The Kinks vs. the People in Grey
Happy 50th birthday to Muswell Hillbillies, a concept album about nostalgia, conformity, and the evils of urban renewal programs.

"My gran used to live in Islington in this really nice old house, and they moved her to a block of flats, and she hasn't got a bath now," the rock star told the reporter. "She's got a shower because there isn't room for a bath. And like she's 90 years old, she can't even get out of the chair let alone stand in the shower. They haven't taken that into consideration. And they knew she was going to move in because it's a new block and they took her around and showed her where she was gonna live and she didn't have any choice….The government people think they are taking them into a wonderful new world but it's just destroying people."
It was 1971. The Kinks had just released a new album, and the man who wrote and sang its songs was sitting down with Circus magazine to promote it. But explaining the L.P. apparently entailed talking about architecture. "It's just very disturbing," Ray Davies expounded, starting to sound like the Jane Jacobs of classic rock. "They're knocking down all the places in Holloway and Islington and moving all the people off to housing projects in new towns. They say the houses they're tearing down are old and decayed, but they're not really."
This wasn't your ordinary rock-interview fare. But Muswell Hillbillies, which turns 50 on November 24, wasn't an ordinary rock record. A concept album about the evils of urban renewal programs, it barely even gestured toward the pop mainstream, delving instead into country, blues, early jazz, and the British music-hall tradition. (On one track, the horn section reportedly played their instruments in a bathroom, the better to recapture the sound of an ancient recording session.) The songs' topics weren't your standard Top 40 fodder either, ranging from a Dixieland ditty about paranoid schizophrenia to an ode to the curative powers of tea. Small wonder that its sole single failed to crack Billboard's charts.
But some of us think it's the best goddamn album ever made.
The sleeve art establishes the setting before the music even begins to play. On the front: the band enjoying some beers at an old-fashioned English pub, surrounded by drinkers old and young. On the inside: an iron fence surrounding a leftover wartime bomb site in the middle of the city. And then, when the music actually starts, you hear a song cycle about a community of particular people in a particular place, all trying to keep a grip on their lives in the shadow of the era's enormous faceless institutions. Davies describes those characters with the same attentive detail that those planners failed to display when they gave a 90-year-old woman an apartment without a bathtub.
He sings about those planners too. In "Here Come the People in Grey," the authorities prepare to rip down the narrator's home: "The borough surveyor's used compulsory purchase to acquire my domain/They're gonna pull up the floors, they're gonna knock down the walls, they're gonna dig up the drains." The singer has a reverie of resistance: "We're gonna live in a tent, we're gonna pay no more rent….We're gonna buy me a gun to keep the policemen away." But that's just a daydream. "Some way, gonna beat those people in grey/But here come the people in grey to take me away."
It's a dystopian vision—but only to a point. There are cracks in this dystopia, little eruptions of color against the gray: eccentric neighbors, fussing relatives, familiar little traditions. The album's title alludes to Muswell Hill, the North London suburb where Davies lived as a boy, and its verses are filled with references to people and places he knew growing up.
It also refers periodically to places he only imagined as he was growing up. As they lived their lives in Muswell Hill, these Londoners' dreams kept drifting to America.
* * * * *
While Muswell Hillbillies was shipping to stores, America was listening to its own soundtrack. As the late 1960s melted into the early '70s, the great culture-war anthem on this side of the Atlantic was Merle Haggard's No. 1 country hit "Okie From Muskogee."
First released in 1969, the same year Vice President Spiro Agnew called on the "silent majority to stand up for its rights," the song seemed to draw a sharp line between Middle America and the counterculture. On one side, there was marijuana, LSD, draft card burners, swingers, long hair, hippies, San Francisco, beads, sandals, and campus rebels. On the other, there was chaste courtship, Old Glory, leather boots, football, respecting your elders, and maybe some moonshine when things got a little wild. The narrator put himself firmly in the second camp: "I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee/A place where even squares can have a ball."
Some critics have argued that the song was intended as a joke. I'm inclined to understand it as a dramatic monologue: "Okie" reports how one of those Middle Americans feels about the cultural changes around him, and whether you react by nodding or laughing is up to you. But in 1971, almost everyone read "Okie" as an anti-hippie jeremiad. That's certainly how Robert Palmer was invoking it in his New York Times review of the Kinks' album. When he got to the L.P.'s closing track, a country-rock yawp called "Muswell Hillbilly," Palmer declared that it "has the foot-stomping fervor of 'Okie From Muskogee,' but rather than aggravate existing conflicts, it stresses the unity of the disaffected young and society's older victims in the face of an interlocking power structure bent on the destruction of human dignity and, eventually, human life."
It's a shrewd comparison, and not just because the songs share a shit-kicking spirit and some musical DNA. With "Muswell Hillbilly," as with "Okie," it's best not to confuse the singer with the narrator. As you listen to it, ask yourself: Who's telling this story?
The first verse sets the scene, sketching a character in a manner that's both merciless and affectionate:
Well, I said good-bye to Rosie Rooke this morning
I'm gonna miss her bloodshot, alcoholic eyes
She wore her Sunday hat so she'd impress me
I'm gonna carry her memory til the day I die
That's all we hear about the alcoholic in the Sunday hat. (Rosie Rooke was, apparently, a real person: a friend of Davies' mother.) But in verse two, we learn a little more about the narrator:
They'll move me up to Muswell Hill tomorrow
Photographs and souvenirs are all I've got
They're gonna try and make me change my way of living
But they'll never make me something that I'm not
Note the preposition: They'll move him up to Muswell Hill. This isn't a song about being pulled away from the community where Davies grew up. It's about someone being resettled in that neighborhood, back before Davies was born.
Who's telling this story? Not the man singing it. But it's someone he knows. "My parents had grown up in Islington and Edmonston and had later moved out to the suburbs called Finchley, Highgate, Muswell Hill away from the inner city and the Victorian factories," Davies wrote in 1994's X-Ray: An Unauthorized Autobiography. "It must have been unrecognizable then."
In the same paragraph, Davies said the song was about "a family similar to my own." So maybe the narrator is one of his parents, or maybe it's simply someone a lot like his parents. It doesn't really matter which. It was not typical, in 1971, for a rocker to sing a verse from the POV of either his own parent or a parental stand-in, and it was even less typical for the parent to be the rebellious young star of the story. There's more generational unity here than Palmer probably realized.
There is another song from the period that pulls off a trick like that. It was sung by a man from California whose parents had moved there, during the Depression, from Oklahoma. It's written from the perspective of someone who is from Oklahoma, and the man who co-wrote and sang it has said it was inspired in part by people like his father—"proud people whose farms and homes were foreclosed by Eastern bankers. And who then got treated like dirt." The song is "Okie From Muskogee."
"Okie" still reflects a generation gap, or at least a culture gap; the narrator is full of complaints about hippies and student rebels. "Muswell" has none of that. As Palmer says, it damns a system that afflicts old and young alike. That system has already had a cameo in the song: It's the "They" who are uprooting the narrator and plotting to change his way of living.
We'll hear more about They in a bit. But first there's a chorus, and the chorus turns everything upside-down:
'Cause I'm a Muswell Hillbilly boy
But my heart lies in old West Virginia
Never seen New Orleans, Oklahoma, Tennessee
Still I dream of those Black Hills that I ain't never seen
Wait. What?
This isn't the United States that Haggard lived in and sang about. It's an imaginary American vista, a landscape that an Englishman might visualize while listening to a Haggard record. Our narrator is dreaming of something he never experienced but feels like he faintly remembers, a past he thinks he recognizes in garbled images of America.
The album prepared us for this with another song, the haunting "Oklahoma U.S.A.," about a woman who makes her neighborhood rounds lost in a Hollywood trance ("In her dreams she is far away/In Oklahoma, U.S.A./With Shirley Jones and Gordon McRea"). But the Muswell man's daze draws on more than just a single movie—it's a montage of fragmented impressions. West Virginia hillbillies, Oklahoma Okies, New Orleans jazzmen: together they seem to signify something old and authentic and free.
In fact, none of them (save those Black Hills) are as old as Muswell Hill, and the narrator is frank about how inauthentic his connection to them is. As for freedom: Davies was well aware that the sorts of bureaucrats that he decried in England had been tearing down homes in America too. He even recorded a song called "Mountain Woman," left off the original album but eventually attached to a CD reissue as a bonus track, in which a pair of bona fide hillbillies—not the Muswell kind—lose their land to the U.S. government, which floods it, builds a hydroelectric power station, and moves the couple to "the thirty-third floor of a man-made concrete mountain."
But in "Muswell Hillbilly," Davies isn't singing about the actual America across the ocean. He's singing about a dream. Oppressed, he dreams of freedom; uprooted, he dreams of roots.
That dream makes him defiant:
They're putting us in identical little boxes
No character, just uniformity
They're trying to build a computerized community
But they'll never make a zombie out of me
"They" are back in this verse, and their totalitarian intentions are becoming more clear. The narrator insists that They won't succeed. And on reflection, we know he's right, because we've been listening to a series of stories about the people of Muswell Hill, all persisting in their distinctive individuality.
The phrase "identical little boxes" calls to mind Malvina Reynolds' "Little Boxes," a rather smug song about suburban conformity ("little boxes made of ticky tacky…little boxes, all the same"). In 1960 and 1961, shortly before Reynolds wrote that song, the sociologist Herbert Gans interviewed dozens of people who had moved a few years earlier to a freshly built New Jersey suburb. He found more heterogeneity than the stereotypes of the time suggested; the town's residents, he wrote in his 1967 book The Levittowners, "made internal and external alterations in their Levitt house to reduce sameness and to place a personal stamp on their property." Character overcame uniformity, in Levittown and in Muswell Hill.
They'll try and make me study elocution
Because they say my accent isn't right
They can clear the slums as part of their solution
But they're never gonna kill my Cockney pride
We're back in Haggard territory here. "Listen to that line: 'I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee,'" Haggard told Nat Hentoff in 1980. "Nobody had ever said that before in a song." Okie pride and Cockney pride come together in the chorus, though the allusion to Oklahoma has been replaced by something else the second time around:
'Cause I'm a Muswell Hillbilly boy
But my heart lies in old West Virginia
Though my hills are not green, I've seen them in my dreams
Take me back to those Black Hills that I ain't never seen
On the album's first track, Davies invoked the ghost of William Blake: "What has become of the green pleasant fields of Jerusalem?" And in the final stanza of the L.P.'s final song, we find ourselves in Blakean territory again, dreaming of green hills among these dark Satanic Mills. But now the paradise to be erected is not Jerusalem; it's West Virginia and South Dakota. Kinks will not cease from mental fight, nor shall guitar sleep in their hands, til they have built America in England's green and pleasant land.
* * * * *
The reference to Blake's Jerusalem came in "20th Century Man," a song where Davies declares: "I was born in a welfare state, ruled by bureaucracy/Controlled by civil servants and people dressed in grey/Got no privacy, got no liberty/'Cause the 20th century people took it all away from me." Combine those lyrics, and you're evoking Clement Attlee, prime minister from 1945 to 1951, who not only built the British welfare state but did so promising a "New Jerusalem." And part of this New Jerusalem was the New Towns Act of 1946, which started the process of relocating Londoners from homes deemed substandard (or homes that had simply been bombed out) to planned communities outside the city limits.
That's what Muswell was reacting against, but what was it for? Davies' father voted for Attlee's Labour Party, and Ray Davies found himself voting Labour too, even after he began growing disillusioned with the party. He even voted for it after it became New Labour and adopted what Davies derided as "a seamless blend of polite socialism meshed into conservative policies and a dreaded political correctness." The party was "an outdated and somewhat ineffective force," he explained in his 2013 book Americana, but the Tories didn't have much appeal for him either, even if he "valued many traditional aspects of the past that are associated with conservatism."

There's a track on Muswell Hillbillies called "Uncle Son." (The title again conjures the idea of old and young uniting, though it was apparently named for one of Davies' actual uncles.) One of its verses recites a series of ideologies, then shifts gears and reminds the listener that some people don't have that sort of ideology: "Liberals dream of equal rights/Conservatives live in a world gone by/Socialists preach of a promised land/But old Uncle Son was an ordinary man." Change wasn't worthwhile, the song suggested, unless it kept the Uncle Sons in mind. "Bless you, Uncle Son/They won't forget you when the revolution comes."
Muswell eschews grand visions: Its politics are rebellious, even revolutionary, but it doesn't want a revolution that isn't built on real families and neighborhoods, on actual individuals and their concrete freedoms and attachments. Otherwise you end up with an alleged New Jerusalem that exiles a woman from her comfortable old home and moves her to a flat where she can't bathe.
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Fantastic piece, Mr. Walker.
They're putting us in identical little boxes
No character, just uniformity
They're trying to build a computerized community
But they'll never make a zombie out of me
"They" are back in this verse, and their totalitarian intentions are becoming more clear.
They're doing this to us metaphorically now--because of the pandemic, because of systemic racism, because of global warming, etc. But where have all the Merle Haggards and Ray Davies gone? Where do we find them? Are they rappers now? Can we find them accidentally on Spotify?
Slow down. Merle Haggard may be dead, but Ray Davies is still alive.
He wrote the best anti-union song ever: “Get Back in Line”
Cause when I see that union man walking down the street
He's the man who decides if I live or I die, if I starve, or I eat
Then he walks up to me and the sun begins to shine
Then he walks right past and I know that I've got to get back in the line
I was talking with a couple of people at work last week. We were doing our morning "Wake up the kids by blasting music through the house" routine, and as Mr Blue Sky filled their rooms, I was thinking about how this marked just about the end of a period when really innovative and amazing music would be in the main stream. Imagine someone pitching that song today- no one would take a chance on ELO- they'd pigeon hole along side They Might be Giants or Weird Al. And yet, in the 60s - 80s, we really had legitimate bands writing these concept albums, and giant concert tours in stadiums with songs about Godzilla and Joan Crawford rising from the grave.
It is not that similar artists aren't out there writing that stuff today. It's just that it is far easier to write a catchy, tonally less complex, emo song written by one of about a dozen song writers and put in front of your assorted edgy heart throb pop star. It is the fast replicating bacteria that crowds out the slower growing stuff.
I grew up with music of the 1960s, and one thing I really miss is the sheer variety of music on radio stations -- Jim Kweskin's Jug Band, Bob Dylan, Jefferson Airplane, that funky band from England, I think, who reproduced the singing-through-a-magaphone sound of Winchester Cathedral, Pet Clark, The Four Seasons ... all different, all mixed up. You could call up and get them to ply the full 18 minute Alice's Restaurant. I've long since given up finding any modern equivalent on a single channel.
There’s a broadcast TV station (Decades, I think) that plays old Ed Sullivan shows at 4 or 5 am.
The fun thing is besides the headliners, which can be anything from the Doors to Nat King Cole, they leave in the plate spinners, the Catskills comedians, Topo Gigio, and all the other “corny” stuff. I love corny (in small doses).
Yesss!!! Those plate spinners were my favorite, just because they showed up so often and were all the same. I never did understand that fad, when it started, why it started, why Ed Sullivan had so many of them, and if any still exist.
S'right!
Ed Sullivan was basically vaudeville, varied acts from high culture down, except Burlesque level. Most of his adults audience were old enough to have experienced it live on a stage
. On David Letterman's first late night show he had on some of the same type of acts but mainly to make fun of them.
BTW Ed played the same music for all these types of acts, jugglers, acrobats, etc. Maybe he owned the rights.
College radio dude. That's where I find good music that won't get mainstream recognition.
Not sure about that. The local indy, community supported station with the cool kids in my town has become a Gen-X nostalgia show. I think radio is a dead medium.
Radio was on its way to being a dead medium when I first started working in the industry in 1995. Even by then the computers were doing all the work and the DJ was optional.
Once worked at WKYY. Why? We fit four tracks in where you could previously only fit two!
Shouldn't that by WYKK?
Bear in mind that sarcasmic is a 50 year old arrested adolescent still hung up on Jon Stewart and hopelessly obsessed with a Linsday Lohan flick from 2004 who as recently as last year tried to lure Tulpa to the men's room of a Ministry concert for a liaison.
Lol. It’s funny because it’s true.
There are a couple of things that been lost in shuffle over the decades.
One of the driving forces of innovative popular music, going back to forever, was the desire for authenticity. It didn't matter the kind of music. You'd get some authentic roots stuff, maybe Hank Williams and the Carter Family, and it would get commodified to death, and then Billy Joe Shaver and George Jones would come along and push that aside with their authenticity. When the rock and roll of Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, and Chuck Berry gets commodified away by Pat Boone and the teen idols, the Kinks, the Sex Pistols, and the Ramones come along and give us a sense of authenticity again.
When Afrika Bambaataa and other artists that came up from the street changed, and they commodified it into stuff like Vanilla Ice, more authentic versions based on gangster rap emerged--with real gangsters. When metal became something so sanitized that your little sister was singing Bon Jovi songs at slumber parties, things like Slayer and Metallica emerged that were more authentic. Black Flag and Minor Threat were more authentic than the new wave they were playing on the radio. It was the same way with early Jazz recordings becoming Big Band, and provoking a more authentic jazz based in the form of Bebop.
That stress and strain between reaching a wide audience and an audience searching for something authentic seems to have broken down completely. I once saw Junior Brown respond to a question about why traditional country music had disappeared, and I think he was right when he answered that the audience for it had disappeared. I think that's what we're looking at with the death of authenticity. I don't think newer audiences really care about authenticity anymore.
I see two likely causes. For one, I'm sure it has something to do with internet culture. Everything about the internet seems to hate authenticity. On social media, things are important because they're liked by the most people--not because they're authentic. In the 1920s, people were scouring the countryside for authentic gospel, country, blues, etc. they could sell as sheet music--as well as record it to sell sheet music and the recordings to an audience that wanted it. Nowadays, people online seem to prefer anonymity to authenticity. It's just not something they care about enough to pay for it anymore.
That dovetails into the second thing that's killing the creation of new and interesting music, which is the collapse of the recording industry. The streaming services don't pay artists well at all, and the recording industry has to make money on selling merchandise associated with the artist--rather than the recordings. And when you look at the few places where there is still interesting music being made and played, it almost all seems to be happening in the metal scene. And a lot of that is because metal fans are still willing to shell out money for tickets, and they still buy full albums.
There are still artists like Yes, ELO, Jethro Tull, and Rush today, where the subjects of their songs are varied, the song structures are varied, the people in the band are virtuosos, and their audiences are as appreciative and open to experimentation as the fans of progressive rock were back in the day. But they aren't playing progressive rock anymore. They're playing progressive metal or some form or extreme metal. You might start with a band that meets your current tastes half way, and you may need to open your own mind to genres that maybe you weren't willing to consider before--or didn't really appreciate before.
This live (studio) performance has 56 million views:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQNtGoM3FVU
I think people are drawn to it because of the freakish and amazing abilities of the singer to transition back and forth between clean and soulful vs. extreme metal transitions. The artistry, the composition, the out of the box song structure, and maybe most importantly the inspiration are all present. If inspired, interesting, and authentic artistic music ever comes back in spite of the internet, it'll will probably reinvade pop culture from extreme metal. It's the only place where people still compensate artists by buying tickets to their shows en mass and buy their albums, and it's the only sizable audience I know of where fans still argue about authenticity.
*yawn* There's still plenty of "authentic" music out there, old man.
And of course sarcasmic didn't actually read what Ken wrote. But he hopes that maybe if he attacks Ken, Shrike and White Mike will go fishing with him.
Literally responded to the opposite of what Ken said. So fucking broken.
"*yawn* There's still plenty of "authentic" music out there, old man."
That is literally what Ken said....
Seems to me that this:
I think that's what we're looking at with the death of authenticity. I don't think newer audiences really care about authenticity anymore...Nowadays, people online seem to prefer anonymity to authenticity. It's just not something they care about enough to pay for it anymore.
Is a lot more significant than some ahoping and awishing about the authenticity future of headbanging metalheads in their 70's.
Except that’s not what he’s talking about. If you don’t like the genre that’s fine, it’s not for everyone. But there are a lot of newer bands that are making interesting, original rock music.
I started going to the big rock festivals in my early 30’s, and am now in my early 40’s, and the medium age has always been younger than me.
There’s people making it mixed with all sorts of other genres, and as Mother’s pointed out below there’s a band from Mongolia that mixes in traditional Mongolian stringed instruments.
There’s even a Native American metal scene that’s got some cool shit going on.
I agree that good 'authentic' music will always be made. It won't necessarily be rock but if it is rock then whoever is discovering that will be young. Older folks can tune their ears for new sounds in other genres. Most likely genres that they never heard when young.
But imo, anyone making a statement about whether rock is still good needs to first identify their opinion of the best debut (or second) rock album release from this year. Hard to keep up with what is actually new.
Do you ever feel just a little bit silly calling someone else an old man when you're still making pop culture references from the early 2000s and attending Ministry concerts between colonoscopies you pathetic middle aged loser prick?
Do you ever listen to The HU, Ken?
What's your opinion on them?
Dee actually posted something worthwhile! Put it on your calendars!
Oops, wrong name. Makes more sense this way. Needed another cup of coffee.
I think it's great when innovative stuff gets out into the world--whether it's up my alley or not.
I pretty much hated glam metal. I still can't make myself listen to the soft rock of the 1970s.
I'm not talkin' 'bout movin' in.
And I don't wanna change your life
But there's a warm wind blowin' the stars around
And I'd really love to see you tonight
Apart from that, there isn't any music I don't like because of its genre, and there isn't any music I like because of its genre.
There's some great folk metal out there.
You're allowed to be wrong about Paul Davis.
I've tried real hard, but I've always found it difficult to appreciate free-form jazz.
Eastern European street jazz has emotion. Usually performed by Roma. Not sure I’d call it free form per se but it has colors that music hall performances lack. Some of the available online performances with a tambal (cimbalon) are epic though maybe jazz-adjacent.
I always thought that song said: "I'm not talkin' 'bout Millennium" and thought he was talking about The Millennium Falcon</i. 🙂
By the way, you know who else talked about a Millennium?...
I'm not talkin' bout the lemons.
If it is too soft, it ain't "rock." Do ED&JFC qualify? 🙂
On the one hand, the Kinks gave us You Really Got Me an ur-hard rock track. OTOH, Ray and the boys put out Muswell and before that, 1968's The Kinks Are the Village Green Preservation Society
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/kinks-interview-ray-davies-dave-davies-village-green-preservation-society-747379/
When I listened to Andy Partridge and XTC or Squeeze I heard echoes of the Kinks, and loved it!
Authenticity was always kinda iffy, and often not all that authentic. Early country music was a grab bag of songs that were everything from centuries old to written by Tin Pan Alley songwriters, all presented as equally “authentic”.
Most people throughout their lives listen to the same music that was popular when they were in high school. And when they get to Ken's age they think that music is authentic and everything that came after is crap.
Reminder again that sarcasmic unironically listens to Ministry in his 50s and thinks he's a hep cat because he watched Betty White on SNL.
Meanwhile, studies have shown that modern pop music is objectively less complex and more homogeneous
And pop music lyrics are getting dumber
Again, literally the opposite of what Ken said.
Ol' sarcasmic, he don't read real good.
Almost by definition - it ain't authentic when record companies are marketing it to the demographic (teens and twenties) desired by advertisers.
Agreed. Before Covid me and a group of friends would go to one of the big multi-day rock festivals every year. We’d pick the concert based on the headliners we liked, but then in the months leading up to the show we’d go to YouTube and listen to all the bands lower in the lineup that we’d never heard of before. We’d always find several new bands that we’d like.
Youre missing a lot of what old music was actually accused of. It wasn't all authentic. For example rolling stones have been accused of stealing music for 50 years, in fact it was extremely common with the British bands who openly stole from each other.
Likewise presley, jack turner, Allen Brothers and others. It can't be authentic when recording studios lifted and paid for massive tours for preferred artists which happened constantly on the old music era.
The music industry has always been the same where the industry had a large say who was popularized even in the face of stolen songs. Song writers being some of the most stolen in history for little money.
It has gotten better with the advent of pandora, internet, etc. Artists can get their crap out on their own now. That was not so in the old distribution era.
"It wasn't all authentic."
No, it wasn't, and the Rolling Stones became a cover band of themselves sometimes in the mid 1980s. I've seen cover bands of the Rolling Stones that are more authentic than the real Rolling Stones--because they still find those songs inspiring when they play them. I'm using authentic in a certain sense. Reasonable people can argue about what authentic means, what selling out means, and what the opposite of selling out (buying in) means.
When Zeppelin is covering some Mississippi delta blues artist from the 1920s, with all the heart, soul, and enthusiasm they can muster, they're being authentic--just like some of those Mississippi delta blues artists did when they ripped each other's riffs and lyrics off. (Some of them reportedly played with their backs to the crowd so that their fellow blues players couldn't steal their riffs). And what makes those Zeppelin songs authentic isn't that the old players used to rip each other off, too. It's the heart and soul they put into that music because they genuinely, truly love it. When they play now, they don't play that stuff the same way anymore. Good for them!
When Sublime was mixing punk rock and ska, they were an authentic expression of what kids on the street were listening to in Long Beach, San Pedro, Redondo Beach, Torrance, and Hermosa--and had been listening to in the surfer/skater culture all up and down the coast of California since the early 1980s. They were playing what was in their own hearts with authenticity--even if the songs were written by someone else. And the fans responded to that. They loved those Specials and Bad Religion songs, too.
The Clash was authentic when they were covering I Fought the Law. When the Clash recorded Career Opportunities, they were unemployed squatters. If they'd kept playing it when they were millionaires, that would have taken away from their authenticity. That doesn't mean another struggling band couldn't play it with absolute authenticity. So, yeah, "authenticity" means different things to different people, and it's hard to define. Honest people can argue about the "authenticity" of anything. The same can be said of words like "freedom", "love" and "happiness"--other things that people think are extremely important.
Yes some bands were authentic in that sense. I would also use beastie boys on that since. They truly loved the style of music despite initial industry mockery.
But that authenticity to me seems to be present in the minority of well known work the last 100 years.
This "authenticity" claim is on a par with golden oldies having so much good music while modern music is full of crap factory music. The crap stuff that came out at the same time as the golden oldies has been forgotten; that's why there is such a high proportion of "good" golden oldies. Listen to modern music streams and you hear all the crap that won't be remembered in a year, let alone 50 years.
Authenticity is just another name for the same blame game.
If you don't understand the difference between outlaw country and the Nashville sound, what was different between Poison and Nirvana, what was different between disco and the Sex Pistols, what was different between Madonna rapping in Vogue and N.W.A.'s Straight Outta Compton, what was different between Little Richard and Pat Boone . . .
Watch this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBzzlUIEWHA
That is a total, complete, lack of authenticity. Authenticity follows in the video below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ-U2kGDHSI
Hell, the colorized, movie version is more authentic than Pat Boone's live performance!
You are using "authentic" to label copycats, second raters who don't have original tunes. It's too subjective, and just like my "factory" usage, there's a continuum. It's not black and white. Elvis was more "authentic" than Pat Boone, less than the blues musicians he and his handlers copied. Were the blues musicians who copied each other unauthentic, and to what degree?
You may as well apply it to all sorts of goods -- quilts, ceramic dishes, cars. People who could afford custom cars turned up their noses at VW Beatles and Model Ts, who in turn looked down on Escorts and Corollas, who looked down on Yugos and Trabants.
"So, yeah, "authenticity" means different things to different people, and it's hard to define. Honest people can argue about the "authenticity" of anything. The same can be said of words like "freedom", "love" and "happiness"--other things that people think are extremely important."
----Ken Shultz
Actually, I also pointed out that when Zeppelin covers something they love and play because it inspires them, they're being more than sufficiently authentic. I also pointed out that when the Stones play their own songs in an uninspired way for the ten thousandth time, they're less authentic than a Stones' cover band that still finds those songs inspiring. Whatever your definition of authenticity is, it doesn't appear to be subjective enough.
The meaning of "love", "happiness", "beauty", and "freedom" are highly subjective, too--and just because different people define them differently doesn't mean that they aren't real, aren't important, or don't make a difference. "Authenticity" is like that, too, and it's been a driving force in all kinds of American popular music since before recordings became important, and sheet music companies went out scouring rural America for authentic songs.
"Yes some bands were authentic in that sense. I would also use beastie boys on that since. They truly loved the style of music despite initial industry mockery.
But that authenticity to me seems to be present in the minority of well known work the last 100 years."
It's true that the industry is driven by the authenticity--and most of what the music industry tries to do is promote inauthentic substitutes. Nirvana really did ruin the record industry for a while. It was like people stopped thinking Poison was cool overnight. They started out calling it "alternative" music, but then so many overproduced grunge clones came out, and it was like, "the alternative to what"? There was a big change for a while. And then it just became formulaic again. The bands that really pioneered Nirvana's style (bands like Husker Du) never really got any big time recognition at all.
The stress and strain between authenticity and mass appeal is like the cycle of creative destruction. Something new and authentic shows up, and suddenly all the work they put into disco or hair metal isn't just passe. For a while, no one wants to admit they were ever associated with it. The worst thing about Leisure Suit Larry is that he's a phony, right? Everything about him is inauthentic--including his toupe.
You should have seen the early 80s, when John Travolta's Urban Cowboy came out. Normal people on the eastern seaboard were buying cowboy clothes at Miller's Outpost, listening to Waylon Jennings, and wearing belts with gigantic turquoise buckles. That spelled the end of outlaw country in the mainstream. That's when going new wave became authentic. But there were always people at the grassroots doing really creative, truly authentic stuff.
Ian MacKaye was so authentic, his music started a movement--over his objections. John Macias (Circle One) went down in a hail of police gunfire. Whatever the fuck GG Allin was doing, he was striving for authenticity. Mayhem members were going around burning churches and putting the pictures on the covers of their albums. Billy Joe Shaver shot a guy, and David Allan Coe got started with music under the encouragement of Screamin' Jay Hawkins while they were both in prison.
It's hard to imagine today's audiences seeking this stuff out, or new trends emerging because of their authenticity. You just don't connect with music audiences like that anymore. I don't think some of them know the artists they're listening to on Spotify--and they don't care. It's like tomb art from ancient Rome--back when no one signed the art because no one really cared who the artist was. They didn't really care about the art the way we do. And I think that's what music is to most millennials. It's something to listen to while you're driving to work. It's not something you're supposed to care about anymore.
This really is just silly. The audience for original sounds in music has always been younguns. The best phrasing of that that I've heard is: The music that you hear before age 13 is always your parents music. The music that you hear from 14-30 is always your music. After age 30 you don't listen to much that's new but to memories of what you once listened to.
There is no such thing as an authentic rock musician who's old enough to have teenage kids.
"There is no such thing as an authentic rock musician who's old enough to have teenage kids."
I wasn't just talking about rock. I was also talking about authentic country, authentic jazz, authentic rap, authentic folk music, etc.
The push/pull between authenticity and mass appeal has been the force that pushes American music--of all kinds--forward since American music became an industry, going back to when it was all about selling sheet music to Americans entertaining themselves around a piano at home before the advent of records and radio.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parlour_music
You can see the influence of people of African ancestry on American music from its beginnings in sheet music. People who say Pat Boone covering Little Richard amounts to a minstrel show, most of them don't realize how accurate they are. The hallmark of American music is call and response (which has roots in African music), which was especially exemplified in African-American gospel music at the time--and in slave work songs before the end of the Civil War.
Twelve-bar blues, which is the foundation of rock and roll, jazz, and country music, takes call and response as its foundation. In traditional twelve-bar blues, the first stanza is always repeated twice. The first is an emulation of the call, and the second is an emulation of the response. The interesting thing is that it not only makes improvisation possible but probably makes it necessary. You sing the response a little differently.
"Hey Joe, where you goin' with that gun in your hand?
Hey Joe, where you goin' with that gun in your hand?"
Musicians started responding to calls from the singer with their instruments, and then they responded to calls from each other. Jazz was born. In American popular music's infancy, what we had was sheet music--and the popularity of minstrel sheet music (in terms of sales around the country) attests to people's interest in getting authentic music, which they associated with African-Americans. And, in fact, the contributions of African-American culture to what became all forms of American music were profound. Our music owes them practically everything.
White singers didn't want to be left out of the action, and (among other motives) black-face provided them with a way to borrow an association with African-Americans without actually being African-American. Meanwhile, since they weren't actually being sung by African-Americans, they could get away with singing something like authentically "race music" in venues that might not have tolerated it otherwise. Notice what we're talking about here--the same kind of stress and strain between a desire for authenticity, on the one hand, and mass appeal to white people on the other.
Rockabilly acts used to have to dress up like cowboys to play "black music" or "hillbilly music" for similar reasons. Vanilla Ice was obviously marketed as a white version of MC Hammer. KISS (I Was Made for Loving You) and the Rolling Stones (Miss You) at one time did disco to fit in. Disco lost any pretense of authenticity, and people started to hate it. When American punk rock started, it made people so angry and scared, they would physically attack us. When punk rock became popular, it sounded like Blink 182--safe for your little sister's slumber party--and lost all of its authenticity.
The same thing happened when Bing Crosby and Perry Cuomo took what used to be jazz from the streets of New Orleans and it eventually turned into crooning for bobby soxers. At some point, jazz lost its authenticity with the general public, and it became something people listened to in the elevator and when they were on hold. As the authenticity of Hank Williams gave way to the orchestral works of Dolly Parton and Kenny Rogers, Waylon Jennings showed up with a bunch of songs by an authentic Texas cowboy. The appeal of authenticity is the driving force that has kept ALL FORMS of American music relevant for more than 100 years, and I'm not sure that force exists in the internet universe. I'm not even sure it's possible to be authentic on the internet. Regardless, we seem to have stalled--not just in rock--but all the way across the board.
There is certainly a point where every particular style of music loses its ability to connect with its audience. But I think that what has happened over the last 20 years is just simply that the technology, at this point, has obliterated more things than it has enabled re music.
Streaming eliminates revenue for musicians (and intermediaries). If you can't earn a living, then music is merely a hobby.
Curating has moved from in my day a college radio dj to Spotify algorithms. But algorithms (ad-based ones at least) can't do serendipity. They do design which merely reinforces for the listener what they already know and like.
TV and video and later Internet are a visual medium. Hard for music to focus on the sound while also looking the part and dancing the part and creating a film. As George Washington once said Video Killed the Radio Star. But maybe the 'authentic' will be able to multitask all that in future.
Musicians have always kind of sucked at being a good editor and also marketing their music. Maybe something like bandcamp can disintermediate the record labels - but where's the studio producer, the A&R guy, the plugger, and the radio DJ?
I'm not sure any of this will change as long as the ad-based biz model is strangling Web 2.0. But I also think these lockdowns and such made many people realize how important music is to us. A huge opportunity for a Gen Z entrepreneur.
Led Zeppelin never really got the chance to go through the motions and tour based on albums they released decades earlier. They also had a mid career hiatus when Robert Plant injured his ankle and they couldn’t tour for a year plus. I imagine they were chomping at the bit to tour once he recovered. Not complaining. I know Plant released a few solo albums and probably toured to promote them while doing some Zeppelin classics (not looking it up :-)). They also had a ton of great songs so if they didn’t play something (other than say Stairway) had they done the many-years-later touring circuit they could have rotated out stale stuff for other songs and the crowds would have felt they got their money worth.
The only 'authenticity' that matters in music is whether or not the musicians are playing what they want to play, as opposed to the music their label, or agent, or whoever wants them to play.
If they like playing highly commercial music, then they're just as authentic as the more 'edgy' types. Elton John usually seemed pretty authentic to me, and he's always been commercial.
I would argue that bands that decide to play music long after they stopped caring about it themselves have sold out. If Nancy Wilson wants to barf every time she has to sing Barracuda again, then she's destroying what authenticity she has when she sings it again. If what they choose to do is sell their own integrity short, it erodes their authenticity--even if they're choosing to play the music they wrote.
A long time ago I realized that a band that is on tour promoting a good album makes for a good concert. But that window of good albums doesn't tend to last long.
It is not that similar artists aren't out there writing that stuff today.
Youtube is full of amazing artists like that.
But the big, mainstream labels are almost solely catering to young women and teenage girls nowadays. I mean that's where the money always was, and some of the greatest artists got their start catering to them (Elvis, Beatles). But now they're basically the only ones still paying big for music, so that's where the market is going to go if it wants to make money. And since that demographic prefers simplicity and emoting, that's what bubbles to the top.
"But the big, mainstream labels are almost solely catering to young women and teenage girls nowadays."
They have to cater to that to break even, and they make money on merchandizing and branding because, even then, they can't hardly make any money on the music.
You can buy the clothes they wear in their videos. It's like the Star Wars franchise--except they don't make their money on the movie. They make money selling the toys. Letting people brand stuff with the movie.
I had a Burger King manager tell me that their sales triple when they have a Star Wars cup to sell with a meal.
Imagine how much Burger King would make if they had a Joe Biden cup…and patrons had to pay more to get a normal cup. Although a Biden cup could be one of those spill-proof sippie cups.
Of course, if Biden has a space sci-fi theme crossover it would be called Battlestar Geriatrica. What would Biden wear under his space suit? Depends…
Look at the top songs on I tunes and tell me.
Let's go brandon
There is a viral dance for it now.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/lets-go-brandon-chant-gets-a-viral-dance
What you and the rest of the retard boomer nostalgia cases need to realize is that it was never about nonconformity, it was about spreading Marxism. Now that all of the "nonconformist" boomer Marxists are seated on the thrones of cultural and political power, there is no use for the facade of "nonconformity", which is why you see nothing in popular culture except for corporate line toeing. And it's hardly a new phenomenon. It's been that way since at least the 1980s.
You're making capitalism look stupid. How embarrassing! Please become a communist and start making them look stupid instead.
OK. This "Let's go Brandon" thing has officially gone too far. Not only does it disrespect a President who's doing a fantastic job across the board, you could even say it's comparable to pledging support to ISIS. CNN analyst Asha Rangappa explains:
As an experiment, I’d love for an @SouthwestAir pilot to say “Long live ISIS” before taking off. My guess is that 1) the plane would be immediately grounded; 2) the pilot fired; and 3) a statement issued by the airline within a matter of hours
Such a brilliant point.
#LibertariansForBiden
#InsultingBidenIsExactlyLikeSupportingISIS
Let's Go Fuck Joe Brandon
Fuck Tulpa!
Fuck lying ass Dee!
Hail Tupla! (Let's Go White Mike)
Still not a thing.
Fuck Joe Biden
It's neat how Let's Go Brandon has morphed into an global anti-establishment slogan, instead of just an American anti-Biden one.
Here in Canada, Justin Trudeau sent out an unprecedented memo saying that any civil servants using Let's Go Brandon in their emails would be fired. Because Canadian federal employees were actually using Let's Go Brandon, a lot. Isn't that mindblowing?
That’s hilarious.
Anyone getting fired for using Let’s Go Wheat Kings?
Fuck Joe Biden
I have no idea who this 'Brandon' is that you are all referring to.
Ray Davies is a genius lyricist.
A new album by the Kinks!! Oh...1971.
Usually with 90-year-olds, it's a bathtub they can't get into (more importantly, out of) and a shower manageable.
Great article.
Inflation will plunge in 2022: Goldman Sachs
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/inflation-will-plunge-in-2022-goldman-sachs-202724178.html
Goldman - "the smartest guys in the room" is reading my mail.
"Plunge" back to 2%. I would say "normalize" myself. Nevertheless the inflation boogeyman won't work for the GOP by election time.
If you want these inside looks at what is really happening in the economy subscribe to my financial newsletter The Buttplug Letter for only $495/yr. Not everyone is eligible though.
Yeah. Hopefully people stop paying attention to wingnut.com sites like The New York Times which spread absurd rightwing conspiracy theories like the idea that inflation is a legitimate issue.
#DefendBidenAtAllCosts
Set aside for a second, that you have been predicting (incorrectly) a "normalized" inflation rate for the past quarter. Why do you think it is GOOD news that we have another 6 months or so of inflation? The RATE isn't what people feel- it is the absolute devaluation of the dollar that sucks. Whether inflation goes to zero or not, a person who set their salary during the 2019/2020 cycle has now taken a 7.5% paycut due to to inflation. By the time it "normalizes" that will be closer to 10%.
Why is that good news, SPB? The rate may be better, but peoples' pay is still eroded, and that won't change. "Hey good news, everybody, the government is going to stop chopping off your fingers next year! Aren't we smart!?"
Markets are returning to pre-COVID price levels where workers were already braced for those old prices.
All the caterwauling about $80/bbl oil forgets the fact that oil was over $100/bbl FIVE (5) different years prior to COVID. Oil prices are set by the cartel anyway.
The USD is not devalued. It sits at 94/DXY today. This recovery bump is concentrated in just a few long lead-time items like autos.
Until commodities (including gold) show signs of inflation it is just a figment of overreaction to reopening pressure.
turd lies. It's what turd does. turd is a pathological liar entirely too stupide to remember the lies he told just minutes ago, so he repeats them even after they've been shown to be lies. That's the was most everyone else knows he's congenital liar.
If something is in a turd post which it not a lie, it's purely accidental
turd lies; it's all he does.
Well, I certainly hope you are right. I see people claiming all kinds of predictions about future inflation, hyperinflation, or lack thereof. I don’t claim to know the future myself.
Yet you defend a pedophile who denied inflation was happening for the last 6 months merely because he is on your team.
Wow.
Hint. He has never been right. He runs cover for democrats just like you do.
There’s a little gray bug
Biting at my ankles
A little Jesse bug
Biting at my ankles
Isn't it nice not seeing the constant lies and personal attacks?
I haven’t muted you so I still see them hypocrite.
Lol, White Mike and sarcasmic are peekers.
More so they are hypocrites. Swx mentions maga below bit the only people who bring up trump are them. He accused others of having tds a week ago when the only one who mentioned trump was him.
They must truly believe when they mute someone it mutes it for everybody. Because all they are doing is showing themselves to being lying hypocrites.
Sarc*
Single White Xdresser also works.
Yes.
Yesterday, Reason did the thing where they periodically logged me out, to require re-authentication. While the site was in that state, I could see ML's and Jesse's comments -- total garbage, not contributing anything to the commentariat, or the world in general.
There was apparently a whole conversation about some offensive comment Kill All Rednecks had made.
My name came up, but I have to thank Mother's Lament for saying that the comment didn't match my style. I have Kill All Rednecks muted.
So you went 4/5ths of the thread without realizing you weren't logged in and seeing dozens of comments from muted people?
Or lying.
He's a peeker.
Just like sarcasmic.
Their big declarations about muting everyone are because they think it's some sort of punishment, not because they don't give a shit about the mutee's opinion. That's why they're always mentioning it.
Ken, Chumby and soldiermedic aren't continually posting about how they muted sarcasmic and Laursen, because they weren't doing it to punish dissention. They muted those two because they found them annoying and don't give a fuck about their opinions.
Ken and I disagree on various topics including the US Civil War and dog breeds. I enjoy his intellect and logically constructed arguments, even when we don’t see eye to eye.
I’m allergic to mediocre (at best) shit disturbers that are one-trick whataboutism posters. Don’t have time for it.
Yeah, KillAllRednecks is a sarcasmic sock. You autistic retards who can't comprehend human language and don't understand your own rhetorical and linguistic tics any better than you do others' have a really difficult time understanding why those of us who don't share your mental handicap can spot your socks from outer space.
Lol. Complete lie as usual from Mike. How can you guys openly do this? How many citations were in either thread from me as compared to you.
You two do understand that others are not muted when you mute right?? Because you look retarded trying this.
Because this comment by Dee is adding so much. Hypocrite.
Lol, remember yesterday when you were accusing everyone except you of living in a social media-created ideological bubble and I pointed out what a stupid cunt you were for doing so whilst you constantly suck your own dick about all the people you've muted and only associate with the most radically left wing literal Marxists who occupy this site? You've devolved to the point of hanging out with and defending shreek, the pedophile who was ousted from this site for posting dark web kiddie porn links.
That’s rich.
Lol. It is amazing watching you two demonstrate ignorance despite comments directly against your own statements.
You do realize when you mute someone it doesn't mure it for other people right?
You just look stupid.
Dude, it's 1930s Germany right now here in the US. Fascist Democrats are literal Hitler. Hyperinflation is around the corner along with railcars for conservatives and anti-vaxxers. Haven't you learned anything from Ken's wisdom?
"If only Comrade Stalin knew" - sarcasmic 2030
It's kind of amazing that someone like sarcasmic, who professes to be libertarian, can handwave away everything he's seen happen in the last nine months as unnecessary hysteria.
To be this willfully blind he's either lying about his libertarianism, or he's so stupid that he doesn't actually comprehend what's occurring.
He isnt a libertarian. He is the living embodies of the Golden mean fallacy. He thinks if he can blame both sides equally he will appear intelligent. It all goes back to his insecurity of his intelligence. That's why his arguments are at best a quite that is barely related.
At one point he was just recycling two different Bastiat quotes in unrelated content as a signal. But he truly doesn't understand concepts.
A quote that is*
sarcasmic has always been incredibly stupid and just basically regurgitates whatever is in his news feed. That used to mean that he'd mindlessly repeat Cato's short-form articles (he's too stupid and lazy to read any of their actual long-form studies) and what little he managed to glean from Economics In One Lesson. The problem is that Cato went bugfuck nuts after Trump got elected and became a DNC mouthpiece, falling right in line with their benefactor exactly as Reason did. So sarcasmic went right off the deep end with them since he's incapable of any independent thought and just regurgitates whatever he reads there. Then when Mango and the Fonz started repeating CNN and linking to Slate and The Atlantic, those constituted his new reading lists. If you go back like 10 years and read what he posted then vs now you'll see that it's a perfect mirror reflection of the Cato/Niskanen and Reason descent into babbling leftism.
All the hyperinflation tweets I see on Twitter seem to be made by people selling Bitcoin-related services, so I kind of have to take them with a grain of salt.
"Haven't you learned anything from Ken's wisdom?" - sarcasmic
Take the poor guy fishing Mike. Can't you see how desperate he is to be pals with you?
If you don't appease him soon he's going to end up going to Ken's house in a unhinged attempt to get your attention, and it'll be all your fault.
Jerome Powell and Janet Yellen are much more trustworthy, of course.
Hilariously, this is a perfect example of what I was just talking about. 10 years ago sarcasmic was an AUDIT THE FED type of guy, and now he's literally repeating the same HURRR DURRRRR GOLDBUGS! CHRISTFAGS! BUSHPIGS! shit that his newfound pal shreek the kiddie fucker has been posting since, well, the Bush administration.
I hate to break it to you, but we’ve been at least quasi-fascist for 100 years.
If I had blanket protection from failure gaurentee by the fed I wouldn't be worried eighter.
Listening to the execs at Goldman sacs about the economy is like continuing to listen to the generals that did see Afghanistan being over run, or listening to fauci
turd lies. It's what turd does. turd is a pathological liar entirely too stupide to remember the lies he told just minutes ago, so he repeats them even after they've been shown to be lies. That's the was most everyone else knows he's congenital liar.
If something is in a turd post which it not a lie, it's purely accidental
turd lies; it's all he does.
Tell my grocery bill that inflation is just a boogeyman. And my rent too.
HAPERINFLATION!!!!!!!!!!!1111
Quit whining. This Biden economy is the best ever.
Uhhhh, you mean like you did 7 minutes after posting this?
Let me guess, you wuz hacked again? They forgot to put your trademark leading space this time, it must be bad. Good thing your'e a cybersec expert trained in the fine art of computer programming who has to ask around about how to use HTML tags that haven't been deprecated for 20 years.
At this point I think sarcasmoc muted himself, yes you can do that, so he doesn't reread the stupid shit he says. He knows he will lie about it later anyways.
The inflation bogeyman is alive and well.
People are tired of the COVID bogeyman. Except maybe in California, people here are still wearing masks religiously, seemingly unaware that people in other states have ditched them and seen no relative increase in case rates.
Had not heard before about John Eastman’s claims about “secret folders” in voting machines. Pure nuttery, or if he didn’t really believe it, pure manipulation of gullible MAGAs:
“They put those ballots in a secret folder in the machines.”
https://www.dailycamera.com/2021/01/06/cu-boulder-visiting-scholar-john-eastman-criticized-for-election-fraud-claims
Ahh. The typical leftist deflection. Have reporters find the most outlandish claims to dismiss then apply them to all claims. Standard Mike.
Meanwhile a concerned child of a dementia added woman who saw her mom voted not once but twice from a nursing home got the sheriff to investigate and found completely abnormal voting from nursing home residents and felony violations of election law.
https://thefederalist.com/2021/10/29/wisconsin-elections-commission-shattered-laws-by-telling-nursing-home-staffers-to-illegally-cast-ballots-for-residents/
Luell, who led the investigation at the request of the district attorney, found an unusual spike in voting at this care facility: 42 people had voted in the 2020 presidential election. That number is usually 10. Furthermore, in 2020, 38 people had requested absentee ballots, up from the usual 0-3 in normal years.
When Luell attempted to contact the families of these voters to check whether their loved ones had the cognitive capacity to cast a vote, seven replied no, and almost all of them hadn’t voted since 2012.
Thousands of votes were recoeved from nursing homes for end of life dementia patients. But Mike found a story he could dismiss so there was zero fraud in the election.
Ow! Something keeps biting at my ankle.
Yes. Actual information. You choose to be ignorant. I don't know what you think you get by advertising your chosen ignorance. It is the lost amusing part of you and sarcasmic.
My post is factual but you act as if it is not. Because you have chosen ignorance above all else.
I'm pretty sure he read your post, but you pretty much demolished his argument so that retort was all he had.
I believe it's a gullible MAGA.
And yet again. Sarc responds to a comment with cited sources backed by sheriff investigation and attacks a person and not an idea.
Amazing how big of a hypocrite you are.
Lol, so much effort but White Mike and Shrike are never going to take you fishing, sarcasmic.
He would steal all their drugs.
Nobody want shrike’s drugs. Where do you think he hides them?
He’d show up in his clown suit.
And on another follow up that has been well documented. Government officials, democrats, keep sending private dollars to increase election spending in heavy blue areas, violating equal protection and election laws as discussed in gore v Florida on 2000.
This time the Pa governor was directing higher funds to be spent in high democrat areas to effect election turn out and staffing.
https://justthenews.com/nation/states/pennsylvania-republicans-blast-wolf-administrations-role-private-election-grant
Wow, that's disgusting and if White Mike were actually libertarian that should scare the hell out of him.
It was the major game plan for zuck bucks. Funding per voter was ridiculously biased to blue areas which already have a location advantage of being in urban centers.
She’s not a libertarian and she supports these actions.
Dee ignores it when Dems are cawt
redblue handed.Mike and Jeff have both made claims that CRT is not being taught in schools, stating it is only a university academic idea. They both have cited a single rufo quote where rufo discusses the fact that he has expanded CRT to cover many things, but im that conversation he says he did so because supporters have as well. Mike and Jeff continue to ignore the dozens and dozens of primary sources material rufo gas published of school systems citing teaching CRT such as in Virginia.
https://mobile.twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1454467134067642377
Sourced material shows the VA system teaching their teachers CRT material.
Their claims of CRT not being taught hinge on a distinction-without-a-difference in the definition akin to those who quibble about the Second Amendment use of "militia" and dig up fake laws and fake copies of fake laws worse than that Belislelie-whatever fool who relied on records which had actually been burned a century earlier.
Strawmen and lies is their modus operandi. There's not an honest bone in their bodies.
But it isnt even a distinction here. It shows in 2017 they explicitly called their teacher training CRT. It was only after the push back starting occurring that they tried changing the definition to run cover for what is being taught.
They have now settled on diversity, inclusion, and equity which is even scarier. Especially on the equity part as many are now clamoring for exactly equal outcomes. They don't even realize their new acronym is DIE.
I can also tell you that in Arizona that the arguments over Mexican American Studies (MAS) in high schools is directly tied to the pedagogical push of CRT from the colleges on state. They have said they were linked for a decade. And yet they sued over the first anti CRT law here a decade ago when the law merely stated they could not teach race based pedagogy in school.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/07/11/tucson-unified-school-districts-mexican-american-studies-program-498926
It is the exact same verbiage now. It just grew farther through the country since that suit. The judge who tossed the law was a liberal activist.
And here was a 2013 ruling upholding the vast majority of the Arizona law banning teaching race as a defining metric of racism.
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/12/education/most-of-arizona-law-on-ethnic-studies-is-upheld.html
Ga joins AZ in suing the feds over federal contractor vaccine mandates.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/kemp-on-vaccine-mandate-lawsuit-wont-allow-fed-to-make-georgians-choose-between-their-livelihood-or-a-vaccine
And as we learned in the latest vaccination study, since the vaccinated spread delta at the same rate as the unvaccinated, the claims of Biden to want to reduce infection rates is complete bunk. Of course the usual statists all defended mandates once again yesterday while claiming not to. Decrying the study.
The Obama Mommas are seriously butthurt about "Let's Go Brandon" becoming such an explosive viral meme. Everywhere I look around, especially on Twitter, they're whining nonstop about how widespread and popular it has gotten. Keep hitting these fuckers where it hurts!
Chuck Todd realizing how bad polling is for the dems.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Logan_Ratick/status/1454826031681056770
“Just 22 percent of adults say we’re headed in the right direction,” Todd said Sunday on NBC. “A shocking 71 percent say we’re on the wrong track, and that includes a near majority of Democrats who are saying that.”
“Scary news for the Democrats,” he said.
I’m surprised shrike is still pretending there is no inflation instead of blaming it on Trump like so many twats in that link.
Oh, and most Americans probably don't know it, but Sleepy Joe is already an absolute embarrassment and laughingstock in the international media. They're openly mocking his senility and incoherence on their shows. Watch this video and try not to cringe, but I don't think you'll be able to:
https://twitter.com/KamVTV/status/1454645955337375748
he also ditched the mask at the first opportunity
A friend in Brazil didn’t like Trump but she admitted because he was a strong leader. I asked her about Biden and her response was raucous laughter.
What was her opinion of Bolsonaro?
Their currency is tanking so she’s pissed about that. She owns a business and exports so there is a silver lining with that. We don’t talk specifically about her politicians (she went to school here and has a brother here so it is germane to talk about POTUS).
Now American Airlines is canceling hundreds of flights over "weather delays". At least they are admitting to "staff shortages". Gee I wonder why pilots are calling in sick....
https://abc7chicago.com/american-airlines-cancels-flights-ohare-airport/11185427/
Warning: media news reader starts talking automatically.
"With additional weather throughout the system, our staffing begins to run tight as crew members end up out of their regular flight sequences," American said in a statement to CNN.
Also a story in NYC of a child dying in a fire due to fire staff shortages.
These deaths are squarely on the shoulders of the progressive politicians mandating draconian requirements.
But if they save one life, isn't it worth it, no matter how many lives it costs?
Like the folks that will drive 30 miles to save 5 cents on a 2-liter of soda.
Don't let the capitalists win.
Multiple CEOs have been in the news the last week about the employee crisis with mandates. Yet all the usual dumbasses were claiming corporations were implementing mandates of their own free will just yesterday. See sqrsly/sarc especially. Even made up a story about a immuno compromised wife as of we haven't dealt with that for a century.
Biden dismisses his low poll numbers:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/31/bernie-sanders-democrats-biden-agenda
He said: “I didn’t run to determine how well I’m going to do in the polls. I ran to make sure that I follow through on what I said I would do as president of the United States.
“I said that I would make sure that we were in a position where we dealt with climate change, where we moved in a direction that would significantly improve the prospects of American workers having good jobs and good pay....
Well, except for the 25 to 30% I want to have fired.
And part of this New Jerusalem was the New Towns Act of 1946, which started the process of relocating Londoners from homes deemed substandard (or homes that had simply been bombed out) to planned communities outside the city limits.
Actually the relocation was from the country (40% of London left London during the Blitz) back to London area. Yes - 1 million houses had been destroyed - half of them in the London area. It was not about 'upgrading' housing - unless homeless is an upgrade. That council housing was known to be cheap - designed with a 10 year life in mind - and the actual name of the legislation to build that housing was the Housing (Temporary Accommodations) Act of 1944. That is the housing that would have been built in Muswell Hill (an existing town with little direct bomb damage). 1.2 million of those houses were built by the early 1950's.
The New Towns Act of 1946 was a rezoning and greenfield build of completely new towns - based on an urban planning notion called 'garden cities' from the early 20th century. Those builds didn't really ramp up until the mid-50's (there was no direct financing only a loan guarantee) and went until Thatcher closed them in the early-80's. Which has nothing to do with either Ray Davies childhood/memories or the Muswell Hillbillies album.
We can debate whether it started the process, given earlier slum clearance legislation, but the people who moved to the New Towns—both immediately after World War II and in the ensuing decades—certainly included a lot of Londoners; the fact that many of them temporarily fled the city during the Blitz doesn't change that. And Davies definitely had those towns in mind when he wrote the album. From elsewhere in that Circus interview: "What amazes me is there are new towns like Harlow in England, and in these towns and in Colchester and East Anglia there are all these people who've been taken out of the East End of London and put into these places where they don't really exist as they did before. They're trying to keep things the same as when they lived together in London, but they have to break down eventually."
Side note: If you want to see a libertarian-leaning person saying nice things about the New Towns, look for Colin Ward's writings on the topic—he was a big fan of the garden city concept.
Yeah - I can see now that he's talking about the New Towns stuff when he's being interviewed while writing the album. The 60's and 70's coincided with both the urban renewal stuff in the US and New Towns stuff - car-oriented greenfield suburbs - in the UK. But if he's talking about his granny at age 90 or so being moved into a house with only a shower, then that is the New Towns and Muswell Hillbillies timeframe - but it's one of the Temp Housing builds from the 1944 act where that housing continued to exist after its intended life. Looking at the wiki for Islington (where she previously lived), it looks like Islington in the late 60's was being gentrified and 'de-densified'.
Glad to see that the Kinks are musical inspiration here.
OTOH - Maybe he should've bought a small house for his granny - with a tub. He had the money so she didn't need to be jerked around by people in gray.
Is that your general solution -- let the rich buy their freedom, everyone else put up with the people in gray?
Maybe Rav Davies actually cared about the broken process.
Oh no. I absolutely believe that the rich should soak up as much welfare as they can from the people in gray. So that they can 'care about the broken process'.
The poor OTOH shouldn't get shit. They need to learn how to work for everything they might one day earn. They are leeches and looters and moochers and will only become dependent if anyone 'gives' them anything. Esp taxpayers - who should be getting whatever welfare the govt hands out.
I'm guessing that Ray Davies was telling a story about a time before Ray Davies had money.
Holy shit! A German member of the European Parliament speaks the truth!
But it is not the goal that renders a system oppressive it is always the methods by which the goal is pursued. Whenever a government claims to have the people’s interest at heart, you need to think again.
In the entire history of mankind there has never been a political elite sincerely concerned about the well-being of regular people. What makes any of us think that it is different now? If the age of enlightenment has brought forth anything then, certainly this: never take anything any government tells you at face value.
But it is not the goal that renders a system oppressive it is always the methods by which the goal is pursued.
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
Let's all take a moment to remember that sarcasmic supports police summarily executing unarmed protesters and believes that anyone who doesn't wear a mask in public is "selfish" and personally responsible for killing his grandmother.
"When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; but when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Jefferson
They, the people sarc and white Mike agree with, canceled him. No lore Jefferson.
You know which other German politician issued dire warnings to other European nations?
Sarcs presidential idol is on tv right now. Man does he look unwell. He has to read directly word for word from a piece of paper and slurring non stop.
And they just cut off questions lol.
Did you see that embarrassing event in Rome? this is becoming parody.
Oh, and 800 people showed up to see the President, in a blue state he won by double digits. Most popular president in American History.
Reversed a 150 year electoral trend. Blew away FDR, JFK, Nixon, Reagan, Clinton and Obama vote wise. Most beloved president in history.
When the dust settles there needs to be Nuremberg Trials for a whole bunch of stuff.
"Nuremberg Trials"....you optimist.
To be fair, that is about 600 more than showed up for his campaign events.
Which means his popularity is increasing. QED.
I have all of the Kinks CDs, most of their vinyl albums, and went to half dozen of their concerts in the 1970s and 1980s. Ray's lyrics sounded like a social scientist, and the music was excellent.
Muswell Hillbillies was their album that got me hooked.
I hope Ray bought his granny a house with a tub.
Why would he do that? The government will provide.
Dark Horse podcast, "Can vaccine mandates be stopped"
Short clip, worth a watch.
I really enjoy Weinstein's takes. Red-pilled lefty academics are often the most coherent out of the pile.
Libertarian commentary on Britain attempting to import US-Style mask-culture wars.
That was a short but worthwhile watch.
Happy Halloween! Does everyone have a mask?
NO! BOOOOO!
The scariest Halloween costume this year is a kid not wearing a mask.
IT WAS ONLY FUNNY THE FIRST TIME!
When I was a freshman in college, I was friends with the guy in charge of booking entertainment for the school. He had a bit list of acts that were available.
The Kinks were only $5,000.
the People in Grey
(NSFW)
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/351189924558-0-1/s-l1000.jpg
When I read NSFW, I thought it was going to be Jews.
I'm just saying you might not want Confederate iconography on your work computer.
Especially not if it's combined with sexually-suggestive material. That's what you call a twofer.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/dc/86/34/dc8634e6e1dbdfec72c6440149175c0f.jpg
The South shall rise again…just after a viagra and a few minutes with a fluffer.
I'll lose my job as host of the Bachelorette
The men in grey are a problem but they are soon followed by the Vogons... who have even less interest in fair Islington.
21st Century popular culture is largely garbage in movies, music and literature. Digital killed it but the silver lining is the analog back catalog is much more accessible with either slight degradation or significant enhancement.
Video killed the radio star…and THAT’S when I quit paying attention!
love the piece. Kinks were the bomb and Muswell Hillbillies was spectacular.
paranoia and wish I could fly are I think my fave songs though. met a girl named Lola and I took her back to my place ...