Marjorie Taylor Greene Presents Republicans With a Sadly Familiar Choice Between Blind Loyalty to Trump and a Basic Respect for Reality

The Georgia representative has embraced nearly every crazy conspiracy theory that is popular on the right.

The House Republican Conference is meeting today to consider complaints against Rep. Liz Cheney (R–Wyo.), the third-ranking Republican in the House, and Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R–Ga.), a freshman elected in November. Cheney's sin is that she was one of 10 Republicans who voted in favor of impeaching Donald Trump for his conduct on the day of the January 6 Capitol riot. Greene's sin is that she is a loony conspiracy theorist who has endorsed nearly every crazy idea circulating among right-wing agitators, depicting her political opponents as traitors, child molesters, Nazi collaborators, and murderers.

Cheney's pro-Trump colleagues want her to lose her position as chair of the House Republican Conference. Democrats think Greene "should be removed from her committee assignments in light of conduct she has exhibited." The New York Times says the debate about which of them should be punished and how is "a proxy battle for the [Republican] party's future." If so, it is not a battle over ideology or policy; it is a battle over which should count for more in the Republican Party: blind obeisance to Trump or a basic respect for reality.

Among other things, Greene has backed Trump's wild claims of massive election fraud, saying the results in Georgia should be "decertified"; embraced the QAnon and Pizzagate fantasies; linked Hillary Clinton to pedophilia and human sacrifice; charged Clinton and her husband with killing John F. Kennedy Jr.; described Barack Obama as a secret Muslim who commissioned the murder of Democratic National Committee staffer Seth Rich; suggested that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D–Calif.) and other leading Democrats should be executed for treason; peddled an explanation for a California wildfire involving space lasers, the Rothschilds, and Gov. Jerry Brown; called Jewish billionaire George Soros "a piece of crap who turned in his own people over to the Nazis" and "a Nazi" who is "trying to continue what was not finished"; shared a video alleging that "Zionist supremacists" are committing "the biggest genocide in human history" by flooding Europe with nonwhite immigrants; argued that the Parkland and Sandy Hook school shootings were "false flag" operations aimed at promoting gun control; claimed there was "never any evidence" that a plane crashed into the Pentagon during the 9/11 attacks; and declared that anyone who is an observant Muslim "does not belong in our government."

This week Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R–Ky.) castigated Greene without naming her. "Somebody who's suggested that perhaps no airplane hit the Pentagon on 9/11, that horrifying school shootings were pre-staged, and that the Clintons crashed JFK Jr.'s airplane is not living in reality," McConnell said in a statement to The Hill. "This has nothing to do with the challenges facing American families or the robust debates on substance that can strengthen our party."

McConnell, who last month said Trump "provoked" the Capitol riot with "lies" about the election but nevertheless voted against trying his impeachment in the Senate, warned that "loony lies and conspiracy theories are cancer for the Republican Party and our country." Sen. Mitt Romney (R–Utah), a longtime Trump critic, says the GOP has no place for "kooks" like Greene. Even House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R–Calif.), a Trump loyalist who is trying to decide what should be done about Greene, concedes that some of her comments are "deeply disturbing."

Greene, who apparently recognized herself as a purveyor of "loony lies and conspiracy theories" even though McConnell did not name her, rejected his criticism. "The real cancer for the Republican Party is weak Republicans who only know how to lose gracefully," she tweeted on Monday. "This is why we are losing our country."

After news outlets exposed her outré views, Greene dismissed the evidence as "a few social media posts before I ran for Congress." She said many other people had managed her accounts and "some did not represent my views." By Greene's account, then, she let other people say some of that crazy stuff while speaking on her behalf, which hardly reflects well on her judgment. But unless she also hired an unhinged Greene impersonator to do interviews and appear in online videos, that excuse gets her only so far.

Trump, whose only criterion for liking people seems to be their loyalty to him, remains a fan. "I had a GREAT call with my all time favorite POTUS, President Trump!" Greene tweeted on Saturday. "I'm so grateful for his support and more importantly the people of this country are absolutely 100% loyal to him because he is 100% loyal to the people and America First."

Greene sees all the criticism of her as a validation. "The DC Swamp and the Fake News Media are attacking me because I am not one of them," she tweeted on Monday. "I am one of you." For Republicans, that's a problem.

Comments

[mad.casual]

Basic Respect for Reality

Reality reality or the reality where Trump was a Russian stooge who stole the election and we're all wearing masks to slow the spread 12 mos. later?

[Mother's Lament]

Unfounded accusations of paying Russian hookers to pee on Obama's bed is totally legit, but reviewing videotape of ballot box stuffing would be giving in to crazy conspiracy theories.

[Woodchipper for Preet Bharara ([e-mail])]

Cheney's pro-Trump colleagues want her to lose her position as chair of the House Republican Conference. Democrats think Greene "should be removed from her committee assignments in light of conduct she has exhibited." The New York Times says the debate about which of them should be punished and how is "a proxy battle for the [Republican] party's future." If so, it is not a battle over ideology or policy; it is a battle over which should count for more in the Republican Party: blind obeisance to Trump or a basic respect for reality.

Sullum provides a false premise. Blind obeisance to Trump or basic respect for reality? No. False premise. Sullum is reducing things to such simplicities that they are losing resolution of what they are. You can strip them both of their committee assignments without fake either/or scenarios. Cheney betrayed her constituency. She is gone. She will not be reelected. Greene is precisely who they voted for in GA. They knew what they were getting. Whether or not they should have committee placement is up to the committee. And the committee's choices will likely consist of a multitude of reasons not dictated by Sullums false dichotomy.

[mad.casual]

Accusations and conspiracies aside, in this realilty the CDC is factually stating that the vaccine offers benefits to people who already got COVID, which isn't supported by the evidence and doesn't make sense.

Basic respect for reality indeed.

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[Lee Williams]

When she pulls down her mask, have you noticed the snout on this woman? It rivals Wonder Warthog's for sheer vulgarity! She's a monster!

[damikesc]

I'm glad she didn't accuse colleagues of trying to MURDER her. That would be a step too far and I can only imagine the rage Sullum would express over it.

LITERALLY, I can only imagine it...

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[Ken Shultz]

"Marjorie Taylor Greene Presents Republicans With a Sadly Familiar Choice Between Blind Loyalty to Trump and a Basic Respect for Reality"

In Sullum's mind, tolerance for the views of others seems to have gone out the window as a legitimate option.

I wonder, does Sullum think it's a problem for the Republicans to tolerate Mormons?

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

I bet the IHateRednecks guy has your answer to the Mormon dilemma.

[Ken Shultz]

Yeah, well, may him and Sullum should go bowling.

The idea that you can't work with someone to oppose the Green New Deal, bailing out the states, and packing the Court--because of what she thinks about the outcome of the 2020 election--is a lot like imagining that you can't work with Mormons to oppose the Green New Deal, bailing out the states, and packing the Court--because of their beliefs.

Stupid, self-destructive bigotry is nothing to be proud of--and refusing to do what's in your own best interests if it means working with people who think things you don't like is stupid, self-destructive bigotry. Mormons are members of the Republican party in good standing, and everyone who wouldn't associate with them because of their beliefs should be ashamed of themselves.

And if this woman believes anything worse than the idea that the government should force the American people to sacrifice their standard of living on the altar of climate change, I haven't heard about it. And there isn't anything about the popularity of this new bigotry against average Republicans, who don't believe what they're told, that makes bigotry any less disgraceful.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

So, "no enemies to the right", is that the new Ken motto?

[Mother's Lament]

Seeing as a right-winger for you is everyone to the right of Pol Pot, Ken's pretty big tent then.

[Ken Shultz]

I didn't say there were no enemies on the right. I was talking about why it's okay to work with people who believe the election was stolen in the fight against the Green New Deal, etc.

But, see, I don't think ChemJeff is being dishonest or lying about me saying that there are no enemies on the right. I just think he's so stupid he can't understand what he reads and doesn't know what a straw man is--much less how easy it is to avoid making a fool of himself this way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[chemjeff radical individualist]

No, Ken, it is literally what you believe.

From you below:

The observation is that if you want to muster opposition to the Green New Deal, bailing out the states, and packing the Court, how people feel about other things–be it Jesus in the Americas or whether the election was stolen–is mostly an undesirable distraction.

There you have it - anyone who opposes GND is an ally to Ken, and what they believe about anything else is an "undesirable distraction".

Hell, Ken, why don't you jump into bed with Stormfront while you're at it. I'm sure they're opposed to GND as well.

[Ken Shultz]

No.

Because I said that Mormons and people who think the election was stolen should be welcome allies in the fight against the Green New Deal, bailing out the states, and packing the Court doesn't mean there aren't any enemies on the right.

And the reason you don't understand that is because you're stupid.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Once again Ken. YOUR WORDS.

how people feel about other things–be it Jesus in the Americas or whether the election was stolen–is mostly an undesirable distraction.

I'm sure there are some white supremacists who also oppose GND. But that icky white supremacy stuff is just an "undesirable distraction". What's most important is stopping the GND. If it means you have to embrace Stormfront - that's a price you're willing to pay!

And if you think I'm twisting or distorting your words, let it be known that what you have said today is totally consistent with what you have said previously, when you argued that *deliberately lying* about the MASSIVE ELECTION FRAUD in order to undermine Biden's legitimacy is totally fair game, as long as it stops GND and your other bugaboos. So this is consistent with your recent worldview that nearly anything is justified in order to stop Biden. So if you are willing to throw American democracy under the bus in order to stop Biden, it's not really much of a stretch to believe you'd embrace 'no enemies to the right' either.

[Ken Shultz]

You're a fucking idiot.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

And you've flat-out said that you're an anti-rightist, so you're hardly one to claim the high ground here, you fat sack of shit.

[DesigNate]

Using some idiot white supremacist or commie fuck to kill the GND or state bailouts is perfectly fine. Making common cause with someone doesn’t mean you endorse all of their positions.

But we get it, you don’t actually care about stopping these anti-libertarian policies, because you’re a disingenuous leftist apologist.

[Beezard]

I’d just like to reiterate how depressing Sullum’s slide into hackery has been for me. I’ve read Reason for 15 years and I found him to be one of the most consistent and ballsy. Being reduced to anti-Trump click bait artist regurgitating NYT wordplay tactics is just pathetic.

To be clear, I don’t expect anyone to have to like Trump or agree the election was stolen or whatever. But for a magazine with pretensions to rising above the banalities of partisan two party dialogue, can you at least try neutralize your clear bias just a tad?

If you believe that it was more important to go ahead with the election results as they stood, despite possible irregularities, instead of possibly breaking the entire system by fighting the result, can’t you just say that? Without resorting to BASELESS!, etc? Can you at least recognize that part of the reason Trump is repugnant to the establishment is that he was actually shaking it up? There’s a fair argument that he was the lesser of two evils libertarianism wise, that’s why a faction of libertarians like him. He took on the powers that be.

What happened to trying to convince people of your position, instead of just throwing up a flag and virtue signaling to your lefty writer pals?

Srsly. There’s plenty of things I don’t like about populist conservatives. But their outlets have been making a lot more sense than Reason has been on a lot of this, lately.

[DarrenM]

I can understand why "journalists" would get tired of rational argument. It takes work. It's much easier label someone an enemy and indulge in hysterical denunciation. To be fair, it also seems many readers, not necessarily on this site, want them to go this route. It comes down to incentives.

[De Oppresso Liber]

So having a lawmaker who accuses jews of building space lasers to start wildfires in California is just an issue of tolerance, in your mind?

Were you using your very special Trump brand thinking cap when you made that last comment?

[Moonrocks]

We've had lawmakers who accuse Jews of secretly running the world to the detriment of non-Jews in committees and nobody batted an eyelash because they were all Democrats. I don't see why this is such a concern all of a sudden.

[mad.casual]

Several members of The Squad are both more batshit insane as well as more earnest in their assertions (and translating them into policy) and the President and Congress's party heralds them as the future.

[RickSteeb]

Greene is a psycho. There is NO place in Congress for her ilk-- Bottom line, full stop, end of discussion.

[damikesc]

Now do AOC!!!

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

And Ihlan Omar.

[JesseAz]

Are you in her district? Do you want to force voters to vote your way and only your way?

[damikesc]

I thought trying to overturn an election was, you know, bad. Apparently, it is not to Sullum.

[DarrenM]

No one of any consequence was "trying to overturn an election".
This is just the usual hysteria and hyperbole. There were challenges which many felt were not being addressed and attacking anyone who dared to question the results or even the integrity of any part of the election did absolutely nothing to allay suspicions.

[Ken Shultz]

Did she just retweet a meme; did she actually say what you're quoting, or are you just editorializing?

Leaving the Jews out of it, how would you compare the belief that space lasers started wildfires in California to socialism?

Because socialism is dumber than creationism. There's certainly more evidence that the universe is so big and complex that an omniscient God must have created it than there is evidence that Bernie Sanders and AoC have the omniscient powers necessary to run the economy better than markets do.

Meanwhile, how does splitting the party help the Republicans achiever their goals? If the Republicans are supposed to turn away opposition to the Green New Deal, bailing out the states, and packing the Court because of the stupid things people believe, that doesn't mean the Democrats will start dismissing all the people on their side who believe so many stupid things, does it?

Steve Young was a descendent of Brigham Young and a Mormon. He said he usually wore sacred garments under his clothes--but not when he was playing QB for the 49'ers because he thought it was sacrilegious to court injury while wearing them. Should the Niners have kept him off the field for his unconventional beliefs? That would have been stupid. He was an important member of the team--and they won the Super Bowl with him three times.

[Libertymike]

Nitpick nuance:

Yes, the 49ers won three Super Bowls with Young, but he was Joe Montana's back-up in two of them. He did not play in SB XXIII and if he played at all in SB XXIV, it was only in mop-up time after the 49ers had established an insurmountable lead against the Broncos.

[Ken Shultz]

Fair enough.

Still, it was a smart thing to keep on the team regardless of his personal beliefs, and while the Republicans are playing defense, they need every bit of support they can get.

[Libertymike]

Agreed.

To further your point, and to be thorough, Young did win a couple of games during the 1988 season when Joe M. was hurt.

[Overt]

"Did she just retweet a meme; did she actually say what you’re quoting, or are you just editorializing?"

No, unfortunately she is the meme. I just went and read the post that she made back in 2018, and it was SQRLSY levels of unhinged ranting. There is no defending her obvious nuttery.

None of that discounts what you have said- that this nuttery is pretty weak sauce in light of the republican need to resist a very anti-libertarian agenda currently afoot.

I disagree with Sullum that this is really a case of some terrible choice foisted on the GOP, for the reasons you stated. Nevertheless, the GOP would do very well to keep this lady off their committees and as far away from the press as is possible.

[See Double You]

Yep, that's how I read it, too. Greene is just another gift to the Dems to distract from their shitty, authoritarian agenda.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

The Dems and the media initially tried to make Lauren Boebert the meme, but Greene's stuff was far juicier.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

With that said, the people in Greene's district knew exactly what they were getting when they voted for her. If she has to be removed for tweeting goofy conspiracy theories, then the Democrats have quite a bit of their own house that needs to get cleaned up as well.

[DarrenM]

The difference is that no Democrats will get called on it by the media.

[Echospinner]

Leaving the Jews out of it...

Now just wait a minute here Ken. Speaking for myself of course the Jews are not at all out of it.

[Homple]

The Democrats have legislators as untethered from reality as Marjorie--I give you Eric Swalwell, Hank Johnson, Maxine Waters and Nancy Pelosi herself--whom they not only don't purge but elevate to committee chairmanships. The GOP excommunicates anyone who's a bit odd.

And the Democrats will be running the country for a very long time. Go figure.

[TJJ2000]

Case & Point; Pelosi's new house rules. Father, Mother, Daughter and Son are Sexist and not allowed! The left's batsh*t crazy is linked to authoritarian motives.

Even if Marjorie comments weren't taken out of context I'd much rather laugh at a joke then have the batsh*t crazy mentality RULE over anyone.

I got tired of looking into the details of unbelievably false narratives a while ago because EVERY-SINGLE-ONE turned out to be wrapped up into a cherry-picked, manipulative, entirely deception-al lying package.

What's Marjorie's Political Stance? SAVE AMERICA! STOP SOCIALISM! And who coincidentally just filed Biden Impeachment paper on the Hunter Scandal.

Lefty Deception and "smear" campaigns are almost as predictable as snow storms during an IPCC dust-bowl predicted year.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Yeah, but the Democrats have the media to run top cover for them. The Republicans don't.

[Nardz]

Sullum is a loyal and dedicated nazisoviet.

There are quite a few around here.

Start dealing with them as necessary, or they will take everything from you.

[Ken Shultz]

Somebody once wrote a really good book about what we should and shouldn't take away from people's beliefs in various conspiracy theories. In fact, it was a member of the staff at Reason!

https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-united-states-of-paranoia-jesse-walker?

One of the observations in that book is that conspiracy theories aren't a fringe thing. They've very much the way average people make sense of the world, and while they may not tell us very much about what's really happening in the world and why, they can tell us a lot about the people who believe in them.

The idea that we should turn away opposition to the Green New Deal, bailing out the states, and packing the Court because of whatever else someone believes is asinine. People who want to smear all Republicans with the same brush were sure to do so anyway, and the idea that the election was stolen isn't anywhere near as bad as progressives in the Democratic party who are openly advocating socialism--which is profoundly stupid, dangerous, and insane.

[James K. Polk]

So, it's Mormons *and* paranoid delusional conspiracy morons or neither?

[Ken Shultz]

The observation is that if you want to muster opposition to the Green New Deal, bailing out the states, and packing the Court, how people feel about other things--be it Jesus in the Americas or whether the election was stolen--is mostly an undesirable distraction. Mormons can make great friends in the fight against the Green New Deal, bailing out the states, and packing the Court, and so can people who think the election was stolen.

You may find this shocking, and don't run off and try to start a cancel culture campaign over this, but I happen to know for a fact that McDonalds sells cheeseburgers to people who believe the election was stolen. And worst of all, they just do it for the money! Those hungry Republicans come to McDonalds looking for cheeseburgers, and McDonalds just sells to them anyway--for selfish reasons--just to line their own pockets with money.

Do you think that's awful, or are you a grown up?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Big talk from someone whose namesake started a war as a blatant landgrab.

[Moonrocks]

Why isn't it a sadly familiar when a Democrat makes yet another antisemitic or racist remark, or theorizes on Russian interference in the election/economy/internet/society/under the bed, or attempts to incite violence, or raises millions of dollars for the legal defense of white mobs that burned black children alive in their own homes?

[Mother's Lament]

"there will be blood in the streets” - Loretta Lynch
“Who says protests have to be peaceful“ - Chris Cuomo
“There needs to be unrest in the streets” - Ayanna Pressley
“Protesters should not give up” - Kamala Harris
“I just don’t know why they aren’t uprising all over this country“ - Nancy Pelosi
“You get out and create a crowd and you push back on them, tell them they are not welcome“ - Maxine W

[Ra's al Gore]

Local stories.

[damikesc]

I loved when a guy quoted Waters verbatim, changed one name, and a Democrat felt his tweet was bad and refused to condemn Maxine's.

[DarrenM]

Her response was basically, "That was then. This is now."

[MasterThief]

I mean, half of these things are ridiculous and crazy, so I wouldn't be against her losing committee positions. On the other hand, the other half of those things are true, arguable, or in need of investigation. Sullum has a bad habit of ignoring or seriously considering conspiracies proposed by the left and going insane when better founded conspiracies and counter narrative information appear on the right. To my eyes, the election looks very suspicious. I think it is well-founded that Democrats do engage in significant election malfeasance every election, but this one had many more opportunities to do so through different methods. Many results seem implausible and the statistical anomalies always seem to heavily favor democrats. It doesn't mean there is massive, centrally controlled fraud, but it does hint that maybe something went wrong and just enough people in the right places were motivated to do things to advantage their political preferences

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

It would only make sense to remove her from the committee if it interfered with what the committee was working on. If the committee is let's work on saving the turtledove and Greene's only stance is 'Forget the turtledoves, what about those Pyro Jews with the lasers?' or 'You know why we can't save the turtledoves, the pyro jews keep burning down their habitats with their space lasers and we need to fund the space laser protection act for turtledoves.' there would be a problem.
Otherwise, who cares?

[Dan_In_Philly]

Sullum, get on the Ashli Babbitt story.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Traitor Dead.

the end

[Nardz]

Careful what you wish for.

You're working hard to leave Americans with only one option.

[De Oppresso Liber]

You are the one who needs to be careful.

[JesseAz]

Good authoritarian leftist. Figure out who makes the JSF/A-10 yet? A military member would know. You didn't.

[De Oppresso Liber]

pshhhhh. First of all, I did not say that Raytheon made either the a10 or the jsf. Second of all, if you think I have stolen valor, I have given you an easy way to prove it. Your continuing cowardice and dishonesty is noted.

[Ken Shultz]

The progressives justify shooting people because of what they believe, and then they wonder why we call them a bunch of authoritarians.

And, in the same thread, this progressive is going after some representative for the awful things she allegedly said online?

This is why progressives are America's most horrible people.

[De Oppresso Liber]

"The progressives justify shooting people because of what they believe,"

I don't think Nardz is progressive.

[Nardz]

It's not your beliefs, it's your actions

[ThomasD]

Because Sullum and his ilk will always give them a pass.

Both sides only works in one direction.

Totes

[DesigNate]

You’re a piece of shit.

[Mother's Lament]

How many articles has Jacob written condemning Democrats for the insane ranting's of the Squad or Warren or Maxine Waters? But somehow Greene is different and a threat.

What a clownshow this article is.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland]

Unlike Biden who hasn't agree with all of the crazy left beliefs

[mad.casual]

Good point. Greene's a fool for falling for conspiracy theories and clearly inferior to Joe Biden, who rightly recognized AOC's GND as detached buffoonery and rebuked her by writing his own*, slightly less insane version.

*Connotes acceptance of a reality where Biden actually writes anything rather than cribbing the work of a team of DNC-vetted AOC sycophants.

[Overt]

This is absolutely insane. This is a congress critter from the minority party of the house of representatives. On the ranked list of people Libertarians ought to give a fuck about, she is right down below my local Postal Officer.

This concern trolling from Sullum is beyond old. If the Republicans throw off their Trump obsession, he will still criticize them for every decision they make. How about we get back to the fucking ridiculous grab bag of insane policies making their way through congress while the Republicans are busy shooting themselves in the face?

[De Oppresso Liber]

But AOC talking about New Green Deal is good enough for 10,000 word essays every other day from Ken.

Do i detect a double standard!?

[JesseAz]

The GND actually effects every american citizen dummy. This is why you aren't a libertarian. You care more about appearances than substance.

[Ken Shultz]

That you can't tell the difference between somebody tweeting something (if that's what she did) and a public policy change that will negatively impact our standard of living for decades is telling.

Maybe you're having trouble keeping things in proportion because you're really smart, but that's probably not the best explanation.

[Overt]

"But AOC talking about New Green Deal is good enough for 10,000 word essays every other day from Ken."

Are you insane? This chick can believe in QAnnon all she wants and it will mean dick all to your life. But if AOC manages to get anything close to the Green New Deal passed, it will have real, unlibertarian consequences for the country.

The fact that you cannot comprehend this distinction is...pretty bad.

[Ken Shultz]

"The fact that you cannot comprehend this distinction is…pretty bad."

It's embarrassingly bad, but it's also pretty typical.

The reason we'll be in Afghanistan forever may be because so many people were hung up on Trump's tweets--something that didn't matter.

[De Oppresso Liber]

You don't think there are similarly bad or even worse policy implications deriving from the belief in Qanon? Like, say, the belief that there is a massive pedo blood drinking ring that runs the government? Or that the election was stolen, and no amount of evidence can prove otherwise? Which leads to a violent mob attack on our constitutional republic? Like those kind of beliefs?

[DarrenM]

Even if the election was not "stolen", if believing it leads to better election integrity and more transparency, it's still a win.

[damikesc]

"But AOC talking about New Green Deal is good enough for 10,000 word essays every other day from Ken."

Outside of his superior writing, Ken is not a writer for Reason.

And what legislation has she suggested based on her beliefs? AOC has had some.

[JesseAz]

Both sides have their wackos. She was elected. Until she does something illegal her voters should control her fate. Why should reps from other states deny the choice of a locality? Doesn't seem libertarian to me.

In other crazy bitch news.... AOC wasn't in the Capitol building Jan 6th as her office a building next door where the protesters never entered.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/report-aoc-was-not-inside-capitol-building-during-breach-on-jan-6

[Moonrocks]

You mean...she claimed without evidence?

[JesseAz]

But she has evidence Cruz attempted to murder her, I'm sure.

[Moonrocks]

...she claimed without evidence. Wow, this is fun. No wonder the left has been doing this indiscriminately for the last year.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Is that why the bitch went off with a sob story about her being raped?

[Ra's al Gore]

Some people did something on 1/6 and way fewer people died.
Fuck off, Reason.

Rep. Ilhan Omar Describes 9/11 Terror Attacks: ‘Some People Did Something’
https://dailycaller.com/2019/04/09/ilhan-omar-911-cair/

Minnesota Democratic Rep. Ilhan Omar described the September 11, 2001, terror attacks on the United States in a nonspecific way during a recent speech to the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR)

Omar delivered the keynote speech at a fundraiser for CAIR in late March and urged Muslim Americans to “raise hell” and “make people uncomfortable.” In one part of her speech that surfaced on Twitter this week, Omar described the 9/11 attacks in a peculiar way.

“CAIR was founded after 9/11 because they recognized that some people did something, and that all of us were starting to lose access to our civil liberties,” Omar said.

[JesseAz]

Reb Babin has filed a response to MTG with Omar:

https://thefederalist.com/2021/02/03/gop-rep-brian-babin-uses-democratic-standards-to-kick-ilhan-omar-off-foreign-affairs-committee/

[Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland]

Illian Omar and her family needs to be sent back to somolia where they can be raped and murdered like they were suppose to be. Her father ran a Somali gulag until the socialist government got overthrown. Then the retards at the state department thought that was enough for political asylum. There is a reason that cunt thinks she is entitled to everything, and that because her dad was a political elite in a socialist country

[damikesc]

Swalwell should lose ALL of his committee assignments. He surely cannot be trusted,

[De Oppresso Liber]

Trump's moron coup failed. That doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[Uilleam]

"Coup:
1) a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.
2) a notable or successful stroke or move."

Never mind the tedious and dishonest argument that one was attempted by Trump, there was no coup, since it wasn't successful. However, if widespread coordinated voter fraud is indeed a fact, then the Democrats pulled off a very successful coup. See how words work? Moron.

[De Oppresso Liber]

"“Coup:
1) a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.
2) a notable or successful stroke or move.”"

yes, both of those definitions are accurate. I did note that it failed. An attempted coup is still a coup attempt.

Why do you guys always rush in to prove me right?

[Mother's Lament]

De Oppresso Liber
January.19.2021 at 8:07 pm
R Mac, are you stupid? Or just disingenuous? Mother is on my do not reply list since she went full anti-Semite.

I have never said anything remotely antisemitic or racist, you lying fuck. I want an apology.

[DarrenM]

It turns out even the police officer that died was not hit in the head with a fire extinguisher. The autopsy showed no blunt force trauma. It's still a mystery to investigators what caused him to collapse. They had started out to arrest someone for murder and it all fell apart.

[Larvell Blanks]

There are all sorts of good faith reasons, other than "blind loyalty to Trump," not to go along with the Democrats' ultimatum about removing her from committee assignments (which is different from whether the GOP leadership should have assigned her to these committees in the first place). Whatever her wacky views, she was elected by her constituents and is just one of 435 members of the House, with no real ability to affect legislation by herself, and even less as a junior member of the minority party. There is a long history of bizarre characters in Congress, and I doubt the Democrats intend to adopt a neutral rule that people with wacky views should be kicked off committees or expelled from Congress; certainly it would be unwise to have such a rule only applied to members of the minority party (or more likely only applied to Republicans). So there is a principle involved: the right of the minority to appoint their own members to committees without asking for permission from the majority. And clearly, the Democrats think all Republicans are basically the same as MTG, just maybe more subtle about it, and they want to use their ultimatum as a way to score partisan points. They aren't worried about what MTG might be able to do as a committee member, they are giddy that they have the chance to paint her as the face of the GOP. And although the GOP leadership would be wise to make a point of shunning her, to do so in response to a Democratic ultimatum sends a signal that they can be pushed around (which is undoubtedly why the Democrats are proceeding this way). Everything is not about "loyalty to Trump," and it's cheap theater to pretend that it is.

[De Oppresso Liber]

If it's not about loyalty to Trump, then why the farce of arguing that it is not constitutional to impeach a president after office? There is no legal precedent or law that supports that argument. It is nakedly partisan, and nothing else. So, why, if not for Trump?

[Larvell Blanks]

I mean, I can explain it to you, but I can't comprehend it for you.
And sure, go ahead and tell yourself how Mitch McConnell is blindly loyal to Trump.

[Libertymike]

Except there is no language in the constitution authorizing a Senate trial on an impeachment after the target has left office.

[DarrenM]

I don't think this matters. It may or may not be declared unconstitutional, but that would be months after the trial. What matters to Democrats is the circus vote itself. It will just be more political theater with the goal being to get more Democrats elected in 2022.

[JesseAz]

then why the farce of arguing that it is not constitutional to impeach a president after office?

Why ignore constitutional questions when Democrats do it!

There is no legal precedent or law that supports that argument.

It is a constitutional argument, not legal!

It is nakedly partisan, and nothing else.

Agreed, you democrats are openly partisan!

[chemjeff radical individualist]

SO MUCH WHATABOUTISM

[JesseAz]

You really don't understand what whataboutism actually is. You use it to deny your own positions and hypocrisy. Such as with the riots. You dont want your hypocrisy pointed out to you.

Your fat cries are hilarious and hypocritical. Hippocritical even.

[De Oppresso Liber]

"It is a constitutional argument, not legal!"

dum dum-dum dum dum-dum

[Jerryskids]

I have a theory that Sullum retired, died, or is otherwise incapacitated and the other writers at Reason are taking turns writing these articles, each trying to out-troll the last. There's no way all this output can be ascribed to one man, and no way it can be ascribed to a rational person.

[mad.casual]

I repeat my previous assertion that the articles are actually written by Chinese bots and that the bevvy of Reason editors exist only to proof copy and provide a by line as cover.

[Union of Concerned Socks]

So, Koch sold Reason to the Chinese to raise cash?

Everything I've read here the last few years is starting to make sense now.

[Brandybuck]

The direction the Republican Party is heading is deeply disturbing. But it's only a symptom of a deeper problem. David French hits the nail on the head: The shame/honor culture of the deep south has infected evangelicalism, and from there the Republican party.

Defending Trump is not about ideology, or ideas, or policy, or logic, or anything like that. Trump is seen as the leader of the tribe, and must be defended at all costs. Honor culture demands that he save face. Losing an election is intolerable. Thus he did not lose the election.

Cheney is seen as a traitor because she did not stick up for Trump, and thus did not stick up for her tribe (both Republican Party and Christianity in general, and by extension is an enemy of God). As a traitor there will be some who genuinely believe she should be executed. Disgusting.

Greene is on the opposite side, in full accord with the honor culture. But her craziness is embarrassing the party. Her crazy beliefs are unfortunately common, however. Ugh.

The big problem with honor culture is that it is... collectivist, to use a Randian term. It's all about the group and the emphasis of the group. Individuals are subordinate to the group. An individual can shame the family, shame the group, shame the leader. Trump cannot sin because that brings shame to the group, thus he is shameless. In both senses of the word. To recognize his sins or failures is to cast shame on Trump and thus on the whole tribe.

It's the driving force on the Right for the radical polarization in the country. The Left has the driving a different kind of collectivism, but the sins of the Left do not excuse the sins of the Right.

[JesseAz]

LOL. Wait, I think you were actually serious.

The shame/honor culture of the deep south has infected evangelicalism

LOL.

[Libertymike]

Tucker Carlson's take on Greene is far healthier.

Those who make a fuss over her should be mocked.

Its as though some can't see that deep state military industrial complex national security national surveillance John McCain loving neo-Cohens like Cheney have done far more harm to economic and individual liberty than Ms. Greene.

[Uilleam]

Absolute nonsense.

[Ken Shultz]

Cheney hated Trump because she's a neocon, and she wanted to invade Syria. Cheney's ouster is an indication that the Republican establishment is moving/has moved away from the neoconservatism of the Bush Jr. years to the pragmatism of the Weinberger-Powell doctrine the neoconservatives hated so much. If you're citing this to support radicalization, you're nuts.

"She held several positions in the U.S. State Department during the George W. Bush administration, notably as the Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of State For Near Eastern Affairs and head of the Iran Syria Policy and Operations Group that worked for regime change in Iran . . . . Regarded as a leading conservative in the Bush-era tradition and a representative of the Republican establishment,[6] Cheney is known for her focus on national security, support for the U.S. military and hawkish foreign policy views, and for being fiscally and socially conservative. She was critical of the foreign policy of the former Trump administration[7][8][9][10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liz_Cheney

Looks like Cheney wasn't known for much of anything but warmongering. Let's hope she trips on her way out the door.

[Ken Shultz]

P.S. The chances of her winning the primaries in Wyoming (the most Republican state in the country) after this are pretty slim. She committed political suicide--even if she didn't realize she was doing it. Maybe it's better to say that she thought she was leading the charge of the Republican establishment, but she was really jumping off a cliff by herself.

[ThomasD]

She didn't realize what she was doing because she's only 'from' Wyoming, not actually from Wyoming.

[DarrenM]

It was pretty obvious that any Republicans voting for that quicky impeachment were committing political suicide. That those Republicans who voted for it didn't see this suggests they aren't really cut out for those jobs anyway.

[Fkthepostoffice]

The kangaroo court doesn't often sit too well. Those Republicans would have been in a far better place had they voted the same exact way only after demanding an impeachment process with things like, witnesses, evidence, defense cross examination or even a discernable process rather than whatever that thing was they pulled off in about 5 hours of congressional CalvinBall.

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

Warmongering is the family business.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I cannot say much about the Christian evangelical movement, but insofar as your comment applies to the greater right-wing movement, I think you are right. Just look at the comments here. Which of the usual right-wing suspects is saying *anything* negative about MTG and her wacko nutball beliefs? They are certainly not going to castigate one of their own tribal members in public. That is just not done. It brings dishonor to the tribe.

[JesseAz]

The people you call right wing all called her nuts you fat lying shit. They merely pointed out both sides have it. The only defense of her at all is saying her disticy voters should control her position as a rep.

God damn youre a fat lying shit.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Read above, Jesse. Who exactly is calling her nuts again? As of now, 2 or 3 people have called her "wacky". Just about everything else is some form of whataboutism or another.

The only defense of her at all is saying her disticy voters should control her position as a rep.

Bullshit. That is not evidenced by the comments above.

[damikesc]

I've not seen comments about AOC from you. Why is that?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

WHATABOUTAOC

[damikesc]

"David French hits the nail on the head"

David French is a moron who has a hard-on for killing dark-skinned folks. Fuck him.

[Fkthepostoffice]

Up in arms to defend Neocon, stay in Syria, every war is a good war Cheney is peak "libertarian".

[Jerry B.]

Sullum's TDS knows no bounds.

[Ra's al Gore]

https://twitter.com/alexbruesewitz/status/1357033229526695938

Has
@mtgreenee
said some questionable things YEARS before running for Congress?

Sure.

But Eric Swalwell literally slept with a Chinese spy while in Congress and he faced NO backlash. In fact, he was promoted!

Spare us the sanctimony!

[Libertymike]

Did Jacob ever write anything about the late Jim Trafficant?

[mulched]

Beam me up. I miss that dude on C-Span.

[misthiocracy]

Is there precedent for representatives being removed from their committee assignments solely on the basis of constitutionally-protected speech uttered outside the House?

This is a serious question. Has this ever been done in the past? I've tried googling the question but I've not found the answer.

The best I could find was the list of representatives who were censured or reprimanded by the House, and none of them were censured or punished for constitutionally-protected speech uttered outside the House.

https://history.house.gov/Institution/Discipline/Expulsion-Censure-Reprimand/#censure

[Moonrocks]

There was that other Republican (of course) that was removed from his committee assignments a couple of years ago because the New York Times claimed, without evidence, that he said white supremacy was a good thing.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

So much whataboutism in the comments. That is about as close to an admission of the truth about MTG as we are ever going to get here in these comments, from the usual rightwing suspects.

MTG is a wacko nutball who doesn't belong anywhere near the levers of power, and that remains true regardless of what Maxine Waters or Ilhan Omar ever said about anything. It is telling that the usual rightwingers around here cannot bring themselves to utter such a basic truth.

That being said, that she doesn't belong near the levers of power doesn't necessarily mean that she should be forcibly removed from the levers of power. The voters in her district, in their infinite wisdom, decided that they wanted a lady who believed in Jewish space lasers starting California wildfires representing them in Congress. Believing in crazy things shouldn't be enough of a reason to take away committee assignments.

[Jose Ortega y Gasset returns]

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." H.L. Mencken

[JesseAz]

Lol. God dam. Youre lying a broken record. You cry whataboutism to avoid the truth of your hippocampus.

Can you even say the left has crazy people too?

Your authoritarian ass wants a duly elected person to be what, thrown out because you think her electors chose wrong?

[JesseAz]

Hippocracy. Stupid AC hasn't learn the new jeff insult yet.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Can you even say the left has crazy people too?

WHATABOUTTHELEFT????? HUH?????????????

How hard is it for you to say, Jesse, that MTG is a wackadoole nutbar who does not deserve to be anywhere near the levers of power, INDEPENDENT of what anyone on the left says on any subject whatsoever? Huh?

This is why you are such a moron. You literally cannot think beyond tribal warfare. If someone on "your tribe" is a wackadoodle nutbar, then TIME TO BRING OUT THE WHATABOUTISM

[DarrenM]

Possibly almost as hard as it is for you to say AOC or anyone else with a D after their name is a wackadoole nutbar who does not deserve to be anywhere near the levers of power,

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Don't you have an double extra large pizza and 2-liter Mountain Dew to shove down your gullet, you future diabetes casualty?

[Fkthepostoffice]

Whataboutism is short hand for "please don't bring up my hypocrisy". If we're going to discuss the process for punishing MTGs comments, isn't it fair to ask a few probing questions about precedent, like "what did they do to people who made similarly distasteful comments in the past" and "do these rules only apply to one party?" Is there room here to say MTG should suffer her fate and, as a standard, people who said similar stuff should suffer a similar fate? Is the rule going to be that the first amendment is respected and nobody gets punished ever for speech, or that distasteful but 1A lawful speech can still get you censured. Im fine with one or the other, but a "lil o this, lil of that' and "don't bring it up when it's not a Republican" is a bad standard and you know it.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

The Georgia representative has embraced nearly every crazy conspiracy theory that is popular on the right.

Now let's count how many representatives have embraced socialism. That's the dangerous conspiracy theory. It killed 100 million people las century, continues killing right now.

[Ron]

The Georgia representative has embraced nearly every crazy conspiracy theory that is popular on the right.
has she embraced or did she just click like on a social media website. i've clicked like on memes that proclaim things i don't believe like ancient aliens controlling everything. I use to listen to art Bell but that didn't mean I believe any of his callers. some of us have broad enough mines to listen to other ideas. Heck my step dad was a very smart person but didn't believe in dinasours but did believe the face on mars was alien. it takes all kinds

[Moderation4ever]

I think the fact that Republicans are lining up behind Marjorie Taylor Greene and turning their backs on Liz Cheney shows that the Party has lost its marbles. While the Democrats fight is between the left and middle, the Republics fight is between the loony and the sane. Give me the old days when the fight was between Goldwater and Rockefeller.

[JesseAz]

Nobody is lining up behind MTG. Saying she was elected and shouldn't be removed is not lining up behind her. It is respecting her voters. Or do you think we should kick everyone out of office that believed (and still do) trump/russia?

[Moderation4ever]

I think the Republicans should treat Liz Cheney better than they have. I don't MTG should be booted, but I would put distance between her and the Party.

[damikesc]

The GOP would be quite wise to abide by the opinions of a concern troll.

[Fkthepostoffice]

Why should the GOP embrace a Neocon that opposes all efforts to leave wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria? Isn't the neoconism bullshit that leads to thousands of deaths in pointless, decades-long and costly wars a little bit more of a problem than MTG believing Alex Jones level conspiracy theories? Your sense of priority here, not to mention your baseless claim that the GOP is lining up to support MTG, just reads like the assembled scraps off the cutting room floor of some lazy CNN think-piece.

[JeremyR]

Liz Cheney is basically a slightly more masculine Mitt Romney.

[Moderation4ever]

Yes and both are a better face for Republicans that MTG.

[Moderation4ever]

As a follow-up, Liz Cheney in a secret ballot retained her position in leadership. Which says that Republicans have more sense in private than they do in public.

[I, Woodchipper]

So what?

What's her position on bombing Syria?
What's her position on drug legalization?
What's her position on tax and spend?
What's her position on mass surveillance?

Those are other things are what matters. who cares if she believes the moon is flat?

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

Thank you. That is correct.

[Fkthepostoffice]

Good point. Anyone who in the same day votes to censure (albeit crazy) free speech and then votes to bomb syria and permit warrantless mass surveillance, has no credible point to make to me about speech about public safety and protecting people, or whatever other precious norms they think MTGs years old memes and shit posts violated.

[jjc]

Two Reason Headlines:

"Choice Between Blind Loyalty to Trump and a Basic Respect for Reality"

"No, Biden Can't Save Us With a 'Reality Czar.'"

Reality is in the eye of the beholder at Reason, I guess.

[Tom Dial]

For what it's worth, I am on Liz Cheney's side in her fight.

On the other hand, the voters of Georgia's 14th congressional district gave MTG a majority of their votes last November, and we should, accordingly, be very careful about either removing her from the Congress or stripping her of committee memberships. Either one impugns her presumably valid election and denies to the people of her district the representation they chose and, as HL Mencken put it, deserve to get good and hard.

[Carter Mitchell]

"The Georgia representative has embraced nearly every crazy conspiracy theory that is popular on the right."

Theory - a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena.

So, why don't all of the crazed libs - and Reason writers - denounce other theories. A theory is an explanation which is then supposed to be tested against evidence.

Uttering the phrase "conspiracy theory" is supposed to shut down debate and inquiry?

And are you same crazed libs/socialists/communists/name your flavor of authoritarianism asserting that conspiracies simply don't happen? Or that only "right-wing" conspiracies are real?

[buckleup]

I was thinking Sullum might just give up on this line of thinking once Trump is out of office, but now it's just obvious he's a far left progtard milking it for all it's worth.

[damikesc]

How many Reason writers professed that Kavanaugh's accusers were "extremely credible"? Should you lose your jobs for being such idiots?

[Lee Williams]

Check out the snout on this Greene woman! It rivals that of Wonder Warthog! She's a monster!

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Hi Mary!

[M.V. Flores]

ASKING THE QUESTIONS NO ONE WILL ASK ABOUT Q ANON
But I will.
Q Anon started in the late 90's in Italy.
It was destroyed when it was discovered it was a left wing art plot to embarrass conservatives and make them look bad. Completely discredited.
So years later, how did it get here?
I am supposed to believe that people invading the government building who did not have the sense to wear masks as Antifa does, created an anonymous protest movement using the exact same discredited ideas from Italy years before? And the same name? All randomly?
Right. Sorry. Not buying it. I would like to know which Intel agency set this up. Or if it was the DNC. One of my first encounters with this kind of operation was way back in the Vietnam protest days. SDS did not allow people to burn flags (which was illegal then and very insulting to Vietnam Vets who marched with us) or throw rocks at windows like BLM does. So I see a guy standing in front of the press setting a flag on fire. I ran over and punched him as hard as I could and he went down. Suddenly three cops grabbed me and dragged me off. I was standing in front of a plain clothed man and one cop said, "We got him! He just hit a cop. This SDSer is going to prison". The man said, "You idiot you just exposed an undercover cop", and he told me to get the fuck away. This was in the Democratic city of Chicago. So do I believe either Democrats or Intel would set people up to make them look stupid? YOU BET! THE GUY I HIT TRYING TO BURN THE FLAG WAS AN UNDERCOVER COP!
My girlfriend lives in Italy ( the last 10 months I now know how prisoners and soldiers feel ) and when I told her about Q Anon she broke into laughter and said that started in Italy in the late 90's and has been completely discredited there.

So I started looking for articles about Q Anon being a front to discredit and make conservatives look dumb ( and incite people to riot as we saw at the Capitol) and- BINGO. Found it. Here's what you need to know:
Is the QAnon Conspiracy the Work of Artist-Activist Pranksters?
The history of "Luther Blissett," the Italian media jamming movement, is suddenly relevant to the US political discussion.

https://news.artnet.com/opinion/q-anon-hoax-1329983

[Lee Williams]

Maybe it is a set up by the Left. And now millions of idiot conservatives have joined, because the stupidity it espouses matches the stupidity of your dumber members. You're stuck with them. They're your conservative base, Donald Trump's base. Good luck with that, sucker.

[Cal Cetín]

OK, fine, punish Greene by forcing her to change her registration to Democrat. Her madness wouldn't be so noticeable then.

[Lee Williams]

Ah pizzoff, ya blighter!

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Or else what, Mary?

[Brian]

Life's more fun when you entertain crazy shit.

[emain_aka]

i am totly confuse but..READ MORE

[IceTrey]

"depicting her political opponents as traitors, child molesters, Nazi collaborators, and murderers."
So she's a closet Dem.

[JeremyR]

This would be more convincing if Reason had run stories criticizing the anti-Semites in the Democratic party (of which there's no small list)

[Tony]

Stop whining and have a good idea for Christ's sake.

[Natural Born Deplorable]

Just reading the title I knew that shit-for-brains Jacob was the author. Ilhan Omar or any Democrat can encourage violence (Pelosi, Waters, Schumer, Booker, Pressley ....) but if a Republican is involved it boils down to loyality to Trump or she has to go.

[dan1650]

If anyone has seen why the left is up in arms over Rep. Greene the reality doesn't quite fit the hysteria. Liking a post of Facebook is not quite supporting or advocating for something. The propaganda and hysteria really gained steam when she wrote about the connections in California of oligarchs and politicians and connections to PG&E. Her anti-Semitic post doesn't even have the word Jew in it. The beams from outer space is a jab at PG&E investing in Solaren and the failed rail service by Brown. I thought it was a bit of sarcasm not a claim of fact.
If anyone ridicules the left or opposes them they are immediately discredited and even their sanity is questioned.
This article saying " The Georgia representative has embraced nearly every crazy conspiracy theory that is popular on the right." implies anyone on the right of the left is a bit looney. With the left's conspiracy theory of Qanon which most normal people on the right had never heard of until the left promoted it and the rest of their drivel you never hear any Conservatives even discuss you would think half the country are members of Qanon. In reality Qanon is world wide and more like a social group with a large majority not even knowing about pizzagate or other foolish claims by the left.
If a man can become a girl just by saying so and claiming systemic racism in America when we have had a black President and VP or killing a developing human who is unique and will never be duplicated again is not killing a human is not considered crazy why should Qanon?

[CuddlyumpkinsEpihpany1]

OK, I can’t subscribe to all of the theories of conspiracy that she aligns with but I beg of you to show me ONE picture of a plane crash at the pentagon. Or ONE picture of a plane crash in Pennsylvania. Or explain to me how THREE buildings in New York City, in this physical world can collapse at FREE-FALL speed without being rigged to do so. https://www.c-span.org/video/?320748-5/washington-journal-architects-engineers-911-truth

[Tony]

They can't if you don't fly a fully-fueled jet at them.

Guess it'll always be a mystery.

[Liberty Lover]

What about Reason's blind loyalty to Biden?
40 royal decrees in a little more than a week.
Violating their own rules, like masks.
Promising transparency but no visitor logs for physical or virtual.
Banning certain words.
Destroying jobs and the economy.
Abetting our enemies by giving them money.
Breaki campaign promies one after another.
But hey. Reason bashes Trump, who is gone.