Portland Protests

What It's Like To Work in the Portland Jail During the George Floyd Protests

The federal police presence in Portland has enraged demonstrators. It's also taken pressure off the local justice center.

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On the first night of large-scale protests in Portland, Oregon, over the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis, Jennifer Styles (who we granted anonymity so that she could speak freely about the situation at her workplace) was working the graveyard shift at the Multnomah County Justice Center, which houses the headquarters of the Portland Police Bureau and one of the city's two county jails. It was May 29 and the 28-year veteran of law enforcement was alone in the basement's booking and reception area when the fire alarms started going off.

Not being able to see outside, Styles switched on the news. The front of the Justice Center was on fire, a fact confirmed when friends immediately started to text, asking about her safety. By then smoke was pumping through the building's ventilation system.

"I was in a secure part of the jail but I had civilian co-workers I was talking to in another area that was not secure," she says, including people who worked as nurses and counselors and support staff for the jail. "Those people are not trained on confrontation. They're not trained on how to deescalate. They're not trained on how to fight people and protect themselves."

Styles stayed on the phone with civilian staff, working out what to tell them if they needed to escape, weighing the possibility that running into a mass of the people attacking the jail would put them in additional danger. Then Styles heard the sound of breaking glass: the Justice Center's big first floor windows were coming down. 

"You could hear the glass cracking and shattering," she says. "At that point, the rioters were in." 

Alone in the basement, Styles listened to what was happening overhead. "You could hear [rioters] throwing stuff. They were tipping over all the copiers. They were picking up computers and throwing them across the room," she says. "And you could hear yelling, and it was very hard to distinguish if the yelling was from staff or if it was the rioters."

She considered whether her coworkers were being beaten. They were not. That first night, they made it to the basement, where, until the ventilation system reversed, "we all got to breathe in toxic fumes," she says. "The next week, they set dumpsters on fire, so then we got to inhale and have burning lungs from construction dumpsters."

Such was the determination and demonstrativeness of Portland protesters that they continued to direct rage at the Justice Center for weeks, ripping down temporary fencing, sandbagging doors, and shooting fireworks inside. 

Then, on June 26 Trump signed an executive order to protect national monuments and federal buildings. Suddenly, the protesters had a new target: the Mark O. Hatfield United States Courthouse, directly north of the Justice Center. 

The presence of federal law enforcement has been widely decried by local and state officials, and understood to have only escalated tensions between law enforcement and citizenry. However, it's also given those who want to commit violence against a symbol an even bigger one, which has conversely taken pressure off the Justice Center.

"Up until the feds showed up, it didn't feel like anybody cared," says Styles. "Most staff felt like we were left out to be eaten, because we never knew when the politicians were going to say, 'You know what? You're all on your own.' That's what it's felt like, like [Portland Mayor Ted] Wheeler and [Oregon Governor Kate] Brown have completely hung us out to dry. They're more and more anti-police. They're basically tying [the hands] of all the tactical teams, as to what they're allowed to do to protect themselves and to protect us. But you know, there's no rationale to, 'Hey, go ahead and spend millions of dollars destroying these buildings, while blocking human beings inside and setting things on fire so they potentially can't escape.'"

While Styles might feel more secure with the arrival of federal police, the consensus in the city is that federal forces have served only to embolden peaceful protestors who, if they did not before feel sympathy for the more violent factions among them, do now. They're appalled at the violence federal agents are leveling at people, at the lack of accountability, at the rank overreaction. 

Styles does not see it this way. She thinks those committing violence have been allowed to get away with attacking buildings and monuments because they've become accustomed to a police force that has been told not to arrest protestors, the definition of which refracts depending on where you stand on the political spectrum.

"We hear on a regular basis, 'We're just protesting! We haven't done anything criminal; we're not doing anything violent,'" she says. "Tearing apart all the fencing, blocking people—mothers, fathers, husbands, whatever—in a building and then trying to either smoke us out or set us on fire? And all they're going to get is a slap on the wrist. Their lives and their rights are more valuable than ours."

As far as Styles can tell, there are two types of people attacking the buildings every night: committed radicals, and assorted hooligans.

"The fact is that these people, the agitators, are very organized," she says. "You catch them at night live-streaming on either Twitch or YouTube or Periscope, and you can hear them talking about what tools they need to bring the next night so they can dismantle this or that block and make it harder for the officers to get out."

They are also getting bolder, staging people at the Justice Center's parking ramp, writing down or taking photos of staff license plates and, via DMV records, posting employees' home addresses, she says. 

"All I can do is put on my bright lights and hope they cannot see it," says Styles.

The attacks have destroyed all of the Justice Center's street level windows, and the office on the first floor had to be gutted. Half the staff has relocated to the other county jail (which has thus far escaped destruction), while those who remain at the Justice Center learn to navigate the nightly tensions.

It's not for everyone. 

"It takes a psychological toll, when we are told on a daily basis that we should all die, that everybody hates us," says Styles. "We're grown adults, but when you start hearing that on a regular basis, and you see the news that we should be defunded and all cops are bastards and all pigs should die, you get to the point where officers are quitting and resigning and retiring early."

Styles is staying. She's set to retire in two years, and also, she likes her job, albeit it requires her to "hear stories of horrific things" that people do to each other.

"I have to talk to these people who have committed the crimes, and they have no concern over other human beings," she says. "And then I see all these people out here demolishing our building and wanting to kill officers. And it's the same thing; they have no concern over human life. How is that any different?"

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  1. Finally some reporting on the ground. But then reason mucks it up by calling violent rioters peaceful protesters. Once again your commentary from far away is less useful than those who witness it directly.

    1. “Finally some reporting on the ground.”

      The thing is, the Justice Center jail isn’t at ground level.

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          1. Your nozzle is leaking, douche.

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      1. What the fuck?

      2. If they light the building on fire at the bottom floor is it still safe to be on the top floor? Maybe they can use their trump issued russian supplied jetpacks to escape from the roof.

        Dumbfuck

    2. “the consensus in the city is that federal forces have served only to embolden *peaceful protestors* who, if they did not before feel sympathy for *the more violent factions among them*, do now. ”

      I share the frustration over both sides’ conflation of all involved into either “peaceful protesters” or “violent anarchists”, but this sentence is pretty clearly distinguishing that the two are not the same thing and that the previously peaceful component are being pushed to sympathize or act with the radical side by Federal involvement.

      1. Also it is the city consensus that is defining them as peaceful protesters not Reason. I think the sentence is not well worded unless they’ve down a poll of the citizenry, it should probably read “the consensus of city officials”.

      2. go review Portland’s history of such violence, destructiln anarchy, over the past five years. This is no different, except those who are funding it are keeping the money faucet turned on wide open. I am near enough to Portland, and spend enough time there, and know dozens who live/work there and have for years. What is happening NOW is no new thing, its been “the Portland Way” for at least five years. Feds shold have gotten involved at least two years ago.

        Find out what happened to the family run Broadway Toyota Deaership in the wake of the “Hand Up Don’t shoot” lie’fest. Sick. Most insurance policies do nt pay for damages due to riot, insurrection civil disturbance. And that was only ONE such business destroyed in the weeks of mayhem then.

        Arson is the crime of deliberatley setting a fire to a BUILDING. It is a felony crime. If the building ins occupied, the crime and punishment get far bigger. This article described a clear case of felony attempted urder via arson. WHERE were Portland’s Finest? If those clowns were trying to burn down the houses of any of those PPB officers, whether they were inside or not, there WOLD have been arrests.

        The Feds showing up now is NOT what is stirring the pot. What is stirring the pot is that SOMEONE is taking actioin to end it. ARrests MUST be made, charges MUST be filedperpos MUST be sentenced. Else we are all down in the basement waiting for some freaks like these to come along and incinerate us all.

        Since Wheeler’s gutless doing of nothing, or worse (I am now convinced he WANTS to tear down society as we know it. That makes him a subversive and a traitor. Find your COnstitution and read the definintiono of TREASON, the onl crime named and described in that document. Wheeler has stood by, his hands in his pockets, TOLD the police to stand down and allow this to happen. Feds have naught to do with this. They are on being sent in as a last-ditch-but-one attempt to end the destruction. The next step is for FedGov to step up to the place and DO what the Constitutoin assignes them to do in cases of riot or insurrection. I’ll bet you could find a few illegal aliens amongst the actors, that would raise it up to “foreign invasion” level. Yes, deploy military ,give them ROE that will alow them to END this. else we are no longer a nation, we are Lord of the Flies.

        No thanks.

        1. “go review Portland’s history of such violence, destructiln anarchy, over the past five years.”
          There’s a pretty substantial history of troublemakers coming to Portland from other places, looking for trouble. See, e.g. Jeremy Christian.

          ” Yes, deploy military ,give them ROE that will alow them to END this. else we are no longer a nation, we are Lord of the Flies.

          No thanks.”

          Pick a side, yes or no, and stay with it.

      3. When you show up to “protest” after 7 weeks of every “protest” becoming a riot, you’ve decided to participate in a riot, and have already joined up with the radical “faction” who you’ve been knowingly aiding every time you’ve shown up to “protest”

      4. The Federal Government should bow to the wishes of the mob and leave their people and properties at the mercy of the violent Marxist/anarchist to do as they please. That is the idea of justice and law and order of todays lefty. Disgusting!

    3. Yeh, I don’t get it. From the footage I’ve seen, it looks like a damn war zone. It’s actually pissing me off.

  2. Jennifer Styles (who we granted anonymity so that she could speak freely about the situation at her workplace)

    Hey, at least they didn’t include her address.

    1. Occupation, gender, age, 2 years to retirement …

      I wonder how much of that is made up and how much is as fake as the author wants us to think the name is.

      1. Her real name is Haven Monahan.

  3. “Those people are not trained on confrontation. They’re not trained on how to deescalate. They’re not trained on how to fight people and protect themselves.”

    the good news is, neither are the protesters.

    1. Maybe the protesters aren’t, but the rioters are.

      1. Who’s training rioters?

        1. How much training does it take to throw a brick? Its not like it needs to be a tight spiral or break to the lower outside corner.

          1. How much training does it take to tell the difference between training in de-escalation and training to throw a brick?

            1. If you can dodge a brick, you can dodge a ball….

              1. If you can dodge a question, you can dodge a bullet.

                1. We’ll give that one a try with you.

                  Then the rest of us will watch Priject Veritas videos while your worthless carcass bleeds out

          1. Don’t think there are many people in Portland, who’ve recently been in Syria. Not many direct flights available.

        2. Antifa, BLM, and Jojn Brown Gun Club, that’s who is training the rioters.

    2. “the good news is, neither are the protesters.”

      They aren’t protestors, they are rioteers. And when they out number you 2 or 3 to one it doesn’t matter. They are going to do what they want.

  4. The Justice Center jail is on the top floors of a downtown Portland skyscraper. They’re literally above the fray in the streets. The only way to get there is by a limited-access elevator, Unless Spider-Man joins the rioting, there’s nothing to fear in the Justice Center jail.

    1. “It was May 29 and the 28-year veteran of law enforcement was alone in the basement’s booking and reception area when the fire alarms started going off.”

      Idiot.

      1. Hey! schools have been shut down, you can’t expect someone to be able to read!

        1. If you’d like to rely on that, I can give you a pass.

          1. You have some inside dope huh? Are you going to bogart that?

      2. I’ve been there. You?

        1. No. Were you in the booking and reception area? Was it in the basement?

          1. As I described elsewhere, they transfer prisoners in and out through the basement. It’s not open to the public. I worked for a different agency, which coordinated with PPB, which doesn’t run the jail, but does interact with them. If you need to talk to somebody who’s at the JC transferring a prisoner, you wait outside.

            1. JC? PPB? I’ll bet you know what these mean.

              1. you win that bet!
                PPB= Portland Police Bureau
                JC = Justice Center

      1. I hail from a small town in the Northwest, and the Justice Center jail is upstairs. They bring prisoners in and out via an elevator in the sidewalk. then transfer to another elevator bank which is not open to the public for the ride upstairs.

          1. Your insight is as keen as your intellect.

            1. Somehow this guy hasn’t realized everyone can see he’s the idiot. Impressive, James.

              1. Somehow you imagine you’re not an idiot. Not impressive.

        1. “which is not open to the public for the ride upstairs.”

          Not open to the public how, exactly? Do you mean there is some stern person who will tell you “no” (which doesn’t seem to be very effective against rioters) or that there is no physical access that can be achieved even with the help of a bolt cutter, and crowbar and/or a sledgehammer? In this context, that is what “not open to the public” would actually mean.

          1. You need the keyfob to even get the elevator to work. So if you had a jackhammer and plenty of time, you could make unauthorized entrance. It’s a JAIL, after all. It’s designed so that criminals can’t help their confederates leave early. When they’re moving prisoners, they have armed officers on scene, but apparently not when there are rioters nearby.

      2. In your photo (thanks for that), I see broken (glass) windows on what Europeans would call the First Floor.
        Is Portland in Europe?

    2. The Justice Center jail is on the top floors of a downtown Portland skyscraper.

      Alone in the basement, Styles listened to what was happening overhead. “You could hear [rioters] throwing stuff. They were tipping over all the copiers. They were picking up computers and throwing them across the room,” she says.

      So when the rioters broke into the *first floor* and started destroying stuff, they were destroying shit that had fuck all to do with the county jail. So not only are they a bunch of violent, barely trained apes, they’re also incompetent fuck wits.

      1. ” not only are they a bunch of violent, barely trained apes, they’re also incompetent fuck wits.”

        But not a threat. Unless you are stupid enough to go up to the first floor and lecture them about being violent, barely trained apes.
        And again the question, who is training the rioters?

    3. They had smoke coming through the building, and at least one level of security had to be breached for people to be actively trashing the building.

      Saying that “There is nothing to fear” is objectively absurd. If nothing else, worried that the building would burn down around them is quite reasonable given the situation, where several police stations actually were burned to the ground and bombs were being actively used against the building.

      1. Try looking it up in Google street view before you start talking about burning the building down.

  5. We all know cops will shoot people over the slightest feeling of danger even shoot people in the back running away but why won’t they won’t shoot rock and bottle throwers who could actually hurt them?

    1. Shooting AT them is not the same thing as hitting what they shoot at.

      1. Yeah, but at this point, as much as I am an advocate for real consequences for officers who use excessive force, it’s maybe time they start resorting to lethal force against the rioters.

    2. They think their bosses will throw them in jail if they do, Ice. A la the Brooks shooting in Atlanta. Much easier to smile and wave. Or duck and run, as the case may be.

  6. Alone in the basement, Styles listened to what was happening overhead. “You could hear [rioters] throwing stuff. They were tipping over all the copiers. They were picking up computers and throwing them across the room,” she says. “And you could hear yelling, and it was very hard to distinguish if the yelling was from staff or if it was the rioters.”

    As I bite my lip and refrain from making mere snarky comments (and this is a target-rich environment)… think about this description and situation for a moment. Rioters (aka peaceful protesters) have already demonstrated their ability and willingness to set entire city blocks on fire. And while some people roll their eyes and wonder why I’m so concerned with “Target’s Inventory”, my concern has been this: Do the peaceful protesters do a full building and security walk-through before torching a building? Do they do a room-by-room security check, while warning any potential people who may possibly be hidden from the destruction that the fires will begin in ‘x’ minutes? Or once they have access through the street-facing facade, do they start lighting fires?

    Then, on June 26 Trump signed an executive order to protect national monuments and federal buildings. Suddenly, the protesters had a new target: the Mark O. Hatfield United States Courthouse, directly north of the Justice Center.

    This is an important detail that should not be overlooked. The rage, we are told, is solely because of Trump’s Occupying Army. No, it was factor-11 rage before Trump’s army showed up, they just pivoted to a new target.

    I agree with the protesters on one front: Fuck Ted Wheeler. I hope he is personally sued by everyone he’s put in danger. And I hope he is able to deflect those suits with qualified immunity.

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    2. “Do the peaceful protesters do a full building and security walk-through before torching a building? Do they do a room-by-room security check, while warning any potential people who may possibly be hidden from the destruction that the fires will begin in ‘x’ minutes? Or once they have access through the street-facing facade, do they start lighting fires?”

      This is an important point. Arson is an incredibly serious crime and people die in fires all the time. You may have seen the news that a charred body was discovered in one of the burned out buildings in Minneapolis. Here is the link: https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending/burned-body-found-rubble-minneapolis-pawnshop-torched-during-george-floyd-protests-police-say/DX47JJVLCFBFLAO5P2PL7MGFXA/

      1. No, I didn’t see that, and I was thinking how lucky the peaceful protesters were that no one had been killed in any of the fires.

      2. KIRO is in Seattle. Why are you citing a TV station in Seattle for something you allege happened in Minnesota?

        1. Are you claiming it’s incorrect?

          1. “Are you claiming it’s incorrect?”

            Where did you get that from? Are you claiming it’s in Latin?

            1. If you bothered to read the article, you would find links to at least 2 other sources. Do the New York Times and Star Tribune (a MN paper) count as valid sources. I am not even sure why you say this:

              “Why are you citing a TV station in Seattle for something you allege happened in Minnesota?”

              What relevance is that to the story? As Ben of Houston asks, do you think the story is incorrect? If so why?

              1. If I cared what you thought, I’d have addressed something you said. Instead…

                1. I think you may be a bot. You did address my comment – I was the person that posted the link to KIRO. Why do I even bother?

  7. Ted Wheeler found out last night that the mob doesn’t differentiate between those who enable them and those they are “protesting”. I wonder how long until he follows the Seattle Mayor in reversing his enabling?

    1. After the revolution, the first group against the wall are the current rulers.
      Then the educated, then the ones with any money, then the ones somebody didn’t like and ratted out.
      The we have peace in our time.
      No food, no electricity, no jobs, but peace. Or else!

      1. The pattern never breaks, but it makes you wonder why they never learn from the past and continue to enable this behavior?

      2. You missed one group – the revolutionaries, who upon completion, are no longer useful.

      3. No food, no electricity, no jobs

        But we’ll all be in the same boat, right (or at least those of us who have survived)? Equality, FTW!

  8. For the most part this was an excellent article.

    But this part is awful:

    “While Styles might feel more secure with the arrival of federal police, the consensus in the city is that federal forces have served only to embolden peaceful protestors who”

    You just spent two paragraphs detailing the actions of rioters. These weren’t peaceful protestors. Since you have undeniable evidence (the facility has been trashed), you should clearly point out how the “consensus” is wrong.

    1. People in Portland have no respect for federal law enforcement. They remember a couple of years ago when those other peaceful protesters took over the duck refuge out in the desert part of Oregon.

      1. In contrast to the ‘respect’ they showed the local detention center???

        Boy, you sure have your finger on the pulse of Portland.

        1. “you sure have your finger on the pulse of Portland.”

          Lived there for a long time. But now I live in another state.

          1. You know we have a commenter here, who is famous for having multiple sock puppets.

            And also for being obviously on the spectrum.

      2. As far as I can tell, the Bundy group actually was peaceful. No vandalism, no molotov cocktails, no mask thugs beating people up. The place wasn’t a ruin when they left. In fact, it seems to me the only real violence was the murder of LaVoy Finicum whose skin color was not the right shade to matter to the usual suspects. Since he had the wrong skin color and was “the enemy”, the usual progressive crowd just cheered it on.

        1. You guys are the ones calling for pulling out the stops to respond to citizen resistance of federal power. It’s not on-brand, to be sure, but picking and choosing which people get your support based on what color their skin is, that’s pretty on-brand.

          1. They aren’t resisting federal power. They are destroying federal property to force their own version of federal power on others.

            1. *They* who? Do you even care? What percentage of the protesters are engaged in vandalism, do you think?

              Meanwhile what percentage of presidents are sending illegal goon squads out to rough up and collectively punish protesters with no probable cause?

              1. All the protesters engaged in vandalism are engaged in vandalism.

                1. conversely, all the protesters not engaged in vandalism are engaged in no vandalism.

                  1. When OJ didn’t murder, he wasn’t a murderer.

                  2. Nope.
                    Literally ALL the “protesters” are engaged in vandalism at this point.
                    Their presence makes it possible, and they know it

            2. I thought people here knew not to engage Tony. He has a bluetooth anal tickler device that gives him a little pleasure every time someone replies to his comments. He has to change the batteries every couple hours.

              1. You have an unusually detailed knowledge of this person’s anal region.

                1. It was revealed 3 years ago. A wise and reasoned contributor warned us not to feed the trolls. He mentioned Tony by name and included this choice nugget:

                  “Tony has an unusual medical disorder called Provokateurfreude. He gets genuine sexual pleasure from engaging with a community that thinks very little of his intellect or political leanings. Time and time again his psychologist tells him he should move his online activity to a different site, perhaps the comments section on Jezebel or Salon. He steadfastly refuses to listen.”

                  1. You have an unusual degree of knowledge of the sexual interests of other people. How long have you been a voyeur?

                    1. I tire of your replies. Put some more effort in next time if you expect a spirited engagement.

                  2. Tony at least has personality.
                    Better than a drone like pollock

          2. You mean the off white color of the Bundy group vs. the eggshell white of the protesters?

        2. “As far as I can tell, the Bundy group actually was peaceful.”

          In the sense that they were full of threats, but not action.

          “No vandalism”

          Unless you count all the vandalism.

          “In fact, it seems to me the only real violence was the murder of LaVoy Finicum”

          Dude took his guns to a gunfight and miscalculated his odds of survival.

      3. That’s cool.
        No one has any respect for Portlandiars

    2. I think allowing Ms Styles the opportunity to refute that consensus was a more powerful rebuke then anything coming from a journalist.

    3. While Styles might feel more secure with the arrival of federal police, the consensus in the city is that federal forces have served only to embolden peaceful protestors who, if they did not before feel sympathy for the more violent factions among them, do now.

      The rest of the sentence adds useful context. There’s two groups “peaceful protestors” and “the more violent factions among them” and the author is trying to say that the fed’s actions have created some sympathy on the part of the protestors who actually are trying to peacefully assemble towards the rioters. Admittedly it’s not the most well written sentence ever, so confusion is understandable.

      Also, I would have preferred to see the “the more violent factions among them” actually referred to as what they are: violent rioters, but baby steps I guess.

  9. Trump can’t win. They have him in a perpetual ‘damned if you, damned if you don’t’ death lock.

    These are rioters and they’re ready to inflict physical harm and property damage on a city. Stop characterizing them as damn ‘peaceful protestors’. It’s starting to get a creepy commie vibe to it on a libertarian site.

    https://twitter.com/AP_Scoop/status/1285676105328783360

    1. There does seem to be a tendency to confuse rioting and protesting, among commenters of all political persuasions. Although both rioters and protesters are often in the same places, they are not interchangeable.

  10. A reasonable and rationally logical person would clearly see that what’s going on in Portland has nothing to do with George Floyd. The headline is quite disingenuous.

  11. I believe the use in the article of the word “protester” to describe these people does a disservice to actual protesters. Otherwise, I appreciate the work Rommelman does here.

  12. The presence of federal law enforcement has been widely decried by local and state officials,

    I know what those inept bunglers say, let’s hear from property owners who are affected by the arson and vandalism.

    … and understood to have only escalated tensions between law enforcement and citizenry.

    Arsonists and vandals are now ‘citizens’? Interesting.

    However, it’s also given those who want to commit violence against a symbol an even bigger one,…

    Those who want to commit violence are not people whose considerations should be listened to. And referring to a building as a ‘symbol’ doesn’t change the fact that it is property.

    … which has conversely taken pressure off the Justice Center.

    If its just a symbol, what’s the big deal? No one gets hurt and nothing gets damaged and there’s no money needed to repair a symbol, right?

    I still appreciate this post more than I don’t, that paragraph gave me a rash.

    And btw:

    “Up until the feds showed up, it didn’t feel like anybody cared,” says Styles.

    They didn’t. They don’t. Understand that they aren’t your friend, they don’t like you, and they don’t have your best interests at heart.

    1. “Arsonists and vandals are now ‘citizens’? Interesting.”

      Well, they’ve been citizens all along.

  13. Libertarians should be near the end of the line of people lining up to protect society from people resisting government force. It was supposed to be kind of your thing.

    It is, I agree, much easier to sip Big Gulp from your easy chair and just vote Republican.

    1. They aren’t resisting government, they are trying to force their version of government on others, as Ted Wheeler found out last night. But you don’t understand nuance, just generalized talking points.

      1. If you want to put it that way, sure, they want a different regime than the one that exists. Isn’t that what you want too? What everyone with any political belief wants?

        1. We’re against government unless we get to run it.

          They support the rights of the states to do things differently from the federal government, unless they try to use those rights to do things they don’t want.

          They campaign against the government so that if they win they can show you how bad the government is.

          1. Yes, misrepresent what I actually stated. Because you can’t argue with what I stated so you have to argue a caricature.

            1. I don’t recall quoting you or referring to you in any way.. So if the shoe fits, wear it.

        2. “If you want to put it that way, sure, they want a different regime than the one that exists”

          So you admit they want a regime.

        3. The difference is I am not terrozing citizens or using violence to gain it. Nor am I rioting to gain it. And as for my politics, I value individual liberty and right up until your violate someone else’s rights, property etc. Especially if you use violence to gain your power. It really isn’t hard to understand the difference.

          1. “The difference is I am not terrozing citizens or using violence to gain it.”

            No, that’s Trump, whose actions you support.

          2. “The difference is I am not terrozing citizens or using violence to gain it. Nor am I rioting to gain it. ”

            All we have for that is your word for it, though. Was someone terrozing you? Or using violence to gain it?

        4. So abandoning that “democratic process” stuff and just going for naked force is something I should risk my life to defend?

          1. No you should not defend the actions of Trump and his goon squad.

            (Psst, people with the full force of the US government at their disposal don’t need to engage in street protests to get what they want.)

            You are not going to risk your life to defend any principle, because you have no principles other than Team Red Must Win.

            1. I have never defended the actions of Trump and his goon squad. I do remind you that I’ve warned you for years that this would happen. You dismissed it. You built a goon squad and gave it to Trump, and now you’re shocked that he’s using it.

              As far as what I would risk my life for, you’ve no fucking idea. I risked my life for principle when you were still sitting in your own shit. I won’t risk it so that you can live in your socialist workers utopia.

              1. Bush’s terrible post-9/11 power grab is responsible for this. This was of course the very thing civil libertarians warned about (an antiterrorism law being used against nonterrorists). So you and I were warning everyone this could happen, yet you’re all up in my shit.

                1. Yea, Waco and Ruby Ridge totes never happened

    2. Why would I go help the very people who until it was their ass in a sling, have advocated my entire life for suppression of the very same right they now wish me to exercise in their defense?

      I’ll readily point out that the feds are acting poorly here, but I’m not going to grab my gun on behalf of those clowns.

      1. “I’ll readily point out that the feds are acting poorly here, but I’m not going to grab my gun on behalf of those clowns.”

        I’ll bet there’s support for this choice from all corners.

    3. No it’s much harder for me to watch this and call for the feds to involve themselves in it because it is against my nature. But I will knowing that people’s civil rights are being violated by rioters and the riots only outcome will be more misery for those who are the most vulnerable within our society.

      You see I’m from outside Baltimore, my mother grew up in the city, and to this day you can still see the damage done by the 68 riots. People fled the city, leaving a hole in the tax base and cutting off capital to the locals right when the city needed re-investment the most with the slowing down of steel and ship manufacturing. Fuck rioters.

      1. “You see I’m from outside Baltimore, my mother grew up in the city, and to this day you can still see the damage done by the 68 riots. People fled the city”

        Portland has had significant in-migration for a decade or so, so the locals might welcome some decrease in people coming from other places to live there and drive up the rental prices.

  14. Just wondering: have the stories about “innocent people being disappeared by federal officers” been confirmed by any reliable source? How many people are missing? I mean, if this really is “secret police” stuff these people will be incommunicado in some black site, right?

    I have seen the account by one guy (named Pettibone, I believe). But are there others? How many others? How do we know? And this Pettibone isn’t in a gulag or any such, is he?

    1. Libertarian Commandment 12: We shalt not criticize undue government force without strictly verifiable evidence.

      1. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, my friend. We know these people were arrested.

        Several of the people who say they were arrested are now free, claiming how horribly they were treated (including some things that seem quite absurd, like that they had bags put over their heads like a discount spy movie).

        It’s the obvious question. If people are being disappeared, who is missing? If people are being arrested and released like normal, what’s the problem?

        1. ” If people are being arrested and released like normal, what’s the problem?”

          Depends. Are they being charged with crimes or are they just being kidnapped under color of law?

      2. FFS I won’t criticize something if it didn’t happen.

        I criticize the murder of George Floyd (anybody remember him?) because I’m reliably sure it did happen. And I consider it worse than murder by a private citizen.

        1. Wasn’t a murder. It was an overdose. A kneehold is not a chokehold.

          Or it’s a swearing match between coroners (both of whom are wisely hiding at this moment). Too hot to touch, by far.

          The “truth”? Far, far away, from all of us. Anybody who knows it, dares not declaim it. Anybody who declaims it, must be disbelieved.

          Mobs aren’t interested in details – they have their own agendas.

          1. “Mobs aren’t interested in details – they have their own agendas.”

            Sounds like they share this attribute with you.

            “A kneehold is not a chokehold.”
            Dude complained he couldn’t breathe. Cop didn’t get off him until several minutes later. Might not be murder, but it isn’t OK, either.

        2. The reason Trump’s actions, which were caught on camera, were permitted is because of an unconstitutional law we both oppose, so it’s tyranny by any evidentiary standard you might propose.

    2. There’s been absolutely zero follow up, and it’s been thoroughly refuted.

      The Marxists got the talking point for their media to parrot, and that is all that matters to them

  15. I’m just amazed that they allowed an article that describes rioting and violence at all after the last month or so of assuring us that these were “mostly peaceful” or “largely peaceful” protests. No violence to see here!

  16. “Finally some reporting on the ground.”

    The thing is, the Justice Center jail isn’t at ground level.Hindi-Shayari

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  18. When the rioters were asked why they were attacking the federal buildings and federal agents they proclaimed they were protecting their city against the feds. I had to reach up and close my mouth because by jaw fell so far. They are protecting their city from what? Law and order? These young lefty’s have been so indoctrinated their brains are gone. They have to become violent and destructive to even get the federal agents to react.
    This should have been put down in the first week with an overwhelming force by the National Guard and hundreds should have been arrested and not released as they are doing now.
    The left’s ally the fake news refuse to interview the law abiding people that live or work in those areas because they are not as valuable as the Marxist/anarchist who have sensative feelings. The feds should leave because it makes them mad and violent? Are you kidding me?

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