Election 2020

Potential Key to the 2020 Election: Voters Who Can't Stand Both Trump and Biden

The "haters demographic" broke strongly in Trump's favor in 2016, but this time the group is younger, more liberal, and more likely to vote for Biden.

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Voters who can't stand either major-party presidential nominee could be one of the keys to the election—and unlike in 2016, that might be bad news for President Donald Trump.

Four years ago, in a contest between two of the least-liked presidential nominees in history, Trump benefitted from the number of voters who found him slightly less detestable than Hillary Clinton. But a new Morning Consult poll suggests that Trump isn't doing as well with the "haters demographic" this time around. Voters who hold unfavorable views of both Trump and presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden are more likely to hold their nose and vote for the former vice president than for the incumbent.

Exit polling on Election Day 2016 showed that voters who did not like either major party candidate ended up backing Trump over Hillary Clinton by a 17-point margin. With less than four months to go until Election Day 2020, Morning Consult's new poll shows Biden with a 29-point lead with the same group. Among the 43 percent who say they are undecided, Biden has a 19-point lead when they are forced to make a choice.

The group also feels more strongly about Trump than it does about Biden: 66 percent saying they have very unfavorable views of the president, while only 40 percent say the same about Biden. Again, this is only looking at voters who say they have unfavorable views of both.

The influence that the so-called "haters demographic" could have on the election depends on a few things.

First, because of the Electoral College, there's a geographic limitation on how much of a role voter anger can play. No matter how much a Californian might hate Joe Biden, California is going to be blue state.

Second, like all polls that attempt to organize individuals into groups, this one can be a bit fuzzy around the edges. There are people out there who might say they dislike both candidates but are already fairly certain of how they will vote. Many conservatives, for example, might have voted for Trump in 2016 not because they particularly liked him but because they wanted a Republican president to pick judges. That's a valid way to sort through an awful choice like the one presented in 2016, and it demonstrates that some voters are motivated by more than their personal feelings towards the two candidates.

Then there is the role of third parties. The abysmal approval ratings for Trump and Clinton in 2016 likely contributed to the record-shattering number of votes received that year by former New Mexico Gov. Gary Johnson, the Libertarian Party's presidential nominee.

Few observers think that this year's Libertarian ticket—led by the Clemson psychologist Jo Jorgensen—will match Johnson's performance. But the Morning Consult poll didn't include any third-party candidates, so it may have a blind spot when it comes to whether members of the so-called "haters demographic" might refuse to vote for both Trump and Biden. Some might simply stay home; others might try to find an alternative candidate they actually like.

With negative partisanship driving so much of American politics these days—particularly on cable news and social media—it shouldn't be too surprising that voters with a negative view of both Trump and Biden are likely to decide the election. And with more than 100 days to go before the polls close, both candidates will have ample opportunities to add to that demographic.

NEXT: A Pandemic of Surveillance

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  1. Biden has been keeping real quiet.

    When he starts campaigning, more people will grow to hate him.

    1. Biden will absolutely destroy Drumpf in the debates, laying to rest those absurd rumors about “cognitive decline.”

      #BidenIsAsSharpAsEver

      1. You have competition; some character named Molly Golly McFadden or something like that.

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      3. Who is Biden going to plagiarize during the debate?

        Neither Trump or Biden should be President and both are afraid to
        let Jo Jorgensen http://www.jo20.com participate in the Presidential Debates.

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      4. Why is your precious Dear Leader losing by 10 points to a guy that likes to have little kids run his leg hair and who likes to run his mouth through people’s hair. He must suck pretty bad given that Biden has the charisma of a turnip. Can you explain why people prefer this bureaucratic eunuch over the masculinity, good looks and svelte trim of precious Dear Leader. I don’t understand.

        1. Yeah, Trump is lagging in the same polls that told us that Hillary would win by double digits.

          1. No polls tell you who will win anything.

    2. So far, nothing Biden did alienated the racially conservative Democrats who defected to Trump and yet are inclined to “come home”.

      That is the best we can say about him and his chances.

      1. The plan is to keep him locked up in his basement and claim social distancing, as to minimize the shooting self in foot factor [though it still happens, as in “Biden is going to beat Biden” meme].

        1. Unfortunately…I guess, Trump has unerring marksmanship in the foot shooting competition. Might have to call that round a draw.

          1. Democrats have a long history of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, I wouldn’t count them in just yet

      2. “That is the best we can say about him and his chances.”

        Other than his eight-to-fifteen-point lead?

        Other than Trump’s approval rating brushing the 30s?

        Other than there just not being enough bigots left in America to position Trump for another Electoral College trick shot?

        Other than Trump tossing his campaign manager overboard for failure?

        Open wider, clingers.

        1. I’m not sure Biden will get much of anything done if he wins so I’m not gonna worry too much about that scenario. And I’ll be voting for Jo, you know cause I’m not a piece of shit hypocritical bigot like you, but god I hope Trump wins just to watch your head explode.

          1. “…but god I hope Trump wins just to watch your head explode.”

            The TDS would be exponential. That alone would be worth it.

            That and seeing Ginsberg replaced with someone like Amy C. Barrett.

            Bend over an grab ’em Rev; you’re going to get a line drive up the rodeo chute.

          2. Its gonna be a regular Jo(e) off!

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    4. The Morning Consult went looking for a clear Biden victory among decided voters and didn’t find it. Then it went looking for a clear Biden victory among undecided voters and didn’t find it there either. Then they realized that they were terrible at predicting the voting habits of young voters and that the clear Biden victory, that they know is out there, had to be there.

      Among the young, politically-ambivalent voters who’s preferences and voting habits are notoriously hard to predict, that’s where Biden’s victory lies!

      1. They’ve been pushing the idea that younger voters are progressive for almost eighty years now, but come every election the youth vote mimics the rest of the electorate.

        In fact places like /pol/ and a huge number of subreddits demonstrate that a good chunk of the youth is very reactionary.

      2. I’m good at predicting the voting habits of young voters:
        they don’t vote.
        Old people vote, to keep the gravy train coming.

        1. I’m good at predicting the voting habits of young voters:
          they don’t vote.

          But that means Biden doesn’t have a clear path to victory and that can’t be right.

          1. Looks like someone needs to be cancelled.

            Who do you work for CE? Where’s your business that can be boycotted like a can of Hispanic beans?

    5. I expect that there will be some indictments coming from the Russian collusion/Michael Flynn entrapment by Labor Day. Biden is already implicated in the Michael Flynn entrapment case. That will not sit well with voters when the MSM is actually forced to report on it.

      Of course, I could be wrong, and the deep state will protect itself yet again.

      1. “…when the MSM is actually forced to report on it.” = eternal optimist

        1. We don’t need to cover old news.

      2. I don´t think the word entrapment means what you think it means, SteveRM.

    6. If Red China decides on a U.S. regime change, all they need do is release a bioweapon for which they have a vaccine. This is a LOT more effective than 13 years of slavery in ‘Nam or disposing of volunteers in Afghanistan or Iraq. Iraq now hates America, but Antifa loves Red China.

    7. The DNC running his demented ass should qualify as elder abuse.

      If you can’t hate Biden with his record of the past 40 years, I don’t know what it will take. That motherfucker has been on the wrong side of every issue since he first got elected to public office.

      Once he has to talk, people will feel a little sorry for him (if they ignore the aforementioned track record) and really wonder why they would want him as president.

      As shitty as Trump has done, his opponent is his only ace.

  2. Voters imploding!

    1. Without the Woke Health Organization demanding prohibition, the Gee Oh Pee could now publish a platform to abolish the DEA, lynch the Drug Czar, free all victimless criminals and expunge all victimless records. Or they could lose to the other prohibitionists… no big loss.

  3. Hillary was that bad of a candidate.

    Not to mention the excesses of the Great Awokening.

    I will quote from Matthew Yglesias’s article the Great Awokening.

    http://www.vox.com/2019/3/22/18259865/great-awokening-white-liberals-race-polling-trump-2020

    As white liberals became more vocal about racial inequality, more racially conservative Democrats left the party and helped power Donald Trump’s electoral victory. This backlash gives the impression that there’s a surging tide of white racism in America.

    “I don’t think it’s just a reaction to events,” Schaffner says. Rather, “even prior to Ferguson, people take cues from elites,” and Democratic elites were beginning to signal to the rank and file that they should take systemic racism concerns more seriously.

    The extent to which that model has become mainstream among Democratic Party leaders is now evident. Just this March, Beto O’Rourke told an overwhelmingly white audience in Iowa that American capitalism is “racist.” The previous summer, Elizabeth Warren called the criminal justice system “racist.” Even Joe Biden — who in the mid-1970s was a leading political opponent of aggressive school integration measures — in a January 2019 speech called on white America “to admit there’s still a systemic racism” in American life. Mainstream Democratic Party politicians, in other words, are beginning to take for granted that their constituents will embrace the more institutional understanding of racism.

    The notion that Obama’s ascension to the presidency would usher in a “post-racial” era of American life, of course, proved false. And not just because of a white backlash to his administration or to the growing diversity of the American population, but because white Democrats dramatically shifted their views of the centrality of racial discrimination in American life after the election of a black man to the highest office in the land.

    Zach Goldberg, a doctoral candidate at Georgia State University, observes that on key measures of racial attitudes, white liberals’ opinion has moved to the left of where black and Latino opinions are. White liberals are now less likely than African Americans to say that black people should be able to get ahead without any special help.

    White liberals also have warmer feelings about immigrants than Hispanics do.

    And, critically, white liberals are much more enthusiastic about the idea that diversity makes the United States a better place to live than are blacks or Latinos. Non-liberal whites are least enthusiastic of all, which is not enormously surprising, but Latino views of this are closer to those of non-liberal whites than to white liberals.

    At the same time, between 2001 and 2018, the share of Democrats who describe themselves as liberal in Gallup polls has risen from 30 percent to 50 percent. The upshot is that white liberals — a group whose views on race are generally to the left of nonwhites — are now about 40 percent of the overall Democratic Party, making them the largest bloc in the party and the critical driver of Democratic politicians’ leftward shift on race and identity issues.

    A big part of what Trump did in the 2016 campaign was simply increase the salience of racial conflict themes, thus boosting his appeal to white voters who may have previously backed Democrats on other grounds. But it’s crucial to understand that, in large part because of the Awokening, Trump is not to blame: Democrats themselves have moved the goalposts in terms of what kind of racial views one is expected to affirm as a good liberal.

    As Obama pushed racially conservative whites out of the Democratic Party, the remaining Democrats are more racially liberal.M

    A thing to note about these racially conservative Democrats is that they are quite liberal compared to the general population, let alone racial conservatives in general.

    I have no polling data on these racially conservative Democrats, but it would not surprise me if:

    – a solid majority of them favored increasing the minimum wage.
    – at least a significant minority supports Medicare for All.
    – they lean in favor of abortion rights.
    – a lopsided majority objects to rioting, looting, and arson.
    – a lopsided majority believe in basic American ideals.
    – a lopsided majority opposes removal of monuments and statues of prominent Americans.
    -at least a significant minority opposes removal of Confederate statues and monuments.
    – a lopsided majority opposes defunding the police.
    – a lopsided majority opposes police brutality.

    And, as Yglesias noted, they were pushed away by President Obama.

    As these particular racial conservatives lean liberal regarding their policy preferences, they were open to going back to the Democrats in four years.

    As for Joe Biden himself, neither he or his campaign have done anything to further alienate these racially conservative, liberal-leaning defectors, to keep them from “coming home”. He has impressive law-and-order credentials. He did not embrace defunding the police nor removal of statues of American presidents. I suspect a lopsided majority of these racially conservative Democrats who voted for Trump in the 2016 general election, and voted in the Democratic primaries, voted for Joe Biden.

    Even the start of these protests would not have alienated these racially conservative Democrats. After all, they still agree with the principles of equal protection and police accountability. many of them marched alongside racially liberal Democrats and Trump supporters.

    But what deters them from making the final decision to “come home” is the rest of the Democratic Party. Democratic officials have endorsed defunding the police. Democratic officials have endorsed Black Lives matter, which is now known as an organization founded by trained Marxists. Democratic officials allowed statues to be taken down by violent mobs, instead of mobilizing police to protect them (compare with Trump, who sent the National Guard to protect the Lincoln memorial.) Democratic officials expanded the meaning of white supremacy into the realm of incoherence. Democrats themselves defamed Mt. Rushmore.

    And this is just officials, not the various spokesholes.

    This is not to say that Joe Biden himself is responsible for this.

    Then again, James Cox had nothing to do with the League of Nations or the Depression.

    1. There are studies out there showing that white liberals have much stronger outgroup preferences than any other group, “Oikophobia” you might even say.

    2. Nominated for best post award, thank you.

    3. “The notion that Obama’s ascension to the presidency would usher in a “post-racial” era of American life, of course, proved false. ”

      . . .because Obama was the most racist president since FDR . . .

    4. I think the vast majority of white Americans of all political stripes are fine with racial equality.

      The problem is, the impetus is not for equality, but for institutionalized reverse discrimination.

      And that ain’t OK.

  4. Yea, riots will totally make people like the left more than they did in 2016.

    1. If he chose Whitmer as his VP, he could add lockdowns to the party platform as well.

      1. It’s amazing that Reason is apparently fine with what’s going on.
        The left has utilized all the most authoritarian tactics in the book in an attempt to gain power: deep state coup attempt, ridiculous pandemic, and fomenting racial/civil unrest through riots where local police won’t inhibit their thugs but will take the liberty from any citizen who dares try to defend themselves.
        But orangemanbad, so welcome totalitarianism

        1. Because most of them aren’t actually small “l” libertarian. They’re just LARPing it here because it’s a paying gig.

          Sure they’ll support sodomy and legalized meth and anything else that doesn’t conflict with progressive doctrine, but as far as the rest of it goes they’re not to different from the NYT crew.

          One thing that really bothers me is that they think libertarianism only applies to government, and needn’t be advocated regarding business and personal behavior.

          1. As juice linked in the roundup thread, Jo Jo just posted a video endorsing a company’s decision to fire a woman for posting “all lives matter” on her private Facebook page.

            Libertarianism will be dead if it doesn’t stand up to leftism, and I have no pity here for the “bOtH SiDeS” cult getting marched off to the camps

        2. For them to be OK with all the things you just listed, they’d have to share your belief that your perception of the world is accurate.

      2. Newsom is doing his best to turn California red.

        1. In BOTH political meanings of the word “Red” . . .

    2. Do riots affect most people’s lives, anywhere issues like unemployment, lockdowns, education, retirement and healthcare?

      1. For people to be less concerned with violent riots that have destroyed over a billion dollars in property damage and resulted in dozens of deaths than they are the fact that the people facilitating these riots aren’t in control of the country’s healthcare, they’d have to share your belief that your perception of the world is accurate.

        1. Wasn’t talking about my view of the world. Talking about people around me seem to express concern about.

          What they talk about, way more than riots, is whether they’ll have a job, how much they are paying for healthcare, paying their bills and all those meat and potatoes issues.

          1. Whether the Dems will let them go back to work is probably the biggest issue, but they see the Klantifa and Bloated, Loud Marxist thugs promising to bring the violence to all of the country, and this makes them afraid for their own physical safety.

            For many, this has made them question their fear of guns, leading to millions of new first-time gun buyers . . .who are unlikely to vote for the guy who has promised to take those guns away from them.

  5. Morning Consult is a global, privately held data intelligence company established in 2014.[1] It was named one of the fastest growing technology companies in North America by Deloitte in both 2018 and 2019.[2] [3] The company specializes in online survey research technology and has offices in Washington, D.C., New York City, Chicago, and San Francisco.[4]

    I suppose a poll from The Milliennial’s Daily Navel Gazer would’ve been too obviously slanted and irrelevant.

  6. The “keys” to the election are

    (1) Biden is up at least 8 points

    (2) 538 says the lead “probably” isn’t 15 yet

    (3) not enough bigots left in America to keep the Republicans afloat

    1. You forgot to say “three cushion bankshot,” but otherwise good post.

    2. dude 538? my cat is more credible.

      1. And fluffier.

        1. probably. i don’t know what Nate looks like.

          1. Like the literal embodiment of a progressive.

            I’m serious, google him. He looks like every white leftist stereotype combined.

    3. You forgot the “open wider clingers.” Losing your touch?

    4. national polls are irrelevant.
      Biden has the charisma of a phone book.
      conservatives are motivated to turn out due to the riots and the Dems’ reaction to them.

    5. He does need to make it though the debates. That’s the biggest chance for him to screw up.

    6. Well, and it isn’t discussed much, but both candidates are in a demographic at risk of becoming seriously ill or dying from COVID-19. It could happen.

      It still blows my mind that, in a year with a pandemic that mostly harms the elderly, several young, vital candidates were passed over for Joe.

      1. The cynical part of me says that was on purpose.

        1. As far as I can tell it was on purpose, and they were trying to come up with the most non-descript, middle of the road candidate they could.

          Might be a winning strategy, but there wasn’t someone bland and a bit younger?

    7. “WAH WAH WAH BIGOTS WAH WAH WAH EVERYONE BUT ME IS HITLER THEREFORE POLLS SUDDENLY MATTER”

    8. There are more than enough bigots to keep the Republicans afloat — when the bigots keep attacking white people, and are supported by the Dems, this will help push the Republicans back into power in places where the KKK/DNC think they’re safe.

  7. Then there is the role of third parties.

    To lose.

    1. all those who were pleased the LP nominated a true believer this time will now note the lack of media coverage. back to 0.3%.

      1. all those who were pleased the LP nominated a true believer this time will now note the lack of media coverage.

        Well, there was this hit piece on her “ties” to a violent white supremacist organization, so someone must be at least a little bit worried.

        1. She practically gave them that one as a gift. What was she thinking?

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  10. Reason’s readers are so unreasonable.

  11. It will still come down to individual freedoms vs. fascism.
    With the court nominations emphasizing the difference a bit less because of the recent rulings by the supremes.
    One possible major event affecting this would be a vacancy before the election.

    1. On that note, RBG is out of the hospital and still not quitting.
      Disgusting human being

      1. Justice Ginsburg’s final act on the Court should go something like this:

        (1) Dance on Trump’s political grave. With Kate McKinnon, on live television.

        (2) Stick around long enough for Justice Obama’s swearing-in ceremony next spring.

        (3) Conclude her retirement announcement by winking at Justices Thomas, Alito, Kavanaugh, and Gorsuch and whispering “open wider, clingers.”

        1. Dance on Trump’s political grave. With Kate McKinnon, on live television.

          While singing a song about how bad it is that the Republicans politicize the Supreme Court.

        2. Not a chance Artie Poo. Obumbles has a sweet gig as celebrity-in-chief and king of the influence peddlers. He’ll be a billionaire in 10 years. Unlike you, he’s not so fucking stupid as to give up a lucrative life of leisure for an actual job.

        3. “Justice Obama”

          Open wider, Bitter Clinger.

    2. Which party is for individual freedom? Which one is not fascist?

  12. BTW, is that picture the newest white power sign?

  13. Shorter Boehm: People just like me matter!

    1. Is that good or bad?

  14. *this time* will be the time the utes show. totes!

  15. Young people never vote or vote in enough numbers to matter. I think the group of voters who do matter that would vote against Trump out of dislike and would show up to do so in enough numbers to matter are suburban white women. I think, the Democratic Party becoming the party of looting and lawlessness this summer has made that significantly less likely.

    1. I think, the Democratic Party becoming the party of looting and lawlessness this summer has made that significantly less likely.

      Also lockdowns. Not only is there no reason to risk catching COVID just to vote, but what’s the point in filling out forms that you mail back in if you can’t coyly wear your ‘I voted’ sticker around and brag with your friends about how you all voted for the right person, principles, platform, team color?

      1. “I voted!” zoom party coming to an ipad near you.

    2. Why would the average person, who doesn’t follow the news as closely as most of do, make an association between the Democratic Party and rioters?

      I’d say the opinion I’ve heard the most from white suburban women is that the rioting wouldn’t keep happening if Republicans would stop blocking police reform.

      1. I know a lot of suburban white women around Minneapolis and they know goddamn well there isn’t a Republican in power within 100 miles of the Metro area. So there’s that.

        1. Maybe. That might go more to state-level election results.

      2. “ Why would the average person, who doesn’t follow the news as closely as most of do, make an association between the Democratic Party and rioters?”

        Because they’re not watching the news and thereby not being brainwashed into thinking idiotic shit, like that the riots are the Republicans’ fault, or that they keep “blocking reform”?

  16. I’ve got my “vote none of the above for President” hat. Like the movie Network: we’re fed up and we are not going to take it anymore.

    1. “None of the above” should be a legitimate (and automatic) slot on any ballot. If NOTA wins, let the chips fall where they may.

    2. Good for you! Seriously.

      I’ll be leaving the Presidential box blank, too.

  17. Where is Jo Jorgensen these days? Is she campaigning at all? This is the first article on the LIBERTARIAN PARTY’S PRIVATE WEBSITE to mention her in months. How do you expect people to vote for her if no one realizes she’s evening running?

    1. You’d almost think that deliberately ignoring her while talking about how Johnson was the greatest (both contemporarily and now) that they are/were trying to sink the party.

      1. Some days I seriously worry that the libertarian party, at least at certain levels, is just an astroturf/false-flag operation for/by DNC.

        1. I don’t think Libertarian talking points are something a liberal/progressive would be able to grok well enough to fake.

    2. Why would you expect a libertarian magazine to cover the Libertarian candidate? Silly rabbit.

      1. One of the things I like about Reason is they don’t talk about the Libertarian Party that much.

        The greatest benefit the LP has contributed to libertarianism is keeping all the purists busy with debating each other at LP meetings .

        1. “debating each other at LP meetings”

          Mostly over perceived violations of Robert’s Rules of Order.

  18. Given Biden’s age and frailty, I wonder if perhaps his VP pick might play into this as well. His pick might generate some indirect hate (and love from the far Left).

    1. Madame President Stacy Abrams. As soon as the 25th Amendment is invoked day 2 the BOR will be suspended due to a racial/ environmental/ gender discrimination emergency take your pick.

      1. I said as much on the other thread. Joe’s going to take the oath and then ‘succumb to illness’ and anybody who doesn’t agree to his successor’s lockdown orders/climate agenda will be portrayed as wanting to rape baby corpses in the street.

        1. Sorry, rape black and brown female-identifying baby corpses in the street heterosexually. Intersectional baby corpse rapers will be OK.

    2. Jeez, when is he finally going to announce someone.

      1. Not until his handlers can get him to stop saying that he’s running against Joe Biden to be the next Senator.

  19. The card the Ds haven’t played yet from the totalitarian handbook is massive vote fraud.
    Get ready to see some shit in PA, Michigan, and Wisconsin

    1. It has been played many times in the past.
      To quote that great freedom lover LBJ “I stole that election fair and square”.

      1. Yea, I’m limiting the scope to 2020
        But they’ve definitely come out and told the world they plan on doing it

        1. I’ve got to ask for a citation on that.

            1. OMG, did you intend to link to the entire Democratic Party platform?

              I don’t read party platforms. Just like I don’t listen to politicians’ speeches.

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  22. No Eric, wrong again.

    1. About what?

  23. Man, that lady is pitting out, but only under her left armpit.

  24. But the Morning Consult poll didn’t include any third-party candidates, so it may have a blind spot when it comes to whether members of the so-called “haters demographic” might refuse to vote for both Trump and Biden.

    I freaking hope L’s aren’t paying one bit of attention to poll results. Polls are entirely the top-down DeRp game. ‘Haters’ or everyone motivated by ‘lesser evil’ will always vote DeRp. Always. DeRp has already trapped their mind and their emotion. Their actions/vote will always follow.

    The only votes for L’s (or any third party) will come from those who think the DeRps aren’t speaking to them. That they are ignoring what IS important to them. That is a vacuum. Whoever steps into that vacuum will get their vote. If no one does, they won’t vote. The details – who isn’t being spoken to, what issues matter to them, what do we believe about those issues, how can we reach those folks – is the entirety of a third party campaign. NOT – getting into a debate, arguing with DeRp pollsters about who to include, playing the DeRp game, etc.

    I suspect that ‘best target audience’ for L’s in 2020 is the ‘OK Boomer’ crowd. Just a guess. And golly if that’s the case, L’s already have a ready-made meme that can reach them and go viral in a heartbeat. And cannot be responded to or countered by DeRps because – guess what.

    If there are L’s reading this, get in touch with me. I’d much prefer to move that along than dick around on these troll-infested boards.

    1. See, now I’m all invested in what it could be.

      Do you have a newsletter I could subscribe to?

  25. Only Biden is promoting far left agendas. Well not really Biden because he is semi-coherent, but his team which is made up of prog left wonks and other assorted idiots.

    If you want socialist ideology and “anti-racist” bullshit shoved down your throat with a helping of “justice” up your ass, please vote for Biden and enjoy your future.

  26. I’d vote for Jo in November, but dang if I’m going to go stand in line for two hours just to get Covid. This might be the first election I’ve sat out in 32 years.

    1. Voting by mail, when ballots are requested individually, not mass mailed to the living and the dead, and are sworn to, is perfectly acceptable for internees.

  27. The “haters demographic” broke strongly in Trump’s favor in 2016, but this time the group is younger, more liberal, and more likely to vote for Biden.

    Said literally every headline since I could read.

    ‘younger, more liberal, and more likely to vote [insert Democrat here]’

    1. See above. “We couldn’t find certainty among the known electorate that our candidate will win so it must be among the unknown (of the unknown of the unknown…) electorate! It can’t not exist!”

  28. You can’t eradicate cannibalism by eating the cannibals; there is no better analog for what voting is.
    The voting booth should reconfigure the ballot lever to a dildo and require the Helots to use their mouths to make the selection of their next master, it also provides a keen preview of things to come for the voter.
    “A ballot is just a substitute for a bullet. If your vote isn’t backed by a bullet, it is meaningless. Without the bullet, people could ignore the election outcome. Voting would be pointless. Democracy has violence at its very core!” ~Muir Matteson, “The Nonviolent Zone”
    “Free election of masters does not abolish the masters or the slaves.” Herbert Marcuse
    “Working within the system means to become a part of the system. When you go into the voting booth, the only meaningful significance that your action will have is to show that one more person supports the state”. ~Mark Davis
    “Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other.” ~ Oscar Ameringer
    “An election is a moral horror, as bad as a battle except for blood; a mud bath for every soul concerned in it.” ~ George Bernard Shaw
    “If the right to vote were expanded to seven year olds … its policies would most definitely reflect the ‘legitimate concerns’ of children to have ‘adequate’ and ‘equal’ access to ‘free’ french fries, lemonade and videos.” ~ Hans-Hermann Hoppe
    “Grown men do not need leaders.” – Edward Abbey

    1. Lotta gems in those quotes. The last one especially.

  29. Trump big line from 2016 was “what do you have to lose”. Well we now know that he is lazy and incompetent, and that the country has come damn close to losing it all. So for the voter that doesn’t like either candidate Joe Biden come closer to ‘what have you got to lose”. After all we can vote him out in 2024. Hopefully by then we can have at least one candidate we can like.

  30. It will all come down to who you stand with. Do you stand with the rioter, looter, arsonist, murderers, Marxist and anarchist rampaging through our streets threatening to burn it all down if not given what they want and the over 1,000 heavily armed blacks that invaded Stone Mountain Park calling on whites to come have a shoot out with them or do you stand with the law abiding hard working American citizens that silently work to achieve a good life for their families and work to make their communities safer and better for raising children? The former is the Biden crowd with the latter being who will support President Trump. I resent any type of threat of violence to force change and have no respect for people crowding in the streets during a pandemic causing a spike in infections while taking away the chance we had of opening our country, Americans going back to work and our children going back to school. This is the desperate last gasp of the left to win in November by intimidating and causing chaos then using their ally the fake news media to shift the blame to the President.
    All Presidents have shown the stress of the grave responsibilities of hold the office under normal times. How would they have held up to the 24/7 attacks President Trump has been forced to deal with along with the normal stress of the Presidency? I respect the strength and resilience shown by our President who has been under constant attack by the left and their ally the fake news media with threats of the Russian hoax, impeachment, hundreds of investigations by the left that implies show me the man and I’ll find a crime, the Chinese virus and all the propaganda and resistance and opposition. The left and the fake news media have pulled out all stops and now openly lie attempting to gain political power. In this election many Americans will not vote for a candidate but will vote against a violent faction regardless of how they feel about the candidates. Giving in to the mobs is not acceptable.

    1. How well have Presidents held up to the 24/7 attacks? Well President Clinton, President Bush, and President Obama did it pretty well. They accepted that it was part of the job and so instead focused on their work. Too bad President Trump is not able to do the same. But as President Truman said “If you don’t want the heat, stay of the kitchen.”

    2. i really think that the coercion aspect of all this will be the deciding factor. if the overall perception of the swing voter is that covid and the protests have been used to bully the electorate then trump wins. however, if the covid lockdowns and protests are viewed as legitimate responses to justified grievances then biden wins.

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  32. Supposedly the Bernie Bro’s wanted the socialist to win. Problem is, they NEVER showed up to vote for him in the primaries. He only won NV.

    I have doubts that the young college age liberals who “hate” will even show up to vote at all.

    Bernie’s “support” never materialized. There is as likely a possibility that the young haters of both will just continue to stay in their parent’s basement watching porn and playing video games.

    As far as the women? They sure don’t like either. They may just not vote at all, but for different reasons.

    Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)

  33. Since accidentally discovering the LP in 1980 I gradually became straight-ticket. This has nothing to do with the candidates, but rather, the platforms. Both the GOP and Dems promise to send men with guns to shoot our kids over plant leaves. They’ll SAY it was for trying to escape, or resisting, or not kneeling quickly enough. Their politicians and judges will let those killers with badges off scot-free. This is something they do every day today, and did every day before 2016, when my ballot went to Gary and Willie.

  34. The youth vote is nonexistent. That’s one of the reasons why polls that include those under 35 rarely manifest in election results. Polsters never get this. The real predictions come with what the 35 and over crowd want. Trump will remain in the WH through 2024, and it will be the over 40 black, white, brown and yellow crowd who’ll put him there, like last time.

  35. Just stay home – the elections in this country are a fucking farce anyway.

    1. Every vote is mathematically insignificant. If Gary Johnson hadn’t been such a dope in 2016 I might have voted for him then. That’s the only reason to vote: to give the 3rd party candidate who aligns with your views that tiny shred of legitimacy. Even 4x the legitimacy of 2012 wasn’t enough to save that campaign.

      After Amash, I think it’s safe to say the libertarian moment is over. Thomas Massie is probably going to be the last libertarian in Congress. It’s way, way over for us. There’s no time for libertarian ideas when every issue is some hill to die on for the left or right. The most we can hope for is a Republican that is rational enough to arrive at the libertarian answer about 30% of the time.

      1. You’re right. All of us should have a plan for ending our lives painlessly.

    2. Considerably less of a farce than in most other democracies. And the elections that primarily matter are local, state, and primaries.

      You’re right that Gore vs Bush vs Obama vs McCain vs Clinton didn’t matter: those were all interchangeable members of the American intellectual and progressive aristocracy. But sometimes elections do matter.

  36. My approach is that the $ 1.25 worth of gasoline (actually, less this year) that I save not driving to a polling place to cast a worthless vote for someone I hate anyway is the only benefit to me I have any chance of obtaining.

    I hate my government, but not nearly as much as they hate me.

  37. It doesn’t matter whether you like or don’t like a candidate, what matters is what policies they are likely to enact.

    Biden’s election is going to result in destructive, socialist policies.

    Trump’s reelection is going to result in moderately conservative policies and lots of deadlock.

    One is clearly preferable to the other.

  38. i’m come around to the conclusion a biden win is better on the long term for two reasons:
    -It will (hopefully) force the GOP to figure out what it is post trump, and hopefully that party will be something that can compete in national elections
    -the 2020s are going to be a painful decade no matter who wins, i worry if its Trump then that unavoidable pain will lead to something much worse than Biden in 2024 (President AOC anyone?). If Biden wins now and things are still bad, hopefully we get that acceptable republican i mentioned in point one.

    Basically Biden is taking a hard firm kick in the nuts now to avoid a bullet in the head later.

  39. False moral equivalence benefiting trumpski

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