Are You Ready for a Second Round of Pandemic Lockdowns?

Politicians are poised to tighten the screws, even though voluntary action offers more promise.


This week, Britain's government imposed new pandemic restrictions, threatening a second full-scale lockdown if people don't comply. Israel is already in the midst of renewed strictures on schools, "non-essential" businesses, and other gatherings. Some American officials, too, favor reviving harsh stay-at-home orders in an effort to slow the spread of COVID-19.

Standing in their way is public fatigue with mandated disruptions to life. That rebellious spirit may simultaneously give governments the excuses they seek to impose restrictions while guaranteeing that lockdowns will be vastly less effective than voluntary measures.

In the U.K., where the rules now ban meetings of more than six people from different households, Prime Minister Boris Johnson warned: "If people don't follow the rules we have set out, then we must reserve the right to go further."

That he'll likely have all the excuse he could want "to go further" is clear from Johnson's own finger-wagging as well as from expert commentary.

"People won't have the same level of buy-in because of the sense of unfairness that has been built up," behavioral psychologist Nilu Ahmed told the U.K.'s Metro. "There's only so much the police can do and it relies on trust and people singing from the same hymn sheet. There was a very definite shift when people in authority were seen as not following the rules."

That echoes advice the British government received directly from its own Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE). Renewed restrictions are likely to be met by "silent compliance, critical compliance or visible resistance," the group cautioned in June. "There has been an increase in resistance to social distancing measures in recent weeks," SAGE added, with COVID concerns competing with other priorities for people's attention.

Israel's government received similar warnings when it imposed a new lockdown last week. "A lockdown will kill those businesses who have only just recovered," insisted opposition leader Yair Lapid. "I'm against civil disobedience but the public won't obey the rules. For five months the government has driven them crazy."

Sure enough, Israeli police promptly issued nearly 7,000 citations for violations of the lockdown. Still, that was mild compared to the sometimes violent confrontations that came with earlier enforcement efforts.

So far, most jurisdictions in the United States have resisted urgings to further limit gatherings and close businesses as part of the effort to slow coronavirus spread. Many places—including California and Texas—have been loosening rules rather than tightening them.

But that trend is bucked elsewhere. Utah imposed new restrictions in Provo and Orem, two cities with rising caseloads. Almost simultaneously, Wisconsin's governor declared a new health emergency and ordered state residents to wear masks in public.

Some officials openly support renewed restrictions, despite an obvious lack of public patience for them.

"We're looking at 40,000 new cases per day. That's unacceptable," Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, commented this week.

Fauci objected earlier this month to loosened controls on indoor activities and warned that life won't return to normal until "towards the end of 2021."

Likewise, Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden wants a national mask mandate. "The question is whether I have the legal authority or not," he concedes. "I think I do. If I did, I would" issue an order.

Even before reported cases of COVID-19 ticked up recently (deaths attributed to the disease remain flat), Neel Kashkari, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis, joined with Michael T. Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, to demand a lockdown for the whole country.

"We should mandate sheltering in place for everyone but the truly essential workers. By that, we mean people must stay at home and leave only for essential reasons: food shopping and visits to doctors and pharmacies while wearing masks and washing hands frequently," they argue.

That doesn't mean that Americans are doomed to a repeat of the wave of restrictions that plagued our lives in March and April, let alone something worse imposed from coast-to-coast. Many European countries are fighting a second wave of COVID-19 with measures that (so far) don't approach the nearly full suspension of life they suffered in the spring.

"European governments and citizens want to avoid returning to the full-blown lockdowns of early 2020, including widespread business closures and stay-at-home orders, which broke the pandemic's first wave but also froze European economies," the Wall Street Journal notes.

The U.S. suffered similar economic injuries from policies intended to limit the spread of infection, from which we'll be recovering for years to come. Those policies were met with mass protests and growing defiance. The prospect of more such pain will evoke reactions that are bound to dwarf earlier resistance.

But there's an alternative that doesn't just let the pandemic run wild. Officialdom could do something that doesn't come naturally: give people information and let them make their own decisions.

In a study published September 22, researchers from Louisiana State University (LSU) analyzed cellphone data to study the how and why of pandemic social distancing. What they found has important implications for health policy going forward.

"Social distancing in the U.S. during the Covid-19 pandemic was initially voluntary rather than a response to governmental jurisdictional restrictions," LSU reports of the study's findings. "The analysis suggests that stay-at-home behavior increased by over nine times from late January through late March, and then decreased by about 50% through mid-June. Findings indicate that demographic factors drove these changes to a substantially greater degree, signifying the importance of individual behavior in social distancing (either due to voluntary distancing or to differential compliance with mandated distancing)."

"An important implication of these outcomes is that encouraging voluntary distancing could be an effective and lower-cost alternative to governmental restrictions. Such encouragement could boost acceptance of restrictions and thus increased compliance with distancing rules, resulting in an even greater degree of distancing," LSU adds.

Imagine that. People can take steps on their own to reduce health risks in the absence of compulsion and can do so without drama and conflict. Since we're perfectly capable of protecting ourselves and our neighbors from infection, it's time for government officials to back off their lockdown fantasies.

NEXT: Trump's Vaccine Cheerleading Is Undermining Public Trust in the Vaccines

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  1. “”We’re looking at 40,000 new cases per day. That’s unacceptable,””


    1. Why?

      Because people might figure out that, unless you already have one foot in the grave, the disease is mostly harmless.

      Then they will get angry.

      1. From Table 1.

        Current best estimates (as of 9/10/20) of COVID IFR by age group

        0-19 years: 0.00003
        20-49 years: 0.0002
        50-69 years: 0.005
        70+ years: 0.054

        The only important caveat, in the notes, is that the 70+ number does not apply to the 80+ population, ie. it’s probably worse.

        So yes, Cuomo did indeed kill grandma.

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          2. If you look at the CDC graph of deaths by all causes per week in the United States, we stopped having what they call ‘excess deaths’ the first week of September:


            Remember that when they try to scare you about how many people are dying. The United States averages around a quarter million people dying every month of every year.

            1. And, if you look at the previous couple of years on the graph, we were well below the expected total just about every week. So there was a lot of dry tinder, so to speak.

              Also, excess deaths from all causes aren’t just covid, it’s also people avoiding or delaying treatment or diagnoses for other ailments due to fear of covid, various reactions to the ‘pandemic’ such as stay-at-home orders, etc.

              1. Riots, other violent crimes…

                1. Ahem…. “Peaceful protesting”!!

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      3. The best way to protect Americans is to lock down democrats, forever.

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    3. If you have lots of cases and very few, if any, deaths or hospitalizations, that’s great. That means it’s over and we can get on with our lives.

      1. The rubes figured it out months ago. The “Smart” Set That Is In Control resents that and uses their power to impose their personal political biases to punish the taxpaying citizens rather than following the hard scientific data. They happily impose lockdowns rather than show genuine concern about the general welfare of the citizenry. The Inside Crowd continues to do as they please in the meantime.
        One only has to watch a press conference with Gavin Newsom gleefully announcing his latest draconian lockdown measures.

        1. One of the creepiest things I’ve seen all year was Newsom laying out the early lockdowns and saying “we have to help people help themselves”.

          With a smile.

          1. What’s Newsome gonna do? Sic the cops on us?

            Step aside government or get pushed aside.

            We’re gonna take our chances with the big bad flu.

    4. Maybe he thinks we can do more to get to herd immunity faster. Can we set a goal of 60,000 new cases a day? Would that be acceptable? If you want more than that, just let us know “that’s unacceptable” and we can try for more.

      1. Do you realize what herd immunity is?

        What percentage of a community needs to be immune in order to achieve herd immunity? It varies from disease to disease. The more contagious a disease is, the greater the proportion of the population that needs to be immune to the disease to stop its spread. For example, the measles is a highly contagious illness. It’s estimated that 94% of the population must be immune to interrupt the chain of transmission.

        Even if infection with the COVID-19 virus creates long-lasting immunity, a large number of people would have to become infected to reach the herd immunity threshold. Experts estimate that in the U.S., 70% of the population — more than 200 million people — would have to recover from COVID-19 to halt the epidemic. If many people become sick with COVID-19 at once, the health care system could quickly become overwhelmed. This amount of infection could also lead to serious complications and millions of deaths, especially among older people and those who have chronic conditions.

        So 70% would need to get infected assuming it doesn’t mutate. at 1% death rate we can look forward to losing 15 million americans. How libertarian of you.

        1. Yes, in America herd immunity has been here already. That’s why no one you know has died. It’s always a friend of a friend and even then they had it coming anyway.

          1. Or a coworker’s great-aunt who was 87 and about to lose her other leg to the diabetes.

        2. Your math is terrible.

          330 million (US population) x .7 (your proposed infection rate) x .01 (your very inflated fatality rate) = 2.31 million. Your number is off by 6.5x.

          If you assume a fatality rate of 0.1%, which is low for anyone over 70 but orders of magnitude too high for anyone younger, you get 330,000 deaths from 100% infection rate.

    5. Indeed. If there is no increase in hospitalization and death along with the new “cases”, then the cases are likely an artifact of testing.
      The pandemic is over and has been for some time.

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  2. I’m ready to have my governor say hello to my little friend.

    1. Public indecency like that will get you locked up.

      1. Not if he’s wearing a mask

        1. Who’s wearing the mask? Yes, Way, Ted, or his “little friend”? Or Both?

        2. Put a helmet on that soldier! He’s going into battle! (apologies to Sam Kinison)

  3. “Politicians are poised to tighten the screws, even though because voluntary action offers more promise.”

  4. it’s time for government officials to back off their lockdown fantasies

    They’re fapping to these fantasies non-stop so this is unlikely.

    1. Ewwwwww!!!! (Teenage girl)

  5. Sure, easy for them to say. I say we deem Faucci, Boris Johnson, Whitmer, Newsome and everyone at or connected to The Fed non-essential. Watch how fast they change their tune.

    1. Sorry, Credentialed Experts and Our Betters are immune to lockdown hardship. Some animals are more equal than others.

      1. This is the typical response of the anti-intellectual right wingnuts to sound, proven science. Go thump some Bibles, dances with some snakes, and speak gibberish in your trailer park church.

        1. That’s what I don’t get. What has been proven, exactly? Feel free to reply with your same level of self-righteous contempt for my ideological bent all you want – just explain what science has proven (even beyond reasonable doubt), that would warrant the continued measures we’re facing.

          I suppose one might be that this virus is, to some degree, more deadly than the typical flu? Not sure that’s the case, but let’s assume the worst. Let’s say this virus winds up killing twice as many as the worst flu season we’ve ever had and let’s say that difference is 100k additional deaths. What “intellectual” defense is there for severely damaging the lives of hundreds of millions of people (young and old) in order to POSSIBLY save the remaining 1-10 years of 99k people? From a NATURAL cause, no less!

          See, when you’re not blinded by unjustified hubris, you tend not to miss obvious stuff. Like the fact that viruses are a natural fact of life. Just as much as…what’s that other fact…you know, the thing. Oh, right, death! Death is natural you smug, fucking loser. So while you’re looking down your nose, out of a very misplaced sense of importance and virtue, realize that some of us don’t need “experts” to make a very easy risk assessment.

          “sound, proven science” lol God, you’re pathetic.

          1. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but the current (phony) death rate of 200k represents .0006 percent of the US population of 328,000,000. The hysterical early estimates of 2,000,000 would be .006 percent of the population. The vast majority of Americans don’t know anybody who has died from this disease and don’t know anybody who knows anybody who has died from this disease. For this inconsequential disease government has destroyed the livelihoods of millions.

            1. Kevin Bacon may know someone that has died from the disease.

            2. I’ll correct you – you forgot the 50 million immigrants. Or is it 100 million? Idk but they’re all here in SoCal.

          2. That’s a (bad) parody account; ignore.

        2. There’s no such thing as proven science in the way you use the term. There’s valid science, but proven science, in the sense that it is infallible and can’t be questioned, doesn’t exist. Science is a process for reaching the best possible approximation of objective truth.

          It was valid science when the CDC, WHO, US Surgeon General, and Fauci told us to stop wearing masks because they do not work against respiratory viruses and can be dangerous for laypeople. That was based on the entire history of human learning on the topic of respiratory viruses up to that point in time. The topic had been the subject of many, many studies over the years, and the full weight of the decades of research came down on the side of them not having any kind of positive effect.

          It was not valid science when these same individuals or organizations reversed themselves and said that suddenly now masks work. That was pure politics, and it still is.

          When there is no remarkable disease threat, people mostly ignore the likes of Fauci, the CDC, etc., and just give them their annual allotment each year in the budget. Absent any external pressures, we can sometimes get truthful advice from them, like the mask advice (not to wear them) in March.

          When the people that fund the CDC come calling, demanding a list of things to do to make the chicken littles be a little bit less terrified (and it doesn’t hurt if it gives the petty tyrants a bit of a thrill in the process), you give it to them– science and reality be damned. We’ve seen exactly that come to be. That was the genesis of the mask cultism that useful idiots dutifully pass off as “the word of Science,” as if Science is some deity that gives his infallible word to certain prophets and priests, like Fauci and Cuomo, respectively. The word of Science is not to be questioned, you see! It is the perfect and proven word of Science, and all who question it will be chastized as the heretics they are.

          Science isn’t about belief or taking things on faith. It’s about objective reality, and the objective reality about masks is that when they are used by members of the public, they do not slow the spread of respiratory viruses. This was the well-supported, scientifically validated point of view of the medical community less than a year ago in March, and it still is. Science is not a fast process… it’s not like a deity coming to a prophet in a dream and laying down the Holy Word or some such thing, changing everything overnight. Actual science takes a while, on the frame of years, and established theory is not overturned in the timeframe they claim it has been. They went from “stop wearing masks! They do not work and can harm you!” to “wear masks! They work!” in a matter of about a month. That’s not science.

          As Carl Sagan said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and the claim that the CDC, WHO, and all the rest of the medical establishment were wrong about masks is an extraordinary claim, even if it is claimed by those who previously made the opposite claim. The research that would turn that theory on its ear won’t come from research performed on a pandemic during that pandemic, and certainly not in a few months. It takes a considerable amount of time for studies to be published, criticized, defended, redone, rewritten, re-criticized, repeated by other researchers, and often retracted when these tests cannot be met. Simply publishing a study means nothing other than that the process has started, but it’s not valid until it has undergone all of this. A study that contradicts existing theory will take more proof and more research to itself become established theory than research that fits the existing paradigm.

          The CDC, WHO, and Fauci started off this whole plandemic with a whopper of their own… the assertion that this novel virus that we know nothing about definitely does not spread by aerosol (aka airborne transmission). We know nothing about it, but we’re damned sure that it is different than all the other respiratory viruses we know, including other coronaviruses. That right there is quite an extraordinary claim, but where’s the extraordinary proof? There was none, and now that the data have begun to accumulate, we see that this virus is just a garden variety respiratory coronavirus, and it transmits by aerosol just like all the others. This bit of info, it turns out, is relatively easy to figure out, based on all of the research humans have done with respiratory viruses in the past. In hospital rooms with confirmed COVID patients, if the main means of transmission was droplet-borne, there would be a high concentration of the virus in a cone from the patient’s position in bed forward, matching the various angles that he is able to expel droplets. There will be little to no presence of the virus on any surface in the room outside of that cone, since that would indicate that the virions are being lofted by air currents and are depositing all over like dust (in other words, an aerosol).

          The research on this topic has been very consistent. Every surface in the room gets contaminated with the virus, including areas behind the patient, out of the path of coughed/sneezed/talked/breathed out respiratory droplets. The concentration in the area directly in front of the patient is not that much greater than in any other area of the room. This is the same effect seen in other respiratory viruses like the flu that are known to be airborne.

          This bit is really important.

          The thing about airborne viruses is that your silly little cloth mask or polypropylene three-layer ear-loop “surgical” mask is completely useless in stopping them from ingress or egress. They like to talk about how masks stop droplets, but the droplet thing is a red herring. The mask stops the droplet, the droplet evaporates, the virus is now free to catch a ride on the next exhalation right through the mask. It will, in fact, do just that. If anything, masks are efficient converters of droplets (which may have otherwise hit the floor if the person had not been wearing the mask) to airborne particles, which makes the virus more likely to spread, not less.

          An airborne virus can stay aloft for hours, and can be carried by HVAC systems to other rooms or even floors. The six foot rule is pointless, and masks that are not certified N95 or better respirators (properly fitted and used) are nothing more than a really inconvenient good luck charm.

          The CDC, WHO, and others have just put their fingers in their ears and pretended they can’t hear any of it, even as actual medical scientists have been begging them to accept this “new” information (which is really old information… it’s how respiratory viruses work. This is a known factor). The New York Post wrote that the reason for this was that the moment it became official that this virus is airborne, the mere utterance of that word would cause medical staff across the world (who understand the implications) to stop coming to work. There are not enough N95s to go around, so they’re given medical-grade versions of the phony baloney “surgical” masks we all have access to). Remember all of those “superheroes wear scrubs” photos of medical staff? They weren’t in N95s, were they?

          If they ever find out the CDC has been lying to keep them at work, we will have a new crisis of insufficient medical people to keep the machine working. Doctors get the best gear, but it takes a lot more people than that to keep a hospital going.

          It has been the CDC and Fauci that have been denying actual science all along, and they’ve counted on the scientific illiteracy of most people to make it happen. If you know how any of this works, if you go read the study abstracts for the research that supposedly showed that masks work, you’d realize it’s all a sham really quick. It’s actually pretty obvious when you start looking for yourself and stop letting others chew your food for you, if you have the science background to be able to understand the nomenclature and methodology, at least.

          So yeah, we’re over here denying “Science,” the imaginary deity who can be made to say whatever the person working the puppet says, but that’s not at all the same as actual science.

          That’s just the mask issue. The lockdown thing is even simpler. Thinking that the reduced rate of new cases will stay that way once you release the restrictions is like expecting a spring you’ve compressed to remain that way after you take your hand off of it. Once the virus is extant, it is going to do as it does, and all you can do is delay some of the effects. That’s why the goal was always (in the beginning) to flatten the curve, not to save lives or keep people from being sick. Those goals were never part of the epidemiology contingency plan, and that’s because they’re fantasies, not reality. Delaying deaths by the same amount you delay herd immunity doesn’t save any lives… it only postpones some of the deaths. This is explicitly explained in the definition of “flattening the curve.” The area under the curve remains the same. If you don’t know what that means, go find out before you start yammering about saving lives or making the pandemic go away by employing strategies specifically designed to slow it down and drag it out for a longer time (that’s flattening the curve).

          I’m very much pro-science. I’m just anti “science” (pseudoscience) and anti-“Science” (superstition masquerading as science). Most people who claim to be pro-science couldn’t tell a periodic table from a kitchen table or telophase from a telephone. I don’t expect everyone to have the zeal for actual science that I do, but if not, don’t go around accusing people who know way more than you do about it of being against it.

          1. Good post…

          2. “The lockdown thing is even simpler. Thinking that the reduced rate of new cases will stay that way once you release the restrictions is like expecting a spring you’ve compressed to remain that way after you take your hand off of it.”

            Great analogy. I’ve said the same thing, but never articulated it this clearly. I am 100% with you on the idea that “Science” is a monolith that speaks. I read Carl Sagan’s “The Demon-Haunted World” just after the lockdowns began, and I have been either outraged or hopeless ever since. I haven’t seen all the studies, but I’ve looked at enough to believe that the masks are not the magic bullet some pretend they are. Trying to breathe and talk through them is awful. A large percentage of communication is non-verbal, so we lose our ability to see and understand each other.

            The measures against the virus have done far more damage than the virus itself. And you are spot on about the curve. We cannot eradicate a virus; we are not that powerful. We’re going to have to come out of our homes and take off our masks at some point.

            Appreciate your post.

            1. It’s a great way for democrats to justify more Marxism. Which is the whole point.

          3. Fuck your for droning on and on for days. Get to the point already. And dude, it pretty obvious you were cherry picking your “truth” that the cdc said.

            Fuck the cdc – they tell us whatever is best for them. And by “them” I mean whoever’s pocket their in. Like when they got caught trying to distribute Covid tests laced with Covid.

        3. Japan has had about 1,500 deaths out of a population of 125 million people without mandatory lock downs. How? Masks, avoid crowds ( specifically yelling crowds in doors ), confined spaces and social distancing.

          1. Japan was already famous for their isolation culture. The elderly tend to live alone and married couple often sleep in their own beds. Some hermits basically live inside a small room and won’t leave for months.

            Covid eventually found its way there since public transportation and apartments are common. But the country is an island and ethnically homogeneous so the reach of the virus is somewhat limited.

    2. Newsom is about as popular in California as a rolling blackout on a 100 degree day. He’s lucky he’s not up for election this year.

      1. I mean, who else are they going to vote for? California is a one-party state.

        1. Don’t challenge them like this, look at Portland and their mayoral race.

          1. It’s good for the rest of us that places like Portland and California exist.

      2. History will remember Newsome as the forward thinking genius that created the ELECTRIC CAR revolution. A brave new world wherein people plug their cars into electrical outlets that sometimes provide electrical current generated by wind farms and solar panels but mostly from burning hydrocarbons in nearby states. And other times no electrical current at all. You can run your AC sometimes and you can get to work sometimes but you can’t have both.

      3. Even if they got rid of Newsom, the CA voters would just replace him with someone who’s intellectually identical to him, just maybe in a darker skin-tone and/or with a different shaped genitalia.

        Most people in CA aren’t happy with the results the State’s policies are creating, but they have yet to connect the policies they love to support with the results they hate to endure.

  6. Only Karens want more lockdowns. Even Joe Biden had to back away from his national mask mandate being his first campaign plank. Everyone else realized the lockdowns were a sham when the mass protest super spreader event drew zero condemnation from the health care nannies and wannabe czars who were previously fretting about people going to the beach for fresh air and sunshine.

    1. Even Joe Biden had to back away from his national mask mandate being his first campaign plank.
      That’s only because he replaced it with a national ball gag mandate. While it is an example of authoritarianism, as the voice of Tony’s everywhere, I must approve of this measure as it’s kinky and makes my balls tingle.

  7. lies and the lying liars who don’t wear their masks after they throw out the first pitch.

    1. Or get their hair done.

      1. she had $2500 in ice cream in her freezers … people lost their livelihoods

        1. Also, those are $5000 freezers.

          1. Much more than that.

    2. Has Fraudci the Fame Whore been right about anything? Why is anyone still listening to him?

      1. Because orange man bad. Try to keep up.

  8. “Renewed restrictions are likely to be met by ‘silent compliance, critical compliance, or visible resistance,’ the group cautioned in June.”

    What other option is there?

    1. invisible resistance!

    2. Bullets and hit squads

  9. “‘Joe Biden wants a national mask mandate. “The question is whether I have the legal authority or not,” he concedes. “I think I do. If I did, I would” issue an order.”‘

    So says Senator Drool-Cup. Do the Dems realize that people all over the country are getting really tired of these lock-downs, and promising, or even hinting at more, could hurt their chances in the upcoming election?

    1. I wish that was true, but there are people who WANT lockdowns because they are so irrationally scared. Consider how much of the public approves of the mask nonsense.

      1. I am not so sure. While I don’t know anybody who likes the masks, most people I know consider it more of an annoyance than anything, But, I can find almost nobody who thinks the long-term lock-downs made any sense.

      2. Yes, the title of this article should have been “Are you ready for a second round of PANIC lockdowns?”

        1. Hey you canceled the whole DEM part(y).

  10. I want California to stay locked down. Why? Because this would help drive out the conservatives there in disproportionate numbers.

    The problem with California is it has a lot of wasted Republican vote whose only function is to give us more Democrats votes in the electoral college while, internally, living under one-party rule. Free yourselves, Republican Californians, from the shackles of all those environmental populists and labor unionists and all that nonsense! It’s a big country! Hundreds of cities in red and purple states to choose from.

    1. List of red/purple-state big cities (= population over 200K):

      Scottsdale – Glendale – Chandler – Mesa – Tucson – Phoenix – Salt Lake City – Boise – Lincoln – Omaha – Overland Park – Wichita – Tulsa – Oklahoma City – Amarillo – Irving – Garland – Lubbock – Laredo – Plano – Corpus Christi – Arlington – El Paso – Fort Worth – Austin – Dallas – San Antonio – Houston – Baton Rouge – New Orleans – Little Rock – St. Louis – Kansas City – Des Moines – Fort Wayne – Indianapolis – Akron – Toledo – Cincinnati – Cleveland – Columbus (OH) – Pittsburgh – Philadelphia – Lexington – Louisville – Memphis – Nashville – Fayetteville – Winston-Salem – Durham – Greensboro – Raleigh – Charlotte – Columbus (GA) – Augusta – Atlanta – Huntsville – Mobile – Montgomery – Birmingham – Tallahassee – Port St. Lucie – Hialeah – St. Petersburg – Orlando – Tampa – Miami – Jacksonville

      1. Philly hasn’t had a Republican mayor since 1952. Their assembly is almost entirely democrat. Their current mayor is an SJW borderline communist. Their DA makes decisions to prosecute based on skin color. How in the hell is it red/purple?

        1. accounts for the colors in the Sixers & Phillies unis.

        2. red/purple-state big cities

          Hyphens are important.

          1. If you live in Philly, you’re in a deep blue city state.

            1. Sure. But you could always move to Bucks and get the city whenever you want it without so much jackboot.

            2. Without the Republican votes in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, Trump wouldn’t have won the state.

              1. Raises hand.

                Pitt and Philly are hardcore dem cuz politicians in both cities have built their careers sucking labor union dick and overpromising and underdelivering to their black communities.

                It’s changing some, but our city schools in both cities are so bad they just churn out generation after generation of retard who are to stupid and illiterate to have read animal farm or 1984. in Pittsburgh public schools our proficiency level for graduating seniors in math is under 5% and English is 14%. That means there’s an 86% chance you’re an undereducated moron if you graduated from Pittsburgh public, and that’s only the graduates. We have nearly 50% truancy…so when you look at the proficiency of the entire school age population its much much worse. And most of these kids are black, and we haven’t had a republican in ANY city office for over 30 years.

                Where’s kuckland to tell me how great democrats are at running our modern liberal cities.

                1. Agreed. Just moved from Philly to the Pittsburgh area. Since we were relocating for my husbands job, we had the option of living in the city or just outside in the burbs. Well one look at the quality of the schools, + the higher cost of living, and the higher taxes to live in the city with crappy schools and it was an easy calculation. The public schools in the townships about 20 minutes away are top quality. Better than some private schools in NYC and Philly. Being black and coming from a predominately black school, my daughter was shocked that almost all the kids in her new school go to class, do their work, and don’t get into trouble or come to school reeking of weed. And she is happy to be in a school where she is not ridiculed for being a good student and caring about her education and her future, because out here that is the norm.

                  Also, aside from wearing masks indoors, people in Allegheny county are just living their lives as normal. There’s not Covid-19 panic. Ironically, when my husband went to hang with my stepson, a sophomore at Carnegie Mellon, he was surprised that it was the younger people who were actually wearing the masks outdoors. By us, hardly anyone, even the elderly and obviously sick, wear masks outdoors. We can eat indoors and go to bars (just can’t sit at the bar, which I miss), shop, ect. We are so happy this opportunity brought us here. The Dems have ruined NY, Philly, Chicago, almost all of CA, ect. I just don’t get how people can’t make the connection based upon one example after another of decades long incompetence and/or corruption.

        3. Austin? Red? even Purple?

          Yer fukkin kiddin me right?

          1. Hyphen, dude, hyphen. Austin is a big city in a red state.

            1. Austin smells and looks like the Walking Dead for like 14 square-blocks and those are the only blocks anyone wants to be on … go Cowboys.

          2. The Republicans there would still vote GOP in national elections (and in gubernatorial ones). States decide national elections, not cities.

        4. We have one Republican on the Board of Aldermenpersyns in St. Louis, I think. Out of 60-something. But the metro area in general is rather purple and the state itself is quite comfortably red.

        5. FYI here are the Phila numbers as of the 2019 general election:


          1. You probably meant 2016, but yeah, there you go. Philly alone provided enough Republican votes to tip the state to Trump. And that’s my point: the Republicans there may live in a “blue city”, but at least they can collectively help keep the state from going full Democrat, which the Republicans in California, New York, and other blue states are no longer able to do.

        6. The Philadelphia City Council has 17 seats, 10 elected from geographical districts and 7 elected at-large. As of the 2019 election, 9 of 10 district Council seats are held by Democrats. The City Charter stipulates that any party can only nominate five candidates for the at-large seats. As of the 2019 election, all five Democrats were elected. The lowest polling Democrat got 186,665 votes; a third party candidate won seat 6 with 60,256 votes, and an incumbent Republican won seat 7 with 53,742 votes.

          It’s a safe bet to say that if not for the City Charter’s limit of 5, Democrats would hold 16 of 17 seats.

    2. What’s the effect of mass exodus of a political party on a jurisdiction’s internal politics? I’d assume that if enough Republicans moved out to turn a state’s voter registration 95% Democrat (not counting independents), after a little while enough Democrats in the state would switch to make it 30% Republican; and that even if the GOP in that state wound up supporting the dictatorship of the proletariat, mass collectivization, and gulags, the national Republican Party would treat them like Republicans everywhere and vice versa.

      I just assume that locally there’ll always be an opposition party, even if a token one, just because A doesn’t want to be in the same party as B.

      1. I just assume that locally there’ll always be an opposition party, even if a token one, just because A doesn’t want to be in the same party as B.

        The trouble is that the national Republican Party is deeply unpopular in CA, so a lot of that “opposition” tends to go to various third parties or into just not voting, rather than into Republican support. CA Republicans are often quite sane, but they have a hard time overcoming the local hatred for the national party.

      2. “I just assume that locally there’ll always be an opposition party”
        Won’t that be progressive democrats vs traditional democrats?

      3. I don’t think the Republicans would ever go this far to appeal to a left-wing base. The farthest the current California GOP has gone to try to remain competitive in the state is to adopt more pro-environment positions.

        And frankly, I don’t care about that. My main goal from this is not to make California more or less conservative, but for that state to lose electoral-college votes by losing population while seeing other red or purple states gain (mainly Republican) population. I’d rather have a California that gives 40 electoral Democrat votes than one that gives us 55.

  11. Sweden, which didn’t shut down any businesses and reopened its schools in May, is now reporting a daily death rate from China death of 0.1 per million (i.e. 1 death per day) compared to 2.23 deaths per million in the US (i.e. 730 deaths daily).

    And Sweden’s rate of new cases daily is less than one fourth of the US.

    So where are the news stories about that key fact (especially since Democrats and the news media trashed Sweden’s no lockdown policy back in March, April and June).

    Israel and Montenegro now have the highest rate of new virus cases (more than 4 times that of the US).

    While the rate of new cases in the UK have been increasing, its still only half of the US rate.

    The best source of data comparing countries is at

    1. In Silicon Valley there was a point where the founder says that in tech being too early is just as bad as being too late. So it is with COVID restrictions.

    2. I’m shocked–SHOCKED–that the masks people are wearing in Israel aren’t making a difference.

    3. It’s also important to see whether the new cases are associated with new death or serious illness. If not, then it’s probably more of an artifact of the testing done. The case numbers need to be adjusted for the testing rate to be meaningful at all. And even then, the PCR test is too sensitive and not a good diagnostic tool.

  12. “But there’s an alternative that doesn’t just let the pandemic run wild. Officialdom could do something that doesn’t come naturally: give people information and let them make their own decisions.”

    Aren’t you adorable?

    Let’s see who would have to play along to make this work:
    Politicians and their lackeys who crave power and control? Not likely.
    Millions of sheeple who have been properly conditioned, and are psychologically dependent on official authorities for guidance and comfort? Nope.
    Media of all kinds who exist, both temperamentally and financially, to induce and distribute fear and panic? Uh-uh.

    Otherwise, it will work great.

    1. The problem with that idea is that it grants the assumption that the disease is serious enough to justify serious changes to our lifestyle. Once you grant that, it is pretty hard to say the government should not be involved.

      The only answer is to say the disease is not serious enough to justify any action beyond maybe protecting those most at risk. Basically Fuck you is the only answer at this point .

      1. John, fuck you was the answer every day about this.

        1. Correct.

          Isn’t Reason’s tone on this totalitarianism… interesting?
          Bit of a contrast from their TDS fantasies.

        2. Really the only logical libertarian position.

    2. >>Aren’t you adorable?

      lol exactly. i am an optimist but wow.

    3. I mean, if that worked, we wouldn’t need the drug laws!

  13. All you really need to do is look at this map, change it to cases per 100,000, and look at the infection rate on a state by state basis.

    Compare states that are similar in most ways–except for the lockdowns.

    Utah has an urbanization rate similar to New York’s and is even more highly urbanized (more than 1,000 people per square mile) than California’s.

    Utah has had 2,104 cases per 100,000 people.

    California has had 1,991 cases per 100,000 people.
    New York has had 1,892 cases per 100,000 people.

    Statistically that means Utah’s 2.1% infection rate is slightly higher than California’s 2.0% and New York’s 1.9%.–but that’s not much of a difference.

    Meanwhile, Utah never imposed a statewide lockdown. They had a citywide lockdown in Salt Lake City for two weeks. California and New York, on the other hand, locked down their economy early and for months and months.

    It seems like the lockdowns should have given California and New York a big advantage over Utah, but facts are facts regardless of whether they’re counterintuitive. It may be that vulnerable people isolate themselves regardless of whether there’s a lockdown, and that’s more important than shutting down businesses. Meanwhile, people who take risks may do so regardless of whether there’s a lockdown either. Regardless of the explanation, the lockdowns don’t make a big difference in regards to the ultimate number of people who are infected.

    You know what is a big difference in regards to the lockdowns?

    The unemployment rates.

    The unemployment numbers just came in yesterday for August.

    Utah: 4.1% unemployment
    California: 11.4% unemployment
    New York: 12.5% unemployment

    There was a bigger difference between Utah and the others in July.

    In other words, locking your economy down doesn’t ultimately do much to keep your infection rate down, but it destroys your economy.

    If Utah had a much higher infection rate, the lockdowns might be more reasonable, but as things stand, I don’t see where lockdowns have a statistic foot to stand on. You make yourself feel better by locking everyone else down, but you aren’t actually safer. If you want to stay safe, isolate yourself.

    1. To see and compare daily deaths and new cases of the China virus for each of the 50 states, as well as cumulative data, go to

      Its the only beneficial thing I’ve seen at NPR in the past 3 decades.

    2. They don’t. And it well past time for the courts to step in and nullify them. This is the biggest assault on the civil rights of Americans since slavery. They are making public health law into a trap door out of which to drop the Bill of Rights.

      1. Hyperbole doesn’t help, and mentioning slavery? Ugh. As if there isn’t enough racebaiting.

        How about the biggest assault on civil rights since the Japanese interment. Since the draft has never been deemed unconstitutional, this is certainly arguable.

        1. This is worse than the draft or interment. Those affected parts of the population. This restricts the rights of every American to assemble or make an honest living. You have to go back to slavery to find anything this bad. They are claiming the right to lock everyone in their homes indefinitely for God’s sake. That is not hyperbole.

          1. Everywhere there have been lockdowns, people could still go get food and engage in otherwise ‘essential’ activities. If you can’t agree that the claim that a quasi-quarantine with many exceptions is ‘worse than the draft or interment’ is hyperbolic, you are reacting emotionally in this moment and not logically based on history. The breadth may be greater, but the impingement on personal freedom is nowhere near as profound as forced conscription with the accompanying risk of death or being sent to a prison camp.

            1. Quarantine means isolating those who are sick or thought to be sick. It has never until now meant that the government could isolate everyone regardless of being sick or there being any reason to think they are.

              And the fact that the government allows people to leave their homes to do whatever the government deems essential does not make this any less of a violation of people’s rights.

              What the fuck is wrong with you? You are saying that the lockdowns are somehow mitigated because they let people out if the government thinks they have a good reason.

              Do you really think that makes it better? Is that your final answer? They let prisoners out on furloughs to go to funerals or maybe work. I guess prison isn’t a big infringement either

              Go fuck yourself. Again, what is broken in your head to cause you to say such bullshit?

              1. I quit working at shoprite and now I make $65-85 per/h. How? I’m working online! My work didn’t exactly make me happy so I decided to take a chance on something new…QAs after 4 years it was so hard to quit my day job but now I couldn’t be happier.

                Here’s what I do…>> CashApp

            2. I have to agree with John, since these measures are applied to everyone.

              1. They are indeed applied to everyone. On the other hand, they’re expected to be temporary, to be about to be lifted “any day now”. So that puts them at the intensity of the relocation camps, but extended to the whole world. By contrast slavery was expected to be a lifetime condition.

                There were shutdowns during the polio epidemics of the 20th Century, but they did not extend over as wide an area, usually did not encompass as much inactivity, and did not last this long.

              2. Also agree with John. All of the egregious assaults on individual rights in history have victimized a minority of the population, including conscription and slavery. The covid scam has affected the populations of entire states and nations. We’ve never seen worldwide tyranny on this scale before. It’s not hyperbolic to point out that obvious fact.

            3. Comparisons are always hard, but unless you get a great kick out of shopping for groceries and medicine, being allowed to do so isn’t much relief, when you consider that slaves and prisoners get fed too. A lot of the comparison is incommensurate when you consider that these historic impositions were before a time when so much could be done by telecommunication. We’d probably think slavery to not be as evil these days as people thought at that time, as long as the slaves could watch TV or YouTube or some such.

        2. I think a vastly dangerous precedent has been set. I’ve seen someone (can’t remember who) opining that we should have lockdowns for the “climate change emergency”. Sure, the person is not in a position of power but I think sooner or later those who are in power will pick up on this idea.

          I think “public health emergency” will become a standard go-to.

          1. Yes it will. It is terrifying

          2. I think a vastly dangerous precedent has been set.

            I agree wholeheartedly. Quarantine has precedent, but it is not quarantine for people who are not sick. It is just house arrest.

            1. No shit. They are quartining everyone. How the fuck can you not understand how bad that is?

          3. “I think “public health emergency” will become a standard go-to.”

            And remember that they keep telling us “racism” is a public health issue, a virus with no vaccine…

        3. “Hyperbole doesn’t help”

          Honestly, I think using fear tactics to make the people in your state feel like the choice is between death and unemployment is a big scandal.

          We’re talking about millions of Americans who wouldn’t be and shouldn’t be unemployed–and which almost certainly contributed to the rioting we’ve seen in recent months.

          I think it’s a big deal.

          And it’s a big deal that progressives in California and New York were faulting President Trump for not imposing lock down order and opening guidelines on a national basis. If they want to criticize President Trump for his handling of the virus, they open themselves up to criticism for the polices they imposed that tripled their unemployment rate compared to others who didn’t do what they did–and didn’t protect their people any better than Utah did without mandatory lockdowns.

          There’s a big lesson to learn there about the value of federalism, and I think Trump honestly decided it was in the best interests of the country to let the states decide for themselves based on their own local considerations. If Biden would have imposed a national lockdown, the votes should know now.

          1. How ironic that the looney left is criticizing Trump for not overstepping his authority.

          2. On the bright side this will all be over after the election. Until the next public health emergency.

            1. We will see…in four years.

    3. One should remember that, when talking about the efficacy of lockdowns, they should more properly be referred to as “lockdowns.”

      Because it’s mostly theater.

      1. On as slightly more serious note, rather than look merely at population density I think we also need to consider differing crime rates when comparing otherwise similar places.

        Because how much people actually play along matters immensely.

    4. take everything you said and add the fact that the rise in infections (positive PCR tests…which have their own issues) is not accompanied by an associated rise in hospitalizations/deaths. When you get to that point, you know the pandemic is over.

      Turns out the Obama admin tested (PCR testing) feverishly in 09 and 10 after the H1N1 epidemic in 2008. Both 09 and 10 had way more positive tests than the actual epidemic year but not the associated deaths/hospitalizations…so they eventually quit testing. Same is going to happen here.

      1. Same thing happened with Swine flu. And people wrote articles and stuff about it. But now everyone has forgotten all about that, apparently.

  14. Libertarians (and all other rational people) should be very pleased that Trump appointed Scott Atlas as his China virus advisor.

    Fauci and Birx have committed public health malpractice by relying upon fearmongering and advocating lockdowns and mask mandates.

    Atlas is a far more rational, responsible and positive public health advocate who relies upon data and evidence.

    1. >>Fauci and Birx

      got their 15 minutes. bet it was exhilarating

      1. Fauci even got away with telling a real doctor and the Senator from Kentucky that he didn’t know what he was talking about. Bet Fauci walked out of there with his first woody in a decade.

        1. Just to be clear, I am sarcastically saying that Fauci is a hack, he is old and that his dick doesn’t work.

          1. on the literal side likely correct as well. Birx was all sticky with self-satisfaction every time she spoke

            1. Damn. Fauci’s got a woody and Birx is sticky. Sounds like a crime scene.

          2. Wish you had said that the first time. I thought he left the hearings in a 60s station wagon.

        2. Oh for fuck’s sake. Would you go to Rand Paul to be treated for a respiratory disease? Be honest, would you even have him check your eyes?

          He obviously cares more about being a politician than being a libertarian, which is why he spreads pro-Trump idiocy like that embarrassing spectacle. But that’s giving him too much credit. He obviously reads the same stinky rightwing horseshit on the internet you do and has had his brain pickled.

          1. Rand Paul is an ophthalmologist, but he understands infectious disease epidemiology.

            1. Then why does he regurgitate utter nonsense rightwing bullshit instead of facts?

              1. Why do you lie constantly, lefty shit.
                We got the good news that Hihn kicked the bucket, and I was certainly hoping you’d done the same. Fuck off and die.

                1. Hihn died? Have been away from here for five years. Wonder if his epitaph includes “Christian caliphate.”

              2. Utter nonsense rightwing bullshit, as you call it, is the facts.

              3. Oh, fuck off. This isn’t a left/right thing. Plenty of non-right-wing-nutjobs have come to the same conclusions looking at the available data.
                Majorities have been majorly wrong like this plenty of times.

  15. Last week Trump held rally in Dayton. The Ohio Governor and Lt Governor were both there. They booed off the stage because of anger over the lockdowns. I don’t think these idiots understand what they are doing. The public is not going to put up with it. There will just be mass civil disobedience.

  16. My state didn’t lockdown and it’s been fine. We have a city mask mandate in businesses but no one enforces it except Walmart. I never wear one and no one has said a word to me about it.

  17. Governor Blackface has tested positive for the ‘rona. We, the people of Virginia, have failed to keep him safe.

    1. How could this happen?! Wasn’t he wearing a mask?

  18. Did you guys hear about a law that was quietly passed in Canada a few years ago that Canadians are now realizing gives the right to the Canadian government to forcefully detain people in undisclosed “black sites”– and it’s a power that they’re apparently using right now?

    1. Do you have a link?

    1. And man do Canadians believe in borders…

      And some Canadians say their government isn’t doing enough to stop Americans from entering the country.

      When a group of Americans showed up at a private campground in Golden, British Columbia, police told the campground owners it was their problem, the owners said. Joy Guyot and Michelle Nagydeak told CTV News that police told them to isolate the guests in a remote part of the campground away from others and make sure they didn’t leave.

      Trudeau Won’t Visit Trump. Most Canadians Don’t Want To Cross
      “We’re shocked that Alberta border patrol is just letting them through because it’s just a roundabout way of getting into B.C., and we have no control over anything when they come this way,” Nagydeak told CTV News.

      1. Looks like Canadians are a bunch of whiney little Karens. I had no idea. I thought I knew all there was to know about our frozen neighbors to the north from watching every episode of New Red Green.

        1. This all happened after they forced abdication on Don Cherry.

  19. They care about numbers on spreadsheets. They don’t care about people.

  20. Poor timing the first time around, so they’re looking to give it another go closer to the election?

  21. Virginia Governor Ralph Northam (D) and his wife have been found to be infected with coronavirus, thus dispelling the Democratic myth that only Deplorables can catch it.

    1. I guess wearing blackface doesn’t protect you either

      1. Well, Northam might have been the guy in the KKK getup (he’s not sure) which would imply masks don’t work either.

  22. [FOR USA] ?Single Mom With 4 Kids Lost Her Job But Was Able To Stay On Top By Banking Continuously 1500 Dollars Per Week With An Online Work She Found Over The Internet… Check The Details HERE……….Click For Full Detail.

  23. The original goal was to “flatten the curve”. To prevent a spike of cases that would overwhelm the hospitals. We have achieved that goal. While a lot of state curve where not “flat”, none reached the point where it impacted hospitals. The shortage of PPE was a far greater problem than the case load.

    We’ve done the job! We were successful!

    That doesn’t mean we can have a bunch of raves now, but it does mean we can loosen up. People at higher risk should remain under social isolation. I mean, duh. But the rest of us can get by with more pedestrian measures, just as masks and social distancing. No need to keep the schools closed. No need to send SWAT teams to birthday parties. No need for the karens to freak out. Lockdown fatigue is a real thing, and can be more dangerous in the long run than a marginally higher case load.

    There are WAY TOO MANY people out there, expecially in government, who think the goal is a zero case load. Bullshit. That’s just not realistic, and never will be. Hell, we don’t even have a zero case load for polio and polio was supposedly eradicated by our grandparents!

    This zero risk mentality is dangerous. But we’ve been operating under it under all areas of life for several decades now. We can’t live life in a bubble. Fuck the lawyers.

    1. And note the lack of definition whenever anyone says “case”. There are a GAZILLION NEW CASES! What does that mean? Are there a gazillion people hanging on death’s door? Are they all on respirators, are they just sitting at home under a blanket eating chicken soup, have they merely tested positive with no other symptoms?

      1. In some places a “case” means a particular person, in other places it just means a test result. Some places have even switched their definition between the two over time in reporting their results. The numbers are gibberish

    2. People are still trying to talk about ICU utilization percentages. Yet those same people never want to discuss absolute numbers of ICU beds.

      Because ICU beds are not a fixed asset – they are an expense, and hospitals convert them to ordinary beds when utilization falls too low.

      The people willfully gaming this virus is not limited to politicians and journolist hacks.

      1. and ICU beds are expected to be used for set periods of time when scheduling procedures. It’s the COVID-specific ICU bed count that matters, but good luck finding that stat in the gibberish

    3. PCR testing gets you a pretty high floor on “infections”…the false positive rate is pretty high.

      1. Not really “false positives” so much as “these people have so little of the virus they will never get sick or spread the bug.

        They should really be considered more like positive antibody tests, but OF COURSE we aren’t separating out the actual sick from the “high cyclers”.

        1. It could also be detecting inactive (dead) protein fragments from virions that could not infect anyone even if they were present in great amounts, not just low concentrations of active viruses.

          Whining about the number of cases misses the point. No one would have freaked out about this thing if it was like the cold for everyone. It’s the whole death thing that made it into what it was, not the number of people who get a positive test. Deaths and hospitalizations (relative to the number of hospital/ICU beds) are all that matter.

    4. Everything you wrote is completely correct except for this:

      While a lot of state curve where not “flat”, none reached the point where it impacted hospitals.

      New York City and its inner suburbs were absolutely overwhelmed. Hospitals were on divert daily here. But it wasn’t the catastrophe that everyone expected, merely extremely stressful for way too long. Also, the PPE was arguably less of an issue than staffing: between the post-exposure quarantines and the increased acuity of the patients it’s a wonder we have any nurses left.

      On the flip side, it’s possible, maybe even likely, that we’ll be spared much of a second wave (the projections I’ve done certainly appear that way). But the area and its decision makers are just so shell-shocked that getting to the point that reopening seems like a good idea is a bridge too far.

      Related, we speak in the abstract about isolating the most vulnerable (aka those aged 55+), but the political class are overwhelmingly members of that segment. Accordingly they’re going to work extra hard at protecting it regardless of its effect on everyone else.

      1. “New York City and its inner suburbs were absolutely overwhelmed”
        That’s why the mercy ship and field hospital in the park were empty

        1. The interesting thing about patients is that they’re people and have rights, and it quickly became apparent that nobody actually wanted to go to the field hospitals.

          Also, the hospitals themselves didn’t just hunker down and pray for everything to pass over; emergency measures to expand capacity were undertaken and that excess was very much leveraged. There were also changes in staffing ratios, PPE recycling, etc that were employed to prevent crisis mode from escalating into something worse.

      2. That’s what happens when you throw covid patients into the nursing homes, which Cuomo should have learned by watching Italy. Instead he created the crisis he was trying to avoid.

    5. But Johns Hopkins (whose Public Health School is now named the Michael Bloomberg Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, after Bloomberg gave them $$$$$$$$$$$$$$) has redefined “Flattening the Curve” to mean “Eliminate all new cases in the US” at

  24. It will be interesting to see the number of deaths for 2020. Obviously there may well be fewer traffic accidents, and possibly fewer murders in total. But there could be more suicides and overdoses. Maybe if they ever correct the bullshit covid death count number we’ll know. Anyway if you’re still panicking at this point you might as well just lock yourself in the house.

    1. Overall death rates in the US have been on an up trend for well over a decade. This largely attributed to a combination of an aging population and and end to easy low hanging fruit in healthcare (the remaining problems are getting harder to solve.) If the slope of that curve does not deviate drastically over the next two years then we will know the panic was mostly bullshit.

      If anything we’ve front loaded a significant number of deaths that would have otherwise occurred within a year or two at most.

    2. The only miscount that experts suggest may be happening is an undercount. Is that what you’re talking about?

      1. The only miscount that experts suggest may be happening is an undercount.

        This is not true.

        1. I did read above that Rand Paul counts as an expert on covid so maybe we need to define our terms.

          1. I’m all for defining terms.

            Term one:


            Define it.

            1. Not a term anybody used.

          2. I did read above that Rand Paul counts as an expert on covid so maybe we need to define our terms.

            What is it that makes me think your definition of “expert” involves calling epidemiologists who say it’s overcounted “deniers?”

            1. Cut him some slack. He’s angry and scared. Sucks to be him.

    3. One hospital official in California reported a year’s worth of suicide attempt hospitalizations in four weeks. The number of deaths from suicide were greater than from COVID. That was at a point after the lockdowns had been in effect for a while.

      If you want to save lives, that’s not how you do it. You take all the people with mental illness (including anxiety, which a lot of people have but have never been diagnosed) or substance abuse issues and take away their income, their security, their hobbies, their social support network, their therapists, their group meetings, and give them nothing but endless hours of free time and fear, and what do you think happens? The people pushing this COVID lockdown stuff seem to think that all other causes of harm were put on hold because of this disease. How many died to put off the deaths of some people for a few months? It will be a subject of study for years.

  25. “European governments and citizens want to avoid returning to the full-blown lockdowns of early 2020, including widespread business closures and stay-at-home orders, which broke the pandemic’s first wave[.]”

    No it didn’t. If lockdowns dis anything at all, it merely elongated the timeline and misery. Fewer people will not catch it or die. It will only take a little bit longer, while the economy continues to crater.

    Governors who’ve inflicted lockdowns and mask mandates should all be publicly hung.

    1. Truly. Look at the graph they showed us when they were explaining what “flatten the curve” meant. Look at the one that represents “if we do nothing at all.” It rises fast to a high peak, then drops fast (not as fast as the rise, but still quite fast) to baseline. If we do nothing, the first wave breaks itself. Sweden didn’t do any of that stuff, and their curve looks a lot like ours (you can see it at the CDC site).

      The crediting of lockdowns and masks orders for this reminds me of the thing about the dog who barks at a helicopter, sees it fly away, and is convinced that it was his fearsome display that drove it away.

  26. That would be great, Americans aren’t at each others throats enough. A few more months of lockdowns and the whole country will be a burning pile of shit, not just a few cities. Do none of our dumbass leaders see that the lockdowns have driven this country completely insane, while before we had a tolerable level of insanity. Has the whole world gone crazy!

    1. Do you acknowledge that there’s a virus at all? If so, who do you expect should sacrifice their lives so that you can return to normal society? Are you offering?

      1. If so, who do you expect should sacrifice their lives so that you can return to normal society? Are you offering?

        Me? I’m willing to take the risk, yes.

        1. As long as we agree that you’re not entitled to make that decision for other people you encounter.

          1. I promise not to make anyone go outside against their will.

            1. People have always been free to issue a stay at home order for themselves, to lock themselves down, to impose a mask rule on themselves, or any such thing. You want to do this stuff? Feel free, I won’t try to stop you. Extend the same consideration to me and we will have no beef. You decide for you, I decide for me.

          2. Lefty shit, I promise no to keep you or anyone else from looking after YOUR health.
            Fuck off and die.

    2. They told us they’re going to burn it down.
      They’re burning it down.

  27. “We’re looking at 40,000 new cases per day. That’s unacceptable,” Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, commented this week.

    By 40,000, he means 3. Or 120,000. Or possibly 29.5. It really could be anything, except 40,000.

  28. But don’t forget, if anyone is found in violation of these lockdown rules they will be dealt with through “unarmed community social work professionals” instead of the police.

    Because, you know, reasons.

    1. Actually, the police have been relatively tough on mask compliance. It’s the riots and burning of cities that they let happen. Mom at an outdoor football game without a mask? Tase her and drag her to jail. Idiot sets himself on fire when throwing a molotov cocktail at the cops? Whatever – no consequences.

  29. What possible difference could it make, except to remove any official recourse for people who are unsafe? You being unsafe doesn’t just affect you. We’ve already squandered months and untold economic activity on an unwillingness to buckle down. Still, people are choosing individually not to return to normal life despite widespread reopenings. Any economic damage you might complain about is the result of the virus, as much as you may want to blame the party out of power somehow.

    Not Trump supporters. They think it’s all a hoax.

    1. How does me being unsafe affect anyone but other people being unsafe?

      “safe” means turtling up in your home for the next decade. As long as you’re doing that, nothing I do affects you.

    2. We’ve already squandered months and untold economic activity on an unwillingness to buckle down.

      Still pretending there’s a correlation between lockdown policies and virus spread? Can you at least provide a basic cite for this before presenting it as an unassailable assumption?

      Sweden, by your logic, didn’t do jack shit, so they’re all dead now, right?

      Any economic damage you might complain about is the result of the virus

      Some of it is. As Ken demonstrated above, some of it is clearly related to lockdowns that achieved nothing.

      1. I’m saying that regardless of policies, people are not going back to full social participation. Most people (not you guys) are fairly rational actors when it comes to their health and safety.

        1. I’m saying that regardless of policies, people are not going back to full social participation.

          So why do we need the policies?

          1. *crickets*

            1. What did you expect. He is one of the first posters to attempt to discuss science issues but has the least understanding of any of it, far as I can tell.

          2. How about for assholes like you who are not treating reality with the rational approach the vast majority of us are?

            You’re argument is tantamount to “Why should we have laws against murder? After all, I’m a murderer.”

    3. We’ve already squandered months and untold economic activity on an unwillingness to buckle down

      You cannot wish the virus away. Kashkari’s 5-week super-lockdown will do nothing to eliminate it. This is the lesson from Australia, Israel, Denmark, and others (including in the US outside the Northeast) that were earlier and more enthusiastic adopters of your preferred approach. A residual of the virus will remain in the population among those not subject to such overwhelming restrictions and it will roar back as soon as said restrictions are lifted.

      Lockdowns are not the right measure. That much is clear from a holistic look at the evidence. The argument is instead best to keep cases/hospitalizations at a manageable level while allowing people to live their lives as they see fit. And there is no correct answer here, it’s a manner of risk tolerance.

      1. We could have done better than we did.

          1. I’m stating an objective fact. We did worse than every other civilized country (a refrain that’s getting familiar), thus we could have done better. Copy one of them and we’d have fewer deaths by the tens of thousands.

            1. Any idea of “better” is illusory. It’s way too early.

              Also, I guess the UK, Chile, Spain, and Belgium are shithole countries now. Good to know.

              And in CFR we’re ahead of most of Europe, which means we’re either better at testing, better at treating, or both. So hey, go us.

              1. Lefty shit is also comparing a country of some 300M in extremely variable concentrations to countries of what size and what density?
                The shit picked that claim off of Vox or CNN and has no idea what it means; critical thinking has never been among his skill-set.

            2. Stating “an objective fact “, without offering proof that it’s “objective”, or a “fact”? Assertions are not FACTS. Want to give proof a shot?

            3. Copy one of them and we’d have fewer deaths by the tens of thousands.

              I choose Sweden.

              1. No fair! They didn’t confine people! How can that be a comparison?

            4. “…We did worse than every other civilized country (a refrain that’s getting familiar),..”

              A lie which is beyond tiresome, lefty shit.

            5. (a refrain that’s getting familiar)

              Yeah, we suck. Everything is so terrible and unfair.

        1. Tony, and everyone else, might want to read the article in Liberty Unbound titled “Politics Before Science”. He catalogs the countries that actively use the BCG vaccination for tuberculosis vs. those that don’t. Those that have been using BCG for years have a much lower death rate per million people.
          From the article: “the average number of deaths per million from COVID-19 for countries in Europe that presently mandate vaccination with BCG is 107. The average for those that used to vaccinate, but stopped, is 257. The average for those that never mandated vaccination at all is 563.”
          We are actually in line with those countries.

    4. Buckling down would just drag the pandemic out longer. That’s what it is meant to do, and if effective, what it does. That’s “flattening the curve.” You’ve somehow gotten the idea that slowing down speeds you up, and that’s not how it works.

      Look at the two curves on the graph the government gave us that showed “if we do nothing” and “flattening the curve.” The “if we do nothing” one had the line dropping to near baseline at about July, while the “flattening the curve” one had the peak only being reached in July, with the drop to baseline so far off in the future that it wasn’t even on the graph. Transposing the growth to decay rate ratio and extrapolating from the curve as shown, the return to baseline on that graph wouldn’t be happening until waaaaay into 2021. That’s what “buckling down” does, by design.

    5. Do us all a favor and move to Canada already.

  30. So, Tucille. You got your test case. Florida is basically opening up everything, primarily depending on people to decide for themselves what they should or shouldn’t do in the midst of a pandemic. By the way, they are doing this when their numbers are going up. But what, me worry? Which also belies you’re constant refrain that we’ve had stringent lockdowns in this country.

    But DeSantis screwed up before. Just like Abbott did. And Ducey. Let’s see how this works out. We’ll check back! Enjoy!

    1. Which also belies you’re constant refrain that we’ve had stringent lockdowns in this country.

      We have. I’m living under one right now, and have been since March. There hasn’t been a national lockdown, and no one claims there has been.

      1. Oh really? What state are you in that has a stringent lockdown since March. By the way, since this website constantly compares this country to Sweden, if every state hasn’t had a lockdown since the start, the country hasn’t been locked down.

        But what state, eh?

        1. According to <a href=";the people that actually study this stuff, this country has had a lockdown at least as stringent as its peers. But hey, you do you.

          By the way, since this website constantly compares this country to Sweden, if every state hasn’t had a lockdown since the start, the country hasn’t been locked down.

          This is such a bureaucrat’s answer.

          1. Thanks. You do know, I hope, that on the map of stringency the US is in grey. Which means no data.

            Such a BSers response from you.

            1. Hey, Jackand Ace!
              I’m still waiting for you to tell us what measures we could take to address climate change, and when those measures would have abn effect on the CA wildfires.
              Cat got your tongue, you lefty pile of shit? Or are you willing to admit your bullshit is nothing other than lefty ‘prayer’?
              Hey, Jackand Ace! Put up or shut up!

            2. “Thanks. You do know, I hope, that on the map of stringency the US is in grey. Which means no data. ”

              Oh, no, thank YOU, you pathetic piece of lefty shit.
              Seems your cite fell off, and I’m sure there is ‘no data’ available for the US lockdown…
              Actually, I’m sure you are

        2. What state are you in that has a stringent lockdown since March.

          I didn’t say anything about a state. I live in Contra Costa County CA, and I work in Alameda County CA. Both have been locked down since March. Many areas have had mandatory face masks for months, no indoor dining, no movie theaters, no barbers – I can go on and on.

          if every state hasn’t had a lockdown since the start, the country hasn’t been locked down.

          From the very comment you’re responding to:

          “There hasn’t been a national lockdown, and no one claims there has been.”

          1. What a laugh. You live in California and you’re actually whining about stringent regulations. You’ve been living with restaurants open for months, one example.

            Here’s a link from your county back in June about loosening of any restrictions.


            But it’s typical of so-called libertarians here. You attempt to bs your way in any discussion. See KDN above who puts a link up and doesn’t even bother to read it himself. You’re no better. You wouldn’t know a stringent restriction if it bit you. You haven’t been living in them since March like you claimed.

            If what you’re currently living in is to you a lockdown, you’re crazy. I live in NY. We had a lockdown in March. We don’t anymore. Grow up.

            1. “What a laugh. You live in California and you’re actually whining about stringent regulations. You’ve been living with restaurants open for months, one example.”
              You are, still and constantly –
              From your link:
              “County restaurants may now offer outdoor dining options..”
              Those restaurants are not ‘open’, and it would take a lefty shit like you to try to spin that as you did.

              “But it’s typical of so-called libertarians here. You attempt to bs your way in any discussion. See KDN above who puts a link up and doesn’t even bother to read it himself. You’re no better. You wouldn’t know a stringent restriction if it bit you. You haven’t been living in them since March like you claimed.
              If what you’re currently living in is to you a lockdown, you’re crazy. I live in NY. We had a lockdown in March. We don’t anymore. Grow up.”
              Just called on blatant bullshit and you offer this? I’m guessing that reading is so HARD, you didn’t read your link, shitstain.
              Oh, and let’s hear about your prayer to Gaia (see below).

          2. One more thing…I will say the same to you as I said to Tucille. You’ve got your test case now in Florida. No restrictions, in essence. Let’s all see how that works out. I’m sure like him you think Florida will start having less infections, less cases, less death. Because masks and regulations are useless. Let’s see, right? I’ll get back you in 6 weeks.

            1. Hey, Jackand Ace!
              I’m still waiting for you to tell us what measures we could take to address climate change, and when those measures would have abn effect on the CA wildfires.
              Cat got your tongue, you lefty pile of shit? Or are you willing to admit your bullshit is nothing other than lefty ‘prayer’?
              Hey, Jackand Ace! Put up or shut up!

              1. You’re a blithering idiot, Sevo, so that’s the last I’ll ever dignify a response to you. But you fit the libertarian profile well! Keep ‘em coming! I’m sure square=circle is pleased to be in your corner.

                1. “You’re a blithering idiot, Sevo, so that’s the last I’ll ever dignify a response to you…”

                  Thank you for admitting you’re offering nothing other than a fundy lefty prayer for supernatural assistance, you pile of slimy lefty shit.
                  I am certainly not the only one to have figured that out, but your admission is appreciated.
                  Fuck off and die.

                2. Oh, and this shitstain won’t admit to being called on bullshit again? How…………

        3. Washington just passed 6 months this week. Stuck “paused” forever because — SHOCKER — hiding from a virus doesn’t make it go away.


  31. How does nobody in power have the ability to see what seems obvious: when we lock down, positive test rates will fall. When we open, positive test rates will rise. Why? Because the virus will not disappear. We can hide from it, but that only delays the inevitable.

    Some seem fine with that. They are willing to hide out until there is a magic pill or a vaccine that is 100% effective or the virus mysteriously disappears from the face of the earth. But if those are the goals, these measures are not temporary in any sense of the word.

    I must confess to some level of despair. I live alone, and I moved over 1,000 miles in March this year, so I am in a place with zero support network. With the stupid virus and the masks and this horrifying presidential election and the violent protests in so many of our cities, I am losing all hope. I’ve made the point about quality of life being as important as avoiding death so many times that I feel like I am in an existentialist version of hell. Everything has changed, and nothing changes. I won’t make it until the end of 2021. Even then, will the virus have pulled an impressive disappearing act?

    Why don’t people like me matter? I drink more, I sleep more, I exercise less. I spend far too much time alone in my small apartment. People are being tased for not wearing a mask at an outdoor football game, but those throwing molotov cocktails at police officers seem to face no serious repercussions. The cynic in me does believe that there are political calculations behind these decisions – it’s not about the science, or protests would also be banned.

    If you had told me last year that soon people would be arrested for singing hymns in a church parking lot, that police would break up birthday parties, that California would shut off electricity to homes where people gathered, That we would all go around wearing masks, that we would place the good of the very few ahead of the good of the vast majority, that Portland would burn for over 100 days, that DC would provide money to restaurants to winterize their patios with tents and propane heaters (essentially making them indoor dining spaces), that I would be required to hate myself for being white, or that Biden would be the one to face Trump, I would have laughed at you and your tin foil hat. Yet – here we are.

    So I will drink and sleep and keep feeling absolutely powerless (because I am). I’m just extremely grateful that I spent some of my prime years during the best decades in this country. I’ve traveled, gotten a wildly good education (in person), and experienced some wonderful things. I’ve faced serious hardships along the way, too.

    It is hard not to feel like life is already over, for all intents and purposes. Organizations have begin announcing that their major conferences in 2021 will also be virtual. I’m only 44. I wanted to do so much more. I am not suicidal – I could never do that to my family – but I do feel like a salmon swimming upstream in the summer.

    We hate each other so much. No matter which way it goes, this election will be dangerous. I cannot renew my passport because the old man at Walmart in the checkout line is an essential worker but employees of DOS who issue passports are not. I am trapped in this country that is falling apart. We are currently allergic to information and rational discussion is not an option.

    Is anyone else feeling this way? It would help to know that I am not alone. Another lockdown will serve only to reinforce bad habits and discourage personal and professional growth. Why are we okay with this?

    1. You’re not alone – you’ve articulated my feelings better than I could. I can’t imagine having just moved so far away only for society to lose its collective mind and not allow you to really integrate into your new home.

      I feel it most acutely with my one year old daughter – who I am certain would be at least a littlw more comfortable around strangers if people didn’t generally try to give us a wide berth at all moments and have masks on so that she can’t see that they’re smiling at her. I’m just glad that I’m not having to face a decision of having her ‘attend’ school over the Internet, even though prior to this mass hysteria most pediatricians encouraged limited screen time…

      I keep hoping the madness will end soon, but articles like this one make it seem like the world is undergoing a permanent change, and not a happy change…

      1. Thank you. Sincerely.

    2. “Why don’t people like me matter?”

      They do. But probably not where you live. Consider living among your kind, and you’ll feel more comfortable, more secure, and happier.

      Where’s your kind? Based on some of the stuff you’re describing, I would say South Florida: Most of everything in that state is open and is unlikely to shut down again, and a lot of people there are out and about there, largely roaming freely, intermingling. It’s got the beaches, social networks, and it is socially moderate/tolerant but without the wokeness and the riots like other socially liberal regions (or much less of that).

      And yes, there is some political strategy behind that. Blue states want to keep the economy unproductive and the country’s awareness in covid mode to decrease Trump’s chances of reelection.

    3. Tons of people feel this exact way. The lockdowns are going to kill more people than covid.

    4. Normally I would say……… well, never mind about that.

      It’ll be ok. This will pass.

    5. Thank you Lada Dada for sharing your thoughts.

      None of my close friends live near me but usually that is okay because I know a lot of people in my area and seeing them at church, children’s school and local stores made for a nice social life on a daily basis. Now that is gone. Either I don’t get out much or when I do everyone is covered in a mask and I don’t recognize anyone.

      It is an illogically strange world we live in these days. I feel like we are living inside a Twilight Zone episode. I think the strangest part about it is that most people are okay with it. I feel like there is an equation of 7 x 3 and I say the answer is 21 but everyone else says it is 200.

      I think of the desert monks who chose to live alone like St. Anthony. I wonder how they did it?

  32. Is the fear of being painted as an ignorant, racist, Trump supporter keeping us from peaceably gathering to petition for a redress of grievances? Do we all fear being cancelled and losing our jobs?

    I just can’t believe that I am the only one who sees that the emperor has no clothes.

    1. You’re not. The media does not represent or reflect us. Twitter doesn’t either. The view of reality we are being given is curated by people who have an axe to grind. The media want us who support Trump and America to feel discouraged so we stay home in November, already convinced we’re beaten. They’re campaigning for the Democrat, same as always, without having to follow any of the laws about contributions. Without that, they’d be lost… their ideas are so crazy that without the media to cover for them, they’d be gone. Consider that the entire Democrat party looked through their roster and concluded that Biden, the man called “assassination insurance” when he was veep for Obama, is now the candidate, only now (12 years down the road) he has unmistakable signs of dementia that he didn’t yet have when he was chosen to be Obama’s running mate.

      I don’t believe a bit of it about how he’s going to win. Everyone I know who voted for Trump can’t wait to go do it again. Anyone who has any sense, even who hates Trump, would do the same, because the alternative is so much worse.

      Biden would not be the one running the show… he can’t even handle a debate with a moderator that is on his side on US soil. He would at best be a puppet for some unnamed figure… someone who is so bad that they would be less electable than Biden (or else the DNC would have chosen that person). It’s no secret that Biden is addled… people know this. But we live in cancel culture now, and it is not wise to come forward with not being a Democrat right now. I don’t answer the phone when the caller ID says it’s a pollster (and I have gotten several such calls). Caller ID can be spoofed, and while I would like to register my support for Trump, I don’t know that the entity on the line is truly who the caller ID says.

      My ballot, though, is secret.

  33. We are not going to abide further restrictions. Especially when we see that they do NOT apply to certain people.

    Governments will have to think of something else. We are done with them.

  34. I’m surprised that JSlave hasn’t jumped in here yet to start peddling his usual hysterical bullshit.

  35. On topic:
    “An Oakland events space openly defied coronavirus rules.”
    “An Oakland events space has hosted indoor weddings, birthday parties and wakes — sometimes exceeding 100 people — since July, according to the manager of the space, in violation of state and county pandemic restrictions about large gatherings.
    Events manager David Oertel reopened the Humanist Hall events space this summer because he said he suffered a “devastating” financial loss from canceling so many events. Oertel said people want a place to gather, and he hasn’t seen “any evidence” of the coronavirus and doesn’t think it’s anything more than “a bad flu.”…”

    Fainting couches available for JFree and other cowardly shits.

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  39. I’m at a loss for words for the sheer magnitude of this continued incompetence and hysteria.

    If people don’t get a hold of their politicians and stop listening to public health officials FAST, this is going to be another level of devastating.

  40. The voice of reason did finally emerge in the person of Dr. Scott Atlas. Unfortunately, he’s not getting much traction. He’s pushing against Fauci- the voice of the establishment AND THE NANNIES.

  41. Listen to these tone deaf morons like Fauci saying “normalcy won’t return until end 0f 2021” with that eternal loser smirk on his face.

    Based on what? And what do you think will happen the economy keeps going in and out of lockdown all the way until end of next year? Young people in this country lose another year of getting a proper education?

    In today’s bizarro world, people who want the economy to reopen to avert a disaster are some right wingers who wants to get haircuts. If holiday spending isn’t up to par this year and retail apocalypse hits next year, where will the majority of 380 million people find work?

  42. To the people stating we should get more people infected what the heck is wrong with you?

    Experts say we’ll need at least 70% of the population infected to achieve herd immunity. New York is at ~20% infected. Do you realize what getting 70% of the population infected will look like? We are at about 1% death rate from this. 200 Million Americans will have to be infected. That will result in 2 Million dead. That’s a CONSERVATIVE estimate.

    You lack any and all empathy. Survival of the fittest isn’t the best course of action here. Get help.

    1. Let’s see how your math works out, shall we? If we’re at 20% infected, then getting to 70% would require 3.5 times more people get infected. Since we have 200k deaths at 20%, how would we get to 2 mil deaths at 70%? 200k x 3.5 = 700k, far fewer than the 2 mil you say would happen. The problem is that the mortality rate you are using is far too high. By the CDC’s own estimate, around 60 million people have been infected, and we’ve allegedly had around 200k deaths. That’s a mortality rate of .33%, not 1%. Now if we take into account that the majority of deaths have been to those over 60, we can infer a mortality rate of less than .2% for those under 60. To put that in perspective, that’s a survival rate of better than 99.8. Note also that this is a highly contagious new virus without an available vaccine that does have a non-zero mortality rate. Most, if not close to all of the people who have died from this were doomed the moment that Chinese researcher first caught the damned thing last year.

      It’s not survival of the fittest that many here want to see. We want to see the vulnerable members of the population in voluntary lockdown while the rest of the population goes about their lives and gets us to the 70% infected rate. Then, once there, things can loosen up for the more vulnerable in the population. All your strategy does is prolong the inevitable for the more vulnerable, unless you’re really banking on an effective and widely distributed vaccine coming in the next couple of months or so.

      1. And we’ve squandered a wonderful opportunity to relatively safely get much closer to that 70% infected rate, with millions of healthy people from 17 to 22 years old returning to close proximity to one another and who were’nt going to be anywhere near Gammy and Pop Pop for the next 3-4 months (i.e. colleges reopening). Unfortunately, the colleges have had to implement a stringent control regime thanks to their parents being sold a faulty bill of goods thanks to pants-shitters like you. Most of these kids aren’t stupid; they know the real risk for those in their age cohort, but the colleges have to institute the extreme measures to satisfy their parents. I have two healthy kids in their early to mid 20s. Do I hope they get it? Yes, then they can be done with this bullshit.

  43. I just looked at the case counts in 2 of the boroughs in NY city. They are averaging about 40-50 cases per day. I had heard that the case positivity rate in NYC was around 1%. I think they have it under control.
    Did you miss Thomas’s post above:
    From Table 1.
    Current best estimates (as of 9/10/20) of COVID IFR (infection fatality rate) by age group
    0-19 years: 0.00003
    20-49 years: 0.0002
    50-69 years: 0.005
    70+ years: 0.054
    Your 1% is way off.
    I doubt it will get anywhere near 2 million deaths.

  44. I consent to these mandates because the mandates make sense.

    I’m one to believe that government begins when a community, commonwealth or citizenry consents to a social contract regarding how to structure or constitute government and regarding what laws to follow with the goal of providing the best outcome for those who consent.

    I don’t believe in “natural law” garbage I see today, mainly because those proponents of this clearly haven’t read Locke, Hobbes, Voltaire or anyone–all of whom accept the understanding that citizen individuals relinquish “natural rights” when the consent to civil government.

    Gets pretty tiresome when libertarian fruitcakes all demand “FREE DUMB!!” just because the government, operating in the public interest during an emergency mandates certain activities common sense and science both show work to stem the spread of an epidemic.

    Oppositional-Defiance Disorder. Libertarianism as a creature of 19th Century anarchists.

    Locke’s solution to those who refused to consent to the social contract? That they voluntarily relinquish all capital and property they gained while taking advantage of the laws and government to which they did not consent, and then voluntarily leave that commonwealth altogether.

    Problem solved. I hear there’s lots of “great property for libertarians” in the Gobi Desert. You should go.

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  46. One thing missing in the comments is the correlation between working from home and positive rates. I mean, look at how many people in the comments alone have quit their jobs and are making tons of cash. That has to affect the numbers from a contract tracing standpoint.

    Related question: how does Shoprite stay in business if so many people are quitting for these work from home gigs?

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