Reason Roundup

80 Percent of Americans Say Abortion Should Sometimes Be Legal

Plus: Columbus cops charged over treatment of protesters, Biden cancels Trump's TikTok ban, and more...

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Americans remain fairly evenly split on the morality of abortion. In a new Gallup poll, 47 percent of people said that abortion is morally acceptable, while 46 percent said that abortion is morally wrong. "The 47% who say it is acceptable is, by two percentage points, the highest Gallup has recorded in two decades of measurement," the polling organization notes.

Over the past 20 years, the split between the number of Gallup poll respondents saying abortion is morally acceptable and those saying it's morally unacceptable has run a wide gamut, ranging from zero to 20 percentage points.

"Americans have been typically more inclined to say abortion is morally wrong than morally acceptable, though the gap has narrowed in recent years," Gallup reports.

From 2001–12, the average gap between the two positions was 11 points. Since 2013, the average gap has been five points.

In 2020, the divide between the two positions was three points—slightly smaller than it was this year, but with a higher percentage of respondents (47 percent versus 44 percent) saying abortion is morally wrong.

As expected, Democrats are more likely than their Republican counterparts to deem abortion morally acceptable. And over the course of the Gallup poll, both Democrats and Independents have become more likely to hold this view.

In the latest poll, 64 percent of Democrats, 51 percent of Independents, and 26 percent of Republicans said abortion was morally OK.

While Americans may be split evenly on the moral acceptability of abortion, the percentage who believe it should be legal is still significantly higher than the percentage who believe it should be illegal.

Some 32 percent of poll respondents this year said abortion should be legal "under any circumstances," while nearly half—48 percent—think it should be legal "under certain circumstances." Only 19 percent say it should be "illegal in all circumstances."

"The nearly one-third of U.S. adults who support fully legal abortions is the highest such percentage since the early to mid-1990s, when it was consistently at that level," Gallup points out.

But of those who think it should be sometimes legal, many would only see it so in narrow circumstances:

Currently, 33% favor legal abortions in only a few and 13% in most circumstances. This translates into 52% supporting a more restrictive approach on abortion, saying it should be either illegal in all circumstances or legal in only a few. Meanwhile, 45% favor a less restrictive approach, preferring that it be legal in all or most circumstances.

Perhaps that explains why the legal/illegal divide is so different than the divides on morally acceptable/unacceptable and pro-choice/pro-life.

For decades, Gallup has also found a fairly even split between the number of Americans who consider themselves "pro-choice" and who consider themselves "pro-life":

Just as the public is evenly divided in their beliefs about the morality of abortion, so too are they about equally likely to personally identify as "pro-choice" (49%) versus "pro-life" (47%).

Americans have been closely split in how they identify their abortion stances in recent years. Since 1998, an average 47% of U.S. adults have considered themselves pro-choice and 46% pro-life. Between 1995 and 1997, the public tilted more pro-choice (52%) than pro-life (38%), on average.

In the most recent poll, women were somewhat more likely than men to consider themselves pro-choice (52 percent versus 45 percent) and college graduates were more likely than non–college graduates (65 percent versus 40 percent).

Gallup's poll was conducted May 3–18 and involved a sample of 1,016 American adults. Based on the question, the margin of error was ±four to five percentage points.

In related news, a federal appeals court has blocked a Missouri law banning abortion after eight weeks:

The 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in a ruling Wednesday upheld a lower court's injunction of the law, which would ban the procedure after eight weeks of pregnancy. The statute also specifies that an abortion cannot be performed "solely because of a prenatal diagnosis" indicating a child might have Down syndrome.

The three-judge panel ruled that Missouri's law amounted to a ban, rather than a restriction, on the procedure.

Full ruling here.


FREE MINDS

Three police officers in Columbus, Ohio, face criminal charges stemming from their treatment of anti–police brutality protesters last May. The charges come as part of an investigation by a special prosecutor and independent investigator into alleged misconduct during protests over the murder of George Floyd. That prosecutor, Kathleen Garber, said the investigation is ongoing.

For now, Columbus cops have been charged with offenses including assault, dereliction of duty, falsification, and interfering with civil rights:

Officer Traci Shaw was charged with three counts each of assault, dereliction of duty and interfering with civil rights, after video taken at the event allegedly showed Shaw exiting her police cruiser and pepper-spraying individuals. A witness said Shaw allegedly did so without provocation or warning, according to the complaint.

Officer Phillip Walls was charged with two counts each of assault, dereliction of duty and interfering with civil rights, after video allegedly showed him pepper-spraying "peaceful protestors who are standing on the sidewalk," according to a complaint.

Sgt. Holly Kanode was charged with one count of falsification and one count of dereliction of duty, after she allegedly told an officer filling out an arrest report that the individual had "grabbed hold of another Officer and jerked him to the ground with his gear," despite body camera evidence to the contrary, according to a complaint.


FREE MARKETS

Biden cancels Trump's TikTok ban. The Biden administration is dropping its predecessor's pursuit of a U.S. ban on Chinese-origin apps TikTok and WeChat. But the new administration "will conduct its own review aimed at identifying national security risks with software applications tied to China," notes Al-Jazeera. "A new executive order on Wednesday directed the Department of Commerce to undertake what officials described as an 'evidence-based' analysis of transactions involving apps that are manufactured or supplied or controlled by China."


QUICK HITS

• Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton is under investigation by the state bar association. The organization seeks to determine whether his "failed efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election based on bogus claims of fraud amounted to professional misconduct," reports the Associated Press.

• Oregon lawmakers have approved a measure banning cities from fining or arresting homeless people "for sleeping or camping on public property when there are no other options."

• Are holograms the future of remote chat?

• Alabama is considering using COVID-19 relief funds from the federal government to build new prisons.

• "The yield on the 10-year Treasury note, which helps set borrowing costs on everything from corporate debt to mortgages, closed at 1.489%…its lowest settle since March 3," notes The Wall Street Journal.

• "A Los Angeles County sheriff's deputy has been charged with assault and evidence tampering stemming from an arrest she made in Lancaster two years ago," the Los Angeles Times reports.

NEXT: Gorsuch Pushes Stronger Fourth Amendment Protections

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  1. Americans also love the death penalty, but murder is wrong, right?

    1. But some death row convicts might be innocent!

      1. As opposed to zero percent of babies.

    2. I don’t love it for the unborn who haven’t had a chance to become d-bags yet. AT 50 though I’ve had a lifetime of proabortion propaganda and have known nothing else. Like if I was born in Germany in 1920 – could you say you honestly would not have been an indoctrinated Nazi? You would just think that was the way things are. Much like aborters. Maybe they should punch out early.

      1. Wonder now that the progs are worried about there not being enough babies being made to support the welfare state that maybe they will start taxing abortions.

  2. “Biden’s message as he lands in Europe: America’s back”
    […]
    “PLYMOUTH, England — In his first remarks as president overseas, Joe Biden attempted to send a message to the rest of the world: America will resume its leadership role, recommit to global alliances and push democracy over the rise of authoritarianism…”
    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/09/biden-message-eu-trip-492720

    Yep, we’re gonna use US taxpayer dough to stick our nose in all sorts of stuff we ought to ignore!

    1. More interventionist, but more interventionist within normal parameters. The new libertarian way!

      1. For the Reason crew, libertarianism begins and ends with how sex and drugs work for the upper-middle class.
        Free speech, deregulation and pacifism can go fuck themselves.

    2. I’m sure the world was inspired by the dementia man.

    3. Biden’s message as he lands in Europe: “America’s on its back”

      FTFY

      1. Sounds more like a Kamala thing.

    4. If you want to see how far gone our media is, look at Nichole wallace talking how great Bidens speech was. It was a terrible speech and he barely made it through the speech.

      1. Baghdad Bonnie

      2. He could shit his diapers, drop his pants and start openly masturbating while singing nursery rhymes and Wallace would applaud like a clapping seal. De o rats aren’t allowed to have ideas or thoughts of their own. They are subservient collectivists.

        The escalation of the civil war can’t come soon enough.

    5. “Biden’s message as he lands in Europe: America’s back”

      So MAGA succeeded?

      1. Well somebody must have made America Great Again™️.

      2. Biden should’ve taken the princess along so she can say she’s been to Europe.

    6. It amazes me how Democrats can be so ignorant of the U.S. Constitution. It’s like they pretend it doesn’t even exist 100% of the time.

      1. …And what is the USA? It’s defined in the U.S. Constitution so what Democrats are really doing is pretending this nation isn’t the USA but a Democratic National Socialist nation (def; Nazism).

        No need to conquer a nation with a war when [WE] mobs can just “democratically” *pretend* it into whatever nation they want to make it. Oh hey yeah; the new revolution of voting to make the USA a Nazi country… And when that fails just create ‘fiat’ voting ballots.

    7. He spent the first day trying to find Plymouth Rock.

    8. “to stick our nose in all sorts of stuff we ought to ignore!”

      He just wants a way to get Hunter involved in foreign policy.

      1. I assumed it was an allusion to the odor of female Europeans’ hair.

  3. Three police officers in Columbus, Ohio, face criminal charges stemming from their treatment of anti–police brutality protesters last May.

    It was either that or make the protesters into liars.

    1. How did the Democrats get people to riot, loot and protest against racist Trump leading to racist cops, when it’s Democrat Mayors who hire, train, write the procedures and manage their police forces that are racially kneeling on necks and other abuse of blacks (and the poor in general)? I really want to know.

      In the Columbus case (along with NYC and Derrick Garner, Minneapolis and George Floyd, Louisville and Breonna Taylor, and more) it’s a Democrat run police force. Seems to me people ought to be protesting how Democrats manage their police.

      1. Propaganda comrade.

      2. Have you heard about the power?
        (what power)
        The power of the trump
        The trump with they power.

        (sang in the voice of David bowie in the labyrinth)

        1. +1 Chilly Down

  4. Biden cancels Trump’s TikTok ban.

    CHINA’S PUPPET.

    1. What does that make Hunter?

      1. A racist.

      2. China’s bitch.

      3. A guy who rapes his underage niece?

  5. Why are abortion polls leading the Roundup? Or any poll for that matter?

    1. Why are we still talking about abortions?

      1. Im a dude. I’m not talking about abortions

            1. Indominable male privilege dominated!

        1. Hey now! Black Lives Matter, unless they’re on the wrong side of the uterus.

          And I did not capitalize that. My tablet auto corrected.

    2. Because enb is upset that her mom didn’t get an abortion

      1. “I have to march because my mother could not have an abortion,”

        – Maxine Waters

        1. Can you please provide a citation? That is a dilly! 🙂

            1. What’s funny is that Carville says (several times perhaps) that he is “touched by God.” Saying someone is “touched by God” is how people referred to the retarded in medieval England.

              1. Well he’s not wrong then.

              2. Well, who am I to question this Mideaval wisdom? 😉

            2. Damn! She is not a bright bulb!

          1. General rule – If it sounds so stupid that nobody could possibly say it, Maxine Waters has said it.

          2. I can’t link here for some reason. But if you search Maxine Waters Wikiquotes its there in the 2000s section. Said on Tucker Carlson’s show on CNN.

    3. Because covering women’s issues is kinda ENB’s “beat”.

      1. Because “women’s issues” are confined to abortions and sex work?

        1. That and proper sammich construction.

          1. In that case, I think ENB really needs to do a hard-hitting piece on the rising cost of groceries.

          2. Also, baking pies.

      2. Everyone knows the only issues all women care about are the rights to sell temporary access to their genitals, fornicate in front of an audience, and slay their pesky offspring.

        1. So, are you and Idaho Bob opposed to a Reason writer even discussing the results of an abortion poll? What’s the beef here?

          1. No beef, but ENB is a one-trick pony. The commentariat is less inclined to see post-first wave feminist causes as libertarian ones.

          2. Polls are stupid.

          3. She didn’t discuss the results, she pushed a narrative around the results. Because the actual polling was more than the 2 questions she discussed.

          4. The beef is that most people don’t give a shit about abortion as an issue, and only really think about it when someone reminds them it exists.

            Abortion is not an important political issue. It’s fringe bullshit that distracts from the myriad other, actual, pressing, serious, potentially catastrophic issues we currently face as a nation.

            1. Like an epidemic of weirdos practicing state-sanctioned baby-killing.

  6. The culture war is not over but it has been settled. Time and the decency of modern Americans will sift this in a predictable manner.

    Clingers hardest hit.

    1. Just like the science has been settled, huh?

      1. When people talk about settled science it can be helpful to remind them that calomel (mercury chloride) was an accepted and widely used medication up until the early middle part of the 20th century.

        1. Along with thalidomide, a wonder drug for treating morning sickness (especially if you happen to be pro-choice—don’t ask why). #settledscience

          1. Thalidomide actually is a good drug that can provide real benefits for some serious conditions (e.g. some cancers, leprosy) and minimal harm if used properly.

            There really is no safe dose for mercury chloride. Especially when you consider it’s most common use was for constipation.

          2. Thalidomide is used in treating waisting disease in HIV/AIDS patients, so, never say never, FDA.

    2. And then the entire country will look like the beautiful utopia that is Chicago. Right, gecko?

  7. Oregon lawmakers have approved a measure banning cities from fining or arresting homeless people “for sleeping or camping on public property when there are no other options.”

    There are always options.

    1. Lawmakers’ homes?

    2. The this law will not be a problem.

  8. The organization seeks to determine whether his “failed efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election based on bogus claims of fraud amounted to professional misconduct…”

    It’s nice to know something can get government attorneys investigated, but of course it would have to be political.

  9. Are holograms the future of remote chat?

    HollowGram.

    1. Sharks will deliver them.

      1. With laser beams on their heads?

    2. More loke HollahGram, amirite?

    3. Are holograms the future of remote chat?

      Always.

    4. Pornhub will be the first to come out with them.

    5. Yes, right up until the second “Help me Obi Wan Kenobi” joke.

      1. If you’ve ruined my opportunity to be recruited by a shadowy quasi-government organization only to turn on them and shoot them before the mission gets started for them to turn out to only be holograms because they predicted I would turn on them, I’m going to be pissed.

        1. Real super secret organizations suck. The only ones I would join are in fiction (SHIELD, UNIT, UNCLE, etc.).

    6. more likely Holograms will be great for the only fans market.

    7. https://youtu.be/2prsYbV1TkM

      “The audio is still working?! Excuse me! I paid twenty million dollars to acquire this fucking company!”

    8. Hllwgrm

      Dropping vowels. All the cool apps are doing it.

  10. Alabama is considering using COVID-19 relief funds from the federal government to build new prisons.

    The first misuse of ‘Rona relief funds.

    1. Nope, according to the Biden administration, the only misuse is giving it back to the taxpayers

      1. Reason kind of celebrated the vaccine lotto as not that bad.

        1. That’s giving it back to a specific “correct” tax payer

          1. This is New Reason, where government transfer of tax funds to others is okay when they find it acceptable and agreeable.

            1. I believe in Ohio the money was already allocated for the purpose of providing the vaccines. They had more than enough vaccine so they had to spend it somehow. It seems to have worked so at least they got to use up the vaccines they already paid for.

              The whole project was overspent and a lot of it was wasted. That is par for the course for anything the government does.

              1. Just because money is allocated doesn’t mean it has to be fully spent. In fact states are free to return unspent federal dollars. There is no impoundment on the states to spend like there is on the Executive.

            2. This is New Reason, where government action, of any kind, is okay when they find it acceptable and agreeable.

              e.g. shooting and killing an unarmed and non threatening protester.

            3. Probably better and more effective than wasting it on a terrible ad campaign

              1. The propaganda adds the state of Michigan has put out are truly disgusting.

              2. Not when you discover they plan to jail the unvaccinated.

    2. It’s possible to make that work. Just fill here new prisons exclusively with Marxist subversives.

  11. “A new executive order on Wednesday directed the Department of Commerce to undertake what officials described as an ‘evidence-based’ analysis of transactions involving apps that are manufactured or supplied or controlled by China.”

    “Evidence-based”, as opposed to “made-up-crap-based”?

    1. Like what 99% of people say 99% of the time?

      1. 99.99% of Americans were blissfully ignoring TikTok before a bunch of TikTok users allegedly screwed with attendance at one of Trump’s rallies. Then suddenly one American — Trump — wanted to destroy the company.

        1. Chinese election interference.

          1. An attack on our Democracy. An act of WAR

        2. You’re terrible at math.

        3. So more evidence there if Chinese election interference than ever provided for Russia. Got it.

          1. I’m not a liberal. I don’t go around talking about Russian election interference.

            1. Lol. Not anymore you mean. But you still push every other damn anti trump narrative.

            2. No, you’re not liberal. You’re a socialist democrat authoritarian shill.

              At least you finally admit it.

  12. Oregon lawmakers have approved a measure banning cities from fining or arresting homeless people “for sleeping or camping on public property when there are no other options.”

    Hmm. Isn’t sleeping or camping on the property of Oregon lawmakers an option?

    1. If they are on public property with out permission then oragon pice have the right to shoot them in the face (thanks to the DC metro precedent). I think this problem will solve itself

      1. Capitol Police, not MPD. So good luck ever seeing the camera footage from 1/6.

    2. I assume getting a job and paying for a place to live is not an “option”.

  13. 2/3 of the womyn in that photo won’t be needing an abortion anytime soon.

    1. What if they identify as pregnant?

      1. Looking forward to the first lawsuit from a m-t-f transgender who had her maternity leave request denied.

    2. Womyn? How dare you. They’re “birthing persons.”

  14. Gov. Kay Ivey, lawmakers, consider possible use of federal COVID funds for new prisons

    This is outrageous! Those prisons should be built with Biden’s *infrastructure* funds!

  15. https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1402980832718036995?s=19

    As the “Lafayette Square” debacle once again illustrates, media and cultural elites created an entire body of fake knowledge to oppose and ultimately oust Trump

    1. GG’s take:

      Over and over we see the central truth: the corporate outlets that most loudly and shrilly denounce “disinformation” — to the point of demanding online censorship and de-platforming in the name of combating it — are, in fact, the ones who spread disinformation most frequently and destructively.

    2. Then Trump and Barr are morons for not being aware that they were timing their fascist spectacle with a preplanned assault on the protesters which I don’t believe for one fucking second.

      1. You don’t believe Trump was a moron?

        1. The secret service surely was aware that their was planned assault. How stupid are you people? How fucking stupid? Of course they knew the assault would take place before they marched over there to hold a bible upside down for the spectacle. Jesus fucking christ
          Talk about Beta mfers. You guys are weak minded fools.

          1. I’m not hearing a no…..

          2. Few here are in any competition with you for the Stooooooooopid Gold.
            Fuck off and die steaming pile of lefty shit

          3. Keep coping, Jacob.

          4. I’m aware that the city comes to my neighborhood every Wed morning to pick up trash. Me putting my cans out doesn’t cause them to come.

          5. Aren’t you Pod, and also Jacob Sullum?

            1. Nah, he’s always an idiot. Sullum is quite good on many issues (guns and drugs leap to mind). Just not anything adjacent to Trump, apparently.

      2. Nobody cares what you think Jacob.

        1. Hilarious. God damn you’re so dumb. Almost like a monkey. You don’t like me and Jacob so your monkey brain combines us when it’s so clear from my style of communication that I’m not that guy. Jacob is so much of a better writer then me.

          1. Oh yeah, that’ll really throw them off the scent, Jake.

          2. “Jacob is so much of a better writer then me.“

            Lol, ok Jacob.

            1. He thinks ending with a malapropism is a clever ruse.

              Yep, it’s Jacob.

            2. “And such a bigger penis, too”

          3. Don’t pretend like you didn’t powerlevel yourself. It’s on the site forever now, and you’re going to get reminded of this every time you post now.

            grrizzly
            June.4.2021 at 10:13 pm

            Sullum, don’t ever stop wearing your mask in order to protect your sickly wife. I was practically never wearing one in the last 14 months, let alone now. And I will not get vaccinated. Stay scared.

            Lord of Strazele
            June.5.2021 at 7:32 am

            You’re confused if you think I give a shit about you.

          4. “Jacob is so much of a better writer then me”

            “And handsomer, and smarter, with a big dick and he gets all the hot chicks!”

            Super convincing Jacob Stroozle.

        2. Truly the rebuttal of a winner.

        3. We need a selective mute button that mutes dumb shit like this but leaves interesting and on topic comments.

      3. Simmer down sullum.

        1. I was watching a South Park episode earlier today where Cartman did exactly this. Incognito and raving about how awesome that Eric Cartman is.

      4. You seem to have a very fluid definition of the word ‘facist.’

        1. “When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

          ’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

          ’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”

          1. The question is, are you trying to communicate, or just talking to yourself in public?

  16. https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames/status/1402983107339358211?s=19

    As you can probably imagine, the massive rebranding of Critical Race Theory is about to begin in schools, etc., now that people know what it is and don’t like it. (Next step will be to rebrand and criticize CRT itself while still doing CRT.) Gotta keep your eyes open.
    If they are teaching about racial privilege, they’re teaching CRT. If they are teaching about racial equity or racial justice (outside of narrow, historical uses), they are teaching CRT. Words like “voices,” “decolonize,” “transformative,” “diverse,” etc. are giveaways.
    Currently, essentially everything related to “inclusion” is treated under a Critical Social Justice (thus, when racial, Critical Race Theory) lens. There are various ways for them to downplay this, like saying “whiteness” isn’t really part of CRT, or CRT is just about law.
    The truth about Critical Theories in general is that they are abusers of language and manipulators. They will gladly say “Culturally Responsive Teaching (CRT)” isn’t “Critical Race Theory (CRT)” so “you don’t even know what’s happening.” They probably arranged that on purpose.
    We talk a lot about the virtues and skills needed to combat Critical Race Theory and Critical Theories more generally, and I only rarely mention discernment. Discernment requires knowledge and wisdom, so you must get informed and pay attention. If it feels wrong, dig.
    This, though, is why it’s so important to combat Critical Social Justice Theory at the level of what it DOES, not by its name. To these liars and manipulators, the names are all disposable. You have to stop their stereotyping, scapegoating, discrimination, segregation, etc.
    Regarding Queer Theory, they’re probably less apt to rebrand and more apt to accuse you of encouraging childhood suicides if you don’t give them their way. You have to stand firm and ban inappropriate sexualization, unscientific characterizations, etc. Then it gets ugly.

  17. Are holograms the future of remote chat?

    Serious question: When will we have televised actual holographic images that manifest as real objects when viewed from different vantage points?

    1. Imagine the possibilities for porn.

      1. Queue up “Vulcan Love Slave”, Quark.

    2. I’m waiting for smell-o-vision

      Richs comment is still applicable

      1. It has been done. There are VR headsets with smell o vision.

        1. Hopefully, not for porn.

      2. There were dozens in the early 2000s. They were expensive and after the novelty nobody wanted it, so they went out of business. You ended up with a useless device, because you couldn’t buy replacement smells.

        1. You mean like the wildly successful macbook of the late 90s early 2000s? Or the blackberry and its market power?
          My point is that technology changes, and it’s about time I should be able to smell fish while watching porn!

      3. SCTV did that forty years ago……..

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go6_uL3Az8w

    3. Can you say more about what you mean by “manifest as real objects”?

      1. He means you could walk in a full circle around the hologram and it would be visually indistinguishable from a real object.

        He just said it succinctly.

        1. White Mike was just playing his favorite game, http://www.fallacyfiles.org/redefine.html

          1. Well, the question either lacked candor or he was too stupid/lazy to look up a word he did not understand.

            And yes, I constructed that sentence using the simplest terms possible. For his benefit. Because I’m a giver.

  18. On another example of TDS caused more harm and the media was wrong..

    HcQ is found to have mitigated risks from covid by 200% per study. This is off the AMAM quietly admitting the drug benefitted covid patients in January.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/study-hydroxychloroquine-increase-survival-rate-200-percent

    1. We’ve been saying this for a year now.
      People like Ron Bailey and publications like Reason are complicit in deaths that could’ve been prevented if there hadn’t been a centralized, top-down campaign against existing treatments.

    2. Oklahoma To Return Hydroxychloroquine Supply, Get Refund

      In a statement, Hunter credited the company’s leadership for working with the state to find a solution.

      “They recognized we were in competition with every other state in the nation to get whatever we could to protect Oklahomans,” Oklahoma Attorney General Mike Hunter said. “When it was determined the drug wasn’t effective in combating the virus, they did the right thing by refunding our money.” 

      https://oklahomawatch.org/2021/05/07/oklahoma-finds-buyer-for-its-hydroxychloroquine-supply/

      1. So it wasn’t used in spite of its effectiveness and shit-for-brains here thinks that makes his point.

      2. When it was determined the drug wasn’t effective in combating the virus

        2021/05/07

        State bureaucrat not up to date on latest findings. News at 11.

      3. Oh. A politician said something. That totally negates the scientific study. Good work sullum.

        1. Sullum being strazzle would make so much sence if it is true.
          Also it would further cement my not clicking sullum articles

          1. Their reasoning abilities seem to be on the same level. But I’ll continue to call him Sullum for the giggles.

            1. I think it’s awesome.

              He gives us the opportunity to directly remind him what a dishonest weasel he is while also avoiding clicking his articles.

              win-win

              1. If it’s not him, and it’s certainly possible that it isn’t, it’s flabbergasting that Stroozle would respond to the OP of one of the rare commenters here in a way that would indirectly indict Sullum as a regular shitposter of Media Matters-quality talking points.

                1. That it’s not laughably derided by the commentariat, but instead seen as plausible does not speak well of the impression Sullum has created for himself.

                  1. TDS will do that to you.

                    1. Yes, but what is ever more obvious is that Trump did not cause the derangement. He merely unmasked it.

          2. Very much is true.

        2. Article: Here’s scientific evidence that hydroxy works, and it wasn’t used because of politics.

          Sullum: Yeah well here’s a politician playing politics with it. Check mate.

    3. That was a non peer reviewed preprint.

      From the publisher “ Readers should therefore be aware that articles on medRxiv have not been finalized by authors, might contain errors, and report information that has not yet been accepted or endorsed in any way by the scientific or medical community.

      We also urge journalists and other individuals who report on medical research to the general public to consider this when discussing work that appears on medRxiv preprints and emphasize it has yet to be evaluated by the medical community and the information presented may be erroneous.”

      The JAMA study was a multi center placebo controlled double blind study and peer reviewed.

      “Readers should therefore be aware that articles on medRxiv have not been finalized by authors, might contain errors, and report information that has not yet been accepted or endorsed in any way by the scientific or medical community.

      We also urge journalists and other individuals who report on medical research to the general public to consider this when discussing work that appears on medRxiv preprints and emphasize it has yet to be evaluated by the medical community and the information presented may be erroneous.”

      The JAMA study was a randomized double blind multi center clinical trial and peer reviewed.

      https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2772922

      They found no benefit. There are multiple other high quality studies supporting this conclusion. In practice nobody is using this drug for Covid anymore except for maybe some quacks out there.

      This happens often that “studies” reported in the media are misleading just as much of what you read in the press is.

      1. Oops double posted

        1. LOL. I love how you guys keep running back to these claims. There are literally dozens of stories showing the benefits of a low cost drug, and you refuse to admit it because “Trump said something”.

          I get you have a talking point you continue to push. I’ll keep referring to the dozens of doctors who used HcQ noting a benefit, the studies showing a benefit, the fact that AMA removed warnings on HcQ as maybe helping for Covid in January, etc.

          You keep pushing back against a low risk, cheap drug for political reasons.

      2. You know what else has not been peer reviewed?

        Any of the data on any of the Covid vaccines.

        1. You know what has been peer reviewed? Climate models and covid/mask modeling that has shown to be incorrect as predictors.

          There is also the peer review replication crisis issue.

      3. Peer review has become meaningless. If journals like nature thinks that changing articles to fit political narrarative is okay then the “peers” shouldn’t be trusted

      4. Was that JAMA study the one that found no effect when it ignored all the conditions for effective use? That is, the claim was that HQ administered with zinc early would reduce the effects of COVID – and the study I remember administered HQ without zinc to recovering patients and noted that it didn’t kill off the dying virus any faster.

  19. This is what the left believes is moral:

    https://twitter.com/anthgulino/status/1402723257875243009?s=19

    For everyone saying vaxxed people are protected & it’s none of our business if someone else has theirs: I’d like to introduce you to the concept of variants. If enough people refuse the vaccine & new variants emerge that could beat my vax, then you bet it’s my fucking business.

    1. Despite all the claims of caring for everyone, it always boils down to “me”.

      1. Some people have to stay home so Karen feels safe.

        Other people have to work so Karen feels comfortable.

        And Karen says you’re selfish if you don’t agree.

    2. Seems nobody understands selective pressure. In this instance, new variants will only arise because the vaccine is the selective pressure. Vacinated people will only be infected with variants resistent to the vaccine and spread through that population the same as the unvaccinated.

      1. Your talking science, not The Science.
        Heretic!

          1. Their They’re. Don’t be so hard on yourself.

      2. “new variants will only arise because the vaccine is the selective pressure.”

        Um, no. At least not ‘only.’

        Engineered or not it’s a coronavirus, coronaviruses are endemic to the human population, and we’ve been dealing with variants long before there were any vaccines.

      3. “new variants will only arise because the vaccine is the selective pressure”

        Can you explain the precise mechanism of selective pressure?

        1. You use orange antibacterial soap on everything, it kills 99.5% of bugs, leaving only superbugs to replace them. You demand your Pediatrician give you antibiotics every time your child sniffles, antibiotic-resistant strains adapt and proliferate and antibiotics become useless

          1. That is true but there is some difference. Antibiotics treat disease but do not prevent infections.

            There is very little measles around because we vaccinate so your chances of getting it are very small.

            It is very likely that we will need to modify the Covid vaccine at some point. It is difficult to predict what can happen in nature. Thus far it seems the variants can infect more people but do not seem to cause worse disease. It is also possible that in a few years the infection will burn out and more or less go away.

            1. “Antibiotics treat disease but do not prevent infections.”

              You REALLY need to stay in the shallow end.

              Prophylactic (look it up, you retard) antibiotic use is commonplace and much of it has strong data to back it up.

              https://www.ashp.org/surgical-guidelines

      4. Mutations occur at a given rate. The more individuals or virus around the more random mutations.

        It is true that a more virulent mutation will be dominant in a given population. Thus non vaccinated individuals would be expected to be at greater risk because thus far the vaccines have been effective against known mutations. However because vaccinated individuals and recovered cases provide some level of herd immunity that would decrease the risk of exposure.

        Should one develop that renders the vaccine ineffective then we will need a new modified vaccine.

        The virus cannot replicate by itself. It is we who are putting evolutionary pressure on it by decreasing the number of potential hosts.

        1. Mutations occur at a given rate.

          No they don’t. The rates change all the time.

          This is like saying infections spread at a given R0 when that R0 value is dependent on uninfected population sizes.

          1. I think that’s what he was saying. The more people are infected, the more copies are being made and the more mutations will occur.

            1. That’s a variable rate, not a given rate.

    1. Given the inflation of the currency supply, restrictions on energy production, and new regulations that are a lodestone on production in general, this is expected.

      It’s the democrat way.

  20. Woman who grew up during the red guard in China reveals parallels to today’s modern left and the use if CRT as cultural marxism.

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/watch-survivor-of-maos-china-stuns-school-board-with-chilling-warning-about-critical-race-theory

    1. The Cubans, eastern Europeans, and ex chi-coms I know are all terrified.

  21. In today’s other edition of the mainstream media pushes narratives not facts….. new IG report shows the media was wrong yet again regarding Trumps walks across the street. He did not clear protesters for a photo of. Tear gas wasn’t used, just smoke canisters. (Sorry ENB) in fact the only tear gas used was away from the park by D.C. Metro. (White Mike and ENB crying now)

    Liberals on Twitter saying the Obama era IG is lying.

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/inspector-general-debunks-claims-made-by-biden-harris-left-wing-media-against-trump

    1. Lord of Sully also crying.

  22. The way ENB frames the abortion polling is hilarious. An overwhelming majority do not support her and the Democrat’s preferred policy that abortion should be legal in all cases. 80% saying that abortion should be legal at least sometimes is not a win for the current legal regime in abortion in the USA.

    1. It’s just something to distract you from the fact their preferred candidate is an abject failure.

    2. Abortion should be 100% mandatory for socialists

      1. Retroactive abortion should be 100% mandatory for socialists

        FTFY

    3. You shush! She’s narrowly snatching an 8-2 loss from the jaws of defeat!

  23. This article by Gallup is what is called narrative building and ENB pushes it. Most recent polling shows people support 2nd trimester abortion bans, which us the vast majority of abortion legislation and matches Europe.

    What ENB is attempting to do is say abortion is supported in the 1st trimester as moral so all abortion is moral.

    Have Gallup ask about partial birth abortion and see what the morality number is.

    1. Or better yet, lets call it a dilation and extraction but show them a video of the process. We’ll call it by its euphemism and explain exactly why it needs a euphemism.

    2. We need more education and proliferation for day after pills. Which logically should have eliminated over 90% of abortions by now.

  24. Would be nice of reason to mention how those Chinese aps are now collecting biometric information in their new ToS. Use fingerprint unlock? China now has your face and print. Weird how the behaviors of these companies never get mentioned.

    1. Private company, they can do what they want, just like Clearwater AI… O wait reason is opposed to them because… I’m not sure why

      1. Blackwater is also a private company… wonder what Reason’s stance is lately on them.

        1. Biden is in office and using them so it’s all good

          1. * within norms *

  25. Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton is under investigation by the state bar association. The organization seeks to determine whether his “failed efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election based on bogus claims of fraud amounted to professional misconduct,” reports the Associated Press.

    Is the state bar paying for a full audit? Until they do the statement regarding election fraud is still purely opinion.

  26. That polling about access to abortion care isn’t surprising. Literally all my friends support the Koch / Reason / ENB position that abortion should be 100% legal right up until the very end of the 9th month of pregnancy.

    #StandWithPP
    #SaveRoe

    1. Why not after that?

  27. Hmm

    https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1402984236634701829?s=19

    1/ @cdcgov has now analyzed the VAERS data on #Covid vaccine myocarditis in teens and young adults. It is terrible.

    Based only on received reports – and remember, most side effects go unreported even when they are serious – the rate is as high as 40 times the background rate… [link]
    2/ But that likely sharply underestimates the real rate – because CDC used a very long window (31 days) to determine the background rate – when in reality most cases occur within days of the second dose.
    The proof of how bad and common this is comes in the age stratification…
    3/ Let’s assume the vaccines DON’T cause myocarditis in people over 65. In that case, we would expect to see (per CDC) 36-360 cases, the background rate. The midpoint is roughly 200.
    How many cases have been reported in that age group?
    26.
    4/ In other words, using the midpoint as a reference, only 1 in 8 cases of myocarditis following vaccination have been reported in the 65+ group.
    That sounds about right knowing what we know about voluntary side effect reporting (the lag in reporting TTP cases also shows this).
    5/ If the gap between REAL incidents and REPORTED cases is similar in the teen/young adult group, we need to multiply the number of reported cases by 8; that would imply the vaccines cause myocarditis in young people at up to 300 times the background rate…
    6/ Sorry, DELETED the tweet where I said CDC didn’t sex stratify – they didn’t by AGE GROUP, but they did offer an overall breakdown – 80-20 male/female. If that is true for young adults, the math changes slightly – the top-end potential risk for men is more like 500x, not 600x.
    7/ By which I mean young men could be raising their risk of myocarditis as much as 500-fold in getting the second mRNA shot. Again, this estimate may be high – it goes down if you figure myocarditis in young adults is frequently being reported to VAERS, or a higher base rate…
    8/ But you cannot get it anywhere 1. The risk here is real and substantial.
    So remind me why anyone under 25 (30, really) is getting this shot?
    Oh yeah.
    Because they have to.

    1. And, in case it was missed (esp. for parents who have to share decisionmaking), the CDC is pretty flatly stating (FWIW) that the condition is definitive/distinguishable between the Pfizer/Moderna (mRNA) vaccine and the J&J (conventional antigen) vaccine:
      Since April 2021, increased cases of myocarditis and pericarditis have been reported in the United States after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna), particularly in adolescents and young adults. There has not been a similar reporting pattern observed after receipt of the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine (Johnson & Johnson).

      Warp speed (but not icky, stupid Trump’s stupid warp speed) mandatory vaccinations for everyone!

        1. Yeah. Especially considering, we’re only 2-3 mos. into the large scale ‘clinical trial’.

          There’s a very valid case to be made that the J&J vaccine is derivative of a/the ‘gold standard’ and, relatively, the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines would’ve been restricted to narrow use if not outright rejected. That’s not to say that anyone should be prevented from getting the mRNA vaccine if they want it but that, in a system practically threadbare with holes, the FedGov somehow found several new ones to fuck.

      1. From the same CDC article:

        CDC continues to recommend COVID-19 vaccination for everyone 12 years of age and older given the greater risk of other serious complications related to COVID-19, such as hospitalization, multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children (MIS-C), or death.

        …for an age group that has almost zero risk.

        1. Actually myocarditis from the infection itself is a known complication and has been reported in children. It is a myth that children don’t get Covid. They just fight it off better.

          Anytime you have a systemic inflammatory condition it could potentially affect the heart muscle as it does other muscle tissue. That is what you get muscle aches with the flu.

          The cases reported have been rare and mild. Generally resolving in a few days.

          https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(21)00085-0/fulltext

          1. Actually myocarditis from the infection itself is a known complication and has been reported in children. It is a myth that children don’t get Covid. They just fight it off better.

            So what you’re saying (the facts are) is, after months and millions of cases of naturally occurring myocarditis as a result of COVID infections it wasn’t until after we started vaccinating children that the myocarditis they suffered became notable/noticible. Understood. (Seriously, in your own source they combed through the literature in 2021, found 9 cases, 1 of which they can confirm to be COVID).

            Moreover, or regardless of the number of mRNA angels you can arrange on the head of a pin, the J&J vaccine confers immunity without the same side effect.

            1. Yes but nobody really knows the actual number of cases because nobody has done that study. Also with very sick patients it is easy to miss the diagnosis unless there are complications. What we see are case reports, not population studies.

              How many millions of doses and we are just seeing this now?

              It is such a small number that it is hard to give it statistical significance. Nothing wrong with choosing the J&J vaccine.

              1. It is such a small number that it is hard to give it statistical significance. Nothing wrong with choosing the J&J vaccine.

                Aside from paying up front and warp speed approval of untested previously unsuccessful technology.

    2. I suspect a big part of the issue with these side effects emerging is that people are getting the second shot WAY too soon after getting the first one.

      I got the J&J Gates nanobot injection because it was a one-time thing, and had no side effects at all.

      1. Good thought

  28. Speaking of polls, I’m finding one from Morning Consult about the origin of covid-19 heartening in some ways–and frustrating in others. Those that believe covid -19 escaped from a lab in Wuhan breaks down like this by part affiliation:

    32% of Democrats believe it leaked from a lab in Wuhan.
    41% of Independents believe it leaked from a lab in Wuhan.
    70% of Republicans believe it leaked from a lab in Wuhan.

    That doesn’t mean the rest of them are buying the story that it jumped species naturally. 28% of Democrats, 37% of Independents, and 18% of Independents say they don’t know or have no opinion.

    “Overall, only 26% of the American people believe that the coronavirus moved naturally from animals to humans.”

    https://morningconsult.com/2021/06/09/coronavirus-lab-leak-wuhan-china-poll/

    It is heartening to see that despite the stonewalling by our bureaucrats, despite the complicity of the news media, and despite the censoring of the lab leak theory on social media, only 26% of the American people bought the official line–and still buy it after ll the recent revelations came out.

    It is heartening to see that the bullshit detectors of most Americans still appear to be properly calibrated. It is also heartening because, since the Democrats enjoy a one party government, the only significant check on the party in power may be the fear of public opinion, and if only 26% of the American people are buying the Democrats’ bullshit on this, then maybe they’re less likely to buy it on spending, taxes, the Green New Deal, etc., too.

    1. The way that this polling data is frustrating is because most of the appropriate lessons to draw from the Wuhan lab story still seem to be getting lost in the shuffle. For instance, how many Americans are aware of this tidbit of information?

      “Despite the [Wuhan Institute of Virology] WIV presenting itself as a civilian institution, the United States has determined that the WIV has collaborated on publications and secret projects with China’s military. The WIV has engaged in classified research, including laboratory animal experiments, on behalf of the Chinese military since at least 2017.”

      —-U.S. Department of State

      Even IF IF IF the Wuhan Institute of Virology is not the source of covid-19, Fauci’s NIAID shouldn’t be sending U.S. taxpayer money to fund research at a lab that collaborates with the Chinese military on what may be experiments involving biological warfare. I’m trying to think of a Cold War analogy. Imagine if the U.S. Department of Energy existed in the 1950s, and we found out they were funding the Russians’ version of the Manhattan project with taxpayer money!

      Even IF IF IF the Wuhan Institute of Virology is not the source of covid-19, Fauci’s NIAID shouldn’t recklessly be funding extremely dangerous research at a lab with a terrible safety record–including failed safety inspections, past outbreaks due to research, and alarm bells rung by our own inspectors after touring the facility.

      We don’t need to know whether covid-19 escaped from a lab to know that Fauci, the NIAID, and the NIH have all behaved incompetently in this–regardless of whether covid-19 escaped from a lab.

      Right now, there’s a bill being debated in the Senate over whether to restrict the ability of American citizens to invest in Chinese companies with ties to the Chinese military. Why hasn’t there already been a decision to cut off all taxpayer funding by the NIH to labs that collaborate with the Chinese military?

      Why hasn’t Fauci been removed for incompetent leadership and a full review initiated of the NIH’s funding programs? The necessary information is already publicly available. That doesn’t require an ongoing investigation. That doesn’t require a Senate bill. It just requires Joe Biden and the politicians who oversee these agencies in the House and the Senate to do their jobs.

      If part of Dr. Fauci’s job is to be a credible and trusted source of scientific information for the American people, how can he ever do that job again, when 74% of the American people either think he’s full of shit or don’t aren’t sure whether he’s full of shit?

      1. Fauci is nothing more than a mad scientist. He should be hanging by his thumbs.

        1. Thumbs and pecker.

      2. By “Chinese Military” they mean “Dr. Fauci”, right?

    2. It is heartening to see that the bullshit detectors of most Americans still appear to be properly calibrated.

      At least once a news cycle anyway.

      1. Sometimes, I start to wonder if people can be persuaded by facts and logic, and that still appears to be the case.

        There is some question about whether people are starting to believe this because the mainstream news is talking about it, or whether they’re starting to believe it in spite of the news. However, if the fact is that they’re starting to believe it despite the mainstream news pushing nothing but bullshit for more than a year, that’s heartening by itself. Even if they can’t follow the facts in real time, they can be persuaded after the fact.

        ChemJeff, Tony, White Knight, Shrike aren’t necessarily representative of average progressives in every way–not if average Americans, unlike that willfully obtuse bunch, can be persuaded to change their minds using facts and logic.

        From a libertarian perspective, being right on the facts and the logic is one of our few advantages, and, yes, it’s heartening to see that advantage is still an advantage with average Americans–even if the willfully obtuse progressive idiots that happened to wander into this particular bar are impervious to facts and logic.

        1. If you want to persuade people, try having give-and-take conversations instead of daily repetitions of your holding forth on what you perceive as the truth, accompanied by snits if anybody disagrees with you or brings up contrary evidence to what you believe.

          And stop accusing anyone who disagrees with you of being illogical, while you congratulate yourself on being the perfect zenith of logical thinking. That you view Trump as a champion of liberty, and do not see that be is a grifter, is a clear failure of sanity checking of your your logical thinking. It’s easy to go off track with logic; that is why engineers do sanity checks on their designs and calculations.

          1. Neutral, non-partisan Mikey speaks….

            Like herpes, he came back. Please Mikey, go back into remission.

            1. The hit dog hollers. At least 3x now

          2. That you view Trump as a champion of liberty

            Not even LC1789 viewed it that way. Yet despite everyone telling you that for years, you continually assert it as an understood truth. TDS is a real thing.

          3. Possibly because Ken will make the point that regardless of the origin the US shouldn’t be funding Chinese bioweapons
            The progressives here will respond by saying Ken is a conspiracy theory trump cultist.
            Then Ken points out that even if he is a trump cultist his point is still true

            1. Yeah, rational thinking has its benefits, and making sense is one of them.

          4. You’re an antagonistic asshole, using weasel speech to push the democrat narrative. So the rest of us are largely antagonistic right back at you. This shit about civility is like the punk at the bar flicking peanuts at people all night and being a loud asshole. Then crying when someone gets up to slap him down.

        2. “ChemJeff, Tony, White Knight, Shrike aren’t necessarily representative of average progressives in every way–not if average Americans, unlike that willfully obtuse bunch, can be persuaded to change their minds using facts and logic.”

          I don’t know who Shrike is, but you just named two commenters, chemjeff and White Knight who are not progressives. They are libertarians. In the same comment where you mis-categorize their political viewpoint, you claim to be the zenith of factual thinking. Sad.

          1. You are White Knight. And yes you’re a progressive. Jeff is a socialist globalist, so you’re correct there.

            1. So odd that they think defending each other is going to refute people’s perceptions of them.

              Are they really that stupid?

          2. You and Pedo Jeffy are absolutely progs. Stop with your bullshit. You’re not convincing anyone.

        3. Ken, here’s a clue about persuading people: to have a genuine two-way conversation, you have to put yourself out there and risk that _you_ may be the one who receives new facts, or realizes you are being illogical, or ends up changing his mind.

          1. STFU already

          2. seriously, STFU

            1. She’s still a squawking bird named Dee.

          3. It won’t happen with a lying idiot shitweasel like you.

    3. all the news has to do is claim 70% of racist republicans believe the conspiracy theory that it was a lab leak and the rest of the sheep will not want to be considered republican and start denying the lab leak theory even if they think it s true. that is how they will use one statistic to keep the sheep in line. note you have to use racist since that implies republican and you have to use conspiracy since the left likes to think only republicans believe in conspiracies even though they still don’t believe Bush won and still believe Russia helped Trump

      1. But this is after they’ve done that for a year.

        The results we see today are after the media bullshitted for a year, and they still haven’t thrown in the towel on Fauci.

        Only 26% of the people believe Fauci’s bullshit at this point.

        It’s like that time Liz Warren came in third in the Democratic primary–in her home state of Massachusetts–after launching her full court press, most SJW of the SJWs campaign.

        The Democrat voters of Massachusetts are nowhere near as obtuse as Liz Warren and the people in the media who worshipped her, and Democrat voters among the American people are nowhere near as bad as Dr. Fauci and the media who spent a whole year defending him like he was our salvation and demonizing everyone who doubted him as a conspiracy theorist.

        We need to keep the battlefield separate in our minds from the enemy. The American people aren’t the enemy–not even the Democratic voters. They’re the battlefield, and our goal is to capture as much of the battlefield as possible. The enemy is the progressives and politicians in the Democratic party. They’re authoritarians, and they’re socialists. They’re the enemy of the American people–not the voters. Voters are the battlefield.

        1. “They’re the enemy of the American people”

          But not the President who tried to overturn an election with lies after he lost his re-election bid. You are blind.

          1. Still worried about Trump? Stop living in the past.

          2. You’re the enemy, Mike Laursen.
            And the people you shill for aren’t going keep you safe.

          3. What about Obama falsifying evidence to spy on the trump administration?

          4. Are you just as concerned with election officials, corporations, and mass media “fortifying” elections?

          5. Lies? I’m ever saw that. Just all the actual facts about the rampant election fraud. Many of us saw that. But then, we’re not democrat propagandists.

      2. It is a ridiculous question to begin with to take a poll on. The public doesn’t know anything about virology. It is a very esoteric field. There is no conclusive evidence either way. It is pure political spin and conjecture and the poll numbers show it.

        If the accusation was that it began in Switzerland you would get entirely different numbers. Because, you know, Switzerland nice. China bad.

        In fact like many things we may never know the answer. When conclusive evidence one way or the other shows up call me. Until then there is nothing much to talk about.

        1. “It is a ridiculous question to begin with to take a poll on.”

          The truth isn’t a popularity test, but I didn’t cite the poll to show that the virus necessarily came from a lab in Wuhan.

          I cited the poll to show that plenty of Americans have their bullshit detectors properly calibrated, and just because the media and the government are pushing a narrative, doesn’t mean the American people will buy it hook, line, and sinker.

          If only 24% of the American people are buying the government and media narrative from just a few weeks ago, that suggests that 75% of the American people strongly suspect the government and the media are full of shit.

          This is more or less consistent with what we saw in the last Gallup poll on trust in the mass media from just before the election in November of 2020. From the poll on September 30, 2020, 27% of Democrats, 64% of Independents, and 89% of Republicans had either “not very much” faith in the mass media to report the news “fully, fairly, and accurately” or “none at all”.

          32% of Democrats believe it leaked from a lab in Wuhan.
          41% of Independents believe it leaked from a lab in Wuhan.
          70% of Republicans believe it leaked from a lab in Wuhan.

          Some of the narratives that are being projected to us as if they were the mean or the norm are simply bullshit and wishful thinking by progressives. Progressives seem to think the general public are awe, admiring the emperor’s new clothes, but they’re really howling with laughter as the old man prances around naked and his PR people tell us how only the truly popular people can see how fashionable they are.

          If and when oil prices skyrocket, inflation hits, or the world decides to stop parking its money in U.S. denominated debt as the pandemic eases, it’s game over.

        2. Just a coincidence that the epicenter is right next to a bio research lab. No way anybody could think they might be related.

          TBF I’d think the research center possible if this started in Atlanta.

          1. Just a coincidence that the epicenter is right next to a bio research lab. No way anybody could think they might be related.

            It could be related, or it could be coincidence. Or it could be that upgrading an existing lab to a level where they could study zoonotic coronaviruses not far from where the 2002-2004 SARS outbreak originated made sense.

            Suspicions and possibilities are not evidence, just like correlation isn’t causation. Maybe it leaked from that lab, maybe it didn’t. Rely on actual evidence to make your decisions about it.

  29. https://twitter.com/DrKarlynB/status/1402614043790254081?s=19

    They assassinated this woman’s character.

    Dragged her name through the mud.

    And now we know emphatically that she was 100% correct.

    The Democrats and the media are evil and their actions led to more death, not less.
    [Video]

    1. And Reason has no problem with Twitter being kept immune for any liability in promulgating and promoting all the libel and slander.

      1. The same immunity that keeps reason immune from liability for the crap we write here?

        If I were reason and they took that away it would be good by comments.

        1. reason doesn’t moderate the comments like Twitter does

          1. Nor does Reason promote any of the comments here.

            But echo is a retard, so…

  30. Well then that 80% better get the fuck out and vote because access to abortion is going to decline at a fever pitch soon enough.

    1. Hopefully not as rapidly as it declined during the Drumpf years, when the US was literally indistinguishable from The Handmaid’s Tale.

      1. You aren’t going to fearmonger in favor of packing SCOTUS with that attitude!

    2. Which 80%, the 80% that believe that abortion should sometimes be illegal?

  31. We Koch / Reason libertarians who voted for Biden should be thrilled with his performance so far — billionaires are getting richer, after all — but maybe we need to gently nudge him to expand the Supreme Court.

    In an excerpt from her book, @jackiekcalmes examines how Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell quietly installed hundreds of federal judges, waging an insidious war on the judicial branch bound to shape American life for decades to come—and not for the better.

    Insidious. War. On. The. Judicial. Branch.

    Now some conservatives will try to tell you that, if Biden expands the Supreme Court to 13 or more members, it would qualify as “court-packing.” Don’t fall for this cynical manipulation of language. It is, in fact, the Republicans who have been court-packing for years. Adding 4 or more seats to the Supreme Court would actually be un-packing it.

    #LibertariansForBiden

    1. More is less!

    2. There’s a saying that stupidity should hurt. I’m betting that your pain level is nearly unbearable.

  32. “The nearly one-third of U.S. adults who support fully legal abortions is the highest such percentage since the early to mid-1990s, when it was consistently at that level,”

    Pro-choicers: See, we aren’t psychopathic deviants! Abortion is mainstream and ethical!!!!!!!!

    Also Pro-choicers: Those inbred yokel Bible bangers need to stop whining about PP selling baby parts so they can probably be grafted onto mice and used to create new pandemics. They just hate women.

  33. Thread:

    https://twitter.com/APhilosophae/status/1402438754804064262?s=19

    As an example, a 124 new home neighborhood was bought in its entirety in Texas. Average Americans were outbid to a tune of $32million. Homes sold at an avg if 20% above listing. Now the entire neighborhood is made up of SFR’s. What are SFR’s??
    [Link]

    1. San Francisco Refugees?

    2. I guess they didn’t get the memo on rent moratoriums.

    3. Single family rentals. We are literally watching the Great Reset (conspiracy theory that it is, even though it comes from the WEF’s, and others, own words and publications).

      You will own nothing.
      And you’ll like it, fuckers.

  34. I knew the Biden Era would be awesome. I just didn’t know it would be THIS awesome.

    The ten richest Americans are up a combined $141 billion this year.

    Only Elon Musk is down this year (minus $3.71 billion). The other nine — including Reason.com’s benefactor Charles Koch — are doing even better under Biden than I had anticipated.

    #InDefenseOfBillionaires

    1. Musk dared to question the narrative.

      1. I know some Reason writers have claimed Musk didn’t earn his fortune in the completely honest way that Mr. Koch did. Nevertheless, he’s a billionaire, and as a libertarian I want to see billionaires prosper.

  35. https://twitter.com/JudahAriGross/status/1402980365451415564?s=19

    More young left-wing Americans hold a “very unfavorable” view of Israel than of Iran.
    How the hell did we get there?
    [Link]

    1. The left wing are actual nazis.

      Man that was the easiest question I’ve been asked today

    2. We let McCarthyism end and tolerated marxists in this country. Instead of eliminating them.

      That’s how we got here.

  36. If abortion becomes a non-issue, can we finally get on with removing restrictions on birth control (info and mechanisms) and reduce unwanted pregnancies?

    1. By pretty much any definition of unwanted pregnancy, the numbers are down. That’s not necessarily a reason to avoid repealing regulation but it’s also indicates that unwanted pregnancies are not a reason to do so.

      1. There is no reason to restrict information .

  37. “Are holograms the future of remote chat?”

    Who gives a fuck about remote chat. How about remote strippers and blow jobs?

    1. Ummm you can get those devices or so I hear.

  38. I will still believe that many of those opposed to abortion do so with the idea that they will never be in need of the service. These are the folks who are opposed to abortion ,unless it is my daughter who is pregnant, unless I am not finished with school, unless I don’t yet have the job I want, unless there is problem with the pregnancy, unless the fetus has sever health problems, and unless our family is already raised.

    1. I will still believe that many of those opposed to abortion do so with the idea that they will never be in need of the service.

      This is what is known as a non-sequitur. Welcome to the existential crisis portion of your stance. If their numbers continue to grow, meaning fewer people either by choice or happenstance find themselves faced with the choice of abortion, what’s the problem with laws preventing them? Are you really here to say that the problem with abortion laws is that they’ve been too effective? Otherwise, your average person is likely never to commit or be a victim of murder so we don’t need murder laws on the books, right?

      1. What I am saying is that it is easy to proclaim yourself prolife when you don’t really have to decide if an abortion is the best course of action. The number of down syndrome fetus aborted is in greater proportion than the number of people describing them selves as prochoice. So either prochoice people have a higher rate of down syndrome fetuses or some of the prolife people change their mind when they find out.

        I am not talking existential crisis, I am talking hypocrisy.

    2. Who needs an abortion? Just take the day after pill and circumvent the possible pregnancy. Also, you assume that we are like you.

      We are not.

  39. NOW DO: “Sometimes should be illegal”

    1. ENB would be traumatized by those polling results.

    2. >>“Sometimes should be illegal”

      Tuesdays and Thursdays, after noon.

      1. We don’t have equality until women can get an abortion more freely than men can get cold beer on a Sunday. *weeps in shame*

    3. It’s the rampaging elephant in the room with that headline.

      1. >>headline

        yesterday there was a “More than 24 Police Officers …” lol okay how many more?

        1. 24.8, the last one was missing a leg and was an Ada hire

  40. 80 Percent of Americans Say Abortion Should Sometimes Be Legal

    Meanwhile, Here in the comments where everyone says they hate the government it’s about 50/50. The contrarian wisdom— and I mean contrarian in light of stated poll results— is that everyone should be fine with the government strapping a women to a gurney for 9 months if she wants an abortion. After all, the bitch fucking deserved it for doing it. It’s her fault. Her body, your choice.

    1. the sentenced to death generally get a steak and a few moments at a microphone prior to termination.

    2. Self-identified libertarians are about as evenly split as the general population. If you remove the segment of market anarchists who instinctively want everything to be legal so government has nothing to enforce, then the movement might even tilt slightly pro-life. There aren’t really any uniquely libertarian arguments for or against the legality of abortion. Pro-choice libertarians favor it for much the same reasons as progressives, and pro-life libertarians oppose it for much the same reasons as conservatives.

      1. Ever heard of the Non-Aggression Principle?

        1. Deontological libertarians barking the NAP at people isn’t going to resolve any dispute concerning its application. The NAP doesn’t tell you what a person is, what aggression means, or whether self-ownership rights can ever come into conflict with each other and, if so, how they’re to be adjudicated.

          1. So, the NAP doesn’t tell me I can’t swindle foreigners out of their land or property, or commit genocide against other races. Got it.

          2. So, the NAP doesn’t tell me I can’t swindle foreigners out of their land or property, or kill strangers for pleasure or food, or commit genocide against other races. Got it. Such a wonderful philosophy I can choose whether or not applies to all the subhuman filth that isn’t me.

      2. Can also depend on how you resolve a conflict of rights. Is a woman’s right to control her own body absolute? Or does the right of a fetus to exist outweigh it? I think the answer relies on completely axiomatic assumptions about the nature of rights and therefore cannot be answered by appealing to logic or fact.

        1. the nature of rights is everybody gets the rights. fetus wins the tie.

          1. If so, that’s an axiomatic assumption on your part. I disagree, but I’m not particularly interested in arguing about it because it does all come down to assumptions on the nature of rights, morality and what constitutes a person as a moral agent.

            1. “everyone lives” more sensible than “something dies”

              >>I’m not particularly interested in arguing about it

              me neither but your post created an avenue for my opinion.

        2. But the woman did exercise control of her body when she chose to engage in behavior pregnancy is the consequence of…

    3. Thank you for providing yet another example of the billionaire-friendly “socia1ism” that has become your trademark — spending most of your energy worrying about reproductive rights while the richest people on the planet are rapidly accumulating even more wealth and M4A is as likely to pass as it was in 2017.

      #AbortionAboveAll

      PS — Try to avoid assuming birthing people are automatically “women.” Recall that many transmen and nonbinary people have uteri as well.

      1. I told a mere story last night about a friend who is dying because the hospitals wouldn’t operate because she didn’t have insurance and Brian got so upset he bet me $20k. Is that advocating for socialism enough? Boy, people seem a lot happier and content with something like the NHS.

        You don’t think access to neonatal care and abortion isn’t also an issue of class? I think I’m ok arguing that poor people should still have access to medical abortion as part of a comprehensive single payer health care system financed by a steeply progressive income tax. Marx would probably be ok with that.

        1. What does Brian calling BS on your obviously fake propaganda stories have to do with Socialism? You are a liar, and an obviously terrible one at that

        2. Then you don’t know Marx. He would probably see it as a bandage to save the capitalist system, to pacify the working class and keep their numbers manageable.

    4. And babies have no right to survive of course. Your kind does so enjoy murdering them. Especially the black ones. Eh, comrade?

  41. >>47 percent of people said that abortion is morally acceptable

    47 percent of people do not understand moral.

  42. https://twitter.com/AssignedMale/status/1402666669156278274?s=19

    People saying they wouldn’t date trans people because they have a “genital preference” are also not dating trans people who had bottom surgery. That’s not a “genital preference”, that’s just transphobia. The goal post will always move farther. [Cartoon]

    1. Someone has to explain to me how this works. Trans women want to be treated as women. But they intentionally put the “trans” in front of everything. If they are just women, same as every other woman, shouldn’t they just call themselves women and quit “othering” themselves?

      1. Apparently, there are trans incels now.

    2. Or maybe people just aren’t attracted to mutilated gentialia?

    3. The goal post will always move farther.

      LOL! “The goal post that everybody keeps saying is fixed at their preferred location at the end of the endzone and refusing to agree is on a spectrum anywhere between the goal and 50 yd. line keeps moving further away.”

    4. Yeah, a surgically sculpted hole is not a vagina. Sorry. I hope these people can find someone who is into their weird junk, but no thanks.

      1. I’m with Dave Chappelle, “You can’t build a community around that.”

      2. Don’t be sorry. There’s a lot of transphobes out there.

        You ain’t supposed to say it, tho.

        1. Yep, armed with transphobic torpedoes.

    5. Lol, theyre close to right. I am not afraid of trannies, but open wounds shaped like vaginas are pretty terrifying.

  43. Meanwhile, 45% favor a less restrictive approach, preferring that it be legal in all or most circumstances.

    That’s tricky. It’s going to be of paramount importance to find out how that 45% breaks and and exactly where. If you’re in the 45% and you think abortion should be legal in most circumstances, I’m going to be real curious about when you think it shouldn’t be.

    that’s a bit like saying, “I’m all for abolishing the death penalty but…”

    Or “I’m all for abolishing the police but…”

    Or “I’m all for open borders but…”

    Or “I’m all for #OpenInternet but…”

    1. That’s why I have a hard time taking abortion polling seriously. The questions are usually so vague and impressionistic that we never learn anything about the actual positions held.

      1. As someone who supports abortion rights, I’m in that 45%. But yes, there is a point where daddy gets REAL uncomfortable with killing the pretty much fully formed child.

        Because I’m just a wanker on the internet, I’m not sure if I can say for sure where that cutoff is. But I can sure say where it isn’t, and I can sure pick a place where I can say “that’s clearly too far”.

        1. “I know pornography when I see it.”

          1. Well, I know the difference between an unviable tissue mass and a bouncing, baby girl. Somewhere between those two points is a cutoff.

            1. If personhood is only defined by being able to survive outside a mother’s womb, 21 weeks and 5 days (the earliest premies to survive). Basically instead of trimester, cut a pregnancy in half and one one side of the line it’s fine and the other it’s a crime.

              I don’t know if that’s the right answer, but it feels like as good a place for me to draw the line as any.

              1. Ultimately, any law that draws a line is going to be somewhat arbitrary.

              2. able to survive

                I didn’t murder anyone, I just made them unable to survive outside a womb.

                Heartbeat? Check. Brain waves? Check. 8 weeks into the pregnancy, “surgically or chemotoxically removing a lump of cells” becomes distinct from “getting approval from the next of kin that we’re pulling the plug on a vegetable”.

              3. That’s a more logical line than what we have now, because it’s at least based on some sort of characteristic of the life being snuffed out.

          2. As the Babylon Bee wrote, “‘It’s just a clump of cells’, says older, larger clump of cells.”

            1. >>Somewhere between those two points is a cutoff.

              is there? same argument as whether you can count backwards to zero.

        2. For ENB the cutoff is the 43rd trimester

          1. I have brief moments when I think that allowing it through the 75th should be ok.

        3. When most people who identify as pro- choice picture abortion, they probably have in mind a non-invasive abortifacient drug like RU-486 that induces miscarriage in the first half of the first trimester, whereas someone who identifies as pro-life is more likely to envision hypertonic saline abortion that burns the fetus to death and dissolves it in utero, intracardiac abortion where potassium chloride is injected directly into the baby’s heart to kill it, or D&X abortion where the baby’s head is punctured during delivery and its brain is vacuumed out. Two people, one who adopts the pro-choice label and one who adopts the pro-life label, could have the same exact view.

          1. Thanks Number Two….I can’t get that second image out of my head.

            I have to go hug my children now.

            1. #MyBodyMyChoice

              Or something.

          2. Women who view ultrasounds are far less likely to go through with an abortion than ones who don’t. Often it’s an issue of affordability, so pro life outreach tends to focus on collecting donations to fund ultrasounds for at-risk women.

            Like other issues that tend to embody the left/right dichotemy, Pro-life corresponds to transparency and acknowledging reality. While “pro-choice” tends to correspond to sticking your fingers in your ears, going “lalala”, and doing what your base instincts want you to do, regardless of the consequences.

            1. I meant to add they are less likely to abort no matter what trimester it is

              1. Those little clumps have the audacity to grow in baby shapes.

                1. “the audacity to grow in baby shapes.”

                  Audacity? Yes.

                  Choice in the matter? Not really.

                  If there ever were an innocent victim, they would surely be it.

            2. Women who view ultrasounds are far less likely to go through with an abortion than ones who don’t.

              Citation? And how does that vary depending on states that require ultrasounds? And why should it matter in the first place?

              Often it’s an issue of affordability, so pro life outreach tends to focus on collecting donations to fund ultrasounds for at-risk women.

              I thought pro life outreach tends to focus on “crisis pregnancy” centers that feed women bullshit about abortion increasing breast cancer risk.

        4. When sentience is achieved, it’s a person.

  44. >>Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton is under investigation by the state bar association.

    the sba has very little to do.

  45. Alabama is considering using COVID-19 relief funds from the federal government to build new prisons.

    Is it time to dust off the “nothing left to cut” meme?

    1. Where else can they house those business owners that dared defy the govt?

  46. but those same 80% wanna see your vaccine ID right? Cause now it’s “your body, your choice, when we say it’s your choice” right???

    1. Pregnancy isn’t a communicable virus.

      1. I’ve transmitted it to somebody else at least 4 times I am aware of

        1. … so far. Kinda hard to get past 2 generations if it isn’t a communicable condition. As the father of 3 sons, I can confirm that my Mom, Wife, and MIL are disappointed that their specific strain isn’t/wasn’t more virulent.

        2. I’ve made transmission attempts with a number women going back decades.

      2. Neither is Covid if you aren’t infected idiot.

    2. Some penumbras are more equal than others.

  47. In other news, two wolves and a sheep discuss what’s for lunch.

  48. Satanists believe that there is no difference between good and evil.

    You applaud as murder becomes immorally acceptable.

    1. It’s good that you give us your point of view as a satatist.

  49. I’d be interested in those who told Gallup abortions are morally acceptable but should be illegal.

    1. I think that about 15% of poll respondents (completely made up number) just answer randomly or try to be funny.

    2. People don’t answer polls with logical rigor. And the order in which you ask questions, and how you word them, moves the numbers around a great deal.

      For instance, “Some 32 percent of poll respondents this year said abortion should be legal “under any circumstances,” while nearly half—48 percent—think it should be legal “under certain circumstances.””

      But if you ask them by trimester, as recently as 2018, (Did they just stop asking?) you find only 13% thinking it should be legal in the third trimester. And yet Gallup’s own polls showed about 29% that year saying “under any circumstances”.

      How did that happen? They probably asked about whether it should be legal under any circumstances first, then about trimesters afterwards, and half the people saying it should always be legal immediately changed their minds after being reminded of late term abortion.

  50. And 90% of americans thought Saddam had WMD. Most people on abortion feel it is wrong but think “well what if…” (fill in the blank, “myself, my girlfriend, my daughter…” and rationalize limited legalization is ok.

    But we are talking about right and wrong. Does anyone have the right to end the most precious thing in the universe..mind?

    1. “Does anyone have the right to end the most precious thing in the universe…”

      Depends if that “precious thing” is encapsulated in another ‘precious thing’ .. a person who shouldn’t be enslaved by ‘others’ opinions/religions about them.

      What is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ for a person should be left up to THAT person and not all the neighbors opinions or put to a [WE] vote gangs rule them.

      This country was founded on Individual Liberty and I can’t think of a more curs-id violation of liberty than others telling one how to manage their own body, their reproductive organs or family affairs.

      Even if you want to pretend it’s ‘murder’ the juice isn’t worth the squeeze until you can figure out how to separate that one pregnant person into two without ‘murdering’ anyways.

      1. Your argument is easily refuted with the use of logic and science. The prerequisite for being rational is to recognize reality as defined by logic and science. You aren’t.

        The birth of a child is the natural result of the choice to perform intercourse, just as impact with the ground is the natural result of the choice to jump off a building. They are not the result of slavery and murder.

        Liberty is not founded on killing those whose existence is inconvenient to us. All laws protecting inalienable rights tell people what they cannot do with their bodies.

        The two will inevitably be separated at birth.

        1. 1) Your science lacks the ability to “separate” before birth especially at the Roe v Wade deadline of 21-weeks.
          2) Your science doesn’t thwart the U.S. Constitution and in that Constitution the word ‘born’ is used.
          3) The logic of the situation is that Gov-Guns have NO business in “family affairs” especially when that business is of no concern to anyone else.

          1. Science confirms that life begins at conception.

            The inalienable right is to life.

            1. “…And a seed is an Apple Tree”, says science.
              That day the ‘science’ consistently violated ‘reality’ and everyone just forgot ‘science’ was originally an observation of ‘reality’. But hey; It’s Political ‘science’ so it should be expected to violate reality by now.

              1. Humans aren’t trees.

                Like I said, you’re not rational.

                1. And the game today is….. Just how ignorant can you be?

        2. The birth of a child is the natural result of the choice to perform intercourse, just as impact with the ground is the natural result of the choice to jump off a building.

          So you’re fine with allowing abortion in the case of rape? Which kind of conflicts with the idea of the innocent life you want to protect having that right to live, since it wasn’t responsible for the rape. Or do you believe, like Todd Akin, that a woman’s body has some natural way of “shutting the whole thing down” if it is “legitimate rape”?

          And an “impact” with the ground isn’t inevitable. A person could jump off a building and land on another adjacent building. Or maybe they are attached to a bungee cord or are wearing a parachute . . .

          The two will inevitably be separated at birth.

          Birth isn’t inevitable, and neither is the woman surviving until birth or surviving the process of birth. Feel free to take a 1 in 6000 chance of dying so that a fertilized egg or embryo or pre-viable fetus that you value has a chance to become a baby, but you don’t get to force anyone else to take that risk.

      2. What about siamese twins where one could survive being separated and the other couldnt?

        1. If they’re underage; Such a catch-22 situation; It’s a family matter between the twins/parents. But if the twins disagree and the two parents disagree it can go to settlement court. The biggest problem is NOSY NEIGHBORS who thinks that Siamese twin situation is any of their business — it is not.

          God gave people free-will.
          The devil demanded obedience.

          But ya know; That situation arise all the time… /s NOT!

          1. God gave people free-will.
            The devil demanded obedience.

            Well, to be fair, God gave people free-will and then gave them a list of ten things that they either couldn’t do or had to do. It’s more like he gave people free-will and demanded obedience. And really, where did the devil demand obedience? He is always, in my recollection, portrayed as tempting people into disobeying God, not as commanding anything with threats.

        2. What about siamese twins where one could survive being separated and the other couldnt?

          If you are talking about such cases where they have been born and then the option to separate them is presented, then that is a fundamentally different question than abortion.

          You have to start with the understanding that abortion is in regards to an embryo or fetus prior to viability (~21-24 weeks gestation). Titus PUllo talked about “mind” being the most precious thing in the universe, but there is no “mind” yet at that point. Our scientific understanding of consciousness is still very incomplete, with traditional, quantitative scientific methods perhaps being fundamentally unsuited to studying consciousness. But any understanding of what consciousness is precludes the degree of conscious thought that we would attribute to a individual “mind” from existing that early in human development. Awareness of the self, surroundings, and that surroundings are separate from the self certainly does not exist at that point. That this is true even at ~21-24 weeks makes it even more so at the point of the vast majority of abortions that are performed by 13 weeks. (~92%)

          The value of a developing life prior to viability is based entirely on the hopes and desires of prospective parents that want a child. A woman that does not want a child is under no moral obligation to value the life developing inside her. Carrying it to term so that it could be born and be a person is more than just a physical and emotional burden for several months, it is a risk to her life. I do not support, as a matter of morality, let alone a matter of law, forcing a woman to take that risk for something that has no mind and is not yet a person.

          1. Educate yourself and ignorance will no longer be your excuse.

            Day 1: fertilization: all human chromosomes are present; unique human life begins.

            Day 6: embryo begins implantation in the uterus.

            Day 22: heart begins to beat with the child’s own blood, often a different type than the mothers’.

            Week 3: By the end of third week the child’s backbone spinal column and nervous system are forming. The liver, kidneys and intestines begin to take shape.

            Week 4: By the end of week four the child is ten thousand times larger than the fertilized egg.

            Week 5: Eyes, legs, and hands begin to develop.

            Week 6: Brain waves are detectable; mouth and lips are present; fingernails are forming.

            Week 7: Eyelids, and toes form, nose distinct. The baby is kicking and swimming.

            Week 8: Every organ is in place, bones begin to replace cartilage, and fingerprints begin to form. By the 8th week the baby can begin to hear.

            Weeks 9 and 10: Teeth begin to form, fingernails develop. The baby can turn his head, and frown. The baby can hiccup.

            Weeks 10 and 11: The baby can “breathe” amniotic fluid and urinate. Week 11 the baby can grasp objects placed in its hand; all organ systems are functioning. The baby has a skeletal structure, nerves, and circulation.

            Week 12: The baby has all of the parts necessary to experience pain, including nerves, spinal cord, and thalamus. Vocal cords are complete. The baby can suck its thumb.

            Week 14: At this age, the heart pumps several quarts of blood through the body every day.

            Week 15: The baby has an adult’s taste buds.

            Month 4: Bone Marrow is now beginning to form. The heart is pumping 25 quarts of blood a day. By the end of month 4 the baby will be 8-10 inches in length and will weigh up to half a pound.

            Week 17: The baby can have dream (REM) sleep.

            Week 19: Babies can routinely be saved at 21 to 22 weeks after fertilization, and sometimes they can be saved even younger

            Week 20: The earliest stage at which Partial birth abortions are performed. At 20 weeks the baby recognizes its’ mothers voice.

            Months 5 and 6: The baby practices breathing by inhaling amniotic fluid into its developing lungs. The baby will grasp at the umbilical cord when it feels it. Most mothers feel an increase in movement, kicking, and hiccups from the baby. Oil and sweat glands are now functioning. The baby is now twelve inches long or more, and weighs up to one and a half pounds.

            1. Weeks 0-21 — Using all the technology known to man to this day it is *impossible* (as in ZERO change of survival) to ‘test-tube’ an actual living baby from the ‘baby’ (yes; it’s a wildly deceitful misnomer).

              Months 7,8,9 till birth…
              The ‘baby’ (deceitful misnomer you compulsively use) is STILL a **part** of a FULLY DEVELOPED PERSON.

              Perhaps next year we can pretend your ‘mind’ has legislative ‘rights’ of it’s own above and beyond you and start banning everything that disparages it’s growth like pain killers, alcohol, and a whole slew of political ‘science’ (non-reality) items. After all; a mind is the “Temple of God” thus it doesn’t really belong to the person.

              1. WTF!!! What do you mean your ‘mind’ is yours and none of governments business??? How dare you think such things.. /s

                I can’t think of anything that would be more ‘Gods’ territory than the unborn. Pretending Gov-Gods should legislate the unborn is putting Government in as Gods. Is that what your religion teaches you?

            2. Robs Constitutional Amendment Proposal:

              Congress Shall have the Power to Regulate all peoples reproduction, pregnancy and family-member count affairs.

            3. Day 1: fertilization: all human chromosomes are present; unique human life begins.

              Except for identical twins. Then that first single cell ends up as two unique human beings.

              Day 6: embryo begins implantation in the uterus.

              Sometimes it does. Sometimes it fails to implant. Sometimes it implants outside of the uterus, such as in the fallopian tube, as an ectopic pregnancy, which can be fatal to the woman if untreated. Sometimes it fails to develop even that far. (It is also called a blastocyst at this early stage, where it consists of an outer layer of cells that eventually become the placenta and an inner cell mass of embryonic stem cells that form the embryo itself. Identical twins share a placenta, so it is thought that they occur when these cells are in two separate masses instead of one). One research article from 2017 looked at all of the previous estimates critically and concluded that 10-40% was a wide, but reasonable range for the loss of embryos prior to implantation with an overall pregnancy loss rate of 40-60%.

              Day 22: heart begins to beat with the child’s own blood, often a different type than the mothers’.

              “…at six weeks of pregnancy, an ultrasound can detect “a little flutter in the area that will become the future heart of the baby,” said Dr. Saima Aftab, medical director of the Fetal Care Center at Nicklaus Children’s Hospital in Miami.”

              “Fetal heartbeat” bills popular these days are doubly misnamed. It isn’t a fetus until 8 weeks, not at the 6 week mark that they say the heartbeat can be detected, and it isn’t a heart yet.

              Week 12: The baby has all of the parts necessary to experience pain, including nerves, spinal cord, and thalamus. Vocal cords are complete. The baby can suck its thumb.

              Experiencing pain requires more than just nerves and a thalamus.

              “Fetal awareness of noxious stimuli requires functional thalamocortical connections. Thalamocortical fibers begin appearing between 23 to 30 weeks’ gestational age, while electroencephalography suggests the capacity for functional pain perception in preterm neonates probably does not exist before 29 or 30 weeks.”

              Week 17: The baby can have dream (REM) sleep.

              Articles I find say seven months for REM sleep.

              I’d have to guess that your list was copied from some pro-life website, given that it contains the errors and misunderstandings that I pointed out and looks designed to fit that narrative. More than one link and my comment gets held up indefinitely in moderation, it seems, so I didn’t link what I found. But you can copy and search Google easily enough and be almost certain to find the same articles I did if you doubt what I quoted.

              All of what you said, inaccuracies and misleading information aside, is still not showing evidence for a “mind” prior to viability in any case. And even if a fetus at some point where abortion is current legal did have some kind of pain perception or other brain activity close to consciousness, when the evidence is strongly against that possibility, that still doesn’t get around the biggest problem with the anti-abortion position.

              That problem is that preventing a woman that does not want to be pregnant from obtaining an abortion would be forcing her to risk her life for that other being. Nowhere else in law is that ever done. No person is ever legally obligated to take any significant risk to their safety for the benefit of someone else against their will, even if that other person would die without aid.

    2. Thats the CIA’s fault. As is the plandemic. They need to be dealt with.

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