Coronavirus

Just 1.3% of NYC COVID Cases Are Coming From Restaurants. Why Has Cuomo Banned Indoor Dining?

The order is killing businesses and isn't rooted in science.

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I was walking down Greenwich Avenue in New York City's West Village last week when I saw something poignant: dining tables at the curb, set with white linen and electric candles. It was only 5:30 p.m. but already dark, which might have added to the romance, and I guess it did, if you don't mind eating outside when it's 35 degrees out.

The restaurant was one of nine open along a two-block stretch of Greenwich between Sixth and Seventh Avenues, each trying to navigate Gov. Andrew Cuomo's edict, set in September, requiring New York City restaurants to operate at only 25 percent indoor capacity. Last week he took it even further: As of December 14 and until further notice, there will be no indoor dining permitted whatsoever. His reasoning? With COVID-19 hospitalization rates rising, any potential source of transmission must be eliminated.

This would appear not to be very educated guesswork. The latest transmission data show that 74 percent of new COVID-19 cases come from private in-home gatherings, and only 1.3 percent from bars and restaurants. Seeing as they cannot (yet) prevent individuals from being inside their own homes, officials instead press on with a series of decisions that have battered the restaurant industry since March, when eateries were first ordered to close. At that time, establishments got creative: They pivoted to takeout, they sold cocktails on the street, anything to keep some money coming in until they could reopen. Such tactics were not enough. As reported by Eater NYC, more than 1,000 restaurants permanently closed between March and November.

Restaurateurs' main gambit, however, has been to erect curbside dining structures. While a source of irritation for anyone looking for a parking spot, they've been a welcome sign of normalcy in a not-normal time. They also make the streets look festive, especially at night, all lit up and ready for patrons. And yet, when I started my walk down Greenwich, every table at every restaurant was empty.

"This has been the biggest challenge that we've ever had, I think," said Rick Salas, manager at Elephant & Castle, which installed curbside dining a few months ago. "We do have heaters out there but of course, when it gets really cold, I don't know how effective it's going to be. I mean, it's amazing that there are brave souls that don't mind the weather."

A mainstay on the New York dining scene––he worked at Keens Steakhouse in midtown Manhattan before coming to Elephant & Castle 28 years ago––Salas showed admirable forbearance at the city's restaurants being used as a test balloon, if not a punching bag. 

"I can understand that this has been a stressful situation, for every agency in the city," he said. "I know that they're lacking in not enough people, so we're trying to be as understanding as possible. It's difficult. We're basically staying open to keep ourselves out there and making money, obviously, and keep as many people employed as possible."

New York state does not appear to share these concerns, instead instituting new requirements that would seem to have little to do with preventing the spread of COVID-19. In July, for instance, state officials required bars to start serving food. This seems both arbitrary and cruel, to require businesses barely hanging on to invest in cooking equipment and learn how to use it. Last month came the order that any "roadside seating" must be tricked out by December 15 with "sandbags, reflector tape, snow sticks, and plastic barriers," which the city would provide free of charge. Thoughtful, except one restaurateur friend last week spent half of Wednesday and Thursday waiting at city dispersal sites, only to have them run out each time. Finally, on Friday, he trucked out to Staten Island to get the sandbags, the same day he was ordered to shutter his Manhattan restaurant to indoor dining. How did he feel about this?

"Cuomo is an asshole," he texted. "Maybe evil is a better word."

It is hard to understand Cuomo's logic when the closures apply only to New York City and not other areas in the state, where transmission levels are most recently and for the most part higher. He's previously stated the reasoning has to do with population; that "There is a density level in NYC that is destructive," a charge his critics might level at him. 

There has been and will continue to be the ingenuity that comes with needing to survive. For instance, the oyster bar down the street from me recently transformed itself into a wine and provisions shop. Handy if you want to pick up a bottle of red or some fancy salt, but no way for the owner to meet the bottom line.

What does Cuomo expect people to do? Cocoon themselves and emerge resplendent once there's a vaccine and/or the commands from Albany stop? While some restaurants do plan to go into hibernation mode, the majority will not be able to survive without income; what industry could? Yes, COVID-19 is legitimately scary. Also scary: eradicating that which allows an ecosystem to function. Imagine a city as a board game of interlocking pieces. Take away the schools, the gyms, the bars, the restaurants. Cut back on services like the subway, which New York's Metropolitan Transportation Authority says might need to slow by 40 percent. How long before New York City no longer fits together? And what develops in the chasms? 

"You walk up Bleecker and some of the other streets [in the Village] and it's all empty storefront after empty storefront after empty storefront," says Dov, waiting for friends at a café table at Greenwich Avenue's Le Baratin. "I think this city is going to have a dip of pretty high crime at some point."

Sitting in front of the bistro, Dov says he "doesn't mind the cold." Plus, as a customer of ten years, he feels some loyalty and wants to do what he can. 

"They're closing indoor dining anyway," he says. "I was just talking to the owner. Because there's the hydrant [at the curb], they can't put in the permanent [structures]—which are basically indoor anyway. You have three, almost four walls and a roof, it's hard to make the argument that that's outside. I'm waiting for those to get shut down."

Or fall down. While some of the newly-installed structures along Greenwich appeared solid and commodious, with heaters and even big-screen TVs, others looked like no more than something one might bivouac in. It was heartbreaking to see one small greenhouse-shaped plastic tent, maybe the only edifice the owner could afford, being blown sideways in the icy wind.

"It's been challenging but we are trying to navigate these challenges and come up with ways to beat it," says Adil Fawzi, director of operations at American Bar. "We stay very close to what the customers need. I feel there is more drinking than eating. If someone wants a special drink, we'll try to get it on the menu."

As the sound system played Stevie Nicks' version of "Silent Night," Fawzi enumerated what the restaurant has done to keep the doors open.

"Be very present on social media, on Instagram; that we are here and surviving and we are open. And we took the roadside, obviously," he says. "In the summer it was easy. Easier. All the restaurants, as you see, they try to be creative and build some enclosure that cuts the wind. In the winter obviously, when it starts to get cold, people will be [less inclined] to sit outside; they will not [want] to sit outside but they will have no choice."

Fawzi says the neighborhood has been supportive, locals still coming in to dine—but it hasn't. "Instead of understanding us as a restaurant that is struggling, and not only us but the staff is struggling because we're cutting hours, they call [the authorities]," he says. "And the city has been tough on us, to be honest with you. They won't give us breaks. Every moment of every day I feel like we're on their radar. The radar is the city, and every move you do, they're on you. Which I get. There are guidelines that we follow, obviously. We follow all the guidelines, but sometimes, like the ten o'clock curfew, they won't even give you fifteen minutes to bring the chairs and tables inside. It's just very hard."

An hour into my walk and I saw only four people eating outside, including two young women for whom the new outdoor-only rule will be business as usual.

"We don't sit inside," one told me. "I don't think it's comfortable. I feel like this is safer."

Fair enough. But New York has yet to get really cold, and with the exception of a dusting, there's been no snow. It remains to be seen how alluring the $48 strip steak at Quality Meats will be, and how often, when you're shivering in your winter coat.

One innovation through all this appeared to be the number of food deliveries made on electric bikes, which are now everywhere in the city, including one in front of me on the corner of Greenwich and Sixth. Maybe, I thought, the service was proving to be a win-win-win, a way to move products and keep people employed and get customers that steak at home. I asked the rider, laden with a delivery box, whether he was being kept busy. 

"Not busy," he said.

Slow?

"Slow."

I'm sorry.

"No worries," he said.

I worry.

NEXT: You Don't Need To Believe Andrew Cuomo's Accuser To Think He's a Terrible Governor

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  1. It’s only science if the high priests certify it’s science. If the science goes against the high priests it can’t be science because the high priests didn’t certify it.

    1. The Tony religon.

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    2. If it needs priests then it’s not science. If it’s certified then it’s not science. People don’t understand what science is, so they imagine it’s religion or something.

      1. Calling it science does not make it science, and there is no ‘certification’ there is only skepticism.

        But scientism is very much a religion.

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    4. How about this: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2923-3
      Is that high enough priest?
      tl;dr A lot of cases come from folks eating in restaurants.

      1. that is a model…not a study or a proof. Faith in models is misplaced.

        1. You would think a linguist would know the difference between “model” and “study”.

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      2. Georgia had no lockdowns and our restaurants are open. You can sit anywhere you want. No masks requirements by the state.

        Georgia is doing great since we all need to be exposed to kungflu anyway.

        1. If you say so. ICU’s are at 85% capacity. Case counts are peaking past where they were beginning of August. If you following the trailing death rate… well, a lot of people may not be having a great Christmas.

          https://dph.georgia.gov/covid-19-daily-status-report

          1. Our restaurants have been open since May and we’ve had 370 deaths out of 4 million people.

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          2. Operating at 85% capacity is completely normal.

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    6. SCIENCE, DAMN IT!

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  2. 100% of Georgia restaurants that want to be open are.

    We dont have mask mandates and we are just fine.

    1. this can’t be true. Georgia was an experiment in human sacrifice. Are you telling me that experiment was a failure?

    2. Smoker’s logic.

      1. Logic is faulty based on the personal foibles of the source? Sounds like a there’s a flaw in logic-based reasoning somewhere.

      2. No one is telling you that you can’t cower in fear if you choose.

        We’re Libertarians here.

        1. > We’re Libertarians here.

          It’s been a while since you’ve been here, I take it.

        2. You are not a libertarian. Fuck off.

          1. LOL. You aren’t either sweetie. You are a leftie who wants people to placate themselves to their betters. See covid, see smokers apparently.

            1. He’s a huge piece of shit too.

              1. “Cuomo is an asshole,”

                1. It’s genetic in that family.

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      3. So you want to bottle up smokers too huh. Totes libertarian. Who else do you despise that you want removed from common communities?

      4. Poor lefties ignore georgia being just fine after no lockdowns and no masks requirements.

        They tried to ignore Georgia until their massive democrat spending here failed for ossoff, Warnock, and Biden

        1. Georgia sets new record for most confirmed COVID-19 cases in single day
          https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/georgia-sets-new-record-for-most-confirmed-covid-19-cases-in-single-day

          Just keep telling yourself it’s all good here. In fact, don’t you have a rally or two to attend? Maskless, of course.

          1. Do you also freak out about flu cases every year?

          2. As compared to LA, which just set a “record” for hospitalizations in a day. After being locked up all year.

            1. “Cuomo is an asshole,”

          3. The highest incidence of cases is among the age cohorts at least risk of dying, or even going to the hospital.

    3. According to the numbers found here (Dec 14) , Georgia is in the upper 50% of states with the most cases per 100,000 residents. You’re at 5,113 per 100K, just barely better than Florida at 5,242. For comparison, California–the most populous state–is at 4,016, New York 3,985, and Vermont at 922. North Dakota is at 11,531 with South Dakota just below.

      In death rates, Georgia is much higher at 18th in the list with 95 per 100K dying from the disease. California is at 53. Vermont 15. New Jersey tops it out at 200.

      You have an interesting definition of “just fine.” More people are dying each day of the virus than died in New York on 9/11. Only this is happening in every state on every day. That isn’t “just fine.”

      1. Heaven’s to Betsy!

        They are also living freer than New Yorkers or Californians.

        Why do you think that is a problem?

      2. 95 per 100k?
        NINETY-FIVE PER ONE-HUNDRED-THOUSAND!?

        Someone stop the presses, grab the body bags, bring out yer dead because this disease is killing 0.01% of people! Wait, no, that’s not right. It’s not killing 0.01% of people, 0.01% of people are dying while they have the disease.

        Mama mia, oy vey, ara ara, dios mio, what ever will we do? Clearly, the only logical course of action is to lock people in their houses indefinitely while they wear cheap paper dust masks. That should fix that in a quick, oh, maybe nine more months?

        1. And they’re all middle aged adults and twenty-somethings and children.

          Oh wait…

        2. Everyone should just commit suicide so they don’t get it. The progtards should go first, and tell us how it works out.

          1. +1000000000000000000000000000000000000000

        3. Nine months? They told us two weeks to slow the spread.

      3. Note the complete lack of association between lockdown states and death rates???

      4. And how many die of heart disease? Looked at the other way, how many are immortal?

        1. Connor Macleod?

        2. There can be onlyONE.

      5. Less than 10,000 kungflu deaths in 12 months for Georgia. Even with the wuhanvirus bump due to lying as to cause of death.

        650,000 Americans died of heart disease this year.

    4. I disagree with you here, loveconstitution1798. Georgia is part of the reason that the Covid 19 virus pandemic is running so rampant and out of control right now.

      1. Your citation fell off.

        Georgia has low deaths and has no lockdowns and no masks requirements. Businesses are booming here.

        We are living proof that democrats are fucking lying.

        1. “Cuomo is an asshole,”

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  4. Just 1.3% of NYC COVID Cases Are Coming From Restaurants. Why Has Cuomo Banned Indoor Dining?

    This is a very complex question which requires a nuanced response:

    Because Cuomo’s an asshole.

    1. Because Cuomo is a fascist asshole.
      The intent is to eliminate small businesses, typically owned by individuals, who often think for themselves.
      The goal is to have only large corporate franchises, easier to manipulate, and much more likely to support the large government edicts. (Not to mention large corporate donations)

      1. All Restuaruants will be owned by Taco Bell

        1. Only the use of the three seashells will prevent COVID-19 transmission.

      2. A fasc-hole, if you will

    2. Because capping occupancy is successful at reducing the spread of the disease. If occupancy wasn’t capped, this number would be far higher.

      1. Magnificent circular reasoning there.

      2. Thus banning it entirely will have no effect. But you keep right on bowing to your government.

  5. Why has Cuomo banned indoor dining ?

    Same reason a dog licks its balls.

    1. Doesn’t explain why Cuomo licks dog balls, though. But then, maybe not all questions have answers.

      1. Cuomo licks dog ball because they’re there.

      2. It’s an old joke.

        Q; Why does a dog lick his balls
        A: Because he can.

        That’s why Cuomo banned indoor dining. Because he can. It’s the only reason assholes like that need.

        1. Yes, I got the joke. Not sure how mine about a man licking a dog’s balls fell flat, but they can’t all be zingers, I suppose.

          1. There was at least a tiny zing to it.

            1. tangy zing

          2. I didn’t take yours that way. My mistake, not yours.

            And I didn’t want to leave it hanging too long because I didn’t want Ms Rommelmann to think I was trying to rude.

        2. Cuomo banned indoor dining for a reason: That people who refuse to wear masks and social distance, especially while they’re indoors have contributed to why the Covid-19 pandemic has not been reined in. Too many people pretty much everywhere here in the United States have been emboldened and encouraged by Donald Trump, and are therefore acting like him. It’s disgusting, imho.

          1. Too many people are acting like Trump… and surviving infection. How dare they?!!

          2. Poor unreason. Your citations always fall off or dont support your claims.

            Commie propagandists always have that problem.

          3. How does boot taste you pathetic piece of shit?

          4. You rabid anti-Trumpers give him way too much credit for things like whether people wear masks. As I’ve noted on other threads, the vast majority of people don’t pay attention to the president, any of them, at all. The vast majority don’t know who Barret is.

            Yet according to those who hate Trump the most, he has god like power to control every aspect of people’s lives.

          5. That people who refuse to wear masks and social distance, especially while they’re indoors have contributed to why the Covid-19 pandemic has not been reined in.

            No, that’s not it. No data sets have shown that restaurants and bars have been a significant contributor to outbreaks. They’re roughly 10% of the numbers in prisons and nursing homes.

    2. Hey remember in the other thread posted an hour before this one where you genuflected like a pathetic pussy to mask mandates?

  6. The answer is obvious – FYTW

  7. I’m waiting on DeWine to do the same soon. I’ve been working 6 days a week during all this, going to the store, Menard’s, Walmart, Kroger and Harbor Freight. Have lunch out each one day a week with a friend. I’m 60, I’ll take my chances. I do need some more whiskey for the holidays though,

    1. Risk increases the longer you stay in single place. Walmart, Kroger, and other stores are fairly quick visits. Restaurants can easily be an hour in a single sitting.

      1. So don’t go. Leave everyone else alone. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp?

        1. A progtard cannot separate their personal woes from public policy. Its beyond their primitive inferior brains.

      2. Feel free to cite any data that shows lowering restrictions in restaurants has led to increased outbreaks in restaurants.

        1. Georgia is living proof that no lockdowns or mask requirements does not increase death rates.

      3. Even if they ban dining altogether, people can still get sick from their takeout if the person preparing the food is sick. Therefore, the only way to eliminate the risk is to shutdown the restaurants entirely. And because I’m scared, everyone else should be subject to my risk threshold… or something like that.

  8. I suspect covid is most often spread by people getting together with friends and extended family, especially indoors.

    But if you’re a politician, you can’t tell the voters THEY’RE the problem. Hell no. And you can’t legislate them short of full state and home quarantine.

    So you close businesses. “See, I’m doing something! Vote for me!”

    1. But if you’re a politician, you can’t tell the voters THEY’RE the problem.

      wat?

    2. Gathering with friends and extended family indoors spreads the virus but sitting indoors with a bunch of nearby strangers in a restaurant does not… um… Why not, exactly? Is the ‘roni able to magically differentiate friend and family from a stranger at the table next to you? No. Indoors is indoors.

      Transmission indoors by people you have a direct connection with during a shelter-in-place is more likely because people aren’t congregating in restaurants due to existing shelter-in-place orders.

      1. Except small gatherings are minuscule in their outbreak numbers.

        1. Not if the people involved in such gatherings, although small, who refuse to wear masks and keep the six-foot distance apart from each other.

          1. Citations fell off.

          2. You have no data, therefore you’re making shit up.

            In Colorado, small gatherings have totaled 605 outbreaks for the ENTIRE YEAR. By comparison, prisons have had over 11,000 and nursing homes over 16,000.

            Small gatherings are not where COVID tends to spread.

      2. Is the ‘roni able to magically differentiate friend and family from a stranger at the table next to you?

        Sure, same way the ‘roni is able to differentiate race riots from Trump rallies you pathetic piece of shit.

    3. In georgia we have huge family get togethers. No masks. Food. Indoors. Outdoors, extended family.

      Not a single person got the kungflu.

      Ive been trying to get kungflu for months just so I dont have to smell how shitty unreason has gotten.

  9. The order is killing businesses and isn’t rooted in science.

    What’s political science, chopped liver?

    1. It’s not rooted in science, it’s rooted in “science.”

  10. An hour into my walk and I saw only four people eating outside, including two young women for whom the new outdoor-only rule will be business as usual.

    “We don’t sit inside,” one told me. “I don’t think it’s comfortable. I feel like this is safer.”

    Fair enough.

    Being young women means they are almost certainly at a very low risk from this virus. I don’t like to question other peoples’ comfort zones, but I’m sure nonstop news and press conferences that are irrationally panicky isn’t helping people to make informed decisions.

    1. What you’re saying about young women and young people in general being at low risk for Covid-19 is not altogether true, some guy. In fact, even younger, healthier people, with no underlying chronic medical conditions, including children, have become seriously ill from, suffered permanent cardiac, pulmonary, and neurological damage from Covid-19, and even died from it.

      Don’t kid yourself into thinking that younger people, both women and men alike, have not become seriously ill from or even died from Covid-19

      1. What? It’s entirely true.

        As of today in Ohio, there have been 68 deaths claimed among people aged 39 and younger… out of 7,551. But nearly half of all confirmed cases are among the same age group.

      2. Citations fell off.

      3. Stop lying.

      4. Do you know what “risk” means? Yes, there are rare serious complications. Same thing happens with flu and other coronaviruses. Maybe they are a bit more common with this, but I really don’t know. They are still quite rare. There is always some risk that if you go out in the world you will catch something with the potential to make you very sick.

      5. There have been a handful of cases where that’s true out of hundreds of millions of people who have contracted the virus.

        I still like my odds.

  11. Covid is spread mostly by existing. Cuomo’s lockdowns are npt lockdowns. Just selected business closures. So it spreads when you go to Walmart? who’d a thunk it!

    And my old T shirt mask doesn’t work? Who knew?

  12. the answer to your question is he’s a petty tyrant and a scumbag.

  13. This of course won’t stop the usual suspects from babbling “why don’t you crazy selfish people listen to THE SCIENCE!!!”

    1. Follow the “science” which you’re absolutely not allowed to question!

  14. Oh good Nancy you’re back in NY. I was worried you were gonna be attacked by BLM or Antifa. Sorry about your husband’s business. I mean former business. I guess Oregonians don’t like shitty coffee made by non-Oregonians who look down on the majority of Oregonians. Who knew?

    Anyway don’t come back to Oregon you stupid right wing cunt!

    1. There’s no good coffee in Oregon. There’s just leftards like you who *think* that over roasted shit is good coffee cuz Seattle

      1. “overroasted” I can’t speak for others but I prefer light and medium roasts. I like breakfast blends.

        Nancy’s husband’s coffee was overroasted raw sewage tasting shit.

        Good riddance to that stupid cunt. Been

        1. Good riddance to that stupid cunt.

          What SelfLoathingHicklib’s mother said when she dumped him off at the police station.

          1. Look I know you’re super fucking inbred so that’s why you can’t understand this, but I’m nothing like a goddamn hick. You’re the far right, Trump cock sucking, hookworm carrying hillbilly dude.

            You support Donald Trump for Christ sakes. I know most the shit kicking inbreds on here do, but people with a brain don’t. That’s why he lost.

            I’ll let you get back to fucking your sister ya hick.

            1. God this shtick is hilarious. Have you ever considered a career in professional comedy?

            2. Leave your personal life out of this, hicklib.

              1. Sorry your BFF lost you filthy fucking hillbilly.

                Hahahaha president Biden

                Hahahaha Biden won you stupid hick.

                I hate Biden but I just love the Trump loving inbred morons exposing what fascist traitors.

                Leave MY COUNTRY you traitor hick!

  15. I’m sure Reason’s preferred candidate, Joe Biden, will get this all sorted out post haste.

    1. Reportedly Cuomo is under consideration for Attorney General in Biden’s cabinet. Just what we need in that position: an incompetent tyrant. He has had a sexual harassment allegation, so maybe that will be enough to dissuade Biden from appointing him.

      1. No, that gives him street cred.

    2. Good thing Biden will never be president.

      The constitution strikes again.

  16. I have no love for draconion lockdowns, nor do I think they are effective, but consider that maybe its SCOTUS that doesn’t give a shit about science.

    Let’s not forget, the Black Robes imposed their own scientific opinion when they overturned Cuomo’s TARGETTED ban: “Stemming the spread of COVID–19 is unquestionably a compelling interest, but it is hard to see how the challenged regulations can be regarded as ‘narrowly tailored.’ “

    1. SCOTUS shouldn’t give a shit about science. The question was whether the orders were legal.

    2. I don’t believe it’s up to the courts to interpret science. Their job is to interpret what the constitution and existing law say. That’s all.

      And I don’t believe the case you cited wasn’t about science at all, it was about the broad, sweeping nature of Cuomo’s idiotic edicts, which were inconsistent with established law.

    3. It’s a good thing you capitalized TARGETED, it makes a persuasive legal case out of an otherwise utterly unconstitutional capricious and arbitrary diktat you fucking piece of shit.

  17. If just 100-200 business in NYC simply refused to comply, these bullshit orders would be unenforceable.

  18. These types of decisions are rooted in Marxism and the destruction of property rights and ownership. And Biden and the liberals will play right along providing humongous subsidies of debt dollars to support state governments whose very decisions to destroy their economies have rendered them insolvent. This is the corruption wrecking the country…planned, precise and evil in intent.

    1. It may very well be a corruption wrecking the economy, but it’s a timely wrecking.

      Come January 21 or thereabouts, COVID will be over.

      Restaurants will be open an at full capacity. No lockdowns and no mask mandates.

      It’ll be the largest economic and employment boon since the last, last great economic downturn.

      Just like the vaccine was announced about a week after the “election”, they’ll be a timely recovery from COVID.

  19. I would say the reason it’s at 1.3% now is because of the reduction in capacity. But yes moving to a total shutdown doesn’t seem to make sense based on the numbers. If anything, it will drive up the at home number even more as there will be even less out of home options.

    1. People have to get the virus from someone at some point before they can spread it at home. If people truly followed the shelter-in-place requirements and stopped breaking the rules, we’d not have nearly 300K dead Americans. The at home numbers only went up relative to the total because places like restaurants and gyms were capped at a fraction of capacity, as you correctly noted.

      1. ‘If people truly followed the shelter-in-place requirements and stopped breaking the rules, we’d not have nearly 300K dead Americans.’

        hate to break it to you, shawn old dude, but we don’t have 300k dead from your precious virus; you know as well as everybody else those are bogus numbers meant to drive a lazy media agenda…also, how long do you propose we ‘shelter in place’? till the end of time…? if we see rising cases (another bogus term) every time we crack the door a little bit, then we’ll have to lockdown indefinitely, lest you lose your beauty rest over it…

        1. Sorry to burst YOUR bubble, Irishman12, but I have to totally agree with shawn_dude here. He’s absolutely right. It’s people like YOU who’ve caused the Covid-19 pandemic to run so rampant and so out of control. Donald Trump has emboldened and encouraged people like you.

          1. Hey look, shawn’s sock has an assertion!

          2. Sorry to burst YOUR bubble, but I have to say that you’re a subhuman piece of shit who should kill yourself.

            Gee, look at that authoritative statement. You had better do it! It’s science!

      2. Yeah, but if everybody followed the shelter-in-place requirements how would those dumb niggers that Biden says are stocking the grocery shelves keep you fed you retarded pathetic cunt?

      3. How the hell could you know that. You are just assuing that the rules work as intended with very little evidence to support the claim. Models are not reality. There is lots of data now. Show me a place where you can clearly show that following the rules made a clear difference.

      4. If people TRULY sheltered in home, you’d starve because farmers and truckers wouldn’t do their job nor the grocery employees do theirs.

        1. Yeah, that’s the thing. It was never even plausible in the first place to actually lock down and isolate everyone. It’s just evil and perverse that our supposed leaders think that’s even a possibility.

  20. Who cares if they go out of business. If you vote for the pros and the socialists then you sceed your right to liberty, self ownership, and individual rights

    1. You don’t know who they voted for.

  21. In most cases the source of a Covid infection is not known. The author cites a study of contact tracing on 46,000 new cases in NY state between September to November. However, there were 213,224 new cases in NY state during this time period. So almost 80% of new cases have an unknown source. That fact makes this essay useless.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109721/new-york-state-covid-cumulative-cases-us/

    1. It is called extrapolation.

  22. Sorry. But this is basically an example of home made garbage analysis based on someone out to prove a point, rather than a trained professional analyzing data with no particular agenda.
    Lets start with the fact that indoor dining and drinking has been closed for some time to some extent in NY. OF COURSE they would represent a smaller percentage of proven transmissions. You know how many transmissions have happened at indoor movie theaters in the same time? None! What a discovery!
    Next is the fact that these data points are percentages of the small minority of cases where a source is known. 80% are unknown. Of those few cases where one can contract trace, it makes sense that it is in a home gathering among friends and family that would be in the vast majority, opposed to some crowded bar where most people in close proximity don’t know each other.

  23. From Business Insider:

    “Japan didn’t enforce shutdowns or social-distancing orders, but it encouraged people to avoid closed spaces with poor ventilation, crowded places with groups of people, and close-contact settings like one-on-one conversations. The method, which leaves decisions about where to go and what kind of risks to take up to individuals, is designed to help minimize the spread of the virus while allowing life to continue, albeit with limits.”

    Their death rate has been way below ours, despite a crowded setting and lots of old people. So the voluntary “3-C’s” approach is much better than arbitrary edicts.

    1. This tells us a lot about how Japanese and Americans differ in how we listen to scientific/medical authorities. One of these cultures behaved more responsibly and the other is still babbling about “marxists” and “it’s a hoax” and “freedom” with nearly 300K deaths to show for it.

      1. You’re such a goddamned moron. Lock yourself into your hoke home, forever.

      2. That’s correct Shawn! Liberty only works in Japan and Sweden because of magic soil. It could never work in America because Americans are not sufficiently obsequious to state authority. This is so self evidently correct that the conclusion is actually embedded right there in the premise. You can’t refute that logic!

      3. You are more than free to hide under your bed forever.

    2. Japan kept sick people from entering the country.

      Lefty judges screamed when Trump tried to do the same.

      Anyone else realize that trump tried to keep kungflu from spreading into the UsA with china restrictions. Democrats prevented that. Democrats impeached trump. Democrats used kungflu as an excuse to change election rules.

      Its almost like the commies had a plan to destroy america.

    3. Either that or they had pre-existing immunity from more exposure to similar viruses. Or they have healthier old people.

  24. First, some additional facts via a story published in November in the journal Nature called Mobility network models of COVID-19 explain inequities and inform reopening.

    This study out of Chicago uses pre-March lockdown data to help track mobility patterns to places of interest like restaurants and its correlation with the spread of the coronavirus. The reason using pre-lockdown data is important is because as soon as people started sheltering-in-place, the infection rates at certain businesses dropped because people stopped going. If you use those sorts of post-shutdown numbers to inform the risk of catching the disease at a restaurant, you’ll be misinformed. 1.3% of infections happening at restaurants post-shutdown tells us nothing about what would happen if we opened them up wide. But this study in Nature avoids that problem and has some insight.

    As you can infer from the title, it’s not all bad news. While indoor dining is one of the biggest spreaders of the disease (lots of people in a confined space with poor air movement talking over ambient noise), capping capacity at 20% resulted in an 80% drop in transmission of the virus.

    I leave you to read the full article. Just be careful to remember that if we stop going to places then the number of infections at those places drops accordingly while other places where we still congregate, like our homes, will start to pick up the larger number of infections. Further, if one person gets infected at a restaurant and brings that home to infect 5 persons in their household, that’s a 1 mark for “restaurant” and a 5 mark for “household” infections in the statistic but without the restaurant visit it would have been 0 and 0.

    1. So no matter what, the virus wins.

      1. Nihilism?

        The virus loses when we get vaccinated. The goal is to not kill people with irresponsible behavior before the vaccine is widely distributed.

        1. Let me fix that for you…

          The goal is to not allow some healthy people to perform some activities that have a small chance of creating an even smaller chance of creating a 0.01% risk to <.1% of the population, but allowing dozens of other arbitrarily selected activities that have a higher risk.

        2. Mass suicide seems like an extremely poor solution to a problem.

    2. Stop testing then? Like the flu.

      1. Average flu in the US kills about 30K in a year. This disease has killed about 300K since March and it’s not close to being done.

        It’s “like the flu” like ebola is “like the flu.”

        1. Are you saying that COVID is like ebola? One disease has a fatality rate of around 50%, the other has a fatality rate so low and dependent on the presence of other conditions that it is difficult to pin down as a primary cause of death in most cases. Care to guess which one is which?

          1. No, he’s saying the deaths from flu, which actually include children, don’t matter. He’s good with those.

            He’s also good with traffic fatalities. We need cars, but we don’t need to leave our houses, apparently.

            1. He’s ALSO good with “Essential employees” being forced to work to keep people like him alive.

              Shut down groceries and see how long this desire for shutdowns lasts

        2. I think you need to rethink what you just wrote.

        3. If we counted flu deaths the same way we count Covid deaths the fatality of the seasonal flu would be very similar.

          Covid also hasn’t killed anywhere in the ballpark of 300,000 people. The bullshit number peddled by the CDC which admittedly includes everyone displaying respiratory symptoms even if they did of a heart attack or a fucking car accident hasn’t even reached 300,000, and if we restrict our analysis to Covid as a primary cause of death you can shave 50% off of that.

          But sure, a respiratory virus in the same family as the common cold that causes the exact same symptoms of the flu and has 0.01% fatality rate is more like hemorrhagic fever with a 50% fatality rate.

          Hide under your bed like the pathetic pussy that you are. Or better yet kill yourself before the ‘rona gets you. The rest of us will be living our lives and laughing at you.

          1. And it looks like we are going to continue to get the running tally of Covid, even though we are into a new season. If we kept counting flu deaths forever it would be pretty huge number too.

        4. No, it’s like the flu. It has similar symptoms and means of transmission and similar death rate. If we didn’t have a test for this virus most cases would be diagnosed as flu.

    3. Georgia has no lockdowns and never did. No masks requirements. Businesses are booming.

      Georgia is doing well and low deaths while infected.

    4. Oh good, a new model. 2 million deaths and counting from our last model. If the reality doesn’t comport with the model, obviously reality is the problem.

  25. So, to summarize comments so far:

    Cuomo is a petty incompetent tyrant fascist asshole fuckface dickhead who licks dog balls and needs to die in a grease fire.

    Personally, I hope someone pounds the misogynist fuck’s balls flat with a wooden mallet on national TV.

    1. Before he dies in a grease fire.

      And I ditto that for every son of a bitch criminal public official across the continent that has destroyed our common sense.

      Piece of shit rotten cunts all of them.

    2. To be sure, they could also use a culinary meat tenderizing hammer, spiky end down.

      On the other hand, they could use both sides.

      1. i see what you did there

        1. One would think Sandra Lee has packed up her tenderizer and taken it with her.

  26. Stay masked up!

    It saves….well….something?

    1. It saves political careers, the most important jobs.

      1. Very highly correlated with smugness, a leading indicator.

  27. Not to worry folks, this will all be over soon.

    Just like a vaccine was announced a week after the “election”, come January 21 or so, COVID will be over.

    No lockdowns, restaurants open to full capacity and the largest economic and employment boon since the last, last large recession.

    1. this will all be over soon.

      What is “this”? I keep hearing how nobody knows how long the vaccine protects one or if it prevents spread.

      1. It doesn’t matter what the vaccine actually does, only what it stands for.

      2. The vaccine will “work” as advertised and the MSM will make sure Joe public knows it.

        Suddenly, everything will be “under control” come late January/February.

        Do you really think the MSM is going to allow Joe to fail at combating COVID? Fail at rebuilding the economy? Fail at providing jobs?

        Nope. The MSM will declare COVID done and over with and allow the economy to roar back to life.

        Gradually, but with a timeline soon after Joe is sworn it…”looks like our numbers are improving”…..”looks like the hospitals are seeing a reduction”……”looks like the vaccine is really taking hold”…”man, Joe really knocked this COVID thing out of the park”

        If the CDC/MSM/ et. al. are really cooking the COVID books, it’s for Trumps sake. For Joe’s sake, they’ll reverse directions pretty fast.

        1. The journey will be difficult. The road will be long. I face this challenge — I face this challenge with profound humility and knowledge of my own limitations, but I also face it with limitless faith in the capacity of the American people.

          Because if we are willing to work for it, and fight for it, and believe in it, then I am absolutely certain that, generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless…

          (APPLAUSE)

          … this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal…

          (APPLAUSE)

          … this was the moment when we ended a war, and secured our nation, and restored our image as the last, best hope on Earth.

          (APPLAUSE)

          This was the moment, this was the time when we came together to remake this great nation so that it may always reflect our very best selves and our highest ideals.

          How’d that work out for everyone?

          1. “ How’d that work out for everyone?”

            “Everyone”? I don’t know about “everyone” but my taxes were lower and my 401k was doing better under trump. Unemployment was low and the economy was coming back.

            COVID hit and the MSM made sure that it took the economy and trump down with it.

            With Joe in, the MSM will make sure COVID, Hunter’s emails, and Joe’s business dealings as VP are non-news. They will make sure he is as much of a success as possible.

        2. Watch for the FDA to – quietly – change their guidelines for PCR testing shortly after Biden is sworn in. Currently they recommend a Ct threshold of 40 cycles to establish positives. By way of comparison, Portugal uses 25 cycles. Even dropping it from 40 to 33 (which is what the people most familiar with the test suggest as the maximum reliable limit) would bring the positivity rate down, the case count, and the death from/with COVID down dramatically.

  28. Why is Cuomo pulling the crap he is pulling. Simple Answer, Because He Can. Will his draconian, misdirected scams mitigate existing problems, real or imagined, NO, or Hell No, take your pick. I grew up in NYC, lived there for quite a while too. Left in 1967, for reasons I will not bother to discuss, as they have nothing to do with current goings on. I guess that The Old Homestead, my favorite restaurant, next to Pete’s Tavern on Irving Place is closed. Will it survive, who knows. As to Cuomo, who is in his third term as governor, an old saying comes to mind. People usually get the sort of government they didn’t vote against. Enough said.

  29. On March 24th, Cuomo forced New York City hospitals with covid patients to be sent to local area nursing homes. As a result, more than 6,000 of the nursing home patients died from the covid. Heinrich Himmler would be proud of this guy.

  30. These orders ignore the reality of human behavior. Despite admonitions not to socialize, humans are social animals and will find ways to do so. Removing public places like restaurants and bars results in people meeting up at friends’ houses. Restaurants & bars have invested untold millions of dollars to become hygienic and safe places with the addition of ventilation, sanitizing procedures, enough room for distancing both inside and out, along with commercial grade disinfection equipment. This is not the case in homes which are smaller, have harder to sanitize surfaces and no staff to maintain germ free conditions. So I would argue that you are safer meeting people outside of your immediate home environment in these obviously safer locations. The “scientists” have it wrong because they have not factored in normal human behavior. And if you’re going to argue that people must stay in their homes, good luck with that. The only way that can be enforced would be with martial law.

    1. Georgia restaurants dont have plexiglass or table restrictions or any of that nonsense.

      Were doing great.

      1. Citations fell off.

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  32. “…Why Has Cuomo Banned Indoor Dining?”

    You’re kidding, right?

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  34. Sincere thanks to everyone for pointing out the statistics, track and trace issues, etc. I hadn’t considered that to be as big a factor, but the numbers and uncertainty demonstrate it.

    No one likes lockdown, except for the benefits of not spreading the disease (and some psychological benefits of not being worried about spreading it or getting it).

    Watching from the UK, I see that many jurisdictions have the problem of not wanting to shut down the economy completely, and having only a few knobs to turn.

    For instance, there’s some evidence that schools are strong spreading venues, except that mostly the cases are mild, and a good portion of the infected are asymptomatic. Locking down schools would greatly impact the economy though, as many parents would have to stay home with their kids, including parents who can’t work from home — many in the transport or physical goods industries, including food, clothes, and auto garages.

    Restrictions on restaurants, especially things like take-away or outdoor dining, while not good for the restaurants, have little impact on everyone else. Sure, you can’t sit down inside, but few are going to be more than just inconvenienced (except the restaurant workers).

    There are also the psychological issues. Completely shutting down churches, funerals, and weddings can severely impact mental health. Jurisdictions have to strike a balance between the numbers, the economy, and mental health.

    They often get it wrong, because there is no right answer.

    Meanwhile, many groups and populations chafe at the restrictions, and openly defy them, common sense- and science-be-damned. This only prolongs the damage, and delays the recovery.

    We’ll be talking about this for years to come, and there will still be hurt and division, even after most people are vaccinated, and new cases are about as rare as hurricanes.

    But yes, keep railing against all restrictions. Don’t cooperate with any rules or advice. I hope that Darwin takes only the offenders, and spares the innocent, but it doesn’t work that way — the innocent suffer much more than the rule breakers.

    1. “there’s some evidence that schools are strong spreading venues”

      According to WHO:

      There were few outbreaks reported in schools since early 2020

      In most infections or COVID-19 cases reported in children, infection was acquired at home

      •More outbreaks were reported in secondary/high schools than in primary/elementary schools

      Studies suggest that children < 10 years are less susceptible and less infectious than older ones

      •In school outbreaks, it was more likely that virus was introduced by adult personnel

      Transmission staff-to-staff was most common; among staff and students was less common; and student-to-student spread more rare

      •Early modelling studies suggested that closing schools reduced community transmission less than other social distancing interventions

      1. Also:

        “Closure of schools should be considered only if there is no other alternative”

  35. Cuomo pulling the crap he is pulling. Simple Answer, Because He Can. Will his draconian, misdirected scams mitigate existing problems, real or imagined, NO, or Hell No, take your pick. I grew up in NYC, lived there for quite a while too. Left in 1967, for reasons I will not bother to discuss, as they have nothing to do with current goings on
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  37. Just 1.3% of NYC COVID Cases Are Coming From Restaurants. Why Has Cuomo Banned Indoor Dining?
    1. Because he can.
    2. Because he is a sadistic bastard.
    3. Still trying to make Trump look bad.
    4. He hates small business, only wants large chains to succeed, they donate more to his campaigns.
    He should make a great AG!

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  39. It’s as if, completely coincidentally, Covid cases went down during a stretch when the Yankees won ball games, so the Mayor orders that the Yankees must will all ball games, to curb the spread of Covid.

    Science!!

    1. …but if you don’t have a ticket, or the YES network, you might go to a sports bar to watch the game and…superspreader!

      Let’s Go, Mets!>

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  41. “If it saves even one life!”

    But they don’t really believe in that mantra. Otherwise there’d be bans on cars, ladders, bathtubs, stairs…

    1. Think “IF IT SAVES ONE CHILD!” THE SAME EXACT FEAR-DRIVEN TYRANNY. No one listened when it was “just sex offenders” being destroyed by hate and fear-driven disabilities and restraints imposed by the registry and now the very ones who champion such rules for that population are whining and crying like a bunch of babies now that it’s on THEIR DOORSTEPS. Maybe now science and proven fact can have a chance to end the tyranny so many people have been callously and maliciously crippled with for DECADES. It’s not so nice when fear and hysteria-driven life-destroying restrictions are on the other foot, is it?!?!

    2. Folks finding their lives destroyed by fear-driven, unscientific disabilities and restraints related to COVID-19 lock-downs are getting a partial glimpse at what life has been like for those listed on the various sex offender registries for the last several decades. They’re seeing what it’s like to live under arbitrary rules that destroy them and their quality of life when there is NO SCIENCE to justify it. Maybe now folks will have a little more EMPATHY for those who have been utterly destroyed by fear and hate-driven legislation.

  42. It is very simple. Democrats have their heads so far up the Union’s asses that they taste their food before they do. Unions such as the SEIU want the destruction of the “tipped industry”. They can’t unionize restaurant workers unless dues can be taken from their paychecks. This is one of the main reasons behind the $15 per hour minimum wage.

  43. The curfew is even dumber. As if the virus spreads quicker at night or something…

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  45. Reason acknowledging that these mitigation measures are not justified by “science?”

    Welcome to the party, pal.

  46. It’s really ironic that folks are now whining and crying about life-crippling restrictions that are in no way based on sound science, but rather on fear and hysteria. In a way, I’m tickled people are experiencing what it’s like to have their lives dictated and destroyed by such fear-driven rules. People who have been treated to the same unscientific, hate and fear-driven rules for decades by the sex offender registry have presented peer reviewed, empirical scientific proof that registries and the attached disabilities and restraints do NOTHING.. N-O-T-H-I-N-G to enhance public safety and yet the call to heed the science and the evidence have both been devoutly and maliciously ignored by the public and courts at large. Maybe now this sudden demand to embrace the science over the fear will start to resonate with more people! I say in many ways it’s a fair comeuppance to society. Even a court in CA has overturned county outdoor dining restrictions due to lack of basis in sound science with empirical, peer reviewed evidence to back them up. Let’s see the hypocrisy end and start demanding the same scientific foundation for the registry.

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