Afghanistan

Americans Cheer Afghan Departure, But Criticize Chaotic Management

Shameful scenes like those in Kabul don’t have to happen if we avoid military interventions.

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In bad news for both hawkish fans of forever war and the Biden administration, Americans favor the withdrawal of U.S. troops from the quagmire in Afghanistan but are deeply unimpressed by how it has been handled. Officials will, no doubt, complain that the public holds them to an impossible standard and allows them no room for correcting errors. But a more accurate read is that people are averse to fiascos and don't appreciate it when politicians and generals conclude decades of ill-advised military intervention with bloody displays of pandemonium.

"With the U.S. military evacuation of Afghanistan completed – bringing America's longest war to an end – 54% of U.S. adults say the decision to withdraw troops from the country was the right one, while 42% say it was wrong," Pew Research reported this week. "The public is also broadly critical of the Biden administration's handling of the situation in Afghanistan: Only about a quarter (26%) say the administration has done an excellent or good job; 29% say the administration has done an only fair job and 42% say it has done a poor job," Pew added.

It should be no surprise that the public supports withdrawal from Afghanistan after two decades of what 69 percent of them say is failure to achieve the goals of intervention. After all, multiple administrations also believed the U.S. blew it through the lives, years, and fortunes spent in Afghanistan.

"A confidential trove of government documents obtained by The Washington Post reveals that senior U.S. officials failed to tell the truth about the war in Afghanistan throughout the 18-year campaign, making rosy pronouncements they knew to be false and hiding unmistakable evidence the war had become unwinnable," that newspaper reported in 2019. "They underscore how three presidents — George W. Bush, Barack Obama and Donald Trump — and their military commanders have been unable to deliver on their promises to prevail in Afghanistan," the report added.

The nature of the failure that officials covered up through multiple presidential administrations is a glimpse into the moment we're living right now.

"U.S. officials tried to create — from scratch — a democratic government in Kabul modeled after their own in Washington," the Post story noted in 2019. "It was a foreign concept to the Afghans, who were accustomed to tribalism, monarchism, communism and Islamic law."

That artificial government created and propped up by American officials dried up and blew away almost overnight. Its army abandoned posts and weapons in the course of a frantic week, and its president fled the country, reportedly with large enough stacks of cash to feather his new nest.

The chaos at the end explains why Americans who are pleased that the U.S. withdrew its forces from Afghanistan are simultaneously upset by how the departure was handled. After all, a few things (including a great many people who deserved better) were left behind amid panic and violence, including a suicide bombing that claimed the lives of 13 Americans and more than 150 Afghans.

"We did not get everybody out that we wanted to get out," Gen. Frank McKenzie, the head of U.S. Central Command, conceded after the last planes left Kabul.

Among those left behind were "between 100 and 200 Americans who remain in Afghanistan who may have some interest in leaving," according to Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Toria Nuland.

Also left to the tender mercies of the Taliban, according to an anonymous State Department official, were a "majority" of the tens of thousands of interpreters and other Afghans who helped the U.S. effort and sought refuge in the United States in fear of the poor treatment they're bound to receive under the new regime.

"The U.S. still doesn't have reliable data on who was evacuated, nor for what type of visas they may qualify, the official said, but initial assessments suggested most visa applicants didn't make it through the crush at the airport," notes The Wall Street Journal.

Remaining in Afghanistan, too, are billions of dollars in weapons supplied by the United States that belonged to the collapsed Afghan Army. They will, no doubt, continue to contribute to the vast human cost of military intervention in that country.

So, there's plenty to regret about America's intervention in Afghanistan, starting from the very beginning, running through the long years of fighting and nation-building, right up to the frenzied, ignominious conclusion. 

President Joe Biden, understandably a little defensive about the images of retreating troops, torn bodies, and desperate civilians, insists there was no way to get out "without chaos ensuing." He may well be right; a situation that politicians and military officers spent 20 years turning into a disaster while pretending it was a success was unlikely to come to a clean and bloodless end. But Biden was a life-long member of the political class, enthusiastically sought the presidency, and gets to own the outcome.

For Americans at large, the larger takeaway is that we don't have to witness scenes of returning body bags, defeat, and frenzied evacuation of Americans and allies if we don't create these situations to begin with. The fall of Kabul has inevitably been compared to the fall of Saigon, and for good reason. The wars in South Vietnam and Afghanistan were both ill-conceived disasters that dragged on, cost lives and treasure, and resulted in humiliation. And neither had to happen; we had no good reason for extended stays in either country, propping up doomed puppet regimes and hoping for a happy ending that was never going to come.

In acknowledging the failure of the U.S. intervention in Afghanistan and the good sense of finally withdrawing, but also expressing regret over the messy conclusion of America's role, Americans demonstrate more wisdom than most government and military officials have shown over the years. If the political class can't learn from its mistakes, maybe it will at least take a hint from public sentiment.

NEXT: Bo Burnham: Inside

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  1. Americans criticize Biden delaying and botching something that a competent person would have been able to accomplish. We ended up with the Taliban acquiring a cache of materiel, thirteen dead US servicemen, Americans abandoned in Afghanistan, Afghani allies stuck there and some of our closest allies livid at us for Biden’s failures to plan and communicate. If that wasn’t enough, drone striking innocent kids on the way out as reported by multiple news sources not named Biden or Psaki.

    1. You didn’t really expect TooSilly to give an honest accounting of the Clusterfuck that Biden created, did you?

      If he did that all his hipster Cornville cronies might shun him.

      Shit, he only acknowledged he has a gun because Antifa made it socially acceptable.

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    2. 54% of Americans say Biden did an excellent job or a fair job. That ain’t bad considering our political divisions. I’d give him somewhere in between.

        1. What’s actually funny is the way you and the conservative lost your minds over this. You actually thought this was the “end of Biden’s presidency”. Lol.

          1. Insofar as anyone thought Biden was actually in charge, then yes these events have ended the Biden Presidency.

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          2. https://www.npr.org/2021/09/02/1033433959/biden-approval-rating-afghanistan-withdrawal

            Amid the chaos of the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan, President Biden’s approval rating slid to just 43% in the latest NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll.

            That is down 6 percentage points from a survey conducted in July and is the lowest mark for Biden in the poll since taking office. The decline is principally due to independents — just 36% of them approve of the job he’s doing, a 10-point drop.

            That a majority of independents now disapprove of his performance is bad news for Biden and Democrats. They’re a key swing group, one Biden won in 2020 but who now think he’s off track.

            1. People are misinformed. That approval rating can easily rebound. We’re not even close to an election.

              1. You’re an absolute moron and unable to comprehend just how much of a disaster Biden’s withdrawal performance was

              2. Here in Virginia, every year is an election year and democrats are shitting their pants right now.

              3. Whoa, those goal posts ran fast!

              4. Come on, Sullum. This is sad, even for you.

                1. Perhaps more, revealing: ‘People are misinformed,’ it has, like the rest of its’ in-group, little or 0 regard for those who hold differing views.

            2. Biden’s approval rating slid to just 43%

              I’m shocked and appalled that so many people still pretend that Biden is anything but a vegetable.

              -jcr

              1. Vegetable is far too kind. He’s actively malicious. Condemning a country to savagery simply to rush a news cycle. Getting out was the wrong decision, but rushing out on a political calculation and leaving Americans behind, women and children to suffer and condemning a nation to savagery — Biden deserves a horse whipping at the least.

          3. The Biden presidency ended the minute he got into office and became a puppet dictator.

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      1. At least he didn’t surrender the armed forces of the United States to the Taliban. Or drone strike kill hundreds of innocent children. He should receive a trophy!

        1. Or release the leader of the Taliban 5000 hardened Taliban fighters from prison. Or call American soldiers losers and suckers. You ain’t got shit to say.

          1. Every thing you say is stupid.

          2. There were about 5,000 at Bragram. Including IS-K and Al Queda. They walked free due to Biden. Maybe he should get a second trophy.

            1. They walked free because the Afghan govt collapsed. The US had already turned that base over to the Afghans when it fell to the Taliban. We’d had to restart the war and get right back to square one to stop it from happening.

              1. “They walked free because the Afghan govt collapsed.”

                Had we made arrangements to turn them over to the Afghan government that bullshit might fly.

                But we abandoned Bagram in the middle of the night and didn’t even tell them we were doing it.

              2. They walked free because Biden abandoned the best place to retain as the last place to hold. Restart the war to take someplace that we we were holding through July 3? This is nonsense. Even for you.

                1. We have not abandoned the best place to evacuate from. We just never used it at all. Ramstein is easily the best base to evacuate from. We could restart the evacuation even now with no end date. It would all be very orderly – almost Germanic. It would be almost impossible for suicide bombers to attack crowds because it would be almost impossible for either crowds or suicide bombers to get there. We wouldn’t have even needed to fly evacuees out of there before vetting them. They could have remained there for months – nay years or decades.

                  1. OH, BOY! JFree here to pitch more bullshit hoping to defend droolin’ Joe, JFree’s BFF!:

                    “We have not abandoned the best place to evacuate from. We just never used it at all. Ramstein is easily the best base to evacuate from. We could restart the evacuation even now with no end date…”
                    Strangely, no one familiar with the conditions on the ground has even hinted at what you are claiming. Given that you haven’t been there, it’s a very good guess you pulled this from some random site and are claiming it in the hopes of excusing a bit of droolin’ Joe’s colossal fuck up. Suggest you come up with a WHOLE lot of support, or admit you are (again) full of shit and STFU

                    “…We could restart the evacuation even now with no end date. It would all be very orderly – almost Germanic…”
                    2) So we fly in new troops without support of the Afghan gov’t (which was abandoned by droolin’ Joe) or our allies and START THE WAR ALL OVER AGAIN?! Against an enemy using our latest weaponry which we handed over to them?!
                    What ever you’re smoking, I don’t want. It makes you STUPID!

              3. So then they weren’t released by Trump then? Can you at least try to get your shit straight, Jakie? It’s awful early in the morning for anyone not named sarcasmic to be shitfaced.

            2. They got nothing on the Judean People’s Front.

              1. Peoples’ Front of Judea, or nothing. The JPF are wankers.

          3. No, Biden released 5,000 ISIS and al queda terrorists

          4. about those 5000 Taliban fighters. what do we always do at the end of a war? I’m waiting, no i won’t wait since your to stupid to know, we always release POW’s. that how you start the end of a war, it also shows you are serious about ending a war. Or would you rather we end the war and keep the prisoners forever.

      2. Ahhahahahhahahahahhaaaaa, how’s Joe’s breakfast taste today?

      3. No, they didn’t. Sometimes I can’t tell if you’re a liar or just delusional. Probably some of both.

      4. If you believe that polls targeting specific demographics represent the views of Americans as a whole, you are delusional.

    3. It wasn’t just Biden’s failures to plan, the entire rest of the MIC, the Pentagon, the CIA, the State Department, and Blackwater had their own plan, and their plan was to stay in Afghanistan for another trillion dollars or so. Despite the fact that Trump had announced a plan to pull out the troops a year-and-a-half ago, absolutely no plan whatsoever had ever been put forward for actually doing so. The MIC was simply going to ignore Trump until Trump was no longer relevant and then when Biden announced he was sticking to Trump’s plan, the MIC simply assumed they would be able to talk him out of it, convince him a well-managed pull-out would take at least 4 or 5 years, certainly well beyond 2024. Which is why Biden was correct to say this pull-out was never going to be accomplished without chaos ensuing – everybody involved was determined to make sure the pull-out never happened at all.

      1. It’s not a bad theory, but if it were true then we should have seen much more pushback from the MIC when the decision was made to withdraw all the contractors providing support and maintenance to the Afghan air forces.

        Not just because it was money taken out of their pockets, but also because they were the very people most likely to recognize the consequences of that course of action.

    4. ”.. Americans abandoned in Afghanistan, ”. WHY were they there? They went in ILLEGALLY based on a totally fake conspiracy theory, that had NO PLANES.. and without UNSC nor UN mandate.. and for what.. the cia/Mi 600B$ annual poppy industry? Search ”.9/11 Hologram Plane Theory – Bill Cooper RIP Nov 5 2001”.

    1. Biden isn’t competent to stand trial. How do we impeach his handlers?

      -jcr

      1. Through firing squads?

  2. A confidential trove of government documents obtained by The Washington Post reveals that senior U.S. officials failed to tell the truth about the war in Afghanistan throughout the 18-year campaign, making rosy pronouncements they knew to be false and hiding unmistakable evidence the war had become unwinnable

    There is zero chance we will forestall interventions in future if the BS of past interventions remains ‘confidential’.

    1. Let’s start with the latest and work our way back. First is Biden’s phone call with Ghani – you know, the one where Biden pressured Ghani to “…project a different picture…” “…whether it is true or not…”

    2. The WaPo should publish them all, without redactions. The American people should know the truth. I frankly do not trust WaPo to tell the truth. Hence, my inclination to demand publication of the documents.

      1. I don’t foresee this occurring, too many in power stand to lose too much. And WaPo is a running dog outlet, they know who feeds them.

    3. We have a solid idea of what happened leading up to and during Vietnam. That didn’t dissuade us from going into Afghanistan, Iraq and several other places. I agree the entirety of the information should be shared but I don’t think it will help anytime soon. The public support for mask mandates, vaccine passports and censorship is a data point for government doing things to other people. Tribalism demands strong arm actions.

    4. Don’t worry JSlave, Joe promised a transparant administration!

  3. I am very sad, how can this happen, living in peace and helping each other is the main goal of God.

    1. living in peace and helping each other is the not main goal of Government.

      1. And leftists flat out reject it

  4. Shameful scenes like those in Kabul don’t have to happen if we avoid military interventions.

    “Shameful scenes like those in Chicago don’t have to happen if we avoid societal erosion.”

    “Shameful scenes like those in Washington don’t have to happen if we avoid fiscal irresponsibility.”

    1. Yep. Empty platitudes.

      It’s what you get when a Reason writer cannot either blame the latest disaster on conservatives, and both sides it.

      Because Biden owns this disastrous last scene. And this article is just another leftist’s attempt to pull the curtain closed even though it is still going on.

    2. Others have made this point. Chicago has far more deaths in any year than our worst year in Afghanistan. Maybe we should abandon.

    3. We had a president who was against military intervention. Reason spent four years attacking him, and worked round the clock to prevent his re-election.

  5. The chaos at the end had everything to do with the failed nation building and nothing to do with the withdrawal. In fact the chaos made the withdrawal all the more impressive. We almost got sucked back into that shit but thankfully Biden was determined to get out no matter the optics or the immediate politcs of the moment. And fuck the media.

    1. Sullum, there was very little impressive about the evac. Your spin attempt is frankly much more impressive, because you have so little to work with.

      1. What would you have done differently?

        1. Not have SleepyJoe in charge.

        2. Adhere to the agreed May 1 deadline. Unilaterally extending it was done so Biden could have an ego trip photo op event on Sept 11.
          Set a deadline of March 1 to have all civilians removed. That would give another two months to track down stragglers and get the out.
          Comprehend the intelligence. When Biden was free-styling at a presser saying that the intelligence was wrong and the Taliban would not take over, China was meeting with the Taliban knowing they were about to take power.
          Communicate these details to our NATO allies who were there for us. People doing a “fair to excellent” job at a task do not have the UK Parliament condemn them for said task. Germany was pissed too. And they are about to elect a new Chancellor.
          Maintain the two runway Bagram airbase, which is away from the population center of the country. Easier to defend. Less chance for crowds. And maintain the IS-K and Al Queda prisoners held there instead of just abandoning that base in the middle of the night.
          Not drone striking families, which resulted in the deaths of innocent children. Unless you believe Biden and Psaki that these were top IS-K members.
          Have a plan in place that removed or destroyed military equipment. They finally did this on the last day or two in Afghanistan.
          Develop a plan months in advance to determine who there is eligible to come here and make that happen.
          Notify DoD and DoS that anyone that will be involved that is not on board can take early retirement. Anyone that stays and sandbags will be fired (DoS) or court martialed (DoD).
          Cancel the vacation should the shit hit the fan.

          1. There were multiple deadlines for Americans in Afghanistan to leave. You’re fooling yourself if you think we were gonna psychically “round up” people in Afghanistan by force. That’s not how it works. You tell the mfers to evacuate and most listen to you. The ones who stayed were trying to make a life in Afghanistan. Those people were never leaving until the last minute.

            I’ll agree with about Biden talking up that Afghan military but even still imagine if Biden had trashed the Afghan govt. People would have blamed Biden for undermining the confidence of the Afghan govt.

            “Develop a plan months in advance to determine who there is eligible to come here and make that happen.”

            Congress did that years ago. It’s called the SIV program. There are legal requirements that have to be met before an application can succeed. It was taking 18-24 months to process an application. That was Congress’s answer to that issue. Biden was bound to follow the law more or less. You just don’t know what you’re talking about.

            1. Biden telling them everything will be fine is incongruent with what was occurring on the ground. He did the same to our allies. This is why he was condemned by the UK Parliament.
              People who smell a little smoke that are told by the fire department there is no problem are probably staying inside the building. This is what happened. If you tell the people, “The building is on fire. You must evacuate. Please head to the emergency exit at the end of your hallway in an orderly manner.” you would have a different outcome. If Trump or Bush were President, and did the identical, would you rate it is “fair to excellent?” I would rate it as equally disastrous.
              Did we notify the people months in advance they need to coordinate with us and do X, Y and Z for them to leave? Did we have a plan once they were brought here? Where are they going? Who exactly is staying because the current reporting is they don’t know.
              The DoS answers to Biden.

            2. psychically “round up” people

              psychically

              Your local Reason editor, ladies and gentlemen.

              1. Do they have Professor X handling that?

            3. “There were multiple deadlines for Americans in Afghanistan to leave.”

              Yes, Lord of Shit, after Biden threw the plan in the trash, he floundered all over the place.
              Not helping you support your steaming pile of lefty shit.

          2. Adhere to the agreed May 1 deadline.

            Start with that. That May 1 deadline was CONDITIONAL. Namely – conditional on the Taliban and the Afghan govt coming to some sort of peace agreement. That was never going to happen. The Taliban has never had the slightest interest in sharing governance with infidels. They want to stone them. And whatever leverage the Afghan government had in that was pissed away when the US ordered that govt to release 5000 Taliban/etc from prison.

            So what do you do when the Taliban strings that along until May 1 and nothing happens?

            1. “That May 1 deadline was CONDITIONAL. Namely – conditional on the Taliban and the Afghan govt coming to some sort of peace agreement.”

              Yes, it was, and all conditions had been met at the time that Biden threw the plan in the trash, cowardly piece of lefty shit.

            2. You don’t do anything. You are out of Afghanistan as are all Americans by May 1.

        3. Made evacuation plans for everyone before losing control of everything except one runway.

          1. Oh, so just say fuck Congress’ SIV program. Everyone come to the airport for an evacuation! What you fail to understand is that Afghans have been coming here under the SIV program for years. Congress decided that whole process. It wasn’t up to Biden to just say fuck it man everyone gets in. It took the collapse of the Afghan govt for that “fuck the SIV program everybody gets in” to happen. If you’re upset about the SIV program take it up with Congress and Trump because apparently Trump intentionally slow walked those applications.

              1. They’re even easier. Those Americans had ever opportunity to leave Afghanistan in May, June, July and some of August. They had American citizenship and could left on a commercial airline. Biden even offered to pay for the plane ticket. You can’t force people to leave or it’s not practical to try to. It’s the same as a hurricane. Most listen to warnings to leave (17 warnings to these Americans in Afghanistan). Some don’t listen. They all have their reasons. It’s no easy thing to leave your home. I jusy assume these Americans were trying to make a home in Afghanistan. I’m glad Biden saved them. Our military is so badass. Heroes.

                1. Gee, I guess you’re right: no one could have done a better job.

                  People falling of airplanes and airport choke points that create target opportunities for terrorist suicide bombs that kill American troops in harms way was just as good as it could be.

                  Biden’s a hero.

                  The way he rolls his eyes at grieving mothers of dead troops is just his hero’s duty.

                  1. Civilian casualties spiked by an enormous amount after Trump personally removed “try not to kill civilians” restrictions in Afghanistan. I bet you were real mad about that. Actually I bet you didn’t even know about it.

                    1. Drunken shitstain’s cite fell off.

                    2. You’re just lying and babbling, as usual. Your masters failed miserably, as usual.

                      Now fuck off.

                    3. Trump isn’t responsible for the Afghans. But at least he didn’t war crime drone strike innocent children on the way out. Diabolical.

                    4. Trump killed an uncountable number of more civilians than Obama and certainly Biden.

                      He removed restrictions on killing civilians. He actually campaigned on doing that.

                      Did you listen to anything he said, or pay attention to anything he did, or is he basically just an abstract Santa Claus figure to you?

                    5. Shitstain is shoveling the bullshit by the bushel:

                      “Trump killed an uncountable number of more civilians than Obama and certainly Biden.”
                      Lie.

                      “He removed restrictions on killing civilians. He actually campaigned on doing that.”
                      Lie.

                      “Did you listen to anything he said, or pay attention to anything he did, or is he basically just an abstract Santa Claus figure to you?”
                      Does shitstain ever post without lying?

                2. “Did you see the dress she was wearing? What did she expect to happen?” — Sullum.

        4. Not close down Bagram and Kandahar. Use encrypted email and SMS to notify US citizens and SIV holders/applicants of flight deadlines. Use Afghan Security Forces, before the collapse, to secure routes as needed. Not withdraw air support. Not withdraw logistical support. Not have bullshit excuses such as ‘this would create a panic’ for not telling those likely to be impacted in Afghanistan the truth. Not have bullshit excuses and lies for the American people. Generally act like a professional and a fucking grown-up, which is apparently outside of your area of expertise? The rest of it sure as fuck is, I spit-balled that in 45 seconds.

          1. You didn’t take a nap and sniff some pre-teen girl’s hair in the middle. So it was cogent.

    2. “…and nothing to do with the withdrawal.”

      That would be laughable if the truth were not so grim.

      US citizens were turned away at the gates of HKIA and abandoned to the Taliban and ISIS.

      1. Those Americans were told to leave Afghanistan months ago. The govt offered to pay for their flights. Much like people who don’t evacuate from hurricanes those Americans in Afghanistan knowingly took a risk. They’re lucky Biden ordered the military back into Kabul for that rescue.

        1. This is why you use a sock pseudonym – so you can spout absolute revisionist bullshit without trashing what little credibility you have remaining.

          Days before the Taliban overran Kabul Biden was still telling everyone – publicly – that the Afghan military was doing fine. Meanwhile, we know now, he new it was all falling apart and was pushing the Afghan president to lie about it.

          1. Biden and Blinkin were both saying the Taliban would not take over Afghanistan when the Taliban was doing just that. I believe it was Blinken that said there would not be a repeat of Saigon and we got photos showing otherwise.

            1. I’d like to know when we knew the Taliban was going to walk into Kabul. It looks like the Afghan prez surprised his own govt when he fled with all that money. I’m giving Biden and Blinken the benefit of the doubt just because even the anti Taliban resistance in Afghanistan apparently didn’t see the swift Taliban takeover coming. It looks like the tribal leaders switched sides and caught alot of people by surprise.

              1. In July, even the WH press corps knew the Taliban was taking over. A reporter asked Biden and he shit her down. Without humility. The intelligence community knew. The press knew. China knew. What exactly are you giving Biden the benefit of the doubt for? Being told 2+2=4 and him being adamant it is 5?

              2. You often ask a foreign President to lie about the situation or they will lose aid because things are going well.

                ….mind you, what Biden did was impeachable just a few years ago.

              3. I knew when the news report said they were less than 30 miles away on the Friday before Kabul fell. If you didn’t, based on the territory they held and the map, then, you are both ignorant and stupid.

                1. I knew it was bad when I heard Ghazni had fallen, but that was mid August. Over TWO WEEKS after Biden had his phone call with President Ghani to get him to lie about things not being so bad.

              4. I knew months ago. So did anyone else with a brain. So democrats really didn’t know.

              5. Maybe I’m missing something here, but (to me) the fact that the deal was with the Taliban heavily suggests there wasn’t a whole lot of faith in or incentive for the US backed Afghanis to keep control of the country.

                Seems a pretty big signal to me, that shit would fall apart in a minute. That and anyone who thought about for 5 seconds since 2004 knew this puppet regime was toast the second we left. Plans for such an eventuality should have been in place and executed to some degree.

    3. Deranged water boy.

      The chaos at the end has everything to do with JOE FUCKING EVERYTHING UP. He managed to convince upwards of 20% of the populace that staying in Afghanistan would have been better than his sloppy pullout.

    4. The chaos at the end had everything to do with the failed nation building and nothing to do with the withdrawal.

      Again, who do you think you’re fooling with this “2 + 3 = 5 has nothing to do with ‘3’ and everything to do with ‘2’!” bullshit besides yourself?

      1. He’s not paid to fool anyone, he’s paid to suck Koch.

    5. “The chaos at the end had everything to do with the failed nation building and nothing to do with the withdrawal…”

      Pretty sure Lord of Shit believes that pile of bullshit. Why? Well, he’s dumber than mud, that’s why.

  6. Good article. The truth is that the only way to avoid shit shows like Afghanistan and Vietnam is to avoid them in the first place. Plenty of armchair quarterbacks are telling us that the withdrawal could have been better. The truth is no one can not really say how much better it could have been. There is no way of knowing if a different approach would work better? History tells us that these type of pullout end in disasters. For those so sure that disagree I say this, don’t tell me how the Afghanistan withdrawal could have been done differently, show me a military withdrawal that was successful.

    1. Biden lied, people died.

      And they are still dying.

    2. Shut your fucking shilling mouth you limp assrag.

      Hell yeah the withdrawal could have gone better, but Joe had to get his photo op date, never mind what the real situation is next to the perception. And then those people we wouldn’t abandon? Our US military dogs? Equipment?

      But yeah, keep blaming the victims you amoral turd.

    3. “We can’t pull out of Germany or Korea or Japan without risking toppling the government and stranding thousands of Americans in a war zone! No other way to leave a country militarily!” – M4E

      1. We are to my knowledge pulling out of any of those three countries. So I am still waiting for a historical pull out that went well.

        1. I’m waiting for a comment from you which is not an embarrassment to anyone over the age of 13.

        2. I know I may be reaching into historical military obscurity here but, France? The Phillipines? Grenada?

          Educating you about history wasn’t the point. The point was how stupid and destructive the assertion “a military cannot withdraw without an inevitable clusterfuck” is to other forever wars.

    4. Mogadishu. Clinton was ‘risk averse,’ which led to the rapid drawdown and withdrawal, and there was sporadic small arms and mortar fire, but, successful. Now, shut the fuck up, The withdrawal from Kabul was, as any time military operations are run by politicians, a disaster. So, yes, there is a way if knowing if another way would work better, keep Biden out of the planning.

      1. Would I be right in saying that this withdrawal happened after the incident that is depicted in Mark Bowden’s book Black Hawk Down?

        1. I would certainly be right in pointing out the irrelevance of that comment.

      2. Kuwait. Libya.

        I don’t mean to advocate interventionalism. Specifically the opposite; “We can’t withdraw without making or leaving things worse than when we went in.” is a recipe for forever wars. This forever war in particular.

    5. Your guy is responsible for this, and since you supported him, so are you. You have an ocean of blood on your hands.

      1. Hardly an ocean. The human body has about 10 pints. If 200 people were killed in the terrorist explosions, we are talking 2000 pints or about 25 gallons.

        1. As a lying pile of lefty shit, you’re ignoring the continuing casualties, and hoping those with at least average intelligence will also?
          Not gonna happen, asshole; tired of lefty lies.

  7. Afghanistan Departure

    I mean, sure, if you don’t count the thousands of American civilians and billions of dollars worth of American military equipment still left in Afghanistan and the vow by our ruling regime to continue fighting in Afghanistan, then yes, we’ve “departed” Afghanistan.

    1. We departed Afghanistan is like saying the Titanic departed the surface of the north Atlantic.

      1. The captain saved over 100,000 deck chairs!

  8. I know Reason goes for these dishonest, intellectually barren articles to pay the bills, but did you ever consider the subscriber drop off is because they are dishonest, intelectually barren articles?

    I come here to watch Reason get shredded in the comments and pick up some actual reporting of facts from the audience.

  9. Referring the Biden Regime’s monstrous Afghan fiasco as “chaotic management” is a masterpiece of euphemism.

  10. “Only about a quarter (26%) say the administration has done an excellent or good job; 29% say the administration has done an only fair job and 42% say it has done a poor job,” Pew added.”

    So 55% say the administration has done and excellent/good/fair job in pulling out of Afghanistan? Seriously? If this is at all accurate then I can only conclude that such party faithful will vote for D no matter what happens.

  11. “It was a foreign concept to the Afghans, who were accustomed to tribalism, monarchism, communism and Islamic law.”

    You forgot a big one: graft and corruption

    1. I didn’t grow up in the tribes of Afghanistan and even I’m a little fuzzy on the distinction between a democratic government modeled after Washington and tribalism. Seriously, mask mandates, tearing down statues, and mutilating children’s genitals… DC or Taliban?

  12. “We did not get everybody out that we wanted to get out,” Gen. Frank McKenzie, the head of U.S. Central Command, conceded after the last planes left Kabul.”

    So Biden’s a liar. And gets people killed. Spin that.

    1. Jakie’s trying his best, but on top of Biden leaving him less to work with than the crack addict sack of semen that sprang from his loins, Jakie’s also about 40 IQ points shy of being able to pull off even the most entry-level sophistry.

  13. I’m amazed at how little the Obama administration has been criticized for Afghanistan’s mission creep. It was his administration that turned Afghanistan into a woke nation-building experiment. It was his administration that determined that American military might could be converted into positive change for women’s rights, schools teaching western values etc.

    1. Obama ain’t criticized as he should be since he’s the grand dragon of the Social Reform and Utopian Club. He sees himself, ditto his sycophants, as owning a moral prestige and pedigree that are impervious to any challenge.

      That’s how they roll. Cloak yourself as a social prophet-mutter something about brotherhood, equality, justice-and leverage it to dismiss condemnation.

      Or, worse, leverage it to camouflage a path to power and control. It’s the sine qua non of the progressive statist. And gets one an extra cocktail at the party meetings.

    2. “I’m amazed at how little the Obama administration has been criticized for Afghanistan’s mission creep. It was his administration that turned Afghanistan into a woke nation-building experiment. ”

      Even odder that people who bemoan our “cultural imperialism” didn’t mind THAT cultural imperialism.

    3. Obama was too inexperienced and cautious to stand up to the military establishment.

      Biden is older than everyone else and has been around longer than everyone else, and he has no fucks to give.

      1. Obama was too inexperienced and cautious to stand up to the military establishment.

        I disagree. I believe that Obama felt he could reimagine the Military as… not a force that kills people and breaks things, but a force that can usher in progressive Western Liberal Values, and do so by killing people and breaking things.

        And I’m not trying to make a flip statement about progressive Western Liberal Values, but merely where Obama’s priorities were.

        1. And his stupidity lies in his attempts. Among other areas – Ocare comes to mind.

        2. That final drone strike Biden pulled based on a “tip” with complete disregard to collateral damage is an extension of Obama’s legacy. Make no mistake about it, we are still under the Obama administration.

          1. You just skipped over the Trump administration, which in addition to dropping the largest non-nuclear bomb ever on Afghanistan, removed restrictions on killing civilians.

            Do any of you pay attention to what’s actually going on, or does your chosen cable news flapping jaw give you literally all your information? Doesn’t even matter if that information contradict’s yesterday’s information, does it?

            1. Shitstain’s on fire here:
              Let’s start with one irrelevancy:
              “…which in addition to dropping the largest non-nuclear bomb ever on Afghanistan…”

              And add a lie:
              “…removed restrictions on killing civilians…”

              All these lies in an effort to deflect attention from one of the biggest fuck-ups in US foreign policy perpetrated by the demented POS occupying the WH!

      2. …and he has no fucks to give. That might explain the drone strike that killed innocent Afghani children.

        1. Do you actually care about dead Afghan civilians, or are your propping up their corpses in service of a political party?

          It matters since the political party you’re whoring out dead children for killed orders of magnitude more children in these places.

          1. Biden has left hundreds if not thousands of hostages as a result of his colossal fuck-up and shitstain wonders if a commenter on a web site has any concern for casualties?
            At one time , I imagined this was just stupidity. Now it’s obviously a combination of stupidity AND dishonest.

    4. Maybe you should be more clear to which member of the Obama Administration you are referring.

      The few people around defending the management of the withdrawal are the few who draw the distinction between Senator Biden, Vice President Biden, and President Biden; like they suffered some sort of seizure or nervous breakdown between the last two.

  14. >>>Shameful scenes like those in Kabul don’t have to happen if we avoid military interventions.

    of course not, but remember you’re non-fiction. and B is the turd sandwich *and* giant douche on this.

  15. That’s a shit headline, but great click-bait, which is its function, one supposes. Approval voiced in a poll is not ‘cheering’ by any stretch of the imagination. Congratulations on the variation of the ‘wouldn’t have happened if she wasn’t wearing that short skirt’ argument for this current goatscrew. Here’s a revelation, it is possible to plan for, and execute a withdrawal, without this level of mendacity, ignorance, smug stupidity, and self-aggrandizing false assertion making.

    1. Biden refuses to take questions because everything has been answered!

      1. Ha, I suspect he is not permitted by whomever his handlers are. The incidents of Angry Joe the bully are as bad for optics as Handsy Joe the pedophile/misogynist creep. That, and he’s a remarkably dim bulb, he choice the correct career path, public servant.

        1. how dare the Handlers stop such golden moments as “lying dog-faced pony soldier”

    2. it is possible to plan for, and execute a withdrawal, without this level of mendacity, ignorance, smug stupidity, and self-aggrandizing false assertion making.

      Incompetence. You left out incompetence. Also, defeat. It’s possible to withdraw without being defeated (see Grenada).

  16. Lord of Strazele
    September.3.2021 at 8:47 am

    “54% of Americans say Biden did an excellent job or a fair job. That ain’t bad considering our political divisions. I’d give him somewhere in between.”

    This stupid lying pile of lefty shit is pissing on my shoe and claiming it’s raining, and hoping we’ll believe it!
    Fucking hilarious.

  17. The people who started a useless war demanding that we lose it in a clean and dignified way.

    1. Shitstain’s drunk in the morning again.

    2. >>started a useless war

      Biden was front & center.

      1. There was only one vote against the 2001 AUMF in all of Congress. I’m not interested in your trying to foist all the failures of Bush and Trump onto the nearest Democrat. Why don’t you try not electing failures next time?

        1. Shitstain hasn’t sobered up any.

        2. “There was only one vote against the 2001 AUMF in all of Congress.”

          Unless it was Biden doing so…not sure how he’s not neck deep in responsibility for this.

          You know who DIDN’T vote for it? Trump

        3. Trump never voted for invading Afghanistan or Iraq. Biden did for both of them. Without humility.

          1. Maybe shitstain will sober up and read these comments. I doubt it; seems being a fucking drunk, lying lefty pile of shit is all shitstain ever hoped for. And all he ever accomplished.

          2. Trump gets a moral pass for his total lack of government experience? Unfortunately he squandered that by bombing Afghanistan’s civilian population more than anyone else.

            1. “Trump gets a moral pass for his total lack of government experience?”

              Shitstain still can’t read.
              No, he gets a pass since he never voted for the war.
              Only two two-syllable words in that sentence; perhaps it’s simple enough for even a drunken pile of lefty shit to understand!

  18. I despise liberals, I don’t completely agree with conservatives, so I turn to libertarians and find just another flavor of hypocrisy. I agree that we need to end military interventionism, but its an undeniable fact that without some degree of isolationism in its place in the form of a secure border and regulated migration (but not restricted trade), America would not be free and independent for long. You cant have your cake and eat it too. We have 3 choices, secure our borders, control the world outside the borders, or allow someone else to come in and take control of us.

    1. The reason we have a border problem is we do not have an efficient reasonable path for legal immigration. That is a feature, not a bug. There is too much for politicians to gain by kicking that can down the road.

      1. And, not surprisingly, those who opposed Trump (you among them) did nothing to change that.
        Like Cyrano’s nose, your hypocrisy precedes you.

  19. Pop-up vid in the lower right of my screen has Biden defending his colossal fuck up with every lie imaginaable:
    We planned this……..
    We were clear-eyed about this…..
    We planned for every contingency……
    And if you were stupid enough to vote for droolin’ Joe, you’re probably stupid enough to swallow such heaping piles of bullshit.
    Or, if you were as stupid as the adolescent fan-boy Brandyshit and did what you could to make sure Trump didn’t get re-elected, since he really wasn’t your father-figure fave, you deserve to have shit piled on you 10 feet deep.

  20. For Americans at large, the larger takeaway is that we don’t have to witness scenes of returning body bags, defeat, and frenzied evacuation of Americans and allies if we don’t create these situations to begin with.

    Well, duh! Of course, there might be other situations we create by not creating these situations.

    So, the other takeaway is that if we want nuanced, informed foreign policy analysis, Reason is not the place to go.

  21. “Rescue groups: US tally misses hundreds left in Afghanistan”
    https://apnews.com/article/afghanistan-immigration-a56824dbd3e9953e65589d30924d9435

    How many “hundreds”?
    Anyhow, droolin’ Joe’s butcher’s bill is a ways off from a final tally. Want something fucked up? Give it to Joe.

  22. The warmonger’s argument: “We were attacked! We had to do something!” (And keep doing it, over and over, for 20 years?)
    “We” don’t do anything. There’s no “we”. I am an American who predicted at noon, PDT, on 9/11 that the govt. (not my govt., and therefore not “our” govt.) would use this attack as an excuse to attack our rights and hurt us more than this attack. Then came the “Patriot Act” (traitor act) and the infamous NDAA, the written notification that due process was renounced by the feds. And no one noticed. Or, if they did, their protests were blacked out by MSM. It’s hard to know what Americans want or think with the censorship.

  23. “Safe Estimate: 7,500 Americans Are Now Hostages in Afghanistan”
    https://noqreport.com/2021/08/18/safe-estimate-7500-americans-are-now-hostages-in-afghanistan/

    Droolin’ Joe’s legacy just keeps on growing!

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