4th of July

Despite Its Government's Antics, America Has Made Moral Progress in a Difficult Time

That's not the case in countries with authoritarian rulers who want to believe that America is just like them.

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New York Times columnist Michelle Goldberg recently pointed out that 2020 started off like 1974 (an impeachment crisis), quickly became 1918 (a pandemic), turned into 1929 (an economic crash), and then became 1968 (massive urban unrest). Any country that endured so much in so short a time would lose its way. But over the last month, despite the increasing political polarization and strife, America has made some real moral progress on issues of racial justice. That is a far cry from many other countries, including India, my native land, where the pandemic has aborted the struggle to win basic rights and protections for persecuted minorities.

The turmoil in America after a cop's brutal murder of George Floyd is giving authoritarian rulers around the world a serious bout of schadenfreude. China's state media has gone into an overtly gloating mode. The Global Times' editor-in-chief wrote that he hoped U.S. politicos were enjoying what they were seeing "from their own windows," given that Nancy Pelosi "once called the violent protests in Hong Kong 'a beautiful sight to behold.'" During a phone call with Trump to discuss the pandemic, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi took the opportunity to express concern about the "ongoing civil disturbances in the U.S." and wished Trump luck in bringing things under control, slyly suggesting that America's travails with black agitation were no different from India's with Muslim unrest.

And truth be told, judging by government tactics during the protests, there often isn't much that separates the land of the free from other countries.

American law enforcement has responded to the protests over police brutality with…police brutality. It has deployed the same methods—tear gas, rubber bullets, batons—that China and India have deployed against protesters. And just like the leaders of those countries, Trump has suggested protesters are "thugs." The Chinese media might be overstating matters by suggesting that its autocrats have responded to Hong Kong's pro-democracy protesters with more restraint. But Trump doesn't exactly help by repeatedly tweeting "Law & Order" to signal the iron fist of the state. Or when he fantasizes openly about unleashing the most "vicious dogs and the most awesome weapons" against demonstrators.

And then there was his Bible photo-op, which primarily served to remind religious conservatives to stick with him through this period of unrest, just as he is sticking with them. This is exactly in line with Modi donning traditional Hindu saffron attire to rally his base, especially when he's in political trouble.

But the moral compass of a country is not set by what the government does; it's set by how the people respond to what the government does. And on that there is a world of difference between America and many other countries, especially India.

India's Muslims are struggling not to upgrade themselves from their status as second-class citizens but just to remain citizens. Modi is an unabashed Hindu nationalist whose first act last August after his landslide re-election was to scrap the governing autonomy of majority-Muslim Kashmir, a northern state bordering Pakistan, and put it under federal control. It was a wildly popular move, even among the country's secularly inclined Hindus, even though Modi put Kashmir's duly elected leaders under house arrest, imposed a curfew, shut down schools, blacked out news, and suspended the internet. (Even during the pandemic, Kashmiris are being forced to travel several hours by train to neighboring states to access the internet and get basic information.)

That's not all Modi did. He also obtained a favorable ruling from the Indian Supreme Court to build a Hindu temple on the site of a mosque that Hindu militants, himself included, razed with their bare hands some decades ago. And then he launched a diabolical scheme to scrap the citizenship of millions of Indian Muslims and ultimately send them to detention camps.

When this triggered protests by India's Muslims and their progressive backers, especially on college campuses, the Modi government responded with brutal violence. The police stormed Muslim colleges and bashed unarmed students, and they allowed private militants associated with Modi's party do the same on a prestigious New Delhi campus.

Hindus have long stereotyped Muslim men as inherently dangerous and excused all kinds of harsh tactics to "domesticate" them. So in the wake of the growing state violence, Muslim women took it upon themselves to use Gandhian tactics of civil resistance to spearhead a movement for Muslim rights. They cobbled together a site in southeast Delhi for a 24/7 vigil, drawing tens of thousands of protesters—many of them Muslims, but also others.

Far from taking their plight seriously, the broader Hindu community complained bitterly about the traffic disruptions, prompting some local Hindu politicians to call the protesters "traitors." The result? Even more violence, resulting in a mini-pogrom in February.

Worse, whatever little goodwill the Muslim women enjoyed evaporated as soon as the pandemic hit. Many Indians openly pilloried them as scientifically backward Neanderthals jeopardizing public health for the sake of an overblown crusade—never mind that many of the protesters took social distancing precautions. Authorities used coronavirus as a pretext to unceremoniously evict them in late March, although the virus didn't stop Modi from holding prayers ahead of breaking ground for the temple on the site of the razed mosque.

Contrast this with how Floyd's murder galvanized the movement against police brutality in America. Spontaneous protests erupted in 2,000 cities and towns across the country. Utah Sen. Mitt Romney, the Republican contender for the presidency in 2012 and not exactly the activist type, joined the Black Lives Matter march in Washington, D.C.

Even when the protests turned rowdy and violent, the broader American public did not turn its back on their cause. In the two weeks immediately after Floyd's death, there was a 20-point jump in support for Black Lives Matter. A Monmouth University poll found that a whopping 76 percent of Americans have come to regard racism and discrimination as a "big problem," up 26 points from 2015. The poll also found that 57 percent of voters thought the anger behind the demonstrations was fully justified.

This is simply stunning, given that when Black Lives Matter was launched in 2013, it was widely regarded as an extremist, America-hating outfit. Now far more people are taking its concerns about systemic racism in policing seriously.

Even the political classes are taking their demands seriously. Confederate symbols are finally being purged everywhere—including such stubborn bastions as Mississippi. (Arguably, the danger now is that the pendulum might swing too much in the opposite direction.) There is growing local momentum for reforming violent policing practices with a dozen states working on laws to ban chokeholds and kneeling on suspects. There is a new openness to experiment with new forms of community policing (some of them rather daft) that don't involve cops, to demilitarize the police, and to scale back police funding.

At the national level, even Trump has realized that simply harrumphing "Law & Order" won't cut it anymore and has signed an executive order encouraging police reform. Police unions are no longer a political sacred cow, not even for Republicans. The GOP has floated a criminal justice reform bill in the Senate to counter the more sweeping reform bill proposed by the Democratic House. The House bill even takes aim at "qualified immunity," the doctrine that has protected rogue cops from civil liability. This has been such a sacrosanct doctrine around the country that The Washington Post's veteran criminal justice writer, Radley Balko, recently observed that if someone had told him two months ago that qualified immunity would be on the political chopping board, he would have laughed.

America obviously has a long way to go to end police brutality and achieve anything approaching full racial justice. (And under Trump, it has taken a disturbingly draconian turn on immigration.) But there is a growing urgency to get there, even during a pandemic and political tumult, which shows just how deeply moral striving is woven into the American psyche. In India, the more the state brutalizes persecuted groups, the more the dominant majority turns on them. Americans, by contrast, never stop facing up to their country's manifold injustices and sins.

That's what makes America great—and will continue to make it better, regardless of the antics of its rulers.

Happy Fourth!

A version of this column appeared in The Week.

NEXT: Today in Supreme Court History: July 4, 1776

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  1. “…America Has Made Moral Progress …”

    Cue the hordes of conservatives-to-fascist-range commenters to come out of underneath their rocks and boulders, and scream at Shikha Dalmia and Reason, that America has done a WAAAAY sub-standard job of sufficiently scapegoating the perennial whipping boy of said troglodytes, which is, of course, the ILLEGAL SUB-HUMANOIDS!!!

    And they can NEVER be bothered with the actual FACTS, which one COULD easily glean by reading the below!

    Here’s a good read for those who still have an open mind… Cato…
    https://www.cato.org/policy-report/januaryfebruary-2019/myths-facts-immigration-policy

    1. Thanks for that. Reason.com is the best source for billionaire-funded open borders advocacy, but Cato is a close second.

      1. SQRLSY One
        July.2.2020 at 5:11 pm
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    2. We’re going broke you stupid motherfucker. We’ve already accumulated nearly $3.5 trillion of new debt just in the first half of this year alone, thanks almost entirely by the welfare explosion created due to the government/media created depression.

      This isn’t 1900 any more. We can’t afford to take care of another hundred million illiterate sad sacks. We have way too few makers and way too many takers in our country as it is now already, and it’s absolutely killing us.

      Happy Independence Day; enjoy what little independence you still have left.

      1. From the cited link:

        Immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated than native‐​born Americans, are less likely to be convicted for crimes, and are less likely to be arrested — all results that have held for about a century. This even extends to illegal immigrants who, based on detailed conviction data from the state of Texas in 2015, have a 50 percent lower criminal conviction rate than native‐​born Americans. In the same year in Texas, the legal immigrant criminal conviction rate was 66 percent below that of natives.

        also this:

        Immigrants also add to our economy by starting businesses and innovating. According to the Kauffman Foundation, immigrants are twice as likely to start a new business as native‐​born Americans. Large firms such as Google and Intel were cofounded by immigrants, but many smaller businesses are, too. In California, the large number of Hispanic low‐​skilled immigrants is reflected in the state’s entrepreneurship figures: about half of the entrepreneurs are high school dropouts. Immigrants were 36 percent of New York City’s population in 2011 but they owned 48 percent of that city’s small businesses.

        1. Wow, Sqrls found new copypasta.
          Come on, Sqrls, bring out your stale Tim the Enchanter/Reason Writer Application stuff for old times sake.

        2. Yes, those are statistics for legal, selective immigration. It does not follow that more immigration will result in more of those benefits.

        3. This just means that we need to arrest more of those dirty brown invaders!

          /sarc

        4. SQRLSY One
          July.2.2020 at 5:11 pm
          Port-a-potties ARE buffets

          LOL

        5. Giventhat we have more immigrants in America today than we’ve had in at least 100 years, if what you said was actually true these really would be the greatest days ever, the country wouldn’t be bankrupt and swirling down the shitter like it is.

          You are so disconnected from reality it’s downright comical.

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  2. Moral progress is not a thing.

      1. Happy 4th!

        1. To you as well!

    1. How so?

      1. Progress is advancement toward a goal
        Morality is the difference between good and bad behavior

        The people who think moral progress exists are the same people who think the ends justify the means. They want to feel better about their ruthless pursuit of political goals. True morality is how you behave in your personal life.

        1. For “good” and “bad” to mean anything, mustn’t there be some goal?

          It doesn’t have to be the political goals of, say, progressives or conservatives. But some goal of some kind.

          “Behave in your personal life” — there’s some goal behind that, isn’t there? Surviving? Thriving? Serving God (if you are religious)? Something, isn’t there?

          1. No, it doesn’t have to be the political goals of anyone, but Shikha is talking about the political goals of progressives and socialists and makes the claim that the BLM protests have resulted in improved overall morality in the country. She has provided no evidence for it. In fact, if anything, it seems to me that far more people are selfish, prideful, and wrathful after the recent protests than before. So in what way have we made progress?

            1. Would like to hear lap83’s reply, since he posited there is good and bad ethics with no context of goals.

              Anyway, Dalmia was just saying that Americans are standing up against injustices perpetrated against blacks people, contrasting that with how Muslims are being treated in India. She does not say that she or Americans are endorsing all of Black Lives Matter’s goals.

              1. Lap83 certainly knows about the increasing tolerance of fringe lifestyles (gay, trans), drugs, and lower crime rates. She seems to be saying morality is not a quantifiable thing. We’re we 42.3% moral in 1980 and 61.7% moral now? Clearly that’s ridiculous.

                1. It’s not quantifiable, but mankind makes ethical progress every once in a while.

                  Example: Oh, maybe slavery is wrong. Maybe we should stop doing that.

          2. mustn’t there be some goal?

            No Jeff now fuck off.

        2. True morality is how you behave in your personal life.

          But you said there is no such thing as moral progress. So it is not possible for someone to start behaving better? What a strange view of the world.

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    3. Yea, but Shitty Shikha wrote this article, so……

  3. Shreika is back, and we all are poorer for it. Lady, you are truly fucked up in the head if you think these rioters are a sign of moral progress.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, —That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

    Let’s be clear…This is what Shreika and her merry band of Progressive a-holes really want. A wholesale destruction of our Federal Republic, and loss of civil rights…the ‘civil rights’ they think we don’t need anymore. Really?

    More than anything, this that she and her merry band of equally twisted compatriots will decide for the rest of us what civil rights we really need to have. That is makes Shreika utterly loathsome.

    1. You poor thing. This probably won’t cheer you up:

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z9NJa1b2hFo

    2. “A Monmouth University poll found that a whopping 76 percent of Americans have come to regard racism and discrimination as a “big problem,” up 26 points from 2015.”

      This is how we crush the clingers. Shove so much progress down their whining, bigoted, right-wing throats that they can’t do much more than try to breathe.

      Open wider, losers.

      1. Yeah, the fact you wrote this and did so in a morally preening, righteous context is exactly what the problem in this country is. Your lack of self awareness and myopic viewpoint is why we are at this point. Well done promulgation that which you condemn .

        1. “This point” is modern, improved, reasoning, science-based, inclusive America.

          I like this point. Not as much as I will like the even more improved America of tomorrow, but I much like modern America.

          Our problems are diminishing, often by replacement.

          1. So you enjoy the push towards single mindset authoritarianism?

            1. He lives for it. Arty has never had any real power in his life. So like his fellow progtards, who are also essentially pussies, he lives vicariously through mob action. Too much a pussy to do anything himself.

              He would cower before any of us in person.

            2. He’s the only one that will be surprised that he’s up against the wall when the revolution comes.

      2. Open your eyes wider, Rev. The places where the worst racism happens, the kind that keeps blacks and non-white hispanics down for political gain, are mostly run by Democrats. There’s a real problem with racism in the US, and it’s mostly coming from your ilk. Maybe you’re some “true believer” who has bought the Democrat lines, but they’re using you, and to them, _every_ pawn on the political chess board is black and expendable – as long as enough of them remain to vote the Ds back in on the basis of fear and broken promises.

        Rahm Emmanuel famously said not to let a tragedy go to waste. You want to know why all this shit is going down? It’s not progress. It’s Ds taking advantage of two tragedies (COVID and fatal police brutality). Why? Because they got _truly_ scared. Of what? Before COVID, black and hispanic employment and real wages were the best they had _ever_ been since we started measuring. The Ds were shitting bricks because they were in real danger of losing their captive voting blocks.

        Dude, _you’re_ the problem.

        1. They’re pushing too far now. Soon we will have a legal pretext to inflict physical harm in them. As they will continue to overplay their hand.

          1. I’d rather things be resolved peacefully. Sadly, however, I’m preparing for a broad array of outcomes. I made it through a six-year Army Reserve enlistment (plus two years of IRR) without getting anywhere remotely close to combat. Now there’s a small, yet non-negligible, chance that I might be forced to defend myself or others right here at home. I loathe this whole situation.

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  4. And just like the leaders of those countries, Trump has suggested protesters are “thugs.”

    Continuing to obfuscate the difference between protesters and rioters makes the protests less effective, not more. Being blatantly dishonest is not an effective tool of persuasion.

    1. “Continuing to obfuscate the difference between protesters and rioters …”

      OK, then, smarty-pants, PLEASE tell us, the “Boston Tea Party” folks… Were they “patriots”, “protestors”, “rioters”, “thugs”, or what? Please justify your answer, with something other than “good guys, ’cause they were on MY side! My nation-tribe, right or wrong!”

      Keep in mind that “Boston Tea Party” folks were dishonest (in participating in “false flags” operations by dressing as Indians, ooops, I mean, Native Americans), and that they destroyed property that was NOT theirs!

      Is it possible that sometimes one must fight fire with fire? And that sometimes… PREPARE your mind, now… The group that WE are in, might be on the WRONG side?

      1. They were revolutionaries. If they’d have lost , they would have been hung for treason. Are you saying this is a revolution?

        1. “Are you saying this is a revolution?”

          It could be! Only those with a crystal ball, or properly tuned and calibrated tin-foil hats, know ahead of time! If it WILL be a revolution, will it be via the ballot box or via bullets? Or perhaps by persuasion? Again, only those with a crystal ball, or properly tuned and calibrated tin-foil hats, know ahead of time!

          Are you afraid to answer my question? Or is your count of neurons too low?

          Again…
          PLEASE tell us, the “Boston Tea Party” folks… Were they “patriots”, “protestors”, “rioters”, “thugs”, or what? Please justify your answer, with something other than “good guys, ’cause they were on MY side! My nation-tribe, right or wrong!”

          1. I did answer your question. It’s not my concern if you don’t like the answer.

            1. “They were revolutionaries.” Piss-poor answer, in sight of the fact that YOU, self-esteemed Brilliant One, CLEARLY implied a bight-line “…difference between protesters and rioters…”.

              Now Brilliant One, PLEASE explain to us, HOW does one know that the Boston Tea Partiers were “revolutionaries”, and those that support anti-police-abuses protests, are not, and will not, be “revolutionaries”?

              My side right, other side wrong, isn’t that correct, unprincipled one?

              1. The mission statements of each group, and, as was stated, the outcome of execution by the British. And the US Revolutionary War. These all give it away, Mary. The current chucklefucks face little in the way of inconvenience for their actions, as much as they and their supporters try to cast them as heroic figures. Loss of limb, life or eyesight is unlikely. Loss of job, they are probably already unemployed. They gain sources to spin endless grievance tales of heroic battles, growing in self-importance each telling.
                Additionally, the Tea Party members believed in freedom, justice. The anti-police protesters quite clearly state they believe in no justice. They are not revolutionaries, they are cowards and bullies. Move the goalposts, Mary.

                1. “…the Tea Party members believed in freedom, justice.”

                  As a Native American, how would you have felt about the Boston Tea Party folks performing their looting under “false flag”, being disguised as Native Americans? In hope that Brits would come and kill some “Injuns” instead of the good white folks? Is this freedom? Is this justice? I mean, for the Native Americans! Can you see things through the eyes of others, perhaps?

                  1. That wasn’t a false flag operation. Do you seriously think some pasty Bostonians could have fooled anybody?

                    Native Americans were symbols of resistance to Britain, of liberty and self governance. That’s why people chose those disguises.

                    1. It’s hard to see pasty skin underneath all that war paint! The Tea Partiers wore Indian war paint! And all of YOUR racist war paint makes it next to impossible for me to see you as a person with a conscience, if you indeed actually have one! HOW many more thin excuses can you make up? Why not just summarize your stance more simply: “Me good guy; good guys good, bad guys bad”?

                    2. Lol, Sqrls lost it.
                      Apparently 18th century motivations and worldview can be squeezed into the zeitgeist of the 21st century wokesters.

                    3. Just so we’re clear, SQRLSY is a fucking Hihn sock. Treat it as such. My crusty cum sock from the 7th grade had at least 40 IQ points on this demented octogenarian piece of subhuman shit. Thankfully he’ll be dead very soon.

                    4. SQRLSY One
                      July.2.2020 at 5:11 pm
                      Port-a-potties ARE buffets

                      LOL

                  2. The Tea Party was a focused response to a very particular unfair tax on tea. Note that no buildings were burned or other goods damaged.

                    The wanton looting and burning of the current crop of thugs is just that, thuggery. You lose….again.

                    1. “Note that no buildings were burned or other goods damaged.”

                      What planet do you live on, Dude? The tea was dumped into the harbor, laden with salt water, and destroyed for its intended use!

                      British investors in the tea trade… SOME of whom doubtlessly sympathized with over-taxed Americans… HOW do you think THEY felt, about the wanton destruction of their investments?

                    2. SQRLSY One
                      July.2.2020 at 5:11 pm
                      Port-a-potties ARE buffets

                      LOL

                    3. The word ‘other’ may be beyond your comprehension.

                    4. “Other” as in the verb “other”? Yes, by claiming that BLM is made out of “other” type people, people “other” than good white folks, we can “other” them, with the following logic:

                      A BLM supposed “leader” (in a fairly leaderless organization) has Marxist sympathies, therefore ALL of BLM is organizationally Marxist!

                      Since they are Marxists, we “other” them, and declare their organizational objectives to be EVIL and WRONG!

                      Ergo, Black Lives do NOT Matter! Blacks are to be “othered”!

                    5. Squirrelly, do you enjoy eating the excrement from black people as much as you do the excrement from white people? If not, you’re a racist.

        2. Are you saying this is a revolution?

          Right now, it’s an insurrection. It would only be reclassified as a revolution if they manage to win.

          We’re in the early post-Fort Sumter stage of the second American Civil War, started, like the last one, by Democrats to keep black people on their plantation.

          Because, if black people remember their roots, and come home to the party that started as and has always been the party of abolition there will BE no more Democrats.

          They won’t be able to win an election that isn’t entirely within one of their lily-white enclaves. Look for a LOT of Democrat controlled HOAs if black people stop voting for them.

      2. The Boston Tea Party demanded independence and self governance.

        Current rioters are Marxists demanding centralized authoritarian government and expropriation of others.

        It’s clear to me which side is morally right and which is morally wrong, and that doesn’t depend on who wins. Marxist revolutions win all the time, that doesn’t make them right.

        1. “Current rioters are Marxists demanding centralized authoritarian government and expropriation of others.”

          Are you a mind-reader with sweeping, broad, generalized psychic abilities? Do you not think that it is perhaps possible that the protesters are actually protesting what they say that they are protesting? Draconian, disproportionate violence against citizens, perhaps, to most especially include black people? Were the first in the current wave of protests triggered by:

          ‘A) The failure of the Government Almighty to confiscate all the means of production?

          ‘B) Or the brutal death of George Floyd?

          It isn’t very kind or considerate on your part, to declare what the motives of others are, without good evidence. WHY are you agitating for NOYB2 to be declared the Eternal Dictator of the Local Galactic Cluster?

          1. I’m going by the explicitly stated “13 Guiding Principles” of BLM.

            What do you think I should be going by?

            1. Lazy didn’t even provide a link! Here:

              https://www.dcareaeducators4socialjustice.org/black-lives-matter/13-guiding-principles

              1. Restorative Justice
              We are committed to collectively, lovingly and courageously working vigorously for freedom and justice for Black people and, by extension all people. As we forge our path, we intentionally build and nurture a beloved community that is bonded together through a beautiful struggle that is restorative, not depleting.

              2. Empathy
              We are committed to practicing empathy; we engage comrades with the intent to learn about and connect with their contexts.

              3. Loving Engagement
              We are committed to embodying and practicing justice, liberation, and peace in our engagements with one another.

              4. Diversity
              We are committed to acknowledging, respecting and celebrating difference(s) and commonalities.

              5. Globalism
              We see ourselves as part of the global Black family and we are aware of the different ways we are impacted or privileged as Black folk who exist in different parts of the world.

              6. Queer Affirming
              We are committed to fostering a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking or, rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual unless s/he or they disclose otherwise.

              7. Trans Affirming
              We are committed to embracing and making space for trans brothers and sisters to participate and lead. We are committed to being self-reflexive and doing the work required to dismantle cis-gender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.

              8. Collective Value
              We are guided by the fact all Black lives, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status or location.

              9. Intergenerational
              We are committed to fostering an intergenerational and communal network free from ageism. We believe that all people, regardless of age, show up with capacity to lead and learn.

              10. Black Families
              We are committed to making our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We are committed to dismantling the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” that require them to mother in private even as they participate in justice work.

              11. Black Villages
              We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, and especially “our” children to the degree that mothers, parents and children are comfortable.

              12. Unapologetically Black
              We are unapologetically Black in our positioning. In affirming that Black Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a necessary prerequisite for wanting the same for others.

              13. Black Women
              We are committed to building a Black women affirming space free from sexism, misogyny, and male‐centeredness.

              Which item is Marxist? What is your definition of Marxist? Anything that you don’t like, or what?

              1. Marxism to me encompasses neo-Marxism and critical race theory.

                People who wrote those 13 Principles explicitly refer to themselves as Marxist and those principles largely reflect the ideas of critical race theory.

                So I’m not sure where your disconnect is. Are you unfamiliar with critical race theory? Or don’t you understand that critical race theory is a Marxist ideology?

                1. “Marxism to me encompasses neo-Marxism and critical race theory.”

                  Way to move the goalposts!

                  Marxism to me encompasses breathing oxygen, you MARXIST you!

                  1. Seeing as neo-Marxism and critical race theory are both Marxist in provenance, no goalposts are being moved.

                    1. Seeing as oxygen-breathing is Marxist in provenance, simply because I say so, AND since being icky-poo is neo-Marxist, no goalposts are being moved! AND whoever ***I*** say is icky-poo, is OBVIOUSLY ABSOLUTELY neo-Marxist!

                    2. Awwww Hihn you’re so cute when you try sophistry instead of your usual gambit of outright lying. How about you down a nice tall glass of bleach and make this world a better place you decrepit obsolete old piece of subhuman shit. Do it for the collective comrade! You are a waste of resources. Everyone who has ever encountered you hates you. Your family disowned you to a government-funded old age facility to live out your declining years dying of senile dementia without staining their reputation.

                    3. No, oxygen breathing is not “Marxist in provenance”, since it started long before Marxism. More importantly, however, the development of neo-Marxism and critical theory out of old Marxism is documented in thousands of writings.

                      But that’s not even the issue here. While some parts of BLM’s principles are per se unobjectionable, as a whole they morally wrong because of what they are: illiberal, intolerant, and destructive. Labeling them “Marxist” isn’t the reason why they are bad, it is simply a shorthand for explaining what people’s objections are.

                      That is, when you ask me “why do you consider BLM’s principles to be illiberal, intolerant, and destructive”, saying “it is Marxist” is a shorthand for “for the same reasons people consider net-Marxism and Marxism to be illiberal, intolerant, and destructive; just read their arguments.”

                    4. Hey Howard SooooSmelly, the Jelly-Belly…
                      If EVERYONE who makes you look bad, by being smarter and better-looking than you, killed themselves, per your wishes, then there would be NO ONE left!
                      Who would feed you? Who’s tits would you suck at, to make a living? WHO would change your perpetually-smelly DIAPERS?!!?
                      You’d better come up with a better plan, Stan!

                    5. So now that SQRLSY One has run out of misrepresentations and false statements, he just resorts to mocking random people for their names. Thanks for admitting defeat, SQRLSY One.

                    6. No, NOBY2, it’s because you want to use a label of MARXISM!!! as a substitute for rational discussion.

                      You know, the same reason why too many on the left are quick to label people as RACIST!!! – as a supposed magic word that delegitimizes everything that their opponents have to say and so therefore they don’t need to come up with logical arguments or reasoning to support their points of view. Just ignore the “racists” and move on.

                      That is what you would like us to do with BLM – just apply the label of MARXISM to them so that none need bother with the rest of what they have to say. That type of cheap debate trick may work on Fox News or Breitbart but it shouldn’t work in places like here.

                      For heaven’s sake this is the place that lets no-shit Nazis and racists roam free. If we have to put up with Rob Misek denying the holocaust, don’t you think an exploration of what BLM has to say is at least worth the effort?

                    7. SQRLSY One
                      July.2.2020 at 5:11 pm
                      Port-a-potties ARE buffets

                      LOL

                      Also, of course Jeff agrees with SQLSRY, a crazy person.

                    8. No, NOBY2, it’s because you want to use a label of MARXISM!!! as a substitute for rational discussion

                      I agree, that is what I want to do. Since BLM is a Marxist ideology with Marxist objectives, promulgated by trained Marxist organizers, we don’t need to have another rational discussion about BLM separate from Marxism, since all the rational arguments pro and contra Marxism have already been hashed out at length.

                      We can, of course, have a discussion about specific points where BLM differs from Marxism (broadly understood, including neo-Marxism, social justice, and critical race theory). SQRLSY One tried to identify some areas but failed. But knock yourself out.

                    9. No, NOBY2, it’s because you want to use a label of MARXISM!!! as a substitute for rational discussion.

                      Or they ficking labeled themselves as marxists as I fucking showed you this morning you ignorant fuck.

                      How the fuck do you get a direct quote from the BLM founders and then forget it literally the same day???

                    10. Jesse, you are not smart enough to understand this discussion. Go back to your right-wing Facebook feed.

                    11. I agree, that is what I want to do.

                      So, your goal is to explicitly spread fake news about an organization you dislike. I think this is called propaganda.

                      We can, of course, have a discussion about specific points where BLM differs from Marxism (broadly understood, including neo-Marxism, social justice, and critical race theory).

                      LOL
                      “Social justice” is not Marxism.
                      Critical race theory is not Marxism.
                      Hey, I heard that some BLM organizer forgot to send his mom a birthday card. Is that Marxism too?

                      I get it, you hate them, and it is easier to get others to hate them by attaching a scary label to them. However you label them does not change their central concerns, namely, the unequal experience of blacks in modern society, nor does labeling them somehow magically address those concerns.

                    12. So, your goal is to explicitly spread fake news about an organization you dislike.

                      No, my goal is to make people aware of the truth, a truth acknowledged by the founders of BLM: that it is an organization founded by Marxists and based on Marxist ideology.

                      “Social justice” is not Marxism. Critical race theory is not Marxism.

                      Critical race theory clearly is a Marxist ideology. The term “social justice” has multiple meanings, including a Marxist meaning.

                      I think this is called propaganda.

                      Yes: the fact that post-WWII Marxists have tried to camouflage their ideology with labels like “social justice” and “critical race theory” is indeed an instance of propaganda.

                      I get it, you hate them, and it is easier to get others to hate them by attaching a scary label to them.

                      Yes, I hate Marxism and Marxism should scare people.

                      However you label them does not change their central concerns, namely, the unequal experience of blacks in modern society

                      Correct: they desire equality of outcome and they advocate government intervention in order to achieve it. That is what makes their ideology incompatible with a free society. I’m sorry you are unable to connect the dots there.

                    13. they desire equality of outcome and they advocate government intervention in order to achieve it. That is what makes their ideology incompatible with a free society.

                      If that’s what you think they desire, then why not simply argue against that? Why this whole long stupid argument about whether they are Marxist or not?

                      I will tell you why. It is in order to attach a scary label to them so as to AVOID discussion of the central issue. Right-wingers like Jesse, and you, are scared of having a discussion with BLM on the merits of their concerns. You’d much rather demagogue them and mislead people into thinking they are a bunch of commie pinkos instead of actually having a meaningful conversation about the unequal experience of blacks in this country.

                      So man up, get your big boy pants on, and actually take part in the discussion instead of having these absurd discussions about Marxism.

                  2. We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another,

                    Marxism.

                    With a 75% illegitimacy rate and soaring black on black crime, hows that working out for ya?

                  3. “We actually do have an ideological frame,” Cullors said. “Myself and Alicia, in particular, are trained organizers.

                    “We are trained Marxists. We are super versed on ideological theories and I think that what we really try to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many black folk.”

                    1. If the founder of the Airedale Puppies Club is a model airplane builder, does that make the Airedale Puppies Club a bunch of model airplane builders?

                      If the founder of the Airedale Puppies Club is a Marxist, does that make the Airedale Puppies Club Marxist?

                      You fascists are utterly, mendaciously dishonest or moronic, and lacking the VERY most basic logic skills, or ALL of the above!

                    2. If the founder of the Airedale Puppies club said that its “ideological frame” was Marxism, then it had declared itself to be a Marxist club.

                      If the Airedale Puppies Club demanded that Airedale Puppies are entitled to winning agility and obedience trials at the same rate as other dogs, regardless of age or breed, it would be a Marxist club.

                      BLM has done the equivalent of both of these: they have declared themselves to be Marxist, and their ideological program is, indeed, Marxist.

                    3. “…they have declared themselves to be Marxist…”

                      Citation please! ONE person who is BLM, saying that they are Marxist, does NOT make BLM, the organization, Marxist! This is VERY simple, basic logic 101!

                      My dog is 3-legged, due to an accident. Dogs in general are now 3-legged? WHERE did you go to stupid-school?

              2. 11. Black Villages
                We are committed to disrupting the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, and especially “our” children to the degree that mothers, parents and children are comfortable.

                This is probably the simplest one. If you can comprehend this one, maybe we’ll see if you can do just a little thinking for the next one.

                1. “…especially “our” children to the degree that mothers, parents and children are comfortable.”

                  Does that look to YOU as if BLM wants to muscle aside the parents, and declare “the children” to be the collectivist property of Government Almighty? Better go check for some commies under your bed RIGHT NOW!!!

                  1. Yes, it does sound just like that. The qualifier merely promises that they aren’t going to do it by force, but instead by reeducation and persuasion.

                    But there is also a difference between what Marxists promise and what Marxists actually do; if their political program actually stated what they end up doing when they get into power, nobody would support them.

                  2. You see, since the senile dementia has taken hold Hihn’s reading comprehension level has degraded to approximately a 1st grader from his all-time peak of a 6th grader.

                  3. You’re just being obtuse for the sake of it now. Fuck off.

                    1. YOU are one of the assholes being obtuse!

                      https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

                      From there…

                      “We work vigorously for freedom and justice for Black people and, by extension, all people.”

                      See the “all people” part there? Can you READ it without the magic glasses that says, instead, “all people who are black or Marxists”? ‘Cause those words are NOT there!!!

                    2. “We work vigorously for freedom and justice for Black people and, by extension, all people.” See the “all people” part there? Can you READ it without the magic glasses that says, instead, “all people who are black or Marxists”? ‘Cause those words are NOT there!!!

                      Marxist ideology doesn’t say “We work for freedom and justice for Marxists”, it says “We work for freedom and justice for all people”. So, no contradiction there.

                    3. We work vigorously for freedom and justice for Black people and, by extension, all people…THATs why were burning down the town and looting the stores!

                2. If you think that is “Marxist” then you are falling for a logical fallacy.

                  R Mac likes ice cream
                  Nazis like ice cream
                  Therefore R Mac is a Nazi!

                  That’s the fallacy you are committing.

                  Marxists indeed want to abolish the nuclear family, because they believe it perpetuates capitalism.

                  Is that why BLM wants to disrupt the nuclear family? In order to destroy capitalism?

                  Polygamists want to disrupt the traditional nuclear family as well. Is it because they are Marxists?

                  1. We all laugh at you Jeff. No one consders you worth anything else.

                    1. Jeff is literally this sites Karen.

                  2. Someone asks which of BLM’s objectives are Marxist, and he gave one example.

                    I don’t see why this is so hard to grasp: BLM organizers are Marxists, their ideology is critical race theory, and many of the BLM principles agree with the objectives of neo-Marxists.

                    But as I was saying before: it doesn’t matter what label you put on it, the 13 Principles of BLM themselves are the problem: despite the flowery language, they are illiberal, racist, authoritarian, and destructive.

                    1. BLM organizers are Marxists

                      Three of their founders were, and it is irrelevant in the context of whether the organization itself is a “Marxist organization” or whether the principles that the organization professes to uphold are “Marxist principles”.

                      their ideology is critical race theory

                      Which is not equivalent to Marxism, even if it were true.

                      and many of the BLM principles agree with the objectives of neo-Marxists.

                      Precisely one of the thirteen principles has a vague connection with an analogous concept in Marxism, and that’s it.

                      If that is the best you’ve got, then it is a rather tenuous connection to Marxism.

                    2. Three of their founders were, and it is irrelevant in the context of whether the organization itself is a “Marxist organization” or whether the principles that the organization professes to uphold are “Marxist principles”.

                      Yes, in theory, it would be possible that the Marxist ideologies of their founders were unrelated to their BLM activism. But they said that Marxist ideology is the framework and basis of BLM. (That’s unusual, often Marxists simply lie about that sort of thing, as you are doing.)

                      Which is not equivalent to Marxism, even if it were true.

                      I didn’t say that critical race theory was “equivalent” to Marxism. Obviously, critical race theory is primarily concerned with race, not class; that is, it is a Marxist theory, but it isn’t equivalent to all of Marxism.

                      Precisely one of the thirteen principles has a vague connection with an analogous concept in Marxism, and that’s it.

                      BLM demands government intervention to change society and to achieve equality of outcome for a supposedly oppressed group. Whatever you label it, it is incompatible with a free society, it is unachievable, and it is evil.

                    3. I didn’t say that critical race theory was “equivalent” to Marxism. Obviously, critical race theory is primarily concerned with race, not class; that is, it is a Marxist theory, but it isn’t equivalent to all of Marxism.

                      Then you have no idea what Marxism is. Marxism is ALL ABOUT the “class struggle”. The workers of the world, regardless of race, are supposed to rise up and overthrow their capitalist oppressors., based on class solidarity. In contrast, critical race theory divides the world not between bourgeoisie and proletariat, but between different races. So in CRT, blacks and whites have different race-based interests and cannot stand in solidarity with each other. Marxism and CRT are fundamentally incompatible with each other. You can’t have a unified proletariat leading a revolution when they are divided by race.

                      BLM demands government intervention to change society and to achieve equality of outcome for a supposedly oppressed group. Whatever you label it, it is incompatible with a free society, it is unachievable, and it is evil.

                      How about collectivism? Can we label it collectivism? Because that is an actually accurate label for it. Yes collectivism is generally a bad idea. But not all collectivism is Marxism, which is an even worse idea.

              3. 6. Queer Affirming
                We are committed to fostering a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking or, rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual unless s/he or they disclose otherwise.
                7. Trans Affirming
                We are committed to embracing and making space for trans brothers and sisters to participate and lead. We are committed to being self-reflexive and doing the work required to dismantle cis-gender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.

                Hahaha… Oh wow.
                Straight out of the Soros hymnal. You can’t get much whiter than those two articles.

                I’m guessing most blacks supporting BLM don’t know about these.

                1. If xer can’t understand that abolishing the nuclear family for a collectivist society isn’t Marxist, these two are going way over it’s head.

          2. See my YouTube link below retard. If one of the founders of an organization says it’s Marxist, I’m gonna take them at their word, instead of changing definitions and moving goalposts so I can look like a retard in a comment section.

            1. Anyone can find a stupid drunk under the bridge saying stupid things. I as the Intergalactic Leader of the Sub-Smegmonic Boogoidians, do hereby declare that R Mac is a nitwit, not to be believed. Proved beyond the shadow of a doubt! Case closed!

              1. She’s not a drunk under the bridge, she’s one of the founders of BLM. Why do you hold on to your ignorance so vigorously?

                1. I Googled good and hard for ANY support (WRITTEN support) of ANY BLM declarations of being “Marxist”!!! It is NOT there! ANY dim-wit windbag can put up a YouTube video, and SAY that they are the King of Siam!!!!

                  ALL that I could find, is ENDLESS right-wing nut-job declarations of BLM being Marxist! YOU, right-wing nut-job, find me ANY kind of BLM (Officially BLM) web site, that declares BLM to be Marxist! If they are avowed Marxists, this shouldn’t be too hard for you to do!

                  1. Here’s the link to the founders on the official BLM website. Her name is Patrisse Cullors. The YouTube link is her saying it’s a Marxist organization.

                    You continue to wallow in your ignorance, and I’m not really sure why. What emotional investment do you have in BLM not being what their founder says they are?

                  2. The YouTube video is an interview with one of the three founders of BLM who said explicitly that she is a “trained Marxist”. It’s in her own words. I gave the link below. You can also search for it.

                    In addition, the 13 Principles of BLM reflect the ideas of critical race theory.

                    So, we have self-declared Marxists promoting a neo-Marxist ideology. What exactly is your confusion there?

                    1. https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

                      Includes the below…

                      “We are guided by the fact that all Black lives matter, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status, or location.”

                      Notice they specifically disavow discrimination based on “economic status”… Not one status for proles, another for Kulacks, another for capitalists, another for the rich, another for the poor, and yet another for the “vanguard of the proletariat”, AKA the communist party! That not very Marxist of them at ALL!!! Now WHAT did you say your definition of a “Marxist” is? WHERE are we moving the goalposts to, next?

                    2. Notice they specifically disavow discrimination based on “economic status”… Not one status for proles, another for Kulacks, another for capitalists, another for the rich, another for the poor, and yet another for the “vanguard of the proletariat”,

                      All that paragraphs says is that “if you’re black, your life matters regardless of whether you are rich or poor”. That is neither a disavowal of Marxist economics, nor even an commitment to equal rights under the law.

                    3. All you have to do is borrow Hihn’s dumfuck glasses and then the revolutionary Marxism magically disappears.

                    4. “…That is neither a disavowal of Marxist economics…”

                      I have NEVER seen NOYB2 disavow the idea that the humans are inferior to the Intergalactic Sub-Smegmonic Nebulous Over-Beings! This PROVES that NOYB2 wants the Intergalactic Sub-Smegmonic Nebulous Over-Beings to be our dictatorial, micro-managing Overlords!

                    5. MIKEY HIHN LADIES AND GENTLEMEN! WHAT A KNEE SLAPPER!

                      Goddamn Hihn, it’s absolutely uncanny how you manage to deliver the PERFECT, HILARIOUS joke at the PRECISE RIGHT MOMENT when you’ve lost an argument and are flailing like a retard going for the last piece of cake.

                    6. SQRLSY One, you quoted the BLM principles and claimed that that quote “disavows discrimination based on economic status” (which would be inconsistent with Marxist ideology). I simply showed that you were wrong.

                    7. NOYB2, you didn’t show shit! You just accused BLM of being “Marxist”, w/o ANY basis! Just because you are a right-wing nut job nitwit, and “Marxist” accusations gets you some imaginary traction!

                      So a member or 2 of BLM might be Marxist… So what? It is NOT a part of BLM stated objectives, as I have shown! WHY should BLM declare themselves capitalistic, communistic, fans of democrats, republicans, or libertarians? Or fans of bird-watching, airplane model-building, or cats v/s dogs? These issues are NOT their focus, and so they AVOID them, as is their right! They are about BLACK LIVES MATTER, and nothing more, and nothing less! If I find a member (or a leader) of BLM who likes cats more than dogs, and says so, then SO FUCKING WHAT?!?! You just want to smear people with irrelevant bullshit, is your clouded and EVIL motive!

                      Should we, or should we not… Purple, yellow, green… OR BLACK… Or even MARXIST… SHOULD WE, or should we not, be allowed (by your conservative Government Almighty) to protest CLEARLY excessive and abusive police powers? Which DO factually abuse blacks more than others!

                      You’re like a squid… When cornered, you swim rapidly away in a cloud of ink, intending to confuse!

                    8. NOYB2, I looked at the declarations of founding principles of your Petunias Admiration Club, and I found absolutely NO mention of, exactly WHERE does your Petunias Admiration Club STAND, fer Chrissakes, on matters of, should space exploration be, or not be, funded by Government Almighty, and, to what extent should those funds go?!?

                      It PROVES that you are in favor of killing all of the USA’s astronauts!!! You astronaut-hater you!!!

                    9. SQRLSY One
                      July.2.2020 at 5:11 pm
                      Port-a-potties ARE buffets

                      LOLOL

                    10. NOYB2, you didn’t show shit! You just accused BLM of being “Marxist”, w/o ANY basis!

                      The founder of BLM said explicitly, herself, that she is a trained Marxist organizer and that the ideological framework of BLM is Marxism. You have her on video. Furthermore, BLM’s principles are textbook critical race theory, so not only do we have her word for it, it’s consistent with what the organization advocats.

                      But I’m glad you at least recognize that being Marxist is deplorable.

                    11. It is obvious at this point that sqrsly and Jeff are just fucking retarded. Not even the founders words is proof to them. They are literally retarded.

                    12. If the founder of the Petunias Admiration Club is a model airplane builder, does that make the Petunias Admiration Club a bunch of model airplane builders?

                      If the founder of the Petunias Admiration Club is a Marxist, does that make the Petunias Admiration Club Marxist?

                      You fascists are utterly dishonest or moronic, lacking the VERY most basic logic skills, or ALL of the above!

                    13. If the founder of the Petunias Admiration Club is a Marxist, does that make the Petunias Admiration Club Marxist?

                      No, but if the founder declared that the ideological foundation of the club was Marxism, then it would be a Marxist club.

                      (Of course, it would be in no way surprising if the “Petunias Admiration Club” pretended to be about nothing other than petunias while actually being a Marxist club, but BLM accidentally let slip what was clear from their objectives already.)

                      You fascists are utterly dishonest or moronic,

                      Ah, yes, two more socialist propaganda techniques: (1) accuse others of what you yourself are guilty of, and (2) call anybody who objects to Marxism/communism/socialism a “fascist”.

                    14. “No, but if the founder declared that the ideological foundation of the club was Marxism, then it would be a Marxist club.”

                      Utter bullshit! Why don’t you just be HONEST and admit that you hate BLM, and stop the stupid smokescreen!

                      ALL of the “founding fathers” of the USA, and ALL of it’s founding CITIZENS, for that matter, are DEAD! By your logic, all USA-Americans are DEAD, then!

                      Pythagoras, the inventor/discoverer of the Pythagorean Theorem, was a cult leader. https://listverse.com/2017/04/26/10-strange-facts-about-pythagoras-mathematician-and-cult-leader/#:~:text=10%20Pythagoras%20Led%20A%20Cult%20That%20Worshiped%20Numbers&text=Numbers%2C%20Pythagoras%20believed%2C%20were%20the,were%20sacred%E2%80%94almost%20like%20gods.

                      Then those of us who believe the Pythagorean Theorem must all be cultists! By YOUR flavor of stupid!

                      Why don’t you just admit that you hate BLM, and leave it at that? Or tell us your REAL reasons why you hate BLM?

                2. He wasn’t reasoned into his ignorance, which makes it damn hard to reason him out of it.

      3. They were rioters.

        They knew it. We should know it.

        The Sons of Liberty were not the philosophical arm of the early patriots.

        They were the Proud Boys, the Patriot’s Prayer, the Based Stick men of their day.

        When you’re fighting, you’re fighting. In the fight there’s just the fight–both sides think they’re the hero.

        If you win, you’re a hero, if you lose, you’re a traitor.

        To the talkers it’s different–

        To the left, the right is evil because they will not submit to policies and programs that have been declared as optimal for the greater good.

        To the right, the left is stupid because they can’t see that none of the programs and policies they believe are optimal for the greater good have ever worked and should not be forced upon people.

        Both sides think they’re doing what’s best.

        But only the right is right.

        Why?

        Because the right doesn’t care if the left pursues their agendas. All they care is that those agendas are not forced upon people who don’t want to follow them.

        And the left can’t accept that.

        Because not even the left wants to live by the policies of the left. THEY want to live large. Everyone else has to sacrifice for the greater good–by any means necessary.

        1. Are you arguing that the right doesn’t want to force any agendas onto people? None at all?

          1. We’re pointing out that you’re garbage, loser.

            1. Fat garbage loser. Remember. His fatness is why he wants to force mask wearing on the rest of us. God bless his cookies.

              1. You’re a lying worthless Team Red lackey with no dignity or self-respect.

      1. There’s a livestream clip from one of the hit women. Dark as fuck highway, and they’re all wearing black. And have the highway mostly blocked, like some 3rd world shithole’s impromptu roadblock by the Aidid tribe.

        Hilarious.

        1. Apparently there was a protest in Tampa yesterday.
          There were some “outrage” twitter posts of a driver driving through the intersection they were blocking (he didn’t hit anybody, but they all freaked out).
          There were a couple others claiming police brutality too.
          80% of the replies – on Twitter, on multiple threads- were anywhere from completely unsympathetic to outright hostile.
          We are tired of this shit.

          1. This whole thing has nothing to do with facts, and legitimate grievances were cast off long ago.
            This “year of tantrums” is centrally organized, top down astroturfing.
            Yes, the majority of the “protesters” are not in on it – they are the useful idiots.
            What are their complaints?
            That they FEEL certain ways- angry, resentful, oppressed, offended, etc.
            It’s all delusion.
            These are unhappy people who insist that their unhappiness is your problem, and that they have the right to impose it upon you by any means necessary.

            1. This “year of tantrums” is centrally organized, top down astroturfing.

              Shorter Nardz:

              MY grievances are legitimate and authentic.
              THEIR grievances are artificial and fake.

              1. Peaceable assembly is in the Constitution, fucko, and what your fellow travelers have been doing isn’t that.

        2. There was also an armed neo black panthers march at stone mountain.

          Leftists: “now the right is gonna call for gun control! They’re hypocrites because it was ok in Michigan but now they’re offended! Look at all the scared white rednecks! Etc”

          Except in the Twitter threads on these posts there was no outrage from conservatives. It was all “good for them! Great to see people embrace their 2A rights!”

          Of course, this didn’t stop the leftists from carrying on as if their poisoned imagination were the reality. Despite the exact opposite of their assumptions being proven directly, for all to see, they carried on as if reality didn’t exist.

          It’s psychosis

  5. “…when Black Lives Matter was launched in 2013, it was widely regarded as an extremist, America-hating outfit.”

    And, as their new “Silence is violence” kick shows, they still are.

    1. They’re Marxists. And don’t just take my word for it:

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgEUbSzOTZ8

      1. They are just a Pied Piper.

  6. As Koch / Reason libertarians, we know that moral progress is intimately linked with our primary objective: enriching billionaires.

    Our benefactor Charles Koch’s fortune has collapsed to barely over $50,000,000,000 because of Orange Hitler’s white nationalist immigration policies. Fortunately Americans are becoming more anti-racist and are therefore embracing Mr. Koch’s open borders agenda. As a result of this moral awakening, President Joe Biden will implement unlimited, unrestricted immigration — which will boost Mr. Koch’s net worth to the $70,000,000,000 or $80,000,000,000 he deserves.

    #OpenTheBordersToHelpCharlesKoch

  7. But how would open borders and unlimited immigration help the average Indian?

    1. Death! Death everywhere! And genocide! Those dirty DIRTY immigrants and their cooties!

  8. Don’t bother reading it the article is just another rant about Modi and Trump.

    Happy July 4th folks!

    1. Oh, noes! Someone said something disparaging about President Trump!

      [Wait, checks the title bar on the website. Oh, yes, this is still Reason.com, a libertarian website. In case you’re not clued in, criticizing Presidents is a thing libertarians (and Reason) have always done.]

      1. Your existence is sad and pointless

      2. “Reason.com, a libertarian website.”

        False.

        1. The magazine’s founder was a libertarian.

          Therefore it’s a libertarian magazine.

          Isn’t that the standard you apply to BLM, w.r.t. Marxism?

          1. AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

            THIS IS WHAT THE IDIOT ACTUALLY BELIEVES AHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

          2. Because organizations have never been corrupted overtime.

            Do you ever say things that arent stupid?

            1. Oh. So what you’re saying, is that if one really wants to know if an organization is, say, Marxist, one should look at the principles that the organization actually follows, and not merely look at whether the founders called themselves Marxist. Is that what you’re saying, Jesse? Because I think that is what you are saying.

              1. So what you’re saying, is that if one really wants to know if an organization is, say, Marxist, one should look at the principles that the organization actually follows

                Correct. And BLM’s positions are a subset of Marxist positions. On the other hand, their positions are incompatible with liberalism, centrism, or conservatism. QED.

                1. Correct.

                  So focusing on what the BLM founders may or may not have said with respect to Marxism is irrelevant, because what is relevant instead is what the principles of the organization itself are, not what the organizers or founders personally believe.

                  Thanks for agreeing with me on this one.

      3. “this is still Reason.com, a libertarian website
        *Chuckle* Okay.

        They don’t call you ‘White Knight’ for nothing…

  9. There have been over the top actions by police handling these protests. On the other hand, there have been massive acts of rioting, looting and destroying public and private property. Both should be condemned , yet, the news seems to gloss over it. Take the case of the people who use their guns to run off a mob that broke into a gated community . Private property is just that, and these ‘protesters’ should all face punishment.

  10. Shika actually considers violent neo Marxist mobs roaming the streets and demanding the implementation of racist policies and the radical transformation of US society to be a morally good thing.

    We shouldn’t be surprised: socialism, castes, abd bigotry are common in her culture, and she is obviously still steeped in those ideas.

    1. Way to misread what she said! Didn’t expect anything else from you, though.

      1. How did I misread her? Shika is literally repeating the neo Marxist ideas of the protesters: “America obviously has a long way to go to […] achieve anything approaching full racial justice” and she believes that protests leg by Marxists for a Marxist agenda represent “progress.”

        1. “…she believes that protests leg by Marxists…”

          Citations please! OTHER than your CLEARLY out-of-calibration tin-foil hat! And have you ever considered that spontaneous protests do not HAVE to have a “leader”? Who is the “leader” of a giant swarm of starlings, or a large school of fish?

          1. BLM is an organization based on 13 principles and whose founders explicitly stated that they are Marxists.

            BLM has chapters around the country and they organize these marches.

            Furthermore, if you walk in a BLM march, you are endorsing their principles and ideology; that’s the whole point of marching.

            1. When someone walks in a march they are sending out a pretty signal-to-noise ratio message. They signal that they are dissatisfied with the status quo. Just because they are marching in some march organized by BLM doesn’t mean they ascribe to their entire agenda.

              1. So they’re useful idiots

                1. Maybe. But they certainly are not endorsing the BLM platform. Most people marching in some BLM-organized protest have no idea what BLM’s agenda is.

                  And kinda doesn’t matter, because BLM isn’t in power. It’s Congress and state legislatures and such that will determine what, if any, police reforms come about.

                  1. And what does that have to do with anything? I simply said:

                    Shika actually considers violent neo Marxist mobs roaming the streets and demanding the implementation of racist policies and the radical transformation of US society to be a morally good thing.

                    This is a factually correct statement about what has been happening and how Shikha evaluates the morality of these events.

                    1. Factual, in your mind. Also, I was relying specifically to Nardz’ comment about useful idiots.

                    2. You. It was about you.

                    3. Yes, you were saying Most people marching in some BLM-organized protest have no idea what BLM’s agenda is.. But how is that relevant? Do you think every Hitler youth understood the fascist agenda? How is that an excuse for anything?

                    4. Hitler Youth were a bit more in power than being mere protest organizers.

                    5. You got it backwards. The Hitler Youth engaged in many non-political organizations, and many boys were simply forced to participate in it.

                      In contrast, marching for BLM is a purely voluntary choice and has no other purpose than political activism. That’s why BLM protesters and members can be held responsible for BLM’s ideology; ignorance is not an excuse.

                    6. Ignorance is an excuse. If BLM organizes a protest march, and I show up because I think to myself, “I’m gonna go march because I think black lives matter!”, but I am ignorant of the details of BLM’s entire political agenda, I have not made some sweeping endorsement of BLM. I haven’t voted for any Marxists or endorsed Marxism by marching.

                    7. Belief in collective guilt by association is a clear indication of collectivism. NOYB2 is an indubitable collectivist!

                    8. It’s not guilt by “association” when one is actively participating

                    9. “If BLM organizes a protest march, and I show up because I think to myself, “I’m gonna go march because I think black lives matter!”, but I am ignorant of the details of BLM’s entire political agenda, I have not made some sweeping endorsement of BLM. I haven’t voted for any Marxists or endorsed Marxism by marching.”

                      Yes, you have.
                      It may not have been intentional, but you’ve demonstrated your endorsement by participating in their action.

                    10. “It’s not guilt by “association” when one is actively participating”

                      Mendacious bullshit as usual, when the entire COLLECTIVIST argument here, by the conservatives-to-fascist-spectrum people, has been, all along, that SOME BLM folks are Marxists, therefor ALL who march for the BLM ORGANIZATIONALLY STATED objectives (which do NOT include Marxism) are thereby contaminated by being Marxists!

                      Some mammals poop wherever they please, disregarding the public’s health, and basic sanitation! Nardless the Nadless is a mammal! Nardless the Nadless better start wearing DIAPERS wherever Nardless the Nadless goes!

                    11. Yes, you have.
                      It may not have been intentional, but you’ve demonstrated your endorsement by participating in their action.

                      Well okay then.

                      By this standard, everyone participating at the Charlottesville protests in 2017 was endorsing white supremacism, whether intentionally or not. Is that how it works?

                      And so when Donald Trump said there were “fine people on both sides”, he really was saying that white supremacists were fine people. Is that how it works?

                    12. Was Trump chanting in unison with white supremacists?
                      No? Then shut the fuck up.
                      You and sqrlsy are desperate little bitches trying to cover for your socialist pals with lies.
                      You are hateful, untalented individuals who can’t tolerate that not everyone is as resentful and self-loathing as you are.
                      I suggest you try to deal with your psychoses and your fundamentally collectivist (and racist) perspective.
                      Your misery is your fault. Own it

                    13. Aww, Nardz the little fascist shithead is disappointed that his own logic is used against him.

                      What Nardz wrote:

                      you’ve demonstrated your endorsement by participating in their action.

                      Trump said of the Charlottesville protests that there were “fine people on both sides”. And you, and all of the other Trump sycophants around here, have spent years trying to convince us that Trump was ACTUALLY referring to the people protesting the removal of statues, and not to the literal Nazis and white supremacists who were there and who organized the protests.

                      But now, when it comes to BLM protests, you endorse a standard that anyone who attends a BLM protest is guilty by association of everything that BLM stands for. So, BLM is Marxist? Therefore, everyone who attends a BLM protest endorses Marxism! QED!

                      Now you are upset when that exact same standard that you advocate for BLM is used against the Charlottesville morons. Well tough noogies. All of your goalpost moving about whether Trump was literally chanting anything doesn’t change the fact that what you advocate for BLM would mean, by your own standard, everyone protesting at Charlottesville was endorsing Nazism, anti-Semitism, and white supremacy.

                      According to Nardz:
                      you’ve demonstrated your endorsement by participating in their action.
                      everyone at Charlottesville endorsed white supremacy.

                    14. And therefore the “fine people” that Trump praised were, by Nardz’ own logic, white supremacists.

          2. Hereis a founder of BLM in her own words.

            For their Principles just do a Google search.

            1. Sqrls and WK know. They’re just doing a little something that they like to call ‘lying’.

              1. Momma the Lame is the on who lies!!

                https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

                From there…

                “We work vigorously for freedom and justice for Black people and, by extension, all people.”

                See the “all people” part there? Can you READ it without the magic glasses that says, instead, “all people who are black or Marxists”? ‘Cause those words are NOT there!!!

                1. Where do you see a contradiction? Socialists and Marxists have always stated that they work for “freedom and justice for all people”.

                  1. NOYB2 has always stated that he-she-it works for “freedom and justice for all people”.

                    I do NOT believe NOYB2 because of the mendacious LYING of the NOYB2! PROVE to us the BLM is organizationally Marxist, liar!

                    1. BLM work will make you free.

                    2. SQRLSY One
                      July.2.2020 at 5:11 pm
                      Port-a-potties ARE buffets

                      LOLOL

                  2. NOYB2 has always stated that he-she-it works for “freedom and justice for all people”.

                    I have never stated that. As a philosophically conservative and politically libertarian person, I do not concern myself with “freedom and justice for all people”; in fact, I think they are unachievable.

                    1. As a philosophically conservative and politically libertarian person, I do not concern myself with “freedom and justice for all people”; in fact, I think they are unachievable.

                      How is that a conservative or libertarian position?

          3. This is great! With social distancing, there’s no crazy relatives to argue with at the family BBQ today. But we’ve got NOYB2!

            1. Pretty sure that out of the two of you, NOYB2 isn’t the crazy one.

        2. One of the bits of progress she cites is Trump’s executive order. Is Trump following the BLM agenda?

          1. Fuck off Jeff.

            1. Pretty sure it is chipper.

    2. Shika actually considers violent neo Marxist mobs roaming the streets and demanding the implementation of racist policies and the radical transformation of US society to be a morally good thing.

      Gee, no shit

      When facts are always “alternative,” brute force is all that’s left in settling with intellectual opponents!

      1. Are you reading that statement as prescriptive on Dalmia’s part, rather than being a lament?

        1. Fuck off Jeff.

      2. So, let me get this straight. You are referencing tweets from three years ago, which means you have some kind of long-standing grudge against Dalmia and have spent years of your life following and commenting on her articles?

        My name is Brass Monkey. You killed my father…

        1. Literally no one cares what you think Jeff.

    3. I actually got suckered in. I thought the title looked interesting and didn’t notice the by-line. I made it all the way up to a reference about India before I stopped and said, “Oh, fuck, this is Shikha.”

      It’s like a compulsion. She absolutely can’t help herself.

      1. “She absolutely can’t help herself.”

        She probably can’t. The editors of this publication, on the other hand, keep deciding to publish what she writes. Can they not help themselves either?

        1. They publish, we click and comment. Repeat.

          1. If we all left tomorrow nothing would change. You aren’t the customer for this cum rag of a zine. You aren’t paying for it. Chuckie Koch is.

            1. Good point. They still like clicks though.

              1. I almost never click on her stories. I foolishly failed to check the by-line on this one before I clicked today, so it was an exception.

                There’s actually no need to read anything she says at this point anyway-she always says the exact same shit. You don’t have to read what she has to say to know what she’s going to say.

            2. If we all left tomorrow nothing would change.

              Give it a shot.

              1. Aw you upset little bitch!

                1. He wont stop until he is in a safe bubble.

          2. Well, I also read the Atlantic, that doesn’t mean I agree with them.

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        2. Umm, she’s from India. Reason hired her wanting her to write stuff about India.

          1. Every article doesn’t have to be, “By the way, have I mentioned that Modi is a populist like Trump? Let me remind you once again about the immigration policy he put in place.”

            This is not a story even slightly about India (it’s a Fourth Of July, State of America piece) and she’s compelled to remind us about the shit she’s perpetually repeating about India.

            1. Shikha made me like Modi and the BJP.

    4. Someone please tell Mitt Romney that he’s now a violent neo-Marxist.

      1. Fuck off Jeff.

        1. You fuck off, asshole.

      2. He probably didn’t read the BLM platform, just like he didn’t READ THE TRANSCRIPT!

      3. Mitt Romney is a statist, a political opportunist, and a fool, that’s all.

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  13. I’m amazed at how many commenters are still reading Shikha’s articles.

    1. I’m amazed that there are commenters who come here to rag on Dalmia even though they do not read her articles. Don’t you respect your own life enough to find something better to do with your precious minutes on earth?

  14. What a bunch of neomarxist crap.

    1. Cultural marxist dribble..is the author from India or Munich/Warsaw/St Petersburg circa 1920?

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  16. I always find it funny how when people clearly show and explain who they are, people still try to defend them by claiming an overboard of nuance or that what they did and said isn’t actually what they meant. So bizarre to me.

  17. If you believe life-ruining cancel culture witch hunts, full-throated embrace of transfeminism and queer liberation politics, neurotic obsession with white privilege and white atonement, revisionist historiographic campaigns to purge inconvenient figures and narratives, woke abandonment of journalistic objectivity and neutrality, and widespread property destruction in the name of racial justice are tokens of moral progress, then sure.

  18. These United States learned a lot watching “The Anarchy” in the shape of a private English East India Company robbing and plundering a wealthy but militarily backward India in the 1760s and 70s. One American commented such a fate would be like “being eaten by rats!” George Orwell, Indian-born son of a deputy opium inspector, evidently thought the imagery relevant enough to include in 1984. But the real progress here began in 1947 when Ayn Rand worked out the Non-Aggression Principle, then broadcast it in Atlas Shrugged, which inspired the LP and Reason, and made the article publishable.

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  21. When facts interrupt your narrative the acceptable method today is to demonize those with facts…

    Racial Justice? What does that mean? Seriously what metric are you measuring against? Govt should not be able to discriminate or force others too…ok pretty much everyone agrees with that..and we should just strive to achieve that right? Or are we talking about social outcomes which support a narrative? Are we looking at deaths by police by race versus % of that race in the general population? Or imprisionments by race as a % of the general population (taking into account the % of each race committing same crimes)? What does this author mean?

    If protesters are destroying private property is that ok? I mean govt is supposed to protect my life, liberty and property right?

  22. Brilliant article. I had wondered how future generations would view the mind boggling hysteria that is currently gripping the whole world, especially Europe and the USA. We look back at past centurhysteria can be – like a stampede. Thought the writer was a historian, his analysis is so sharpies and wonder how they could have been so stupid. I guess it shows how powerful mass . He has seen through the Emperor’s new clothes…Click For Full Details.

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