Afghanistan

Trump Makes An Explicit Pitch to Anti-War Libertarians

Trump saying he wants to end the war in Afghanistan is a good thing. It would be better if he followed through on his rhetoric.

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In the waning days of the 2020 election, President Donald Trump is making an explicit play for the votes of libertarians, promising that he'll for sure finally end the war in Afghanistan.

"Thank you LIBERTARIANS. We are getting it all done, and FAST! VOTE TRUMP!!!" tweeted the president in response to a tweet from Sen. Rand Paul (R–Ky.) saying that Trump was ending our long-running conflict in Afghanistan and that he'd already withdrawn thousands of troops from the country.

Trump also retweeted the Being Libertarian Twitter account's praise of his supposed anti-war stance.

It's true that in 2020 the Trump administration made a number of moves to wind down America's military presence in Afghanistan. In February, the U.S signed a peace deal with the Taliban. Since then, Trump has drawn down the number of troops in Afghanistan to about 8,600, the number deployed there when Trump took office.

In September, the president nominated William Ruger, a libertarian non-interventionist and critic of the war in Afghanistan, to be ambassador to the country.

Should everything go to plan, U.S. troop levels in Afghanistan will drop down to about 4,500 in November, and could even fall to around 3,000 by early next year.

That's all pretty encouraging but it nevertheless comes after years of Trump escalating America's involvement in Afghanistan. Despite the anti-war noises the president is making now, he's still committed to keeping troops in the country for the foreseeable future.

When Trump was inaugurated in 2017, there were already about 8,500 troops in Afghanistan. Within a few months of being in office, the president had announced a troop surge, eventually increasing the number of military personnel in the country to 14,000 by 2018. At the end of 2019, troop levels were still hovering around 12,000.

During that time, the Trump administration also escalated America's air war in the country. Last year, the U.S. dropped more bombs on Afghanistan than any year in at least a decade. The February peace deal inked the Taliban hasn't stopped the U.S. from performing airstrikes.

The Trump administration, for all its talk of ending the war in Afghanistan, also has yet to commit to pulling all U.S. troops out of the country. "I don't think there's anyone who believes we'll be at zero by the end of the year," a senior administration official told NBC News.

That leaves little daylight between Trump's position and Joe Biden's. The Democratic candidate for president has said that he'd like to reduce the number of troops in Afghanistan while still leaving behind a residual counter-terrorism force of 1,500 to 2,000 at most.

That the president says he wants to end the war in Afghanistan is a good thing. That he hasn't yet done it despite being in office for almost four years is what actually matters.

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  1. There is a chance we’re out if Trump wins.

    There is absolutely no chance if Biden wins and Biden wants to get involved in other locations as well.

    1. There is absolutely no chance if Biden wins and Biden wants to get involved in other locations as well.

      I expect at least to go to war with Iran, and to get re-involved in Syria. I won’t be at all surprised to find us getting (re-/more) involved in Libya, too.

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      2. We won’t go to war with Iran, too many Obamabots in the State Department now to allow that to happen.

        Syria, though? I absolutely expect that to take place, along with a Color Revolution-type coup attempt in Saudi Arabia.

        1. Add Belarus and Armenia too.
          Maybe Nigeria

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        3. Syria and Iran are allies so I’d wager they get involved if we start fucking with Syria

          1. Iran won’t fly its own flag. They’ll just surge their proxies, maybe enough to bleed out some of the problems out of Lebanon.

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    2. Biden: We will probably break your kneecaps
      Trump: We might not break your kneecaps.

      Gee, it really is like picking between Kang and Kodos!

      1. Biden has a long history of breaking kneecaps. Trump’s long history is resort hotels and promising troop pullouts without delivering much.

        1. Trump’s history is taking government money to build cheap housing, getting sued for refusing to rent to black people, using eminent domain to force old ladies out of their houses to build casinos, driving casinos into bankruptcy, defaulting on loans to German banks only to be bailed out by the Russian mob, his personal lawyer ending up in prison, his campaign strategist ending up in prison, his other campaign strategist getting arrested, his previous campaign manager getting arrested, and waiting for about a dozen criminal investigations against him to play out once he loses the election.

          1. And yet he’s not obviously worse than Biden.

            1. That’s really the amazing thing here. As bad as Trump is, the D’s have managed to pick someone worse.

              Twice.

              1. ^^This.

                1. The Democrats of today are worse.

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          2. Yeah, Trump is a real estate baron who operated for decades in the sleazy political environment of NYC with its myriad corrupt and greedy bureaucrats, regulators, and mayoral aides. He is familiar with dealing with the denizens of the sewer. That’s the point.

            But while Old Joe has been a warmongering public parasite his entire career and destroyed jobs by sending them to China (“cliche”), Old Don — focusing on hotel/casinos rather than warfare — has through his business ventures, created tens of thousands of jobs for Americans from all ethnic groups, and also for undocumented immigrants.

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    4. Talk about being sheep, faithfully waiting for our two-party system overlords to deign to pat us on the head.

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  2. He’s had four years to do this, two years with a Republican led congress. So where is it? Why should I imagine he’s turned over a new leaf?

    It will be like the last four years. He’ll hint that he might bring back two or three soldiers, the Democrats and Neocons will freak, and he’ll say he was just kidding.

    1. Hasn’t Congress been fighting him over withdrawal?

      And should we ask what the ALTERNATIVE would do?

      1. TRUMP ABANDONED THE KURDS!

        1. Goddamn it’s as if the left forgets their withdrawal positions. Those Kurds.

          These were Saladin‘s people damnit.

      2. Congress made it illegal for Trump to pull troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan without their approval.

        Congress controls the purse, not where the military is stationed.

        1. Trump mentions the possibility of troop withdrawals from war zones and The Squad howls in protest.

    2. He sure kids a lot. But I suppose kidding about it is better than repaying the Nobel Peace Prize by starting so many new wars.

      1. I suppose kidding about it is better than repaying the Nobel Peace Prize by starting so many new wars.

        In a “if I have to choose one of them” way, yes.

      2. Did you bother figuring out what congress was up to?

        1. If you mean praising Trump when something happens you like, and blaming an obstructionist Congress when he doesn’t do something?

          No. You are all too full of that hypocrisy, and I see no reason to cater to your whims in that regard. You do it well enough yourself.

      1. Could Trump veto the bills? Removing troops from Germany cannot be done quietly. There has to be a fight and a veto of a defense authorization bill or whatever bill contains the troops remain language.

        1. Removing troops from Germany cannot be done quietly.
          Why? Nobody is shooting at us over there. Pack it up and get out.

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        2. They weren’t all bills first of all. And how many times has trump now been died and had a federal judge ban his spending on executive actions? Look. Hate trump. But don’t deny reality while doing so.

    3. “Why should I imagine he’s turned over a new leaf?”

      I think his leaf has been turned already.

      The US had multiple opportunities to repeat the same cycle we have been repeating since, essentially, the First Gulf War.
      – Turkey: He withdrew from the area, rather than continuing to fight in Syria.
      – Iran: He resisted numerous calls to retaliate at Iran after numerous attempts to escalate with us. He famously declined to make an attack on Iran that would cause loss of life, much to the fury of Bolton, et al. His single belligerent act was to kill the man who has been planning all these escalations in Iraq- and we haven’t heard from Iran since. (Naturally everyone on your side claimed this was going to make things worse.)
      – As Ken has noted, our “allied” government in Kabul, Afghanistan has been doing everything in their power to keep us from leaving the region- because they love our aid dollars, and our troops delivering it to them. Trump has dragged them to the negotiating table, and looks poised to end his term (or his first term) with the fewest number of troops since 2001.

      Has he been the Libertarian Savior? No. He has been a mixed bag. At the same time, in quantity of wars and escalations, Trump has done better than pretty much every president since Reagan- maybe even including Reagan. And this has been while trying to deal with the metastasized War Inc that perpetrates both the Dem and GOP parties.

      1. Pretty much all that.

        1. On this point At the same time, in quantity of wars and escalations, Trump has done better than pretty much every president since Reagan- maybe even including Reagan I do believe that POTUS Trump has done better than POTUS Reagan. That is not a slam on Reagan, either.

      2. Yeah, at this point I wonder even if a president Ron Paul could successfully outmaneuver the warhawks in congress and the army of career bureaucrats that infest every orifice of government

        1. I often times think about what it would look like if an outsider like Gary Johnson, Ron Paul or JoJo were to make it into power through some fluke populace movement.

          I hate to tell everyone, but it would pretty much look like the Trump administration.

          No doubt, Trump has made many own-goals. But he has also been resisted by 60- 70% of the staff his administration took over. And that is despite winning the GOP nod. Imagine what Gary Johnson would have inherited. Nobody- not the republicans, or the Dems would have been willing to help him. If they weren’t able to dig up some sort of skeleton in his closet, they’d just confound him constantly with shitty leaks and non-action.

          At the end of the day, if there really are any libertarians on this site, it is time to stop giving a shit about the Libertarian Party candidate for president, and instead focus on the local level. If there aren’t a significant number of reps in state legislatures, you’ll never get support in federal congress. And if you don’t get support in Congress, your libertarian president will be DOA.

          1. Gary Johnson and JoJo would’ve rolled over without much of a fight. Don’t know about Ron Paul, but I’m sure he would’ve been effectively neutralized as well.

            It is what it is.
            Trump is a dick. An aggressive, braggadocious, rude dick. But the permawar establishment are assholes, and a lot of the people who bitch about Trump are pussies.
            Pussies don’t like dicks, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes — assholes who just want to shit on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way. But the only thing that can fuck an asshole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is that sometimes they fuck too much or fuck when it isn’t appropriate — and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes, pussies get so full of shit that they become assholes themselves… because pussies are only an inch and a half away from assholes.

            1. A more appropriate use of this quote has never before occurred. Possibly even in its original context.

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              2. That’s a quote? From?

                I was going to praise the excessively silly word choices to make a great point, then you wrote it’s just a quote.

                Bards made me smile. Then you made me sad. So sad. 🙁

            2. America, FUCK YEAH.

            3. I award you 10,000 internets. I have an entirely new level of respect for you Nardz.

  3. I thought Obama, the great and wonderful recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize ended the “endless wars.” Did I miss something?….

    1. Obama picked up an antonym book instead of dictionary when looking up the word end.

    2. He was too busy closing down Gitmo.

      1. Shit. beat me by 6 minutes.

    3. He had to close Guantanamo first.

    4. Obama only wanted Smart Wars, not Dumb Wars like Bush’s, so he gave the country Yemen, Syria, Iraq III (Iraq I and II were dumb), Afghanistan IV, Pakistan, and the complete destruction of Libya…..

  4. Oh Bitchtits…

  5. Ya know… it’s going to be real difficult to actually advance any libertarian positions if libertarians just shout “LIAR!” anytime a major politician makes an attempt to appeal to libertarian positions.

    Trump’s a loud-mouthed, rich-boy, big-city, yankee… but why not throw him a fuckin’ atta-boy when he says/does something right?

    1. We do. When he said he wanted to bring home some troops we gave him the atta boy. Then the Democrats and Neocons whined so he never did it. So we took out atta boy back.

      Actions not words. Trump is full of words, not so much actions.

      1. The actions of day were in Congress. Do you often blame the wrong people?

        1. The actions of the *should* have been in congress but if you’ve been under a rock since WWII I’d like to inform you that at this point congress has pretty much delegated all that authorization stuff to the president, who’s on the hook for things like this now. So, he shouldn’t have been able to send more troops to the Middle East “to guard the oil” or some similar nonsense, but he sure did. He shouldn’t be the one to decide whether we’re engaged in drone strikes and causing the famine in Yemen, but he is. Oh, and when a joint resolution went to his desk on the Yemen issue, he vetoed the damn thing. Are we making carve-outs for drone strikes now? When was the last time anything under the War Powers Act even reached a president’s desk?

          Or how about using a drone to kill a foreign high-ranking military official, without that declaration of war of course. What did that count for? Are foreign assassinations cool now? Are escalations in tension given a pass? That was all him.

          We haven’t brought troops home from South Korea. We haven’t really brought troops home from too many places, some from Afghanistan in the past year but thousands remain. Plenty of troops in the Middle East still, and we’re evidently still fighting the endless wars and with the bellicose talk he uses in dickwaving contests it seems like a total crapshoot if we’re gonna get into some other foreign intervention if he is re-elected. Yes, congress abdicated their duties, but I’m not voting for them and can’t vote for most of them anyway.

          That, coupled by basically his dedication at going against pretty much every single libertarian principle (free trade, open borders, right to protest, executive orders, open racism, making stuff up about the Constitution, spending like a drunk sailor for a billion pointless federal expenditures, empowering the police and openly supporting police abuse, strengthening the administrative police state in DHS/ICE/CBP’s militarization, using FDA/CDC to kneecap the private sector in developing a working COVID test for 3 weeks when the test only took 1 to develop, openly railing against federalism, calling for capital punishment of those not yet convicted, negotiating a worse trade deal that puts up more trade barriers, hiring notorious drug warrior Jeff Sessions and notorious warmonger John Bolton and firing them for the exactly wrong reason, even at one point saying ‘take the guns first due process later’, etc etc etc) if you believe that he’s actually going to come through on anything then you should send me 0.25 bitcoins and I promise to send you back 25 bitcoins and I’m Elon Musk.

      2. “Then the Democrats and Neocons whined so he never did it.”

        What color is the sky in your world?

        1. School house rock has really failed us.

      3. “”Actions not words. Trump is full of words, not so much actions.””

        If Trump loses in November then he will be the first president since Carter that did not start a new military campaign of sorts.

        1. ”Actions not words. Trump is full of words, not so much actions.”

          President Trump avoided getting the U.S. involved in a full scale invasion of Syria–twice. One by coordinating with Putin to get the Syrians and Iranians to stop fighting against the Kurds and the anti-Assad forces to train all their efforts against ISIS–with stunning success–and the second time by withdrawing U.S. forces from out of harm’s way when Turkey finally invaded Syria to go after the Kurds. Neither outcome would have happened if Hillary or Biden were in office. If we never invade and occupy Syria, it will be because Trump was our president.

          Trump also ignored Iran when they tried to provoke us by seizing ships in the Persian Gulf. Trump ignored Iran when they targeted the oil production facilities of our Saudi allies. He only retaliated when the Iranians targeted Americans specifically, and even then, Trump targeted the man who ordered the attack against Americans. He didn’t invade. Trump’s sale of military hardware to the Saudis and others in the region is all about beefing them up to defend themselves against Iranian aggression–so the United States doesn’t have to . . .

          Still, somehow, it’s Trump who’s failed to stop endless wars.

          If we ever see such a reluctant to go to war president again in our lifetimes, we’ll be lucky.

          P.S. Trump is also pushing to get us out of Germany and South Korea.

          1. Who was the last President that didn’t like using the military like a GI Joe playset? Carter?

            My biggest beef with Trump’s military policy is that he hasn’t pulled troops back out of Iraq. The Afghanistan part he couldn’t do much about because Lynn Cheney and Jason Crow conspired to deny him the funding to do so, based on the unsubtantiated charge that the Russians had put out bounties on US troops there. Until that’s finished up, it makes it a lot harder to pull out of Qatar, Saudi, and the Emirates as well.

            1. A couple of points here.

              1) Both Bush and Obama were neoconservatives who abhorred pragmatism. All the presidents immediately before them did better than Bush and Obama on that count–going back to Reagan.

              The same reason Trump wants us out of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria is the same reason Clinton neglected to invade Rwanda, Bush Sr. chose not to topple Saddam Hussein and occupy Iraq, and the same reason why Reagan withdrew from Lebanon. If it isn’t in the best interests of the United States, then we shouldn’t invade and we shouldn’t stay there.

              Bush, Obama, Biden, and Hillary Clinton think that putting America’s interests first is racist, selfish, privileged, etc. They wanted to invade Syria for the same reason they wanted a militaristic police force to invade our nation’s cities to fight the drug war. It’s the same thing. Trump doesn’t think like that. He’s a proud pragmatist in the vein of Reagan and Bush Sr. And Biden, quite frankly, isn’t.

              2) Trump has pushed to withdraw troops from Iraq.

              “Gen Kenneth McKenzie told reporters the troop presence would be reduced from about 5,200 to 3,000 during September.

              Those remaining will continue to advise and assist Iraqi security forces in “rooting out the final remnants” of the jihadist group Islamic State (IS).

              Last month, US President Donald Trump reaffirmed that he planned to pull all troops out of Iraq as soon as possible.

              https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-54085129

              One of the best reasons to not invade a country in the first place is because withdrawing them is sooooooooo hard. ISIS hasn’t been defeated for long–and they wouldn’t have been there at all if we hadn’t invaded and occupied in 2003. If you leave and the place blows up behind you, I’m not sure that’s an anti-war thing to do either. You’re just setting the stage for your own return.

              Still, he’s pulling them out. He’s doing it! It’s just that the smartest way to go about it doesn’t necessarily sync with the election calendar.

              And have we heard about Biden’s plans to get us out of these wars? Is that something he’s even said he wanted to do?

              Last I heard, Biden said he wanted to keep around 8,000 troops in Afghanistan indefinitely.

              1. “1) Both Bush and Obama were neoconservatives who abhorred pragmatism. All the presidents immediately before them did better than Bush and Obama on that count–going back to Reagan.”

                Sorry, I cannot agree here, Ken. I think that all these people going back to Reagan were basically dipping their toes into intervention. The Cold War, Korea and Vietnam had left the US quite gun shy about military adventurism. But it was Bush I’s crushing victory in the First Gulf War that basically opened up the flood gates. Up until that war, it was an open question among many about how US arms would fare against Russian arms. When we humiliated Iraq with 10000:1 casualties, the opportunists started coming out of the wood work.

                Bush I may have been pragmatic, but in the long term, Gulf War I was a bust. For a decade, we would be on the hook for protecting the Kurds in a no fly zone, and dealing with Saddam’s constant provocations. Clinton, despite declining to intervene in Rawanda, went all in in Bosnia and Somalia. His “Pragmatism” showed bin Laden that the US would recoil in the face of an embarrassing loss of life. Bush II actually campaigned on a more dovish platform- condemning our operations in Bosnia and Somalia. But 9/11 would flip him. Obama was just a straight up shit-head hypocrite.

                All in all, Clinton and Bush I were responsible for creating a nexus of policy focus in Eastern Europe and the Middle East. Because of them, contracts for permanent bases were created, and entire departments of State and CIA analysis teams were dedicated to these regions. People in government built their careers on analyzing intelligence from these areas and recommending policy- people whose recommendation would never be “fuck this podunk shithole, let’s dust off and never come back”.

                “Pragmatism” means comparing the cost of an endeavor vs your expected gains. If Bush I and Clinton were really pragmatic, then it is only because they woefully under estimated the costs of their adventures.

                1. Bush I’s term was a huge reason the neocons had so much stroke in the GOP up until 2012. Between the collapse of the Eastern Bloc and Desert Storm, like you said, it gave them enough credibility in the party that they were able to influence the party agenda for many years.

                  TARP was the first shot in the neocons losing their grip, and now the GOP rank-and-file are completely done with foreign adventurism. The party’s almost completely realigned over to national populism, they have NO trust in the media or government bureaucracies whatsoever, and are now walking away from cultural pasttimes that used to be a means of providing the glue that could overcome political differences.

                  I wouldn’t be surprised at this point if the next Republican president re-implements the spoils system, declassifies everything, and burns the whole Wilsonian mass media/administrative complex to the ground.

                  1. This is what is meant by America First.

                    I feel for the Kurds, but if it isn’t in the best interests of the United States to go to war in Syria, then we can’t apologize for putting the interests of America first. The left wants us to help the Kurds first.

                    We can’t make nice with Putin because he’s opposed to gay marriage–not even when it’s in America’s interests to defeat ISIS without invading Syria?! The left wants us to put LGBT in Moscow first.

                    Neoconservatism graduated from Marxism, and it’s hard to argue for its basic tenants without alienating conservatives. It’s just that when you wrap anything in patriotism–especially in the aftermath of an attack on U.S. soil–the conservatives will come running.

                    George W. Bush was a southern Democrat in the tradition of President Johnson. Bush Jr.’s Iraq adventure had the same logic behind it as Johnson’s doubling down on Vietnam, and Bush’s expansion of Medicare was similar to Johnson’s Great Society expansion of entitlement programs. George W. Bush was emblematic of transformation of southern Democrats into the Republican party that started under Nixon and came to a head under President Reagan.

                    George W. Bush was a repudiation of the conservative traditions of Goldwater and Reagan, and Barack Obama was a continuation of the George W. Bush administration in every way that mattered. The separations in policy were nothing compared to the similarities. Culture warriors on both sides thought they were different because Bush spoke with an affected drawl and Barack Obama was of African ancestry–which goes to show how much attention we should pay to culture warriors.

                2. The fact remains that the pragmatism of Reagan, Bush Sr. and Clinton used American interests as a necessary but not sufficient reason to invade and occupy foreign countries, and the application of that standard helped us avoid the three quagmires I listed: Iraq, Lebanon, and Rwanda. In each case, a pragmatic president willfully chose not to occupy a country because it failed the necessary test of being in America’s best interests to do so–and if they learned that lesson from the failures of Vietnam, that does nothing to change the fact that they learned the lesson and the lesson was pragmatism.

                  That wasn’t the only pragmatic lesson they learned and put into practice during and after the Cold War. Because China and the Soviet Union were pushing expansion all over the world, we made nice with some really nasty dictators during the Cold War–pretty much whenever it was in America’s interests to do so. If it’s in America’s interests to let others fight our wars on our behalf so that we can avoid quagmires and still serve the interests of American security, then making nice with vicious dictators is what we should do–and that’s what we did.

                  Have you never read Jean Kirkpatrick’s arguments for why it’s a good idea to befriend authoritarians in the struggle against totalitarianism?

                  “The Kirkpatrick Doctrine was particularly influential during the administration of President Ronald Reagan. The Reagan administration gave varying degrees of support to several militaristic anti-Communist dictatorships, including those in Guatemala (to 1985), the Philippines (to 1986), and Argentina (to 1983), and armed the mujahideen in the Soviet–Afghan War, UNITA during the Angolan Civil War, and the Contras during the Nicaraguan Revolution as a means of toppling governments, or crushing revolutionary movements, in those countries that did not support the aims of the USA.[3]”

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirkpatrick_Doctrine

                  President Trump has followed the same non-interventionist path. One excellent example was Trump’s relationship with Putin. Putin’s allies in Syria were Assad’s forces themselves, the Iranian Revolutionary Army, and Hezbollah. By coordinating our allies in Syria with Putin’s allies to defeat ISIS (instead of pushing them to fight against each other as Obama had been doing), President Trump was able to bring about the destruction of ISIS without a U.S. invasion of Syria.

                  Neocons like John McCain hated Trump for this. This is probably at the center of the CIA’s and FBI’s animosity towards President Trump, as well. It ruined their plans! The neocons wanted a U.S. invasion of Syria just like Iraq, and they hated working with dictators like Putin for a couples of reason: one of which was that by destroying ISIS without A U.S. occupation, we left Putin and his allies in control of Syria.

                  Neocons are not pragmatic. They don’t care if making nice with Putin is in the best interests of the United States–if it means making nice with Putin. They believe that toppling dictators should be the ultimate goal of foreign policy–because they’re dictators–much like anti-fa believes in getting rid of the police. Talking about pragmatic concerns like benefits, costs, the likelihood of success, and the best way to go about it sounds evil to their ears. Neither Bush Jr. nor Obama and neither Hillary Clinton nor Biden would have made common cause with Putin the way Trump did. When Putin’s allies were fighting in Syria, Hillary Clinton was denouncing Putin for his treatment of LGBT in Moscow! Why would a progressive neocon make nice with a homophobe?

                  Trump not only made nice with Putin to defeat ISIS, he defended the Crown Prince in Saudi Arabia in the aftermath of the Khashoggi murder. Did you hear all the neocon voices screaming bloody murder that the security interests of the United States shouldn’t matter if caring about the security of the United States leads us to make nice with someone who murders journalists? They may not have put it in those terms, but that’s the logic behind their condemnation of Trump for supporting the Crown Prince and selling the Saudis military hardware in the aftermath of the Khashoggi murder. I don’t know whether the neocons today would have accepted Stalin into the alliance to defeat the Nazis–not even if it was in America’s best interests to do so and not even it was against the Nazis.

                  Surely there are fundamental differences between neoconservatives and pragmatists on these issues, and the fact is that Bush Jr., Obama, Hillary Clinton, and Biden are on one side of that divide–and President Trump is practically a lone voice on the other side in the tradition of the pragmatic presidents of the past, who purposely avoided quagmires in Iraq, Lebanon, and Rwanda out of a sense of pragmatism.

                  The fact is that Vietnam, Iraq, Lebanon, Rwanda, and Syria were all quagmires that should have been avoided–and could have been avoided or were avoided because of the pragmatism of presidents like Donald Trump. And the fact is that all those quagmires were desired by neoconservatives.

                  1. My point is that by the end of Bush I, pragmatism was out the window. There was no pragmatic reason for Bush I to go into Somalia, or for Clinton to double down there. There was no America-First reason to go to Bosnia- dragging a recalcitrant Europe the whole way. Indeed, among many of the Gen X Europeans I have worked with, it wasn’t the Bush’s that convinced them America was a war monger. It was Clinton’s adventures in Eastern Europe.

                    These boutique theatres have been brought on by analysts in the State Dept and CIA, who have gone native for their region. These people hold enormous sway over government policy, and have never seen a problem in the region that American force and their lucrative expertise couldn’t solve.

                    In the list of countries that matter to American interests, Ukraine should be about 6 from the bottom- just above Uraguay. Yet the remnants of the cold war policy desks, numerous think tanks- all funded by rich eastern European oligarchs- and career diplomats (and their sons) continue to push it to the top of the US policy queue.

                    Trump’s military aid to that region is better than sending troops, but we should be doing dick-all in this region. So he gets 3/4 credit for pragmatism. But our government should be doing absolutely nothing there. Yet special interests- parasites- the likes of Hunter Biden continue to keep it in the news so that we keep sending tens of billions of dollars each year.

                    1. “My point is that by the end of Bush I, pragmatism was out the window. There was no pragmatic reason for Bush I to go into Somalia, or for Clinton to double down there. There was no America-First reason to go to Bosnia- dragging a recalcitrant Europe the whole way. Indeed, among many of the Gen X Europeans I have worked with, it wasn’t the Bush’s that convinced them America was a war monger. It was Clinton’s adventures in Eastern Europe.”

                      Their pragmatism is the reason we didn’t occupy those places and stay there. They were by no means perfect in their pragmatism, but the reason we did things like leave Somalia (twice) was because the pragmatic reason for being there didn’t make sense.

                      You can make a lot of interference mistakes and get away with them–if you don’t invade and occupy the country on a long term basis. Bush Sr. didn’t occupy Panama. We interfered, but once we had Noriega, that was the end of it. Powell-Weinberger doctrine doesn’t say you never go into another country, but it says you don’t go in without an exit strategy. To a neocon, Iraq isn’t a failure. Iraq is going according to plan. They don’t need an exit strategy because they never plan to leave. If Iraq is a failure, it’s only because the presidents who came afterwards didn’t understand the plan–which was to project American power into the Middle East forever. They don’t want the quagmire to last indefinitely, but they want the quagmire because that’s how you make an omelet.

                      There was no pragmatic reason to occupy Iraq in 2003, and the pragmatic reasons not to occupy Iraq in 2003 were the same pragmatic reasons not to occupy Iraq in 1991. The difference was that George Bush Jr. was a neocon and his father was a pragmatist.

                      Here’s Brent Scocroft (Bush Sr.’s National Security Advisor) (another pragmatist) arguing against deposing Saddam Hussein and occupying Iraq in 2002.

                      https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB1029371773228069195

                      Nothing really changed between 1991 and 2003–except for the ideology of the Command-in-chief and the ideology of his advisors.

                      And that’s the difference we’re looking at today. Donald Trump is a pragmatist like Reagan and Bush Sr. Joe Biden is not–and neither are his advisors or supporters in the Democratic party.

                    2. “The difference was that George Bush Jr. was a neocon and his father was a pragmatist.”

                      You keep saying this, but I just don’t see it. For 10 years, our fighters were being shot at by Saddam as they tried to enforce the Kurdish no fly zone. For 10 years, our forces remained in Saudi Arabia, which was the main gripe of al Qaeda.

                      Bush 1 signed us up for an occupation that would ultimately destroy the World Trade Center, and oblige his son to two major wars in the middle east.

                      Bush I’s decision to not capture Baghdad could be called “pragmatism”. But in this way, so are tax cuts without spending cuts. Bush I could keep an alliance together by signing up as Saddam’s Zoo Keeper, but it didn’t buy us anything but trouble. There was nothing pragmatic about it, unless your pragmatism was “what is the sure fire way to keep this alliance together until I safeguard Kuwait, but who cares if we start a whole new front dedicated to destroying the US”.

          2. One quibble there Ken. The sale of arms to the Saudis is about allowing them to continue their war against the Yemeni people, with his blessing.

            Trump ain’t started no new wars, but his support of the obama/Saudi war against yemen is a huge black mark. What is being done there is terrible.

            1. “One quibble there Ken. The sale of arms to the Saudis is about allowing them to continue their war against the Yemeni people, with his blessing.”

              When you say the Yemeni people, don’t you mean Iranian backed Houthis militias?

              The alliance and sale of weapons to the Saudis, the UAE, and others in the region is about countering Iran.

              https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/03/us/politics/israel-uae-weapons.html

              1. No I mean the civilian infrastructure of the poorest country in the middle east

              2. I with you on most of this, Ken, but the notion that that all Shiʿites must be Iran proxies is just plain silly. Lachowsky is right. Obama’s policy to “placate” the Saudis by aiding them in Yemen is criminal and Trump has gone along with it.

                1. I didn’t say all the Shiites are Iran proxies. I’m saying that the military hardware we’re selling to Bahrain, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and UAE is about being able to defend themselves against Iran.

                  I would dare say that Bahrain and Qatar making nice with Israel isn’t completely unrelated to them coming together as allies to defend themselves against Iran, as well . . .

                  The following isn’t my original thought. I’ve read other people argue this elsewhere, but I find the following argument compelling:

                  1) When Iran targeted tankers moving through the Strait of Hormuz, President Trump did nothing.

                  2) When Houthii rebels attacked Saudi oil production facilities (at the behest of Iran), President Trump did nothing.

                  3) When Iran targeted Americans, Trump retaliated.

                  4) When the Turks invaded Syria to go after our Kurdish allies, President Trump did nothing.

                  5) President Trump left anti-Assad rebels to twist in the wind against Assad and his allies, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, and Hezbollah–once ISIS was destroyed in Syria.

                  If I’m Bahrain, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE, and I’m reading the tea leaves, there, it seems pretty clear to me that the United States isn’t particularly interested in defending them against Iranian aggression–certainly not under President Trump. Unless Americans are targeted directly, he’s not terribly interested. So, if they want to defend themselves against a belligerent Iran, they better buy themselves some military hardware and look for some natural allies against Iran–which is exactly what Israel is.

                  In other words, by making it clear to our allies in the region that we’re not taking responsibility for their security, President Trump made it clear that if they wanted to be secure, they needed to form an alliance among themselves and with Israel and they need to arm themselves. That’s why they’re buying hardware from American defense contractors with the Trump administration’s blessing, and that’s why they’re making nice with Israel. It’s because their security depends on it.

                  Meanwhile, the Houthi militias may not be as much under the control of Iran as, say, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard or Hezbollah, but they are allies with Iran. Not every Shiite organization in the Middle East is in league with Iran, but some of those Houthi militias are.

    2. Most libertarians now hail from Missouri when it comes to political promises.

      1. So, it’s not enough to negotiate and sign a peace deal with the Taliban–and force the U.S. backed government in Kabul to enter into peace talks with the Taliban.

        We have to wait for the Taliban to actually follow through?

        The only reason we’re still there at this point is continued leverage in the Taliban’s talks with the Kabul government. We don’t want a massacre as we leave, and if we can avoid it by drawing down troops as the Taliban continues to abide by our agreement, that’s a great way to keep pressure on them to abide by the agreement. No doubt, we should leave in April at the very latest even if the government in Kabul fails to make peace with the Taliban beforehand, but there’s no downside to calling the Taliban’s bluff until they’ve followed through with their promises.

        And so far, they have kept their promises. The Taliban inflicted a single casualty on the U.S. since Trump signed the peace deal with them.

        1. “The Taliban [hasn’t] inflicted a single casualty on the U.S. since Trump signed the peace deal with them.”

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_in_the_War_in_Afghanistan#All_fatalities

          1. Huh. Impressive.

      2. I feel like Charlie Brown when Lucy holds the football. Maybe out grandchildren’s grandchildren will get out of Afghanistan, but I’m not betting on it in my lifetime.

        1. But don’t worry, I’ll vote against Biden anyway.

        2. If Trump is elected, we’ll be out of Afghanistan by the end of April.

          If Biden is elected, all bets are off.

  6. In September, the president nominated William Ruger, a libertarian non-interventionist and critic of the war in Afghanistan, to be ambassador to the country.

    William Ruger? Trolling the 2A haters, and ending a war.

  7. OT (more or less) –

    Woman born c. 1918 casts a vote in Chicago – the punch line is she’s still alive.

    Good Morning America has the story, perhaps prompted by the local teachers’ union.

    https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/living/story/102-year-woman-casts-mail-ballot-ppe-voters-73389675

  8. It’s true that in 2020 the Trump administration made a number of moves to wind down America’s military presence in Afghanistan. In February, the U.S signed a peace deal with the Taliban. Since then, Trump has drawn down the number of troops in Afghanistan to about 8,600, the number deployed there when Trump took office.

    In September, the president nominated William Ruger, a libertarian non-interventionist and critic of the war in Afghanistan, to be ambassador to the country.

    Should everything go to plan, U.S. troop levels in Afghanistan will drop down to about 4,500 in November, and could even fall to around 3,000 by early next year.

    That’s all pretty encouraging but it nevertheless comes after years of Trump escalating America’s involvement in Afghanistan. Despite the anti-war noises the president is making now, he’s still committed to keeping troops in the country for the foreseeable future.

    1) The peace agreement President Trump negotiated with the Taliban in February of 2020 has the U.S. out of Afghanistan completely by the end of April 2021–and the Taliban is in Qatar negotiating a peace settlement with the U.S. backed government in Kabul right now as a result of that peace agreement.

    2) President Trump cut off aid to the U.S. backed government in Kabul because they were dragging their feet on negotiating with the Taliban. The Taliban and the Kabul government have swapped thousands of each others’ POWs. Why pretend that isn’t happening or that it isn’t because of Trump’s efforts?

    3) President Trump threatened to withdraw all U.S. troops from Afghanistan by the end of December just a week ago–a promise that mostly seems to be directed at the Kabul government, which is still reluctant to come to an agreement with the Taliban. The Kabul government is hoping that Biden wins in November so that the U.S. doesn’t leave.

    What does Britschgi know that the U.S. backed government in Kabul doesn’t know?

    If President Trump is elected, we’ll be out of Afghanistan by April at the latest. If Biden wins, we may not get out of Afghanistan until sometime after we get out of Germany.

    1. “What does Britschgi know that the U.S. backed government in Kabul doesn’t know?”

      Answer: Nothing at all. And his writing reflects it.

  9. desperate grasping at straws….. if he was going to do it, it would be done. he is going to lose, and he knows it….. he is clamoring for anyone that might buy his load of BS.

    1. “”clamoring for anyone that might buy his load of BS.””

      Describes every politician ever.

  10. Yeah Trump tweeted a week ago that all troops would be out of Afghanistan by Christmas.
    https://www.defenseone.com/policy/2020/10/all-us-troops-afghanistan-withdraw-christmas-trump-tweets/169105/
    Somehow Christian didn’t find that relevant. The pushback in the military and elsewhere is foreboding and if Reason’s favored candidate Joe Biden wins rest assured the war will last for at least another four years. But Christian makes an ass of himself once again. Why am I not surprised.

  11. Trump hasn’t actually reduced the troop levels but I will give him credit for changing the way Republicans react to the idea of troop withdrawals.

    1. He has been undermined every step of the way by Pentagon bureaucrats and his top brass. They don’t want a withdrawal they want another war. There is money in war.

      Vote for Biden and you will get troop increases and another long term war that gains the US little to nothing and costs trillions.

      1. Invest in body bags if Biden wins.

      2. Not just them, but Congressmen as well. Lynn Cheney I’d expect to try and stop a troop withdrawal, but fuckin’ Jason Crow? The fuck is he thinking?

      3. He is the commander in chief. Just because he doesn’t have the chutzpah to order the troops home and to fire anyone who defies his orders, doesn’t mean its not within his power to do so.

        1. Someone doesn’t fully understand how our government works, especially in regards to spending.

          1. Good thing you’re here, because you know everything about everything!

            1. Well you certainly don’t.

            2. Does this count as fake weekend sarc?

          2. Spending has nothing to do with it. Even if congress funds the war, trump is the commander in chief. He could choose to use the money to deploy the american forces wherever he wishes. Maybe in a defensive position in somewhere like California. That would be wise.

            1. “He could choose to use the money to deploy the american forces wherever he wishes. Maybe in a defensive position in somewhere like California. That would be wise.”

              Posse Comitatus says whaaaaaat?

              1. Posse Comitatus only applies to using American troops on domestic soil. Not to stationing troops around the country. Hence all the military bases everywhere.

        2. Except that the Dem-controlled House Armed Services Committee passed an amendment to restrict President Trump’s ability to withdraw U.S. troops from Afghanistan, last July.

          Nary a whisper from Britschgi when it happened.

          1. Indeed.

            https://portside.org/2020-07-04/house-democrats-restrict-trumps-planned-withdrawal-troops-afghanistan-and-germany

            Trump dragging his heels again. Sitting on his big, fat orange hands.

            Or, there are some people in our Congress positively glued to the idea of a perpetual military presence overseas.

            Trump is many things but he is not a warmonger. That much is clear.

        3. So, if Congress declares war, the President — in your view — can simply say, “Nah! Not doing it.”

          Is that the theory?

          1. This is actually accurate.

            Congress can declare war, but the President is the CinC. Congress does not have the authority to order troops into combat.

            Now, if there was a conflict popular enough in the brewing that Congress *actually* bothered to declare war, it would likely be political suicide for the President to do that. But that’s certainly not the situation we’re in now, because none of these conflicts are actual declared wars.

            Trump *could* unilaterally order the troops home, and fire anyone in the military who resisted. He could possibly even have them fired via court martial for refusing to follow orders. And even if the House ASC tried to make it illegal for him to do so, I’d expect him to win that case before SCOTUS.

            The issue is, doing things like that would put the troops in theater in a terrible position, and likely result in lots of casualties. And Trump at least makes a very good show of genuinely caring about our troops. (I am *not* saying that he doesn’t actually care. I’m saying that even if he doesn’t, he’s done an admirable job of faking it.) I suspect that Trump knows that the MI Complex generals would do everything that they could in the course of following those orders to make sure that “withdrawing troops unilaterally” developed a massive stench around it.

            Military officers start playing the political game around O-6. They’re fully involved by O-7, and anyone above that these days is almost entirely a political creature. A huge portion of them care far more about their post-retirement advisory sinecure than the actual military.

            Look at the DDG-1000 and F-35 for examples of how the brass cares far more about making sure the defense contractors get paid than about whether the actual fighting forces have useful equipment.

    2. This is a good point. Increasing mainstream support for anti-interventionism is a good thing.

  12. Britches troop #s don’t agree with the NYTYs “fact check”

    By Jennifer Steinhauer

    Pentagon Correspondent

    “You have Americans, bounties on American military’s heads in Afghanistan. They have more people there now, by the way, than when we left.”
    — Mr. Biden

    False.
    At the end of the Obama administration there were at least 10,000 troops in Afghanistan. While Mr. Trump ordered about 3,000 more to the country in 2017, they have since been drawn down to about 5,000. Secretary of Defense Mark Esper recently announced that forces in Afghanistan will drop below that by the end of November and Mr. Trump’s his national security adviser recently said on that the United States would cut its troops in Afghanistan to 2,500 by early next year.

  13. Since then, Trump has drawn down the number of troops in Afghanistan to about 8,600, the number deployed there when Trump took office.

    Those NBC links have current US troop levels in Afghanistan at under 5000 and a 10000 figure for when Trump took office

  14. Empty words are empty.

    1. Doesn’t Biden support pulling out of Afghanistan completely or doesn’t he?

      Do you know?

      1. What politicians say and what they do have very little in common, so why care about what they claim to support?

        1. So you think Trump sticking his neck out to make a peace agreement with the Taliban, withholding funds from the U.S. backed government in Kabul until they released the Taliban prisoners they were holding, and forcing Kabul to sit down at the negotiating table with the Taliban is just talk?

          Is Biden willing to even talk?

          Has Biden said whether or not he’ll support Trump’s peace deal with the Taliban and pull our troops out at the end of April. Because even if talk is just talk, what does that mean if Biden isn’t even willing to SAY he’ll pull our troops completely out of Afghanistan by the end of April?

        2. I mean, if SIV’s posts are correct, then he has actually drawn down troops in Afghanistan, so it would be more than words.

          1. Where did he get his numbers? Not from his hyperlinks
            Weird how one of my sources is one of Britches links.
            The other is a factcheck from the NYTs that Robbie linked to elsewhere.

  15. As an anti-war libertarian, I’m much more concerned about our ongoing war against drug users and the war against fiscal sanity since those wars actually involve massive numbers of American civilian casualties.

    1. I suggest reading today’s excellent article by Sullum delineating how Biden led efforts in Congress to greatly expand the disastrous War on Drugs.

    2. Well, I’d classify our foreign adventures as part of the war on fiscal sanity, but there’s no reason not to deal with*all* of those things.

      1. Oooh, here’s an idea. Swap out the troops in various foreign theaters with DEA agents on a one for one basis.

  16. That the president says he wants to end the war in Afghanistan is a good thing. That he hasn’t yet done it despite being in office for almost four years is what actually matters.

    Notice how Britschgi deliberately ignores the fact that Trump’s been trying to do this for the last two years while fighting off a coup.
    On July 1, 2020, the Dem-controlled House Armed Services Committee overwhelmingly voted in favor of a National Defense Authorization Act amendment to restrict President Trump’s ability to withdraw U.S. troops from Afghanistan. Any mention of this by Britschgi? Of course not.

    Fuck you Britschgi for lying.

    And here’s your fucking cite, White Knight, Tony, Jeff:
    https://thehill.com/policy/defense/505568-house-panel-votes-to-constrain-afghan-drawdown-ask-for-assessment-on

    1. That totally explains doubling the number of troops by 2018! Wow you’re so…. brilliant!

      1. Wow, you’re such an amazing fucking moron. Look at the dates dipshit,

        1. Does 2018 come after Trump’s peace agreement in Feb 2020 with the Taliban and his proposal for a pullout in March?

        2. Dude you’re so smart! Trump didn’t pull the troops out years ago because of something passed this year! I never would have thought of that because I’m a moron! Good thing we’ve got you to set me straight!

          1. So what the fuck does 2018 have to do with it shithead?

          2. Is it just me or does this troll even have a point he’s trying to make?

          3. You’re better when you lay off the sarcasm like you did in that post.

    2. Trump is the CIC. The troops go where he orders them.

      If the troops aren’t home its because he lacked to courage to order them there and then make sure his orders were obeyed.

      1. “ENOUGH OF THIS ‘BALANCE OF POWER’ BULLSHIT! I WANT A DICTATOR, DAMMIT!” — Lachowsky.

        Abiding by the law would be a change from the prior admin, admittedly.

        1. Why would anyone ever listen to libertarians, such as several posting here, when they do nothing but bitch when someone finally listens to them?

        2. It’s absurd to lament the president as a dictator for exercising the powers explicitly granted by the Constitution. It’s literally part of the job to be CinC of the military.

          I offered an explanation upthread as to why he likely *hasn’t* done this, but it is absolutely within his *legitimate* authority to do so.

          Please note that these responses of mine are ultimately directed at Lachowsky. He’s correct about the president’s authority here, but he’s missing the bigger picture about why it hasn’t been exercised. But it does no one any good to make flawed arguments against the position. Well, no one interested in sane and logical discourse. I think that you’re better than that, damikesc, and so are many of the other commenters here.

      2. Congress passed an unconstitutional law making it illegAl to pull troops out of iraq and afghanistan.

        The SCOTUS with Barrett will have to hear this case and give Trump yet another win against The Party of slavery.

  17. You’re the one who said a resolution passed this year is the reason Trump didn’t pull all the troops out earlier.

    1. That was a reply to Bitch’s Bitching.

      1. I’ll make sure your mom gets it.

        1. Don’t worry, her son gave it to her good and hard.

          1. Him too huh?

    2. Yes? What’s that got to do with 2018?

    3. Speaking of Republican blunders, has anyone else noticed that the government spending graphs for the Reagan-Biden Drug Abuse Law peak at 1987, when the economy crashed? The George Waffen Bush faith-based asset-forfeiture charts show similar behavior. Police looting of the populace no sooner exceeded all burglaries than the economy crashed and burned into a smoldering Depression. Enough of these prohibition/crash coincidences add up to causality once induction sets in…

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  19. Now that it’s too late, one Republican regrets embalming the platform dedicated to shoot-first First Responders™, preserving promises of mandatory minimums, asset forfeiture and threatening with courts martial states that are deserters from the War on Plant Leaves. The Dems got whopped upside with a spoiler vote 2×4 and learned. God’s Own Prohibitionists stand to benefit from that same lesson in the mechanics of democracy and logistic replacement curves. Don’t forget to say “Thank you sir, may I have another?”

  20. Foreign policy has been one of Trump’s greatest successes, and has been one of Biden greatest failures.

  21. “It would be better if he followed through on his rhetoric.”

    I would not bet on Trump following through on his words since even his own Chief of Staff says about Trump:

    “The depths of his dishonesty is just astounding to me. The dishonesty, the transactional nature of every relationship, though it’s more pathetic than anything else. He is the most flawed person I have ever met in my life.”

    https://www.mediaite.com/news/the-most-flawed-person-i-have-ever-met-trumps-former-chief-of-staff-john-kelly-reportedly-unloaded-on-president-in-private/

    1. Kelly isnt the most reliable source.

      And of course, all that iis, is the classic “anonymous sources say…” bs

    2. Oh, goody.
      Fucking TDS victim cites ‘tell-all’ article as if it means anything other than a symptom of asshole’s TDS issues.
      BTW, asshole, it’s paywalled; do you pay for BS like that? If so, I got a deal for you on the north anchorage of a bridge!

    1. Who was the Bahrains behind that deal?

      1. Jared Kushner.

        1. Kushner should be up for 2 Nobel Peace Prizes

  22. Trump hasn’t started a new war.

    This hasnt happened in over 100 years.

    1. Obama…niger, libya…
      Bush…iraq and afghanistan
      Clinton… somalia, yugoslavia
      Bush…kuwait, iraq
      Reagan…grenada
      Carter…iran
      Ford…vietnam
      Nixon…vietnam, cambodia, north vietnam
      LBJ… vietnam, laos, cambodia
      JFK…vietnam
      Eisenhower….vietnam
      Truman…korea, WWII
      FDR…WWII
      …. this shit just gets old

      1. Five presidents started the war in ‘Nam?

        1. Eisenhower…Indochina Vietnam
          JFK…South Vietnam
          LBJ…Regular Vietnam
          Nixon…North Vietnam
          Ford…?…US Embassy Vietnam?

      2. Trump invaded Portland with a Normandy-style beach assault, complete with shore bombardment, air support, and airborne forces dropped to capture key bridges. Seriously, do you even CNN?

    2. STAY AT HOME & WORK AT HOME FOR USA ►Check it out, and start earning yourself . for more info visit any tab this site Thanks a lotHere……………………… Click here.

  23. I recently watched The First Purge. I believe it’s the most recent film in the series. Released in theaters (if you remember what those were, from the before times) July 4th, 2018.
    I’d recommend giving it a viewing if you have the time.
    Entertaining in the ways you’d expect it to be.
    But also quite striking, because it is essentially
    The Birth of a Nation for critical race theory…

  24. Hey Rand Paul, if you’re going to carry water for Trump, please stop trying to associate yourself with libertarians. That’s just gross.

    1. RP should keep pushing Trump to follow through on the troop pullouts, if nothing else. That is a courageous stance considering Rand has been physically assaulted by war-and-surveillance-state goons for his non-interventionist legislative attempts.

    2. Donald Trump isn’t a libertarian, but he’s the most libertarian president we’ve had since before World War II–and when the choice is between Trump and a Democrat who’s campaigning on the socialist Green New Deal, bankrupting the gun manufacturers, bailing out the state pension systems of California and New York, and refusing to even address whether he’ll pack the Supreme Court, the libertarian choice is clearly Donald Trump.

      Being principled is about standing up for your principles even when it’s hard to do so. There isn’t anything principled about refusing to stand up for libertarian capitalism if it means voting for Donald Trump. I suspect some of you wouldn’t vote for Trump if he were running against Stalin. Imagine it’s June of 2021, Liz Warren is the Secretary of the Treasury, the Green New Deal is now the law of the land, the Supreme Court has been packed, the gun manufacturers are facing bankruptcy, and they’ve bailed out the states to the tune of $1 trillion.

      Being principled doesn’t mean you should bend over and grab your ankles so the progressive socialists can fuck you in the ass. When they’re screwing you, what you are you going to say, “Well at least I didn’t vote for Trump”?

  25. Make 6,000 dollar to 8,000 dollar A Month Online With No Prior Experience Or Skills Required. Be Your Own Boss AndChoose Your Own Work Hours.Thanks A lot Here>>> Read More.

  26. I love that phrase.

    Peace deal with the Taliban.

    The Taliban doesn’t make peace deals. They might make temporary cease fires to get us out of there and free up some money.

    1. So you’d prefer we keep troops there forever. Good to know and not surprising.

      1. don’t forget the plane loads of cash Obama sent to Iran

      2. Nope we should have left years before Trump took office.

  27. That the president says he wants to end the war in Afghanistan is a good thing. That he hasn’t yet done it despite being in office for almost four years is what actually matters.

    It was a negotiated end, not like something he could accomplish unilaterally.

  28. What is the objective record?

    On the warmonger side of the ledger…
    Well, POTUS Trump bombed Syria once. A one-off
    POTUS Trump did order Irans’s Soleimani assassinated while Soleimani was innocently exchanging Chelo-kebob recipes with his pal at Baghdad Intl. /sarc [the dumb SOB got cocky and he is dead]. A one-off

    On the other side of that warmonger ledger…
    POTUS Trump is drawing down troops from Germany.
    POTUS Trump is drawing troops down from South Korea.
    POTUS Trump is drawing down troops from Syria.
    POTUS Trump is drawing down troops from Iraq.
    POTUS Trump did not provoke WW3 with North Korea. 🙂

    I’d say POTUS Trump is the most anti-war POTUS we have had in at least a century, maybe more. He isn’t exactly itching to invade anyone. Quite the opposite.

    1. Trump also backed away from war with Iran, after doing enough to let them know he was serious, even though the generals were ready to bomb it into dust.

  29. 4 years, no new wars. that’s a better track record than Peace Prize Winner Obama.

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  34. There is no chance that Trump will end any war at anytime, especially before the election. His tweet is nothing more than a ploy to get libertarian votes. If you believe him, then vote for him. There’s a sucker born every minute, right? But I’ll be voting for Jo.

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  39. At least Trump didn’t start a new war.

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