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Coronavirus

The CDC's Director Implies That Face Masks Are More Effective Than Vaccines at Preventing COVID-19 Infection

Rochelle Walensky seems to be relying on a laboratory study that did not measure infection risk.

Jacob Sullum | 11.9.2021 7:00 PM

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Rochelle-Walensky-testifying-11-5-21-Newscom | Michael Brochstein/Zuma Press/Newscom
CDC Director Rochelle Walensky (Michael Brochstein/Zuma Press/Newscom)

Are face masks more effective than vaccination at preventing COVID-19 infection? That is the implication of a new public service announcement from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) featuring Rochelle Walensky, the agency's director.

"The evidence is clear," Walensky says in the 37-second video, which she posted on Twitter last Friday. "Masks can help prevent the spread of COVID-19 by reducing your chance of infection by more than 80 percent, whether it's an infection from the flu, from the coronavirus, or even just the common cold. In combination with other steps like getting your vaccination, hand washing, and keeping physical distance, wearing your mask is an important step you can take to keep us all healthy."

If wearing a mask reduced your risk of infection by "more than 80 percent," as Walensky seems to be saying, that safeguard would be amazingly effective. Such a risk reduction would be higher than the effectiveness rates found in several real-world studies of mRNA vaccines. In six studies conducted when the delta variant was dominant, vaccination was associated with infection reductions ranging from 54 percent to 85 percent. The effectiveness rate was 80 percent or less in five of those studies, although the reductions in symptomatic cases, severe disease, and hospitalization were bigger (an important point to keep in mind when assessing the benefits of vaccination).

What is the source of Walensky's startling claim that masks prevent infection better than vaccines do? I asked the CDC but have not heard back yet.* Judging from the CDC's summary of the evidence in favor of face masks, however, Walensky is relying on a laboratory study that was reported in the journal Science Advances in September 2020.

The researchers used a camera to record laser-illuminated respiratory droplets emitted by speakers who wore 14 kinds of face coverings, ranging from N95 respirators and surgical masks to bandanas and neck gaiters. The valveless N95 mask was 99.9 percent effective at retaining "droplet sizes larger than 0.5 μm" (the estimated detection limit), while the neck gaiter seemed worse than useless, apparently because it broke larger droplets into smaller ones. In between, three-layer surgical masks and several kinds of cloth masks reduced the number of droplets detected by more than 80 percent. Based on those results, the CDC's summary says "upwards of 80% blockage has been achieved in human experiments that have measured blocking of all respiratory droplets."

While that gloss is a bit misleading given the detection limit noted by the researchers, it is still a far cry from Walensky's assertion that masks "reduc[e] your chance of infection by more than 80 percent." It is fair to present this study as evidence that face masks can help reduce the risk of COVID-19 transmission. But Walensky is doing more than that: She is trying to quantify the real-world impact of masks based on a laboratory study that did not measure it.

There are several reasons to be wary of such conclusions, including the gap between stylized laboratory conditions and messy reality. In this study, one person wearing a mask spoke through a hole in a box. He recited the phrase "Stay healthy, people," but he did not cough, sneeze, shout, or sing. The masks were clean and worn properly, which is not always true in real life. And although the study found that the type of cloth mask had an important impact on its performance, Walensky's message implicitly assumes that everyone will choose the most effective models.

Worse, Walensky's ambiguous statement could be interpreted to mean that people who wear masks thereby reduce their own risk of catching COVID-19 by "more than 80 percent." Walensky reinforces that impression in her tweet, where she says "wearing a mask" will help you "stay healthy." The study, which looked at droplets emitted by mask wearers, provides no basis for such a claim.

At the same time, Walenksy's tweet seems to qualify her estimate, saying "masks can help reduce your chance of #COVID19 infection by more than 80%" (emphasis added). That could be true even if masks are much less effective than Walensky says in the video, assuming you are also vaccinated.

Given the gap between the study and Walensky's interpretation of it, she should have avoided the false precision of that "more than 80%" number altogether. You might think a public health official who has repeatedly caught flak for distorting COVID-19 research would have learned to be more careful when presenting scientific findings to the public. Walensky's mask hyperbole not only further undermines her credibility; it implicitly makes masking look superior to vaccination as a tool for avoiding COVID-19 and preventing its spread, which is hardly a message conducive to public health.

*Update, November 10: Today I received a reply from the CDC that did not cite any specific research to back up Walensky's claim. The email, which may or may not have involved an actual human, consisted of boilerplate advice about masks and links to several CDC publications, including the research summary that cites the Science Advances article.

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NEXT: A Cop Was Indicted for Homicide After Shooting a Fleeing Driver. He Still Got Qualified Immunity.

Jacob Sullum is a senior editor at Reason.

CoronavirusMasksVaccinesEpidemicsPublic HealthCDC
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  1. Moonrocks   4 years ago

    You dare question The Experts?

    1. MSimon   4 years ago

      Face mask injeclions will be required.

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    2. Don't look at me!   4 years ago

      Two weeks to flatten the curve.

      1. the phucko   3 years ago

        Theater is all it is. Without the consent visual of these diapers. Nobody would be "reminded" that they where in "great danger" from something that nobody actually sees in society. Humanity has never been so embarrassingly laughable. As ignorance is truly blissful to far to many.
        The Phucko Knows

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    4. bobbyj   3 years ago

      The analogy here is that a chain link fence can stop 80 percent of kids from getting through, but none of the mosquitoes that also carry disease...

      This is beyond ridiculous but not unexpected, and gives lots of ammo to those without evidence for face mask effectiveness (because there is little). Well, they're 80 percent effective now for those people. Wonderful.

    5. VendicarD   3 years ago

      Science is the creation of the devil, and science is devil worship.
      Give yourself to God.

      It is only through Obedience To God's Word, that you will truly be free.

    6. sCuLLeRcRUsHEr   3 years ago

      Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, phd and MD at Stanford sites plenty of evidence that’s masks due Didly and squat. The virus is aerosolized when someone sneezes according to Dr Jay. Masks do not stop this “cloud” which can persist for some time.

      I tend to agree with Dr Jay’s oponions. He’s one smart mofo. Plus a Hoover institute senior fellow.

  2. JesseAz   4 years ago

    I mean we have 18 months of data showing zero correlation with mask policy and infections. California is now 2x the rate of Florida. Germany who has rigid mask and vaccine requirements is exploding.

    But idiots like JFree will persist.

    1. Patriotic Guy   4 years ago

      Getting tired of humoring the bullshit that comes from idiots like him. It’s time they all go. There are plenty of places we can send them. I’m sure the communist government in Venezuela will be happy to take care of them.

      1. VendicarD   3 years ago

        We need to expel all of the communists and Luciferian scientists from God's Great America, and then separate the whites and the colors as God's Great Plan demands.

    2. Mockamodo   4 years ago

      I thought the biggest transmission risk was not through droplets but through aerosol, which is far too small for most masks to stop in either direction. These people change their minds more often than most people change underwear. Let's just be honest, they make up far more than they know.

      1. Set Us Up The Chipper   4 years ago

        It is through aerosols. One difference between invitro studies like that is they often don't apply to the masks in the wild operated by folks who are not versed nor particularly care about more technical mask protocols. The difference between a mask mandate and a careful mask wearer who follows all the protocols. The other key with aerosols is that they tend to stay aloft for up to weeks at a time. So even if your surgical mask mitigates much of the virus through the mask, the gaps on the sides are more than enough to flood a indoor area with virus that lasts for weeks.

        So far nobody has been able to find any sort of correlation between mask mandates and case rates.

        1. ElvisIsReal   4 years ago

          So far nobody has been able to find any sort of correlation between mask mandates and case rates.
          ---------
          Which just happens to corroborate everything we knew about masks before 2020.

          1. Set Us Up The Chipper   4 years ago

            yup with the added proviso that all the best data regarding mask effectiveness - prior to March 2020 - was reviewed by WHO and the CDC with both of them coming to the same conclusion...namely they were of little to no use. That is how we started. Fauci even said as much in one of the unredacted emails. Then without any real change to the known science, masks became mandatory.

            1. ElvisIsReal   4 years ago

              Mask rules had to possible reasonings:

              1) People were too scared to leave their homes, so the government decided to 'noble lie' and tell us that with masks you were safe.

              2) During the seasonal lows for a huge section of the country, mask mandates reminded everybody to BE SCARED!

              1. the phucko   3 years ago

                Theater is all it is. Without the consent visual of these diapers. Nobody would be "reminded" that they where in "great danger" from something that nobody actually sees in society. Humanity has never been so embarrassingly laughable. As ignorance is truly blissful to far to many.
                The Phucko Knows

        2. Quo Usque Tandem   4 years ago

          Right; according to Michael Osterholm [University of MN epidemiologist] if you can smell someone's cigarette smoke [through a mask], you are being exposed.

          An N-95, properly sized and worn, can prevent this; but the reality of mask wearers given what and how they wear them, is little more than a false sense of confidence.

          1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

            No. KN95 blocks about 40% of aerosols in the measurable scale of ~0.5 microns. Covid is 0.3 microns for reference.

            1. Quo Usque Tandem   4 years ago

              I can only say N 95s seem to work for those of us who work in health care and have regular and direct contact with COVID+ symptomatic patients.

              Of course they only work if they are the right size and you wear the fucker the correct way. And practice all other aspects of infection control.

              1. Salted Nuts   3 years ago

                And changed every 15-30 minutes... And venting air so the exhaled aerosols don't linger inside the building.

        3. Granite   4 years ago

          It’s not weeks - it’s hours. Fucking weeks are you kidding me?

          1. Quo Usque Tandem   4 years ago

            This is how hysteria starts...

            1. Don't look at me!   4 years ago

              And wiping down surfaces……

    3. Don Nico   4 years ago

      In Germany, the reproduction rate, Ro. rose above 1.0 after the vaccination %tage exceeded 40%. It is presently slightly above 1.0 despite 65% full vaccination and the case fatality rate has risen to ~0.8%.

      1. Granite   4 years ago

        I doubt Germany even cares.

    4. middlefinger   4 years ago

      None of this matters because the U.S. healthcare system is now promoting an end to meritocracy, free markets and property ownership. A beginning of health outcomes and Soviet land reform.

      If there’s no meritocracy then everyone’s a Doctor or surgeon. Walensky proves it. (And yes, the link is really the AMA)..
      https://www.ama-assn.org/system/files/ama-aamc-equity-guide.pdf

      1. middlefinger   4 years ago

        “Equal health outcomes”

    5. JohnZ   3 years ago

      Vermont, another masked up state also exploded.
      Meanwhile in Florida......

  3. Unicorn Abattoir   4 years ago

    "The CDC's Director"

    Stopped reading there. Did she resign in disgrace, or make a new, stupid pronouncement?

    1. Eeyore   4 years ago

      Pulling more science out of her ass.

      1. Don't look at me!   4 years ago

        This is what you get with chicks in charge.

        1. Earth Skeptic   4 years ago

          But she exudes Empathy.

          1. Set Us Up The Chipper   4 years ago

            I think she has the job because she has a perpetual worry face.

        2. Don Nico   4 years ago

          Just what we need, more sexist BS.

          1. 5.56   4 years ago

            Nuh, we really need more anti-racist BS.

            1. Granite   4 years ago

              Sounds like a job for the Mormons

      2. Unicorn Abattoir   4 years ago

        I could eat a box of Alpha-Bits and crap a better research paper.

        1. R Mac   4 years ago

          A million unicorns eat a million boxes of Alpha-Bits and crap them out.

          War and Peace.

        2. Quo Usque Tandem   4 years ago

          Don't forget the corn, for punctuation.

    2. Square = Circle   4 years ago

      Did she resign in disgrace, or make a new, stupid pronouncement?

      Alas, the second.

      Are we tired of all the competence, yet?

      1. MatthewSlyfield   4 years ago

        But no mean tweets...

    3. Number 2   4 years ago

      I am still waiting for the “impending doom” that she predicted last March.

      1. Spiff   3 years ago

        /me glances at his watch

    4. MSimon   4 years ago

      A new project. Face mask injeclions will be required.

  4. Don't look at me!   4 years ago

    Dangerous misinformation.

    1. MSimon   4 years ago

      Face mask injeclions are the solution.

      1. Granite   4 years ago

        Go away

  5. Kyle T   4 years ago

    So just providing more reasoning to those who do not want to be vaccinated, even if the interpretation of the statistics is incorrect.

    The CDC needs to get statisticians on staff to help the "experts" understand the statistical aspects of these studies. They keep screwing up the math.

    1. JFree   4 years ago

      Agree that they absolutely suck at interpreting data - or conducting studies. They seem to be able to collect data but that's it. Hell and even then they aren't really doing that very well either.

      They need a complete reorg from top to bottom - and stick it in an interstate compact where states themselves get the bully pulpit rather than the CDC having it.

      1. JesseAz   4 years ago

        ^irony

    2. Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf   4 years ago

      If one mask is 80% effective, two ought to be 96%, and three -- good golly miss molly, that's 99.2%! We could whup that bad boy so damned easy! Why didn't she tell us this earlier? Wouldn't have needed those damned vaccines!

      1. MSimon   4 years ago

        The problem will be fixed. Face mask injeclions will be required.

        1. Don't look at me!   4 years ago

          You should say that more often.

        2. Granite   4 years ago

          Kys

    3. mad.casual   4 years ago

      The CDC needs to get statisticians on staff to help the "experts" understand the statistical aspects of these studies. They keep screwing up the math.

      Disagree. Even statisticians (and arguably statistics itself) are bad predictions based on rare events and it sidesteps the ethical assumptions about even if you've got a sure bet, it's still wrong to steal someone else's money or cripple them in order to place it.

      Don't need a statistician to explain the math behind the fact that 100% of the people with plastic bags zip tied over their heads neither died of nor transmitted COVID. The only purpose the statistician would serve would be to run cover.

    4. Don Nico   4 years ago

      The people "screwing up with the math" are the laymen who understand neither statistics nor medicine, but who look to cherry-pick numbers to support their absurd political politics.

      1. Don't look at me!   4 years ago

        Something you would never do.

      2. Spiff   3 years ago

        Thank God you're here to school the laymen. I know I felt owned as soon as I read your post.

  6. bevis the lumberjack   4 years ago

    The thing about masks has been that whatever benefit there is accrues to the people around the mask wearer, not to the wearer themselves. The head of the fucking CDC needs to understand that. And be clear about it with the public.

    Is there anybody in this administration that demonstrates any competence at all?

    1. Don't look at me!   4 years ago

      Even at that rate, there is no proof of your claim.

    2. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

      No. It's an absolute daisy chain of sucking.

    3. Square = Circle   4 years ago

      Is there anybody in this administration that demonstrates any competence at all?

      The people who shield Biden from reporters?

    4. MatthewSlyfield   4 years ago

      The White House Janitor?

    5. Don Nico   4 years ago

      Bevis,
      What is clear from worldwide data is that vaccination level alone is insufficient to suppress viral transmission. THE single most effective measure to minimizing airborne transmission is distance in time and space between people. Anything that reduces the flow of aerosols also lowers the probability of transmission. That is basics physics and aerodynamics.

      1. Don't look at me!   4 years ago

        Anything that reduces the flow of aerosols..
        Too bad cloth face coverings can’t do that.

      2. Salted Nuts   3 years ago

        Like a plastic bag over the head? Because there is literally nothing but SCBA gear that will work adequately.

      3. Spiff   3 years ago

        Like any other coronavirus, this thing is endemic. Sure, you can mitigate it to a certain extent. But "common colds" spread, regardless. You'll just have to hide away from humanity if you don't want to catch this. For those who are exceedingly vulnerable to such illness, that might just be what they need to do.

  7. IWannaNewSock   4 years ago

    Cram it sister!

  8. nobody 2   4 years ago

    Is there _any_ point at which Sullum will finally admit that these people are obviously lying?

    1. Nobartium   4 years ago

      But how will he get invited to the best orgiescocktail parties of he prints that? Don't you care about JoUrNaLiSm?!

      1. Nardz   4 years ago

        You'd think the 100+ articles he wrote without a shred of integrity trying to sell the election as legitimate would suffice, yet he/his masters are never satiated.

    2. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

      Is there _any_ point at which Sullum will finally admit that these people are obviously lying?

      On the other hand...

    3. middlefinger   4 years ago

      No. Above, I linked the healthcare communist manifesto printed by the AMA, calling for an end to free markets and private property. But, NO, they’re not lying and they’re not communists.

  9. Earth Skeptic   4 years ago

    And the CDC cunts no longer even pretend to say intelligent things.

    1. Granite   4 years ago

      Ding ding ding! What have we got for him Jonny?

  10. Bruce Hayden   4 years ago

    As usual, they assumed droplet dispersal. Nope. It’s primarily aerosol dispersal. This is well known. The difference is better than an order of magnitude - the holes in a surgical ask are not that much larger than the droplets tested. But the holes in those masks are better than 10x the size of the aerosols that spread respiratory viruses like COVID-19.of course cloth masks are worse, and bandanas and neck gators close to worthless.

    1. Bruce Hayden   4 years ago

      Worse. There seems to be no correlation between the percentage of the population masking and the spread of the virus, in different locations. With her 70-80% claim, the correlation should be significant.

      1. Mockamodo   4 years ago

        There wouldn't be, because as he said the major transmission is through aerosol and not droplet. All a mask does is make your face wet wrapped in a wet face diaper, aerosols just waltz right on by. I was getting an eye exam and the doctor insisted I wear a paper mask she supplied me with, her equipment was literally dripping with exhalation that just blew around the mask which kept fogging up the lenses, now I have glasses I can't see out of and the next patient had to put his face on that equipment. This is obviously not about science.

        1. Don Nico   4 years ago

          "in a wet face diaper, aerosols just waltz right on by."
          That depends on whether your mask has a filter and what the porosity of the material is.
          Blanket pronouncements are meaningless.

          1. Bruce Hayden   4 years ago

            Except that the CDC Director said it didn’t really matter what type of mask you wore. And how many masks do you see in public with decent filters? Sure, theoretically, they might be beneficial, but they aren’t easily available, and are rarely worn out in public. It comes back to aerosolized COVID-19 virons are more than an order of magnitude smaller than the holes in the ubiquitous disposable surgical masks so commonly used, and several orders of magnitude smaller than most cloth masks, bandanas, and neck gaiters.

            1. Don't look at me!   4 years ago

              But if you mean well, and wish really hard, it just might work if you are pure of heart.

          2. AtTheMurph   3 years ago

            It also depends on how the mask is worn, how often it is changed and if the person wearing the masks constantly adjusts it sticking their fucking dirty hands all over their face 54 times and hour. Right?

            The wearing of any mask is not protective unless you are in a sterile environment AND proper protocols are followed. Didn't you learn that in med school?

      2. Bruce Hayden   4 years ago

        Also note - it is the state level data that her agency (CDC) publicizes and puts online that fails to correlate with percentage routinely masked in the various states.

    2. Quo Usque Tandem   4 years ago

      Correct, Osterholm describes this very well: essentially if you can smell cigarette smoke through a mask of other face covering, you are exposed; and yet the CDC continues on it's misleading track.

      https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/do-masks-provide-much-protection-we-think-bglhwy/

  11. Ken Shultz   4 years ago

    The accuracy of the CDC's claims isn't the issue. The government have no business forcing people to wear masks, censoring social media, locking down the economy, or mandating vaccines--even if the CDC's claims are perfectly accurate.

    1. Don't look at me!   4 years ago

      And they are not accurate.

    2. Overt   4 years ago

      Exactly this. If the science indeed says that wearing a mask protects others from getting infected, then GREAT! We should thank those who chose to wear a mask. But that is not the same as vilifying those who decline to mask. There are morally negative things- like actively choosing to harm people, morally positive things- like giving charity and protecting people from infection, and morally neutral things- like going through life avoiding doing negative AND positive things.

      Too many people want to turn morally neutral actions into negative actions (i.e. things you shouldn't do) and morally positive things into neutral actions (i.e. things you ought to do as the baseline). This is an example of moral confusion that permeates the entire left these days- but sadly, also has infected many lefty libertarians like JFree.

      1. Ken Shultz   4 years ago

        I'm not saying it's impossible for libertarian utilitarians to get there, but utilitarianism does not lend itself to libertarianism naturally. Rather, utilitarianism lends itself naturally to central planning and elitism. Thinking they know what's best for the most of us assumes they know best, which isn't a safe assumption at all. The offense to libertarian sensibilities is even more basic than that though. They believe their goals are qualitatively superior, and they don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to believing that.

        The failure to account for qualitative preferences has always been the Achilles heel of utilitarianism. They've tried to compensate for it from the very beginning, but they've always failed. The qualitative preferences of the CDC for safety over economic considerations or liberty has no authoritative basis whatsoever. It has the same authoritative basis as their preference for strawberry ice cream rather than butter pecan. We all have a PhD in our own qualitative preferences. Some of us go snowboarding, hike in the wilderness, or ride motorcycles--despite the danger--because it's fun.

        People who care about safety above all considerations have a psychological disorder. They may be delusional paranoids, or they may simply have agoraphobia. Regardless, they aren't healthy. Healthy people put their safety in jeopardy every time they walk out of the house or pull their car out of the driveway. If these experts' jobs are to be paranoid, well good for them! That doesn't mean we should make their paranoid obsessions our own. That means we should consider their opinions within the area of their expertise--through the lens of our own qualitative preferences.

        And that's making assumptions about their will to do us good. When they're being honest, progressives don't even claim to want to represent the conflicting qualitative preferences of 325 million Americans anymore. They just claim that their qualitative preferences are the only ones that matter. Meanwhile, the qualitative aspect of utility is actually maximized when each of us are free to pursue our own interests informed by our individual qualitative preferences.

        If the bureaucrats ever realized that the best thing for society was to get rid of the bureaucrats, they'd never let on. Meanwhile, progressives in the wild support the qualitative preferences of bureaucrats because 1) They want the government to shut down dissent against progressive policies that force people to do things progressives want, and 2) because they're genuinely ignorant and stupid. If they've ever heard of the appeal to authority fallacy, they don't think about it, or they don't understand what it means.

        They can say they like strawberry ice cream like the bureaucrats, but they can't defend the assumption that their qualitative preference for safety is more important than my qualitative preference for liberty and economic growth. So, they stupidly insist that we assume the qualitative preferences of bureaucrats--because they know what's best for us--assault democracy for fear that their opponents may get the upper hand on the bureaucrats, and ridicule anyone who, quite rationally, gives progressives and the bureaucrats the finger.

        1. Claptrap   4 years ago

          When they're being honest, progressives don't even claim to want to represent the conflicting qualitative preferences of 325 million Americans anymore. They just claim that their qualitative preferences are the only ones that matter.

          More often they claim that opponents' qualitative preferences are simply received from Fox News or talk radio, which always struck me as pure projection (the NPC label was immediately too perfect for gentry lefties).

          My wife and I recently had some conversation about campus intolerance where she expressed surprise because, "colleges are so liberal." I retorted that they're extremely left-wing and not liberal at all, and she reacted in such a way that nobody had ever pointed out a difference before. I think the progressives make a lot of hay out of that distinction being largely unknown/unacknowledged among traditional liberals like her.

          1. Zeb   4 years ago

            I've noticed that a lot of progressives are explicitly opposing liberalism.

          2. Ken Shultz   4 years ago

            "More often they claim that opponents' qualitative preferences are simply received from Fox News or talk radio, which always struck me as pure projection"

            They denigrate the qualitative preferences of 325 million Americans for being sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, or racist. Even our roads are racist! They dehumanize the American people by claiming their qualitative preferences have no business in a school board meeting, and the FBI's antiterrorism squad should focus on parents for opposing their local school boards. They denigrate the qualitative preferences of average Americans who care more about their family's standard of living than they do about the impact of climate change on polar bears. I could go on and on.

        2. Bill Godshall   4 years ago

          Very well stated Ken.

          Democrat politicians and their left wing media campaigners/propagandists delusionally believe that expanding the powers, regulations and financing of Big Brother is the ONLY way to improve society.

          In sharp contrast, libertarians (and other reasonable people) want limited government, lower taxes and greater freedom.

        3. middlefinger   4 years ago

          What’s going on is a lot more fucked up than basic preferences- utilitarianism always becomes Marxism (except in war). It’s Nozick’s population Utility Monster. If the state confiscates 200 million people’s stuff and redistributes and rations it to two or three billion people, the utility resides in the three billion. Who cares about the 200 million, the majority is happier.

      2. Zeb   4 years ago

        Well said (as usual).

      3. mad.casual   4 years ago

        We should thank those who chose to wear a mask.

        I was socially distancing before it was cool to socially distance. No one thanked me.

      4. Don Nico   4 years ago

        "But that is not the same as vilifying those who decline to mask. "
        Not exactly the same, but still morally reprehensible

        1. Don't look at me!   4 years ago

          Piss off.

        2. Irishman12   4 years ago

          '...but still morally reprehensible...'

          unless you can back up the notion that masks protect anybody, with undeniable accuracy, your statement is absolute bullshit...and extremely reprehensible on a moral level...

    3. Nardz   4 years ago

      Yet they're going to keep doing it, Ken.
      It's not like anyone's going to stop them.

    4. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

      Oh, check out "root of the issue" Ken here.

      If masks and vaccines and perpetual boosters reduce symptoms and slow infection spread, then they can be mandated, forever and ever, amen.

    5. Granite   4 years ago

      Wu is the issue

  12. CindyF   4 years ago

    And, I understand a doctor on CNN (I didn't watch it--I don't watch fake news) said that children should wear a mask for maybe two more years. How can anyone listen to these people anymore? They said, wear a mask, then things can soon return to normal. Next, get a vaccine, then you can ditch the mask and everything can return to normal. Now, it's get your four boosters AND wear a mask, but forget everything returning to normal.

    And all the sheep said "baa, baa" Yes sir, Yes ma'm, whatever you say. How ignorant has the people of this nation become?

    1. Ken Shultz   4 years ago

      "How can anyone listen to these people anymore?"

      Why did we give them so much power over us in the first place?

      1. Ken Shultz   4 years ago

        P.S. If they ever get around to taking "In God We Trust" off the currency, they should replace it with "Fear is the Mind-Killer".

        1. Overt   4 years ago

          No fuck that shit. Fear is the Mind Killer is a warning, Ken. These people would choose "If it only saves one life"

          1. Ajsloss   4 years ago

            "If it only saves one life"

            The governor here in Ohio is now in commercials imploring people to be organ donors. My thought is, why doesn't the government just start mandating organ donation? Think of all the lives that could be saved. The height of selfishness (aside from not wearing a face diaper) is a dead body taking all those wonderful organs to the grave. And we wouldn't even have to limit to dead bodies, the government could decide when people need to pass their organs onto the next person.

        2. Mockamodo   4 years ago

          I'm still pissed off that they replaced the meaningful phrase E Pluribus Unum with a slogan that is better suited to a baptist bumper sticker.

        3. Bill Godshall   4 years ago

          Despite zero evidence that any god(s) exist(s), during the 1950s cold war, theocrats/conservatives/Republicans mandated "In God We Trust" on all US currency.

          In their view (and many Americans today), anyone who doesn't believe in their "God" is unAmerican.

          1. Ratwrangler   4 years ago

            While it was Republicans that wanted "In God We Trust" on our currency, that was back in 1864 while they were working on freeing the slaves. It was not approved and placed on the currency until 1956, under a Democrat-majority House and Senate, and Eisenhower, a Republican President. Blaming the Republicans alone simply shows an ignorance of American history.

      2. Nardz   4 years ago

        Some of us have been screaming about not accepting their seizure of that power for almost two years. Yet here you are, having the exact same conversation now as then.

        1. DaveM   4 years ago

          Better late than ...

      3. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

        Around march of 2020.

      4. mad.casual   4 years ago

        Why did we give them so much power over us in the first place?

        We didn't. If we did, it's because "mowing the grass" is hard work and kinda conflicts with the NAP.

  13. Longtobefree   4 years ago

    And now for science: From the time period B.C. (before covid)
    1. "If you are sick," the CDC says, "you should wear a facemask when you are around other people (e.g., sharing a room or vehicle) and before you enter a healthcare provider's office." But "if you are NOT sick," it adds, "you do not need to wear a facemask unless you are caring for someone who is sick (and they are not able to wear a facemask).
    2. A randomized trial of face masks involving about 7,700 hajj participants in Mecca had less promising results. At the end of the study, which was reported in The Lancet last year, the subjects who received masks—most of whom used them intermittently or not at all—were just as likely to have viral respiratory infections as those who did not. Last year was 2019; most people in C19 panicked 2020 wear their mask intermittently, or just plain wrong like over their mouth only, or hanging around their neck.
    3. New England Journal of Medicine 5/21/2020
    We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.

    The CDC bit above was before politics; now this is the new gospel:
    Oddly enough, for the real flu;
    Unvaccinated Asymptomatic Persons, Including Those at High Risk for Influenza Complications
    No recommendation can be made at this time for mask use in the community by asymptomatic persons, including those at high risk for complications, to prevent exposure to influenza viruses
    But for the magical COVID;
    In light of this new evidence, CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies) especially in areas of significant community-based transmission.
    Cloth face coverings fashioned from household items or made at home from common materials at low cost can be used as an additional, voluntary public health measure.
    The cloth face coverings recommended are not surgical masks or N-95 respirators. Those are critical supplies that must continue to be reserved for healthcare workers and other medical first responders, as recommended by current CDC guidance.

    So "cloth face coverings" (note: not called masks) are a voluntary option where anti-social distancing is NOT feasible, per the CDC. Yet every fascist issuing an emergency order quotes them as REQUIRED.

    #believe all women - except this bitch

    1. West Texas   4 years ago

      " In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic."

      -------------------

      Whoever put that on the CDC website had better be looking over their shoulder. How DARE they accidentally tell the truth?

      1. mad.casual   4 years ago

        Whoever put that on the CDC website had better be looking over their shoulder. How DARE they accidentally tell the truth?

        What makes you think they haven't already been let go if not "Of COVID"ed?

  14. Cronut   4 years ago

    The CDC's Director is an hysterical idiot.

    1. MT-Man   4 years ago

      +1000

  15. Jerryskids   4 years ago

    In combination with other steps like getting your vaccination, hand washing, and keeping physical distance, wearing your mask is an important step you can take to keep us all healthy.

    Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs cereal is part of this complete nutritious breakfast!*

    *The complete nutritious breakfast is even more nutritious if you skip the Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs cereal, but we'll let that be our little secret.

    1. ElvisIsReal   4 years ago

      LOL that's the exact comparison I always think of!

    2. mad.casual   4 years ago

      It's not even that well-done. When Kellogg's says "part of a nutritious breakfast" they show a picture of a glass of milk, orange juice, eggs, and granola with the cereal front-and-center. She's not even wearing a mask and Go Brandon pulls down his mask to cough into his fist on national television.

  16. Chumby   4 years ago

    CDC says plastic bags are extremely effective. Trump and the Trumpsters say they are not.

    1. justme   4 years ago

      a plastic bag over walensky's head would be effective.

  17. Liberty Lover   4 years ago

    That implication also implies the vaccines are pretty worthless. Please get jabbed again!

  18. Mickey Rat   4 years ago

    So the director of the CDC is a Rocket Man? Does not understand science, though it's her job five days a week.

    1. Liberty Lover   3 years ago

      Not science, but "real science" which she defines is as whatever I say it is!

  19. Commenter_XY   4 years ago

    The sophistry of Rochelle Walensky is what creates distrust. She is trying to 'dumb down' this year-plus old study and badly mangled the translation. I would like to believe this was just badly phrased.

    But the behavior of the CDC (and other government agencies) lead me to conclude otherwise.

    1. Mickey Rat   4 years ago

      The most charitable explanation is that the people making the decisions about the CDC's official pronouncements is that they do not understand what the research study actually meant by its findings, which is still not a comforting thought.

      1. daveca   4 years ago

        OH NO COMPADRE. These people are highly educated ( scientists) or work closely with them.

        They know exactly the lies theyre telling.

        Deliberately lying.

        If they dont know about a particular point, they only need ASK someone in their own Agency.

    2. JFree   4 years ago

      They conflate the meanings of 'prevent infection'.

      Masks have always been part of the behaviors that reduce an RO from 5 or so (I think that's delta) to 1 or so. That is an 80% reduction in whatever you want to call that - maybe 'prevent exposure' or such. But 'masks' can't really be separated from distancing, hand washing, etc - and the masks only have value when they are worn correctly - in the situations where distancing isn't possible. The CDC is simply dead wrong to emphasize 'masking' as if that is THE prophylactic.

      The vaccine obviously has a completely different effect - and Sullum is the one conflating that meaning by trying to compare vaccine efficacy to masking efficacy.

      At this point, none of this shit surprises me. No one is even bothering to actually communicate anything to anyone who is not already in agreement with them.

      1. Don Nico   4 years ago

        JFree,
        I think that you have the story and the logic just right.

  20. DaveM   4 years ago

    The CDC has successfully inoculated the public from listening to them for sound medical advice. Or even sound common-sense advice.

    How to repair this damage to their reputation? Going hyper-accurate would be the best course of action. Pick a point they wish to make, narrow it down to a testable, falsifiable hypothesis, do actual observations and experiments to prove or disprove the hypothesis, and then present the results.

    In other words, follow the scientific method.

  21. Joe Friday   4 years ago

    Give it a f..king rest.

    Get your shot.

    Until the current Covid surge winds down, wear a mask in closed quarters and keep social distancing.

    They aren't selling you a '89 Yugo, they're giving you a free vaccine that is among modern wonders of science and trying to end the pandemic screwing with our lives and economy.

    DO YOUR PART!!

    1. Commenter_XY   4 years ago

      By one's freely made choice, yes = Get your shot
      By compulsion and not persuasion, NO! = medical apartheid

      This is the USA, not the USSR. We use reason and logic, not guns.

      1. Joe Friday   4 years ago

        Commenter, we have had mandates since George Washington and a 1905 SC ruling upheld them. We were not Soviet Russia then, nor are we now. Any sane society sensible enough to survive will require sacrifices for public health.

        1. Ajsloss   4 years ago

          "Any sane society sensible enough to survive will require sacrifices for public health."

          With zero intervention whatsoever, the world population would survive. Trying to turn a 99.99% survivable disease into an existential crisis is absurd.

        2. Sevo   4 years ago

          Fuck off and die, asshole Joe.

        3. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

          You're correct on the SC ruling, which cited Buck V. Bell, the government's right to sterilize a woman and/or force an abortion if the state saw fit. So think long and hard before you declare the SC the arbiter of morality.

        4. George   4 years ago

          Indeed, inoculation was necessary to win a war against an army that had decades of exposure our troops did not. Washington relied on his smallpox survivors until his recruits were inoculated and also relied on them for the inoculations. He DID NOT inoculate them.

      2. MT-Man   4 years ago

        Remember Joe the wise contractor said people need people to get the vaccine to feel safe and that it will stop the pandemic. Joe contractor here shrugs off stories like this https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/32593272/usc-cal-football-game-postponed-due-covid-19-cases-golden-bears where the team is 99% vaxxed and yet has like half the team coming down with covid. Joe where's you're wisdom now I'll wait so you can spew the same bs as biden and fraudensky oops meant walensky.

        1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

          He shrugs off international cases like that of Singapore, over 80% vaccinated with rising cases and deaths.

          1. JFree   4 years ago

            There is no need to 'shrug off' a place like Singapore because the data there is completely normal

            Over the last 28 days, of the 92,132 infected individuals, 98.7% had no or mild symptoms, 0.7% required oxygen supplementation in the general ward, 0.3% were in the ICU, and 0.2% has died.

            IOW, the case data resulting from testing is proving that vaccines WORK in preventing serious infections even when vax people get exposed to the virus (as is going to happen).

            Over the past 7 days, the number of fully vaccinated and non-fully vaccinated cases who are critically ill in the ICU are at 0.5 and 5.3 per 100,000 population respectively. Over the same period, the number of fully vaccinated and non-fully vaccinated cases who died are 0.1 and 1.0 per 100,000 population respectively. Among seniors aged 60 and above, the number of fully vaccinated and non-fully vaccinated cases who are critically ill in the ICU are 1.9 and 45.8 respectively. The number of fully vaccinated and non-fully vaccinated seniors who died are 0.4 and 9.5 respectively.

            Of that small group who DO have serious problems, they are overwhelmingly either unvax or old. So it is not the vax who are creating the problems/burden on hospitals. A burden which isn't significant anyway since ICU's are at 71% capacity.

            1. JFree   4 years ago

              Let me rephrase that second paragraph into efficacy terms. The vaccines have roughly 90% efficacy against an infection serious enough to cause ICU admission or death. For seniors with boosters, that is roughly 98% efficacy re ICU admission.

              So quit with your conspiracist bullshit about 40% efficacy or boosters every month or so. That's crap.

              1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

                JERUSALEM — Israel on Sunday introduced new rules for determining coronavirus vaccination status, making a booster shot a requirement for full inoculation and vaccination passports.

                After pioneering booster shots for everyone 12 and older, Israel is believed to be the first country to condition the validity of vaccination passports on having received a booster.

                The country said it would soon cancel the vaccination passports of more than a million people, mainly those who are eligible for, but have not yet received, a third vaccination shot.

                Israel (one of the most vaccinated countries on the globe) has been releasing a booster ~2 months as they're rolling out their 4th booster shot. And that's a liberal interpretation because they were talking about their 4th booster back in September.

                Your conspiracist bullshit has been to repeat every new set of guidances from the CDC or Fauci, then quietly moving on when those guidances turned out to be bullshit, lies or just flat out wrong.

                The rise of the Delta variant and breakthrough infections is partly to blame for the surge of infections. Singapore’s data shows that 52% of infections in the last month have been among the vaccinated while 48% have been unvaccinated.

                I would like to correct my previous statement about rising deaths. I was wrong about that. But breakthrough infections and cases ARE on the rise in Singapore, and that's with 80%+ vaccination rates.

                According to the article, Singapore is also having a problem with infected/positive people rushing the hospitals because, just like you, they've been successfully terrified into believing that COVID is a death sentence. This is something I've been trying to explore domestically but there doesn't seem to be any data on that.

                The point I'm making, and so far I have been proven right at every turn, is that the goalposts keep moving and we are nowhere near returning to normal, unless a completely arbitrary political decision out of fear of the electorate is made to "return to normal". There is absolutely nothing in the numbers which suggest we can't return to normal now, but Fauci lied about herd immunity, the CDC has lied about herd immunity and you keep carrying that lie.

                1. JFree   4 years ago

                  Israel is NOT one of the most vaccinated countries. They vaxxed early - but then stalled with their Israeli Arab (and to a much lesser degree the Haredi) population. That is the population that is having the delta problems. That is the population that Israel is now ignoring while they dick around with boosting 90 year olds.

                  to repeat every new set of guidances from the CDC or Fauci

                  I have NEVER repeated any guidance from either Fauci or CDC. NEVER. Data - yes - but not guidance. I NEVER cite the NYT because I am not registered there so I can never see anything they write (and don't trust it either).

                  But breakthrough infections and cases ARE on the rise in Singapore, and that's with 80%+ vaccination rates.

                  And as Singapore themselves says - 98.7% of those cases are no/mild symptoms. THAT is what vaccination does. Vaccination does not prevent positive test results. That is simply a consequence of exposure. Vaccination DOES prevent those positive test results from developing into more serious symptoms and (worse) hospitalization.

                  1. JFree   4 years ago

                    According to Johns Hopkins data, Israel is now the 43rd most vaccinated country. Singapore is 4th.

                  2. Salted Nuts   3 years ago

                    You know what else keeps you out of the hospital?

                    Saying no to that donut.

                  3. Spiff   3 years ago

                    You pick the data that suits you. We get it. See the Minnesota post from "justme" below. Incoming torpedo...

              2. Consensus_Denier   3 years ago

                Jfree does not understand what this "90% efficacy" means.
                math is hard, i guess.
                0.8% risk for all groups * .1 = 0.08% risk (at best) after injection. not worth the risk, i think.

                1. Spiff   3 years ago

                  Quiet, laymen! JFree and Don Nico will have none of your attempts to compare absolute risk to relative risk! Just repeat the "safe and effective" mantra while you rock back and forth nervously in the corner.

    2. Don't look at me!   4 years ago

      The vaccines are failing.

      1. Don Nico   4 years ago

        You don't know what failing means.
        The vaccines are not perfect, That is true. They will requires boosters to reinforce protection; also true.

        1. Don't look at me!   4 years ago

          That was not the original intent or design. Fail.

        2. Spiff   3 years ago

          They will require boosters to continue to raise the stakes on long term side-effects; also true.

    3. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

      Barbie Jack, I see you missed all the science explaining why your gods are full of shit again.

      You sound upsot. World not marching to the tune of your masters fast enough? Looking into the yawning abyss of midterms and seeing the end of your totalitarian experiment?

      Enjoy the ride, progshit.

    4. Claptrap   4 years ago

      Until the current Covid surge winds down

      Nationally, it started to wind down six weeks ago, and completed the process two weeks ago. These are local matters now, and really have been since the start. The CDC needs to get back to trying to convince us to ruin our steaks and our eggs, and fuck off out of our schools and businesses.

      wear a mask in closed quarters and keep social distancing.

      THE MAGIC WORDS TURN THE WINE INTO BLOOD!

      trying to end the pandemic screwing with our lives and economy.

      They are doing no such thing. They're trying to perpetuate a crisis so as not to lose the opportunity for greater control. "Pandemic" is officially a binary state: the admin could end it tomorrow with the stroke of a pen, a decision which would be quite popular, but that wouldn't serve their interests.

      1. MT-Man   4 years ago

        Clap spot on, but unfortunately folks like joe f really get off on living in a perpetual state of fear.

    5. Chumby   4 years ago

      No. Mind your own business.

    6. justme   4 years ago

      these injections are a total joke. we know wit certainty that they do not stop transmission or infections. so the tards then claimed "oh they prevent serious illness" -- except they dont. from a recent article: "But data released yesterday by the Minnesota Department of Health cast doubt on the effectiveness of the vaccines, even as to those who receive them. For the week ending November 8, 111 out of 168 newly announced “covid deaths”–66%–were among the fully vaccinated. Likewise, 347 out of 883 hospital admissions for covid (or with covid)–39%–were of the fully vaccinated. (Via Healthy Skeptic.) There is nothing unique about Minnesota, so I assume that these numbers are being replicated, more or less, elsewhere." source: https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2021/11/vax-you-part-two.php

      the injections, just like the obedience masks, serves no purpose other than to control the masses.

    7. mad.casual   4 years ago

      They aren't selling you a '89 Yugo

      They aren't selling me anything. They already took my money and are trying to force me to drive a $30K Tesla Model 3.

      1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

        That crashes and burns on autopilot.

        1. mad.casual   4 years ago

          Also, I don't know that I've ever seen a Tesla commercial and, while I know where the local dealerships are, I've never seen a road sign or billboard for one.

          Between the TV commercials, road signs, billboards, and flyers at grocery stores/pharmacies for the vaccines, I don't think I've ever seen a product advertised so heavily. Unquestionably true for one that people are "not selling".

    8. daveca   4 years ago

      getyour shot and blood clots too!

      Die from it or worse.

    9. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

      Until the current Covid surge winds down, wear a mask in closed quarters and keep social distancing.

      Even if you have your shot, and your booster.

    10. the phucko   3 years ago

      A free shot? Really now? Big Pharmaceutical is just giving them away? So because your a moron who likes to get jabbed with an mRNA shot..., the rest of the world needs to suffer with u? U r but another counted on fool who is wears his balls around his neck. Please explain to us all how a "gain of function" shot from hell does a thing to stop the Kungflu? Oh that's right... It makes your ordeal of catching and spreading this nonsense..., "less" of an ordeal. So how exactly do u qualify this on your grave stone? "It could've been worse". The good news for society is that morons like u and millions of your fellow brain dead sheeple... Will soon be gone. The culling has begun fool. The CDC is no more a government agency for the people then the Federal Reserve is a bank for the common folk. No one can get a patent on a single thing that acures naturally in nature. Yet the CDC has over 300 such patents on a Corona virus. Wake up fool. Your embarrassing humanity.
      The Phucko Knows

  22. steve sturm   4 years ago

    Question: does an X% reduction in the number of droplets translate to the same percentage reduction in risk of infection? For example, does someone who inhales 4X the number of particles than someone else 4X more likely to be infected?

    1. n00bdragon   4 years ago

      No, but that's not the point and has never been the point. It's not about stopping disease, it's about fighting that kultur-kampf. The reds are against masks so the blues need to make masks mandatory.

    2. Don't look at me!   4 years ago

      As explained above, it’s the vapor, not droplets. If you know anything about filter systems, you would know an old tee shirt is not going to stop a nanometer sized virus.

    3. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

      Yes and no. What you're looking at in virus transmission is infectious dose. This varies, ofc, but is fairly low for Covid. When the ID threshhold is reached, you will likely get sick, as enough viral particles have made contact and are statistically likely to cause infection.

      It's basically a conditional yes or no depending on which side of the ID range you got. Low dose very unlikely, high dose very likely.

      1. mad.casual   4 years ago

        When the ID threshhold is reached, you will likely get sick, as enough viral particles have made contact and are statistically likely to cause infection.

        So, rather than answering his question with an honest "I don't know." you chose to not answer with meaningless pseudo-science bullshit. Statistically speaking, most people would call you a dishonest asshole for doing that.

        At least some dumb assfuck who came up with some concept of a viral load fairy would at least be obliquely trying to assuage fears with their disinformation rather than straight up self-aggrandizing *and* misinforming.

        1. daveca   4 years ago

          moron. you were told a scientific answer.

          Too stupid to go verify it?

          Yes

          1. mad.casual   4 years ago

            OK, dumbass, time for your science to meet the road? What are the units of ID threshhold? IUs/cubic meter/hour? Too concrete for you?

            OK, maybe something more pragmatic? I'm an unvaccinated, 5'4" tall, 120 lb. female in my early 40s, what's my ID threshhold with a mask and without? Is it higher or lower than my 5'6", 95 lb., unvaccinated son's (with or without a mask)?

            Too specific? OK, pick your physiological parameters and give me the ID threshhold of COVID compared to the flu, measles, and, let's say, rabies?

            Because it's astounding how, for decades, we've known about these other diseases and how they've spread and suddenly, with less than 2 yrs. of COVID under our belts, we've had an explosion of armchair epidemiologists who manage to trot out the old stockbroker's "The market could go up, unless something unforeseen happens, then it could go down" trope, decorated with all the ID threshhold and viral load bells and whistles.

            1. Salted Nuts   3 years ago

              Infectious dose is ~100 particles which can be carried, aerosol borne, in 0.3micron particles. In tested Cymolgus monkeys, an average of 500 of said particles were exhaled per minute. Perfectly fitted KN95 masks may block ~40% of exhaled aerosols until saturation, usually in 15-30 minutes of use.

              Specific enough? I can be more generalized - masks don't work for shit and none of our lockdowns have done diddly for inadequate filtration and ventilation. Also, take some fucking Midol.

              1. mad.casual   3 years ago

                Infectious dose is ~100 particles

                So, at ~100 particles, you have a 100% chance of developing an infection? ~100 particles, is that 100 +/- 10? +/-50? +/-500? Is that 100 particles cumulative, as in two, 50 IU doses or half a 200 IU dose count, or no? Regardless of age?

                Is that using the same methodology/data as the study you present below where the researchers themselves state that prior data trying to link viral load (several logs larger numbers of IUs) to disease progression was inconclusive?

                I spent more than a decade trying to do single-copy genome detection in unprocessed patient samples. It's not my first time through the "I tested 10,000 samples with an undetectible number of copies/antigens and got 1 positive, ergo, detection." rodeo, on either the pro- or anti- detection side.

                Along those lines, not my first time through the "We can detect a single cancer cell!"/"That's great, but single cancer cells can already be detected, nobody treats single cancer cells because they're not indicative of disease, and, even if they were, cutting someone open for a single cell is impractical." ringer.

        2. Don Nico   4 years ago

          Your retort shows how little you are interested in the biologiy or medical facts about transmission. Also you can to is spew irrelevant nonsense.

          1. mad.casual   4 years ago

            You are absolutely right. That's why I started my response by calling him an asshole for, rather than honestly saying "I don't know.", using 'science' to lie.

            See I and just about anyone else who's had a beer to drink can do an off-the-cuff estimation of someone's BAC based on physiology and what kind of alcohol they're consuming. Sure, it varies from person to person and actual incapacitation is based on tolerance levels, but random schmuck No. 1 is able to give random schmuck No. 2 reasonable guesses based on a handful of inputs. Even retarded/incapacitated drunks have rules of thumb that allow them to do that math stoned. His response of "It depends on ID threshholds." doesn't even rise to that level and it's because the "science" that undergirds it is so abjectly shitty and hypothetical that only morons who believe anything that sounds even remotely epidemeiology-related will believe it.

        3. Salted Nuts   3 years ago

          Hm. Not a night for nuance, eh?

          Not sure why you're so butthurt, but these are fairly basic and established concepts... It's not a precise number because every human has different factors, but a mean for broad estimation.

          Univ. Of Cambridge has estimated ID at 100 particles. The CDC tested Cynomolgus monkeys and found they exhaled about 500 viral particles per minute, approximately 0.3 microns in size.

          1. mad.casual   3 years ago

            It's not a precise number because every human has different factors, but a mean for broad estimation.

            Broad estimation of what? Viral load? Prevalence of infection? Hospitalization? Death? We don't need estimates for things we can objectively measure first hand. We don't need estimates for the things we can't measure or behaviorally/procedurally affect.

            Absent those, it's an explicit violation of Occam's Razor;
            "With four paramters, I can fit an elephant, and with five I can make him wiggle his trunk." - von Neumann

            I can set up electrical detectors that will show a positive, quantifiable reaction to the number of angels on the head of a pin. Can't get the angels off and you can't do anything with them even if you did, but they're there, I can prove it.

            1. Salted Nuts   3 years ago

              Likelihood of infection, like I've been saying. ~100 particles is adequate for infection in most average cases. Again, there are differences because we are not clones. It is PROBABLE that dose will come in adequate contact with enough receptive cells to cause infection. Many previous illnesses of this family have shown an increase in onset speed correlating with high ID, less so with disease severity.

              This information, again, tells us it is easy to catch.

    4. Don Nico   4 years ago

      Maybe not 4x more likely but definitely more likely. No one ever said that the effects are linear over all ranges of exposure.

      1. mad.casual   4 years ago

        No one ever said that the effects are linear over all ranges of exposure.

        Yup. Many of the large-scale studies demonstrating masks "work" actually show an inverse relation to exposure. If you live in a modern, densely-populated, "Western" country, it's hard to demonstrate conclusively that masks work, but if you live in a rural vilage in Bangladesh, they work.

      2. Salted Nuts   3 years ago

        Likelihood of infection, like I've been saying. ~100 particles is adequate for infection in most average cases. Again, there are differences because we are not clones. It is PROBABLE that dose will come in adequate contact with enough receptive cells to cause infection. Many previous illnesses of this family have shown an increase in onset speed correlating with high ID, less so with disease severity.

        This information, again, tells us it is easy to catch.

        1. Salted Nuts   3 years ago

          Goddamnit, Reason boards.

  23. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   4 years ago

    As usual, Sullum is barely opining about the revelation of a lie that others have been screaming about for 18 months.

    What a journalist should be asking is why now? Why does the CDC issue such an idiotic and easily disproven statement now?

    Let's see, the second week of November is the beginning of the holiday travel season. This new CDC proclamation guarantees that air travelers will be forced to wear masks despite the plethora of actual science showing that airplanes are not hotbeds for transmission. Meanwhile, in the airports, masked people arrive hours early to sit in chairs that dozens if not hundreds of other people have sat in without being cleaned. COVID spreads and the government maintains its grip.

    People are tired of the theatre and act out at airports more and more. The FBI needs suspects for investigations into domestic terrorism to continue the rollout of the police state. The Alphabet agencies will stand together to make sure that enemy is revealed.

    1. ElvisIsReal   4 years ago

      It's simple -- government will control whatever they can. That means flights and your kids.

      1. John Gall   4 years ago

        The insidiousness, of it all.

    2. Minadin   4 years ago

      I believe the TSA extended the mask-wearing mandate in airports and on commercial flights through mid-January, sometime around the end up summer. August-September maybe? Also applies to train stations, passenger trains, bus stations, busses, etc.

      Why / how / if they have the authority to do that, I'm not sure. I am sure that they shouldn't.

  24. Spiritus Mundi   4 years ago

    20% of the remaining unblocked infectious particles can still cause COVID. If it only takes one, reducing the mist from 1 million virons to 200k will achive nothing.

    1. Zeb   4 years ago

      I think the number of virus particles is important to your chances of being infected. Any particular virus is very unlikely to cause an infection on its own. So the more you get, the more statistically likely it is that some will manage to get into your cells and reproduce enough to cause illness before your immune system can clear it out.

      1. mad.casual   4 years ago

        I think the number of virus particles is important to your chances of being infected.

        Rather literally angels on the head of a pin. Overall, the risk is less than 1%. You're far more likely to be killed by cancer, diabetes, or heart disease. A 1% reduction in your risk of any of those three diseases far outweighs an 80% reduction in your likelihood of dying of COVID. Moreover, with carryover/lurking variables/confounding effects, the risk reduction from heart disease, diabetes, and cancer *also* reduces your risk of dying of COVID.

        This is what I mean above when I say statisticians and even, potentially, statistics itself is abject shit at dealing with rare events.

        1. Zeb   4 years ago

          I'm just talking about a general understanding of how viral infections happen. Agree that it isn't terribly significant in judging one person's absolute level of risk.

          1. mad.casual   4 years ago

            I'm just talking about a general understanding of how viral infections happen.

            Disagree. You're regurgitating basic statistics out of context. Stand upwind from a nebulizer filled with COVID and the number of IUs doesn't matter.

            1. Zeb   4 years ago

              Yeah, but that's not how anyone gets it. People (as far as I can tell) get it from prolonged contact with people who have it. And the prolonged part of that is exactly because the number of IUs (that you come in contact with) matters. Obviously if the wind is blowing the other way it won't get on you.

              1. mad.casual   4 years ago

                And the prolonged part of that is exactly because the number of IUs (that you come in contact with) matters.

                Unless they're 6 yrs. old, then the number of IUs the accumulate doesn't really matter whatsoever. You could walk around a school for weeks at a time accumulating enough IUs to kill a dozen administrators and never develop an infection/the disease. Infection is a biological process, statistics describes states/States.

        2. Salted Nuts   3 years ago

          Infectious dose =/= disease outcome. The former is the average viral particle count required for an infection to occur. The latter is what happens as your body reacts to the infection.

          It is very easy to get Covid. You are very unlikely to die from it.

      2. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

        Correct. Higher initial infectious dose also correlates to more rapid onset and severity of symptoms. So far as I know, a precise ID threshold has not been determined, and several variants are more or less infectious, but like most flus, it appears to be a fairly low dose.

        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8045461/

        1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

          University of Cambridge estimates average ID at 100 particles.

          100 bits of 0.3micron-sized particles that can float in aerosols for days in a closed structure. We casually exhale millions per hour.

          Maybe 8 masks or so? Bubble suits? Or a reality check.

          1. mad.casual   3 years ago

            Or a reality check.

            You mean to say that your empirical data demonstrating 100 particles might need to reconcile with reality? Or do reality checks only apply to the science behind masks* and particulates and not more abstract notions of ID threshholds?

            *not an endorsement of masks.

        2. mad.casual   4 years ago

          It has been shown that some evolved MERS-coronaviruses can cause respiratory involvement with lower doses compared with the other MERS viruses [23]. Moreover, in influenza infection, the viral load is positively correlated to disease severity [24]. However, the only report examining the association between the load of SARS-CoV-2 and the severity of the disease, reports no significant correlation. This study focuses on the viral load in the disease course rather than the initial infecting dose [25]. However, there are some indications for the involvement of the initial infectious dose in the pathogenesis of COVID-19 [26]. It seems that this hypothesis could be confidently tested in animal models of COVID-19. In the case of humans, the main group proposed to be possibly infected with higher doses of SARS-CoV-2 are the healthcare workers. In Italy, the mortality rate among the SARS-CoV-2 positive healthcare workers was 0.014 while the mortality rate of other COVID-19 sufferers was 0.143 [27]. On the other hand, the mortality rate of Iranian healthcare workers infected with SARS-CoV-2 was higher than the other COVID-19 cases (0.135:0.077). However, these statistics might be not reliable regarding the different screening policies in various countries and considerable numbers of asymptomatic COVID-19 cases.

          Consider what the highlighted passage says in the larger context. Not just in the "Our data suggesting higher dose causes worse outcome totally isn't inconsistent with the data showing that infection rates/yields are unrelated to outcomes." sense, but also the "wear a mask until we get a vaccine" sense.

          This is precisely why I left science. Too many policy decisions based on "Tastes great vs. less filling" (unfortunately figurative) and "This time, homeopathy will work like I think it does, I swear!"

          I get that the above is exploratory research and needs to be done and I wouldn't deny that in specific contexts the notion of an ID threshhold has merit, but we are no longer talking about the days where the one Ph.D. or PI crawled out of his lab once a quarter to give a report to the suits. People who have explicit intent to exert control over others are reading this for whimsical metrics or rules by which to game the systems, all of them that they can get their hands on, are putting pen and phone to this bare hypothetical in real time.

          1. Salted Nuts   3 years ago

            The ID assessment has merit inasmuch as any risk assessment has merit; good to make informed decisions with.

            In the case of a disease with a very low ID, tiny size and high volume of transmissive particles in aerosolized form, we can make a pretty fair guess that masks and most of our filtration won't work, had our leaders any honesty.

            1. mad.casual   3 years ago

              The ID assessment has merit inasmuch as any risk assessment has merit; good to make informed decisions with.

              No, it doesn't. Risk assessments are objective and extrapolated directly from empirical statistics. IUs, especially in this context, aren't.

              It's like saying measuring blood iron levels to predict someone's likelihood of being struck by lightning is as good as any other risk assessment of their probability of being struck. It's not true. It makes biological sense, but you aren't making a biological argument, you're making a statistical one. It's the same spurious science that explains phlogiston, just far more complicated.

    2. Ajsloss   4 years ago

      "If the mask stops just one particle, it's worth a mandate." -Cuomo

  25. daveca   4 years ago

    She told SEVERAL LIES at once and they are ALL MAIN STREAM MEDIA TALKING POINTS.

    ""Masks can help prevent the spread of COVID-19 by reducing your chance of infection by more than 80 percent, whether it's an infection from the flu, from the coronavirus, or even just the common cold."

    " Can help" is irrelevant. Thats a line from a commercial advertisement." It also means " cant help." Vague. Deceptive.

    "Prevent" . Is contradicted by " can help" .
    Prevent is an absolute. Can is vague and non -absolute.

    The Big Lie: " spread of Covid 19."

    Covid 19 can not " spread." According to HER OWN AGENCY, Covid is NOT the virus, it is the LUNG DISEASE resulting from a persons immune system attacking a persons lungs. CDC says covid is SARS 2.

    The effects of a persons own immune system CAN NOT AFFECT OTHER PERSONS.

    CDC says Covid is SARS which is what theyre desperate to hide.

    "Reducing YOUR chance of infection"

    A virus is not an infection. A virus is a virus. Infection is the action of a persons internal systems REACTING TO some event, NOT THE EVENT ITSELF. Her lie is like saying we put matches on wood and the wood immediately caught fire.

    "80 percent" us contradicted by published research by CDC, NIH and others who docunent masks are ineffective against virii and water droplets carrying them, up to 95% INEFFECTIVE.

    Why are they so desperately lying?

    BECAUSE THIS ISNT COVID OR SARS ITS
    AIDS II.

    Whats the distinguishing mark of AIDS?

    IMMUNE SYSTEM FAILURE.

    1. Zeb   4 years ago

      Not really comparable to AIDS. With Covid, the immune system attacks the bodies cells that are infected. With AIDS, the immune system fails to do what it needs to to fight infections. Kind of opposite.

      1. mad.casual   4 years ago

        Agreed. Something Lupus, for many reasons, would be a better example, in context.

    2. Don Nico   4 years ago

      "Covid is NOT the virus, it is the LUNG DISEASE resulting from a persons immune system attacking a persons lungs"

      The cytokine storm is provoked (instigated by the virus). It is not that the person's body decides to commit suicide. If the infection initiated a myocardial infarction. The virus would still be the ultimate cause of death even if the proximate cause was the cardiac arrest.

  26. JohnZ   4 years ago

    No one should believe ANYTHING the government says. This especially goes for Walensky.
    And fauci

  27. ElvisIsReal   4 years ago

    The evidence is clear that masks do nothing at all. The virus is seasonal and nothing we do changes that.

  28. Dillinger   4 years ago

    lol all those people got vaxxed and all they had to do was wear moar maskz

  29. justme   4 years ago

    this woman is mentally retarded

    1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

      Not so fast. She surely overstated the 80% reduction, but it's entirely possible, if not likely that masks are more effective than the vaccines.

      The largest CDC study suggested that surgical masks specifically aren't effective at all in stopping influenza infection, both for source control and infection prevention of the wearer. But there are other laboratory studies which show that it might be 15-20% effective. At this point... that may be higher effectiveness than the vaccine.

      The important takeaway here is based on the read-between-the-lines message is... when will we go "back to normal" and if she's right, that masks are effective at preventing all infections including the flu, then we may never be unmasked. Are we willing to live that way?

      1. ElvisIsReal   4 years ago

        Studies that don't look at how real people wear masks in the real world are pointless. Just watch them out in public. They are CONSTANTLY fucking with the mask.

        1. mad.casual   4 years ago

          You're misreading the comment.

          2020 - Two Weeks to normal.
          2020 (two weeks later) - Masks to normal.
          2021 - Vaccine to normal.
          2021 (6 mos. several boosters later) - Masks to normal.

          You're arguing the facts about kicking the football with Lucy. We need to stop arguing, get Lucy to agree to hold the ball again, line things up, kick her square in the jaw, and then turn to Peppermint Patty and ask her if she thinks pulling the ball away is a good idea.

      2. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

        None of the studies measured aerosol particles the size of the Covid virus. Droplet tests.

    2. JohnZ   4 years ago

      Hiring the handicapped.

      1. daveca   4 years ago

        We do. Congress. Biden.

  30. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

    The CDC's Director Implies That Face Masks Are More Effective Than Vaccines at Preventing COVID-19 Infection

    Wait a second... this might actually be true.

    1. B G   4 years ago

      If the vaccines are 54 percent effective at preventing infection, that dwarfs the benefits of wearing a mask. According to the actual controlled studies around masks, especially the Danish one that was supposed to be the "gold standard" until it failed to support the conclusion that the "experts" wanted to sell, the difference in chance of infection for the wearer isn't statistically significant (most showed a fraction of a percent in this category of benefit), and the measured reduction in transmission was calculated to be around 20% for fabric masks.

      1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

        You assume the vaccines are 54% effective. At this point, that's starting to feel high to me.

        1. daveca   4 years ago

          54 pct effective in 90 pct of the population that dont need it..

          What a financial SCAM.

          CDC official data 1/2021 , 5 pct of the US population affected to need hospitalization.

          Hardly a pandemic

          1. Claptrap   4 years ago

            CDC official data 1/2021 , 5 pct of the US population affected to need hospitalization.

            Locally, the total number of hospital discharges is ~10% of the population in any given year, and total acute care capacity is ~0.2% of the total population. If 5% of the population is going to need to be hospitalized for one thing in one short period of time then it's a big fucking deal.

            1. Don't look at me!   4 years ago

              That hasn’t happened in the last 2 years.

              1. Claptrap   4 years ago

                Of course not. But to pooh-pooh 5% hospitalization (which is probably closer to twice the actual rate, but I digress) on something where the potential incidence in a given wave seems to be ~30% of a population is unserious.

                A COVID wave through a naive population is probably the max severity that our acute care infrastructure can handle without breaking down. And dealing with such a wave has consequences for that infrastructure.

                For god knows how long the impetus for providers thanks to pressure from payers (Gov't and especially private) has been to reduce the acute care infrastructure and push services and resources away from hospitals. There's good reason for that, but it might no longer be the best thing going forward.

                1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

                  which is probably closer to twice the actual rate, but I digress)

                  Not to nitpick, but 5% hospitalization rate is estimated to be >5x the actual rate. The actual rate is ~1-5%, probably being closer to 1%, and that's estimated to be high because of the unknown number of cases where no positive test or report was ever recorded.

                  It's why the "official" survival rate of covid is 98.2%, but you can safely say >99% because everyone knows it is.

                  1. JFree   3 years ago

                    There have been roughly 3 - 8 million hospitalizations for covid. The lower number being closer to the number of patients requiring hospitalization, the upper being closer to number of separate admissions.

                    If there have been 100 million cases, then 3 million would be 3% hospitalization rate and that seems like the right ballpark.

          2. Echospinner   4 years ago

            Third leading cause of death in the US. The only one of those due to infectious disease is hardly a pandemic.

            1. Salted Nuts   4 years ago

              With or of?

            2. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

              1. Heart disease

              2. COVID-19

              3. Cancer

              4. Accidents

              5. Stroke

              6. Chronic lower respiratory disease

              7. Alzheimer disease

              8. Diabetes

              9. Other diseases of the respiratory system

              10. Renal failure

              11. Suicide

              And everyone, including the CDC knows that this is bullshit, or at least requires a major asterisk.

              Let's compare it to some of the other causes of death.

              11. Suicide.

              If I shoot myself in the head, that will be the sole thing listed on the death certificate.

              If I'm Colin Powell, and I catch the coof, I'm going to have Cancer, Diabetes, COPD and whatever else he had going also listed on the death certificate. But if we isolate "COVID", then the following statement becomes true:

              1. 754,000 people have died of covid in the US
              2. Colin Powell, fully vaccinated, died of COVID

              The above statements are 100% true if we allow the "COVID is the second leading cause of death in the US" to remain true without further analysis.

            3. JohnZ   3 years ago

              In Chicago the leading cause of death is lead poisoning.

            4. mad.casual   3 years ago

              The only one of those due to infectious disease is hardly a pandemic.

              "Cancer, stroke, renal failure, and 'other respiratory disease' is never and can never be caused by infectious disease." - Echospinner

  31. B G   4 years ago

    Wearing a mask "can help reduce" your risk of getting infected in the same way that Froot Loops are "part of a complete breakfast" (when accompanied by a complete breakfast).

    1. Sevo   4 years ago

      And my Tiger Rock is very effective at keeping tigers away.

    2. daveca   4 years ago

      to a virus the holes in a mask are as big as holes in a Froot Loop.

      120 nM is on the order of a basketball to the size of the EARTH

  32. Sevo   4 years ago

    Article in the Chron this morning has "officials" forelock tugging over a rising WuFlu case rate: It has 'spiked' (really, they used THAT WORD) from 1.4 100th of 1% to 1.5 100th of 1%.
    Note these are simply a count of those diagnosed with the flu, NOT 'sick', NOT 'hospitalized', NOT 'IC-bed takers', NOT 'deaths', just hose tested positive.
    And WE allow assholes like that and the asshole Joe to tell us what to do?
    For shame!

  33. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

    Covid deaths, Nov 9, 2021:

    Deaths: 1678
    7 day average: 1251

    Nov 9, 2020:
    Deaths: 745
    7 day average: 1045

    1. Liberty Lover   3 years ago

      More COVID-19 deaths have already been reported in 2021 than in all of 2020 - Updated on: June 11, 2021 / 11:16 AM / CBS News
      cbsnews

  34. tylersdad   4 years ago

    If masks are more effective than the vaccine, then why is the vaccine mandate necessary? If masks actually work, then why are states with no mask mandate experiencing lower per capita infection rates than states WITH mask mandates?

    The level of idiocy or dishonesty (I can't tell which ) is astounding.

  35. Lady Dada   4 years ago

    The most alarming part is her reference to the flu and colds. Masks are fucking here to stay if people don’t stand up and say, “enough!”

    1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

      Masks, social distancing, vaccine boosters, periodic lockdowns...

    2. Quo Usque Tandem   4 years ago

      They might as well emblazon the masks with SCIENCE! and Team Blue.

      It's a morality play.

  36. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

    By the way, here's an example of how you can't win this debate. It's a head they win, tails you lose situation.

    Some on social media have suggested that the merged clips are proof that the CDC has been dishonest about vaccine efficacy. One individual who shared the clip via Twitter said: “The CDC keep changing their narrative to suit. It’s beyond ridiculous now and utterly irresponsible & unethical. They dig their own holes now! They can’t sustain the lie.” (here)

    However, the video lacks context. It compares comments made by Walensky prior to the rise of the Delta variant, which was first designated a variant of concern (VOC) in May 2021 by the World Health Organization (WHO), to her comments at a press briefing in August, with Delta the current dominant strain in the United States (here).

    The CDC director stated emphatically that the vaccine prevented you from getting sick, carrying the virus or spreading it.

    Reuters "fact check" carefully says that "well, yeah but that was before the Delta variant".

    Unfortunately for me, that bit of "context" doesn't change the fact that we were told that with the vaccine, you can neither get sick, nor spread the virus-- considering that everyone KNEW that we were going to get mutated variants.

    So what the means is if we yank that back INTO context, giving the Reuters "fact check" its due, then that means that the vaccine that we're currently getting is not going to allow us to return to normal- a fact that is playing out before our very eyes because it is the Delta variant that is currently "dominant".

    It's amazing how "fact checks" that supposedly debunk criticisms of our health officials essentially confirm the criticism while weaseling around and somehow re-establishing the new, new, new narrative that flies in the face of the old one.

    So the REAL "fact check is when someone claims "they never said that" the answer is:

    "yes they did, but reality cracked them in the forehead and they were forced to change their stance."

    That would be a factual, accurate portrayal of so many things our public officials have claimed.

    And you can apply this to so many things:

    This disease has a >99% survivability.

    Media fact check: No it doesn't, it has a 98.2% survivability, (but... we admit that because there are large #'s of unreported cases that the estimated survivability is much, much, much higher.)

    1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

      I have repeatedly questioned myself when I have said that public health officials are "lying".

      I think some of them are, I think some aren't, but are responding to changing conditions on the ground.

      Fauci is a liar, has repeatedly lied, admitted publicly that he has lied, and so he should be dismissed out of hand.

      But for other officials, their error is they've spoken with a certain confidence and assurance that has repeatedly suggested to the American public that X is an undisputed fact, and if you do Y then this will all be over. And that has repeatedly been (and continues to be) wrong.

      I understand that the vaccine was produced for the Alpha virus. But epidemiology knew that variants would be produced. So going back to "two weeks to flatten the curve", it's no wonder no public health official is trusted.

      At this point, I would actually appreciate it if they simply said, "We don't know when we'll get back to normal, vaccines aren't as effective as we said they were, but they do round the sharp corners of the disease, new variants may pop up which reduce the effectiveness of the vaccines we have, you may need boosters in perpetuity, masks don't really work that well, but they're visual reminders that we're all in this together..."

      That would be honest.

      1. Echospinner   4 years ago

        Well I agree with that.

        Around here normal is as close as we can get. We have fewer workers than we need and supply chain issues.

        In politics all such plans end up in politics.

      2. mad.casual   4 years ago

        At this point, I would actually appreciate it if they simply said, "We don't know when we'll get back to normal, vaccines aren't as effective as we said they were, but they do round the sharp corners of the disease, new variants may pop up which reduce the effectiveness of the vaccines we have, you may need boosters in perpetuity, masks don't really work that well, but they're visual reminders that we're all in this together..."

        I had this sentiment about the War On Terror during the Bush II campaign. /debbie downer

    2. Don't look at me!   4 years ago

      They cannot and will not admit they were wrong.

    3. ElvisIsReal   4 years ago

      Not to mention, the CDC had to walk that back TWO DAYS LATER, not months later when Delta showed up. THEY KNEW IT WAS A LIE WHEN THEY SAID IT ORIGINALLY!

      https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-vaccination-comments-director-rochelle-walensky-2021-4?op=1

      The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Thursday distanced itself from comments made by its director, Rochelle Walensky, who earlier in the week suggested that vaccinated people do not carry the COVID-19 virus.

      A CDC spokesperson told The New York Times that Walensky "spoke broadly" and that the evidence to support her claim "isn't clear."

      "It's possible that some people who are fully vaccinated could get Covid-19. The evidence isn't clear whether they can spread the virus to others. We are continuing to evaluate the evidence," the spokesperson added.

      1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

        See, this is why I love the internet.

        Reuters Fact check:

        Claim: CDC director claimed that vaccine would keep you from getting sick, can't carry or transmit virus.

        Ruling: Mostly false!

      2. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

        After pushback from the scientific community, the CDC told The New York Times she "spoke broadly."

        There's a joke in here about a female director of the CDC.

        1. mad.casual   4 years ago

          You mean 'joke' as in 'a farcically humorous comment' or 'joke' as in 'patriarchical white supremacist dogwhistle'?

          Trick question! Purge the CDC either way.

          1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

            You mean 'joke' as in 'a farcically humorous comment' or 'joke' as in 'patriarchical white supremacist dogwhistle'?

            Yes.

  37. spec24   4 years ago

    Why is anyone listening to these people? They don't know what the hell they're talking about, it's clear that they're lying, and who the hell are they to tell us what to do? F these totalitarian a-holes!!

  38. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

    The SS WaffenKarens are checking your papers.

    150 businesses in King County receive complaints over not complying with new COVID vaccine verification requirement

    King County has received complaints about 150 businesses as of last week that members of the public feel haven’t been complying with a new countywide policy requiring patrons to show proof of COVID-19 vaccination or a negative test, according to the county’s public health department.

    The new requirement went into effect about two weeks ago, and applies to bars and restaurants with indoor dining, gyms, theaters and museums in King County. The rule also applies to conferences and conventions, and any large outdoor gatherings with more than 500 people — though children under age 12 are exempt.

    The county has followed up with five of the 150 businesses where complaints were “particularly concerning,” Kate Cole, a spokesperson for Public Health – Seattle & King County, wrote in an email. She declined to give further information about the establishments.

    “We’re continuing to review complaints and follow-up with additional businesses,” Cole said, adding that the county was still early in the process.

    [...]

    While the vast majority of businesses have been complying with the requirement, some owners have mixed feelings about their new enforcement responsibilities.

    “We’re complying with everything we have to do, but at the same time, we have a business to operate and guests to serve,” said Josh Henderson, chef and owner of Burbs Burgers in Pioneer Square. “… We’re in the hospitality business, not the police business.”

    Henderson added that he wants to create a space where everyone feels welcome and is “not interested in making people feel like they’re an other.”

    [...]

    “It’s good because we’re trying to protect our employees and trying to protect clients,” he said. “But on the other hand, you have to deal with a lot of people” and “can lose regular customers.”

    Protect them from what?

    1. mad.casual   4 years ago

      The SS WaffenKarens

      There are several jokes about half-hinged females being designated 'Single-Screw'.

    2. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

      Is this expected to prevent infections or hospitalizations?
      Among King County residents ages 12 and up, 85% have received at least one vaccine dose, according to the public health department, leaving around 300,000 unvaccinated King County residents. Yet infection and hospitalization rates remain at dangerous levels, officials have noted.

      We can return to normal when we achieve 172% vaccination rate!

  39. edrebber   4 years ago

    Those who choose vaccination are like a prostitute who continually returns to their pimp, who in turn, uses them as an ashtray to extinguish a cigarette butt.

  40. Mujo67   4 years ago

    If the CDC were any less useless, it probably wouldn't qualify as a legitimate federal government agency.

  41. tommhan   4 years ago

    The sad thing is there are many that will believe this idiot.

  42. Alan@.4   4 years ago

    She might be right, but then one wonders as to the following. What sort of “masks” does she refer to?

    1. Consensus_Denier   3 years ago

      walenski is a compliant government bureaucrat that will repeat the lieas as instructed.
      masks don't work.
      the injection doesn't work.

  43. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

    Meanwhile, in Switzerland.

  44. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

    LA Times Video: Study shows dramatic decline in effectiveness of all three COVID-19 vaccines over time

    1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   4 years ago

      Summary: Moderna: 58% effective; Pfizer 45%; J&J 13% over measured period.

      So the obvious question might be: Oh, NOW you believe the Press, Diane!

      The opposite response might be: Oh, suddenly the press is full of shit!

      However, it appears that what the video is doing is prepping you for ongoing booster shots.

      "See, it's no longer effective some 7-10 months down the road. You need another booster... and you need it now!"

      People who keep screeching "Just get the shot!" need to clarify. If I already had the shot, do you mean get another shot?

  45. Mark W. Noonan   3 years ago

    WTF. There she goes AGAIN. Opening that big damned mouth of hers undermining the ever impossible task of getting more vaccinated.

  46. JohnZ   3 years ago

    It's all about control. Control over you, over me and over everyone.
    Walensky is a power drunk individual whose massive ego won't let her admit she is spewing rubbish. Like Fauci she is clinging desperately to her career so she can retire with a fat pension. Like all bureaucrats, their first job is to maintain their department to increase funding. Like every other department of the government they have given themselves massive power and over reach in some perverted belief they are gods above the rest of us.
    All it take is for a certain percentage of the people to say no and it all begins to crumble.
    And that's exactly what's happening.

  47. Kilgore Trout   3 years ago

    Anyone who thinks a cloth mask will stop a nanoscopic virus is truly an idiot.

  48. Uomo Del Ghiaccio   3 years ago

    2021 Minnesota Statutes CRIMES; EXPUNGEMENT; VICTIMS Chapter 609 Section 609.735

    609.735 CONCEALING IDENTITY.

    A person whose identity is concealed by the person in a public place by means of a robe, mask, or other disguise, unless based on religious beliefs, or incidental to amusement, entertainment, protection from weather, or medical treatment, is guilty of a misdemeanor.

  49. Jess Sain 2   3 years ago

    So wearing a tyvek suit with a full coverage face mask, gloves would be moe betta? Yeah...a society of clown suits because we let everything in from China. I know, wear the beekeeper outfits the Muzzies make all their wives wear.

  50. Bart   3 years ago

    Yet another instance of pushing a narrative instead of telling the public what these studies really say.

    Worse yet, public officials all across the country will use statements like this to defend implementing new mask mandates or extending existing ones.

  51. VISHYAT TECHNOLOGIES SEO INDIA   3 years ago

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  52. annaspa   3 years ago

    Nice article

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