Gun Control Is Just as Racist as Drug Control
Both public safety strategies are rooted in bigotry and disproportionately harm African Americans.

Sheila Jackson Lee, a black Democrat who has represented downtown Houston in Congress since 1995, thinks repealing marijuana prohibition is "an important racial justice measure." Twice in the last three years, she has sponsored or co-sponsored bills that would have removed cannabis from the list of federally proscribed substances, eliminating a ban first imposed in 1937. "Thousands of men and women have suffered needlessly from the federal criminalization of marijuana," Jackson Lee said in 2020, "particularly in communities of color."
Like the war on weed, gun control is historically rooted in racism and disproportionately harms African Americans. But on the latter issue, Jackson Lee's agenda is decidedly different.
In 2021, Jackson Lee introduced a bill that would create an elaborate nationwide system to license gun owners, register firearms, and punish violators with the sort of harsh mandatory minimum penalties that she passionately condemns when they are imposed on drug offenders. Jackson Lee frames her proposed restrictions as sensible public safety measures—just as pot prohibitionists have always done.
Jackson Lee embodies a common contradiction. Progressive politicians nowadays overwhelmingly oppose pot prohibition and criticize the war on drugs, in no small part because of its bigoted origins and racially skewed costs. Yet they overwhelmingly favor tighter restrictions on guns, even though such policies have a strikingly similar history and contemporary impact.
Drug control and gun control are unjust because they criminalize conduct that violates no one's rights, which erodes civil liberties, contributes to mass incarceration, and unfairly imposes lifelong restrictions on millions of Americans. All of that would still be true even if those policies affected different racial and ethnic groups equally. But for progressives who decry "systemic racism," the drug war's disparate impact makes it especially troubling, and you might think they would see gun control in a similar light.
Both types of policies have long targeted racial and ethnic minorities, at first explicitly and later in practice. Worse, the costs of these two strategies build on each other. People convicted of drug felonies permanently lose the right to arms, and illegal drug users likewise are not allowed to own guns. Gun possession exposes drug offenders to heavier penalties, whether or not they use firearms to threaten or harm anyone. Drug possession sends gun-law violators back to prison, and gun possession sends drug-law violators back to prison. The burdens of these interacting prohibitions are strongly correlated with race, which by Jackson Lee's logic should condemn both.
The Racist Roots of Drug Control
The early advocates of marijuana prohibition were especially alarmed by marijuana use among racial and ethnic minorities. A 1917 report from the U.S. Department of Agriculture described El Paso, Texas, which banned the possession and sale of cannabis in 1914, as "a hot bed of marihuana fiends," who included "Negroes, prostitutes, pimps and a criminal class of whites" as well as Mexicans. "This menacing evil" and "malicious vice" was said to be especially notable "in the army and among the Negroes." The report quoted a police captain who warned that marijuana inspired "a lust for blood," made users "insensible to pain," and imbued them with "superhuman strength"—claims that would later be recycled in stories about a wide range of psychoactive substances, including crack cocaine, PCP, methamphetamine, and the synthetic cathinones known as "bath salts."
When Federal Bureau of Narcotics Commissioner Harry Anslinger began beating the drum against marijuana in the 1930s, he echoed and amplified the concerns that had already led about 20 states to ban the plant. In a 1934 report to a League of Nations committee, Anslinger wrote that "fifty percent of the violent crimes committed in districts occupied by Mexicans, Turks, Filipinos, Greeks, Spaniards, Latin-Americans and Negroes may be traced to the abuse of marihuana."
Anslinger kept a file of stories that reflected his anxieties about drug-facilitated miscegenation. One such item described "colored students at the Univ. of Minn." who were "partying with female students (white) smoking and getting their sympathy with stories of racial oppression. Result pregnancy."
The story was similar in the run-up to early bans on opium and cocaine. San Francisco's 1875 ban on opium dens, the first law of its kind in the United States, was of a piece with various policies targeting Chinese immigrants in California, including restrictions on their rights to hunt, fish, own land, and testify in court. The San Francisco Examiner and other newspapers owned by William Randolph Hearst warned that Chinese immigrants were using opium to seduce white women. At the national level, similar prejudices produced the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 and the Opium Exclusion Act of 1909, which banned importation and possession of the drug for smoking. Five years later, the Harrison Narcotics Tax Act effectively prohibited nonmedical use of opiates.
That law also banned recreational use of cocaine, which figured in terrifying tales similar to the ones Anslinger would later promote regarding marijuana. In a 1914 New York Times article headlined "Negro Cocaine 'Fiends' Are a New Southern Menace," the pathologist Edward Huntington Williams averred that "the cocaine-sniffing negro" was a "peculiarly dangerous criminal" because the drug magnified his "courage" and "resistance to shock," making him impervious to ordinary bullets.
"The most passionate support for legal prohibition of narcotics has been associated with fear of a given drug's effect on a specific minority," David F. Musto notes in his classic 1973 drug policy history, The American Disease. "Certain drugs were dreaded because they seemed to undermine essential social restrictions which kept these groups under control."
The Racially Skewed Impact of Drug Control
Over time, the open expression of racism by supporters of drug prohibition became socially and politically unacceptable. But in some cases, the underlying aims were similar.
John Ehrlichman, President Richard Nixon's main domestic policy adviser, admitted in a 1994 interview with journalist Dan Baum that his former boss's war on drugs was a way of attacking the administration's political enemies. "We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black," Ehrlichman said. "But by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."
The African-American politicians who backed the harsh political response to the "crack epidemic" in the 1980s presumably did not share Nixon's views on racial matters, although that era's anxieties about violent crackheads echoed earlier fears of reefer-crazed or cocainized "Negroes." The scientifically baseless decision to treat smokable cocaine as if it were 100 times worse than the snorted kind—a policy President Joe Biden supported as a senator—led to stark racial disparities in the penalties imposed on federal drug offenders, since the vast majority of people charged with possessing or selling crack were black.
Modern supporters of the war on weed likewise may be completely free of racial prejudice. Marijuana prohibition nevertheless continues to have a disproportionate impact on African Americans. Nationwide, according to a 2020 report from the American Civil Liberties Union, black people are 3.6 times as likely to be arrested for marijuana possession as white people, even though rates of cannabis consumption in the two groups are similar.
Such disparities extend beyond crack and marijuana. "Black and white Americans sell and use drugs at similar rates," the Brookings Institution reported in 2016, "but black Americans are 2.7 times as likely to be arrested for drug-related offenses." And "at the state level, blacks are 6.5 times as likely as whites to be incarcerated for drug-related crimes."
Progressive critics of the war on drugs are acutely aware of its bigoted history and ongoing racial disparities, which they emphasize at every opportunity. "The War on Drugs has been a war on people—particularly people of color," says the opening line of a legislative summary that Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D–N.Y.) and two of his colleagues, Sens. Cory Booker (D–N.J.) and Ron Wyden (D–Ore.), distributed when they unveiled a marijuana legalization bill in July. "The Cannabis Administration and Opportunity Act aims to end the decades of harm inflicted on communities of color by removing cannabis from the federal list of controlled substances and empowering states to implement their own cannabis laws."
The Black Tradition of Arms
These same legislators, like nearly all Democratic politicians, seem blind to similar problems with gun control, which they tend to reflexively support. In this respect, Booker—who favors federal gun licensing, a ban on "assault weapons," and a 10-round limit on magazines—is typical of African-American leaders, who are overwhelmingly Democrats and overwhelmingly support new restrictions on firearms. But as Fordham University law professor Nicholas Johnson shows in his 2014 book Negroes and the Gun, it was not always thus.
Johnson details the long "black tradition of arms" in America, beginning with the struggle against slavery and continuing through the murderous racist violence that followed the Civil War, the vicious oppression of the Jim Crow era, and the civil rights movement of the 1940s, '50s, and '60s. Black leaders such as Frederick Douglass, Ida B. Wells, W.E.B. Du Bois, T.R.M. Howard, Roy Wilkins, and Martin Luther King Jr. unambiguously endorsed the right to armed self-defense as a crucial safeguard against the racist aggression that government officials commonly ignored when they were not actively participating in it.
As a remedy against kidnappers who sought to return people like him to slavery, Douglass recommended "a good revolver, a steady hand and a determination to shoot down any man attempting to kidnap." Wells declared that "a Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every black home" and "should be used for that protection which the law refuses to give." Even King, the very embodiment of peaceful resistance, relied on firearms for "that protection."
In 1956, after his home in Birmingham, Alabama, was bombed, King applied for a permit to carry a gun. Despite the potentially deadly threats that King faced as a leader of the Montgomery bus boycott, the county sheriff said no. "I went to the sheriff to get a permit for those people who are guarding me," King told fellow protest organizers. "In substance, he was saying, 'You are at the disposal of the hoodlums.'" Several years later, King noted that "all societies" accept "violence exercised merely in self-defense" as "moral and legal," adding that "when the Negro uses force in self-defense, he does not forfeit support" and "may even win it, by the courage and self-respect it reflects."
Johnson notes that the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) "cut its organizational teeth" defending black people who resisted racist violence with firearms. Most prominently, the organization hired the famous trial lawyer Clarence Darrow to defend Detroit physician Ossian Sweet, who was charged with murder in 1925 after he and his friends used guns against a violent mob bent on evicting him and his family from a white neighborhood.
Sweet's victory was the centerpiece of a fundraising campaign that helped establish what is now the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund (LDF). The LDF, which grew out of the NAACP's legal department but has operated independently since 1957, won landmark victories against segregation, voting restrictions, and other forms of racial discrimination.
The Racist Roots of Gun Control
Just as African Americans widely recognized the potentially lifesaving value of firearms, white supremacists understood the threat that armed black people posed to the existing social order. "The historical record provides compelling evidence that racism underlies gun control laws—and not in any subtle way," historian Clayton Cramer noted in a 1995 Kansas Journal of Law and Public Policy article. "Throughout much of American history, gun control was openly stated as a method for keeping blacks and Hispanics 'in their place,' and to quiet the racial fears of whites."
Beginning in the 17th century, when Virginia prohibited black people, whether free or enslaved, from carrying weapons, the colonies and the states they became imposed a series of race-based restrictions on the possession of arms. After the 1831 slave uprising led by Nat Turner, Virginia made it illegal for free blacks to "keep or carry any firelock of any kind, any military weapon, or any powder or lead." Tennessee revised its constitutional guarantee of the right to arms, restricting it to "free white men."
Terrified at the prospect of further insurrections, legislators in Southern states prohibited the transfer of firearms to slaves, limited their use of these otherwise common tools to hunting expressly authorized by their masters, required free blacks to obtain gun licenses, and authorized the seizure of guns found in their homes. "Overall," legal scholars Robert Cottrol and Raymond Diamond observed in a 1991 Georgetown Law Journal article, early gun control laws "reflected the desire to maintain white supremacy and control."
If "negroes" were recognized as citizens, Supreme Court Chief Justice Roger Taney warned in the infamous 1857 case Dred Scott v. Sandford, they would be entitled to all "the privileges and immunities of citizens," including the right to "keep and carry arms wherever they went." After the Civil War, the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and the 14th Amendment aimed to make Taney's nightmare come true. The Civil Rights Act was a direct response to the postbellum Black Codes, which among other things restricted or prohibited gun possession by African Americans. It is likewise apparent from the debate leading up to the 1868 ratification of the 14th Amendment that the right to armed self-defense was one of the "privileges or immunities" it guaranteed to "all persons born or naturalized in the United States."
In practice, however, that right was frequently denied. Eight years after the 14th Amendment was ratified, in United States v. Cruikshank, the Supreme Court held that the federal government had no authority to stop members of terrorist groups like the Ku Klux Klan from disarming black people. It said the remedy for such private aggression lay with state governments.
Those same governments, meanwhile, were passing gun controls that were race-neutral on their face but racist in practice. The measures included bans on inexpensive handguns, which prefigured restrictions that Congress imposed nearly a century later, and discretionary carry permit laws, which resembled contemporary laws, still enforced by several states, that give local officials wide authority to decide who is allowed to bear arms. The latter policy gave police license to deny civil rights leaders like King the right to armed self-defense and to arrest those who dared to arm themselves in defiance of the law.
The Gun Control Act of 1968, which was largely a response to political assassinations, likewise was not officially aimed at disarming black people. But "among the act's most significant restrictions," Johnson notes, "were import limits on small, cheap handguns derided as 'Saturday Night Specials'—a label that combined references to cheap little guns dubbed 'Suicide Specials' and the tumult of 'Niggertown Saturday Night.'"
In his 1973 book The Saturday Night Special, investigative reporter Robert Sherrill concluded that members of Congress were trying to "shut off weapons access to blacks." Since legislators "probably associated cheap guns with ghetto blacks and thought cheapness was peculiarly the characteristic of imported military surplus and the mail-order traffic," he wrote, "they decided to cut off these sources while leaving over-the-counter purchases open to the affluent."
Similarly, California's Mulford Act, a 1967 law that banned the open carrying of loaded guns, was a response to armed Black Panther patrols in Oakland that aimed to police the police. The law was supported by then-Gov. Ronald Reagan and the National Rifle Association, later known as staunch defenders of the Second Amendment.
The Racially Skewed Impact of Gun Control
The Gun Control Act of 1968 also described broad categories of Americans who were not allowed to possess firearms, including "unlawful user[s]" of controlled substances and people convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for more than a year, meaning nearly all felonies. The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 made those disqualifications enforceable through background checks that federally licensed firearm dealers are required to conduct before completing sales.
Judging from federal survey data, the disqualification for illegal drug users theoretically applies to something like 60 million Americans. That includes people who use controlled substances prescribed for others or use them contrary to their doctor's instructions, along with all cannabis consumers, even if they live in states that have legalized marijuana. The survey data indicate that the rates of illegal drug use among black Americans and white Americans are nearly identical. But because African Americans are especially likely to be arrested for drug possession, they are especially likely to be caught violating this provision of the Gun Control Act if they own firearms.
The ban on gun possession by people with felony records applies no matter the nature of the crime or when it was committed. It disproportionately affects black men because they are disproportionately likely to have felony records. A 2017 study by University of Georgia sociologist Sarah Shannon found that 33 percent of male African Americans had been convicted of a felony, compared to 8 percent of the general population. In other words, millions of black men have permanently lost their Second Amendment rights, even if their crimes were nonviolent, occurred long ago, or both.
When someone who has a felony record is caught with a gun, that is another felony, punishable by up to 10 years in prison under federal law. In certain situations, mandatory minimum sentences apply to firearm offenses. When they do, the defendants are mostly black.
18 USC 924(c) prescribes a five-year mandatory minimum for anyone who possesses a firearm "in furtherance of" a drug trafficking offense or a crime of violence, whether or not he actually used it. The gun sentence, which must be served in addition to the sentence for the underlying offense, rises to 25 years for each subsequent violation. 18 USC 924(e), also known as the Armed Career Criminal Act, requires a 15-year mandatory minimum for a defendant caught with a gun after three or more convictions for "a violent felony or a serious drug offense." According to a 2018 report from the U.S. Sentencing Commission, about 53 percent of people sentenced under those two provisions in fiscal year 2016 were black, while 16 percent were white.
Racial disparities also can be seen at the state level. According to FBI data, African Americans, who represent about 14 percent of the U.S. population, accounted for 45 percent of arrests for weapon offenses in 2020.
Interracial differences in violent crime rates may account for some portion of these disparities. But that is clearly not the whole story, since even nonviolent drug offenses can make someone subject to arrest and punishment for violating gun laws. In fiscal year 2016, the U.S. Sentencing Commission found, the most common underlying offense triggering penalties under 18 USC 924(c) was drug trafficking, which accounted for 46 percent of cases; other weapon offenses accounted for an additional 8 percent. Furthermore, simply living in a jurisdiction with strict gun controls—which describes many cities with large black populations—makes an arrest for a weapon offense more likely.
In 2020, an anti-gun initiative in Washington, D.C., generated controversy because of its racially skewed impact. The program encouraged federal prosecution of people with felony records who illegally possessed firearms. Under the D.C. Code, that offense is punishable by at least a year in prison—three years if the original felony was violent. But sentences under federal law tend to be even more severe: nearly five years, on average, even when mandatory minimums don't apply.
D.C.'s felon-in-possession crackdown, which was backed by the District's African-American mayor, Muriel Bowser, was originally advertised as a citywide measure. But in practice, the program focused entirely on three police districts that overlapped with wards that were 64 percent to 92 percent black. By comparison, black people represented 45 percent of the District's total population. D.C. Council Member Charles Allen complained that the program "targeted District residents of color," imposing "harsh penalties on Black residents whose neighborhoods have historically been underinvested in and overpoliced."
The experience with New York City's "stop, question, and frisk" program, which was dramatically scaled back in 2014 after years of complaints that it routinely harassed young black and Latino men for no good reason, shows how gun control hurts racial minorities even when it does not send people to prison. Stop-and-frisk encounters almost never discovered guns—although they sometimes turned up pot, leading to arrests for "public display" of marijuana, another example of the malignant interaction between gun control and drug control. Then-Mayor Mike Bloomberg, a billionaire who bankrolls the gun control movement, was untroubled by the dearth of gun seizures. He said the program's aim was to reduce violence by deterring young men from carrying guns.
Although he did not seem to realize it, Bloomberg's rationale was inconsistent with the Fourth Amendment, which according to the Supreme Court requires that police reasonably suspect someone is involved in criminal activity before stopping him and reasonably suspect he is armed before frisking him. The fact that pat-downs rarely turned up weapons of any kind suggested that New York cops were frequently flouting that rule. But the assumption that anyone who actually had a firearm would be breaking the law was reasonable given the state's strict gun control regime, which reserves the privilege of bearing arms to people who can demonstrate "proper cause"—a standard that cannot be satisfied by asserting a general interest in self-defense.
Prosecuted for Exercising Their Rights
A case the Supreme Court is considering this term, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen, poses the question of whether the Empire State's carry permit policy is consistent with the constitutional right to bear arms. In a brief arguing that it is not, the Black Attorneys of Legal Aid and several other public defender organizations note that New York's virtual ban on public possession of firearms imposes a special burden on black and Latino residents.
"Each year," the brief says, "we represent hundreds of indigent people whom New York criminally charges for exercising their right to keep and bear arms. For our clients, New York's licensing requirement renders the Second Amendment a legal fiction. Worse, virtually all our clients whom New York prosecutes for exercising their Second Amendment rights are Black [or] Hispanic." That situation, the public defenders say, "is no accident," since "New York enacted its firearm licensing requirements to criminalize gun ownership by racial and ethnic minorities," and "that remains the effect of its enforcement by police and prosecutors today."
They are referring to the Sullivan Act of 1911, which required a license to own handguns and "gave local police broad discretion to decide who could obtain one." The brief quotes gun policy scholar David Kopel, who describes the Sullivan Act as a response to "concerns about organized labor, the huge number of immigrants, and race riots in which some blacks defended themselves with firearms." The brief notes that the law was enacted after "years of hysteria over violence that the media and the establishment attributed to racial and ethnic minorities—particularly Black people and Italian immigrants."
The public defenders say the restrictions inspired by such concerns continue to have a "brutal" impact on minority groups: "New York police have stopped, questioned, and frisked our clients on the streets. They have invaded our clients' homes with guns drawn, terrifying them, their families, and their children. They have forcibly removed our clients from their homes and communities and abandoned them in dirty and violent jails and prisons for days, weeks, months, and years. They have deprived our clients of their jobs, children, livelihoods, and ability to live in this country. And they have branded our clients as 'criminals' and 'violent felons' for life. They have done all of this only because our clients exercised a constitutional right."
Benjamin Prosser, for example, "was prosecuted for carrying a gun for self-defense after he was the victim of multiple violent stranger assaults and street robberies." Sam Little, "who had survived a face slashing and lost multiple friends to gun violence, was prosecuted after carrying a gun to defend himself and his young son."
Shelly Parker and Otis McDonald—African-American plaintiffs who challenged local handgun bans in Washington, D.C., and Chicago, respectively—were animated by similar concerns. Since they could not rely on the government to protect them from violent criminals, they thought, it added insult to injury for the government to prevent them from protecting themselves by keeping handguns in their homes for self-defense. Those cases led to landmark Supreme Court decisions finding such laws inconsistent with the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. The question now is whether the Court will extend that logic beyond the home.
Does Gun Control 'Protect Black People'?
If the Supreme Court does rule against New York's carry permit law, it will be rejecting the position urged by the organization that grew out of a fundraising campaign built on the successful defense of Ossian Sweet and other African Americans who armed themselves against racist aggression. The NAACP LDF, which describes itself as "the nation's first and foremost civil rights and racial justice organization," thinks the Court should uphold New York's law because "history supports [its] authority to impose public carry restrictions, particularly to protect black people."
The NAACP LDF's brief in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen, which was joined by the National Urban League, says restrictions on public possession of firearms are an "important tool" in "addressing the vexing problem of handgun violence in cities," which disproportionately harms African Americans. Ignoring the role that guns in the hands of black people historically played in resisting white supremacist violence, the brief instead emphasizes the danger that guns in the hands of white supremacists posed to black people. It acknowledges that "past or present-day racial discrimination in the enforcement of gun regulations is a grave and unconstitutional harm." But it says the remedy is enforcing the 14th Amendment's guarantee of equal protection.
By contrast, the NAACP decided to support repealing the federal ban on marijuana after concluding that the war on weed discriminates against racial minorities. In 2010, years before the national organization took that position, its California chapter described legalization as a civil rights issue, saying pot prohibition "has been unfairly applied to our young people of color."
The NAACP LDF's position in the New York gun case exemplifies a shift in thinking that was already underway by the late 1960s. Johnson identifies three reasons mainstream African-American organizations like the NAACP, which had long embraced the black tradition of arms, became full-throated supporters of gun control.
Moderate black leaders, who had always tried to maintain a distinction between armed self-defense and political violence, found that the emergence of militant groups like the Black Panthers made drawing that line harder. After "a strong black political class rose on the wave of a progressive coalition," Johnson says, newly empowered African-American leaders tended to take their policy cues from that coalition, which supported tighter restrictions on firearms. And "as black-on-black violence commanded increasing attention, gun bans promised a solution with the compelling logic of no guns equals no gun crime." The upshot was an alliance that seems natural today but looks surprising from a longer historical perspective.
The NAACP sued gun manufacturers in 1999 for fostering violent crime by "oversupplying" firearms—a claim that a federal jury rejected in 2003. Jesse Jackson, who in 1988 became the first black candidate for a major party's presidential nomination to win primary contests, was arrested in 2007 for blocking the entrance to a suburban gun store that he said helped Chicago residents violate the city's handgun ban. Three years later, the Supreme Court overturned that ban, which was similar to a Washington, D.C., law it had deemed unconstitutional in 2008. The NAACP LDF took the government's side in both cases.
Conspicuously Exercising Their Rights
Academics such as Johnson, Cottrol, and Diamond are not the only African-American dissenters from this anti-gun orthodoxy. According to a 2017 Pew Research Center survey, 24 percent of black adults in the United States owned guns, compared to 36 percent of white adults. More-recent data suggest the gap may be shrinking.
Gun sales surged in 2020, a year marked by pandemic-related uncertainty and widespread, sometimes violent protests against police abuse. The National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF), a trade group, reported that an unusually large share of buyers—40 percent in early 2020—were first-time gun owners. According to an NSSF survey of gun dealers, sales to black customers were up 58 percent in the first half of 2020 compared to the same period in 2019.
Deviation from the anti-gun norm also can be seen on a more organized level. Since 2015, the National African American Gun Association, which has chapters in most states, has sought to "motivate as many African American men and women [as possible] to go out and purchase a firearm for self-defense and to take training on proper gun use." That group and Black Guns Matter, both of which filed briefs urging the Supreme Court to reject New York's carry permit law, argue that armed self-defense has been essential in vindicating African Americans' civil rights.
The Dallas-based Huey P. Newton Gun Club, founded in 2014, explicitly takes a page from the Black Panthers, responding to police abuse by conspicuously exercising the right to bear arms. "We are proposing armed self-defense as it relates to the situation with black people here in America when it comes to dealing with police departments," the group's founder, Charles Goodson, told Reason's Zach Weissmueller in 2015. "We've gotten a lot of response from conservative people, you know, National Rifle Association [members]. We don't consider ourselves to the far right or the far left."
Brent Holmes, a Virginia activist who attracted attention by conspicuously carrying guns to Richmond protests against police brutality, likewise thinks it is important for African Americans to assert their Second Amendment rights. "I believe that I'm channeling my ancestors," he told Reason contributor Qinling Li in 2020.
The Not Fucking Around Coalition (NFAC), a self-described "black militia" based in Atlanta, takes a similar approach. The group sent 300 openly armed members to a July 2020 protest in Louisville, Kentucky, that was inspired by the fatal police shooting of Breonna Taylor the previous March.
More Gun Control = More Black Prisoners
It seems unlikely that the in-your-face assertion of Second Amendment rights favored by groups like NFAC, or even the lower-key support for armed self-defense exemplified by the National African American Gun Association, will gain much traction among black politicians. To the contrary, most of them are bent on imposing new firearm restrictions that would expand the opportunities to lock up members of their community.
Sheila Jackson Lee's 2021 bill, which would establish a federal system to license gun owners and register their firearms, prescribes severe minimum penalties for anyone who violates its requirements. That's a striking departure from Jackson Lee's support for sentencing reform and her criticism of a criminal justice system that is "often more effective at creating criminals and collateral damage than actual justice."
Jackson Lee's registration requirement applies to currently owned firearms as well as guns purchased after the bill takes effect. The bill would give current owners three months to report "the make, model, and serial number of the firearm, the identity of the owner of the firearm, the date the firearm was acquired by the owner, and where the firearm is or will be stored," along with "the identity of any person to whom, and any period of time during which, the firearm will be loaned to the person." New buyers would have to report that information on the date of purchase. Failure to comply would be punishable by a minimum fine of $75,000, a minimum prison sentence of 15 years, or both.
Under Jackson Lee's bill, every gun owner would have to obtain a federal license, limited to people 21 or older who pass a criminal background check, undergo a "psychological examination," complete at least 24 hours of training, and pay an $800 "fee" for liability insurance. The bill would expand the already overbroad federal criteria that disqualify people from gun ownership to encompass anyone who was ever treated in a hospital (even voluntarily) for a "brain disease" or a "mental illness." It also would authorize denial of a license to anyone who "has a chronic mental illness or disturbance, or a brain disease," is addicted to alcohol or illegal drugs, has attempted suicide, or has "engaged in conduct that posed a danger to self or others," as determined by "prior psychological treatment or evaluation."
If an applicant did not survive this gauntlet, it would be a felony for him to possess a firearm, punishable by the same fine and prison sentence as failure to register the weapon. That applies to current owners as well as new buyers. People who have been licensed for less than five years would have to renew their licenses every year; people who have been licensed five years or longer would be eligible for three-year licenses. If a gun owner neglected to renew his license, he would be subject to the same penalties as someone who never got one.
The system Jackson Lee imagines is completely impractical, since gun owners would be understandably reluctant to identify themselves and their firearms so they could be entered in a federal database and required to apply for licenses. Politicians pursuing far less ambitious gun registration schemes have found that voluntary compliance is the exception rather than the rule. Since the Justice Department would not have the resources to go after millions of recalcitrant gun owners even if it knew who they were, the result would be arbitrary application of Jackson Lee's draconian penalties to the few who happened to attract the government's attention.
Who would those people tend to be? As a legislator who decries racial bias in policing, Jackson Lee ought to know.
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Duh! Show me any civilization that allowed its slaves to be armed.
Historical example of gun control being racist indeed.
Is a “well regulated militia” racist?
Note that “well regulated” doesn’t refer to “government regulations”. In the 18th century, the term meant “skilled”.
What the 2A says is: “A country needs citizens who are skilled marksmen, own guns, and are willing to defend the country when necessary”.
No, it meant both. And evidence of "regulated" as meaning "disciplined", as in "subject to military discipline", abounds from that time. Make no mistake, people have always been at least a little nervous about pointing out the value of widespread weapons ownership, and they really did include that phrase as an attempt to get over objections and fuzz the issue a bit. How an extra, ungrammatic comma slipped in after "militia" is odd but actually doesn't affect the meaning.
Note that no such "argument" phrase was needed in other parts of the Bill of Rights. They didn't feel compelled to write, "Religious practice being beneficial to the people as their respective states see fit, Congress shall make no law...." Which means they really went out of their way to seem to fudge or hedge the right to keep and bear arms.
That may be so, but the operative clause refers to the right of the "people" to keep and bear arms, the same "people" used in the Preamble and also in the Declaration of Independence. Regardless of the meaning and motivations behind the prefatory militia clause, it's clear the authors were referring to the people of the United States having the right to keep and bear arms.
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It's easy to get sidetracked with silly arguments like Roberta makes. However, this article is also full of bullshit and typically, woke Sullum attempts to create the woke libertarian position that everything he doesn't like is racist.
Yes, you can always find a racist amongst those who advocate non-libertarian policies but that doesn't make the policy racist or everyone who wants the policy a racist. It's many things including authoritarian and stupid, and many things perhaps even started with some racist intention. However, that doesn't mean those policies exist today because of racism.
I don't know whether Sullum lacks the intellectual ability or is just intellectually lazy. A clock that flashes 12:00 accidentally aligns twice a day but that doesn't mean it's right twice a day. Sullum is rarely correct but when that happens, it's always for the wrong reason.
What have you contributed?
No. It does not mean as subject to military discipline. You had to go 3 levels of Kevin bacon to reach that.
Not at all. The militia while in service have always been understood that way.
But remember the key difference between army and militia troops; when "called out" by the current governing authorities, the militia can say "no".
Traditionally, militia units would form on their own, elect their leaders, and then offer their services to the army, often with conditions like "just until the harvest", or "just in this county", or the like. This is why the National Guard, subject to federalization and incorporation into army (air) units are not militia.
Well regulated implying training and certification in safe and responsible firearm use to protect the state.
No it doesn't. Regulated meant wrll functioning and equipped.
Farmers abd hunters knew how to fire guns without military training. What is this revisionist history?
From federalist paper 29 regarding militia.
“to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by congress.”
This demonstrates that training and certification “prescribed by Congress” was clearly represented by the federalist papers.
To provide for. That doesn't mean that is the only reason. It is a precondition of arming the military and having a militia of all able bodied men.
Learn how English works.
It is clear that the federalist paper defined that a well regulated militia meant one that was trained and ready to act in accordance with military when required. That can only be done through training to meet criteria/certification.
Because the first sentence of 2a describes a well regulated militia as being necessary before ensuring the right to bear arms, it’s clear that they meant that those who bear arms must be able to meet the criteria of a militia. Training and certification:
The entire paper, is here
http://thefederalistpapers.org/federalist-papers/federalist-paper-29-concerning-the-militia
No. From what you posted it is clear they intended to have an armed populace they could call in service of the militia.
Sure, that’s the same thing.
If you aren’t trained and certified you can’t be in the militia or bear arms.
I mean unless it’s your contention that the right to bear arms was intended to apply to everyone, lunatics, children etc.
Well, that would leave you out.
Rob sure knows his revisionist history.
The militia as defined was any able bodied man above the age of 16. No military training was required prior to a call up. What are you talking about??
17 to 45.
Look up the militia act of 1794 to see who they considered the militia...All males of the age of 17 and 45.
Further, what was the militia in 1786? Not the national guard. Officers were elected locally, and they were responsible for holding regular drills. There was no regular enlistment as we know today, it was whoever showed up (usually on a Saturday) to drill. When the militia was called out (as it frequently was as the militia was also the only "organized" law enforcement of the time) it was whichever male who was available. They rarely had any uniforms, and were expected to provide their own weapons. In fact many states required, by law, all male heads of family and single males to have available weapons of suitable military use available at all times, and adequate ammunition. This is exactly how the militias functioned in England at the time and was part of English common law dating back to William the Conqueror. Since US jurist prudence is based on English Common Law, it would only be logical that the 2A, even if it were merely a militia law, was meant as a way for people to own firearms. This is further supported by every militia act Congress ever passed. Even the most recent militia act (passed in the early 20th century and established the National Guard federally) recognizes two types of militia, the regular militia (National Guard) and irregular militia (all males between the age of 17 and 45). This is also the foundations of the selective service laws, because as members of the irregular reserve males between those ages can be called up for federal service.
To expand further, nobles were appointed by the king to provide so many men in battle. The majority of the men were of the yeoman class, not the nobility. In fact from the 14th through the 16th century all yeoman were required by law to own a longbow (the assault weapon of the time) and practice with it weekly.
This contributed to the English dominance in the first half of the 100 yrs war, and led to such lopsided victories as Crecy and Agincourt.
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No, you're all getting it wrong. "Regulated" in that sense in those days meant "equipped". "Well regulated" meant properly or uniformly equipped. This sense of the word still survives in our use of the word "regulars" to refer to uniformed soldiers carrying standard weapons and equipment. The expressed wish that the militia be "well regulated" meant that they wanted men to be able to show up for duty carrying suitable arms for warfare, and not clubs, hatchets, and pitchforks.
This.
How is this still being argued by some. This is well researched and known at this point.
From federalist paper 29 regarding militia.
“to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by congress.”
This demonstrates that training and certification “prescribed by Congress” was clearly represented by the federalist papers.
Where in the Constitution can we find Federalist 29?
To provide for was one reason to allow people to have arms.
Do you not understand how English works?
It is clear that the federalist paper defined that a well regulated militia meant one that was trained and ready to act in accordance with military when required. That can only be done through training to meet criteria/certification.
Because the first sentence of 2a describes a well regulated militia as being necessary before ensuring the right to bear arms, it’s clear that they meant that those who bear arms must be able to meet the criteria of a militia. Training and certification:
The entire paper, is here
http://thefederalistpapers.org/federalist-papers/federalist-paper-29-concerning-the-militia
Lol.
You can read it but it helps if you understood it.
Ditto
You can’t be a well regulated militia, bearing arms unless you’re trained and certified.
What would be the point of the criteria “well regulated” if there wasn’t a penalty for not being well regulated?
I is clear that those words were chosen carefully.
The misguided argument you advance aside, well-regulated in the case of a militia's training would be referring to operating together as a unit, small unit tactics. Additionally, the ability to operate with other units, as you mention elsewhere. This is not an argument that supports gun ownership, unless one is suggesting that only the military or veterans own firearms.
Omitting that militia regulations would primarily include safe responsible firearm use in any situation only weakens your position.
I’ve made my point and you’ve all but accepted it.
Your first sentence is okay. Then you put your spin on it and define the way you think it must be done.... First without understanding the word "regulated" [not in the way that Democrats understand regulation in modern times].
Second, presuming you've made it through the 8th grade, you have a surprisingly ignorant understanding of history. At least until after the Civil War, a substantial portion of troops were not trained troops, much less "certified" in anything. They were citizen volunteers who showed up, hopefully got a uniform, and nobody ever checked they knew which end of a gun to point, much less could hit anything. A military training approach was first introduced in 1888 at the Elmira Reformatory in Elmira, New York and had not become ubiquitous until WWl.
A well regulated anything means that it functions as intended demonstrably meeting all the criteria to do so.
A driving licence is the result of a well regulated transportation system.
The fact that people can drive without licences doesn’t mean they should.
There’s nothing unreasonable about driving or gun ownership licenses.
That wisdom was spelled out in the first line of 2a.
“ A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed”
Note the commas, not periods. A well regulated militia describes the criteria to bear arms.
Not in this context.
The Constitution doesn't grant the federal government the power to restrict gun ownership at all, so the 2A don't grant you any rights you didn't already have.
All of the Bill of Rights was intended only as extra insurance against blockheads and authoritarians.
Gun controllers are always trying to wedge their agenda into the words of the Constitution through redefinition, through technical semantic arguments that wouldn't prohibit you from enacting your agenda, or by creating bogus historical context and/or 'original intent' out of whole cloth.
What you can't argue is that other than a few attempts by gun nazi's, we have had 232 years of right to bear arms, including over 30 of post-2nd A history being occupied by those who wrote it and had plenty of opportunity to object to how it was perceived if they wanted to, and they didn't.
Continuing to argue the Constitution on this matter is just silly. Admit that you don't care about the constitutionality of your agenda and that you're trying to avoid the hard work of actually amending the Constitution.
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My paraphrasing of the 2A would be a bit different.
"Because the government will obviously need a professional military force, therefore the citizens must be allowed to own weapons to defend themselves."
Right. But they could've saved us a lot of trouble if they'd left out the explanatory phrase. What if people wanted weapons just to have fun?
I can see it: “Plinking at Bottlef and Squirrelf being quite enjoyable, the right of the people to keep and bear Armf (completely random comma) shall not be infringed.” 🙂
Idoit
I feel sad for Dee when she tries to make a funny.
Dee! You bitch!
It doesn't restrict the usage to only militia service, nothing in the wording suggests that. It says one reason for the right to bear arms is militia service but not the only one.
The Constitution does not create rights, it limits the government. It lists the powers enumerated to the federal government. It identifies that there are powers reserved to the States and powers reserved to the People.
The 2A mentions all three, and reserves the power to keep and bear arms exclusively to the People. Regardless of commas and phrasing, it is incontrovertibly an individual right that shall not be infringed by the federal or state governments through legislation, executive order, or the courts. Supreme Court Chief Justice Taney acknowledged this as a right without exception as late as the 1850s.
I don't think I said anything differently.
I was agreeing with you. I have the bozo you were responding to on mute.
Since the Bill of Rights doesn't grant any rights that aren't already part of the original Constitution, I don't see what concerns you have.
That is, the federal government lacked the power to limit your ownership of weapons "just to have fun" (e.g. hunting) even without the 2A.
OK, that’s a really odd interpretation. Having rights explicitly spelled out in the Bill of Rights is not the same at all as vaguely specified rights in the main body of the Constitution.
The Constitution doesn't specify rights at all; the US Constitution enumerates powers that are granted to the federal government.
9A and 10A clarify that as well: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
The power to restrict gun ownership isn't delegated to the United States. Nothing needs to specify a right to own guns; you have that right naturally, and the federal government lacks the power to limit that right.
Keeping and bearing arms for hunting game, target shooting, and fun would be covered by the 9th Amendment.:
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Moreover, even if the meaning of the 2nd Amendment was in doubt, the 9th Amendment would have made individual right to keep wnd bear arms for all reasons not violating the rights of others abundantly clear.
Demonstrating proficiency and responsibility before bearing arms anywhere is reasonable.
Like different licences are required for operating various vehicles, the licence for WMD would be prohibitive.
Lie.
"Allow" is Govt permission.
Not allowed by the 2A
Your subversive paraphrasing is the Living Constitution bullshit.
Fail
Yeah!
Well regulated means properly functioning. It comes from clock making. A clock that kept proper time was considered to be well regulated.
Having criteria to meet requires training and certification.
What would be the point of having criteria if there wasn’t a penalty for not meeting it.
The criteria of a well regulated militia has to mean proficiency in safe and responsible firearm use under pressure. Not simply having a pulse/functioning.
Please provide documentation of how this "certification" was tested for and issued in the 1780s. Surely some of these certification cards survived, and you'll be able to supply an image. Unless you're just making shit up.
The 2A doesn't say "we grant you the right to own arms as long as you are proficient".
The 2A says: "The original Constitution already implicitly prohibits the federal government from limiting gun ownership. This prohibition is very important to a functioning republic, because in a functioning republic, the citizens own weapons and are able to defend the republic against enemies foreign and domestic. Therefore, we repeat this limit on federal government powers explicitly here."
By beginning 2a with “a well regulated militia being necessary” it is clearly obvious that the right is limited to the proficient, responsible and law abiding.
The right was never intended to apply to criminals, lunatics and children.
"A car being necessary for your commute, you must have a car." That doesn't imply that your use of the car is limited to commuting.
In fact, the 2A doesn't grant you rights you didn't already have under the original constitution, so it certainly can't "limit" rights.
Criminals, lunatics, and children are under the control of their respective guardians, for anything they do.
it is clearly obvious that the right is limited to the proficient, responsible and law abiding.
That is silly. The brandishing of arms to threaten or intimidate was already recognized in the common law as something apart from the peaceful bearing of arms. As was the right of a guardian to restrict the freedom of their ward and of the state to restrict the freedom of a prisoner.
So you agree that criteria limiting the right to bear arms exists for criminals, lunatics and children.
Where does the constitution spell that out?
The first line of 2a.
Criminals, lunatics, and children lose most of their autonomy and natural liberties under the Constitution. I.e., they also lose their "rights" to free speech, free association, entering into contracts, etc.
That fact has nothing to do with the 2A.
It is entirely unclear what mental gymnastics you employed to conflate “freedom of assembly” with criteria to bear arms.
If you can explain it, fill your boots.
It is entirely unclear what mental gymnastics you employed to arrive at "Criminals, lunatics, and children lost their right to own guns because of the 'well regulated militia' clause in the 2A."
I'm stating a simple fact: "Criminals, lunatics, and children have lost most of their constitutional rights (including the right to own and bear arms) because they do not have the same status as free citizens. The 2A has nothing to do with it."
I don't know how I can state it any more plainly. Either you are being deliberately obtuse, or you are actually dumb enough to believe what you are saying and I don't know how to explain this to someone like you any better.
A well regulated militia would not employ children, lunatics or criminals.
What legitimate military or quasi military organization would?
Yes, obviously true. Neither would the local bakery or NASA. What's your point?
The fact remains that the 2A rights of "children, lunatics or criminals" are limited for the same reason their 1A rights are limited: they aren't fully legally competent Americans. The job requirements for a militia have nothing whatsoever to do with that.
“ fully legally competent Americans. “
Hahaha
I'm not sure what you think is funny about it. "Legally competent" is a legal term. I suggest you look it up.
“ if you are a legally competent adult US citizen without a prior felony conviction, you have a right to own guns.”
That’s not in the constitution. A well regulated militia is.
You’re cherry picking the part of 2a you want as law and ignoring necessary constitutional criteria going elsewhere to the courts for the answer you want.
Courts don’t supersede the constitution.
That's right, they don't supersede it, Rob. And that's why we only have authoritarian training requirements in the most unamerican states. I'm sure you would have a good time in California. Your common ground with them would be hate for facts and history.
Rob, you still start with the erroneous assumption that the 2A establishes the right to bear arms. It does not. It merely affirms it.
If that affirmation Is limited to “militias”, that is still not a limit on the right to bear arms. It could say “you have a right to bear arms on Mondays” and the right works still exist on other days.
The US isn’t a country of enumerated rights, it is a country of delegated powers.
the miIitia is well regulated not the people
The discussion about what someone meant in 1789 about the 2nd amendment is irrelevant. SCOTUS has clarified that it is an individual right. PERIOD.
If you don't like that or for whatever reason want to change it, for the love of god, please do it the right way with an amendment, not the hope and prayer of shifting the court balance.
You use a biased court decision to support changing the application of the constitution when it suits you but plead not to do so when it’s not what you want.
Your hypocrisy demonstrates the problem.
The US Constitution has always prevented the federal government from restricting gun ownership.
What you call a "biased court decision" also prevented state and local governments from restricting gun ownership.
It seems you don't even know what you are trying to argue for: federal gun control or state gun control.
I’m arguing for reasonably gun laws.
This article lauded removing clearly demonstrated proficiency from the requirement to bear arms.
I demonstrated that the first line of 2a “a well regulated militia” was intentionally the preamble and prerequisite to the next line “to bear arms”.
This also excludes criminals, lunatics and children from beating arms, which any rational person would consider reasonable.
When irrational people fight for unreasonable laws, even with the best intentions, if accepted, they only serve to weaken our rights.
I think I have the reasonable right to not be threatened by criminals, lunatics and children bearing arms.
And the right to think that the person bearing arms next to me has demonstrated proficiency.
Like a drivers licence does on the roads.
Nope, sorry, under the US Constitution, you don't have that right; that's because that power hasn't been delegated to the federal government.
Prior to 2010, states had the option to impose such requirements; it is unclear whether they still can.
There is no constitutionally protected right to a chariot or car that shall not be infringed, Rob. Try harder. You equating transportation devices with the devices that protect our bodies and freedoms shows how little you understand. Despite being an old man by now, I assume.
"Reasonable" in what sense? It's crystal clear that gun laws do not reduce gun violence.
The only way the federal government can enact gun laws is if that power is explicitly granted to it. But the 2A does not do that. That is, with or without the 2A, the federal government simply lacks any delegated power to impose what you call "reasonable gun laws". Only states can do that.
You can say that again: you are a primary example.
Yes, and both federal and state governments can limit gun ownership and carrying of "criminals, lunatics and children". They can also limit gun ownership and carrying of non-citizens.
What the federal government can't do is limit gun ownership and carrying of law abiding, legally competent American citizens. It can't do that because there is no clause in the Constitution or Bill of Rights that grants it that power.
It’s Misek. He’s arguing for his fantasy fourth reich to decide who is ‘reasonably’ allowed to own guns, and I’m sure it won’t be ‘reasonable’ for Jews. Which makes it easier to ‘reasonably’ herd them onto rail cars. Where they will totally not be exterminated.
Where does the constitution state that rights only apply to
“ legally competent American citizens.”
If you can’t demonstrate that you’re full of shit.
Legal competency is a fundamental legal concept; I suggest you simply look it up.
You don't even ask the correct question. The US Constitution doesn't grant rights, it delegates powers.
“ if you are a legally competent adult US citizen without a prior felony conviction, you have a right to own guns.”
That’s not in the constitution. A well regulated militia is.
You’re cherry picking the part of 2a you want as law and ignoring necessary constitutional criteria going elsewhere to the courts for the answer you want.
Courts don’t supersede the constitution.
Copy pasta just makes you look like sqrl. Doesnt make you look smart or informed or something.
Although you’ve replied to every post you haven’t refuted what I’ve said.
You obviously can’t understand that the constitution stated the reasonable need for training and certification to bear arms, or that firearm use is at least as complex and potentially hazardous as vehicle use is.
Rob, you’re wrong on two points.
First, the “militia” qualifier in the 2A does not mean “a requirement for reasonable need for training and certification”, no matter how often you say otherwise. That’s both obvious from the language, and it’s also obvious from how militias and gun ownership have operated historically in the US.
But even if it did mean that, it would still not matter because the right to bear arms isn’t granted by the 2A. The right to bear arms exists because the power to restrict gun ownership hasn’t been delegated in the US Constitution. The 2A simply affirms this.
2a is the only place in the constitution where the right to bear arms is enumerated and in the same sentence with the limit being to meet the criteria of a well regulated militia.
The constitution identifies rights, limits on government and limits on the rights enjoyed by the people.
The well regulated militia part is not restricting the peoples right to keep and bear arms in any way. You are such an obsolete, revisionist loser.
I am confused: Does the Constitution mean that a “well regulated militia” is STILL LEGAL if it does not support a stolen election?
Apparently it is ILLEGAL as long as Mainstream Media says it is illegal.
Perhaps one of you can explain that to me…
Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)
Gladiators were armed slaves of Rome.
There is much speculation that ancient Greek states uses slaves in warfare (see battles at Marathon and Chaeronea)
The Ottoman Empire used slaves in its army.
Those empires lasted a while. They became large and powerful with armed citizen. Later, they went on to arming their slaves when the citizens were too pampered and lazy to fight for themselves… resulting in slave revolts and the eventual downfall of those empires. Rome eventually was taken over by its former slaves and mercenaries.
In the modern world, the equivalent is a military putsch in a country with unarmed citizens.
Yeah, but "eventual" meant "over centuries". You tell people now that a certain policy will make things good in the jurisdiction for 50 years, they'll jump on it as great.
The US is following the path of these other once great nations and empires and is reaching its end as as prosperous, free nation of free citizens.
People like you are responsible.
Not following what Roberta did to cause the decline of the American nation.
Gladiators weren't armed 24/7.
You could be a free man and be a gladiator.
I was under the impression when a free man became a gladiator, they basically sold themself to the school for a fixed amount of time
"Duh! Show me any civilization that allowed its slaves to be armed"
The Mamluks. The Black Guard or ‘Abid al-Bukhari of the Sultan of Morroco. The Ghilman of the Safavid, Afsharid and Qajar empires. The Ottoman Empires Janissaries and other Devshirme armies. The Chikunda/Achicunda of the Afro-Portuguese estates. The Merikins/Merikens used by the US in the War of 1812. The Neodamodes were helots serving as hoplites in the Spartan army. Judar Pasha was a slave eunuch who led a slave army under the Saadian sultan Ahmad al-Mansur. The Scythian archers were a slave police force of 5th-century BC Athens.
Granted many of these slave soldiers were no ordinary chattel slaves. They often had wealth, power and respect greater than ordinary free subjects or citizens, but they were also literally property of their owners.
ML January.13.2022 at 4:06 pm
Hey, are you ever going to apologize for lying about the Michigan Republican Man of the year award?
Lie number 6 Trump was told many times this award didn't exist, but you lied about it more than he did.
Didn't you ever learn not to lie? Leviticus 19:11“’Do not LIE. “’Do not DECEIVE one another.
Hey ᛋᛋqrlsy.
Are you ever going to apologize for misrepresenting Trump's statements about being awarded about the Michigan Republican of the Year award?
Lie #125,349,620. That Trump wasn't given an award by the Michigan Republicans.
You are correct for the FIRST time. You FINALLY learned not to include "MAN". You must be ready to apologize for you many lies about me.
Who the fuck gives a shit? Pettifogging about irrelevant terminology when the substance is the same. What is he? A woman? A horse? A housecat?
This is why everyone thinks you're evil and retarded.
Fact: Republican of the Year Award. (Notice no "MAN)
LIE: Man of the Year award.
Fact: I never lied about any of these. (You lied twice in one 3:56 post)
ML January.13.2022 at 3:51 pm
No, he was awarded a man of the year presentation from the Michigan Republicans.
Lie number 1, no, he WAS awarded Republican of the Year award. Not "MAN" of the year or Republican "MAN" of the year. Close but
still a lie.
You say: "when the substance is the same. " You are wrong again, what I say is the truth, NO "MAN' and the lie trump said "MAN". In this discussion, "MAN" is the proof of a lie.
ML January.13.2022 at 3:56 pm
The stupid thing is that because Trump said he got the "Michigan Man of the Year Award", rather than the "Michigan Republican Man of the Year Award" he's some sort of liar.
Lie number 2, No, he got Republican of the year award, instead of "MAN" OF THE YEAR. Close but no cookie. Lie number 3, he won Republican of the year award, not Republican "MAN" of the year. 3 strikes. Again I will point out, if what you state has "MAN" in it, it is a lie. Another point is Mich. would NOT give a Mich. "MAN" of the year to someone who doesn't or never lived in Mich.
Side note: trump has lied 100,000+ times in his life and it is almost assumed when he says something, it is a lie. He is some SORT of liar. You're a liar "MAN".
You say "irrelevant terminology" but "MAN" is an important difference between the truth and a lie. There is one person standing here who doesn't think, I am "evil and retarded". Again, I have proven your "everyone" statement is another of your statements proven to be a fabrication.
Everything you just wrote was a lie, ᛋᛋqrlsy.
Are you like a scientologist or something?
Fact: Republican of the Year Award. FACT. Did you see the word FACT? That means I did NOT say it was a lie, as you proclaim. That also means he DIDN'T lie. He won that award. It also means he told the TRUTH. Write it down, he doesn't do it very often.
I am NOT ᛋᛋqrlsy. That is another LIE told by you.
Are you like a scientologist or something?
I am not a scientologist or something.
Did you fall down and hit your head?
You’re probably a phrenologist.
60% retarded, 40% evil.
Lol. You seem to be really, um….. focused, there db. Or obsessed.
Get a new hobby, dude. Nobody cares.
Why is it I can EASILY look up and verify the award trump DID win, Michigan Republican of the year, and I CAN'T find the Michigan "MAN" of the year, but a lot of sites verify it is not real?
The English until the 20th century.
Yes, some slaves were armed, forcibly for the purpose of war and entertainment.
Were any allowed to voluntarily arm themselves for self defence? Would they still be considered slaves if they were?
The Mamluks, the Janissaries and many others, and they were considered slaves by the fact that they were owned. They were legally property.
Their social positions were often very high, higher than some low ranking nobility, and they weren't treated like plantation or galley slaves.
Mother's Lament (ML) also known as Judas Iscariot.
Fact: Republican of the Year Award. (Notice no "MAN)
LIE: Man of the Year award.
Fact: I never lied about any of this. (You lied twice in 3:56 post)
Who do you think you're tricking, you lie about everything Sqrlsy. It's your schtick.
Sqrlsy? Another of your lies? Come on "MAN" you're slipping up, most of your lies have "MAN" in them.
You're not tricking anyone.
I am just telling the truth; you should try it sometime. I am not good at tricks, truth is much, much easier, you should try it.
I’m surprised you haven’t slammed that ‘Tim the enchanter’ shit.
That interesting but I don’t think allowing yourself to be sold as property in exchange for wealth and comfort constitutes slavery.
From wiki
While Mamluks were purchased as property,[2] their status was above ordinary slaves, who were not allowed to carry weapons
While Mamluks were purchased as property,[2] their status was above ordinary slaves
Well yes. That's exactly what I said.
But ownership is the key to slavery, not the relative wealth and comfort, or lack of, you're kept in.
slavery
[ sley-vuh-ree, sleyv-ree ]noun
- the condition of being enslaved, held, or owned as human chattel or property; bondage.
- a practice or institution that treats or recognizes some human beings as the legal property of others.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/slavery
Sally Hemmings was legally Jefferson's slave despite living in comfort as mistress of Monticello and his common-law wife. Victorian matchgirls were legally free despite working long hours in inhumane conditions.
The Janissaries had so much power that they appointed and removed the sultans who owned them, but individually they were property.
Trump’s claim is vague enough — he hasn’t provided an exact year or the name of the organization that supposedly honored him — that it makes it nearly impossible to entirely disprove. But the responsibility to back-up political claims rests with the politicians who made them, and in this case, neither the White House nor Trump’s presidential campaign has provided any information on the president’s boast. Side note: Trump puts ALL his awards on the walls of his golf courses, even his fake Time magazine cover, which they forced him to take down, nobody has ever seen this "MAN" of the Year Award. If any such proof ever emerges, we’ll update our story. I just checked no update to his lie.
By your logic even if a person chooses to be treated as chattel to enjoy wealth and power, they are still a slave.
Then entering any contract that limits freedom is tantamount to slavery. Like an NDA.
Would you agree?
Are you being obtuse deliberately? This definition isn't arbitrary, It's ancient and legally defined as such.
If you're owned by a person or organization, if you're property, you're a slave.
If you have your own personal agency you're free.
Your other circumstances and rights are irrelevant to the definition.
Donald Trump Admits to Just Making Up Awards in Newly Resurfaced Video
The president confesses to giving himself bogus awards "all the time" in the 2011 video. He answered his own question by running footage of Trump in 2011 confessing to an audience in Australia that he gives himself bogus awards “all the time.”
“And then I announce, ‘I’ve just received an award,’ and there’s nothing deceptive about it because I actually did, but I gave it to myself,” Trump explained in the old clip.
Exactly what he did with the Man of the Year, confess to his own crime of lying.
So if you agree to being a slave, you’re a slave.
You may be armed with assault rifles and body armour. You can do as you please but with a lucrative contract you are a slave.
Apparently slavery is alive and well today and they aren’t uneducated blacks, it is an upper class phenomenon.
"The Janissaries had so much power that they appointed and removed the sultans who owned them, but individually they were property."
The same can be said of the Samurai.
Nazis disarmed the Jews. But that wasn't slavery, but rather a prelude to genocide.
Both, actually.
The slavery started between the disarming and the genocide.
Snopes: Given that multiple news organizations tried and failed to find proof of Michigan’s so-called "MAN" of the Year award in the years since Trump first started making this claim, we rate this claim as “False.”
You don't even have links, but even if you did they're irrelevant.
Do you see anyone else posting "fact-checks" here? That's because everyone here realizes fact-checks are propaganda for whatever group pays the fact-checkers bills, and they're usually more dishonest than the statement they're fact-checking.
CNN, Politico and Snopes fact-checks are the DNC equivalent of Brietbart, Fox and OAN fact-checks. Purposefully dishonest demagoguery.
You're too niave and stupid to be here. Go back to Salon. ===>
You really don't know how to type .com? I am not stopping you from using your own factcheckers. I noticed how you took an opinion out of factchecker.org and used it to claim I lied, which I kind of think they wouldn't take a lie from me and use it themselves, like you tried. Every one of them have a BIAS (left or right) to appeal to their viewers, which is like a baseball game which the score was 8 to 1 and calling it 8 to 1 slaughter. I use all the biases to reach the true facts.
Damn, man. Would you quit shit posting this all over every damn thread?
Show me any civilization that allowed its slaves to be armed.
Historical example of gun control being racist indeed.
There was certainly nothing racist about slavery. Oh...wait...
Disarming the people you’re oppressing isn’t racist, it’s the strategy to oppress.
Racism is choosing oppression based on race.
Racism is choosing oppression based on race.
Which is exactly what American slavery did. Is it painful to think the way you do?
Slavery was the business of oppression. It wasn’t based on hatred of blacks. They were uneducated uncivilized and easily oppressed.
There were thousands of blacks who owned slaves in the US.
Gun control affects everyone.
Oh, I see—it wasn't racist because Black people actually ARE inferior.
The Nazis sure didn't allow their slaves to be armed, albeit, they couldn't be considered a civilization.
What this author seems to miss is that the left is NOT a supporter of Black Americans and their best interests. It is a utilizer of African/Americans as cannon fodder in their never ending quest for power and control. Those individual African Americans belonging to the Democrat Party really don't share common values with the leftists running the show but go along to get along because they have fallen hard for the "dog and pony show" that has produced no real progress on the ground for them.
Given the lefts common assertion that Black people are hunted and killed by racist police and white nut cases one would think that they would encourage them to be armed. That is the last thing any leftist would want since even they know the "hunting Black persons" meme is just a political attack dog that is over amped and has little statistical reality behind it. But if it gets votes -- just keep mouthing the slogan loudly and often. But don't ever allow them to defend themselves from this fantasy threat.
I am confused: Does the Constitution mean that a “well regulated militia” is STILL LEGAL if it does not support a stolen election?
Apparently it is ILLEGAL as long as Mainstream Media says it is illegal.
Perhaps one of you can explain that to me…
Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)
Rob, perhaps you may not know that during our Indian Wars, the U.S. Military supplied weapons to settlers fighting the tribes and Mexicans who resisted our government. Indeed, when Union Gen. Ulysses Grant accepted the Confederate surrender at Appomattox, one of his terms was to issue an order for surrendering rebel troops returning to civilian life to keep their military sidearms, swords, knives, and rifles. When Gen. Lee, for example, offered his sword and pistol to Grant, at the surrender, Grant refused them. Grant wanted only the rebel warships, cannons, munitions, and bombs.
Sullum's argument is sound on all points, but guns have to be constitutionally regulated somehow for our protection, as much as free speech, religious practices, and other individual rights. Most people agree that false alarms causing injury or offensive speech provocation, religious based polygamy, and recklessly untrained gun use have no constitutional protection. And no 2A right includes gun negligence causing harm. But the solution is not to take a person's gun rights away or prohibit them from a legitimate right to exercise the right for their self- protection. The solution, then must be grounded in the purpose of self- protection as a right, both individually and socially. And the two purposes must be joined in law. And that union is to require military gun training of all youth, male and female, to identify the ones who ought not to have a gun without supervision -- for their protection and ours--for life or for as long as necessary.
The wisest and most responsible criteria to bear arms already exists in the first line of 2a.
People who won’t or can’t meet the criteria of “a well regulated militia” are a danger to society when they bear arms under any circumstances, even self defence.
How is demonstrating proficiency and responsibility before bearing arms unreasonable in any way?
It’s no different than having vehicle operating licences. Is that unreasonable?
“ A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed”
Note the commas, not periods. A well regulated militia describes the criteria to bear arms.
It’s like the sentence,
Training and certification in safe and responsible operation of vehicles as well as the rules and signage of the road being necessary for the security of the state, the right to drive shall not be infringed.
And what do you know, the federal government also lacks the power to infringe on your right to drive, just like it lacks the power to infringe on your right to own a firearm!
That’s why driver’s licenses are issued and revoked by the states.
I know that you don’t know what having an inalienable right means.
It means that it can’t be given or taken away by anyone.
It doesn’t mean that the right is limitless or not defined by reasonable criteria.
The constitution identifies rights, limits on government and limits on the rights enjoyed by the people.
One of those limits is demonstrated by defining meeting the criteria of a well regulated militia as required to enjoy the right to bear arms, because the militia would not employ criminals lunatics and children.
Jackson Lee, like all other party hacks, blindly follows—or more properly, embodies—her party’s dictates.
If she stopped to think about it, she might realize the inherent contradiction of supporting gun control but opposing the war on drugs. But the last thing partisans will do is think for themselves. If they did, they’d no longer be partisans.
Blind faith requires denial of facts, logic, inquiry, science, objectivity, reason, and freedom. So perfect for the mash-up of religion, politics, and tribalism that most people use for thinking.
Sheila Stonewall Jackson - Robert E. Lee
The section where Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee was discussed is a pretty good window into the mind of a progressive who wants to 'help' us by taking away our 2A rights. This pernicious ideology will destroy the Republic. To help us, we will have to relinquish our individual rights, according to progressives. That is simply statism. No thanks!
So, is this a libertarian take on CRT?
Sullum is not a libertarian, he is a progressive who has some policy differences with other progressives.
No, I think he's a libertarian who needs to earn a living for himself and his family by writing whatever the boss needs.
You’re saying he’s secretly a libertarian but writes progressive propaganda for a living? I think that would actually be worse. But I don’t think it’s true.
What's worse about doing things for money that you wouldn't do for no money?
That's a motivation I can respect. I even have a higher opinion of professional criminals than I do of amateurs or mere hotheads.
It's like why Trump's wanting eminent domain for an acquisition in Atlantic City never bothered me. It's OK, because he had a personal motivation to make money off it. It doesn't mean he favored eminent domain abuse for everybody.
Doing things for money, for a libertarian, means doing so within the bounds of respect for the Individual Rights to Life, Liberty, and Property.
By this standard, Trump using eminent domain is as reprehensible as any stick-up kid on the street.
We don’t live in a libertarian society, we live under different social arrangements.
Eminent domain is the law of the land. As a businessman, Trump is subject to it and he needs to take advantage of it when it serves his interests.
By analogy, I strongly oppose Social Security, but since I am forced to pay Social Security taxes, money I could otherwise have saved saved privately for retirement, I have no qualms about taking Social Security benefits.
Objecting to a law while taking advantage of it is not automatically ideologically inconsistent.
If you have to ask... well, we know your moral compass is broken.
You have to remember, around here, "progressive" means "anyone to the left of Milton Friedman".
You really do need to change your name, chemjeff.
Lol. Coming from you that is rich. There isn't a leftist policy you've not supported here.
And by "leftist policy", Jesse means "policies not endorsed by Trump".
No, you daft progshit, it means you slobber on the totalitarian knob like you're dying of thirst.
No, he doesn’t. Stop lying.
I criticized trump when I didn't agree with his policies multiple times jeff.
Sorry you can't do the same with Biden.
You listed 3 things. 3. The overlap between you and Trump is about 90%. That qualifies as "Trump shill" in my book. Not to the level of "Trump cultist", that is true. That would require unquestioning and total support for Dear Orange Leader. So you get a teensy weensy bit of credit for not going completely QAnon. Well done!
I gave 3 examples listed on this site you can go look up idiot.
Do you want an exhaustive list when I've already shown you're a pathetic liar?
Translation: Those three items *is* the exhaustive list.
Actually now that I think about it, what Jesse means by "leftist policy" is: "policy and ideas that I don't understand but since chemjeff is arguing for it, it must be bad therefore it is leftist".
Really? Name one.
Youre flailing dummy.
Ironically a rational person would list a policy on the left they disagree with but you can't do that. Lol.
You can find me criticizing trump for his bump stock ban, his eviction moratorium, his support of covid spending, etc.
You can't say the same about yourself dumbass.
Youre simply pathetic.
Ironically a rational person would list a policy on the left they disagree with but you can't do that. Lol.
Hmm let's see how this is going to play out here.
If I start by listing the leftist policies that I disagree with, Jesse will either say (a) no you don't you're a liar and a leftist or (b) you left one off that means you totally support it and you're a total leftist or (c) I will just ignore you and call you a leftist. But will he give me credit for actually opposing leftist policy? Let's see.
So, why don't I start by listing two that are relevant to this article, and let's see how Jesse responds:
1. I don't support banning guns.
2. I don't support banning drugs.
So, let's look at where Jesse opposes Trump:
- bump stock ban
- eviction moratorium
- COVID spending
Ironically all three of these things are supported by Team Blue, so Jesse only opposes Trump when there is overlap between Trump and Team Blue.
But, does Jesse oppose Trump when that is not the case? Let's see. Jesse, do you oppose building a pointless and useless border wall on the southern border? Do you support making immigration restrictions even tighter? Do you support a "total and complete shutdown of Muslim immigration"?
Nice weasel words you used shit weasel.
Banning doesn't exclude regulations of cities like NYC or LA that make ownership extremely difficult. Funny huh? You've supported those.
Banning drugs, again you use the most extreme but seem to have no problem again woth government regulations on such.
Youre just a weasel. I can give you a much more exhaustive list but you would continue your lies.
You do things like spending when I point to congress as the agent in veto proof bills because I'm not an uneducated idiot like yourself.
Border walls don't seem to be useless as you seem to be okay with them around military institutions, government buildings and such.
And the irony here is you can go back to 2003 here to find me arguing against illegal immigration because I thoroughly understand the costs associated which I've linked to you before. Libertarians don't believe in unfettered immigration in the presence of a welfare state. I have stated clearly id be fine with open borders if the welfare state was removed. You actually support the welfare state and seek to enhance it. Another leftist policy.
Youre a lying shit weasel lol.
Banning doesn't exclude regulations of cities like NYC or LA that make ownership extremely difficult. Funny huh? You've supported those.
Banning drugs, again you use the most extreme but seem to have no problem again woth government regulations on such.
Translation: You're right but I won't admit it, so instead I'll just shift the goalposts and lie about you.
Youre just a weasel. I can give you a much more exhaustive list but you would continue your lies.
Translation: I don't have a list, I'm just bluffing. Oh, and I'll throw in another insult.
You do things like spending when I point to congress as the agent in veto proof bills because I'm not an uneducated idiot like yourself.
Translation: I won't criticize Trump for making the wrong choice when I find it convenient not to, because tribe comes before honesty.
Border walls don't seem to be useless as you seem to be okay with them around military institutions, government buildings and such.
Translation: Well of course I support Trump on the border wall because that's his signature issue and I'm loyal to the Orange One.
And the irony here is you can go back to 2003 here to find me arguing against illegal immigration because I thoroughly understand the costs associated which I've linked to you before.
Translation: I claim to be a libertarian while making utilitarian arguments against the liberty of movement.
Libertarians don't believe in unfettered immigration in the presence of a welfare state.
Translation: Only libertarians like me matter.
I have stated clearly id be fine with open borders if the welfare state was removed.
Translation: I will pretend to be in favor of a genuinely libertarian position on immigration by conditioning it on an unachievable goal.
You actually support the welfare state and seek to enhance it. Another leftist policy.
Translation: You're a leftist if you support the welfare state, except for Trump. He doesn't count.
Youre a lying shit weasel lol.
Translation: Jesse's a lying shit weasel.
And your last sentence. Fucking lol. I've never supported a Muslim ban. I am for increased vetting of terrorist countries.
Do you ever argue from honesty?
And other leftist shit you support..
CRT and their lies as well as other subjective critical theory including 2+2=5. This also includes judging people on their race instead of characteristics.
Increases government handouts if you feel people aren't charitable enough.
Closing down of religious institutions such as adoption agencies that recieve federal finds.
Global centrist entity. In fact you support ever increasing removal of liberty from an individual towards centralized regulations.
Want me to go on?
Jesse, I don't support any of that. The most support I have ever given to CRT - the ACTUAL CRT, not the right-wing redefined one - is that it has some ideas worth considering and discussing, but that some are a little bit kooky. I never endorsed it. Because you know what? I support open inquiry. I support listening to a wide range of views. I don't believe in living my life in an ideologically sealed bubble. The rest are complete lies.
But let's just be honest for a moment. You know I don't subscribe to leftist ideology. You know I am not a progressive. The reason why you continually call me a "leftist" or "progressive" isn't because I actually support those ideologies, but because I don't behave like your Team Red buddies. I'm not deferential towards Trump. I don't think Team Blue is evil. I don't buy into most of the Team Red narratives.
You are judging loyalty by behavior, not by ideology. Because in your view I *behave* like a leftist (by questioning Team Red narratives, despising Trump, etc.), therefore I'm a leftist. That is what this entire thing boils down to.
It really is sad.
And by the way. In the discussion yesterday I posted a response to your comments. Why haven't you responded yet?
I know. As if Jacob Sullum doesn’t meet the bar for being a libertarian. Ridiculous.
He doesn’t. And how would you know? You’re a leftist democrat.
No. Mike Laursen is a pretty standard Silicon Valley liberal whose over inflated ego led him to adopt a contrarian view and believe that he must be a libertarian. He briefly tried doing the politics thing back in the day, but that led to him having to take principled stands on things that- as a Silicon Valley Liberal- he didn't like. So as a result, he decided that the problem was the Libertarian Party, rather than his trolling, disingenuous self.
Let’s say for a moment that you were correct that Sullum is not a libertarian. Any appreciation for a well-written, well-researched, long-form magazine article giving the history of the effect of gun control laws on black people? (With some mention of the impact on Hispanic and Italian-Americans, too.)
Sigh. Pandering to identity politics certainly does seem to pass for libertarian these days, mike. As well as living in the past.
I mean, how can I know what to think about an issue without a thousand word screed about how it might have affected black people throughout history?
Do you think this is good?
We need cowardly anonymous sockpuppets with green teeth to come crying about how we're "not rilly" libertarian because we kicked sand in the girl-bulliers faeces and "elected" Biden. Bwaaaaaa! *SNIF*
There is no question that this quote is entirely fabricated.
I'm certainly not defending Nixon or Ehrlichman or the "War on Drugs" but it is obvious Dan Baum totally made this up.
The funny part is we have comments from other white politicians, such as Biden, about the drugs that were racist and don't have to rely on hearsay. Was an odd choice for the writer to make.
Hillary’s super predators comment seemed the appropriate racist comment to go with. More contemporary. And of course not fabricated. Progressives will chaff and redirect every chance they get.
Dan Baum's word for word "quote":
So in 1994 the journalist would have you believe he goes to Ehrlichman's home and asks him policy questions about the War on Drugs and instead of an answer he says this and shows Baum to the door. Baum tells no one until 2016 when he uses it as the lead paragraph for a Harper's essay.
Contrary to the fabricated quote federal penalties for marijuana possession were reduced and Nixon's War on Drugs was originally conceived as "progressive reform" and to bring the US in compliance with international treaties.
The Jesus myth is a total fabrication of a famous guy nobody had ever heard of a century and a quarter before he was conjured out of whole cloth... much like the Turin Shroud. Superstitious prohibitionists believe anything that justifies murder and robbery. It's how altruism and self-deception lead them to death. A True Christian™ gives away all his property. These dupes become violent looters.
Reason, you make me sad.
Do they make you feel unsafe? If so, you might have a social justice "legal" claim.
He should demand they provide him with a social justice safe space.
And a puppy!
What do you hate puppies so much?
What color puppy?
#BlackLabsMatter
If requiring an ID to vote is "racist", then requiring an ID to purchase a firearm is equally "racist".
CB
But proposing policies and laws based on desired preferential racial outcomes is anti-racist.
It’s the “libertarian way”! Just read Locke and Rothbard! It’s all right there! Living libertarianism! /sarc
You have to practice the good kind of segregation.
Purchasing a fire from an FFL dealer also requires a federal background check. Does this happen when a vote is cast?
That's cuz if a person does something stupid with a gun, other people might get hurt or killed. If a person does something stupid with a vote...oh, never mind.
If a person does something stupid with a vote...oh, never mind.
Not brazen enough: If someone does something stupid with a gun, other people might get hurt or killed. If a person does something stupid with a vote, it doesn't matter because the right outcome has been fortified.
That's just why ID requirements are so objectionable to some people. If you live in the urban, off-the-books underworld, you never, ever, give your actual name and address to anyone, especially if they're with the government. The anti-ID people want guys who are living illegally in their current girlfriend's Section 8 apartment, making their living selling drugs or stealing, and trying to evade child support payments to be able to vote without fear.
Why would I want to purchase a fire when I can start one myself? 😉
When "racism" is the only card in their deck, it gets played a lot. ID is required for the COVID vaccine. We don't hear any Democrats whining about that.
https://twitter.com/davidharsanyi/status/1482708359409287171?t=Ak5xJvXZidH0iREORtBxQA&s=19
Islamic radical wandered into a synagogue in Texas by accident.
"@AP
BREAKING: The FBI says the Texas synagogue hostage taker's demands were specifically focused on issue not connected to the Jewish community. [Link]"
Is this like an SUV accidentally driving into a crowd (with injures reported)?
When did that happen? I havent heard anything in the media recently. Did the SUV lose control?
Must have seen it while perusing a local news outlet. Couldn’t find it again looking at WaPo, NYT, Salon or The Atlantic.
Waukesha, WI, right before Christmas.
Anti-white black dude plowed his SUV into a christmas parade of singing grandma's.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/waukesha-christmas-parade-mass-murder-coverage-journalism
Couldn't hear you over the crickets.
Something something let out on bail for previous attempted vehicular homicide in the same SUV something something...
Imagine if someone ran over one progressive at an event in say a place like Charlottesville, Virginia. I imagine it would have received a little more coverage. Hypothetically.
For god's sake, when will we implement common-sense SUV control laws?
https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/1482716927789252609?t=q_yX2xPQQaXwx5HJ8sI8Zg&s=19
Democrats are nazis wtf?
Forty-five percent (45%) of Democrats would favor governments requiring citizens to temporarily live in designated facilities or locations if they refuse to get a COVID-19 vaccine
[Link]
https://twitter.com/willchamberlain/status/1482547211158315012?t=IxtPM7L-1CnT-UFWCd8JAw&s=19
Which went insane first - the Democratic Party, or their base? [Link]
The Democratic Party platform is essentially fascist, and progressives explicitly admired European fascism and fascists until the atrocities of the Nazis came to light.
After that, accusing their opponents of fascism became a propaganda tool, just like accusing their opponents of racism, voter suppression, destroying democracy, authoritarianism, etc.—all things progressives are guilty of themselves.
The Republican Party has gotten around that problem by not having a platform at all, other than “whatever Trump says”.
Neither side!
You are totally not a lefty, Mike.
Or an idiot.
Do think about the garbage you post before you post it?
Here is the Republican party platform: https://ballotpedia.org/The_Republican_Party_Platform,_2020
Trump is a moderate conservative. That's why his views and the Republican party platform coincide.
The Democratic party platform, on the other hand, is extremist and collectivist.
Good cite!
Poor butthurt, girl-bullying, Trumpanzee losers. Why must they turn to Reason in their search for a Wailing Wall? We're the ones, according to pouting GOP shills at The Hill, who "elected Biden" by voting against rednecks with green teeth. Yawn...
Hank, our poor little ignorant brownshirt, squeaks again.
progressives explicitly admired European fascism and fascists until the atrocities of the Nazis came to light.
That wasn't a deal breaker for MIsek.
Including 100% of sarcasmic.
Nothing liberal about the Democrat party. They are composed of communists and fascists. The few that aren't one of those 2 and still authoritarian progressives.
Unfortunately, there is no longer anything liberal about the Republican Party, either.
Neither side!
Yet you only say this when someone attacks the left.
Yes, libertarians oppose gun control and drug control because such laws infringe on personal liberties.
But we don’t oppose such laws because they “disproportionately harm” anybody, or because they are ineffective, or because they are a waste of money (all of which they are). Such utilitarian analysis is how progressives and socialists approach policy, and if you argue that way, you have already accepted their premises, you just quibble about statistics.
Face it, Sullum, you’re a contrarian progressive, not a libertarian. It’s people like you who have destroyed liberalism and libertarianism in the US.
Great comment.
Well said. But I suspect Reason isn't preaching to the libertarian choir, but trying to make an argument to the woke masses.
Exactly. Which is good strategic thinking, even if tactically in this case they're wrong because this gun misfires.
We just need common sense Alec Baldwin control.
Ok, lame, but someone had to say it.
Funny. Not in the gun control sense, but in the stopping him from making crappy movies, and increasing his social media missives about 'finding the real killers.'
If that were the case, Reason writers should prefix every such article with explaining the libertarian position, and then point out that the progressive position even fails based on progressive criteria (collectivism and utilitarianism).
Yeah, the lack of this action actually makes it seem much more like ushering confused individuals right past libertarianism into various shades of collectivism (or strayed sheep back).
The great and powerful numbers have spoken! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
No, we libertarians don't oppose them for such a reason, but the idea of this article is that non-libertarians whose help we need on the margin to push the issue over might oppose them for such a reason. I think that hypothesis is wrong (see my comment below), but it's plausible.
We can't just rely on the support of libertarians to advance liberty. They're already a given, anyway. We need to persuade non-libertarians and even authoritarians in some cases. Authoritarians may be wary of siding with their opposites, but this is a phenomenon that does happen. If the neighborhood is on fire, it benefits all parties to organize everyone to get up fire control or evacuation, no matter whether we might resume slaughtering each other after the fire's out. Politics makes strange bedfellows.
^^^ THIS. exactly right. making the equity argument is the leftist argument. gun control is wrong because of the constitution and that is the only argument needed.
Obviously it's not the only argument needed, or we'd have it already.
Yep.
Bravo NOYB2.
Every principled ideology should also ultimately be based in practicality. That’s where principles ultimately arise from — balanced, long-sighted consideration of practicality.
Uh, no…….
This is The kind of fortune cookie slop we expect from you.
John Locke would like to have a word.
Nope; look up natural law, inalienable rights, that sort of thing.
If all such is reduced to "practicality" or some "balancing tests" then all you have left is a specious "living" constitution that means absolutely nothing, as everything is then up for discussion according to notions like "public good"
But one thing you have contributed, that avoids miles long threads of outrage. This is the fundamental dividing line between us, and I expect it will forever be so. And on that there will be no compromise. Forget about it.
Or, putting it another way, if you have a political philosophy that can only be defended with highly abstract arguments, but not practical ones, something is flawed with your political philosophy.
Indeed. At the end of the day there must be empirical evidence to support an ideology. No one in their right mind is going to support an ideology that will empirically make them *worse* off.
This was the main problem with the communism of the 20th century. When empirical evidence started getting in the way of communist ideology, instead of tweaking their ideology, they doubled-down.
It doesn't mean that a course of action should be guided *solely* by empiricism, but empirical evidence should guide and inform the ideology.
Are you sure you don't want to contort a metaphor that has nothing to do with the subject into another criticism of Republicans to prove you're not a lefty?
Are you sure you're not just a troll trying to bait me?
Who needs to bait you? You freely do this.
Self defense isn't an abstract argument.
What the actual fuck. You and Jeff are completely helpess.
Yes, beware the word “disproportionately”. It is used not in good faith, but to divide.
After all, we can’t start treating people like individuals. That’s crazy talk.
Excellent comment thank you.
https://twitter.com/MythinformedMKE/status/1482731890239062023?t=pkAqMLqsUnFf694IP5U7sg&s=19
4 street art photos seen in DC detailed on the DarkHorse podcast by Bret & Heather. Very interesting. [Link]
https://twitter.com/thechrisbuskirk/status/1482731084789923842?t=ZR5dZ0EFnTxDydB4k8NZpg&s=19
Biden Signed New Law To Install Kill Switches In All New Cars
It must “passively monitor the performance of a driver of a motor vehicle to accurately identify whether that driver may be impaired.”
Big Brother will constantly be monitoring how you drive. [Link]
The hidden crypto regulations in the infrastructure bill are also scary. No debate. And a bunch of idiot Republicans voted for it as well.
Right to repair is just a hippie plot to subvert Muh Preyevut Korper-a-shunz!
Or driving in a way inconsistent with social justice?
Wait til it checks your vaccine status before allowing the car to start. Or automatically administers the dose from the driver's seat.
This is why I will drive my Ford until it rusts to nothing.
And then, because Ford and 'merica, buy another Ford on the verge of rusting into parts or just the parts and drive the 'new' one until it rusts into nothing. Rather than driving a Tesla until a part breaks and Tesla says, "Sorry, we don't sell parts, buy a new Tesla instead."
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/fauci-financials-expose-how-millionaire-doctor-profited-pandemic
Nothing burger. 14k for a covid speech.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/leftists-your-freedom-their-misery-your-slavery-their-joy
A large population has gone from fear of others' freedoms to revulsion and hatred of others' freedoms. Politicians, media, fauci, and academe have played a significant role.
“A Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every black home, and it should be used for that protection which the law refuses to give.” - Ida B. Wells, 1892
“I am not a Democrat, because the Democrats considered me a chattel and possibly might have always so considered me, because their record from the beginning has been inimical to my interests." - Also Ida B. Wells, 1885
ML January.13.2022 at 3:51 pm
No, he was awarded a man of the year presentation from the Michigan Republicans.
Lie number 1, no, he WAS awarded Republican of the Year award. Close but still a lie.
Hey ᛋᛋqrlsy.
When are you going to apologize for misrepresenting Trump's statements about being awarded about the Michigan Republican of the Year award?
Lie #125,349,620. That Trump wasn't given an award by the Michigan Republicans.
Ask the Reichsquirreler Squoebbels about his website.
Also about his meds.
Fact: Republican of the Year Award. (Notice no "MAN)
LIE: Man of the Year award.
Fact: I never lied about any of these. (You lied twice in 3:56 post, used "MAN" twice)
ML January.13.2022 at 6:11 pm
Trump was obviously talking about the Michigan Republican of the Year award. (Your mind reading ESP saw that trump was talking about when he said he confused "MAN" of the year with Rep. of the year. I am impressed after 20+ posts it took for you to understand, if you or trump use the word "MAN", you're both lying.
You FINALLY got the award that he won (no "MAN".) Why didn't you notice he was lying about the Man of the Year award? If he
hadn't been called on his lie so many times, he would still be lying about this fictious award. Yet you continue.
ANY post by you that mentions "MAN" is a lie by you and/or Trump. You mentioned "MAN" five times, ALL lies, between January 13, at 3:51 pm and 4:06 pm.
Just "MAN" up and admit you are a pathological filthy liar like trump.
Lie #125,349,620. That Trump wasn't given an award by the Michigan Republicans. Yes, he was given AN award, but it was NOT "MAN" of the year award like the "MAN" of the year award he lied about for years. He keeps EVERY award he has ever won in his golf course walls including the FAKE time magazine issues he forged, and Time told him to take down. No one, even you, have found his "MAN" of the year award. Does that sound like him, and you were lying?
So all your sophistry relies on you pettifogging about him using the word "Man" rather than "Republican". It's cheap pedantry like this that demonstrates your embarrassing stupidity.
What did you think he is anyway? A woman? A Ford Pinto?
He used the "MAN" word for years until it got to be an embarrassing proof that he was lying. It must be embarrassing for you that you won't admit that he lied and somehow claiming that I am to blame. This is probably one of his smallest lies he ever told, even though it might be one of his longest lasting. He used "Republican" because that was used in the award he ACTUALLY WON. He used "MAN" because that is what his mind came up with since there was no award like it in Mich.
For your reference...
Fact: Republican of the Year Award. (Notice no "MAN)
LIE: Man of the Year award. (Bald face lie he used for years.)
Fact: I never lied about any of these. (You lied twice in 3:56 post)
I’ve got douchebruce muted, as everyone should. But I’d still bet a dollar this comment didn’t have anything to do with Ida B. Wells or gun control.
You would have won.
ᛋᛋqrlsy-dbruce is chasing me around and trying to get me to leave through harrassment. Kind of like what he did to Chuck with the KAR sock, or what White Mike and sarcasmic were doing to Ken.
I'm not going to give in though, and I'm going to punch back twice as hard. ᛋᛋqrlsy-dbruce is probably going to get really spammy for a while, so I apologize in advance, but I just can't give in to shithole trolls.
dbruce is a dbag that dbates with dbunked dbauchery. That sock is like a steaming pile of dog shit in the middle of a sidewalk on a hot sunny day. Muting is the equivalent of crossing to the other side of the street.
I wouldn’t worry about it. He’s just some moronic faggot that everyone hates. Mute him. I think most posters have already done that.
Sorry. I'm just too Oppositional-defiant or something. I just have to kick back.
It is simple, just tell the truth; it is easy. Making up new lies about me harassing anyone is borderline insane. If you have proof show it, date and time and site. And who's Chuck? And what is a KAR sock?
And what is ᛋᛋqrlsy-dbruce? And your definition of harassment?
Lie #125,349,620, do you have documentation of at least ONE?
Now you should admit that trump LIED.
Now you should admit that you lied when you said trump didn't lie.
Now you should admit that I never lied.
I'll never "admit" Trump lied because he didn't.
He may have used imprecise language but he was factually correct.
We can do this forever you dishonest shit. I never give in to trolls.
Well now, you have to prove that he won the "Man" of the year award.
It is really easy to prove he didn't, as you know, just Google or factcheckers as I have already shown you. You can also prove if I was wrong but you declined to do that, but you can't because there is NO PROOF that I am wrong or any of the 1000s of people and publications which would LOVE to prove trump correct.
Fun fact; do you think trump was truthful on the Access Hollywood tape where he talked about grabbing pussy?
How can a person be "harassed" on this cite? MUTE USER, duh. ALL I am asking is your proof that Michigan "MAN" of the year even exists. It's hard for me to prove a negative. But it is easy to prove a positive, just tell me who won ANY Michigan "MAN" of the year award, trump and/or anyone.
Just do you research, and it ends. The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don’t know anything about. The truth is out there, "MAN".
Mother's Lament (ML) also known as Judas Iscariot.
Fact: Republican of the Year Award. (Notice no "MAN)
LIE: Man of the Year award.
Fact: I never lied about any of this. (You lied twice in 3:56 post)
If you or trump mention ANY award that has man in it, it is a LIE. Why don't you just "MAN" up and admit you are lying?
Hey ᛋᛋqrlsy.
Why aren't you apologizing for misrepresenting Trump's statements about being awarded about the Michigan Republican of the Year award?
Lie #125,349,620. That Trump wasn't given an award by the Michigan Republicans.
ML January.13.2022 at 3:56 pm You lied AGAIN:
The stupid thing is that because Trump said he got the "Michigan Man of the Year Award", rather than the "Michigan Republican Man of the Year Award" he's some sort of liar.
Lie number 2, No, he got Republican of the year award, instead of "MAN" OF THE YEAR. Close but no cookie. Lie number 3, he won Republican of the year award., not Republican "MAN" of the year. 3 strikes.
Triggered progshit.
Bruce, we all know you’re lying. You always lie. Everyone here is on ML’s side and hates you.
Thanks Dick.
President Donald Trump has claimed no fewer than seven times over the past three years — including at a recent rally in New Hampshire — that he won Michigan’s “MAN of the year” award. But there’s NO EVIDENCE that he did. Or EVER lived in Michigan.
Whoever can prove he told the truth, would receive $THOUSANDS, and you and EVERYONE who hates me should do the research and collect and prove that I was lying and ALWAYS lie.
ALL?
Radically different from the dimwit creator of the 1619 project who has stolen her name for use on social media.
Do progressives decriminalize marijuana or do they legalize it under an authoritarian regulatory scheme that allows folks such as Reason editors, brokers and attorneys to have an occasional puff but prices and complicates most folks out of the legal market?
We already have draconian, restrictive gun laws. Existing ones require sunsetting not to be replaced.
If they "decriminalized" it in the sense preferred by prostitution reformers, that'd be preferable to "legalized" in the sense used by prostitution reformers. But to drug reformers, "decriminalized" most often means "still illegal, but only a civil and not a criminal violation, and the goods and money still get confiscated", while "legalized" means "made legal, i.e. not illegal". I'd rather have any degree of regulatory scheme that didn't include controls, i.e. that allowed every adult to partake legally under some reasonably achievable conditions (like tax payments and licensure of sufficient numbers of producers and retailers), than to have it remain illegal albeit with light penalties.
Decriminalize in the same sense potatoes are.
Potatoes were never criminalized, so were never decriminalized. "De-" is not a synonym of "un-" or "non-". Regardless, if they'd been criminalized and then decriminalized, they'd probably still be illegal, but only a civil violation, unless you go by the prostitution reformers' jargon.
To the same result.
I’ve seen this argument about prices before, but here in WA they are lower at the legal stores than the black market prices pre legalization. This might not be the case in other states.
I’m guessing that an illegal market still exists here, though. You have to show ID at the legal stores. So racist.
Race-skewed impact I could see as weighing with some "left"-leaning people to persuade them regarding the advisability of current policies. However, what good does it do to point out racial origins of such policies? The most reaction I could see coming is from people who'd say someone making such an argument is disingenuously trying to accuse them of racism, when their motivations haven't been that way during their own lives. Consider the contemporary reactions to "1619". Also recall from a few years back that a scholar made a plausible case that the world's understanding of liberty arose millennia ago from our experience with oppression and slavery: that ideas of freedom came from the slave-owning class in the Levant, because it meant they could command slaves rather than being slaves to others; therefore slavery and subjugation led to freedom — that a society would seek to become one of beneficiaries rather than victims of slavery.
Something like this has worked with marijuana. We're getting it out from under prohibition because people remember it as having been of their own generation, therefore it's "good", rather than the "bad" drugs used by still-vilified segments of the population. We might have a better chance of promoting firearms freedom if we promoted it as an acceptable way for whites to protect themselves from dark folks, rather than trying to get the oppressed to be liberated by guns. Then it's a matter of trying to get black people to "become white", which it seems a large segment of them have been very eager to do.
If you argue about policies based on race or impact, you may win the battle on individual policies but you are losing the war for liberty. That’s because you already accept the progressive premise that race and impact are valid considerations in making laws.
What is wrong with simply *observing* what is the impact that certain laws might have on different cohorts?
If a particular law affects the young more than the old, or black more than white, or men more than women, shouldn't we at least try to understand that?
And then what? We have abundant data that show men are over-represented in prisons. Do we need to change laws to correct this?
Maybe, maybe not. Don't you think it's at least worth investigating?
No, Jeff. It’s been analyzed to death. The results have not been good.
Try treating others like individuals. Radical idea, I know.
To what are you specifically referring?
That's not what we are talking about. We are talking about policy debates, i.e., justifications for proposed laws.
To a libertarian, disparate impact of laws based on sex, race, ethnicity, age, etc. is irrelevant for policy debates.
I’m curious. Did you actually read Sullum’s article?
Yes, though not very carefully. Another problem with it is that it is too verbose.
It is absurd to group people into "cohorts" based on skin color, race, or ethnicity and then to analyze anything in terms of those categories.
From a libertarian point of view, such questions are irrelevant as far as the law is concerned.
So, completely ignore that we have a history of making laws that group people into cohorts based on skin color, race, or ethnicity? Sullum was writing a historical article, the history is that gun laws were targeted at black people, as he explained.
Of course they were "targeted at black people"; specifically, they were targeted at the massive drug use and violence in black neighborhoods, in the hopes that those laws were going to improve the situation. That's why these laws were supported by many black politicians as well. We likely wouldn't have those laws because without drug use and violence in minority communities, this wouldn't have been enough of a problem for politicians to worry about.
Sullum seems to have swallowed the absurd leftist belief that these laws were enacted out of malice or racism, with the intent to harm blacks. And then he spins endless analysis and tales around that faulty core belief.
From a libertarian point of view, none of that matters. From a libertarian point of view, guns and drugs should both be legal. What the impact of those policies on black, whites, or any other group you can think of, is irrelevant.
The "war for liberty" has been going on for thousands of years. It consists of a bunch of individual battles. The more battles you win, the better. The war will go on literally forever, or at least to the extinction of human-like things, so what matters is how well you're doing in the battles at any given time.
Reason and big-L Libertarians are obviously failing.
Hence my comment.
You are missing the obvious difference that Sullum is implying that laws should _not_ be targeted at particular races — Sullum is arguing for the same thing you are.
This is such a simple point, and cannot be emphasized enough. Either liberty works, regardless of race, or it doesn't.
Agreed on the premise for impact and consideration for legislation. That said, the discussion of racial impact is harmless, and over the top rhetoric based on claims of racism is a tactic of the left and progressivism. To observe, understand, and use the tactics of one's political opponents is a viable option. And a smart, if ugly tactic. Further, modern politics will never be an arena of 'pure' theory; it will always be the realm of messy emotional arguments that favor the group over the individual. The 'war' need not be lost, but may be won by fighting and winning battles.
The diarrhea of gibberish with which Trumpanzees and their heckers spray each other would be bearable if we could bet money on the outcome. Or is the idea to make chaff to jam Sullum's reporting on the superstitious prohibitionism and racial collectivism Republicans enshrine and worship?
EXACTLY. This just sounds like another arm of " we came from Africa"
Id also suggest differentiating between " other -colored persons ( race baiting right there) RKBA and " other colors engaging in violence with guns" which is probaly more to the pointesp. considering crine stats.
The War on Drugs and gun control were prominent initiatives in Saint Ronnie's conservative agenda.
https://theweek.com/articles/582926/how-ronald-reagan-learned-love-gun-control
Proving, once again, conservatives are anti-liberty (just as progressives are).
Is this you?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8jZBDnXVYvw
He lied about being employed, so there's a good chance.
The interaction at the McDonalds is classic Shrike-esque behavior. The chaff and redirect. The smugness.
You are expert on lying.
ML January.13.2022 at 3:56 pm
The stupid thing is that because Trump said he got the "Michigan Man of the Year Award", rather than the "Michigan Republican Man of the Year Award" he's some sort of liar.
Lie number 2, No, he got Republican of the year award, instead of "MAN" of the year. Close but no cookie. Lie number 3, he won Republican of the year award, not Republican "MAN" of the year.
You are an expert on "stupid things" also.
The sort of liar that trump is, is the world's biggest liar and you are moving in fast.
Side note: trump has lied 100,000+ times in his life and it is almost assumed when he says something, it is a lie. He is some SORT of liar. You're a liar "MAN".
Say ᛋᛋqrlsy.
Why aren't you apologizing for misrepresenting Trump's statements about being awarded the Michigan Republican of the Year award?
Lie #125,349,620. Trump wasn't given an award by the Michigan Republicans.
You will never see me apologize for YOUR LIE or trumps. Post the day and time I posted that. will take you months because I copy and paste every time and copy and paste doesn't lie.
Fact: Republican of the Year Award. (Notice no "MAN)
LIE: Man of the Year award.
Fact: I never lied about any of this. (You lied twice in 3:56 post)
Blow me, you lying weasel.
Thanks, which debate school did you learn that technique?
It’s not a “pro/anti” binary fixed for all time.
It’s not a “pro/anti” binary fixed for all time.
Does that standard apply to Team Blue as well?
Yes.
Oh, okay. So then it's safe to say that, while the Democratic Party supported slavery in the past, now, they no longer support it. Right?
Also like how it's safe to say that, while the Republican Party supported gun control in the past, now, they no longer support it - or at least support it to a much lower extent. Right?
Sure.
Lol. Poor Lefty Jeffy.
Then we agree.
No one will ever click your links ever again. Posting child porn links will do that to you.
Conservative nutjob Glenn Beck claims US/Democrats are setting up "internment camps" for the unvaccinated:
https://uproxx.com/viral/tucker-carlson-glenn-beck-internment-camps-washington/
but even Tucker Carlson's show can't find any evidence:
After thanking Beck for appearing on the show, and sending him off with a “God bless,” Carlson ended the segment by saying his producers found no evidence to back Beck’s claim.
The Beckerhead is hawking a book claiming that The West will cease to exist by 2030.
Sounds like the Beckerhead wants Fat Rush's high paying CT gig for liars.
The west is already dead. Men are women. Women are men. Kids are indoctrinated with racist rhetoric in public schools. Firing healthcare workers that are not sick due to an illness while allowing those receiving an experimental drug and are sick permitted to work. Some progressives even believe that things like sexual assault on children to be acceptable.
Another step towards Eloi and Morlocks. Which would you rather be?
the Commies were quite successful. Time Mag, ( b4 it turned into T.P.) :
http://content.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19920224,00.html
This is their repayment.
It also effectively breached the divide between the US and the Papacy.
( for an ultimate Scavenger Hunt, search for the letter from the then- Pope to Geo. Washington insisting that G.W. return the US to the ' fold.')
no, that was Australia.
Also not true. Australia set up quarantine camps for people arriving in the country, which is not the same thing.
Liarson.
https://www.citizensjournal.us/covid-concentration-camps-for-australians-its-happening/
Mike C Lionson
Australia 100% provably does have quarantine facilities where their own citizens are interred, not by their own choice.
Furthermore, it seems that in at least some cases, the internment has disproportionately affected aboriginals.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-01/multiple-people-escape-howard-springs-quarantine-facility-darwin/100663994
Words have meanings…
quarantine: n. a state, period, or place of isolation in which people or animals that have arrived from elsewhere or been exposed to infectious or contagious disease are placed.
in·tern·ment: n. the state of being confined as a prisoner, especially for political or military reasons.
"he was threatened with internment in a concentration camp"
You're more full of horse shit than usual, I see.
But, guess what! Everyone can see it by clicking on the link I provided. It's national news in Australia - about as friendly of a report as you can find.
Your original claim was that Australia was NOT quarantining their own citizens in camps. You're wrong. These people didn't travel abroad. They are natives. Aboriginal natives. They were forcibly moved to a fenced-off quarantine facility by their own government. 200 miles from their homes. When they 'escaped', there was a massive manhunt to 're-capture' them. As it happens, they all tested negative, but were still required to return to the 'facility'. Because they broke protocol.
Read the link.
“Your original claim was that Australia was NOT quarantining their own citizens in camps.”
Only if you twist my words. I was arguing that they were not setting up “internment camps”.
I didn’t know about the quarantine camp for aborigines, but even so it is also not an internment camp, it is a quarantine camp.
Which is not to say I approve of the Australian government’s heavy handed quarantine policies. But don’t mislabel them as internment. Let’s stick to truth.
You need a better dictionary. From Wikipedia:
Internment is the imprisonment of people, commonly in large groups, without charges or intent to file charges
Enforced quarantine at government camps certainly is a form of internment.
Nearly half - 48% - of Democrats want to fine or imprison people who publicly question the efficacy of the existing COVID-19 vaccines on social media, television, radio, or in online or digital publications.
– Forty-five percent (45%) of Democrats would favor governments requiring citizens to temporarily live in designated facilities or locations if they refuse to get a COVID-19 vaccine.
https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/partner_surveys/jan_2022/covid_19_democratic_voters_support_harsh_measures_against_unvaccinated
Pretty sure Glenn Beck is on to something, Shrike.
You guys always wanted interment camps.
ML January.13.2022 at 4:03 pm
Hey, when are you going to apologize for lying about the Michigan Republican Man of the year award?
Lie number 5, No, just something floating around in his and your pea brain. Quit using the word "MAN", it is easy to spot as a lie.
ᛋᛋqrlsy, how come you aren't apologizing for misrepresenting Trump's statements about being awarded about the Michigan Republican of the Year award?
Lie #125,349,620. That Trump wasn't given an award by the Michigan Republicans.
ML January.13.2022 at 6:11 pm
Trump was obviously talking about the Michigan Republican of the Year award.
You FINALLY got the award that he won (no "MAN".) Why didn't you notice he was lying about the "Man" of the Year award? If he
hadn't been called on his lie so many times, he would still be lying about this fictious award.
Bruce, you’re a pathetic joke. You aren’t embarrassing ML, you’re embarrassing yourself.
Mother's Lament
January.16.2022 at 6:46 pm
Blow me, you lying weasel.
Does that sound like someone who isn't embarrassed?
It sounds like someone doesn't care about being a lying weasel.
Racism isn't why gun control laws and the War on Drugs are wrong.
Gun control laws are wrong because individual human beings have a natural right of self-defense. Gun control laws are illegal since the Constitution specifically prohibits any infringement on that right. Gun control laws are a bad idea because they make it harder for individuals to defend themselves, and create a criminal black market in firearms.
Drug prohibition is wrong because individual human beings have a natural right to choose what does (or doesn't) go into their bodies. Federal drug prohibition laws are illegal because the Constitution was never amended to permit them (as it was for alcohol prohibition). Drug prohibition is wrong because it doesn't stop drug abuse, makes the drugs more dangerous (with no legal recourse to sue for tainted products), and creates a criminal black market in drugs, along with the associated increase in crime, violence and police corruption.
Oh hell, people should be allowed to have guns even if they're useless for defense. Otherwise you're just arguing about utility. What if they were just for sporting purposes or turning off the lights in the house at night?
Ditto re drugs, of course.
Am now thinking of the early 1990s SNL skit, the African etc goods store where everything has a storage space so 'you can put your weed in there.'
That is a well reasoned libritarian based argument. If onlt the writers from reason could do that. They used to, but then virgina postrel left
Why does there have to be only one reason a law is wrong?
Why does one have to mine grievance from subgroups to demonstrate that a law is wrong?
It is the essence of the times we live in?
dopers love False Comparisons.
Drugs make you people stupid.
No Constitutional Right to Bear Drugs, you International Drug Cartel member.
Gun control is not racist.
It unconstitutionally infringes on the rights of all, regardless of color.
It’s not an either/or. It can be an unconstitutional infringement on the fights of all, _and_ at least partially motivated by racism.
Why are you so obsessed with race?
He’s been told to.
Drugs and violence have been rampant among minority communities; that's why drug and gun laws have been enacted. So, yes, there is a strong racial component and necessarily those laws result in many more minority criminals going to prison.
Although I generally oppose such laws, I fail to see what is "racist" about enacting them. Black politicians themselves were advocating for tougher drug laws precisely because they wanted their communities and neighborhoods cleaned up.
But traffic cams are definitely racist,
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/chicago-s-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most/ar-AASEBth
What's amusing is nobody's had the guts to suggest, looking at the data, that maybe black and latino drivers are speeding more. Only one note that speeding was down. And no data as to whether or not cameras were more prevalent in black and latino neighborhoods.
Biden just went on television to blame yesterday's Muslim terrorist kidnapping of four Jews in a Texas synagogue and hostage standoff as a gun control problem, and criticized the easy availability of guns.
Meanwhile, Biden refused to comment on Muslim extremism and terrorism in America (and worldwide), while calling Trump supporters and parents who oppose vaccine, mask and CRT mandates as domestic terrorists.
Seems like Biden and most other Democrats have redefined, criticized and (recently) indicted Republicans as domestic terrorists and seditionists, while coddling Muslim extremist terrorists who actually plan and harm Americans.
Even though the Muslim kidnappers weren't even carrying guns?! Biden's hilarious.
Only Christian’s and Jews are to ever be condemned.
no, hes senile. Being hilarious is just a bonus.
Its Biden weather today...85 and foggy.
Border crisis? What border crisis?
He should ask his son how to control guns. Drugs too.
https://www.google.com/search?q=hunter+biden+gun&oq=hunter+biden+gun&aqs=edge..69i57.5244j0j2&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
its a Muslim radical problem.
Paranoid Leftists carry their anti gun paranoia like Mr. Burns dirty torn sewage- laced teddy bear, crying over it.
The bastards cry about gun deaths while murdering unborn babies.
And speaking of the War on Drugs:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35007072/
Cannabinoids Block Cellular Entry of SARS-CoV-2 and the Emerging Variants
Yes, John Campbell reported on that one in his daily YouTube.
Up next: Mandatory dope smoking.
Or mandatory spiking of tobacco: mandatory smoke doping.
Would that result in a price increase? We are already experiencing haperinflation of $0.10/pouch of spittin tobacky. Yeah, there is no other inflation currently with furl prices projected to drop to historic lows last fall so we might be able to afford a double price hike. But should we?
I was gonna get COVID, but then I got high?
The dirty unjabbed hippies are healthier than the vaxxed and immaculate yuppies, again.
I was curious who would even think to do such a study:
https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/faculty-staff/richard-van-breemen
Doesn’t look like a pot enthusiast, but he is from Oregon State…
This reminds me of Elie Mystal.
http://www.thenation.com/article/society/supreme-court-gun-rifle/
Mystal has a reputation for writing about how widespread racism is in society.
Everything is racist.
If everything is racist, then that means nothing is racist.
Rosenbergs, H-bomb, Sugar Ray, Panmunjom
Brando, "The King and I", and "The Catcher in the Rye"
Eisenhower, Vaccine, England's got a new queen
Marciano, Liberace, Santayana, goodbye
Every thing is racist
Crosses always burning, since the world's been turning
ANY post by you that mentions "MAN" is a lie by you or Trump. You mentioned "MAN" many times, ALL lies.
Obviously? Now you are the mind reader to lying stars?
Now you should admit that trump LIED.
Now you should admit that you lied when you said trump didn't lie.
Now you should admit that I never lied.
Dude, you’ve gotta stop. No one buys your bullshit. You just get yourself muted.
You do understand that your comments are homogeneously buffoonish, right?
Maybe you can google the Michigan "MAN" of the year award? Mother's Lament doesn't know how to find it or doesn't want to find it. Why don't you take a swing at it ?
Trump was right, Sqrlsy.
Did you find proof? You will be on national TV and make $thousands. "Trump was right", he has not heard that a lot. When he was cheating on ALL three of his wives, they never said that.
What part of "shall not be infringed" means we have to discuss why something that's not gonna happen could be racist?
Did I miss another change in the dictionary or Constitution here?
My dictionary has "regulated" and "militia" in it as well. Yours?
Those words had somewhat different meanings in the 1700’s. If you had a proper education you would be aware of that. You should move to Canada if you don’t want to live in a free country.
So did arms. Let's scrap the amendment and come up with something rational.
Sure. Just go ahead and amend it to stop giving individuals a right to bear arms.
We should vote on all the amendments using a mail in ballot process.
You are arguing with Tulpa, by the way.
Again? We went through this surrender to the commies debate in Physics Today when Tony was learning to play with his peter. Search: "Antinuclear Nuclear Weapons"
The second amendment is just fine the way it is. Go to Australia if you don’t want to live in a free country.
You still erroneously consider the 2A as somehow granting a limited right to bear arms. That is incorrect.
The right to own, carry, and use guns derives from the original US Constitution. The 2A simply affirms these rights. You could abolish the 2A and the right to bear arms under the US Constitution would still exist.
That is not clear at all. The individual states have a long history of enacting their own gun laws.
Yes, under the original US Constitution, states can restrict gun ownership any way they like (as long as they don't interfere with interstate commerce). The Second Amendment was not incorporated (i.e., made binding on the states) until 2010 by SCOTUS.
So, under the original Constitution, the federal government could not impose gun control, but the states could. Since 2010, the federal government still lacks the power to impose gun control, and in addition, the ability of states to do so has been limited by SCOTUS.
While incorporation appears to have expanded gun rights, I think it was a bad idea. I think individual states ought to be able to enact whatever stupid gun control laws they want. Ditto for abortion, religion, and free speech.
no, its a recycled " living constitution" scam.
There was a time when the whole of our society was racist and made laws motivated by racism. Many were good laws anyway, and many were bad laws that you nevertheless tacitly support since they serve to keep the right and wrong sorts of people on their respective sides of town. The very existence of suburbia is predicated on racism, but that doesn't mean there should be no city planning whatsoever.
Guns are explody machines of death. We regulate fish for fuck's sake. Stop being obtuse.
"you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides."
We don’t prohibit the ownership of fishing rods nor should we.
Hence the distinction between tools of death for fish and tools of death for humans. Reality is nuanced, no matter how much you rage against that.
The Founders didn’t need to make a specific law prohibiting government from restricting the ownership of fishing rods.
The founders owned human beings and liked it. I don't give a fuck what they thought. I give a fuck how we can escape the clutches of some of their more unfortunate decisions. Congress and the Supreme Court can make the 2nd Amendment say whatever they want to it say, as they did in Heller.
That's a lie. The founders detested slavery.
Heller didn't change the meaning of the 2A. The federal government lacked the power to restrict gun ownership before Heller and it still did after Heller. What Heller did was to incorporate the 2A into the 14A, i.e., make it apply to the states. I think incorporation is a really bad idea, but it is an idea that progressives and leftists are excessively fond of.
That's easy: you pass constitutional amendments.
What you seem to want is a partial repeal/clarification of the 14A. I think many conservatives would be on board with that: strengthen states rights and autonomy. Let's unambiguously eliminate Jus soli while we are at it.
The founders were demigods who got everything right, and they agree with all your political opinions.
How enlightening.
I'm not deifying the founders, I'm simply correcting your lie. The founders did own slaves, but we have numerous writings from which it is clear that they detested the practice.
I'm sure I would disagree on lots of political opinions with the founders. I think there are plenty of shortcomings in the US Constitution.
You'd think people who detested the practice of owning humans wouldn't own any humans.
I have no doubt that you think that.
I recommend you actually read some history books to understand why people who detested slavery nevertheless owned slaves.
So what about baseball bats? Golf clubs? Feet and fists? Those are used as "tools of death" for humans
That's in the Socialist Utopia of Cambodia, or whatever they call it this week.
So let's compromise and everyone gives up their guns but gets to retain their sporting equipment and limbs for self-defense. Everybody wins.
When citizens are unarmed, everybody loses.
I was just told that all those things were equally useful as weapons.
You were told that they are also "tools of death", not that they were "equally as useful as weapons".
But a baseball bat is a tool for hitting baseballs.
Well, Tony, again, if you actually knew anything about history, you'd know that in totalitarian regimes, people have indeed used weapons other than guns to defend themselves and to fight for their liberty. You'd also know that such substitutes are nowhere near as effective as guns and that as a result, many more downtrodden and oppressed people are killed when gun ownership is restricted. But, of course, you don't give a f*ck.
“ There was a time when the whole of our society was racist and made laws motivated by racism. ”
Citation needed. And try not to make one up like you did last time.
I believe the citation is the 1619 project - - - - - - -
Never thought I’d be defending Tony, but he made a claim that is nowhere near what the 1619 Project claims.
Everything Is So Terrible And Unfair! (tm)
There’s your cite.
Any progress on making swag w/ that catch phrase?
“ that you nevertheless tacitly support since they serve to keep the right and wrong sorts of people on their respective sides of town. ”
Segregation laws prove that you need police to enforce segregation, not an individual right to bear arms.
Tony's utopia demands gorilla-faced goons with guns herding rightless slaves. Some socialists got exactly that in Poland and Czechoslovakia starting 1939. Then another bunch disarmed and killed the first oppressors without much meddling from the Army of Occupation. Socialism died in New Mexico, but looter altruists want to wish that away on a river of self-deception. Rotsa ruck amending away 2A.
Make doing bad things with guns illegal. Just like stabbing people in the neck with a pencil should be illegal and throwing a Molotov cocktail into someone's car should be illegal. Cars are deadly weapons when you try to run someone over.
I heard that someone did that recently, but his lawyer said he was just high and not full of hate, so…
“This is no world for the fragile.”
Right, tony?
No, there never was such a time. About half the country is racist: the half that votes for Democrats, socialists, progressives.
Did you miss that he was speaking about the past?
I didn't miss that at all. The racists in the US have always been overwhelmingly Democrats, socialists, and progressives.
This is a hell of a stupid take. The sad part is that I don't think you came up with any of it and are just parroting what other idiots have said. Laws have always been made primarily for a few standard motivations. They are made to personally benefit the politician, nudge or maintain certain aspects of society, and to expand or contract freedom. While racism does and has factored into it, the assertion that it is a primary driver of even a significant portion of laws is asinine. Further, stating that the suburbs are a racist construct is pure idiocy and shows no ability to conceptualize living preferences. People moved to and live in suburbs because they don't want to live in apartments and don't want to live in the middle of nowhere. They are a balance between the benefits of urban and rural living. It is as much a choice to avoid black people, overcrowding, and gangs as it is to avoid rednecks, isolation, and meth heads.
If you think everything is about race then you are the racist. It's crazy that people are incapable of understanding this.
He never claimed anything as strong as racism being the “primary driver”.
"Further, stating that the suburbs are a racist construct is pure idiocy and shows no ability to conceptualize living preferences. "
Thats unfortunately the dualist, binary, bipolar political method.
Persons unwillung or unable to think for themselves tend towards politics.
Been pointing it out for a while. Who gets arrested for weapons violations? Not the middle aged white guys living in exurbs or rural areas — the people leftists hate the most. Almost no police out in the exurbs and rural areas to arrest anyone. Rural white guy breaks gun laws; no one ever finds out.
The minority guy in the bad neighborhood gets arrested. Because that’s where police are active. He got a gun to protect himself or his family because he lives in a bad neighborhood. Leftist gun controllers would send him to prison.
And then the same stupid leftists complain about prison populations and blame the bogeyman for prison racial disparities.
The same malevolent leftist fools want a law enforcement crackdown on the unvaccinated, BTW. Unvaccinated are also disproportionately minorities.
Maybe German Kristallnacht laws were passed to keep Jews from getting hurt in firearms accidents. It would be just as convincing...
jews WERE slaves...
This LIE again?
"Sheila Jackson Lee's 2021 bill, which would establish a federal system to license gun owners and register their firearms"
That ALREADY exists.
This is a recycled leftist Troll meme.
NICS
FJB
Trumpanzees™ are suddenly all worried about gun rights?! Whutabout them Jezebels ending unwanted pregnancies? And whutabout the HORROR of some latino or hippie type lighting up a joint? Those were Big Deals to Christian Front Fascisti in September 2020. Jumping in front of the Libertarian Spoiler Vote Steamroller by attacking rights of half the voters was, in hindsight, not so smart maybe?
Honeybuns, the "fascisti" are where they have always been: among progressives and Democrats. People like you.
Oh, there is plenty of authoritarianism in both major political parties.
There may be plenty of "authoritarianism" in both parties, but fascism (i.e., anti-capitalist collectivism) is found almost exclusively among progressives and Democrats.
'a federal system to license gun owners' ?
That ALREADY exists???
Please, tell me where I need to go to get one of these 'licenses' as I don't have, and have never had anything like it.
i dint respond to deliberate stupidity, troll
But I commented on yours.
There is no 'Federal licensing for possessing a gun and the only registration for firearms is for those defined under the National Firearms Act of 1934 as annexed by Title II of the Gun Control Act of 1968, which are Machineguns, Short Barreled Rifles and Shotguns, Destructive Devises and a weird category of 'Any Other Weapons' which are like pen guns, smooth bore pistols etc.
in other words, YOU are the ignoramus here and you showed it
yea, your pisting nothing but personal attacks show your intelligence, Karen.
Noted firearms expert Sheila Jackson Lee, describing the AR-15:
AR-15 Heavy as 10-boxes, and fire .50 caliber bullets
She looks like a black Dolores Umbridge.
It depends on where you focus enforcement efforts. If a law is only used to prosecute deplorable white people, it's okay. You can only have sympathetic prosecutors give your supporters a pass...while you remind them that the pass only lasts as long as they're supporters.
Did you read the article? It details the history of how drug and gun laws, historically, were used to prosecute deplorable black (and Hispanic and Italian) people.
Modern gun control laws have their origin in Jim Crow. As do many components of the modern regulatory state.
Essentially, all this unconstitutional crap is the result of democrat racism. Just like all their current legislative agenda.
Racist lie.
Gun laws were founded during Prohibition and the gun violence of that period.
"The first piece of national gun control legislation was passed on June 26, 1934. The National Firearms Act (NFA) — part of President Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s “New Deal for Crime“— was meant to curtail “gangland crimes of that era such as the St. St. Valentine’s Day Massacre.
"
https://time.com/5169210/us-gun-control-laws-history-timeline/
Youre too stupid or lazy to even Google it?
There were in fact gun control laws at the local and state level well before 1934.
changing the topic fail.
These laws were enacted because of high rates of violence and drug use in particular neighborhoods. The objective was to get murderers and drug dealers off the streets. For some reason, you and Sullum seem to think that wanting to make minority neighborhoods safer by locking up criminals is some kind of "racism".
As a libertarian, I happen to think that drugs and guns should be legal and widely available. But I'm not naive enough to think that such libertarian policies will actually help minority neighborhoods.
Yes, of course, nice information.
FL Studio Crack
The individual right to bear arms is decided law. We have a process for amendment. Go.
Lie and Lie.
BoR, not law.
BoR cannot be Amended. BoR is a statement by the People, its not the Constutuion
inalienable dorsnt refer to Little Green Men.
The Bill of Rights are a set of amendments to the constitution. The constitution can be amended such that the second amendment is repealed (see 21st amendment).
I'm not a liar, you're just misinformed.
Sullum noticed the NYT "cocaine negroes" collectivism. Context is improved when you notice that the next day China ratified TR's International Opium Convention. Nine days after that, the House version of Harrison Act offered ways to indict and bully physicians the way bigots in Texas seek to do today. In fact, Texas Senator Morris Sheppard was in the Alabama Citizen of 24FEB1914 crowing about his coming Prohibition Amendment. In June an anarchist tool stopped the Opium Convention by shooting an Archduke in opium-exporting Serbia. What could go wrong?
"Youre talking to a cocaine negro.!"
Steve Martin , paraphrased.
". "Thousands of men and women have suffered needlessly from the federal criminalization of marijuana," Jackson Lee said in 2020, "particularly in communities of color.""
Damned lying race baiting patrisan hypocrite:
"The Clintons’ War on Drugs: When Black Lives Didn’t Matter"
https://newrepublic.com/article/129433/clintons-war-drugs-black-lives-didnt-matter
Democrats lie like rugs.
Well, here is some good news.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/14/us/woman-wrongfully-convicted-exonerated-trnd/index.html
A woman who was imprisoned for 27 years for a murder she didn't commit was exonerated yesterday.
https://www.techexplorist.com/earths-interior-is-cooling-faster-than-thought/44130/
Good news: fewer earthquakes.
Bad news: the planet could freeze to death.
We need an emergency program to increase carbon dioxide production!
Okay, this article has to win an award for stupidest headline of the year, and it's only January.
"Games Bring Space Exploration Home. But They Omit the Full Risks"
https://www.wired.com/story/space-board-games-ethics/
Well of course they omit the *full* risks. They're only games! They're not in space! There is no danger of sudden decompression or dying in the cold icy depths of nothingness. Sheesh.
Good article about whether the virus is reaching endemic phase or not.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-15/from-pandemic-to-endemic-can-2022-succeed-where-2021-failed
An interesting story about what "really happened" on Jan. 6.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/06/capitol-attack-coup-attempt-trump-far-right-republicans
Yes I know it is from Sidney Blumenthal so it should be taken with a grain of salt. I don't know if I believe it. But it is an interesting story nonetheless.
The Guardian is less credible than Pravda was in its heyday.
What news sources do you recommend as credible?
What sites have libertarian advocacy that you consider up to your standards?
Something that isn’t communist?
Like Pravda, the Guardian isn't a news source, it's a propaganda tool.
And no news source is ever "credible"; meaning, you can't just believe what any news source says. If you want truth, you'll need to think and verify for yourself. "Ground News" may be helpful, an app which aggregates many news sources and labels stories with their biases.
Best sites for libertarian advocacy? Khan Academy, richdad.com, and your local protestant church.
Gun Control is not racist, it's just stupid.
Its doomed to fail.
1. Eyebrow tried it. Failed. Canada tried a gun roundup but ( gasp) found the country too large to enforce it.
2. China. As a response to invaders, farm implements were turned into weapons. Alas, kung fu.
It always fails. Cant defeat the Mongrel Hoardes.
Can't it be both? In fact, insofar as gun control ie rwcist, isn't it stupid too?
interesting how the Trolls are overtime on this story.
They respond to Dog Whistles that way.
Or Sock Whistles..
Someones writung pretending to be expert and THIS ignorant? Please...
"system Jackson Lee imagines is completely impractical, since gun owners would be understandably reluctant to identify themselves and their firearms so they could be entered in a federal database and required to apply for licenses. "
THAT ALL ALREADY EXISTS. The current system does that now.
Its hidden but there.
This blindly ignorant statement also shows lack of watching the news over the past 10 years.
Theres a HIDDEN system called Your Local Cops that do the databasing and keeping an eye on you, Citizen.
Youll have to get " in" with a Dealer to discover that. I did, and did.
A friend from VA said he drove into MD and was stopped by a cop wanting to know about his concealed pistol.
Said friend told me DO NOT GET A CC PERMIT THATS HOW THEY TRACK YOU.
Shithead Lees just chasing a Phantom called " gun show loophole" which doesnt really exist outside of transfers off record.
Shes as blindly ignorant as whomever made this statement.
ps " transfers off record" are a RIGHT also not requiring legal permission.
And "as black-on-black violence commanded increasing attention, gun bans promised a solution with the compelling logic of no guns equals no gun crime."
The essence of gun control; we don't want to make any overt demands that might appear disproportionate [as would be the case with targeting criminals], so we have to blame the gun, not the user; unless the user is a law abiding citizen who makes it difficult to ban guns.
The second pillar of gun control is that everything is submitted to a utilitarian balancing test, of rights vs. "common good." Under this scheme everything is up for discussion, and limitation, and the constitution is therefor a "living" document subject to change according to the needs of society [or rather as those needs are perceived by those with the clout].
Here are 7 at-home jobs that pay at least $100/day. And there’s quite the variety too! Some of these work-at-home jobs are more specialized, others are jobs that anyone can do. They all pay at least $3000/month, but some pay as much as $10,000. GO HOME PAGE FOR MORE DETAILS…….. Home Profit System
Here are 7 at-home jobs that pay at least $100/day. And there’s quite the variety too! Some of these work-at-home jobs are more specialized, others are jobs that anyone can do. They all pay at least $3000/month, but some pay as much as $10,000. GO HOME PAGE FOR MORE DETAILS…….. Home Profit System
Dimwit FauXi on tonites Network for Dimwits:
"Covid COULD become a yearly thing."
DO YA THINK, ASSHOLE?
COULD??
Captain Obvious on board.
It BEEN THAT FOR THREE FUCKING YEARS, DIMWIT .
And this Assweasels passed off as the Intellectual in charge?
I agree about that!
Assholes at it again.
He JUST got beat down in SCOTUS for his mandate and hes doing it again.
For the Karens in the crowd, thats Biden.
Bidets now pushing a mandate thru the Fed contracts process to make everyone wear N95 masks, reportedly based on the Holy CDC Guidance ( genuflect now))...)
This just came to me from an employer of a Fed contractor.
Apparently no one in the process has bothered to actually READ what both CDC AND NIH published on the " porosity of N 95 maaks."
They dont stop aerosols.
Useless except for filling up landfills.
Thats killing the Planet, dont'cha know!
equating gun control to pot control would make perfect sense if me smoking a blunt, fired a fast moving projectile with the ability to end someones life.
^Get aload of this guy giving less than zero shits about whether the person on the receiving end of a gun, gun law, or drug law is black!
In fact, pot does exactly that: it fires fast moving projectiles (alpha particles) into your lungs, and they have the ability to end your life.
In any case, in a free society, you'll have to accept that your fellow citizens have means of killing you at their disposal 24/7: guns, cars, knives, cleaning products, yard tools, cigarette lighters, gasoline, etc.
If you can't deal with that you need to see a mental health expert.
Congresswoman Lee, like to many others is, in plain but reasonably polite English, a consummate double talker. As for gun control and the history thereof, it was, is and remains anathema to the basic concepts of Civil Rights, as it exists in this country.
By the way, if the possession of guns is so terrible a situation, how come it is that additional penalties for the possession of guns during the commission of a crime were waved off by jurists and prosecutors, as was the case in Pennsylvania, and is perhaps echoed elsewhere too. Answers please.
One provision in Sheila Jackson Lee's bill would provide "The Attorney General shall make the contents of the database accessible to all members of the public..." So for instance, if your local criminal gang needed some more guns, just check the database to see who the next target will be. So why would she do that? Possible answers: 1) she belongs to a criminal gang herself, 2) she is getting paid off by criminal gangs, 3) other.
Democrats have been trying to disarm blacks ever since they lost the Civil War. It can be inconvenient for them to be armed while being lynched.
They haven't changed.
He’s a good intern.
Well when you define "slavery" that broadly, then everyone who isn't an anarchist supports "mental slavery".
The reason it hasn't worked is because leftists and democrats are being raised/taught that the constitution is racist because old white men wrote it. Therefore it doesn't matter.
Yes there are some on the far left who thinks that the entire Constitution should be thrown out because Jefferson owned slaves.
But there is an entire chasm of thought between "I support gun rights for their own sake" and "I oppose gun rights because the Constitution is racist". There are way more ideological positions than just those two. For example, a person might argue "I support gun rights only to the extent that it furthers a public good. So, hunting rifles and handguns for self-defense are okay. But not AR-15s or large capacity magazines, because those aren't needed for what I consider to be the public good". It certainly isn't a libertarian argument, but it isn't the "JEFFERSON WAS RACIST!!!" argument either.
The real obstacle here isn't the "Jefferson Was Racist" crowd, they are small and silly. The real obstacle here are the people who view liberty from a utilitarian perspective, as I framed it above. So, the people who say things like "no rights are absolute" and "with rights come obligations", these are the people who think that rights are only worth protecting if they produce "good outcomes". And that point of view, I submit, is FAR more common than the "Jefferson Was Racist" one.
And so Sullum is making the argument that gun control, while touted to have "good outcomes", actually doesn't, based on this one metric.
He's been saying all along sullum should have approached the idea from a pro liberty perspective.
But there just aren't that many people who conceptualize liberty in the same way that we libertarians do. Preaching to the choir can sometimes be fun, but at some point, one does want to construct an argument that maybe others will listen to. From my experience, if you start trying to defend gun rights based on the Second Amendment and the Constitution, a lot of people will just roll their eyes. Not because they hate the Constitution or think it is racist, but because this absolutist position on liberty just doesn't match their personal conception of liberty. "No one neeeeds extra-large magazines!!!", that sort of thing.
Besides Sullum’s article isn’t really an argumentative piece as much as it is meant to be historical.
You certainly can construct arguments for specific policies that way. Among the tens of thousands of laws and regulations progressives want to pass, you can probably find a fraction of one percent where they made a mistake and their policies are not actually justified on their own terms. And if you are really lucky, you can convince them of that.
For the remaining 99%+ of progressive laws and regulations science is on their side: given the values and objectives they have, they are adopting the policies that achieve that. So, you are never going to change their mind.
Well, and if you want for the US to become appreciably more libertarian, that is what needs to change. There is no way around it.
Mike Liarson is a squawking bird named Dee and should be treated as such.
“….for what I consider to be the public good.”
Lol. Yeah, “a person might argue…” that.
A radical individualist perhaps?
Yeah, rehashing history never gets old, mike.
Division and resentment is the point. Not “understanding”. How do you not see that yet?
Yes, but even at that, it fails, since it buys into the narrative that enacting laws that disproportionately result in the incarceration of blacks are somehow motivated by racism.
You know, you could try to argue the point being made instead of trying to make it personal.
Do you listen to the DarkHorse podcast?
"Division and resentment" is the point for some, sure.
For others, it is about understanding and exploration of issues.
There is either criteria for gun ownership or not.
If there is, the best description we have is that for a “well regulated militia”.
If there isn’t, then criminals, lunatics and little children have the right to bear arms.
Which do you think it is, dense one?
“Well, and if you want for the US to become appreciably more libertarian, that is what needs to change. There is no way around it.”
Don’t agree. It should be possible to sell liberty to the general public based solely on pragmatic arguments.
You advanced an opinion that was ignorant and based entirely on your personal viewpoint, and were mocked for it. When the entire population of the country chooses you as arbiter of the public good, then you may decide what that serves the public best. This seems fair.
Am thinking trump banged dee bag, and both its parents. Cannot think of any other reason for such a mindless obsession. Except, of course, plain old garden variety left-leaning ignorance, or progressive politics.
Now, dont engage in Hysteresis!
Its Mike, but you fools keep expecting anything but stupidity from it?
You can sell liberty to the public based solely on pragmatic arguments. That means you need to convince them to "conceptualize liberty in the same way libertarians do" with "pragmatic arguments".
But you can't sell individual libertarian policies to the public based solely on pragmatic arguments when such arguments start with progressive premises. That is, you first need to change people's premises and assumptions from progressive to libertarian before the pragmatic libertarian arguments even make sense to them.
There are: if you are a legally competent adult US citizen without a prior felony conviction, you have a right to own guns.
They are not legally competent adult US citizen without a prior felony conviction, hence the government can restrict their ability to purchase and own guns.
No, that's not it.
“ if you are a legally competent adult US citizen without a prior felony conviction, you have a right to own guns.”
That’s not in the constitution. A well regulated militia is.
You’re cherry picking the part of 2a you want as law and ignoring necessary constitutional criteria going elsewhere to the courts for the answer you want.
Courts don’t supersede the constitution.
Militia is also distinct from the People. If you had read the actual Bill of Rights instead of some revisionist bull crap, you would know that the amendments often cover multiple topically related subjects in parallel. That's their style. Besides, "well regulated" likely doesn't mean what paranoid holocaust deniers think it means.
There are no “necessary constitutional criteria”.
And you’re right that I’m ignoring the 2A because or is not relevant to the question of who may bear arms. The right to bear arms exists independent of the 2A, the 2A merely explicitly affirms it.
The right to bear arms exists because the power to restrict arms hasn’t been delegated to the government anywhere in the Constitution.