More Evidence Emerges that the NIH Funded Coronavirus Gain-of-Function Research in China
What did Fauci know and when did he know it?

In a letter yesterday to Rep. James Comer (R–Ky.), National Institutes of Health (NIH) Principal Deputy Director Lawrence Tabak tepidly acknowledged that his agency funded coronavirus research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. The money, channeled through the EcoHealth Alliance, supported scientists who modified bat coronaviruses so that they were "capable of binding to the human ACE2 receptor in a mouse model."
Basically, the Chinese researchers modified the spike protein of a relatively harmless coronavirus so that it would function as a key enabling the virus to open and invade cells in humanized mice. As it happens, the coronavirus responsible for the COVID-19 pandemic chiefly infects people by binding to our ACE2 receptors.
Calling this a "limited experiment," Tabak tried to minimize the risks of this research. But he admitted that the lab mice infected with the SHC014 W1V1 bat coronavirus—a synthetic viral construct designed to infect human cells—"became sicker than those infected with the W1V1 bat coronavirus." The NIH, Tabak added, determined that the research plan "did not fit the definition of research involving enhanced pathogens of pandemic potential (ePPP) because these bat coronaviruses had not been shown to infect humans." ePPP refers to gain-of function research that "aims to increase the ability of infectious agents to cause disease by enhancing its pathogenicity or by increasing its transmissibility."
Tabak's claim mirrors National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases Director Anthony Fauci's congressional testimony in July that this research "was judged by qualified staff up and down the chain as not being gain of function." But pointing out that the original bat coronaviruses had not been shown to infect human beings appears somewhat disingenuous, because the Wuhan researchers were clearly seeking to deliberately modify bat coronaviruses so that they could infect human cells.
Tabak's letter notes that, "out of an abundance of caution," the NIH grant required that the "grantee report immediately a one log increase in growth." Or, to quote the document directly:
If any experiments proposed in this award result in a virus with enhanced growth by more than 1 log compared to wild type strains, you must notify your NIAID Program Officer and Grants Management Specialist immediately. Further research involving the resulting virus(es) may require review by the Department of Health and Human Services in accordance with the Framework for Guiding Funding Decisions about Proposed Research Involving Enhanced Potential Pandemic Pathogens.
Mikolaj Raszek, founder of the Canadian genomics analysis company Merogenomics, has written a careful dissection of the recently released NIH progress report on its EcoHealth Alliance coronavirus research grant. Raszek points out that "a log of 1 of any number is that same exact number (21 = 2) and therefore log 1 simply indicates no growth." In fact, a summary of the fourth year of research in the just released documents reports that the mice infected with the SHC014 W1V1 virus ended up with much higher viral loads in their lungs. That would seem to mean that those experiments yielded "growth by more than 1 log compared to wild type strains."
According to Tabak's C.Y.A. letter, "EcoHealth failed to report this finding right away, as was required by the terms of the grant. EcoHealth is being notified that they have five days from today to submit to NIH any and all unpublished data from the experiments and the work conducted under this award." Given that the COVID-19 coronavirus apparently emerged in the city where NIH-funded research to enhance the infectivity of such viruses was taking place, why did it take so long for top NIH bureaucrats to get around to asking EcoHealth and the Wuhan Institute of Virology to disclose exactly what they were up to?
Tabak's letter went to great pains to point out that the COVID-19 virus is genetically distant from the viruses used in these experiments. "This analysis confirms that the bat coronaviruses studied under the EcoHealth Alliance grant could not have been the source of the [COVID-19 virus] and the COVID-19 pandemic," it concluded. That is likely right, but that does not take into account that such experiments trained researchers at the institute on how to easily manipulate the characteristics of coronaviruses. Did those researchers use their newly acquired skills in modifying coronaviruses to enhance their ability to infect human beings in experiments that have not been disclosed?
In any case, once it has the information it has ordered EcoHealth to supply, the NIH should immediately release it.
As Raszek concludes:
The NIH grants reveal that the work performed in Wuhan along with other institutes was geared towards generating coronaviruses more infectious to humans to learn about potential future threats which could then be subsequently monitored. This type of information makes Wuhan as the starting place of the current pandemic less plausible as a mere coincidence in light of the type of dangerous research with human pandemic potential that was being conducted in there.
Yes, indeed.
Given Fauci's congressional testimony denying that NIH funded gain-of-function research at the Wuhan institute, you should expect further inquiries into what Fauci knew and when he knew it. The Rutgers biologist Richard Ebright, a longtime critic of gain-of-function research, has made it clear what he thinks of the matter.
Whether or not the pandemic coronavirus leaked from the Wuhan institute's labs is yet to be determined. But the fact that the Chinese government continues to reject the World Health Organization's proposed follow-up investigation into the origins of the virus will certainly and properly fuel suspicions that it did.
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Where did I read that joke about getting new conspiracy theories because all my current ones have come true?
Yeah, I thought this one stopped counting conspiracy when people found the paperwork. I'm spirited it hasn't been completely memory holed though.
They don't have that level of control yet.
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Yeah, I got an email from Rand Paul yesterday that said the exact same thing as this article and figured it was some crackpot far right conspiracy. But libertarians are far right according to the good right thinking people, so perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised a far right rag like reason would publish such disinformation
"Crackpot far right conspiracies" is the Democratic Party word for spoilers.
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It's actually amusing because previously some of the Reason's staff had attacked Paul for his claims.
There is a lot about Reason's staff that is amusing.
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I would really like to see some of these attacks. Do you have examples? Was it articles here, or somewhere else?
Me too. I remember them hiking their skirts and shrieking away from Ron when L'Affaire Newsletter came up, but I wasn't aware they'd diversified to shitting on Rand too.
https://reason.com/2021/07/23/is-anthony-fauci-lying-about-nih-funding-of-wuhan-lab-research-or-is-rand-paul/#comments
Best I could find, but I’m lazy.
It was ENB and she was doing it on Twitter, and Robby white knighted for her when she started catching flack.
I might have a link on my laptop, I'll check when I get home.
It's the very worst kind of disinformation! Completely true. The devious bastards.
The guy needs to be executed for crimes against humanity.
Mistakes like his, you should be grateful if you're only going to prison.
Hasn't happened yet, isn't likely to, but, as I keep saying here, be the change you wish to see in others.
Not a mistake.
Repeatedly lying about this is not a mistake. Losing a form, or forgetting his keys, that would be a mistake.
Conspiracy theories should now properly be called, "Spoiler alerts."
Not original, but fits here.
Pretty funny, how much shit Alex Jones and his ilk are being proven right on. Imagine what we'll learn tomorrow.
Oh boy, Ron Bailey is gonna have some egg on his face. Did you read the 500 page research proposal, Ron? There is nothing in there about gain of function research. Perhaps you would care to point out a page number where the proposal calls for gain of function? Letting a virus accumulate point mutations over time in a Petri dish is NOT gain of function. Also,the SHC014 W1V1 bat coronavirus is a naturally occurring virus.
Sorry you’re having trouble understanding. It became GoF when it was enhanced.
But nothing is gonna happen because we all know
that the cia and China pulled this shit to get rid of trump.
Holy shit, you guys don't care about facts at all, do you? It's a naturally occurring virus. They didn't modify it. It was not gain of function research. You heard something that you wanted to hear, and never bothered to check the facts. As did all of the right-wing media sphere.
It WAS a naturally occurring virus of bats - NOT HUMANS. The Gain of Function experiments occurred when they changed the spike protein so it easily infects humans (and not bats).
I tend to believe them when they say this isn't the virus they were experimenting on - that is, that the Chinese lab was so sloppy other viruses got into one of the cultures, and were genetically modified along with the experimental subject virus. They were also sloppy about containment for the cultures, so the virus escaped.
Dead thread, but if your hypothesis is right, MarkM, consider that one of the other viruses the WIV is known to be working on is Nipah. Look that one up if you want some sleepless nights. Allegedly, genetic material with high homology with sequences in Nipah, were found in some of the SARS-CoV2 strains.
The world failed to listen to the French team whose firm designed the Wuhan lab, and who loudly and repeatedly complained that the Chinese were dangerously ignoring the by-the-book isolation protocols that came with it.
What did Fauci know and when did he know it?
Are we going to pretend that Rand Paul didn't already ask that question and was lied to?
Are we going to pretend that the FBI aren't completely compromised lackeys of the Democrat party? They investigated 35 year old unreported rape accusations against Kavanaugh, but nothing for over a year regarding a conspiracy to cover up a worldwide pandemic.
The Biden Administration did a 90-day investigation that turned out inconclusive, so they stopped looking, figuring that was probably pretty exhaustive.
"They investigated 35 year old unreported rape accusations against Kavanaugh, "
While ignoring contemporary rape accusations against Epstein and US Women's Gymnastics Dr Nasser. Yeah noble tradition, the FBI has.
I wouldn't mind their getting to the bottom (pun unintended) of what ever abuse Hunter Biden was visiting on his (likely) underage female relatives.
'Sword and Shield of the UniParty.'
I'd like to see round two, though.
"So. Dr Fauci. About the Wuhan lab...."
I’d like to see round two, though.
So would I.
CIA Interrogator: So. Dr Fauci. About the Wuhan lab….
Dr. Fauci: Glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, glug, GASP!
The Kavanaugh accusation wasn't even rape. It was allegedly a silly high school prank, where nothing ultimately happened.
Well, since we got neither time, location or other specifics of the accusations, it's hard to say what that evil misogynist got up to, whenever he whatever did.
And then, not a hint of scandal for his entire public career? SUPER suspicious, amirite? Just what a toxic male would do,
/s Jebus.
Fauci Lied and People Died!
But the Fauci Flops are forever.
Fauci, the most horrible doctor since Mengele.
chick Doctor Who.
^THIS^
Franchise killer.
British sci-fi fans tardest hit?
It's About Time!
Actually lol'd. Outstanding not-a-typo.
>>you should expect further inquiries into what Fauci knew and when he knew it
yes, we *should* but that's not how anything works anymore. why don't you park yourself in front of his mailbox and conduct investigative journalism for us?
I expect that Fauci could walk in to a press conference and tell dozens of reporters "We paid for it, and boy did we get our money's worth," and the reporters would unanimously refuse to cover it. Further, anyone who read a transcript of the press conference and tried to call attention to the fact would also be ignored.
In other words, exactly the same thing that happened when Fauci admitted that the COVID-19 death numbers were inflated.
anyone who read a transcript of the press conference and tried to call attention to the fact would also be ignored
You mean called a Dangerous Far-Right Conspiracy Theorist Spreading Dangerous Misinformation and posing a Danger To Our Democracy before being arrested and held without trial for years?
This is a huge issue for me. What exactly did we get for all those dollars spent to investigate bat-origin coronaviruses? From where I'm sitting we have a group of 'experts' that kind find a single ass with all their hands put together.
Look at the the concentration of State power and realize you've got your answer.
Since bats are on the menu in out island Melanesia, why blame Covid on Chinese spelunkers?
Subpoena King Kong !
They are too concerned with investigating Steve Bannon instead.
I'm personally treating this whole situation as "man-made". That's my default assumption going forward.
It has been obvious for months that it is manmade. The world has a pandemic every ten years or so. And it has been determined pretty early on where every pandemic that has occurred during the post World War II era of modern medicine originated. Every pandemic has originated in some other species whereby one day the mutation came up just right and the virus crossed the species barrier and went from being deadly to pigs or birds usually to being deadly for humans.
Here we have COVID. Next to HIV, COVID has to be the most studied virus in human history. Yet, almost two years since the start of the COVID pandemic no one has found just exactly what species or where it originated. It defies credulity to think that no one would have determined the virus's origins by now if it in fact had natural origins. There is no way it didn't come from the Wuhan lab.
While I believe that the evidence points to manmade, the fact that we cannot find the origin is not really that surprising. If it originated naturally, it came from some winged rodent (bat not pigeon) is China- a country that doesn't let WHO scientists just wander around the countryside taking samples.
Again: likely manmade, but the lack of finding the origin is not exactly proof.
The last four pandemics came from China and we knew immediately where they came from.
The last pandemic was MERS, which originated in Saudi Arabia.
Before that, Swine Flu (H1N1) Originated in Mexico.
SARS was traced back to China, but the actual "bridge" species wasn't identified.
Hong Kong Flu - was theorized to start on the mainland, but that was never proven because the only real knowledge came from Hong Kong that was a Brittish protectorate.
The Chinese have been making it hard to find this stuff for a long time.
And the fact that the genetic sequence had 6-codon markers that appear no where else in nature, but are the default markers for a specific gene splicing method ... for the exact reason that they do not occur in nature. Minor detail like that.
Peter Daszak has a sad, and thinks you're lying.
Yeah, this got out of a lab, as anyone with a brain has realized for the last 18 months or so.
Nice to see it's acceptable news now. Especially since this Administration has zero intention of possibly punishing China, or any of the Americans responsible for funding/overseeing the research.
Why the the government punish China for doing exactly what the government paid China to do?
Completely untrue
Fauci must answer for his crimes.
The lying is enough to justify prison time.
Good Democrat voters worship authority figures, and depend upon their guidance to go about their daily affairs. The chimps here in CA are literally standing by to inject their five year olds as soon as the FDA gives the thumbs up.
Fauci is going nowhere as long as the current shit-show in DC remains in power. Which means Fauci isn’t going anywhere.
"Good Democrat voters worship authority figures"
Count on it, bank on it, depend on it; fucking true.
Congress should needle Fauci further regarding this.
I wonder if this story will go viral?
We may need to inoculate the populace to hear the results.
That is nothing to sneeze at. Maybe someone involved will cough up more details.
The investigation into Fauci needs a real shot in the arm.
You may think it's funny, but it's snot.
You guys have a sick sense of humor.
It’s reached a fever pitch.
Something’s definitely in the air….
Our sense of humor may be sick, but at least it’s infectious…
So far, he seems to have immunity.
And not just the qualified kind. Full blown absolute immunity. And a book deal, documentary and probably a Nobel prize.
Wouldn't be surprised if, in his private moments, Fauci hasn't considered the possibility of winning a Nobel Prize. Predicated on the whole "Here's some money to see if you can create a pandemic." thing not being publicly revealed.
He'll be mandated to appear before Congress.
Yeah that prick deserves a few good jabs.
We joke, but that little fucker belongs in prison. Old school ass raping prison.
A fair trial. Nurembergesque.
Takrn before the water board for questioning.
All suspects should be treated with dignity.
I have a friend who swears that if last winter Fauci had come out and said that Jews were the source of COVID that people would have had progroms and been burning down synagogues with their members locked inside. I can't say she is right but given how the media and Democrats have acted regarding Fauci and his proclamations, I can't say she is wrong either.
As one sharp observer noted, if this whole pandemic has taught us anything, it's who would have turned Anne Frank in, and who would have hidden her.
Yes. That and to stop looking down my nose as an American to the Germans over Nazism because we are no better. We have just been lucky.
Heh, funny you mention that. There was an interesting interview with Lionel Shriver where she said that most of her life, she wondered "what was wrong" with pre WWII Germany and its people. What 'dysfunction' was present in their society that allowed Hitler and the Nazis to proliferate.
With the whole pandemic response, she now thinks she judged them too harshly.
ReadThe Rape of the Mind by Joost Merloo. It is about Nazism but it applies perfectly to today. Basically get people to be afraid all of the time and you can induce mass psychosis.
What is ironic is that the academics who are most familiar with Joost and should have known better, we’re all convinced that is was Trump and his supporters who were suffering mass psychosis when in fact it was the reaction to Trump that was the mass psychosis.
You mean to say that Trump was right to suspend travel from China and had the world done so the lives saved would have been massive?
I doubt that would have mattered much. China had already let the virus circulate long before it told the WHO what was going on. It's not an accident that they locked down Wuhan internally, but let people from there travel internationally.
Bear in mind, China thinks NOTHING of killing millions of its own people. They could literally kill off 1/3 of their population, and they'd still be second to India. So when you have a virus that is basically an elevated flu bug, and kills mostly old, fat people but has a rate of survival well over 98% or greater otherwise, what's the big deal if you knock off a billion people worldwide without firing a shot?
And the best part is that your enemies develop vaccines, with your generous assistance of the DNA strand, of course, that crap out after six months and cause all kinds of heart problems in younger adults.
The bestest, best part, is that you can use the economic strife and fear to remove a pesky Western leader who otherwise would be exploiting the living fuck out of China's current economic woes.
Anyone think that the guys puppeting Joe have any underlying goal beyond continuing to funnel whatever cut they get from ignoring China being China?
Dang, if 'they' were really on the ball, there would be a shortage of food, fuel and ammunition, forcing dependency on the govt teat w/ no chance of resisting...
Watch. All of the modalities that make non-urban life possible---easy transportation, distributed energy, a non-confiscatory property tax regime (I'm obviously comparing us to other countries.): all of that is going to go away.
You will be de facto forced into an urban pod, and the best part!? Shitrags like this magazine will claim it's the free market doing it.
Their diagnosis was created out of equal parts projection and paranoia.
"That and to stop looking down my nose as an American to the Germans over Nazism because we are no better."
When I was a kid, there was a miniseries called "V" about alien visitors who essentially enslave humanity. I remember reading that the screenwriter's inspiration was someone telling them that "Hitler's rise could never happen in the US".
The irony of the whole thing was that in "V" the "Jews" were scientists that were unjustly setup to be persecuted (because the scientists were the biggest threat to the aliens). In fact, it has ALWAYS been the scientists (in Germany and today) whose politically motivated "research" is used to persecute the "others".
Every murderous ideology has come clothed in "Science". The idea that it is the unwashed masses who gave us fascism and communism is just a lie dreamt up by the academics and scientists who did give us those things as a way to avoid responsibility.
I'll give fundamentalist Islam, both Shia and Sunni, as a counterpoint. The smart crowd in both, e.g., Saudi and Shah Iran, didn't want any part of either. But the takeover of the Great Mosque + the overthrow of the Shah, came about largely due to the takeover the great unwashed. Now, the intelligentsia class in both countries likely was manipulating the hoi polloi for their own purposes.
You're absolutely right with respect to the 20th/21st century in the West. Communism, and this bastard cultural marxist spawn we see here, is one of the big "Good Ideas" that are absolutely irresistible to a certain cohort of the bright.
I doubt Genghis Khan was plundering half of the known world in the name of science.
-1 Tigris River running black with ink.
Have thought similar. Also dovetail the abolition movement, specifically the underground railroad in slaves stares, into the pondering.
Well, as Al Sharpton shows, democrats can get away with statements like that
Fauci, the 400K per year fraud, must be fucking fired.
Fired... Out of a cannon... Into a wall
Facebook has deemed this story as "discussable".
Facebook reaches well over 2 billion people worldwide (as Mark Zuckerberg noted during a discussion with a top federal official while discussing dissemination of official US Government information.)
This is a great day for freedom.
The chocolate ration increased!!
lol
Wait, not deadly misinformation anymore? Zuck must be pissed.
Truth is malleable?
"1 log" means a factor of 10. log(1) is 0, but that's not what was meant.
What that means is that 1 log of increase is more significant than that reviewer thought, and "gain of function" applies to fewer cases than he thought. I just sent him a message to that effect.
In microbiology growth or inactivation is measured on a logarithmic scale, usually base 10. An increase in virus by 1 log means multiplied 10 times. 2 logs would be 100-fold growth.
I thought that description of the math in the article was suspect. Thanks.
So these guys collapsed the world economy, put hundreds of millions out of work, and caused old people across the planet to die alone and frightened.
Will their punishment be a handshake and another grant, or cushy appointments to government health boards worldwide?
Worse, they will have to retire and no longer get to be big shots. They will have to write books and make big money on the rubber chicken circuit. The horror.
The heads of the nih will be fired, and then hired as consultants by Moderna and phiser for 3x their salary
If the entire system collapses, which is still unlikely, I wouldn't gamble on them lasting long. Mobs are not known for reason or compassion.
Which is why New Zealand, any of a gazillion 'nature preserve' Pacific Islands, or my dark horse pick, Chile wherever the Nature Conservancy bought up all of that land, are going to be things for these people.
They have zero intention of hanging out while pissed off Americans Make Jacobinism Great Again.
Fauci not as effective as Lois Lerner at destroying the evidence.
Why in the fuck are we funding virus anything with the Chinese?
How much have we given them to do hyper sonic missile research?
Seriously, WTF?
Your tax dollars at work
I don't think there is a case were we fund research by other countries, we fund research that is of interest to us. That research may be done by scientist in other countries. In some cases it may be done by Americans working in other countries. I recently read about and American scientist working at the Max Plank Institute in Germany, who will be doing some of the first studies with the James Web Telescope after its launch into orbit. The reality here is that a lot of research is done around the world and that research is funded and shared world wide.
All research in China is duel use. As I understand it the military is involved in everything. The fact that Americans are involved in GOF research in China does not make it harmless. And the fact that the federal government uses third parties doesn't make it any less dangerous.
All research in China is duel use.
I give this a rating of 9 Johns on the typopun scale.
Actually I can see why this sort of research would be funded. It makes sense that most new human diseases (esp animal origin) are going to originate at the edges of human/animal zones and especially zones where humans are changing it via deforestation/etc. Thousands of new infections happen every year. Most of which are evolutionary dead ends and failures. But it is useful to find out which are merely a few mutations away from being a threat.
The problem is - these folks reverted to being dishonest and covering things up with covid. Which means they are at best poorly managed and at worst corrupted by military/bioweapon goals.
It should be noted that Dr. Fauci has been willing to speak to Congress about the topic and has done so many times. This separates him from people like Steve Bannon and Donald Trump who refuse to even speak with Congress when called. You may not like Dr. Fauci but he has the courage to address issues, unlike the former President.
Dr. Fauci is a government bureaucrat whose agency and work is overseen by Congress. Steve Bannon left anything vaguely resembling public service five years ago. If you can't tell the difference between government bureaucrats and private citizens, then calling you willfully obtuse is giving you the benefit of the doubt. The next most likely explanation is that you're genuinely stupid.
Plenty of private citizens speak to Congress. Who here is being stupid?
Sure they do. But that they voluntarily speak to Congress doesn't give Congress the right to compel them.
Yes, you really are that stupid. Just stunningly stupid and dishonest.
"Plenty of private citizens speak to Congress. Who here is being stupid?"
Complaining about government bureaucrats being forced to answer to Congress is the equivalent of complaining that we live in a democracy.
Complaining about private citizens not showing up for a show trial--as if we should all be accountable to government like government we're bureaucrats--is the equivalent of complaining that our country is insufficiently authoritarian.
I assure you. Assuming you're being willfully obtuse, here, is giving you the benefit of the doubt. And it's an easy enough thing to get past. Just go look in a mirror, give yourself an uppercut, and promise yourself not to be willfully obtuse like that in the future. It will make you a better human being.
"Good Democrat voters worship authority figures"
This would be you.
M4E is a parody. Has to be.
I'm not sure I can believe that. It *was* almost OBL level if so. But it's too close to the edge to tell.
Typical shareblue fuckhead. Lying is the point. Getting so pissed off at the out and out lying, that you give up the idea of discussing issues, is the point. If they're ever intelligible, it's by accident.
I wouldn't waste my time on such a miniscule forum, if I were a rational manager of their resources, but whatever.
You may not like Dr. Fauci but he has the courage to lie about the crimes he committed, unlike the former President.
Who, Obama? Bush? Clinton?
Or do you mean Trump, then what lie exactly are you claiming?
I mean....other than the fact he's 100% lying, it's pretty honorable.
It might be more accurate to say Fauci has the courage to lie to Congress.
Speaking to Congress and lying is better than not speaking to Congress? You truly are a biased, dim person.
If Fauci, the NIH, the Biden White House, and Facebook had stayed up all night, trying to think of new and better ways to undermine the credibility of the scientific community, they couldn't have come up with anything better than the way they've acted over this. How woefully incompetent! Dr. Fauci's job is to be the credible voice of the scientific community, and he is no longer a credible voice in any way. Why hasn't the Biden administration thanked him for his service and turned off Fauci's microphone already? Every day Fauci remains with the NIH, he hurts its credibility even further. We should never believe anything just because of the credentials of the person who says it, and you'd have to be an ignoramus or an idiot to believe what Dr. Fauci says about anything.
Fauci's job is to be a lightning rod. He pisses off all the right people, and so the Biden administration is happy to leave him there to give the barest patina of scientific credibility to what is actually a cynical effort to continue the KULTURE WARZ into perpetuity.
It strains all credibility that he actually believes we need to tripple-vax-double-mask-socially-lockdown forever. He says it so that the Storm Tweeters have ammunition whenever Biden declares some new mandate to get bad news off the front page.
Fauci's real job is to say and do anything to keep taxpayer money flowing into research institutions, and he was afraid that if we knew the truth about this, the $47 billion (from memory) that the NIH doles out every year to research institutions might be in jeopardy.
That's my read.
I can think of a much more direct way to undermine the credibility of science: run endless hysterical conspiracy theories on FOX News (incidentally, the most vaccinated workplace in America).
You don't want to be informed. You want people to die so you can blame the nearest Democrat.
run endless hysterical conspiracy theories on FOX News
That just it so happens are really true.
Tony is incapable of critical thinking.
"Dr. Fauci’s job is to be the credible voice of the scientific community..."
After he fucked up the HIV problem as badly as he did? I mean, I guess it fits, given the credibility we should be giving the Federal Government, but still...
I like the, "he's a lightning rod," theory. Not like lightning is going to strike.
Turn off the Fauci? Where will we get our leaks? (I’ve got a sinking feeling about this!)
Seriously though- is ANYONE FUCKING SURPRISED?
EcoHealth Alliance, people. ECOHEALTH ALLIANCE.
When I first read the Vanity Fair article that broke this whole story open, I went to my wife and said, "Hey honey", I says, "If I told you there was this foundation called the EcoHealth Alliance, run by a reclusive billionaire, responsible for channeling funds for virus research around the world, what would you think is going on?"
Without any context (she isn't political), my wife says "I'd say they are a bunch of environmentalist nuts trying to develop a super virus that will depopulate the planet. Why? Is this a new movie plot or something?"
Really, why are we shocked?
Wise lady, your wife.
The only surprise has been how far so many have been willing to go to obfuscate.
Trump's swamp sounds more plausible with each new spoiler.
Exactly, see my "book-report" elsewhere on this thread.
New? Sounds like the plot of Rainbow Six to me.
You guys are months and months behind this story. WE HAVE THE FUCKING RECIPTS!
So, NOW I am completely confused: Is the pandemic "real" or just a government invention? Or is it really "just like the flu" and the government is overstating it's danger to health? Or is Covid-19 an invention of the Chinese government? Or did we pay the Chinese government to develop Covid-19? Or maybe there really are Chinese-made chips in the vaccine (paid for by Bill Gates) ... and on and on and on......
If this was a fictional story, is it Science Fiction? Or Armageddon? Or just Farce?
Damn I am tired of this crap.
It basically is just like the flu if you are young and healthy (less than the flue), but hell if you are old.
And so most of the problems have been caused by the overreaction, since it mostly only affects old, obese, and sick people.
And it probably was created by the Chinese government and accidentally released, and while we didn't fund it directly, we funded the experience their scientists got in altering the virus
Old, obese, and sick people aren't really people. Fuck 'em. Just taking up space.
And too much of it.
Take it up with China, then, shitheap.
Not according to Fauci and Cuomo.
Your brain probably has actual holes in it because of your shitty media diet.
I read a few of your posts so on this we can agree.
Did you already memory hole that Cuomo shoved sick people back into places with the most vulnerable?
I thought it was a harmless flu.
A few weeks ago week I read a post-apocalyptic series of novels.It probably falls into the "young adult dystopia" genre, like Hunger Games. I'm not a "young adult", but hey, I read a lot.
Written in 2017 and set not too many years into the future, the story-line follows a group of people who survived a cruise ship hijacking only to find themselves in the middle of a plague that kills 99% of the world's population in a few weeks.
It seems that the world was already suffering from the "bat-flu" pandemic, and a group of billionaires and the US government (which seems to be owned by the billionaires) were tired of the riff-raff being able to move about freely, and the bat-flu checkpoints, force quarantines, etc., were being protested by "New Patriots" (a group of which also turned out to be the terrorists who attacked the cruise ship...maybe) and the general population.
One of the billionaire's companies manufactured a "universal flu vaccine" to combat the bat-flu, and gave millions of doses away on a "National Day of Health".
But they had also engineered a new virus, which they intentionally gave to 100,000 "undesirables" during that event, in the hopes that the mass deaths (despite most people wearing masks and gloves all the time already) would give them the cover they needed to pass the "Safe and Secure Act" and force everyone to be fitted with a chip that provides instant access to health (infection) status and "contact tracing", but more importantly would give government (and the corporate overlords) constant tracking/surveillance of everyone.
All in the name of "health" and "security", of course.
But oops. The engineered virus mutated in those also infected with the "bat flu" and becomes a "Captain Tripps-like, kills-everyone" kind of virus. Hijinks ensue.
I posted this same "book-report" on the Facebook, and it promptly got tagged with the COVID misinformation warning label.
Found this after my note above. Not sure Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six counts as 'young adult dystopia', but I'm sure the plot has been rehashed endlessly.
"why did it take so long for top NIH bureaucrats to get around to asking EcoHealth and the Wuhan Institute of Virology to disclose exactly what they were up to?"
Because any answers they provide will be uncomfortable at best.
Same reason that CDC stopped tracking breakthrough cases. Same reason OSHA is not enforcing laws requiring employers to report negative side effects of mandatory vaccine injections.
Can't create bad press from bad numbers if no one tracks the numbers in the first place. Don't ask questions you already know the answers to but are embarrassed to have made public.
Why waste your breath asking questions to which you've known the answer for over a year?
Fauci engineered a biological weapon that's just a harmless flu? He IS incompetent.
He didn’t do it. He funded it.
Idiot.
Bush was both evil genius and chimp.
Nobody ever thought he was a genius.
Oh right. Darth Cheney was running the show.
Was there something about the Bush administration that rings positive to you? Was it the wars justified by lies, the torture of prisoners, or the global economic collapse?
Point of order...the Iraq War was a fully bi-partisan deal. Check out the House and Senate roll calls for the votes on the Iraq War. Pretty much every prominent Democrat voted in favor of the actions, including Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Harry Reid, and Joe Biden.
In the House, 82 (39.2%) of 209 Democratic Representatives voted for the resolution.
Indeed, in the Senate Democrats could have stymied the whole thing if they had not gone over to the other side on the vote. It passed 77-23, but 29 (58%) of 50 Democratic senators voted for the resolution. If Democrats had voted as a bloc against the war, it would not have passed (i.e., resolution fails 48-52).
Senate Democrats voting for the resolution were:
Sens. Baucus (D-MT), Bayh (D-IN), Biden (D-DE), Breaux (D-LA), Cantwell (D-WA), Carnahan (D-MO), Carper (D-DE), Cleland (D-GA), Clinton (D-NY), Daschle (D-SD), Dodd (D-CT), Dorgan (D-ND), Edwards (D-NC), Feinstein (D-CA), Harkin (D-IA), Hollings (D-SC), Johnson (D-SD), Kerry (D-MA), Kohl (D-WI), Landrieu (D-LA), Lieberman (D-CT), Lincoln (D-AR), Miller (D-GA), Nelson (D-FL), Nelson (D-NE), Reid (D-NV), Rockefeller (D-WV), Schumer (D-NY), and Torricelli (D-NJ).
It's always amused me how people can hold simultaneously in their head the view that GWB was an idiot bumbling his way through life while simultaneously being an evil genius mastermind who somehow snookered dozens of prominent Democrats to authorize his wars and then keep running them for decades after he was out of office!
Yeah, a lot of Democrats were bullied into supporting said war justified with lies, and shame on them.
Poor sarc. His effort to saddle up with lefties, because he’s that desperate for allies, has hit a dead end.
Fauci engineered a biological weapon that’s just a harmless flu? He IS incompetent.
No. He funded gain-of-function research in a hostile foreign country and then lied to Congress about it.
^ This
And conservatives are currently spreading said disease purely for tantrum purposes. I'll take the devil I know over insane disease-ridden freaks.
“And conservatives are currently spreading said disease purely for tantrum purposes.”
Cite?
He doesn’t have one cause he’s bigger partisan fuck than White Retard.
One thing to consider: we have a vaccine for the flu. We have flu-specific medications (e.g., Tamiflu). We have some herd immunity to the flu. We do not usually see flu victims overwhelm the medical system. And flu still manages to kill 30-50k people most every year.
We had no vaccine for the COVID. We have no COVID-specific medications. We have no herd immunity for COVID. COVID was close to overwhelming some parts of the healthcare system.
And with all that, COVID is only killing 2-3x more than flu (except in over 80 demographic, where it is 10x)? Punk-ass virus. With our woeful defense against it, COVID ought to be running up the score like Georgia Tech vs Cumberland.
What's his face with the radio program and website who's been saying this the whole time was right the whole time but did Reason listen? Nooooo.
So broken.
Has The List gone to twice a day, now?
One of you asked the question a day or so ago, "Why keep coming back to some area where you feel bad, take abuse, give abuse, and people are telling you to your face that they no longer wish to hear from you?"
I don't get it. Not that I spend much time here anymore, these days.
Fauci got what he spent a career pursuing - a worldwide pandemic, millions of deaths, and people looking to him to save them.
And why don't more people understand why science and government should never be combined?
The real scandal, of course, is that Trump canceled this research days before the pandemic started.
I know the real scandal isn't that somebody lied. Trump lies every time he speaks. Bret Weinstein lies for a living. Lying is not a problem to you conspiracy nuts.
^More lies.
“The real scandal, of course, is that Trump canceled this research days before the pandemic started.”
What research?
Some of the more prominent pandemic experts met at The Milken Institute and focused on the next pandemic. This is from 2019, four months before the pandemic.
SPEAKERS
Rick Bright Director Department of Health and Human Services-Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority
Anthony S. Fauci M.D. DirectorNational Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases
Bruce Gellin President Sabin Vaccine Institute
Margaret “Peggy” A. Hamburg M.D.Foreign SecretaryNational Academy of Sciences-National Academy of Medicine
Michael Specter Staff Writer New Yorker Magazine
Original full video
https://www.c-span.org/video/?465845-1/universal-flu-vaccine
Sorry for the all-caps, that's the way to transcript is provided...
[not fauci]
AS PART OF MY LIFE I TEACH AT STANFORD AND PEOPLE USE THIS WORD IN SILICON VALLEY WHICH I MOSTLY HATE BUT I'M GOING TO USE IT NOW. DISRUPTION READ WHY DON'T WE BLOW THE SYSTEM UP ? OBVIOUSLY WE CAN'T JUST TURN OFF THE SPIGOT ON THE SYSTEM WE HAVE AND SAY EVERYONE IN THE WORLD SHOULD GET THIS FLU VACCINE WE HAVEN'T GIVEN TO ANYONE YET BUT THERE MUST BE SOME WAY THAT WE GROW VACCINES MOSTLY IN EGGS THE WAY WE DID IN 1947 . WE LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE I CAN DOWNLOAD WHATEVER SONG I WANT ONTO MY PHONE AT COMMAND AND WE GROW VACCINES THE WAY WE DID 70 YEARS AGO . WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THAT?
[fauci]
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
AND MARK DON'T VACCINATE PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY HAD ENOUGH PROBLEMS WITH MALARIA AND TUBERCULOSIS AND YOU BOLA SO IT IS A PERCEPTION WHICH IS A MISPERCEPTION THAT IT IS NOT A SERIOUS DISEASE. BUT IT'S AS CASEY SAID HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE DIE OF EACH YEAR AND WHEN YOU GET A PANDEMIC, MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE. SO WE REALLY DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HOW THE WORLD PERCEIVES INFLUENZA AND IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT TO CHANGE THAT UNLESS YOU DO IT FROM WITHIN AND SAY I DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR, WHERE TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEM IN A DISRUPTIVE WAY AND AN ITERATIVE BECAUSE YOU WILL . IN THE ON OVERTIME, AMORTIZED 2009 HUNDRED AND 70, WITH HAVE ENDED UP BEING A BETTER THING FOR YOU MARK X NO. BECAUSE I'M IN, WE HAD A , NOT SIMPLY A AS SERIOUS AS THE 1918, BUT WE HAD A PRETTY BAD PANDEMIC IN 1957 AND 1968 . THAT DIDN'T CHANGE MUCH.
[not fauci]
ABSOLUTELY THE SAD TRUTH IS WHEN THERE'S A MAJOR CRISIS THE FOCUS IS ATTENTION AND USUALLY RESOURCES AND SOME SIGNIFICANT MOBILIZATION POLICY. IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT WE ARE USING RESOURCES AND THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE THOUGH BECAUSE IT DONE IN THE MOMENT OF CRISIS. AND THERE'S THROWING MONEY AT THINGS THAT SOUNDS GOOD WITHOUT ME AND THEM BEING THOUGHT THROUGH AND THEN THERE'S WHAT WE USED TO CALL THE U-SHAPED CURVE OF CONCERN WHERE INITIAL INCREASE IN RESOURCES AND THEN WHEN THE PROBLEM STAYS AND OTHER PROBLEMS EMERGE INSTEAD, EVERYTHING DROPS OFF .
[not fauci]
I'M NOT GOING TO SAY WE ARE FAR AWAY BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S TOO CRAZY. IF WE WENT TOWARDS THE AREA OF SYNTHETIC-BASED VACCINES AND REMOVE THE DEPENDENCY OF MAKING THE VACCINE HAS TO BE SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO GROW INTO SOMETHING ELSE AND EGG OR SELL OR AN INSECT CELL OR ANY DEPENDENCY ON GROWTH IF WE CAN MOVE INTO MORE SYNTHETIC MESSENGER RNA BASE THOSE SEQUENCES CAN BE GRAPHICALLY SHARED AROUND THE WORLD. IN TIMES THAT CAN SYNTHESIZE THE SMALL FRAGMENTS OF MESSENGER RNA CAN BE MADE IN A SHOEBOX SIZED SYSTEM RIGHT NOW WHICH IS TRANSLATABLE INTO A 3-D PRINTER OR INJECT PRINTER. PUTTING THOSE IN A SYSTEM TO PRINT THOSE A SELF ADMINISTERED VACCINE COULD HAPPEN THAT TECHNOLOGIES ARE OUT THERE. WE HAVEN'T DEMONSTRATED THE TRUE EFFECTIVENESS AND ABILITY OF THE VACCINE BUT IT'S NOT TOO CRAZY TO THINK THAT AN OUTBREAK OF A NOVEL AVIAN VIRUS THAT OCCUR IN CHINA SOMEWHERE, WE COULD GET THIS RNA SEQUENCE FROM BAD AND BEAM IT TO A NUMBER OF REGIONAL CENTERS IF NOT LOCAL AND IT'S NOT EVEN IN YOUR HOME AT SOME POINT IN. THOSE VACCINES AND SELF ADMINISTERED. THE TECHNOLOGY IS THERE TO BE ADAPTED AND ASSEMBLED AND PUT INTO THAT FUTURISTIC VIEW OF RAPID RESPONSE TO AN EMERGING THREAT.
Great contributions to this thread, mpercy. Posts like these are why I still bother visiting here.
This conference transcript isn't from the same 2019 Gates Institute conference where responses to a global coronavirus pandemic were wargamed, was it?
IN TIMES THAT CAN SYNTHESIZE THE SMALL FRAGMENTS OF MESSENGER RNA CAN BE MADE IN A SHOEBOX SIZED SYSTEM RIGHT NOW WHICH IS TRANSLATABLE INTO A 3-D PRINTER OR INJECT PRINTER.
Number 1: You mean like how, on Star Trek, they always solve a problem using a metaphor, science-y jargon, and a device that doesn't exist but they can convince the audience it should?
Geordi: Yeah! You know that just might work!
The Science of the 24th Century today!
Anthony Fauci should be fired and put on trial.
He committed perjury by lying to Congress and the public, but also for allowing/promoting the gain of function research in his role as NIAID Director.
As more time proceeds it becomes more and more apparent that Anthony Fauci is a nefarious character.
FDS - Fauci Derangement Syndrome. Never mind that the research was not the cause of Covid. Never mind that this kind of research is probably going on in a hundred other labs around the country. Let's pick apart Fauci's definition of gain-of-function forever. What a waste. But hey, I got a refresher on Logs. That's nice.
So why did he lie about the funding?
What is evident from all of these comments is that most people believe exactly what they want to believe. No amount of evidence is going to change that, and our media certainly isn't going to help.
Tribes come first.
Government made Human Plague?
Because that's what Nazi-Governments do...........
Time to push the Nazi's out and restore the USA.
Response to this government cover up or lack of transparency, which ever you prefer -
The right
"This proves that Rand Paul was correct! Investigate Fauci and apologize to Rand!"
Reason, ostensibly a libertarian magazine
"Well there's evidence gain of function research did occur after all. Huh, I wonder what will happen"
If you ain't gonna fight for your people, your movement ain't gonna last. The immigrants you love so much will convert to Trump's brand of nationalism before they convert to libertarianism.
"a log of 1 of any number is that same exact number (2^1 = 2) and therefore log 1 simply indicates no growth."
Well yes but "a one log increase" would be more like a change from 2x10^3 = 2,000 to 2*10^4 = 20,000 and would therefore be a tenfold increase. Naturally that assumes a base 10 log but technically it could be base 2, base e, etc.
“The real scandal, of course, is that Trump canceled this research days before the pandemic started.”
What research?
Ya, umm, funny thing there about this blather pretending to be a serious article, I'm not seeing "SARS-CoV-2" being mentioned.
"You have no idea WTF you are even yammering on about. That study was for a totally different pathogen and is 'normal research sh!t' not some hidden conspiracy.
"Coronavirus" is a "generic term" that covers a whole host of pathogens. Just because those who are ignorant when it comes to "the nuts and bolts of Virology" throw generic terms around, does not mean that you know WTF you are talking about.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1306801/
Coronaviruses are a family of enveloped, single-stranded, positive-strand RNA viruses classified within the Nidovirales order. This coronavirus family consists of pathogens of many animal species and of humans, including the recently isolated severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV). . .
The pause started in the Obama Administration was lifted in 2017 by the Trump Administration, nothing illegal about the start up. The end of the pause was in the papers. The problem is not that it wasn't reported it more likely that President Trump found it hard to read (lots of big words).
It’s the lying. That’s the real problem.
And that's looking past the parts of it that are just abjectly stupid and wrong or only tangentially related to the facts in hand. A century ago, when you got up, swept the chickens off the porch, stroll between the pigpens, and fetched water from the creek, like everyone else you knew, it may've made sense that the wilderness was the likely place to encounter an infection like none humanity had ever seen before. Nowadays it's like saying the people most likely to contract novel infections are the people who clean bathrooms. Not only are the trappers and mountain men of old no longer the primary sources of novel infections, the infections in question aren't novel in the sense that they used to be. We have decades, if not centuries, of experience with the flu and coronaviruses. Statistically speaking, by his own precepts, the most likely place for new variants to arise are the places where the most (infected, vaccinated or not) people are.
Overt gives a rundown above, deforestation in Saudi Arabia upset the environment and gave rise to a variant? The regions of Hong Kong where people live in untamed wilderness gave rise to a new flu virus?
JFree is playing armchair virologist and not even doing a very good job of it.
I have a sneaking suspicion that Fauci will be "inexplicably" absent from the Sunday talks this week.
Statistically speaking, by his own precepts, the most likely place for new variants to arise are the places where the most (infected, vaccinated or not) people are.
This isn't merely about current variants of SARS-CoV2. It is about every possible zoonotic origin disease (plague, rabies, salmonellosis and the e coli and diarrheal diseases, influenza, other coronavirus, Ebola, West Nile, anthrax, echinococcosis and other worm/parasite diseases, sleeping sickness, encephalitis, typhus, HIV, tularemia, measles, diphtheria, tuberculosis, human versions of mad cow, brucellosis, cryptosporidiosis, hemorrhagic fevers, leprosy, leishmaniasis, Lyme, smallpox, Zika, etc).
But hey I'm sure you and the Baboon and scientists of the Republican Party have a much better handle on medicine since you are in direct contact with God via Bishop Ussher. BTW - Congratulations. Today is apparently New Years Eve of the year of our Lord's creation of 6025. Have a wonderful time celebrating the new year by seeing whether a duck weighs the same as a witch.
This isn’t merely about current variants of SARS-CoV2. It is about every possible zoonotic origin disease
First, that's what I meant when I said "only tangentially related to the facts in hand". You don't actually give a shit if anyone dies of COVID or Brucellosis except to say that, through some oxymoronic mental gymnastics, supports your point.
Second, you said "new". Plague, rabies, e coli, influenza, worms, typhus, measles, diptehria, TB, brucellosis, cryptosporidea, leprosy, smallpox, etc., etc. are not new.
You don't actually care about science, you just want to justify research that kills people.
Well I am certainly glad there are no 'new' zoonotic diseases. Only the old ones. Presumably created by the Lord and saved from the Flood by being sent 2x2 by Noah into the ark.
Question though. While I understand all of these old zoonotic diseases were cisheterosexual sent 2x2 into the ark. But what about transgender zoonotic diseases or polyamorous zoonotic diseases? Was there a sign on Noah's ark saying only 2x2 zoonotic diseases may enter. No transgender 1x1s or polyamorous (and probably Mormon) 3+x3+ may enter.
I gotta say, I'm blown away at your ability to stupify yourself. I freely admit I couldn't have done better. I'd say that my hat's off and I'm impressed but to stupify yourself in such a manner in defense of research that inadvertently killed millions of people is really just reprehensible.
Bret and Eric believe that between the two of them plus Bret's wife, they were cheated of three Nobel prizes.
Those people are insane grifters, son. Screw your head on.