Election 2020

Georgia Will Recount Its Presidential Votes. Other States Might Too.

Biden appears to be winning, but the election is far from settled.


As more states finish counting votes on Friday and throughout the weekend, the presidential election might seem like it's almost over.

It's not.

Recounts loom in Georgia and Wisconsin at least, and perhaps also in Pennsylvania, Arizona, and Nevada, where the margins between former Vice President Joe Biden and President Donald Trump remain slim. After overtaking Trump in Georgia and Pennsylvania, Biden leads in enough states to clinch the presidency—but those leads remain tenuous, and major media outlets have not yet called the race for either candidate, though Decision Desk, an independent vote-counting operation, has called both Pennsylvania and the race for Biden.

The bigger question at this point is not whether recounts will happen, but whether they will affect the overall outcome of the race.

Take Georgia, for example. As of noon on Friday, Biden led in Georgia by fewer than 1,600 votes—a margin of less than 0.1 percent of the more than 4.8 million votes counted so far in the state.

"With a margin that small, there will be a recount in Georgia," said its Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger in a Friday morning press conference.

Georgia state law does not allow for automatic recounts in the event of close races, but candidates are allowed to request recounts in any race decided by less than half of 1 percent. Trump's campaign would have to wait until counting is finished to make such a request, but Raffensperger seems to believe that outcome is inevitable.

Georgia, however, is not essential for Biden's most obvious path to the all-important 270 electoral votes. Even if a prolonged recount in the Peach State were to flip the outcome back to Trump, Biden could clinch the presidential race by winning other states.

Pennsylvania, where Biden leads by about 9,700 votes, is the second-closest race at the moment. It has a law requiring automatic recounts in any statewide election decided by less than half of 1 percent—and individual candidates are allowed to ask (and pay) for recounts in races that exceed that threshold.

At the moment, Pennsylvania's presidential election falls within automatic recount territory, but Biden's lead is expected to grow as the counting continues. Whether it's automatic or requested by Trump, a recount there seems likely. And a recount in Pennsylvania is more likely to swing the outcome of the whole election by virtue of Pennsylvania's 20 electoral votes—though, realistically, Trump's campaign would have to win recounts in both Georgia and Pennsylvania to have a chance of winning reelection.

The wild card in all this could be Wisconsin, where Trump's campaign has already initiated a request for a recount. But Biden's lead in Wisconsin, which has 10 electoral votes, exceeds 20,000 votes. It seems unlikely that a recount would result in a swing that large.

Biden also has a roughly 20,000-vote lead in Nevada, a state without a mandatory recount law. In a statement on Friday, Trump's campaign alleged that "thousands of individuals" in Nevada "improperly cast ballots," but it is unclear whether Trump is seeking a recount or taking that issue into the courts.

It should be fairly obvious that the election is far from settled. Trump appears to be losing, but he is entitled to contest the results through recounts in various states and to pursue court challenges against what his campaign calls "irregularities" in vote counting in Pennsylvania and elsewhere. Even with a candidate less personally combative than Trump, it would be premature to expect a concession when so many results remain up in the air.

At the same time, it's important to keep in mind that Trump's allegations of widespread voter fraud and talk of a stolen election remain unsubstantiated.

"The president's allegations of large-scale fraud and theft of the election are just not substantiated," Sen. Pat Toomey (R–Pa.) said Friday morning. "I'm not aware of any significant wrongdoing here." Other Republicans including Sens. Susan Collins (R–Maine) and Mitt Romney (R–Utah) have made similar remarks.

The mantra for the past several days has been to keep calm and let the votes be counted. Now, keep calm and let them be recounted, too.

NEXT: A Mother’s Homicide Becomes a Son’s Passion Project in Murder on Middle Beach

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  1. Recounts should open up the possibility of challenging ballots.

    Republicans couldn’t challenge the way votes were counted before the first time they were counted.

    Now they have an opening.

    1. Hopefully, there will be results. However, I’m not really optimistic, considering all the things Team D got away with just within the past 4 years. They can pretty much do whatever they want at his point.

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    2. Even 2000 didn’t show much change upon re-examination of punch cards.

      The only allegation that seems relevant is the Philly case of sending people out to warn Democrats whose mail in ballots were disqualified.

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      2. You don’t have to sign punch cards.

        1%. That might be all they need.

        1. In 2016, Trump won:
          WI by only 23,00 votes.
          MI by 11,000 votes.
          PA by 44,000 votes.

          Trump only lost certain states:
          NV by 27,000 votes.
          NM by 66,000 votes.
          MN by 44,000 votes.
          NH by 2,800 votes.
          ME by 2,200 votes.

          Georgia is going Trump, even its by 1 vote from some military absentee ballot.

          1. Your blind devotion to Trump and clutching on to thin hope is kinda sweet.

            1. Your blind devotion to Biden and support of totalitarianism is kinda disgusting.

            2. I live in Georgia and follow politics. I know how corrupt Atlanta Democrats are.

              The Georgia recount aint going to go well for Democrats. Democrats count on politicians conceding or not having enough money for recounts.

              Trump won recounts in 2016.

              The democrat election fraud scam of 2020 is falling apart.

        2. True.

          What’s the libertarian position on getting authentic votes disqualified on a technicality?

          Assuming it didn’t bias the sampling.

          For example the Philly case of fixing the D ballots but not R would be horrifying if true.

          Throwing out Biden ballots because his voters had to jump through mail in hurdles that Trump voters didn’t because they voted in person… well I get that as a political tactic but I’m not emotionally invested it.

          1. Mail-in ballots not authorized by state legislatures violates the US Constitution, Article I, section 4.

            Libertarians would not want rules broken just so your team wins. Cheaters should not get to dominate those that didnt cheat. See NAP.

            Libertarians are for us to play by some basic set of rules that we all agree to or we agree to a small and limited government setting basic rules.

            Getting a mail-in ballot because you’re on some list and filling it out or signing the pre-filled info and mailing it in is NOT more work than in-person voting.

            Election fraud is fraud and should not be tolerated by Libertarians.

      3. The Nevada case used a machine in Las Vegas to validate signatures that no other county in the state used. It registered 70% of them as invalid.

        With that kind of inaccuracy, I don’t have much faith in the 30% that were validated by the machine.

        1. Could you provide a reference for this?

        2. Yeah well. There was a machine in Las Vegas…

          Somehow I managed to get on a plane and go home the next day.

          “Buy the ticket. Take the ride”

    3. I dont know enough about WI, MI, PA, NC, AZ, and NV but Georgia has a Republican Secretary of State in charge of voting.

      Our saving race from preventing as much Democrat election fraud is that Georgia wont declare until we are sure of the count and get illegal ballots tossed.

      Democrats are positioning to get states like PA, NC, AZ, NV, WI, MI officially called for Biden.

    4. By all means, recount away. It seems unlikely 4 states will go differently and Trump would need all 4 to get 270. And the longer this drags on, the better, because Trump is then less likely to resign and have Pence pardon him.

      1. Trump already has 273 with the states he’s leading, you’re going to need to overturn another 2-3 states with unsigned, unpostmarked ballots arrived 3 weeks late to get your man in, kiddo. You might pull it off.

    5. While you can challenge a ballot you need a reason to have the ballot removed from the record and it needs to be more than I did not like who the ballot voted for. How many ballots are really going to be excluded or added into the tally.

      1. Citations lacking….again.

        Trump won recounts on 2016.

        Lefties hoped Trump would concede and they havent learned anything about Trump in 30 years.

    6. Recounts should open up the possibility of challenging ballots.

      Like they did in Washington with Gregoire? Like they did in Minnesota with Franken?

    7. Trump confiused that voting and ….READ MORE

  2. The logic on election fraud is absurd.

    “There are some red flags indicating fraud. We should look into it to make sure everything was legitimate.”

    “What? There is no proof of fraud.”

    “Well, we first have to invest ……


    What do people think proof is? How do they think proof is obtained?

    1. Proof is anonymous sources that confirm your biases.

    2. Truth over facts, as Biden so eloquently stated during one of his Freudian slips.

      Facts and logic doesn’t matter anymore, or proofs for that matter… it’s all about the Truth. Oh, and what Truth is? Well, anything that the Blue Church deems to be the Truth regarding any given subject. If mail-in voting is 100% temper-proof, then it is 100% percent temper-proof, even if the facts say otherwise. Feelings over facts, and Truth over reason.

      1. Truth over facts is a core belief of Post Modernists most of whom deny that falsifiability is necessary characteristic of the Scientific Method…it’s all down hill from there.

    3. Proof is an fbi agent making up sources and claims, and procecuters commiting perjury

    4. The other ridiculous aspect about the “no proof of fraud” claim is that it has NEVER been true. There are people sitting in state and federal prisons right now for voter fraud. Were these cases of voter fraud widespread? It depends on what you consider widespread. Some of them altered thousands of votes in their respective elections. These are just the cases we know about.

      Democrat resistance to fraud investigations is troubling enough. If there’s nothing to see here, why are they so concerned about an audit? This isn’t Patriot Act nonsense where it involves violating your individual privacy for no good reason. There’s an extremely good reason to make sure elections are properly conducted and all of the people involved chose to be part of the electoral process.

      Review will not be an opportunity to instigate fraud. It’s not like this process will be able to interject Trump votes and flip states back. There should be zero reason for concern, yet there is extreme resistance. Someone is extremely afraid of being found out and I think we ought to know why.

      1. Don’t let Democrats get away with saying “voter/election fraud is not widespread”.

        By design. Its targeted election fraud. Why risk federal prison for rigging a California election for Biden? Its only spoken among co-conspirators who plan, engineer, and execute election frauds in select precincts to sway election outcomes.

        If we can’t have fair and open elections, there I no longer agree to be bound by the Constitution or respect any of its protections. It’s war!

        Elections keep us from killing each other because we agree to the basic rules. Democrats have been pushing those rules and getting away with violating them for decades.

      2. “There should be zero reason for concern, yet there is extreme resistance. Someone is extremely afraid of being found out and I think we ought to know why.”
        If the Lie, Cheat, Steal party was confident that they had won, why so many instances of denying observers the ability to see what was being done? Why so man instances of boxes of votes appearing in the middle of the night, virtually all for one candidate? Why such anomalies as one state having a 60% margin in mail-in ballots and another with a 37% margin, both state wide, when the overall “winning” margin was in the single digits, as were the mail-in margins in almost all of the states?
        And all of these things breaking in the favor of the party doing the counting.
        Criminal cases are often decided on circumstantial evidence and usually evidence, in this case mail-in ballots, is disregarded if there is no “chain of custody”, which is glaringly absent in any USPS-handled vote.
        What is the LCS party trying to hide?

    5. I guess any hope I had that you guys would just accept the loss gracefully and move on was kinda foolish. But it’s more entertaining to see all this crying, so I don’t mind.

      1. Suicide would be smart for you.

      2. Now you know how we felt for 4 years watching you latch onto Russian conspiracy theories and the genuine belief that Trump was going to be impeached and charged with crimes.

        Of course, a key difference here is that there is substantial evidence of wrongdoing, and the election still isn’t over.

    6. Republicans are engaged in fishing expeditions to try to develop a record on voter fraud.

      You know? Like all of those oversight hearings and subpoenas that came out of the House the last couple of years?

  3. LOL

    It’s over. Biden won a stunning landslide, giving him a historic mandate.


    1. Keep up the good work.

    2. I must say, Biden winning all 50 states by mail-in ballots was superior campaigning on Harris’ part.

    3. Would have been funnier if you said that on Nov 2nd.

  4. This is getting fun.

    Dudes on Reddit are losing their minds when its pointed out that the reason Jorgeson – the most pro-gun candidate out there – is not becoming President is because they voted for Trump instead.

    They don’t like the ‘you threw your vote away’ argument turned against them.

    If guns were so important to them, and if they had all voted L, she’d be preparing her inauguration party.

    1. Enjoy Biden. I hope your principles help you sleep at night as all your rights are slowly, but surely, stripped from you.

      1. The Democrats will strip rights A, B, and C, the Republicans will strip Z, Y, and Z. It makes no real difference because once they are done with the first ones, both parties will be coming for the rest

        1. What rights have republicans been threatening?

          1. Your right to other people’s stuff.

          2. The right not to be thrown in a cage without due process. The right to a government that does its job to protect us from natural disasters like a virus. The right to do business freely without xenophobic tariffs. The right to free speech without being pepper sprayed.

            1. Fuck off, Tony.

              That’s about the only response warranted. I’ve read enough comments at this point to realize the only thing you contribute are leftist talking points with zero substance.

            2. “The right to a government that does its job to protect us from natural disasters like a virus.”

              This is how you know he’s trolling.

              1. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, fuckwad.

                It’s not all about your right to shoot people who trespass.

        2. Does false equivalence help you sleep or something?

      2. You threw your vote away because you were scared. If you had voted Libertarian, Biden would not be President.

        But go ahead and enjoy *your* principles.

        1. I did not vote based on my principles because, unlike big “L” libertarians, I am a pragmatist.

          People unwilling to compromise on their ideals and purity do not deserve any support and, as we see, will never get it. And, now, they’ll definitely never get it.

          Enjoy Biden.

          I don’t want to hear any complaints.

      3. Considering that libertarians are Marxists, I’m sure they’ll just be oh so upset.

    2. In a bizarro universe where Jo becomes president, I’m pretty sure she doesn’t stand up to the Dems as well as Trump. Let’s be real.

      1. All she had to do is keep vetoing anything that crosses her desk.

        Just do that for 4 years and she’d have been the best President of our lifetimes.

        1. She bent over for blmantifa, but she totes would’ve grown a backbone

          1. It’s almost like Agammamon is a Marxist who supports BLMarxism and would have been happy to elect a fellow traveler

    3. Yes, guns and 2A are so important to Jo that they don’t even show up on her campaign website under “Issues”. If you’re going to run as a Libertarian, I’d think it would at least warrant a mention if not a fullblown “END THE NFA” statement.

      1. Approximately zero people I know IRL have read any platform by any candidate.

        1. That’s true, it doesn’t mean candidates should just assume no one cares though. I expect my Libertarian candidates to be rabidly pro-gun, I don’t think a blurb on the campaign website is a big ask.

          1. But you don’t expect your Republican candidates to be?

            1. I don’t expect them to be as pro-gun as Libertarians, no. I’ve heard too many Republicans equivocate on the subject and use the phrase “common sense” when referring to infringements on 2A.

              I understand why Republicans in blue or purple states don’t make a big deal out of it for political expediency. I do not understand why a Libertarian with no chance of winning the election can’t take a firm stance on gun rights.

              1. I do not understand why a Libertarian with no chance of winning the election can’t take a firm stance on gun rights.

                Because libertarians don’t believe in gun rights, because they are Marxists, because they want guns only in the hands of the vanguard?

        2. I read them and cite them here at unreason.

      2. That not showing up? That’s more than Trump has. Remember bumpstocks? Pepperidge Farm remembers. Remember when he rebuked the ATF for overstepping when it started pushing to reclassify pistol braces as NFA items? Or when it decided it would change the definitions to prevent certain other types of firearms from being imported.

        You guys keep talking about compromising being necessary – the compromise here would be a candidate that won’t actively work towards gun control, no matter how minor.

        But ya’ll was scared. So you threw your vote away and voted for Trump.

        1. Always theoretical bullshit with you guys. Always.

          Pragmatism has a meaning. Maybe if we all wrote in Kanye, he would have won.

          Get real.

          Oh, and enjoy Biden.

          1. Oh, and enjoy Biden.

            Agammarxist cares so much about gun rights that he supports the guy who campaigned explicitly on the issue of taking away guns from citizens and murdering them to do so if necessary.

  5. This is where republicans (at least the rinos) really fail. Instead of standing together, demanding recounts, not calling the election, not throwing the president under the bus, they start the butt covering process almost immediately. Democrats despite all their lying corrupt ways actually do manage to circle the wagons when they are in situations like this. If republicans think this is the way to get loyal voters they are sadly mistaken. And assume the voters in Georgia for the senate runoffs are watching because they may just decide the GOP has failed them. If you don’t stand up for your party you don’t win elections. Just ask the libertarians.

    1. When it comes to Romney and Collins, at least, Trump has not exactly extended party unity toward them.

      1. You mean he doesn’t cordially embrace the two senators that voted for his impeachment based on a oppo dossier? Well what a cunt!

    2. The neocons are all backing Biden anyway because they expect he’ll drop more bombs on more sandy countries

      1. It would just be a sad continuation of what Trump has been doing.

        1. So its bad when Trump does it?

        2. No new wars in 4 years. Troop drawdown in Afghanistan. Signed agreement with the Taliban. Yep, putting ground troops in Syria is exactly the same.

    3. Awwwww, you mad bro?

    4. Well, That’s kind of a virtue (Not the RINO’S) but the Republicans actually have a brain instead of mindless sheeple (useful idiots). As much as I’m a Republican fan; I still don’t want to see the ‘groupthink’ the Democrats do become the Republican norm.

  6. Georgia going Blue is a major eye opener. But is it really that surprising? Urban areas tend towards Blue and Atlanta is a big ass city last time I checked. Plus all the alt-right silliness that’s been swirling around Trump isnt’ all that endearing to the huge Black vote in the state. I’m NOT saying Trump is racist, but all the alt-right bigots glomming on to him doesn’t help.

    1. Free shit.

      Free shit.

      Free shit.

      Oh, and rayciss.

      The huge black vote is a hivemind of irrationality, and it has largely always been.

    2. >>But is it really that surprising?

      yes. requires fraud.

    3. But trump made huge gains in the minority vote and lost most with the white vote. He’s doing white supremacy wrong.

      1. The Whites know better what is good for minorities better than minorities.

        The notion that Democrats are the party of the little guy has been firmly repudiated as a result of this election.

        Democrats are the party of well off, white elites that harbor some very unsavory thoughts about their racial inferiors, as well as anybody that performs any type of physical work that requires more than punching numbers into a computer.

        Strange how things seem to have flipped.

        The Democrats are the new racist Republicans.

        1. They’ve always been – reference; the civil war.

      2. Doesn’t matter. People like Geiger Goldstaedt still pissed off enough of them that they didn’t switch in the numbers your internal dialog tells you. And the big stories about switching are about Latinos in a neighboring state, not Blacks in Georgia.

        1. I dont think even dems are as happy as you are that a guy who ran on authoritarian proposals won.

        2. Enjoy Biden, and your conscience.

          Remember, no complaints form hereon out. You’ve forfeited that right.

          1. Brandybuck is a Marxist Democratic Party shill, what makes you think he would have any complaints about a Harris administration?

        3. Trump doubled his percentage of black women and gained 4 points with black men. Any other Democratic Underground talking points you’d like to get stuffed up your ass real quick, or???

          1. He lost the pussy hat contingent, 30-70 to Biden.

            “My pussy, my choice!”

            Unfortunately, their pussies are the only thing they don’t want government touching; everything else is fair game.

    4. Georgia is NOT Blue.

      Republicans control the state legislature.
      Republican control the Gov. and Lt Gov.
      Republicans control Secretary of state.
      Georgia has two Republican US Senators.
      Most House seats in Georgia are GOP.

      Biden is ahead by 1,600 votes before military absentee ballots were counted. Lefties have no more Biden votes for them.

      Its a close race and Georgia might turn Blue…again. Just like it was for over 100 years. As more Georgia Boomers die from Kungflu, it might go real Red real quick.

      1. Arizona has had a Republican supermajority for at least a generation, probably more.

        But Phoenix and Tucson are Blue so the rest of the state got drug along.

        1. Maricopa county went Trump in 2016.

          Politics do change but the only real change was more cotes overall for Biden AND Trump.

      2. Yeah, I’m sure military ballots will break decisively in favor of the guy who referred to them as *checks* chumps.

        Military support for Trump is higher than the general population, but it’s nowhere near what you find among cops or Republicans.

        1. Yeah, I’m sure military ballots will break decisively in favor of the guy who referred to them as *checks* chumps

          Oh you mean that thing that never happened? You’re right, I’m sure instead they’ll break decisively in favor of the guy who referred to them as *checks the publicly available video recording* stupid bastards.

          Any other Democratic Underground talking points you’d like to get stuffed up your ass real quick, or???

    5. Brandybuck: I AM saying that Trump is racist.

    6. Look, many young men of any color left the loony lefties this time. There will be more in 2022.

  7. If the Democrats get control of the Senate with Biden as president, libertarian ideals are going to get a beating for the next 2 to 4 years at a minimum.

    1. Two to four years at maximum? I wouldn’t be so sure about that…

        1. [throws Red Tony some fish]

    2. I hope there is a Republican senate to keep Biden in check, but I’ll gladly take getting rid of Trump and his devotion to driving culture war and division of the people of this country.

      1. Culture war started way before trump. And will continue after.

        1. True, but Trump is culture wars biggest devotee.

          1. Yeah I noticed how Trump called half the country irredeemably racist and his supporters poured into the streets causing over 2 billion dollars worth of property damage and committing 2 dozen murders.

          2. NOTHING has been more divisive than how the Lie, Cheat, Steal party (formerly known as the Democrats) conducted this election.
            Taking advantage of the panᵈᵉᵐic to institute the open-to-fraud mail-in balloting and the way they ran the counting process to get the “late breaking” surges for their candidate, hiding what they were doing, all the way.
            They have ensured that almost half of the country has no confidence in the bedrock of our republic.

      2. Democrats started and own the war you fucking retard. It isnt Republicans and trump supporters committing 100s of millions in damage.

        Ca you really be that dumb?

        1. Oh noes, gay people can now get married. Muh culture!!! Let me put on a red hat and get in people’s faces.

          1. Oh noes, the police shot a black criminal. Muh culture!!! Let me put on a red handkerchief and murder a black federal law enforcement officer, try to burn down a federal building with people trapped inside, and steal some merchandise from Rodeo Drive.

      3. Trump – “division of the people”; are you blind???

        Democrats – the party of skin color identity, the party of sex identity, the party of wealth identity, the party of national identity..

        Pick your [WE] mob; just be sure you sell your own soul to a [WE] foundation because you don’t OWN you [WE] own you.

      4. But you supported Obama driving culture war and division of the people of this country.

        1. Actually, I didn’t support Obama.

          1. Actually, you did. You also supported Hillary Clinton when she called half of the country “a basket of deplorables”. You also supported Biden and Harris when they called the half country racist.

  8. If 1% of the mail in ballots are excluded on a recount because they weren’t signed properly, etc., that could be more than enough to make Trump the winner in Georgia, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.

    If more than 1% of the ballots can be excluded for various reasons, that will almost certainly put Trump over the top in those states.

    Because the mail-in ballots are generally pro-Biden, every ballot the Republicans get thrown out at random is good for Trump’s reelection chances.

    I don’t know how many of you are old enough to remember the hanging chad controversy in Florida, but recounts are different in that everyone is closely inspecting and challenging ballots.

    1. Yep, good times!

    2. Hanging Chads. What a story, huh?

      So for those of you that don’t know, or don’t remember, there was this guy in central Florida by the name of Chad. Well-liked, thousands of friends, everybody loved him. Well, you see, Chad was also struggling with depression, which nobody knew about until about a week before the election when he hung himself. Because Chad was so popular, the funeral organizers decided to hold his funeral on Election Day because then everybody could get off work and come to Chad’s funeral, where they’d celebrate his life.

      Now see, Chad’s friends were many and legion, and a service that started at 10 AM and was expected to last maybe an hour and a half ended up lasting long into the night as several of his friends took the stage to pontificate on how awesome Chad was, a bunch of booze was passed around, I’m pretty sure there were some foursomes scattered throughout the park–hey, it was an open-air funeral and they needed a huge place to host it.

      Well anyway, it wasn’t until about noon the next day when the first revelers were waking up with massive hangovers that some people started to realize “shit, I forgot to vote.” While most of the funeral attendees just shrugged their shoulders and went on with their lives, a few of them petitioned the state’s election board for permission to cast votes due to having been at Chad’s funeral on Election Day. These requests were rejected, but Democrats latched onto these mourners–or “hanging Chads” as they called themselves, in reference to their awesome (and dead) friend–and blamed them for the vote in Florida not tilting towards Gore.

      And that is the tale of Hanging Chad.

    3. Ken, if you check out e.g. the Florida results of 2016, you’ll see that there has been more than 160k invalid votes. This was 1,67% of the total votes. Considering that mail-in-voting is more prone to various issues, the minimum rate should be 2%, though there had been instances and counties where the rejection rate was even higher than that in the past.

      Since democrats clearly opted to use this voting method than republicans, it should be obvious that they should bare the brunt of these rejected votes. Furthermore, it was stated for both FL and NC that the rejection rate for democrats are actually higher (apparently, their voters are more prone to make mistakes than republicans). For this years presidential elections, I expected a higher than normal rejection rate due to the increased volume, and increase number of people utilizing this method for the first time. Lastly, since democrats were more likely to have former in-person voters than republicans and independents, all in all I concluded that they may quiet likely off-set their supposed advantage in turnout.

      Alas, I have a hunch that the current ‘results’ contain a large amount of mail-in-ballots that should have been rejected, but for various reasons they have not been. Using TargetSmart estimates and early voting counts (all types), there are even more irregularities in the current results. For example, in Michigan TargetSmart stated that there were more registered republicans for mail-in than democrats, yet in the end Biden appears to have received an unusual spike. Furthermore, for most of the states, the rate of returning these ballots were similar, or democrats were in advantage. That means that the remaining ballots should have reflected a similar ratio, yet there were dumps with 80-90% Biden votes apparently. This is already very strange statistically speaking, let alone comparing to previous counts and projections. In all likelihood, the republican ED in-person voting should have created a strong enough lead for President Trump, that should have been insurmountable with the remaining mail-in-votes, or more precisely, the outstanding difference/advantage for democrats were projected to be insufficient for most swing states. Yet in the end, it appears that they have found enough ‘good’ votes, conveniently, just enough to stay ahead of Trump ever so slightly.

      1. “their voters are more prone to make mistakes than republicans).”

        Somehow I’m not surprised.

        1. Although I don’t want to be nasty, it is indeed ironic that the very same people who constantly call all conservatives ‘rednecks’ and ‘retards’, are the ones whose voting base is more prone to produce invalid ballots.

          Not surprisingly, they utilize this simple fact to further their own devious goals: ‘our voters’ ballots are being rejected in higher numbers because of… racism’… Never mind that President Trump made inroads to literally all minority groups, and broke records at that compared to previous republican candidates.

          1. I find it interesting the GOP establishment isn’t speaking out more.

            1. Because they want to try to run a good, clean candidate that won’t be called a racist divider in 2024. They don’t want the stain of Trump but still haven’t realized that it doesn’t matter who they run. That person will be reviled just as much as Trump for things that they never did or said or believed.

              1. This is what really amazes me. Trump won one already and might’ve won this one too, has helped a lot of Republicans win their elections and energized the Republican base in a way no other Republican has in my lifetime. They aren’t going to do better than that in 2024.

                The only strategy I can see them having where Trump losing this year is a positive for them is if Kamala ends up being President and her sheer unlikeableness damages the entire Democratic party in 2024.

                1. Exactly. Plus he gave them the Don Corleone treatment on Johnny Fontaine, ‘you can act like a man!’

                  Trump reinvigorated that party by giving it life and balls.

                2. The party wasn’t theirs when Trump was here. Now? It might be again. Replete with opportunities for fundraising and other ways to play plucky underdog, fighting for you (but always in a dignified manner), versus those dirty Democrats over there. It’s easy to see why GOPe types are having a Coke and a smile at the thought of Trump leaving.

                  They’re part of the Ruling Class, after all. None of these restrictions are going to affect them personally, in the slightest. Their houses will not have brown outs, they will still have cars, and subsidized gas with which to fill them, and their kids will still go to Sidwell Friends like they always have. They won’t starve, and they will be safe.

                  Their constituents? Their fellow Americans? Who gives a fuck? I got mine.

                  Something, something, rule in Hell versus serving in Heaven.

                3. Well, the fact that the left always fails won’t help.

            2. >>I find it interesting the GOP establishment isn’t speaking out more.

              why? they’re anti-T pussies moreso than (D)

    4. In PA, the number/percentage of invalid mail-in ballots is almost certainly higher than 2% because:
      – mail-in ballots (aka naked ballots) were required to mailed in two different envelopes to be counted, and
      – this is the first time most PA voters voted via mail in ballot.

      PA and Hollywood Democrats (who were pictured naked) ran lots of TV ads during the past two months urging voters to make sure they put the one envelope inside the other envelope before mailing it.

      Hopefully, there will be a recount of mail in ballots in PA.

    5. That and Kavanaugh, Barrett, and Thomas are likely very willing to enforce constitutional ballot tossing against Democrat schemes.

      They know first hand how corrupt Democrats are to win.

    6. I am pretty sure the courts will not toss out ballots based on improper signatures. But keep hoping and adding to the salt mine.

      1. I am pretty sure the courts will not toss out ballots based on improper signatures.

        Doesn’t really matter, all they have to throw out are the duplicates, the votes cast by the dead, the ballots with no signature, postmark, or verification. But keep shilling for vote fraud.

    7. Does a recount get to look at everything, or is it just the ballots, minus the envelope, which is where the signatures are contained and are probably thrown out once “verified” as matching?
      Part of our secret balloting is that one’s name isn’t identified with the candidate for whom they voted.
      The video’s I’ve seen don’t show ballots being kept with the envelopes, but all stacked, ready to be counted.

  9. At the same time, it’s important to keep in mind that Trump’s allegations of widespread voter fraud and talk of a stolen election remain unsubstantiated.

    Like Hunter’s laptop, I don’t think we’re allowed to talk about this.

  10. >>At the same time, it’s important to keep in mind that Trump’s allegations of widespread voter fraud and talk of a stolen election remain unsubstantiated.

    ya you’re paid to go find out and then tell us.

    1. I think it’s clear at this point that Reason is paid to get people to passively accept the communist takeover

      1. Did your mommy tell you that when she brought your dinner down the stairs?

      2. Yep. Suddenly everything makes way more sense.

  11. More R failed to vote than L that did. So, fuck off.

    With regard to fraud allegations.

    1. National Review is ardently anti-Trump and the dickhead that writes the “morning jolt” is one of the worst.
      That organization has forfeited the right to call themselves conservative.

  12. If there’s one thing dems have learned since 2000, it’s how to ace recounts. They’ve probably won 99.99% of them like Washington governor in 2004 and MN senate in 2008

    1. They won in Democrat controlled states.

      Georgia ain’t a Democrat controlled state.

      A bunch of Atlanta Lefties volunteered to count ballots because they live there. They got away with stuff when two challengers were not standing over their shoulders.

      Democrats were out of Biden votes when the recount was announced. Georgia still has military absentee ballots to factor in.

      This recount is so Democrats cant whine about Georgia going to Trump and give the GOP the moral high ground with the SCOTUS.

      Trump vs Biden victory for Trump is going to send Democrats into a rage.

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  14. No shit.

    All the ballots coming in after Nov. 3 conveniently going Biden’s way by a vast majority. Yeh. Ssssure.

    And you know what? If it ends up being true – and this being the digital age so there seems to be plenty of documentation of fraud and shenanigans – I think prosecutions must follow.

    Start with the recounts and ensure GOP observers are allowed in.

    1. “All the ballots coming in after Nov. 3 conveniently going Biden’s way by a vast majority. Yeh. Ssssure.

      And you know what? If it ends up being true – and this being the digital age so there seems to be plenty of documentation of fraud and shenanigans – I think prosecutions must follow.”

      Why would they, Rufus? Why would they punish the people who delivered them a victory? Maybe a few unlucky tokens—and those will be found on both sides, to lend legitimacy—but certainly not many. I want to see fraud punished too, but I want a lot of things that aren’t going to happen.

      1. I find you’re too negative. Be positive!

        But yeh. You’re probably right. Lol.

    2. Mail in ballots are mostly going to the candidate who encouraged people to vote by mail, instead of the candidate who encouraged people not to vote by mail. Who could have possibly predicted it?

      1. Trump gained voters who voted in person and submitted mail-in ballots…imagine that!

      2. Thank you for making it clear that this is a coordinated DNC talking point.

  15. They probably should recount. And other states should probably recount as well. I doubt the numbers will change much, but this is the first time we’ve had to deal with this much mail in voting, so they should double check to make sure it was done right. And who knows, maybe it will make Trump STFU and face the fact that he lost the election. Probably not, but maybe. He’ll probably end up leaving the White House in handcuffs because he won’t get the fuck out (That would be funny).

    Probably trumps biggest mistake was not pushing the mail in voting to his followers. I’m pretty sure there are millions of Dems that probably would have never made the effort to go the the voting polls. But they had the ballots hand delivered with a pre paid mailing envelope. How easy is that? Trump followers on the other hand decided to tear up their mail in ballots and go to the polls because their fearless leader told them to. I’m pretty sure those followers who threw away those mail in ballots and not vote are regretting it now. Who knows how may more votes Trump could have gotten. 100 more? 1 million more? 10 million more? Who knows. But that’s what happens when you listen to a dumb ass leader. And just think. All of those Sharpiegate whiners in AZ would have nothing to complain about if they just mailed their ballots in.

    I’ve been voting absentee for a few decades now. Mostly because I found it was a big PITA to go to the polls every election. I’m a busy guy who works his ass off. The last thing I want to do is go to a polling place on election day. Who knows, maybe this will encourage voters to register absentee. It’s a lot easier that way, I promise.

    1. I voted in person because I didnt want my mail-in ballot tossed. This Kungflu hysteria to be scared to vote will result in Americans getting their lazy votes thrown out.

      Millions of mail-in ballots are going to be tossed.

      Trump vs Biden victory for Trump is going to be glorious just like Bush vs Gore gave me massive tear collection for years.

      1. You make a good point about not wanting to use USPS to deliver your ballot. Luckily for me, the voters registrar is not far from me. So I just took my ballot there and stuck it in the box. No lines, no waiting.

      2. “Millions of mail in ballots will be tossed.” Mail in ballots favor Biden because Biden voters tend to take Covid seriously. If “millions of mail in ballots” are tossed wouldn’t that hurt Biden more than Trump? Aren’t you claiming massive fraud as well?

        Lc1989 when you were spouting that Trump was gonna win in a landslide I had a feeling something wasn’t right with you. That’s been confirmed. I’m sorry, but if you believe all the shit you’re posting you’re goddamn dumb. You post all sorts of figures and conjecture without citing anything. I call Trump a liar in general and you ask for a cite. Seriously you seem really goddamn dumb. Get checked for hookworm please.

        If there is as much fraud as you and Trump claim it will be exposed. I’m not holding my breath.

        1. Trump won more states than he won in 2016.

          Im not a democrat, so I was not privy to the planned democrat election fraud in over 7 states.

          Recounts and Trump vs Biden court cases should fix that with a Trump relection.

  16. Just for the record, the “called” states just reflect editorial opinions.
    No state is actually for a candidate until the results are certified.

    1. +10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

      1. Dems and the media have been saying this for weeks. Trump’s the one who tried to claim victory on election night. Biden’s been saying everyone needs to be patient.

        1. Biden’s been saying everyone needs to be patient.

          Biden said on election night that it was “clear we have won”. And has said so since as well.

        2. Trump has won.

  17. All I know for fact at this point is this is the most illegitimate election of my lifetime (I am 51). I do not trust the results in the Red States. I do not trust the results in the Blue States. I do not trust the results in the Purple states. Primarily, I do not trust mail-in voting. We must have mail-in voting for legitimate reasons (overseas military, invalids, etc), but the widescale escalation, in such a short amount of time, was rife for corruption. And since many of the Dems constituents are welfare recipients who are not only too lazy to work, are also too lazy to go to the polls, what better way to include them but allow them to sit at home on their couch. We should have never allowed mail-in voting, end stop. There was more than enough time to institute in-person early voting. Many, many utilized early voting. There was no reason EVERYONE could not have done this. I am nobody and it does not matter, but I will never accept any result from this election.

    1. We have election fraud with limited absentee ballots for very few and in person voting.

      We now have massive election fraud and constitutional issues with mail-in ballots (Article I, section 4) not being authorized by state legislatures but by Democrat Governors because Kungflu.

      1. I don’t quite understand your logic here. That means that either Someone at USPS had to steal ballots from being delivered or ballots that were sent to voters who are dead or no longer live where they registered had someone use their ballot fraudulently. But if that were the case, that would mean that a lot of people either didn’t get their ballot because someone at USPS sole it, or whoever received the ballot where a dead person lived was a democrat, then fraudulently filled out the ballot and mailed it in, or whoever moved in to the house where someone moved was a democrat, the fraudulently filled out the ballot and mailed it in. Also, I guess there was not a single republican who received one of these ballots then filled it out and fraudulently filled it out and mailed it in. That just makes no sense unless all democrats are bad and all republicans are good.

        I received my ballot in the mail unopened or tampered with and so did everyone else I know. Did anyone here not receive a ballot in the mail who should have gotten one? If there are millions who never received their ballot, then there could be a problem. But it doesn’t seem like that happened unless the only person you trust is Trump.

        1. No ones implying here that republicans never ever cheated and that it’s only a democrat thing. But the truth is, the democrats had been better or more willing at cheating than republicans ever were. Also, in our case here, it is very much possible that their fraudulent activities had affected the final outcome too.

          Since democrats tend to control large population centers, and they often have their people at every level of government, it is easier for them to cheat en masse. One of the best way for them to do that is to create a database, in which they check each registered non.voters in their district. That way they can prepare these ballots beforehand. Another easy way to cheat is to destroy the ballots of the opponents, obviously, and if they don’t allow republican observers to be present at the counting, how can be certain that they did not do that too?

          1. If what you claim is true you(or Trump and his lawyers) should have no problem showing evidence. There was election fraud in North Carolina in 2018. It was Repubicans cheating. If anything we should be making sure the GOP doesn’t try to cheat again.

            1. In order to obtain evidence of fraud, one has to investigate. But leftists like you argue that, as a prerequisite to an investigation into fraud, one must first present conclusive evidence of the fraud.

              The other issue with leftists is that they pretend they do not understand the above.

            2. The republican cheating was debunked but even if it was true, they had a new election.

              Lets have a new election. In person voting only.

              Moot point. Recounts and court wins like Trump did in 2016 will lead to Trump term #2.

    2. A deadly pandemic is not a legitimate reason to have mail voting?

      There is no evidence mail voting is any more prone to fraud than in-person voting. The only difference is it’s more complicated and prone to getting thrown out.

      1. “There is no evidence mail voting is any more prone to fraud than in-person voting. ”

        There’s one guy here that always says “fuck off and die” to your posts and I now understand why.

        1. Just because Trump flaps his mouth doesn’t mean what comes out has any relationship with truth.

          1. Poor tony.

  18. Recounts only change a small number of votes. In FL 2000 we were talking about a 500 vote margin, which would be tough but maybe was doable. In the 2016 Wisconsin recount 131 votes were found and added to Trumps total.

    Add to all this that the states that will be recounted are under heavy scrutiny in the initial count and are likely to error on the side of caution. So again I would expect any changes to be small.

    I would expect recounts to delay the election result, but not to change them.

    Final thought, it is generally considered poor form to request recounts if you know
    you can not win the recount. You will note that for all her whining, Hilary Clinton accepted the results and requested no recounts. Poor form does not apply to Trump and I expect he will do all he can to delay the results.

    1. LIes. Hillary requested recounts and challenged results.

      She just fucked up by conceding too early. Biden wont make that mistake by conceding.

      The MSM thought they could bully Trump into conceding and they were wrong…again.

      1. Put up or shut up! Where did Hillary Clinton request a recount?

      2. Jill Stein requested recounts in some states but Hilary didn’t. Trump claims there was voter fraud in 2016. Hilary didn’t.

        1. Agreed

          1. Hey look, shreek agrees his sockpuppet!

        2. Your citation fell off…again.

    2. “…the states that will be recounted are under heavy scrutiny in the initial count…”
      That’s complete bullshit.
      One of the big complaints is that the observers were treated like Saddam treated nuclear inspectors – every obstacle was placed in their way; they were kept as far as possible from the counters; counts happened when the observers were told to go home, because counting had stopped for the night; boxes of ballots were received and counted in the middle of the night.
      There is a widely viewed video of large pieces of cardboard being used to block windows, so the counting couldn’t be watched.
      If the Lie, Cheat, Steal party, conducting the counting, didn’t have anything to hide, why were they doing such a good job of concealing what was going on?

      1. And to follow up; a lot of what was done will not be revealed in a recount, which will only be of ballots already “verified” as being legitimate by the cheating counters.
        Postal workers in Pennsylvania are coming forward with stories of back-dating late-arriving ballots and the SCOTUS has had to re-issue orders that late-arriving ballots be separated from legitimate ones.
        Yet, “surprisingly” it is these late counts that are swinging in Biden’s favor. Go figure.

  19. Hey look everyone, Trump is being a Karen and crying about all the voters at the playground not liking him very much! What a spoiled rich fuck!

    1. “all the voters at the playground”,,, ….. crickets….

    2. All these years and you still dont know Trump.

      He knows Democrat corruption better than most. He checkmated you dipshits for over 4 years. Hadnt you heard, Trump killed RBG so he could get a justice that would stand up to Democrat fraud.

      Trump vs. Biden and Trump reelection will be glorious.

    3. Agreed

      1. Hey look, shreek still agrees with his sockpuppet!

  20. Biden said his first order of business is to put USA back into the Paris Accords.

    Pennsylvania: D’oh!

  21. If this somehow affects the Masters I’m gonna be pissed.

    If election and/or voter fraud is as rampant as the Reason commenters claim then Trump should have no problem showing evidence of it.

    It’s not like he claimed voter fraud in 2016 in an election he won without evidence. Or has he been claiming there’s fraud before anyone voted.

    1. That’s my take. If it’s that blatant, it should be easy to prove. But I just a video about how the Pennsylvania SC court unconstitutionally changed a law that was written and clear in 2019 about votes needing to be in by 8pm on election day. SCOTUS is reviewing it and sounds like they will over turn it. Which, in turn, will nullify any votes after November 3 thus giving Trump the state.

      I love all this intrigue.

      1. Where I live we’ve voted by mail for years. Every year a few days before the election they announce that it’s the last day to mail your ballot and be sure it arrives before or on election day. Ballots received after election day don’t get counted. I was wondering why other states didn’t do that too. My guess is since so many people are voting by mail for the first time they wanna make it as easy as possible.

        1. That’s not the point.
          The legislatures are the ones to institute all-mail-in voting, or mail-in ballots to be sent to every registered voter. The US Constitution says so.
          If your state legislature made mass mail-in voting the standard, then it is legal.
          Orders by governors, election officials or even state supreme courts are not lawful and should be struck-down.
          That means any ballot received in the mail, not in conformance with state legislature-set absentee requirements, should be ruled as invalid.

      2. SCOTUS is reviewing it? Do you have a cite? I have not heard anything about that.

      3. This assume that a large enough number come in after November 3rd. Democrats were emphasizing getting votes mailed in time. A suspect that the votes coming in after November 3rd will be small and not enough to change the tally.
        By the way, Biden is ahead in PA at this time and the late arriving votes have not yet been counted as they are segregated. My guess is if Biden wins without the late votes he will pass on a request to count them. Trump may want them as late votes in Az were breaking for Trump. Be ironic if Trump sues to have them counted and Biden opposing counting them.

        1. Of course the late arriving votes have been segregated. The people that declared Trump will never win the state said so.

          1. That’s why a later order from the SCOTUS reiterated that these votes be segregated, after the Penn AG said she didn’t know if they were.
            A 60+% advantage in mail-in ballots for Biden, when the entire state margin was in single digits, and the average in other state’s mail-ins were similarly small, indicates that, maybe they weren’t.

            1. I think there is zero chance they were segregated. And, if they were not segregated and simply mixed into the totals, how would it be proven? There is simply no way.

              That’s the problem with fraud and mail-in ballots in general. There is no chain of custody. The safeguards are non-existent, apart from trusting the person doing the counts (and, of course, we all know these people are beyond reproach). That’s the problem with restricting and/or denying GOP access to the counting process. Once you miss the boat, it’s gone.

  22. The poor conservatives! Despite losing the popular vote in 7/8 of the last election they will have held the presidency in 3/8 of that time. Thanks to GOP hypocrisy they’ve appointed 5 SC justices during that time to Dems 4. The senate gives disproportionate power to small states and rural areas which are controlled by backwards, inbred, far right nuts.

    They’ve just gotten screwed over the past few decades!

    1. “Hillary won the vote that doesn’t count!”

      Goddamn is it going to be fun savoring your tears for another 4 years.

      1. Last night Corrupt Joe harped on the same not-counting metric.
        Real people can’t help how fucked up the voters in Californication are.

  23. Guess they decided you guys needed a copium thread.

    1. “After a million votes all arrived late and 100% for Biden, it’s time to stop counting!”

      Goddamn is it going to be fun savoring your tears for another 4 years.

  24. IF Biden ends up winning all you folks need to accept it and move on. Hilary conceded in 2016 and didn’t make baseless claims of fraud. Trump did despite winning the EC, but losing the popular vote. He’s going to lose the popular vote again.

    If there is legit fraud it would be one of the biggest scandals ever. Sorry people aren’t taking Trump or y’all’s words for it. The GOP and Trump have been screaming fraud for years, but haven’t produced any evidence.

    For the past 4 years we’ve been hearing “Dems are trying to deligitamize/overturn/not accept the 2016 election. They never screamed fraud. Especially without evidence.
    If Biden wins please don’t do all the things you accused Dems of in 2016.

    1. 1. The popular vote has fuck all to do with electing the President.

      2. Hillary never conceded in any true sense of the word. To this day she maintains the Russians stole the election.

      3. In order to produce evidence, one has to investigate, but leftists like you insist that in order to warrant an investigation, definitive proof must first exist.

      4. In light of 1-3 above, you are clearly full of shit.

    2. Hilary didn’t make baseless claims?

      How many beers are you in?

    3. “”For the past 4 years we’ve been hearing “Dems are trying to deligitamize/overturn/not accept the 2016 election.””

      Yeah, from the dems own mouth.

      Trumps an agent of Russia.

      Remove Trump by any means

      What? Mueller didn’t work?? IMPEACH!!!!!!

      Not my President!!!

    4. “”IF Biden ends up winning all you folks need to accept it and move on.””

      Instead of acting like democrats after Hillary lost?

  25. Vote counting stopped Tues night because face to face conversations (Obama style) take time, sometimes days to conduct. Phones and email were off the table for the kinds of deals that were cut this week.

  26. Pack ur bags Donny, the majority have spoken.

    Ur fired..as you would say.

    1. Incantations are often soothing for the weak minded

    2. Its not over u til recounts and court cases are resolved to exposed the democrat election fraud of 2020.

      Trump won recounts and election fraud court cases in 2016.

      1. If the courts had any guts, they’d invalidate every mailed-in ballot in states that the legislature didn’t vote to allow that.
        But the fear of the antifaBLM “peaceful” protests just might cow them into allowing this – “just this once” – as they have been so many times before.
        There was a method to the madness of the last few months of “peaceful” protests.
        Oh, I forgot. Those were white supremacists doing the rioting.

  27. If every Republican precinct in the country started refusing to send in their counts until Democrat precincts finished their counts in their states I bet then we’d hear about that is voter fraud. This is what Democrats do. They’ve done it for a very long time. It’s how Chicago rules IL’s votes. It’s much easier to create the votes you need when you know how many you need. I’ve accepted it, it’s why my Libertarian votes are not wasted. Some of you all need to accept it to but that doesn’t mean you enable it by claiming it doesn’t exist. It’s real. The state laws need to be changed to stop allowing it.

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