Vaccines

FDA Advisory Panel Votes Against Biden's Proposed Broad COVID-19 Booster Shot Rollout

It did recommend authorizing boosters for those over age 65

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The Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) scientific advisory committee voted 16 to 2 against recommending booster shots for people who were inoculated with the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine more than eight months ago. The FDA is not obliged to follow the panel's recommendations, but typically does so.

This is a big setback for President Joe Biden's plan announced back in August to roll out COVID-19 booster shots for most Americans beginning next week. The panel did recommend authorizing a booster shot for recipients of the Pfizer/BioNTech coronavirus vaccine who are 65 or older or are at high risk of severe cases of COVID-19.

The panelists opposed to a broader booster shot plan argued that most current evidence suggests that the vaccine remains effective at preventing severe cases of the illness. That's great, but why not use booster shots to protect people against mild cases of the illness and prevent the spread of the virus to other people? Israeli researchers provided evidence to the panel that the rates of severe disease were around 10-fold lower among those who received a third Pfizer/BioNTech shot compared to those who did not.

With respect to the need for COVID-19 booster shots, back in May, Moderna CEO Stéphane Bancel observed, "I think as a country we should rather be two months too early, than two months too late with outbreaks in several places."

Let's hope that the FDA advisers have not set us up for being two months too late.

NEXT: A New Report on the Aurora, Colorado, Police Department Documents a Pattern of Excessive Force and Racial Disparities

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  1. FUCK JOE BIDEN

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    2. That Jill Biden’s job.

      Your job — like that of all whining, disaffected, obsolete clingers — is to continue to comply with the preferences of your betters.

      Until you are replaced.

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  2. This is a big setback for President Joe Biden’s plan announced back in August to roll out COVID-19 booster shots for most Americans beginning next week.

    You know what else Biden said he would or would not do recently?

    1. Act in our best interest?

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      1. France upset the deal they had with Australia was torpedoed.

          1. So I should give this issue silent service?

        1. They were underwater on the deal.

    2. Hitler? (OK, for the purposes of this round that’s now a verb too)

    3. Remember shit?

  3. That’s great, but why not use booster shots to protect people against mild cases of the illness and prevent the spread of the virus to other people?
    Because some people in the world have had none.

    1. The booster shot has no evidence of helping to prevent spread.

      Likewise the main reason the FDA turned away the application is the lack of safety data accompanying the booster shot.

      1. So is Jesse defending the FDA now?

        1. Lol. God you are pathetic. Cite on which comment of mine you think you’re referring to?

          I simply explained their decision dumbfuck.

        2. Hey, chemjeff’s back.
          His mom must’ve caved and started paying for the WiFi again.

  4. This is so cool. It’s wonderful to see the government in action. First they beg us to get vaccinated. Then they threaten us with forced vaccination. Then they tell the majority of the population that you can’t get the booster. Indeed. What a puppet show.

    1. This will give our country a real “shot in the arm”.

    2. Are they? Or are they setting suggested guidelines and giving the Federal government guidance on whether to pay for a third dose foe particular demographics?

      Can’t a doctor prescribe a third dose if they see it as warranted, just like a doctor could prescribe ivermectin?

      1. Yes, they are.

      2. For the benefit of the thread, arguing with Mike is arguing with someone who will never take responsibility for what he says. In fact, within days he will be acting as if he never said these things in the first place. He is a completely disingenuous adversary and you would do better arguing with the main character from Memento.

        https://reason.com/2021/09/09/california-is-set-to-outlaw-unannounced-condom-removal/#comment-9091773

        That is Mike insisting that he “would never look to Rolling Stone” for news, after spreading their bogus ivermectin story only days earlier. Consider that: He didn’t apologize. He didn’t even try to ignore his mistake. He brazenly tried to dunk on Rolling Stone to make himself look like an arbiter of truth.

        The pathological narcissism required to disrespect the truth and readers so heavily should make him ashamed. It won’t though, so I advise others in the thread to avoid engaging with someone that argues in such bad faith.

    3. Seems like the perfect market opportunity. Seems like there is plenty of demand for boosters and plenty of supply from people who don’t want these experimental injections who each have one or two doses they can give.

    1. Guess who gets stuck with the tab?

    2. “Needless boosters?”

      Even if you think they are “needless,” why should the government be people they can’t get them?

      1. “be telling people”

      2. The vaccine is a pig in a poke.

        1. A shot in the dark, if you will.

        2. Chumby:

          I guess you think I am a fool for believing the vaccine is effective.
          And I think you are a fool for believing otherwise.
          Neither of this really matters.

          What matters is that the government should not force the vaccine on people who don’t want it. Nor should it be withheld from people who do.

          1. Who is going to do the sciencing if not SleepyJoe and crew?

          2. I’m punning. Presently unvaccinated. And no lifestyle changes. Agree completely with your second paragraph.

            1. Please get vaccinated.

              1. Do you imagine he would let you fuck him in the ass if you asked nicely?

              2. Why?

                Have you done at least a cursory examination of his medical history?

              3. Or don’t, and if you get it and are at risk get mono antibodies. No mrna altering your cells required. Just direct synthesized antibodies that target two separate proteins in the virus, not one like the vaccine, and they’re the same as your body would make against a natural infection.

            2. “I’m punning. Presently unvaccinated. And no lifestyle changes. Agree completely with your second paragraph.”

              Cool.

              1. Ditto what Chumby said. JG – I may disagree with your choice, but you never post anything that violates Libertarian principles. Different opinions within our tent are welcome.

                Totalitarian, fascists fucks like Tony, Mike, Joe Friday and Molly, they can fuck off slavers.

                1. You said Mike twice.

                  1. haha, you made me look.

                    1. Look at morning thread regarding Joe Friday.

                    2. Cup of morning Joe?

          3. I guess you think I am a fool for believing the vaccine is effective.

            Depends on what you think is effective.

            The vaccines don’t kill a lot of people and are proven to mitigate symptoms of COVID. Any other claim is as scientifically dubious as cloth masks reducing transmission. All the vaccines were tested under peak lockdown, which is proving to have been garbage science.

            1. Over the last month, in our State, the figures are as below:

              Of reported cases,

              85% of new cases are un-vaccinated individuals.’

              15% are breakthrough cases. Of those 15%, 25% (IIRC) are of folks who had not yet received their second jab.

              Of cases requiring hospitalization, 94% were unvaccinated individuals.

              Note of course, that since it is primarily younger folks who are being infected, the number of serious cases is way down, as are the number of deaths.

              In other words, the vaccine is working pretty much as one would expect a vaccine to work. Your typical seasonal flu vaccines are effect from a few to several months. Why would the Covid vaccine be any different?

              1. Of reported cases,

                What about the unreported cases? Statisticians may not give a shit, but science requires an estimate of those as well.

                My vaccinated wife’s symptoms could easily have been mistaken for allergies and she already gets migraines. The only reason she got tested was because I tested positive.

                In other words, the vaccine is working pretty much as one would expect a vaccine to work. Your typical seasonal flu vaccines are effect from a few to several months. Why would the Covid vaccine be any different?

                The public expected a typical vaccine like the vaccines for polio, measles, or even chicken pox. You know, vaccines that actually work at preventing infection and reducing transmission.

                Save a trip—get your flu shot and other recommended vaccines in one visit. Talk to your local pharmacist to learn more. To schedule a vaccine appointment by phone, call your local pharmacy or 1-800-WALGREENS (1-800-925-4733).

                Walgreens, like most of the Americans they are advertising to, calls it a flu SHOT. They even note to get other VACCINES at the same visit. You know why? Because as often as not, you get the flu anyway. So they describe it differently.

                1. “What about the unreported cases? Statisticians may not give a shit, but science requires an estimate of those as well.”

                  You are absolutely correct. And if the f’ing FDA would have gotten out the of way, and we had readily available home-tests, even if not “perfect,” we would have a very good idea of the number of mild- or asymptomatic cases, and therefor the number of people with “natural resistance” and a much better grasp of the state of things. About the only thing that went well through this was Trump’s initial funding for the development of the vaccine.

                  1. That was a great response. I agree with everything you said there.

                    1. “That was a great response. I agree with everything you said there.”

                      Damn. Damn. I must be doing something wrong!!! (joke)

                  2. Also recognize per the atlantic article, 40% of “hospitalizations” are mild cases that are quickly released. Who, based on media narrative, is more likely to go to a hospital if they think they have covid?

                    1. “Also recognize per the atlantic article, 40% of “hospitalizations” are mild cases that are quickly released.”

                      Yep.

                2. Why should anyone care about your wife’s anecdote being significant in a statistical sense?

                  1. It being an anecdote doesn’t mean that it isn’t widely true.

                    The plural of anecdote is data.

                  2. Why would anyone care about your advice to have a medical procedure done?

              2. Your typical seasonal flu vaccines are effect from a few to several months. Why would the Covid vaccine be any different?

                My guess is that is exactly the nail they are going to hit because that’s the only hammer the CDC owns.

                If they think they can make it through this upcoming winter with the under-65’s and no booster for them and final approval for all ages, then they will figure out how to update the vaccine for new variants and try to anticipate which variants will pop up next. This will be an annual event – with covid being a significantly deadlier problem than seasonal flu for retirees. Basically a predator culling the herd of blue hairs and helping to solve SS/Medicare funding problems.

                1. That’s what it was developed to do.

              3. No, it’s not working pretty much as I expect a vaccine to work. Don’t know anyone in my life vaccinated against polio, smallpox, measles, diptheria, etc and so on and so forth, who got a “mild case” of the disease. I expect a vaccine to stop a disease, cold, with few vaccine failures. Oh, the new Ingsoc dictionary has replaced “vaccine failure” with “Breakthrough infection”.

                I also expect a vaccine to last more than 6 months. And, by the way, to not cause my body to first manufacture a known pathogen – the spike protein- so my body then can react to ONE part of the virus causing the covidiocy panic.

                1. Chicken pox is about 90% effective and wanes over time. If you are exposed you almost always get a milder case. We just don’t have much of it around.

                  The DTaP vaccine is about 80% effective and wanes over time.

                  The Covid vaccines are not unusual especially considering the nature of the critter we are dealing with.

                  1. Chicken pox is about 90% effective and wanes over time.

                    Chicken pox vaccine lasts for DECADES.

                    The DTaP vaccine is about 80% effective and wanes over time.

                    DTaP lasts for about 5 years. Not 6-8 months.

                2. I am trying to wrap my head around what a mild case of polio would look like.

                  Would you just lose function in one leg and not both?

                  1. There is a wide clinical presentation ranging from a self limiting flu like illness to death. The majority with the disease are asymptomatic.

            2. https://twitter.com/VikeKang/status/1439011760862867456

              Vaccines kill more than you save when you count other stuff too, not just covid.

              1. Yeah, ucla just did a study showing the rate of hospitalizations in males ages 12-18 for myocarditis after the Vax was 160/1,000,000. And myocarditis is a lifelong issue that will cause lasting damage even in young people. The rate of hospitalization from covid in that age group is 26/1,000,000. So a male aged 12-17 is six times more likely to be hospitalized from the vaccine than from the disease its supposed to treat.

                https://gript.ie/new-study-vaccine-side-effects-6-times-more-dangerous-than-covid-19-hospitalisation-for-teenage-boys/

                1. There have been as of 9/11/2021 469 children ages 0 to 17 who have died of COVID since January 2020.

                  There are 74+ million children in the US. So 6 in 1,000,000 children have died and that doesn’t even take into account that likely in many cases these kids unfortunately had cancer or other co-morbidities that exasperated their illness.

                  If I was a parent, why would I have my children take some rushed experimental injection with a higher likelihood of maiming my kid than saving them from death? The problem the public has been misinformed of the risks to the point where they believe way more people have been hospitalized and died than actual have and as a result fear overrides any critical thinking.

          4. I have no strong opinion either way. If you want to get vaccinated, do so. If not, don’t. It is essentially a prophylactic at this point. Of youre over 70, then you should. Under 60? Same as not getting a flu shot based on stats. Less likely to die than driving to work daily.

            Losing weight is far more beneficial on overall health risk assessment than simply getting a shot. So if you’re out there yelling at people to get shots then you really should be out there yelling at people to eat right and exercise. For more beneficial.

            Let people take the various anti viral if they get sick, they seemingly help quite a bit in most studies.

            1. “I have no strong opinion either way. If you want to get vaccinated, do so. If not, don’t. It is essentially a prophylactic at this point. Of youre over 70, then you should. Under 60? Same as not getting a flu shot based on stats. ”

              Sounds good.

            2. Medicals have been touting those things since ancient times.

              Galen wrote “ The form of exercise most deserving of our attention is therefore that which has the capacity to provide health of the body, harmony of the parts, and virtue in the soul; and all these things are true of the exercise with the small ball.”

              That does not exclude anything else to combat disease.

              I agree with you. Take the vaccine or dont.

              Remdesivir has been shown to reduce hospitalization time from 15 days to 10. That is good but I would rather reduce my chances of being there in the first place.

      3. I think all this panel is doing is making recommendations.

        1. I have a recommendation.

  5. Jen Pataki Year 2026: “This spike of 17 new cases and 2 deaths is a national crisis caused by those who failed to get their 6th booster shot. President Fauci has now ordered all food purveyors to give a booster shot to all customers before they are allowed to check out their groceries. Those refusing will be forcibly jabbed and sent to the Insurrectionist Re-education camps. This mandate does not, of course, apply to those immigrants who entered this country without papers and have been relocated to your former master bedroom.”

    1. Much easier to argue against an exaggeration than what is actually going on.

      1. Mirror, mirror…

      2. Requiring any vaccine just to patronize a public establishment was once considered an exaggeration.

  6. OT in other news France recalled their ambassador from the US, for the first time since we’ve been a nation.

    Senile Joe continues to torch relationships with friends, and shake hands with enemies.

    I had thought we’d last a few more decades. I have to revise my estimate we may not last the decade.

    1. Yes, it is amazing that everything they accused Trump of possibly causing, e.g. breaking our alliances while cozying up to our opponents, is what actually is happening under Biden and you barely hear a peep.
      The French didn’t even withdraw diplomats during the Quasi-War.

      1. Reuters has more context on this.

        This is more about France assuming the EU presidency in a couple months (which won’t happen again for 15 years) and the EU discussions about having an EU army and being less dependent on NATO. France has been pushing this for decades. The Afghanistan stuff moved this up to the front of discussion. France has always been pushing for a NATO alternative. It followed its own path (esp on everything nuclear) ever since DeGaulle. Didn’t rejoin as full member until 2009. Even today – France does NOT commit its nuclear subs to NATO. Britain is now out of EU and thus viewed by France as America’s poodle.

        Yes – there’s a lot to unravel here and some posing.

        1. Here’s an article from France24 of how this is all timed perfectly for France’s push for EU army during its Presidency. Just before the AUKAS announcement in fact, Macron had announced the EU army would be his focus during his EU term.

          1. Like I said, this is a lot about the fall out from Afghanistan. There was no support for a European Army with most member states before Afghanistan. After Afghanistan, many of our European allies have officially gone on the record questioning how much they can depend upon America now.

            1. Macron’s article about the Macron Doctrine was written last year. The issue re Afghanistan is NOT that our withdrawal was incompetent. It is that they (EU) didn’t have the airlift capability to remain in Afghanistan independent of the US. When the US decided to leave, the EU had to as well. The EU DOES do nation-building. It is in fact a major reason why they might someday have the will to deploy an EU army.

              1. The EU thing is more than our airlift capabilities. Biden failed to seek advice from our allies from the moment he decided to withdraw. He said he did, but they say bullshit he didn’t. He closed Bagram without letting them know. They advised him not to set an August 31st deadline, he ignored them. They asked him not to stick to the deadline, he stuck to it. Over a quarter of those evacuated were on allied flights, he never thanked our allies and took credit for their work. The Afghanistan withdrawal was disorganized and they are mad because Biden acted unilaterally, claimed he was working with them, when they felt he wasn’t, and because he refused to extend his own self imposed deadline. They felt abandoned and dictated to by the Biden administration. And many have officially gone on the record and stated as much. The Macron doctrine was a pipe dream, but because how ill used our allies felt, it has a chance. Macron wasn’t likely to hurt US relations pushing it, now he is obviously not afraid to strain our relationship even more.

                1. I’m not disputing what you’re saying about Afghanistan – but the European perspective is different because in fact they and we had different goals not just disagreements about how to achieve a common goal.

                  The Macron doctrine was a pipe dream

                  Well he called the article that so I’m certain he’s got enough ego to see it as more than that. Plus – honestly – I think an independent EU Army would be a good thing. For the US itself. We are arrogant as fuck when it comes to foreign policy. We need a world that is a bit more complex than enemies and poodles.

                  1. If history is any forecaster, whenever Europe starts playing around with building continental alliances, it generally doesn’t end well for the world. Thirty Years War, War of Spanish Succession, Seven Years War, Napoleonic Wars, Crimean War, World War 1, World War 2.

                    1. Well maybe this time we can learn from history so that we don’t have to repeat it.

                    2. It isn’t us but the Europeans who need to learn.

                    3. In fact given the frequency of continental wars in Europe, we are actually overdue one.

                    4. I blame it on Global warming, the lack of a continental wide war in Europe.

        2. Sure, having their own army is all well and good until some jackhole invades one of their countries and they start whining and crying for our help again.

    2. And why did France recall their ambassador? Hmm? Was it because we are on the verge of war with France?

      No, it was because they were upset that we made a better deal with Australia and UK in providing nuclear submarines to them, in order to counter China.

      https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/17/politics/french-ambassador-to-the-us-recalled/index.html

      They are upset that we are providing a better deal to Australia than they were willing to provide.

      It is exactly the type of Trumpian thing that Trump might have done – piss off the cheese-eating surrender monkeys and help American businesses with providing more American military hardware to staunch allies to oppose China. Who again cares what the French think?

      Why again are you upset with what has transpired?

      1. So SleepyJoe is the new Trump?

        1. In this case he acted in a very Trumpian way. Pissing off the Europeans and helping American businesses in order to counter China. Just without the mean tweets.

          It is not hard to picture Trump doing the very same thing.

          1. We’ve undercut France in arms deals plenty of times in the past. They never withdrew their diplomats then, why do you think this time is different? It’s about more than the sub deal, it is also about how ill used the French feel during the Afghanistan withdrawal, and probably partly resentment over Joe Biden taking all the credit for the evacuation, when a quarter of those evacuated were done so by foreign allies, France being one of the biggest contributors. I cringed every time Biden claimed that America alone was the only country that could have pulled off that mission and every time his administration took credit for the work of our allies.

            1. You cannot possibly believe that the people now reaching for their fainting couches over some French ambassador would have ever given a shit about it if Trump was in charge.

              1. It would certainly have been a big deal in the media.
                #IMPEACH!

              2. Playing partisanship I see. This is a big deal no matter who is in office. But you rather play tribalist politics than see how dangerous to our oldest alliance the past couple of months have been. You are as guilty of playing partisanship with your deflections as those who supported Trump.

                1. Well he did at the outset call Bidens actions trumpian despite it never happening under trump.

                  But he totes isn’t a leftist guys.

                  1. Biden is now more Trump than Trump ever was apparently.

                    1. Yes he is. I didn’t support Trump, but found much of the criticism of him hyperbolic. But now Joe is doing and causing much of the shit people accused Trump of doing, that he never actually did, and people like ChemJeff deflect while they screamed their heads off that Trump was going to cause all these problems, and didn’t, but now that Biden actually has, crickets or but Trump. It just demonstrates that ChemJeff is as much of a tribalist as he accuses others of.
                      Something I learned at a young age is that often those most adamantly criticizing others for bad behavior are the most guilty of said behavior.

                    2. and people like ChemJeff deflect while they screamed their heads off that Trump was going to cause all these problems, and didn’t, but now that Biden actually has, crickets or but Trump.

                      Show me where I said I SUPPORTED what Biden did. I don’t.

                      I am simply calling out opportunists like buckleup and Jesse for pretending to care what France thinks of the US. They don’t give a shit, they only are using this event to bash Biden. If Trump had done the exact same thing they would be beating their chests with AMERICA FIRST bravado and trashing France. Remember “Freedom Fries”? Remember how much they cared about France when Trump pulled out of the PARIS Accords or pulled out of the Iran deal? They are a bunch of hypocrites. And you are falling for their crocodile tears.

                    3. Jeff still doesn’t understand the issue. Lol.

                      Jeff… you often called out Trump “made the us look bad globally” and now when Biden has a NATO ambassador withdrawn it is a combination of no big deal and called it trumpian (never happened under him). You didn’t actually criticize Biden shitstain, you deflected to Trump. That is a defensive mechanism to deflecg blame from the failures of the DNC. It is what you’ve been doing for 9 months now.

                      Understand now?

                    4. By the way, nice what if strawman scenario you are using to defend your hypocrisy Jeff. Lol. You’ve actually acted on hypocrisy. You have to invent situations to accuse me of it.

                    5. Jesse, show me where I said I supported what Biden did with respect to submarine sales to Australia. Go ahead I’ll wait.

                      Because I didn’t. I never did.

                      If Trump had done the same thing I would have criticized it just the same.

                      But if Trump had done the same thing you would have done backflips trying to defend it.

                      That is the difference.

                      Now fuck off.

                    6. Jeff, are you or are you not deflecting to trump on this thread. Answer the question yes or no.

                      God damn youre fuckong dense.

                  2. Trump didn’t do the exact same thing, despite you predicting he would multiple times. And you did. But this didn’t happen on his watch. It happened on Biden’s and your response was eh, big deal. And then you launched into an attack on Trump supporters. It is self evident. And you may never have said you supported Trump but you did multiple times say you preferred Biden to Trump and that you find more in common with the left than the right. You accuse others of hypocrisy, without any evidence other than an assumption of events that never happened (despite you predicting that they would) while at the same time, you shrug off when these events actually happened under Biden. You may declare you don’t support Biden, but it is self evidently clear you excuse him far more than you excused Trump. And what is even worse is you excuse actual behavior and consequences of Biden while you screamed about hypothetic actions and consequences of Trump. Your biggest criticism is the assumption that this would have occurred if Trump was President still. It is a disprovable hypothesis because it is totally based upon subjective assumptions.
                    You didn’t feel the need to criticize Biden, instead you felt the need to criticize Trump and his supporters. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see where your sympathies lay.

                    1. He has called himself both a globalist libertarian and a libertarian socialist. Both which simply mean leftist.

                    2. No you’re right Trump didn’t do the EXACT same thing. But let’s see – make a deal with Australia that undercut a European power on a military deal that helped Australia better counter China… yeah it’s hard for me to see a Trumpian objection to that. So do you, if you’re being honest. Name me any Trumpian Republican who gives two shits what Europe (outside of pro-Brexit Britain) thinks of the US… EXCEPT if it is as a cudgel to be used against Biden. That is all this is.

                    3. No it isn’t all this is. And as for undercutting military deals both the US and France have done that since 1945. You can see Trump doing that, okay, since you can see alternative timelines others of us can’t, what would have happened if I had asked out Summer during our trip to state for Knowledge Bowl, because I have always wondered.

                    4. And Jeff deflects to trump again on a what if strawman scenario to defend biden. Lol.

                    5. No, I was hoping he really could see alternative timelines and could answer my question about Summer.

                  3. Poor ChemJeff he still believes this is solely about the sub deal, JFRee just posted a link to a French newspaper say it goes far beyond the sub deal and has a lot to do with Afghanistan. But poor Jeffy still trying to act as it it isn’t. He is still going on about how he is principled in that he would criticize Trump while Jesse wouldn’t have (duh) while still not criticizing Biden.

                    1. idk that’s what he’s really saying at all.

                  4. Hilariously, he demands to know where he said he supported Biden, even though neither of you claimed he supported him, just that he’s making excuses and deflecting.

              3. Now do the reverse for if it had happened shitstain.

            2. I think $40 billion dollar deal had something to do with it. Also France was just going to sell them conventional subs. They want nuclear powered. Our shipyards and technology are obviously more advanced.

              They are up against China which has a huge navy and sub fleet. I would go with nuclear and US/UK if I were them. Those French subs are going to be obsolete by the time they get them.

              So maybe there is a broader context but just on that level it makes sense.

          2. Anyone else need proof jeff sees politics as a religion? Simply replacing the devil with whatever conservative is most prominent?

      2. France is our oldest allies. It is not simply the submarine deal, that was the straw that broke the camel’s back. France is also pissed at the way Biden treated our NATO allies during the Afghanistan withdrawal.
        France didn’t even withdraw their diplomats during the Quasi War, while their warships and privateers were literally attacking our merchant ships and we were on the verge of an actual full blown shooting war with them. I care a lot that our closest allies feel so ill used that they withdrew their diplomats. France didn’t withdraw it’s diplomats during the Civil War despite having far more commercial interest in the South than the North and the North capturing French and British blockade runners and exerting much diplomatic pressure for France to cut all ties with the South. You blow this off, but any student of history understands this was an unprecedented step on their behalf, and the submarine deal is really just a cover. That this step was taken because of more than that.

        1. No they are upset because we stole their business.

          And I do not believe one word from the Trump bootlickers around here who claim they are “upset” about what France did. They aren’t. They don’t give a shit. It is just a useful cudgel for them. If Trump had done the same thing – and it’s not hard to picture that he would – the very same people crying crocodile tears over France now would be slamming them as surrender monkeys instead and praising Trump for AMERICA FIRST-INESS.

          1. We have undercut them often in arms deals in the past we have been on the verge of a shooting war with them before and they never withdrew their diplomats. Why now? It isn’t logical to claim it was only about the sub deal (especially as they didn’t withdraw their British diplomats and England was just as involved in undercutting this deal as the US). Keep running cover for Biden’s fuck ups by deflecting to Trump and his supporters. Because we know it is all you have.

          2. Lie for us some more you lying liar. You bitch constantly about people putting words in your mouth and then engage in the exact same behavior at the slightest provocation. The difference being that the people who predict what you will say are usually correct.

            Go fuck yourself, you disingenuous cunt.

          3. Man. Youre really breaking apart with the failures of Biden.

            1. From your point of view, why is it a failure?

              1. Lol. Really? This is the sophist tact youre going to go with?

                1. He pissed off the French while arming Australia to counter China. Why are you upset again?

                  1. He has pissed the French off since 15 April and even their press is saying that is part (a large part) of this move.

              2. English Parliament voted to censure a sitting President for the first time in 245 years. The French withdraws their ambassador for the first time in 243 years. Your right no evidence of a failure.

          4. You’re STILL bitching about trump lmao. Pathetic doesn’t even begin to describe you

          5. Imagine being such a collectivist that you label soldiermedic a “Trump bootlicker”.

        2. France over the centuries has been more an enemy of our enemies when convenient rather than a friend. Ever since we kissed and made up Great Britain has been our staunchest ally, along with the rest of the Anglosphere.

      3. Good defense of the democrats jeff. And by good I mean hilarious. How often did you attack trump for how the world viewed him? Yet he never had a nato country do this.

        1. No no, please tell us why you are upset with what Biden did. Because he pissed off France? Because you and Team Red has such a long track record intimately caring about what France and Europe thinks of the US? Right?

          1. Stop deflecting Jeff. Explain how this is trumpian when it never happened under him. Why are you deflecting from Bidens failures Jeff?

            Next up are you going to call the droning of 11 afghan citizens including children trumpian?

            You claim to not be a leftist jeff, but you sure are rushing to defend and deflecting every criticism of Biden. Lol.

          2. If you aren’t upset that Biden has breached an alliance that dates back to 1777 and is largely responsible, although not majorly responsible, for our independence, than something is wrong with you. It is extremely telling of where your sympathies lay that you felt the need to shrug off this unprecedented actions of our oldest allies and instead shift your attack towards Trump and his supporters. You can try and play the victim all you want, but to any open minded observer, your actions scream partisanship, the same partisanship you accuse others of without any real evidence because it is purely based upon speculation.

            1. I in actuality don’t care they withdrew their ambassador as it is largely a form of virtual signaling with no true consequence. Macron will still get on the phone with the WH and State. Ambassadors are largely symbolic relics of the past as useful as the British monarchy. More for political actions than effective actions.

              But I will continue to point to the lefts caterwauling about trumps disruptions of normal relations and their hypocrisy regarding it (see Jeff). The bitch is such a hypocrite it is hilarious to watch.

              1. I disagree, I think it is a huge fucking deal. Just because of our long history with France and the totally unprecedented actions taken today. In 243 years this hasn’t happened. It just strained our relationship with our long standing European allies is.

                1. What was the last actual ambassador driven action that was significant? Hanging up gay pride flags globally except in the Middle East. Ambassadors were important prior to mass transit continental communication. I would even argue D.C. is a historic relic and all their interactions should be virtual. Imagine having a senator or rep actually live in the area they live. Would do so much to transform government.

                  1. It isn’t the effectiveness it is the symbolism. In the diplomatic world you only do this with countries you want to send a fuck you to.

                    1. Which can be done on television in a public address much more cheaply.

                    2. But that isn’t how diplomacy is played.

                    3. I dont care about legacy statemanship. It is a show. That’s all. Would rather they just get down to policy discussions instead of grand shows. This is why politicians are ounces of shit. They think they are royalty instead of workers of the people.

                2. So you have your answer. Jesse et al. only care about “withdrawing ambassadors” because it makes Biden look bad. Other than that they don’t give a shit.

                  1. Jeff proves he is incapable of reading. Lol. I dont care wither way jeff. I am pretty blunt im pointing out yours and the lefts hypocrisy.

                    Can you please learn to read instead of rushing to strawman arguments?

                    This is why everyone thinks you’re a dishonest shit weasel.

                    1. Bullshit. You are the hypocrite here. If Trump had done the same thing you would be defending it in spades.

                      You are a dishonest asshole.

                    2. Aren’t you the one who thinks that China is an existential threat to the West? Why yes I think you are.

                      Aren’t you the one who doesn’t give a shit about what everyone else thinks of us? Why yes I think you are.

                    3. The ONLY reason you complain is because Biden did it. That is the ONLY reason.

                    4. ChemJeff makes assertions here based on evidence not in existence and expects everyone to accept his predictions based upon mere assumptions. And tries to defend his own self evident hypocrisy by calling others hypocrites. It is possible ChemJeff is right, we can’t know because it never happened, but it still doesn’t excuse his own hypocrisy and partisanship.

                    5. 3 more shit weasel posts jeff? Again. Youre the one who claimed international norms were violated under trump. Youre the one deflecting from biden om this instance despite it happening under biden and not trump. Youre the one claiming it is no big deal.

                      Read my first post to soldiermedic where I directly call out yours and the lefts hypocrisy on the deal you retarded ignorant sophist fuck.

                      This is why you are a shit weasel. Just a dishonest shit.

                      And you know you got caught as you posted 3 times to try to save your fat ass face.

            2. Even during the Eisenhower administration, when relations between Eisenhower and De Gaul reached such a low point that De Gaul withdrew France from NATO and ordered all US troops out of France, to which Eisenhower reportedly asked “does that include the ones buried there?” Did France withdraw their diplomats.
              To put it into Biden’s own words “this is a big fucking deal”.
              First the English Parliament voted to censure Biden, the first time English Parliament has ever done that. Now the French withdraw their diplomats, the first time since our alliance was formed in 1778.
              Pershing is said to have visited Paris and announced “Lafayette we are here” upon his arrival in France in 1918. That alliance has now reached the lowest point diplomatically that it can. Withdrawing diplomats is not done just because of an arms deal, especially with a country you have been allied for 243 years, and which has hundreds of thousands of it’s citizens buried in your country who died to liberate your country.

              1. Troop withdrawal is a much bigger action than an ambassador withdrawal. Two completely different things.

                1. No, in the world of diplomacy, withdrawing ambassadors is generally only done if the ambassador is involved in a scandal or if you are ready to declare war. I doubt it is either of these but it is a huge fucking deal.

                  1. Disagree. How many times have the Russians expelled our ambassadors and vice versa says a war? It is simply a political statement. It has no actual effect.

                    1. You would have a point of Russia has been an ally since 1778 and our oldest ally.

                    2. No I don’t. Ambasadors get expelled or removed as a statement of show often. It is all theater. Theater is boring and useless.

              2. As an example. Does our relationship with North Korea change of they have an ambassador in country?

                Now I will say the exchange of embassies in Israel and various ME countries was big, but the use if ambassadors and embassies is more symbolic than effective. The true effectiveness is opening trade relations that so not go through ambassadors but through various high cabinet officials.

                1. The symbolism is the biggest fuck you a country can give to an ally.

                  1. Which can easily be done on television with a public fuck you more cheaply.

                    I’ll hearken back to my initial point. It is a virtue signal symbolically. Nothing more nothing less.

                    There are more effective means to give a fuck you though. War games on the China Sea as an example.

                    1. Not between close allies with a long standing alliance. This simply isn’t done with allies.

                    2. In all honesty I don’t care if that’s how it was always done. I dont condone it as it is meaningless. O get the significance, I just think it is useless theater.

                    3. Most diplomacy is.

              3. That was Dean Rusk (LBJ administration) not Eisenhower.

                And seriously read the France24 link I posted way above. One of the links in that one goes to an article Macron wrote last year about the EU Army and strategic autonomy from the US. This is not new. Macron is a continuation of de Gaulle and Mitterrand and Chirac.

                Biden is certainly not repairing any damage but this is about France – not the US.

                1. The French had no support for that move before Afghanistan, and Macron knew it.

                  1. Additionally, before Afghanistan the US had enough clout to place enough diplomatic pressure on the EU to stop Macron if he did press forward with this.

                    1. FFS. Isn’t it past time for NATO to be so US dominant?

                    2. Oh I don’t disagree that our NATO allies should contribute more, only a handful actually contribute what they should.

                    3. However, I don’t trust that an EU army is in the best interest of the US. I can easily see it becoming a potential adversary.

                    4. Can’t have it both ways. Either they pay more and assume more responsibility which means independence – or we pay them to be a poodle.

                  2. They still don’t have it. No one really cares about Afghanistan. But it is another notch in the story he wants to tell about the ‘Macron Doctrine’ and the strength of Europe. As is the pique that AU and NZ are no longer in the front-lines to defend French Polynesia and New Caledonia. Which would never have happened had we continued to spend yet more decades dicking around in the Middle East and such and avoiding paying attention to Asia.

                    1. The British and Germans seem to care. The Germans have outright officially questioned if they can depend upon the US under Biden and so have the English. The English went a step further and censured Biden. You are smoking dope if you think the Europeans aren’t pissed as hell at Biden over Afghanistan. Or just blinded by partisanship.

                    2. The Chinese care too. They cited the US’s complete bungling of leaving Afghanistan as an opportunity to threaten Taiwan.

                    3. Chinese have been buzzing Taiwan daily for a few years now. We have been either ignoring it – or pretending that China is Soviet Union 2. We really suck at even paying attention to foreign stuff. Much less thinking and trying to understand long-term realities.

                      Very much like France, China is viewing the Afghanistan stuff from their own perspective – NOT from the perspective of the domestic US. The withdrawal from Afghanistan is what is important to them – not the clumsiness of it. They want to fill the vacuum of our sphere of influence in Asia. An area that they know is not a permanent ‘proximate neighborhood’ of the US but is simply an expression of our temporary superpower status. They would prefer to do that in the Pacific littoral – not the inland Hindu Kush. But they’ll take this as the first step.

      4. chemjeff radical individualist
        September.17.2021 at 7:16 pm

        1. Deflect
        2. Redirect

    3. Seems awfully pissy to do this just over a ‘torpedoed’ arms deal. I wonder what else is behind it?

      1. I am sure it has nothing to do with all the shit that Biden has pulled since 15 April.

        1. Biden single handedly got all 100k refugees out of Afghanistan by carrying them on his back.

          1. I am sure his constantly taking all the credit while never once thanking our allies for their efforts didn’t help things. Or ignoring them when they asked to extend his self imposed deadline. Or the fact that Europe has been desperately working to get out their remaining citizens and feel the US is being not only remiss but resistant to aid in these efforts.

            1. The US is working to strengthen the alliance between US, UK and Australia. We are already tight with Japan and they are getting stronger. The action is there. France would be useless in Asia. Germany is about as militarily useful as a currywurst.

              Australia was our anchor in the pacific in WW2. They are getting F-35s. They have a long history with the UK and the US. What has France ever done for us?

              Who cares about France and their hissy fit. European army. Good they can help out Poland and Ukraine, oh wait.

              This is an excellent move. You need nuclear powered subs to operate in the South China Sea. You need stealth fighters. You need a navy. Australia has been beefing up of late.

    4. The same France that tears up US sourced grape vines and fines the owners?
      The same France we gave 117,000 US lives to save in the War to End All War?
      The same France that refused overflight to bomb Libya leading to the loss of a crew?
      The same France that doesn’t pay the NATO dues?
      That France?
      Who cares?

  7. “This is a big setback for President Joe Biden’s plan announced back in August to roll out COVID-19 booster shots for most Americans beginning next week.”

    The interesting question to me is how they figure out what is and isn’t misinformation.

    The CDC is making its own recommendation next week. What if they disagree?

    Will Joe Biden let us talk on social media about whether we should or shouldn’t get a booster shot?

    1. No grasshopper, he will not.

    2. Somehow I see conversations on social media every day about topics they are supposedly censoring.

      1. Rape is illegal yet it happens.

      2. Depends on the website. For now.

  8. Bailey: follow the science unless it doesn’t go the direction I think it should.

    1. Hey man, I just responded to your post on the Niki Minaj thread about your family all getting a head cold. Check it out. I’m curious to see my COVID test result and understand.

      1. haha, one of your posts. way towards the bottom.

  9. Well I’m in a quandary here. I’ve got Top Men telling me to do two different things. Thank God I’ve got a libertarian like Ron to tell me I’ve gotta get jabbed every six months forever instead of putting this insane shit behind me. I know you are all about the science Ron and last I stopped by your little rant blog you were screeching about MOAR TESTING. How’s that working out? Then I heard you proved that Ivermectin is, sadly, just no damn good and if you don’t get an emergency use vaccine you might as well just slit your wrists and be done with it. Did you notice Ron that the Biden administration has admitted that antibody treatments are effective and they’re gonna make sure Florida doesn’t get too many because Florida Man Bad? We all know that your job requires that you schill for whatever Top Men your masters have a hardon for. But don’t worry. You couldn’t possibly beclown yourself more than you already have.

    1. Keep getting your medical advice from anecdotes and Joe Rogan. I’m sure everything will turn out just fine.

      1. Um Fuck Joe Biden.

        1. Fuck Team Blue and Team Red.

          1. You’re Team Blue, moron.

            1. Because I voted for Jo Jo?

              Keep telling yourself that, Team Red bootlicker

              1. Because you defend and deflect at every criticism of the left while pushing every leftist narrative on this site.

                1. while pushing every leftist narrative

                  Except I don’t. What I don’t do, is push every right-wing narrative. And because I don’t, you think that is equivalent to pushing a ‘leftist narrative’. You push right-wing crap here all the time while claiming it is libertarian when you are nothing more than a Team Red bootlicker.

                  1. Nope you are a team blue asslicker and you proved it every day here. Fuck off fatty.

                    1. Fuck you. You are a worthless Republican.

                    2. And ChemJeff’s true roots show, the biggest insult he can come up with is labeling someone a Republican.

                    3. It’s not his fault soldier, he’s just a common collectivist.

                  2. Except you do. At least you admit to deflecting from them.

                    1. “Fuck Team Blue and Team Red.”

                      Can you say the same thing?
                      Answer: no

                    2. Yes I can. Can you stop lying about it?

                    3. By the way jeff… i have criticized the following in the 15 years here off the top of my head…

                      Paul Ryan. Mitch McConnell. Mitt Romney. Chris Christy. Giuliani. Bush. Rumsfeld. Amash. Etc. And even trump! See the bump stock ban or evictions. I have constantly called out their spending. But sadly democrats are far worse.

                      You have virtually never called put the left and rush to defend them at every turn. Lol.

                  3. Still one of my favorite libertarian, quotes needed, planks of leftist Jeff….

                    chemjeff radical individualist
                    February.9.2021 at 8:56 am
                    Flag Comment Mute User
                    What is there to talk about?

                    From a libertarian perspective, Ashli Babbett was trespassing, and the officers were totally justified to shoot trespassers. Again from a libertarian perspective, the officers would have been justified in shooting every single trespasser. That would not have been wise or prudent, of course.

                    They were all trespassers trying to be where they weren’t supposed to be.

                  4. Except you do. Or almost exclusively do, so much so that no one remembers anytime you have actually criticized the left.

                    1. He does when he claims neutrality. He won’t actually criticize the person or policy though.

                    2. Hey Jesse you and I were just disagreeing according to Jeffy, Mike, Sarcasmic et al shouldn’t you be labeling me a lefty by now? I mean they maintain you and NardZ and Sevo label anyone who disagrees with them a lefty.

                  5. You know everyone can read your posts right?

        2. Fuck jeffy. And fuck Joe Biden and Chinese communist virus he rode in on.

          1. And I thought you didn’t have anything personal against me. Guess I was wrong.

            1. Youre a shit weasel. What don’t you get?

      2. Yes, only use government supplied “intelligence “.
        Signed: 7 kids in Afghanistan.

      3. How about medical advice from the inventor of the mRNA vaccine?

        1. You mean the guy who has an axe to grind because he doesn’t think he got the proper credit for his role in the discovery? That guy?

          1. I see you’ve been reading the New York Times again.

              1. The Atlantic? Lmao the fact you even read that proves your a slave to the dems. Or a paid troll.

          2. Weren’t you saying scientists such as Fauci were apolitical just last week? Lol.

            1. I didn’t say anything about Fauci.

              1. You’ve never said anything about Fauci?

      4. The fear you obese leftists have of covid is why even Bill Maher is calling you stupid.

      5. LOL, chemfat is absolutely SEETHING that Rogan didn’t die of COVID like he was supposed to.

        Rogan’s not a blubbery waste of life like you are, fat boy, so his chances of recovering from an illness were always quite good.

      6. Joe Rogan… You mean that guy whose combo of treatments treatment cured him in under 5 days and should be a model for all patients moving forward?

        1. How dare he prove that anything besides fealty to the government and Science! could get him back on his feet.

  10. I’ve seen the following quote on a number of sites. It must be a typo.
    “Pfizer coronavirus vaccine can prevent both infections and severe illness in adults older than 60 for at least 12 days.”

    1. Yeah, but no guarantees.

    2. RESULTS
      At least 12 days after the booster dose, the rate of confirmed infection was lower in the booster group than in the nonbooster group by a factor of 11.3 (95% confidence interval [CI], 10.4 to 12.3); the rate of severe illness was lower by a factor of 19.5 (95% CI, 12.9 to 29.5). In a secondary analysis, the rate of confirmed infection at least 12 days after vaccination was lower than the rate after 4 to 6 days by a factor of 5.4 (95% CI, 4.8 to 6.1).

      CONCLUSIONS
      In this study involving participants who were 60 years of age or older and had received two doses of the BNT162b2 vaccine at least 5 months earlier, we found that the rates of confirmed Covid-19 and severe illness were substantially lower among those who received a booster (third) dose of the BNT162b2 vaccine.

      Make of that what you will.

      1. My take is, it’s not a typo you’re reading, you’re finding that journalists do what journalists do, they google something, cut and paste it, then without really understanding what it is they’re cutting and pasting, reformat it to make it palatable for their readers.

        1. That must be it. That line makes it sound so pointless that I figured it was a mistake, because if doesn’t follow the script.

        2. So what are you complaining about?

          Based on what you pasted, the journalists reported accurately what the study actually found. That a booster shot prevents severe illness in those over 60 for at least 12 days.

          What should they have done instead?

          Why don’t you just admit that you are going to object to anything that any journalist says and instead listen to whatever some youtube guy says?

          1. Quite the ignorant strawman you resorted to jeff.

          2. I’m not complaining about anything, except pointing out that journalists copy and paste what they don’t understand.

            My guess is the journalists are trying to say that Boosters are effective, without looking at what looks like extremely limited conditions.

            Boosters may be effective, they may not be. But given the quote it will probably just confuse their readers… which this thread appears to be proof of that.

            Why don’t you just admit that you are going to object to anything that any journalist says and instead listen to whatever some youtube guy says?

            This is a fun Jedi mind trick that doesn’t work with me. “Scientists say” is the new mantra in the media. It’s a religion. It’s nothing more than scientism and you’re entirely guilty of it.

            It’s nothing but a thin appeal to authority.

            Ok, here’s a scientist that says otherwise.

            Here’s 10,000 scientists that say otherwise.

            “quit listening to Joe Rogan!”

            1. My guess is the journalists are trying to say that Boosters are effective, without looking at what looks like extremely limited conditions.

              THEY REPORTED EXACTLY WHAT THE STUDY SAID. Do they get credit for that, or not? I thought journalists were just pushing Democratic Party agendas. I thought they were shills for the Deep State. Do they get credit for reporting the science accurately, or not?

              It’s nothing but a thin appeal to authority.

              Sure, if you think a doctor’s diagnosis of your health or a plumber’s diagnosis of your plumbing is just a “thin appeal to authority”.

              For better or for worse, we have a division of labor, where certain people specialize in certain fields. I am not an expert in plumbing, and I am presuming that you are not an expert in chemistry. If I want to know about what’s wrong with my plumbing in my house, I will call a plumber and rely upon his ‘appeal to authority’. If you want to know what’s wrong with a chemical reaction in your lab, are you going to listen to what Joe Rogan says? Are you going to listen to what your Uncle Fester says? Or are you going to listen to what a chemist like me says?

              1. Jeffy I don’t always deflect from criticism of the left and anyone who says otherwise is lying about me. Then he goes on and the very next comment spends volumes deflecting for the left.

          3. 12 days?

            You’re not even considered fully vaccinated after the 2nd dose for 15 days lmao.

            So the first two doses require at least 15 days to mount an effective response (as we know, those under 15 days from the 2nd shot are considered “unvaccinated” so they can hide breakthrough cases) … But the 3rd shot takes less than 12 days to both mount an immune response and be fully actualized?

            If you believe that there’s a lot of swamp land in Florida a retard like you could buy.

    1. “The agricultural practice of medicating poultry and livestock indiscriminately with anti-biotics leads to super-resistant superbugs. Same basic logic: overuse of vaccines will drive the development of viruses which evade vaccination. […] We know that natural infection provides broader and lasting and up to 20 fold more effective immune response at preventing reinfection than the vaccine does”.

      1. We know that natural infection provides broader and lasting and up to 20 fold more effective immune response at preventing reinfection than the vaccine does

        That is a LIE.

        https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/9/21-1042_article

        Not all persons recovering from severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection develop SARS-CoV-2–specific antibodies. We show that nonseroconversion is associated with younger age and higher reverse transcription PCR cycle threshold values and identify SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in the nasopharynx as a major correlate of the systemic antibody response.

        1. Lol.

          https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

          But keep citing the organization that has lied multiple times due to “evolving science” the last 18 months. I mean they changed guidance sue to pressure from teachers unions for fucks sake.

          Youre such a fucking statist.

            1. From your own link:

              In addition, individuals who were previously infected who received one dose of the Pfizer vaccine were even more protected from breakthrough infection than the naturally infected group.

              1. Quantify that protection for me please. The numbers are all there.

            2. You are proving my point for me.
              Vaccination helps to prevent severe disease and death.

              It is NOT a silver bullet. Nobody in any position of authority ever claimed that it was.

              But you all are spreading unjustified fear of the vaccine, based on the testimony of a disgruntled scientist, and anecdotal nonsense

              1. They’ve done everything short of claiming it was a silver bullet and have almost even called it that.

                1. Actually as late as July 23rd Biden was claiming that no one would get the virus if they got vaccinated. That seems like he was calling the vaccine a silver bullet, and BTW both England and Israel were having breakthrough cases, and even the US by then.

        2. No it’s not:

          The natural immune protection that develops after a SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably more of a shield against the Delta variant of the pandemic coronavirus than two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a large Israeli study that some scientists wish came with a “Don’t try this at home” label. The newly released data show people who once had a SARS-CoV-2 infection were much less likely than never-infected, vaccinated people to get Delta, develop symptoms from it, or become hospitalized with serious COVID-19.

          1. From your own link:

            The study demonstrates the power of the human immune system, but infectious disease experts emphasized that this vaccine and others for COVID-19 nonetheless remain highly protective against severe disease and death. And they caution that intentional infection among unvaccinated people would be extremely risky. “What we don’t want people to say is: ‘All right, I should go out and get infected, I should have an infection party,’” says Michel Nussenzweig, an immunologist at Rockefeller University who researches the immune response to SARS-CoV-2 and was not involved in the study. “Because somebody could die.”

            1. Which is a stupid statement for a scientist to make, because even the vaccine carries the risk of death, and several thousand have died from the vaccine. The risk is less but still remains.

        3. But they recovered right? Do you even know what your quote means lmao?

          It says that not all recovered patients develop covid specific antibodies, especially younger ones. And yet they recovered somehow. But they only know this from testing their noses usimg incredibly high CT value PCR tests that we know are inaccurate and have already lost their EUA for giving too many false positives.

          That must mean there’s other mechanisms besides the one specific igg antibody that the PCR tests for that clear infection!

          Too bad the cdc isn’t looking into them.

        4. Sure, 100+ years of virology and disease study and all of a sudden vaccines give you better immunity than natural immunity.

      2. We know that natural infection provides broader and lasting and up to 20 fold more effective immune response at preventing reinfection than the vaccine does

        That is a LIE.

        https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

        Even in this study, which is not friendly towards the vaccine:

        This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity.

        They ALSO conclude:

        Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.

      3. Furthermore.

        It is completely unethical to ask that people get sick from a potentially lethal disease INSTEAD of taking a vaccine against that disease.

        And this guy, Robert Malone, is not without his own problems.

        https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/

        What Malone has said:

        Malone says he deserves credit for more than just sparking hope. He dropped out of graduate school in 1988, just short of his Ph.D., and went to work at a pharmaceutical company called Vical. Now he claims that both the Salk Institute and Vical profited from his work and essentially prevented him from further pursuing his research. (A Salk Institute spokesperson said that nothing in the institute’s records substantiates Malone’s allegations. The biotech company into which Vical was merged, Brickell, did not respond to requests for comment.) To say that Malone remains bitter over this perceived mistreatment doesn’t do justice to his sense of aggrievement. He calls what happened to him “intellectual rape.”

        One target of Malone’s ire, the biochemist Katalin Karikó, has been featured in multiple news stories as an mRNA-vaccine pioneer. CNN called her work “the basis of the Covid-19 vaccine” while a New York Times headline said she had “helped shield the world from the coronavirus.” None of those stories mentioned Malone. “I’ve been written out of the history,” he has said. “It’s all about Kati.” Karikó shared with me an email that Malone sent her in June, accusing her of feeding reporters bogus information and inflating her own accomplishments. “This is not going to end well,” Malone’s message says.

        1. Oh my god I don’t believe a word of that Atlantic article, and we have irrefutable proof that the media will run hit jobs on anyone who opposes the narrative.

          Get off your fucking knees.

          1. Oh my god I don’t believe a word of that Atlantic article

            Because you don’t want to.

            Because you would rather believe the vaccine is poison rather than believe that some scientist has an axe to grind.

            1. Because it’s chock full of bullshit and you and the media have been shown to be complete liars.

      4. Robert Malone is ONE GUY who had a substantial role to play in the eventual development of the mRNA vaccine. He is not THE INVENTOR of mRNA vaccines. He is ONE OF MANY inventors. Even Isaac Newton said that he stood on the shoulders of giants when discovering the laws of motion. Who the hell does he think he is to claim that he is THE INVENTOR? He is an embittered man who has an axe to grind. He presents himself as a vaccine skeptic because that is his current meal ticket. This is the type of con that Team Red perpetually falls for. Here is a guy who has a message that is soothing to the right-wing psyche because it is anti-government but it is fundamentally based on a lie. It was the same with the Tea Party. It was fundamentally the same with Trump – he was never a conservative, he was only interested in his own self-promotion. It just continues over and over again.

        1. Somehow fatty jeff turns this into his own personal rant over the people that regular kick his ass here every day.

          1. Him and sarcasmic could form a reason power victim hood power couple.

        2. I agree with that. He is a virologist who has done some work on mRNA in the past among other things. At the time of the outbreak he was working with a lab called Alchem and looking at the possibility of Pepsid as a treatment for Covid.

  11. I posted this on the Welch article, I will post it here too.

    I think I figured out the problem the FDA is having in their communications:

    From an internet search, first entry, The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.:

    vaccine
    văk-sēn′, văk′sēn″
    noun
    A preparation of a weakened or killed pathogen, such as a bacterium or virus, or of a portion of the pathogen’s structure that upon administration to an individual stimulates antibody production or cellular immunity against the pathogen but is incapable of causing severe infection.

    From the CDC:

    Vaccine: A preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but some can be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

    The definition of vaccine has been changed, but the public perception is of the old definition.

    The rest of it is public health theater. The mRNA vaccine trials were conducted at peak lockdown. 87-95% efficacy with little to no contact with the infected? LOL!

    6 months under more realistic conditions clearly show that the vaccine is about as effective as a cloth mask at preventing infections. My vaccinated wife’s symptoms started 5 days after being exposed, identical to my unvaccinated experience. Her symptoms abated 7 days faster than mine.

    The shots have a significant effect, but they in way satisfy the definition of vaccination that the public has come to expect after 100 years and the dozens of diseases from smallpox to chicken pox that have been nearly eradicated through vaccination. Many people are blaming the unvaccinated because it is easier than admitting that the people they have empowered to protect us all from COVID have deceived them.

    1. Shorter Chucky: Anecdotes are a suitable substitute for statistics.

      1. Statistically you fat fucks should lose weight yet you refuse to.

        1. Fat chance he loses weight.

        2. I identify as a skinny person.

      2. Longer jeffy: I don’t know how the fuck logic works. I am ignoring all of the recent studies that have confirmed the vaccines do not prevent infection and in denial that Chuck’s anecdote is being given as confirmation of the mountain of empirical data, not in lieu of it.

        Oh, and go fellate yourself, Fallacious jeffy.

        1. COVID is thinning out the fatties from the population leaving some with heavy hearts. You’d think the obese would have the skinny on this by now. Maybe they do but it hasn’t gotten through their thick heads.

        1. His diet and exercise plan went belly up.

      3. What a fucking joke. You only ever react to the single item in a lengthy post that you imagine is a ‘gothca!’.

        The CDC is engaging in Newspeak, and you do your best to deflect and distract, like a good little Marxist.

        1. He’s not a Marxist! He’s a libertarian capitalist!!!1!1!1!

    2. Yes, the CDC quietly updated their definition because they’re attempting to confer a lie on a mass scale.

      Stuff we used to know we now pretend we don’t. Stuff we don’t know anything about, we pretend we’re cock-sure about.

      1. They want something like religious belief. It’s like they believe that Jesus walked on water, and they won’t accept people who refuse to accept that gospel truth.

      2. I recently saw an anti-vaping ad tied to this campaign.

        https://www.thetruth.com/depressionstick

        Far as I can tell, because a study said that some people report not feeling depressed after they quit, they’re claiming that vaping makes people depressed.

        They don’t care whether the shit they say is accurate. They want people to just believe it. They can feed a multitude with five loaves and two fishes. They can turn water into wine. It isn’t about whether the things they claim are true. It’s just important that people believe these things.

    3. “6 months under more realistic conditions clearly show that the vaccine is about as effective as a cloth mask at preventing infections.”

      To be clear, the important aspect of the vaccines is their ability to keep Covid-19 patients out of the hospital.

      The vaccines will be effective in preventing infections insofar as they move us toward herd immunity, but the real way to prevent infections is herd immunity–be it from vaccines or post infection immunity.

      Because the vaccine doesn’t necessarily prevent infection, doesn’t mean the vaccines are ineffective at preventing hospitalizations. And preventing hospitalizations is the important thing.

      1. Apparently not to the government because hospitalizations and deaths are way down but the mandates keep coming.

    4. I personally don’t know why they feel the need to torture the definitions. I would consider them a vaccine by the original definition, “portion of the pathogen’s structure”. It isn’t a perfect description, because it causes your cells to make the structure, but whatever.

  12. Boy, someone in the thread is mighty pissed off that the FDA is recommending against a booster shot every 45 days for the rest of your life.

    1. I wouldn’t stop someone from doing this to themselves. Somehow I don’t think the anger is about what they want for themselves.

  13. Am reading a book about women giving birth in all sorts of strange places like elevators and airplanes. Births in floating hospitals are found in the sea section.

  14. Basically Senile Joe lied about having booster shots by the end of September. fat jeffsarc will come here to lie and support team blue, but even in his shallow brain he knows Biden is worthless despite voting for him.

    Today’s interesting release of FDA, France, and drones would have been talked about for weeks back in the day. The current bootlicking media will memory hole this of course. Our federal government is failing and that rapidly.

  15. ChemJeff complains almost everyone falsely accuses him of toeing the leftist line, and then toes the leftist line in everyone of his posts today. I don’t need to say more. I leave the evidence to the jury to deliberate on.

  16. The Moderna vaccine is even better than Pfizer’s, and they just submitted incredibly weak evidence to the FDA to try to justify booster shots for all.

    Poor third world countries need those doses. They can have my booster.

    1. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/15/covid-booster-shots-moderna-releases-data-on-breakthrough-cases-backing-need-for-third-doses.html

      “There were 88 identified breakthrough cases out of 11,431 people vaccinated between December and March, the company said in a release, compared with 162 breakthrough cases out of 14,746 trial participants vaccinated in July through October of last year.”

      Wow, 0.8% vs 1.1%. Well, maybe it keeps you out of the hospital better if it’s more recent?

      “Three Covid-19 related hospitalizations occurred in the group that got the shots early on, resulting in two deaths, according to the data. There were no hospitalizations or deaths in the group that recently received the vaccine, although the finding on severe cases was not statistically significant.”

      1. Has Moderna turned in all the information yet for their booster? My understanding was that they hadn’t yet met the requirement for data turnover, and that is why any debate on their booster has been delayed.

        1. That was the first round of data. 0.01% of people who had the Moderna vaccine were later hospitalized for COVID. Not exactly a strong case for boosters.

      2. Israel just has preliminary observational data so too soon to make conclusions about the boosters at this point.

    2. We are buying half a billion doses to donate. I am all for that.

      I am waiting to see about a booster but those doses are already sitting in a freezer somewhere at CVS. I would hate to see them go to waste.

  17. FDA Advisory Panel Votes Against Biden

    I assume this is Governor DeSantis’ fault.

    1. No, it’s Trump fault, the same way they are blaming Trump for Biden droning an innocent man and his family.

      1. Trump still playing nth dimensional chess 8 months after leaving office.

  18. Biden said Afghanistan wouldn’t be Saigon, no it turned out worse.
    Inflation from the 1970s.
    And now, another flash from the past from the Biden administration, 10,000 Haitian refugees kept in a detainment camp under a bridge. Hmmm where have I seen that image before? Some reason they phrase “say hello to my little friend” is going through my brain… Weird huh?

    1. Yeah I am pro immigration and all that. Biden is doing a terrible job at the border.

  19. You think I trust this government?!? Fuck that! We’ve seen the data coming from Israel and waning immunity. I’m going out now and getting the 3rd shot. Why bother with Fauci and the lying liars from the FDA?

    1. so I unmuted AmSoc, and this is actually one of his better attempts at parody. Maybe he is learning something, but I won’t risk the chance that he isn’t, so I will mute him again after replying
      Good Job AmSoc, I give you a C+. At least it’s a passing grade.

      1. And just to be clear, I was grading on a curve compared to his usual level of drivel. And I was being generous, because he did show real effort and it was almost funny. Almost had a clear point. Almost made sense. Which is far better than what he normally posts. So I thought I’d cut the little guy a break.

      2. That faggot’s been pathetically trying to imitate OBL’s schtick for at least a couple of years. He consistently fails at it like he fails to pay his mortgage because he’s nowhere near clever or self-aware enough to pull it off.

        Thank god OBL arrived on the scene around the time Agile Cyborg stopped posting.

  20. What does the FDA know?
    In a free society no one has to take the vaccine while others can mainline it every 20 minutes like it was coke .

  21. ‘That’s great, but why not use booster shots to protect people against mild cases of the illness and prevent the spread of the virus to other people?’ Perhaps because they won’t prevent the spread of the virus, ‘science’ correspondent?

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  23. Related from The Washingto Examiner:

    “The deluge of severe COVID-19 cases among unvaccinated people requiring treatment in hospitals is estimated to have cost the U.S. healthcare system about $5.7 billion since the start of the summer.

    Unvaccinated people accounted for 98% of COVID-related hospitalizations from June through August, costing billions of dollars, according to “conservative estimates of costs” from the Kaiser Family Foundation. KFF came up with the estimate using federal data that shows the average Medicare fee-for-service costs for treating COVID-19 in hospitals at about $24,033.

    The organization cited another analysis of private insurance claims for pneumonia hospitalizations filed before the pandemic began, showing that cost reached nearly $20,300.

    n June, about $600 million was spent caring for those who are unvaccinated despite widespread access. In July, that figure grew by $1.4 billion and by another $3.7 billion in August. More than 25,400 COVID-19 patients on average were treated in hospital ICUs over the past seven days, according to tracking maintained by Johns Hopkins University.

    About 81% of ICU beds are now occupied by coronavirus patients…”

    “Freedom” isn’t free, even the stupid kind.

    1. “Unvaccinated people accounted for 98% of COVID-related hospitalizations from June through August”
      ———–
      Zero percent chance this is actually true. The CDC numbers themselves had fully vaxed as 9% of hospitalizations in May. The few counties that report this information are closer to 20% hospitalizations than 2%.
      ——–

      About 81% of ICU beds are now occupied by coronavirus patients…

      ——–

      Another total lie. We can see the information for ourselves. There’s nowhere in the world that EVER got up to 80% in the ICU for just covid.

      https://protect-public.hhs.gov/pages/hospital-utilization

      Highest Covid ICU populations:

      Georgia 24%
      South Carolina 21%
      Kentucky 20%
      Tennessee 20%

      1. PS Elvis –

        Last week Georgia had 55% of it’s ICU beds filled with Covid cases.

        https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/hospitalization-7-day-trend/georgia

        I don’t know where the 81% number came from an dis likely an error by either the Washington Examiner or Kaiser Health, but they site the HHS data base as well as one run by Johns Hopkins for the report on costs.

    2. You’re a lying fool for one, and freedom is never the imposition of anything on another against their will. Basic shit, sparky.

    3. “About 81% of ICU beds are now occupied by coronavirus patients…”

      No. Somewhere around that number of total ICU beds are occupied. Percent with Covid between around 4-40%.

      It varies considerably by region and local resources.

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    1. Whisper in their ear, “no personal income tax.”

  25. Sometimes I wonder if this is a libertarian site or not. Bemoaning the FDA not authorizing something for which there is literally no evidence?

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  27. Even Government isn’t clear about booster shot.

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