Protests

Protests and Looting Continue After Philadelphia Cops Fatally Shoot a Knife-Wielding Man Experiencing a 'Mental Crisis'

Walter Wallace's family says the officers could have defused the situation without using lethal force.

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Philadelphia saw a second night of protests and looting yesterday following Monday's police shooting of Walter Wallace Jr., a 27-year-old aspiring rapper who was wielding a knife while experiencing what his family described as a "mental crisis." Wallace's relatives say police could have defused the situation without using lethal force.

Last night about 500 people staged a peaceful march in West Philadelphia to protest Wallace's death, while others of a more avaricious bent took advantage of the situation several miles away. "After looting Monday night into Tuesday morning in West Philadelphia, hundreds of people were back out ransacking businesses 24 hours later," WPVI, the local ABC station, reports. "Hundreds of people could be seen running in and out of businesses along Aramingo Avenue in the city's Port Richmond section, including a Foot Locker, Burlington, Target and Dollar General. Some could be seen with their hands full of merchandise, jumping in cars before police arrived."

A bystander's cellphone video of the shooting shows two officers repeatedly ordering Wallace to put down the knife as he approaches them and they back away. The Philadelphia Police Department says the officers each fired seven rounds, although it is not clear at this point how many struck Wallace.

Wallace's mother, Catherine Wallace, says police should have known her son was having a mental breakdown because they had been called to the family's house three times that day. Shaka Johnson, a lawyer representing Wallace's family, noted that the officers were not carrying tasers, which might have provided a less lethal way to subdue him. "When you come to a scene where somebody is in a mental crisis, and the only tool you have to deal with it is a gun…where are the proper tools for the job?" he asked.

Wallace was the father of nine children, and Johnson said his wife was about to give birth to a 10th. In 2013, WPVI reports, Wallace "pled guilty to assault and resisting arrest after punching a police officer in the face." Around the same time, "a judge ordered Wallace to undergo a psychiatric evaluation and treatment."

The officers were wearing body cameras, but the footage has not been released yet. The police department is investigating the shooting. "We're confident that investigators will conduct an exhaustive and transparent review of all the facts related to this tragic incident," said Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 5 President John McNesby.

"The public deserves a transparent and honest accounting of what happened," City Council Member Jamie Gauthier writes in a Philadelphia Inquirer op-ed piece published today. "Officers need more intensive training on de-escalation techniques and use of nonlethal weapons….We must immediately ramp up investments in mental health supports for first responders and the communities they serve."

More on that from Sally Satel in Reason's October issue.

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  1. Philadelphia saw a second night of protests and looting yesterday…

    You can just say protesting.

    I’M JOKING. (Although it’s Filthacrapia so maybe I’m not joking.)

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  2. Not sure, other than less lethal such as tasers, the cops could have done differently. The bigger question is why was this the 4yh time the cops were called and did the family or policy keep the cops from getting him mental care the first three times? The family obviously couldn’t control him, so what did they want the cops to do?

    1. “The family obviously couldn’t control him, so what did they want the cops to do?”

      Get stabbed to death. They wanted the cops to get stabbed to death and, just before their deaths, to accept with great dignity and eagerness their honorable roles as sacrificial lambs to the Great Gods of the Woke.

      1. Problem child gone and big payoff from the city. Winner, winner.

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        2. I guarantee those cops were familiar with the phrase “Tueller Drill”.

          They all knew how likely they were to die at the hands of the knife wielder.

      2. Or, you know, shoot once, maybe not center-mass. People with mental health issues still feel pain and bleed, unlike the mysterious supermen likely on PCP they’re all so familiar with and well trained to identify immediately.

        1. Come on, man! Shoot em’ in the leg! What’s wrong with you?

        2. You’ve never owned a gun.

          1. or watched the countless videos of other shootings where the attacker is shrugging off multiple shots as if they were nothing until one hits the head or spine.

            If you have to shoot, shoot to kill and end it as fast as possible. The shoot-to-disable is a hollywood inspired fantasy that responsible adults should know better then to propagate. “shoot him in the leg” is a shockingly stupid comment from a presidential candidate.

            1. This. Once you have decided to shoot at another human being, you shoot until you’re 100% positive they’re done being a threat. You do not shoot at someone to wound them, if you do not think they need to die you shouldn’t be shooting at them.

              Only 7 shots from each of those officers? They need larger magazines.

        3. “Or, you know, shoot once, maybe not center-mass. People with mental health issues still feel pain and bleed…”

          LOL. You are rolling dice with your life in that situation, and you are voluntarily choosing to take only one roll to hit your point, rather than five or six rolls.

          Whatever, it’s your funeral. Don’t expect police or anyone else to be as reckless.

        4. Not shooting for center mass is an excellent way to miss your target and hit something – or somebody – else. Also the whole ‘shoot him in the leg’ meme is based on the highly questionable assumption that a bullet would in the leg won’t hit the femoral artery, resulting in a very quick death by bleeding out.

          Knife welder within 10 feet = shoot NOW or get stabbed or slashed.

        5. “Or, you know, shoot once, maybe not center-mass”

          Please provide us with the source of your “expertise” on this matter.

          Otherwise [and most likely regardless] this is the dumbest comment of the day.

    2. I was surprised there is a police department where officers are not carrying tasers. If that was because they were not equipped with them in the first place, then more training in use of non-lethal weapons they don’t have is not going to help.

      1. Which I asked in Hit n Run why weren’t the Philly cops issued tasers? If they don’t have them it isn’t their fault.

        1. Again, are tasers illegal in Philly? Shouldn’t the family be the ones to run out and get a means to subdue their mentally ill miscreants somewhere between the first and second, second and third, or third and fourth calls to the police (not including the call in 2013 when he assaulted an officer)?

          1. All great questions. Instead all the answers we get is the cops shot a knife wielding violent black man.

            1. Part of this is a predictable backlash to so many other shootings where police were obviously not justified, or where they framed somebody, or otherwise acted like thugs instead of the legendary good cop. After a while, people who have been lied to time after time start thinking every story is just another lie.

              I’m not sorry for the predicament they have put themselves in; that’s on them.

              1. “so many”

                Put a number to that

                1. Cops are fucking corrupt af dude. The number is greater than too many. I’m all for jailing people who break the law, but fuck cops dude are you serious?

                  1. Thank you for contributing to the nuance of this discussion. What we needed was more broad generalization about who the bad guys are.

                    1. Actually LOL’d.

              2. “I’m not sorry for the predicament they have put themselves in; that’s on them.”

                A statement so good it even works for the violent felons who chase cops with knives too.

        2. Initial reporting is always lacking important details. It takes about a week or two to get a good picture of what really happened.

          1. Unless it’s a 17 year old from Illinois with a gun in Wisconsin, right Dee?

            1. i don’t quite think he is guilty of first degree murder. However, he did violate the law. He was too young to be in possession of the firearm. He should be charged for that. I don’t know if the parents violated any laws in that regard? If so they should be charged as well. I think there are a few other laws he may have violated in regards to transporting the weapon and leaving the scene but I don’t know? He certainly should be charged for any and all violations.

              1. Hello. Based department…?he was not too young to be in possession of a firearm. There is no minimum age to possess a gun in the U.S. or Wisconsin.

                He did not transport the gun across state lines, he borrowed it from a local friend.

                His local friend did not break any laws by loaning him the rifle.

                There is no law and has never been a law requiring you to stay at the scene of a crime when that crime is other people trying to murder you, with mob violence, a skateboard, fists or feet, or a Glock 26.

                1. Why the artifact from a previous post? Go home Reason. You’re drunk.

          2. unless there is a video that shows the entire, unedited event readily available for all to see.

      2. TWK…I think the taser point is completely irrelevant. Cops have guns to deal with people who are armed with knives.

        1. Don’t they have tasers precisely so they will have something else besides guns?

          1. A man with a knife in his hand advancing on an armed police officer screaming at him to comply is a man who is choosing to die.

          2. no citizen, when faced with a knife wielding attacker, would be expected to use non-lethal force to protect themselves.

            Cops should be held to the same standard, not more, not less.

            If a citizen could use deadly force here, then the police can too.

          3. They have Tasers to deal with non-deadly threats. Guys freaking out on drugs, uncooperative drunks, etc.

            If someone is making a deadly threat towards you, deciding to use non-deadly force is a gamble I can’t force someone else to make. Maybe they could’ve, but I certainly can’t fault them for reacting to a deadly threat with deadly force.

      3. Tasers fail half the time. They’re not accurate at a distance. They often don’t penetrate skin or clothing, especially someone in motion.

        Even if it works, it’s likely to result in injury or death.

        What kind of idiot would whip out a Taser, if he had one, as protection against a maniac, if it’s not 100% effective and 100% safe?

    3. Shoot their burden of a relative and set them up for a payday.

      1. No no. They just wanted them to finally get his rap career off the ground.

        1. Can you imagine how exciting it must be for that family right now? Heart pounding anticipation of fame and money? Crump on the phone? Pretending you’re not thrilled about dipshit finally stopping his impregnation program with ten fucking welfare recipients?

          I bet the matriarch can hardly hide her overwhelming joy. They made it. They finally made it.

          1. Just wanted to place a friendly wager – $500 says they still get welfare no matter how many millions they bilk from the taxpayer.

            God I fucking love my country.

            1. Best two comments of the article.

      2. +1 civil settlement and GoFundMe.

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  3. Wallace could have diffused the situation by putting the knife down. He didn’t. Suicide by cop.

  4. Philly so crappy the only good thing from there is compleate fiction – Rocky. (okay not compleate fiction as it was based on Chuck wepner)

    1. Joe Frazier and the Declaration of Independence were pretty awesome, too.

      1. My vote is with cheesesteaks. Sweet Jesus that was a gift!

        1. Gift my ass. It was culturally appropriated from god knows where.

        2. Yeah, the gift of colon cannon.

      2. Tom hanks and aids.

  5. The link between the shooting and the looting seems fairly attenuated.

    “In our considered opinion, this knife-wielding madman could have been taken alive…to express this concern, we’re going to steal some stuff.”

    1. yeah, people are just looking for an excuse to loot and riot now. wait, they killed a guy who was attacking them with a deadly weapon? well, who wouldn’t have?

      now in DC people are attacking the police station because someone fled the police on a scooter without a helmet, and died when a car hit him.

    2. Yeah, the protesting in looting is in response to a SINGLE homicide.

      1. People gotta think about Christmas right now. How the fuck they supposed to get presents this year? Damn right looting is the only solution.

        1. Granite so it’s really another manifestation of the white patriarchal system, trying to live up to Santa Claus is causing the looting.

  6. In most situations, I agree that the cops jump far too quickly to lethal force.

    However, in this situation, you have a man who is armed. The police had been summoned to the house three times in a single day, so he was obviously dangerous.

    Mentally disturbed or not. He was approaching the police while wielding a deadly weapon. Despite what fraudulent self defense classes say, there is no reliable method to disarm a knife wielding opponent. At short range, knives even win over guns a lot of the time.

    At this point, people are demanding that police be superhuman. The people involved in the looting are just using this as an excuse.

    1. “At short range, knives even win over guns a lot of the time.”

      An acquaintance of mine was fairly easily robbed with by an asshole with a box cutter a few years back, despite carrying a concealed pistol. He is ex-military and, despite his training, was forced to surrender his wallet. It took seconds. He was shocked. He told me the thought of trying to draw his pistol under such close quarters never even occurred to him.

      People that have never had a knife drawn on them believe they are living in an action movie. Not so. A drawn knife is enough to stop most people in their tracks, frozen with fear — even people that are armed.

      1. People tend to have much greater fear of being stabbed than being shot. During the 18th and 19th century, despite infantry relying on the bayonet as their primary weapon, very few casualties actually were caused by the bayonet. Trained troops who would stand and absorb volley after volley of musket and cannon fire, taking heavy casualties would often break when charge by bayonets, long before the charging troops reached them. The British noted this during the Iberian campaign, that French troops, who often outnumbered British troops would absorb multiple volleys, often unable to respond because the French preferred to fight in column as opposed to line, but would break as soon as the British were ordered to charge.
        Similarly, infantry will almost always beat horse cavalry if the infantry holds (horses won’t charge into a solid wall), but cavalry relied on the sabre and the fear of the sabre would often cause green troops to break before the cavalry reached them (which ironically resulted in more casualties because broken troops were a cavalryman’s dream).

        1. Knives are terrifying. I happen to be a collector. I have, for better or for worse, cut myself on several occasions. And, though always on my hands or fingers, some of the cuts have been bad. There is always a lot of blood, even for the smallest of bites. Though I am accustomed to handling all sorts of knives, under various circumstances, the thought of being stabbed, or menaced with a knife, is terrifying. Once you see what even a glancing pass with a sharp knife can do to human flesh, the thought of a full force strike anywhere on your body is absolutely crippling.

          1. “Everybody gets cut in a knife fight.”

            Just ask O.J….

            1. LOL

              This is very true. There is really no way to avoid getting sliced or stabbed if you are going to engage in a knife fight. Assuming you have the choice to run away, that should be the first choice. At the end of the day, the best way to avoid getting stabbed by a maniac with a knife is to run faster than the maniac, or create space (by running away) and shoot them (if you are armed).

              Unfortunately, the police do not really have the option of just running away since their job is to stop the assailant.

            2. I was told way back that the winner of a knife fight goes to the hospital. The loser goes to the morgue. There are often two losers.

        2. horses won’t charge into a solid wall

          If you don’t think a horse will run over a standing human or a wall of standing humans, I’ve got news for you. What cavalry cannot do is run full stride through an unbroken line of infantry the way they can through a broken one.

          1. A horse will not typically run into a wall of spears, or bayonets. They are not the brightest of animals, but they are also not suicidal.

            1. So relatively smarter dogs can be trained and disciplined to sacrifices themselves for their owners but horses, long fabled for running back into burning barns, can’t be tricked into running and jumping over obstacles?

              What you’re saying makes sense given the paucity of mounted cavalry and its general ineffectiveness throughout military history. I suppose war elephants were largely ineffective against shields and sabers as well.

              1. War elephants, according to almost all evaluations of their usefulness other than as transportation, were ineffective. They were terror weapons but tended to be ineffective if the enemy didn’t break. However, elephants are much more aggressive than horses. Also, dogs are carnivores so attacking is not against their nature.
                Horses, when cornered prefer to use their hooves and or teeth until they can get away. They will rear up or turn and kick out if possible. Reading up protects their head and neck as does turning and kicking out with their hinds legs. Additionally turning and kicking with their hinds legs has the added benefit that you are already facing away from your assailant and can thus run away faster.

                1. War elephants, according to almost all evaluations of their usefulness other than as transportation, were ineffective. They were terror weapons but tended to be ineffective if the enemy didn’t break.

                  Again, I think you’re confusing the psychology of warfare with the pragmatics. I don’t disagree that they were terrible pack animals but from a pragmatic perspective, whether the line broke because the elephants or horses were just so scary or because the elephants or horses physically broke the lines or some combination of the two, I don’t much care. The lines were broken and the use of both animals throughout military history demonstrates that it wasn’t some fluke or myth.

                  Moreover, I find the idea that you couldn’t teach a horse with a rider to run headlong to its own death patently absurd. Especially a horse bred and raised for such a purpose and especially given that pretty much since its domestication, it’s been well within a human’s grasp to run a horse to death. Just because it’s not a predator doesn’t mean it can’t charge and/or won’t defend itself.

                  1. “I find the idea that you couldn’t teach a horse with a rider to run headlong to its own death patently absurd.”

                    I find the idea of teaching a horse to run to its own death to be patently absurd, especially since horses were expensive and typically carried … you know, the riders.

                    As for elephants, the Romans demonstrated thousands of years ago during the Battle of Zama that opening gaps in their lines was an effective method for dealing with charging Carthaginian elephants. Indeed, the elephants ran through the gaps (since, like horses, running into things is not their first choice) and were picked off by skirmishers and spears.

                    E

                    1. especially since horses were expensive and typically carried … you know, the riders.

                      Because no human has ever fought a war from a position of debt and/or that cost them an empire?

                      WTF world do you people live in where only the safe wars get/got fought by people riding safe ponies?

                    2. Mad.casual name one battle on history were cavalry broke disciplined massed infantry and carried the charge home. I can name hundred la of battles that the opposite happened but cannot think of a single example of cavalry breaking infantry by carrying the charge home.

                  2. War elephants with knives would fuck you up something evil.

                    1. I’m designing a trunk wieldable sword right now. Arm the elephants!

                      Man, that could make for some *really* surprised poachers.

                  3. I have one word for you. Waterloo.
                    The French Heavy Horse Cavalry was the best trained, best mounted cavalry in Europe. It’s horses had been bred for centuries to be war mounts and trained from birth.
                    I would also mention the Battle of Crecy, Agincourt and Poitiers. Hell any British victory just about during the 100 years War. English predominantly fought on foot. Archers and armored knights, in close ranks armed with pikes and halberds broke charge after charge for mounted French knights and specially trained and bred war chargers.

                    1. I’m fact I dare you to find one battle where cavalry ever broke through a disciplined line of infantry.

                  4. Elephants were of variable effectiveness.
                    The biggest problem is that when they got spooked they became a bigger threat to their own forces than the enemy.
                    The Romans used flaming pigs (or maybe just pigs) to freak out Carthaginian elephants and cause them to flee or run wild among their friendly ranks.
                    Plutarch’s “Lives” has an interesting story, I believe either of Philopoemen or Timoleon. Elephants became popular after Alexander’s conquests during the Hellenistic wars. The above general was storming I think Corinth and on the verge of victory when an elephants rider was knocked off and killed. Elephants are very intelligent animals and form deep emotional bonds. When his rider was killed, the elephant was so distraught it grabbed the body with its trunk and stormed right out of the city, trampling the invading force in the narrow streets and turning victory into defeat.
                    So the story goes at least.

                    1. Actually I think it was Aratus…

              2. Sure, horses can be tricked. Armored horses trained for charging into enemy formations were equipped with blinders so that would run in a straight line. But, even then, running into a wall of spears was not the objective.

                War elephants, on the other hand, were prized mostly for their shock value and little else. They were easy to hit with artillery, spears, bolts, etc. If met with a stiff formation, elephants also tended to lose their shit. The problem with elephants is that they are too intelligent. You really have to break an elephant’s will to get it to fight in the first place and they just as often turned on their handlers during battles if spooked or surprised. More than anything else, they gave mounted archers and other ranged units a better view of the pickings on the field.

                1. It is instructive that the primary weapon of knights was the lance, which was designed to injure infantry and break the line to allow the charge to be carried home. It is also is instructive that the counter to the lance was the pike. Over centuries both lance and pike grew longer in an arms race, eventually reaching lengths that any further lengthening would make it impossible for humans, even using bracing as was common for heavy cavalry in the late renaissance, to carry and use.
                  Also, unlike Hollywood protroyal, medieval and early Renaissance infantry used the shield wall and fought as a unit in close ranks. Laterz as pikes and halberds became the infantry weapon of choice (mainly to counter the lance) shields were discarded but the close ranks remained.

                  1. Very true.

                    I have always been astounded by the fact that, as late at the 17th century, the techniques developed by Alexander’s phalangites were still being employed by armies in Europe, such as the tercio companies.

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tercio

          2. Horses will generally pull up or veer off when confronted by a solid wall. Running over a single human is different. But even then if given a choice most horses will swerve to miss a standing human. They are prey animals and it goes against their nature to charge into what they perceive as danger. Also their eyesight isn’t great and if they see something that appears solid they will pull up to avoid it. But horses also have a blindspot directly in front of their face, and if the object is directly in front of them and close they can’t see it to avoid it, that is why horses will try and turn their heads as they approach a person or object, to keep it within the field of vision.

            1. Cattle will act the same but are more likely to stand their ground and or charge if they feel threatened.

            2. But even then if given a choice most horses will swerve to miss a standing human.

              A single horse, possibly. A band, like you would have in a cavalry, would run over you as surely as if they were cattle or buffalo or pigs. Go try an pet a stud racehorse sometime and come back and tell me what kind of meek prey animals they are.

              1. A band

                I guess ‘herd’ is the more common term but, to me, connotes wild horses.

              2. They will rear up and kick. They will try and charge around you, I have. You forget I own a ranch and have worked with animals all my life, as well as a master’s degree in animal science. Rearing up is a defensive measure, charging around you is an escape and if they do hit you 9 out of 10 times the hit you with their shoulder because they are trying to avoid you but the space is tight or appears to be tight. A stampede is definitely a different situation but even a band of horses will veer off if a group of people stand together. In fact, if you can’t escape, the best measure to survive a stampede is to stand shoulder to shoulder with others, as there is a good chance they will go around you. Running will likely get you ran over.
                It is like one of my heifers, she will false charge you when you are working with her calf. Turning and running is likely to turn the false charge into a real charge. However, I stand my ground and slap her in the nose with my hat and she backs off (though I never turn my back on her, and have her marked for culling if and when I can voluntarily cull).

                1. You forget I own a ranch and have worked with animals all my life, as well as a master’s degree in animal science.

                  No I don’t. It’s why I’m surprised that you’ve never seen an aggressive, aggressive dominant, or defensive-aggressive horse.

                  I don’t disagree that fleeing isn’t always the best option, but to act like you could never find a herd of horses that wouldn’t run people down on their own or, moreover, that couldn’t be trained to run people down is absurd.

                  As above, I don’t care if the horse runs over people because it’s angry or because it’s scared and I don’t care if 1/2 the line fled in fear, 1/4 got trampled and the other 1/4 were cut down or if none of the line fled and all of them were manually cut down, as long as the hole opened up and a horse was standing in it, time after time, it wasn’t dumb luck.

                  1. I didn’t say that any of the things you read into my statement. I admitted if spooked a herd of horses may run over a human, but that is different than a controlled cavalry charge. I also admitted a horse can act aggressively if it feels cornered however, most prefer to use their hooves as opposed to charge, and in charging it is generally a fleeing mechanism and if you step aside they won’t charge through you. Yes occasionally you have a horse that is overly aggressive, but this is generally high tempermant breeds, and the aggressiveness is a defense mechanism.
                    Ask Napolean how well heavy horses, the best trained in the continent at the time and most veteran cavalry, did in charging through the British lines at Waterloo.

                    1. And even if given the chance a panicked herd prefers to go around a human. Generally what happens though is the horses on the outside can’t see the human and hem in the horses on the inside, leaving them no room to turn. If enough humans are in front of them the horses on the outside see and will pull away from the perceived threat, allowing the horses on the inside to also avoid the perceived threat.

              3. As for petting a stud, stud horses tend not to be as accustomed to humans. If you try to approach them in a pen they try to move as far away from you as possible I’d they can’t move away the rear up or false charge to drive you back. if you do the same thing in a pasture they will keep running from you until reaching a point where they can’t retreat. Occasionally, and it is rare, you do have a horse that will charge even in a pasture, but that is far more likely in smaller paddocks and I’ve never seen it happen on the range.b

                1. The only example I can think of where a horse charge broke disciplined infantry that stood their ground was if the horse was incapacitated/killed and the momentum of the horse carried the body into the ranks of the infantry thus battering a hold in which the other cavalry could exploited. If infantry stood it’s ground cavalry couldn’t break them, especially if the infantry was arranged in a square or multiple lines.

      2. Stopped me in my tracks. A drawn knife does tend to focus your attention — on the knife.

      3. similar to the close quarters knife issue a relative asked if a person can take a gun away from a person, why they asked me i don’t know but anyway my answer was “you can but you better know what you are doing” most don’t know and trying out a move you saw on tv for the first time while being attack is not a good move

        1. “…trying out a move you saw on tv for the first time while being attack is not a good move.”

          Nope. It’s not.

          Under stress, you will default to the level of your training. Untrained people rarely do well.

      4. a gun is a range weapon. a knife is a melee weapon.

        I always cringe on TV shows and movies when the good guy with the gun holds it on the bad guy at close range, so the good guy can be disarmed. Just step back 5 or 6 feet. You still won’t miss.

        1. The movie Kiss Kiss Bang Bang made a point on that

      5. When you’re done boot-licking, ask your friend how it would have gone if his twin brother with similar training and weapons was 15 feet away.

      6. True dat! I was walking along the river in New Orleans with my wife one day and noticed shall we say an aspiring rapper casing us. We walked and I’d look back and he’d be over to one side then the other. We kept walking and I looked back and he was getting closer as we got into a lesser populated stretch. At this point I didn’t even look back I just took my nice auto folder with a shiny 4″ blade flipped it open so he could plainly see it and held it at my side. After another minute or so I looked back and I guess he remembered his recording session at the studio as he was long gone! Typically I carry a gun AND a knife.

      7. Hmm. The police in Reading this summer didn’t seem to have any trouble tackling and subduing a knife wielding terrorist that had actually already stabbed multiple people. So…maybe the police in Reading, UK are both better trained and bigger-balled than a couple of Philly flat foots? Or maybe American police just default to lethal force because of an inherently gun-obsessed death cult of a country?

  7. More equivocation from the liberaltarian reason Koch machine. When you cannot see the problem it means you are the problem. Anyway happy to see more rioting and looting because it gives trump the edge now in PA.

  8. WTF is a mental crisis? Because the way the media uses it, it means a psychotic episode by someone the left intends to hold up as a fallen hero.

    You don’t see people rioting over the retarded guy who was convinced by a pervert to pull his pants down and is now on the SO registry for life.

    And maybe, just maybe, the family needed to take some fucking responsibility and physically restrain that man before the police needed to be called a 3rd time. I would much rather go to jail for assaulting my child than bury him.

    Wake the fuck up, people! If cops kill your kids, quit calling the fucking cops or letting the situation escalate to the point that other people do!

    1. A mental crisis is usually a euphemism for a drug induced frenzy. Fentanyl. Meth. Opioids. PCP. Take your pick. Mix and match.

    2. Now that I got that out of my system, why isn’t the voice of Libertarianism calling for a private sector response? They need to get the governments red tape out of the way and allow private security to be called to handle these situations.

    3. I would much rather go to jail for assaulting my child than bury him.

      He was a 27-yr.-old unemployed black culture participant. On the one hand, ‘child’ is the incorrect term. On the other hand, it’s exactly the right term.

      1. I chose that word precisely because it was his mother that was blathering on about the police killing her boy. Seriously, what did she do to prevent it?

        My boys are 25 and 23 and heaven forbid they were to have a psychotic break, I would tackle them, tie them up, whatever it took to restrain them and then proudly face the consequences for doing so.. I would never call the police on them or allow someone in my house to do so and if the police showed up, I would, without question, get between them and the cops.

        Then again, I love my boys now, while they are alive.

        Wallace was the father of nine children, and Johnson said his wife was about to give birth to a 10th.\

        And WTF is up with throwing that tidbit out there? Are we supposed to presume this guy was a taking good care of his 9 children? How about some follow up?

        1. And WTF is up with throwing that tidbit out there? Are we supposed to presume this guy was a taking good care of his 9 children? How about some follow up?

          I’m pretty sure that in the next 10 yrs. ‘aspiring rapper’ will be a somewhere between insult and racial slur.

          1. in the next 10 yrs. ‘aspiring rapper’ will be a somewhere between insult and racial slur.

            I’m pretty sure it already is.

    4. Mismatched socks is a fucking mental crisis.

  9. “Walter Wallace’s family says”

    Nothing of value.

    1. Hello. Based department…?

  10. This never happened when we locked up the crazy people – – – – – – – –

    1. May be true.

      How much, realistically, would it cost to bring the asylums back, at say a 1940s level of prevalence? I don’t think you could do it for less than a quarter trillion, and that might be low.

    2. Amen. Bring back the looney bins. Get these nuts off the street.

  11. How many knife-wielders who menace cops are fully in their right minds?

    1. That is way less of a toung twister than how much wood could a wood chuck chuck

    2. If only the officers had been accompanied by a social worker willing to be stabbed to death, the entire confrontation could have been avoided.

      1. They’re actually have been suits brought by social workers (or, in more tragic situations, by their estates) against their employers for the employer’s failure to provide the necessary security and protection for social workers doing home visits. Most of what ordinary people suggest as alternative approaches — shoot them in the leg, have social workers deal with it — are just people talking out their butt.

        1. Nobody suggesting that social workers attempt to sweet talk armed assailants actually means what they say. They know how things would work out, and they would not work out well for the social worker.

          The real impetus behind these suggestions is to “defund” the police indirectly through demoralization and reactive riots.

          Unfortunately, there are far too many people (and, many in the hivemind that poses as the “black community”) that believe committing crimes and treating other living people like disposable trash are sacred rights — well deserved entitlement as a result of slavery and the civil rights abuses of the past.

          This a very deleterious mindset.

        2. You’ll never get social workers on the scene when the shits hitting the fan. Call one and their voicemails all say if this is an emergency call 911! They want to sit around 3 days a week charging $125+ for 50 minutes to listen to you. They aren’t interested in being shot or stabbed etc. I am actually considering another degree in therapy just so I can sit around doing nothing making 100K a year working part time and it something you can do at any age as long as you can stay awake, you don’t even have to actually fix a fucking thing!

    3. Having met some cops… the answer isn’t zero.

  12. Keep in mind that Gauthier also voted not only to reject a budget allocation an additional $19m, but also to defund police to the tune of $14m sent to the mayor’s fund, which is a known slush fund for pet projects.

    Maybe if they spent less on psuedoscience implitic bias training and actually gave officers non-lethal equipment we wouldn’t have riots.

    1. “Less than lethal” is not the same as “non lethal.”

      Most less than lethal methods still carry a risk of lethality. Police should stop responding to these types of calls altogether.

  13. Somewhat OT:

    “PHILADELPHIA – An investigation is underway after a man was shot and killed in broad daylight in Strawberry Mansion. Detectives say the man who pulled the trigger is an anti-violence worker with the Philadelphia District Attorney’s Office….

    “Police say the employee in the DA’s office tells investigators he paid 31-year-old Vernon Harris for sex in a car parked in the Napa Street lot. Afterwards, the employee claims Harris pulled a gun and tried to rob him, but the employee fired two shots from his own weapon killing Harris.

    “The case has been sent to the Pa. Attorney General for investigation.”

    https://www.fox29.com/news/police-employee-from-philadelphia-district-attorneys-office-shoots-killed-man

    1. Only 2 shots, he is antiviolence… By Philly standards

    2. If a dude pays another dude for sex and shoots him, does that make him more of a fa—-t? Or less?

  14. Shaka Johnson, a lawyer representing Wallace’s family, noted that the officers were not carrying tasers, which might have provided a less lethal way to subdue him.

    Are tasers illegal in Philly? Presumably the family could use their own tasers to subdue him. I mean, sure, he had a knife but, you know, tasers or mental health coaches or something.

    1. Tasers are fatal 1-in-20.
      They fail 1-in-2 times.

      They’re not a safe and effective alternative to beating someone’s ass or, if necessary, shooting them.

      Because of the cultural perception that they’re harmless, they’re used too often when diversity hires should have physically stopped a jerk, if they weren’t fat or weaklings. This results in unnecessary lawsuits.

      So a lot of departments prohibit them.

  15. A bystander’s cellphone video of the shooting shows two officers repeatedly ordering Wallace to put down the knife as he approaches them and they back away.

    First…Baruch Dayan Ha’Emet, Walter Williams. May your soul be bound up in the bonds of eternal life.

    Wow. Even though the outcome here was tragic, the actions of the police appear to be by the book, and then some. At least, based on what we have seen thusfar. And I absolutely think we need a fully transparent and honest account of what happened.

    The tragedy here is that Walter Williams was not getting the help with his mental crisis that he clearly needed. I figure this guy had to be crazy because nobody in their right mind would ever charge two armed police officers who have their guns out and are screaming at you to comply. Suicide by cop? Maybe.

    As for the rioters, I am glad the PA governor called out the Guard.

    1. Yes, we can mourn the guy who was shot without saying the people who shot him were criminals…much less the store owners who experienced what was ostensibly blowback from the shooting.

    2. well said. shame he had to go down but it seems that’s all they had left.

    3. It seems calling out the guard, and actually deploying the guard in an effective manner, are two different things.

    4. The divine judge of truth has ruled: the sex crazed maniac who’s failed to provide for his ten children and who’s failed to follow psychiatric treatment, deserved to die.

      He was a worthless piece of shit who should have died sooner for all the terror he wrought in his life of violence.

  16. Contrast what happened in Philly with what happened in Lancaster, after the exact same type of incident occurred.

    The arrested rioters got hit with million-dollar bail sentences, which took the wind out of their sails in a single night. The sentences were later reduced after shit had settled down. In fact, some of the rioters had probably driven over from Philly for an excuse to break shit.

    Philly is run by Democrats, who are fine with this happening and have no incentive to make it stop. Contrast that with Republican-run areas, who bring down the hammer and cut it off ASAP. Guaranteed that if the city leaders weren’t in bed with the rioters, at least half the destruction that took place this summer would have never happened.

    1. Exactly right.

      It’s not that cops don’t shoot people in Republican areas, they do. It’s that the populace understands that their protests are to remain peaceful, because if they get violent they get the book thrown at them.

      It’s akin to spanking an unruly child, if you do it right you don’t have to do it very much.

  17. Seriously? That the armed man was literally beyond reasoning with is being given as grounds why the police shouldn’t have shot him?

  18. “Walter Wallace’s family says the officers could have defused the situation without using lethal force.”
    Bullshit.

    1. They had already been out there 3 times that day to “defuse” the situation. That man was determined to not be defused.

  19. 27yo, father of … NINE? With a 10th on the way??

    1. I would have had a mental crisis after child number 4.

      1. Not quite. If he would have said “father of nine welfare suckling niglets” then it would have been racist.

        As it was stated, I don’t see any racism.

  20. Do the protests imply that the police would not have reacted with lethal force if the man wielding the knife was white?

    1. Yes. This is what they actually believe.

      1. Insane isn’t it? The reasoning of children now seems to be the rule of law.

        1. Everyone in that protest has a vote that equals yours. More so, maybe, since I doubt you will vote twice or more, and I can’t say that about them.

          This universal franchise thing may not be for too much longer.

          1. Bring back the poll tax and IQ tests.

  21. “Walter Wallace’s family says the officers could have defused the situation without using lethal force.”

    The family called the police three times that day claiming they were very concerned that Wallace might attack the family.

    Perhaps the family should have called a social worker or psychiatrist instead.

    Seriously, when the police are called to a home to protect a family from another family member who is wielding a knife, ignores multiple police requests to drop the knife, and then charges the police with the knife, nobody should be surprised that the police shot the guy.

    But after rioters injured 20 police on Monday night, Philly’s left wing mayor ordered the police to stand down and allow looters to steal whatever they wanted on Tuesday night, which encourage hundreds of other people to similarly loot.

    These anti police race riots and looting in Philly are going to help Trump win PA next week. People are fed up with this crap.

    1. “People are fed up with this crap.”

      Are they though? What will you say if it turns out that PA—after a few jillion mailed-in ballots for Biden get discovered, post November 3rd—ends up going for Biden?

      People will have been incentivized to allow social unrest and rioting, for political gain. That can’t end well.

  22. Aspiring rapper and the father of 10 kids all at the age of 27? A very busy man for sure. That said like what occurred to that man in Rochester, the police are not as well prepared for mentally ill violent citizens…but to “protest” aka loot as a response seems a bit opportunistic. Keep rioting “peacefully” in Philly and let’s what old Joe “basement” Biden says or that woke of a Gov who gave in to the looters today and claimed it was all racism by the police. What a soy boy

  23. I’m waiting for the democrats to argue that, because peaceful protests are preventing people from safely visiting polling stations, the election in those precincts needs to be conducted by door-to-door survey. On November 4th.

  24. A crazed assailant with a knife can cover a lot of ground fast even against someone pointing a gun directly at them. So many dunces out there “they didn’t have to shoot him”. I will take my odds armed with a knife at the same distance against these dunderheads armed with a gun.

  25. following Monday’s police shooting of Walter Wallace Jr., a 27-year-old aspiring rapper who was wielding a knife while experiencing what his family described as a “mental crisis.”

    One of these days, someone is going to have to explain to me what the connection between “aspiring rappers” and tragedy is.

    1. I say that “schizoaffective” disorder is often but not always a diagnosis that results when someone has a certain degree of brain damage from drug use. Broadening the category from “aspiring rapper” to “people who may smoke a lot of low-quality marijuana that probably has additives that may give you brain damage” is where I would go with it. I hope that legalization allows the research into what laced pot does to people. I have no idea in this case but in general, drug and alcohol overuse can contribute significantly to mental instability.

    2. Everyone. Everyone. EVERYONE, from the neighborhoods where tragedy most often occurs is an aspiring rapper. This has nothing to do with whether they are actually any good. Our public education system and it’s allied media complex has perpetuated the lie that all one is expected to do is try, and then one is fully deserving of the same level of reward as those whom actually succeed.

    3. Any loser who sits and rhymes to himself is either crazy or aspiring rapper. They sound the same. They look the same. They accomplish the same nothing.

      The only difference is whether their shirt is covered in drool.

  26. Can you put Haldol in darts and shoot people with those from a distance? Is that a movie thing or would it work?

    1. The problem with tranqs, or other chemical means of assuring either paralysis or unconsciousness, is that people tend to die from respiratory distress if you mess up the dosage. Or leave them to their own devices for too long. They aspirate food as they’re going under, fall into positions that make it difficult to breathe, and so forth.

      There isn’t a good, “stun ray”, that’ll stop somebody, without also stopping their breathing, heart, or both. And then there are the injuries they can suffer if they, e.g., take a whopping IM bolus of something like carfentanil or succinylcholine, and collapse on their head.

    2. Movie thing. Dosage is super critical, and usually a dose small enough to not kill them is too slow acting to end a threat. If you are going to load the dart with enough drugs to reliably end the threat, they were probably more likely to live if you just shot them.

  27. “Wallace’s mother, Catherine Wallace, says police should have known her son was having a mental breakdown because they had been called to the family’s house three times that day.”

    With 9 kids and one on the way , no wonder he was coming unglued.

    1. Think of all the grieving baby momma bastards.

  28. On a related note, my local news has a story about how many businesses downtown are boarding up for Election night, in case Trump wins again and there are riots

    1. They’re doing that in downtown D.C.

  29. There’s a special kind of “libertarian” who defends to the death an avowed communist’s right to advance his ideology but throws a fit when someone who’s been begged to come help with a problem defends himself from lethal aggression, just because the latter is wearing a blue shirt.

  30. I don’t give a flying fuck about your mental health if you are brandishing a knife within 10 yards of me, and if you start moving towards me or people I care about I’m putting you in the ICU or the morgue. I can not accept any ideology which does not allow the police to do the same. The cops don’t *lose* their right to life just because they put on a badge. We can never be taken seriously advocating for meaningful police reform if we do not recognize that in situations where someone has presented a meaningful lethal threat to a police officer they are going to get shot, and the police officer shouldn’t lose his job because of it.

  31. Any taser that could reliably penetrate all clothing and still be effective would be capable of killing.

    Cops are going to use what is reliable when seconds are the difference between life and death.

    Why don’t the families of these out of control lunatics bear some responsibility? They’re too busy looting and blaming cops.

    1. When each one of his baby mommas have three more baby daddys all jealous and killing each other, what’s to grieve?

      These people don’t know what a family is, much less value them.

      No, they can’t expect family support.

  32. Interesting NPR story on the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of tasers. Note particularly the effective range, which is well within the danger range of a knife-wielding suspect.

    https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/729922975/despite-widespread-use-police-rate-tasers-as-less-effective-than-believed

    1. Tasers should only be used when the threat is also less than lethal.

  33. From the video, I can clearly see that one of the cops is “lighter skinned” (I assume “white”), but the other looks rather darker perhaps??? Anyone have any information on the race of each cop?

    It’d be a shame if it turned out that a black cop shot a black perp; doesn’t really fit the narrative of “pervasive racism”, does it?

    1. All cops are “other” to the asshole brigade.

  34. NOTHING good ever comes from calling police. NOTHING. Not ever.

    We the people need to handle our own business and stop calling government agents for help for things we can and should deal with ourselves.

    Stop calling the damn police.

    1. Since Philadelphia makes it difficult to own a handgun, calling the police is the top option when faced with threats of violence and more force they you can muster is needed.

      Seems like the call to the police was entirely warranted here, but unfortunately there was an incorrect anticipation of a different outcome.

      At the end of the day, it’s not a matter of “don’t call the police”, but realizing that the police are not public servants, protectors of peace, or any other rosy propaganda. The police are the enforcement of law and when they are involved they will enforce the law using as much force as they deem necessary.
      If you need state-backed force, call the police.
      If you don’t need state-backed force, don’t call the police.

      Seems simple.

  35. “Wallace was the father of nine children, and Johnson said his wife was about to give birth to a 10th.”

    FFS

    1. I’m gonna go out on a limb here and guess that we don’t get 10 productive members of society out of this situation.

      1. Not very far on the limb Fat Mike.

  36. Multiple baby mommas. First wife.

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