Politics

The 2020 Election Was a Rebuke of Socialism

The s-word doesn't actually play too well with most voters.

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Two days after the 2020 election, which saw Democrats capture the White House while losing ground in Congress, House Democrats held a conference call to discuss what went wrong. Rep. Abigail Spanberger (D–Va.) was unequivocal: "We need to not ever use the words socialist or socialism ever again," she said.

Indeed, socialism was something of a political loser this election cycle. The specter of it likely cost Joe Biden his chance at winning Florida. It appears President Donald Trump won over many Latinos in the state with targeted ads tying the Democratic Party to left-wing authoritarianism in Latin America. And while voters reelected all four members of the socialism-friendly "squad"—Reps. Ayanna Pressley (D–Mass.), Ilhan Omar (D–Minn.), Rashida Tlaib (D–Mich.), and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D–N.Y.)—the consensus among the party's leadership seems to be that the s-word is toxic outside of heavily left-leaning districts.

Rep. James Clyburn (D–S.C.), the House's third-ranking Democrat, urged members not to run on "Medicare for All or socialized medicine" in the future. Even some progressive Democrats echoed these concerns. "I think Republicans did get some traction trying to scare people on this socialist narrative," said Rep. Jared Huffman (D–Calif.), a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. "What's the point of embracing a phrase like that?"

Flirting with socialism may have cost Democrats dearly. If Republicans win either of the two runoff Senate races in Georgia, President-elect Joe Biden will face a GOP-controlled Senate. That would mean Republicans could block virtually all of the structural changes that progressives were counting on in order to consolidate power, such as D.C. statehood, an expansion of the Supreme Court, and nuking the filibuster. The Senate can also kill off lofty legislative proposals, vote down Biden's judicial picks, and thwart liberal Cabinet nominees. "The Biden presidency will be doomed to failure before it starts," fretted New York magazine's Eric Levitz.

For democratic socialists, the 2020 election cycle began with great promise: The hard left had not one but two progressive primary candidates, Sens. Elizabeth Warren (D–Mass.) and Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.). But neither Warren nor Sanders could overcome Biden, the Democratic candidate who worked hardest during the primaries to put serious distance between himself and socialism.

Democratic socialists thought they were riding a blue wave. Instead they gave us divided government. That's not what they intended, but it might be the best possible outcome.

NEXT: Brickbat: A Real Caste System

Politics Election 2020 Socialism

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344 responses to “The 2020 Election Was a Rebuke of Socialism

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  2. You’re an idiot Soave

    1. You’re an idiot to turn down free money from the government!
      Workers and non-workers of the world, unite!

      1. Free money isn’t real socialism.

        1. “Close enough for government work” – Democrats

      2. It’s money we’ve borrowed from ourselves.
        So how does it help to be in more debt, exactly?

        1. We print more money like AOC suggested, dummy!

          1. Bring back the trillion dollar coin!
            SleepyJoe

            1. We’re gonna need a few more coins…

    2. If Robby has read Politics and the English language, he doesn’t seem to have understood it.

      Many political words are similarly abused. The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies ‘something not desirable’. The words democracy, socialism, freedom, patriotic, realistic, justice have each of them several different meanings which cannot be reconciled with one another. In the case of a word like democracy, not only is there no agreed definition, but the attempt to make one is resisted from all sides. It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it: consequently the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using that word if it were tied down to any one meaning. Words of this kind are often used in a consciously dishonest way. That is, the person who uses them has his own private definition, but allows his hearer to think he means something quite different.

      The real meaning of socialism is clear from the history of its use by the Soviets, the CCP, the NorKs, and the other governments which presided over the death of 100 million of their own citizens in the last century. It means ignoring the will of the people in the creation of a narrative driven, surveillance-heavy, centrally planned economy to be looted by unelected bureaucrats until it inevitably fails. It is exactly what the Ds are doing regardless of what they call it.

      1. Or just go with Newspeak.

        1. Then again, maybe Robby hasn’t read 1984 either.

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  3. This article didn’t age well. The left now has no restrictions outside of maybe the SC. Some Democrats might have noticed that the word “socialism” doesn’t play well with the electorate, but they are still all-in on ramming left-wing authoritarianism down our throats.
    It’s also stupid to continue calling Biden a moderate or to declare that he won because of it. He is authoritarian and plans to wield the big government hammer at everything. Also, he won the Democrat primary because leadership rigged it with timely dropouts and a complicit media controlling the narrative.

    1. Pure idiocy.

      Democrats “rigged” nothing. You and Bernie people believe that bullshit CT.

      Biden only started winning when the other moderates dropped out after South Carolina. They all opposed Medicare For All and after they all dropped out that left Bernie and Lizzie on the left. Biden was so ordinary that it took clearing the field of the other centrists for him to overtake the leftists.

      You and Ken Schultz must read the same bullshit site Wingnut.com to get your false narratives.

      1. Man. Biden cultists have really bought into the media narrative. GND isn’t centrist. Public option isn’t centrist. 20 million amnesty is not centrist.

        1. Biden loudly opposed AOC’s Green New Deal. Quit lying.

          And the public option is to the right of veterans health care and far less expensive.

          And if 20 million illegals gaining amnesty is radical commie then Reagan was a radical communist.

          1. Are you serious? His version of the Green New Deal is his top priority. He’s always talking about it.

            And his version doesn’t differ from hers by anything measurable. Hydrocarbons out, renewable in.

            One of his first actions as President is going to be cancelling a big pipeline permit.

            1. Bullshit.

              Biden’s plan is $2 trillion according to Forbes:

              https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertbryce/2020/07/14/joe-bidens-2-trillion-energy-plan-ignores-cost-land-use-conflicts/?sh=41c1b8ac4336

              To be clear, parts of Biden’s energy plan are sensible. It does not include a ban on hydraulic fracturing, the process used to extract oil and natural gas from dense rock formations. Further, it says that the U.S. should continue to “leverage” existing “sources like nuclear and hydropower.” It also calls for efforts to develop advanced nuclear reactors that are “smaller, safer, and more efficient” than current models. But it’s also clear that a massive increase in renewable energy is a central part of Biden’s plan.

              Before going further, let me state the obvious: $2 trillion is a lot of money and Biden plans to spend that sum in just four years. For reference, annual domestic electricity sales total about $400 billion per year. Thus, Biden’s plan calls for expenditures equal to five times the amount that consumers and industry are now spending annually on electricity.

              Less than Trump blew on Round One of his Trump Welfare for Flu Plan of 2020.

              And far less than the $90 trillion AOC proposed and was rightly ridiculed for.

              You’re as misinformed as Ken Schultz.

              1. , Biden has called for banning new permits for oil and gas projects on federal lands and waters. The move would be stronger than efforts by Obama, who tried to require companies operating on federal lands to disclose which chemicals they use in the fracking process and regulate their wastewater disposal.

                He won’t ban it, he will just kill it on all federal land, which is a large percentage of the fracking areas.

                https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/whats-next-fracking-under-biden

                Man, Biden Cultists refuse to believe the candidates actual words.

                He is killing Keystone Pipeline day 1 per his own press team.

                  1. Butt plug will have the most shocked face when he up against the wall.

              2. You’re wrong. Biden is starting the GND. The damn thing was never going to happen in 2 or 4 years anyway. And yeah he’s dropped all the farting cows and no flying idiocy.

                But he’s still gonna fuck up the electric grid, and that’s the main issue. And he’ll force reliance on unworkable technology.

                Tomato, tomato.

                1. That’s not AOC’s Green New Deal. Trump style repeated lying doesn’t work here.

                  1. Man you cultists are delusional.

                  2. Repeated Trump style lying? WTF.

                    A difference of opinion is lying? Look, Biden is starting the Green New Deal. He’s phasing out “polluting” forms for “green” forms of energy. That’s the core of the GND. The forms of energy that are out in Biden’s plan are out in the GND, same with the forms that are in for both.

              3. 2 trillion dollars used to be considered a lot of money. Under Obama it was 50% of the federal budget. Under Clinton it was 100%.

              4. Goddamn you’re a fucking idiot. None of the other dem shills should ever bother posting here, you beat their idiocy every single time.

                1. Fuck off liar. Biden is a boring centrist. Bratfart is over there.

                  1. Hahahahaha, god you’re so stupid and unoriginal that you just automatically assume anyone who points out your idiocy reads Breitbart or Fox.

                    1. And thinks he’s clever with Bratfart.

          2. How many times do I have to quote Biden’s literal presidential website?

            https://joebiden.com/climate-plan/

            Biden believes the Green New Deal is a crucial framework for meeting the climate challenges we face. It powerfully captures two basic truths, which are at the core of his plan: (1) the United States urgently needs to embrace greater ambition on an epic scale to meet the scope of this challenge, and (2) our environment and our economy are completely and totally connected.

            I have literally posted this for you multiple times. Are you dumb, dishonest, what?

            1. Not the AOC GND.

              And $2 trillion is less than Trump Flu Welfare you support.

              1. Have you ever met a true scotsman?

                1. If it ain’t AOC’s GND, it ain’t the GND!

          3. Biden said last week he would take immediate action on the 4 major crises facing America. Climate change was one of them. He plans to spend 2 trillion fighting the weather.

            1. If we can create the problem we can certainly solve it!
              -Sleepy

          4. VA care for all, we’re saved.

      2. Not that you’re worth responding to, but I actually read Reason and mainstream left-wing news. What’s interesting is that sprinkled through their lies they accidentally tell inconvenient truths we are supposed to remember. If you couldn’t see collusion in the timing of when candidates dropped out and how that helped Biden’s non-existent campaign then you weren’t paying attention. If you are paying attention now then you will see how those other candidates are being paid for doing so.
        If your types had a memory longer than 2 seconds and an ability to understand more than “the narrative” then you’d see that there are inconvenient truths constantly being gaslighted out of existence by most media companies. When I do visit right-wing media they are far more balanced and present information (with evidence) that is hidden by most news outlets (as evidence, any of the claims of corruption and sexual impropriety from Biden). I know it’s easier to discredit people who are better informed than you as FOX drones, but frankly it’s not somewhere I go to and I’d suspect neither do the so-called “trumpists” in the comment section here

        1. Given that modern Democratic primary voters are about 2/3 centrist and 1/3 far left/progressive it is hardly surprising that Biden won by roughly that same ratio just like Obama, Carter and both Clintons did over their far left primary rivals.

          Do I believe history or some CT cooked up by a news site you visited once?

          1. Just because someone declare themselves centrist it doesn’t make them centrist.

          2. Can’t wait for the rush of executive orders on DAY ONE!

          3. Biden won the nomination because Warren and Sanders split the socialist vote. I wonder what the DNC will give Warren as a reward? VP slot when Harris takes over?

            1. True. Tell the Peanut Gallery that.

      3. Biden only started winning when TWO PEOPLE AHEAD OF HIM DROPPED OUT AND ENDORSED HIM BEFORE SUPER TUESDAY.

        To some of us, that’s a little fishy.

        1. Dropping out is routine. And of course they endorsed a fellow moderate.

          Trump CT has rotted your brain.

          1. Dropping out when you’re winning is not routine idiot.

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  6. So what if the voters said they don’t want socialism? What’s that got to do with anything?

    1. Words don’t mean anything anymore. The left will call it whatever polls best. But I damn sure see people asking where their 2000 checks are.

      1. I mean robbie actually quotes the relevant part:

        “We need to not ever use the words socialist or socialism ever again,” she said.

        She didn’t say not to pass socialist policies. She said just don’t use the words. Robbie is naive.

      2. “We will finish the job of getting a total of $2,000 in cash relief to people who need it the most,” Biden said on Thursday. “The $600 already appropriated is simply not enough.”

        1. Know who else wanted it to be $2000. Your hero, Trump.

          1. Except I never supported Trump in that sweetie. I have been against every give away and every unemployment boost.

            Want to try a different argument here?

            1. Dee continues to suffer from cognitive dissonance anytime anyone in the Trump CULT! disagrees with him. Her mind simply cannot process such information.

              Or she’s just being dishonest.

          2. Trump knew that he needed to out bribe the Democrats with the bureaucrats or the election would be stolen.

            Trump didnt kick in enough money, so El Presidente Biden was crowned.

          3. Don’t try to compete with Shriek’s idiocy, you’ll lose every time.

      3. “Words don’t mean anything anymore.”

        That’s rich coming from one of the biggest fudgers of truth I’ve ever encountered.

        1. Were you looking into a mirror while you typed that? Be honest.

          1. She cant

        2. Here’s Dee defending left wing socialists. But she’s not left wing folks!

    2. The voters that matter want socialism.

      1. NOT REALLY — They could get their socialism tomorrow if they really wanted it. They want the POWER to dictate socialism. Otherwise they wouldn’t be trying to STICK it into the FEDERAL government.

        It’s a bunch of insignificants trying to feel significant by “bullying” ‘those’ people with their envisioned significant “PLANS”. Same filth everyone met on the playground just older.

  7. President-elect Joe Biden will rescind the cross-border permit for TC Energy’s Keystone XL pipeline on his first day in office, three sources confirm to POLITICO.

    The move is billed as one of Biden’s Day One climate change actions, according to a presentation circulating among Washington trade groups and lobbyists, a portion of which was seen by POLITICO.

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    2. You didn’t build that pipeline!

    3. Which will mean the fuel that would have been transported by the pipeline will be transported in more energy intensve, less safe ways such as by truck or train. This is not a “climate change” policy, this is knee jerk hatred of fossil fuel infrastructure.

      1. I may buy some train stocks again. BNSF will profit greatly from this. Every fuel user will pay.

      2. Warren Buffett (Jimmy Buffett’s brother) loves his train collection.

  8. I agree that the word “socialism” cost the Democrats some seats in Congress and Statehouses around the country. But socialist policy themselves are very popular. The Republicans were successful in linking socialism with Cuba and Venezuela, while some Democrats failed in linking it to north European countries like Denmark and Sweden. I don’t think this election shows a repudiation of socialism as much as one side’s success and the other’s failure in branding.

    1. Free cars also poll well. People poll worse when you tell them the cost of it.

      Same with social programs. They all sound good until you tell the taxpayers their taxes will go up. Which is why you and your fellow leftists always lie about who pays.

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      2. As long as other people pay.

      3. ^Perfectly Stated; It’s all about the Power to Steal.

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    2. Just as Biden and the major networks redefined ‘packing the court’ to mean appointing justices, not expanding the numbers as the term was understood for eighty years, they will redefine their actions as Progressive and actually anti-socialist. Of course, those actions would have been seen as socialist as recently as 2020, but not under the new definitions.
      By the way, what do you suppose the “S” in NSDAP stood for?

      1. Back then, socialism had more traction with the electorate (as did communism). We should now know better. Almost without exception, what is being proposed (and how we are governed) is classic economic definition fascism. That word still polls very poorly with the electorate , if you can make it stick to the ill-liberal, reactionary policies sure to be pushed forward in the next four years.

      2. We already have a pro-fascism movement that calls itself ‘antifa’.

        1. The Proud Boys are white supremacists because of ‘multi-racial whiteness’ now.

    3. Because Denmark and Sweden arc capitalist countries.

      There is no redeeming quality in socialism. Not one.

      1. Yet you literally defended Biden’s GND above.

        1. I know you hate Hayek and other classic liberals but he said that banning pollution was an acceptable use of government force.

          1. First, define pollution. I’ll wait.

            Second, cheap energy has done more to lift mankind out of poverty than any other single thing in history.

            1. Still waiting.

          2. So the government should be able to ban us from breathing because we release CO2 in the process?

            1. Just wait.

            2. Not ban, just common sense breath control.

          3. Carbon dioxide is t fucking pollution, no matter how much you torture the language.

          4. No he didn’t.

            He talked about how it’s appropriate to use government to manage Pigou taxes for negative externalities.

      2. All countries with modern economy use a blend of capitalism and socialism. With some part of the economy held in common and with safety nets programs. Countries like Denmark and Sweden are capitalist, but provide robust services for which they tax citizens.

        Socialism this has been included in our economy since the beginning of our nation. Early cities set aside common areas of land for citizens. Visit old cities in the country and you will see neighborhoods build around town squares. The inclusion of common has increased as the nations has grown, including National park, an interstate highway system, airports, etc. We also have socialist programs like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. These are popular programs and are not seen as socialist (even if they are). All this leads me to conclude that socialism is more popular, but is not like as a brand.

        Again the question is not capitalism vs socialism, but what blend of these systems do you want.

        1. It’s not a matter of what we want, it’s all about what we are going to get.

        2. Denmark and Sweden have large social safety nets, and offer a lot of free or low-cost services that are subsidized by the government through high taxes. They are also relatively small, and – up until recently – very homogeneous populations. When I lived in Denmark, out of the 6 million people there, approximately 5.75 million were ethnic Danes who spoke Danish as their primary language (96%).

          People have innate biases towards members of their perceived ‘in-group’, no matter how much we try not to. We are typically willing to give more benefit of the doubt to people we relate to better. It makes it easier to sympathize with them, compared to people we perceive to be outside of that group. Social welfare plans are generally more popular and successful in small, homogeneous groups than they are in large, diverse ones, in part because of this.

          These days, the percentage of Danes in Denmark is down to about 85%, and from what I hear, public support for robust social welfare programs has gone down with it.

          P.S. The Danes also have an official state church that receives official state funding from their officially high taxes. State-mandated tithing. Fun, right?

          P.P.S. Do you know what the Danes told the middle eastern immigrant protesters who demanded the same state funding for their mosques?

          1. Good analysis. I think that you could easily find groups that incorporate elements of socialism within their group while opposing it on a broader level of society.

            1. Social Welfare Plans are not the same thing as Socialism, even though they use some of the same tools. ‘Progressives’ are trying to soft-sell it as ‘democratic socialism’ or ‘socialism-lite’, with fewer carbs bread lines. But a robustly capitalist economy with strong protections for individual rights, like personal property, freedom of speech, etc., is about as far away as you can get from a centrally-planned, socialist economy. Denmark vs. Venezuela. That’s why Bernie loves to conflate the two so much. It’s dishonest.

              There are only a couple of things that operate like a socialist economy in Denmark: the Danish Lutheran Church, which I mentioned above, and the couple of industries that are owned and operated (and competition outlawed) by the royal family. (Note: not the state, the crown. It’s still a monarchy in some aspects).

    4. You are aware that sweeden and Denmark are capitalist countries?

      1. See response above.

    5. Socialist policies were so popular in the 2nd half of the 20th century that millions of people from places like Vietnam, Cuba, and Eastern Europe risked everything they had, including their lives, to get away from them. Same thing in Venezuela now. It has been proven in spades that socialism fails, but our current 20somethings don’t do history.

      Socialism is the ultimate promise of something – a lot – for nothing. Unfortunately the nothing turns out to be everything, including liberty.

      1. 20 somethings don’t do history because it’s a white supremacist construct. And who taught them that? Their socialist teachers and professors!

  9. Democrats plan to consolidate power, and right now they have complete control. They are unified. Republicans want to believe fantasies so will not work as hard at trying to block legislation or sue over executive orders. The next two years will have plenty of changes so buckle up. There’s no real resistance at all.

    1. Yup, Trump has decimated his own party on his way out the door.

      1. lol – in other threads WK argues Trump’s cultists number 74 million, hundreds of thousands of which violently stormed the capital to stage an inserrection by giving a single speech, yet in this thread Trump’s a loser who destroyed his party.

        Poor stupid WK….it cannot be both.

    2. There is more resistance to Democrats than people realize.

      The Commies at MSM and unreason dont cover it, so most people believe the Lefty lies.

  10. “Rebuke”
    I don’t think that word means what you think it means.

    Hey, Robby; the democrats took the senate, the house and the white house.
    If that is a rebuke, I would really, really hate to see a sweep.

    1. They had to cheat like motherfuckers with massive boxfuls of harvested fake ballots sneaked in the door at 3:00 A.M. in order to pull it off though.

      1. Keep living in a fantasy world.

        1. I know you’re a Reason staffer sockpuppet. Go get rawdogged in the pooper by your boyfriend again, faggot.

      2. You dont even need election fraud. The unconstitutional changes to election law without state legislature approval is enough to de-legitimize election 2020.

        Even Wisconsin supreme court agreed 210,000 mailin ballots were illegal.

        As I said, there were tens of millions of illegal ballots counted. Democrats AND Republican AND Libertarian. Democrat plans to steal elections never work out like they hope.

        JFK got his head blown off.
        LBJ refused to run for reelection a second time.
        Carter lost to Reagan.
        El Presidente Biden wont even finish a 4 year term.
        ….

        1. He’s not going to last 4 months.

          1. Kind of a tossup.
            Waiting two years and a day gives Kween Kamala the longest possible reign, and letting Biden take the fall for the most outrageous fascism is a good idea, but I am not sure the can keep the corpse animated that long.

        2. El Presidente Biden wont even finish a 4 year term.,

          I’m not sure of that. Even most Democrats know that Harris is a worse scumbag than Biden. It’s why she had around 2% support when she dropped out of the primaries.

          -jcr

    2. Hey idiot, they lost seats in the House compared to last session, and expected to have a nice majority in the Senate.

      1. In gerrymandered districts it’s quite easy to lose districts. And before all the wrong polls, no one actually expected them to take the Senate this year.

          1. Doesn’t matter. The GOP will cycle into power by 2024.

            Then they will be booted out later with abysmal Trump/Bush 20%ish approval ratings like always.

            1. Trump’s rating was 45%.

            2. JesseAz
              January.18.2021 at 10:18 am
              Man, all you leftists do is lie.

              Sarah Palin’s Buttplug 2
              January.18.2021 at 10:24 am
              Doesn’t matter.

              Dildo in a nutshell. Well, plus the kiddie porn links.

          2. Lefty Communist agendas brought Trump into the political arena and kicked their ass at every turn.

            Imagine what will happen to Lefties after this election fraud, Communist business lockdowns, attempting nuking of the US economy, and hyper-inflation from runaway debt spending?

            Someone that Lefties hate even more than Trump.

            That and continued fracturing of the Party of slavery. Slaves and slave owners on different sides of the Democrat party.

  11. A brief summary if Mises in Human Action:

    “The second pattern,” Mises continued, “nominally and seemingly preserves private ownership of the means of production and keeps the appearance of ordinary markets, prices, wages, and interest rates.”

    But this “market economy” is a facade, Mises explained. Through mounting interventions (mandates, “investments,” etc) in the economy, the government’s sway over business grows and grows, to the point where it is the state that ultimately steers production, and thus becomes the de facto owner of the means of production.

    Mises called this “the Hindenburg or German pattern” of realizing socialism, because that is how Paul von Hindenburg, the leader of the German Imperial Army, imposed “wartime socialism” on Germany during World War I, and also how socialism later re-emerged under the Nazis.

    With the green new deal, investment in “systemic racism”, public option/ACA, etc… Biden represents the 2nd type of socialism where government uses it enormous influence to change means of production.

    1. We call that fascism today.

  12. When the top capitalists like Buffett, Gates, Soros, Google guys, Bezos etc all rush to join the GOP then we will know we only have one capitalist party.

    They won’t because the GOP is a white trash Aborto-Freak redneck party.

    1. There is only one Power-Mad party. That thinks their ‘visions of delusion’ must be dictated on every persons life.

      Sell your soul to the [WE] foundation; because you don’t own you, [WE] own you.

      P.S. Your Abortion partisan claim is pathetic. Neither side has a supported standing on the subject as it is extremely time-sensitive. I’m not against early abortion but I’m willing to bet there’s not a lot in Nazi party who’s willing to hold onto chopping up a newborn on it’s way out and calling it Abortion either (although probably more than you’d like to think because you people really are that insane with Power).

      1. There is only one party now thanks to Trump destroying the Republican Party out of pure childish self-centeredness.

        1. Poor commies at unreason.

          They think the Republican Party is destroyed.

          Little ‘ol RINOs and neo-cons just dont have the power they once had in the GOP.

          Trump and the GOP are more popular than ever before.

        2. I like how idiots always think this is the case.

          Good on you WK.

        3. “My *emotions* makes me think Trump is a pure childish self-centered…? I have *emotions* because I have no Logic.”, sincerely The White Knight.

        4. But WK, you said Trump commanded legions leading to massive capital protests resulting in deaths. Now you’re saying he’s an ineffectual loser?

          You know it can’t be both right?

          Idiot

    2. You are mixing up the terms capitalist with corporatist.

      1. That and Lefties hate that the modern GOP is actually fighting the Democrat Party not just being a different side of the same coin.

        Poor old RINOs and neo-cons just dont have the power in the GOP they once had.

    3. Buffet, Gates, Soros, and Bezos are in the post-scarcity economy already. They can afford to go full Star Trek level command and control socialism.

      The high taxes proposed by the socialists exacerbate wealth inequality, by stopping high income productive people from becoming wealthy. This splits society into a wealthy overclass and a struggling underclass, like California.

  13. Even Reason says this shit- none of that is socialism. Just stop fucking saying socialism you gd idiots.

    1. Its Communism. Some of the Lefty leaders have been emboldened to publicly move from Socialism to Communism.

      Democrats locking down businesses is Communism.
      Democrats requiring masks is Communism.
      Democrats requiring stuff to do stuff is Communism.

      The corrupt Lefty bureaucrats and politicians in the government are trying to control you. Its Communism.

      unreason covering for this Communism just goes to show how Communist unreason staff are.

      1. Yeah, Warren Buffett is a communist.

        You’re a fucking idiot or some sort of parody account.

        1. Buffet is a corporatist. It is the soft side of fascism.

        2. Denial-ism is a strong habit to break.

          1. That’s ironic as hell on a comment thread where lc1789 is a participant.

            1. poor unreason. Never can refute what I say.

            2. LOL. You amuse me now that you’ve given up your façade of being a centrist or reasonable. Just let the lefty hate flow through you.

            3. Is being a parody what you aspire to now?

        3. I’ve convinced myself he’s parody. Nobody that’s really that stupid could operate a computer.

          1. Poor Lefties. They attack the person rather than refute what is said.

            unreason is so sad.

            1. If you think unreason is so sad, go away.

              1. Im here to make sure no unreason lie ever goes unchallenged.

              2. Remember when you maintained you only bashed Trump and not the Democrats because Trump was in power? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
                While Trump is out of power on Wednesday and you are still bashing on him and defending Democrats. So can we expect the same level of hostility you’ve shown Trump and the Republicans starting on January 22nd?

                1. WK lied?!?!?? OH MY GOD.

                  Wait, not newsworthy.

                  1. too local

                2. It was clear to most of us that Dee is a lefty the whole time.

        4. Waffen Buffet got his money from Capitalism and definitely from crony Capitalism. Now he wants to “help” others find Fascism, Communism, and Socialism.

          Lefties are so funny. They think believe that Communists dont use the Capitalist system against itself. Its literally a basic tenant of Communism.

        5. Anyone who assumes Shrike understands anything about what Warren Buffet says (or why) is operating under a bad assumption.

          I’ve never once seen Shrike interpret anything correctly. I’ve made arguments in favor of Marxism, socialism, and committed socialists–better than Shrike ever could–just so I can rebuke them properly.

          Shrike is a moron who only gets things right by accident.

          1. P.S. Arguing that socialism is a good idea because Warren Buffet says so is an appeal to authority fallacy. Is that what Shrike is doing?

            That wouldn’t be surprising. Pretty much everything he says is stupid, and what I mean by that is that I don’t read everything he says. It’s just that everything he’s said that I’ve bothered reading was stupid.

    2. Even Reason says this shit- none of that is socialism.

      Oh. Then it must be true.

      lol – idiot

  14. “The s-word doesn’t actually play too well with most voters.”

    The problem with this observation is that what the voters think won’t matter at all for at least another two years, but the socialist policies under consideration will all come to a vote within Biden’s first 100 days in office.

    ObamaCare was unpopular at the time that it passed, and that wasn’t a secret.

    http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/03/22/rel5a.pdf

    It didn’t matter. The Democrats passed it anyway. Why do we keep talking about the popularity of these programs? The Democrats don’t care whether socialist programs like Medicare for All or the Green New Deal are popular–not enough that they’ll vote against them.

    Why not talk about some other irrelevant factor? We are being ruled for the next two years because of the results of the last election put the Democrats in control of every aspect of government. There is no good reason to think they care what we think about anything, and there are excellent reasons to believe they don’t.

    We’re giving people a false sense of security and a false sense of hope by playing into the absurd fantasy that people’s opinions matter for the next two years. The progressives don’t even care what average Democrat voters think–unless they’re rioting. To talk about the unpopularity of something in that context is to actively support a collective delusion. Our policy makes don’t give a shit what we the people think about anything for the next two years.

    1. Again, I think a lot of people who wanted to lose are having a hard time adjusting to the real world consequences of his loss–journalists included.

      If you didn’t realize that Donald Trump losing meant socialism, then you’re a fucking idiot–and everyone that hates socialism should hate you for it. The only thing to do now is admit your mistake. Go look at yourself in the mirror, give yourself an uppercut, and as the blood trickles from your lip, promise yourself to never be so stupid again.

      That’s the way out. Living in a dream world where our opinions still matter when the progressives are in charge of everything isn’t the solution to anything. For goodness’ sake, the whole purpose of progressivism is to use the coercive power of government to force people to make sacrifices for the common good (as they see it). What part of forcing people to do things against their will makes you imagine that they care what the victims of their policies think?

      LOL

      1. “Again, I think a lot of people who wanted [Trump] to lose are having a hard time adjusting to the real world consequences of his loss–journalists included.”

        —-Ken Shultz

        Fixed!

        1. ….. But Biden has nice hair and talks about stuffing butterflies and roses up our butts.. Sometimes I think *emotions* is the only thing the left has.

          1. And Trump’s tweets . . .

            In a choice between Trump’s tweets and socialism, every libertarian should choose socialism, hands down!!!

            There were also legitimate libertarians, out there, who were genuinely possessed of the notion that there were more than two possible outcomes in the last election. I think they were lulled to sleep by recent elections, when it really didn’t matter who was in charge. On the issues of TARP, ObamaCare/expanding Medicare, never ending wars, using the NSA to violate our Fourth Amendment rights, etc., etc. Obama and Bush were virtually indistinguishable. I either voted Libertarian or didn’t vote for 20 years prior to this election because I didn’t see any meaningful distinctions between the outcomes of the elections.

            This last election wasn’t like that. The differences between the election outcomes were clear.

            1. “In a choice between Trump’s tweets and socialism, every libertarian should choose socialism, hands down!!!”

              Nope. They should go for a third choice, because neither of the first two is remotely libertarian.

              1. If you thought there were more than two possible outcomes before the election, you were wrong.

                If you still think there were more than two possible outcomes after the election, you’re a fucking idiot.

                1. She’s a fucking idiot.

              2. Unsatisfied with exposing himself as morally depraved for arguing that shooting unarmed protesters is justified if they’re trespassing on public property, White Knight has now committed himself to proving to us all that he’s also delusional.

                1. Except it’s “she”. White Knight is a squawking bird named Dee, and female.

              3. I hate to say this to the Libertarian crowd; but you’re never going to be able to play in the championship game until you first win the regional game.

                This whole no-party and 3rd party narrative is like throwing 5-Football teams on the field at the same time to play the championship game. That’s NOT how any ‘winning’ sport is played.

                You’re going to have to win regionally against the Democrats or the Republicans before getting to the championship game. Trying to jump to the top of the ladder is NEVER going to cut it.

                1. Be smart like the Nazi’s and support ‘fragile’ partisan-leaning Libertarian Candidates in both Primaries. 2x the chance to win 🙂

                2. It’s one thing if the outcome of the election doesn’t really make any difference.

                  This one really mattered.

                  1. Taking for granite that 3AM spike wouldn’t have gotten even more spiky.

                3. Hence California’s “Top Two” idea. Sort of like the College Football Playoff, just don’t let the smaller schools in.

                  1. Not if they lost all the other games before it… What’s the point; just to run interference? We all know that both Ron Paul and Rand Paul were Libertarians that played in the primary game; I wish they would’ve won but they didn’t – what’s the purpose of putting them on the championship game after they’ve already lost the primary?

            2. This last election wasn’t like that. The differences between the election outcomes were clear.

              Oh good Lord. EVERY election is supposedly “the most important election in our lifetime” according to Team Red and Team Blue.

              You are falling for the fearmongering because you are an afraid scaredy cat who wants to run behind the skirts of Daddy Trump because AOC said something that makes you scared.

              1. Is this ironic coming from the obese guy who warned us government would force us to wear masks if we refused to do so?

                1. Lying Jeffy wouldn’t know irony if it kicked him right in his fat gut.

              2. “On the issues of TARP, ObamaCare/expanding Medicare, never ending wars, using the NSA to violate our Fourth Amendment rights, etc., etc. Obama and Bush were virtually indistinguishable . . . . This last election wasn’t like that. The differences between the election outcomes were clear.

                —-Ken Shultz

                The reason ChemJeff didn’t address that argument or formulate a reasonable argument of his own in response is probably because he’s ignorant and stupid.

                “Oh good Lord. EVERY election is supposedly “the most important election in our lifetime” according to Team Red and Team Blue.

                —-ChemJeff

                “An association fallacy is an informal inductive fallacy of the hasty-generalization or red-herring type and which asserts, by irrelevant association and often by appeal to emotion, that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of another.”

                —-Wikipedia for “Association Fallacy”

                “You are falling for the fearmongering because you are an afraid scaredy cat who wants to run behind the skirts of Daddy Trump because AOC said something that makes you scared.”

                —-ChemJeff

                “Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.”

                —-Wikipedia for “Ad Hominem”

                The things I’ve said are true regardless of whether I’m a “scardy cat”.

                The reason ChemJeff can’t address these arguments without major flaws in his reasoning is because he’s ignorant and stupid.

                And, no, that isn’t an ad hominem fallacy. It’s a syllogism.

                Premise One: One form of ignorance is not knowing anything about basic reasoning, and being unable to reason is also a good definition for stupidity.

                Premise Two: ChemJeff has displayed both of these characteristics in this post, in this thread, and across all threads for a very long time.

                Conclusion. ChemJeff displaying both the characteristic of not knowing anything about reasoning and not being able to to reason strongly suggests that he is both ignorant and stupid.

                1. “An association fallacy is an informal inductive fallacy of the hasty-generalization or red-herring type and which asserts, by irrelevant association and often by appeal to emotion, that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of another.”

                  Claiming that both Team Red and Team Blue declare every election to be “the most important election of our lifetime” isn’t a fallacy if they literally do claim it is true, election after election.

                  Here is Conor Friedesdorf making the same complaint, all the way back in 2012, when THAT election was supposedly “the most important election of our lifetime”.

                  https://archive.is/KCNRf

                  Both Team Red and Team Blue are guilty of the Hasty Generalization fallacy when they repeatedly declare every election to be the “most important election of our lifetime”. But hey this time is different, right?

                  And, no, that isn’t an ad hominem fallacy. It’s a syllogism.

                  LOL no, it’s an ad hominem, as I demonstrate on a daily basis, along with every other poster here (even Tulpa from time to time), how to reason and how to construct arguments. Your “proof” is easily refuted. You simply cannot stand it that there are people here calling you out for your bullshit.

                  1. “Claiming that both Team Red and Team Blue declare every election to be “the most important election of our lifetime” isn’t a fallacy if they literally do claim it is true, election after election.”

                    —-ChemJeff at 3:33 pm

                    ChemJeff’s association fallacy response is even worse for not relating to the argument he was criticizing.

                    “There were also legitimate libertarians, out there, who were genuinely possessed of the notion that there were more than two possible outcomes in the last election. I think they were lulled to sleep by recent elections, when it really didn’t matter who was in charge. On the issues of TARP, ObamaCare/expanding Medicare, never ending wars, using the NSA to violate our Fourth Amendment rights, etc., etc. Obama and Bush were virtually indistinguishable. I either voted Libertarian or didn’t vote for 20 years prior to this election because I didn’t see any meaningful distinctions between the outcomes of the elections.

                    This last election wasn’t like that. The differences between the election outcomes were clear.

                    —-Ken Shultz @ 10:16 am

                    ChemJeff could have argued that there wasn’t much of a difference between Biden and Trump or between the Democrats and the Republicans in 2020–just like there wasn’t much of a difference between the Democrats and Republicans in 2004, 2008, and 2012. Normally, I’d suspect the reason a person would refrain from making that argument is because the facts simply don’t support the assertion that there wasn’t much of a difference between Trump and Biden on policy.

                    But given ChemJeff’s behavior, in this thread and so many others, the reasonable conclusion to make is that ChemJeff’s criticism failed to even address my argument because he is stupid. And I mean that in earnest. He is a stupid person who can’t even seem to put up a reasonable argument–not even on a dare. He doesn’t know where to begin.

                    1. Repeating yourself doesn’t make it true.

                    2. And you not being able to comprehend it doesn’t make it false.

                    3. Troll Mac, you offer nothing of substance. When was the last time you offered a thoughtful comment about anything? All you do is troll and troll. You don’t offer thoughtful reasoned dialogue about anything because fundamentally you are a coward. To present one’s own ideas is to invite criticism of those ideas, and that is too difficult for your fragile ego to handle. Instead, like the schoolyard bully, all you do is insult and demean others because that is the only way you can find meaning in yourself. It is rather sad, actually.

                    4. Don’t take it out on me that you got embarrassed by Ken, Lying Jeffy.

                  2. Lol, even after he explained association fallacy you did it again.

                    That means you were ignorant at first, but then too stupid to learn.

      2. If you didn’t realize that Donald Trump losing meant socialism, then you’re a fucking idiot–and everyone that hates socialism should hate you for it.

        WE ALREADY HAVE SOCIALISM, KEN!

        Trump DEFENDED socialism every single day of his presidency! Whether it was the $2,000 stimulus checks, or the tariffs on Chinese products being used to fund farm subsidies, or his adamant refusal to do anything at all about Social Security, or his desire to have the government purchase prescription drugs on behalf of Medicare, it was all socialism.

        Team Red just cynically used the WORD socialism to scare people. As if what we have now is pure capitalism! It hasn’t been pure capitalism for about 100 years now! And you fell for it. You fell for their cheap demagogic trick.

        If Trump had been re-elected, we would still have massive socialism. AND YOU WOULD HAVE CHEERED IT ALL ON. Because you’re now on the Team Red Train.

        Fuck off, Ken. You’re a giant disappointment.

        1. The reason you claim to be more libertarian than others, while not knowing the difference between capitalism and socialism is because you’re ignorant and stupid.

          1. He already admitted he was a globalist without knowing what that meant. He isn’t libertarian.

            1. Of course he’s not.

              Anything he knows about libertarianism, he picked up here, and that was only by accident. He doesn’t know anything about libertarianism at all–and he doesn’t much about anything else either.

              1. LOL. I actually voted for Harry Browne in 2000. I’ve been engaged in libertarianism in one form or another since the days of USENET discussion forums. Your libertarianism seems to have been inspired by reactionary nonsense, rather than any principled commitment to liberty for its own sake.

                1. 1) Voting for a libertarian doesn’t make your thinking libertarian.

                  2) Arguing against libertarians on UseNet doesn’t make your thinking in any way libertarian either.

                  3) I haven’t see a libertarian thought come out of you yet. The values and ways of thinking that all libertarians share–even those who disagree with each other on various issues–are things that you never seem to have heard of before.

                  Conclusion: On most issues, you’re more stupid and ignorant, but on the issue of being a libertarian, you’re full of shit.

                  1. 3) I haven’t see a libertarian thought come out of you yet.

                    Yeah you have. You just can’t admit it, because if you were to admit it, you would have to admit that YOUR brand of “libertarianism” isn’t the One True Libertarianism, that there are a diversity of beliefs out there that can broadly be construed as falling within the liberty movement.

                    You are a pompous arrogant windbag who would rather sell his soul to Team Red than to accept even a degree of humility that people who think differently than you may not be stupid or ignorant, simply different. Grow up Ken.

                    1. You’re not a libertarian – you think about the collective, not the individual. You dream of more socialist policies and authoritarian control. Just own it and move on.

                    2. Sure, whatevs.

          2. Damn Ken. You’re on fire today. Carry on.

            1. It’s not difficult against Jeff, but it can be tedious, so we must applaud Ken whenever he makes Lying Jeffy look stupid. Because it’s definitely entertaining.

    2. My congressbandit got all sorts of publicity about how she was going to “poll her constituents” over an impeachment vote. Said she was going to send out e-mails asking for feedback. I’m on her e-mail list but I never got an e-mail. Meanwhile, before the results are even in, she’s proclaiming she’ll vote for impeachment. I send an e-mail, obviously unacknowledged, anyway. Days later when she voted to impeach, she never mentioned how her poll turned out or if any constituents didn’t want her to vote to impeach. Frankly, I wasn’t surprised. When I told several folks in advance what her posturing was all about, I was told I was “too cynical.”

      1. The appropriate term for progressives who actually want the government to force them to do things against their will is “pious”.

        The appropriate term for Democrats who think their representatives should take public opinion into consideration is “heretic”.

      2. Honestly you see this nearly every time you write to your “leaders”. If they disagree with you, they will explain why you are wrong. If you agree with them, they will simply thank you for your support.

        At no point do they actually consider your opinion.

        1. ^THIS is the very reason “The People” wrote a Supreme Law over their government BEFORE creating it. Power corrupts absolutely even to the point of ignoring “The Peoples” law over them and it’s up to the people to insist that the Supreme Law will always ensure their Individual Liberty and Justice.

  15. Well, this article has really aged well. /sarc

  16. The Democrats have controlling majorities in Congress and the executive. Perhaps the electorate did not give them an endorsement of socialism, but they have the power to impose it.

    1. swing Senator from WV Manchin, is the most powerful man in Congress for the next two years.

      1. That is a thin reed to rely upon.

      2. Manchin is already saying use of the 14th to expel duly elected senators for daring to raise questions on the election is a valid use.

        1. Oh I know. If you cant count on RINOs when you need them, democrats in red states cant be counted on to challenge power either.

          Just saying that manchin is hanging onto his senate seat by a thread and there is a very tight margin for democrat majority in the senate. 1 dissent is all it takes.

  17. Too bad Biden/Harris don’t see it this way.

    1. Harris/Drooling Biden

    2. El presidente biden and kamala rouge.

  18. It isn’t socialism, per se, as we will maintain the illusion of capitalism but the government will increase it’s control of industry and business. There is another word for that type of government. It starts with an F not an S.

  19. Perhaps it was a rebuke on the word “socialism,” but how could it be a rebuke on socialism when American citizens are convinced they are entitled to $2,000 of other people’s money? In fact, even republicans now sneer at the meager $600 of free money.

    Trump was trojan horse for socialism and socialism is winning hard right now. I hope socialism gets sick of winning sometime soon.

  20. Sure, make sure the branding for a comprehensive nanny state that distributes all kinds of free stuff, mostly funded by confiscating property from those who “have too much”, and controls both commerce and information to promote “fairness”, avoids the word Socialism. People beg for all the components but fear the truthful label.

    I wonder if those same Democrats learned from retail marketing experts, like those who sell beer brands. “Yeah, make sure the image includes thin, pretty people having endless fun, but don’t call it Hopeless Fat Slob Ale.”

    1. Exactly. Everyone hates the word socialism, but they love the free money they didn’t earn.

      So why not just call it something other than socialism.

  21. More like a rebuke of reason.
    Here are Biden’s “4 Crises”:

    1. COVID-19 pandemic
    2. Economic downturn (from the lockdowns)
    3. Climate change
    4. Racial equity

    1. Here’s the problems we’ve seen created by Democrats in various States, Cities and other Agencies…
      1. COVID-19 pandemic
      2. Economic downturn (from the lockdowns)
      3. Climate change
      4. Racial equity

      Not a single one of those is a problem in my [R] State.

      1. Here’s the #1 crisis in our State.
        Democratic National Socialists in the Federal Government MAKING problems.

    2. The first one is an actual crisis.
      The second was self-inflicted as an overreaction to the first.
      The third one we can’t do anything about.
      The fourth one is mostly a result of policies in cities controlled by Democrats for decades.

  22. 2020 election, like most elections, was a rebuke of honesty, only more so. Nothing else.

    1. It also enabled adding new states, coming after our gun rights, instituting Medicare for All, instituting the Green New Deal, and stacking the Supreme Court.

      The outcome of the election was far more authoritarian and socialist than anything it supposedly signified in principle–and we really shouldn’t lose sight of that fact.

  23. Here’s the free speech story of the week:

    “Author Barry Lyga has posted an open letter signed by more than 250 authors, agents, booksellers, and publishers supporting their opposition to any publisher signing up President Donald Trump or members of his administration for any further book deals.

    . . . .

    Titled “No Book Deal for Traitors,” the letter reads, as follows:

    “As members of the writing and publishing community of the United States, we affirm that participation in the administration of Donald Trump must be considered a uniquely mitigating criterion for publishing houses when considering book deals.

    . . . .

    “Son of Sam” laws exist to prevent criminals from benefiting financially from writing about their crimes. In that spirit, those who enabled, promulgated, and covered up crimes against the American people should not be enriched through the coffers of publishing.

    We are writers, editors, journalists, agents, and professionals in multiple forms of publishing. We believe in the power of words and we are tired of the industry we love enriching the monsters among us, and we will do whatever is in our power to stop it.”

    —-Publishers Weekly

    https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/publisher-news/article/85329-industry-members-unite-to-block-trump-administration-book-deals.html

    Whether they should be free to blacklist authors for being in or associating with the Trump administration may not be the question here, but there is a libertarian question about whether they should be denounced for this–and the correct answer is “yes”.

    1. They are already threatening hotels for hosting Senate fundraisers for their opponents.

    2. In the future, everyone will be memory-holed.

    3. “Consequently, we believe: No participant in an administration that caged children, performed involuntary surgeries on captive women, and scoffed at science as millions were infected with a deadly virus should be enriched by the almost rote largesse of a big book deal.”

      So, no more book deals for Obama Administration members? no book deals for Gov Newsome and take back the one to Gov. Cuomo.

      The appropriation of science by the Left as definitive support for their controversial policies (especially when the people advocating that obviously have no clue about how science works) is a contributing factor to our toxic politics.

    4. We believe in the power of words and we are tired of the industry we love enriching the monsters among us, and we will do whatever is in our power to stop it.

      Using the “power of the press” to obstruct free speech.

      For anyone that didn’t understand before, this is exactly what Orwell intended to convey by:

      IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

      1. Time to start burning books!

        1. You don’t have to burn them if you don’t let them get published in the first place.

    5. Reason supports this now.

    6. Jeff or Chipper will be along to tell you why you’re wrong, not a libertarian, and actually support fascism any moment.

      1. Ken is free to denounce anyone for anything, for any reason he wishes.

        But Ken will have to come up with a more persuasive argument as to why this particular action *should* be denounced by libertarians *as a general principle*.

        1. ^Tiny dick energy.

        2. These are the times when the ‘radical’ and the ‘individualist’ in Jeffy’s moniker are shown to be contradictory. And that the radical outweighs the individualist by an order of magnitude.

          1. The reason he’s contradictory is because he has no idea what he’s talking about. These are all random ramblings. I’ve never seen any understanding, knowledge or thought behind anything ChemJeff writes. I openly question his intelligence.

            1. Sure Ken, whatever. I’m not the one who turned into an emotional puddle hiding behind Trump’s skirts because AOC said something disagreeable, or who thinks Biden is the harbinger of doom for the Republic. You choose not to respond to what I write because it would expose you for the Team Red cultist that you have turned into, and questioning my intelligence is your way of avoiding the discussion.

              I question your commitment to liberty for its own sake.

              I question your commitment to a liberty movement that holds the powerful to account, including the Team Red stooges that you seem more than happy to bend over backwards for.

              I question your ability to use reason and logic to see through the obvious demagoguery and fearmongering that Team Red offers up on a daily basis.

              You’re a pompous windbag who would be more at home at Breitbart.

            2. Well… he does excel at sophistry

              1. Sophistry would suggest it might be compelling for aesthetic reasons.

                All he does is emote.

                If anybody can find a reasoned comment by ChemJeff, go ahead and link it.

              2. Intellectually speaking, ChemJeff isn’t even knowledgeable enough to know that picking his nose at the dinner table is embarrassing.

                He isn’t even knowledgeable to know that he should be ashamed of himself.

                1. Gee, Ken, that sounds like a whole lot of ad hominem insults. What would you describe a person that uses logical fallacies all the time? Hmm?

                  1. What would you describe a person that uses logical fallacies all the time? Hmm?

                    On multiple occasions I have noted that I call them ‘Jeffys’. Care to hazard a guess how that originated?

                    1. Fuck off, Chucky. Go back to your bunker.

                    2. Fat people shouldn’t call others chunky, Fat Jeff.

                    3. That’s all you have, childish insults. How lame.

                      Stop being a coward and post something of substance once in a while.

                    4. Keep crying Fat Jeff. It amuses me.

    7. Not even the tiniest bit surprised. The left is made up of people who long to be a part of the ruling class 70 years ago.

    8. Free speech is… fungible here at Reason.

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  25. With the government firmly in command of all economic activity big and small and day to day news headlines concerned almost completely with what resources are being allocated where by the Top Men and the incoming administration promising free money for all I wonder at what point we can stop calling it Capitalism and start calling it what it really is.

    1. Don’t be silly, only those evil republicans are fascists.

      1. Fascism is just what Mussolini called progressivism.

    2. It’s currently Corporatism. Which we call “crony capitalism” so as to not unduly anger the banks. But it’s not socialism. Mussolini called Corporatism the heart of fascism. We are currently a fascist-lite nation, without the overt military trappings.

      So yes, Trump is a fascist. But so was Obama. Trump just happens to be a populist fascist.

      1. “without the overt military trappings.”

        Have you seen what’s going on in DC right now?

      2. You know what, fair enough Brandy.

  26. Actually, pretty much everyone likes socialism. Most just don’t like being told that what they favor actually is socialism though.

      1. Umm, yeah. Try telling all those senior citizen Trump voters that in order to get rid of socialism, we must get rid of Social Security.

        1. in order to get rid of socialism, we must get rid of Social Security.

          Honestly, are you retarded ?

          1. Indeed, she is.

          2. What do you think Social Security actually is?

            Do you think there is an actual Al Gore Social Security lockbox sitting in some vault somewhere in DC?

            1. lol this isn’t even worth responding to but whatever.
              Your original post said ‘pretty much everyone prefers socialism’.
              I said no.
              Then you rebut with a non-sequitur about getting rid of social security to destroy socialism.
              Now you’re trying to conflate social security with being equal in concept to socialism.

              … Your original post said most people prefer socialism.

              Are you following this ?

              1. Your original post said most people prefer socialism.

                Because most people are in favor of the current wealth redistribution schemes that already exist, most notably, entitlements like Social Security and Medicare. But don’t dare tell them that it’s socialism.

                1. entitlements like Social Security and Medicare

                  They are only entitlements if you don’t pay taxes, dumbass. They are supposed to be compulsory savings for retirement and single payer supplemental healthcare insurance. The entitlement part comes from the creeping socialism you deny exists.

                  1. SS is not “compulsory savings” because the money you pay into it is not actually yours.

                    1. The caps exist on both pay in and pay out, for now. But what this means is every dollar is treated the same regardless of ones income. it is not redistribution except in the barest sense that people who paid in prior are getting paid out now. If caps are removed or the program becomes a means based transfer then you would have somewhat of a point.

                    2. Half of it is. The employer matches your contribution.
                      You would know this if you actually had received a paycheck at some point in your life.

                    3. No, once the taxes leave your paycheck, they are NO LONGER YOURS. Neither your own “contribution” nor the employer “match”. They are both just general taxes, no different than income taxes or tariffs, free to be spent by the government on whatever they wish.

                      Here is just one case for you to look at, Fleming vs. Nestor. In this case, Nestor’s SS benefits were canceled because he was stripped of his citizenship. Nestor sued claiming that he was owed a certain amount because, he reasoned, the SS taxes that he paid were actually his in some contractual sense, like with an investment account. Not so, said SCOTUS. SS taxes are just ordinary taxes and the only entitlement that anyone has to any of that money stems from the arbitrary whim of Congress.

                      https://www.ssa.gov/history/nestor.html

                    4. “SS is not “compulsory savings” because the money you pay into it is not actually yours.”

                      . . . .

                      “No, once the taxes leave your paycheck, they are NO LONGER YOURS.”

                      You guys see how stupid this is, right?

                      You shouldn’t complain about the money you earned being taken out of your paycheck–under threat of violence and against your will–because it isn’t really your money anyway.

                      You earned it, but it isn’t really an involuntary contribution because it was never yours–and the government is taking it, rather you contributing it. Why can’t you see how fair and wonderful this is?!

                      This isn’t dishonest. This is stupid.

                      We’re arguing with some guy jerking off in the middle of the street.

                    5. You shouldn’t complain about the money you earned being taken out of your paycheck–under threat of violence and against your will–because it isn’t really your money anyway.

                      After the money leaves your paycheck in the form of FICA taxes, no, it’s no longer your money. Yes you should complain about it, of course!

                      You earned it, but it isn’t really an involuntary contribution because it was never yours–and the government is taking it, rather you contributing it. Why can’t you see how fair and wonderful this is?!

                      This is you dishonestly twisting my words. I never claimed that you didn’t really earn your paycheck. I am arguing against the fiction that Social Security “contributions” go into some personalized account with your name on it that you simply reclaim once you retire. That is false. Social Security “contributions” are just taxes like any other tax. I’m not defending Social Security, you moron. You are, by trying to obfuscate what Social Security really is and isn’t.

          3. Social Security is a literal redistribution of wealth from current workers to current retirees. The taxes that workers pay in the form of FICA go directly to pay for the Social Security checks of current retirees. They do not go into some mythical “account” with your name on it. The amount of benefits that a person receives from Social Security are entirely created by law, not based on some fictional sum of money in a person’s Social Security “account” in DC.

            1. I really should’ve known better than to take the obese clown’s bait.

              “Most people prefer socialism” =/= “most people like medicare / SS”

              You would have to be retarded not to understand that, and retarded not to understand the difference.

              1. What do you think Social Security is? It is *literal redistribution of wealth* from current workers to current retirees. Is that not socialist in your world? Are you a moron?

                1. Jeff, in what way is SS taking control of the means of production?

            2. They do not go into some mythical “account” with your name on it. The amount of benefits that a person receives from Social Security are entirely created by law, not based on some fictional sum of money in a person’s Social Security “account” in DC.

              LOL!

              “Social Security benefits are based on your lifetime earnings. Your actual earnings are adjusted or “indexed” to account for changes in average wages since the year the earnings were received. Then Social Security calculates your average indexed monthly earnings during the 35 years in which you earned the most.” – http://www.ssa.gov

              How could you be so wrong, Jeffy? I get a statement from the SSA. Everyone who actually pays taxes does. Oh, maybe that explains your ignorance.

              1. Social Security benefits are based on your lifetime earnings.

                Only because Congress has defined it that way. They could arbitrarily change that to anything they wished. In reality your SS benefits are based on the whims of Congress, NOT based on any amount in an investment fund, like in the case of a 401k.

                1. Arbitrary changes would be subject to lawsuits since SS originally was upheld in courts as it was not a pure wealth redistribution scheme.

                2. And by the way dummy, many people hate social security and would rather never participate.

                  1. Exactly. Let’s look at Chemjeff’s line of thinking:

                    everyone likes social security (no) therefore everyone likes socialism.

                    1. We tend to imagine these people are being dishonest, but what we’re really dealing with is ignorance.

                      He has no idea what he’s talking about, but he think you should feel the say he does about social security.

                      It’s like reasoning with a little girl throwing a temper tantrum. You don’t take their temper tantrum over not getting their way seriously. And ChemJeff’s level of knowledge and feeble attempts at reasoning are on that level.

                      You can’t be against socialism because socialism is great and being against is going to hurt a lot of people’s feelings–so why don’t you join with the rest of us libertarians, Ken, and support Social Security and socialism like we do!

                      We probably shouldn’t even respond to that with a reasoned response. ChemJeff is a dog humping our leg. It’s disgustingly stupid.

                    2. I didn’t say “everyone”. I said “most people”. Which is true.

                      https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/03/21/retirement-social-security-and-long-term-care/psdt-03-21-19_us_2050-04-03/

                      Strong majorities are opposed to making any cuts whatsoever to Social Security.

                    3. You can’t be against socialism because socialism is great and being against is going to hurt a lot of people’s feelings–so why don’t you join with the rest of us libertarians, Ken, and support Social Security and socialism like we do!

                      Ken, where did I say I supported Social Security? Go on, provide the quote. I’ll wait.

                      I never did, that is because I don’t. YOU think that pointing out REALITY – that most people support socialism (in the form of programs like Social Security) as long as it is not labeled “socialism”, is somehow expressing support for it. It isn’t. That is the difference between the narrative-pushing tribalists – like you – and reality-based individuals, like me. Recognizing reality is not an endorsement of the status quo. On the other hand, the narrative-pushers think that by denying reality long enough they can substitute reality with a narrative of their choosing. Well that doesn’t tend to work, Ken. Stop living in denial and start recognizing reality.

                3. They could arbitrarily change that to anything they wished. In reality your SS benefits are based on the whims of Congress, NOT based on any amount in an investment fund, like in the case of a 401k.

                  You argue as if I am a kid, disillusioned, yet still in denial after discovering the grift at the heart of the SSA. Ken is right, you argue at that level, because fundamentally you are unable to reason past it. Too ignorant and self-consumed to understand that other people are not scared of being old and alone with nobody to take care of them like you are.

                  And how fucking disingenuous is it to call out SS but not spare a word to criticize Biden or the stimulus package that he will now push through so that the states who lied and overpromised their PEUs can meet their pension obligations instead of having to declare bankruptcy and forestall all those billions in graft to the entrenched bureaucracy.

                  1. LOL I have been aware that SS is essentially a Ponzi scheme for over 30 years. I strongly support privatizing Social Security. I thought W’s plan in 2005 for partial privatization didn’t go far enough. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about. You are arguing against strawmen and not against real people, which is typical for you.

                    1. I have been aware that SS is essentially a Ponzi scheme for over 30 years. I strongly support privatizing Social Security. I thought W’s plan in 2005 for partial privatization didn’t go far enough.

                      Really? None of that came through from the steaming piles of solipsistic crap you dropped throughout the thread. Maybe if you don’t start from the premise that you are being criticized by mean girls and accept that real ideas deserve real criticism, there could be some kind of dialogue.

                    2. Maybe if YOU don’t start the “dialogue” with insults and baseless assumptions, then a genuine discussion might be possible.

                      As usual you start from a bad faith premise and then want to blame someone else when your bad faith is revealed for all to see. Why don’t you take responsibility for a change, admit that your insults and assumptions about me were all wrong, and then go fuck yourself and go away.

                4. Social security isn’t really what it is…because Congress could change it. Haha, so dumb.

        2. Try telling all those senior citizen Trump voters that in order to get rid of socialism, we must get rid of Social Security give up on receiving any compensation for the 7% of our wages confiscated from us over our careers as part of the government’s mandated savings program.

          How on earth could you justify telling them that?

          1. Just look at what happened last time someone proposed messing with Social Security. It’s not called the third rail of politics for nothing.

            1. BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE FORCED TO PUT MONEY INTO IT THEIR ENTIRE WORKING LIFE.

              1. Not only that, but Social Security has been offering negative returns to the average person that pays in–since at least 2012.

                https://business.time.com/2012/08/07/social-security-now-takes-more-than-it-gives/

                ChemJeff doesn’t know that because he’s ignorant.

    1. Pretty much everyone is a socialist… except for the National Socialists. That’s not true socialism.

      Pretty much everything else is, though.

    2. Socialism is the government dominating industry, prices set by government, and wealth distributed by government, and the reason Chem thinks everyone likes that is because he’s ignorant and stupid.

      Capitalism is private individuals controlling industry, prices set by markets, and wealth distributed by markets, basically people being free to make choices for themselves–since markets are people making choices.

      The idea that people making choices for themselves is unpopular is ignorant and stupid

      1. Socialism is the government dominating industry, prices set by government, and wealth distributed by government, and the reason Chem thinks everyone likes that is because he’s ignorant and stupid.

        So in your world, Social Security and Medicare are deeply unpopular programs that the people demand be abolished immediately. Is that what you’re saying Ken?

        The US health care market, right now, is socialism by your own definition, and it’s not just because of ObamaCare either. It’s primarily because of Medicare. Over half of health care spending is spent by the government. Social Security is quite literally the redistribution of wealth from current workers to current retirees. That is literal socialism by your own definition. These are both very popular programs that *no one* in power right now has any desire to change, because they would be crucified at the next election if they tried. Look at what happened to W’s plan to reform Social Security. It went nowhere and that was with unified Team Red control of the government.

        This is also why your criticisms of Team Blue’s socialism are so insipid. WE ALREADY HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF SOCIALISM. YES Team Blue is proposing more socialism. (So is Team Red by the way.) Is it bad? Yes. It is SO HORRIBLY BAD compared to what we already have? I think the jury is out on that one. Biden’s public option plan for health care would crank government spending on health care up a notch or two. But government spending on health care is ALREADY cranked up MANY MANY notches. Come join the rest of us here back in reality, where Biden’s plans do not represent some crazy level of Republic-destroying authoritarian socialism, but instead represents Obama’s third term with basically a neoliberal approach. Argue against it on its own merits or lack thereof, instead of this crazy hysterical OMG SOCIALISM nonsense.

        1. “So in your world, Social Security and Medicare . . .”

          ChemJeff thinks this is a matter of perspective because he’s ignorant and stupid, when, in reality, any definition of socialism that doesn’t include government domination of industry, prices set by government, and wealth distributed by government is incomplete–regardless of perspective. Incidentally, any definition of capitalism that doesn’t include industry dominated by private owners, prices set by markets, and wealth distributed by markets is also incomplete–regardless of perspective.

          I suspect ChemJeff is falling victim to the classic trap of the ignorant–projection–where they imagine that because they don’t understand what other people are talking about, they assume the people doing the talking are ignorant. No, ChemJeff, because you don’t understand what is meant by socialism and capitalism doesn’t mean other people ignorant. It means you are ignorant.

          For anyone who may be participating as a spectator here, notice two things.

          1) ChemJeff eats up progressive propaganda about how even the capitalists are really socialists; believes it because he’s ignorant and stupid; and regurgitates it as if it’s persuasive because he’s ignorant and stupid.

          2) ChemJeff claims to be more libertarian than others, but apparently doesn’t believe that Social Security is a socialist wealth redistribution program that we’d be better off without. In fact, this seems to be the first time he’s heard Social Security criticized as a socialist program by libertarians–because he’s ignorant and stupid.

          1. Ken, how does Medicare fail your test of what constitutes socialism? How does Social Security fail your test of what constitutes socialism?

            Ken, do strong majorities of Americans support Social Security and Medicare? Yes or no?

            Premise: Strong majorities of Americans support Social Security and Medicare.

            Premise: Social Security and Medicare are socialist wealth redistribution schemes.

            Conclusion: Strong majorities of Americans support wealth redistribution schemes.

          2. Hey Ken, why didn’t you respond to anything else I wrote in that comment above? Hmm? Because it’s all true and you cannot face yourself to admit it. Because to admit that something I write might be true, is to reveal for all to see that you’re just another rabid right-winger, slinging insults and garbage, but with more pretension.

            1. Probably because you’ve become predictable and it’s not worth his time.

              Oh, and crying “Social Security is Socialism” sounds about as pig ignorant as people on Reddit saying “socialism is anything the government does” and “taxation is theft”, usually in a mix of letter cases.

              1. Social Security is literal state redistribution of wealth. What else is it?

                This entire exchange has been patently amusing. When I take the position that “Social Security is socialist” then everyone jumps out of the woodwork to assert that it isn’t, just because I am arguing the opposite position. It is hilarious in its absurdity.

                Maybe I should argue that Trump is an excellent human being, just to see everyone argue against the position.

                1. “Maybe I should argue that Trump is an excellent human being, just to see everyone argue against the position.”

                  Do it.

  27. “Flirting with socialism may have cost Democrats dearly. If Republicans win either of the two runoff Senate races in Georgia, President-elect Joe Biden will face a GOP-controlled Senate.”

    I regret to say I stopped reading at this point.

    They’ll just change labels and push the same old stuff and attack anyone who repeats what the Concerned Democrats quoted in the article said.

  28. Rep. James Clyburn (D–S.C.), the House’s third-ranking Democrat, urged members not to run on “Medicare for All or socialized medicine” in the future. Even some progressive Democrats echoed these concerns. “I think Republicans did get some traction trying to scare people on this socialist narrative,” said Rep. Jared Huffman (D–Calif.), a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. “What’s the point of embracing a phrase like that?”

    Honesty?

    I mean, you ostensibly care deeply about democracy. Go ahead and tell everyone about your bestest policies ever to make everyone happy, and let them decide.

  29. We’ll not use the words, but we’ll use the actions.

  30. Neither the Left or the Right in America have the first clue what “socialism” even means. It’s just code word for something else.

    Socialism is the public (ei. government) ownership over the means of production. There are variations on this basic definition. National Socialists (ei. Nazis) allowed nominally private ownership, but asserted government control over the production. Meaning companies were private but forced to produce what the state told them to. Which is not far off from Fascism. Which at its heart is the partnership of public and private which Mussolini called “corporatism”. Which today we call “crony-capitalism” just so we’re not overtly rude to the banks and the president.

    So other than the public school system (socialist) and the pockets in the financial sector (fascism), we aren’t socialist. Instead we have a welfare state. Invented by Bismarck to two step around the socialism that was sweeping Europe. Give people the dole before the socialists came and promised the dole. But the dole is NOT socialism.

    When progressives like AOC and Warren talk about “socialism” they’re really talking about the welfare state. More handouts to more people. The means of production are still in private hands. At most they’re talking about fascism without the military trappings.

    When conservatives talk about “socialism” they mean the same thing. Too many handouts to too many people. Or more pointedly, handouts to the wrong people. Because a lot of “conservatives” are fine with handouts to their own tribe.

    That doesn’t make welfare right, but it does mean it’s NOT socialism. Words mean things and we need to use appropriate words.

    So when someone suggests jacking up the taxes on the rich, they don’t mean socialism, they mean to take from unfavored groups to give to favored groups. It’s redistributionism, or welfarism, but it’s not socialism as the state is not nationalizing industries. It’s just redistributing shit. Which is bad. But still not socialism.

    1. Yup.

      For Team Blue, “socialism” is code for Denmark or Norway.
      For Team Red, “socialism” is code for Cuba or the Soviet Union.

      1. I wouldn’t call “socialism” a “code word” for Cuba or the Soviet Union. I’d call it an historically accurate description. That’s like saying “fascism” is a code word for Nazi Germany.

        1. Only if you think “socialism” can only mean Karl Marx’s narrow definition of the term, “state ownership of the means of production”. The way the term is colloquially used, however, means more than just that narrow definition, and broadly encompasses government redistribution of wealth generally.

          1. Which is an erroneous definition. The welfare state is NOT socialism.

            The colloquial use is wrong.

      2. Well Cuba is and Soviet Union was (past tense) explicitly socialist. Not pure socialism, of course, as such a thing could not last more than a week.

        Neither Denmark or Norway were socialist, but Sweden actually was, a soft of socialist-lite. Until they wizened up and converted to a welfare state to avoid utter bankruptcy. That the Left still thinks of them as “socialist” is a credit to the socialist meme-mongering, not Sweden. That they are a thriving welfare state is a credit to their homogenous no-tall-poppy culture rather than their compassionate dole.

        p.s. I once helped crowd fund a Danish developer before the term “crowd funding” was a thing. He asked for the equivalent of $60,000 salary. And he itemized his budget for that $60,000. The bulk went to pay his taxes. And did not include VATS.

        p.p.s. Which come to think of it, was not too far off from US taxes. Combine Federal, state, and local, plus all the various fees, but not counting sales tax, and we’re still in the ballpark of 50%, which is within softball pitch distance of Denmark’s 60%. Denmark is just more open with their taxes, while the US has it hidden and obfuscated and withheld so no one has a clear idea of what they actually pay overall.

    2. Moderation4all wrote above: “The Republicans were successful in linking socialism with Cuba and Venezuela, while some Democrats failed in linking it to north European countries like Denmark and Sweden. I don’t think this election shows a repudiation of socialism as much as one side’s success and the other’s failure in branding.”

      You just plagiarized it. WTF.

      1. That’s OK. Nice to know that you noted my post.

    3. Private education exists. So do private charities. If your premise is that public education is socialism (government control of education in the market for education), then how is public assistance not socialism (government control of charity in the market for charity)? How is free food fundamentally different from free education? Giving a man a fish is not socialist, but teaching him to fish is?

      Public utilities and public corporations beg to be misclassified under your definition. At what point does ‘public’ become ‘government’? Is an HOA with 1000 members a government? Is a corporation with 100,000 stockholders? Is a township of 200 not?

      It seems like socialism is better described by who makes the choices, not by who has ownership. It is best described by is results rather than its intentions.

    4. I think you are taking the meaning of socialism to an extreme when you describe it as government ownership of production. This is part of the “branding” battle going on between Democrats and Republican. While your description is accurate for the text it is not the practical definition. Socialism is really about commons, things we all are expected to contribute to and are then allowed to use or draw from. That can mean the social safety net or as many call it welfare. It can also apply to things like roads which we pay for with taxes but can then be used by all.

      I would again argue that all modern economies, and for that matter many older economies have mixed capitalism with socialism. Capitalism provides opportunities to success and advancement through competition, while socialism provides a buffer and backstop to protect people.

      The current argument is capitalism vs socialism. The argument we should be having is what is the most productive mix of the two systems.

      1. “The argument we should be having is what is the most productive mix of the two systems.”
        Sure. Get back to us when you have that all figured out. Or do you already. Maybe we should put you in charge!

      2. They can mean whatever you want them to mean, but I think these distinctions obscure more than illuminate. Every country does have a mixed economy, and that includes even the most capitalism-forward ones, and capitalism doesn’t even make sense in the absence of a state any more than socialism does. Someone has to decide to protect intellectual property rights.

        Marx more or less invented these distinctions, and while it’s certainly amusing to see his influence stretch well into the 21st century, the key insight from practice is that capitalism is fantastic for generating free societies, but only when coupled with a strong safety net to keep the market permanently elevated beyond the exchange of basic survival needs.

    5. We’re in a mixed economy. Capitalism produces all the goods and services people want and need, and Socialism is the sickening parasite that sucks it all off and shits it down the bureaucratic/crony toilet. The trick the Elitists look for is how to suck the max off without killing it. The eternal quest….

  31. In what fucking world does electing a pair of Democrats, one of who is half of Obamacare and has been pushing the ‘the state should do everything’s, mean the socialism was rejected in the last election?

    Bernie Sanders was just the most vocal socialist running, the whole slate was socialists from start to finish.

  32. And the relected little misses ‘let’s print money like the printer’s about to break’. Every single one of the four, including the three anti-semites along with googly eyes.

  33. >>which saw Democrats capture the White House while losing ground in Congress

    tells you one of these things is utter baloney. write about how that happened.

  34. Put down the bong once in a while, this election was *not* a defeat for socialism.

  35. 2020 Elections gives socialists complete power in Washington

    “The 2020 election was a rebuke of socialism”

  36. In short Democrats just want to change the words they use not their shitty policies.

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  41. “The 2020 Election Was a Rebuke of Socialism”

    WTF is Soave smoking, or injecting?

    In fact, the 2020 election was rigged by left wing Democrats and their anti Trump media propagandists at NYT, WaPo, MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS, NPR, AP, Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc. who manufactured a public panic by lying about covid, imposing unscientific and unconstitutional totalitarian lockdowns to destroy the economy, and greatly expanded mail-in voting in states to encourage even more election fraud by Democrats.

    1. Well, maybe not a rebuke, but the one thing I keep thinking is just how damn hard the Dems and the Left works at elections and harvesting votes, and still only squeaks out narrow victories about half the time. And mostly in urban areas at that. That should encourage liberty minded folks that the war is not yet lost.

  42. It’s just a word. Democrats need to be at least as unprincipled as the most benign Republican, who at least understands that words don’t mean all that much but are quite useful at manipulating people’s feelings.

    The number of people in this country who think socialism refers to something good can fit inside Bernie’s lake house.

    1. The number of people in this country who think socialism refers to something good can fit inside Bernie’s lake house.

      And they’re mostly elected officials you support with every fiber of your being.

      1. Nah. All capitalists, every one.

        I’d hate to think you were supporting fascistic monsters because you were mistaken about what their opponents supported.

        If you want to have someone laugh in your face, tell a Bernie bro that Democrats are socialists.

  43. And that’s why they keep changing the meaning of words and pretending it’s something other than what it is. But a rose by any other name is still a rose.

    1. It’s not anything. Technically it’s a system of government that’s never truly existed where the government owns all the means of production.

      That’s not the same as having any old public sector or a social safety net. If someone’s referring to an ism they’re usually trying to scare you into not thinking.

  44. Yes, a solid rebuke of both the Bernie and the Donald brands of socialism.

    Trumpism is Fascism rebranded by and for those who have never read a book.

    “What, actually, is the difference between communism and fascism? Both are forms of statism, authoritarianism. The only difference between Stalin’s communism and Mussolini’s fascism is an insignificant detail in organizational structure.”
    ~ Leonard E. Read

    “Needless to say, under either system [socialism or fascism], the inequalities of income and standard of living are greater than anything possible under a free economy — and a man’s position is determined, not by his productive ability and achievement, but by political pull and force. Under both systems, sacrifice is invoked as a magic, omnipotent solution in any crisis — and “the public good” is the altar on which victims are immolated.”
    ~ Ayn Rand

  45. Your quote from Clyburn is the most telling. He is clearly indicating support for all of it just make sure not to say so publicly.

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