Coronavirus

It's Way Past Time for the Rest of Us To Get the Same Access to COVID-19 Testing That the Trump Family Enjoys

COVID-19 testing is not "overrated."

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President Donald Trump, first lady Melania Trump, and presidential aide Hope Hicks have tested positive for the coronavirus that causes COVID-19. At this point the president is reportedly suffering from cold-like symptoms. All attendees at his campaign fundraiser at his Bedminster golf course yesterday are being urged to get tested for the virus.

Daily COVID-19 testing of the president began in early May, after his personal valet tested positive for the virus. Yet just one week later, at a campaign stop in Allentown, Pennsylvania, the president opined, "It could be that testing is, frankly, overrated. Maybe it is overrated. But whatever. They start yelling, 'We want more. We want more.' You know, they always say, 'We want more. We want more'—because they don't want to give you credit. Then we do more and they say, 'We want more.'"

The "we" who want more testing and who are failing to give the president "credit" that he evidently thinks he deserves for the relatively few tests that were then available are researchers and public health officials who have been arguing for months that cheap, rapid COVID-19 tests are a vital tool for jump-starting the economy by helping to contain the pandemic.

In a June 19 interview with The Wall Street Journal, the president again said, "I personally think testing is overrated, even though I created the greatest testing machine in history." He added that more testing in the U.S. led to an increase in confirmed cases, and that "in many ways, it makes us look bad."

At his misbegotten Tulsa campaign rally on June 20, Trump told his audience, "When you do testing to that extent, you're going to find more people, you're going to find more cases. So I said to my people, 'Slow the testing down, please.'" White House flacks quickly said the president had been joking. The next day, Trump contradicted that explanation, saying: "I don't kid. Let me just tell you—let me make it clear." Testing nationally may not have been slowed down, but it certainly has not been ramped up since June. It has been hovering for the past 3 months at around 750,000 tests per day.

That's not nearly enough testing, a group of researchers argued earlier this week in a New England Journal of Medicine article. "A regimen of regular testing works as a sort of Covid-19 filter, by identifying, isolating, and thus filtering out currently infected persons, including those who are asymptomatic," they explained. "For an effective Covid filter that will stop this pandemic, we need tests that can enable regimens that will capture most infections while they are still infectious. These tests exist today in the form of rapid lateral-flow antigen tests, and rapid lateral-flow tests based on CRISPR gene-editing technology are on the horizon. Such tests are cheap (<$5), can be produced in the tens of millions or more per week, and could be performed at home, opening the door to effective Covid filter regimens."

The Food and Drug Administration needs to stop dawdling and prioritize the approval of these cheap and rapid tests for daily use at schools, workplaces, restaurants, airports, and at home.

The president and first lady are taking the responsible course and quarantining themselves so that they do not risk infecting other people. It is way past time that we regular citizens have access to the COVID-19 testing that would give us the same option to protect ourselves and our families that the Trump family has been enjoying since May.

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  1. I would love for everyone to get tested and discover that practically everyone already has the virus or antibodies for the virus so we can all get back to our lives, and quit pretending that going to Target like this is saving everyone’s lives.

    Can we do that?

    1. No

      1. I quit working at shoprite and now I make $65-85 per/h. How? I’m working online! My work didn’t exactly make me happy so I decided to take a chance on something new… after 4 years it was so hard to quit my day job but now I couldn’t be happier.

        Here’s what I do…>> Click here

        1. Did you really quit working there, or were you fired because of your conservative beliefs?

        2. Does ShopRite have any workers left at all?

          1. no. The building got burned out right after it was smashed bup and burned down. Yuo know, those peaceful protestors, how they are……

            1. I quit working at shoprite and now I make $65-85 per/h. How? I’m working online! My work didn’t exactly make me happy so I decided to take a chance on something new… after 4 years it was so hard to quit my day job but now I couldn’t be happier.

              Here’s what I do…>> Click here

        3. Cheep slut munella, if you did’nt score a new Mercedes AMG after one week, you Whoring for chump change. Clik on link for real bucks.

    2. Can you show me the peer reviewed study that shows that most of us have been infected already?

      1. Peer reviewed studies are a postmodern Marxist plot to destroy Western culture.

        1. Can’t trust experts or science, they are just part of the deep state to get Trump. What you can trust are QAnon, your cranky Uncle Fester, and that guy on the Youtube video that seemed to make a lot of sense.

          1. I don’t give a shit what your credentials are. I’m going to trust myself. I had it already. I had a mild cough and sneezed and I couldn’t taste or smell anything for about 10 days. You know, like pretty much every other Coronavirus in the history of Earth. Forcing people to hide for something that is this mild to the vast majority of people who get it is beyond insane. If you’re old and you have something like diabetes, by all means, hole yourself up as long as you feel the need to.

            1. Yes! That’s how you do science, people! Use your personal experience to extrapolate to every other human on the planet, because they are all human, just like you! That’s true empathy – not putting yourself in other people’s shoes, but shoving your shoes on other people’s feet!

              1. If the majority of cases are asymptomatic like the science suggested months ago, then CSs experience is typical and the dying gasping for breath cases are the ones that are anecdotal.

                In other words, fuck you.

                1. Have you considered a career in social work?

                2. “In other words, fuck you.”

                  THIS is how you do science!

                  It is ALSO how one “loves one’s neighbors” in a Christian manner, Mormon-like, as instructed by The Loving Angel, Moroni The Moronic! And do NOT forget your magic underwear, which helps you to “formulate the Christian Love”, as has just been DEMONstrated to ye mere mortals just now!

                  1. The fuck you is asking those not infected to change their Iives for the few you fucking statist.

                    1. “If the majority of cases are asymptomatic like the science suggested months ago…”

                      Chuck The Fabulous and JesseSPAZ (The Stable Genius Junior) are medical SCIENTISTS, so STEP ASIDE! They are here to ASSure us that asymptomatic people can NOT spread the virus, so… Don’t worry, be happy! FUCK all those masks and social distancing… AND while we’re at it, FUCK YOU TOO! In a loving, Christian, Mormonic-Harmonic, magic-underwear way, of course…

                    2. Make up some more shit SQRLSY, you coprophagics love to do that. I never said asymptomatic spread doesn’t occur, and I never said that wise people won’t take precautions. Your straw men are barely held together because all your bullshit is so old and dry.

                      There are ways to engage in a program of public safety without bootstomping the freedom of people who are not sick.

                      P.S. You beat out the white genocide guy for bigotry today. At least doesn’t spew his bile directly in the face of those he hates on. Your mom must be so proud!

                    3. The fuck you is asking those not infected to change their Iives

                      Only tangentially. The fuck you was really for implying through sarcasm that CS is abusing anecdotal evidence while conflating CSs textbook typical case (asymptomatic at 80+%) with the actual anecdotal case (death at .3%).

                      It takes a whole other level of assholery to bitch about science while engaging in Science!, and that is what it takes to get a fuck you out of me.

                    4. Well, I’m glad to see that Chuck is smarter than JesseSPAZ (which isn’t saying a WHOLE lot, but it is SOMETHING, at least), enough to see that science isn’t a source of ethics or morality. This is where JesseSPAZ is now following in the footsteps of Rob Misek, who “scientifically” denies the Holocaust!

                      What I’m still not clear on, is the Mormon version of Christianity… The Mormon version, now, is it, “Fuck You unto others, as you would have them Fuck You unto you”?

                    5. Spaz, even your dog must find you a pathetic pile of shit

                    6. I thought you and Misek were great pals, Sqrlsy.

                      Just the other day you were claiming Hitler wasn’t even racist:

                      SQRLSY One
                      September.30.2020 at 12:53 pm

                      Yes! This FURTHER proves that Hitler was NOT a racist!
                      Since even Hitler wasn’t a racist, we can pretty firmly conclude that racism isn’t a “thing” at all!

                    7. I quit working at shoprite and now I make $65-85 per/h. How? I’m working online! My work didn’t exactly make me happy so I decided to take a chance on something new… after 4 years it was so hard to quit my day job but now I couldn’t be happier.

                      Here’s what I do…>> Click here

              2. Youre not doing science asshole, youre doing fear mongering. Science says to protect those who are vulnerable, not lock those up who aren’t.

                1. “Science says to protect those who are vulnerable, not lock those up who aren’t.”

                  Citation please! Science is about being data-driven, and proving your hypothesis. It can INFORM our ethical judgments, but MAKES absolutely NO ethical judgements!

                  YOU are an arrogant moron who doesn’t know JACK SQUAT about science, or being data-driven!

                  What does science say about whether I should breathe air or not, Oh Stable Genius Junior? WITH citation please?

                  1. Once he posts this dissertation, does he get his PhD from the SQRLSY Institute for the Criminally Insane?

                  2. Link? See latest CDC study on survival rate.

                    There is no way someone can be this retarded and function

                    1. Yes, there is; spaz is the example.

                  3. Science dictates social policy and politics, only in the so-called minds of Rob Misek and other Holocaust deniers, deliberately obtuse, stubborn, and arrogant people (“Science supports whatever I say”), and-or, in the minds of butchers of the English language!

                    Look, modern medical science and technology, and data-driven logic, PROVES that we could take an innocent and healthy person, kill him, carve him up for organs, and save the lives of 10 or 15 otherwise-dying people, by so doing! Has “science” now PROVED that we should do so? Or, for that matter, proved that we should NOT?

                    1. Speaking of holocaust deniers:
                      SQRLSY One
                      September.30.2020 at 12:53 pm

                      Yes! This FURTHER proves that Hitler was NOT a racist!
                      Since even Hitler wasn’t a racist, we can pretty firmly conclude that racism isn’t a “thing” at all!

                    2. Mamma is entirely TOOOO stupid to recognize sarcasm! What a surprise!

                    3. On the off chance that anyone cares, AND gives a shit about CONTEXT (which liars like Mamma are entirely to dishonest to give a shit about), what was going on here, is that right-wing nut-jobs were being right-wing nut-jobs ass usual, and arguing that Proud Boys could NO WAY EVER be racists, because they accepted members of non-white races! So I pointed out that Hitler allied NAZIs with Japanese “Yellow Aryans”… So Hitler wasn’t racist, either!

                      Disproving stupid ideas with MORE stupid ideas, using the same logic, escapes the mentally handicapped among us, though…

                    4. That wasn’t sarcasm Sqrls, and we all know it.

                      You’re a Nazi, plain and simple.

                      Now run off and play with your good pal Rob Misek.

                    5. Your tinfoil hat is in SEVERE need of a re-calibration!

                      Test question to assist your re-calibration:
                      Mamma is an arrogant, know-nothing, smug asshole, in my humble opinion… Now, is that a sincerely held opinion, or is it sarcasm?

                    6. Sqrlsy is a dirty, poop-eating, Hitler-loving racist. He’s admitted it.

                  4. Science has taken a back seat in this whole COVID debacle. We’ve heard a lot about “science,” but that’s not the real thing.

                    Real science told us that masks worn by the public do not slow the spread of respiratory viruses. That was why the CDC, WHO, Fauci, US Surgeon General, etc., were all in agreement about this, from before we even knew what COVID was until April.

                    Science tells us that respiratory viruses, including the other coronaviruses beside SARS-CoV-2, are aerosol viruses (thus rendering any masks besides N95 or better respirators and the 6 foot rule laughably ineffective). The entire science of epidemiology was the source of “flattening the curve,” which specifically means to make the pandemic progress more slowly without changing the “area under the curve,” or the number of hospitalizations (closely correlated with deaths). There is a reason that was the go-to contingency… it’s all that is possible when a virus is extant and widespread. The “saving lives by locking down for as long as we say” thing was, and is, political.

                    That’s all science that is backed up by decades of research and study. It’s still the state of the art knowledge base we have right now. Science is not a fast process, and it can take years for any given study to undergo the process and make the change from hypothetical to theoretical. There has not been enough time for any of what they are claiming as “science” now to actually be science.

                    Much of the actual science is done by university professors, but if the universities are closed and the grad students that actually do the grunt work are home under quarantine, who is going to be doing all of this science? The process is time consuming under the best of circumstances, on the order of years more than days, and studying a pandemic from within that pandemic is rather like trying to repair an airplane while it is in flight.

                    The aerosol deception from the likes of the CDC is huge. They told us from the very start that this virus is a novel virus that we know nothing about, except that they are damned sure that it does not spread in the same way as all the other respiratory viruses, including other coronaviruses. To postulate that somehow this virus is radically different from the others is kind of a bold claim to make when you know nothing about it.

                    The whole mask thing is predicated on the premise that the virus spreads by droplets, which are large enough to be stopped by the large pores on a non-N95 mask. So is the six foot rule, since droplets expelled during normal respiration or talking are expected to fall to the ground within that distance (sneezing or coughing propel droplets to considerably more than six feet, but the hope is that people will cover these).

                    If you don’t somehow make this virus unlike all the other respiratory viruses (which spread by aerosol), none of that makes a damned bit of sense, so they made the virus into a non-aerosol like they were inventing a virus for a thriller novel. Doctors and researchers have been begging the CDC to update its wild guess that says that COVID does not spread like all the other respiratory viruses and to accept that it actually does (and because of our experience with the many other respiratory viruses that do spread in that way, we know how to detect it, and COVID’s just like the others, not surprisingly), but they refuse to do that.

                    Carl Sagan once said that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and to suggest that this virus that we know nothing about is somehow unlike every other virus of its type is a very extraordinary claim, but there’s no proof whatsoever, and there never has been any attempt at proving it. It was just a bare, baseless claim from the start. Now there’s plenty of proof to the contrary not only for all the other respiratory viruses, but SARS-CoV-2 itself, and the claim that SARS-CoV-2 behaves like other coronaviruses is not extraordinary at all. Even so, the CDC continues to ignore the strong evidence to that effect.

                    That’s not science, just as it was not science when CDC, Fauci, et al, reversed themselves on the whole “masks don’t work” thing (and Fauci’s explanation as to why he said that was ridiculous). Those things are political, stem to stern. The science on the topic cited in March is still valid today– and as CDC, WHO, etc., said, masks don’t work.

                    If masks and the six foot rule are useless (and they are), then there is nothing that can be done to contain the virus now that it is extant, and the last thing that scared people who have been trained to think of government as the universal problem solver is that nothing can be done but to let it run its course in the broad sense and try to protect the most vulnerable in the specific.

                    Lockdowns don’t work, and can’t work, in any capacity beyond simply delaying the virus deaths, and even those delays come at a horrible cost in non-COVID deaths. It’s impossible to make the lockdowns airtight enough to truly let the virus run its course in every person that may have it without spreading. We’d have to keep everyone locked up… cops, firemen, paramedics, doctors, politicians, the people that run the power plants, the sewers, the water supply, and all the other infrastructure, all would have to be sequestered. The vast majority of people do not have two weeks’ worth of food that they can use without having any ability to refrigerate or cook anything (utilities will fail very quickly without people to operate them). And if you keep the cops at home too, who is going to enforce the lockdown? Criminals surely are not going to stay at home. Tell them the cops are all off duty and see how that works out.

                    That’s where following the science leads, and none of these so-called science-based governmental organizations have followed. They’ve made up their own science, where COVID doesn’t spread the way the data clearly show it does because fighting the imaginary, weakened, non-aerosol version would be a lot easier than fighting the real one.

                    1. Well said.

              3. Yes! That’s how you do science, people!

                Well, no.

                You listen to the experts, you read the research if you can understand it.

                And what the WHO says is that 90+% of people who get it survive. Almost 80% of those who get it are nearly asymptomatic.

                That’s what the WHO, the NIH, the CDC etcetera ad infinitum have been saying for months.

                Along with demanding masks and lockdowns.

                Compelled Speechless experience is the norm, per all the experts, all the data, and all the policies.

                Are you on some other planet?

          2. Holy shit the retard trio showed up quick.

            Feel free to look up sweden dumbfucks. Latest estimates, even fucking bailey wrote about it, show a possible herd immunity at 20%

            But you cowards keep hiding under your beds like morons.

            Those of us under 65 will take the percentage for dying less than the risk from driving every day and live normal lives.

        2. Peer reviewed studies are a postmodern Marxist plot to destroy Western culture

          Where’s Buttplug?
          This is how you do sarcasm, Plug.

          1. Fake Chipper is way less incelly and pathetic than the real one

            1. Notice how Jeff immediately ruined the joke by sperging out right after.

          2. “This is how you do sarcasm, Plug.”

            Says the moron who doesn’t even recognize blatant sarcasm when it sees it!

        3. Jacobs, J. L. et al. (2009) “Use of surgical face masks to reduce the incidence of the common cold among health care workers in Japan: A randomized controlled trial,” American Journal of Infection Control, Volume 37, Issue 5, 417 – 419. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19216002

          N95-masked health-care workers (HCW) were significantly more likely to experience headaches. Face mask use in HCW was not demonstrated to provide benefit in terms of cold symptoms or getting colds.

          1. Nice gish gallop.

            Ok, let’s start: “Thirty-two health care workers completed the study, resulting in 2464 subject days. There were 2 colds during this time period, 1 in each group.”

            Inconclusive, small study.

            Next.

            1. How the hell was that Gish Gallop? He stuck to one topic and study and kept it concise.

              You’re just snagging buzzwords without any clear understanding, aren’t you.

              1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop#:~:text=The%20Gish%20gallop%20is%20a,or%20strength%20of%20the%20arguments.

                “The Gish gallop is a technique used during debating that focuses on overwhelming an opponent with as many arguments as possible, without regard for *accuracy or strength of the arguments*.”

                Almost half the links are not relevant, another almost half supports mask wearing, and one was inconclusive. If he had a point, it’s not evident.

                1. I know what Gish Gallop is, you fucking idiot. It’s not arcane knowledge, and Junus Rilius wasn’t doing it.

                2. De Oppresso Liber
                  October.2.2020 at 4:09 pm
                  “https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop#:~:text=The%20Gish%20gallop%20is%20a,or%20strength%20of%20the%20arguments…”

                  I, for one, am impressed you could look up the definition of which most of us here were already familiar.
                  Do you have other tricks?

              2. That’s all he ever does.

            2. “Inconclusive, small study.”

              You have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

              32 people generating 2464 days is a longitudinal study and was entirely appropriate to the subject matter.

              That the study involved trained and educated health care workers operating in specific environments is the real issue. Average Joe miking it up as he goes along does not remotely have a chance of even matching their efficacy.

              Regardless of all that, it is on you to show that masks do provide a proven benefit. Not the other way around.

              1. making, not miking.

            3. Someone doesn’t understand statistics or controlled studies.

              1. 32 people with a single instance in each of the two groups? Tell me what conclusion to draw from that, Ted Cruz.

                1. Tell me what conclusion your draw from that, lefty pile of shit.

                2. I would have thought you would have at least googled ‘longitudinal study’ to understand your error.

                  You are either wallowing in you ignorance, or avoiding the issue.

        4. Cowling, B. et al. (2010) “Face masks to prevent transmission of influenza virus: A systematic review,” Epidemiology and Infection, 138(4), 449-456. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-infection/article/face-masks-to-prevent-transmission-of-influenza-virus-a-systematic- review/64D368496EBDE0AFCC6639CCC9D8BC05

          None of the studies reviewed showed a benefit from wearing a mask, in either HCW or community members in households (H). See summary Tables 1 and 2 therein

          1. From your linked study: “There is some evidence to support the wearing of masks or respirators during illness to protect others, and public health emphasis on mask wearing during illness may help to reduce influenza virus transmission.”

            Cherry picking contest. I win.

            1. You forgot the part where the majority of the population are not using N95 masks and many that are are not wearing them correctly.

              You lose. Because you are a losing loserface. Your cherries are rotten like your little Grinchy heart.

              1. He also missed the ‘during illness’.

                1. Cut him some slack. Jeffy has such a meager sack of intellect with which to work.

              2. Not to mention that the cherry that he picked literally says “during illness” and not “everyone, anywhere, any time, sick or not”.

                If you’ve got a fever, cough, and are oozing mucus, wearing a mask helps prevent you from spreading your shit to other people*. No shit.

                *Controls for people generally avoiding your coughing mucusy shit were not applied.

        5. bin-Reza et al. (2012) “The use of masks and respirators to prevent transmission of influenza: a systematic review of the scientific evidence,” Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses 6(4), 257–267. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1750-2659.2011.00307.x

          “There were 17 eligible studies. … None of the studies established a conclusive relationship between mask/respirator use and protection against influenza infection.”

          1. “Three of the randomised trials were hospital-based studies,
            4–
            6
            and five were conducted in community settings.
            7–11
            Two of
            these studies compared N95 respirators (designed to seal
            tightly to the wearer’s face and filter out very small particles
            or aerosols that may contain viruses) and surgical masks
            (used to block large droplets from coming into contact with
            the wearer’s mouth or nose) amongst healthcare workers;
            one trial found a lower rate of clinical respiratory illness asso-
            ciated with the use of non-fit-tested N95 respirators com-
            pared with medical masks,
            6
            whilst a non-inferiority trial
            found that masks and respirators offered similar protection
            to nurses against laboratory-confirmed influenza infection.
            5
            A trial conducted amongst crowded, urban households found
            that, despite poor compliance, mask wearing coupled with
            hand sanitiser use, reduced secondary transmission of upper
            respiratory infection ⁄ influenza-like illness ⁄ laboratory-con-
            firmed influenza compared with education; hand sanitiser
            alone resulted in no reduction in this aggregated outcome.
            11
            Although the remaining five trials found no significant
            differences between control and intervention groups, there
            were some notable findings. Household contacts who wore
            a P2 respirator (considered to have an equivalent rating to
            an N95 respirator) ‘all’ or ‘most’ of the time for the first
            5 days were less likely to develop an influenza-like illness
            compared with less frequent users in one study.
            9
            Another
            study found a significant reduction in laboratory-confirmed
            influenza amongst household contacts that began hand
            hygiene or hand hygiene plus a mask within 36 hours of
            the index case’s illness.
            8
            A trial conducted amongst resident
            university students detected significant reductions in influ-
            enza-like illness during weeks 4–6 in the mask and hand
            hygiene group after adjusting for vaccine receipt and other
            potential confounders.
            1”

            “Some useful clues, however,
            could be gleaned. Subanalyses performed for one of the lar-
            ger randomised controlled studies in a household setting
            found evidence of reduced rates of influenza-like illness if
            household contacts consistently wore the mask or respira-
            tor.
            9
            The authors of a randomised trial of mask plus alco-
            hol-based sanitiser and mask-only group amongst U.S.
            university students living in residence halls noted that their
            study may have been better positioned to identify a protec-
            tive effect because participants initiated the interventions at
            the beginning of the influenza season.
            10
            Cowling’s
            8
            finding
            that there was a significant reduction in the secondary
            attack ratio if the hand hygiene and mask plus hand
            hygiene interventions were begun within 36 hours of the
            index case lends support to this hypothesis”

            Jeez, you really like to cherry pick single sentences. You should read more of these things. Maybe you wouldn’t look like such a partisan hack in the future.

            1. *reads study where masks show no change and hand hygiene is the decisive variable, still concludes masks matter*

              1. From my quoted portion of the study:
                “…whilst a non-inferiority trial
                found that masks and respirators offered similar protection
                to nurses against laboratory-confirmed influenza infection….A trial conducted amongst crowded, urban households found
                that, despite poor compliance, mask wearing coupled with
                hand sanitiser use, reduced secondary transmission of upper
                respiratory infection ⁄ influenza-like illness ⁄ laboratory-con-
                firmed influenza compared with education; hand sanitiser
                alone resulted in no reduction in this aggregated outcome.”

                That’s not the conclusion of the study, at all. But sure, soothe yourself with the balm of fantasy. From the study itself:

                “In this population, there was no detectable additional benefit of hand sanitizer or face masks over targeted education on overall rates of URIs, but mask wearing was associated with reduced secondary transmission and should be encouraged during outbreak situations.”

                https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2821845/

                I was chastising the other guy for not reading the study. You didn’t even read the whole quoted portion. So you are arguing without even examining the facts.

                Remind me, what’s it called when someone has a deeply held belief despite contrary evidence?

                1. what’s it called when someone has a deeply held belief despite contrary evidence?

                  De Oppresso Liber

                  1. De Oppresso Liber doesn’t have “magic underwear”… Forgive him, for he knows not, what he does!

                    Maybe you could be a BENEVOLENT teacher, and lend him your magic underwear?

                    De Oppresso Liber, will ye be a GOOD weedhopper, and wear your magic underwear, even for a wee tad, whilst ye LEARN? While ye learn, amongst other things, to be science-minded, data-driven, all-forgiving, and NEVER foul-mouthed?

                    1. you forgot to switch to your killallrednecks sock. Lol.

                    2. Why aren’t you dead? You’re an oxygen thief. So stop breathing.

                2. “mask wearing coupled with
                  hand sanitiser use, “

                  1. It’s the same as the Maryland study that is the first study cdc used to promote masks. The change in hoslital procedures was with hand sanitizers abd other measures. Masks were a throw in.

                3. ““In this population,”

                  JFC it’s like you’re retarded.

                  1. Are you saying that nothing can be extrapolated from this study, unless we are looking at the exact same individuals who are in this study?

                    ” mask wearing was associated with reduced secondary transmission and should be encouraged during outbreak situations.”

                    1. You are still posting the same ‘study’ which contradicts you bullshit claim after all this time?
                      Aren’t you embarrassed about your inability to read?

                4. “Remind me, what’s it called when someone has a deeply held belief despite contrary evidence?”

                  Liberalism.

                  1. And by “liberalism,” I mean the term in its American sense, referring to the left, which is actually completely illiberal.

            2. Most people do not have the background to interpret these kinds of studies as you obviously do. This list was obviously cut and pasted from some anti-mask post or website.

              1. DoL/WK/whatever else he goes by does not have any medical sciences background. He’s made that abundantly clear already.

                1. But the CDC and the WHO do have that background, and they said masks do not work too. If you know science, you know it is a slow process, and a few published studies don’t disprove decades of tested, repeated, valid data. Until a study has undergone the whole process, ending with repeated results by other researchers, it’s just a hypothesis. If someone is telling you that some paper published a few months ago outweighs the sum total of study (repeated, validated stuff) done in all the decades before that, they’re a political figure, not a scientist. You surely know how many promising papers that are published end up being withdrawn as the process continues. There hasn’t been anything approaching enough time to change the “masks worn by the general public don’t slow the spread of respiratory viruses” paradigm. That paradigm was built over decades, and it was not refuted between March and April 2020.

        6. Smith, J.D. et al. (2016) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks in protecting health care workers from acute respiratory infection: a systematic review and meta-analysis,” CMAJ Mar 2016 https://www.cmaj.ca/content/188/8/567

          “We identified six clinical studies … . In the meta-analysis of the clinical studies, we found no significant difference between N95 respirators and surgical masks in associated risk of (a) laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, (b) influenza-like illness, or (c) reported work-place absenteeism.”

          1. This is comparing N95 to surgical mask, not masked to unmasked.

            Like I said, you should read them first.

            1. Gee maybe that is because the researchers understand that surgical masks were never intended to provide any protection to the wearer.

              1. Who said that masks have to protect the wearer to be effective? Your assumptions reveal your selfish bias.

                1. “Who said that masks have to protect the wearer to be effective? Your assumptions reveal your selfish bias.”

                  Your assumptions reveal your infantile fantasy that YOU are the focus of the world.

                2. It is about what is provable, and how it can be proved.

                  Not that you have a clue about how medical science operates.

                  But thanks for making that abundantly clear.

        7. Offeddu, V. et al. (2017) “Effectiveness of Masks and Respirators Against Respiratory Infections in Healthcare Workers: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis,” Clinical Infectious Diseases, Volume 65, Issue 11, 1 December 2017, Pages 1934–1942, https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/65/11/1934/4068747

          “Self-reported assessment of clinical outcomes was prone to bias. Evidence of a protective effect of masks or respirators against verified respiratory infection (VRI) was not statistically significant”; as per Fig. 2c therein:

          1. “Meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials (RCTs) indicated a protective effect of masks and respirators against clinical respiratory illness (CRI) (risk ratio [RR] = 0.59; 95% confidence interval [CI]:0.46–0.77) and influenza-like illness (ILI) (RR = 0.34; 95% CI:0.14–0.82). Compared to masks, N95 respirators conferred superior protection against CRI (RR = 0.47; 95% CI: 0.36–0.62) and laboratory-confirmed bacterial (RR = 0.46; 95% CI: 0.34–0.62), but not viral infections or ILI. Meta-analysis of observational studies provided evidence of a protective effect of masks (OR = 0.13; 95% CI: 0.03–0.62) and respirators (OR = 0.12; 95% CI: 0.06–0.26) against severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS). This systematic review and meta-analysis supports the use of respiratory protection.”

            Again, this supports mask use. You need to read these things all the way through.

            Or are you posting these in agreement with me? I really can’t tell because these studies all support mask wearing.

            1. I really can’t tell because these studies all support mask wearing.

              No actually, none of them do, and the fact that you keep missing why is absolute comedy gold!

              1. Can’t read? Don’t let that stop you from forming deeply held beliefs within minutes on topics you are deeply unqualified from opining on. Experts schmexperts!

                1. Can read; you are full of shit.

            2. Or are you posting these in agreement with me? I really can’t tell

              Didn’t stop you from Rorschaching them.

        8. Radonovich, L.J. et al. (2019) “N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel: A Randomized Clinical Trial,” JAMA. 2019; 322(9): 824–833. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214

          “Among 2862 randomized participants, 2371 completed the study and accounted for 5180 HCW-seasons. … Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”

          1. Once again, this is n95 vs surgical mask.

            They are not examining masked vs unmasked, probably because mask wearing is taken as such a given in medicine for the last 130 years.

            1. Why are you so defensive?

              Your desperation to disprove studies ypu don’t understand is palpable.

              1. Then refute my and the study authors’ conclusions. I merely stated the obvious (not relevant studies) or quoted the text from the study it self which showed mask effectiveness.

                You literally have no argument other than, “Nah uh!”

                1. “Then refute ”

                  I like pointing out how defensive you are instead.

                2. Prior to April of this year, these were the studies done and researched by the CDC to not recommend mask usage to prevent viruses you raging ignoramus.

                  1. You haven’t read it, Ted.

                    1. You are full of shit, bobby.

                3. Why? You clearly don’t fully understand what you’re trying to spout.

        9. Long, Y. et al. (2020) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks against influenza: A systematic review and meta-analysis,” J Evid Based Med. 2020; 1- 9. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/jebm.12381

          “A total of six RCTs involving 9,171 participants were included. There were no statistically significant differences in preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza, laboratory-confirmed respiratory viral infections, laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, and influenza-like illness using N95 respirators and surgical masks. Meta-analysis indicated a protective effect of N95 respirators against laboratory-confirmed bacterial colonization (RR = 0.58, 95% CI 0.43-0.78). The use of N95 respirators compared with surgical masks is not associated with a lower risk of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”

          1. For a third time now, this study looks at n95 vs surgical masks. No one studied unmasked prior to covid because it is taken as evident that masks work to reduce infection transmission risk.

            In conclusion, 3 studies you posted show that masks have a benefit in reducing infection, one is inconclusive, and 3 are not even relevant.

            D-

            1. You realize how spammy and desperate you’re coming across, right?

              1. love how “next!” became six more …

                1. Became nothing. He spammed all 7 at once. I took them each down in order, using quoted text from the studies themselves. It is amazing to me how the cultist brain is able to see what they want each time, even though the plain text disagrees with them.

                  1. It’s totally his fault you’re desperate and spammy

                    1. I’m spammy for responding, but he’s not for 7 comments in a row? Go cry more.

                    2. You’re ‘spammy’ because you’re full of shit.

              2. Uhhh he is correct that nothing in this link dump support an anti-mask argument in any way

                1. But it probably gives some gullible people confidence that they know better than the CDC.

                  1. Why are you talking to yourself?

                2. So, now it’s “anti-mask” to expect evidence in order to advocate for a behavioral change?

                  Or are you just trying to show the limits of skepticism?

            2. You are arguing with true believers. There is no convincing them using scientific reasoning. They are simply going to pull out some quote to reinforce their beliefs.

              1. Well, the more time they spend trying to use peer reviewed studies, the less time they spend doing “research” on facebook and patriotfreedomeagleblog.net. Eventually they will have to come face to face with the realization that they can either believe in the scientific method, or they can believe in Trump, but not both.

                1. They don’t read them and do not have your level of expertise in how to review them critically. That is understandable. There are many
                  more things things I do not know than things I do. In my field I am pretty good. I use journal articles every day but show me something about particle physics or aerodynamics and I am totally lost.

                  What most people around here want is talking points to ‘prove’ the other guy is an idiot followed by ridicule. It is a game not an intellectual discussion or learning opportunity. That in itself is an interesting observation.

                  1. Echospinner
                    October.2.2020 at 8:48 pm
                    “They don’t read them and do not have your level of expertise in how to review them critically.”

                    Correct; DOL’s level of expertise approximates a 1st-grade kid and most of us here have gone beyond that level.

            3. Well done embarrassing yourself. By the way, instead of demanding that people prove the negative (which ironically you’ve been given numerous studies of), how about you link the studies that prove the positive?

              1. I have many times. What do you think prompted this?

                1. You spamming a meta analysis that didn’t prove anything.

                2. Actually, you didn’t. Please provide me the study that shows the efficacy of mask wearing. From cloth, to surgical, to N95.

                  The problem right now is there is hardly any studies in this regard. There is tremendous unknown on this matter. Pretending otherwise doesn’t count. Nit picking other studies that show masks don’t work doesn’t count. Citing studies that basically conclude “we really don’t know, but it seems possible they help” don’t count.

                  I’m not an anti-masker, I wear one whenever around people. But I also don’t need to blow smoke up my own ass and pretend that doing so has any significant effect.

            4. Georgia has had no lockdowns, businesses are open, people dont wear masks, Americans travel from all other states, we have parties and family outings….

              My state is proof that Lefties are liars about this virus.

            5. No one studied unmasked prior to covid because it is taken as evident that masks work to reduce infection transmission risk.

              Youre fucking retarded. They started studying mask usage against bacteria and viruses a century ago.

        10. That many peer reviews studies cannot be replicated should raise some red flags.

      2. It’s wishful thinking in my part: at least then we could stop pretending that we can flatten the curve into an infinite line.

      3. Agreed. Rand Paul tried to put this crap about “already to herd immunity” to Dr. Fauci and was handed back his head.

        1. Rand Paul is an also a physician. Fauci couldn’t be bothered to refute him, so he told him he didn’t know what he talking about, which is not even close to the same thing.

          Maybe Fauci is a full of shit political appointee.

          1. Fauci has authored or co authored more than 1000 peer reviewed scientific articles in the field of immunology and infectious disease. He is one of the top leading cited authors on the planet in that field. He has served as advisor to every president since Reagan in that capacity.

            Rand is an ophthalmologist. He has hardly practiced for years. He did some general work and cataract surgery. I like him.

            On advice about a pandemic virus I am going with Fauci.

            1. Fauci knows next to nothing about epidemiology, hasn’t practiced medicine in over 20 years, and hasn’t done basic research in decades. He’s an overpaid pencil pusher now, protecting his fiefdom. He used to be a competent immunologist, but is completely removed from medicine and research now. As for epidemiology, he’s never had formal training in it and hasn’t taught it.

            2. A mandarin like Fauci likely doesn’t write his papers. Contractors almost always write the papers for a guy like Fauci (high level career bureaucrat who long ago quit doing the technical work…these types are all over gov)

            3. “Fauci has authored or co authored more than 1000 peer reviewed scientific articles in the field of immunology and infectious disease. He is one of the top leading cited authors on the planet in that field. He has served as advisor to every president since Reagan in that capacity…”

              He started in HIV research in SF and turned out to be a *very* good ‘political’ MD much as some MDs specialize in clinical or research fields; witness his obvious desire to avoid the drudge of doing medicine rather than doing admin and exercising power.
              He has compared this pandemic to the early occurrence of HIV and his predictions regarding infection rates for that disease were (also) wildly off the mark.
              Further, I can’t yet track it down, but from his focus, it’s an odds-on bet that few of his papers deal with other than HIV, or the treatments (including political response to same) of that disease.
              So far, he’s proved to be less than reliable, on the evidence of his own statements.
              No, I do not think he’s part of any conspiracy, but he’s held a well-paying, powerful, politically-appointed job for a long time, and the thought of going back to the lab is probably a good motivation to protect his turf. Like any bureaucrat.
              Yes, he’s a far better source than, oh Tony, or Cuomo, or Pelosi, or Trump for that matter, but not a word that comes out of his mouth is to be trusted any more than bureaucrats in general.

              1. “Further, I can’t yet track it down, but from his focus, it’s an odds-on bet that few of his papers deal with other than HIV, or the treatments (including political response to same) of that disease.”

                Sorry, not clear; the relevance regards his expertise in ‘infectious diseases’. His expertise is in *one* infectious disease, infectious in ways not relevant here.
                Fluid transfer and how to prevent it, in politically acceptable ways, don’t matter.

        2. “handed back his head.”

          That you think that was the outcome of the exchange certainly helps explain why you are so consistently wrong.

      4. It sounds like he wants that study to be done. Would be good to know. If there is a reliable test that will tell us if a person has been infected or exposed sufficiently to develop an immune response.

      5. Show me the peer reviewed study that proves the BLM protests weren’t a super spreader event.

      6. He can’t. That said, the CDC’s own numbers show that the vast majority is at almost zero risk of dying. If you’re over 65 and you have 1 or more serious health conditions, lock yourself up, but the sooner the 95% get it and get over it, the sooner the 5% can come out of hiding.

        Seeing as they are only a small fraction of the populace, it’s stupid to lock down 95% to extend the lives of those already knocking at deaths door at the expense of the future. Then again, they’ve been doing that same exact thing for decades.

    3. How about going to restaurants?

      1. Or hair salons, since Nancy can’t quite keep up with the rules in San Francisco?

    4. That of course is why the FDA is dawdling, as the author put it. If I know what my virus status is, I can make my own informed decision on what to do and we can’t have that!

    5. I dont ever want to be tested and never will.

      I dont care if I have had Kungflu. This is unscientific nonsense as the death rates clearly show that this is less deadly than Flu/Colds.

      1. Weren’t you assuring us back in March that the death toll would be less than the seasonal flu? Looks like you were dead wrong yet again

        1. a libertarian
          October.2.2020 at 3:04 pm
          “Weren’t you assuring us back in March that the death toll would be less than the seasonal flu? Looks like you were dead wrong yet again”

          Your TDS ate your cite; let’s see it.
          And why do lefty shits always take screen-names which are to claim what the aren’t? Hint: Like ‘World Famous Anything”, if you are such, we’ll all know.
          Pretty sure, like WK, we have one more lefty shit claiming to be otherwise.
          Prove me wrong, and NOT by claiming to be libertarian.

      2. Not in Trump’s age/weight class, unfortunately.

        1. The testing didn’t keep him from getting it. Stupid article.

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    7. The testing, like the creeping sniffles, is nothing but a farce. You’d have to be among the most feeble minded imbeciles that walk this earth to still give any credence at all to this Plandemic or the testing that has repeatedly demonstrated up to a 90% failure rate.

      Four friends make an appointment to get tested. They show up & sign in. After waiting for too long, they get impatient and leave. A week later, all four get a notice that they tested positive…. They never got tested.

      How blinded by your ideology do you have to be to continue to believe in this utter bullshit?

      1. My sister, her daughter, and the daughter’s boyfriend all had it at the same time, confirmed by testing after symptoms appeared. Meanwhile her husband, with repeated testing, was never positive nor ever showed symptoms. All those infected were fine within 10 days.

        Sullum would have us believe that more testing would have – not only justified disruption of their lives – but also somehow altered that outcome.

        1. yeah, the testing is only good for limiting outbreaks after they start. it can’t stop you from getting the virus.

    8. Slowing the spread was super important to save hospitals from being overwhelmed. It’s pretty clear that that is not going to happen at this point. This thing is mostly over.
      So if you really, really care about not getting it, take whatever precautions you want. But leave the rest of us alone. The healthcare system is fine. That was the worry. So stop it with all this shit. This is an endemic virus at this point. We are going to learn to live with it. Let’s not all become germophobes in the process.

      1. The healthdata.org and ourworldindata.org charts are still showing 700 people a day dying in the USA, which hardly makes sense compared to the European data. The USA is having a secondary spike in deaths following the secondary spike in cases, but other countries don’t show a second spike in deaths, even though they do show a similar secondary spike in cases.

        1. The US is a big place with widely varying climate. It looks to me like different parts of the country are having their epidemics at different times. As far as I know, the places that already have had big outbreaks are not seeing a second wave of deaths. Correct me if I’m wrong.

          1. It’s important to mention in any discussion that Americans are fatter, more stressed, and less concerned with exercise than the rest of the world. This coronavirus targets people like this.

          2. You are right. There are two patterns of infection going on based on primarily latitude. The early fast rise and quick decline like Europe and the NE US. For latitudes that correspond to the southern US, fewer cases spread out but starting in the spring and early summer. The US is basically a composite of those two curves.

            Most of the deaths being recorded now happened two months ago. It is mostly over.

      2. No it’s not almost over. Watch what happens to urban hospitals this winter when city dwellers aren’t going outside. Still, we probably could manage it everywhere else if most of us decided to wear masks until vaccines roll out.

        1. “No it’s not almost over. Watch what happens to urban hospitals this winter when city dwellers aren’t going outside. Still, we probably could manage it everywhere else if most of us decided to wear masks until vaccines roll out.”

          Bullshit assertions =/= argument or evidence, and you have nothing other than bullshit assertions.

    9. Can’t we just cut out the middle man and assume, since this virus is so contagious, that we all have either already had it, currently have it, or will have it, and get on with our lives so we can get out of our face diapers?

    10. If I want to risk my life with a bad diet, that’s nobody’s business. If I want to risk other people’s lives in a pandemic, that’s an externality. There is very little antibody testing being done, and immunology is not a perfect science, but it is unlikely that most of us have been infected. One clue is the excessive death totals last Spring. COVID seems to be significantly more contagious and deadly than the flu.

      South Korea largely kept the virus from spreading with far earlier intervention and far less disruption than we did. They started in January requiring extensive testing, quarantining (positive cases only) and requiring masks. Until very recently, their death totals plateaued around 300. Recently they jumped to 416 total cases, so maybe they can’t keep the virus away forever. You could criticize their approach as authoritarian, but they only clamped down on positive cases and masks. They kept their economy open. Maybe it is too late for the USA to do this because we let the virus spread everywhere. But this won’t be the last novel virus, and we do need to manage externalities without killing our economy.

      1. 1440minutes
        October.2.2020 at 10:54 pm
        “If I want to risk my life with a bad diet, that’s nobody’s business. If I want to risk other people’s lives in a pandemic, that’s an externality…”

        No, shitbag, that’s your whining that the world should keep you safe from catching a cold.
        Fuck off and die.

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  2. No no no. Taking any action whatsoever is communism! Being travel banned from the rest of the world is WINNING!

    1. Now do mandatory quarantines and blatant violations of 1A rights.

      1. Huh? CBP is the only entity in the US that has enforced quarantines. Both dem and GOP governors have announced “mandatory” quarantines, but have no way of enforcing them.

        So you object to our border control forcing potentially infectious people from quarantining before they enter the US? Are you in favor of open borders, then?

        1. What I said is in response to what you said. Not about open borders. But you knew that.

        2. How many church services did the CBP ban?

    2. So youre an authoritarian?

      1. De Opresso Loser isn’t an authoritarian, he just believes that government should control all things.

    3. “No no no. Taking any action whatsoever is communism! Being travel banned from the rest of the world is WINNING!”

      No no no. Offering lefty strawmen is supposedly presenting an argument!
      Fuck off and die.

  3. Huh, so Trump has coronavirus. Wishing him and the first lady a speedy recovery.

    1. That’s not something a real Chipper would say.

    2. Whoever is doing the handle spoofing, please stop. Not everyone want’s to play these stupid drama-queen games and like to actually be able to identify different commenters.

      1. white knight did it a lot.

        1. Yeah, he’s been pretty annoying lately. Sick of that shit, whatever the origin.

      2. It’s really me. Tulpa’s sock has fewer dashes at the end. I have the maximum number of dashes, you just gotta count them. Look, I’ll prove it to you:
        You have terrible taste in beer.

        1. “It’s really me…”

          Of course it is; it’s just not who you claim to be.

  4. The undocumented Tijuana witch doctor I visit says I’m as healthy as an American sex tourist with a flare up of herpes.
    #OpenBorders
    #MedicineSansCertification

    1. Your Tijuana witch doctor is probably more consistent and accurate than Fauci or the CDC.

      1. time was you could goto TJ on a Friday nite and just get beer and tacos, not beheaded

    2. Rabbi, you are one of the most entertaining commenters. I enjoy your work.

  5. Testing one day doesn’t mean you won’t be infected the next. The only thing to do is let it run its course and deal with it. If a million Americans die of COVID all that means is that 328 million other Americans would have to go on with life.

    1. Everyone must be tested every day for the rest of their lives.

      1. Everyone must be tested every day hour for the rest of their lives.

  6. I thought it was way past time to stop worrying about COVID-19, but the science-shamans (scamans?) say otherwise. Not all of them, mind you, but the apostates spouting heresy have been excommunicated so the entrail readings must be made more accessible.

  7. “The Food and Drug Administration needs to stop dawdling and prioritize the approval of these cheap and rapid tests for daily use at schools, workplaces, restaurants, airports, and at home.”

    Talk about burying the lead.

    1. The FDA is the villain again this week.

    2. The fda isnt dawdling or holding anything up. They emengency approved a rapid test last month from abbot. Ron delusionally thinks the testing industry is sitting on hundreds of thousand of test kits in a warehouse because some fda schmo wont check a box.

    3. The dirty little secret that Ron doesn’t mention is that these Rapid tests have nearly a 50% false negative rate. If you take the test and it comes back positive, you are very likely infected. But if it comes back negative, there is a 50% chance it was wrong.

      Pervasive use of these rapid tests could actually SPREAD the disease, as people who have symptoms take the test, come back (falsely) negative, and then go off to spread it around the country. This is why they are prohibited for use in proving you don’t have the virus (e.g. for flying, returning to work, etc).

      I have been able to get 3 tests with an hour’s notice for 2 and a day’s notice for the 3rd. The former were rapids and the latter was a 36 hour test. The idea that tests aren’t available right now is absurd.

      1. “The dirty little secret that Ron doesn’t mention is that these Rapid tests have nearly a 50% false negative rate…”

        Unless most every source is wrong, the false positive is also close to a dice-roll.

    4. A libertarian magazine would have called for the *freedom* to buy medical tests from whom you please.

      Anyone know of a libertarian magazine?

  8. I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that my niece went to the school nurse and said she didn’t feel well and was immediately suspended from school for two weeks unless she came back with a negative coronavirus test but the pediatrician wouldn’t give her a coronavirus test because she didn’t have any of the symptoms of coronavirus. So apparently, you can only get the coronavirus test if you are exhibiting symptoms of the coronavirus. Is it any wonder we have such a high percentage of cases if we’re only testing people we already have reason to believe might be infected? And meantime, what about asymptomatic people? You must be pretty goddamn certain that asymptomatic people can’t transmit the virus if you’re not willing to test people who are asymptomatic. I mean, as far as I know I don’t have the coronavirus, but what if I do have it but just don’t know it because I’m asymptomatic? If I did find out I have it but I’m asymptomatic, should I take extra precautions to make sure I don’t infect others, or are we 100% confident that I can’t pass it to others?

    1. The test positivity rate in the U.S. is currently around 5%. I’m curious about what percent of the 95% negative tests actually had COVID-like symptoms, what % were feeding their hypochondria, and what % were close contacts of infected people

      1. You pose some really great questions here.

    2. But I was at my doctor’s office a few weeks ago for my annual checkup, and asked if I should get a test although I showed no symptoms, and he said “We can do the antibody test right here, just need some blood.” so the phlebotomist drew an extra vial of blood, and I got the negative result in a couple of days.

    3. “So apparently, you can only get the coronavirus test if you are exhibiting symptoms of the coronavirus”

      Or if you came into contact with someone who tested positive.

      And by the way, this isn’t to preserve tests or to flatten our numbers. It is specifically to ensure that the sheer number of hypochondriacs don’t make the positive rate tank.

    4. The pediatrician wouldn’t accede to the request, knowing she has to stay out of school therefore?

    5. don’t send your kids to schools any more

  9. Let me get this straight…the President is taking responsible action by quarantining himself to prevent other people from getting infected. Wouldn’t he and his entourage have taken responsible action by wearing masks, particularly when at events? Wouldn’t his family have taken responsible action by wearing masks at the debate, in which they refused when asked? How responsible was it when he went to a fund raiser after learning Hicks was infected?

    Why is quarantining yourself if infected in order to prevent disease spread a responsible action but wearing masks less so?

    And the more important question for you all at Reason, suppose the President says on Saturday, “you know what, no more quarantining for me…I’m out and about.” That ok? Because, you know, individual liberty and personal choice.

    1. “responsible” action?

    2. Why is it worse to go maskless than it is to riot, loot, and arson?

      Hate the game, not the player.

      1. Are you serious? You just admitted total defeat.

    3. “Wouldn’t he and his entourage have taken responsible action by wearing masks, ”

      He decided to do something that works instead, unlike your social signaling.

    4. Masks have no effect.

      1. You people will believe anything Mark Levin craps in your ears but not the CDC.

    5. Straw man losing some straw….
      Quarantining infected people, by force if necessary, is a legitimate function of government, to protect the healthy.
      Quarantining healthy people because a bunch of Karens is scared is illegal and bad policy.

  10. Can I also get my own Air Force One, Secret Service detail, personal chefs, motorcade, and mansion? I mean, since we’re now all entitled to be treated like Presidents.

    1. NO! That would be socialism and America would turn into Venezuela.

      1. Well that oughtta solve the immigration problem at least. Gotta look on the bright side.

  11. “It’s Way Past Time for the Rest of Us to Get the Same Access to COVID-19 Testing that the Trump Family Enjoys.

    The Food and Drug Administration needs to stop dawdling and prioritize the approval of these cheap and rapid tests for daily use at schools, workplaces, restaurants, airports, and at home.”

    Trump didn’t get a cheap and rapid test from a home kit offered by a private company, Bailey. He got tested by a team of specialists paid for by government largess.

    If you think government funded doctors should be diagnosing everyone, you probably should start writing for Vox.

    1. I find it quite impressive how quickly testing has advanced for a novel virus. Back in Feb/Mar the CDC was sending out tests that didn’t work, then there wasn’t enough test components and the swab had to be shoved so far up your nose that it seemingly took its sample by scraping it off your brain. All for a cost of something like $150-$200.
      Now 7 months later Abbott has a test for $5 that you could do yourself (if you could be trusted to follow the directions). Stick that in the anti for-profit company narrative

    2. If you think government funded doctors should be diagnosing everyone, you probably should start writing for Vox.

      The FDA really needs to release the test that proves whether you’re a Russian asset before Nov. so that election monitors know who to let into polling places and the post office knows whose mail-in votes count and whose don’t. Simply relying on people’s COVID results isn’t going to cut it.

      1. Apparently they can already detect whether or not you’re a Russian asset by your political preference.
        Simply opening and removing the ballots of people who voted like a Russian asset would, will fix the problem. No expensive test needed.

  12. What you call “rioting” is really peaceful protesting against evil things like small businesses and private property. Going maskless is the worst kind of violent protest against being arbitrarily controlled by your betters. /sarc, btw

    1. oops meant to post as reply to Brian’s comment

    2. Think you can ride the racist fearmongering horse to Election Day while Trump slowly expires? Think it’s gonna work?

      1. Funny how you respond to a post and claim racism where none was found in that post. Goes to show how strange it is that lefties are always the ones who hear these racist dog whistles. I wonder why that is…….

        1. To try and scare minority voters into voting for them. They’ve been doing it since Tammany Hall.

          Outside of the German National Socialists, they’ve been the most racist party in Western history. Even Mussolini’s Fascists weren’t as bad. But look at them race-bait.

      2. the racist fearmongering horse

        You’re letting people ride you Tony?

  13. This pretty much sums up Trump getting the rona.
    https://youtu.be/-f_DPrSEOEo

  14. Hey Ron, abbot labs received emergency fda approval for their antigen test back in August, so your screed is dated, to say the least.

    Maybe you should also link to some of the current studies on clinical effectiveness, which do not yet point to clear benefits in treatment or tracing.

    You act like big government is the only thing standing in the way here, but in reality it is a minor piece behind the technical and more critical supply and manufacturing hurdles. Do you think its easy and fast to design a rapid, yet highly accrate test and widely supply it to a country of 350million people in less then a year? Fda approval is the single least important and smallest hurdle in this.

    1. Bailey is an idiot, but other than that the article was worthless. It’s a Trump bash piece, that finally mentions at the end that the “problem” lies with the FDA. GTFO.

    2. The medical #DeepState is responsible for most of US Covid deaths.
      They shut down early testing in favor of a CDC One Test To Rule Them All, which turned out not to worked. Lost a couple of months for testing when it might have mattered.
      They shut down HCQ use.
      And that’s just what they did over and above their usual stifling of our healthcare freedom, and not counting what a medical #DeepState with even a tiny bit of competence and responsibility would have done to halt an epidemic, or *prepare* for an epidemic.

  15. Or we can just go back to living our lives normally since this virus is so bad at actually killing more than 0.3% of the people who get it.

    Seriously, if you still believe this is some bad mojo disease you’re fucking insane.

    1. No actually you’re fucking insane if you just kneejerk believe the infection fatality rate is 0.3% merely because you believe in some magic world where virtually the entire population of the infected is asymptomatic. There are 210,000 dead. If you are asserting a 0.3% IFR, then you are saying that 70 million have already been infected. 90% asymptomatic – assuming NONE of the 7 million confirmed cases have been asymptomatic. You fucking idiots.

      1. Ah, so you taking the stance that the rates published by the cdc are bunk?

      2. That’s if you accept the 200,000 number. The CDC has said there’s only 10,000 COVID only deaths.

        1. CDC took out the guy that got shot, and the motorcycle wreck guy.

          1. How about the one that fell down the stairs? Or the one with the epileptic seizures who tested negative and whose family tested negative?

        2. You are outright spreading propaganda now. You are lying.

        3. Excess Death numbers track well with the reported COVID deaths. We can be pretty certain COVID has been the cause of some 200,000 or more deaths.

          The fact that COVID alone killed 10,000 people is interesting, but that doesn’t change the fact that COVID was the proximate cause of another 200,000 or so people.

          1. Well yeah when you shove covid patients into nursing homes you’re gonna have a bad time. Italy showed us that in February.

            Lockdowns are killing people, and those deaths we can actually prevent and not just delay.

            1. While I agree that Lockdowns are killing people. It is pretty clear that the vast, vast majority of excess deaths were COVID caused. This is because the vast, vast proportion of excess deaths happened at the beginning of the pandemic when Typhoid Cuomo was busy infecting his city.

              My point is that saying things like “Only 10,000 people were killed by COVID” just makes you look like a crank. COVID has killed a lot of people- the majority of people having some sort of risk that was aggravated by the disease. You can still point out that COVID didn’t warrant this reaction, while accepting that the death counts are pretty close to correct.

              1. Yeah. There are plenty of ways to argue with the lockdowns and masks and whatnot without sounding crazy and conspiratorial. YOu can make a pretty good case with just the official numbers.

                The effects of the virus will be gone before too long. The effects of the lockdowns will be haunting us for years.

              2. Thank you.

          2. “Excess deaths.” So you’re going to go by a calculation based on projected deaths that assumes every other cause of death stayed the same?

          3. a lot of the excess deaths are from the lockdowns

      3. How is that a magical belief? We don’t know how many people have asymptomatic infections. But 90% doesn’t seem unbelievable. And there are probably a good number of people who had mild symptoms and didn’t get tested because it was just a cold to them. We are pretty much constantly exposed to coronaviruses and only occasionally get sick. I haven’t gotten sick for years, but I’m sure I’ve had various coronaviruses and influenzas in my body over that time.

        There is a lot unknown about this virus. No one knows exactly what the deal is. Seems to me that the real debate is mostly whether we should be hyper-precautionary and behave as if the worst case theories are true or whether we should assume that this will behave like all the other respiratory viruses we have dealt with and run its course and then stop being a big deal.

        1. “There is a lot unknown about this virus.”

          Zeb has humility! HooRay for Zeb!

          I, too, don’t know everything about everything! My sincere wishes are that Government Almighty… AND the commentors here… AND everyone in general… Would just treasure humility a wee tad (or more) more! Humility is an UTTERLY UNSPEAKABLY precious thing, but treasuring it just a TINY bit more, would buy us all, SOOO much more!

        2. 90% asymptomatic seems very believable considering the precedent set by polio, HPV, and H. pylori.

    2. When everyone around you seems insane, you just might be the insane one. And an asshole to boot.

  16. This isn’t May anymore, there are testing centers all over the country and people could get tested daily if they wanted, but most choose not to

    1. it doesn’t matter, the only purpose of the article is to bash Trump.

      1. An Orangemanbad a day will take the election away.

        1. Orange Man bad?!? He BAD, all right! He SOOO BAD, He be GOOD! He be GREAT! He Make America Great Again!

          We KNOW He can Make America Great Again, because, as a bad-ass businessman, He Made Himself and His Family Great Again! He Pussy Grabber in Chief!

          See The Atlantic article by using the below search-string in quotes:
          “The Many Scandals of Donald Trump: A Cheat Sheet” or this one…

          https://reason.com/2019/09/02/republicans-choose-trumpism-over-property-rights-and-the-rule-of-law/

          He pussy-grab His creditors in 7 bankruptcies, His illegal sub-human workers ripped off of pay on His building projects, and His “students” in His fake Get-Rich-like-Me realty schools, and so on. So, He has a GREAT record of ripping others off! So SURELY He can rip off other nations, other ethnic groups, etc., in trade wars and border wars, for the benefit of ALL of us!!!

          All Hail to THE Pussy Grabber in Chief!!!

          Most of all, HAIL the Chief, for having revoked karma! What comes around, will no longer go around!!! The Donald has figured out that all of the un-Americans are SOOO stupid, that we can pussy-grab them all day, every day, and they will NEVER think of pussy-grabbing us right back!

          Orange Man Bad-Ass Pussy-Grabber all right!

          We CAN grab all the pussy, all the time, and NONE will be smart enough to EVER grab our pussies right back!

          These voters simply cannot or will not recognize the central illusion of politics… You can pussy-grab all of the people some of the time, and you can pussy-grab some of the people all of the time, but you cannot pussy-grab all of the people all of the time! Sooner or later, karma catches up, and the others will pussy-grab you right back!

          1. Fuck off, Sqrlsy.

          2. Hey Sqrlsy,
            Orangemanbad, Sqrlsy.

            Lol. Fucking retard.

  17. At this point, virtually everything about masks or testing or anything else we purport to know or want to know is essentially useless in the US. We don’t do public health and we pretty much have proven that repeatedly this year. It’s not going to change – and without it, we are gonna continue to suck at dealing with what is obviously a novel contagious disease. Without the followup of either one of those actions, everything is going to be seen as some magic bullet – not one in a series of steps that actually reduces IFR and (possibly worse) non-fatal-in-short-term effects.

    Tell me when the US begins to understand that a major obvious ‘co-morbidity’ is NOT a permanent medical condition but is actually changeable. And that the timeline for reducing infection is actually a timeline for reducing that comorbidity in the population – not merely protecting hospital capital investment. THEN I will believe that Americans understand public health.

    Until then the only interesting info at this point re the virus is the stuff that might affect medical treatment. Whether its T-cell response or potential bradykinin/ACE inhibitor treatments. Course none of that knowledge is even possible among those who have already turned the virus into yet more DeRp bullshit.

    1. As an aside Ron – I’d really appreciate your response to
      A Supercomputer Genetically Analyzed the Coronavirus – A closer look at the Bradykinin Hypothesis

      Most of the studies on this virus come from overseas – where public health exists. So it is really impossible to figure out what applies here and what is simply irrelevant. This study OTOH seems to be looking at the genetics of the virus and may be relevant here.

      1. Most of the studies on this virus come from overseas – where public health exists. So it is really impossible to figure out what applies here and what is simply irrelevant. This study OTOH seems to be looking at the genetics of the virus and may be relevant here.

        The study was done at Oak Ridge in a country that “doesn’t do public health” you are your own DeRp. I don’t like Ron as much as others and even I think it would be beneath him to address your request to watch you try and suck your own dick.

    2. We don’t do public health and we pretty much have proven that repeatedly this year.

      Are you effing kidding? The US has one of the most advanced and best financed public health infrastructure in the world.

      And that the timeline for reducing infection is actually a timeline for reducing that comorbidity in the population

      The comorbidities in the US have two primary causes: lifestyle choices (obesity, drugs, smoking) and immigration. Progressive policies are largely responsible for how widespread they are.

      1. The US has one of the most advanced and best financed public health infrastructure in the world.

        Yes I’m sure we chant USA USA USA better than anyone. I don’t know why our public health system has been such an utter failure. Some clearly has to do with hurdles to access. Some with corruption and cronyism that take priority in decision making throughout the medical system (public and private). Regardless – it has proven a colossal failure. The world had the best ‘test’ of true pandemic preparedness this year – which had been followed by the usual ‘mock test’ of same last year.

        That ‘mock test’ – the 2019 Global Health Security Index – ‘proved’ that the 10 most prepared countries for a pandemic were, in order – US, UK, Netherlands, Australia, Canada, Thailand, Sweden, Denmark, South Korea, Finland. The top 2 were clearly utter crap – total and utter crap – in dealing with an actual pandemic. Not truly in the top 10 or even probably the top 50 and only really above the Third World. But hey – at least they got good scores on an irrelevant test.

        The comorbidities in the US have two primary causes: lifestyle choices (obesity, drugs, smoking) and immigration. Progressive policies are largely responsible for how widespread they are.

        DeRpty DeRpty DeRpty DeRp. WTF. The ENTIRE fucking point of stating the obvious about ‘lifestyle choice’ is that – it is a CHOICE and can thus be CHANGED. And when the effective fatality of those diseases changes because of a novel contagious disease – then you are in the realm of public health. Not your stupid repetition of political shit.

        1. “Yes I’m sure we chant USA USA USA better than anyone. I don’t know why our public health system has been such an utter failure.”

          Compared to who? The UK? Sweden? Spain? Italy? All countries with “Public Health” that have had death rates roughly at the same level as ours or worse.

          “And when the effective fatality of those diseases changes because of a novel contagious disease – then you are in the realm of public health. Not your stupid repetition of political shit.”

          No yours is the horseshit. We don’t have (yet) a nanny government that fully prevents us from doing unhealthy things, and you think that is a bad thing. That says more about you and your totalitarian mind than about the US.

          1. We don’t have (yet) a nanny government that fully prevents us from doing unhealthy things, and you think that is a bad thing.

            I imagine that scarecrow in your head is a very frightening fellow. Let me repeat what you yourself quoted – And when the effective fatality of those diseases changes because of a novel contagious disease – then you are in the realm of public health. Not your stupid repetition of political shit.

            Read that again. This time for actual comprehension. Which is not quite the same as reading as a substitute for a patellar reflex (assuming your patellar tendon is located in your brain rather your knee).

            1. This time for actual comprehension.

              We understand what you are saying just fine: it is bullshit. You have no idea how effective public health works. You have no idea how public health works in other countries. You have no idea what’s going on beyond the borders of the US.

              1. Public health in this case is not all that related to the healthcare system.

                Places with really, really effective responses were able to isolate their population and ferret out all exposed people.

                We started down that path in Florida and Washington State. Florida was doing really well tracking and tracing… they had less than a thousand total cases and had tracked them all… then New York exploded and New Yorkers started travelling to Florida in mass numbers.

                So much for that. More people with Covid came from NY during that first big week than the entire state of florida had to begin with. And it was over. With no capacity to test and trace 20 million humans, and the inability to control the borders at the same time, there was no point in trying to lock things down like that.

                Meanwhile, New York decided that wearing masks on the subway was a bridge too far for the first couple of months. And they famously ordered nursing homes to accept patients with Covid back from the hospital. That’s kind of the opposite of public health.

                Neither of which is “healthcare”, which is what happens when you get sick.

        2. Yes I’m sure we chant USA USA USA better than anyone.

          As someone who has lived in half a dozen countries, I assure you the US is one of the most self-hating nations on the planet, thanks to the American left and progressives.

          The ENTIRE fucking point of stating the obvious about ‘lifestyle choice’ is that – it is a CHOICE and can thus be CHANGED.

          Yes, and as someone who grew up in countries where obesity and drug use are much lower, I can tell you how: we didn’t get obese and didn’t use drugs because we knew that if we did, our life would likely be miserable and short.

          In the US, those lifestyle choices have become routine and their costs are government subsidized under progressive health care policy.

        3. The ENTIRE fucking point of stating the obvious about ‘lifestyle choice’ is that – it is a CHOICE and can thus be CHANGED

          And making the conscious choice to prevent ready access to primary healthcare, addiction cessation, and fitness resources while increasing personal stressors is a great way to go about it.

  18. The people around Trump were probably the most intensively tested and checked for COVID among any population on the planet and he still caught the virus.

    The idea that more testing can be used to keep COVID from spreading is absurd, and Trump’s own case demonstrates that.

    1. No amount of testing can protect someone who doesn’t wear masks and doesn’t allow employees to wear them.

      1. No amount of testing can protect someone who doesn’t wear masks

        Regular masks don’t protect the wearer. At all. Stop repeating this dangerous b.s.

        and doesn’t allow employees to wear them.

        Where has Trump kept anybody from wearing a mask?

        You don’t know sh*t about COVID transmission and on top of that you are making stuff up.

  19. I am not sure that home testing is the way to go but we definitely need more and quicker testing. The President and First Lady had there test results back within 24 hours. That quick turn around could make a real difference for tracking infections and assuring public safety. That in turn could make it easier for businesses to operate. Imagine what it is like for a business to have a suspect employee but you cannot be sure for 3 to 5 days and the only safe thing to do during that period is close.

    1. Who cares about tests. Dont give Lefties any more power with this hoax.

      Georgia has been open this entire time since March and we have 7,000 deaths while infected. We have had less overall deaths in 2020 than 2019.

      650,000 Americans die from heart disease every year.

      1. In ’18 and ’19 2.8 million Americans died. We’re on track for the same number this year.

        1. Here’s hoping that Trump will be one of those 2.8 million deaths this year.

          1. You’re also hoping that Trump loses the election. And you’re hoping your daddy will give you a pink unicorn for Xmas. All of those hopes are about equally likely to be realized.

        2. Trump copied a page out of Wilson’s playbook. Wilson hid the virus, sent infected soldiers to Europe and blamed Spain. The media fell for it and called it the Spanish virus. Psychopathic presidents.

      2. When all is said and done, another 650,000 people or more could die of COVID this year. Because they played around too long, it’s going to be endemic. In future years, death levels might drop somewhat due to vaccines, but it will always kill more people than the flu. We might have to expand hospital capacity. And it could have been avoided. South Korea has 416 deaths and they never really shut down their economy. Their solution is not very libertarian (masks and extensive testing starting in January) but it is far less costly than what we are doing.

        1. Move to Korea.

    2. “more and quicker testing”

      Compared to what? We had a COVID scare in my house, and I was able to get tests the same day. Those rapid tests have a 50% false negative rate, which means I had to do the 36 hour test, and that took a day to get because I didn’t know I’d need it until 5pm.

      Tests are plentiful and fast already.

      1. Each community has different capacity for testing.

  20. Debate attendees were required to wear masks the whole time but the Trump clan took them off anyway and risked the lives of both candidates for the US presidency and their families.

    Imagine if it were Obama acting like the rules don’t apply to him.

    1. No need to imagine. We lived it.

        1. Prosecuting whistleblowers.

        2. Allowing his Secretary of State to maintain an unauthorized classified email server outside of siprnet (which, to be fair, that idiot Colin Powell advised her to do).

          1. Seriously?

            These are malignant people who’ve cheated their way to a false image of success and threw the country into unprecedented chaos through sheer incompetence, and you throw but her emails at me?

        3. ignoring the War Powers Act, repeatedly

        4. Take your pick of more than 20 9-0 Supreme Court Rulings against him.

        5. Brown suit

    2. Biden nor Wallace wore masks.

  21. Amazing how long it took to get this published.
    I drive by three open to the public, no cost, testing centers on my way to breakfast.
    You want a test, you can get a test. Get over it.

  22. Bailey is an idiot, but other than that the article was worthless. It’s a Trump bash piece, that finally mentions at the end that the “problem” lies with the FDA. GTFO.

  23. OH NO! The Pres has…. the sniffles. Nobody has ever caught a cold in the fall before… How completely disastrous!!!! Humankind is doooooooommmmmed!!!!!!

    1. lmao Bunker Boy just got sent to the hospital over his sniffles. What an incredible pussy

    2. Why is he going to Walter Reed then?

      1. Uh, because he doesn’t have to pull a number and stand in line like some Brit with “free” access to a waiting list?

    3. How many people get the sniffles just form the stale air of the airplanes they ride in and Trump is in a lot of flights

      1. Heard a speech on Tuesday by a pilot (40 years experience) who says air comes into the plane in the front and goes out the rear – it does not recirculate endlessly in the cabin.

    4. Comments that aged like milk:

      OH NO! The Pres has…. the sniffles. Nobody has ever caught a cold in the fall before… How completely disastrous!!!! Humankind is doooooooommmmmed!!!!!!

      He’s in the hospital, dawg.

      1. Yeah, shitbag, did you have a point other than you are full of shit?

  24. Sullum and the rest of the control freaks grasping at straws trying to maintain the lockdowns however possible in the face of rising resistance to the oppressive and ineffective nonsense.

    Fuck of slaver.

  25. The Food and Drug Administration needs to stop dawdling and prioritize the approval of these cheap and rapid tests

    Over what? What do you suggest they slow down to speed this up?

    Testing for such a widespread virus that further spreads so easily is crap. You couldn’t possibly have in mind a strict quarantining of all those who test positive for the virus RNA, could you? Because that would be nuts.

    1. What do you suggest they slow down to speed this up?

      He could be suggesting the pinnacle of libertarian solutions: more abject spending with less accountability and oversight.

  26. we don’t test for colds and flu so why test for something you are 99.9% to have no effects for, even less effects than a cold or flue.

    Hope that doesn’t come back to bite me but thats the chance I’m willing to take to live my life. my body my choice

    1. 3-4% die and it’s very contagious. That might not sound like much but it’s many times higher than the flu. It fills up hospitals too quickly during peak winter months, particularly in cold urban settings, which can put non-COVID patients at risk. You wouldn’t want to get in a bad car accident and be forced to take a long ambulance ride to a different community. Plus it’s depressing for dying COVID patients to be separated from loved ones and vice versa.

      1. 1440minutes
        October.2.2020 at 9:17 pm
        “3-4% die and it’s very contagious. That might not sound like much but it’s many times higher than the flu. It fills up hospitals too quickly during peak winter months, particularly in cold urban settings, which can put non-COVID patients at risk. You wouldn’t want to get in a bad car accident and be forced to take a long ambulance ride to a different community. Plus it’s depressing for dying COVID patients to be separated from loved ones and vice versa.”

        Bullshit and propaganda from a bullshitter.
        3-4% of all? What ages? What were the co-morbidities? When did it fill the hospitals?
        “You wouldn’t want to get in a bad car accident and be forced to take a long ambulance ride to a different community. Plus it’s depressing for dying COVID patients to be separated from loved ones and vice versa.”
        Aw, aren’t you just a bullshit artist dreaming up hypotheticals….
        Here’s reality, scum bag: A child of a friend in the midwest had to delay cancer surgery because assholes like you predicted a huge surge in hospital bed requirements that never happened.
        Can I send your regrets if the surgery isn’t successful after all those delays?
        You.
        Are.
        Full.
        Of.
        Shit.

          1. So you admit to being full of shit?

            1. I am not full of sh*t but I was not sufficiently nuanced, did not type enough caveats, and did forget that the 3-4% death figure was based on positive tests in early studies. I apologize. The higher the infection rate, the lower the death rate. At this point, however, there is no evidence to suggest that COVID is as harmless as the flu but there is a lot we do not know about it.

              Sorry about your friend. Hospitals definitely were overwhelmed in dense urban settings and even in some dense settings where the populace followed state and national leaders who eschewed masks and pre-existing were high; but not everywhere. Our small town county had the lowest death rates in our small state. We wear masks indoors–likely because we don’t hear a lot of anti-mask rhetoric at the local level. Our hospital was able to handle the cases. They devoted a floor to COVID cases and the rest of the patients were segregated. Obviously, the ER had mixed cases, but they kept the doors closed for suspected COVID cases. Maybe your friend’s hospital was not overwhelmed either.

              There is a way to weaken the arguments of those of us who worry about the first full winter with COVID-19. Fund significant antibody testing in peer-reviewed studies. Ideally fund multiple studies independently and combine it with COVID testing. If they consistently showed that large estimated numbers of us have antibodies, then we could show that death rates are far lower than we thought they were. With widespread infection and low death rates, certain hospitals still could be overwhelmed, but ongoing data might help to increase confidence and devote resources where they are really needed.

              1. Sorry, failed to proof.
                even in dense settings where… I meant even in less dense settings where…
                and pre-existing were high. I meant to delete that. I don’t know that is true in terms of hospitals being overwhelmed. Obviously it is true for death rates.

  27. So what is Mike Pence’s role in the QAnon thing?

    1. What is your role’ in acting like a human being?

      1. He hates humanity way to much to try and have any role.

  28. Apparently the testing is useless, since he still caught the virus.

    1. As I said above, the testing absolutely has a use. It will tell you exactly who should and shouldn’t be allowed into polling places. The problem is mail-in voting. Once the FDA releases the rapid Russian asset test, then they’ll know who’s mail in ballots should be tossed too.

  29. We would be surprised by the number of people infected who have passed on the virus but I don’t think it’s the majority of people

  30. What earthly purpose can testing serve? If you’re sick, get care. If you’re not sick, live your life. Sheesh!

    1. You can separate the asymptomatic positives who could infect others and open the economy. South Korea did that in January (plus mandatory masks). Only 416 people have died there and they never really shut down their economy.

      1. “Only 416 people have died there and they never really shut down their economy.”

        Up-thread, you made the claim of a 3-4% death rate of those infected. Either that claim is bullshit or this one is.
        As of two days ago, So Korea had ~24,000 cases.
        So which of your bullshit claims should we ignore, bullshitter?

      2. Exactly. You could do that in January. It’s too late now.

  31. I wonder if Trump will file for unemployment. If he does, he can use that first $600.00 check to pay his 2020 tax bill.

    1. I wonder if Haystack will ever recover from his raging TDS.
      I hope as/he doesn’t and further hope it proves fatal.

  32. Great podcast with an eminent doctor, that although he treats those in government and is is a consultant to government, parallels and extends this very libertarian argument against this administration’s failed state first and foremost pandemic response.

    “Virus Inside the Wire”

    “Who better to discuss these momentous developments than Dr. Jonathan Reiner—a cardiologist, professor of medicine and surgery at George Washington University, former physician to Vice President Dick Cheney, and a consultant to the White House Medical Unit during the Bush, Obama, and Trump years?”

    https://podcast.thedispatch.com/p/virus-inside-the-wire-2e4

    A must listen for the safety of you and yours and our nations perseverance through this pandemic.

    1. Why in the world would I listen to a heart surgeon’s advice on infectious diseases? Like getting freethrow advice from Ben Wallace.

    2. BigGiveNotBigGov
      October.2.2020 at 8:38 pm
      “Great podcast with an eminent doctor,..”

      Tedious shit with terminal TDS offers a review.
      Hey, you pathetic piece of shit! Stuff it up your ass so your head has some company!

  33. Friends travelled to the midwest, I brought them to the airport and ten days leter collected them to bring them the huor plus trip back home. We were “trapped” in the car together for a few hours, I had dinner with them at bome, them went home mhself. They’d been visiting Her partents. Next morning, they got a phone cal. Her Dad had tested positive. So they made arrangements to also gtet tested. HE was pos, SHE was neg. He had slight sniffles, and dampened sense of taste/smell for two days. Work would not allow him to come back till he’d got a neg test. Fine. They kept [aing him. Their mone, oh well. I never even thiought I should get tested. Glad I did not. He never develoed any real symtoms, nor did his Wife or two small kids. Her Dad had sniffles and a hacking cough for a couple days. He is seriously overweight. I was a bit concerned…
    I never got tested, never got sick, or did any of his immediate famil or anyone else ih the LARGE housewhold where theyhad stayed ten days.

    I’ve read stats on testing.. for one thing, they can NONT test speicifically for the NEW coronavirus, the WUhan Flu. ANY coroonavirus will return a positive test. Further, lots of nothing cases return a positive result. SO he enjoyed his extended time off with pay, went back ten days later for a retest, the clinic refused.. no point. You’ve not had symtoms, yo are not contagious at this point since you do NOT have symptoms, they wrote out a paper for his work, they let him come back.

    What a great big fat NothingBurger.
    Take your supplements, and WHEN (not if) the WuhuFlu does come round and infects you, your body’s natural imune system will tell it to go take a hike. NOT ONE government agency have I EVER seen provide any advice for a supplement protocol to strangthen your own imminuty to repel it when it DOES come. NO WAY will be ever make that strain of virus extinct. Can’t happen. We,, not realy.. one of the earlier cornoavirus pandemics what was supposed to kill us all around nne years ago has not had one case idietnfied for tfour years now. It has gone completely away.

    1. “HE was pos, SHE was neg”

      Piece of shit? No egg girl? Sorry, I’m immature

  34. South Korea
    Outcome: Only 416 Covid deaths without ever really shutting down their economy
    Method: Mandatory masks and extensive testing beginning in January. Not a very libertarian method but way better than fifty 9/11’s and counting plus entire economic shutdown.

    1. The problem with the “not very libertarian” crackdowns is that they only work — if, indeed, they work — so long a society is willing to live under a crackdown indefinitely.

      South Korea is seeing a resurgence and it appears they may be losing control:

      https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/south-korea-reels-from-a-double-whammy-growing-untraceable-covid-19-cases-as-well-as

      Give it time.

      The lockdowns and crackdowns are only delaying the inevitable.

    2. :South Korea
      Outcome: Only 416 Covid deaths without ever really shutting down their economy
      Method: Mandatory masks and extensive testing beginning in January. Not a very libertarian method but way better than fifty 9/11’s and counting plus entire economic shutdown.”

      Bullshit.

  35. That would require bureaucrats, appointees, and the administration to actually do something. Not any government’s strong suit, but especially not this one’s

    1. For which we can be thankful.

      1. The “authoritarian tyrannical dictator” that is being heavily criticized for failing to live up to the name. The Left is amazing.

        1. Yeah, he should have, like Cuomo, shoved the elderly back into the places which had infected folks!
          Why didn’t he DO SOMETHING like Cuomo did?!

  36. The way he said “who has been working so hard without a break”, its just caught me off-guard. lolx. Like Biden is sitting somewhere on beach and thinking, OOh! You working? i supposed elections are vaccations.

    https://www.gwinnettdivorce.com/

  37. C’mon man lol. Seriously though, this is some low hanging fruit. I love what Reason does and stands for, but I think the need to prove libertarian cred clouds the judgment of the authors. Unfortunately we’re living in strange times where it’s no longer a battle of ideology (which is great), but a battle between the insane left (and their programmed sheep) and everyone else. Please promote the freedom to express individuality, which, for better or worse, means supporting Trump, so we can get back to debating real issues without being overwhelmed by the tyranny of the left. Cheers y’all.

    1. How about rejecting the tyranny of the left and the right and sending a message that we are fed up with both of them.

      I am supporting Jo Jorgensen for president.

  38. Demanding government regulate equal medical benefits For everyone is the new libertarian ideology because orange man bad.

  39. So I have no symptoms, due to fascist executive orders go nowhere there are people, and belong to every risk group there is, and can’t wear a “cloth face covering” without an O2 drop within 15 minutes.
    And you think it is a GOOD idea to go where I know there is a gathering of people who think they have the Communist Chinese virus?
    Testing sites are full of sick people, people who think they are sick, and health care workers who spend the entire day around sick people.
    May, just maybe I don’t have the plague because I stay away from those places?

  40. Wait, what?

    I’m not going to wade through everything that you guys said in response first, but what in the world are we talking about?

    Here in Florida you just make an appointment and drive up and get tested. Sure, you can go to loads of pharmacies too… but the easiest way to get tested is to go to the state center. You have your results later the same day via text message. No cost.

    So what is happening where you live? Don’t governors in blue states have testing programs in place? We have been testing since the beginning, but drive up testing centers took a while to get deployed. Still, you could get tested any time at any point in the last few months.

    What in the world are we talking about “same access?” Are we operating on 6 month old data? Testing kits have not been in short supply for months and months. Why are we talking about access?

    All college athletes in the ACC, SEC and Big 12 are getting tested a couple of times a week. So are their coaches.

    I don’t see this lack of test access. Is it different in the northeast?

  41. BTW, If you think there is any chance at all that every school kid in america is getting a swab shoved into their sinuses every single day as a condition of attending school, you are high as three kites.

    It isn’t the worst test of all time, but it is rather unpleasant. And it does take a bit of time to run. For an average elementary school of somewhere close to a thousand people, you’d need fifty or 100 people administering tests just to get into the building in a reasonable amount of time.

    That’s just plain stupid. You gotta think this stuff through a little better than that.

    Even a perfunctory temperature test at the door is an impediment.. but at least it is achievable. Even if they had a rapid spit based test that only took 60 seconds to administer and properly catalog… that’s still 1,000 minutes of screening at the beginning of school. With 10 screening teams, that’s still 100 minutes. An hour and a half before school can even start, just running tests at a fantastical rate of 1 per minute.

    Let’s pretend that you can do it with 2 people per team. That’s 30 hours of nurse time you have to pay for, just for the screening. Every day. Plus the time it takes to file and transport the tests, log the results, communicate and follow up.

    At every school. Everywhere. That’s 90,000 elementary schools. Where are you thinking you are going to find all of those health care workers? And that’s just elementary schools. You still have high school and middle school and colleges…. all filled with people who are at no risk from Covid-19.

    And I suppose we are going to do this at every workplace too? And at the Kroger?

    We already have this sort of regime in place at nursing homes and rehab facilities. You know, where the risk is.

    If “experts” really are recommending this as the answer.. well, you need to find some better experts. Because that don’t make no danged sense at all.

    That’s not even remotely realistic.

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