Coronavirus

Donald Trump Switches Positions Again, Says Stimulus Negotiations Are Back On

The president's erraticism and Senate Republican opposition might save taxpayers from having to shell out for another 10-digit relief package.

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The roller coaster ride that is President Donald Trump's position on another 10-digit pandemic relief bill shows no sign of slowing down. The president now says he has resumed talks with House Democrats over a compromise proposal.

"Covid Relief Negotiations are moving along. Go Big!" tweeted the president today.

That's a reversal from Tuesday, when Trump surprised everybody—including, reportedly, members of his own administration—by abruptly announcing that he was walking away from negotiations until after the election, criticizing House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D–Calif.) for wanting to bail out "poorly run, high crime, Democrat States."

The president followed up that comment with a series of tweets urging the passage of an airline bailout and another round of $1,200 checks. The resumption of talks returns Trump to the position he held on Saturday when he was insisting that Congress work together to pass a relief bill.

With the president now back on board, House Democrats and the White House can continue to chat about how many trillions to spend on a relief bill before the election.

Last week, the House passed a $2.2 trillion relief proposal that included a continuation of expanded unemployment benefits, another round of $1,200 checks, and aid for airlines, renters, small businesses, and state and local governments.

The White House, according to reporting from the Wall Street Journal, has upped the amount of relief spending it could agree to from $1.6 trillion to $1.8 trillion.

Potentially holding everything up is Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R–Ky.), who today threw cold water on the idea that a COVID-19 spending bill would pass Congress in the next three weeks, according to The Washington Post's Erica Werner. Axios reports that Senate Republicans have no appetite to pass a bill largely crafted by Pelosi and would rather focus on confirming Amy Coney Barret to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Senate Republicans put forward a scaled-back "skinny stimulus" in September that would have extended, but scaled back the size of, expanded federal unemployment benefits, offered new loans to small and medium-sized businesses, and provided firms with liability protections from coronavirus-related lawsuits. Senate Democrats blocked that proposal.

The silver lining of Trump's erratic position-shifting is that taxpayers might escape paying for yet another gigantic expansion of federal spending at a time when the national debt is already roughly the size of the economy and the U.S. Treasury is running monthly deficits approaching $1 trillion.

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  1. “The president’s erraticism”

    I don’t understand how negotiations work. – CHRISTIAN BRITSCHGI

    1. This^^. Trump is giving a play by play. Have these people never seen contract negotiations between Unions and Employers? This happens all the time.

      1. With how much they quote Vox they should have some idea. 14 months of negotiations.

        https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5cfae100e4b04e90f1c97749

        1. Fourteen months for COVID-19 stimulus package when we haven’t even had COVID-19 for fourteen months? Hows that work?

          1. You can’t honestly be this stupid can you? Not every negotiation takes 14 months shit for brains. It was an example of conflicting sides in a negotiation. This is jeff level stupid.

            1. The important take-aways from the writings of the JesseSPAZ are the same as usual: All (except Nadless the Nardzi, Nasty NAZI, Der JesseBahnFuhrer, and Der TrumpfenFuhrer) are “stupid”, “shit for brains”, and “jeff level stupid”. THIS is how you influence and persuade people, for the GOOD!

              1. Fuck off, Sqrlsy, you Hitler-lovin’ racist.

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      2. You mean where the union walks out, killing the negotiations, then the union president tweets the next day that it’s back on again? Hmmm, don’t recall that.

        1. What do you think a strike is?

        2. Then you really are an idiot.

          The first rule of negotiating is that if you are not willing to walk away from the deal, you have already lost. Every. Single. Contract. Negotiator. Knows this.

          It is quite regular for the Union to walk out of the room and say “Contract negotiations are off. We were unable to meet in the middle.”

          This is why there is turn of phrase, “Get them back to the table”. It means to find a way to get someone to start negotiating again after they called them off.

    2. What would Trump know about negotiations? He hasn’t done shit.

      1. He knows everything. Someone even ghostwrote a book on the subject for him.

    3. Or Trump has absolutely no idea how to negotiate. That seems a whole lot more likely to me.

      1. How many buildings have your name on them? How hot is your wife/wives?

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  2. Negotiatitons were ended then restarted!

    Unprecedented!

    1. Trump now says, “I would like to see a bigger stimulus package frankly than either the Democrats or Republicans are offering. I’m going in the exact opposite now okay.”

      There’s no defending Trump. He just flipped 180 on you.

      1. Bloody bog-standard negotiating tactics. Just how low can Trump sink.

        1. You realize his pronouncements and sudden changes of whim have actual business impacts, right? As well as perceptual impacts among voters. This is not a costless tactic, if it is one.

          1. You realize that this happens all the time on negotiations? Like the last budget negotiations, this happened all the time- even resulted in some government shut downs during the Obama administration, right?

            1. Dude. please.

              1. Take your new sockpuppet, DOL, and cram it up your ass.

                1. It’s like a who’s who of dipshit trolls in here. Where’s Jeff? Or Escher? We haven’t seen JFree or Mary for awhile either.

              2. “Dude. please.”

                Doood! Fuck off and die.

  3. “Donald Trump Switches Positions Again”

    Kamala did that a lot with Willie Brown.

    1. What is the female politician equivalent of “foot in mouth” disease?

      1. Depends on how flexible they are.

      2. I doubt it was a foot in her mouth.

  4. “The president’s erraticism and Senate Republican opposition might save taxpayers from having to shell out for another 10-digit relief package.”

    Finally, some (potentially) positive news from the world of politics.

    Cut Spending!

    1. Too many people think taxes is the measure of government. It’s really spending, as you note, whether collected by taxes, borrowing, inflation, or minting that $1T zirconium coin.

      1. Yeah, kind of disappointing Trump isn’t receiving widespread condemnation on this site for restarting negotiations. Conversely, should have received more praise when he called ’em off.

        Britches almost gets it right in his last paragraph. Except that escaping another gigantic expansion of federal spending wouldn’t be a “silver lining”, it should be the main, golden objective of anyone with any libertarian sensibilities whatsoever.

        1. Do you want Kamala Harris as President of the united States? because this is how you get Kamala Harris as President of the United States.

          This would be a prime example of “muh principles!”

          Not participating in negotiations to send out Covid relief would be political suicide. Trump has proposed being straight forward about the funds and them being distributed directly to the people. He’s fighting the attempted blue state/city bail out. If he can hold that line, he’ll be heavily punishing the authoritarians who shut down their jurisdictions and locked up their citizens.

          1. Good point. I remember back in the long long ago, back before the covid ended the world and created this anything-goes-for-collective-survival situation we see now, there was this President named George Dubya. Ya see he had to throw out ‘muh priciples’ and sign a big stimulus package into law. Good thing he did too; because otherwise we might have gotten a Democrat controlled government. And then that Democrat controlled government might have passed the most socialistic healthcare program in the past fifty years…

            Hell with politics, keep it simple: Cut Spending.

  5. Still no articles critical of Biden this week. The articles on Pence-Harris cancel out. A single article on Jorgensen. The single bright spot is some criticism of Whitmer.

    T-minus 4 weeks and Reason is an anti-Trump fest.

    1. Plenty. You just need to read them. Duh.

    2. The name of the publication is “Reason”. It’s not “False Equivalency”. If Trump was simply a functioning adult human there would be good things to say about him. And Biden wouldn’t look so awesome by comparison. In any normal election cycle Biden would lose to whoever the Republicans put up. But he is probably going to win because the Republicans stood behind this dumpster fire of an administration. Go back and listen to what Miss Lindsey said about him prior to Trump’s nomination last time around. If it wasn’t so goddamned obvious it would sound prescient. In fact, this collapse was really the only possibility.

      1. Leftist lives don’t matter

  6. Whoa, the US has WMDs?!?!

    1. Stormy Daniel had Weapons of Mammary Distraction, I hear tell.

  7. Daily Mail has the far right terrorist group that was plotting the execution of the Michigan governor pictured in MAGA hats.

    Trump trash here was trying to call that militia group “leftist” this morning. When will they ever get something correct?

    1. I see one guy. Why lie?

      1. Why lie? Because reality does not comport with the narrative.

    2. Hey Jackand Ace!

      How you been?

      1. I think he meant “Jackoff Ace!” Buttplug’s autocorrect can’t deal with his pudgy pudding fingers.

        1. The Con Man was just bragging that he wanted more money in his bill than Nancy did.

    3. You mean the anti trump anarchists?

      1. The flag and multiple screeds were a ruse!

        One hat is all!

      2. THEM BOYS IS MAGA!

        1. Pretty sure they’re Antifa there, Poppin’ Fresh.

          1. Yeah sure. Antifa rednecks.

            You fucksticks are delusional.

            1. Fuck off shitstain.

            2. Lol, poor Plug.

            3. The vast majority of antifa is pimple white losers.

              1. They’re Boogaloo. The Michigan Militia terror gang are white supremacists.

                You don’t get more right-wing than “Aryan Supremacy”, fool.

                1. Do you have copies of the notarized membership cards?

      3. Probably the MAGA boys from MAGA country.

  8. The roller coaster ride that is President Donald Trump’s position on another 10-digit pandemic relief bill shows no sign of slowing down.

    YOU’RE NOT ALLOWED TO USE NEGOTIATING TACTICS MR. TRUMP! IF YOU CHANGE YOUR POSITION ACCORDING TO AN OFFER IT MEANS YOU ARE WEAK-WILLED AND ERRATIC! BUSINESS HAS NO BUSINESS IN THE HOLY HALLS OF BUREAUCRACY!
    – Regards, Billy Binion

  9. Very doubtful that anything passes before the election. Neither side will take a chance on the other side getting a political advantage. So yeah. Get on with confirming Amy. If the Ds take over in January it’s pretty much game over.

  10. I think that it is simply bullshit that a “stimulus” is needed. The job losses and business failures are simply a consequence of the shutdowns. End the shutdowns and the economy will recover in time.

    IMO the only thing to determine is, “How much has anyone actually lost due to the shutdowns and what will it take to provide some temporary relief from that loss?”

    By all means Congress, pass a bill that relieves the harm done by the shutdowns but let’s not fall for the Democrats wishlist of long term extreme changes. Seriously, how are subsidies for solar cells and windmills going to help workers who were laid of or businesses that failed because of the shutdowns.

    1. I would agree, Isaac (and it’s nice to see you commenting), except I think Ken has the right of it, and a significant hunk of independents will not get off their ass to vote for Orangey, if he doesn’t do this.

      Agree with you on what any assistance is supposed to do, and in a vacuum, that it likely isn’t required.

    2. The point of the stimulus is to buy votes.

      The stock market has been fluctuating all week as the prospects of more stimulus go up and down, but that’s a function of speculation rather than real world impacts on Main Street.

      There are some areas where stimulus could make a difference. If they need to expand classrooms so that there’s more spacing and so working women can send their kids to school and go back to work again, that will have an impact in the real economy. Trump’s aid to states was dependent on the states reopening their schools for that reason.

      Bailing out unfunded government employee pension obligations by the hundreds of billions of dollars, on the other hand, will be a long term drag on the economy.

      Not all stimulus spending is created equal.

      1. “The point of the stimulus is to buy votes.”

        Yes, and Trump wants those votes as much as Schumer, Pelosi and others in Congress.

  11. Apparently the rich assholes in blue states who want to lord it over us think they need bailouts.

  12. Goddammit, I wish you Trump Translators™ would tell me ahead of time when I’m supposed to take Trump seriously and when he’s being sarcastic or joking or negotiating, I can’t tell the difference so I just assume he’s talking shit all the time and whatever he’s saying is just random nonsense falling out of his face. How was I to know that when Trump says he’s done negotiating with the Democrats it’s really just Trump negotiating with the Democrats? You guys all seemed to know this (although it is odd that not a one of you bothered to fucking mention it until just now) so what’s the tell? How do you know when to take Trump seriously and when not to?

    1. He’s always negotiating. Why wouldn’t he?

      This is life. It’s a constant negotiation.

      The essence of this is that Trump wants to send us $1,200 checks (and give some relief to the airlines), but Pelosi won’t do any of that unless President Trump also agrees to bail out the states (especially California, Illinois, and New York).

      The Republicans, on the other hand, are not a party to this negotiation at all. They might sign off on sending some checks out–or they might not. There wasn’t enough support in the Senate for McConnell to bring a $500 billion stimulus package out of committee and onto the Senate floor, and I don’t see any reason to think that has changed one iota.

      If the Senate Republicans aren’t on board, this is just posturing ahead of the election. Trump can claim he tried to get us stimulus, Pelosi can claim she tried to get a bail out for the states, and McConnell can try to get a stimulus package through all he wants–but if not enough Republican senators will support it, it doesn’t matter what Trump, Pelosi, or McConnell wants.

      And that hasn’t changed one iota for months–since Pelosi passed her $3.5 trillion stimulus package in the House. If you’re confused about that, stop taking people like Britschgi seriously, people who can’t tell the difference between an ongoing negotiation, a deal, a non-starter, and a tweet. Just remember three things have been more or less true since May 15.

      1) Pelosi won’t accept a stimulus package unless it bails out the states.

      2) Trump won’t support a stimulus package if it bails out the states.

      3) The Republicans in the Senate (rather than the Republican leadership) prefer zero stimulus to all of the above.

    2. You’re not really this ignorant. Please don’t turn into another sarcasmic.

      1. So when the Trumptatorshit was telling us that the horrible, evil Mexicans… Mostly rapers, robbers, and drug dealers, except when they were not, when SOME of them were “good people”… Would build the walls for us? To keep themselves OUT of here, out of our pristine-clean place? HOW do we tell, whether the Trumptatorshit is joking, or not?

        All of the Trumptatorshit red-meat-fans fall for it, and they get their way… THEN, the Trumptatorshit was NOT joking!

        A compelling majority of Americans rise in outrage, at children separated from their parents, and thrown into wire cages? And the Trumptatorshit red-meat-fans do NOT get their way? THEN, in THIS case, the Trumptatorshit was JUST KIDDING AROUND!

        That’s as best as I can sort the jokes from the non-jokes. Ya got somethin’ better for me? Let’s hear it!

        1. I think you may be losing perspective.

          1. “HOW do we tell, whether the Trumptatorshit is joking, or not?”

            That’s my take-away question. I am confused… Please enlighten me! “I am done negotiating”… Except when I am not! Is not a “ship at sea” attitude required of a statesman? When does the “statesman” turn, instead, into a “boy who cried wolf” who can NOT be taken seriously, any more?

            1. If you’ve never walked out of a negotiation then you must not do much negotiation for a living. Meanwhile, as I said above, the basic terms of the negotiation have been constant since May 15, 2020.

              1) Pelosi won’t accept a stimulus package unless it bails out the states.

              2) Trump won’t support a stimulus package if it bails out the states.

              3) The Republicans in the Senate (rather than the Republican leadership) prefer zero stimulus to all of the above.

              On again, off again is in your mind–not in the real world. If reading posts by staff here at Reason, who don’t know what they’re talking about, confuses you, maybe you should NOT RTFA. This isn’t the first article I’ve seen this week that leaves people less informed for having read it.

            2. Gillespie once wrote something to the effect that Trump’s critics take him literally without taking him seriously where Trump’s supporters take him seriously without taking him literally. I understand he was quoting someone else, but that hits the nail on the head.

              When you made the comparison to statesmen being ships at sea, you didn’t really mean that, did you? Because ships at sea can’t be statesmen. Ships at sea are inanimate objects! How crazy are Trump’s critics to say that statesmen are ships at sea? That’s nuts.

              Either that, or some things aren’t meant to be taken so literally. And, yes, statements made about negotiations are like that. I’m not wiling to negotiate with you anymore does not mean I won’t come to an agreement with you–even if you give me what I want.

              Why would it?

              The three things I mentioned above have remained more or less consistent. If and when the parties involved are willing to budge on those issues, we’ll see a deal. Trump consistently refusing to spend money to get himself reelected in the face of a recession and weeks before an election is impressive. We may not see that again in our lifetime–especially over a principle like refusing to bail out the pension systems of California, Illinois, and New York with federal taxpayer dollars.

              He deserves credit for that from all libertarians–even those who want him gone despite what he’s doing here.

              1. The lack of “ship at sea”, being yanked endlessly from here to there and back again, is endlessly painful to trying to conduct business! China must be punished… So then American business people move their supply chains to Vietnam instead… At GREAT pain, and loss of profits and efficiency! Then as soon as Vietnam picks up the slack from China, and makes money by building our products for us, then THEY must be punished, as well!

                https://wwd.com/business-news/government-trade/next-trade-war-u-s-fires-salvo-at-vietnam-donald-trump-timber-currency-1234623771/

                Lack of “ship at sea” leadership isn’t just “negotiating tactics”, it is making us WAAAY inefficient, and hurting our standards of living, not just here in the USA, but overseas as well! As a business person, I have NO IDEA where to safely place my supply chains, OUT of the reach of totally random and arbitrary spasms of the Trumptatorshit!

                1. Do you really not understand that I was using “ship at sea” of people taking things way too literally–to the point of absurdity–as an example of the kind of criticism you’re making?

                  If you don’t understand what I’m saying at this point, it’s because you don’t want to understand.

                  1. “If you don’t understand what I’m saying at this point, it’s because you don’t want to understand.”

                    Or because I butchered it.

                    I was using your “ship at sea” as an example of somebody taking something way too literally.

                    The idea that Trump shouldn’t accept a deal with what he wants in it because he said he was done negotiating is ridiculous–almost as ridiculous as someone thinking you’re insane because you used a metaphor and they took it literally.

                    Meanwhile, the points of contention remain what they’ve always been since mid-May.

              2. “Gillespie once wrote something to the effect that Trump’s critics take him literally without taking him seriously where Trump’s supporters take him seriously without taking him literally. I understand he was quoting someone else, but that hits the nail on the head.”

                The author of that spot-on analogy was western PA reporter Salena Zito, who also wrote a book about a dozen swing counties in different states that voted for Trump in 2016.

  13. How many 180 reversals is this?

    Donald Trump shreds like Tony Hawk.

  14. Hey Peanuts, even AG Barr wouldn’t go along with the Durham con game cooked up by The Dotard.

    Too bad! They had nothing!

    But you fell for it!

    1. Good to see you’re dealing with your ED problem.

  15. Trump: Here is a trillion dollars for the stimulus
    Democrats: America needs way more than that to revitalize the abortion and empty tin can flying industries. WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA.

    Trump: OK, no deal
    Democrats: You are killing children and not in our preferred way!

    Trump: Let’s try this again
    Democrats: ARGLE BARGLE

    He should just take a long vacation until November and say he is stimulating the airlines. He would probably win anyway

  16. Remember back when Trump agreed to give Dems their “dreamer” legislation if they’d give him his “wall” money & Dems said okay.
    Then Trump backed out.

    How many times has he done this now? I disagree with much of the Dem party agenda … but in their defense on negotations, why should they trust Trump on anything at all?

    1. When did the Democrats give Trump money for his wall?

      Can you link to it?

      1. Vivtim of fate believes in the literal opposite of reality.
        It’s psychosis

    2. “Remember back when Trump agreed to give Dems their “dreamer” legislation if they’d give him his “wall” money & Dems said okay.”

      A simple Google search confirms this!

      https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/19/us/politics/trump-proposal-daca-wall.html

      Trump Offers Temporary Protections for ‘Dreamers’ in Exchange for Wall Funding

      Of course, the NY Times (and anyone else critical of Trump or His Actions) is “Marxist”, so GOOD LUCK convincing any brain-locked ideologues! I do wonder what “temporary” would have meant… Probably “10 days, or until I change my mind, whichever comes first”!

      1. You seem to be missing the point. Either that or you didn’t bother to read your own link, the first two paragraphs of which read:

        “WASHINGTON — President Trump, facing a growing public backlash over the partial government shutdown, shifted course on Saturday and offered Democrats a deal: temporary protections for roughly 700,000 young undocumented immigrants in exchange for $5.7 billion in funding for a wall along the southern border.

        But the proposal, which Mr. Trump unveiled in a 13-minute address from the White House, appeared dead on arrival in the Capitol. Speaker Nancy Pelosi rejected it even before Mr. Trump spoke, and Senator Chuck Schumer, the Democratic leader, denounced the offer as “not a compromise but more hostage taking.”

        —-SQRLSY One’s link to the New York Times

        Because Trump offered the Democrats a deal to protect the Dreamers if they would finance his wall doesn’t prove that Trump reneged on the deal or broke his promise. And that’s because the Democrats never took him up on his offer.

        They preferred to leave those 700,000 dreamers to twist in the wind rather than give Trump $5.7 billion in wall funding–and Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and the Democrats should all be ashamed of themselves for doing that.

        I repeat, can you link to where the Democrats gave Trump the funding for his wall–or have you given up?

        1. I can link to a way-plausible reason WHY “Team D” didn’t trust The Donald’s promises! (Besides the obvious; a “temporary” halt to evicting dreamers, v/s a permanent wall). Donald Trump promised to repay his lenders, and reneged at least 4 times!

          http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/donald-trump-scandals/474726/

          “The Many Scandals of Donald Trump: A Cheat Sheet”
          From there…

          “The dirt: Four times in his career, Trump’s companies have entered bankruptcy.

          In the late 1980s, after insisting that his major qualification to build a new casino in Atlantic City was that he wouldn’t need to use junk bonds, Trump used junk bonds to build Trump Taj Mahal. He built the casino, but couldn’t keep up with interest payments, so his company declared bankruptcy in 1991.”

          I can imagine why people don’t trust him! I wouldn’t trust him to dog-sit for me, let alone for him to lend money from me!

          1. President Trump has lived by the terms of a deal he made–with the Taliban.

            And going into bankruptcy after being an Atlantic City casino magnate that started in the early 1980s isn’t evidence of anything untoward on Trump’s part. It’s just evidence of the emergence of Indian casinos sprouting up all over New England in the wake of the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act of 1988.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Gaming_Regulatory_Act

            In the meantime, don’t pull a hamstring running around with those goalposts. The fact is that the Democrats never took Trump up on his offer, so any claim that he reneged on that deal is either ignorant or dishonest.

            1. Trump also broke his marriage vows and slept with a porn star while his wife was pregnant, and was divorced twice… Who knows HOW many affairs he’s had! Don’t trust ANY vows made by Trump!

              Wrapping it back to matters at hand, stimulus spending… We KNOW that Trump will take spending authorized for a specific purpose, per the Constitution, for rebuilding facilities on military bases for example, and divert the funds to wall-building! The “executive officer” here seems to have final control on where and how the money is spent, in total disobedience to the USA Constitution! Did not Trump swear an oath to obey the Constitution? And to execute his duties accordingly?

              So what is to prevent Him from taking funds allocated by Congress, for prolonged unemployment benefits, and spending them on walls instead? Or getting fancy haircuts and not paying taxes on said services, declaring them as business expenses?

              https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/06/business/trump-taxes-hair.html
              Trump Took $70,000 in Tax Deductions for Hair Care. Experts Say That’s Illegal.
              It’s a small but telling detail in The Times’s exposé on the president’s taxes.

              Do NOT trust this POTUS! He lies and cheats, like fish swim!

              1. You’re acting like Shrike.

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  18. Dear SCOTUS – Please show us where in the U.S. Constitution the USA even has the authority to “bail-out” anything economically short of themselves…

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  23. “Donald Trump Switches Positions Again,”

    From draft dodging decades ago to recent debate ducking to these current serial instant position switches Donald Trump proves again and again that he is a lifelong physical, moral and intellectual coward.

    Trump’s passion for tyranny and false bravado grow from the same seed, cowardice.

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