda tried.

      2. “Anti-vaxxers” are likely not running the numbers.

        1. Won't work. Sarcasmic is known to only be able to process yes/no. He can't process more of something/less of something.

        2. Based on recent definitions, someone who has gotten lots of vaccinations over the years, including annual flu vaccine, AND including the Double Covid Jab is an 'anti-vaxxer' if you are caught leaning back, crossing your arms and raising an eyebrow when some hack on MSNBC is telling you to get your bi-monthly booster.

      3. The fact that they are using that excuse is sick and sad. There was a German doctor doing autopsies on recently deceased during the delta wave. There were people who had died from that shot that they were instructed to list as unknown. Even though they were perfectly healthy before that shot, if you don't have symptoms in the first 24 hours they have deniability and they pass it off as undetermined or just natural. When really they all had either a stroke from blood clots or had a heart attack and a few other causes. But symptoms didn't show up for a week sometimes 2 weeks so they don't count it as vaccine injury. The doctor said it's something to do with it turning lymphocytes against different organs. That's why it takes so long. It can be seen microscopically. But most people are brainwashed enough to think that is not possible from this experimental new technology that just so happens to have no side effects and is safe enough that the CDC only gave it an approval for emergencies only. They are still in the test phase and who knows what it will do in the long run. I get my vaccinations. The ones that have withstood the test of time. This is mRNA not a dead virus, so you can keep it.

      4. If u die in the hospital.... They get up to 24-days to test u for the Kungflu. Why? If u get the vaccine and die within the first two weeks. They DON'T test u for Kungflu at any point within the first two weeks. Why? What's happening could not be anymore obvious if they tried. Yet..... Look at all the morons out there with thier sleeves rolled up.., and thier noses in the air. Sycophants.., one and all.
        The Phucko Knows

  9. the COVID-19 hospitalization rate for folks aged 60–69 who are tripled-vaccinated (boosted) is 21 per 100,000 people</i.

    Does the "100,000" mean people in the general population, the population of folks aged 60-69, or the population of folks aged 60-69 who are tripled-vaccinated?

    1. The last one

    2. Triple vaccinated sounds a lot like, “giving 110%.” Unpossible.

  10. The CDC data found little difference in covid hospitalization rates between those who got the two dose vaccinations and those who also got a booster.

    In fact, the key finding of this study is that booster shots don't provide nearly as much protection as the first two shots.

    1. Disclosure: I got one dose of J&J back in April, but decided to not get a booster after/because they don't appear to offer much if any additional protection, and because freedom hating totalitarian Democrats unconstitutionally mandated vaccines for many other Americans (which raises many concerns and questions about the actual benefits and risks of boosters, and the honesty of politicians).

      1. There is no question at all about the honesty of politicians.

    2. Biden's CDC and Ronald Bailey have grossly misrepresented the key findings of this study by focusing on the difference between rates for unvaccinated people (i.e. about 15% of American adults) and those who got three vaccine doses (i.e. about 35% of American adults).

      In fact, the study found that those who got two doses of the vaccine had only slightly higher covid hospitalization rates than those who also received the booster shot.

      1. I know in our system that 5-10% of the fully vaxxed ICU/vent COVID patients are boosted (not exactly talking big numbers, like 10 of 70 of the 200 currently in the ICUs) compared to about 40% of the fully vaxxed population statewide.

        I declined to get a booster until Murphy forced the issue, but there's at least some evidence of its utility. I'm betting this will be the last round considering the efficacy data being seen from overseas following the emergence of Omicron, but dumber things have happened.

      2. I am sure the booster is fine. Especially if you are in a risky place. The younger you get, the less important it is for your health. But only you can decide for yourself how important is enough to justify lines, waiting, jabs, risks, etc.

      3. Your rule is sound: If Democrats want you to do it, absolutely do not do it!

  11. People over 50 are who have been vaccinated are 44X less likely to be hospitalized than those who haven't been vaccinated so we should keep vaccinating until the proportions are equal. If you disagree, you're an anti-vaxxer. If you think I'm being spurious, a sophist, or unfairly satirical, you've been living under a rock for two weeks and need to get vaccinated 4-5 times.

    Seriously, first-hand it's pretty clear that Mrs. Casual is having progressively worse reactions to the vaccine after every dose. And it's really sad because if, in the next 5 or so years, a real infectious disease (or non-infectious disease) comes along that requires an mRNA vaccine to cure it, she's going to have a really, really hard choice to make.

  12. COVID-19 is not the flu, but it acts like the flu in a some ways. For one, a flu vaccine does not provide an ABSOLUTE IMMUNITY. Ditto with all other vaccines, and also COVID-19 vaccine.

    You get a flu shot you can still get the flu, but it's not a serious flu and you're not shitting your pants with a fever of 105. Likewise with COVID-19, if you get the vaccine you can still catch it, BUT YOU'RE NOT IN THE HOSPITAL!

    I don't see why this is so controversial. But some people act like vaccines have always conferred absolute immunity. They never have.

    1. The flu shot stimulates immunity so your body fights it off before you get sick. The mRNA vaccines act more to stimulate a post-infection response giving people the ability to fight it off faster. With the traditional vaccine your immune system fights the virus, while these newfangled vaccines stimulate t-cells which target infected cells and stop the production of the virus within the body.

      The people who say the COVID vaccine is a treatment or worse does nothing at all are ignorant, stupid, or political. In many cases all three.

      1. And you are both wrong.

        The flu vaccine is against 1 or two strains of the flu to be estimated to be the most virulent in a given season. It does not protect from all variations of the flu. When the vaccine chooses incorrectly it has almost no benefit for getting a different strain.

        Only Mike has shown more ignorance on the science of vaccine than you two have.

        1. The underlying issue has nothing to do with vaccines. If you broke your leg, Brandyfuck and sarcasmic would hand you a crutch and say, "There, cured!" Which, in many ways, is really fucking evil.

          1. To be fair brandy would use tax dollars to give everybody in the US a crutch and force them to use it just in case.

          2. "There, cured!" Which, in many ways, is really fucking evil.

            It is truly amazing how ignorant modern citizens can be about health care. Having never seen a leg that healed without being properly set, they cannot even fathom that it is horrible, crippling condition. Having never seen a polio victim or cholera epidemic, they cannot understand that COVID is not frightening.

          3. More like you, mad.casual, get a concussion after I hand you a helmet and say "See! Helmets are useless!" when you would have been dead.

            1. "I offered someone a helmet to make up for the fact that I gave someone with a broken leg a crutch and told them they were cured." - sarcasmic

              1. Was the broken leg from being mauled by a bear that jeffy had in the trunk of his car?

    2. Vaccines have, previously, conferred immunity. That was their design and also how the Covid 19 shot was presented to the public. You are memory holing that initial presentation and definition.

      The flu 'shot' was never a vaccine, never promised as a vaccine, until the definition of a vaccine was changed to fit the narrative of the Covid 19 shot. Now people call the flu shot the flu vaccine. It is Goebbels like in its absurdity. The Covid shot appears to convey some level of boost to the immune system of some users. How much it really protects as opposed to one's intact immune system is not clear because the information has been so bad.

      I believe this generation of children will pay a terrible price both in social development and the development of their immune capabilities.

      I have never had a flu shot, yet had the flu more than a few times. Fever and chills, yes, but recovered shortly after. I haven't had the flu in at least 20 years.

      I had the initial Covid shots. No reaction. I took the booster. Nothing. I tell my friends I am surely in the placebo control group and/or the group they are shooting the nanobots directly into. Always had a strong immune system, had no real fear of the Covid but got the shot to assuage my wife's misgivings. I am healthy and also would be considered in the risk group because of my age.

      I sensed when the news media started promoting Covid as a 'Pandemic' that we were in the throes of a narrative. Then it became so big it couldn't be walked back. If the Feds and media were not so alarmist, the Rona would have likely been more controlled at the local level (FLA) than it had been for the last two years with one size fits all policy (CA,NY)

      I suspect it will come to an end shortly. The mandate battle vs. the Supreme Court was the second to last gasp, Boris in the UK throwing in the towel will signal it is okay for us to do the same.

      I haven't worn a mask since I got my first shots. I don't care if I am around the unvaxxed or not. If there is a carrier near, vaxxed or unvaxxed it would appear, they can spread it so I will either get it or not.

      'You're not in the hospital' is a stupid measurement of the effectiveness of a vaccine and likely another measurement that is being skewed to meet the requirements of the narrative. It is controversial because the information has been awful and the alarmist conjuring has been transparent. Cases is a bullshit measurement.

      I know this is all my opinion and anecdotal, Mike Laursen, so please don't ask me for a cite.

      1. “Vaccines have, previously, conferred immunity.”

        No, that’s not possible. That would be artificial immunity, not vaccination. All any vaccine has ever done is stimulate (or prime if you will) the body’s immune system.

        1. Do you have evidence to support your claim? Please post more information.

          1. I got smallpox just last week.

        2. It's called "neutralizing immunity" you dumbass, and it's what every major vaccine, until covid, had offered.

          You do realize the CDC literally changed the definition of vaccine last summer and meriam Webster followed suit don't you?

          https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/11/30/fact-check-merriam-webster-changed-vaccine-definition-accuracy/6354415001/

          "
          Fact check: Missing context in claim that Merriam-Webster changed 'vaccine' definition
          Sudiksha Kochi
          USA TODAY

          The claim: Merriam-Webster removed the immunity part of its 'vaccine' definition
          Merriam-Webster, the company known for its reference books and dictionaries, has become the source of online misinformation about vaccines.

          "Vaccine used to be defined as a substances that provides 'immunity' to a specific disease," reads the text of an Instagram post shared Nov. 4. "Now, Merriam Webster has literally changed the definition of 'vaccine' and removed the 'immunity' portion in order to possibly cover for the fact that the COVID 'vaccines' don't actually provide immunity from COVID."

          The post generated close to 27,000 likes in less than a week. Other social media users have shared false claims that Merriam-Webster changed the definition of "anti-vaxxer," PolitiFact reported.

          This claim is missing context, too.

          Fact check:Claim is missing context on WHO's parental-consent guidelines for vaccinating children

          Merriam-Webster revised its "vaccine" definition to replace "immunity" with "immune response." The change also addresses the new technology of mRNA vaccines in light of the COVID-19 pandemic.

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          The company told USA TODAY the goal was to be scientifically accurate about how vaccines work, not to question their effectiveness.

          USA TODAY reached out to the social media user who shared the post for comment.

          Definition changed 'immunity' to 'immune response'
          Peter Sokolowski, editor at large for Merriam-Webster, told USA TODAY in an email that the company changed its "vaccine" definition to include more scientifically accurate language.

          "Merriam-Webster adds definitions and evolves existing ones to accurately report on how words are used," he said.

          A vial of the Pfizer pediatric COVID-19 vaccine and a diluent for it are seen on the first day of a clinic with the University of Iowa Hospitals & Clinics on Nov. 3 at the University of Iowa Health Care Iowa River Landing location in Coralville, Iowa.
          According to an archived version of the dictionary's website, Merriam-Webster formerly said a "vaccine" was "a preparation of killed microorganisms, living attenuated organisms, or living fully virulent organisms that is administered to produce or artificially increase immunity to a particular disease."

          The new definition of "vaccine", published in May, reads: "a preparation that is administered – as by injection – to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease." "The editors changed "artificially increase immunity" to "stimulate the body’s immune response" because they believed it would be more helpful to readers, according to Sokolowski. "

          " Merriam-Webster's change is in line with updates the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention made to its vaccine definition.

          In September, the CDC changed its vaccine definition from “a product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease” to "a preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases," according to the Miami Herald. "

          See, even the CDC used to say" vaccines produced IMMUNITY" not just an immune response fucktard.

          Even USA today cant "fact check" this bullshit away.

          1. POLITFACT!!!!!

        3. Now you're just making shit up.

          1. Cdc just killed one of Mike's other sacred statements on vaccines for covid providing more immunity than prior infection.

      2. Want to take odds on if brandy and sarc also pushed the peanut scare in children that caused the giant rise in allergies?

        1. I'm pulling for peanut allergies to surpass Covid deaths this year.

          1. There's a good chance that deaths from allergic reactions were higher than deaths actually from, not with covid in 2021.

      3. > Vaccines have, previously, conferred immunity.

        What medicine calls "immunity" IS NOT what you are all mean by immunity. An immune response does not mean you are absolutely positively guaranteed to never ever whatsoever get the disease. People get the flu shot and they still get the flu. We know this. So why act like COVID-19 vaccines are all useless and a conspiracy if they don't confer an absolute guarantee?

        1. And which other vaccine supposedly still has very high rates of infection and doesn't essentially stop transmission to others?

        2. You've hit the nail on the head. It is all _acting_ for partisan purposes.

          1. You two are acting as if there was a moral responsibility to protect others with ineffectual actions

        3. As amusing as it is to see a bunch of internet bros suddenly reveal themselves as doctors, please stop.

          Traditionally, Vaccines injected you with inert/weakened versions of a virus in order to trigger your body's immune system to detect and develop antibodies for the virus.

          This has been the MO of pretty much every Vaccine in the history of vaccines. The Polio vaccine actually had several different virus strains that were inactivated and injected into the body. The flu shot has inactivated forms of viruses that scientists predicted to be the most virulent, but because of the rapid evolution of the flu virus, it is possible that the virus that makes it to your region has changed such that your body is less effective (or ineffective) at combating it.

          The mRNA vaccine is COMPLETELY different from the Flu vaccine. Instead of injecting you with inactivated virus, they are essentially infecting you with what can be called a man-made virus. Whereas a virus infects a cell and causes it to create more copies of the virus (until it bursts), the mRNA strand poses along other mRNA strands being sent by the cell nucleus, and causes the cells to develop the infamous SPIKE PROTEIN (R). Your body then learns to detect and fight this ONE COMPONENT of the COVID virus.

          It should be obvious why this is different from traditional vaccines- namely that bodies that detect and fight off COVID viruses learn to detect and block numerous other parts of the virus, while the mRNA vaccine focuses the body's defenses on a single component. The original hope of mRNA vaccines was that by focusing your body on one component that we believed was ubiquitous to all COVID variants, they would be superior. But we are finding instead that a single antibody response is not as effective as a broad spectrum antibody response mounted by bodies that have seen the ENTIRE virus.

          It has been clear from the start that natural immunity would be more effective than the mRNA vaccines, but- once again- Vaccine Enthusiasts downplayed evidence and shaped messages to maximize the spread of the Vaccine.

          I have no problem with adapting the definition of vaccine to accommodate this new mechanism. But just fucking be honest. It isn't the same. And it certainly isn't "just like" the flu vaccine. It is a new way of trying to create an immune response- and all the evidence is that it is not a superior way either.

          1. "and all the evidence is that it is not a superior way either."

            I should modify this.

            Probably there was never going to be a traditional form of Vaccine for COVID, because the corona virus is so effective at mutating. Getting a strong response to the spike protein is probably the only way to "pre-train" your body with any capability to fight the virus. But again, being focused on only one part of the virus means your body is still slow to mount a response.

            But it was never going to be superior to people who had just had the virus. And because of the quick infection time, and mutation time of COVID, even people who contracted it in 2020 and fought it off (like myself) are getting re-infected again.

            1. The jab also causes your body to only express the spikes as immune samplers, rather than the full display of the virus you get in more traditional vaccines or by infection.

              The receptors expressed are not majority neutralizing either, which enables infection of your immune cells by the virus.

          2. As amusing as it is to see a bunch of internet bros suddenly reveal themselves as doctors, please stop.

            Then you post a tl;dr as if you're a doctor. Jeez. Ever look in the mirror?

            1. Triggered lefty, again. You're losing the race against broken clocks.

          3. This has been the MO of pretty much every Vaccine in the history of vaccines.

            It's propaganda/psycholinguistic manipulation and it only works for so long based on the target's (or targets') IQ.

            "It's a revolutionary new technique that works in the exact same way as any other vaccine in history except just better."

        4. So why act like COVID-19 vaccines are all useless and a conspiracy if they don't confer an absolute guarantee?

          I'm not calling it useless. Just stop calling it a vaccine. It isn't.

          1. Of course the vaccines are vaccines. They do what vaccines have always done: introduce a substance into your body that stimulates your immune system to build up immunity.

            1. According to the recently updated and modified definition. I go by what was once science, before The Science! came along and changed it. But call it what you want. I don't really care at this point.

      4. "I believe this generation of children will pay a terrible price both in social development and the development of their immune capabilities"

        ^
        And all who promote this shit are fucking child abusers

        1. Oh, teachers?

    3. But some people act like vaccines have always conferred absolute immunity.

      You. You're the one acting like that.

      I don't see why this is so controversial.

      It's not. Cure vs. treatment is long established in the medical literature well before even vaccines were invented. There are plenty of places where the two are much more similar but still not conflated. Why you insist on conflating the two is a mystery to everyone except maybe yourself. The fact that you do it is obvious to everyone except, apparently, yourself.

    4. But if you get one of the vaccines that works well, you are likely to have complete immunity. There isn't a lot of Measles and Mumps going around in places where most are vaccinated for those things. Those are the vaccines that people are comparing to. Which maybe isn't completely fair and the flu vaccine is a better comparison. But way too many people are still pretending that the covid vaccines are like those others I mention and can stop spread and contain the disease. Which they clearly can't.

      1. The flu shot is not a vaccine, never was until this year. It is a yearly 'shot' that guesses at the mutation of the virus based on the others in the past.

        1. If the CDC admitted to covid seasonality and oy did regional vaccinationsike the flu shot voluntarily, they'd be doing something worthwhile.

          Brandy and sarc just like the authoritarian aspect of the fear mongering.

      2. We dont' have measles and mumps going around because we have enough vaccines to confer herd immunity on the population. Where we see outbreaks is invariabley where some anti-vaxxers didn't vaccinate their children and lowered the herd immunity threshold. That was the Disneyland case. That was the Northern Australia case. Holy shit, we thought we had Polio eradicated, but it's making a comeback in the trendy proggie communities in Australia.

        1. Those vaccines provide long term immune responses dumbfuck. Not 10 weeks or less.

          How are you such a fucking scared child?

          1. It seems to be part of the left-leaning in-groups' consciousness, this fear of everything.

        2. Right, and herd immunity happens because the vaccines work in such a way that most people who take it won't get sick or pass the virus on to others.
          I wish the covid vaccines worked that way, but they don't. Even in places with well over 90% vaccination that has simply not happened and it won't. If the vaccines save lives, that's great. I think they do. But they are not going to create that kind of herd immunity and that's been clear for a long time now.

          1. Isreal is having a huge surge despite high population of people having taken 2 extra boosters.

          2. He's bullshitting in the margins an awful lot and the Disney/Measles appeal is my favorite. It would be cool (or at least better) if he were in any way consistent with his other comments, but it isn't.

            My MIL had the same stupid holier-than-thou attitude WRT to anti-vaxxers and measles at Disney. I asked when she got her measles vaccine. She hadn't. She just contracted it as a kid. I asked if my FIL had gotten an MMR since he had his colon removed to cure him of colon cancer. He hadn't. I asked her if he'd gotten it since he battled lupus. He hadn't. I pointed out that since she considers him immunocompromised (despite lupus tests showing his Ig levels well above normal), isn't he effectively unvaccinated. No, because that ran a risk of jeopardizing his fragile health and everyone around him is vaccinated (apparently *immediately* forgetting that she herself isn't vaccinated). I pointed out that the measles outbreak in Chicago was traced back to a supermercado and that it's entirely possible the people suffering from measles aren't actually anti-vaxxers, they just came from a place where they didn't have access to vaccines the way we do. She replied that they don't live in that kind of community. Getting "the signal" from Mrs. Casual, I changed the topic with "Hey kids! Wanna go to the (gated) community pool? I hear Carlos just got done cleaning it!"

        3. Those were vaccines. The Covid jab is a therapeutic.

        4. "Where we see outbreaks is invariabley where some anti-vaxxers didn't vaccinate their children and lowered the herd immunity threshold."

          This is anti-science, religious bullshit. And I wouldn't care, except you are exactly one of the people comes into these threads acting like they have a complete handle on the science.

          You were wrong when you claimed that vaccines were going to end this virus back in April. You didn't know- nobody did. But you were nevertheless wrong. And now you are wrong to claim that the spread of variants is caused by anti-vaxxers.

          Stop being an irresponsible peddler of myths.

    5. I don't see why this is so controversial. But some people act like vaccines have always conferred absolute immunity. They never have.

      But that’s how they were sold.

      1. And there's plenty of evidence to suggest that they were knowingly misrepresented as such.

        If there were a tetanus epidemic, you wouldn't buy 500+M tetanus doses with an option to buy more for every American up front.

    6. "I don't see why this is so controversial. But some people act like vaccines have always conferred absolute immunity. They never have."

      Brandy, I don't want to be a dick, but seriously: if you don't understand why this is so controversial, go look in the mirror. Or maybe at your previous posts...

      In April you, and your like, were insisting that the vaccine would get us "some semblance of herd immunity". In September, you were insisting, "The risk of breakthrough infection is minuscule." Just a few weeks ago you were insisting that people get vaccinated to protect "loved ones" from the virus. Maybe...Maybe people act like these vaccines were supposed to confer immunity because that is what it was sold as?

      If you don't understand where the controversy is coming from, let me spell it out to you: You and others like you sat around insisting that Vaccines were our return to normalcy. And a year later you and others like you have the gall to act all exasperated when people don't buy your earnest nuance.

      Now, maybe you didn't *intend* to sound so sure as you insisted things that later turned out to be untrue, but you need to understand that you were part of a great many Karens and Faucis whose signal you were amplifying. We were promised that vaccination would end lockdowns, end masking, stop the spread and lead to herd immunity. Well none of that shit happened. None. Not here in the US, not in places like my county where vaccination is north of 90%, and not in entire countries that are better than 90% vaccinated. You. Were. Wrong.

      And now you don't understand why people roll their eyes when you clear your throat and come up with tortured metaphors about the Flu shot? Seriously, you cannot possibly be this socially unaware of cause and effect...can you?

      1. Well said. My sentiments exactly. The whole, 'well, you know, we thought it was this, and we know we said it was this, but what we really meant was it was this now, and oh by the way, it is something else now too. But trust us. This is the truth this time.'

        1. "The whole, 'well, you know, we thought it was this, and we know we said it was this...."

          But that's just the thing. People like Chemjeff, Brandy and Mike aren't even copping to being wrong. No, they are lecturing us, "Well you see, this vaccine is like the Flu Vaccine, why is that so hard to understand!" It was just a few weeks ago that Brandy said we should be getting the vaccine "for the sake of our loved ones." And Chemjeff has constantly given the whole, "being unvaccinated is like being a rat infested restaurant" analogy- I was disputing it just a few weeks ago.

          First they insisted we have a moral responsibility to eradicate the virus- and they used Polio and Smallpox as examples of these eradication campaigns. When it was clear that even in places like Israel that would be impossible, there were no apologies, just a shift to "Well, at least protect the people you come in contact with." Now that it is clear the virus is still spreading- even faster than it did before the vaccine existed- we are getting these analogies to the Flu Shot.

          If you want to call the Flu Shot a vaccine, fine. I'll agree to that. But the Flu Shot was never sold as a way to stop the spread of the disease or protect others. It was always 100% sold as a mechanism for at-risk or otherwise concerned individuals to protect THEMSELVES from the flu.

          But still, not one moment of contrition from Chemjeff or Mike or Brandy- no just sneering scolds from them and a forlorn hope that we won't notice them changing the subject. Again.

      2. They can and will continue to be willfully obtuse.

        Being wrong is not acceptable in a political religion that is hypervigilant towards any minor violation of the Ministry of Socially Acceptable Truth's doctrine. Progressives have gone all in on white knighting and By Any Means Necessary.

        They cannot be wrong because they are the good guys. "Why" is never a question, only "how."

      3. It might also, since left-leaning sorts are smarter and just better than everybody else, learn the difference between attenuated vaccines and the emergency use only variants for covid. Then find a tall glass of shut the fuck up.

    7. Ditto with all other vaccines

      I got Tetanus and Diphtheria last year, but it wasn't that bad.

      And my mom got Polio, but she didn't need to be hospitalized.

      1. LOL, the tetanus vaccine is a series of 5-6 jabs. Aren’t you the main complainer here about having to get multiple COVID-19 jabs?

      2. Diphtheria vaccination is 3-6 jabs, and only 95% effective.

        1. Whooooooooosh.

          1. So low the wings almost clipped liarson's head.

      3. Crickets from Diane/Paul.

        1. It's difficult to address your levels of stupidity with sincerity. I give them great credit for trying, but they may have left for a stiff drink before trying to re-engage here.

    8. I'm an unvaxxed asthmatic that recently have covid and never saw a doctor for it. Should I also mention I didn't need a hospital or is it implied well enough? It was annoying and I've had ear infections that were worse than that.

      1. And, therefore, what? Nobody should get vaccinated because it turned out OK for you?

        1. The sky is falling! Sealion harder to glue it back up!

        2. And, therefore, what? Nobody should get vaccinated because it turned out OK for you?

          Or, in your world, everyone should get vaccinated even though for some who choose not to it will turn out okay? Why should they make their own choices on their own health?

          If you say it is to protect others I am going to have to strongly disagree as it appears vaxxed or unvaxxed the Covid spreads indiscriminately to whatever host fits its model the best. As viruses are wont to do

          1. Not so. It has been shown over and over that vaccinated people spread the virus at a slower rate.

            1. As I said:

              it appears vaxxed or unvaxxed the Covid spreads indiscriminately to whatever host fits its model the best

              So. I didn't say anything about speed or rate of spread. Vaccinated people spreading at a slower rate makes no difference. They can spread it as much or even more to others depending on the circumstance. Vaxxed or unvaxxed can both spread. Indiscriminately. Nuff said.

              1. Of course rates of spread matter.

                That’s like saying the speed at which you drive your car doesn’t matter to how likely it is you’ll get in an accident.

                1. Holy crap.

                2. I've been driving for many, many years and never had an accident. Why, probably because of the speed I drive based on the circumstances I am in. I drive under the speed limit and over it at times. How I drive and behave behind the wheel and attend to my own safety on the road has as much to do with avoiding an accident as the speed I am driving.
                  To use your analogy and reiterate my point, vaxxed and unvaxxed are spreading the Covid indiscriminately. If I go to a 'check my vax' event and everyone is vaccinated but someone brings the rona to the party some of us/them will get. If I go to another event with my unvaccinated friends and no one has it, no one gets it. Get it?

                  1. No he doesn’t get it.

        3. All idiots should get vaccinated. How else will the "man" know who to harvest?
          The Phucko Knows

    9. Prove they cause less of a reaction to a virus? U can't. It's all just a marketing phrase. Like "my mask protects u and your mask protects me". So if this Covid is so real..., why (so far) has the U S Government paid out over 3-billion dollars to Marketing, Advertising and Psychological think tanks so as to convince the public that Covid-19 is going to kill u all?
      The Phucko Knows

  13. Other breaking news! More data suggests that people who have full time jobs are 44 (or maybe 4400) times more likely to avoid homelessness and poverty than those have have no job. Since the un-jobbed place an outsized burden on public infrastructure, the federal government has committed to a program to promote jobs, and may require jobs for gathering in public places and using transportation.

  14. No honest conversation about this can be had until people stop politicizing the numbers.

    Every corpse that tests positive is counted as a COVID death. Cause of death doesn't matter.

    Every patient who tests positive is counted as a COVID hospitalization. Reason for going to the hospital doesn't matter.

    Every corpse that was vaccinated counts as a vaccine death. Cause of death doesn't matter.

    There's so much bullshit flying around it's impossible to know what is the truth, so people choose what to believe based upon whatever their reasons are. Fear. Politics. Profit. Who knows.

    But nobody knows what is actually going on.

    1. There is a chance that civil conflict is becoming a general reality in the US. I'm wondering how much longer the both-sideists will be able to remain on the sideline and laugh at the players.

      1. We know who the bad guys are.

      2. Both-sideists on the sidelines get bullets too. If you're on the sidelines, you aren't innocent or impartial. If you're in the stands and had the seat effectively assigned to you, are watching from your couch at home, or are out in the garage or garden when the game is on, *then* you're impartial/innocent.

      3. *clears throat*

        It's "Bowf-Sideists"

    2. You politicized it twice above dumbass.

    3. In the end, none of that really matters. It's just a fight over those who would use the cover of "Science" to control everyone vs. those who are willing to let the virus virus. That fight is not because the numbers are politicized. That fight is because the statists can't accept Shit Happens.

    4. I agree but experience of having covid can tell you that this omicron mutation is most likely not going to put people in the hospital unless their immune system is crap for whatever reason. But no one will ever know the actual truth because they are hiding it.

      1. sadly a lot of the people going into the hospital are the older twice vaxxed who are getting it anyway. over 50 mutations in the spike protein it's almost as if the vaccines were leaky. And the mRNA vaxxes attempted in the past were shelved because in animal studies they caused antibody dependent enhancement. Vaxxed animals died because of a cytokine storm when exposed to the antigen itself. So we will just skip the animal studies this time around! Makes perfect sense. Just like the guy on the committee for the FDA who recommended that we give it to kids, because we don't have enough data to know if it's safe, and we won't ever have enough data unless we give it to them.

    5. every corpse that was vaccinated has never been and will never be counted as a vaccine death. If you research VAERS accuracy there are dozens of published studies indicating it undercounts. Steve Kirsch did a meta-analysis and came up with a URF (under reporting factor) of 41. Harvard Pilgrim study commissioned by DHHS is the most well publicized study on the phenomenon, and was the last big chance to change the system for greater accuracy- the system has not been updated. https://digital.ahrq.gov/ahrq-funded-projects/electronic-support-public-health-vaccine-adverse-event-reporting-system/annual-summary/2010 We can't have people believing that vaccines have that many adverse events though, so you will find if you google it that it has since been fact checked away. Furthermore doctors and nurses are not trained to use the VAERS system, hospital administrators are not trained to use the VAERS system. The majority of reactions are not reported. A far cry from every vaccinated corpse counts as a vaccine death. The CDC is ignoring a VAERS signal through the roof. Over 22,000 reported deaths, the vast majority filed by doctors and nurses. More deaths than every other vaccine combined since the inception of the system. Fact check it yourself. The truth is ugly.

      1. There is good argument that this round of VAERS is less undercounted than others (only 1% estimated to be filed), but even if the count was exact, there's more deaths than all other actual vaccines combined.

        It was something like 4 deaths to yank H1N1 iirc.

    6. Every corpse that was vaccinated counts as a vaccine death. Cause of death doesn't matter.

      This is pure bullshit and you keep repeating it.

      1. https://vaers.hhs.gov/reportevent.html

        "Healthcare providers are encouraged to report to VAERS any additional clinically significant AEs following vaccination, even if they are not sure whether the vaccine caused the event."

  15. In other interesting Covid statistic news:

    Apparently in the UK someone did a comparison of people who died with Covid vs. people who died of Covid, and the numbers show a huge disparity:

    WITH: 157,000
    OF: 17,300

    https://notthebee.com/article/watch-nigel-farage-unloads-on-uk-government-after-department-of-statistics-reveals-that-the-number-of-deaths-purely-from-covid-is-only-17300

    1. And this is an example of the pendulum swinging too far back in the other direction. That 140K also had an underlying condition does not mean they died of said underlying condition, especially when "underlying condition" means a lot of largely manageable conditions like diabetes.

      1. It does not, but I bet the real number is closer to the smaller one. I know people who almost certainly would not have died without Covid, but the vast majority of local deaths have been in the minuscule nursing home population.

        1. I'd guess it's about half and half. I hope we actually find out some day.

        2. I know people who almost certainly would not have died without Covid

          I don't know ANYONE who died of COVID. I know people who know people who died of COVID. You'd think if this were the deadliest plague in the history of humanity, I'd have one close friend or associate I'd have attended a funeral for...

          1. My uncle died two weeks after his first shot. So it was counted as unvaccinated. And no one cares because he was in a home anyway. We don't need squeaky clean verified comparable data. Let's ignore the fact that his death is counted as unvaccinated, and the majority of vaccine reaction deaths are in the first two weeks.

      2. And this is an example of the pendulum swinging too far back in the other direction.

        Only if you're like sarcasmic and only think in one dimension when it's easy and then impugn other people when they do the same. Otherwise, the pendulum swinging in the other direction falsely conflates 'We shouldn't be treating COVID *or* managing the underlying conditions.' with 'We shouldn't be treating COVID above and beyond these other conditions.'

      3. In the US, the majority of deaths had at least 4 underlying conditions. And 80% are deficient in vitamin D. And if you do any research on vitamin D you will find many recommending that the US RDA is woefully inadequate. So did public health say, hey everybody, get your vitamin D levels checked? High risk people especially, get your vitamin D levels checked and get them up to par? NOPE. Instead they put Dr Joe Mercola as #1 on their disinformation dozen hit list and shut down the internet whenever anyone starts talking about vitamins as preventative or early treatment. Meanwhile Dr Robert Malone lifelong virologist and inventor of mRNA technology cures his COVID with Pepcid. It was SO EASY for them to do it right and save people's lives. Hundreds and thousands of people died because people in HHS, CDC, FDA, WHO colluded to suppress preventative measures and early treatment. Masks never shown by science to work to prevent respiratory diseases prior to 2020 are de rigeur, social isolation and totalitarian lockdowns are the new normal- all these things written about by the WHO itself as not recommended or working were instead implemented!!! It is almost as if someone had paid world governments to run scenario prep exercises for a global pandemic where totalitarian response was the preferred option, for over a decade prior to the pandemic...

    2. CDC now says only 5.5% had no other complications that could have killed them alone.

  16. One hopes that these data will encourage Americans who are still unvaccinated or unboosted to go get their shots.

    And the previously recovered?

    Jesus Fucking Christ, over two years into this and we're still ignoring that rather sizeable chunk of the immunity pie? This willful ignorance is a large reason why these suggestions aren't effective.

    1. You have no immunity to Zetachron! Only A-Yichron!

    2. 145 published peer reviewed studies on natural immunity and COVID, still not a peep about it. Not that there was ever any reason whatsoever to doubt that the established principles of natural immunity wouldn't work for this particular coronavirus, because of it's novel lab manipulated nature... Yep Ron is really into science! Maybe if he is still to work for Reason we could change his byline to The ScienceTM correspondent. Or Fauci mouthpiece!

      1. He/him has been like that since the beginning

  17. COVID-19 Booster Shots Are 90 Percent Effective Against Hospitalization

    The graphs show 85% effectiveness with just the 2 initial doses. So the booster is only about 6% more effective.

  18. You know what was effective for me staying out of the hospital since I'm unvaxxed and had covid; being in decent shape by getting some exercise, eating healthy food mostly, being under the age of 40 and taking vitamins.

    So no this data doesn't persuaded me to take an unnecessary medicine, the side effects of which we have yet to fully understand. Oh and least I forget I've natural immunities now, so no shot is necessary.

    1. The side effects are very well understood. Millions and millions of people have received the vaccines worldwide.

      1. Just ignore all the reported side effects right? Ignore Belgium admitting to myocarditis right? Ignore the CDC finally admitting to it changing women's periods right?

        1. Changing women's periods was a positive side effect... trust me.

          1. It made sarc perma period.

            1. I read about it too—and not just in some common rag either—it was a proper periodical!

      2. Do you have evidence to support your claim? Please post some supporting data. I don't doubt your sincerity, I really just want to understand better.

        1. Last time he did it was a 7 person study, an opinion piece from months ago, and government statements.

          1. why is this guy still working for Reason? NYT has a position for him.

      3. so the sharp rise in myocarditis among young people is just a fluke. All cause mortality up 40% in the US of A. Have you even looked at the VAERS data?

        1. Anyone who brings up the VAERS data is not serious. You have had months to learn about how unreliable VAERS is, and come up with better memorized talking points.

          1. Hah! Hahahhahahahahahahahaa!

            VAERS is undercounted by magnitudes.

            Would you like individual case studies instead, sealyin? How about myocarditis studies?

            https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34860360/

          2. Is it under reporting or over reporting the numbers?
            The Phucko Knows

    2. Don't forget fresh air and sunshine. Which authorities in some locales were cracking down on in 2020.

      1. You don't need sunshine, you can get Vitamin D from a pill!

        1. It's not optimal, but better than nothing.

    3. being in decent shape by getting some exercise, eating healthy food mostly, being under the age of 40 and taking vitamins.

      Check out the 1% over here...

      1. HARRUMPH!!! He can check his OWN damn privilege!!

  19. Is there no other fucking science going on in the world for Ron to report on? No one cares. Anyone who was going to get vaxxed is already vaxxed and this shit is boring.

    1. Oh, come on man!
      It’s only been 2 years to flatten the curve.

    2. Hey, it's this or global warmcooling. Which would you prefer?

      1. global warmcooling

        He said 'science', not 'Science!'.

        1. Both of them have become state doctrine. It's not "Science!", it "THE SCIENCE".

    3. Ron is not able to report on science. He clearly had a neurological reaction to his two doses of Moderna and is unable to think straight. Decades of epidemiological practice thrown out the window on a global scale, and this is what our libertarian magazine publishes.

  20. Maybe, if you're in the 2- to 12-week window where the booster is fresh. Then on to shot number 4.

    And the benefit is overstated by saying it goes from 57% to 90%:

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/21/health/cdc-omicron-booster-studies/index.html

    Looking at data from 25 state and local health departments, the CDC researchers found that among those who were boosted, there were 149 cases per 100,000 people on average each week. For those who had only two doses, it was 255 cases per 100,000 people.

    So your risk of testing positive goes from 0.255% to 0.149%, a 0.106-percentage point improvement.

  21. Bailey is now shilling for Big Pharma. Why?

    If Reason can't find a "science correspondent" who understands how to look at data, maybe they should just quit pretending.

    1. damn straight. His byline should read Plandemic narrative correspondent.

    2. Is "now shilling" for Big Pharma? Hasn't he been for the past 2 years?

  22. When are midterms again?

    1. Not soon enough.

  23. The tone of discourse on this site is ironic.

  24. At this point, where hospitals have a supply chain of what they need (and a clear understanding of what is needed), the only harm the un-vaxed pose is to themselves.

    So end the pandemic now by taking back your life from the nanny-ists. People choose to take all manner of risks, sometimes for good reasons, sometimes for poor reasons. We can't fix all those who have poor reasons, who are genuinely fearful, who are genuinely stubborn, and those who are following their tribe's groupthink. Whatever. Pandemic is done for now. Maybe another greek letter will come along and be particularly bad, but let's not destroy our lives, our children, and our economy in the mean time.

    1. If you ignore Colin Powell, the only reason you're in the hospital and taking up a valuable bed the the hospital would much prefer to leave empty, is because you're unvaxxed or only had two shots, which is the same as unvaxxed.

      Get with the program!

  25. Horseshit. Bailey, you're a fucking hack. Even the CNN isnt pushing this level of crap.

    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7014e2.htm

    "Among 378,048 death certificates from 2020 listing COVID-19, 5.5% listed COVID-19 without codes for any other conditions."

    With or of? That's about 21,000 people and just under the number of deaths reported by VAERS surrounding the jab - 21,745.

    Tell me again it's safe and effective.

    1. It is safe and effective if you already owned shares of Pfizer.

    2. Of course - if you torture the numbers enough, and use only the narrowest definition of deaths from COVID, and use the widest possible definition of deaths from the vaccine, then sure, you can "prove" that the vaccine is more dangerous. Or, you can prove that you're lying with numbers.

      1. Numbers came from CDC.

        Are you saying the CDC are liars, jeffy?

        Additionally, that is the narrowest number of deaths from the vaccine. VAERS is undercounted. I rounded up on deaths OF Covid.

      2. And holy fuck, you're not even arguing the vax deaths any more, just flagrantly dismissing it.

        MORE DEAD OF ONE THERAPEUTIC THAN ALL OTHER VACCINES COMBINED.

        How much does it take to get through your skull? Drugs have been yanked off market to never return for a mere fraction of the harm caused by the jab.

        1. At least with the covid therapeutic deaths, the next of kin can sue the manufacturer.

          1. In Australia I've heard they are, but aren't manufacturers still protected against lawsuits here?

      3. 'Or, you can prove that you're lying with numbers,' thus the enormous death count for 'of covid.'

  26. disgusting. Let's count all the people who are vaccinated to any degree as unvaccinated, and throw their data into the unvaccinated pool. Let's ignore the fact that they did the same data manipulation in the clinical trials. Ignore the fact that the vaccines appear to increase their vulnerability to COVID in that same two week window. And count all people hospitalized with COVID as people hospitalized for COVID. Let's ignore decades of established epidemiological practice in this gross manipulation of data. Let's ignore VAERS signals through the roof. FIRE RONALD BAILEY. He does not deserve the title of science correspondent. I'm sure Pfizer or Moderna will be happy to hire him.

  27. Here's the deal.

    You have complete self-ownership to decide what to do with your body. That is absolutely correct.

    However, if your choice of what to do with your body results in harm to others, YOU are responsible. That is the essence of the Non-Aggression Principle.

    So, from a libertarian perspective, if you choose not to get vaccinated, then become a virus factory and get others sick, you should be held responsible for the harm caused to others. Any other conclusion is just special pleading.

    1. This is the rationale of every dictator ever. Every action you take has a possible effect on someone else. A resource used causes less resources for others. Jeff is an authoritarian shit weasel.

    2. You have complete self-ownership to decide what to do with your body. That is absolutely correct.

      OK done. Anything that follows contradicting this means you're lying, full of shit, or both.

    3. Chemjeff compliant totalitarian.

      Go jump into a woodchipper.

    4. The vaxxed are virus factories too. Spreaders now. As are the masked and unmasked. What is the difference then, Jeff? Or, from a libertarian perspective and a non-agression principle how does one, vaxxed or un-vaxxed, not become a non-aggressive virus factory?

      The only way I can see for you to do no harm to others in any way is to stay at home and never go anywhere, but you would still have to contact the people who deliver your food and other necessities. How would that work?

      That sounds like a shitty deal.

      1. Ironically, the best way to know you're not a virus factory is to get the virus and then get over it, which is the one thing that all the people calling everybody else selfish refuse to do.

        1. How can it be said categorically one way is better than the other?

          It’s actually a hard scientific question, and the answer depends on which strain or vaccination your immune system was exposed to, and which strain you are now trying to resist.

          Now that omicron is the dominant strain, hopefully it confers immunity against future strains that cause serious illness, but it’s not known yet how that will play out.

          1. It’s only hard if you ignore 100 years of science.

            1. Mike proves otherwise. He gets hard for totalitarians.

      2. It’s not black and white. Vaccinated people spread the virus at a lower rate. A corollary of the NAP is that when there is no way to perfectly refrain from aggression, minimizing the possible aggression is ethically the best thing to do.

        1. Lol

          Compliance with Mike Laursen's State Religion is the only ethical thing to do!

        2. I minimize my NAP by not having the virus. That is all I should be asked to do. Everything above that, when I know I don't have the virus, is theater, and I would say an aggression against me.

          1. You could have the virus, and be spreading it, and not know it. But you know that.

            1. Asymptomatic spread typically is the purview of the vaxxed you sanctimonious twat.

            2. I know my body well enough to know when I am sick or not. I rarely get sick and don't take any medication stronger than aspirin so yes, I believe I would know if I was sick or not. My immune system is strong because it has developed through the years and I have not tempered it down with a bunch of unnecessary, 'advisable' therapeutics. I believe good health is the ultimate protection against anything novel. I've been exposed multiple times, haven't got it, haven't spread it. I'm not performing NAP theater for your fear based thinking. Sorry.

        3. Racist language see-lyin. That will get you thrown in time out.

          Also, no. You are full of shit as usual.

          Viral loads in un/vax have tested the same.
          Virus is readily spread by respiratory aerosols, rather than requiring coughed droplets.
          Jab does not prevent infection, only reduces symptoms.

    5. If you applied this to every aspect of life, one might buy it. And if the 'your choice of what to do with your body results in harm to others, YOU are responsible' argument wasn't based on a paranoid and cowardly worldview that demanded others comply with one's fearful vision of reality, one might take it as rational.

  28. Complete BS.

    Otherwise all those other vaccinated countries in Western Europe, The UK, Ireland, Oz, Canada, Israel, South Korea, NZ etc etc would be just fine.

    WHEN THEY USE THE SAME VACCINATIONS AS WE DO AS A WHOLE.

    No one believes the NIH, FDA or CDC anymore...They skew their numbers then 2 weeks later they quietly retract their garbage studies.

    Think about it...If anything they had said was true why do we have MORE infected, more dead, more hospitalized among the Highly vaccinated countries then poor countries with less than 10% of teh population vaxxed?

    They are discovering many of the GOVERMENT statements in the EU and in the UK were completely fabricated "To get people to get vaccinated."

    Ah the "Little White Lie to help us."

    When the truth is many of those countries have 2/3rds of the dying and hospitalized are TRIPLE VAXXED.

    Even Israel is finally admitting their morons after being on their 4th Vaccination with TERRIBLE results.

    Have you people seen what's happening among the vaccinated?

    They are dropping like flies.

    But what does the media show? Just the unvaxxed who in some cases is vaxxed just not vaccinated enough UNDER THEIR NEW RULES to be considered vaxxed.

    "2 shots but no booster?" Not Vaxxed in some cities, states and countries.

    "2 shots and 1 booster but not a second booster?" Not Vaxxed in some countries.

    They are SKEWING THE RESULTS.

    1. *they're

    2. When Trump announced the jabs would be fast tracked and skip testing I looked to precursor technology - just a few years back (2016? 2012?) there were mRNA jab trials for SARS-1, also a coronavirus.

      You don't see that on the market for good reasons. Pretty much the same reasons we see now; ineffective a couple variants in, directly harmful and enabled ADE.
      These issuea were known from day 1 of the Covid jab. It was known the jabbed group has about 20% more illness than the control group during trials.

      But here we are with useful idiots all around.

    3. “ Have you people seen what's happening among the vaccinated?

      “They are dropping like flies.”

      You got a cite for that whopper?

      1. Do we have to link you VAERS again, or Israeli or UK studies yet again?

        You never read it, see-lyin.

  29. Here they go. Watch closely because those goalposts will be in orbit soon. Three months from now: Get your 6th booster today! It cuts the risk of long term symptoms 150%!!!!

    1. See above: the tetanus and diphtheria vaccines are six jab series.

      1. You mean real vaccines for actually deadly diseases?

        But let's compare apples to allen wrenches, both start with an 'a!'

  30. Maybe the unvaccinated just own calculators.

    Here is some advice:
    If you want to make an impression on people about getting vaccinated then stop couching you language in these percentages or X times more likely. These are only scary if you don’t divide 250.1 by 100,000 (65 and older) or just take 300/100,000 the highest number on the chart! Or use Canadian numbers, ignore the fact that vaccine or no vaccine you still can pass on the virus, masks are basically useless for a number of reason and so on. And nothing I am saying is controversial. Just facts
    Being vaccinated is a personal choice or a family choice. There is no scientific reason to force people to get vaccinated.

    1. What makes you think Ron Bailey’s goal is to be “scary”?

      1. Clicks.

    2. There is an ethical reason to NEVER force a non-violent person to do anything. If people use their freedom unwisely, it's THEIR choice, no one else's. Therefore, the science is irrelevant.

      1. If you have a communicable disease and spread it to others, when measures were available to you to reduce the possibility you would do so but you don’t take those measures, isn’t that forcing a non-violent person to contract a disease?

        1. Achoo.

  31. I believe they are just reposting the same articles they wrote last year about the original "vaccines" because I'm positive this is what was said about the shot then. "Get your shot and life can return to normal. 95% efficiency" they said. Why do I believe they are lying?

    How many shots do the vaxxers plan on getting? One a month? a week? daily?

  32. Both my kids got COVID (neither vaxxed). 4 and 6. 24 hours of fever and feeling not fantastic. Responded to Tylenol. Day 2 they were almost 100%.

    Wife and I both got it. Both Vaxxed over a year ago (we got the initial round, we are both in health care, we take care of COVID patients). Neither boosted. Mild colds, lasted a few days.

    Its time to end the insanity and move on. We are moving on. We took the masks off a long time ago, they aint going back on. And we wont be getting any more COVID shots.

  33. I can't believe how the government has taken control over everyone's lives over this virus. Medical treatment should have always been between a doctor and his or her patient. Yes, they could have listened to the CDC etc with their recommendations, but then proceeded to treat the symptoms of their patients as they saw fit.

    And, after it was found that the virus was only a great risk to those already in ill health, to shut down businesses and make arbitrary decisions as to what job was essential or not, was the worst type of central planning we have seen on this earth in a century.

    We will never return to "normal". The dictators have had a taste of dictating and they are not going to give up that power. We, as a nation, gave them that power, and we will never have it returned to us.

    1. Yep. It's over. There won't be any going back to "normal".

  34. Screw those guys with their fancy PhD's in virology, epidemiology, etc from librl universities .... I'm gonna go with that guy on the radio who says it's all bull sh*t. /s

  35. Those who want to print vaccine cards can directly visit the site https://www.harvestprinting.co.id/

  36. Bobby Kennedy Jr. Gives Historic Speech at Lincoln Memorial
    … what I call the information chaos. The use, the orchestrated confusion, and fear on manipulating PCR tests and over amplifying them. By changing the metrics on how death certificates are calculated. The complete absence of any good data on case fatality rates or infection fatality rates or all the things that our public health agencies ought to be telling us so that we can individually with our physicians evaluate the risks, treatment, and prophylactic protocols. We weren’t given any of that information. The information we were given was badly, badly manipulated…

    …by the way there’s half a million pages of granular data where Pfizer and FDA have refused to produce because they say it’s too burdensome….they say they can’t show it to us for 55 years…

    …if you take the vaccine you have a 21% increased chance of dying over the next six months…

    …They have to give 22,000 vaccines to protect one person from dying from COVID. And if you give 22,000 vaccines to prevent one death, you’d better make sure the vaccine doesn’t kill anybody because if it kills one person, you have cancelled out all of the benefits. But as we saw, 21 people died in the vaccine group and only 17 in the placebo group, so where did those excess deaths come from? The answer to that question is heart attacks…

    …Science actually is determined by doing studies formally before we appointed one man to be the science.

    …Now the system that they knew was broken 11 years ago, they knew only counted 1% of vaccine injuries 11 years ago, now they’re telling you it is over estimating vaccine injuries. Those 20,000 people didn’t really die from the vaccine. Those 100,000 people aren’t really injured…there’s not a single study that shows VAERS overcounts vaccine injuries…

    …We love the United States Constituion. And we have witnessed over the past 20 months a coup de’tat against democracy and the demolition, a controlled demolition of the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights. And starting with the censorship. James Madison, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson all said the same thing, we put freedom of speech in the first amendment because all of the other rights that we were trying to protect relied on that right…

    …The minute they hand you that vaccine passport every right that you have is transformed into a privileged contingent upon your obedience to arbitrary government dictates.

  37. In clear terms, the odds of someone 65 and older (unvaccinated) of being hospitalized with Covid, is one person in 487.5

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