Texas' 6-Week Abortion Ban Threatens Every Constitutional Right
If it is upheld, state legislators easily could use the strategy embodied in S.B. 8 to attack other rights the Supreme Court has recognized.

S.B. 8, a Texas law that took effect on September 1, 2021, bans pre-viability abortions, which is clearly unconstitutional under the U.S. Supreme Court's precedents. To dodge legal accountability for that in federal court, Texas outsourced S.B. 8's enforcement to private actors.
The law authorizes "any person" to sue "any person" who performs or facilitates an abortion after fetal cardiac activity can be detected, which typically happens around six weeks into a pregnancy. It promises successful plaintiffs a bounty of at least $10,000, plus reimbursement of their legal fees. Because state officials are not implementing the law, Texas maintains, they cannot be sued in federal court to block its enforcement.
In November, when the Supreme Court considered the viability of that dodge, Justice Brett Kavanaugh cut to the heart of the matter, asking Texas Solicitor General Judd Stone about "the implications of your position for other constitutional rights." What if a state passed a law that says "everyone who sells an AR-15 is liable for a million dollars to any citizen," Kavanaugh asked. "Would that kind of law be exempt from pre-enforcement review in federal court?"
Stone conceded that his argument meant it would. His answer, he said, "does not turn on the nature of the right."
In other words, Kavanaugh said, "Second Amendment rights, free exercise of religion rights, free speech rights" could all "be targeted by other states" using the Texas abortion law as a model. "You also said that the amount of the penalty doesn't matter," Kavanaugh added. "A state passes a law [that says] anyone who declines to provide a good or service for use in a same-sex marriage [is liable for] a million dollars if sued by anyone in the state—that's exempt from pre-enforcement review?"
Stone was clear: "Yes, Your Honor."
Justice Sonia Sotomayor later picked up on the same line of questioning. Suppose, she said, "a state dissatisfied with [District of Columbia v.] Heller," the landmark decision upholding the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms for self-defense, "says anyone who possesses a firearm anywhere is subject to litigation by any private citizen anywhere in the country," who "gets a million-dollar bounty." The issue "is not limited to abortion," she noted. It implicates any right "a state is dissatisfied with."
Kavanaugh and Sotomayor are correct to worry. If it is upheld, state legislators easily could use the strategy embodied in S.B. 8 to attack other rights the Supreme Court has recognized. That prospect should trouble Americans of every political stripe.
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Killing an unborn baby is not a constitutional right.
The Supreme Court decided long ago who is and is not a human being with the right to life. It is known. Your wrongthink immediately identifies you as a cis white biological male who hates women, children, black people, brown people, trans people, gay people, puppies, choice, freedom, democracy, voting rights, and the environment.
Don't you get it? If Texas is allowed to interfere with the fundamental, Constitutional right to end an in-progress pregnancy, all rights are threatened. They'll come for the 2nd next. You watch.
Dictionaries which impart meaning to all language define the unborn as persons.
The courts have no business redefining words they subsequently use in their decisions.
When the courts did in RvW disregarding the inalienable right to life of unborn persons they demonstrated their willingness and ability to violate any rights they choose.
As a direct result of their decision and selfish immoral people like yourself, over 60 million US persons have been murdered.
They’re already after our ability to defend ourselves and it is people like you helping them.
It is perfectly consistent with the principles expressed in the Declaration of Independence to assert that the "endowing" with unalienable rights occurs at birth. We normally celebrate our birthdays as marking when we came into existence, not presumed days of conception. If you are going by ordinary usage of language, I'd say Roe v. Wade was correct.
But that has nothing to do with the technique used by this Texas law anyway. It can be used to target any right that the legislature would rather not see protected, and would utterly shred the Bill of Rights if upheld. Stopping this law is essential if the whole concept of Constitutionally-protected rights is to endure.
And BTW, while it is also beside the point, there is no fetal heart at six weeks, so there can't actually be a heartbeat. The "cardiac activity" that they talk about being detectable at six weeks is only detectable electrically, not mechanically/acoustically.
You simply repeated the decision and declared it to be correct. That’s not an argument.
Logically the right to life is attributed to every person who is alive. That logically includes the unborn.
RvW admitted that the decision will collapse if and when the unborn are recognized as persons.
The only definition that demonstrates the unborn are persons that changed since 1973 was that of an individual. DNA science proved beyond any doubt in 1989 that the unborn are different living human individuals, persons, from the mother.
RvW should have collapsed no later than 1989 which would have saved the lives of 40 million US people.
As usual, Hitler apologist Misek blithely states his opinion as fact without making an argument for it, while accusing those who argue against him of not having an argument.
There is no right to life guaranteed in the Constitution.
People on the right and left both like to interpret the constitution to suit their views. That is why the Constitution should be interpreted literally as written. If people don't like what is written, it can be amended.
Do you deny the validity of the Declaration of Independence?
Regarding the constitution itself, one cannot enjoy any rights if they are dead, logically the right to life is required and included.
“ We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
And you’re just wrong
14th amendment
Section 1
“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”
Note that it says "born", not "conceived".
Great Point!
Also to Rob, the Declaration of Independence is just that. It is not the bedrock of our legal system. There is only one supreme legal document over all others and that is the Constitution. There is a reason why there is no amendment process for the Declaration -- there is no need to amend it because it is not used for legal purposes.
So you’re saying the DOI is good for nothing.
That’s your opinion.
If you understood context you would recognize that “Born” refers to the criteria for citizenship note it goes on to say “nor shall any persons” referring to non citizens.
The unborn are human individuals, persons, as per our dictionary definitions but they don’t need their own citizenship until they are born.
The 14th amendment guarantees them the right to life.
If YOU understood context you would see that by defining citizens as those "born" they are defining persons as those "born". It would make no sense for them to have recognized the unborn as persons but to have denied them citizenship until born.
They weren’t defining persons at all.
The 14th defined citizens as born or naturalized and merely referred to persons as non citizens which everybody knows means human individuals.
A citizen is someone you can present documents to. Put them in the persons hands.
The unborn have their own hands but they remain inside the mother and can’t receive documents until birth.
Personhood, human individuality of the unborn is present after conception when a different living human body starts growing.
It doesn’t require the interpretation of law to make someone a human individual, a person.
The concept of an inalienable right transcends the law.
A court can take away your citizenship but it can’t take away your personhood.
The meaning of the word inalienable is proof of existence that transcends the law. Since the meaning of words transcends the law therefore the courts have no business defining words.
Science, logic, truth, reality are inalienable.
They transcend law.
That’s how logic and science demonstrate truth which beats evil, the cancel culture.
Did I just set the record?
No, you’re a Dime a dozen.
“The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. When there is a gap between one’s real and one’s declared aims, one turns as it were instinctively to long words and exhausted idioms, like a cuttlefish spurting out ink.“ George Orwell
Your insincere comment is like the ink from another slimy invertebrate.
We use "birthdays" because it sets a point in time from which that life can be celebrated. But the fact that the life exists, is known long before that point. Even for the ancients. There just isn't a set point that will universally be considered as the one from which celebration of the life can commence, thus "birthday".
Obviously, a woman seeking an abortion, knows that there is life in her unborn child. She wouldn't seek to end that life if she didn't.
Texas law sets a measurable point from which ending that life becomes criminal. The byzantine mechanism is a way to work around a improperly reasoned "law" that prohibits other forms of enforcement by the entity that is entrusted with protecting life - the government.
What would we do if the Nazgul decided that government could no longer prosecute for the murder of the "viable", which is the point at which the original WvW decision made their limit?
How callously you discuss murder.
Most of these fuckwits succeed at deluding themselves that the unborn aren’t persons.
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You left out clubbing baby seals and lighting brown paper bags full of dogshit on the porches of the elderly.
They’ll come for the 2nd next
That ship sailed long ago.
That's not what Roe did. Try reading the actual decision.
Texas is using the wrong approach - that's the argument - that can be applied to other issues.
We are broadly agreed that someone who is an accident or has a disease that terminates brain activity can be considered to be dead. We should merely apply that to a fetus - no brain activity, no life. I know many here will disagree, but consider using your definition to those who suffer brain injuries (Terri Schiavo comes to mind) how long should they be kept alive after their brains are dead?
Compromise here: if brain activity doesn't begin for... say... 9 months, then you can kill it.
The question is whether third parties have a right to sue abortion providers. The question is also whether third parties have a right to sue gun manufacturers and others.
I maintain that in a free society, we have a right to do things that harm other people--so long as we don't violate their rights. If I build a pizza restaurant right next to yours and put you out of business with better food, better service, and a lower price, and it drives you out of business so that your car is repossessed, you lose your home to the bank, your wife divorces you, and she takes your kids and your dog, well, I have a right to build a pizza restaurant right next to yours and put you out of business anyway.
A free society requires us to be free to harm each other--so long as we don't violate other people's rights. This law makes it so that people who weren't even harmed by our actions can use the government to address wrongs they were not a party to and did not suffer.
Well written Ken! Kudos!
Honestly very well said Ken.
I maintain that in a free society, we have a right to do things that harm other people--so long as we don't violate their rights.
I think that you are going to need to be more precise in your definition of "harm". Otherwise all you are left with is a tautology:
When is harm okay? When it doesn't violate people's rights.
When are people's rights violated? When they have suffered harm.
Furthermore, in your example. you are not giving due credit to the free choices of others in their roles. If the bank forecloses on my house, then it is the bank that has "harmed" me in this example, not you for opening up your pizza shop next to mine. You don't have the right to force the bank to foreclose on me, you don't have the right to take my house away from me. It was the bank that decided to foreclose.
And it's blubbering sacks of progshit like you that make such semantics a necessity.
You do not have a right to live free from harm and always safe. That amendment missed the bus. There is an implicit requirement to be a adult and wipe your own ass in there, which maybe should vet written more visibly for those that struggle with such things... Like, coffee is hot.
We have a right to harm people by saying harmful things about them--assuming they're true.
Social justice warriors couldn't exist without the right to harm people with our speech.
So speech is harmful now?
You are being awfully vague with your definition of "harm".
That's not what he said, but then nobody expected you to be honest.
No, but the progressive doctrine explicitly states that speech is violence, and harmful. Could Jeff be gaslighting?
The whole purpose of cancel culture is for social justice warriors to speak out against racists and harm their careers with speech.
If you absolutely need a definition of harm, use your brain and pick a synonym that doesn't involve nebulous legal definitions. "Negative outcome" or "bad things" fit just fine.
Speech is only harmful when it is either a lie or the exposure of a lie used in legitimate self defence.
All else, the truth aka reality, will set you free to evolve.
"Social justice warriors couldn't exist without the right to harm people with our speech."
No, no. Social justice warriors insist on the right to harm others with SJW's speech. They make no pretense that anyone else has that right. It's fundamental to Leftism that the same rules do NOT apply to everyone.
You do not have a right to live free from harm and always safe.
Yeah I do actually - depending on your precise definition of "harm". Do I have a right not to be murdered by random psychopaths intentionally killing innocent people? Yeah I think so. Even libertarians would agree that murder should not be legal.
But see here you (and Ken) are, defining "harm" in the vaguest possible sense, in order to blur the distinction between very serious levels of harm, like those associated with murder, with very trivial levels of harm, like the "harm" associated with saying mean words. There is a line to be drawn between harm that should be actionable by state authorities, and harm that shouldn't be.
Furthermore, even if I were to grant your premise that "there is no right to be free from harm", there is still the concept of negligence. Does that even exist in your world? That is, while you don't have a *right* to not be harmed by me, I nevertheless still have a *duty* to take reasonable steps to not try to intentionally or accidentally try to harm you. We can have an honest disagreement about what steps are "reasonable", but I think it's completely unreasonable that there should not be any concept of negligence whatsoever.
“Let's just make this easy. I'm in favor of a Constitutional amendment that would read something like this:
'Neither the federal government, nor any state or local government shall make any activity a crime unless said activity violates another person's right to life, liberty, or property, either through force or fraud.'
Could you live with that? Could you live with the thought that anyone in your community could do pretty much what they wish, so long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else? Now there's a definition of freedom--and it's something I suspect most of you just couldn't go along with.”
― Neal Boortz
So long as it is agreed that, from the moment you can detect its presence, an unborn child is a person.
But see here you (and Ken) are, defining "harm" in the vaguest possible sense
Ken provided a concrete example of an action that harmed the pizza shop next door without interfering with that shop's rights. Did you miss the point?
As opposed to your definition of harm that is "how can I shoehorn enough harm into a hypothetical about bears in trunks to justify authoritarianism."
Everything we do--or don't do--harms someone else in some way. Every time we exhale CO2, we're hurting people somewhere according to progressives.
You chose to buy the less expensive, higher quality import? How dare you! Don't you know you're destroying the lives of well paid workers all over America?!
There's nothing wrong with caring more about yourself and your family than you do about whatever progressives care about or what society cares about as a whole. A right is a right despite society's interests, or it isn't really a right at all.
And progressives socialism isn't a society where no one can harm other people with their choices. It's a society where no one is allowed to do (or not do) anything unless it's okay with the progressive government.
I fully agree. NAP only works on the idea of intended harm, not unintentional harm. But Jeff prefers the latter. It is how you give government power over a virus, over energy uses, over utilizing a resource.
Buying food and shelter for you and your family causes a marker fluctuation that Jeff will claim has a harm to the poor. But the action only provided security to the individual. It was not done to actively harm another.
That is something Jeff intentionally misrepresents.
Oh no Ken you just gave the progs on Reason another jihad. Runners exhale more C02 than non runners so....time for a runner's carbon tax/trading credits. I'm sure a bunch of Big Tech/Wall Street/Hedge Fund bolshies could run the whole thing after Chuck Schumer writes the legislation. Hell Bernanke isn't doing anything..he could run the exchange.
Every time we exhale CO2, we're hurting people somewhere according to progressives.
No, and that's one of the fundamental strawman premises in conservative thought. That or it reveals a total and willful ignorance of basic science.
According to the followers of the global warming religion, it's additional CO2 that's bad. As in the output from burning fossil fuels. That creates new CO2 that wasn't part of the system.
What you exhale is not new CO2.
But I know neither you nor any of the conservatives on this board will give even a moment of critical thinking to that because it goes against the narrative. That and you judge what someone says based upon their politics, not what they say.
So please, keep saying that exhaling adds new CO2 to the atmosphere. It just shows that you're willfully ignorant, and proud of it.
A living animal breathes in oxygen and exhales CO2.
In a closed system, that exhaled CO2 replaces the oxygen.
How does that not become "new CO2"?
His claim is that the CARBON was locked away in fossil resources and now becomes part of the carbon cycle, hence newly released.
The problem is that there is proof that the added carbon does anything harmful. AGW is BS. All the models are crap. Much of the 'data' has been corrupted intentionally by warmist propagandists. It's the sickest abuse of science in history.
But what happens when a growing portion of society, including a major political party, fixates on harm prevention as their core value? See Haidt and others.
If their definition of freedom echoes the progressive mantra of FDR ("freedom from want" and "freedom from fear"), then how long until civil war over whose "freedom" is better?
Looks like Jeff showed up in time to demonstrate my point.
But what happens when a growing portion of society, including a major political party, fixates on harm prevention as their core value?
You are of course referring to Team Red which justifies all manner of authoritarian bullshit in the name of stopping the "harm", real or imagined, that might emanate from terrorists, Muslims, illegals, Mexicans, and other scapegoats imagined to be the enemy of the Homeland?
Or maybe you are referring to libertarians who view strict enforcement of the NAP as the ultimate in "harm reduction" strategy?
You are illustrating MY point. You need to have a more concrete definition of "harm" if you want to make your point in anything other than a tautological manner.
Ahh yes. Border control is the forcing of harm in the minds of idiots.
Jeff. Going yo ask you honestly. Do you truly believe the only valid law is one that commits no harm to anybody? So a border law that denies entry *which isn't even a harm* is invalid? Because you've staten often that government is justified to provide welfare and finding to others through taxes despite taxes being an actual taking that can lead to harm under your definition.
If you are up for some semi-serious reading (and data) read the analyses of moral foundations by Haidt and the moral preference variations of different political groups, and then get back to us. Oh, and take the moral foundations survey and give us a report.
He won't read Haidt because it showed the left is far more prone to declare the motivation of their opponents as evil in surveys.
What's pertinent here is that the work by Haidt and colleagues showed that of the 5 or 6 moral foundations, liberals are more strongly dedicated to harm prevention than others, plus a specific type of fairness (equal distribution).
Why should I read Haidt, as opposed to some other authority on the matter?
Right-wingers love to do this sort of thing - out of a universe of possible authority figures on a subject, they point to THE ONE expert that we all MUST consult - not because he is representative of some expert consensus, but because he says things that right-wingers like to hear.
So while I am sure Haidt might have some valuable things to say, why should I read him over others?
They do the same thing with the mRNA guy. Out of an entire universe of people who are knowledgeable at least on some level with regards to mRNA, they find the ONE GUY who says something skeptical about mRNA technology, and they latch on to him as THE EXPERT who must not be questioned.
If it might entice you, Haidt consulted for the Obama campaigns, including how to better appeal to voters based on inherent moral biases. He describes himself as a liberal who has become more libertarian as his investigations matured.
But most of all, read Haidt because he is broadly recognized as an innovative and objective social scientist, with abundant quality data.
Social Science is not science...come on man..even corn pop knows it all BS.
Any politician who votes to increase my taxes harms me. If their policies increase the cost of products I use, they've harmed me. If their policies prevent me from getting or keeping a job, they've harmed me.
Agreed?
Or team Blue that thinks words harm and we need safe spaces? Or that BLM riots and Antifa looting, punching, etc don't cause harm right?
Let's see - illegals harm the economy by undercutting on jobs. Oh and there is that thing called the law. Terrorists - yeap no terrorists have ever attacked her or France or even Russia. All it was all made up.
Is there a left talking point you don't believe? You can't be this dumb...wait you are nevermind.
Given the way standing has been limited generally, let alone on this topic it's probably hard to include legitamately interested parties from random people. The boyfriend/fiance has no standing but probably has a legitimate interest.
And that's being weaponized intentionally by the progressives.
"Newsom said, “If the most efficient way to keep these devastating weapons off our streets is to add the threat of private lawsuits, we should do just that.”
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/gun-bill-california-newsom/
He's saying the world would be a better place if we were all accountable to each other for our actions regardless of whether the action in question even impacted us.
"If I build a pizza restaurant right next to yours and put you out of business with better food, better service, and a lower price, and it drives you out of business so that your car is repossessed, you lose your home to the bank, your wife divorces you, and she takes your kids and your dog, well, I have a right to build a pizza restaurant right next to yours and put you out of business anyway."
Larry David tried to do this to a coffee shop owner in the tv series Curb Your Enthusiasm. it was funny but did not end well.
Spite Store!
"...in a free society, we have a right to do things that harm other people--so long as we don't violate their rights."
"A free society requires us to be free to harm each other--so long as we don't violate other people's rights."
Killing that unborn person sure sounds like violating its rights.
In societies of hundreds of millions of people, all government has to go on are statistics. You can make a law requiring seatbelts that will save X number of lives, and you balance that benefit against the harm against freedom of requiring seatbelt use. In that case, it's a pretty easy tradeoff. For we also permit driving at speeds that will result in Y number of deaths, and we deem that acceptable in exchange for the freedom. There is no correct equation for any of these choices, there is simply the prevailing moral sentiment of the people. And if you live in a democracy, it's the people who get to make those choices.
We aren't free unless we are free to make rules for our society. We get to decide what rights are. We get to decide what amount of death we're willing to tolerate in exchange for liberty. Hopefully, in the end, we have some set of rules that mitigates harm without being oppressive. It's just a never-ending negotiation with each other.
I'm not entirely sure you don't want to replace that free system with one that sets all the rules upfront which can never change. And the guy who gets to set the rules is whom, remind me? Some fat orange fuck?
I feel free when I get to make rules for myself, not for others. I don´t need that ability to feel free.
But you do want to make rules for others. Rules like "don't murder me" and stay off my lawn." You have a whole long list of rules for other people.
"Killing an unborn baby is not a constitutional right."
Deciding for yourself, whether or not you will marry precisely within your ethnic, religious, national, philosophical, etc., group, is not an enumerated constitutional right, either. So it would be totally cool to sub-contract the making of $millions in profit, to private sewers, I mean sue-rs, in micro-managing these decisions via CIVIL (not criminal) court actions!
The FACT that, AFTER the Government Almighty's court actions are concluded, it is STILL Government Almighty that enforces stealing your money, you horrible violator? It was done via CIVIL methods, so it's all OK!
Do you people ever actually bother to THINK?!?!
You don't bother, so it's funny that you're saying that to us.
Now explain to us again why you think people shouldn't have anymore rights than farm animals, like you did the last time the issue of baby abattoirs came up.
Anti-choicers are the ones that trot out arguments about "sacred rights" of sacred HUMAN fertilized egg cells, and then have NO answers for me (or others) about WHERE does the SPECIFIC sacredness of HUMAN DNA come from? If and when we meet intelligent space aliens, will we continue to get hyper about OUR rights and ignore THEIR rights? Not human, no rights?
The burden here is on the anti-choicers to explain their humans-worship, and NOT on those who insist that we think more broad-mindedly!
So tell us then... WHERE does specific HUMAN-DNA worship come from, and how is it justified?
Much as I hate to engage you;
If HUMAN-DNA is not worthy of the distinction you call "worship", something that the unborn, undeniably contains, then in the dystopian SQRLSY world the killing of one containing HUMAN-DNA should not be prohibited.
Personhood is based on intelligence, not genetics.
HeLa cells are human, but aren't part of a person.
Fetuses are human, but not people.
Same goes for brain dead corpses - they're human corpses, but they're dead, and thus no longer people.
The rebuttal of a complete moron.
Babies grow up to be people. Unless, of course, they get murdered in the womb so mom and dad can have a more enjoyable and convenient life.
Because more than 9/10 abortions have nothing to do with medical necessities or trauma. Murder for convenience.
Closer to 99/100
^This
The fact of the matter is that if you can look a a sonogram three months in and still say "lets kill him/her", you're a psychotic monster.
The only evidence for the "nothing to do with necessity" was a survey in Florida, where the "elective abortion" selection also acted as both the "other" and "no response" answer. Surveys based on embarrassing, sensitive, or taboo topics aren't worth the paper they are written on due to consistent lying and cheating.
I think we can agree that no good story ends in an abortion clinic. Whether it was abuse, assault, neglect, addiction, or just being unable to care for the child, there is a very strong and personal reason for this decision.
Irrelevant. Something developing into a person later doesn't mean it is a person right now. Otherwise eggs and sperm cells would be people.
Are you just fucking ignorant or dishonest or an evil combination of both? Of course egg and sperm cells aren't people. When they combine and implant in a female uterus they become a person. What the fuck is wrong with you leftist science deniers?
I'll be the first to admit I hate everyone. I totally agree with you. It's to get out of responsibility. Actions have consequences. Sex can lead to pregnancy.
Of course, males have no say. Oh and Planned Parenthood was made to thin out the black population but that is ok.
Abortion is a law not a right. The new gen think Internet is also right too so not suprised.
While I agree that you're a complete moron, I don't think that qualifies as a rebuttal.
Do you think, some time soon, you libertarians might get around to explaining for which reasons you don't want the government forcing people into cages?
I would only support the government placing you in a cage, Tony. But I would absolutely support your right to keep posting your leftist stupidity. Every time you post, two conservatives are created. Honestly, I don't want the government to censor anyone; I want Tony to convert many people to conservatism.
Suing to prevent abortions violates an unwritten constitutional right and everything built upon it, but suing to prevent firearm production and ownership is just how democracy is supposed to work.
Suing to prevent firearm production and ownership is just how democracy is supposed to work but suing Twitter or Facebook for knowingly spreading disinformation, especially by selectively oppressing known true information, would destroy the unwritten constitutional right to editing, and everything built upon it.
Using someone's body to live for 9 months is also not a constitutional right. And the owner of the already-born body gets to decide. Not the government.
"Using someone's body" implies that the "someone" played no role in that "use".
Pro-lifers might agree if the mother could prove that the "use" was forced on her, with a contemporaneous reporting when the action happened.
Translated - unborn babies are parasites.
I'm glad the animal kingdom never realized that.
Fetuses aren't people.
The thing that differentiates a person from an animal is intelligence. Fetuses are less intelligent than pigs, an animal we eat.
You don't have the right to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term in any case.
Progs don't have intelligence, so get rid of them as well.
By your definition, when do you become a person? A pig or dog is smaller then a 4 yr old. They aren't people either.
For you, you are fine if they abort a day before delivery then right?
Again, how about not having unprotected sex? Or even the day after pill.
It threatens a right that doesn’t exist while protecting a right that does
Man you people just really love to kill babies. Lucky for you your parent didn’t think that
Are we also lucky that our parents didn´t use a condom that one time, or that is perhaps malfunctioned? I see no substantial difference.
Yes, bingo, esteve7 & ilk want to micro-manage your bedroom behavior and use of birth control. esteve7 is probably OK with imposing and imposterating esteve7's beliefs that UNFARTILIZED EGGS, too, have souls, & so they must ALL be fartilized! Preferably via esteve7's brain farts and other self-righteous, micro-managing, authoritarian impulses.
"It's alright to kill someone if their conception was accidental"
Fuck off, you psychotic ghoul.
In once case, there is a child murdered.
In the other case, a child was not conceived.
If you cannot distinguish a difference, please sterilize yourself with an ice cream scoop.
And using the courts to shut down the political process on a controversial issue the Constitution is silent about leads to work around like the Texas abortion law. Roe has been a corruption on the courts and American politics since it was handed down andctherefore is the source of the threat to all constitutional rights.
Remember folks, It's Always Team Blue's fault!
Team Blue made Texas pass this abomination of a law!
By using mind control from the Lizard People, that is. So the Lizard People, too, are to be blamed! DOWN with the Lizard People!!!!
The Texas law is an antibody against the virus that was introduced to our politics by Blackmun's folly of a decision.
The Texas law is not an autonomic biological response. It was a CONSCIOUS CHOICE made by Team Red legislators to try to use a very bad and very flawed legal strategy to try to stop abortion. When are you going to actually acknowledge the agency of Team Red?
When are you ever going to recognize the faults of team blue you leftist shit? Roe is a leftist decision and without that there is no Texas law for you to whine about. God you are stupid.
Now tell us why psychotic leftists cannot accept the conscious choice to have sex can lead to conception and a human life. Not a tumorous clump of cells, a human life.
When are you going to recognize that objection to the law's enforcement mechanism says nothing about how someone feels about abortion?
Although often wrong, you are correct on this point.
To try and stop LEGAL, SAFE abortion. Not stop abortion.
This law will just kill women. Already-born women.
Once again:
IT'S ALWAYS TEAM BLUE'S FAULT
Team Blue is responsible for everything, including stripping the agency away from Team Red.
Not a lefty!
Yeah, Team Blue was just doing what's necessary to protect freedom but Team Red isn't even a part of the immune system.
Not a leftist!
The courts exist for the purpose of resolving legal issues.
It's amazing how strong the overlap is between supposedly "pro-life" people and anti-vaxxers. It's almost like they don't actually care about people, they care about pretending to be righteous.
Cute. You mean the people that said you can't get covid during a BLM protest? Or the side that wants to kill babies, but you better get your vaccine. Or the side that doesn't care about killings in big cities because of a president they don't like.
I'm not for either side but the left pays a lot more lip service for pretending to care then the right. Hell, they can't even follow their own mask rules. Btw have vaccine still got Covid. I got it from my financee who had the booster and got it.
Since the Texas abortion law is such an abomination, I can't see any other state using it as a model to be followed for infringing on other rights. If you're using it as an excuse to infringe on 2A rights, for example, aren't you then agreeing that the abortion law is a legitimate law? Surely politicians aren't that cynical that they would use the "two wrongs make a right" excuse - or at least they shouldn't. Isn't that the reasoning you use to argue for Republicans taking the high road and not adopting the tactics of the Left in fighting dirty? So why are you intimating that the Left will naturally fight dirty when the Right does so?
I laughed. Good one.
It's called retaliation.
If it is upheld, state legislators easily could use the strategy embodied in S.B. 8 to attack other rights the Supreme Court has recognized.
I'm pretty sure they've already been using this strategy to attack rights that are written directly into the constitution. In fact, I'm pretty sure the whole idea for "the strategy embodied in S.B. 8" came from those other examples.
I'm pretty sure that there are unicorns somewhere. I just haven't found one yet. Hold tight now, I'm still looking!
Lawsuits against gun manufacturers.
https://www.npr.org/2021/09/03/1033950752/remington-subpoenas-the-school-records-of-children-slain-at-sandy-hook
From above…
“In July, Remington offered a $33 million settlement. The plaintiffs have yet to respond to the offer, the Post says.”
Remington is being held responsible for the doings of a gone-bonkers user of its product… Classic “Punish Party A for the doings of Party B”. This injustice is based on "deep pockets", rather than personal responsibility, and it ignores 2A rights.
HOWEVER, the parents of the slain children were hurt... They do have "Standing" to sue. Do you have an example (examples) of where people who had NO standing, were explicitly encouraged (by the state) to sue gun manufacturers, in this bounty-hunting style?
They did not claim that Remington shot their kids.
"Newsom’s proposed law would allow private citizens to sue manufacturers, distributors, or sellers of assault rifles or “ghost gun” kits in the state of California. These bounty hunters would be entitled to at least $10,000, plus attorney fees, per violation. If enacted, the threat of a lawsuit would make it very difficult for anyone to open a gun shop in California. Newsom said, “If the most efficient way to keep these devastating weapons off our streets is to add the threat of private lawsuits, we should do just that.”
----The Nation, December 14, 2021
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/gun-bill-california-newsom/
This story looks like it was from the late 1990's.
Nixon signed an ABM treaty with a communist dictatorship to infringe Amendment 2 of the Bill of Rights. Nobody but the Libertarian Defense Caucus took notice of this before April 1986. Republicans nodded and chewed with bovine incomprehension as the Constitution was violated to invite a nuclear attack.
It's important to make sure our conclusions flow from our premises. In college, these days, I think they teach people to choose a conclusion first--and then look for premises to justify it later. That may be what's necessary when a criminal defense lawyer needs to presume the innocence of a defendant--and rationalize his client's actions to a jury from a biased standpoint of innocence. In just about every other real world situation (outside of the fastest way to write a college term paper), that whole approach is wrong. Your conclusion should flow from your premises--not vice versa.
You don't start from the conclusion that abortion is wrong and then use whatever means are laying around to rationalize every single antiabortion issue that comes down the pike. Because abortion is wrong, doesn't mean that blowing up abortion clinics should be legal, that abortion providers should be subjected to cruel and unusual treatment by the judiciary, or that abortion clinics should be driven out of business by lawsuits from third parties--who suffered no wrong. Most of you would recognize this as a progressive tactic if it were associated with any other issue.
Rapists shouldn't be sued by people they didn't rape. Drunk drivers shouldn't be subject to lawsuits by people they didn't harm. Gun manufacturers shouldn't be made to answer in court by people who were not impacted by a shooting with one of their guns. Racist companies should not be made to compensate plaintiffs who were not victims of their racism. And if anyone tells you that libertarians holding all of those positions means that we're promoting rape, drunk driving, mass shootings, or racism, you should laugh in their faces.
We start from a premise of liberty and justice, and our positions should be derived from those principles regardless of whether we like it. The principles of liberty and justice certainly don't disappear because we don't like their implications when it comes to punishing terrorists, protecting the free speech rights of racists, respecting the Sixth amendment rights of rapists, or when it comes to protecting the right of abortion clinics not to be forced by the government to answer for harms by people who did not suffer because of them.
Ken is on a roll today! Good job Ken!
I agree with you, Ken.
But maybe you should have thought of that before you started defending the Jan. 6 riots as a legitimate means to stop Biden's agenda.
https://reason.com/2021/01/06/trump-tweets-about-mike-pences-betrayal-while-his-supporters-force-the-v-p-to-evacuate-the-capitol/?comments=true#comment-8677733
The weapon less revolution that the left is still using as propaganda. Maybe you should have applied your rhetoric for this event to BLM riots.
A bunch of disorderly people mostly peacefully protesting where they shouldn't be is a pretty damn traditional style of dissent.
How many times have you been linked leftist mobs in state buildings with vastly more property damage, only to ignore it?
Don't tu quoque on Ken. Doing so reduces you to the level of the conservatard trolls.
Parhetic. Lol. Congrats sqrsly.
Fuck off you leftist cunt. You celebrated marxists burning cities and seizing control of neighborhoods to terrorize the residents, but an unarmed protest by the right is a bridge too far for you. Where were these complaints when a marxist mob forced the evacuation of the President, where were they when one forced itself into congressional proceedings for a Supreme Court justice? Right, not a peep from you. Go to hell you anti-American piece of shit.
Do you want to know what is really un-American? Trying to disrupt the peaceful transition of power by force. Why aren't you denouncing this un-American attack on the republic?
Millions of Americans, perhaps tens of millions, honestly believe the election was stolen. So in their minds Jan 6 was totally justified. That and the summer riots weren't sufficiently condemned and prosecuted, which means... absolutely nothing but the right, just like the people they hate, has adopted tu quoque as an effective means of argumentation so it means something to them. It means they can say "Oh yeah? Well whatabout when you...?" and then cross their arms in smug victory.
Plenty of people believe the earth is flat. It isn't.
The election wasn't stolen, either, no matter what anyone believes.
Arsonists in the summer riots, most of whom were white supremacist instigators, were indeed prosecuted.
All you have are lies, and your lies support treason.
A deadly attack! A deadly attack!
Maybe the left should have thought about it before they started defending the much more violent riots of the last two years.
Show people that your own violence goes unpunished, you have to expect that sooner or later your foes start using it, too.
What you seem to be arguing is that lawsuits for damages against private actors should be subject to customary Article III standing rules.
Perhaps a reasonable argument can be made that lawsuits for damages against private actors by those who lack Article III standing violate due process.
(Right now, there are arguments, yet to be resolved by the Texas judiciary, that S.B. 8 violates the Texas Constitution's own standing requirements.)
I'm not sure about the precise wording or the legal jargon behind it, but the idea that the defendants in civil actions should at least be the people who the plaintiffs claim harmed them is fundamental. For practical purposes, this kind of fundamental principle appears to be baked into the foundation of habeas corpus itself, when a judge orders a prisoner brought before the court to determine whether the prisoner is being lawfully detained.
The fundamental point in habeas corpus is when the court is asking the state questions like, "Why do you think this is the person who committed the crime?" The judge needs to know that before he or she can even determine whether the person should be subjected to a trial. It seems like the same thing here. If the person being sued didn't harm the plaintiff, then why should the defendant be subjected to a trial?
There is litigation in Texas state courts raising that argument.
If the Texas judiciary agrees, then S.B. 8 would, in a sense, evade federal judicial review, just not in the sense the detractors claim.
Gun manufacturers shouldn't be made to answer in court by people who were
notimpacted by a shooting with one of their guns.FIFY
The old version:
Democrats say regulate everything except abortion.
Republicans say regulate nothing except abortion.
The new version:
Democrats say use populist social media and law suits to cancel people who violate party ideology.
Republicans say use populist social media and law suits to cancel people who violate party ideology.
Unity!
Justice Kavanaugh wouldn't ask questions like that. He's a thoroughgoing anti-abortion White Supremacist Rethuglican. Just ask the Washington Post, and it's commentariat.
Yes. All he wants is to rape with impunity and punish women for having sex.
...after drinking a dozen beers!
Enforcement of laws against libel, slander, and intentional infliction of emotional distress are also outsourced to private actors. Snyder v. Phelps, 562 U.S. 443 (2011) is such an example.
This is consistent with traditional limitations on federal jurisprudence.
Before S.B. 8, we had lawsuits against gun manufacturers, as well as the lawsuits against the Phelpses and the New York Times Co.
Note the use of the inclusive pural "we"
Libel and slander require the party who was wronged to sue, so no, it's not "outsourcing", it's just a standard civil dispute.
You seem to be confused about the difference between having randos sue randos and having someone who is directly wronged suing.
Sigh....The 'Statist Party' (Team R, Team D) has been busily stripping us of our rights for years. Where have you been, Root?
Why not just let this play out?
I think SB-8 (and future incarnations) will have a very different impact than you pre-suppose.
Nice to see Reason using leftist and Planned Parenthood talking points.
Fetal heartbeats begin to be regulated generally at week 17, not week 6. Week 6 is the alarmist language used when discussing how vile the law is. The author discusses feasibility of life which actually is down to around 20 weeks now.
Also the whole constitutional rights of the unique human being seems to need some balance here in the discussion.
But when you're pushing talking points that's all you have.
Link for weeks of heartbeat.
https://www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/fetal-development/fetal-heart-heartbeat-circulatory-system/
Fetal, child, AND adult heartbeats are ALL stopped by gunfire!
So by JesseBahnFuhrer logic, it would be TOTALLY OK to just completely wipe out hundreds of years' worth of legal traditions about "standing to sue", and willy-nilly open the floodgates to "civil" lawsuits by citizens with NO "standing", to go bounty-hunting against gun and ammo manufacturers! NO, thank you, JesseBahnFuhrer!
Youre still fucking drunk sarc?
Wow, what a towering intellectual accomplishment your refutation is! (Did your mommy help you write it?)
Wouldn't that make it easy to hire vigilantes to hunt Republican Coathanger State legislators? (Asking for my friend Bullwinkle)
Yes, PLEASE hire vigilantes to hunt Republican Coathanger State legislators! (Maybe the feds at the fed level will authorize this. Maybe someday... We can always hope! Maybe the Intergalactic Space Aliens Federation will authorize bounty payments for hunting down authoritarians at the fed level!)
Something like that happened in godless Czechoslovakia (and Poland) beginning May 1945. State-countenanced vigilantes hunted down The Accursed Hun as ruthlessly as these Christian National Socialists had hunted down Jyooz and socialists of "the wrong kind". The victims thought it unfair. All they ever did was support
TrumpHitler's Positive Christianity laws!The author discusses feasibility of life which actually is down to around 20 weeks now.
If advanced technology makes viability possible at 2 weeks, would that justify criminalizing abortion after 2 weeks? I don't think so.
The line should be brain activity, just as it is for declaring someone dead at the other end of life.
Gun manufacturers and abortion providers aren't equivalent.
Colt manufactures a product that is inert and then turned over to an individual, who certainly is responsible for how its used.
Abortion providers perform the act themselves.
If you had to contact Colt every time you wanted to pull the trigger then Colt remotely pulled the trigger for you, I'm guessing they'd be held liable for doing so.
Abortion providers are distributing a product that allows someone to perform an abortion themself - abortion providers are pulling the trigger as requested.
"Abortion providers perform the act themselves."
What about "abortion pills", RU-486 etc.? I'm pretty sure the "Texas Bounty Hunters" are authoritarians authorized to micro-manage your mail traffic, prescriptions, (etc.), with regards to this. Same-for-same... Authoritarians will be authoritarians! "Trigger-pulling authorization" micro-management is a red herring!
Abortion pills stop a wriggling tail! The Comstock laws that were decisively overturned by Roe v Wade specifically provided ten years on a chain gang plus fines for such things. Search: "Republicans Banned ALL Birth Control"
*Abortion providers are [not] distributing a product that allows someone to perform an abortion themself - abortion providers are pulling the trigger as requested.
Didn't read. No amount or arrangement of words could ever support the b.s. in the title.
OK, how about a different title...
"Fecklessly, Irresponsibly Enlisting Private Bounty-Hunters to Satisfy the Punishment Boner of the Day, of the Lawmakers, is Dangerous"?
Would that be much better? What would you propose?
Any law that outlaws abortion is a good law. Period. Stop.
Because the law is only intended to outlaw abortions, there's no way this kind of legal gymnastics could be used on things like gun rights.
No way. Can't happen. Not intended, and as we all know intentions equal results. So because this style of law was not intended to be used against gun rights, it will not be used against gun rights.
Because intentions are magic. Just ask any leftist. They'll tell you that bad results are never a result of bad policy, because there is no such thing as bad policy. Policy comes from good intentions, so bad results are caused by something or someone else.
And just like the leftists they hate, conservatives now believe intentions are magic.
Translation: Amerikkka has always been at war with Eurasia and in alliance with Eastasia.
This Texas law was not intended to be used against gun rights so there's no way it will. Intentions are everything. And if you do object to the means by which this law outlaws abortion, you have bad intentions. You hate babies. You're a leftist who murders babies. You're a baby killer. Even if you say you oppose abortion it doesn't matter. Because intentions.
I used to joke about how leftists value intentions over results.
Sadly conservatives have become just like the people they hate.
Except for Ken. He's unusually reasonable. If conservatives had any intellectual honesty they'd be attacking him for attacking their precious abortion law. But they don't so they aren't.
Nobody loves you, sarcasmic.
I assume you were born before RvW. Because there's no way your mother kept you willingly.
You assume a lot of stupid things that demonstrate you have an inability to take in or retain information which is repeatedly provided.
So I got your age wrong. Definitely a religious upbringing.
Cutty sarc is so disliked that his blowup doll is having an affair behind his back.
If you weren't an idiot you would have read Prog Turley and his piece on why gun laws and this law are not the same.
But you like infantile arguments.
Not to worry. "state legislators easily could use the strategy embodied in S.B. 8 to attack other rights" also means that Republican mystical rednecks can legislate bounties to persecute pregnant individuals in other states. The female proportion of the U.S. population is growing. This, therefore, is our opportunity to watch fanatical bigots in every Coathanger State slit their own throats and be replaced by Libertarians. That is, if our original plank "repeal of all laws restricting... voluntary termination of pregnancies during their first hundred days" is restored by LP voters in time to avoid being sucked down with the Gee-Oh-Pee.
which is clearly unconstitutional under the U.S. Supreme Court's precedents
This means nothing and everyone knows it.
Korematsu was once a precedent.
So was Dred Scott, which was according to the Constitution as she was before the 13th Amendment... and some other decisive events.
He was just a clump of cells.
Chumpy Chump is just a chump of cells! Chumpy chowder, chowderheads? Anyone for chumpy chowder? (Some say that chumps-of-cells carry some bad smells, so if you "just say no" to chumpy chowder, I can understand why.)
I often wonder why one can't hire a lawyer to pursue criminal charges against someone, bypassing the D.A. Texas' law shows that there's some flaws in this idea.
Maybe if there was a major league penalty for malicious/negligent prosecutions, such a thing could work.
I've wondered that myself. Especially because cops and D.A.s routinely refuse to press charges let along investigate crimes.
Countless robberies, assaults, break-ins, and murders go completely ignored by law enforcement because they don't like the victims and/or like the assailants.
A justice system that is completely dependent upon the whims of scumbag cops and lowlife prosecutors (I repeat myself, twice) is a system for injustice.
*let alone*
It is difficult to see how the issue of who has standing to bring a case could be improved. Presently there must be some harm shown by an individual to bring a case, and while that leaves the public with no way to challenge unconstitutional laws which have yet to be enforced, I do not see a better alternative.
That said, the S.B. 8 and similar laws have no teeth. The TX law is just a means to get SCOTUS to review again the constitutionality of certain abortion restrictions.
It has no teeth since any attempt by a state to enforce a ruling for such a plaintiff would result in the immediate striking down of such a law on 14th amendment grounds. Moreover, it seems that even the serving of papers to a clinic would constitute a harm and allow a case on the unconstitutionality of S.B. 8 to go forward.
Rather than challenge such a law pre-enforcement, the better strategy seems to be to simply sue a friendly party and then have that party file a case on the unconstitutionality of the law and its enforcement.
What am I missing?
Fear! Fear of endless theatrics in the courtrooms, and paying out the ass, to lawyers! AND possibly also, near-random, unknown outcomes! When laws and precedents and long-standing legal traditions (such as needing "standing" to sue) are willy-nilly cast aside, WHO KNOWS what will happen next!
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2021/10/29/new-study-shows-50-decrease-in-texas-abortions-since-sept-1-not-the-85-predicted-by-providers/
New study shows 50% decrease in Texas abortions since Sept. 1, not the 85% predicted by providers
SB 8, the nation’s most restrictive abortion law, has cut abortions in Texas by 50%
Also fear of ex-post-facto law enforcement. Like the Great Leap Forward in China, EVERYTHING old is cast out, and NO ONE KNOWS what the new Emperor-by-Another-Name will decree next!
https://atisang.com/blog/Persian-Newsletter/P310-Property-stons-building.html
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cabinet-stone
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https://atisang.com/article/slab/
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https://atisang.com/blog/Persian-Newsletter/P316-Select-stone-suitable-for-flooring-building.html
Squirrel, got another sock for spamming?
Whoa, Dear Jesus, yes! Do they not know that we have a "mute" button?!?! (You have to forgive me for my "multiple personality disorder". It's not my fault! It's NEVER my fault!)
What most of you fail to realize is that Roe, however suspect it may be with respect to constitutional law, was an eminently libertarian decision.
It says that women are trusted to make their own ethical decisions about their own bodies without government interference, before fetal viability. Since a quarter of women get abortions at some point, it is obvious that it's not a settled human moral truth that abortion is evil murder, and thus government probably shouldn't stick its nose into the matter.
If instead you want government to consider a quarter of all women as capital criminals, you're not longer a libertarian, you're a theocratic tyrant. And what's most important is that we get our labels right.
This is concerning the definition of murder. You cannot argue that murder is outside the purview of justice.
Secondly, while I might like Roe as policy, as law, it's hash. I will be honest that I still do not understand the reasoning because it doesn't make sense. In fact, it seems quite clear to me that the logic applies equally to gay conversion therapy, genital mutilation, and lobotomies. Obviously, the government can limit what medical procedures can be done if they are considered dangerous or deadly.
You also cannot argue that Republicans hate women. A woman is more than her uterus. Stop being hateful and reductionistic.
There's nothing anti-libertarian about prosecuting murderers.
Now do vaccines
I suppose states could allow "any person" to sue "any person" who facilitates financial civil penalties against "any person" practicing their constitutional rights. The gist being that legislators who create such laws would be personally liable for the bounty and legal fees.
S.B. 8 has a clear difference from previous attempts by state legislatures to generate cases in the hopes that SCOTUS would eventually overturn Roe.
One thing that some might claim is not so bad about the SCOTUS not blocking enforcement of the law is that defendants will still have prior court precedents on their side and any lawsuits filed against them should then be dismissed immediately. But that doesn't account for how S.B. 8 explicitly forbids defendants from collecting any legal fees from plaintiffs that shouldn't be allowed to bring these suits at all. That is the worst part of this scheme, in my opinion. It is clearly meant to harass people into compliance, since that would require defending against every suit, even if abortion rights themselves remain untouched by the Supreme Court.
The thing is that there's no particular reason to expect that SB8 would actually work in shielding the law from post-enforcement actions. True, it has clauses that purport to do so. Both the state supreme court and the federal Court are capable of finding those clauses unconstitutional.
Now, the SB8 scheme might work a bit better against 2nd amendment rights, just because the courts are more solicitous about the fake rights they create, than the real ones actually ratified into the Constitution, and the 2nd amendment is at best about a 3rd class right so far as the judiciary are concerned.
But I expect that SB8 will fare badly in post-enforcement review.
Call abortion rights "fake rights" if you want. Argue against the reasoning of the majority opinions in Roe and Casey. But as soon as you talk about "real" rights "actually ratified into the Constitution," you are doing something that the Constitution explicitly tells you NOT to do.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
What part of that is not clear? Any argument that would say that a right doesn't exist because the Constitution doesn't mention it or that even places ones that are mentioned above ones that aren't is completely invalid. If trying to figure out whether something is a constitutionally protected right or not seems too difficult or is too easily subjected to the whims of judges, that is just too damn bad. The 9th Amendment doesn't give you the option to "deny or disparage" a right not mentioned in the constitution for only that reason.
"But as soon as you talk about "real" rights "actually ratified into the Constitution," you are doing something that the Constitution explicitly tells you NOT to do."
The Constitution explicitly states that the fact a right isn't mentioned in the Constitution doesn't establish that it isn't a right.
But it certainly doesn't establish that it IS a right.
Abortion is both unmentioned by the Constitution AND a fake right.
Unlike, for instance, the right to pursue a livelihood, which would be an unmentioned by the Constitution real right.
The Constitution explicitly states that the fact a right isn't mentioned in the Constitution doesn't establish that it isn't a right.
But it certainly doesn't establish that it IS a right.
And nothing I said contradicts that. I certainly agree with it. I am only saying that the hard work of figuring out whether someone's claim that they have a right has to be done. I am only saying that this hard work cannot be dodged by saying that the claimed right isn't in the Constitution or is somehow less valid than rights that are enumerated.
Abortion is both unmentioned by the Constitution AND a fake right.
Unlike, for instance, the right to pursue a livelihood, which would be an unmentioned by the Constitution real right.
In what way is the right to pursue a livelihood threatened by government action? Sure, there are questions about how far government goes with occupational licensing and similar regulations, but government also clearly has clear powers and a need to regulate commerce. People can't pursue a livelihood without restriction at all. Government can certainly regulate products that people might try and sell that would be deceptive or dangerous (think snake oil) and regulate the safety of services provided. Most of those questions are about the quality of the policy, not rights.
Parental rights are also completely unmentioned by the Constitution. I would maintain that people have a fundamental right to resolve their own medical situations and direct their care. Since all rights have limits in the face of enumerated powers of the federal government and powers of general government reserved for the states, that right is not unlimited. So, again, the hard work of figuring out whether abortion is a right and, if so, what limits government can impose upon it, has to be done, rather than just simply waved away with a bare statement that it is a "fake" right.
True, it has clauses that purport to do so. Both the state supreme court and the federal Court are capable of finding those clauses unconstitutional.
What would be unconstitutional about those provisions? Maybe they could argue that it denies due process to force someone to bear the burden of defending against lawsuits that simply can't win without there being a way to recover those costs from plaintiffs and otherwise deter that kind of legal harassment, but I don't know anything about whether that kind of argument would get anywhere.
Let's wait and see how the state law fares in the state courts. I expect not too well.
Yet again, a rousing joint meeting of
Libertarians For Statist Womb Management
and
Libertarians For Big-Government Micromanagement Of Ladyparts Clinics
is convened at reason.com.
Right-wingers masquerading in unconvincing libertarian drag are among my favorite culture war casualties. Better Americans can't replace these faux libertarian clingers fast enough.
If "R"-Party Government Almighty won't micro-manage your lady-parts... WHO will, fer Chrissakes?!?!? (Who can even IMAGINE the "D" or "L" parties stepping up to the plate here?)
No different than:
Woke left-wingers masquerading in unconvincing libertarian drag are among my favorite culture war casualties.
I have been on this site a long time. There used to be libertarians here with some interesting discussions With the end of liberal sites and Yahoo even allowing comments at all, now all is see it liberal trolls and frustrated conservatives, and pretty much idiot partisan article writers. ( I can't call them journalist)
Example:
Trump "lies"
Biden Says "Things That Aren't True" (you can read that article right here.
but you see, a lie and a thing that aren't true are the same thing. Both are lies.
Reason writers used to have some libertarian standards, that is no longer true.
At least conservative sites let you post comments, there are almost no liberal sites that do, and of the few that do if you disagree once, you are banned.
"At least conservative sites let you post comments..."
Oh really?
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/parler-app-ban-free-speech-trump-b1721710.html
PARLER: ‘FREE SPEECH’ APP POPULAR WITH FAR-RIGHT FIGURES BANS PEOPLE FOR SPEAKING FREELY, USERS CLAIM
Damon
Thank you for being considerate of you readers, and identifying your essay was presumptious nonsense, not worthy of reading.
"Texas' 6-Week Abortion Ban Threatens Every Constitutional Right"
Tell me, at what point in a persons' evolution are they imbued with the right, not to have their brains sucked out?
You have that right, I have the right, when did we ;get; this right, or have we always had this 'right'?
My liberty, to swing my fist, stops where your nose begins; where does your nose begin?
IMO that, peron wh professe to be a libertarian, but his 'pro choice, is neither.
To REALLY understand abortion, you have to have the best ANALOGY! Abortion is like this:
You’re drunk off of your bleeding ass, driving down the road and shit, minding your own business and shit. Maybe you shouldn’t have dropped that acid, either, but the cops haven’t caught you, and, innocent till proven guilty, right? So you keep on driving… Your drunken ass is bleeding and shit, by the way, ‘cause you’ve got some wicked hemorrhoids, and shit!
Then some space aliens swoop in on your car, and abduct you, and shit. They start anally probing you. For some strange reason, the little green men have a conscience attack, they start worrying about fucking up your health, and shit, what with your giant bleeding hemorrhoids. So they cease and desist, yank their probes out of your ass, and probe your nose instead, and shit. They don’t even bother to clean the bloody shit off of the probes, and shit!
But then a mucus vampire circles around you and swoops in like a vulture!
See, a mucus vampire, well, they’ve got some sort of magical nose for this kind of thing, and somehow he catches on to what’s going down, and he wants to suck your mucus, and shit. So he shows up, to get in on the action.
But when the mucus vampire sees all your blood and shit mixed up with your mucus and shit, he gets all disgusted and shit. The blood, he can handle… Some of his best friends are blood vampires. He’s a tolerant and broad-minded vampire, and shit, you know. But REAL shit, in his mucus??! Now THAT is TOO MUCH shit, and shit!
So he says, “Dudes, getting blood and shit into your mucus and shit, that’s like getting chocolate into your peanut butter and jelly and shit! That’s like getting your stupid and your evil all mixed up into your philosophy! This is some seriously fucked up bloody-snot shit! I’m outta here!” And the mucus vampire is SOOO sickened, he barfs all over you! Then he wraps his cloak around him like Batman folding up his bat-wings around himself, turns into a bat-shit crazy bat, and shit, and flies away, all disgusted.
The little green men, being kinda autistic, take everything literally. They are also HORNY little green men, already excited by anally and nasally probing you, and, upon hearing the mucus vampire talking about “…seriously fucked up bloody-snot shit…”, get all carried away, and shoot their little-green-men jism all over your bloody-snot shit!
Now if we sit back and think about this, your shit bacteria get all fucked up, ‘cause they were expecting a decent burial in your toilet, and they don’t get one. Your nasal bacteria and viruses were expecting to LIVE, or, at least, a traditional, honorable drying-out session in your booger rag, and they don’t get that, either. Your little green men sperm cells get REALLY screwed over, ‘cause they were expecting at least SOME long odds (but a real fighting chance) at some little green woman’s egg cell. Your red blood cells don’t matter, ‘cause they have no cell nucleus, let alone a nervous system, or any kind of independent life. Your white blood cells? Well, yes, they have a nucleus, and their own genes. But they’re WHITE, dammit! You CRAZY cracker muthafuckers!!! WHITE means you’re a RACIST, and WHO CARES about the rights of racist honkeys?!?!
Ergo, we must conclude, this whole thing is an abortion all around! Since abortions are, by definition, abortions, they need to be outlawed!
It's just that perhaps the government shouldn't be imposing your moral worldview on everyone else when a majority of everyone else doesn't share your moral worldview.
I would alter what you said, Tony, by not qualifying it with "a majority of everyone else" that doesn't share a particular moral worldview.
When does a person have the right to not have their brains sucked out? Well, certainly no earlier than the point at which they have a brain.
You can argue that a late-term fetus is a person who has that right.
You can't argue that a one-day old fertilized egg that has no internal organs whatsoever has that right.
"You can't argue that a one-day old fertilized egg that has no internal organs whatsoever has that right."
You can argue that way, as some folks seem to do. Expecting any sensible person to take you seriously? THAT is WAAAAY too much!
Life begins when cells divide.
Personhood is ultimately determined by intelligence.
A pig is not a person. A fetus is less intelligent than a pig. Therefore, a fetus is not a person.
A fetus might or might not develop into a person later on down the line, but that's irrelevant.
On top of that, women have the right to control their own bodies. Which means that they have the right NOT to be pregnant, NOT to be forced to carry a fetus to term.
Progs have no intelligence. Not persons.
"women have the right to control their own bodies. Which means that they have the right NOT to be pregnant"
And that's the bottom line. The "personhood" of the fetus is literally academic.
In this day and age do we all have the right to control our own bodies? Is that your bottom line or is it really only applicable to abortion.
Yes, we have that right. Is it always respected? No.
Life begins when cells divide. That's what science says.
So, a cell isn't alive until it divides?
PS. Every cell of a woman's body has her unique DNA sequence; a fetus is not her body. And pregnancy is a natural biological process; saying that women are "forced" to carry a fetus is like saying that people are forced to grow fingernails... it's absurd on its face.
"Every cell of a woman's body has her unique DNA sequence"
Not true. Only about one in ten cells in a human body have human DNA.
Not a lawyer, so count me among the confused. As near I can tell, the upshot of S.B. 8 is that the law cannot be brought to the court before someone actually brings it. They would have to actually wait for a suit before challenging it.
See, there's the problem, that's how we thought the law worked in the first place.
If California were to pass a law saying that anyone possessing a gun must be thrown in jail, it can still be challenged on Second Amendment grounds before anyone is arrested.
The Texas loophole for abortion, which California is copying for banning "assault weapons", is saying, "Yeah, it may be unconstitutional, but we're outsourcing enforcement to private citizens, so you can't sue us!"
"The Texas loophole for abortion, which California is copying for banning "assault weapons", is saying, "Yeah, it may be unconstitutional, but we're outsourcing enforcement to private citizens, so you can't sue us!""
You can't enjoin them, but when somebody sues, THAT is in court, at which time the courts are perfectly capable of ruling that SB8 is unconstitutional, including its provisions presuming to bar application of precedent.
Governance by radicalized, anti-Liberty collectivist scumbags like U.S. Democrats under Traitor Joe Biden threatens all our rights as Individuals.
Is this satire? Abortion is an invented right by the court. Thus it can be un-invented by the same path.
The Supreme Court can reverse Roe v. Wade.
Until that point, state governments shouldn't be able to ignore Roe, just like they shouldn't be able to ignore Heller.
I wasn't aware that murder was a constitutional right.
Classic example of "begging the question".
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/begging-the-question
So the left and the right have this so messed up. Constitutionally the question is when is a person a person. It is obvious the answer is NOT at birth ( there are laws about people who kill a child In Utero and obtain the same as if the child had been born.
Abortion is a problem because there is not simply ONE PERSON involved. Pregnancy creates a second human life. It is currently the only ay humans can reproduce.
The question then becomes - Where is the line?
I said before the left and the right have this completely backwards. The right - tends to be - more religious. Meaning they believe that there is life after death and that God in a sense will sort all this kind of thing out. HOWEVER they are actually the ones saying - don't kill the fetus/child.
The left - by in larger part - does not believe in life after death/religion ( some do of course ). Meaning this life is it. Nothing there after. Death is a permanent state of being.
So here in is the ridiculousness. The left is all to willing to ignore the chance that a fetus/baby is alive and kill it. The right - even though they know/believe that the child will continue in some form - wants it to stay alive.
In this regard, I have to side with the right. Since I cannot KNOW that said child is not 'alive' and it is in the process of developing what right do I have to let someone harm it? I do not know the moment that it is 'alive' or 'conscious' so how dare I presume to enact bodily harm on it.
Again - seriously the positions of the left and the right are so damn reversed from what they should be I find it hilarious.
When it doubt side with developing life.
Is 6 weeks too early? Maybe. Maybe it is nothing more than a cluster of cells at that point. But there is some point during pregnancy that it moves to a place that I am highly suspect of challenging its right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.