Election 2020

Trump's Attempts To Undo the Election Won't Work

The president's rhetoric and his campaign's actions are corrosive, but even the most powerful man on the planet can't control America's diffuse election system.


President Donald Trump's longshot efforts at getting courts to overturn the results of the presidential election in key states are ending in near-unanimous failure. Now, his campaign is turning to a new, extreme tactic to prevent election results from being certified—one that is also nearly certain to fail but that is testing the resiliency of the American democratic system in new ways.

On Tuesday, the two Republican members of the board of elections in Wayne County, Michigan, blocked the certification of the election results there. The officials cited unspecified "irregularities" with the vote count in the county, which includes the heavily Democratic city of Detroit. The maneuver quickly earned praise from the head of the Michigan Republican Party and an approving tweet from Trump—indicators that suggest this was not a rogue action, but a carefully planned one.

At stake are Michigan's 16 electoral votes. President-elect Joe Biden won the state by about 140,000 votes, but removing Wayne County (where Biden won by over 300,000 votes) from the statewide tally would flip the state's electors to Trump.

What happened in Michigan was part of an emerging strategy within Trump's campaign legal team to try to block the certification of the election in key states, The Washington Post's Robert Costa reported Tuesday evening. The ultimate goal is to throw the election into the U.S. House of Representatives. It is a little unclear how that would actually help Trump in the long run. The Democratic-controlled House would be expected to certify slates of electors from Democratic governors in the key states of Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, notes Rick Hasen, a professor of political science at the University of California, Irvine.

For now, we don't have to worry about gaming out those scenarios because the Michigan effort failed. Hours after they'd initially refused to certify the vote, the Republican members of the Wayne County elections board reversed their decision in the face of public outcry and pressure from some fellow Republicans in the state government

But that doesn't mean there won't be similar attempts made in other states. In Pennsylvania, for example, Trump-aligned Republicans have been putting pressure on state officials to block certification of the results. Pennsylvania Senate Majority Leader Jake Corman (R–Centre County) wrote an op-ed in October pledging not to take such an unorthodox step in the wake of a contested election, but a breakaway faction of Republican state lawmakers is calling for the state to postpone certifying the results until a special audit of the election can be finished.

As in Michigan, this seems to be Trump's last gasp attempt at overturning the results. Biden leads in Pennsylvania by more than 80,000 votes. Meanwhile, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court on Tuesday rebuked the Trump campaign's allegations that observers were not allowed near vote-counting stations in Philadelphia, dealing a serious blow to one of the few Trump campaign legal efforts that hadn't been immediately defeated in lower courts.

What to make of all this? Trump's campaign seems to have made little headway in convincing enough Republicans to back a half-baked plan to toss the election into Congress—and, remember, they'd have to pull off this scheme in multiple states to deny Biden the presidency. It has always been and remains a serious long shot.

"I, frankly, thought they would surveil the landscape and decide this wasn't worth trying," says Walter Olson, a senior fellow for constitutional studies at the Cato Institute. Last week, Olson outlined the many obstacles standing between Trump's campaign and the goal of getting states to reject the apparent will of the voters. In an interview on Wednesday, Olson said he remains fairly confident that this effort will fail.

"White House had made clear they are up for this and they are willing to encourage it," he says, but "as with the litigation, the motive may not be directly to win so much as managing opinion among their base, keep the balls in the air, keep the uncertainty going."

Even if Trump fails, this prolonged attack on the fundamental democratic process is potentially corrosive. If the simple, routine process of certifying election results becomes another partisan game, the outcomes of future elections are likely to be similarly fraught even when there is no evidence of fraud. Could a candidate with broader support within his or her own party succeed where Trump apparently failed in Michigan this week?

Olson offers a more optimistic take. He says the past two weeks have demonstrated the remarkable resilience of the American electoral system—a resilience rooted in federalism and the diffusion of power. A few kooky officials might be able to hold up vote-counting in a few places, but the system contains enough legal and legislative checks and balances to prevent such action from succeeding.

"We are so lucky that elections have never been federalized," he tells Reason. "No one in Washington can give orders to fire local election board officials."

On Tuesday, Trump fired Christopher Krebs, director of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency at the Department of Homeland Security. As one of the top officials charged with overseeing the cybersecurity element of federal elections, Krebs had publically spoken out against Trump's claims of fraud and malfeasance.

But when it comes to what's happening on the ground in Wayne County, Michigan, and Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, even the most powerful man on the planet is relatively powerless to control the process of counting and certifying votes. Trump can rage and cheer on Twitter, but he can't appoint his own loyalists to control the election results—and Americans should trust the system to get it right in the end.

NEXT: Why Don't Parents Let Their Kids Have Any Freedom? Q and A With Chasing Childhood Director Margaret Munzer Loeb

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  1. I have no idea how true the charges of election fraud are, and I don’t really care. If Trump decides to declare himself Emperor or unleashes some other mayhem, that’s fine with me. Let him hang up the process as long as possible.

    At this point I’ve given up on reform, the best I can hope for is revenge. Trump may yet have another service or two to perform for his country. Fuck democracy.

    1. Trumpism in a nutshell ^. “Fuck democracy.”

      Thanks for being honest, at least.

      1. He speaks for all Republicans.

        1. LOL

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        2. 61% of Democrats think that Russians hacked the 2016 election, at least that many Republicans think the 2020 election was stolen.

          What should Biden do to re-establish trust in elections?

          1. Increase the number of mailed out ballots, and loosen restrictions on verifying them?

            1. That’s not going to help the Democrats that think Russia stole 2016 for Trump.

              1. Nothing will.

                1. Go ahead and look through the comments.
                  Leftism is neurosis that’s advanced to mass psychosis.

                  1. Yup total illness of the mind now

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              2. There’s a difference between “interfered” and “stole.”
                Democrats believe that Trump received help from Putin in the form of online propaganda on Twitter, Facebook, and other social media outlets. We know that at least one on-the-ground Trump supporter was hired by Russia to wear a Hillary mask and go to pro-Trump events. [Link]

                We know that Russians offered help to the Trump campaign. What we don’t know is whether the Trump campaign accepted that help or coordinated in any manner. But whether Trump did or did not work with Russia is irrelevant to the question of whether he “stole” the 2016 election. He did not. He had foreign help but there’s no evidence that I’ve seen that says Russia hacked the vote and created a false win. Democrats accepted that Trump won the electoral college even while losing the popular vote.

                Meanwhile, four years later, Trump loses because a good number of people voted for Republicans down-ballot but not him; they either voted for Biden, the Libertarian candidate, or someone else. Trump is claiming he won and that Democrats somehow rigged and stole the election from him. And now he’s trying to steal it back, apparently. His strategy is to invalidate Democratic votes due to technicalities that, in other elections, are routine and accepted. If he gets enough Republican legislatures to agree, he will try to have them invalidate their citizens’ votes entirely and vote for Trump in the electoral college. That’s an actual stolen election if he can pull it off. (I don’t think he can, but given how the Republicans are almost entirely okay with his anti-democratic charge at the windmill, he may stand a chance of permanently breaking our democracy.)

          2. Share a can of Liquid Drano with Harris and Pelosi would be a great place to start.

          3. He’s not going to do anything. He won’t be president. 2016 wasn’t hacked it was a Democrat patriot from the dnc itself amed Seth Rich who was arkancided for taking a thumb drive to Asange with evidence of how the Clinton team stole the nomination from Sanders. The only collusion that happened was between Clinton and the Ukrainians/China/Russia. And this election clealy has massive fraud in the millions. Last count I saw was that Trump will have over 400 electoral votes and the most votes ever with over 80,000,000. Those are FACTS and more than 60%KNOW ITS FRAUD. NOT THINK

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        3. And you speak out of your ass.

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      2. “Fuck democracy.”

        Finally, you found a friend, Jeff.

      3. You’re truly an idiot, as is Boehm. Be honest, you don’t care how much fraud there is to find, you don’t care that the Michigan officials who reversed their vote did so when their kids were threatened to be harassed at school by the opposition Democrat racist bastard Aiyesh, because it’s all about “get Trump”. You’re pathetic.

        1. Exactly these people are criminals or are commiting criminal acts by doxing honest people and it makes me sick the depths these cheating lying self hating bastard go to. And the idiots who follow along like the disgruntled little do nothing virtue signalers they are. Despicable so much so that they ignore the truth thus creating a comfy little safe zone bubble.

        2. And the Republican Secretary of State in Georgia that refused to throw away votes and says the election was fair in that state also received threats from his fellow Republicans.

          Trump called the folks in Michigan up and expressed concern for their wellbeing. He didn’t call up Raffensperger. He seems to value loyalty rather than honesty.

          Meanwhile, there’s been zero actual evidence provided to a judge proving fraud on any scale.

          The scale of Republican gnashing of teeth and downright ugly tears over this is breathtaking. It makes the Democrats reaction in 2016 look boring. Just please try to leave us with a functioning democracy when you’re done? M’Kay?

      4. Democrats said it first. He’s just copying you guys, since you’re all so enlightened. Shouldn’t that be a good thing?

      5. Wrong we have a republic. Democracy is a process and as a Government inherently tyrannical. It’s mob rule. Tribalism/feudalism is what the left wants. This article is pure propaganda, from the “corrosive” Trump teams actions to the calling of Joe Biden president elect when he’s not. Why isn’t he? Because the state’s having certified him. And no Trump isn’t blocking certification nor can he. The state’s are holding up because they got caught red handing fucking millions of votes and plain not counting thousands. This writer should be ashamed of himself for writing a fake news article on a site where I thought I could get the truth.

        1. Care to back those claims up with any sort of evidence? If they “got caught red handed” that means you caught them in the act and the evidence is overwhelming. So…where’s this evidence? I’ve yet to be overwhelmed… or even slightly whelmed.

      6. Fuck democracy indeed. As we are not a democracy. As much as you leftists try to pretend we are.

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      8. I can’t speak to Trumpism, as I’m not even sure it’s a coherent set of ideas, but suspicion of democracy in this country has been around for a while and is hardly associated with whatever Trumpism is supposed to be. Hoppe’s Democracy The God That Failed was published in 2001 and certainly there were thoughtful people seeking out similar ideas well before that. But more to the point, is your comment meant to imply that democracy has some type of intrinsic virtue?

        I should hope your worldview isn’t based on some government run civics lesson you got in 3rd grade, as that would be a little embarrassing for you.

    2. Eric Boehm’s Attempts To Help Fraud the Election Won’t Work(And are pretty embarrassing TBH)

      1. you misspelled pathetic.

    3. Thanks a lot, Nemo Aequalis! It’s people like YOU that are enabling Donald Trump to do his dirty work and to try to undermine Biden’s attempt to put this country onto a better road that it’s been on for the past several years. You don’t give a shit about democracy? Well, that’s pretty fucking obvious. I’m glad that there are enough decent people who are fighting against Donald Trump’s bullshit. He’s done enough criminal stuff. He’s a dangerous person who has no business running this country in the first place.

    4. The best quote of this election goes to Anderson Cooper:

      “Trump is an obese turtle on his back, flailing in the hot sun.”

      1. And Anderson Cooper eats ass…hey, he’s just like you!

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    6. President Donald Trump’s longshot efforts at getting courts to overturn the results of the presidential election in key states are ending in near-unanimous failure………..USA MORE INFORMATION.

    7. Lefties hate the Constitution and election laws.

      Poor Lefties know what is coming. Trump won and Democrats tried to steal the election via election fraud. Now Lefties are mad because they wont get away with it.

      I would cite all the sworn affidavits of election fraud but you Lefties can find the 100+ documents plus legal actions filed in WI, MI, PA, GA, AZ, NV….

      1. The legal actions which are being dismissed or abandoned right and left? They lack two essential elements: admissible supporting evidence and a viable legal theory.

    8. This thanksgiving I will concertedly remember the good people in America- the doctors and nurses who go to work every day to treat the idiots who use their dying breath to claim the disease that is about to kill them is fake.

      I will give thanks to the teachers and cops and other public servants who have kept us limping along despite people in both the administration and the Republican Senators and congresspeople who, like you, have said “fuck democracy”.

      And I will give thanks the kind old man about to assume the presidency after Trump and his ilk have done all they can to make it impossible.

      I will give thanks that one party chose to try to keep the country running as a democracy. A party I never voted for before 2020. It saddens and sickens me that simple, incurious people have caved in to believing the Giuliani- grade bullshit that, if unchecked, will give trump the mantle of dictator. The people most vocally anti-big government are trying to feed everything to a single man.

      I am thankful there are still good, curious people who won’t shutter the American Experiment for my kids. I will do everything I can to help them. God save America from its terminal stupidity and people like Mitch, Lindsey, and that bloated fucking narcissist who would just as soon kill either of those two with his bare hands if it served him. I pray we can untuck democracy.

  2. What if the Republicans who control the legislatures in PA, MI, WI, GA and AZ exercise their Constitutional right and pick Republicans as their state’s electors in the Electoral College?

    1. What if Jesus returns on a cloud and declares Trump his prophet?

      1. Jesus could return on a cloud and declare Trump the Anti-Christ, and the Religous Right would still bow and genuflect before idols of Trump. Who cares what Jesus says when Trump is their personal savior?

        1. Trump’s the heavyset orange guy. The one with the messiah complex and all the wide-eyed devotees was Obama.
          You’re welcome.

          1. Now do Justin Trudeau.

            Oh, wait. You never seem to care about or talk about your own country’s politics.

            1. Trudeau looks 140lb. soaking wet.

              1. He’s in Canada. Wouldn’t that turn him into a Fudgecsicle®? 🙂

            2. Trudeau is basically Prime Minsoter Zoolander. But less intelligent.

              1. ‘Prime Minster’

        2. You are another fucking asshole.

        3. Wow what you said is completely false based in fiction and has no actual evidence of anything you said. On the other hand I see the left forcing genuflecting onto others to kneel before BLM which is a terrorist organization run by Marxists witches real Nazis(George Soros) and go hand in hand with Antifa. The religious right youre talking about are people like me who know the truth of GOD and what America stands for. Biden is a racist peice of shit everybody knows it. Harris put more black kids in prison over minor crimes than anybody and makes fun of them. But we’re the racist cultists non democratic ones.

      2. What if you stop being an asshole?

    2. So what does Eric Boehm know that Sidney Powell doesn’t know?

      She was correct about Arthur Anderson’s destruction and she convinced AG Barr to reverse its outrageous prosecution of Flynn (after his DC law firm disgracefully urged him to plead guilty).

      1. “So what does Eric Boehm know that Sidney Powell doesn’t know?”

        Imma go out on a limb here and say that there is HUUUUUUGE (and bigly) incentive for all these lawyers to be insisting that they have the goods. And that incentive is fund raising.

        I attended a Tea Party protest once, like 10 years ago. Ever since, I have been on a dozen GOP mailing lists. I receive at least 3 fund raising emails a day now. Donald Trump, Trump Jr. Ivanka Trump. Friends of Trump. Trumpity Trump Trump.

        Every one of those emails goes like this one I received 10 minutes ago:


        If EVERY Patriot chips in $45, President Trump and Vice President Pence will have what it takes to DEFEND the Election and WIN!

        Can we count on you, *******? Your 1000%-IMPACT is LIVE for 1 HOUR!”

        Sydney is out there peddling this fantasy because her bosses want as big a war chest as possible before conceding. These war chests will pay off debt and if there is more money left over, will be used for power brokering.

        1. Bullshit. But nice try

        2. I can certainly imagine that of the republican operatives, but not sure that applies to career lawyers. Unless they are moving into politics it seems a strange thing to tie yourself so strongly to a client in a politically charged arena, unless you expect to win.

          1. Sidney Powell has always been credible.

            1. Follow the money. Sidney Powell is a grifter.

          2. Billable hours are billable hours even if you lose. Do you think defense attorneys only get paid when they win?

      2. >>So what does Eric Boehm know that Sidney Powell doesn’t know?

        this is my favorite question because Eric doesn’t understand how important the answer is.

        1. Right. It’ll show just were has coming from and through what paradigm

    3. Most of them already said they wouldn’t.
      Nor should they, unless large numbers of votes are proven fraudulent. Suspicion isn’t a high enough bar to ignore the voters.

      1. Suspicion isn’t even a high enough bar to investigate vote fraud.

        1. Just to launch domestic spying and impeachment

          1. It’s not the quality of the evidence, but the seriousness of the charge, as long as the target is Republican.

    4. Oh, fuck that!

    5. They don’t have that constitutional right.

      1. LOL, another liberal ass eater who’s never read the constitution.

    6. What if the Republicans who control the legislatures in PA, MI, WI, GA and AZ exercise their Constitutional right and pick Republicans as their state’s electors in the Electoral College?

      from the article: ‘…if a state sends in two slates of electors: one through the normal process as certified by the governor and one from some rogue state legislature. In that circumstance, the ECA provides that the governor’s slate of electors prevails. In Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, there are Democratic governors. Those governors would send in slates that would prevail..

      game over, right there…

    7. The time of choosing electors is fixed by federal statute as November 3, 2020. It is now too late to pick rogue Republicans in contravention of the voting totals.

  3. No shit it won’t work.

    “When Judge Brann asked what standard of scrutiny he should apply to the case, Giuliani replied: ‘The normal one,’ appearing not to understand the ways in which courts analyze government actions. Brann then asked whether he should apply ‘strict scrutiny,’ considering his clients allege equal protection violations. Giuliani conceded he did not know what “strict scrutiny” meant.

    Giuliani reportedly requested $20,000 a day for his legal representation.”

    L O L

    1. Giuliani conceded he did not know what “strict scrutiny” meant.

      I’m not saying the man is a genius, but he is a lawyer, so a claim that he didn’t know what strict scrutiny means smells like bullshit.

      1. Fake News, eh? Not surprised. Not much else to say to defend this shit show. If you read the context, it is obvious that he is completely lost.

        Go find the whole transcript. It is hilarious.


        1. Oh yeah. Twitter.

          1. Brann asked what standard of review he should apply in the case. “I think the normal one,” Giuliani replied.

            “Maybe I don’t understand what you mean by strict scrutiny,” Giuliani said at another point.

            At a different moment, Giuliani said: “I’m not quite sure what ‘opacity’ means. It probably means you can see.”

            The judge responded: “It means you can’t.”

            In a heated 45-minute speech delivered over a patchy telephone link, Mark Aronchick, an attorney representing several Pennsylvania counties, said that Giuliani was ignorant of the law, living in “some fantasy world” and pushing wild allegations that were “disgraceful in an American courtroom.”

            Aronchick concluded by urging Brann: “Dismiss this case. Please, dismiss this case. So we can move on.”

            Brann declined to do so, setting a deadline of 5 p.m. Wednesday for the president’s team to file a motion opposing the election officials’ attempt to dismiss the lawsuit.

            This, too, appeared to confuse Giuliani, who asked if the judge was inviting him to file the retooled third version of the lawsuit that he’d promised earlier.

            “This is a brief in opposition to their motion to dismiss,” Brann replied.

            “Oh!” Giuliani said. “Oh, sure, absolutely.”

            Giuliani’s appearance in the case came after Trump’s team cycled through multiple other attorneys. The president was initially represented in the case by two attorneys from the firm Porter Wright Morris & Arthur, who withdrew last week. Tim Murtaugh, the Trump campaign’s communications director, said that the firm had “buckled” under pressure from opponents of the president’s effort to challenge the election results. Two more attorneys representing Trump’s campaign in the case withdrew on Monday.

            Kerns also sought to pull out, but Brann declined to let her, saying at Tuesday’s hearing that he needed a lawyer involved in the case from the start to be present to answer his questions.

            Marc Scaringi, a lawyer based in Harrisburg, Pa., who is a conservative talk-radio host, also joined Trump’s team on Monday. Earlier this month, Scaringi voiced skepticism about whether Trump’s legal campaign could change the outcome of the election.

            “At the end of the day, in my view, the litigation will not work,” Scaringi said Nov. 7 on iHeartRadio. “It will not reverse this election.” A blog post on the website of Scaringi’s firm, which described Biden as the president-elect, was removed after Scaringi’s appointment to Trump’s legal team was announced.


            Reuters, Al Jazeera, the actual fucking transcripts…no source is going to tell you what you want to hear. You notice how none of the right wing blog-o-sphere is actually covering the outcomes of these cases? Because Trump’s bullshit doesn’t fly in court, when people have to provide evidence or go under oath.

            1. “Maybe I don’t understand what you mean by strict scrutiny,” Giuliani said at another point.

              I think it’s pretty obvious what he meant. Thanks for all the effort though.

              1. You clearly have a gift for seeing what you want to see.

                1. You’re seriously contending that a lawyer who went to law school and practiced law doesn’t know the legal definition of “strict scrutiny”?

                  1. Yes. And that is not my contention, it is Rudy’s.

                    “Maybe I don’t understand what you mean by strict scrutiny”
                    -RUDY FUCKING GIULIANI

                    1. -shrug- anyone reading that would know that he meant and that you’re being disingenuous.

                    2. “Maybe I don’t understand what you mean by strict scrutiny”
                      -RUDY FUCKING GIULIANI

                      sounds like Rudy’s playing mind games with the judge…reading between the lines is a game lawyers are skilled at beyond the normal human capacity…

                  2. You’re seriously contending that a lawyer who went to law school and practiced law doesn’t know the legal definition of “strict scrutiny”?

                    You have no idea how many incompetent lawyers there are out there.

                  3. I have literally no idea what point he was trying to make. Unlike in the movies, actual legal arguments don’t waste time with sarcasm or silly word games, except for perhaps jury trials where some theatrics might be warranted. But not in a judge-only hearing. Rudy probably used to know this stuff but his mind is clearly no longer pristine.

              2. And if you understood the different levels of scrutiny, it made no sense for Root and Toot Rudy to ask for “the normal one”. He wanted strict scrutiny, as the judge was trying to nudge him toward, but he failed to pick up on the hint.

            2. “It’s not fraud because the active coup participants are swearing they’re legit”.

              1. More like, “It’s FRAUD!”
                “Ok, please enter some of this fraud into evidence.”
                “Your honor, we have ammended our complaint so that it makes no mention of fraud.”
                “Get out. Dismissed.”
                “Fair enough. Got my $20k today either way.”

            3. Then there was the part where the judge had to tell the Trump legal team, “Write this down. That’s what lawyers do, they write things down.”

              1. Fake news!

      2. Was a lawyer. Years ago.

  4. Overturn the election? I wasn’t even aware we had finished it yet! Cool! Who won? Did Biden actually concede despite being told not to concede under any circumstances? Did we finally finish counting every vote?

    1. California is still accepting mail-in ballots until Friday.

      1. Because we all know California was landsliding to Trump before the meddling Democrats got in the way.

        1. Weren’t you shrieking “count every vote!” just before the election?

  5. Trump should shave his head and hole up in the White House like Colonel Kurtz while the native deplorables chant outside.

    Giuliani could be the errand boy.

  6. Trump’s Attempts To Undo the Election

    Dear lord. I don’t even know where to start with this one.

    1. Neither do I. According to Eric Boehm it is “corrosive” to try to make your case in court or for partisan authorities to exercise the discretion they have have granted. Nothing outside the rules at all. Reason authors just can’t seem to keep their metaphorical feet on the ground. I always learn more about the feelings of the authors than the alleged topics of their articles. More maturity and a sterner hand from editors might someday improve the articles. In the mean time I’m going to have to look for an alternative libertarian site for news and analysis.

      1. Oh has Trump actually tried to argue voter fraud in court?


        Seems not. For whatever strange reason, Trump’s lawyers are unable to make that case in front of courts. Not looking good for the anti-election team.

        Trump is corrosive because he makes a bunch of completely baseless and unsupported allegations that cause the less critical thinking among us to start believing things that aren’t true. Having a critical mass of people believe certain things that are not true will destroy any society that depends on democratic representation and a republican constitution.

  7. If the election goes to the House, it’s not “Democratically controlled” anymore — each state gets one vote.

    1. It’s not going to the House and Trump will lose.

      1. It ain’t his fault the election gettin’ loose,
        Gonna blame it on the Goose,
        Gonna blame it on the Juice.

    2. If the election goes to the House, it’s not “Democratically controlled” anymore — each state gets one vote.

      again from the article: ‘The rules under the Electoral Count Act are complicated and some are not clear, but this much is clear: you don’t go to a contingent election (where each state delegation gets only one vote) unless no candidate gets a majority.’

      again from the article:

  8. The problem with the Republicans’ scorched earth policy, is that they’re scorching the earth they need to plant their crops in. If they manage to succeed they can get Trump for four more years, but will destroy the electoral process forever. It means the public will never trust an election again. They are instituting rules that the Democrats will use against them. From this point forward an incumbent loser only needs to shit their diapers and they get to stay in office.

    As Nemo says, it’s not about the republic, it’s about revenge. Republicans are happy to burn their house do so long as Biden’s house burns too.

    The faster this party can be shoved through the woodchipper the better. Let actual conservatives come together to form a new center right party. The current one is stinking of gangrene.

    1. Yes, these will probably be the talking points the media uses if Trump somehow wins.

      I expect it will be one of the CNN news anchors saying “Republicans scored earth policy” while rioters burn things behind him

      1. “talking points”
        “the media”
        “rioters burn things”


        1. Does that somehow make anything I said unlikely?

          1. No, but DOL’s here to lie and fifty-cent, so he’s got to try.

    2. Yeah man go Brandybuck go!

      As I like to put it, the current Trumpista GOP regime, in the name of POWER-POWER-POWER, is willing to sell its soul, honesty, etc.! They will kill the goose (multi-party democracy, smooth and peaceful transfers of power) that lays the golden egg (polycentrism, political peace, cooperation, and, ultimately, a NON-dictatorial regime… = SOME degree of frickin’ political and other PEACE, for Christ’s sake).

      1. Ya like spying on the president elect is peaceful. GET real schill

    3. they can get Trump for four more years, but will destroy the electoral process forever.


      No really, please do this.

      1. And replace it with what?

        1. Oh, you can keep having your sham elections if you want, but the majority of people won’t see them as legitimate (which I hope is happening now, but it will be forgotten by next time) and won’t see the government as a legitimate authority. It looks like this is gradually happening and it gives me hope for the future.

        2. By drinking, of course; we are libertarians after all. Each candidate takes a shot, last person to pass out is our president. The contest will be on pay-per-view (non of this free C-SPAN shit) for all to observe its legitimacy. The candidate gets to chose their spirit of choice (must be 80 proof or higher) but their opponent(s) will be the ones to supply each other with the bottle(s). Cheap, quick and easy.

          1. I’ll drink to that!

            (When I went to school, some of us who were more pot-heads than booze-heads got to substitute bong hits for shots. It got kinda weird at times. What IS the exchange rate anyway?).

            1. I did both normally so I don’t have much in the way of advice other then watch out for the spins.

            2. I was clearly towards the pot-head end of the spectrum! To this day, I argue that no one ever died purely from the biochemistry of a pot overdose, but they DO die from too much booze in one go! I can recall a buddy of mine going the shots-only route, while I ended up “wussing out” with bong hits instead. He ended up like a floppy bag of protoplasm, and I was afraid he’d stop breathing! So I propped him up against a wall, sitting, and made sure his head didn’t flop down to the point where he couldn’t breathe! Kinda scary!

              Oh, the bonnie bygone days when we had very little money and even less sense! Now any more, if I drank 1/4th of what I drank at times then, I would be hurting pretty badly!

              1. Trump doesn’t drink, or so he has said. If this is what he’s like sober…..

      2. What electoral process? Do we have that here?

    4. If they manage to succeed they can get Trump for four more years, but will destroy the electoral process forever. It means the public will never trust an election again.

      They’re well on their way to doing that now, even though Trump isn’t going to prevail.


      (Reuters) – About half of all Republicans believe President Donald Trump “rightfully won” the U.S. election but that it was stolen from him by widespread voter fraud that favored Democratic President-elect Joe Biden, according to a new Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll.

      The Nov. 13-17 opinion poll showed that Trump’s open defiance of Biden’s victory in both the popular vote and Electoral College appears to be affecting the public’s confidence in American democracy, especially among Republicans.

      Altogether, 73% of those polled agreed that Biden won the election while 5% thought Trump won. But when asked specifically whether Biden had “rightfully won,” Republicans showed they were suspicious about how Biden’s victory was obtained.

      Fifty-two percent of Republicans said that Trump “rightfully won,” while only 29% said that Biden had rightfully won.

      1. Yes, that is disturbing! Here is more bad news:


        Poll: 62% of Americans Say They Have Political Views They’re Afraid to Share
        50% of strong liberals support firing Trump donors, 36% of strong conservatives support firing Biden donors; 32% are worried about missing out on job opportunities because of their political opinions

        SQRLSY translation: Soooo many of us piss and moan about how we have to keep our opinions to ourselves (especially at work). But then, fuckin’ asshole power-mongering hypocrites that we are, we’ll turn right around and opine that CEOs (with THEIR FUCKIN’ MONEY!!!) shouldn’t be able to make “wrong” political donations, without being fired!!!

        All of us assholes (we know who we are!!!) need to self-examine a bit here! WHY are things fucked up? Because WE are fucked up! Physicians, heal yourselves!

        1. In case that was TL;DR… If you don’t want to be oppressed, don’t oppress others! Duh!

          1. And if others oppress you anyway?
            Vote! lol

      2. People being suspicious of their government is a good thing.

        1. People being suspicious of WHICH PEOPLE IN their government is a good thing? In late 1920s Germany, many people were VERY suspicious of ANY Jews in, or ANYWHERE near, their government, but were NOT AT ALL suspicious of “good Aryans” in their government! You kinda have to qualify the details of this kind of thing!

          1. Wow, Godwin’s Law is really accelerating.

            And isn’t it the Democrats that push the whole “we have too many white people in government”? Sounds vaguely similar to your Nazi reference there…

            1. “…Democrats that push the whole “we have too many white people in government”

              Citation please! I have NOT heard of Nancy Pelosi (or other white Dem politicians) handing their jobs over to non-whites! Or even demanding that OTHER white Dem politicians hand their jobs over!

    5. LOL – after the Russians hacked our elections in 2016, why the fuck would you ever trust them again any way? I mean, they did manage to install Trump as their puppet, has Trump done anything to stop the Russians from hacking the elections again? Why would he? And if not Trump, then who has done anything to stop the Russians? The only thing I can’t figure out is why the Russians decided they preferred Biden this time.

      1. The only thing I can’t figure out is why the Russians decided they preferred Biden this time.

        Because Trump is a known con-man who out foxed the Grey Cardinal! That is why Putin fired the guy this year.

    6. A moderate Republican Party could win every time in this country. People love to forgive Republicans.

      Unfortunately they did not move to the center, they moved Nazi-wise, as was an entirely predictable consequence of their gerrymandering project.

      It’s healthy to keep in mind that this wasn’t so much a big plan. Bannon, an actual fascist, likes what he’s seeing, but he’s an opportunist. Most elected Republicans are just cowards who are afraid of losing their seat to a real Nazi. But of course there is absolutely nothing to stop the primary purges from continuing and the party from becoming something truly ugly. We may already be there. “Fuck democracy” is practically a moderate position for them now.

      1. The story of Trump is a roadmap for the actual fascists.

        1. You are incredibly dishonest, but also quite dimwitted.
          You are able to parrot words you don’t comprehend though.

        2. You and Tony wouldn’t know an actual fascist if he bit you on the ass.

      2. A moderate Republican Party could win every time in this country.

        A more moderate Republican than John McCain or Mitt Romney? We call those “Democrats”.

        1. Well yeah, they were both racist nazi homophobes. Duh!

      3. Yeah, because those “moderate” Republicans just keep winning elections.

        Funny you bring up gerrymandering. Guess which party controls more state legislatures next year? 😉

    7. The electoral apparatus in Democratically-controlled areas is obviously corrupt, this has been amply and repeatedly demonstrated. If tentacles extend into DHS and other administrative oligarchies, how can you object to an investigation now, you goddam hypocritical faux-libertarian poseur. Aren’t libertarians supposed to hate bureaucracy? It won’t happen once Biden takes over. Burn them down. Burn them down now. Fine by me. The Electoral College will survive and thrive on sunlight.

      1. Your rant could be lifted verbatim from some 1950s Jim Crow apologist. History repeats itself when you’re too fucking dumb to learn from it.

        1. You know the racism deflection no longer works, right?

          1. Works to do what? Why don’t you people stop advocating for disenfranchising black people and I’ll stop calling you racist?

            1. “you people”

              Why don’t you stop being a bigot.

              1. If you don’t want to be lumped together, why do you all wear the same red hats?

    8. 61% of Democrats thinking the Russians hacked the 2016 election, and three years of russian goose chase was just fine, but a few weeks of looking into irregularities in the 2020 election is scorched earth?

    9. Agreed. The GOP needs to die and the Democratic Party needs to split into the mainstream and progressive wings. Policy-wise, there are more differences between AOC and Biden then there are between Biden and Trump.

    10. New process already exists in block chain. Learn the facts before you write nonsense

    11. We have to get rd of al he progressives. America can survive their infestation.

  9. Once all the dust has settled, Trump can release a book detailing how it’s all everyone else’s fault that he lost. He can call it “What Happened”, or something like that.

    1. Forgot the obligatory link.

    2. Or get Emmys for documentaries about those nasty rigged Diebold/ I mean Dominion machines

      1. Nobel prize nominations are one thing, but the Emmys are too far to the left for a Trump nom.

        1. Fine, he and Kanye will steal a Grammy out of the hands of young woman.

          1. Only if they can get there before the hair sniffer in chief.

          2. Biden hates black people!

            1. But he LOVES young girls. A lot. A whole lot.

  10. “The president’s rhetoric and his campaign’s actions are corrosive”

    —-Eric Boehm

    From a libertarian perspective, this is truly horrifying. If Trump doesn’t get with the transition program soon, it may inhibit President Biden’s ability to pass trillions in stimulus, to pass the Green New Deal, to pass Medicare for All, and to launch the War on Guns our country so desperately needs.

    . . . Is this what we’re supposed to think?

    If President Trump doesn’t change his ways and real soon, the progressive kids may start criticizing him. And then they’ll never think he’s cool! And what could be more important than that?

    1. More corrosion needed.

      1. Enough to dissolve the entire progressive movement.

    2. President Biden’s ability to pass trillions in stimulus, to pass the Green New Deal, to pass Medicare for All, and to launch the War on Guns

      If you think Biden’s going to do all that, you obviously don’t know anything about boiling frogs, eating elephants, or tightening ratchets. Crying hysterically about what all Biden is going to do looks foolish when all Biden is going to do is get the ball rolling on those initiatives and then the Democrats can point and say, “see, Biden didn’t do all those horrible things you said he was going to do!”

      Take the “Biden’s going to seize all your guns!” nonsense. Biden’s not going to seize all your guns, he’s just going re-institute the “assault weapons” ban, close the “gun-show loophole” to outlaw the casual sale or transfer of guns without a background check (if you want to give your kid your old .22, you’ll have to go to an FFL holder and both of you have to pass a background check), do away with the time limit on how long the feds have to conduct a background check (they’re busy folks you know, it might take them a year or two to get around to your case), limit the number of guns you can buy in a given amount of time (probably one gun every 30 days and no more than 3 guns per year – nobody needs more than 3 guns and if you’re buying more than that you’re obviously making straw purchases for terrorists) and perhaps one or two other regulatory refinements “just to normalize the gun laws across state lines” (with the stricter laws taking precedent over the laxer naturally). See, Biden won’t be “seizing your guns” he’ll just be moving one step closer to the ultimate goal.

      1. “From a libertarian perspective, this is truly horrifying. If Trump doesn’t get with the transition program soon, it may inhibit President Biden’s ability to pass trillions in stimulus, to pass the Green New Deal, to pass Medicare for All, and to launch the War on Guns our country so desperately needs.”

        These fears are so ridiculous. Joe Biden is a corporate democrat, not AOC. The gun fears are especially ridiculous. It seems like if you can’t buy grenade launchers at a gun show then “the libs are taking all our hunting rifles”.

        1. Plus, you have Mitch McConnell and the blue-dog Democrats to block all this stuff even if Georgia gets a democratic Senator or two.

          1. You’re counting on the principles of senate Republicans?

      2. “Crying hysterically about what all Biden is going to do looks foolish when all Biden is going to do is get the ball rolling on those initiatives and then the Democrats can point and say, “see, Biden didn’t do all those horrible things you said he was going to do!”


        Did you think Trump would try to repeal ObamaCare (and come up a hair short), slash $772 billion from Medicaid, Coordinate with Putin to defeat ISIS in Syria, renegotiate NAFTA, launch a trade war with China, and do his best to build a wall, too?

        Because he promised to do all of those things before he was elected, and . . . um . . . if he didn’t accomplish all of them, it wasn’t for lack of trying. Wasn’t the longest federal government shutdown in U.S. history over funding for Trump’s wall?

        That’s actually pretty typical of presidents who want to run on their records–and it usually happens within their first 100 days in office.

        Chief executives do enjoy greater rates of success with Congress early on. This is not fully explained by a public opinion bounce (most incoming presidents are popular) or by strategic choices about which bills to support during the first 100 days. Her research concludes that presidents do enjoy a “100-day honeymoon” with Congress and that their influence during this period is demonstrably higher than later on in the administration.

        —-Five Thirty-Eight


        P.S. Do you expect the way votes were counted in the Georgia senate races to be substantially different from the way the presidential election went in that regard? Do you expect it not to be close?


        Do you know the results of that election already?

      3. The Democrats you have in your head are not the ones who exist in the world. You’ve been made stupid by an endless supply of bullshit.

        Republicans don’t have any ideas but “Democrats are going to steal your bodily fluids.” Ask yourself why that is.

        1. Republican ideas work. Look at how much better the economy got under Trump. Until democrat governors needlessly shutdown their states in a despotic effort to erode our individual rights.

          1. Trump didn’t make any economic policy. Sheesh.

            Thanks for basically acknowledging that Trump rode Obama’s economic boom… until he had enough time to make his own mark.

    3. Fvckin B Team, man

  11. Search for “Abraham Aiyash” “dox”

  12. I love a good Eric B. article. Brings out all the snowflakes who can’t seem to comprehend that people hate their orange king.

    1. Don’t your knees hurt?

      1. Jeff can’t physically get on his knees anymore without popping his hips out of joint, so he just waves at his monitor.

      2. You got some orange on your lip there, buddy.

        1. Considering how much time you spend eating Biden’s ass, you shouldn’t talk.

    2. >>I love a good Eric B. article

      I love Eric B. and Rakim.

    3. raspberrydinners is so out of it, xe brags about hating Trump more than caring about the issues.

      Isn’t that basically the definition of willful stupidity?

  13. My only sadness is we will never get to see what Biden’s refusal to concede “at all costs” would have looked like.

    1. Throwing his jello at White House security and summoning corn pop?

        1. It would be funny if there really was a Corm Pop and someone brought him out in public and he told a story about how he beat the shit out of Biden and made Biden beg for mercy.

    2. Biden refusing to concede is brave and embodies the spirit of America, because we can’t call the election until all the votes are counted. Trump refusing to concede is corrosive and petty and all he’s doing is attempting to undo the election.

      1. Read the actual court cases Guiliani is arguing. They are weak and ridiculous.

        1. Then they will fail, as they should if they are weak and ridiculous. And then everyone can move on, judging by how long “Russia collusion” has stuck around, sometime around 2050.

  14. I was thinking that this sets a horrible precedent that from in then Ds not just have to win, but wing by such a wide margin that the Rs can’t pull this shit to “win”. This permanently damages our country. Then I thought about 2000 and realized that we have been there for 20 years.

    1. Oh bullshit and it’s necessary to root out any corruption wherever it leads. The dems have been so corrupt for so long now and it’s time to remove them from power. Anyone voting dem now is just as morally bankrupt.

      And 2000 – well you proggies split the Florida vote and fucked Gore, and Gore didn’t even win his home state. Shows you that people fucking hated him and his corrupt father. Bush won despite the dems and media trying to fuck the panhandle voters over.

      1. I’m sure Trump’s refusal to abide by the emoluments clause, concealing over $400 million in debt, putting his children into positions of power and authority within the government and overriding the security clearance process to do so, and the president and his family having a campaign rally on the white house lawn all must concern you greatly, then.

        1. concealing over $400 million in debt

          List your debts here, please.

          1. Who the hell would lend him money?

            1. The SBA, several mortgage companies, a private fund, and your mother.

              1. Mom jokes? Really?

                You’re mom’s so heavy that Neil DeGrasse Tyson demoted Jupiter.

                1. Dayyyummmm.

                  Yo mama’s so fat, she brought a spoon to the Super Bowl.

            2. Banks who want to make money.

          2. All other presidents in the last 70 years or so have done so. And they also divested. You don’t care about corruption. Stop pretending.

            1. You have the balls to vote for corrupt politicians and then lecture someone else about corruption?

              1. I voted Jo. Still trying to get the libertarian party over the 5% hump.

                Just criticize Trump for being corrupt. C’mon, it will get easier as time goes on. The first heresy is the hardest.

    2. 2000 was genuinely very close, there were actual bad and confusing ballots in use, and the president’s brother was the governor of the state doing the recount.

      2020 the incumbent loses by a landslide. He then shits his pants and cries very loudly. How is this like that?

        1. Juice, you are making this too easy for me.

          Trump. Trump is the one who called this margin of victory a landslide, though Joe also won the popular vote, unlike Trump. Woops.


          1. Both elections were very close. Anyone who calls either one a landslide is full of shit.

            1. I agree. I should have put landslide in quotes.

    3. Republicans have been there for decades. It is an aphorism among Republicans, “Democrats can’t cheat if it’s not close.”

    4. The D’s are the ones who legalized voter fraud. Next time around, the R’s will have court precedent on their side as well. Karma’s a bitch.

  15. Does trump have active suites in any state that has certified it’s election? I don’t think so, so there are no “election results” he’s trying to overturn yet. Reason is supposed to be a little better than cnn, stop lying to people for ‘orange man bad’ points.

  16. “but a breakaway faction of Republican state lawmakers is calling for the state to postpone certifying the results until a special audit of the election can be finished.”

    A “breakaway faction”? Why doesn’t everybody want to make sure the results are accurate?

    1. That is common argument, saying we should all just wait for all the accusations to be looked into. But that has already happened and it was determined by all election experts to be w clean election.

      1. You are like OBL without the cute hashtags. Did you two date?

      2. Pretty sure that’s not so.

      3. The government fact checking itself. Cute.

    2. Because one side lost, and they are doing everything they can to squeeze some cash out of their cult before it’s all over.

      1. You do understand that the vote to determine the next president has not yet been held, right?

        1. For all practical purposes, it already has.

          1. You have no idea how the president is selected, do you?

            How many times did YOU vote? We know it was more than once, so don’t lie.

  17. “I, frankly, thought they would surveil the landscape and decide this wasn’t worth trying,” says Walter Olson.

    Ha. Because you miss the whole point, Walter.

    “Even if Trump fails, this prolonged attack on the fundamental democratic process is potentially corrosive.”

    Aye, that’s the rub. You nailed it Eric. Trump lost. And he’s such a whining baby that he’ll bring it all down along with him, because in his pin-heads eye view, it’s only he that matters. It’s all worth trying to Trump, because he will get as much pleasure from destruction as he’d ever get from winning, if he can’t be the winner. And if it all gets ruined, he’ll be back with his “only I can fix it.”

    Besides, this is all the next grift. It will always be about how the deep state stole the election, so tune into Trump TV tomorrow to learn how bad it is, and send your checks into Trump Family!

    You’ve read the commenters here…they’ll be lining up to send him their money. All these red staters…they’ve hated forever all things New York because New Yorkers are con men. And in the end they fell in love with the biggest NY con man ever.

    1. And yet even if any of that were true (it’s not you’re a lying piece of shit) he’s still better than the morally bankrupt shameless self righteous dumbass democrats trying to shove socialism down everyone’s throat, and woke scolds who think they have any power. Seriously do you not understand that we are laughing at you?

      You voted for Biden you idiot. The dumbest man on the planet. Him and his sociopath protege couldn’t even get into real colleges, just D list wannabe schools.

      1. Trump was a psychopathic bully at school who would be everyone’s least favorite manager at Taco Bell if not for Daddy’s money.

        1. And Biden locked thousands of black men in cages and called them super predators with his crime bills. What’s your point?

    2. Trump lost. And he’s such a whining baby that he’ll bring it all down along with him, because in his pin-heads eye view, it’s only he that matters. It’s all worth trying to Trump, because he will get as much pleasure from destruction as he’d ever get from winning, if he can’t be the winner. And if it all gets ruined, he’ll be back with his “only I can fix it.”

      Now substitute Hillary for Trump, and tell me what changes.

      1. lol at both of you. Make sure to make those checks out to the Trump 2020 campaign. They got a lot of debt to pay off!

        1. I’m pretty sure they’ve already given to the “Election Fraud Defense Fund.” Now that’ll be money well spent! Just not spent on anything to do with supposed election fraud.

          1. Look at that. De Oppresso Loser and Jackoff Ace are teaming up.

            1. Jeff and Buttplug are working the thread hard. Boehm’s saviors.

      2. IT WAS HIS TURN!

      3. Hillary conceded the day after and Trump has a smooth transition. There were not dozens of suits in numerous states trying to get legal ballots tossed.

        1. you weren’t alive in 2000?

        2. No, there were just endless hearings at taxpayer expense and a frivolous impeachment.

        3. HiLIARy saying she conceded was a lie, just like everything else that comes from her LieCheatSteal party.
          It’s not conceding to continue to claim the election was stolen four years after the fact.

      4. Reptilian ancestry.

  18. >>Americans should trust the system to get it right in the end.

    you don’t.

  19. It’s funny to see a bunch of erstwhile revolutionaries arguing, half of them arguing that Trump is the greatest politician of all time because he can get the government to do great things, and the other half arguing that Trump is the worst politician of all time because he’s destroying our political institutions and preventing the government from doing great things.

    I personally feel Trump is an awful politician because he’s not destroying our political institutions fast enough. But at least he’s trying, which is more than I can say about his competition.

    1. I like him for destroying institutions.

      1. “The blacks are looting ahhh cities burning down someone get some law and order before I shit myself!”

        1. >>ahhh cities

          not a bad Foghorn Leghorn I woulda stuck a “u” in there … auhhh

        2. …as the city mayor [D] insists that the federal government not to get involved. At which point does it become a seditious act requiring U.S. military intervention against a city mayor. For Democrats it’s when a single person doesn’t sign up for healthcare insurance. For Republicans it’s farm MORE CONSTITUTIONAL.

          1. You’re a very misguided person.

  20. “Trump’s Attempts To Undo the Election Won’t Work”

    That depends on the goal.

    If the goal is to overturn election results, his efforts are delusional, dumb, and doomed.

    If the goal is to cultivate support among disaffected, uneducated, superstitious, obsolete slack-jaws, and to lather a bunch of birther-style bigots toward subscribing to a hayseed cable channel . . . it might work.

    1. Artie late to the party as usual. Fake lawyer, fake poll watcher, fake reverend.

      1. What are you talking about? The good Reverend is a prophet of our times and a spiritual leader.

    2. Don´t forget the goal of raising boatloads of money.

  21. It’s amazing to me that we’re still in a place where we don’t know how the Trump cult will react when Biden really is sworn in. We’re still in denial mode. (The better to free the cultists of some of their disposable money, I suppose. And dispose of it they will.)

    What’s it gonna be? Anyone want to let me in on the plan? Will it be more like the People’s Temple, or more like Oklahoma City?

    1. I guess you’ll have to wait and be surprised.

      1. I won’t be surprised. Rightwing terrorists all act the same.

        They’ve never been so well-armed before, though. Thanks libertarians and NRA. You went and built yourself an insurgency.

        Have you been doing your monkey bars? Terrorism takes cardio.

        1. >>Rightwing terrorists all act the same.

          lol all 3 of them?

          1. All of them mostly. Left wing terrorists can’t get presidents on their side.

            1. Bailing them out after they get arrested isn’t support? Though, technically neither Biden nor Harris are president at this point. On the other hand, Obama did order those terrorists intimidating people at the polls in Philly be protected when he assumed the office.

              At any rate, if you believe what you say, why aren’t you scared?

        2. Leftwing terrorism is way more widespread.

    2. They won’t do anything other then say mean and untrue things about Biden and Harris.

      1. I can’t wait.

    3. We know exactly how Trump supporters will react when Biden gets sworn in: they’ll grumble and otherwise be peaceful.

      We also know exactly how Democrats react when their candidate loses: they become violent, loot, and burn things.

  22. This is not so hard to understand. If you were POTUS Trump, don’t you think you want to be able to tell the 73MM+ people that voted for you that you never stopped fighting for them for a moment? There are litigation and recounts to be done, and done expeditiously. Since we don’t have certified counts in many states, there are undoubtedly votes that will be thrown out. Enough votes to hand POTUS Trump reelection? Who knows. But get the votes counted and the litigation done. That much, I do know.

    December 14th will be here soon enough. The Electoral College will vote, and that will be that. As for any formal transition, assuming it is needed, it can start later that week. After all, government doesn’t really move all that fast, does it?

    GA must be the focus. To stop a Biden/Harris agenda, you need the Senate to do that.

    1. You need to stop pretending that this is all normal. It’s a clearly lost election, except Trump’s monumental whininess has 1/3rd of the country convinced that the election is illegitimate. And it’s not like he’s going to go on FOX News and explain to them why they were wrong. This is not healthy for a civilized society, and you know it.

      1. Oh boy Tony is here to tell us what’s normal. Let me tell you what is not normal Tony. It is not normal to lie and claim that Trump was a Russian mole or that they had anything to do with his win four years ago. It is not normal to pursue this line of thinking with a special counsel, investigations, and ultimately an impeachment based on two bogus charges. It is not normal to use a disease as a weapon to win an election. It is not normal for democrats to meekly go away after losing. What is normal is that democrats have collectively decided to shit all over this country and to hell with anyone who gets in their way.

        Therefore no matter what happens I will not submit to left wing autocratic rule because they are traitors to their country and the American people.

        You can expect more resistance in the years to come. Remember payback in politics is hell.

        1. Let’s clear up a few things shall we?

          You don’t like that Trump was impeached for leveraging foreign aid for campaign dirt on Joe Biden. You don’t like that Democrats were mean to him. So I described the problem, and I do not think that seeking revenge against Democrats who dared to practice oversight of the most corrupt president in history solves any of it. It just makes it worse.

          Sometimes you lose elections. You must be new at this. Imagine losing an election to Donald fucking Trump. Imagine how that felt.

          She still conceded the night of the election you crazy bitch.

          1. LOL, Tony’s talking about “oversight.” The basis for so much of this is that poll watchers were locked out of observing and providing “oversight.”

            “She still conceded the night of the election you crazy bitch.”
            Voter fraud was still illegal in 2016 and was very rare. But that was then and this is now.

            1. Yeah it’s only fraud when you lose. And other observations from people not mature enough for democracy.

              1. Voter fraud is legal now. It was illegal in 2016.

                WHAT ARE YOU HIDING? If you had nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear from the poll watchers, yet you slimy Democrats kept them away, illegally.

                1. Not mature enough for innocent until proven guilty either, huh?

                  1. Tony sticks his fingers in his ears, closes his eyes, and hums melodically “blah blah blah, I…am…not…listening” when presented with overwhelming evidence.

                    Real mature, Tony. SMH

      2. Tony, normally I don’t bother. POTUS Trump is using every legal means afforded a candidate to contest an agonizingly close election. There is nothing illegitimate or unhealthy about that. Now, if after the recounts have occurred and the legal processes concluded, it turns out POTUS Trump truly lost the election…so be it. Life goes on.

        Al Gore had 39 days. The Republic managed to survive. POTUS Trump gets the same deal. Besides, wasn’t it Crooked Hillary who said not to concede under any circumstance? Sagacious advice from the old biddy.

        1. Not comparable situations. Gore Bush was agonizingly close. This is not. It’s tens of thousands of votes in all the swing states and a six million popular vote difference. This is one man’s emotional breakdown. One third of the country thinks the election was stolen. Are you going to volunteer to educate those people so that the most important government on earth isn’t destabilized by lies from day 1?

      3. People distrusting their government IS healthy.

        1. They didn’t distrust it when their guy was in charge. They set it on the undesirables.

    2. Time for conservatives/Trumpers to look forward. After the 1964 landslide against Goldwater, his supporters adopted a slogan:
      “27 million voters can’t be wrong.” There was even a “27” gold pin to wear in your lapel to virtue signal with. It took 16 years of hard grassroots work but eventually Ronald Reagan won election and kept conservatism on top for a while. “Trumpism without Trump” may prove viable in the future, but not if the message doesn’t get honed and made coherent. “We was robbed” should not be the message.

      1. This guy gets it.

        [Not a bot]

      2. Yea, totes dude.
        This is totes just a normal election and no big deal, nor a phase shift in our politics/governance.
        Keep the faith, comrade.

      3. The only difference is the Democrats legalized voter fraud.

  23. And in other news; Georgia has ALREADY found thousands of UN-counted votes and a good possibility of 70,000 wrongly counted votes and mail-in votes that are so suspicious (no envelope fold – perfect “printed” dots) a 5th grader would call them fraudulent.

    Whether it flips the state or not; Trump certainly wasn’t wrong about election fraud.

    1. Everyone is in a conspiracy except Donald Trump, who is the honest one.

      Just apply a little basic sensory observation. Jesus man!

      1. Stop eating Biden’s ass, it will make you retarded.

    2. Georgia’s a goner since apparently they don’t have to check signatures on the recount. So you’re going to get substantially the same result.

  24. https://twitter.com/NewDayForNJ/status/1329178380512751619?s=19

    BREAKING VOTING IRREGULARITIES IN MICHIGAN—3,000 precincts reporting votes cast up to 350% above those registered.

    You don’t have to be a statistician to know that those numbers don’t exist in the real world. Audits are starting to shed the light of Truth.

  25. This whole article, from the headline down, is an example of how your personal biases can screw up what should be a fairly standard explanatory piece.

    Trump isn’t trying to overturn the election. Nor is he trying to prevent the election results from being certified.

    He *disputes* the results. He has gone to the courts with . . . whatever evidence he can muster. The courts disagreed.

    This whole ‘he’s trying to overturn the election’ is based on an assumption that the election is legitimate – and it may be. But he’s not trying to overturn an legitimate election. He’s trying to prevent a fraudulent one from being certified.

    He might be wrong. He probably is wrong. But you’re impugning his motives. Your starting assumption is that he’s trying to hold on to power and resorting to delaying tactics.

    You’ve never met the guy. And if you’ve paid attention to his work over the last 4 years (instead of what the Progressive’s have been screeching) – ie, looked at what he’s actually done – you’d maybe give the guy a little benefit of the doubt on why he’s doing what he’s doing.

    So, depending on your priors, he’s either trying to overturn an election or he’s trying to preserve democracy. Same facts. Same evidence. Two different movies.

    1. Here’s what I don’t get Boehm – what’s the rush? Why is everyone so pushing for Trump to concede RIGHT NOW!

      If you’re right – then let it play out. We’ve got a month before the deadline anyway. Let him thrash around and let the truth – whatever it is – come out. Don’t be so quick to shovel over that coffin. If the man’s dead, he’s dead.

      1. Why?
        Because everyone knows the fix was in.
        The real story here is why the Ds, media, Big Tech, and swamp denizens are so desperate to keep anything from being looked at or discussed.
        Why go to such great lengths to cover up what isn’t there?

        1. They’ve already been caught in the first lie, that there is no such thing as election fraud.
          Now they’re worried that the fall-back, moved-goalpost position of “not enough fraud to change things”, will unravel, too.

  26. https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1329250870878478340?s=19

    During the WI Election Commission meeting to approve the recount tonight, Republicans are pushing back on WI Democrats who want to limit observers to a ridiculous degree. 1 of the Democrats (Thorsen) said “voters have rights, observers don’t”. Gee that doesn’t sound shady at all!

    1. “voters have rights, observers don’t”

      Which is a way of saying, “I’m going to throw everyone’s rights away for my corrupt political goals”

  27. https://twitter.com/DiamondandSilk/status/1329143637691797506?s=19

    If they are discovering new uncounted votes in Georgia for President Trump, how many new uncounted votes are sitting on the sideline for Republicans who are running for Senate in GA?

  28. https://twitter.com/RealMiniAOC/status/1329134900331515905?s=19

    Saying there is no widespread voter fraud is the same as watching cities burn and calling them mostly peaceful protests.

    1. AKA Trump Derangement Syndrome.

  29. https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1329278134076715012?s=19

    BREAKING: Wayne County MI election board Republicans rescind votes to certify, file affidavits that their families were threatened

    1. The attempted recissions are completely ineffectual. The votes in Wayne County have been certified, and it is now up to the canvassers.

  30. https://twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1329154617716789249?s=19

    Check out this visual! So the NYTimes keeps a log of every change to their Presidential vote tallies. (We believe they get their info from Dominion Clarity)

    Now… check out the wild ride in Wisconsin where @realDonaldTrump is leading by 51% all night until a dump at 3:42AM

  31. Abolishing the Electoral College would transform our constitutional republic into a pure democracy. And from our widely diverse population the result would be precisely like having two whites and a Black voting on who will be the boss..https://bit.ly/3lKiW4H

  32. “indicators that suggest this was not a rogue action, but a carefully planned one.”

    So…Trump doesn’t watch the news? Sounds like Boehm is another unhinged liberal conspiracy theorist.

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  34. Trump doesn’t watch the news? Sounds like Boehm is any other unhinged liberal conspiracy theoris


  35. “indicators that suggest this was not a rogue action, but a carefully planned one.”

    So no proof, just indications. Like having more votes than voters is an indication of fraud that Boheim says does not exist because twitter said so.

  36. With so much evidence of electoral fraud, the 2020 election requires a do-over.

    All manually in person cast, confirmed and observed.

    If Biden really won, he’ll win again. Except for all the evidence of fraud working against him.

    1. True, MASSIVE evidence of MASSIVE fraud, and of course it’s mathematically, statistically IMPOSSIBLE in too many ways to mention that Biden could have won. Their insanity drove them to overplay their hand so badly that many have noticed, even those who honestly voted for Biden that have now turned AGAINST him as his enemy because they love America more.
      The incredible amount of fraud due to four years of Trump Derangement Syndrome preparation by his lunatic enemies is greater than any in history.

      1. Where is the supporting evidence for all this squawking about fraud? Please be specific.

        1. People here have been providing link after link to the evidence of fraud.

          Trumps team of lawyers have released a statement.

          As you continue to refuse to consider the evidence you continue to be a bigot.

  37. I would just like to comment on how hilariously poorly this article aged. I know that nobody could have predicted the reversal of the reversal, but still. Fucking hilarious.

    1. True, and sadly to be expected from those infected with the mental illness of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

    2. The Giuliani/Powell press conference the 19th leads me to believe Trump has the evidence. Trump had huge leads in the evening, they stopped the count, improbably favorable Biden votes show up and Biden is leading in the morning. In several swing states.

      The establishment narrative is Trump lost, and they want you to believe there’s no evidence.

      Biden is acting like he’s in on the steal, by not insisting on honesty and transparency in the election and insisting Trump’s court claims deserve to be hear. Instead he attacks Trump, and insists on access to security briefings. This election isn’t over.

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  39. An interesting feature of the Trump strategy is the focus on throwing out votes in area with large minority populations. In Michigan, the Republican electors were initially willing to certify largely white suburbs but unwilling to certify urban areas with larger minorities populations. Now the Trump campaign has paid for recounts in WI but only in Dane and Milwaukee Counties. Again areas with larger minority populations.

    Republican have over the last decade sought to suppress minority votes and now Trump takes it one step farther seeking to have minority votes thrown out.

    1. Telling the truth about more serious factors like illegality in this unserious attack are conveniently omitted, probably saying any insane thing due to Trump Derangement Syndrome. Only blind, corrupt bigotry tries so idiotically to accuse the GOP/Trump of racism, ironic in view of old white Shrillary and the Biden corpse, typical of racist Dems vs the far greater minority representation of the GOP than corrupt slavery loving Biden and Dems desperate to keep their negroe slaves on the plantation and dirt poor vs the GOP seeing to see them self-sufficient and prosperous. Tell bigoted lies if it makes you feel good about your corruption, but what Trump’s rather doing is saving us from the very massive fraud the corrupt, evil crook Biden corpse boasted/promised he’d deliver.

      1. Who is really suffering from TDS? I say those like yourself that Trump has deluded into thinking there is conspiracies all over to stop Trump. You want to challenge votes then challenge them all not just those in minority communities. Challenge the suburbs and recount all the Wisconsin counties. But don’t treat the American people like mushrooms, because we can see what going on.

  40. Eric’s bigoted Trump Derangement Syndrome blindness is showing. If he weren’t so corrupted by that he’d see that this election is by far the most grossly, gravely FRAUDULENT in our HISTORY with MANY affidavits swearing to gross irregularities from his fellow lunatic Trump haters. Trump is about all that’s standing between us and the communist takeover by the evil, corrupt Biden/Harris/DNC/media cabal. Only God can save us. The question is whether he will give us the aforesaid evil, corrupt Biden/Harris/DNC/media cabal that is still less than our sins against him deserve, or if he will have mercy and spare us from that by miraculously driving back the evil, corrupt fraud vile Eric and company are trying to foist on Americans. If the latter, Eric should realize his arms are far too short to box with God, as he and his fellow corrupters may find out flat on their backs.

    1. just occurred to me that if they looked for (and justified evidence of) election fraud the way they look for institutional racism… we might have some different action happening on this file

  41. Maybe it’s nostalgia but I remember the old “Hit-and-Run” as sharper, funnier, far less partisan, and with better spelling and grammar. Or perhaps that’s just my bias in missing the handful of kindred spirits who had long concluded both major political parties were full of shit, followed closely by the LP.

    The “election fraud” has become a Rorschach test of sorts. Boehm is making the points I would expect a “Mark 1, Mod 1” Reason columnist to make, e.g., a decentralized system is harder to manipulate, there isn’t any solid evidence of fraud in a scale sufficient to overturn the election, etc. And seriously, if you’re going to rig elections, how do you blow the down ballot seats? I realize political operatives are dumb, but steal the presidency and leave the Senate to a runoff in Georgia? Trump is joke. Biden is a different joke. Evil? Sins? Take that shit to some Lou Dobbs subreddit. This is H&R.

    1. It’s almost as if they planned for needing x+a bit amount of fraud, x being the 2016 margins and had to fill out a bunch of ballots really quickly at the absolute last minute when Trump voters came out in x+a metric fuckton numbers. Thus how Biden mysteriously managed to beat out Obama’s margins in 4 swing state cities.

  42. Georgia Republican Poll Watcher Discovered Recount Error Off By More Than 9,000 Votes For Biden

    Biden just lost the lead in Georgia. Let’s see how long it takes unreason traitors and Lefty media to report this “fake news”.

    COUNT EVERY BALLOT seemed to work better for Trump than Biden.

    1. Did you even read the story you linked? Oh, and AP and other news outlets have been tracking the Georgia recount where the gap is still 12,781.

    2. too local.

    3. Honestly if all Trump asked for was that, this whole discussion would be different. Screaming at the top of one’s lungs for literally years that EVERYTHING is “fake/scam/fraud/rigged/lyin/cheatin” and filing dozens of lawsuits that can’t even make it past the first stage of review is not the same as “he just wants to make sure the elction is conducted fairly.” It’s more like ” he will never stop screaming that everything is fraud and his supporters have been conditioned to believe it.” PLEASE for the sake of sanity stop pretending you are just “patiently asking for a normal verification process” because it’s not, he’s not and you’re not.

  43. In a couple years you’re probably going to be wishing he had succeeded.

  44. 1) Trump is the President until the mid January.
    2) Biden will not be the President Elect until after the Electoral College votes in mid December.
    3) Currently Biden is the projected winner of the Presidential election.
    4) Trump is challenging the unofficial results of the election in the courts.
    5) Challenges to the election have until the Electoral College in mid December to make their case.
    6) Every election has some instances of election fraud.
    7) Every election has some instances of errors counting the votes.
    8) No one knows the extent of #6 and #7.
    9) Probabilities favor a Biden win over a Trump win.
    10) Trump is not destroying democracy by challenging the unofficial results.
    11) Trump is not destroying democracy by refusing to concede to Biden media projection of a win.
    12) There is hyperbole from both Republicans and Democrats.
    13) There is hyperbole from the corporate media.

    1. It’s an unprecedented claim of election illegitimacy on the part of a sitting president. You don’t have to normalize his behavior. It’s banana republic shit, and the only thing that will prevent him from seizing power is the strength of institutions that oppose his attempt. The only fact that supports those institutions is that the election wasn’t close enough to steal.

      Either you think it’s fine for every election to be litigated in court no matter how flimsy the excuse, or you think there are special rules for Trump because he’s such a big baby and we reward tantrums.

      1. The Democrat ass eaters in Democrat-run cities are pulling the banana republic shit, and you know it. Trump is protecting our institutions by fighting the slimy swamp creatures that infest them. We cannot allow the corruption of our institutions!

        I’ll bet even Tony himself voted more than once.

        1. Nice General Ripper impression you insane brownshirt freak.

      2. I honestly don’t see the problem. He hasn’t sent troops to confiscate the ballots, he’s just pursuing his legal options.

        I mean, sure, I can see why Democrats aren’t happy that he didn’t instantly concede, or that he’s exposing all the shady things that happened in the conduct of this election. But he’s only been operating within the limits of his legal rights.

        Have a bit of patience. I’m pretty sure this will all be resolved faster than happened in 2000.

        1. He’s not exposing anything but the fact that Rudy uses cheap hair dye.

          People are dying of a pandemic and our executive branch is prioritizing soothing an insane person’s hurt feelings over managing a proper transition. You’re asking for the country to stop working because one man’s feelings were hurt.

        2. Trump´s legal claims are frivolous, as evinced by the dismissals and abandonments occurring right and left.

          The burden is on those squawking fraud to prove it by admissible evidence in at least three states where Biden´s margins are in the tens of thousands. Trump needs to man up and face reality. As John Adams observed, facts are stubborn things.

          1. Those were private lawsuits and mostly filed BEFORE Nov. 3.

            1. A party invoking the jurisdiction of a court must prove his standing to sue. That requires, among other things, a showing that a ruling in the plaintiff´s favor will redress the injury complained of. The lawsuit is otherwise an idle ceremony.

              If the complaint is that the result of a state´s election is tainted by fraud, the plaintiff must show that the number of fraudulent votes exceeds the apparent winner´s margin of victory. Otherwise there is no redress and accordingly, no viable lawsuit.

              The electoral college math is such that Trump would need to make that showing in at least three states where Biden leads by tens of thousands of votes. The arithmetic is insurmountable.

              1. This is 100% spot on. But you’re wasting your time. Trump says it’s fraud, so to his followers, it’s fraud. None of this matters to them. Guiliani is up there openly displaying a frightening lack of basic knowledge about law/procedure/standards, cases are getting tossed left and right, and this is from the team that nominates people who never tried a case to be federal judges. They simply don’t care. All they know is that Daddy Trump said so. As long as he continues (as he has for a decade) to insist that everything is rigged against him, they eat it up and always will. They just pretend to be “patiently awaiting the process to play out” as if they ever will accept the result.

      3. It’s also unprecedented that a no-show of a politician would beat the previous high water mark of voting fervor for a member of his party but ONLY in the biggest cities in the swing states needed to clinch the election.

        1. Four cities. That’s it. That’s the only four where he didn’t under perform.

          Guess which four?

  45. Trumps goal is not to overturn the election. Pay attention.

  46. Trump is such a fool. He’s going to go down in history as the president who tried to destroy democracy and form a dictatorship. Who knows, when he fails with his current attempts, will he try a coup? I hope not, but you never know.

  47. It’s gonna be hella funny when he gets arrested as he walks out the door of the white house for the last time. He’ll be able to say he was in the number 1 rated tv show of all time when that shit airs. Ha!!!!!!!

  48. I am appalled by the number of “Hate-America, Hate Freedom, Hate Truth” people who are such a big part of the Libertarian Party and Reason.com.

    I’m walking away. I will never support these Bill Maher Libertarians. I’d say “to hell with the LP,” but they are already there. Why do you people insist on ruining the LP when you could just be Democrats?

    1. Uh, Hit-and-Run is just another online dumpster fire these days. You may get a few doctrinaire LP members but most small “l” libertarians just don’t spend time here. As for Reason writers, they get criticized from so many directions, they must be doing something right. It’s hard to argue that a reasonable, thoughtful “small ‘l'” is welcome by either major party or by the LP for that matter. For my small part, I don’t “hate” America. I just think it’s a failed state that will take decades to sink beneath the waves. I rather enjoy freedom, but far too many Americans love their own freedom with any regard for the freedom of others. Finally, I prefer facts, reason, and a healthy measure of doubt to “Truth.” I’ll leave truth to the devout, and hope they don’t notice my obvious heresies. I aspire to be ignored rather than appalling, not easy these days.

      1. Too many people (Woke) define freedom as “the ability for me to offend and oppress but not BE subjected to offense or oppression.”

  49. Democrats tried for four years to undo the 2016 election, so Trump should have at least a couple of months.

    1. You can’t undo an election that has not been finished

  50. The democrats are going to undo it for him when they fall over themselves rushing to do stupid crap in the next two years. Just wait, Biden will surround himself with left, elite, liberty haters and they will do all kinds of idiocy. They will undo the election by getting their ass kicked in mid-terms and probably open the way for a R in 2024.

  51. So…..I dont think ppl in this country realize how dangerous today’s situation is. Our election system has been compromised and hijacked by a software company that most likely have undermined our system with CIA in toe. What Dominion Voting has done not only here, but also in other parts of the world is corrupt and I believe that this country deserves the right to know what has been happening. I am not sure, but it seems to me that Reason Magazine is presenting selective facts in what is happening and does not publish all info. This I am basing off other peoples comments that seem of emotional nature. Trump indeed is no angel, however our Republic system is under threat if you have failed to notice. We need to restore our election system with in person voting, ID and no software managing our votes. This must be eliminated and if you believe this is being a king your mind is not rational. A King does not expose corruption, a king commits one. In this case, Biden is the king. Reason, you should start hiring more adverse journalists, you seem very selective in your capabilities as of late. Report both sides and more facts. They are missing.

    1. Perhaps Mitch McConnell should have permitted the senate to vote on the Democratic bill to oversee Dominion software.

      What are the Republicans hiding?

  52. Boehm continues to be both emotional and retarded. I miss the days when this was an actual libertarian website.

  53. “Trump’s Attempts To Undo the Election Won’t Work”
    While I agree with that statement, they will also show our elections need a lot more security and oversight. The most secure election ever is a joke.

  54. I don’t think the goal is to ‘throw it to the House’. The goal is to prevent 270 being reached by Biden On Dec 14, so that they can ‘throw it to the governors’. Very different gameplan.

  55. The people screaming ‘coup!’ and ‘much democracy’ are once again showing their ignorance.

    First off, Biden isn’t President or P-elect. So there’s no coup to orchestrate. Idiots.

    Trump is doing nothing illegal and using the levers of powers afforded ANY Executive. This shit happened all the time in the 19th century.

    As for democracy, well, is it not a duty to ensure all LEGAL votes are counted and to ensure the PERCEPTION of a free and clean election? There’s more than enough evidence to suggest (and sorry, but hundreds of affidavits aren’t nothing to sneer at) there were irregularities and fraud. You MUST investigate it. If you don’t because of politics, then you don’t give a shit about democracy.

    Trump is doing the country a favor by defending voter rights in this manner.

    If it show nothing, then all the power to all.

    In any event, he’s trying to force it to the state legislatures. That’s the plan. I don’t think the courts are the play per se.

    1. ‘muh democracy.’ Stupid auto-spell and Sexy Flanders.

    2. The Trump team is filing a passel of frivolous lawsuits that are bound to fail. His lawyers will be lucky to avoid sanctions.

      1. Not optimistic on sanctions. The legal profession and judiciary are not known for policing themselves well.

    3. Nearly 160 millions of people voted in the 2020 election. I’m not sneering at “hundreds of affidavits” but I don’t see them as mathematically significant. Oh, and I think a motivated group could tens if not hundreds of thousands of affidavits swearing to a personal experience with angels, UFOs, and/or ghosts. Every election is imperfect. The people claiming massive fraud have failed to produce any meaningful evidence in the numerous legal cases pressed thus far. I see no evidence of a legal or a political strategy here, except to keep the Trumpistas whipped into a frenzy and to milk every last dollar out of them, now and every day until the inevitable 2024 Trump run.

  56. The current mud wrestling of Kleptocracy factions calls to mind the H-Bomb Comix cover of yesteryear. The Three Most Popular Men in Amerika were Richard Nixon, Spiro Agnew and Billy Graham. Right now on Faux News you can see the new lineup: Female Televangelist, Billy Graham, Male Televangelist. The Dems lost to LP spoiler votes, put their Jihad on Drugs planks in cement overshoes and… won? What is clear is God’s Own Prohibitionists are still in 1971: bully girls, shoot hippies add black gentlemen, bomb semites on the other side of the planet. Le plus ça change…

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