Immigration

ICE's Plan To Kick Out Foreign Students Is Chilling

The Trump administration is using the pandemic to rid the country of foreigners

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If there was any doubt that the Trump administration will seize on any and every pretext to slam immigrants, it should be put to rest now. The Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) just issued guidance that is using the pandemic to kick out all international students who are not enrolled in regular, in-person classes starting this fall.

These rules will penalize students whose colleges have decided to go online—without securing any discernible economic, educational, health, or security upside for America. To the contrary, in fact. So why is the administration doing this? Basically to purge as many immigrants from the country as possible before the November elections—and discourage new ones from coming in.

Most foreign students come to American on non-immigrant F-1 and M-1 visas that require them to maintain a full course load in universities approved by ICE's Student and Exchange Visitor Program (SEVP). In order to guard against diploma mills, SEVP offers accreditation mostly to universities that offer classroom instruction and usually limits foreign students to three credit hours of online instruction per semester.

But when the coronavirus hit and colleges moved everyone to online instruction, ICE did the only sensible thing and allowed international students to finish their spring and summer semesters by taking all their classes online like everyone else without voiding their visas. However, ICE is rescinding that guidance going forward and is stipulating that international students attending online-only programs must leave the United States. If they fail to do so, they'll face deportation and risk getting barred from the country.

There are 1.2 million foreign students in the U.S. enrolled in 8,700 universities. A third of these universities had already announced plans to go fully or partially online. This means that if these students are not able to switch to colleges offering on-campus instructions, which most of them won't be able to do because colleges don't have vacant seats, they will be instantly out of luck. But even those who manage to switch won't necessarily be safe. Why? Because ICE is also saying that if secondary outbreaks prompt these universities to switch to distant learning in the fall, hardly a remote possibility, it will require the students to leave mid-semester—never mind that many of them have been paying full tuition fees that run upwards of $50,000 annually at many private nonprofit colleges. But ICE pooh-poohs their predicament claiming that they can go home and continue in their programs.

But that is easier said than done given that not all countries have reliable internet connections at all times. Moreover, trying to offer online instruction across time zones and continents will pose massive challenges. Will U.S. faculty hold office hours and students attend classes in the middle of the night? Also, one major attraction of an American education is the opportunity to experience American life and build networks with faculty and interact with peers from across the world. All of that will go out of the window if these kids are forced to return home.

International students, 5.5 percent of the higher education population, pumped $41 billion into American universities and supported nearly 460,000 campus and other jobs in the 2018-19 academic year, thanks to the top tuition dollars they pay. Universities rely on those contributions to subsidize in-state tuition for American kids. They also depend on foreign graduate students to assist in classroom instruction, especially in STEM fields that Americans typically shun. Many technical, hard science programs will have a tough time operating without access to their services.

All of this means that universities can't end their reliance on foreign students on a dime, so to speak, without hurting American students especially at a time when state governments reeling from COVID-19-related revenue losses are cutting back their contributions. So many of them will be tempted to maintain campus instruction despite the added risk to the health of faculty and students—which is why ICE's guidance is nothing short of "horrifying," as the American Council on Education, a higher education lobbying group, put it.

Harvard University and Massachusetts Institute of Technology, both of whom had decided to move entirely online, have already sued over ICE's new guidance. But even if the courts stay the rules pending a final ruling, something that could take a year, many students will leave rather than live in uncertainty in America. Moreover, new students will be reluctant to enroll next fall out of fear that if Trump gets re-elected, he'll renew his slams on them at the drop of a hat. This means that regardless of whether Trump wins or loses in November, these rules will succeed in deterring foreign students for at least yet another year—after three years straight of declining enrollment.

Trump has already used the pandemic to shut down practically all legal immigration to the country till the end of this year including high-skilled workers and the family members of Americans and permanent residents.

But this is a diabolical plan whose only purpose is to feed this administration's obsessive and irrational hostility towards foreigners and immigrants. There is really no other explanation.

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  1. Author could have researched why universities desire international students who pay more for tuition and why they reject qualified Americans. It’s all about money. Not that I would expect open borders libs to understand the realities here but yay another anti trump screed.

    1. “reject qualified Americans” – citation needed, motherfucker

      1. Settle down. There aren’t that many American students qualified for real majors anyway.

        1. Oh I know he’s right I just hate it. You all know me well enough to know that if I actually got a citation I’d just make excuses and deflect.

          1. ^Tulpa is off his meds again.

            BTW, Wearing a mask cuts the risk of infection by 65%. You know, beside the fact that wearing a mask shows basic respect for other people.

            1. Of course, I’m a fucking retard and am too stupid to realize that without a vaccine, it doesnt cut the infection rate at all. And it doesn’t really show courtesy that’s just the stupid excuse I use to demand you kowtow to my fear.

              1. I quit working at shoprite and now I make $65-85 per/h. How? I’m working online! My work didn’t exactly make me happy so I decided to take a chance on something new… after 4 years it was so hard to quit my day job but now I couldn’t be happier.

                Here’s what I do…………………………..► Click here

            2. shows basic respect for other people

              Yeah I remember when you used that lie for gay marriage and trannies too.

              1. Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me fool me three times I have too many chromosomes like Chipper does.

            3. Considering that like you most of the people demanding courtesy are the same cunts who are happy to burn buildings down and let communism skull fuck them, I’m happy to laugh in your faces, sans mask.

            4. No. No it doesn’t. It’s a shame you’re so ignorant and deluded.

            5. Yeah, I’ve seen some of the “science” that they use as a proof surrogate in that link. Notice how they never mentioned how masks stop aerosols? Because they don’t. They mention that masks stop droplets, but they fail to go beyond that and explain what they think happens to the virus particles (virions) inside the droplets after that. Yeah, I know, by then the study has ended, but real life doesn’t work like that.

              What happens is that the droplet evaporates. The virus does not. So the virus is now on the surface of a mask that cannot stop virus particles from passing, in an area where there is constant airflow (you know, breathing) through the mask. If the person should happen to exhale, as people are known to do at times, the virus particles will be propelled through the mask with zero chance of being stopped, into the air. Now it IS an aerosol, which can persist in the air for hours.

              All the time all these masked people are breathing and talking, they are expelling droplet-borne virions (if they are infected) that are quickly converted to aerosols by the very action of their masks. Without the mask, the droplet would have fallen to the floor within six feet, which is why we have the six foot rule. Now it’s an aerosol that will only settle when the conditions are completely still for a long time, which won’t happen in a place where people are moving around.

              Yeah, sounds like 65% threat reduction to me. But yeah, the study shows that masks stop droplets, the source of most virions shed from the body, so there’s that, if you happen to believe that virions can evaporate as easily as tiny droplets of water.

              That’s why it’s “science” that shows that masks work, not science. Science has been co-opted as a political tool by those tools in the Democrat party. All they have to do is claim that whatever their political end may be is supported by “science,” and that’s supposed to be it… unarguable and unopposable. Thing is, belief in unarguable and unopposable things is religion, not science… in science, anything can be opposed, and should be, vigorously. It’s a process for learning the facts, and it can be slow and ponderous to get there.

              These “studies” that defy the conventional wisdom that masks do not work against viruses (either as a protective for the wearer or for others around him) are evidence of this. They’ve been rushed out to support political positions, not to get to the truth. This was the advice of the CDC, and still is with the flu, the closest analog to COVID. Other health organizations, like WHO, continued to give the standard answer long after the CDC reversed itself.

              When you add in that pretty much everyone who wears a mask touches it constantly with their unwashed hands, putting whatever was on those hands right there in the path of air flowing into their lungs (and again, the mask offers no resistance to viruses), you can see why not recommending mask use by the general public was, and is, the conventional wisdom on virus control.

              The studies do not account for the realities of how people wear masks… they are not going to stop touching them, moving them down off the nose to get a much-needed breath of fresh air, moving them completely off the face when outside, moving them up again when going inside somewhere or when the Karen proximity alarm sounds, scratching the itches and tickles they cause, or repositioning them because they constantly shift. Nor would these studies ever take this into account, as they are not meant to show what we already knew about how regular people wear masks (which is why the conventional view that masks are not a good idea for virus control for regular people was/is, in fact, the conventional view), but to promote their use.

              Regular people are not going to start washing their hands before they scratch an itch or move the mask down or up. They’ve been told this a thousand times, but just watch them in any public place. They don’t. They have gotten the message that mask wearing is the most important thing… all of the other things are recommendations (because they are less enforceable than a visible mask), but mask wearing is the one thing that is mandated in many areas.

              They’ll go as far as using the mask, especially if they have no choice, but they will skip the things like washing the hands, because they think the mask is really the most important. They do not realize that if you are wearing a mask, not touching the face is as important, if not more so, than it would be if not masked. Those people who only wear the mask because they were forced to are not thinking of infection control anyway, so they are not going to do it “right” either.

              And, of course, none of this even touches on the bit where reducing the rate of infection only kicks the can down the road if we are applying it equally to everyone, saving none. Unless you think dying of COVID a few months later is really a life saved, of course.

              1. If masks don’t reduce spreading of the disease, can you explain why (1) research shows the opposite, (2) other countries where people wear masks have much less infection?

                The goals are reduce hospital patient counts so they aren’t doing what the geniuses in Texas and Florida are facing, and hold on till we get treatments or vaccines. It’s pretty easy to follow. What’s your reasoning?

                1. For the time and situation, just roll with the punch and be considerate until the consensus decides that mask are no longer necessary and don’t let the politics stampede you….

                  1. The panᵈᵉᵐic will disappear once the bad orange man is gone and we won’t need masks, which only serve to remind people of its existence.

          2. Most of the comments in this thread are not by me, but by the loser that is using my username with an extra space. BTW, it is really sad that the jerry-rigged Reason code from the 90s doesn’t detect that as a duplicate.

            1. Most of the comments in this thread are not by me

              Like anyone fucking cares.

      2. He wasnt talking about you dummy.

        1. Obviously, I’ve said before I didn’t graduate high school and had to get a GED.

          1. If it bothers you, and you were only short a few credits for graduation, most states accept a GED in exchange for the credits needed to graduate HS.
            Of course, if you just use the GED to enroll in a college, then the college degree that you earn is what employers care about. Nobody cares about your HS credentials too long after your 21st birthday.

      3. CA university system accepts more international students than they should, at the expense of accepting in-state students. Reason? Money. Cite yourself, it’s super easy for anyone with fingers to search. Sorry if you’re fingerless.

    2. If it’s a private college or university, what is wrong with them choosing whomever they want as students?

      1. So… you’re too dumb to understand that even private schools generally get a ton of public money? Sounds like it.

        1. It’s not that I’m dumb it’s that I’m incapable of thinking of anything besides tired platitudes.

          1. Progtard action is a terrible thing.

            1. ‘Progtardation’. Autocorrecting squirrels…….

        2. Private schools get a ton of money, sure. They’re much more expensive because they don’t use taxes.

    3. Who do you hate more Art, beaners or camel jockeys?

      1. For me it’s the camel jockeys, beaners make good food and keep my lawn tidy.

        1. I love the beaners- not only do they cook the best food, have an excellent work ethic, produce stunningly beautiful women, and are just generally nice people- they also make it easier for me to practice my espanol… which is getting pretty good. “Vamanos a la cantina! Su compras! Donde es el bano? Mas importante, donde es las mujeras?”
          But, just because I like them doesn’t mean that we need millions of them to invade our country and lower our wages. Just saying.

          1. It’s either/or. C’mon, get with the progressive. Zero-sum world, and all.

    4. Even Brendan is a transphobe, radfem kind: see his focus on “M2F are a threat to women, they’re potential rapists like all the men” while totally ignoring the existence of F2M (actually the majority among the younger transitions). He also doesn’t care about children transitions issue: he prefer to talk much more about the alleged plights of adult lesbians.And if you do not agree he spout “misogyny!” to silence you
      Click For Full Detail.

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    7. Also, if they aren’t here to physically be at a college, then they don’t need to be here. It’s really that simple.

      1. Yes, exactly. Also, this from the article:
        “…build networks with faculty and interact with peers from across the world. All of that will go out of the window if these kids are forced to return home.”

        How is that supposed to happen if they AREN’T ON CAMPUS and AREN’T ALLOWED TO GATHER IN GROUPS? Online, that’s how. From anywhere in the ffing world.

      2. No one “needs” to be “here”.

    8. Perhaps having professors work more than 2 hours, twice a week would be a good place to start rethinking their model. Colleges live off of government loans (third party purchases). Pretty much like the government, colleges don’t have to worry too much about producing a financially competitive, useful product or service. Maybe it’s time those smarmy college administrators did some actual fucking work and leaned out all the pork.

  2. “But ICE pooh-poohs their predicament claiming that they can go home and continue in their programs.”

    I mean if you’re OK with taking classes online, why isn’t that an OK answer? You came here for school, now you don’t need to be here for school.

    The entire purpose of the visa was because they couldn’t attend the school without being physically present. Now that the schools are saying “don’t come”, it would seem there’s no need for the visas in the first place.

    1. And if schools later switch back to in-class instruction, does the U.S. guarantee the students will be able to get back in? Would you commit to a study course you may not be able to finish through no fault of your own?

      It’s also not ok to jerk people around like that. They made plans in good-faith reliance on our invitation to come here for some defined time. It’s not their fault that _our_ plans changed due to the pandemic.

      1. The “defined time” is on a semester-by-semester basis, contingent upon paying tuition for that particular semester.

      2. Well then, open up the ducking schools! College students range from about 18 to 23. That age group is not gonna get sick from the WuFlu, and won’t pass it on to mom and dad on spring break. If you want to go to college, then actually, you know, go to college.

        1. In the first place, College students don’t just range in age from 18-23. Plenty of people older than that go to college, as well.

          Secondly, it’s also not true that younger people don’t get Covid-19 virus. Even healthy younger people have become severely ill and died from it.

      3. Millions of of Americans also made plans in good faith that have been cancelled by government Wuhan virus edicts. All the shits I have to give on the subject are used up on my fellow citizens. The foreign students can go home as far as I’m concerned.

      4. In reality, colleges are desperate for more international students because they pay more. Their financial model depends on it. In grad school there are just aren’t enough americans who go for it. In my engineering grad school even decades ago half at least the students were from outside the us, unlike my bs which was 95%+ americans. Today it’s just worse. It’s even higher international % for the phds in AI. Not allowing these students in will be a massive loss for the future. In my experience there are plenty of spots in grad school. Maybe MIT and Stanford hit a limit, but the challenge is using your brain and learning, not getting in.

        1. So, we cede our STEM university spots to foreigners because of a failure of American public education. Maybe we should fix the problem earlier in the education process. In the meantime, if Harvard has to tap into their endowment, boohoo.

        2. Sounds like a chicken or egg situation. You say there aren’t enough Americans for grad school. It’s just as likely that enough Americans can’t get in because foreign students are consuming the available openings. As the author openly confesses, “colleges don’t have vacant seats” for students to switch to on-campus institutions.

    2. And if schools later switch back to in-class instruction, does the U.S. guarantee the students will be able to get back in? Would you commit to a study course you may not be able to finish through no fault of your own?

      It’s also not ok to jerk people around like that. They made plans in good-faith reliance on our invitation to come here for some defined time. It’s not their fault that _our_ plans changed due to the pandemic.

      1. Apparently arbitrary and capricious government is totally cool, as long as it affects foreigners.

        1. It isnt arbitrary. Nor is it capricious.

          If classes are online they dont have to be in the states to attend.

      2. Was a stupid question the first time.

      3. Guess they’ll make new plans then = They made plans in good-faith reliance on our invitation to come here for some defined time.

        Thems the breaks.

      4. What “invitation” are you talking about? They applied to the university, were accepted, and given permission, not a guarantee. Where’s the invitation in any of that? This isn’t a date to the prom dumbass. The US isn’t in the business of guaranteeing that anyone [American or foreign] gets to finish their degree at their preferred university, public or private.

        We all make plans, most in good faith, and often those plans change. Or are you one of those idiots who thinks the US should guarantee that Americans or the rest of the world gets happiness and sprinkles? The rest of us had plans changed by COVID, as did the rest of the world. Shit happens and that’s part of life. Nobody has guaranteed my business, refunded my trip to the beach, or guaranteed that my kids will get the job they want after college. WTF…. lose the toddler mentality.

        1. I have tickets, originally for July 3rd, this year, for Santanna appearing with Earth, Wind, and Fire. The show has been rescheduled until August of 2021. I demand reparations!

          1. In lieu of reparations, you can stay at the venue for as long as you like since they “invited” you to the show.

            1. Are you part of America or a hired employee? If you want reparations, you’re a hired employee and you can get the fuck out when you get paid.

              Otherwise, the past is your buy in. Suck it up butter cups

    3. The entire purpose of the visa was because they couldn’t attend the school without being physically present. Now that the schools are saying “don’t come”, it would seem there’s no need for the visas in the first place.

      Unless you realize that not all foreign students have access online from their home countries.

      1. Which of course THEY should have sorted and has exactly fuckall to do with anything

      2. So you’re saying America is better than those countries.

      3. Part of the “We need to fix a small part of the world by tanking things for the rest of us” line of thinking. Sorry, too many ChiComs extracting secrets in the system anyway. Flush ’em out. Flush ’em out now.

        1. Yup. Knew I was going to doubt the author was serious when she chose to ignore this well-documented problem.

          https://www.fbi.gov/news/speeches/the-threat-posed-by-the-chinese-government-and-the-chinese-communist-party-to-the-economic-and-national-security-of-the-united-states

          It’s China that poses the problem today, but having foreign nationals from places without the best IP protections in our tech sector is NOT a recipe for security for the US.

      4. Any student that can afford $50,000 per year tuition plus the cost of room and board in the U.S. can easily afford Internet service anywhere in the world. There’s these things called “satellites”.

    4. “The Trump administration is using the pandemic to rid the country of foreigners”

      Woohoo! #AmericaFirst!

      More Shikha pants-shitting invariably means more winning for America.

      1. Yes, that is the delightful icing on this cake. Shikha shitting her pants. So stinky.

  3. If the entire purpose of a student visa is to take in-class classes, then how is it irrelevant that a student visa becomes irrelevant if there are no in-class classes?

    To make such a case, one would have to also argue that any student who wants to take an online course at a US university should be able to sit in an American apartment to get online. And apparently only because there might not be great internet access at home.

    Another equally stupid suggestion here is that American universities will somehow not be able to charge whatever market bears for their online degree. Is it presumed that Harvard will now go broke because no foreign student will want a Harvard degree, even if that’s all they offer? How does sitting in a home country make a Harvard degree so much less desirable than if the same student got the same online degree sitting in American apartment?

    Perhaps most reprehensible is the idea that universities will go broke if they can’t get low-paid foreigners to do the dirty work that Americans don’t want to do. I recall reading about plantation owners making the same claim about 160 years ago. Democrats are at it again.

    1. But its much harder to overstay your visa online.

      1. Bullshit. I have to re-login after every 5 minutes of non activity.

        1. Use MouseJiggle. It simulates activity to keep you online.

    2. Cheese and rice, my daughter is a foreign student. She goes to Bet school in Grenada at St George. They shut down in early March when all their native cruise ship workers started coming home. She finished the semester online, and they will go online for fall semester. There is no need for her to be in Grenada, and she won’t be let back in until the school re-sponsors her arrival.

      This is so simple as to be baffling as to why it isn’t immediately apparent to these idiots and Shikhaheads

      1. It’s only racist when America does it, because Trump or somesuch.

  4. Ugh. Things just keep getting worse for Reason.com’s billionaire benefactor Charles Koch and his open borders agenda. Fortunately Joe Biden will implement unlimited, unrestricted immigration on his first day in office.

    Hang in there Mr. Koch. In January you’ll no longer have to deal with the crushing disappointment of only being worth $50,000,000,000.

    #OpenTheBordersToHelpCharlesKoch
    #50BillionIsntEnough

    1. Well…Technically February. Geritol Joe will take a while to get his shit together.

      #WillGeritolJoeEvenRemember?

  5. The only part I disagree with is making them go back mid-semester. You have to sign a lease to get a place to live; they should be allowed to stay for the term if they were enrolled in in-person classes even if those classes are later canceled.

    “Basically to purge as many immigrants from the country as possible before the November elections”

    What do the elections have to do with it? It’s not like these students are voting. Does anyone really think that sending students home is going to be a major Trump talking point for the elections? Do you think he wouldn’t have done the same in 2017, 2018, or 2019 given the same situation? I don’t get why you impart this motive. (Plus, if this were the motive, wouldn’t he need to couple that with encouraging, not discouraging, lockdowns for it to be effective? Or do you think that is just some secretly genius reverse psychology so liberal colleges lock down just to spite him, and they thus send the immigrants home?)

    “Also, one major attraction of an American education is the opportunity to experience American life and build networks with faculty and interact with peers from across the world. All of that will go out of the window if these kids are forced to return home.”

    Hasn’t nearly all of that gone out the window anyway if classes are all-online due to a lockdown? Even the generic “experience American life” wouldn’t be up to its usual standards.

    1. “What do the elections have to do with it? It’s not like these students are voting.”

      I sure hope not, except in Shreeka’s fantasy world.

      As for students experiencing American campus life, why would we want even more coddled, ideological young people?

    2. “What do the elections have to do with it?”

      Shikha routinely freaks out about the end of immigrants and forsakes all rational thought in doing so.

  6. This is the stupidest act of incompetent xenophobia I’ve seen yet. And it will backfire spectacularly.

    People in the ‘ruling class’ throughout the Third World have been sending their kids to study here since their colonial ties were broken. It’s the primary reason the US has been able to step into that vacuum. Those kids mostly return home. And become the business elites and political elites and cultural elites. US companies that want to sell there hire them because they are familiar with US culture/practices and we sure as fuck aren’t familiar with local culture/practices. Our diplomatic and political/military connections are all with those folks. they are close to 100% of the positive pro-US influencers in much of the world.

    They will have no problem going to Europe or better parts of Asia next year. Those countries have done a better job containing covid anyway. And they are way ahead of us in figuring out how colleges do the in-person stuff again – which is far more important to those foreign students – the networking/connection aspect – than to American students. And they will build lifetime connections with Europe/Asia not the US

    But wait. That’s not all. For a limited time and less than $19.99, we can also gut higher education of the only training they do that’s worth much.

    Majors of International Students in the US
    Engineering – 230k
    Biz/Mgmt – 200k
    Math/CompSci – 175k
    Misc – 88k
    Social Science – 83k
    Physical Science/Bio – 77k
    Fine Arts – 62k
    Medical – 35k
    English – 25k
    Journalism – 22k
    Education – 18k
    Humanities – 17k
    Law/Police – 16k
    Agriculture – 12k

    Once US companies realize their STEM pipeline is gone and all that’s left is Intergender Basketweaving, then watch how fast they leave the US.

    1. “People in the ‘ruling class’ throughout the Third World have been sending their kids to study here since their colonial ties were broken. It’s the primary reason the US has been able to step into that vacuum. Those kids mostly return home. And become the business elites and political elites and cultural elites.”

      Huh? Are you championing the global nepotism of the dictator class? I thought you were all anti-corrupt ruling class and all that crap.

      1. Right or wrong doesn’t much matter. The REALITY is that the US is the major beneficiary of keeping that shit going. We ARE the status quo power in the world. And unless we know the consequences of ending it – and intend the consequences – and prepare for it ahead of time – then the US is massively harmed by it just – ending.

        1. If they “mostly return home”, then your entire point is moot.

          The US is by far the 3rd largest population in the world, so this idea that we must absorb more and more and more indefinitely is ludicrous on its face. Seriously, with your theory, how does Japan manage to have the 3rd largest economy in the world with a little more than a third our population and less than 2% foreign born population?

          Sadly, people like you have existed throughout US history. In the 1960s, “we need brown people to pick our lettuce or we are economically doomed”. In the 1860s, “we need brown people to run our plantations or we are economically doomed”.

    2. Compare that to overall majors of all students in 2016/7:
      Biz/mgmt – 372,000
      Health/med – 229,000
      Soc sci – 161,000
      Psychology – 117,000
      Biology/biomed – 114,000
      Engineering – 107,000
      Fine Arts – 93,000
      Journal/Comm – 93,000
      Math/CompSci – 95,000
      etc

      Prob gotta divide the international numbers in the comment above by four to get a reasonable estimate of the % of these majors that is foreign-students

    3. And many don’t go home. The vast majority of Chinese STEM students plan to stay in the US, particularly those in graduate programs. That means we get to keep all their knowledge and innovation, and not the Chinese government.

      1. Except most of them still work for the Chinese government. It’s why China can make knock offs of our stuff almost immediately.

        1. It’s why they reportedly already have the F-35.

      2. Who do you think steals it?

      3. LMAO.

        They stay for grad school and are pressured into spying by the Chicoms

    4. So basically it means Americans will be now hired for STEM jobs, instead of people who work for 1/2 the money and owe fealty to their employer, because they control the visa.

      There’s no shortage of STEM graduates from the US. They just don’t get hired as much as foreigners, because it costs more and they can’t be controlled.

      1. So basically it means Americans will be now hired for STEM jobs

        No. It means that maybe 40-50% of the STEM graduates hired each year just – disappear. That does not increase demand for American STEM’s. The companies will go where they can recruit in sufficient numbers. There is a reason that Stanford, MIT, UTAustin, etc were ‘seeds’ around which tech companies grew – and stay even when it is fucking outrageously more expensive because of housing/etc. Kill those seeds – and sit back and watch how fast those plants die.

        Not to mention that many of those STEM professors are also now foreign. They too will be seeking opportunities to teach where the students are.

        I actually kind of hope Trump wins now. Because this sort of action makes for a once-in-a-lifetime investment bet

        1. Totes, jfree.
          America is so shitty and Americans are so stupid that’s it’s definitely going to collapse without the foreigners propping it up.
          Good call

          1. No no whole companies will pick up and move rather than recruit locally.

            It is known.

        2. No. It means that maybe 40-50% of the STEM graduates hired each year just – disappear. That does not increase demand for American STEM’s. The companies will go where they can recruit in sufficient numbers

          Only a fucking idiot like you would think traveling the world combing the weeds for STEM grads is more financially sound than recruiting locally.

          1. Hahaha. You twits have no fucking clue how global businesses operate do you. They won’t need to ‘travel the world combing for weeds’.

            They will see where those students go to study. Which of the top100 engineering schools worldwide are expanding to accommodate them. And start recruiting locally THERE. With a HUGE first-mover advantage for the first couple years. And then as they start working with those schools – here do this project, wanna intern here this summer? – those schools rise up the rankings and US schools tumble and those schools will become the choice for prospective foreign students wondering where to go for college.

            They will have no problem selling current foreign employees to relocate to the new locations. UK, Singapore, Switzerland, etc aren’t exactly shitholes. Given that tech companies already have deeply entrenched notions that non-managers over say 35 are approaching obsolescence/dementia, it won’t take too long before they become, in fact, ‘foreign’ tech companies.

            1. Only a fucking idiot like you, the cowardly bitch who made a fool of himself crying stupidly about a cold, would double down on the moronic assertion that combing the weeds for STEM grads is more financially sound than recruiting locally.

              1. Ah – so you’ve stolen someone elses ID again Tulpa

                1. ah you’re still a cowardly bitch who made a fool of himself crying stupidly about a cold, who doubles down on the moronic assertion that combing the weeds for STEM grads is more financially sound than recruiting locally.

                  1. Hey just because I’m a pants shitting retard doesn’t mean I’m wrong aboutctgis.

                    The fact that I’m completely wrong is why I’m wrong about this

          2. And hey – if you wanna see how easy it will be for foreign engineering schools to raid a school like say MIT (#1 engineering school on the above link) when MIT loses half their engineering students? – A list of MIT engineering faculty. What do you think happens to MIT’s ranking when their faculty leave for greener pastures and more students?

            Or maybe you think the ivy on the outside of the buildings will hold their ranking up?

            1. I know you’re an idiot who thinks traveling the world combing the weeds for STEM grads is more financially sound than recruiting locally.

        3. Soo… a plant that is already alive doesn’t need seeds to continue thriving- in fact, seeds that result in competition from a plant’s own descendants can actually harm it, as it now needs to compete for previously un-scarce resources.

          1. This is totally accurate. In most years perennial grasses produce non-viable seed. The percentage of viable seeds actually increases during years of stress, i.e. drought or cold weather. This is an evolutionary trait that insures the survival of the plant and the species. Fruiting trees also produce more fruit when stressed than during wet, warm years. Lilacs will often not bloom if there is adequate or above adequate water. Wheat, within certain limits, produces more and better quality grains during more stressed years then during plentiful years (however, the number of plants increases during plentiful years). During periods of abundance, even mammals and birds often produce less offspring (see birthrates in industrialized rich countries). Of course there is a limit, extreme drought or cold can also decrease reproduction.

            1. Interesting, soldier. Do you have a source? I am genuinely interested, and not disputing you.

              1. It is kind of my job, I am an extension agent in agriculture and horticulture. But as for citations I will find some for you.

          2. Societies have seeds. You might be familiar with the concept of children, as they have been the seed of every society that has ever existed and are a very successful concept. Can we just say that any society that has a population of over 300M and the third largest in the world has little danger of collapsing on itself from inbreeding?

            Nah, the US would be fine without further dilution.

            1. Hell, even a little inbreeding, e.g. cousin marriage, is really not dangerous unless done for several generations. In animal husbandry cousin interbreeding is fairly common, though not dominant. And in fact all Arab horses can be tracked back to two studs, and every Holstein in America can be traced back to a single bull.

        4. Something like 70% of Americans with STEM degrees do not work in those fields. There is not a shortage of them. H1-b and other laws have filled the country with low wage, fearful foreigners doing STEM jobs. It is literally true that an employer can force a foreign employee to leave the country because their visa is contingent on employment. That is total power – Americans won’t get those jobs. You can bet plenty of corporate money went to the legislators who inserted that in the law. The only reason large numbers of STEM foreigners are here is to keep salaries low – that is what Congress wants.

          1. Democrats have always wanted foreign workers to come in and “do the jobs that Americans won’t do”. Up till 1865, they were sure that plantations would collapse without it. In the 1950s-70s, the threat was that food budgets would collapse without people to pick that cabbage, 2000s it was the threat that hospitality and food processing industries would collapse without. Now it’s the threat that we won’t have anyone who wants to clean the science labs and education will collapse without it.

      2. That is just bullshit, at least as far as the physical sciences go. There aren’t enough domestic students interested in those fields. It’s due to a lot of things:
        – the math requirements for STEM fields, which are ‘high’ by highschool standards, and highschools tend to do a shitty job in teaching math anyway;
        – it’s not ‘sexy’ or ‘fun’ to think about going to college for 8-10 years for a B.S./M.S./Ph.D. degree, and not get the same type of salary that an M.D. would get
        – there is this perception that one has to be a world-class genius in order to just set foot in the lab. Sure you need some talent, but you don’t need to be some Einstein-level genius to do well in the sciences.

        Look at graduate schools in the physical sciences. They are majority foreign students now. Even though it COSTS THEM more to have foreign students over domestic students.

        If you make the environment hostile to foreign science students here, what will happen is that talented domestic students will just go to foreign labs to get their degrees.

        1. I saw some survey aways back of when US students begin to lose interest in math/science. Apparently it’s about 5th or 6th grade. speculation was that that is roughly the level of science knowledge among elementary school teachers. That they can’t teach beyond that and have to rely on the textbooks to teach. Students who are self-motivated or good at it can progress. Those who aren’t just have roughly a two-year hole where they learn nothing, get discouraged, and tune out. By the time they get into 7th grade (assuming better teachers in secondary), they can’t catch up.

          1. Apparently it’s about 5th or 6th grade. speculation was that that is roughly the level of science knowledge among elementary school teachers.

            It’s about that time when the approach to science education shifts away from “let’s blow shit up and see what happens”, to “here’s all the shit you have to memorize for the standardized exams”.

            America does a poor job at science education, and yet DESPITE that, American universities are still the world-class place to go for cutting-edge scientific research. It’s because of a preponderance of foreign talent and the traditional openness that academic science has had with regards to internationalism. But the MAGA idiots around here want to take it all for granted, punish the universities because they saw some outrage culture war article on Breitbart, and because they want to pretend that it’s the 1950’s and 1960’s again when there were droves of kids in American schools interested in science and couldn’t wait to go get their degrees in physics and chemistry and engineering.

            There was a time when America was a scientific backwater of the world, and those in America who were talented in science had to go to Europe to get serious scientific training. That could happen again, except this time around they won’t be going to Europe, they’ll be going to China.

    5. First of all, President Donald J. Trump made an already-horrible situation worse when, back in December of 2019 and January 2020, when the Covid-19 virus was still relatively easy to contain, he acted in a criminally irresponsible manner by not responding to it soon enough, and it got to this point.

      Secondly, there are too many assholes here in the United States that refuse to follow the rules of wearing face masks when out in public, and social distancing from each other, because they don’t care who they sicken and/or kill.

      Thirdly, when these fucktards refuse to abide by the rules, they totally screw other people.

      1. 1st point. Every democrat on television called him racist for banning flights from China. There’s no evidence whatsoever that aby democrat wanted travel banned even earlier. Nancy Pelosi and bill deblasio were telling people to go out and party in their cities Chinatowns the same week trump banned flights from China.

        2nd point. Tell that to all the protestors that clearly caused the recent spikes in Seattle, L.a., new York, Atlanta, and Miami. Apparently you’re racist because you think BLM protestors are assholes for not socially distancing. Thanks for exposing yourself, racist.

        3rd point. Tell that to the BLM protestors you racist. My god you’re the most racist person in these comments, how disgusting you are.

        1. Now now. Didn’t we have the doctors tell us something like protesting for social justice will make the virus not attack you or your friends. I seem to recall a letter with about 1000 signatories saying something to that effect, or at least that COVID isn’t *so* dangerous that you should *not* protest for social justice…but don’t think about protesting against COVID lockdowns because that’s so bad you’ll kill grandma instantly.

    6. Once U.S. Companies realize they’re stem pipeline us gone maybe Democrats and liberals like you will start addressing your failed inner city schools, funded by democrats, legislated by democrats, and worked by their teacher union democrat donating shills, that average less than 15% proficiency in math among graduates. Here in pittsburgh its worse than that, its about 6% proficiency in math and about 17% in english. That means over 80% of grads from pittsburgh city schools are too stupid to both read or add at a 12th grade level. Its no wonder they love marxism, theyre too stupid to read animal farm.

      And also, maybe you’ll start talking about the dangers of the BLM movement designating stem, and specifically math, as racist endeavors that have been controlled by and manipulated by white people to oppress black people.

  7. They are here to go to school. They can’t go to school because school is closed.

  8. Yesterday Shikha proves she diesnt u understand temporary work visas. Today she doesnt understand student visitor visas.

    At this point shes just proving she is an idiot.

    1. I think she’s at least intelligent enough to understand them. She just doesn’t care. Crying about how unfair Trump is keeps a paycheck coming her way.

  9. If there was any doubt that the Trump administration will seize on any and every pretext to slam immigrants,

    Foreigners coming to the US to study arrive on a non-immigrant F-1 visa. Shikha couldn’t even get through the first sentence without screwing up.

    Also it should be “If there were any doubt…” (Subjunctive case.)

    1. Stop language shaming an ESL you racist.

  10. Wait a minute…if they’re taking classes online, they can do that from anywhere in the world, can’t they? So what’s the beef?

    1. Not necessarily, no.

      1. Which of course in no way is anyone’s problem but theirs.

      2. Of course they can. The idea that the US is the only place they can go to get reliable internet is nearly as idiotic and narcissistic as the idea that POC can’t get a free State ID. Hell, if a Republican said such a thing, you’d instantly and correctly label it as racist bullshit and ignorance. Please name the country where people can afford the $50-70K/yr for tuition and support but can’t get to a website. You can’t.

        Even if your theory is that there might be some rural Indian farm-boy this scenario fits, it’s universally the case that it would be far cheaper for him to move to a homeland city and get an apartment than it would be to live any university city in the US.

        Lastly and the above aside, the idea that there might be some kid somewhere who can qualify for admission, his parents are rich enough to afford a US university, but he can’t get an internet connection, really isn’t a US problem.

        1. Especially when the 5g corona hoax was being propogated and the international world was acting like America was full of cavemen because every major U.S. city didnt have 5g yet.

          Apparently the world’s 5g got tossed out with our student visas.

  11. I’d guess that this is financial pressure from the administration to force colleges to reopen. Young people in their twenties are more at risk of catching an STD at college than getting ill from the ‘Rona. Seriously. And the college admin and students both are overwhelmingly liberal, and want to keep things closed- until November 3rd. Then, everything is back open, with Sleepy Joe signing whatever horrible, socialist, bullshit bill he his handed. Or maybe he just retires day one and let’s Kamila Harris fascist all over the place.

    1. That is exactly what it is.

      1. Which Trump basically said. He is also threatening public schools that remain closed this fall with loss of federal funding. He must hate kids too.

        1. Of course nobody is pointing out the fact that schools on average only receive 10% of their funding from the federal government [unconstitutionally] and that if the schools are closed, the costs of running buses, power, and costs of maintenance and repair are significantly reduced or non-existent with teachers only teaching online. Why should they get a full budget when they aren’t open for business?

      2. Sure John. It’s all a big conspiracy to get Biden elected.

        You all are nuts sometimes.

  12. So what’s the beef?

    Some browns aren’t getting everything they want and Droit du seigneur too.

  13. Trump would be crazy not to stick it to Academy while they’re down.
    MAGA GOOD AND HARD

  14. Missing from this propaganda piece about a “chilling” effect is any evidence that a legal sanction is inhibiting the natural or legal rights of these non-immigrant foreign students. I used to expect a lot more from Dalmia, but in this case, arguing that online-only students have a human right to come to the United States to access the superior internet connections here is as laughable and ignorant, as it is totally expected from this hack.

    Sadly, Dalmia’s polemics of recent years show her to care more for immigrants from her racial background, than the truth. In this case, if their desire is more to be present in the United States, than to pursue their studies, then they should be permanently barred from entry to the United States.

    As an assimilating immigrant from a minority background, I have no problem telling the unassimilated racist Shikha Dalmia to pound sand.

    1. I’m having a hard time getting worked up about the possibility that colleges are going to get cornholed by the loss of revenue from international students.

      Christ, haven’t we been talking for years about how these places are indoctrination centers for woke idiocy? Why the hell should I get sad if these places are undermined because they can’t prop up their bloated diversity and admin budgets with overpriced tuition from Chinese trust fund kids?

      1. The point is that without in-person classes, there is no rational reason for these so-called students to remain in the USA. Since there is no reason for them to remain, there is no reason to give them visas to enter the United States. The universities want the students to stay, because the cachet of an elite university still means something monetarily. Ms Dalmia’s writing over the last few years reveals she wants more people of her ethnicity in the United States, reason (and “Reason”) be damned.

      2. I’m having a hard time getting worked up about the possibility that colleges are going to get cornholed by the loss of revenue from government subsidies for international students.

        I fixed it: it’s even worse than what you said.

        As an assimilating immigrant from a minority background, I have no problem telling the unassimilated racist Shikha Dalmia to pound sand.

        Same here.

        People like Shikha is who I wanted to get away from when I immigrated to the US.

      3. Of course, Shikha is a woke idiot, so there’s that.

    2. My sister lives in suburban DC and her entire street is in a dead zone. A stone’s throw from the nation’s capital and it’s impossible to make cell calls!

      1. You probably use Verizon, their service is notoriously stonewalled by concrete or masonry. I had them for a year and will never go back, I lost service in every basement or brick house I ever entered with that phone

    3. arguing that online-only students have a human right to come to the United States to access the superior internet connections here is as laughable and ignorant
      If you follow tech sites, you will see that foreigners mock our internet because we can’t cover the country in 100 Mb connections. Theirs is superior.

      1. Exactly my point, yet that is an argument Dalmia made in this article. If she, you know, actually _read_ the magazine she works for, then she would know she was lying.

      2. Same with 5g as i mentioned above. When the 5g hoax was going around the international community was aghast to discover every major u.s. City didnt have 5g yet.

  15. Given that aliens (no, not the cattle mutilating kind) have no inherent right to be in the United States, perhaps “reason” can explain why it values them over citizens. Or are you onboard (hah) with Kevin Williamson and the Uhaul theory?

  16. This will be good for the housing shortages and high housing costs in urban areas of California and other states.

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  18. This is the extent of how much I care about this issue – is it illegal for Trump to do this? If so, then stop him. If not, then I could care less if all foreign students are kicked out because their schools won’t offer in person classes. Seriously I don’t care.

    The nation is being taken over by a Jacobins. Buildings are burning, businesses are suffering, children are being shot on streets and the mob is set to cancel anyone who doesn’t play their new rules. Academia would erase every history or employee who doesn’t conform to their new world order of racial utopia where every whiff of “racism” will now be purged. Cry me a river over foreign students being sent home. You want them to stay, offer in person classes or something. Stop your whining.

    America has so many foreigners that in states like CA Latinos make up half of all cases and more than quarter of all deaths. The most unemployed people in NY are Asians. People of all colors can’t make rent. Do we seriously need MORE immigration now, in a pandemic? This has become an obsession at Reason, an all consuming crusade – “Just let them all in and our problems are solved!”

    Speaking of dead Latinos, the foreigner loving ruling class sure didn’t care when protesters broke every social distancing protocol known to men and then likely spread it to Latinos when they hit Starbucks and Mcdonalds. The biggest spike in new cases occurred around June 16th. George Floyd died on May 25th. Show me again how these people care about non white lives.

    1. Cry me a river over covid. Death rates are less than 1% of infection. We already know the numbers have been inflated anyway so why are pudh the propaganda while criticizing reason.com for doing the same?

      1. You cannot possibly be so atuoud as to think that question makes sense.

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  20. You come here on a student visa to attend class. If you can do the class online you don’t need a visa. You can do the same class in your home country.

  21. Dalmia is chilling.

  22. A bunch of issues here.

    First the obvious, if you a doing online education, you do not need to reside in the US. None of these students are US citizens so they have no right to be in the US in the first place. Their being here is a privilege and privileges can be revoked. It’s not complicated.

    Second, student visas have long been a well known dodge on legal immigration where the student becomes an illegal alien at the expiration of their visa. Many of the programs brining students over offer a dubious education at best. The myriad “English language” programs in NYC come to mind. A crackdown has been needed for quite some time.

    Third, and this is less often discussed, is the role of student visas in espionage. More than a few of these students are actually working for their home government either stealing technology in the case of STEM program attendees or monitoring their overseas citizens as is the case with the Chinese.

  23. I don’t understand why so many of you are eager to kick out these students. They basically function as tourists, don’t they? They come to the US and spend their money. Why are you motivated to get rid of them?

    What am I missing?

    1. What is them being glorified “tourists” have to do with anything? Like I said above, these institutions are now open indoctrination centers for radical left ideology. If losing the tuition revenue that these places rely on to pay for their stupid diversity and left-wing grievance offices, then in the broad sense I’m all for it.

      If they’re going to be “tourists,” let them get a tourist visa and fuck around the country on their parents’ dime, without subsidizing institutions whose mission has become the transformation of the country into some critical theory-inspired shithole.

    2. I don’t understand why so many of you are eager to kick out these students. They basically function as tourists, don’t they? They come to the US and spend their money.

      University students in the US are heavily subsidized. Even those foreign students who pay full tuition pay less than what it costs to support them.

      Do you think tourism would be a winner for the US if government subsidized the price of any tourist traveling to the US by 70%? What kind of incentive structure do you think that would create for airlines and hotels?

      The subsidies aren’t just a drain on US tax payers, they are also the reason why US education is so ridiculously expensive.

    3. This was never about ‘illegal’ immigration. That was always just the alt-right wedge to get rid of foreigners and restore some vision of pre-1965 America. Course they’re not really honest about the particulars of that vision – but then neither are the watermelon socialists of the green movement honest about the particulars of their vision. Those sort are never honest about anything.

      And regardless of the particulars (eg are all women barefoot and pregnant or just duly married white middle-class women not on welfare) – they can all agree no freaking foreigners.

      1. Heck this was obvious way before Trump’s election when you would ask the pro-Trump folks why illegal immigration was such an important issue to them, and their typical answers had very little to do with the illegal part. It was all about ‘muh jobs’, ‘muh culture’, ‘vote for democrats’, etc., etc. In other words, grievances about foreigners generally, both the legal and the illegal ones.

  24. What should be “horrifying” is that Harvard charges $50000 for online-only instruction.

    What should be “horrifying” is that taxpayers pay the bill to enroll foreign students in US universities to get up enrollment numbers and justify massive subsidies.

  25. never mind that many of them have been paying full tuition fees that run upwards of $50,000 annually at many private nonprofit colleges. International students, 5.5 percent of the higher education population, pumped $41 billion into American universities

    No, they did not. They “contributed” about that much money “to the US economy” (link), which means simply that they create about that much in economic activity. That doesn’t mean they paid that much money in tuition, or that they paid it to universities.

    In fact, graduate students generally don’t pay any tuition at all; they are supported by “assistantships” usually financed by tax payers, and that also covers tuition.

    Universities rely on those contributions to subsidize in-state tuition for American kids

    The majority of a university’s budget comes from sources other than tuition. Even students paying full tuition are a net minus since they are subsidized from other sources. Usually, the subsidies come from governments, even at private universities.

    Foreign students are an accounting trick for US universities to extract more money from US tax payers.

    The lying just never stops with Shikha.

    Also: ICE isn’t “kicking out students”, Harvard is, by needlessly acting like an overpriced online diploma mill. Harvard has a choice, and it should hold its classes on campus in the fall, period.

  26. Here’s what the Trumpistas don’t realize: Foreign students help fund our modern university system. Next to the state and Federal taxpayer, they are the largest source of university revenue. In most cases they aren’t even getting help from their native countries.

    1. So what you’re saying is that if we cut off this funding source for academia, academia is hurt? How is that not a good thing? Academia is largely now just a factory for woke “something studies” graduates who are now out burning down cities and tearing down statues. And a non-trivial number of the foreign STEM students are actively engaging in espionage.

      1. So what you’re saying is that if we cut off this funding source for academia, academia is hurt? How is that not a good thing?

        Someone has to discover the next medicines for important diseases. Who do you think it is going to be? Big Pharma funds projects for boner pills that will give them lots of revenue. You don’t see them doing a lot about, say, tropical diseases because the people who are likely to get tropical diseases are poor.

        1. Someone has to discover the next medicines for important diseases. Who do you think it is going to be?

          Research is substantially cheaper and more efficient in their home countries.

          Big Pharma funds projects for boner pills that will give them lots of revenue.

          They do that. They also work on vaccines, cancer treatments, and a lot of other important stuff. Conversely, academia puts shrimp on treadmills and studies lesbian courtship in ant eaters.

          Academia is a net minus even in the US, by sucking up talented individuals and tons of funding to work on projects that don’t even produce boner pills.

          1. They do that. They also work on vaccines, cancer treatments, and a lot of other important stuff. Conversely, academia puts shrimp on treadmills and studies lesbian courtship in ant eaters.

            So in other words, in your mind, academia *only* does the stuff that generates outrage in conservative media. Got it.

            Ever wonder why conservative media only puts articles concerning academia that are intended to get their audience outraged? Do you think there is an agenda that the Breitbarts and the Fox Newses are pushing, to foster a culture war narrative about “librul kollidge” vs. “real muricans”?

            I’m not sure if you seriously believe this shit that universities don’t do anything but put shrimp on treadmills, or that you know it is right-wing propaganda but don’t mind spreading it ‘for the cause’.

            1. So in other words, in your mind, academia *only* does the stuff that generates outrage in conservative media. Got it.

              Saying that “X does Y” is not the same as saying that “X only does Y”. I was simply giving an example that the equivalent of “boner pills” also exists in academia.

              In fact, US academic institutions, foreign academic institutions, and private industry all conduct both basic and applied research. Of these different institutions, US academic institutions are the least efficient. And when it comes to medical research, tax payers not only pay for academic research, they also then pay for patents that transfer money to universities, then the research gets transferred to drug companies, and then tax payers pay yet again through Medicare/Medicaid and insurance mandates.

              US academic research is inefficient and a gigantic ripoff of the US tax payer.

      2. Academia is largely now just a factory for woke “something studies” graduates who are now out burning down cities and tearing down statues. And a non-trivial number of the foreign STEM students are actively engaging in espionage.

        Good heavens. Right-wing caricatures of universities have rotted your brain.

        1. Good heavens. Right-wing caricatures of universities have rotted your brain.

          He is right, you are not.

      3. “So what you’re saying is that if we cut off this funding source for academia, academia is hurt? How is that not a good thing?”

        It’s not only a good thing.

        It is a delicious thing.

    2. Here’s what the Trumpistas don’t realize: Foreign students help fund our modern university system. Next to the state and Federal taxpayer, they are the largest source of university revenue.

      Let’s say I offer you a car at cost for $40000 (universities are non-profits). Then I give you a 75% discount so you only pay $10000 and I eat the other $30000 in losses. Are you “helping to fund” my business? Of course not. So this is a lie. As you say yourself: the majority of the cost for educating foreign students is born by US tax payers, making them a net minus.

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  28. In person lectures are overrated.

    These are not children we are talking about. If they cannot handle learning without a school teacher in front of them then they do not belong at MIT. Give them the tools they need. That can include lectures without sitting in an auditorium.

    What a sham farce this is.

  29. “will seize on any and every pretext to slam immigrants”

    An international student is not an immigrant and if classes are online only that can be accomplished from their home country.

    “one major attraction of an American education is the opportunity to experience American life and build networks with faculty and interact with peers from across the world. All of that will go out of the window if these kids are forced to return home.”

    Same as with American students so that argument is a wash.

  30. “But this is a diabolical plan whose only purpose is to feed this administration’s obsessive and irrational hostility towards foreigners and immigrants. There is really no other explanation.”

    Except of course there is and there is nothing diabolical about it. (One would think a journalist would actually do some research before spouting off.) It’s called the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) which details the specifics regarding all of the visa categories. And then each visa category comes with other stipulations depending upon the country of the applicant (because of quotas/differing fraud patterns).

    If State issues a visa to a person for a specific category, then it means that person intends to enter the US only for the purposes of that specific category (e.g. this is why you can’t legally enter on the Visa Waiver Program with a 6 month B1/B2 visa and seek employment). Students who have one of the student visas affected by this policy will not be meeting the terms of the visa category if a university closes its campus and holds online classes only. That they let students stay for spring semester 2020 because it was chaotic and no one knew the timeframe *was* the beneficent thing you claim the government won’t do. But to have a student return home and then re-enter on their student visa when we now know that many campuses will be closed? That is another thing entirely. Now ICE would be in the position of letting people enter on a visa where both parties know in advance that they don’t meet the terms of the visa, aka fraud.

    And then of course, once it was known that one visa class was getting a break to make it easier to enter the US, then cue the slew of but my visa ….. excuses to get similar treatment to other visa classes and it would be unmanageable.

    The president’s job, regardless of what you think about him, is to faithfully execute the law. ICE is doing that. That you don’t like the outcome, or what the law says (except you didn’t bother to look at that), you would realize that what needs to be amended is the INA to take online education into account. So your beef is with Congress, not the president.

    But sure. Just blame it on irrational hostility towards foreigners. Crack reporting job you’re doing there Shikha Dalmia.

  31. This is not about the foreign students.

    This is about punishing the universities.

  32. This is all about Trump’s “America First” policies, and about his reelection campaign. He is playing to his base, keeping his promises to enforce his xenophobia, pretending to protect American jobs, showing no understanding of the beauty and wonder of economic freedom, no clue what the term “free market” really means. Trump is just being Trump, displaying his meanness and pettiness and cruelty in the process.

    1. He is playing to his base

      Why would any politician “play to his base”? Elections aren’t decided by one’s base, they are decided by swing voters.

      keeping his promises to enforce his xenophobia,

      Take it from an immigrant: most other countries and cultures really do suck; anybody who wishes multiculturalism for the US is a fool.

      pretending to protect American jobs, showing no understanding of the beauty and wonder of economic freedom, no clue what the term “free market” really means.

      We are going to be choosing between two candidates. Both candidates suck, but one candidate, namely Biden, is an authoritarian and a socialist, the other one is not. I think they choice for anybody who cares about the free market is clear.

  33. Big colleges rely on the legal foreign student for the most part they are paying in full..if they can’t meet requirements to maintain the qualification for their student status or break our laws, they should be removed as qualified and made to leave…if you don’t like the laws for this, then begin to make the changes to suit your ideas and force the schools and gov to make the changes legally…We owe illegals nothing but politics are always trying to use these people for nefarious acts and we sure as hell don’t need to pay them to break the immigration law…..There are hundreds of thousands clamoring to come here legally and I think we have the right to pick and choose to satisfy our own immigration standards….

    1. They are here legally.

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