Sex Trafficking

Is Matt Gaetz a Child Sex Trafficker? Here's What the Law Actually Says.

Not all sexual misdeeds are sex trafficking.

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On Tuesday night, The New York Times alleged that Rep. Matt Gaetz (R–Fla.) is "under investigation over possible sex trafficking" of a minor. Gaetz has denied the allegations and spun some accusations of his own, involving a former federal prosecutor attempting to extort his family.

According to "three people briefed on the matter," Gaetz "is being investigated by the Justice Department over whether he had a sexual relationship with a 17-year-old and paid for her to travel with him," the Times reported. "Investigators are examining whether Mr. Gaetz violated federal sex trafficking laws, the people said."

The Times doesn't go into any more specifics about Gaetz's alleged relationship or how the activity described constitutes sex trafficking. But on Fox News last night, Gaetz denied traveling with a 17-year-old ("people can look at my travel records and see that that is verifiably not the case," he told Tucker Carlson) or having a relationship with a 17-year-old ("that's totally false," Gaetz said).

Gaetz went on to say that he was being extorted by people demanding $25 million from his dad "in exchange for making horrible sex trafficking allegations against me go away."

For more than a decade, sex trafficking has occupied a central place in modern crime panic and fears for child safety. To many, it conjures images of abduction, smuggling across borders, confinement, and physical violence. As a legal matter, it needn't actually involve any of these things. No matter which version we go by, however, it's hard to see how the conduct alleged in this case—while morally suspect and quite possibly a violation of some criminal laws—qualifies.

The federal prohibition on sex trafficking (18 U.S. Code § 1591) specifically relates to commercial sex—a.k.a. prostitution—involving force, fraud, or coercion and/or people under age 18. Passed in 2000 and expanded every few years since, it implicates anyone who "recruits, entices, harbors, transports, provides, obtains, advertises, maintains, patronizes, or solicits by any means a person" knowing that force, threats of force, fraud, or coercion "will be used to cause the person to engage in a commercial sex act, or that the person has not attained the age of 18 years and will be caused to engage in a commercial sex act." Commercial sex act is defined under federal law as "any sex act, on account of which anything of value is given to or received by any person."

Some have argued that if Gaetz paid for someone he was having sex with to travel with him, this constitutes commercial sex. But the key thing when it comes to "commercial sex acts"—whether we're talking about activity between consenting adults or activity that would qualify as criminal sex trafficking—is that any payment must be in exchange for sex. The payment needn't be a direct monetary exchange, but it must be quid pro quo.

If two adults go on a trip together, one of them pays for the plane tickets and hotel room, and the pair winds up having sex, that is not considered commercial sex. Nor is it commercial sex if someone buys a date dinner or some sort of gift and later that night the pair hooks up. And, obviously, if an adult pays for a 17-year-old to travel with them and no sexual activity takes place, that is not commercial sex, either.

But what about the activity alleged here: an adult paying for a 17-year-old to travel with him and also engaging in a sexual relationship with her?

That certainly could run afoul of a number of criminal laws. However, prosecution for child sex trafficking seems unlikely unless it could be proved that paying for the girl's travel was explicitly conditioned on her engaging in sexual activity, or that money or something else of value was specifically promised in return for these sex acts.

Saying that what Gaetz is accused of isn't child sex trafficking doesn't mean it's perfectly fine behavior for a member of Congress or that it shouldn't be condemned. But our modern tendency to describe any and all morally suspect and/or criminalized sexual activity as sex trafficking leads us not to moral righteousness but moral panic.

It's how we get masses of people believing insane conspiracy theories like those spread by QAnon, in which the highest levels of government and business are supposedly controlled by child sex traffickers who harvest kids' blood. It's how we get oodles of nonsensical Facebook memes about traffickers trailing people around supermarkets. It's how we end up with dangerous laws like the 2018 Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act (FOSTA), which criminalizes online speech surrounding consensual sex and makes it more difficult for workers in commercial sex sectors to stay safe. And it's how we end up with ever more police, FBI, and ICE stings targeting all forms of sex work, which ruin lives and drive up arrests and incarceration without actually protecting anyone.

None of this is to say that a man who is in his thirties "dating" a teenager is something to be condoned. Most people can probably agree that it is, at the very least, creepy. Many people would agree that it crosses a moral line. And depending on where the relationship took place, it could also violate a number of criminal laws.

In D.C., the age of sexual consent is 16 (meaning a sexual relationship between an adult man and a 17-year-old girl would be legal). But the age of sexual consent in many states (including Florida) is age 18, so an adult having sex with a 17-year-old in these places would be guilty of statutory rape (a state-level crime). And if state, country, or territorial lines were crossed, prosecution under a federal law known as the Mann Act is also possible.

The Mann Act of 1910—which is distinct from the federal prohibition on sex trafficking passed this century—prohibits bringing anyone, including adults, across state lines "with intent that such individual engage in prostitution, or in any sexual activity for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense."

This law—which once banned helping someone cross state lines for any "debauchery" or "immoral purposes"—has a dark history of being used against interracial couples, LGBTQ people, immigrants, immodest women, and others whom authorities considered de facto suspect. It also became a catchall tool to justify federal police surveillance and action. Today, it is still used in cases where no force, fraud, coercion, or minors are involved and can be levied against adult sex workers who travel in pairs or aid each other with travel plans.

In addition to crossing borders for prostitution purposes, the Mann Act also bans an array of other acts, some involving minors and some not. One section bans the transportation of minors across state lines "with intent that the individual engage in prostitution, or in any sexual activity for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense." If the Times report on Gaetz's relationship and activities is true, it's this part that seems like the most applicable federal statute (provided the age of consent in any of the areas traveled to was above 17). It's perhaps the only applicable federal statute unless the feds want to argue that paying for the travel constitutes engaging in a commercial sex act.

The New York Times does not say what statutes Gaetz is allegedly suspected of violating, but it does report that it "is part of a broader investigation into a political ally of his, a local official in Florida named Joel Greenberg, who was indicted last summer on an array of charges."

Where this investigation—and Gaetz's counterclaims—will ultimately lead is anyone's guess. But for now, it seems like prime example of how sex trafficking allegations have become a catchall to capture all sorts of perceived sexual misconduct.

NEXT: ‘We Have Followed Proper Channels and They’re Not Working’: Dispatch From Minneapolis

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  1. The New York Times does not say what statutes Gaetz is allegedly suspected of violating…

    So in other words, a pure smear job. Sounds about right for the Old Grey Hag.

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      1. Is Matt Gaetz a Child Sex Trafficker Here’s What the Law Actually Says.But what about the activity alleged here: an adult paying for a 17-year-old to travel with him and also engaging in a sexual relationship with here……………MORE DETAIL.

        1. Sex trafficking shouldn’t be a crime at all. And they should legalize adult men having sex contact with children. There should be no age of consent laws.

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  2. The article headline and text call it an “inquiry” while the caption to a photo says “investigation ”

    So, exactly what is it?

    1. Oh, it’s a hit job.

      So of course a resident journolister will run with it.

      1. Thomas here, with his grand sum of ZERO knowledge on the matter, finds it a hit job.

        Top notch work. Every moron would be proud.

        1. Compared to your contribution? All you ever do is shit post and you appear to be uninformed on most issues.

          Fly away little bird.

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          1. Don’t bother the pile of lefty shit with facts.

    2. Inquiry means someone called the DoJ about something. Like say a blackmailer would do seeking money. Investigstion would imply actual evidence of said event and active investigation ongoing.

      1. Jesse, remember Sydney Powell making a total fool of you all? Still waiting on your apology for calling everyone who doubted her “retards”.

        Don’t let that happen again, man. At least wait for the evidence to come out before you start stanning for a possible rapist of minors.

        1. can you cite my post where I quoted Sidney Powell in regards to the election Stolen Valor?

          Can you also cite where you lived up to the bet you made stolen valor?

          1. Nevermind, you’re lying about both. I forgot who I was dealing with.

            1. Here’s one where I caught you lying about procedural vs meritorious dismissal of Trump’s election cases. You chose to hide.

              https://reason.com/2021/01/06/a-dem-sweep-in-georgia-election-could-pave-way-for-trillions-in-new-federal-spending/#comment-8676500

              1. Except I showed over 13 cases where courts found in his favor and have linked it multiple times idiot. You chose cases that were largely dismissed on procedural grounds. Man you are terrible at this.

                1. What?! Jesse, this is nuts.

                  YOU claimed that the cases were dismissed on procedure. I showed you proof that this was not true. I had showed you this proof multiple times before this comment. You were spreading misinformation knowingly, because it benefits your fantasy world view.

                  1. The very comment I linked I am showing you a case dismissed on MERIT!

                  2. No. I posted you were wrong. As usual. Here you go retard =)

                    To begin with our list shows that there have been seventy-five (75) lawsuits filed that are relevant to the 2020 Presidential election. (Note 1: we are counting an original filing, plus additional appeals as one single case. Note 2: other lawsuits are possibly undiscovered.)

                    The results to date are:

                    a) Eight cases have been withdrawn or consolidated. (These are not wins or losses to either side.)

                    b) Twenty-five cases have been stopped from proceeding (dismissed) due to legal technicalities (standing, timing, jurisdiction, etc.). These have nothing to do with the merits of the case and should also not be considered wins or losses for either side. That more than a third of the lawsuits were not allowed to proceed to an evidentiary hearing is more of an indictment that many judges appear to be afraid of opening this pandora’s box. Considering the importance of election integrity to our country, it’s a shame for them to hide behind subjective legal technicalities. How is that in the interest of the citizens in our country?

                    https://redstate.com/stu-in-sd/2021/02/03/2020-presidential-election-lawsuits-the-facts-n320913

                    Lol. Youre a fucking idiot.

              1. Statement is true, and has nothing to do with Sydney Powel. So you are lying??

                1. Fun to watch a snowflake melt.

                  1. From your jail cell window that must be a blast.

          2. Oh, not a problem Jesse. Check out this whole thread, where you defend the Kraken conspiracy over 20 times and call the people criticizing it all kinds of names.

            https://reason.com/2020/11/29/a-trump-judicial-appointees-blistering-opinion-is-a-reality-check-for-supporters-who-still-think-biden-stole-the-election/#comment-8609497

            1. Explicit comments please. The fact is that you made a claim above that you can not support.

              1. People, go read them yourself. This is hilarious.

                The comment I explicitly linked shows Jesse calling Sidney Powell’s own website “lefty” because it disagreed with some of his own conspiracy bullshit. He then links to another election conspiracy crackpot opinion piece.

                1. Here’s the weaseling out email Stolen Valor sent me when I accepted his challenge:

                  This is the first email I have received at this account. Congrats. No, I will not be taking a call with you, for the following reasons:

                  1. You are an irrelevant Canadian
                  2. You have no idea how to judge the evidence I would present, being that you are not American, not military, and not reasonable.
                  3. You have never demonstrated an ability to engage in good faith and honesty, or demonstrated even basic knowledge of libertarianism.

                  Get SoldierMedic, Red Rocks, or John on board, and I will let you conference into the call.

                  Thanks,
                  DOL

                  Imagine stealing valor and then saying the people challenging you on it are the ones acting in bad faith.

                  1. I don’t see how this is “weaseling out” when (a) he didn’t issue the challenge to you; (b) you are a Canadian, and so have no inside knowledge of the American arm forces.

                    1. So is DEL, AKA Chemjeff/Cytotoxic.

                      So fuck off.

                    2. You don’t seem to understand NORAD and Canada US integrated command.

                  2. Yup. Just gotta hate those irrelevant Canadians. This guy is a real winner, but he’s neglecting to recognize the thousand of Canadians who served in the Military (both Canadian and US) who are also decent libertarians. So not only does he steal valor he denies it to others who deserve it. What a champ!

          3. Here is one where you claim some dumb, half-baked and misunderstood statistical anomaly, which DebunkingConspiracies takes the time out of his day to show you, step by step mathematically why you are incorrect. You fail to thank him for his effort to educate you. Lol. What a prick.

            https://reason.com/2020/11/29/a-trump-judicial-appointees-blistering-opinion-is-a-reality-check-for-supporters-who-still-think-biden-stole-the-election/#comment-8609489

            1. Except he didn’t do so and completely misunderstood the issue at hand. Notice he not once actually responded to the statistical analysis I provided. In fact, his attacks against it showed a complete misunderstanding of what the analysis was said, as I state in the thread.

              So again. You are lying.

              And again, Nothing about the claim you made.

              Silly Stolen Valor.

              1. Jesse. You are full on delusional. You never even responded, let alone “provided statistical analysis”. You don’t understand stats. You regurgitated dumb shit from other dummies, like “brenford’s law” (sic).

                1. It was hilarious that not only did he just go around touting statical math he didn’t understand, but he couldn’t even get the name of the law correct.

                  Funnier, JesseAz tried by get back at me by repeating the claim that I don’t know the formula for water. Turns out they are referencing a bunch of comments Tulpa made, spoofing my name.

                  1. Here’s the email Stolen Valor sent me when I accepted his challenge:

                    This is the first email I have received at this account. Congrats. No, I will not be taking a call with you, for the following reasons:

                    1. You are an irrelevant Canadian
                    2. You have no idea how to judge the evidence I would present, being that you are not American, not military, and not reasonable.
                    3. You have never demonstrated an ability to engage in good faith and honesty, or demonstrated even basic knowledge of libertarianism.

                    Get SoldierMedic, Red Rocks, or John on board, and I will let you conference into the call.

                    Thanks,
                    DOL

                    Imagine stealing valor and then saying the people challenging you on it are the ones acting in bad faith. This is hilarious.

                    1. He didn’t issue the challenge to you. You are not even an American, let alone an American veteran.

                    2. Dee, you bitch!

                  2. Hey, TDS-addled shit! What’s the chemical notation for water?

                    1. Ask Tulpa.

                    2. You’re not even human WK.

                2. I responded to him multiple times you retarded fuck. He kept arguing aggregate counts when the anysis i was posting was the individual drops of ballots.

                  All you do is fucking lie.

                  1. Uh huh. Brenfords Law.

                    1. Dee, you bitch!

          4. I never said you “quoted” Sidney Powell.

            Very clever attempt to move the goal post before I even start kicking though. Lol.

            1. Still waiting on your apology for calling everyone who doubted her “retards”.

              Is what you said. Now once again. Citation please Stolen valor.

              Way to prove you were lying btw. LOL.

              1. You fell for the hoax, badly. You aren’t fooling anyone.

              2. I just provided a bunch of cites. The one thread has you with 20+ comments, all deriding people who criticized the Kraken tale and defending the Big Lie.

                I have more still.

                Here’s one where you even reference Venezuela. Zombie Chavez attacks! Where have I heard that one before? Oh right, The Kraken.

                https://reason.com/2020/12/03/trumps-46-minute-rant-about-election-fraud-crystallizes-the-most-dangerous-aspects-of-his-personality/#comment-8617464

                1. The things Jesse mentions in the post you linked don’t have anything to do with dominion. It lists all the irregularities that deserve further investigation.

                  This is why you liberals are so dangerous. Because you’re so delusional you literally need to make things up just to satisfy your addiction to virtue signaling. You’re posts are 90% petty vindictiveness and 10% lies. Why do you even come here, clearly Jesse raises your blood pressure and ruins your day. Just go away, you’re worthless opinions and pandering matter to no one here.

                2. That’s not even what that comment says. It compares the state of American elections negatively to the notoriously corrupt Venezuelan ones. If you are going to lie, please don’t waste everyone elses time by posting garbage links.

                  1. Wow, what a coincidence that both Jesse and Sidney have the same penchant for citing Venezuela in reference to the 2020 election.

                    No way that Jesse is repeating a Kraken talking point. No sirree.

                    1. Here’s the frightened email Stolen Valor sent me when I accepted his challenge:

                      This is the first email I have received at this account. Congrats. No, I will not be taking a call with you, for the following reasons:

                      1. You are an irrelevant Canadian
                      2. You have no idea how to judge the evidence I would present, being that you are not American, not military, and not reasonable.
                      3. You have never demonstrated an ability to engage in good faith and honesty, or demonstrated even basic knowledge of libertarianism.

                      Get SoldierMedic, Red Rocks, or John on board, and I will let you conference into the call.

                      Thanks,
                      DOL

                      Imagine stealing valor and then saying the people challenging you on it are the ones acting in bad faith.
                      Notice how he’s also employed White Knights patented “Canadians aren’t allowed” excuse.

                    2. I mean, I guess. But Venezuela has notorious bad election integrity. Maduro’s flogging of the system is one of the worst examples outside of Africa in recent memory.

                    3. So I didn’t quote Sydney like you said I did. Thanks for saying you lied.

                    4. Mother’s, which branch of the United States military did you serve in, again?

                    5. None. What the fuck’s that got to do with exposing DOL for lying here and stolen valor?

                3. No, you didn’t.

                  Lol. The analysis is posted was never refuted you retarded fuck.

  3. Trump associates are child sex pervs, and that’s why the Democrats should bail out the states, pass gun control, and implement the Green New Deal.

    That’s how “logic” works in the minds of progressives. Don’t let facts get in the way of the narrative.

    1. How about this:

      Trump associates are child sex pervs (your assertion), and Team Blue has terrible ideas, therefore, don’t support either team.

      1. I’m sure the disingenuousness of quoting Ken’s assumed suppositions as fact will convince people you’re right.

        1. Right, I get it. Only Ken is allowed to use Ken’s assumptions.

          1. Except what you’re calling “Ken’s assumptions” are just plain old “chemjeff rhetorical tricks”, and Ken hasn’t actually been doing that.

            1. Normally, I’d say it’s hard to detect sarcasm without sarcasm font, but ChemJeff’s reading comprehension level is embarrassing under normal circumstances, too.

              Meanwhile, he didn’t only fail to realize that I was kidding. He’s actually emulating the stupid “logic” I was ridiculing. I make fun of that stupid reasoning, and he shows up to emulate it?

              What an ignoramus ChemJeff is!

              1. He failed to recognize that Ken, who is notoriously lacking a sense of humor, was kidding. That’s rich.

                1. You seem to be missing the point that ChemJeff failed to differentiate between a comically ridiculous argument and a persuasive argument–regardless of whether I have no sense of humor.

                2. Fuck off, samefagging sockpuppet.

                3. “He failed to recognize that Ken, who is notoriously lacking a sense of humor, was kidding. That’s rich.”

                  This from a TDS-addled shit waiting for someone to prove the innocence of the protesters in the stroke death of a cop who died THE SAME MONTH as the protest!

        2. Jeff is trying to convince everyone he has no team despite only ever attacking the right.

          1. You don’t realize it, because you don’t do logic that well, but you just gave an argument showing that you have no reason to believe chemjeff is a lefty.

            1. Except everything chemleft has ever posted.

        3. What the heck are you babbling about? Ken has argued many times that we all must support Republicans, even a cretin like Trump, because Democrats are so much worse.

          1. So?

          2. He’s right, and Trump was the best POTUS we’ve had some Silent Cal.
            I realize that TDS-addled assholes like you find that hard to believe, but make the world a better place: fuck off and die.

      2. Look up Jeff.

        That just went right over your head lmao.

        This is how we know you’re actually a moron. We aren’t just being mean to you. You really are as stupid as we tell you.

        1. This is the thing where the CACLLs, especially R Mac, try to gaslight anyone who argues with them into thinking they missed the point of the conversation.

          They don’t get that you got the point, and the point was dumb and lacking any actual humor.

          1. The White Knight
            October.22.2020 at 3:18 pm

            It means conservative and conservative-leaning libertarian, and I coined it.
            Is there a law in Canada that ordinary people aren’t allowed to coin acronyms. Here in the godamn USA we have freedom of speech.
            .

          2. There was no gasslighting needed. If anything Jeff just gaslit himself because he has no wit, sarcasm detector, or common sense.

    2. Shh! Don’t say anything bad about Republicans! They are fighting against the Evil Democrats. You don’t want to undermine the fight against socialism, do you?

      1. Lol, what the hell?

      2. No team right jeff?

        1. If he’s trying to make progressives look like idiots, he’s doing a great job.

          1. +10

      3. “Republicans and democrats are both bad and must be treated as if they’re on equal footing, even though the latter control the economy and the media and subject everyone else to their ridiculous narrative and standards while absolving themselves of it”

        Chemjeff

        There is a scale, perspective and scope to everything in life. The republicans did not subject the nation to a year long assault on society that created a environment of lawlessness that led to some uptick in violence on Asians. They’re love big spending and statism, but the kind of world envisioned by the current American left is on a whole different level.

        BTW, I’m Asian. If a black urban choked and beat me on the street for no reason, my first thought won’t be “Well, the republicans also stormed the capitol that one time too”. It’s a total non sequitor.

        1. You’re trying to persuade someone who doesn’t care whether he’s wrong or right and who probably couldn’t tell the difference between them even if he cared.

  4. It was like it was just yesterday reason was arguing children should be freely mutilated by doctors for gender dysphoria if adults and teens agreed.

    1. And there’s the Watabout. And now the cultists’ case is complete.

      Nothing if not predictable.

      1. When people point out rank hypocrisy, DOL brings out his trusty “whatabout” shield to try and deflect further criticiam.

        1. I’m just wondering why he didn’t live up to his bet yet.

          1. I have. Over and over and over. You have failed to accept the bet. Even your little gang of mean girls disappears when I start giving contact info and payment details.

            This is the most audacious cowardice I have ever seen.

          2. And just in case:

            deoppressoliber42069@gmail.com

            Bet is open to Jesse, and two other dudes who claim they were also GB’s. I’m not entertaining a bunch of unemployed nuts who won’t be able to verify anything anyway. I’ll allow soldiermedic, John, or Red Rocks to be neutral 3rd party observers or mediators if money is put up. I’m open to any amount.

            Gauntlet is down, Jesse. You have failed to pick it up going on years now. Have you no honor?

            1. You have to send me your name silly. Your email is something you obviously created. You were supplied an email and you never sent your real name or a way to link you to the service.

              Odd you are ignoring this.

              You are acting just like KAR does in other threads. SO WEIRD.

              1. You are meant to use the email to communicate with me so we can set up a video call. I’ve gone over this; it’s very simple.

                I’m not gonna just drop my name on a board where several people regularly send me death threats. I have things to protect, unlike many of you (apparently).

                C’mon Jesse. Just drop the act. You are afraid to face me, even over a skype call, and you know you are full of shit.

                1. You look like a jealous and vindictive clown whose butt hurt on the internet. It’s a greeeeeat look. Multiple people here have called you out on your stolen Valor bullshit. So you can leave, or continue to embarrass yourself.

                  I don’t think anyone here really cares what you think either way lol.

                  1. No, no one has called me out. I have provided the means in which to do so, but everyone cowers. They sling slander from a position of voluntary ignorance, then disappear when given the chance.

                    Prior to republicans destroying their last shreds of honor with Trump, this used to be known as “abject cowardice”.

                    Mother’s Lament is the only person to use the email, and I have not offered the bet to him, being that he is a Canadian who will not be able to vet my evidence.

                    So why, why, why won’t Jesse take my many offers to expose me, if I am a liar? It seems obvious to me that Jesse knows he is full of shit, and is doing everything he can to prevent that from being confirmed.

                    1. Speaking of audacious cowardice:

                      Here’s the cringy email Stolen Valor sent me when I accepted his challenge:

                      This is the first email I have received at this account. Congrats. No, I will not be taking a call with you, for the following reasons:

                      1. You are an irrelevant Canadian
                      2. You have no idea how to judge the evidence I would present, being that you are not American, not military, and not reasonable.
                      3. You have never demonstrated an ability to engage in good faith and honesty, or demonstrated even basic knowledge of libertarianism.

                      Get SoldierMedic, Red Rocks, or John on board, and I will let you conference into the call.

                      Thanks,
                      DOL

                      Imagine stealing valor and then saying the people challenging you on it are the ones acting in bad faith.

                    2. I don’t care about any of that. I’m just saying you look like a petty child doing a piss poor job of cyber bullying people who don’t care what you think and have proven you a worthless liar several times.

                      But continue to embarrass yourself by all means.

                2. What are you waiting for, Jesse?

                  1. Jesse’s right, but regardless, I just emailed Stolen Valor and am ready for all that proof that he’s a Special Green Beret Ops Seal.

                    1. Mother did email me. Props to him.

                      Unfortunately, Mother has no idea how to vet an american service record. Nor do I trust him to not doxx me instantly, were I to let too much info slip. All downside, no upside.

                      Still waiting on Jesse, the original slanderer.

                    2. Why would I dox you when you now have my real name and email?

                      Unlike you, I’m not a fifty-center hiding behind an assumed identity.

                    3. Because you have nothing to lose, most likely.

                      I do. And still, I have refrained from spreading your name here, if what I have is indeed your real name. Your subsequent behavior gives me little reason to change my initial suspicion that you would doxx me, given the chance.

            2. What do you expect us to do with your email? Are you cruising for dick pics? Drop a team number, your team position and dates. Any specialty school can also help confirm your status. I will be the first to admit that you were an 18series if you just drop that information. Personally, I think that you were a support officer, no offense.

              1992-1994, 18B ODA 041
              1994 to 1998, 18B, ODA 085
              1998 -2001, 18B, Troop 2, ODA 036.
              2001-2002 SWC, 18B, SFUWO instructor.
              2003- 2007 18Z, ODA 085.
              See, pretty easy.
              I still have a 085 tattoo with the proper team emblem from that era. Would you like a photo? I’ll try to keep my dick out of the photo but you know how team guys are, right, team guy?

              1. I just emailed him.
                I’ll be sure to ask for any of that.

                1. Ask him to send his dd214 with a postit note stuck on it with your name. He can even cover up his name and ssn. Just so we can see his MOS. And ERB would work too.

                  I usually just lurk but I HATE stolen valor assholes. Used to see them crusing the citadel in colorado springs looking to get discounts. Gross.

              2. You are ok with your real life identity being tied to screen name here. I get death threats pretty regularly here, and have expressed opinions which could harm my business or family.

                email me, dude. let’s talk. This can be quick and easy. All you have to do is report back to the comments here that I am what I am.

                1. Email sent. Your life identity cannot be disrupted by providing team numbers, your MOS, and dates. What would someone do with that information, pretend to be a special forces soldier?
                  I will vouch for you if you have proof. I have my doubts because I have never met anyone with your political views while I was in group. Perhaps I lived a sheltered team life over the 16 years. but when I was there no operator ever supported the views that you do. Trust me, I would have remembered because it would have been a dog pile every time that person spoke up. Especially under Clinton. Supporting the Clintons would harm your career. I saw it happen.
                  I have always had political views that were center. Even that was unpopular when I was there.

                  1. I have responded. Please do vouch.

                    As for my views, you may be letting the cultists’ caricature bias you. My views practically track the mainstream, so if you have never met a GB who has views like mine, then maybe people just don’t like talking politics around you. I have had several team mates who were actual democrats, so your experience must differ from mine.

                    1. I also served later than you. On teams from 2007 to 2015.

      2. LOL. Whatabout, the cries of idiots who refuse to have a discussion.

      3. Misspelled “hypocrisy”, jeff.

    2. Cite?

    3. I thought yesterday Reason was arguing that doctors had a right to repair children who were mutilated by nature. If you caught a disease that made you body morph into the wrong shape you’d want that fixed. You wouldn’t want to wait years and years if it happened when you were a kid. You certainly wouldn’t want people to take the diseases side and say that your disease-mutilated body was natural and you need to accept it.

      I don’t see how those facts change if the disease is an illness you are born with instead of an illness you catch.

  5. According to “three people briefed on the matter,” Gaetz “is being investigated by the Justice Department over whether he had a sexual relationship with a 17-year-old and paid for her to travel with him,……………MORE DETAIL.

  6. masses of people believing insane conspiracy theories like those spread by QAnon, in which the highest levels of government and business are supposedly controlled by child sex traffickers who harvest kids’ blood.

    The Trump Cult actually believes this shit.

    1. Because Jeffrey Epstien was a right-wing conspiracy.

    2. Nope. A few idiots believe it. The same kind of people that believed the bizarre accusations against Brett Kavanaugh.

      Not sure why you would think that. There isn’t a single person here who supports Trump that buys into it. Although I’m sure there are a few sexual predators here and there (the Bidens, Bill Clinton, you, etc.). But no grand grand child rape blood drinking conspiracy.

  7. What is it about Florida that attracts the GOP perverts?

    Gaetz, Trump, Mark Foley, the Falwell preacher that likes to watch pool boys fuck his wife, Fat Rush Limbaugh (Praise Be Unto Him), and Skeletor.

    1. Because the Democratic party has never let powerful perverts hold office. JFK, Johnson, Biden and Clinton’s assaults were all lies.

      1. Figured you would be here you skeezy perv.

    2. But, Andrew Gillium isn’t a Republican. He is a staunch Democrat. He only goes both ways outside of politics.

  8. Not saying I think it is OK but if every 30 something year old man who had sex with a teenager was charged the courts would not be able to do much else. Kinda like pot laws, they are basically ignored in places where it is illegal. Just as an aside my understanding is grown men having sex with teens is much more common in minority communities than straight white males.

    Really hard to see this as anything but a smear job from what I know so far.

    1. “Really hard to see this as anything but a smear job from what I know so far.”

      So enforcing laws on the books is a smear job? It’s funny how selectively you guys use that “Party of law and order” title.

      1. Enforcing what books? The NYT writing a smear job is enforcing books?

        Nobody has come forward, no investigation has been announced.

        You really are just a paid shill, huh?

        1. Of course he is. He’s a valor thief too.

      2. It’s odd that neither you or ENB know about or mention the part of the story where gaetz claims he and specifically his father have worn fbi wires to record the calls of the alleged extorter in the justice department.

        But leftists never do want all the facts. They only want the ones they like.

        1. Gaetz has produced written communications from the former DOJ lawyer offering to make problems go away if money is paid to free a prisoner in Iran. Funny how NYT was not aware of that.

  9. It’s all just a debunked conspiracy theory. Probably disinformation from the Russians.

  10. Former Tax collector Joel Greenburg in Seminole County Florida was best buds with Rep. Gaetz.

    A federal judge today agreed to re-schedule the trial of former Seminole County Tax Collector Joel Greenberg from March to mid-June and estimated it could last as long as three weeks.

    Maddow reveals that among other things, Greenburg was caught for using his tax collector badge to pull over a woman for speeding and impersonating a police officer.

    Later he was caught trying to stalk his republican primary opponent, even making a fake twitter account in his opponent’s name, and making posts about being a ‘proud segregationist’ to smear him.

    When police arrived at his house, they found that he had been stealing people’s i.d.s from his office when people applied for new driver’s licenses. Then, he changed the licenses to have his photo, so he could travel undercover, which he did so he could traffic minors…. Sound familiar?

    More:

    The probe of Gaetz reportedly stemmed from the investigation of Greenberg, who faces a slew of charges including sex trafficking of a child. He is currently slated to stand trial in June.

    The Times report noted that many details of the Gaetz probe remain unclear, including how the congressman allegedly met the girl. The encounters allegedly occurred about two years ago and the investigation began in the final months of the Trump administration under then-Attorney General William P. Barr, the report said.

    Greenburg, I’d imagine, will have to sing like a canary to get some kind of reduced sentence for the multiple felonies not limited to impersonating an officer, stealing identities, using cryptocurrency for illegal purposes, transporting minors, and of course sex trafficking….

    Greenberg resigned as tax collector in June, after he was arrested at his home by federal agents. He faces 14 charges, including allegations that he stalked a political opponent, illegally used a state database to create fake IDs and sex trafficked a minor.

    And oops! and EWWWW!

    Federal prosecutors charge that Greenberg used his access as an elected official to a confidential state database to look up information about a girl between the ages of 14 and 17 with whom he was engaged in a “sugar daddy” relationship.

    Greenberg also is charged with producing “a false identification document and to facilitate his efforts to engage in commercial sex acts,” according to federal indictments filed with the U.S. Attorney’s office in August.

    Several former employees told the Orlando Sentinel that Greenberg often mentioned how he and Gaetz were close friends, and that the congressman would often visit him at his Lake Mary home.

    https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2021/3/30/2023691/-Rachel-Maddow-reveals-Florida-official-indicted-for-sex-trafficking-implicates-Matt-Gaetz

    1. Shh! You are not allowed to say mean things about Republicans around here. Because they are fighting against Evil Democrats. Anything bad you say about Republicans, even if it’s true, just undermines the fight against socialism!

      1. This is unironically Ken’s total philosophy at the moment. All of his comments are basically different twists on this.

        1. Why are you replying to your other sock? Everyone knows they’re both you. Just like we know you’re a valor thief.

          1. You “know” both of those things. Just like you “know” that Trump really won the election, corona will just go away like a dream last spring, and that Sidney Powell and Rudy Giulianni are beacons of truth.

            1. I know I’m significantly more intelligent than and idiot, such as yourself. I also know how to do research on my own and engage in critical thinking. As opposed to be,icing what the prog hive mind commands of its drones, such as yourself.

              I also earned what valor I have, and don’t need to steal it. The way you do.

              1. uh huh.

                Mar Thrust Valor Theif

                1. Nope. I’m the real deal. And I don’t claim to be special forces, because I wasn’t.

                2. Poat one of your ERBs on imgur, you can even blur out your SSN and name. Everyone has a few of those lying around.

                  1. I’ll show Talcum my ERB. No way in hell I’m hosting that shit on the internet, blurred out ssn or no.

                    1. I mean, I’m looking at mine now, you can just post the Duty Title and DMOS columns. There’s really no PII on there and it would prove your point right?

                    2. Each SF career is fairly unique, even within and among SF dudes. My DD214 or ERB would still be able to identify me. If you are a veteran and down to talk, email me. I’ll show a 214, photos, awards, my plaques, my serial numbered Yarborough knife, my beret, my class A uniform, a news story I’m named in, etc. on a video call.

                      What I don’t want to do is post something that can tie my name and this account together for all eternity.

                    3. Here is a little somethin’ somethin’

                      https://imgur.com/a/yqYxIJJ

                    4. mk, here I’ll send you an email.

              2. Yeah, idk I emailed him and he seems pretty legit, that image he posted, I did a reverse image search and it came back clean. He’s an asshole, but I think he’s an honest one. Talcum would know better though cuz he was little army too.

        2. “This is unironically Ken’s total philosophy at the moment. All of his comments are basically different twists on this.”

          Incidentally, the Democratic Party and the U.S. government are now one in the same, and their philosophy, so much as they have one, is all but entirely hostile to both libertarianism and capitalism. Meanwhile, the only way to dethrone them, that can be reasonably expected, is for the Republicans to beat them in the 2022 midterms. Supporting the Republicans between now and November of 2022 may be the most pragmatic libertarian thing we can do. If you believe otherwise, you’re probably wrong. After all, supporting the Republicans’ attempt to divide government power doesn’t require anyone to stop arguing for libertarian and capitalist causes.

          Oh, and one of the things I have been harping on a lot lately is that the progressive trolls around here seem to have a really hard time understanding what they read–for some all too obvious reasons. Your comment here would seem to add further support to that hypothesis.

      2. LOL,
        Quoting a Daily Kos myth-making circle jerk.

        How about a Brietbart comment section next.

        Fucking disingenuous clowns.

        1. WK defended Kos the other day. Sorry, I mean Sqrsly.

          1. Oh, boy. Another patented JesseAz inaccurate recap.

            1. What the hell, you totally did you fucking weasel.

      3. Totally no side Jeffrey. Totes.

      4. Not really. However, I’m so used to lies being told about politicians that I can’t believe anything on just the word of the media.

        1. Yeah, people who believe what they’re told are gullible, and there isn’t anything sophisticated or smart about being gullible.

          1. P.S. That may be the biggest difference between readers over at Daily Kos and the commentariat here at Reason.

            Do the Daily Kos readers generally believe things because the writers over there say so? The appeal to authority fallacy may be the the one to which the libertarian personality is least susceptible–just for reasons of temperament.

            I don’t think anyone’s ever accused the Reason commentariat of believing anything just because the staff here said so.

            1. What you don’t seem to realize is that others are capable of reading a piece of journalism, and neither believing nor disbelieving what it says. We can file it away with a probability of its being correct, suspend judgement until more reporting is done, etc.

              It is the CACLLs here, who always try to push every conversation into a black-and-white team exercise, and pigeon hole everyone that claim people like me “believe” or “don’t believe” news stories we read in Reason or other sources.

            2. Case in point: when the Kenosha shooting happened, first thing I did was to express sympathy that a 17-year-old may have fucked up his life. JesseAz immediately tried to twist what I said to be proof that I believed Rittenhouse was guilty. I was sitting there reading news reports, just like everyone else, with no firm beliefs at all.

    2. “Former Tax collector Joel Greenburg in Seminole County Florida was best buds with Rep. Gaetz.”

      Seems exceptionally relevant.

      Hey, what about what Biden’s son has done? Is that ALSO relevant?

      1. Who? Never heard of him.

      2. Well, since you asked, Hunter Biden and anything he has done is not relevant to whether Gaetz has done some misdeeds of his own.

        1. No, it isn’t. However, the treatment of, and focus on Gates relative to the media’s blatant protection of Hunter Biden, showcases the utter hypocrisy of the left in general and the media in particular.

          Or basically, this illustrates that leftists don’t give a shit about sex crimes. Unless it’s an opportunity to damage someone who engages in wrongthink.

    3. No mention of gaetzs counter investigation into this extortion?

      Hmm that’s odd they’re only reporting one side of the story?

    4. Thanks for mentioning Maddow. That allowed me to move on.

  11. Massachusetts also upgraded to scary new words for pimping within the last couple decades.

  12. “If the Times report on Gaetz’s relationship and activities is true”

    I’ll need a bit more than the Times’ say-so before I believe these charges.

  13. I have noted the term “smear job” in comments with regard to the story on Matt Gaetz and I suggest that is wishful thinking. This investigation started in the former President’s DOJ header by William Barr. While the former President will hold a grudge, Gaetz was a strong supporter and this is unlikely a case of pay back. It is also worth noting that Gaetz is getting little support. He was on Tucker Carlson show yesterday to address the issue and Tucker provided no cover in his comments. Gaetz’s big problem is his association with a local county tax collector who will drag him down. This is not the case of a “smear job” but rather the Congressman being a “nitwit”.

    As to the issue in the article how much better is it to be charged with statutory rape rather than sex trafficking. Either way Gaetz is finished.

    1. “…and I suggest that is wishful thinking.”

      That is their forte!

      1. “I suggest that is wishful thinking”

        Implications based on rumor without even an allegation, isn’t wishful thinking, but somehow pointing it out is.

        You nutbags are really twisting yourselves into pretzels over this, huh?

        1. Yet the Bidens are clearly innocent even though there is plenty of hard evidence of a myriad of crimes in their cases.

          1. Can you cite where anyone here has claimed Hunter Biden is innocent of all the various things he has been accused of? Or, you know, you can go on arguing against straw men — it’s easier on you that way.

            1. The leftist media has tangibly protected him since the whole laptop story came out last fall. Even without outright defense of HB, there are already cries of ‘whataboutism’.

              1. “anyone here”, I asked

                1. Why would I need to? And why would anyone have to prove anything to a known liar and sealioner like you?

                  Dee, you bitch!

        2. You’re the one defending obviously terrible people for no reason whatsoever. What is it about Nazis and being terrible? Aren’t there any decent ones of you?

          1. You are a terrible person who blindly defends terrible people all the time. We’re different in that if credible evidence proving these accusations materializes then we will condemn him.

            Democrats don’t care. This is just a vehicle to attack someone who does not follow their narrative. And let’s be honest Tony, you don’t care either. If this were a democrat you would protect them no matter what.

            So spare us your phony outrage, and go back to licking the loads off you local bathhouse floor.

            1. William Barr is out to get Republicans?

              1. No, but the NYT does. And you do. A,Erica will be a much better place after your kind are removed.

                1. The NYT didn’t open an investigation, Trump’s DOJ did. The NYT just reported on it.

                  I guess I should appreciate your openly fascist ranting. Obviously such details don’t matter to you. As they say, every problem is a hammer, and you’re a hammer smasher.

                  1. Fascist? What did I say that was remotely ‘fascist’? Do you know what fascist actually means? Words have meanings.

                    And the NYT is out to get Gaetz. Innocent or not. Just like you do. So stop playing the caring victim. You are neither of those things.

          2. Fuck off, Tony.

      2. If only we all could steal valor.

        1. On our side it isn’t necessary since many non progs serve our country and actually earn it. Athena concept is alien to their kind.

        2. If only you could sack up and take a bet.

          You make a habit of asserting things without the slightest bit of evidence.

          You know the bible says something about “bearing false witness” that ought to give you pause in your personal behavior and the politicians you carry water for.

          1. Bet schmett. Show us some proof Jeffy. You goddamn valor thieving child rape enthusiast.

          2. The bet was taken up. An email was given. You never sent your name or a way to link you to your “service”.

            1. He won’t because he can’t.

            2. He is lying. I have received no email. Again.

              1. Says the liar.

                1. Then go ahead and have Jesse post an email, and then ask me to email him. I will. Why am I expected to do all the work, and then called a liar when the counter party doesn’t do anything?

                  You can ankle bite all you want, but the fact of the matter is that I am going out of my way to bring about a direct face to face confrontation with Jesse, and he is doing all he can to avoid it.

                  1. Here’s the weaseling out email Stolen Valor sent me when I accepted his challenge:

                    This is the first email I have received at this account. Congrats. No, I will not be taking a call with you, for the following reasons:

                    1. You are an irrelevant Canadian
                    2. You have no idea how to judge the evidence I would present, being that you are not American, not military, and not reasonable.
                    3. You have never demonstrated an ability to engage in good faith and honesty, or demonstrated even basic knowledge of libertarianism.

                    Get SoldierMedic, Red Rocks, or John on board, and I will let you conference into the call.

                    Thanks,
                    DOL

                    He’s so full of shit.

                    1. Well, I guess mother finally gets me to respond.

                      How is that weaseling, when I very much never offered any bet to you, you have offered me nothing in return, you have no ability to vet any proof anyway, and I am supposed to trust you to not doxx me?

                      Just ask Jesse or Talcum to do it. Even Talcum doing it means that Jesse is letting someone else fight his battles. Pretty lame.

                    2. Damn Jeffy, you are one slimy, goalpost moving motherfucker.

                      Just slink away you goddamn valor thief.

        3. De opp explained above how he has set up an email address where you can contact him? Why haven’t you done so?

  14. I heard a rumor that Matt Gaetz fucked a chicken but I’m not clear on the details of the bestiality laws in Florida, can we get a lengthy explainer on that?

    By the way, Reason just this morning stated as fact that Matt Gaetz was under investigation, i.e. without the usual disclaimer of “according to sources”, which seems to me an actionable defamation of character if it turns out that Matt Gaetz is not in fact under investigation. I can’t help but wonder why ENB is still going with the “according to sources” disclaimer if Reason knows for a fact that Matt Gaetz is indeed under investigation.

    1. He admitted himself he was under investigation. On camera.

      How is it that GQPers are always so eager to deny things that are already plainly in evidence?

      1. No, he did not.

        Try again .

  15. He’s a prick. If he even approaches a child, he should be charged with statutory rape.

    1. The GOP picks such cartoonishly awful people these days.

      The dude looks like the bad guy from The Mask when he puts the mask on. His own GOP colleagues call him the meanest guy on the hill. He is an unaccomplished trust fund baby who only rose to prominence on the coattails of his father (sound familiar?). What’s more, his father’s fortune was made from tax dollars by creating a charity which he then took private once he successfully lobbied for medicare funding for the org as a state politician.

      As scummy and “swampy” as it gets! But of course, the cult can drop its own rhetoric and supposed values when it suits them. And boy, did Matt suit them! A complete and total sycophant. Really something for these cultists around here to aspire to.

      1. > The dude looks like the bad guy from The Mask when he puts the mask on.

        I think everyone knows that it’s possible to judge a person just by looking at them.

        1. Didn’t read the rest of it? You guys are such joyless bores.

      2. As someone pointed out on Twitter, he looks like Bob’s Big Boy come to life.

        1. Dee, you bitch!

    2. You’re a prick too J(ew)Free. Is that the reason enough for you to be charged with statutory rape?

  16. “three people briefed on the matter,”
    “the New York Times”

    (sniffs the air)

    I smell bullshit.
    Are those three any of the gang involved in four years of creative writing called “the Russia scandal”?
    Oh wait, I know; the steele dossier.

    I don’t even believe the date on the front page of the WaPo or NYT.

    1. Why do you cultists all refuse to simply read the 3 reports on the matter, which contain long sections of strictly fact finding with little editorial? You can know, for free, basically everything that is known about that incident.

      And what is known is that several leaders within the Trump campaign had extensive contact with Russian spies, and lied to cover up those connections. The campaign expected help from the Russians, and neglected to report that offer of help to the FBI, in fact lying about that specific meeting in 4 iterations of lies until something resembling the truth came out undeniably. Roger Stone, at the very least, knew about the hack of Hillary’s campaign before the general public, and was communicating with both wikileaks and someone connected to Russian intelligence closely.

      That is the bare bones facts of what occurred. This is undeniable to “reasonable people”. Ask Sydney Powell what that term means.

      1. “Why do you cultists all refuse to simply read the 3 reports on the matter”

        I have, several times in fact. I’m guessing you actually haven’t, which is why you’re lying about the contents.

        I’ll tell you what, Stolen Valor, how about you cite the parts that you claim back your assertions?

        1. It isn’t a guess, he hasn’t read them. Full stop.

      2. The reports that don’t say what you claim they say? Because you lied about reading them just as you lie about your service?

        1. I have posted the reports with citations to the pages many times. I am not going to repeat that work. But here is an excellent summary with citations from those senate reports as base documents, from the excellent lawfare blog.

          https://www.lawfareblog.com/collusion-reading-diary-what-did-senate-intelligence-committee-find

          An excerpt:

          “The first section of the report concerns Paul Manafort, Trump’s one-time campaign chairman who resigned from the campaign in August 2016 following news reports of his previous work for a pro-Russian Ukrainian political party. Manafort was indicted in October 2017 in the course of the Mueller investigation and was eventually convicted of, and pleaded guilty to, charges including bank and tax fraud. Manafort’s business associate Rick Gates, who served on the Trump transition team, also pleaded guilty to fraud charges. Much of the Senate report’s information on Manafort echoes the Mueller report’s conclusions, but the Intelligence Committee is far more aggressive in its description of the counterintelligence threats posed by Manafort’s involvement with the campaign.

          “Manafort had direct access to Trump and his Campaign’s senior officials, strategies, and information,” the committee notes, as did Gates—and “Manafort, often with the assistance of Gates, engaged with individuals inside Russia and Ukraine on matters pertaining both to his personal business prospects and the 2016 U.S. election.”

          The report provides a brief overview of Manafort’s “connections to Russia and Ukraine,” which date to “approximately 2004.” In brief, Manafort began work then for the Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska and pro-Russian oligarchs in Ukraine, which eventually led to his role in engineering the 2010 election to the Ukrainian presidency of pro-Russian candidate Viktor Yanukovych. While the Mueller report described Deripaska as “closely aligned with Vladimir Putin,” the committee’s report is much more direct: “The Russian government,” the committee writes, “coordinates with and directs Deripaska” in conducting influence operations, with which Manafort also assisted. At another point, the committee states that “Manafort’s influence work for Deripaska was, in effect, influence work for the Russian government and its interests.”

          In other words, as a baseline matter, the Trump campaign was—for a time—run by a man who himself had carried out influence operations on behalf of Russian interests.

          It gets worse, however.”

          1. It gets worse? Please elucidate… Because in congressional testimony this was said:

            “So with respect to the Steele reporting,” Auten told the committee, “the actual allegations and the actions described in those reports could not be corroborated.”

            https://thefederalist.com/2021/03/31/this-russiagate-fbi-analyst-couldnt-verify-anything-in-the-steele-dossier-yet-said-nothing-for-years/

            Instead you link to something that isn’t illegal. Internal campaign data to someone isn’t collusion or working illegally with a foreign entity. Something the reports say did not happen. Weird you ignore that part.

            By your assertion, Hillary giving an interview to a British newspaper is an election catastrophe!!! She worked with a foreign government to affect an election!!! She actually did this directly by paying a foreign national to work with russian assets for the dossier which has been almost completely refuted, see above testimony.

            You are terrible at this. And a lefty. And steal valor.

            I mean, you’re the idiot who still believes Trump tower was pinging foreign banks in some type of pay to play scheme. You’re an idiot stolen valor.

            1. Who the fuck brought up the Steele dossier? How is that relevant to the 3 senate intel reports and Mueller report on the matter? I gave you a guided tour of the official government narrative, found by witness testimony, electronic intercept of commo, and our own and allied intelligence service findings. You respond with an opinion piece about a bit player.

              C’mon man. You can see that your evidence is quite thin. Why do you do this? Just like Trump because he makes you feel good, but don’t invent a whole other reality to make yourself feel better about it. That’s sad, and puts you in a position that makes it very easy to discount anything you say.

              Forget Steele. He’s irrelevant to the question of whether or not Trump campaign cooperated with Russian intelligence services. The several bi-partisan reports on the matter do not rely on Steele to make or break a case against Trump.

              So now that I’ve linked the reports, again, with specific page cites to specific testimonies and other pieces of specific evidence, can you defend Trump on those specifically, or do you need to bring in an opinion piece about something tangentially related in order to derail the conversation before it gets to the heart of the matter?

              1. Just stop. You’re embarrassing yourself. Go back to avoid. Or whatever hole you crawled out from.

  17. His outright strange denial of the accusations on Tucker Carlson’s show, while claiming that he was working for the FBI and DOJ the whole time, sort of confirms that there is an investigation going on.

    Then he tried to implicate Carlson on his show, and Carlson immediately denied any knowledge of having met some underage girl at a dinner he had with Gaetz.

    LOLZ

    1. That is a really weird take on what was on the Carlson show.

      I finally watched it this morning.

      What he states is that a former DOJ official was attempting to blackmail his family. They went to the FBI and the FBI recorded conversations setting up the payoff.

      He says the New York Times story came out the day before the payoff was set to happen. his allegation is that someone inside the DOJ leaked the story in order to squash the investigation into their buddy and his friends who now work for private law firms.

      He also called on the feds to release the tapes of those phone calls, claiming that it would completely vindicate him.

      It was not bizarre, it was pretty straightforward.

  18. I’m more skeptical than ever with these accusations from the NY Times or Washington Post. They get to do their smear like the Trump involvement in the Georgia election and then quietly retract when the actual evidence comes out.
    The court of public opinion never gets a proper correction.

    1. Evidence like the recorded phone calls of Trump pressuring elected officials to lose just the right amount of ballots?

      1. That was him draining the swamp! Don’t you see, the man who explicitly asked Russia for help getting elected last go around is the sole beacon of truth and light and will save us from the evil pedophiles who are fixing the election (by letting people vote without artificial inconvenience)?!

        1. The evil pedophile who used to be the Republican speaker of the House, the evil pedophile who used to be the Republican president of the United States, or the evil pedophile in this article? Hard to keep track of them all.

          1. No, those are all fake news. The pedophiles in the basement of the basementless pizza joint was the correct answer.

          2. Cool story bro. You gonna bring up all the child molesters in the democrat party? There are soooo many. But then you don’t really care at all. This I about having a delivery system to attack republicans. Nothing more.

            1. I understand that you believe that, but that’s because you only consult trash propaganda instead of facts.

              1. Damn you’re pathetic. That’s fine though. We’re far past discussion. People are waking up to the fact that the only way to stop progressivism is to reduce the numbers of progs.

                I can only hope your suffering is legendary when you finally force decent people to destroy you in self defense.

                1. I feel like I’m speaking to the world’s smallest penis.

                  1. Not surprising that you’re fixated on cock. And I’m sure after decades of oversized dildos and cock in your ass anything less than that would be unsatisfactory.

                    1. No need to apologize, I’m no size queen.

                    2. Just a queen. Go back to licking the loads off your local bathhouse floor

      2. That was disproven you retarded faggot.

      3. Wow, even after Wapo retracted this lie you still repeat it. And DoL repeats it as well like a trained leftist dog. hilarious. Hilarious.

      4. Lmao.

        You do realize they had to retract that story because THE ACTUAL TAPES OF THE CALL WERE RELEASED 2 WEEKS AGO don’t you?

        Tony you are a full bucket of retard.

        1. There was more than one phone call. Maybe you shouldn’t go around calling people retarded if you don’t know basic facts like that.

          1. So they retracted their story even though there *was* a phone recording where he actually said that? Why didn’t they just say “sorry, we quoted the wrong call”?

            That makes no sense. Almost like you’re a retard too.

  19. There is the fun little fact that Gaetz was literally the only person in the entire Senate and House to vote no against a sex trafficking bill in 2017.

    1. He used the excuse of trying to limit the Federal Government’s power. Laughable.

      1. You’d think ENB would be utterly supportive, no?

        1. Behind every apparent double standard is a single standard.

          She’s as dishonest as Jeff/DoL/raspberry/cytotoxic is.

  20. I wonder how guys like Gaetz do in prison. With his charm, record, and character, he could be cell block president . . . or maybe, just maybe, worse.

    1. Let’s find out by sending you there first. Odds are they would knock your teeth out to make your mouth more useful. And to shut you up.

      1. Sounds like you’re talking from experience.

        1. No. I’m one of the good guys. Unlike you I actually did serve, and I’ve never been to jail, let alone prison.

          It’s going to end very badly for you Jeffy. I only wish I could be there to see it when karma finally bites you in the ass.

          1. You seem preoccupied with others’ comeuppance. A common trait among cultists.

            1. Says the vindictive douche who is butt hurt people caught him lying so he stalks their posts on a website he doesn’t even read.

            2. I wouldn’t know. I’ve never been in a cult. I’m not much of a joiner. Which precludes the leftism that you slavishly cling to.

          2. If you served then why are you breaking your oath to uphold the constitution?

            You supported overturning an election. You supported overthrowing our government.

            You belong in jail you traitor.

            1. I’m the patriot, you’re the traitor. No democrat is capable of patriotism anymore.

    2. An old joke comes to mind, that is easily adapted for Matt Gaetz:
      It’s Matt’s first day in prison, he meets his cellmate, a very large man named Leon.

      Leon: “What you have to decide is – are you gonna be the husband, or are you gonna be the wife?”

      Matt thinks for a moment, then says: “I think I’ll be the husband.”

      Leon smiles, then says: “That’s fine – now come over here and SUCK YOUR WIFE’S DICK!”

  21. We need to change these outdated laws regarding appropriate ages for sexual activity. Clearly, if a person of undesignated sex/gender is old enough to change said gender/sex to another one, they are old enough to use the abilities of either the current or former sex/gender.
    So the age of consent should be about five or so?

    1. I guess since you and many others think it’s cool to constantly bash what is probably the smallest minority in the world, then it’s ok for you do. Hopefully one of your children will transition someday and you can deal with it. But you may be so small minded that the only logical reaction you could have is to disown them.

      But on the matter at hand. If Geatz did what he is accused of, he should do se time in prison. To me, the only time a legal adult should be with a minor, is if he or she is maybe 18, 19 or 20 and has known the minor since they were both minors. But if your a 30 something grown ass man, it should be illegal. Opps excuse me for calling Gaetz a grown ass man. He still acts pretty childish if you ask me.

    2. Do you never feel ashamed for caring about exactly what FOX News programming instructs you to care about precisely when it orders you to?

      1. You’re the resident Fox viewer here. I’m sure you jack it to Tucker nightly, don’t you faggot?

        1. TRAITOR

          1. No. I don’t support democrats. You do. You’re the traitor. You commit treason with every breath you take.

            Perhaps you should breathe no more.

  22. Now this is some funny shit. I can’t wait to see how it turns out. I also watched his interview with Tucker last night. I love how gaetz implicated Tucker. Tucker quickly washed his hands of that mess. Hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. The entertainment value with these far right wingers never ends. It’s amazing.

    1. Not nearly as amusing as that coming from TDS-addled piles of shit like you.

      1. Oh oh. Did I hurt your little snowflake feelings? Trump and his little party is falling apart. Just deal with it.

        1. It’s actually gaining strength every day.

          Beware progtard.

          1. Progtard? I doubt it, I’m a libertarian. How about you? Maybe trumplican? That’s a party I’d be ashamed of joining.

  23. To people still loyal to the party of Dennis Hastert and Donald Trump, this is presumably small potatoes.

    Poor frat Matt. What is it about the sons of important Republicans? Are they all terrible? Every single one?

    Or it could be another case of being blackmailed for something he didn’t do. Happens all the time right?

    1. You’re a silly bitch, aren’t you faggot. Ignoring how your whole party are murderers, child molesters rapists, and traitors.

      It will be good when you’re finally face down in a landfill under a pile of your fellow travelers. You’re probably a bottle anyway.

      1. I can practically taste the freedom being offered by libertarianism.

        1. Freedom I’m sure you want to destroy. And your kind never stops. Which is why it’s going to end badly for you.

          It’s impossible for you and your fellow travelers to leave others on peace.

          1. But you’re constantly calling for genocide.

            1. Genocide? I don’t think you understand the definition of that word. Although I don’t really consider you to be a real human. So maybe it applies. Assuming soulless garbage like you qualifies as a real form of life.

          2. Shut up you anti-American traitor.

            1. No, you’re confused. I’m not a democrat. Democrats are traitors.

      2. TRAITOR

      3. Somebody is off his meds.

  24. Chuck Berry was prosecuted under the Mann Act. Liberals used to hate it too.
    https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88104308

  25. The NYT’s anonymous sources have about as much credibility as the National Enquirer. I’ll believe in Bat Baby before I believe anything the NYT’s anonymous sources say.

    Is it possible that he paid a 17 year old for sex? Sure. Politicians and rich people have a habit of doing shit like that.
    Is it also equally possible that a former DOJ official tried to blackmail him? Absolutely. The DOJ is rife top to bottom with scumbags. They lied to the FISA court on a warrant application. Extortion of a B List politician is small potatoes when you can spend years and billions of taxpayer dollars on a fishing expedition against a sitting president, based on a lie.

    This will end up the same way the Afghan bounties and bad mouthing troops stories ended up: incendiary accusation by anonymous sources>bmultiple news outlets “verifying” the story by citing each other> no additional information presented, no facts given>2-3 day news cycle where it’s top story> disappears from the news cycle with no resolution and no further discussion.

  26. I’m skeptical. A 17 year old? If my dad had $US25 million, I wouldn’t travel anywhere with fewer than 2 17 year olds.

    1. No. You’re a democrat. You would travel with an eight year old, and a nine year old.

  27. Gaetz must scare the shit out of the totalitarian leftists.
    Just look at all the bots they sent in.

    1. A few months ago, lefty twitter was saying Gaetz’s adopted son was really his underaged gay lover. It was a huge, hilarious joke to them to mock and humiliate a teenager like that. These people are very, very ill.

      Regarding sex trafficking a minor, lefties think children are capable of consenting to things like transgender treatment and abortions, but can’t consent to sex? They can fuck directly off, pretending to care.

      1. It’s time to get rid of the left.

  28. Meanwhile Hunter Biden clearly lied on his Federal form 4473. An offense that would put any one of us in prison.

    1. Amazing that none of the writers here have any problem with such a disparate outcome for the politically connected.

      1. You’re the one excusing what could be sex trafficking as a hit job.

        So what is it Thomas? Do you want justice or do you just want vengeance against the other side?

        1. What part of “fuck off Jeff” does not apply to you?

          So, fuck off Jeff.

        2. “…You’re the one excusing what could be sex trafficking as a hit job….”

          Pretty sure you’ve yet to prove you don’t fuck chickens, so what you do could be bestiality.

      2. Were you complaining this much when Kushner lied multiple times on his SF86 application for a clearance and STILL got the clearance despite being advised to never have one?

        I highly doubt it. It’s never principle with you guys- it’s pure hatred of “the other.”

        1. We’re you complaining this much when two separate businesses associates of the bidens, Bevan Cooney, and Tony bobulinski, turned over massive amounts of documents, many of which corroborate messages and emails on hunters laptop, to The fbi implicating the Biden family, including Joe, in quid pro quo bribery schemes from Ukraine to China, and then the fbi sat on it all through the election?

          1. Of course he wasn’t.

    2. Is that like the SF86 that Kushner lied on, over and over, or is it more important?

      Oh it’s a gun purchase form. A supposed libertarian is upset that someone didn’t register their firearms purchases correctly with the feds. LOL.

      Everyone who has ever smoked pot lies on that form. They make it so you have to lie. Dozen felonies a day and all that.

      1. So you just admitted to lying on that form as well.

        I realize you’re just another Tony sock but try not to out yourself as a pervert and criminal if you can help it.

        1. Guys, this “libertarian” thinks pot smoking makes you a pervert and criminal.

          Seriously, what are you doing here?

          1. Pervert makes no sense, but it does (technically) make you a criminal. Armed robbers often steal my money to enforce that technicality against you, that their armed robberies are the real crimes does not seem to matter to very many.

    3. That Hunter Biden has clearly screwed-up everything that he has ever tried is a poor reason to flush every libertarian and Constitutional principle and embrace every form of big intrusive government. To say nasty things about opponents is no reason to embrace their rotten ideas nor is that someone being good at “mean tweets” about opponents a good reason to embrace him in spite of his sharing most of those opponents’ rotten ideas. Rag Hunter about something else. He provides enough form which to choose.

      Form 4473 and “background checks” shouldn’t exist. GCA 68 should be repealed and, likely, NFA 34, too.

      1. File this under things Reason writers somehow never bother to say.

        Much less note the obvious double standard for the Democrat connected types.

  29. Two divergent things here strike me.

    That accepting the classic libertarian position of decriminalizing all sex, avocational or vocational, between consenting adults and having a consistent age of consent across jurisdictions is necessary if we truly want to find and meaningfully act against the bad actors; that it would protect everyone else in various ways is a a big free bonus.

    The Qanon and Pizzagate people’s political pinups from Epstein’s and Maxwell’s party pal Trump to underage (paid and adopted) traveling companions Gaetz to “Grecian Wrestler” Jordan seem to be the pols closest to actually being the kiddy diddlers that they purport to oppose. Were these cults seeded as distractions to yell and point away from the real sex criminals?

    1. “…Epstein’s and Maxwell’s party pal Trump…”

      You misspelled “Clinton”, steaming pile of TDS-addled shit.

      1. You’re a BDS addled fascist Sevo.

        How was your latest loser meeting?

        I mean 12 step meeting?

        1. Pluck off and go back to your Mormon temple.

  30. To my eye, if kids are old enough to be charged as adults with crimes, then they are old enough to give consent about who they fuck, too. Let’s watch the dweebles explode trying to sort that one out.

  31. Okay now that the media has moved on from the documented sex crimes of Cuomo to possible sex crimes of a republican. their job is done the people have a… Look squirrel.

  32. If he were guilty, he’d have already switched to the Democrat party so that the DOJ would drop the case.

    -jcr

  33. The “toilet” paper of record strikes again with the fakest of fake news about a rising America first GOP star. Big surprise. This administration is scared to death of the real Prez, DJT and his ilk.

    1. They are scared they are losing their grip on international affairs. They are afraid of people rioting and keeping their own left wing in line. Trump and his ilk are comic relief.

      1. Asshole, you have never offered any supported claims.
        Make the world a better place and quit hoping that those from a libertarian site which you hate will double the click rate on your assholic blog.

  34. Gaetz is a Trump loving fascist.

    Let’s wait for all the facts to call him a perv.

  35. Maybe I missed it, but did it ever mention a time frame and what age Gaetz was at the time of the alleged activity? Was he even in Congress at the time?

    Will we have the cast of CNN and MSNBC telling us the noose is tightening, as it always was during the Russian investigation?

  36. Just what kind of family fortune does Gaetz’s family have to cause a possible extortionist to demand $25 million?

    1. Several generations of career politicians.

    2. Apparently, quite a large one.

      In the old days of the far flung British and European Empires these very wealthy and connected families sent their most incorrigibly perverted, criminal, and / or insane spawn to some sparse and remote Tropical Colony were they could do very little harm or at least draw very little attention. In today’s America, they send them into politics were they can do the most harm and draw the most attention. Imperialism, despite its many faults, had some few merits.

      1. “…In today’s America, they send them into politics were they can do the most harm and draw the most attention. Imperialism, despite its many faults, had some few merits….”

        Yes, a steaming pile of TDS-addled shit like you is more than happy with one more Clinton, Bush, and the long-term slopper at the public trough Biden!
        Trump, OTOH, scared shit out of TDS-addled assholes like you; he might well have (and did) change things. Poor TDS-addled asshole; scared you with his mean tweets, right?
        Stuff your TDS up your ass so your head has someone to talk to, TDS-addled asshole.
        Oh, and please, for the good of humanity, fuck off and die.

  37. That well known right wing cover up site had an interesting article about the Gaetz mess. Not only does Gaetz straight up deny having sex with a 17 year old; he claims she does not exist. To wit:

    “The 17-year-old in question “doesn’t exist,” Gaetz said, adding that he has “not had a relationship with a 17-year-old. That is totally false.”

    The article goes on to say when he contacted the FBI he got this response:

    “Assistant U.S. Attorney David Goldberg responded: “I can confirm that your client is working with my office as well as the FBI at the government’s request in order to determine if a federal crime has been committed. This has been discussed with, and approved by, the FBI as well as the leadership of my office and components of Main Justice.”

    The article also has copies of what are claimed to be an extortion attempt. They basically say in return for money paid to the former DOJ lawyer Gaetz’s problems will go away.

    Must be a real kick in the dick for the dems.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/documents-detail-wild-alleged-dollar25-million-gaetz-extortion-scheme/ar-BB1faZ5s

  38. Like good Democrats Reason uses the NYT as a source.

  39. “None of this is to say that a man who is in his thirties “dating” a teenager is something to be condoned.”

    Methinks someone in their thirties lucky enough to land a willing legal teenager would disagree

    1. St Stephen with a rose for a teen cuz he’s a pervert ya know.
      Country garden in the wind in the rain. Your a pervert is what all normal people will sing.

  40. St Stephen with a rose for a teen cuz he’s a pervert ya know.
    Country garden in the wind in the rain. Your a pervert is what all normal people will sing.

    1. That was for St Stephen the perv commenter above this one

      1. A three-fer.
        Shitstain, you get the proper response: flag, refresh.
        Fuck off and die.

  41. I’m not buying the BS about consensual sex between two people above the age of consent being “creepy” or “crossing a moral line.” What exact ages qualify for this determination? And the article’s attempt to define prostitution or commercial sex is also BS. Almost all sex can be classified as commercial if something of value was exchanged at some point in the relationship. So that’s almost all sex. Prostitution laws criminalize most consensual sex if applied fully. But it shouldn’t matter. All of this just highlights the insane sexual puritanism today which is criminalizing normal consensual human sexuality. By today’s standards, all our ancestors would be sex offenders and we’re all products of statutory rape. Heck, most people today qualify as sex offenders since the average age of first intercourse is 17 for both genders.

    So basically, unless there’s much more to the story, this is just a politically motivated horse shit job. Any libertarian should understand that.

    1. “None of this is to say that a man who is in his thirties “dating” a teenager is something to be condoned. Most people can probably agree that it is, at the very least, creepy.”

      Elizabeth the Prostitution Promoter goes Elizabethan and swoons onto her fainting couch over *age differences* in *dating*. Muh Libertarian Moment!

      If this were a “working girl”, ENB would defend the wholesomeness of her banging a hundred 100 years olds simultaneously.

      Reason is such a clown show these days.

      1. Best post of the whole effing thread!

        Probably the best post on Reason for all of April.

    2. Heck, most people today qualify as sex offenders since the average age of first intercourse is 17 for both genders.

      I’m one of those backwards hillbillies that thinks sex belongs in marriage, but the utter idiocy that a 17 year old can consent to sex with another 17 year old but can’t consent to sex with a 25 year old is some destructive hypocrisy.

      It would be better for a 17 year old girl to get accidentally knocked up by a 25 year old with a steady job than a 17 year old bagging groceries or trying to get that sports scholarship. One of those is in a far better position to provide than the other is.

  42. Sex trafficking is human trafficking for the purpose of sexual exploitation, including sexual slavery, which is considered a form of modern slavery.

    Download Ken Erics Movies

  43. “Most people can probably agree that it is, at the very least, creepy.”

    Right — which is why almost everybody finds this romantic scene between a teenager and a man in his 30s so repulsive. I can’t believe Jane Austen hasn’t been canceled yet (or has she and I just missed it? It is hard to keep up).

  44. Rep. Gaetz apparently is getting to close to the truth so it is time to discredit him and ruin his life if possible. There is no evidence he had a relationship with a 17 year old girl but that is only a minor consideration. The left and their ally the fake news will repeat this until that is all anyone every remembers about him. He started with two strikes against him already. He is from Florida and supported President Trump’s America first policies. The left hates Florida because of how well Governor DeSantis is doing and is growing politically as is Rep. Gaetz. If they feel threatened this is their recourse. If they can’t beat them politically they simply turn to propaganda. Regardless of the outcome of this Rep. Gaetz will incur some damage. People still relate Governor DeSantis with killing people with covid and it will be the same for Rep. Gaetz. They just need to now repeat it often enough and no amount of facts and truth will ever counter it.

    1. William Barr is part of “the left”?

    2. Yeah, Trump fixer Bill Barr personally OKed the investigation.

  45. _”Some have argued that if Gaetz paid for someone he was having sex with to travel with him, this constitutes commercial sex. But the key thing when it comes to “commercial sex acts”—whether we’re talking about activity between consenting adults or activity that would qualify as criminal sex trafficking—is that any payment must be in exchange for sex.”_

    OK, but the allegation is that Gaetz *directly* payed the girl(s) via CashApp and Apple Pay. So that’s not just paying for a hotel room and dinner, right? They find the girl online, pay for her travel and hotel, they party and have sex, and the girl(s) is paid for it.

    If that’s the case, that’s pretty clear-cut trafficking.

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