Coronavirus

Vaccine Passports Will Outlast the Pandemic

The flawed documents seem destined to be part of life long after the reason for their existence is gone.

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With support from politicians, businesses, and the public, vaccine passports (formalized proof of health status) appear to be inevitable, at least for travel and for attending large events. But as competing offerings try to accommodate rival priorities and expectations, no single standard is near wide acceptance. In short, vaccine passports appear to be destined to become part of everyday life, but probably only in limited application and after the COVID-19 pandemic that spurred their development is long gone.

"A new Ipsos survey for the World Economic Forum finds that, on average, about three in four adults across 28 countries agree that COVID-19 vaccine passports should be required of travelers to enter their country and that they would be effective in making travel and large events safe," the polling firm announced at the end of April.

Gallup also found that "U.S. adults favor mandated vaccination certification for travel by airplane (57%) and to attend events with large crowds, such as concerts or sporting events (55%)."

After that, though, polling finds a steep drop in support for requiring proof of health before people are allowed to go about their lives. Specifically, majorities of Americans in Gallup's survey oppose requiring proof of vaccination for people headed to the workplace, hotel stays, or restaurants.

Proof of vaccination for work seems to be a non-starter, in particular. While "no jab, no job" may trend as a search term, few businesses are interested in antagonizing employees with a vaccination requirement. "Less than 1% of survey respondents have actually decided to implement a mandate, and only 20% say they are even considering it," Mercer found in a February survey of employers. Encouraging and incentivizing employees to get their shots has much more support than requiring them to prove they are vaccinated for COVID-19.

And if you're not going to require vaccination of employees, imposing such a condition on customers who can take their business elsewhere seems even less likely. 

But international travel, concerts, and sporting events may well be enough to make vaccine passports a regular feature for many people in the years to come. All involve moving through checkpoints that are frequently under government control or otherwise subject to relatively easy regulation.

Iceland, for example, announced in March that "all those who have been fully vaccinated against COVID-19 will be allowed to travel to Iceland without being subject to border measures, such as testing and quarantine" and also accepts proof of negative tests and of prior infection. Because there is not yet a single internationally accepted standard, Iceland's Directorate of Health specifies the information that certificates must contain, lists acceptable languages, permitted vaccines, and warns that "Border control will evaluate whether a certificate is valid."

Showing up at Customs checkpoints in hope that your vaccination passport will be accepted is bound to pose headaches for travelers and the airlines transporting them. To address that concern, the International Air Transport Association developed the Travel Pass, one of the competing standards for proof of health status. The app- and paper-based Travel Pass, which is being tested by 30 airlines, lets travelers upload proof of health, testing, prior infection, or other government requirements. Like many proposals, it promises to let users control data and present only the minimum information required.

IATA's initiative, like Iceland's requirements, illustrates certain challenges faced by vaccine passport advocates. IATA offers (and Iceland accepts) paper documents as proof of vaccination, testing, or prior infection. But digital documents are "considered superior to a paper-only vaccination certificate, which can be fraudulently obtained, easily lost and damaged, or simply difficult to read due to illegible handwriting," as the World Health Organization (WHO) pointed out in its first crack at guidance for such documentation. And WHO should know, since there's a thriving international black market in forged versions of the organization's "yellow card" certificates for travelers who need to demonstrate vaccination for yellow fever and other ailments.

Requiring digital certificates of everybody is impossible, though, unless you're going to exclude the great many people who don't have smart phones. That leaves authorities in the position of setting tighter standards for vaccine passports that put them out of reach of much of the population, or else loosening standards and accepting the reality that some documents will be bogus.

Not that digital documents are without their own flaws. It took only 11 minutes for Albert Fox Cahn of the Surveillance Technology Oversight Project to forge New York's Excelsior Pass, which was introduced as a ticket "to gain entry to major stadiums and arenas, wedding receptions, or catered and other events." The Excelsior Pass is based on IBM's Digital Health Pass technology, which means that its vulnerabilities might be shared by other implementations.

Israel's Green Pass is reportedly similarly easy to counterfeit. It runs off a central database, has poorly implemented encryption, and constitutes a "security disaster" according to Haaretz

To be honest, even the most secure vaccine passport can only be as reliable as the information it has been given. If somebody compromises the sources of information about vaccinations or identity, the passport will blithely testify that it's all true. Ultimately, no matter how many standards are established and how many requirements legislated, authorities have to place some trust in the people presenting the documents—and accept a degree of flaws, errors, and deliberate evasion.

Such considerations are part of why, so far, there's been more talk of adopting vaccine passports than actual establishment of standards. The Biden administration has deliberately sworn off any interest in linking itself to a requirement that could turn into yet another battle. The European Union is creeping towards such a requirement, though it's coy about what it will look like or how it will be administered. Only Britain seems ready to take the plunge and use its existing National Health Service app as proof of vaccination (though the BBC emphasizes that it's not clear if anybody outside the country will accept it).

But the EU certificate is supposed to be unveiled this month, and New York's and Israel's passports remain in place despite their flaws. IATA's Travel Pass continues its trials, and other initiatives are going through their paces even as people get vaccinated or gain immunity from prior infection and COVID-19 diminishes as a threat. Ultimately, a public demanding assurances about the health of foreign travelers and about the safety of crowded events will get such assurances, whether or not they're meaningful. 

Given current trends, COVID-19 may have largely faded by the time vaccine passports are widely accepted, but the documents themselves will undoubtedly remain. It will be interesting to see just what uses authorities find for them after the reason for their existence is forgotten.

NEXT: Brickbat: It's Official

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145 responses to “Vaccine Passports Will Outlast the Pandemic

  1. I read this article! I hope you will continue to have such articles to share with everyone! thank you!

  2. It will be interesting to see just what uses authorities find for them after the reason for their existence is forgotten.

    Bingo. The idea that these things will serve no purpose is ridiculous. Their purpose is gathering information about people and tracking them, like ear tags for livestock. Whatever their ostensible purpose is doesn’t matter, it’s about control.

    1. Tinfoil on your head must give you great reception.

      1. ^perfect reason for the ‘mute’ button.

      2. “Tinfoil on your head must give you great reception.”

        Stay on your knees, steaming pile of lefty shit.

      3. Seeing the response to your remark – how it incentivizes muting you for some… I thought about how you could have rephrased it to neutralize that toxic part which cries out for quality control censorship…

        “Your remark makes you look like a conspiracy theorist to me. No reasonable person could think the government would contradict or overstep their stated aims or have unspoken goals here.”

        This would be a statement without the snark – but states plainly what you are implying – but then, you don’t want to take ownership of such a claim as is reflected in the do-over I created for you – do you?

        Why not just own the clear position that the government abuse of newly instituted tracking measures is beyond the pale to consider… and certainly couldn’t have been a consideration of anyone involved with coming up with said policy.

    2. They already serve no purpose other than to track and control people. Everyone who wants one can go get a vax. Dont give them another inch.

      1. Unfortunately, they already have an inch by requiring some vaccinations in schools. After covid passports, they will want proof that people dont have socially unacceptable illnesses to work with kids, etc. It’s a real slippery slope toward a world without medical privacy where patients will regularly hide symptoms and illnesses from their own physicians on rational basises.

    3. They already have that information. Vaccines and positive tests go into a database.

      1. Sure, but the database isn’t and really can’t be tied to the passport in any meaningful way. Even if it were, the odds of it being as effective as a 4473 form and background check preventing the Texas Church shooter or Hunter Biden from purchasing a firearm are pretty good.

        1. May as well just wear an ‘I voted!’ sticker.

    4. It took almost one hundred years before the government got rid of the strategic helium reserve.

      Once the vaccine passport gets started, it will never go away. There will be new variants of Covid and other diseases that the government will ‘need’ to protect us from.

    5. @JERRYSKIDS – Don’t listen to that “tin foil hat” comment. I was military intelligence, and your comment is spot on. Keep sharing your thoughts with us.

  3. Given current trends, COVID-19 may have largely faded by the time vaccine passports are widely accepted, but the documents themselves will undoubtedly remain.

    No, they won’t. They’re not even going to get started.

    When deaths and hospitalizations drop to de minimus, which looks like maybe another month or two in the U.S., the notion of passports will be chucked by every business that’s dying to reopen and sees passports as just so much annoying paperwork and expense.

    It’s just amazing what people are willing to forecast in the middle of a pandemic. We’ll never go to movie theaters again. People will wear masks forever. Everyone will have proof of medical history tattooed on their forehead.

    It didn’t happen after 1918, which was far, FAR worse. It won’t happen now.

    1. Hey, someone sane. It’s about time. Vaccine passports will last just as long as necessary so long as covid is a problem. Once it isn’t, you’re right, no one will want to deal with them as there won’t be any real point.

      1. “Vaccine passports will last just as long as necessary”
        Lol. This is a troll account.

        1. “Vaccine passports will last just as long as necessary”

          So the duration of vaccine passports will be 0 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes, and 0 seconds?

        2. “Vaccine passports will last just as long as necessary”
          “Two weeks to flatten the curve!”
          “If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor!”

        3. It’s one of Jeff’s socks.

        4. “…This is a troll account.”

          No reason to assume any intelligent purpose; abysmal stupidity on his part will suffice.

      2. Sanity is unfortunately in short supply around here.

        1. was better before you showed up.

      3. Vaccine passports will last just as long as necessary so long as covid is a problem.

        COVID is endemic and has been since the dawn of civilization, or did you mean just COVID-19?

    2. By sane people who actually care about efficiency or effectiveness or competitiveness, yes. For bureaucrats and “risk managers”, not so much. I could easily see these becoming part of permanent security theater at airports.

      1. It’s not like we still take off our shoes after 20 years,

        1. What’s the grand total of the number of actual terrorists that the TSA has caught, again?

          I haven’t checked in a while, but the last time I did it was 0. In 20 years. 0 terrorists.

          1. Does being caught by air marshals while trying to ignite/detonate in flight count?

            1. As most people think of it, no, because “TSA” are the screeners at the security checkpoints. By definition, the people caught by the air marshals successfully got through the TSA screening to be on the flight with whatever they were attempting to ignite or detonate.

              But yes, technically the air marshals are also part of the TSA – maybe the only non-theater part. That said, a google search on “TSA air marshal arrests” returned almost all hits about air marshals being arrested for various misconduct and few to none about them actually arresting bad people.

              1. As most people think of it, no, because “TSA” are the screeners at the security checkpoints. By definition, the people caught by the air marshals successfully got through the TSA screening to be on the flight with whatever they were attempting to ignite or detonate.

                But yes, technically the air marshals are also part of the TSA – maybe the only non-theater part

                Half-joking. The Air Marshals existed well before TSA.

      2. BINGO!!
        Businesses will do a cost/benefit analysis and decide that a vaccine passport isn’t worth the time or effort.
        TSA, on the other hand, whose job description is “look like we are doing something important and effective” will grab onto this with both hands.

    3. Society is comprised of sheep. Global governments will not let COVID-19 go to waste. Our rights will be restricted. The writing has been on the wall since the outbreak. Corporate media is shilling for masks even for those that are vaccinated.

      1. Oh, the irony of calling other people sheep while repeating the talking points fed to you by Tucker Carlson (who got vaccinated, BTW, while exhorting his viewers not to get a vaccine).

        1. @CHIPPER MORNING WOOD – One correction to your spiteful comment is that Tucker Carlson is advocating on behalf of medical consent and cognitive liberty (libertarian principles) when he says that there should be no government or corporate mandates forcing citizens or workers in the economy to subject themselves to a vaccine with zero long-term studies. Medical consent (consent, period, for that matter) is so important to the function of a free society. So, when Tucker is advocating against vaccine mandates in government, in schools, and in companies, he is in fact taking a libertarian position. Whether you like someone’s personality or not, sometimes it is best in politics to focus specifically on what principles they espouse and what policies they endorse. In this particular case, Tucker is endorsing a libertarian policy where the government, schools, and companies should not be permitted (both ethically and legally) in a free society to enforce people to get vaccinated without their true and unabridged consent.

    4. Companies are already requiring vac passports to protect themselves from suits so it won’t be long before companies will petition the government to come up with a standard vac passport. it is coming and people will also want it since the ones they have may not be accepted everywhere until there is standardization. BTW Newsom already said he will leave it up to business so it is starting

      1. Honestly, I used to think that the Christian idea of a BEAST system was pathologically absurd. But, I digress, they were right. Here it comes, exactly as the Christians were saying as early as the 1970s: people will not be able purchase commodities or foodstuffs without being registered in a government tracking system. The passport, the vaccination CDC cards, the patents for vaccine nanotech embedded within a skin tattoo, the denial of travel, etc. Based on the current trends of both governmental and corporate alliance (fascism) in the U.S. and other Western countires that support the passport technology, this passport agenda will soon morph into denial of food rations unless one has the “passport” or some equivilent “smart technology.”

    5. IDK about other places but, around here, dedicated gun shops cut out the mask shenanigans months almost a year ago. Doesn’t mean someone won’t throw their money away trying to sue a gun shop because people didn’t show the staff their vaccine passport but, I’m pretty certain about the ‘throwing their money away’ part.

    6. i’ve been going to the movie theater all through the pandemic, with the exception of periods of sever lockdown, and i live in a tyrannical blue state. sometime we drive to a neighboring red state and went to the movie theater.

      1. Yeah. I live in IL. You have to show an FOID just to handle ammunition. Statists would probably love to make it so you have to provide a vaccine passport at the door to any gun or outdoor/sporting goods store or be refused entry, but it would almost certainly be doomed to failure even here.

  4. One of my coworkers was wondering why our company wasn’t mandating that everyone have the vaccine, and I had to point out to him. That if a vaccine became a requirement of the job, then the company would be liable for any bad reaction to the vaccine an employee had at any time in the future.

    Just take a gander at all the asbestos lawsuit adds on tv. This stuff can come back to bite a company ten or twenty years later.

    1. It would not make them liable. Many places require flu shots for example. They must have a policy for exemptions. Schools also have mandatory vaccines.

      With asbestos the lawsuit is because the dangers were known in the 1920s and were either covered up or ignored.

      It is still under an EUA. Once they are fully approved I do not think there will be liability issues.

    2. I have seen that the military is taking the same approach. They are planning to make it mandatory as soon as it is fully approved.

    3. “One of my coworkers was wondering why our company wasn’t mandating that everyone have the vaccine, and I had to point out to him. That if a vaccine became a requirement of the job, then the company would be liable for any bad reaction to the vaccine an employee had at any time in the future.”

      Is that

      (1) a Liberty, Regent, or Ave Maria law degree talking

      (2) something you think you remember from a discount homeschooling outline; or

      (3) something you heard on Hannity, Carlson, Ingraham, or Alex Jones last night?

      1. And the bigot replies once again. Still shit posting on Volokh and getting ban hammered?

  5. As a Koch / Reason libertarian, I believe the most fundamental human freedom is the right of anyone on the planet (even people with contagious diseases!) to immigrate to the US at any time and for any reason. I can therefore support vaccine passports that restrict the movement of people already in this country — but not those that restrict the movement of people into this country.

    #OpenBorders
    #(EspeciallyDuringAPandemic)

  6. As long as all companies requiring a peek at a “vaccine passport” are fully HIPPA compliant, and fully liable for any and all future health issues that could possibly result from this unapproved, EMERGENCY USE ONLY vaccine, then fine, just fine.

    1. HIPPA applies to healthcare providers. It does not prevent you from sharing your information with others. A doctors note saying it is OK to go back to work for example.

      1. The information on or for a ‘vaccine passport’ would be considered non-standard health information.

        Anyone who collects that health information and then transmits it in a standardized electronic form would be considered a covered entity and would likely fall under HIPPA.

        That would include any record of having ‘viewed’ or ‘verified’ vaccination status, even if the actual details were not recorded.

        1. Of course, none of that means shit once you leave the country.

          1. For international travel this all becomes not much more than a revived sort of visa process, and just one more bit of information added to a very long list of data that gets collected every time you go through passport control.

        2. re: “Anyone who collects…”

          No. Just no. HIPAA is a very specific law with a precise definition of who is a Covered Entity. Merely collecting vaccine information does not make you a Covered Entity. Nor does HIPAA status depend in any way on “standardized electronic form”. HIPAA information is protected regardless of form or media – if you are a Covered Entity (or Business Associate).

          That said, it is definitely non-public personally-identifiable information that would fall under a variety of other privacy laws. So don’t leave it lying around unprotected.

          1. ” if you are a Covered Entity (or Business Associate).”

            Or a healthcare clearinghouse. Which includes ‘community health information systems.’

        3. Anyone who collects that health information and then transmits it in a standardized electronic form would be considered a covered entity and would likely fall under HIPPA.

          There’s also meta-information and pretty standard non-disclosure information baked in as well. You local clinic can’t phone up your employer or even a family member and say, “This is the local HIV testing center, have Echospinner call us back, his results are in.” without exposing themselves. Your doctor can’t include your patient information in studies without your consent without liability.

          Even if you agree that vaccine passports make sense and that employers should be able to use them, you can’t just say ‘consent!’ or ‘third party!’ and pretend it doesn’t run counter to wide swaths of HIPPA or the ACA’s position on pre-existing conditions in intent if not letter. There may be a case to be made that (e.g.) you couldn’t get a license to work in the State of CA, but between illegal immigration and occupational licensing, even Reason’s left-wing nutjob stance *should* be intuitive.

      2. But you also don’t have to share it with others..

  7. The income tax will only be 1% for the top earners
    Social security won’t become a default national id
    The patriot act will only be used to spy on foreign nationals
    We have heard these statements all before and they have all been lies

    1. No, it was just misspoken or you just misunderstood .

    2. I wasn’t able to keep the doctor / health care plan I liked, either.

  8. Thanks for sharing/writing information, really impressive, will Bookmark for read again in future, thanks

  9. ASIA FOR THE ASIANS, AFRICA FOR THE AFRICANS, WHITE COUNTRIES FOR EVERYBODY!

    The words “immigration”, “tolerance” and “assimilation” are being used to PROMOTE a program of genocide against White children.

    According to International Law, open borders, FORCED integration, and assimilation is GENOCIDE.

    Except they don’t call it GENOCIDE when it’s done to White children.

    Then they call it “multiculturalism”

    STOP WHITE GENOCIDE!

    Multiculturalism means chasing down the last White person.

    1. Immediately muted.

      1. I think this muting thing is a great idea. Once the trolls know they are being ignored they will go away.

        1. My feed is so much more pleasant now, and I’ve only muted two people.

          1. Yeah, same here. All it took is muting a couple of usernames.

        2. Or, keep changing their name.

          Some however, will remain immediately obvious.

      2. Yep. So far I’ve only muted this dick, who just repeats his racist garbage and KillAllRednecks who is just here to be a dick.

        1. This will be my first mute of a non-spambot. I haven’t even muted KAR or Misek yet.

          1. I dont think misek is all that bad when he isnt bitching about the holocaust.

            1. The Israelis who guarded Eichmann before his trial said that he was a very reasonable friendly guy. When he wasn’t killing Jews.

            2. He’s still got that whole ‘lying should be illegal’ thing going.

              1. It is not just the Holocaust denial. He has posted outright antisemitism about Jews in general. He is no different than the racist above.

    2. “ASIA FOR THE ASIANS, AFRICA FOR THE AFRICANS, WHITE COUNTRIES FOR EVERYBODY!”

      No place for bigoted shits; muted.

    3. Your stupid is showing. And muted.

  10. Showing up at Customs checkpoints in hope that your vaccination passport will be accepted is bound to pose headaches for travelers and the airlines transporting them.

    Well, headache *is* a well-known side effect of the vaccine.

  11. But this is a great opportunity for a new business. A small briefcase with many slots inside to store, sort, and carry your many vaccine passports, so you can quickly find the one that will allow you into that particular venue or store, or permit you to fly that particular airline, or enter that particular country.

  12. I’ve got no plans to travel by plane any time soon, but near as I can see there is literally no one out there asking for my vaccine “passport”. Literally no one. We should of course push back against anyone demand that they should exist, but panicking over something that doesn’t exist is stupid.

    1. As one who hasn’t been in an airport since they suspended the constitution there, it doesn’t affect me directly, but it is still a bad idea. How about instead of a “vaccine passport”, we only accept concealed carry permits? Those guys have been thoroughly vetted.

      1. we only accept concealed carry permits? Those guys have been thoroughly vetted.

        Get ready to have vaccinations baked into the definition of ‘well-regulated militia’.

    2. We’ve postponed two trips this year – skiing in Whistler and a beach/dive trip to Roatan. Canada is 100% insane so I don’t know where to begin with that one, and the testing requirements in Roatan were going to add at least one entire extra travel day, plus about $60 per person, so we said ‘screw it all.’

    3. Gotta get out the daily 2 minutes hate, even when your life is so cushy that you have to make things up to hate on.

    4. the cruise line industry is asking so there is your start. soon want to ride a train get your papers out. BTW with no gas we will have to take the train.

      1. I wouldn’t get on a cruise ship if you paid me. Those things are disease factories already.

        1. Good to know you won’t be there to spoil my trip.

    5. I don’t see why vaccine passports are so terrible if they are demanded by private businesses. It’s no different from “no shoes, no shirt, no service.” Do you guys protest against a business requiring customers to wear shoes?

      1. Except you can put on shoes a lot more easily than you can get vaccinated. Requiring shirts and shoes also doesn’t require a person to inject a foreign substance into their body. It is rather different. And I’m also pretty sure that the shirt and shoes requirements are part of the health code in most if not all states.
        Private businesses can do what they want but I would hope they would consider carefully the implications of requiring all customers to undergo a particular medical treatment.

      2. I resent the implication that there is something unsightly about my body.

      3. “…Do you guys protest against a business requiring customers to wear shoes?”

        ‘Gee, there’s already limitations, so why do you care about more of them?’
        Gee, Chipper, try thinking before posting.

      4. If a business asks me to wear a mask, then I will wear a mask. For exactly the reasons you state. But if they ask me to product a government ID then fuck them. I don’t need a driver’s license to shop, I don’t need a passport, I don’t need a green card, why should I need a government certificate?

        Now if some asshole wants to put a sign on his storefront saying “no CDC certificate no service”, that’s his right. But it’s also my right to peacefully protest it.

      5. Shoes don’t have a risk of side effects for the wearer. I’m surprised you needed someone to explain that to you.

      6. Shoes and shirts have been through long term studies for possible side effects.
        No current vaccine is fully approved a safe by anyone, because they have not been studied for long term side effects. The vaccines are only approved for EMERGENCY use.

    6. We should of course push back against anyone demand that they should exist, but panicking over something that doesn’t exist is stupid.

      Experts warn fake vaccination cards could prolong pandemic, FBI categorizes them as crime

      In a matter of clicks anyone could have access to a fake CDC vaccine card. This is what 45 attorney generals across the nation are highly concerned about.

      “We know people have been selling fake vaccine cards,” said North Carolina Attorney General Josh Stein.

      Stein says this act “will make people less safe and make the COVID-19 pandemic last longer.”

      In a letter, Attorney General Stein is giving the CEO’s of Twitter, Ebay and Shopify until Friday to respond.

      “Take immediate action to prevent your platforms from being used as a vehicle to commit these fraudulent and deceptive acts,” Stein said.

      The FBI urging the public to not post photos of your vaccine card to social media websites pointing to “personal information could be stolen to commit fraud.”

      In a statement the FBI categorized the unauthorized use of an official government agency’s seal (such as HHS or the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)) as a crime. Citing this as an act that could be “punishable under Title 18 United States Code, Section 1017, and other applicable laws,” and added “do not buy fake vaccine cards, do not make your own vaccine cards, and do not fill-in blank vaccination record cards with false information.”

      Since there’s not one mention of actual infection or the legal prevention thereof, it seems to be pretty clearly and overtly chilling free speech to me.

  13. Wouldn’t care if they did, wouldn’t carry one if asked. Anyone that paranoid delusional to think it’s needed should not be running things. That people keep voting for maskholes and democrats is on them.

  14. These have been around for many many decades for travel to the Third World. I’ve still got a copy of that WHO yellow booklet with all the ink stamps from childhood vaccines as well as the periodic yellow fever, cholera, etc stuff. Kept it with my passport and every clinic/doctor who understood travel/tropical medicine also understood how to stamp that booklet when they gave vaccines.

    Does it apply to the US? Who cares at this point. It will apply forever to the Third World because vaccines will never make it there in significant quantities. Which means it will apply to international travel.

    1. Native Americans wish they required Vaccines before entry

    2. These have been around for many many decades for travel to the Third World.

      Not exactly. You need a passport to get into Ethiopia but, once there, you don’t need it to travel around Ethiopia or do business there. Businesses can’t/don’t/won’t refuse to sell or be forced to refuse to sell to you because you don’t have one.

      Rather obviously, the ‘passport’ moniker is being co-opted. This isn’t a passport, it’s a civilian license or state/federal ID.

      1. From the WHO – Ethiopia – You need a yellow fever vaccination certificate for anyone over 9 months of age arriving from a yellow fever endemic country or anyone who has spent more than 12 hours transiting through an airport in a yellow fever endemic country. Whether officials get antsy about inspecting that vaccination certificate really closely depends on whether the disease is currently ramping up there.

        This is actually far less than used to be required. When I was a kid, the diseases that all countries were concerned about were smallpox, yellow fever, and cholera. With other countries concerned about all the diseases where childhood vaccines were just becoming prevalent. Call it whatever the fuck you want. But because there were about a dozen diseases/vaccinations that 150+ countries had different interests in to see the stamps – a passport is exactly what it really is.

        I doubt you’ve ever been outside the US to a country where in fact you DO have to show both your passport and that vaccination booklet/certificate to the person at customs and you won’t get into the country if you don’t show it. And where cheating/forgery is self-policing because there are no fucking hospitals where you will be admitted if you do get sick.

        1. I doubt you passed 5th grade reading comprehesion because that’s a lot of words that in no way refute what I said.

          1. It functions EXACTLY like a passport you twit.

        2. @JFREE – While you seem to mean well and wish to engage in a counterargument, you did forget or omit one key element to your counterargument’s analysis: smallpox, yellow fever, and cholera are are statistically more deadly than any coronavirus, including sars-cov-2.

          So, there is a balancing test that must be conducted: does the chance of death due to COVID-19 support authoritarian policies claiming to protect the public health? Does government mandates like passports, compulsive vaccination programs, mandated mask wearing OUTWEIGH individual rights concerning medical consent, cognitive liberty, and bodily autonomy? These are the hard questions I don’t think you have asked yourself yet. The thought experiment should be run long-term and you should assume that if we give the government an inch they will take a mile. Sometimes government mandates win in the balancing test game (such as criminal statutes, civil contract laws, etc.), but when a coronavirus that is not deadly for 99% of Planet Earth’s population results in a massive power grab by corporate interests and governmental overreach, I think the alarms should be ringing in your ears. Despite any fears you may have of enduring a coronavirus cold for a few weeks, that should not permit the government to make sweeping policy changes that violates the 1st Amendment (which is composed of foundational liberty principles required for a free society). My opinion is that there is a dark agenda at play here: big industry conglomerates and international banking interests are influencing government actors to draft more authoritarian policies disguised under the banner of “public health,” while also lobbying for corporate welfare payouts. Take the thought experiment all the way; it ends in despotism.

          1. you did forget or omit one key element to your counterargument’s analysis: smallpox, yellow fever, and cholera are are statistically more deadly than any coronavirus, including sars-cov-2.

            I understand that and agree. But the relevant fact is that these vaccine passports already exist. So the issue re covid is about a marginal disease/vaccine in an existing passport – not the creation of all this from scratch. In the same way that we have now eliminated the smallpox disease/vaccine from that passport. Things change over time.

            Understanding that this passport long precedes covid is important. Because all the high-tech hooha that is accompanying the discussion of this stuff in First World is – pure cronyism and corruption. The true vaccine passport has to work in refugee camps and among the totally destitute and isolated medical clinics. that’s not smartphone solution. Therefore not some bs continuing surveillance risk. therefore anyone advocating that hi-tech approach is not really talking about a vaccine passport but a surveillance system.

            1. As an aside the parameters of this are the same parameters as might exist with a cryptocurrency with a candy bar phone and blockchain verification. So it doesn’t really need paper – but nor does it need a central database.

              Except that ‘cryptocurrency’ advocates truly don’t give a shit about any of this.

  15. I’ve always said the only reason we don’t have “walking licenses” and “walking plates” is because walking existed before totalitarianism.

    The China Virus will now give governments the opportunity to close that loophole.

  16. There has been an uptick in Seychelles where they have a 66% vaccination rate. The officials are saying the cases are almost all unvaccinated. They also used the Chinese sinovac which has lower efficiency than the others.

    1. Very few people in the Seychelles were infected by Covid, which has conferred immunity to nearly half of all Americans (per CDC data indicating 10.1% of Americans have been infected, and CDC’s estimate that 4.6 times more American have been infected than have tested positive).

      It also appears that some/many cases of Covid in the Seychelles have occurred among visitors and vacationers from abroad.

      1. CDC’s estimate of 4.6x is way outdated. That was reasonable when PCR testing was not being done and was still in catch-up mode. By May or so of last year, that estimate of non-tested-but-still-likely-positive would have statistically regressed to roughly the % of total infected who are asymptomatic plus a bit for lack-of-access-to-doctor-but-still-symptomatic. So by the CDC method – 2.25 to 2.75 or so.

        Continuing to pound out of date info is – well – lying. Or at best lazy. Even if it is the CDC that is both lazy and lying – and trying to cram those calcs through a seasonal flu model (where there is no PCR testing data and the disease is not as serious and there is a vaccine which those who know they are really vulnerable tend to take).

        1. CDC’s estimate of 4.6x is way outdated. That was reasonable when PCR testing was not being done and was still in catch-up mode. By May or so of last year, that estimate of non-tested-but-still-likely-positive would have statistically regressed to roughly the % of total infected who are asymptomatic plus a bit for lack-of-access-to-doctor-but-still-symptomatic. So by the CDC method – 2.25 to 2.75 or so.

          Continuing to pound out of date info is – well – lying. Or at best lazy.

          So, having failed to provide evidence to the contrary is it yourself or the CDC who’s lazy and/or lying?

    2. Thanks. Just read a couple articles about that. Could become a useful source of valid info re post-vaccination transmittal. Article I read said that 1/3 of the new cases are among the vaccinated but so far none of the serious ones.

      1. I will be keeping tabs on that and have been on Israel. Israel has about the same vaccination rate. They have been using Pfizer and some Moderna. They are down to around 45 new cases per day with almost no serious cases.

        Both countries have big tourism industry so opening that up is a goal.

        1. That’s similar to my interest – opening up large social gatherings like music festivals and conventions and such.

    3. >>The officials are saying the cases are almost all unvaccinated.

      ooooh the officials … to the bunkers!

  17. “A new Ipsos survey for the World Economic Forum finds that, on average, about three in four adults across 28 countries agree that COVID-19 vaccine passports should be required of travelers to enter their country and that they would be effective in making travel and large events safe,” the polling firm announced at the end of April.

    This isn’t a surprising outcome. Most people are not committed libertarians, so if you lock down Western Civilization for over a year and then whisper to them that “we can get back to normal if you just… you know, comply” people are going to line up to comply.

    1. If the government told them they all needed to herd into trains to be shipped to a secure facility for protection from the virus, they would hop on.

      1. “Leave your bags here, they will be delivered to you”.

      2. “Unvaccinated boxcar over there, citizen; off to the labor camps with you!”

  18. Libertarians and other freedom loving Americans can and should simply boycott ALL businesses that require potential customers to prove they received a vaccine.

    Another option is making/using counterfeit vaccination cards listing the date, type of vaccine, and a code number (that nobody but drug manufacturer or vaccine administrator would understand, or have access to records).

    1. Another option is making/using counterfeit vaccination cards listing the date, type of vaccine, and a code number (that nobody but drug manufacturer or vaccine administrator would understand, or have access to records).

      Yup. If a private business wants to have vaccine passports or membership cards, that’s one thing. When it ties to a government database, even auspiciously, it should be opposed and/or undermined.

      1. I don’t know how you would counterfeit the government. They do track doses and lot numbers but I do not think the providers give them more information than that. In any case if they did collect that information it would come directly from the provider.

        You could fool a business with a fake card. I don’t know if it would try to pass one off to the government of Singapore though.

        1. I don’t know how you would counterfeit the government.

          The narrowness of your thinking and depths of your ignorance, feigned or genuine, doesn’t surprise me.

    2. A problem that does not exist.

      Business is not going to do that. I have heard of bars offering a free beer and one pot shop giving a free joint with vaccine card though.

      1. A problem that does not exist.

        Right, until it’s in place you don’t have standing and after it’s in place it will be moot. How could people be so stupid as to oppose government intervention a priori? They should wait until it comes to the point of being decided, one way or the other, at the point of a gun like civilized people.

        The problem isn’t business handing out free beers to members who show a card. The problem is businesses refusing to hire anyone who doesn’t have a document with the official CDC seal at the top.

        1. Why shouldn’t they be able to hire who they want? You can’t work without an official drivers license and social security card. You have to register with the IRS on an official document. In some cases you have to have an background check and fingerprints. Let alone drug and nicotine testing.

          A business has every right to hire who they want.

          I do not think retail establishments will require any vaccine cards although they have the right to do so.

          1. Why shouldn’t they be able to hire who they want?

            Take it up with the EEOC.

            1. Libertarians for the EEOC? Anyway they don’t cover stuff like this. They do things like race, religion, disability, sex, and those things.

              Hospitals and other employers have been requiring TB tests and flu shots for decades. Several places I have worked required a letter from the doctor stating I was in good health and did not have mental health or substance abuse issues.

              That is all perfectly legal.

              1. You can’t work without an official drivers license and social security card. You have to register with the IRS on an official document. In some cases you have to have an background check and fingerprints. Let alone drug and nicotine testing.

                Libertarians for the EEOC?

                Hurp-a-durp-de hur… Libertarians for driver’s licenses, social security, IRS, top secret clearance, and mandatory drug and nicotine testing?

                Fucking retard.

                1. I am not for any of those things. I am pointing out that they already exist.

                  It seems your argument is that an employer who required proof of vaccination would be discriminating under the EEOC. That is not true.

                  1. I am not for any of those things. I am pointing out that they already exist.

                    You don’t say!

                    It seems your argument is that an employer who required proof of vaccination would be discriminating under the EEOC. That is not true.

                    So, you’re not in favor of driver’s licenses, social security, the IRS, top secret clearance, mandatory drug and nicotine testing, *or* EEOC hiring standards but, mysteriously, government-issued vaccination ‘passports’ somehow ring your bell as A-OK?

                2. So far as I care the employer can just hire you on a handshake and pay you in cash and it happens all the time. Or they can require any number of things and from a libertarian point of view I can’t see any objection to that.

                  1. You can’t work without an official drivers license and social security card.

                    the employer can just hire you on a handshake and pay you in cash and it happens all the time.

                    Hurpity, durpity, doo!

                    1. Because that is the case in the vast majority of employment situations. Much of that is because of legal requirements on the employer when you do a standard paycheck. It is personally fine with me if you want to hire and work under the table.

                      The point still is as an employer you can hire with or without other conditions. As an employee you are free to stay or walk away. That is basic free market.

            2. There is some of this happening already. People who work in other peoples houses like contractors I have been working with make sure that their workers are vaccinated and tell you so because it is reassuring to the customer.

              What if you wanted to reopen your strip club? Wouldn’t you want all of your workers to be vaccinated for their safety and the customer? How are the ladies going to make any money if they can’t get close?

              1. Doctor’s notes. Employers don’t/can’t check doctor’s licenses. There is no central prescription or doctor’s note database, existing laws against fraud and assigning liability are/were sufficient, etc. etc.

                And the contractors I’ve been working with were working in peoples’ homes, sans mask even, well before the vaccines were completed. Dozens of contractors and dozens of interactions with homeowners who were just fine with them not wearing masks. Not one question about whether the employees were vaccinated. Not even the sales people lead off with anything that whiffs of “It’s OK, I’m vaccinated.” The homeowner opens the door without a mask on and you decide right then and there whether you want the job or not. The idea that the vaccine passport will in any way dissolve the hesitancy is pro-bureaucratic idiocy. Pure pro-Karen virtue signalling.

                1. I don’t understand. Patient Medical records are one thing. They can be accessed by legal means as in a malpractice lawsuit or certain other legal actions.

                  Doctors licenses are public records. Just go to the website of your local state medical board and look them up.

                  I am telling you my experience with contractors. If yours have been different well OK. So as I said some of this is happening. It doesn’t make it universal. I never said that the passport would change that or was even a good idea. We are talking about proof of vaccination as it relates to employment.

                  My point is some employers are already doing that and I can’t see any argument against it.

                  1. And my point is, they aren’t checking the vaccine ‘passport’ to any degree (and probably less) than they are checking membership cards. I don’t have a problem with that.

                    Employers asking for virtually any proof that when you say you’re 18, you aren’t actually 14 or when you say you were born here, you are, I don’t have a problem with. It’s when State AGs are calling for what is effectively free speech to be oppressed while Governors are effectively deputizing businesses in a manner analogous to Title IX in order to crack down on the unvaccinated that it’s a problem. And the notion that we should wait until Jackie Coakley or Mattress Girl has effectively shamed someone off a college campus before doing anything about it. Especially because the AGs and Governors overtly espouse a much larger and wider scope than simply college campuses. Nobody, but nobody, in any position of power is talking about this just being another stamp on your passport before going to India. They’re overtly saying it should be its own passport and enforced in all manner of places where passports not only aren’t enforced, but have no business being enforced.

    3. I will not shop where vaccine is required.

  19. Oh duh, just make the vaccine passports a requirement to vote. Problem solved.

  20. My concern is not having to carry a proof of vaccination in my wallet, it is that all the stories I see on this seem to point to them forcing you to install some app on a smart phone and carry that phone with you at all times. What they are talking about is back dooring in what the ChiComs have now, forcing you to carry a cell phone turned on at all times with an application that tracks you. The rest of this is just a distraction, the ability to track you should be the worry. After seeing what they did after Jan 6th and how they accessed the information of everyone who was in DC and carrying an active cell phone we the least of our worries would be having a vaccine passport.

    1. @Rockstevo – Bingo! Why people refuse (yes, refuse) to see this is beyond my comprehension. I know fear is a powerful crippler of critical thinking, but goodness sakes, it is overt authoritarianism at this point. It shouldn’t take much for the liberals to figure this one out, but they are so entrenched in a fear perspective right now. Conservatives and libertarians see this clearly; if we can just wake up the liberals to this mess by getting them to see it as a civil rights issue, then we could turn the cultural tide to our advantage.

  21. News 2030 – All charges against Ofc. Daniel Pantaleo Jr. in the choking death of Eric Garner Jr. were dismissed with prejudice. The officer, department, police union, and city are firm in their assertion that Pantaleo Jr.’s actions were justified as Garner was allegedly walking around in public without a valid vaccination passport.

  22. The problem is that this proposal would have privacy issues and involve the government. It would be an app that is not needed. We already have cards. You could just take a picture of your card and show it.

    So far nobody is doing this. There is talk in other countries as well but it is a solution to a problem that does not exist.

    1. You could just take a picture of your card and show it.

      No, you can’t. See my link above. The FBI is actively discouraging this as it makes fraud/forgery trivial. They’re pursuing or allegedly will pursue people who do this because the CDC’s emblem is government property.

      Hurp-a-durp-de-doo… Libertarians for government owned and forcibly-protected IP? Durr… what’s the problem? We should wait until the FBI arrests someone for taking a photo of their passport and posting it online so we have standing. Then when Facebook takes it down, the issue will be moot. Liberty achieved… hurr… durr…

      1. You don’t have to post it online. That is dumb anyway. That is what they are discouraging. You could just store it in your phone. That button that says photos. It is a bit of a risk but if it is more convenient some people might do that.

        Besides I still don’t believe you will need it except for international travel.

        1. Besides I still don’t believe you will need it except for international travel.

          Then all this talk of it being tied to a database of serialized doses, employers checking for forgery, and questions about how strippers will make a living without them is just contributing to the (panic about) creeping state bureaucracy.

          1. No you are misunderstanding. You don’t need an app for that. You already have a card. If the employer is requiring proof of vaccination you just show them the card on employment and that is that.

            The point of the strippers is that is probably one type of job where it would make sense for an employer to do that.

            I have no idea what forgery has to do with it.

            1. No you are misunderstanding.

              Mr. “You can’t get a job without a license but people get hired with just a handshake all the time.” thinks I’m confused.

              1. Both are true.

                Some jobs require things like background checks and more vetting. Others can get done on an informal basis.

                For the average wage earner employee you gotta get through some hoops.

                This is not new to you nor is it a contradiction on my part.

                So we reduced the argument.

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