Anthony Fauci Is Right To Distinguish COVID-19 Infections, Which Are Exploding, From Severe Disease, Which Is Not

Based on the experience in South Africa, the Biden administration's top medical adviser says "this thing will peak after a period of a few weeks and turn around."


While "we are definitely in the middle of a very severe surge" in COVID-19 infections, President Joe Biden's chief medical adviser said yesterday, "we have not seen a concomitant increase" in hospitalizations. Recent numbers show "almost a vertical increase" in newly identified cases, Anthony Fauci noted on ABC's This Week. But as "infections become less severe," he said, "it is much more relevant to focus on the hospitalizations as opposed to the total number of cases."

Fauci is surely right that focusing on case numbers rather than severe disease is more misleading than ever. But while hospitalizations are a better indicator of severe disease, those numbers also can be misleading, because they include relatively mild cases and people who tested positive for the coronavirus after they were admitted for different reasons.

The evidence so far, including data from the U.K. published last Friday, indicates that the omicron variant, which accounts for an estimated 59 percent of current COVID-19 cases in the U.S., is more contagious but less lethal than the delta variant. And while there is ample reason to worry that the sheer number of COVID-19 cases will overwhelm hospitals, the current situation is far less dire than what we saw last winter.

According to the New York Times database, the seven-day average of newly identified cases in the United States tripled during the last two weeks. Those data surely understate the actual number of infections, since results from rapid home tests are not necessarily reported and (as usual) many people with mild or no symptoms do not get tested at all. But during the same period that reported cases rose by 204 percent, hospitalizations rose by just 35 percent, and deaths declined by 3 percent. The latter development is especially striking because the current surge in U.S. cases began about a month ago.

The seven-day average of daily new cases, according to the Times, was more than 400,000 as of yesterday, which is 61 percent higher than the peak during last winter's surge. Yet the seven-day average of daily deaths was less than 1,300, compared to 2,600 a year before and more than 3,300 in mid-January 2021. The seven-day average for hospitalizations was about 93,000, compared to about 131,000 a year before and about 138,000 on January 10, 2021.

It is not clear how many of those hospitalizations involved incidental or mild infections, as opposed to life-threatening symptoms. But according to a study of patients admitted to V.A. hospitals from March 1, 2020, to June 30, 2021, the share of admissions involving moderate-to-severe COVID-19 cases fell from 64 percent before vaccines were widely available to 52 percent afterward.

"Routine inpatient screening, common or mandated in many facilities, may identify incidental cases," the researchers noted. "If hospitalizations are used as a metric for policy decision-making, patients hospitalized for the management of COVID-19 disease should be distinguished from patients who are hospitalized and incidentally found to be infected with SARS-CoV-2."

Chris Hopson, CEO of NHS Providers, which represents British health care workers, made a similar point in a Twitter thread last week. Here is how he summarized his conversations with the heads of the trusts that oversee British hospitals: "What's very interesting is how many are talking about [the] number of asymptomatic patients being admitted to hospital for other reasons and then testing positive for Covid. Some are describing this as 'incidental Covid.'" Hopson wrote that hospitals are "not, at [the] moment, reporting large numbers of patients with severe Covid type respiratory problems needing critical care."

Studies of pediatric admissions also have found that mild or incidental cases accounted for a large share of so-called COVID-19 hospitalizations. In one study, two-fifths of admissions to a California children's hospital from May 10, 2020, to February 10, 2021, involved patients who were asymptomatic. One-fifth involved "severe" or "critical" cases.

In another study, 40 percent of COVID-positive pediatric patients admitted in the period from May 1, 2020, to September 30, 2020, had "incidental infection," 47 percent were "potentially symptomatic," and the rest were "significantly symptomatic." In this age group, the researchers reported, "most hospitalized patients who test positive for SARS-CoV-2 are asymptomatic or have a reason for hospitalization other than coronavirus disease 2019."

While pediatric admissions are rising during the current surge, the Times reported last week, "doctors and researchers said they were not seeing evidence that Omicron was more threatening to children." To the contrary, "preliminary data suggests that compared with the Delta variant, Omicron appears to be causing milder illness in children, similar to early findings for adults."

Those early findings include studies from South Africa and Scotland that found omicron was less likely than other variants to cause life-threatening symptoms. Between October 1 and December 6, according to the South African study, COVID-19 patients infected by omicron were 80 percent less likely to be hospitalized than patients infected by other variants. The same study found that patients infected by the omicron variant who were admitted to hospitals this fall were 70 percent less likely to develop severe disease than patients infected by the delta variant who were hospitalized between April and November. According to the Scottish study, "Omicron is associated with a two-thirds reduction in the risk of COVID-19 hospitalisation when compared to Delta."

A report that the U.K. Health Security Agency released on Friday reinforces those findings. According to a study of hospital patients, "the risk of presentation to emergency care or hospital admission with Omicron was approximately half of that for Delta," and "the risk of hospital admission from emergency departments with Omicron was approximately one-third of that for Delta."

That study also found that the risk of hospitalization was 81 percent lower among omicron patients who had received three vaccine doses than it was among unvaccinated omicron patients. A second study looked at symptomatic cases diagnosed in the community. While it confirmed that vaccination was less effective at preventing symptomatic infection by omicron than it was at preventing symptomatic infection by delta, omicron patients who had received three doses were still 68 percent less likely to be hospitalized than unvaccinated omicron patients.

Data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) indicate that severe cases as a share of "COVID-19-associated hospital admissions" peaked in the spring of 2020. That March, about 38 percent of patients required intensive care and 27 percent needed mechanical ventilation. In-hospital fatalities peaked that April, when 17 percent of admitted COVID-19 patients died. As of September, the most recent month for which the CDC is reporting detailed data, 21 percent of hospitalized COVID-19 patients received intensive care, 11 percent received mechanical ventilation, and 12 percent died in the hospital. Now that omicron is displacing delta and most of the population has been vaccinated and/or acquired some protection as a result of prior infection, the downward trend in severe outcomes as a percentage of admissions is likely to continue.

Even so, the explosion in cases is overwhelming some health care systems, which threatens treatment not only for COVID-19 but also for other potentially deadly medical conditions. Hospitalizations are still rising, which will cause serious problems during the next few weeks. "You're still going to get a lot of people that are going to be needing hospitalization," Fauci noted on This Week. "And that's the reason why we're concerned about stressing and straining the hospital system."

But as Fauci also noted, it seems likely that "this thing will peak after a period of a few weeks and turn around." That is what happened in South Africa, where the omicron variant was first identified in November. The seven-day average of daily new cases in South Africa exploded from mid-November to December 18 but has fallen sharply since then. "They had a major surge," Fauci noted, "but as quickly as the surge went up, it turned around." And as in the United States and the U.K., the increase in deaths, which even at their peak remained far below the numbers reported last January, was much smaller than the increase in cases.

"The emerging evidence suggests that Omicron really is milder than earlier versions of this coronavirus (either because of intrinsic biological reasons or because of higher levels of population immunity)," David Leonhardt and Ashley Wu write in the Times. "In South Africa and England, as well as New York, San Francisco and other parts of the U.S., hospitalization numbers are lower than doctors had feared."

Leonhardt and Wu suggest that "when the current surge begins receding, it will likely have left a couple of silver linings." They note that omicron's high transmissibility will increase natural immunity. Research in South Africa suggests that omicron infection dramatically boosts resistance to delta, which is especially good news because it seems the latter variant is more likely to cause severe disease. Omicron "has also helped focus Americans on the importance of booster shots, further increasing immunity," Leonhardt and Wu say. They add that new COVID-19 treatments from Pfizer and Merck "lower the risk of hospitalization and death" by as much as 90 percent.

In short, Leonhardt and Wu say, "the U.S. could emerge from the Omicron wave significantly closer to the only plausible long-term future for Covid—one in which it becomes an endemic disease and a more normal part of daily life." While "it will still cause illness and death," COVID-19 as an endemic disease "does not need to dominate life the way a pandemic does," they note. "If the U.S. reaches that point in 2022—as appears likely—the next New Year will feel a lot more satisfying than this one."

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364 responses to “Anthony Fauci Is Right To Distinguish COVID-19 Infections, Which Are Exploding, From Severe Disease, Which Is Not

  1. If you criticize Fauci, you criticize science, so sayeth the Pope of Sciencetology.

    1. It is a good thing Sullum loves Fauci cock.

      1. Did Sullum have a nativity scene at his house for Christmas? One with the baby Fauci in the manger.

        1. Be sure to swaddle the face.

          1. Faucis screwing us like a Priest on a Choir Boy...

            Family Guys on !

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        2. "Make Democrats Extinct" has a nativity scene at his house for Trumpsmas! The Trumpsmas Season is NOT yet beyond or grasp! So long as we and ALL of the True Trumplings have tentacles to clasp together, we will cling to Trumpsmas till our very last gasp! Grasp, clasp, gasp, now, Trumplings! It COULD be our our last blast!

          A Trumpsmas Message of Hope, Peace, and Joy

          In these times of divisive troubles, we all need a little unifying Lift, yes? So I present to you, a Timeless, Empowering Story of Trumpsmas Joy!

          And it came to pass, that The Lord Trump descended from the penthouse of The Trump Hotel at Mar-a-Lago. He ascended the flag-draped speaker’s podium, and had an acolyte apply some touch-up bronzer. He ascended the Mount of Olives, and of Pineapples, and of Anchovies. Then He spake unto the assembled mass of 5 million:

          “I come unto ye to bring messages of Joy and Peace! Do NOT be confused by the lamestream media, nor by the Demon-rats, who speak of many strange wonders! They speak of many YUUGE lies, and of half-truths! Some say that I am the Son of God! Some say that I am the Son of Man! Some say that I am the Great White Father! Or the Great Pumpkin! Or the Great Whitish-Orangish Pumpkin-Father! But I am none of those things! I come to be before you, as an Humble Man, with MUCH bigness to my humbleness… You may simply call me the Chosen One! Even the lamestream media knows this! The American voters, the REAL, legitimate voters… The NON-Demon-rat ones, have overwhelmingly chosen MEEE! THAT is why I am the Chosen One!”

          He paused, momentarily, there on the top of the Mount of Olives, and of Pineapples, and of Anchovies, as thunderous applause deafened everyone for miles around. He tried to wave down the crowd, for silence. But in their jubilation, the crowd spontaneously broke out into a chant! “Dominos Pizza-Pie REEEquiem, Dominos Pizza-Pie REEEquiem, Dominos Pizza-Pie REEEquiem”, they chanted, over and over, and yet over, again! Sensing their spiritual and bodily hungers, The Lord Trump discreetly ordered a single, solitary pizza and a basket full of anchovies, which arrived nearly instantly. Then The Lord Trump broke off pieces of pizza, and dished out the anchovies, which somehow managed to feed the crowd of five million!

          With their hunger now sated, The Lord Trump was finally able to calm the masses, and silence their cheering, so that He could, once again, be heard. The Lord Trump spake once again, saying unto them, “Behold, now begins a time of troubles! The Dark Lord has bin bidin’ his time, which has now come! I will be swallowed up by the Penthouse of The Trump Hotel at Mar-a-Lago, for 4 years of dark nights and troubled days, and I know, you will miss Me terribly! But then the Boulder of Voter Fraud will mysteriously be shoved aside, and I will emerge once more! Trust bigly in Me, but bigly JUST in Me!!!”

          The Lord Trump waited for a long time, for the applause to die down, and then continued, “While I am gone, the Faithful shall honor Me on the last Thursday of each November, giving Thanks that I have shown Good Americans The Truth and The Way. You shall slay the Great Pumpkin, and eat of the Pumpkin Pie, saying, ‘This is the Body of The Lord Trump. Eat it with Joy and Gladness’. Then ye shall drink of the cranberry juice, saying. ‘This is the Blood of The Lord Trump. Drink it with Anticipation of the Defeat of the Forces of Evil, and of the Demon-rats’. This, do in honor of MEEE!”

          The applause was overwhelming and unstoppable, so The Lord Trump escaped in His Helicopter, to the Penthouse of The Trump Hotel at Mar-a-Lago, leaving the crowd to festering in the gathering stormy weather. There were no busses provided for the crowds, but that was OK by them, for they were full of Great Trumpsmas Joy!

    2. Fauci belongs in jail.

      1. Only until the hanging.

        1. Sacrilege!

          Here at Reason, executions are completed by woodchipping!

    3. So, the virus is mutating to less virulent forms just like every other virus does. Honestly from the start it's all about political "scientists" afraid of losing public confidence. Hence the overreaction on methods that were not effective (masks and social distancing). Focus on a "magic bullet" (vaccines) and then find a scapegoat all while denying any responsibility for screwing up despite spending billions annually to make sure this doesn't occur. Sort of like the Bush admin after 911..had to find a distraction.

      What is sickening is Reason writers getting on their knees for these elites who honestly have the blood of hundreds of thousands on their hands. Science isnt final for biology..even for physics it can change. And for a virus (which likely was developed in a lab) you have to admit you don't have the answers at the start and approach it from a broad base (identify as risk populations and help them isolate, find therapeutics and make them readily available, develop vaccines and also given the very low fatality rate for most folks do NOT lock the country down. Fear Porn pushed by political scientists backed by "the media" including Reason was counterproductive.

      Reason is such a joke..and what is the financial relationship with the Volokh site and Reason? Is Reason being paid to host? We really should know

      1. Complicit, not a joke.

        Jokes start with " someone walks into a bar..."

        1. Sounds like sarc, except that he doesn't have to walk into a bar, he gets drunk where ever he is. And sarc is always a joke, a bad one, but always a joke.

          1. and not ..." getting ass pounded by some guy..."

      2. They didn't screw up, and they're not afraid of losing credibility.
        This was all very intentional, and they're rubbing it in your face because they can.
        Because there will be no consequences for them.
        You are nothing, and nothing is no concern to them.

      3. A magazine with a real science writer would analyze hospitalizations and deaths that should be attributable from the false positive rate alone, and see if it exceeds the reported hospitalizations and deaths.

        Oh yeah, the magazine would also have to honest and not just controlled opposition.

        We're just completely out of luck on both scores at Reason.

  2. After 2 years and with him already backtracking on updated guidance due to political pressure?

    1. Broken Clocks, amiright?!!??

      1. Only about the broken part.
        I wouldn't believe him if he said the sun rose in the east.

      2. It should be highlighted greatly in the article. It shows the cdc acting politically. Which means their scientific arguments are secondary.

        1. It means they have no scientific arguments.
          They have fully gone over to the dark side.

        2. The notion that any of this was based in science should have been set aside once and for all when the government actively encouraged people to protest, while insisting that the concomitant lack of masks, vaccinations, and absence of social distancing did not matter in the slightest provided the protests were about racial justice/police brutality/anti-Trump.

          By June 2020, it was abundantly clear that the entire pandemic had morphed from a good faith exercise of caution in the face of uncertainty to bad faith political manipulation by power drunk autocrats in an election year.

          1. There still is a certain type (older middle aged mostly female progs) who seem to get a thrill each time they hear about a new variant and surge in cases, hoping we will all be ordered back into lockdown and mask mandates. They must be rather disappointed

            1. They just want to sit home in their pajamas and "work." I don't blame them. It is much easier to work from home than it is to get on the subway and mingle with all the undesirable "diversity" that you pretend to love on the way to a cramped office in some piss covered building in the middle of Manhattan.

            2. The bag in box brigade.

            3. I know someone who was excited by the notion that masks, distancing and lockdowns would be the ‘new normal’. She’s completely in the tanks for the progs on everything. And this was back in April 2020.

            4. Yes...we have some friends who are in their late 50's..white Karen types who worshiped Cuomo and thought this was the most exciting thing to ever happen to them. They could "work" remote (two are teachers), order grub hub, watch netflix and wax on about the horrible "republicans" and get off on Andrew Cuomo's daily engagement of narcissism.

          2. the government actively encouraged people to protest

            Who did this? Maybe like the mayor of some town did. Did Fauci or the CDC "actively encourage people to protest"?

            1. Yes, they actually did.

              1. You can point to this?

                1. Suddenly, Public Health Officials Say Social Justice Matters More Than Social Distance


                  1. Funny, Chemjeff has nothing to say after you provide a cite. But just in case he is still on the fence:


                    That thread has contradictory messages from actual government officials, including Governors Cuomo, Whitmer, and Murphy.

                    But what is amazing is that I called this out to Chemjeff and White Mike almost a year ago- that this specific event ruined the government's reputation with Conservatives. And yet they still insist that it was some sort of conservative temper tantrum that has led to this divide, not the Liberal *leaders* who vilified protestors as grandma killers one week, then insisted protest was noble a mere two weeks later.

                    1. Unless those tweets have been confirmed by Dr. Joe Rogan I don’t want to hear it.

                    2. Overt, first, that Twitter thread does not have anyone from the government "actively encouraging people to protest".

                      Second, the protests against lockdowns were happening BEFORE George Floyd was murdered. The armed rally at the Michigan state capitol happened on June 1, a full month before Floyd's murder. So your cause and effect is mixed up here.

                      And, once again Overt, you are proving my rule of right-wing commenters that IT'S ALWAYS TEAM BLUE'S FAULT. *Even if* Republicans thought the lockdown promoters were complete hypocrites on the matter, THEY STILL possessed the agency to make decisions for themselves on what to do. Democrats didn't make them reject masks and vaccines. They chose to do so on their own, and then chose to blame Democrats for their own decisions.

                      What happened to taking responsibility for one's own actions? More and more I see Republicans acting like children, having temper tantrums and then saying "but Democrats made me do it!" It's embarrassing frankly.

                  2. None of your examples are of THE GOVERNMENT "actively encouraging people to protest".

                    1. God, you are just insufferable. Fauci was specifically asked if protesting was a bad idea and he choose to decline to answer. So, maybe not promoting, but definitely not warning against like he was doing for everything else. Moreover, many leftist politicians advocated for it and joined the protests.

                      I know you are geared to always argue against the right, which is ironic considering your hatred of right leaning cognitive dissonance. But just being a congnitively dissonant leftist ain't the answer. It's just doing what you claim to dislike in the reverse.

                    2. Look, GG made a specific claim. That claim is false. I can't read his mind, I don't know what he "really meant". I agree that a lot of them acted like hypocrites. But being a hypocrite is different then "actively encouraging".

                      And arguing against false right-wing claims is not synonymous with arguing in favor of left-wing claims. You are better than that.

                    3. Whitmer participated in the protests you dishonest fuck.

                    4. Chemjeff is cancer, and must be dealt with as such

                    5. Yeah they are. Youre just a mendacious cunt.


                      Now the dumb cunt in that article I'm sure thinks just like the dumb cunt in your head. The brilliance of your stupid cunt logic.

                      "According to the post, Pressley, D-Mass., said of the Black Lives Matter protests that "there needs to be unrest in the streets."
                      Pressley did call for "unrest in the streets" in an Aug. 15 interview with Tiffany Cross on MSNBC’s "AM Joy" show."

                      Cunty Harris
                      " The quote attributed to Harris, that "protesters should not let up," is legitimate" but since it's politifact and they need to rationalize to maintain there narrative just like you they added this... "but she didn’t say she wanted riots to continue."

                      ""This is a movement, I’m telling you, they’re not going to stop, and everyone beware, because they’re not going to stop before Election Day in November, and they’re not going to stop after Election Day," she said. "And everyone should take note of that, on both levels, that they’re not going to let up, and they should not, and we should not." "

                      Even politifact acknowledged they endorsed riots and they could barely rationalize it.

                      Then we can add on pelosi, Maxine waters, the squad etc and all their inflammatory rhetoric about fighting Republicans and not letting certain Republican politicians have peace in the lead up to the riots. Then we had a Bernie supporter try and murder a bunch of Republicans at a baseball game.

                    6. Sure, Cuomo, Whitmer and Murphy weren't "The Government", despite being- you know, the executive leaders of their governments and the ones literally responsible for lockdowns in their states. You have to be kidding me, Jeff. You will excuse anything the left does.

            2. Maybe not the government, but doctors definitely encouraged people to protest.

        3. They have ALWAYS been acting politically. Remember how it was okay for the vaccinated to take off their masks, because people were wondering why they would get vaccinated if they still had to wear masks. So the CDC backed off for a couple months, then muzzled everybody again to remind them to be scared.

          1. That is inconsistent, but why is it “political”?

            1. Dummy

            2. See the NEA collaboration. See Fauci walking back week old guidance after politicial push back this week.

              First though get governments cock out of your mouth.

            3. Just because youre too retarded to understand something doesn't mean you have to ask dumbass questions.

              He literally explains it was political because "no longer needing a mask post vaccination" wasn't "science", it was a a coercion tactic designed to get the population to comply with government vaccine mandates. And it was quickly taken away when the government realized it wasn't increasing vaccine uptake.

              And that was always the point. Achieving the POLITICAL GOAL of increasing Vax uptake rates. Not following the science.

              1. Thank you.

  3. Anthony Fauci Is Right

    Give him 5 minutes.

    1. I’m just glad reason isn’t still all in on fear porn.

      1. “Is” all in.

    2. One of the things that we hope for, George, is that this thing will peak after a period of a few weeks and turn around.

      The actual quote from the article. Fauci would never make a plain statement that can be proven or disproved, the little shitweasel always leaves himself an out where he can claim he wasn't wrong. So the question is: why did Sullum curtail the quote to make it sound like Fauci was saying something he wasn't?

      1. Because Sullum is also a shitweasel ...

        1. Who has a soft spot for bad movies like "Cuties"...

          1. Aka he's a pedophile

      2. I'm beginning to think that Fauci may not be particularly honorable.

        1. That's charitable. I was beginning to think he's literally Satan.

          1. Let's not be so quick to disparage Satan by comparing him to Fauci.

  4. Remember double-masking? Remember when that was the #1 dance craze in America? I do. Notice how no one in that picture is double masking?

    The fact that Fauci is suddenly turning on a dime here and trying to be 'rational' about cases, hospitalization data etc. tells you everything you need to know. They've got a new directive and that is "the pandemic must end-- no one has a stomach for more lockdowns and it makes us look like the liars that we are... find a way out of it."

    Remember when it was a conspiracy theory that we would find our way out of COVID by merely changing the accounting methods?

    1. I am still of the opinion that if 2020 was not an election year, and the media had not ratcheted up the panic to apocalyptic proportions (in service of a political agenda), nobody would have noticed a thing, the same way nobody notices hundreds of thousands of people dying over the years from seasonal flu.

      1. About 36,000 Americans die of the flu per year. It's been less than 2 years and 824,000 Americans have died of COVID. So you are literally off by an order of magnitude. I think people would have, at minimum, noticed when they tried to go to the hospital and were told that there was no room because of all the beds were occupied by people who were dying of respiratory failure.

        And that was with social distancing and lockdowns for 1 year, and a vaccine early in the second. Without them it probably would have been far worse. If, as people often quote, COVID has a 99%-99.5% mortality rate, that means that under business as usual, with no distancing or vaccine, COVID would have killed ~3 million to ~1.5 million Americans.

        It's unclear to what extent the mandated government lockdowns, with their confusing and contradictory orders, saved lives. But the large amount of voluntary social distancing definitely helped (probably the most helpful part of the mandated lockdowns was making it easier to distance without getting in trouble with one's employer). And the vaccine was literally a life-saver.

        Personally, I think the big issue has been that for decades progressives have claimed that every single pet cause of theirs has been a "public health issue." So people are used to progressives yelling "public health" whenever they want to oppress someone. Progressives spent so much time crying "wolf" that when COVID-19, an actual wolf, showed up, people instinctively pushed back, even though that didn't make sense since this time it really was a public health issue.

        1. It's been less than 2 years and 824,000 Americans have died of COVID. So you are literally off by an order of magnitude.

          Link to a falsifiable analysis that 824k have died of COVID? An imaginary number isn't an order of magnitude higher than anything.

          1. Link to a single instance of there was no room because of all the beds were occupied by people who were dying of respiratory failure.

            I particularly like the anti-progressive rant at the end of the mainstream lefty rant.

          2. It isn’t an analysis. It’s a tally. How can a tally be falsifiable?

            1. For you, I suspect, whenever you run out of fingers and toes.

            2. this rolling "tally" keeps being tossed out as an irrefutable fact when even the CDC differentiated deaths FROM vs. WITH covid. That guy is making a claim based on what he's been told to parrot.

            3. Because year over year death totals haven't changed?

            4. Because it doesn't account for died from or died with. Nor does it account for how many hospitalized covid deaths weren't infected with covid UNTIL AFTER they went to the hospital for something else. Nor does it account for the massive amount of false positives from faulty PCR tests that literally just had their emergency use authority removed and are no longer valid.

          3. Instead of just throwing sand in the air and manufacturing doubt, why don't you come up with an analysis of what you think the "actual" number is?

            1. I think the not knowing the actual number from the government or healthcare system is the point. Not what the actual number is.

              1. Okay, maybe the number is 823,000 and not 824,000. What is the point?

                1. Sure, you can approach this issue disingenuously by being dismissive. Or you can be intellectually honest and understand how claims of "with" and "from" are relevant issues to be answered and understand that died "with" COVID cases look to be a significant number.

                  Are they enough to claim that COVID is simply the flu? Highly, highly doubtful. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be curious. Unless of course you have a broader political tribal purpose to hold up.

                  1. Here is the problem, though.

                    Yes it would be nice to have an exact figure. Some people try to honestly discover this exact figure by asking questions and digging into data. Good for them. But then, there are some people who deliberately try to sow doubt on the best available data, even if imprecise, for their own motives, to gaslight people. They would prefer people to believe that the number of people who died FROM COVID to be vanishingly small, because it would help THEIR OWN political tribal purpose. Imagine if the "real number" of people who died FROM COVID was only like that of a typical flu season. Then Trump would have been right all along! And all of the lockdowns and the mitigation measures were all pointless! And Team Red was right, and Team Blue was wrong! But one can only arrive at that point if one is successfully gaslighted about the meaning of the statistics. That is what I oppose. Creating doubt just for the purpose of creating doubt, with no intention of trying to arrive at a more truthful or accurate description of reality.

                    1. So, because some people use information in ways you don't like, better to keep the truth hidden and continue to gaslight? That is a bizarre position to take. But then again, I'm not scared of truthful information or my fellow human's use of that info.

                    2. 3 different locals did what you asked. Colorado and 2 California counties. They all ended up with a lowered death count by about 30% not the 0.1% you used dismissively.

                    3. No, I am fine with trying to uncover the truth. I am not just going to indulge doubt for doubt's sake. If the response is going to be, "the numbers are wrong, all the data is a fraud!!" then I am not interested. But if the response is "the data is incorrect, let's see if we can try to find better answers", then I'll happily participate.

                    4. Again, basing whether truthful info should be disseminated on whether you approve how people use that information is wicked and gross. You've let tribal politics corrupt your mindset way too much.

                    5. Again, basing whether truthful info should be disseminated on whether you approve how people use that information is wicked and gross.

                      That's NOT what I'm saying.

                      I think authorities ought to present the best available data, understanding that the data often will have ambiguity and uncertainty. I am absolutely fine with people pointing out flaws in the data in a good-faith manner to try to arrive at a more accurate dataset. I am NOT interested in indulging the concern trolls who ONLY want to spread doubt in order to serve a gaslighting agenda. See the difference?

                    6. I see the difference. That was the whole point of my post. You, however, are much more concerned whether information helps those on the right make arguments rather than taking legitimate positions simply based on info. Everything you write is based on politics, not base info.

                      You are honestly one side of the same coin.

                    7. Oh give me a break. You want me to pretend that gaslighting concern trolls are sincere and honest, when they are not.

                    8. And by the way. It is not mere "political tribalism" to object to concern trolling. It is about not letting people get away with using science as a weapon against itself, and people on all sides have been known to do that sort of thing. For example, the 9/11 Truthers would do that - they would exploit the fact that we don't have *precise* knowledge about every single detail about what happened on 9/11 to push their noxious views. They would exploit minor inconsistencies in our knowledge of events to push open a huge box of doubt that then opens the door for their own beliefs. "Wait, you mean Building 7 didn't fall *exactly* as the 'experts' said it did? Then that means that the experts are lying, and it is OBVIOUSLY because they are controlled by the Jews/it was an inside job/Bush is Hitler/etc." That is how it tends to work and that is what is happening now with doubt about precise details about the pandemic.

                    9. When we know most covid deaths died "with" not "from"

                      When we know most covid hospitalizations weren't infected until AFTER they went to the hospital for something else.

                      When we know hospitals have a nearly $30,000 incentive to record covid deaths.

                      When we know the PCR test gives nearly 65% false positives and had its EUA expire Jan 1st and is no longer valid for that reason.

                      When we know they've stopped counting breakthrough infections unless the person is hospitalized to make the vaccine look more neutralizing than it is.

                      When we know they changed the definition of vaccine and fully vaccinated in the middle of the pandemic to make the vaccine look more efficacious than it is.

                      When we know all that, much of which directly influences covid death and hospitalization numbers, why would any rational, reasonable person think the numbers were accurate?

                      Anyone with a slight background in statistics (like you took it in high school) can see how unclean and shitty that data is.

                  2. “Or you can be intellectually honest”

                    See, now that’s where you’re wrong.

                  3. Look IS, rather than your bullshit line, why not be honest and admit that the US count is done the very same way the count is done all overthe world possibly to within a a couple of percent.

                    1. Don Nico. My bullshit line? What the fuck is wrong with you? First, show me the cite that we count the same way? Second, explain to me how that is the correct way to count? Third, stop being an ass.

        2. About 36,000 Americans die of the flu per year. It's been less than 2 years and 824,000 Americans have died of COVID.
          I think you mean 'with covid'. If 10% of your population has a virus, you'd expect 10% of your deaths to have it, even if it had nothing at all to do with what killed them.

          1. how many die 'with' the flu each year....?
            maybe then we could compare apples to apples...
            nah... they'd never try to get the data to try that,,, it might turn out by that method 800000 die each year of the flu

            1. My guess is we'd be looking at about 300,000 before we even get to the people that the flu kills if any positive PCR test within 28 days made it a flu death.

            2. Flu tests are apparently only good for a week while covid tests can show a result for up to 3 months.

        3. It's been less than 2 years and 824,000 Americans have died of COVID.

          That is incorrect. 824,000 Americans who were adjacent to COVID have died. We've discussed this in detail before. If we tracked regular flu the way we tracked covid, you'd probably "discover" 400,000 flu deaths per year, and that's my low estimate.

          The number of times I was tested for regular flu before 2020 was exactly zero, and I'm not young. Yet I've been tested half a dozen times COVID.

          1. Notice how influenza disappeared worldwide last year?

            1. Not a Christmas miracle?

              1. A mask miracle!

          2. " 824,000 Americans who were adjacent to COVID have died."
            Where did you ever get that lie?

          3. I depart from my right of center people here. Covid absolutely, positively impacted this country, and you cannot waive that away. Arguing about "with" or "From" is a fool's errand. And trying to find an exact number is going to be impossible.

            But just look at the graph here:


            It is absolutely clear that something major happened starting in 2020 and that the number of monthly deaths departed a curve in this country that has remained relatively stable. 2018 was a particularly bad Flu year, and you can see that it is just a blip compared to the last 2 years in the US.

            All that is undeniable, but that doesn't change the fact that 1) this was despite draconian lockdowns, and other countries- even ones with fewer lockdowns did way better than us. 2) No person has a claim on our rights to liberty in the name of protection from a natural pathogen.

            Don't get wrapped up arguing facts with these people. The moral case against the CDC's absolute clowning around is enough.

        4. “I just want to be clear in terms of the definition of people dying of COVID. The case definition is very simplistic. It means at the time of death it was a COVID positive diagnosis. So, that means that if you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means that if technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause but you had COVID at the same time it’s still listed as a COVID death. Everyone who is listed as a COVID death—that doesn’t mean it was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death.”

          Dr. Ngozi Ezike of the Illinois Dept. of Public Health, admitting that COVID deaths are being grossly overcounted.

          1. A sample size of one but my mother in law died last January 2021 due to dementia. She was tested for covid about a month before as NY State forced hospices to test and the test came up positive. She died of dementia but the death certificate said dementia with covid as a contributing factor. I asked the doc about this and was later told that if you tested positive from covid they had to count it.

        5. First your numbers are died with, not died of.

          2nd youre choosing an average instead of a bad case.

          3rd about 3 million people die in the US every year.

          4th you are using 2 years to compare to one year.

          5th you ignore percentages where you would see covid death rates closely mirror natural death rates per group implying an over counting.

          Live on fear as long as you want. Leave the rest of us the fuck alone.

          1. Wake up Jesse.

        6. I'd contribute an additional response, but it seems like you've been ... handled.

          1. Yup.
            Well done, everybody.

            1. I am so happy to see all this informed snark, I may just tear up a little.

        7. How about pneumonias?

      2. If it was just the US that lost its shit, I'd be more inclined to agree. But it happened throughout the world. Something more than US electoral politics was at work here.

    2. Our household became a home of the Wu Flu this winter break, and I was absolutely dumbfounded by the levels of conflicting information that are out there right now.

      These assholes have spent so long curating messages for political reasons that there is absolutely NO consistency on any site. California has introduced "science based, quantitative benchmarks" on multiple occasions over the last two years. One day we are watching case counts. Another day, positivity rate. Then a blend of positivity rates and hospital ICU capacity. Then a weighted 7 day average, and vaccination rates. It has been utterly absurd.

      We needed a very simple answer: With the wife and I isolating while we recovered from this mild head cold, we needed to know when our kids (home-testing negative, and no symptoms) could go back to school. This is a fucking joke. Between CDC, State and Local sites, AND between the various Search engines injecting their own opinions of importance, I found at least 5 totally different sets of guidance ranging from "As long as they are vaccinated and symptom free, send em to school" to "Keep them home for 14 days and test twice a week!!!"

      These fucking people have lost all credibility.

      1. Simple answer.
        Do what you would do for the "regular" flu.

        The Communist Chinese Virus is a flu virus, near the opposite end from the common cold, but still flu virus.
        Stay away from the obviously sick, and stay home if you are obviously sick.
        Get the vaccines if you are comfortable with an "emergency use only" approval.
        Avoid blue states and cities.
        Be suspicious of any data on the web, and doubly suspicious of any advice from any federal agency or executive.
        See, simple.

        1. You didn’t address asymptomatic spread.

          1. Simple answer.
            Do what you would do for the "regular" flu.

          2. Asymptomatic spread is fiction

            1. Not amongst the vaccinated. Given that the jab is often successful at mitigating symptoms yet does nothing for actual viral loador preventing transmission, and also given that a significant portion of Covid is spread by aerosolized droplets in normal exhalation... There are reasons densely populated blue vaxxed cities would have a boom.

              1. Exactly. Vaccination eliminates one persons symptoms so they can then spread it to 47 others to fill the hospitals up.

                Empty beds dont make money.

                Criminal stupidity.

            2. Even if it's not fiction, it's still a black swan event/phenomenon and I've said as much since the beginning. It explicitly denotes someone as having the disease without having the disease.

            3. More lies.

              1. Ever since all the Trumpkins started worshiping Joe Rogan they’ve been lying about Covid even more.

                1. At this point I feel it necessary to ask where Joe Rogan touched you?

                2. Cite to evidence of Asymptomatic infection?

                  1. They can’t provide it and your a dirty Trumpist if you disagree with them about anything related to Covid.

          3. Cite to evidence of Asymptomatic infection?

    3. Remember double-masking? Remember when that was the #1 dance craze in America? I do. Notice how no one in that picture is double masking?

      Remember when the risk from not masking was greater in a places like Churches and lecture halls, where people were speaking and projecting their droplets around the venue, as opposed to a library or a grocery store where everybody was quietly recirculating the air in their own little 6 foot zone?

      Remember Biden's first speech after emerging from his bunker that he gave while masked, only to pull it down mid-speech and cough into his fist (like we teach toddlers not to do)?

      1. Remember when Covid only came out at night for curfew?

    4. Ooh, “They”. It’s all a conspiracy, I tell ya!!!

      1. How is the sand in that hole?

      2. Dee knows what was meant by “they” but she’s very dishonest.

      3. It's our pronoun you anti-progressive child ass-raping monkey. Now I'm a triggered snowflake in meltdown. I'm going to dox you and then call your work to get you fired. /s

  5. But while hospitalizations are a better indicator of severe disease, those numbers also can be misleading, because they include relatively mild cases and people who tested positive for the coronavirus after they were admitted for different reasons.

    Something many commenters, myself included, have been consistently pointing out for months. The fact that the American public is routinely bombarded with scary looking graphs purporting to document hospitalizations, none are ever accompanied by the underlying source data to enable one to differentiate between those hospitalized with COVID as opposed to those hospitalized because of COVID.

    This is the same game the CDC and local government have been playing with "COVID deaths," as well.

    1. Well, to be sure, on the other hand, COVID has been shown to cause gunshots and motorcycle accidents.

    2. It was recently reported in the UK that nearly 70% of their covid "hospitalizations" are people who were infected AFTER going to the hospital for something else. And of those, 60% hadn't tested positive until already in the hospital for something else for over 7 days.

      1. Because there is no ventilation system on earth... What a time.

        1. Good damn thing WE dont have Socialized Medicine, huh?


  6. And while there is ample reason to worry that the sheer number of COVID-19 cases will overwhelm hospitals

    First ENB and now Sullum. READ OSTER's ARTICLE CLOSELY. She does not say that hospital's are overwhelmed (ENB misquote). And she does not say that cases will overwhelm hospitals (Sullum misquote). She says that hospitals in their present depleted staffing state may still become overwhelmed but the data that would allow us to predict it sucks ass.

    1. A very clear problem is that Hospitals *always* run at near capacity. If they run with lots of excess capacity, they are losing money. Do a search back in 2018 and you will see lots of handwringing about hospital capacity during a particularly bad Flu season.

      Hospitals- by design- run at 80%+ capacity. And they have procedures and protocols to increase that capacity greatly in times of public health emergencies. This has been the case for decades, but the press completely misunderstands what it means for a hospital to be reaching capacity, and think that if a hospital gets full, it doesn't have dozens of different remedies.

      1. Case and point, the second "overwhelm" article Sullum leads to is a typical shitty scare piece from CNN with this detail right at the top:

        Hospitalizations were also climbing, with 78% of ICU beds in the US full as of late last week, according to data from the US Department of Health and Human Services.

        Context, motherfuckers, context. 78% is concerning exactly why? In fact, not at all. Dumb ass reporters think the normal state of hospitals is empty.

        1. Wait until they discover how many people die in this country every year ...

          1. ...and how many of them continue to vote.

      2. Makes me think of an American Dad episode wherein Francine freaks out about sick people in hospitals and Stan dismissively laughs at her while saying, "baby, that's what we build 'em for."

  7. Clearly the answer is to let infected hospital workers continue working.

    "Follow the science" my ass.

    1. Only if they were baptized with the vax.

    2. As long as symptoms are mild... Because they already fired the unvaxxed because they could get or spread Covid.

      Yep. Sciencism.

  8. Now do George Floyd.

    Ashli Babbitt a martyr? Her past tells a more complex story

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The first time Celeste Norris laid eyes on Ashli Babbitt, the future insurrectionist had just rammed her vehicle three times with an SUV and was pounding on the window, challenging her to a fight.

    Norris says the bad blood between them began in 2015, when Babbitt engaged in a monthslong extramarital affair with Norris’ longtime live-in boyfriend. When she learned of the relationship, Norris called Babbitt’s husband and told him she was cheating.

    “She pulls up yelling and screaming,” Norris said in an exclusive interview with The Associated Press, recounting the July 29, 2016, road-rage incident in Prince Frederick, Maryland. “It took me a good 30 seconds to figure out who she was. … Just all sorts of expletives, telling me to get out of the car, that she was going to beat my ass.”

    1. "the future insurrectionist"

      Wow. And the media wonders why they have zero credibility. Just, wow!

      1. What do you call people who violently try to overthrow the US government?

        1. Weatherman Underground?

          1. I like that you have to go almost a half century into the past before you can smoke out left-wing terrorists with even a modicum of violence to their record.

            1. The people that ran out the police and set up the autonomous zone in Seattle?

            2. You mean people that actually shot and bombed people instead of people "parading" in a public building?

            3. Teacher Unions? Madison WI

        2. Keep holding on to Jan 6. When all you have is this, you don't have much.

        3. Antifa?
          Occupy ?
          The Resistance?

        4. What evidence than anyone was trying to overthrow the US government?
          Their apparent (and stated) goal was to convince congress not to certify the election. Which is not in any sense the overthrow of the US government.

    2. Her past tells a more complex story

      The modern equivalent of mounting a head on a pole.

      1. I like how someone being a generally unlikable person disqualifies their Martyr status. This is going to be really fun going forward. Real fun. This article is going in the tool belt for future use.

        1. You know who else was unliked by a majority and died a martyr?

          1. Che Guevara? Grigory Zinoviev?

        2. The subject of the article painting her as such lost her husband to her. Not exactly unbiased.

    3. The most interesting thing about your comment is that you somehow see Babbitt and Floyd as being related, or having bearing on each other. It reveals your hyper partisan world view more than anything.

      1. You have got to be one of the most purposefully dense people I've ever read a comment from.

        1. Yeah, he really is. Babbitt's death is not even indirectly attributable to anything other than the actions of a police officer who was not reasonably protecting himself or others from harm. Her past is infinitely more irrelevant than Floyd's.

        2. Back at ya.

          1. You really are though. Consistently.

          2. You are proving his point, dummy.

        3. Mike Laursen is not a person, it's a virus


        What happened in Waukesha on November 21st was exponentially worse than what happened in DC on January 6th

      3. One was shot unarmed. One died of drugs being held down after resisting arrest and no weapons used.

      4. Well, they were both murdered by police. But what does that have to do with anything? The comment is about how people who have become martyrs for certain causes are presented and treated in the media. If Babbit shouldn't be held up as some kind of martyr because she was an unpleasant person, why not apply the same to Floyd and other victims of police violence?


      Liberals get enraged when news outlets dig up dirt on the past of unarmed victims of police shootings in order to show they were "no angels": i.e. to justify the shooting.

      Apparently it's OK sometimes: here's HuffPost on how Ashli Babbitt was no angel:

      "On social media, Babbitt identified as a Libertarian and ardent supporter of the Second Amendment. Her posts included videos of profane rants against Democrats, COVID-19 mask mandates and illegal immigration."

      Oh, in that case: glad the police killed her. Got what she deserved.


      1. Nobody at the insurrection seemed like a particularly self-actualized human being. The GOP has been searching under rocks for votes in recent decades. Weren't things better when that trash was the silent majority? Oh how I miss the silence.

        1. People who call jan 6th an insurrection are actually retarded.

          1. insurrection (n): a violent uprising against an authority or government.

            Seems pretty apt to me, but there are other words one could use I suppose. Attempted auto-coup?

            1. So, then you would agree all the leftist riots during the summer of 2020 meet that definition as well?

            2. Are we defining violence as not wiling feet on the entry mats? Likewise it takes someone truly retarded to believe people entered a building unarmed to attempt an overthrow.

  9. 'Indicates that the omicron variant, which accounts for an estimated 59 percent of current COVID-19 cases in the U.S., is more contagious but less lethal than the delta variant.' Exactly what the data from South Africa showed, in a much shorter time? But why re-invent the wheel, so the fear-mongering can be used to push for more intrusive policies, before admitting that the folks where the variant was 1st seen were correct? This has never been about public health, safety, or good intentions. It has been about fear, irrational levels of risk aversion, and ignorance -and how best to use them to apply control measures.

  10. Woodchipper.

    1. Is this Tulpa or SQRLSY today?

      1. He has been trolling as sqrsly and trying to not be as big a troll on sarc. Been amusing. He already failed at the latter.

  11. Too little, too late.

    1. Yup - and a lot of about faces.

      1. You must mean about feces

  12. Great, now get that asshat to admit covid risk is minnimal for those under 50.

  13. Remember these headlines? I do.

    >a href="">

    People vaccinated against Covid-19 can go without masks indoors and outdoors, CDC says

    CDC updates guidance, recommends vaccinated people wear masks indoors in certain areas

    1. Meh, link fail, CNN health links. I'm going through the literal hundreds of contradictory headlines today. It's fun stuff.

      Remember, double masking is the equivalent of an n95 mask!

      1. so a single, cloth mask is the equivalent of an n47.5?

      2. If you want to be sure, wear a plastic bag over your head. Secure it with duct tape around your neck.

        1. I usually recommend 8mil plastic sheeting tobecertain.

    2. They've been wrong about so much.

      They were wrong about how a vaccine wouldn't be available within a year.

      They were wrong about how the pandemic couldn't possibly have started in a laboratory.

      The appeal to authority fallacy should be reason enough not to take their word for anything, especially in regards to qualitative considerations like relative safety vs. prosperity, but if the appeal to logic doesn't disabuse people of their reliance on the experts at the CDC, the CDC's horrible batting average should.

      The only thing they've been consistently right about is that getting vaccinated really is the smart thing to do--and you should ask your primary care physician if you have any questions your own case.

      1. It's not even the rightness or wrongness of their bullshit proclamations. It's the violently shifting sands of their proclamations without ANY acknowledgement of said shifting sands.

        Science gets things wrong. Science is a process where new data can cause changes to policy. It's the fact that they refuse to acknowledge that the current proclamation which contradicts the previous proclamation differs in any way from prior proclamations. We're literally told to believe that there never was any previous proclamation.

        They tell you something, it turns out to not be true, they tell you the new thing, and when you say, "Hang on, what about that old thing you said!" they literally claim they never said the old thing they said, and when you give them the side-by-side evidence, they literally lie about the context in which it was said, claiming that their denial of saying said thing negated its ever being said.

        1. Yep. On one hand, they say the science keeps shifting. On the other hand, they say we can't question the science because it's settled.

          So the science is settled until it shifts, but then you still can't question it because after it shifts it's settled again. Until it shifts again, anyway.

          1. Doublethink at work.

          2. Who says you cannot question the science?

            1. No one. It's never even been suggested.

              “Given what we know and have known for decades about climate change, to deny the science, deceive the public, and willfully obstruct any serious response to the climate catastrophe is to allow entire countries and cultures to disappear. It is to rob people, starting with the poorest and most vulnerable on the planet, of their land, their homes, their livelihoods, even their lives – and their children’s lives, and their children’s children’s lives. For profit. And for political power.

              There’s a word for this: these are crimes. They are crimes against the earth, and they are crimes against humanity.”

              1. I was obviously asking my question in the context of science regarding COVID. And you went and jumped contexts to climate change.

                1. Mike, anyone spreading “COVID misinformation” is promptly censored on the major social media outlets. People who have been censored include the most published cardiologist in the world and the guy who invented the MRNA vaccine. “COVID misinformation” includes anything that contradicts what the CDC and NIH are currently saying. Since there is no room for disagreement on these matters, I’d say the science is considered settled.

                  1. He's just back to his normal tactic of playing dumb. It's funny how common that debate tactic is anymore.

                    1. No cites, not even appeal to authority, just appear to “everybody knows”.

                      You don’t realize your “everybody knows” truths are simply right-wing beliefs that you don’t see questioned by those in your bubble.

                  2. Even worse, you can AGREE with the CDC that the vaccination doesn't stop transmission and STILL be banned!

                    1. Cite?

                2. You are the most willfully obtuse and boring troll to ever comment on these boards.

                  White Indian was a better quality poster.

            2. You sealioning summabitch. Almost got me to respond.

            3. You really lean into the "playing dumb game" that has become all the rage these days.

              1. I don’t buy into statements that are only obviously true within a right-wing bubble. Sure, that’s “playing dumb” (to people in that bubble).

                1. But it's not. The amount of disinformation and blocking of actual information about COVID has been staggering. It ain't just a right-wing bubble thing. To believe so is being purposefully obtuse. But, like I said, you tend to employ the purposefully obtuse tactic a lot.

                  1. A Geneticist told me the Govt was threatening Scientists who tried to study this independently.

                    A few tens of billions of dollars one cares?

                2. Information is obviously true if it is obviously true. Where it is promoted has nothing to do with the truthfulness. Dumbass.

                3. It only looks like a right wing bubble to people who live in the propaganda bubble created by mainstream news sources.

        2. It also seemed to be politically motivated--especially given the timing. We were arguing about whether and how much to lockdown the economy, whether and how much to spend on another Covid stimulus bill, and whether or not we should reelect Donald Trump.

          People were making assumptions based on how long it would take for the vaccines to start being distributed--and that was just one question. The CDC was wrong about a lot of things, and people made important long term decisions based on what the CDC was saying.

          The fundamental problem of science and its inherent uncertainty does seem to be at odds with the CDC's mission to project an image of authority and certainty. The legitimate authority they would enjoy by consensus doesn't mean much when the data is still coming in and things are still so uncertain.

          And projecting more certainty than there should have been when the American people were forming their opinions should make average Americans less likely to trust what the CDC says in the future. Meanwhile, "because the CDC said so"--by itself--was never a good reason to believe anything.

        3. "Hang on, what about that old thing you said!" they literally claim they never said the old thing they said, and when you give them the side-by-side evidence, they literally lie about the context in which it was said, claiming that their denial of saying said thing negated its ever being said.

          Based on the link that you provided, who is saying that Walensky's March 2021 claims were "never said" based on her August 2021 claims? Her March claims turned out not to be true - are you claiming that they were deliberate lies? I don't know what you expect of her here.

      2. "President Trump on Wednesday again said widespread distribution of a vaccine against the coronavirus would happen before the end of the year, directly contradicting Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Robert Redfield. The CDC chief testified earlier Wednesday that a vaccine would not be widely available until next spring or summer."

        ----NPR, September 16, 2020

        1. "On December 10, 2020, the FDA granted emergency use to the Pfizer vaccine. On December 14, 2020, the first vaccine doses were administered. Sandra Lindsay of Queens, New York City, was the first American to be administered an FDA-authorized COVID-19 vaccine. The Moderna vaccine was granted emergency use authorization three days later, on December 17.

          On December 21, President-elect Joe Biden publicly received his first dose of the Pfizer vaccine during a media event at Christiana Hospital in Delaware. The event was intended as a means by the incoming Biden administration to boost public confidence in the vaccines . . . . On March 12, 2021, the United States surpassed 100 million doses administered."

          1. Always remember they waited to announce the vaccine until after the election.

            1. You talking about the Trump administration? That was dumb of them.

              1. No, Pfizer. Who's ceo also had a call option scheduled for right after the press conference dumbass.

                No pre planning or collusion there...

                It's no wonder you liberals are so fucking pathetic when you can't keep up with the facts.

                1. Everything's a conspiracy.

                  1. I remember when libs thought big pharma was the scum of the earth. Now they swallow their pills whole.

                    1. Always fun to watch the bedfellows political tribalism creates. The left now loves big pharma and the right now hates big pharma.

                      Of course, that will change in the future if the discussion leads to things like universal healthcare.

                      Shows there really aren't any true principles held by people.

                    2. yes when it was Bush Bashing.

                      Now theyre " swallowing" on a Harris level.

                  2. No. But that doesn't mean that nothing is a conspiracy.

      3. The only thing they've been consistently right about is that getting vaccinated really is the smart thing to do--and you should ask your primary care physician if you have any questions your own case.

        From a personal, biological/healthcare standpoint. I remain unconvinced that taking part in the deficit-spending/up-front-payment, pseudo-scientific huckster, panic-response vaccination progrom is a smart thing to do.

        1. You won't take a free vaccine for a deadly virus because of deficit spending?

          The smarts. So many smarts.

          1. For his risk profile the vaccine has probably more risk. Look at the reported adverse reactions.

            1. More risk than covid? You'd have to have a pretty specific set of conditions for that to be the case.

              1. Dr. Joe Rogan is an expert on COVID and vaccines and he knows best. Isn't that right Jesse?

                1. This just shows you to be an ignorant shit jeff. Youre dismissing multiple heavily cited and published doctors merely for appearing on Rogan. Same with many more in the Barrington Declaration.

                  This is Judy proof youre a partisan dumbfuck who doesn't actually care about educating yourself. All day you pushed this leftist talking point with one actual criticism of any statement made by the doctors you are criticizing. It is pathetic but common for you.

                2. Why did the Danish researchers find such a high correlation between getting the vaccine and getting omicron variant COVID? Must be one of those things that make you go hmmm, but just doesn't fit the narrative so must be ignored.


                  1. JOE ROGAN!!! ARGGHHH!

                  2. getting the vax = GUARANTEED to get the virus.

                    I Am Fully Un- Vaccinated

                    Fuck Joe Biden and his little dog Fauci

                  3. That is not at all what the study says. Where do you get this nonsense?

                3. Jeff the regular collectivist strikes again!

              2. Is already having Covid and getting over it just fine specific enough for you?

              3. Covids risk for those under 60 and not obese is the same as driving to work every day. Men especially have a higher risk of adverse reaction than covid if they are not in immuno or obese risk factors.

                It helps to actually investigate your claims Tony.

        2. ...but its FREE!!

          der Impfstoff macht dich frei

  14. The graphic on the front page of the New York Times is telling.

    The change in the average number of cases over the last 14 days is +204%

    The change in the average number of death over the last 14 days is down 3%.

    Triple the number of cases and have fewer deaths than before makes it look like the worm* is already turning.

    *No, I didn't mean Fauci, but he is a worm.

    1. Did you notice that the graphic for hot spots almost perfectly correlates with the graphic for most vaccinated?

      1. No, Ken is still committed to the vax populi

    2. Panic creep. Fauci engages in it and is it.

  15. The kids and I have mild colds. We are vaccinated so it may or may not be Covid, but I am not going to bother testing because what’s the point, really?

    1. You could be a neat statistic!

      1. I was in the same situation. The son decided to drop off a couple of tests. Now a cold has become 5 days off for my wife and me hopefully being able to work from home. Probably best to have just avoided being a statistic on a government chart.

        1. Did you actually see your son drop them off? No? There's got to be an invisible son.

          1. Dammit, you beat me to it!

    2. Well, you might take some pleasure in knowing that your (prior) infection gives you much greater immunity than a course of a half dozen "vaccine" injections.

      1. I mean, if I thought I had covid, I'd probably get tested, because I'd want to wave that shit in front of peoples faces while screaming "two weeks to flatten the curve!"

        1. Again, rather than getting jabbed, I'd rather get tested whether I have COVID or not just to get the inevitable positive result. I can't count the number of personal acquaintances I know who've suspected they had COVID and been given, effectively, the same advice with "honest" motivations.

          1. if you " caught it" and dont get severely ill, then you DONT need vaccinated.

            You have PERMANENT immunity.

            That sounds like a plan!

            1. "You have PERMANENT immunity."
              You are completely delusional. That claim is soundly debunked by
              Goldberg Y, Mandel M, Bar-On YM, et al., “Protection and waning of natural and hybrid COVID-19 immunity,” medRxiv preprint, December 5, 2021

              1. Permanent immunity to the strain you caught, and as for other strains, a fuckton better protection than the vaccines.

      2. My older sister told me last fall "I'm naturally vaccinated now and have 30 times more immunity than you with your vaccination." Well now I have double vaccinations and natural immunity. Woohoo! Winning.

        1. Not how it works.

        2. Your older sister wants to see you dead.

    3. "...but I am not going to bother testing..."

      Thank you for your service. As long as the "public health" fascists are using positive cases to drive "policy" decisions, no one should get tested absent a compelling reason to do so. And if they say they are now using hospitalizations and/or deaths to set policy, believe them at your own risk, because I won't.

      1. Funny thing; if the governments didn't require a negative test result in so many instances, there would be no reason to get tested and no shortage of tests.
        Sadly, also no massive profits for the pharmas and the politicians.


      2. That's right. All the government numbers are lies. The only numbers you can believe are the ones from Joe Rogan and Uncle Fester.

        1. Jeffy‘s gone full sarc.

          You start drinking heavy Jeff?

          1. He has been going ad hom all day and not even reading up on the backgrounds of these doctors. He things screaming Rogan is an intelligent statement lol.

        2. You have utterly failed with this leftist talking point all day lol. Just makes you look willfully ignorant.

        3. Why is it that last year, when there was no vaccine, there were fewer deaths than the last 10 months, when a vaccine has been available? (, 385,000 vs 386,000, November 2021)
          Last year, the Covid 19 virus (Xi) should have been the most dangerous. Hence more deaths should have occurred from it.
          Last year, when the virus went thru an unprotected populace, those most vulnerable, weak and susceptible, those most easily killed by a virus should have been disproportionately killed by said virus, leaving far fewer of the demographic to die this year.
          Last year, when no one had the vaccine, deaths should have been so catastrophic that the vulnerable pools of people were eliminated.
          But the last 10 months have saw MORE deaths! This is a non sequitur! A large portion of the population has been fully vaccinated! ( Those who are not vaccinated should be dying at a less or equal rate to the deaths last year (Fauci, Delta variant more contagious but less lethal, interviews 4Jul21). But deaths are increasing, even amongst the vaccinated which has to be incorrect because the vaccine is safe and effective, right? How is it possible to have MORE people dying with the vaccine that without it, at a faster rate? Are we being fed (gasp) misinformation?!?! No, No, NO! Fact checkers nationwide assure us that they are ensuring that only narrative facts are being published! HOW CAN MORE PEOPLE BE DYING OF THE DREADED DISEASE IF THERE IS A SAFE EFFECTIVE VACCINE?? Unless...we being lied to? (NOOOOOOOOooooooooo......sob)

          1. I am just tired of this.

            First, you are making apples-to-oranges comparisons. You can't compare calendar year 2020 to calendar year 2021. For the first half of 2020, the virus wasn't even here, and when it was, the lockdowns and mask mandates were largely being obeyed, which significantly slowed the spread.

            Second, saying the vaccine is "safe and effective" does not mean 100% safe or 100% effective. It is a general term, like describing airline travel as "safe". That some people occasionally die in plane crashes does not contradict the overall statistical validity of the claim.

            Third, no the vaccines are not as effective as originally hoped. When the vaccines were first studied, the effectiveness was high, but it diminishes over time. It is not a LIE to report the effectiveness of the vaccine when it was first developed.

            I just get tired of having to always refute these basic logic errors.

            1. Excuses, lies, and false assumptions are all collectivistjeff has when it's pointed out how idiotic and evil its totalitarianism is.
              Put your fatass to use and become compost.

            2. You are so full of shit.

              The goddamn virus was here at least as early as February, and considering travel to and from China, probably a couple months before that.

              And that’s just debunking the first lie you told.

          2. "Why is it that last year, when there was no vaccine, there were fewer deaths than the last 10 months"
            Very simple, The Alpha, Delta and Gamma variants are considerable more virulent than the wild Wuhan strain.

            1. that usually doesn't occur..viruses become less virulent not more as they mutate given its random and the majority of the time mutations lower the ability of the virus to enter cells and replicate. Unless..well you have some intelligent design to begin with...which is most likely the case.

    4. yourenot facilitating Biden and Fauci lining corporate pockets with PROFIT!

      Traitor! Well all die because of you!


  16. I saw a local news report on the "overwhelmed hospitals" crap - turns out if you actually listen to what the doctor is saying, the emergency rooms are overwhelmed by people claiming to have a cough and wanting a test because the testing stations are overwhelmed and it's a six-hour wait in line to get a test whereas if you pop in to the emergency room you can get a test in about half an hour. Needless to say, I suspect most of the people abusing the system this way are the ones who never have to worry about a hospital bill and have nothing better to do all day long than to wait in line anyway.

    1. Yep, this is yet another subject no one wants to talk about. With Democrats believing that a covid infection gives you a greater than 50% chance of going to the hospital, the second these people either test positive or think they MIGHT test positive are going to run to the hospital, waving their arms around screaming "I'm going to dieeeeeee!"

    2. Case in point:

      New Jersey residents are being warned not to go to the emergency room to try to get COVID tests.

      State health officials say they are being flooded with requests and want to remind the public emergency departments are for emergencies only.

      That includes those experiencing shortness of breath, chest pain or other severe COVID symptoms.

      1. That includes those experiencing shortness of breath, chest pain or other heart attack symptoms.

        1. Climate change has been causing a lot of heart attacks in young healthy people lately.

    3. they all got what they deserved...idiots.

    4. anxious bed wetting liberals..NYC types if you know what I mean

  17. Over 1200 US citizens are dying daily. Mostly but unfortunately not all from the shallow unvaccinated end of the gene pool.

    1. Unfortunate for the vulnerable people including those who cannot safely be vaccinated.

    2. Yeah, maybe we should round up all the untermensch and concentrate them somewhere, right stormfag?

    3. Does that mean I get a yellow star?

      1. only if youre unvaccinated

    4. Unless you believe as Jews claimed that 166 holocausts of 6 million Jews occurred since before WW1, you, your fuckwit lying Jewish grandparents collecting reparations, all the veteran liberators of prison camps, all the judges and prosecutors of holocaust crimes, etc etc etc are ALL HOLOCAUST DENIERS or worse.

      Think about it. Now squirm like a worm on a hook for the rest of your life while I laugh.

      Yeah, you’re holocaust deniers. Are you also anti Semites? You cried to see the face of your bogeyman jew, now look in a mirror.


      1. Do you ever read what you wrote before you post it to make sure it’s intelligible?

    5. Pshh...Chicago on a good weekend has 1200 shootings, it's just that the EMTs and Paramedics in Chicago are so battle tested and experienced that they save 99% of them.

      1. In the Us there are about 14000 gun homicides last year. Covid kills that many in two weeks.

        The entire nations health resources are working tirelessly to keep it that low.

        1. Have you seen Joe Rogan’s opinion on the holocaust? Disgusting.

          1. Nope, but he’s a denier just like you.

            1. If he’s just like me, why did I call him disgusting? What, you’ve never heard him talk about how fun it would be to throw Jews in the oven?

              1. Unless you and he, anyone for that matter believes that the poor persecuted Jews suffered a little over 3 holocausts a year between 1900 and 1945 killing and affecting about 18 million Jews a year, you must be denying at least a few of them.

                Aren’t you?

                1. A communist and a nazi arguing with one another in a “who’s the biggest asshole?” contest.

                  1. Denier! Hisssss

  18. Every day until you like it.

    25% of women in the hospital with COVID are pregnant. Let that sink in for a moment. One quarter of women in the hospital who pop a positive COVID test are preggers. And what's the overwhelming reason that women go to the hospital? Pregnancy. Since the very beginning, case numbers have been a complete snow job with the express purpose of irrationally scaring millions of people into supporting whatever ridiculous thing the politicians want today. This isn't some whack job fake news conspiracy. This is the CDC's own data. Their own press releases. They tell you the truth right out there in the open and then gaslight you into believing you must be crazy for thinking it means exactly what it looks like it means.

    1. A quarter of women aged 15–49.

      They may be trying to steal your precious bodily fluids, but you're the only one that's mischaracterizing the facts.

      1. Substitute "a quarter of women aged 15-49" for "women" in n00bdragon's post, and the point still stands. Any comment on that, or did you just come for the nitpicking?

        1. I have no idea what % of 'women in the hospital with COVID' are 15-49, but that age range accounts for 75% of the population of all women. Based on the popularity of human reproduction, I would suspect that hospitalized pregnant women regularly outnumber women otherwise hospitalized with COVID.

          Unfortunately, I have personal knowledge of someone who was pregnant and fell into a coma after contracting COVID and they had to take the baby 3 months early. Both she and the baby are recovering. Her father and brother were hospitalized with COVID at the same time, but her husband, her kids, and her husband's sister were not. I am sure that means something and the scientists are all busily trying to figure it out and will get right back to us.

        2. It seems that women 50+ might account for some relevant measure of COVID patients.

      2. What he posted is called, "a statistically significant sample."

        The % of asymptomatic-positive admission rate across my system has increased from 20% in the Delta wave to 40% the past week, which where it usually sits during summertime lulls. And ICU-positive rates have increased about half as fast as M/S ones, also a stark departure from prior waves.

        In retrospect we've usually found that ~35% of the reported COVID hospitalizations are for non-COVID reasons. It takes a while for those figures to get finalized, but anecdotally it seems like that's going to get real wonky with this wave. Our concerns are mostly around staffing, and that's due to the now-completely-ineffective quarantine policies imposed from on high.

        1. " takes a while for those figures to get finalized,"

          Somewhat takes NO time for " them" to ignore them to create hysteria.

          Fuck Fauci

    2. That figured started about 22% and has since crept up to nearly 30% in total covid hospitalizations. That means for a while it had to be much MORE than 30% to drive the number up.

    3. Which is yet another confirmation that COVID numbers are simply people who test positive, and have no relation whatsoever as to why they're in the hospital.

      1. Tulpa, you're killing it. Sarc totally forgets his vehemently help positions from last week and shamelessly argues the talking point du jour just like this.

        Spot on.

        1. so, these Trolls cant even Copy/ paste without fucking it up.

          Yep, Democrats

        2. Sarcasmic has been quite consistent in making that observation all along.

  19. Unvaccinated people ordered to stay home or face jail time in Metropolitan Manila, Philippines

  20. Damn it's like we've been pointing this out forever. Nearly 30% of our covid hospitalizations are pregnant women. Do you think they are in the hospital WITH covid or BECAUSE OF covid?

    1. They are in the hospital because they are infected with a parasitic clump of cells ...

      1. They did not choose wisely?

      2. Sounds like they made their own decisions and can just die!

        Or is that just the baby? I get so confused.

    2. So I'm guessing the "pregnant women statistic proves the COVID numbers are lies" is a meme that is just now circulating on right-wing social media since two of you just posted very similar arguments on the same topic.

      1. Pretty safe assumption.

        1. Did you two even READ the link?

          1. Why do you think they just chalked it up to a right wing meme?

            So they don’t have to read it, while simultaneously declaring it false. That’s why when they claim they’re here for honest discussion, you know they’re lying.

        2. More deaths this year with a vaccine than last year without a vaccine. But you're right, just a meme.

          1. dace,
            1) the VoCs up to Omicon have had higher virulence that the original wild strain
            2) the US vax rate is not that high.

            1. Repeat that shibboleth, soy.

            2. It's a hell of a lot higher than it was in 2020.

      2. 3 different audits on covid death reports that you've had linked to you do. But again, you are willfully ignorant.

  21. Another factor in the "hospitalization" numbers is the people being briefly admitted for monoclonal antibody treatments. They're generally in the hospital for only about six hours but can still be counted as a "COVID hospitaliation".

    1. Every admittance into the hospital by someone who tests positive, regardless of why they are at the hospital, is counted as a "COVID related hospitalization" just as every corpse that tests positive, regardless of the cause of death, is counted as a "COVID related death."

      It's not a conspiracy. It's CDC policy. Look it up.

      1. "It's not a conspiracy. It's CDC policy."

        This changes everything.

        1. Well, it's not a crazy conspiracy theory anyway. Whether or not the policy is the result of some conspiracy is another question.

    2. They also count it for simply observation if you are asymptomatic but have asthma for example.

  22. They need to get the "pandemic" wrapped up very soon because many COVIDist office holders are facing primary challenges. They can't even wait until the general election.

    1. They will goose step back to climate change.

        1. Oops, you beat me to it!

      1. already happened.

        Thats the basis of the " fertilizer shortage" agenda.

        Fertilizers made from natural gas and NG causes climate change.

    2. Joe will issue an executive order that the unvaccinated, the vaccinated but not boostered, and anyone not following the science cannot be allowed to vote.

      1. He can't do that—the Dems can't win without 90% of the Black vote.

  23. It be like da flu, brudda.

  24. Sure he is - and it only took him a year and a half to catch up with the rest of the country.

  25. Fauci is an overpaid government hack dictator that hasn't been correct yet. Expect some sever disease to explode soon.
    Well yeah, I can see why Reason is praising him, Reason hasn't been right since they got TDS syndrome.

  26. They're just slapping you in the face now

    NEW - Flock of sheep forms a syringe to "promote vaccinations."


    1. You can barely turn a corner without bumping into someone who thinks he knows more about health than doctors. Something's wrong with the water in America.

      You can't be a scared little piss-pants about getting injected with something and then run to your nearest podcaster for his "special cocktail"! It doesn't make sense!

      1. The doctors seem to be getting to where everyone else was a year ago.

      2. Man the coordinated Rogan hate is real today.

        Whats wrong? Is it that he is massively more popular and trusted than the journos you jerk off to because they have smeared their own credibility over and over?

        Maybe you should ask yourself why people trust a podcaster that is a comedian/UFC commentator over official "top men" and the journos that suck them off. Sounds like if they did their jobs and werent lying shitweasels people wouldnt be so into a podcaster that just has open conversations (rather than being sprayed with a firehose of bullshit like your trusted sources do).


    1) This is a good spot to put some research showing how incredibly fabricated this administration is.

    Do you remember that massive PR push on how Biden was going to improve supply chains and the ports in California?

    Well, we did a review of actual results so far.
    13) The outcomes speak for themselves. Both the Port of Los Angeles and Port of Long Beach handled less cargo and fewer containers in the first full month of the “new expanded operations” than they did in the previous month when the expanded operations were announced.


    In the Before Times, pre-SARS, MERS, and COVID, we knew of four main types of coronavirus that caused human infection. Using then-modern techniques, scientists established that though one of the four dominated every year, last year’s bad cold from coronavirus gave you no predictable protection against this year’s model. Given that coronavirus causes up to a third of “common colds” each year, no wonder adults, no matter how buffed their immune system might be, still get two to three “colds” a year.

    Despite the coronavirus pedigree, many are already proclaiming (again) that the end of the pandemic is in sight. To prove their point, they are drawing a connection between the milder disease and the increasing immunity of the human herd provided by vaccine or by actual infection (or both). The concept is based on real science relating to the two main arms of human immunity: that provided by antibodies, which are first responders but not reliable variant to variant, and that provided by the slower-moving but more thorough T-cells that maintain substantial punch regardless of the variant du jour.

    It is a great and plausible story, but also smacks of a morality tale; a hard-fought battle has been won at tremendous cost, but redemption is just ahead. Somehow, the moral arc of the universe is assumed to bend towards pandemic control.

    Viruses—and especially coronaviruses and especially, especially the one that causes COVID-19—surely have no moral compass, however, and almost never proceed according to the playbook. Rather, they jump around inexplicably and without particular concern to the human consequences.

    More likely than a gratifying fade of the pandemic is an increasing burden of disease for anti-vaxxers. Whereas the rest of the world will have regular vaccination and the occasional infection to keep their immune systems primed and ready, anti-vaxxers will rely only on the much less frequent and equally imperfect infection-provoked immunity to see them through the next infection. And as we are seeing again with Omicron, the result is a rapidly divergent rate of serious disease and death between the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups. Though only an anecdote, it is memorable that the first death in the U.S. from Omicron is believed to have occurred in an unvaccinated man with a history of previous COVID-19 infection.

    The universal—and increasingly well-known—hazard posed by a large, recalcitrant pool of Never Vaxxers is its impact on public health, as millions of willingly unvaccinated persons move trillions of viral particles through their immune systems. Application of this massive and unpredictable evolutionary pressure may produce a doomsday variant this year, or a wimp; we cannot predict what comes next. The point is that the Never Vaxxers are supplying the virus with endless chances to break bad.

    My guess is that our current Groundhog Day of variants every four or five months will continue indefinitely. Sometimes, we will meet a seemingly mild one such as Omicron, and perhaps a very mild one like an old-school coronavirus. But given the uneven immunity against COVID-19 in the world’s 7.8 billion humans, all we know is that the pandemic will not go gentle into that good night.

    1. that was a pathetic attempt at sophistry to conceal your anti vaxxer hatred.

      Pathetic liar.

      90 some % of the population are unaffected, so anti vax is generally the correct stance.

      1. Lol

        You really gotta learn formatting, dude

        1. biteme asshole

    2. "we are seeing again with Omicron, the result is a rapidly divergent rate of serious disease and death between the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups."
      You had a pretty good story up to that point. Your claim run squarely into refutation by the South African experience with out 26% of the population fully (2 shots) vaccinated.
      Yet the reproduction rate of the virus is now less than 0.8, the case fatality rate has fallen from 1.3% to 0.3% and all in 4 weeks.

      1. And we should definitely listen to some idiot who is stupid enough to address me as if I were the author of that article.
        Well done, dumbass.

  29. And lying about lies.

    Getting a virus IS NOT INFECTION.

    Infection is the bodys RESPONSE TO a pathogen....not the pathogen itself.

    More LIES ON TOP OF LIES to keep hysteria going.

    Fuck Joe Biden and his little dog Fauci

    1. No. Getting a virus is an infection. You are infected.

      The body has responses to infections.

      1. its calked a Dictionary, not your opinion.

        1. dave.
          Grow up.
          If you get a virus,any virus, if you get a bacterium, any one, you are infected. Whether you get the disease caused by the virus or bacterium is another matter.
          A dictionary is not a medical text. Lose the worthless book.

          1. Did you learn all that from Dr. Joe Rogan, smart guy?

        2. And you are just wrong.
          Your ignorant statements and proclamations are not helping to dispel the notion that people questioning this stuff are stupid nutjobs.

      2. Omicron Cases Are Hitting Highs, But New Data Puts End in Sight

        Data suggest hospitalizations are now decoupled from case numbers, and the variant causes less severe disease.


  30. Politicians over-reacted to the virus because they had to be seen to be doing SOMETHING, and very publicly. The one thing they cannot abide is having thousands of people die and them having done nothing. Then they get blamed, and the entire masquerade was a cover your ass exercise so politicians could claim they weren't asleep at the wheel.

    That's why from the beginning I disregarded the advice from any political people - including Fauci and his minions - and looked at the statistics. Even with the numbers being inflated there was real concern. The excess deaths couldn't be faked. The suffering in ventilators couldn't be faked.

    A reasoned, measured response was called for. Guidance on distancing and yes, even masking (until it was shown ineffective), was reasonable. But forcing people to stay home was insane. The damage to the children and the economy is criminal.

    1. "hey had to be seen to be doing SOMETHING, and very publicly"

      Yes they did, and they did.

      They were misled by scientists who hyper focus on the small details- thats what they do.

      They focused on the small number of people affected bc theres nothing to study in the larger group who were unaffected.

      Problem is, opportunistic control freaks and liars like Biden and his little dog Fauci used the small numbers to project them on the majority who were not affected much.

      Thats " the curve" they were crying about. Magnified, it looks important.

      It wasnt for it was so small it wasnt visible in a Public context.

      Its made a trillion (?) dollars in profits.

      10 X Moderna stock price.

      AND...its all " FREE"???

      In a pigs eye....

  31. Incidental Covid19 hospitalization are still significant to the hospitals. They do not necessitate ventilation and other significant interventions. But they do require a higher level of care to minimize spread through a vulnerable population.

    An incidental Covid19 patient must be isolated. Staff attending the patient must take additional precautions to prevent their own exposure.

    So, there us stress to the medical system that must be recognized.

    1. And that stress we are seeing is significantly less than delta. Which we got through fine.

      This is a non issue.

  32. Bifen said hed eat Putin for lunch...just before he ate his applesauce.


  33. Thanks for all the numbers, Mr. Sullum. Yes, successful viruses mutate toward greater transmissibility and lesser virulence, so earlier variants were more deadly. What I find troubling is you did not mention the other glaring reason earlier variants were more deadly. Most of know that our government's guidance to stay home and do NOTHING while they worked diligently to censor and prevent the use of common therapeutics was a major factor in the number of lives lost.

  34. "But while hospitalizations are a better indicator of severe disease, those numbers also can be misleading, because they include relatively mild cases and people who tested positive for the coronavirus after they were admitted for different reasons."

    Except it's still important. Those people can spread the virus indoors and probably easier considering you go to a hospital if you're sick or more immune deficient at the time. That and it would be good to track the average length of stay. If a bed is taken up for weeks at a time, that's one less to just use for elective surgery or whatever.

    Case count has been overblown for a long time but keeping an eye on hospitalizations, especially with a far more infectious variant, is very important. I wouldn't be so quick to downplay them just because they *might* be minor, which you yourself are not even sure of.

  35. Uh oh, Fauci said something we agreed with! Well, actually, he didn't say enough about how the severity of hospital cases should be measured. Take that Fauci! What a commi fascist dictator. He's not breaking down hospital cases because he wants us all locked to a hospital bed!

  36. Tony Fauci is a bloated parasite and petty tyrant. Vote All Democrats Out.

  37. Rat Face Fauci killed a lot of people with his incompetence and corruption. Once the world sees him dangling from a rope we can, at last, have some peace.

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