Post Office

Post Office Expects $9 Billion Loss This Year, Will Prioritize Mail-in Ballots Before Election Day

Postmaster Louis DeJoy told members of Congress that the post office must make changes to survive. Will Congress let it?

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Postmaster General Louis DeJoy attempted on Friday to depoliticize recent policy changes that have slowed mail service and to calm worries that the post office will be unable to process an expected surge in absentee ballots amid the COVID-19 pandemic.

In testimony to the Senate Homeland Security Committee, DeJoy promised that mailed ballots would be given priority in advance of November's general election. But he also stressed the dire financial straits facing the U.S. Postal Service—circumstances that have been worsened by the pandemic and that will necessitate changes if the post office is to remain functional.

"As we head into the election season, I want to assure this committee and the American public that the Postal Service is fully capable and committed to delivering the nation's election mail securely and on-time," DeJoy told the committee. He voiced support for voting by mail—saying that he intends to vote by mail himself—and promised that "the Postal Service will deliver every ballot."

The post office has found itself at the center of controversy after reports of delivery delays and disconnected mail-sorting machines. Democrats have accused DeJoy, who became postmaster general in June after a successful career as head of a private-sector logistics firm, of implementing those changes in order to interfere with the election. Most states have expanded the availability in mail-in voting this year in response to the coronavirus pandemic and in hopes of preventing crowding at polling places.

Both sides have been blowing the issue out of proportion. President Donald Trump has alleged that the more widespread use of mail-in voting is ripe for fraud, but there is no evidence to support that claim; Trump himself has voted by mail as recently as March of this year. Democrats, meanwhile, believe DeJoy is engaged in a nefarious plot to disenfranchise Americans, even though the expected uptick in mail volume around the election would fall well within the post office's usual capabilities.

It's good to see that DeJoy is trying to lower the temperature surrounding this debate. He told the committee on Friday that more "dramatic changes" to mail service will be postponed until after the election.

That makes sense. But make no mistake about it: Dramatic changes are necessary. The post office, DeJoy said, is facing the prospect of a $9 billion shortfall this year alone—a huge total for an agency that is supposed to be self-sustaining.

If members of Congress are surprised to learn that the post office needs serious reforms, they haven't been paying attention. The Government Accountability Office warned in May that the post office's business model is "not financially sustainable" after it lost $78 billion since 2007.

Pension costs are driving those losses. At the end of 2019, the postal pension fund had $50 billion in unfunded liabilities—that's the long-term gap between what the fund expects to pay out to current and future beneficiaries and the amount of revenue the fund is expected to collect from workers' paychecks and investment earnings. The fund that covers health care expenses for retired postal workers is facing a $69 billion unfunded liability.

But the post office can't do anything about those pension costs without congressional approval, DeJoy reminded the committee on Friday. Indeed, the post office has been asking Congress for years to approve changes to help stanch the bleeding, including reducing delivery days, closing locations that have few customers, and repealing collective bargaining. If members of Congress aren't going to support wholesale changes to how the Portal Service does business, they shouldn't be surprised when DeJoy tries to save money in the few ways available to him.

The good news is that the post office's longterm troubles are mostly disconnected from partisan electoral politics, and that the Portal Service should be capable of handling mail-in ballots in November. The bad news is that, once the election is over, not many people are likely to keep caring care about the very real problems that do exist within America's mail system.

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  1. He voiced support for voting by mail—saying that he intends to vote by mail himself—and promised that “the Postal Service will deliver every ballot.”

    And millions of additional ballots!

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    2. Uni I have not one problem with USPS delivering the mail in ballots. What EVERYONE s/b thinking about is WHO is going to be counting the ballots esp in Ca, NY, Ill, Pa, NJ all dem dominated anti american strongholds and controllers of nearly half the electoral votes. That is the major fear here not the delivery of the mail. The dem/libs are performing magic tricks in blaming the USPS by faint praise.

      1. Yes, the real problem should be focused on the local elections office. A lot states will have ballot drop off boxes , so the USPS delivery issue will be less of an issue. Once they get to the local BOE, care should taken to secure and accurately count all ballots!!

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  2. Democrats on committee suggest that, to save Post Office money, all mail-in ballots are required to be marked “Democrat” or “Republican” by the voter on the return envelope, and the one’s saying “Republican” don’t need to be delivered.

    1. That would be funny except that it is too believable.

      1. So you believe the postmaster general who gave Trump 5 million dollars to get his jog and who is a major Trump the chump supporter and a Republican will collude with the democrats to make sure Trump looses? You are also suggesting all postal workers are dishonest. You are quite an idiot.

        1. No. I believe, however, that Congressional Democrats would suggest such misconduct to the postmaster general, and that he would comply if he happened to be a career bureaucrat.

          I believe that because we have seen such abuses of power by Democrats over and over again already.

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        2. It has little to with postal workers or the PM general. Ballots can be printed harvested by political goons. Explain how 6 Republicans won Congressional seats on Election Day only to have results over turned….. ?

        3. He did not give Trump 5 million dollars. Where do people get this stuff. First of all, Trump doesn’t need to take dirty money – rememer – he is already a billionaire. Second of all, he is already wildly wealthy himself – he doesn’t NEED this headache. He is doing it because he wants to help. Did that ever occur to you?

        4. No I do not. I DO know that given half a chance the anti american dem/socialist party WILL do everything it can to invalidate or miscount GOP/conservative votes.

        5. “…Trump the chump…”

          Why do brain-dead TDS victims spend half their lives inventing nick-names which embarrass 1st-grade kids?
          Easy: The kids are smarter than they are.

    2. Trump would do it the reverse way if he could get away with it. I’ve never seen a President so afraid of a fair election, but then again, we’ve never had a more narcissistic or incompetent “President.”

      1. We haven’t had fair elections in years: Democrats have been corrupting the election process and resisting sensible security precautions for decades.

      2. midmike you want fair and honest elections do away with winner take all electoral voting and award electoral votes on the basis of candidates votes received. In many states partys are so heavily in majorities (for ex. californias 55 votes are 60% to 40% dem) that it invalidates the 40%(means they don’t count). No matter which way this breaks it is not right.

      3. “I’ve never seen a President so afraid of a fair election,”

        So you’re in the 5th grade?

  3. Why is the Postmaster General getting lampposted by Congress?

    1. Because people are burnt out on COVID and the BLM/Antifa “mostly peaceful protests” so the left needz to give us something else to worry about.

      1. figured not substantive. thanks.

  4. DeJoy is in a hard spot in part because the President put him there. President Trump is facing a tough election and rather than engage the voters he seems to be looking for excuses for the loss. If he is like Hillary Clinton and just wants to whine, so be it. The concern is that he is trying to delegitimize the vote and particularly mail in voting. The problem of the post office are legitimate but now is not the time to address them. Now is the time to focus on the task of getting mail through to show that we continue to have free and fair elections.

    1. .000011/10

    2. DeJoy is in a hard spot in part because the President put him there.

      DeJoy was in a soft spot because he easily debunked almost every conspiratorial talking point the Democrats through at him.

  5. This USPS conspiracy theory was thoroughly debunked today. But I bet we continue to hear about it all the way through the election. Meanwhile, the QAnon conspiracy is still getting more press as a conspiracy while the media is essentially passing the USPS conspiracy as valid.

    In other election news, Democrats in Montana harassed petition signers in order to get them to recant their signatures, and force the Green Party off of the November ballot.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dems-green-party-montana-senate-ballot

    This seems like quite the abuse of voter rights.

    1. Got to hand it to my Governor… Thank God he is term limited, and has no chance of winning the Senate seat. He also has likely destroyed the chances of his parties nominee from winning the governorships and the AG position.

    2. “Hmm…we could let voters rank their choices in an election, so that if the third-party doesn’t win the third party voters’ second choices will be recorded…no, that would give voters too much of a protest vehicle against our duopoly. Better to intimidate the voters so no third parties appear on the ballot.”

      1. Bullock doesn’t want that. He only won a plurality last election and likely would have lost if the libertarian candidates voters had a second choice.

        1. My mistake he did win a bare majority 50.3%.

    3. IT was NOT thoroughly debunked. It was not debunked at all. It WILL not be debunked until every sorting machine is back on line and every removed mailbox replaced. And that won’t happen, but it will make it easier for Trump to lose.
      The Postal Service should not be expected to make money. It exists to provide a service for ALL Americans, even in places where it loses money doing so. We could save a lot MORE money by repealing the 2017 tax legislation and cutting the bloated defense budget.

      1. And that won’t happen, but it will make it easier for Trump to lose.

        Let’s be clear here: on its own, voting by mail helps Republicans, because it’s primarily the elderly who use it.

        Trump and Republicans oppose voting by mail because they believe that Democrats will use it to commit election fraud.

        It sounds like you are agreeing with Trump and Republicans, you simply like the idea that Democrats will be committing election fraud.

      2. What – why would you want to go backwards? I just don’t get it?

      3. You want “every sorting machine back on line”. Does that include the ones scheduled for maintenance, the ones scheduled to be replaced, and the ones not needed because there’s plenty of mail sorting capacity to deliver the 400+ million pieces of mail they deliver every day? You want to save money elsewhere, but not in the money losing government mail service. That’s consistent with what a government mail man would want, except they’d want to save money by not investing in unnecessary equipment so their pension is more secure.

        The USPS delivered 142.6 billion pieces of mail in 2019, that’s 453 million pieces of mail per day (delivering 6 days/week). And Democrats like you claim the USPS can’t less than one day’s worth of delivery in additional ballots over an election lasting a few weeks. It’s a drop in the bucket of mail. Further, they’re making it easier to sue the Post Office as well.

        Yeah, this is all a liberal conspiracy theory: to blame Trump when the Democrats (or Republicans) of a state, who are the ones responsible to run the election, fail to run a good election without problems for which they are responsible. It even looks like they are doing this intentionally, because they intend to create problems with the election.

  6. You know damned well Trump will protest the election results. And you know damned will Democrats will protest the election results. This country has become to tribal that it’s all about the tribe. And they’ll blame mail-in voting and the Post Office. You know it’s going to happen.

    We don’t know who will have won the election on election night and that’s going to trigger literally everyone. No one will accept the results. It’s going to make the 2000 hanging chad shit seem like kindergarten warmup.

    This is partly why the Electoral College exists. But no one is going to accept the results of the Electoral College if it doesn’t fit their narrative. I suspect we’re facing civil unrest like this country hasn’t seen since the Civil War. No, we won’t have a civil war, but there’s going to an awful lot of pants shitting and cries of “not my president”.

    Don’t believe me? Just stop and think what YOU will do if your candidate will lose. What will you do if Trump loses. Now multiply that by one hundred million. THAT’S what is going to happen to this country regardless who who loses.

    1. >> Trump will protest the election results

      or gonna win so hard the results can’t be cheated.

      1. He won’t Win hard. He’s too incompetent to fool too much of the electorate for that. he will have to go totally outside of the Constitution and the rule of law to stay in office. And Trump would do it.

        1. Everything is so terrible and unfair.

        2. Mike, Mike, you’re confused. We’re talking about Trump, not the senile, lobotomized Biden.

    2. “Don’t believe me? Just stop and think what YOU will do if your candidate will lose.”

      I’ve become pretty well resigned to the fact that Mickey Mouse isn’t ever going to become president.

      1. And Mr. Jablome rarely wins, either.

        1. William? I might consider doing some door to door canvassing for Will Jablome.

      2. his dad was Nazi sympathizer.

        1. Not true. He was a critic of Israel.

        2. Ha, ok that was good.

    3. I’ll probably do the same thing I did in 2008, 2012 and 2016, get up and go to work and shrug my shoulders, because life goes on.

      1. And I would probably be more shocked if my candidate did win this year.

    4. I know. Adam Kokesh is not even on the damn ballet.

    5. You know damned well Trump will protest the election results. And you know damned will Democrats will protest the election results. This country has become to tribal that it’s all about the tribe.

      And what’s the problem with “contesting the election results”? Why shouldn’t the legal system examine the election process, in particular in a hotly contested election?

      Don’t believe me? Just stop and think what YOU will do if your candidate will lose. What will you do if Trump loses.

      I have no particular love for Trump. But if this country goes substantially further to the left, I’ll likely retire somewhere else in the world, somewhere with lower taxes where the US can’t get at my money. If necessary, I’ll give up my US citizenship. And you can be certain that many of the people who President Harris wants to milk dry are going to do the same thing.

    6. Just to remind you – it was Hilary who has been crying for the last 3.5 years that the election was stolen from her. If Trump loses – so be it.

      1. If Biden wins, then the civil war goes into high gear. Our constitutional republic cannot survive what the progressives have planned.

        It’s going to become us or them.

  7. If you want schools to be open you want teachers to die, or at least to kill their parents. If you want election polls to be open, you want voters and poll workers to die. If you want all mail-in ballots this election, all good, because we need to free up some of that post office pension money.

    1. You have to admit that it is amazing how woke this virus is.

      – If you got to church you’re basically dead
      – If you go to a bar you’re doubly dead
      HOWEVER…
      – If you riot you’re good
      – If you got a restaurant and order a meal (I’ve been told that peanuts will not suffice) you’re good
      – If you go to a grocery story you’re completely fine

      1. Most people avoid riots…sensible people have avoided restaurants and bars. I’m on my church council, and we are remaining on line. Unlike Trump, we are not sacrificing lies for our warped and destructive political agenda.

        1. Unlike Trump, we are not sacrificing lies for our warped and destructive political agenda.

          Indeed: as you keep showing us, you stick firmly to your lies.

        2. Does it feel nice to have government cock in your mouth all of the time?

        3. “…Unlike Trump, we are not sacrificing lies for our warped and destructive political agenda.”

          No, you’re posting here to prove how stupid humans can be.

        4. I live in a county with over half a million residents. We have had at least limited openings of bars and restaurants for three months now. With no ill effect.

          But please Mike, continue your hysterical progtard propaganda. It’s all you j ow, and all you are capable of.

  8. Didn’t read the article, but is there any mention of the town in New Jersey where mail-in voter fraud was so bad that a judge ordered a redo for the last election?

    1. What do you think?

    2. Does this count?

      “President Donald Trump has alleged that the more widespread use of mail-in voting is ripe for fraud, but there is no evidence to support that claim”

      1. Yeah – I am not sure this is true. I was at the polls in PA in the spring and there were a LOT of problems. It may not have been fraud, it could have just been stupidity, but in a general election…it would have easily changed the outcome. So I strongly disagree with the statement.

    3. Local story.

    4. moonrocks there was also no mention of the 20 or so precincts that voted 110% for obama in not 1 but 2 presidential elections.

    5. How about the NY primary where they still don’t know who won…2 months later? But they will get their shit together when facing many times more votes…

  9. DeJoy is in a hard spot in part because the President put him there. President Trump is facing a tough election and rather than engage the voters he seems to be looking for excuses for the loss. If he is like Hillary Clinton and just wants to whine, so be it. The concern is that he is trying to delegitimize the vote and particularly mail in voting. The problem of the post office are legitimate but now is not the time to address them. Now is the time to focus on the task of getting mail through to show that we continue to have free and fair elections.

    Social Media

    1. Balko?

    2. There is no “problem” with it besides an onerous 2006 law to prefund pensions for an absurd length of time.

      It’s a SERVICE. Just like the military or anything else. We don’t judge services on the basis of profit- we judge them based on their efficiencies. Not to mention that before the 2006 law they even were turning a profit.

      1. Not according to politifacts and the USPS. The USPS has never ran a year on year profit since it was formed in 1971 and was no longer a cabinet level position. And not all the loss is attributed to their pension funding. In 2012, for instance, the USPS was $2.2 billion in the hole even before they paid their pension obligations (which were only mandated for 10 years starting in 2006, you do the math).

      2. “There is no “problem” with it besides an onerous 2006 law to prefund pensions for an absurd length of time.”

        Pulled that right out of your ass, didn’t you?

        1. According to wearingit, forcing an agency to account for all of it’s expenses is “onerous”. Or he is so ignorant of business and math that he is unaware that a promise to pay 50 years from now _is_ a current expense.

  10. Let’s say it again- USPS is a SERVICE. Do we say that the military “loses” 750 billion dollars a year?

    1. Well they do spend an inordinate amount of money.

      (The military)

    2. We do say “is FedEx cheaper”.

    3. The US military is a service organized to protect and defend the people of the US. The Postal Service is an even older bureaucracy created to allow the flow of written communications between the public. It visits every home and every business six days a week. No where in the Constitution does it say that these two government departments must operate at a profit. The waste, fraud, and inefficiency of DOD far exceeds the operating losses of the Post Office. The US Post Office is not a business and its losses are rather meaningless as it is a service provided everyone. If You don’t want the Postal Service change the Constitution you Libertarians.

      1. Uhm, no the Postal Service isn’t older than the military. And originally it wasn’t much of a bureaucracy. The President appointed postmasters who contracted people to carry and deliver mail. That was how the Postal Service existed for most of the first century and a half of the US. This is actually how mail delivery is still done in rural America. Rural route carriers are contracted individuals who use their private vehicles to deliver mail and pick up mail to this day. A lot of mail is also shipped via contracts with private airlines, rail systems, and shipping companies.
        As for the age of the US military vs the USPS, it really depends on how we define the USPS. Yes, prior to the Revolution the Continental Congress did appoint their own postmasters, to act as an alternative to the Royal Postmasters (some of them were one and the same) but they also instructed the colonies to begin forming militias at about the same time. If we are talking once the revolution actually started, the US Army was formed on June 14, 1775, the Navy on October 13, 1775 and the USMC on November 10, 1775. The official founding date of the US postmaster general was in July of 1775, so the Army is officially older than the USPS.
        If we include the the Royal Post and the Royal Militias (the US National Guard traces it’s history to the first authorized militia in Massachusetts) the first Royal Postmaster was appointed in Massachusetts (first in the English colonies period) in 1639, while the first militia was formed in December of 1636.
        As for Constitutional age, they are the same age,as the same article that allowed Congress to create postal roads and postmasters also directed Congress to provide for a Navy and Army. The Continental Army gave evolved into the US Army in 1783, however the first postmasters appointed under the Constitiuton wasn’t until 1794.
        So in every way you look at it, the USPS is younger than the Army.

        1. OK, you win. Big f**king deal!

          1. Well don’t give out false information. I’m sorry if history and facts don’t agree with your narratives.

          2. And as for wanting or not wanting the postal service, I think most libertarians would be okay with it going back to how it operated in the 18th and 19th century, and still does in rural America.

            1. Minus the tax payer subsidies they received before 1982.

      2. The post office is replaceable by a business, if not for laws that prevent private businesses from competing. The Army is not replaceable by a business – every nation that depended on mercenaries for it’s defense was either conquered by foreigners when the mercs ran away, or conquered by the mercs.

    4. There are several things wrong with your analogy. The most important is that the modern USPS was formed in 1971 and it was directed to be a self funding organization that derived it’s funding from postal stamps and package delivery. The US military has never charged for it’s service (it is paid for by taxes, but so was the USPS until 1971, and it continues to take tax money until 1982). The Postmaster General is no longer a cabinet level position, the SecDef is a cabinet level position. Now you can state Nixon was wrong to enact this rearrangement, but it is a false analogy to compare the two.

    5. Let’s say it again- USPS is a SERVICE.

      USPS is supposed to be self-financing.

      Furthermore, it (and the entire public sector) should be reformed to use 401k’s for retirement, rather than getting taxpayer-guaranteed pensions. When taking into account benefits, public sector employees are vastly overpaid and used for political gain by Democrats.

      Do we say that the military “loses” 750 billion dollars a year?

      I certainly say that.

  11. No back door Trump bash? No distortion? No omissions? No lies? What wrong with eric?

  12. The postal workers union has endorsed Biden. What a confidence builder.

    End Joe Biden’s racist Drug War.

    1. MS let me fix that for you;;;End Joe Biden;;; there.

  13. The post office, DeJoy said, is facing the prospect of a $9 billion shortfall this year alone—a huge total for an agency that is supposed to be self-sustaining.

    Pretty sure it isn’t in the Constitution that it needs to turn a profit.

    That said, it, Amtrak, and the TVA should be sold or closed.

    1. NO. The Postal Service, Amtrak, and the TVA should be fully funded. The 2017 tax legislation should be repealed–and the bloated defense budget significantly cut. We’d save whole lot more money that way–but the big defense corporations would lose out, so I doubt this will ever happen.

      1. NO. The Postal Service, Amtrak, and the TVA should be fully funded.

        The USPS wastes massive amounts of money on public pension obligations; eliminate those, and then eliminate many useless post offices, and it can be self-sustaining. That’s what “fully funded” means. What you want is corruption.

        As for Amtrak and the TVA, the federal government has no business funding those at all.

        and the bloated defense budget significantly cut

        Well, there’s something we can agree on. Good luck getting that past the Democrats who get a war boner every time someone looks at them the wrong way.

      2. midmike “but the big defense corporations ” are to quote someone “are working welfare”. It does however fund a huge amount of sustainable livings for a huge number of the population , both directly and indirectly, supporting many businesses and jobs that would not exist otherwise. Without them cities like Seattle, frisco, L.A., St Louis, Dallas/Ft Worth, Norfolk, Atlanta,Newport News etc would still be rural delivery mail users.

      3. “…The Postal Service, Amtrak, and the TVA should be fully funded…”

        You want ’em? YOU fund ’em.

  14. The US military is a service organized to protect and defend the people of the US. The Postal Service is an even older bureaucracy created to allow the flow of written communications between the public. It visits every home and every business six days a week. No where in the Constitution does it say that these two government departments must operate at a profit. The waste, fraud, and inefficiency of DOD far exceeds the operating losses of the Post Office. The US Post Office is not a business and its losses are rather meaningless as it is a service provided everyone. If You don’t want the Postal Service change the Constitution you Libertarians.

    1. You are 100% correct.

      1. No he isn’t. See above. The US Army is older than the USPS by every way you can measure it. Rather we trace it back to the start of the Revolution or the founding of the Royal Post and Royal Militias in the English Colonies. And the USPS wasn’t a bureaucracy until fairly recently. Nor do a vast number of Americans rely on postal employees for mail delivery, as all rural route carriers are actually contractors hired by the local Postmaters, which is actually how the USPS functioned primarily for a century and a half. Also, a good portion of USPS post is transported by contractors in private aviation, rail and shipping to this day.

        1. Hell, if we go post Revolution, the US Army was officially founded in October of 1784 (with the recognition that this was just a reforming of the Continental Army). It as extremely small, one regiment to guard the western frontier and a couple of garrison and logistical troops in the east. It was reformed into the Legion of the United States in 1792 (the first post Constitiuton postmasters weren’t appointed until 1794). There is in no universe that the USPS is a far older organization than the US Army.
          Even if we just count the appointment of Postmaster General vs Commander in Chief, Washington was appointed in June of 1775, the first US Postmaster General in July of 1775.
          As for Constitutional authorization to create a post and to create a military, both are powers granted by the same fucking article, Article 1, Section 8.

          1. It’s certainly much older than what we know as the us military today, not that which is older is relevant to anything except weird obsessions with American mythology. The point is it’s part of the DNA of the country, it’s in the constitution, so if constitutional libertarians have a problem with the post office, they should admit that the constitution is in no way a fully libertarian document.

            However the postal service works in practice, whether everyone involved gets a government check or whether some are contracted out by government, the central problem with privatization is that no for-profit entity necessarily has any incentive to provide the kind of universal scope of the postal service.

            One serves profit, one serves the public interest, and one supposes this huge example of why these things are not aligned is why free market ideologues and their corporate parasite buddies want to eliminate it.

            1. It is not older than the military as we know it today. And the Constitiuton argument is moot since article 1 section 8 established the power of Congress to fund both a military and the post office.
              As for your argument about the military as we know it today, that pre-dates the first world war. And the modern USPS, as we know it today, wasn’t created until 1971. Now, yes a form of both the military and the postal service have existed since 1775. I gave you all the relevant dates.
              Just out of curiosity, what do you consider the hallmark of the modern miliary, that didn’t exist in the 19th century? Or the early 20th century?

              1. You don’t seem to understand that I don’t care about this on at least two levels. Is the post office useful is a far more important question than whether it is constitutionally ordained, and since it is, whether it’s older than the military is not important at all. The military is only in this conversation because the commenter above was making an analogy.

                1. Then stop trying to argue it is older and Constitutionally mandated. For someone who doesn’t care about those things you sure bring them up a lot. And as for the commenters above he was wrong, I showed him he was wrong, and then you tried to argue he was right. I showed you you were wrong also, and then you claimed not to care. For someone who doesn’t care, you spent some energy that you could have used for arguing what you actually care about, in arguing something you claim not to care about

            2. It worked for a century and a half, and was considered reliable. Yes, they were for profit companies (in fact this is how Wells Fargo got it’s starts, delivering mail under government contract, in addition to the stage routes).
              This is the model, for profit companies would bid for contracts, and postmasters would award them. The for profit companies made a profit, and delivered a reliable service (Wells Fargo actually only got into banking because they were so reliable on delivering mail that people started trusting them to ship money, and this required them to store money, eventually people just began to have them store their money for them, in addition to shipping it).

              1. I’m glad we agree that massive infrastructure built by government makes modern capitalism possible, not to mention robust.

                1. No, it was the other way around. There was no massive infrastructure, and private industry created much of that infrastructure at the time.

                  1. Hopeless. Private industry did not build the post office or the federal highway system, two things absolutely vital to even having a modern economy and two things your philosophy would never let get off the ground.

                    1. If it wasn’t Tony, I’d think this was satire. But since it is Tony, it’s willful ignorance, if not outright lying.

                      Private contractors DID build the Interstate Highway system. Federal workers were never out there digging the roadbed or laying pavement. Government’s role was to take bids on the contracts, select the contractors, and pay the bills.

                      And others just explained how the post office originally depended on private contractors.

                2. I don’t even know how you could get that take from anything I wrote.

            3. The point is it’s part of the DNA of the country, it’s in the constitution, so if constitutional libertarians have a problem with the post office, they should admit that the constitution is in no way a fully libertarian document.

              That’s easy: I admit that the US Constitution is not a fully libertarian document.

              But the US Constitution is compatible with libertarian government; that is, it grants some powers to government, but it does not require government to exercise those power. We could have a fully libertarian government under the current Constitution.

              For example, Congress could choose to abolish the USPS tomorrow and that would be perfectly constitutional.

              1. Fun! How many other ways shall we eliminate aspects of modern civilization, even those explicitly called for in the constitution (it not technically “required”)? Just how miserable do we get before utopia is achieved?

                The constitution also plainly allows the robust activist federal system we have now, since we have it. Praise be the commerce clause.

    2. If You don’t want the Postal Service change the Constitution you Libertarians.

      The US Constitution empowers Congress “to establish Post Offices and post Roads”. It certainly does not require Congress to do so. Neither does it require “visiting every home and every business six days a week”, or making postal employees public servants, or giving them pension benefits.

      The Postal Service is an even older bureaucracy created to allow the flow of written communications between the public.

      A function that is clearly obsolete. Hence, USPS should be abolished altogether; this is therefore a power Congress can and should choose not to exercise.

    3. “its losses are rather meaningless”

      I don’t know… $9 billion dollars of losses in one year seems kind of meaningful. Even if it doesn’t need to be self-sustaining, it shouldn’t lose THAT much money.

  15. The Democrats’ argument that Trump is “killing the Postal Service” is a malicious misinterpretation of Trump’s unwillingness to sign the HEROES Act (a third Covid bill, written in June, that is not just a bailout for a lot of agencies but a Democratic Christmas wish list that no one in his right mind would want signed into law).

    The Postal Service is already supposed to be self-sustaining. The only help I would give it is to remove all regulation of the rates it charges, and in exchange I would legalize unlimited private competition with all of its services. Then if USPS can’t raise rates enough to pay its huge pension obligations, let it file Chapter 11 bankruptcy and shuck them just as any private company might do.

    1. Does it get to decide its strategy for funding pensions or should that remain in the hands of bad-faith politicians?

      1. In your assertion that the USPS problems is entirely the fault of the pension mandates:
        Not according to politifacts and the USPS. The USPS has never ran a year on year profit since it was formed in 1971 and was no longer a cabinet level position. And not all the loss is attributed to their pension funding. In 2012, for instance, the USPS was $2.2 billion in the hole even before they paid their pension obligations (which were only mandated for 10 years starting in 2006, you do the math).

        1. “In the hole.”

          What does that mean? You meant it didn’t make a profit? What other fundamental government services have to make a monetary profit? Other ones, like the military, are things we just pay for because we want them. You don’t buy a futon expecting it to serve as a place for friends to crash and to generate revenue.

          The pension requirement was an accelerant to the costs so that Republicans would have the excuse to get rid of a popular government program. It’s what they’ve done over and over when they couldn’t just get the democratic support to kill something. Given their astounding profligacy, which they’ve somehow managed to couple with a perception of frugality, it might make you wonder if they’re trying the strategy on the government as a whole. And wouldn’t you just like that.

          1. Meaning it loses money with or without the pension obligations and this is bad for a self funded program.

            1. “Meaning it loses money with or without” Not unlike EVERY democrat run government office.!!

            2. So we get rid of the post office with no plan to replace it just because it fails to be fully self-funded? Isn’t the simplest solution to let it actually work like a business in one way: let it raise its prices?

              1. “…Isn’t the simplest solution to let it actually work like a business in one way: let it raise its prices?”

                AMAZING!
                A post which is honest and makes a workable proposal! Unfortunately, unlike most gov’t ‘services’, this one has competition, and if USPS prices were raised high enough to support the bureaucracy, Red Ex and UPS would eat it alive.
                So, addressing your (dishonest) first sentence; the ‘replacement’ is UPS/FedEx/DHL and every other for-profit delivery service.

      2. Does it get to decide its strategy for funding pensions or should that remain in the hands of bad-faith politicians?

        Postal pensions should be abolished for new workers; there is no reason USPS workers should receive better benefits than private sector workers.

        And the USPS should not get to decide pensions for its workers as long as tax payers have to pay for it.

        1. Why does your political and economic philosophy require every person who’s not wealthy to suffer?

          1. Why do you constantly post lies?

    2. The Postal Service is not a private company. It is a PUBLIC SERVICE ORGANIZATION, and should not be expected to make money, or otherwise operate like a business. Instead, it should be run so that it provides maximum service to the citizens, including to those in less populated or prosperous areas.
      We could have a lot more money by repealing the reckless and foolhardy 2017 tax legislation and cutting the bloated and out of control defense budget.

      1. As someone who lives in a far less populous area, the people who deliver my mail aren’t postal workers. Never have been. The US could easily contract out mail delivery (they did for most of the 19th century and they still do on rural America).

      2. “We could have a lot more money…….”

        It’s not your money.

  16. Did DeJoy ask for more money for the post office? Seems like a logical thing to do if the problem is a budget shortfall. Especially ones caused by politicians deliberately.

    I didn’t catch the hearing. Was his tone much like that of this article, dire warnings of circumstances that may force us to destroy a government program beloved by everyone but a few rightwing libertarian cranks and some corporate interests (like DeJoys’s)?

    1. Loved by everyone? Citation please. As for the budget shortfall, they were given a ten billion dollar loan just recently. And since 1971 they are supposed to be self funding.

      1. Oh and BTW both Dejoy and Trump did say last week they were open to some more funding, but Pelosi turned them down because they asked for less than what she demanded they take. It was still in the hundreds of billions, and if you weren’t aware, the US Government has borrowed more than 100% of our GDP this year.

        1. So basically you are asking the federal government to borrow more money, to loan the the USPS.

          1. And don’t try the just tax the rich, because even if we took away all the millionaires and billionaires assets, it would barely cover what Pelosi is proposing we give to the USPS.

            1. Taxing the rich properly would do a lot more than that. They profit the most from this system, they should be paying to sustain it.

              1. They profit the most from this system,

                They do.

                they should be paying to sustain it.

                They are: via capital investments. What they don’t profit from is government spending (except for investors in companies like Solyndra, of course).

                Taxing the rich properly would do a lot more than that.

                Yeah, it would cause the rich to leave, leaving the US with a smaller tax base and less capital investment.

              2. Yes, it would destroy the economy as investments in startups and small businesses vanishes. Hell, then no one can afford to send letters and it won’t matter if the USPS works or not.

              3. You are obsessed with other people’s money.

                God damn, you ugly.

          2. We could probably cancel a fighter jet or two.

            1. Not even fucking close. The costliest fight aircraft currently in production is the F-35C, at $122.8 million dollars. Pelosi is talking over $300 billion in funding for the USPS.

              1. Cancel a tax cut or two.

                1. YOU pay for it.

    2. I would MUCH rather see my tax dollars support the Postal Service than big oil and other corporate interests. Fund the Postal Service, and eliminate the tax breaks for call corporations and individuals making over $250,000 a year.

      1. Since you are so eager to enslave your fellow citizens for half their working time, why not extend that principle the other way: everybody making less than $250000/year (I assume that includes you) is obligated to work for four hours a day in public service. You could be delivering mail, picking up trash, picking up chamber pots in hospitals, etc. How about it?

      2. No one can be this economically illiterate can they? You have to be a parody, right?

        1. AOC _is_ that economically illiterate – and she has a degree in economics. Never underestimate the mind-rotting capacity of leftism (and other religions).

      3. and do away with deductions for home interest and childrens deductions and funding for schools out of property taxes and sales taxes and VATs and excise and luxury taxes. just the school taxes and childrens deductions would fund things and solve the over population too.

  17. USPS needs more money? Simple solution – raise rates to $1.00 per letter . Raise rates for businesses by a similar amount. Wanna vote by mail ? It will cost you a dollar.

    1. They’d like to be able to do that but congress sets rates.

    2. USPS needs more money ? Simple. Get rid of the tax breaks for businesses and big oil, and give the Postal Service and other services the money it need to perform its services properly.

      1. USPS needs to lower labor costs? Simple: require unproductive, low wage workers like yourself to perform public service for 10-20h/week.

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  19. Congress sets the postal rates, not he Post Office. That is why they lose money every year. UPS, FedEx, and Amazon all ship through the Post Office because the rates are set so artificially low (the government subsidizing billionaires once again). Let the Post Office determine their own rates (and pension structure which Congress also sets) and see if it survives and prospers or goes under. Right now it is all political manipulation.

  20. The Postal Service will survive just fine, as long as it gets proper funding and a real manager, instead of a Trump crony who is enabling Trump’s attempt to steal the election from the American people.
    Like other government services, the Post Office is not supposed to make money, and should not be expected to do so, or managed in such a fashion. It is not a “business.” Its primary function is to provide a vital service. What we need to do is start funding services like this adequately, and repeal the 2017 tax legislation that gave the rich undeserved and unnecessary tax breaks.

  21. So the USPS/congress can’t figure out how to make money in an era where stores can’t stay open because Amazon can ship you pretty much anything you want. And now at a time when no one wants to leave their house and prefers online shopping.
    The lefts answer: give them more money.
    Do we expect a different out come with a cash infusion?

    1. Don’t forget the irs took over a whore house that had been open for close to a 100 years in Nevada and went bankrupt selling booze and sex in less than 2 years.

    2. Actually it’s Amazon and UPS that gets untold amounts of subsidy because they are allowed to use the cheap tax-funded post office to supplement their infrastructures.

      Congress actively prevents the postal service from making money because of its refusal to let them raise their own prices and their requirements on super long term pension funding. If you are going to bitch that it’s not acting like a business, let it act more like a business. Not that it should necessarily have anything to do with acting like a business, since it’s a public service we pay for.

      1. So then congress should get out of the way and let the USPS act like a business because they have the infrastructure in place to be profitable, a profit that we as citizens would benefit from?!
        Why care whether the USPS is a business or a service. Seems like a service to us would be to stop shoveling money at the USPS.

        1. You and the 9% of the population who agree with you are welcome to lobby Congress.

          1. You keep saying the post office is a vital service. It is not. I haven’t used the post office more then 1 or 2 times in 20 years. I get nothing important mailed to me ever, and basically just throw all the junk in my mailbox away when I bother to even look in there. it’s an outdated and unnecessary service as it is presently set up.

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  23. I don’t want the Postal Service to survive.

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