Antifa

Citing Misleading OANN Story, Trump Claims Injured Buffalo Protester Could Be 'ANTIFA Provocateur'

There's no evidence to support the claim that 75-year-old Martin Gugino is part of antifa.

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Is Martin Gugino, the 75-year-old activist who suffered a head injury after cops in Buffalo, New York, pushed him down, an "antifa provocateur" intent on setting up the cops? President Donald Trump raised this possibility in a tweet Tuesday morning, citing a report by the unfailingly pro-Trump One America News Network (OANN).

He really shouldn't have. Regardless of what Gugino intended, there's no excuse for how the police officers handled him. It was wrong of them to shove an elderly man who posed no threat to them.

In any case, there's no reason to think Gugino was "an antifa provocateur," and it was deeply irresponsible of Trump to raise this unlikely possibility.

The OANN report was based on an anonymously written blog post at a website called The Conservative Treehouse and occasionally The Last Refuge. It claims that Gugino is a "professional agitator and Antifa provocateur" and theorizes that he may have used his phone to scan the officers' communications just before they pushed him. There are kernels of semi-truth here: Gugino may have been scanning police communications, and a couple of pieces of information on social media suggest he is something of a professional protester. Gugino was affiliated with the Catholic Worker movement—a nonviolent activist group—and several other organizations, according to interviews with his friends:

A handful of social media posts claim Gugino, a known activist, was taunting the police. Friend and fellow activist, Palina Prasasouk, says he wasn't trying to be hostile with law enforcement.

"When he was trying to approach the cops there, I saw him as being, 'Hey I want a conversation.' That's Martin. He likes to talk to people on the streets," said Prasasouk.

Gugino has participated in many protests—and not just in Buffalo. He met both Colville and Prasasouk while protesting against the Guantanamo Bay detention camp. He was also seen demanding murder charges against the Cleveland police officer who killed Tamir Rice.

"I think it would break his heart, not being able to go back out on the streets, if he has long-term effects from this," added Prasasouk.

Gugino is also a member of PUSH Buffalo and Western New York Peace Center, among others. Colville believes Gugino wants more people to go out into the street, taking his place.

PUSH is an activist group founded by Jesse Jackson, and the Western New York Peace Center is an anti-violence organization.

These are left-wing groups, but they aren't violent left-wing groups—they are explicitly dedicated to peace and nonviolence. That puts them in a very different camp from antifa, which explicitly condones violence (and often practices it) as a tactic of resistance against the far right. So the additional information about Gugino really makes it less likely that he would identify himself as part of antifa.

Nor does the video footage of the encounter between Gugino and the police really evince antifa-like behavior, even if he was scanning police communications. Antifa activists tend to disguise their identities by wearing masks and dark colors. They move in crowds and fade into the background after committing a criminal act. They don't walk up to the authorities hoping to get hit—they are the ones doing the hitting. The OANN report betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of antifa, which the president evidently shares.

It's worth remembering that we have scant evidence of widespread antifa involvement in the recent protests. Most of the rioting and looting is not connected to a specific left-wing political agenda: It's random troublemakers causing mayhem and stealing things at opportunistic moments.

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  1. “There’s no evidence to support the claim that 75-year-old Martin Gugino is part of antifa.”

    There’s no evidence to dispute the claim that 75-year-old Martin Gugino is part of antifa.

    Depends on your politics, like everything else these days.

    1. Who cares about some angry old Boomer yelling at the clouds for being racist?

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      2. I didn’t, until I saw the blood pouring out of his ear because he had been shoved to the ground by a militarized cop.

        1. Ahahahahah I love that I fucking broke you sarc ahahahaahahaha

          But no I still won’t go on a date with you.

          1. Fuck you dick I was trying to offer an olive branch but you had to respond like the low-energy troll you are.

            1. No means no bro.

              1. Oh fuck Tulpa ate stupid pills again

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          2. You broke me, not sarc.

            1. Its hard to deal with all these GOP authoritarian fucks. I know how you feel. But, oh well, when Biden wins and VP AOC starts opening up the reeducation camps for these right-wing sad sacks you and I can come back and tell said asshole fucks that this is what they brought upon themselves. That’s at least some consolation

              1. In workers paradise, GOP authoritarian fucks won’t even have internet access.

                1. Niether will anyone else but whatever.

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              2. AmSoc, you better hope your idiot friends don’t ever go too far. Once things slide into a civil war, the gloves come off.

                You progs will be wiped off the fucking map at a rate which will astound you.

              3. “GOP authoritarian fucks”

                Says the man who chooses the brand of the greatest mass murderers of the 20th Century.

        2. Militarized? What in the blue fcvk are you talking about?

          Go back and watch the ’68 DNC convention. Got nothing to do with “militarized”

    2. Does Antifa even recognize membership in any meaningful manner?

      If not then there can be no ‘evidence.’

      1. According to CNN, Antifa does not exist but the KKK is present in every police department and local GOP chapter.

        1. And “white supremacy” rules everything in the US.

          Forget that there may only be 20k white supremacists in the entire country, it rules everything.

        2. The KKK is so yesterday.

          Now it’s the “Boogaloos”. Seriously.

          The new FakeNews Bogeymen are called Boogaloos.

      2. Antifa is not an organization, it’s a movement. You can’t be a “member” of Antifa, but you can be part of the movement. This is not different from most political movements, including plenty of conservative ones.

          1. You quote Zero Hedge as though it’s a credible source of information. LOL.

            1. You offer your opinion as if we care lolololok

              1. Dude, you are my hero, but you don’t even know whom you broke. And you didn’t break me, you enlightened me as to the proper way to behave on a public forum.

            2. Guilt by association is always a convincing rebuttal. You don’t want to even consider that ANTIFA is real? They say they exist, say they aren’t aren’t a “group” though somehow, and that’s enough to convince you they are being genuine and not just trying to stay out of RICO trouble. LOL. Zerohedge is sometimes wrong…sometimes right. Why the disdain? Or was it just because you had no better rebuttal to that Veritas video?

              1. I’m so sorry to burst your bubble, but Project Veritas might just happen to be a purveyor of fake news. Check out this link.

                https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/29/project-veritas-how-fake-news-prize-went-to-rightwing-group-beloved-by-trump

                1. Project Veritas has a credible track record. Progtard news publications do not. Learn the difference.

                  1. I love how the leftists cry “fAkE nEwS” about Project Veritas.
                    So far as I know, they just release recordings taken by undercover.
                    Are the videos fake? Is there some sort of missing context?
                    Some of the videos I’ve seen, there’s really no context that could help…

                    1. Well, I love how you Trumpists think that any pro-Trump site or organization must be completely factual! Never mind the fact that James O’Keefe, creator of Project Veritas, is known for selectively editing videos in order to defame the people he’s targeting in them.

                  2. You probably think that Project Veritas is more credible than Reason, too. LOL.

        1. It’s analogous to the Tea Party movement. The early Tea Party movement, at least.

          1. Hey sarc remember when you tried to get me to date you and I shot you down?

            lolololololl

            1. I remember.
              It was a sad display

              1. sarc – “come on maaaaaan why don’t you want to have a lucky pierre with me and $porky!!!”

                ahahahahaahahahaj so fucking sad!

            2. Umm, sorry, no. I think I’d remember that.

              1. You do a really bad job of keeping your socks straight.

              2. I remember it. It truly was pathetic.

        2. “You can’t arrest our group because word magic.”

          Didn’t work for the Klan.

      3. The secret handshake is so secret even the members don’t know it.

    3. Yes, but lacking evidence, it’s usually wise to assume the negative position, isn’t it? It’s much harder to prove a negative. I can’t prove that I am NOT a member of Anti-fa, not easily anyway.

    4. Even if he were part of Antifa, it doesn’t really change the outcome. No matter your position on Antifa, shouldn’t we hold the cops to a higher standard than Antifa?

      1. We should, but we don’t. Cops seem to have a lower standard for use of force than civilians, which is baffling to me.

        1. Or even a lower standard for use of force than active military.

          https://www.facebook.com/corey.cooper.7712/posts/3378016915544102

          1. It’s been nuked, Overt. Got any text you can C&P here?

            1. Still there for me. Try a different device?

          2. If I had kneeled on the neck of an unarmed Iraqi POW when I was in Desert Storm, and he died like a George Floyd, the Army would have court martialed my ass for some kind of criminal homicide.

      2. Even if he were part of Antifa, it doesn’t really change the outcome.

        This. Antifa or not, it doesn’t change the fact they shoved an unarmed elderly man to the ground. Hell, even if he was taunting them it still doesn’t excuse their actions. If they can’t take a thin, frail old man saying mean things to them without becoming violent they shouldn’t be cops.

        1. As I said below, that guy was clearly being weird. You don’t walk up to a cop and put your hands on them. If I walked up to you and reached for your chest in a tense situation, I might push you back too.

          It is clear to me that this dude was trying to draw a reaction. And it is also clear to me that the cops didn’t slam the guy to the ground- they pushed him slightly hard, but the guy’s frailty led to him falling backwards and awkwardly.

          Where things get bad for the cops is that they then just walk over his body and keep heading on. If they’d have shown even the smallest amount of concern that they had accidentally injured someone, this would have played very differently.

          1. They pushed him too hard.
            He made no effort to avoid falling.
            Paramedics were there with a minute, it’s not the asshole front line riot cops’ role to stop and assist him.
            There’s no evidence that he was a provocateur… except his behavior.

          2. You can see in the video one of the cops bends down to check him and is moved on by his colleague. This is per riot control protocols and training. The cops in the front need to maintain a solid line and casualties are dealt with at the back by the medic.
            Source: medic trained in NI riot control.

            1. Yes, Protocol for police has them knock over a guy, step over him and leave him for someone else (paramedics) to deal with. My point is that it is a shitty protocol. There was NO riot. There were people there past curfew. That the cops felt the need to treat these peaceful people like rioters looks terrible. Whether it is “protocol” or not to look terrible, they were terrible.

            2. Also importantly, that’s a fairly obvious head/neck injury and untrained people aren’t supposed to touch people with such injuries due to the danger of accidentally exacerbating the injury.

          3. Where things get bad for the cops is that they then just walk over his body and keep heading on.

            There were paramedics right behind the police line and a review of the full video shows that he was receiving medical attention 20 seconds after hitting the ground.

        2. Regardless of what Gugino intended, there’s no excuse for how the police officers handled him. It was wrong of them to shove an elderly man who posed no threat to them.

          Seems to me the second bolded line contradicts the first, by assuming what Gugino intended wasn’t threatening. As you can see in the video provided by the OANN report, he repeatedly thrusts a device against the cop. As it happens, a phone, but it could easily have been a taser. All the cop knows is that this dude got in his face and started jabbing him with something.

          It’s a standard protest theater tactic, to take actions that will look to the cops like a threat, in order to be attacked by them while a confederate films the encounter.

    5. Whether he is or isn’t antifa depends on one’s politics? He either is or he isn’t.

      1. Whereas you are definitely sarc and I broke you lololol

        1. I’m not sarc. And you enlightened me, damn it!

          1. Only sarcasmic talks with sarcasmic as much as you did this morning. By logical assertion, you’re sarcasmic.

            1. So it was ultimately a masturbatory exchange?

    6. Other than I don’t think I’ve ever heard of any antifa that are older than their thirties. Participating in antifa is kind of a young man’s vice.

      1. The testosterone levels just don’t add up.

        1. The old dude has too much?

    7. This guy has been protesting for 50 years. This is a ridiculous assertion and only the most brainwashed of trump lovers would believe this tin foil hat theory.

      1. What is incorrect about Trump’s statement?

        Based on your/leftist/apologist standards, antifa isn’t really an organization. It “just means you’re against fascism”. And old dude was standing against the cops who, again by your standards, represent fascism.
        So was he not antifa?

        Old was clearly acting in a provocative manner by getting in the cops’ faces and refusing to move.
        How can you then say he wasn’t a provocateur?

        1. That was stupid even for you.

    8. “There’s no evidence to support the claim that …”

      This is what the Establishment says when they refuse to argue the evidence. They just deny that any exists.

      Note the lack of stones to deny that the guy is Antifa. Never put yourself on the line about the facts under contention. Go meta and gaslight.

  2. When he was trying to approach the cops there, I saw him as being, ‘Hey I want a conversation.’

    Ugh, now I’m on the police’s side.

    JUST KIDDING.

    1. “He was approaching at a quick pace with his closed palms filled with Werther’s caramel candies.”

    2. Have a conversation about what? Those police officers were just grunts, essentially. They do not make policy, they just carry it out and they are stressed by the. Trying to touch a cop in that situation is ill considered, much like waving your hand in front of a rattlesnake. Perhaps the police should not have reacted that harshly, but it is the difference between what should be and what is.

      1. Eventually, Gugino will tell his side of the story.

        So far, all he has said is: “No comment other than Black lives matter. Just out of the ICU. Should recover eventually. Thx.” The lack of comment from him may be at his lawyer’s advice.

        1. eventually, you’ll realize how embarassing all these displays are sarc lolololol

          1. I’m thinking you are starting to regret not at least getting a blowie from him. Sadz.

      2. If only police officers were more intelligent than snakes!

  3. Gugino is also a member of PUSH Buffalo…

    Well, with a name like that, what did he expect. It’s like Target doesn’t have a leg to stand on complaining about its stores getting looted.

    1. The government needs to mandate that old people (65+) are required to wear a helmet at all times for their physical safety.

    2. I imagine that PUSH Buffalo is akin to cow tipping.

    3. Well, with a name like that, what did he expect.

      With a name like that

  4. “The future is now, old man!”

  5. The OANN report betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of antifa, which the president evidently shares.

    Not everyone distrusts their chosen media source of information like Reason commenters do.

  6. AS I said in the first article about this incident, I have strong suspicion interaction was intended to draw an over-response or otherwise interfere with the phalanx.

    Not that that matters, the cops still over-reacted and harmed him unnecessarily. Managing agent provocateurs is supposed to be part of the job.

    1. >unnecessarily
      That gimpy Boomer is going to be drawing Social Security checks for another 20 years. Cops should have done everyone a favor and taken a knee on the old man’s throat.

      1. Hopefully COVID will finish the job. /jk

    2. The police officers pushed this man- accidentally too hard- and the man fell awkwardly. I do not believe, looking at the video that the officer who did this meant for him to stumble back and crack his head on the ground.

      That said, where they fucked up was in the complete disregard of him while he lay there, bleeding out. He lays there for quite awhile, with the cop who pushed him just strolling about, as if they don’t care.

      This is a pity because my understanding is that Buffalo police are among the more measured. For example, despite having a large black population, I had read that they have ZERO shootings of unarmed black men, which is pretty fucking good.

      1. Yep. Procedure calls for handcuffs, and calling the EMTs that are always on standby.

      2. “accidentally too hard”

        Maybe. Maybe if that had been the initial story the told. Instead they went with “he tripped,” so I’m skeptical.

        Too hard or not, the shove(s) were intentional acts and the actors are culpable. You or I would not remotely be afforded such freedom of action.

      3. where they fucked up was in the complete disregard of him while he lay there, bleeding out. He lays there for quite awhile, with the cop who pushed him just strolling about, as if they don’t care.

        There were paramedics right behind the police line and a review of the full video (not just the snippet that the media wants us to see) shows that he was receiving medical attention 20 seconds after hitting the ground.

      4. The “blood” was fake, from a tube that came from his mask. A close-up of his head shows it coming from there.
        Blood doesn’t come from the ear canal at that rate from a blow to the back of the head.
        A picture of him getting wheeled way on a gurney shows him on his cell phone, talking to someone.

        1. Hmm.
          Can you link to anything on that, or describe it in detail?
          Wouldn’t be surprising, but I figured he just busted open the back of his head when he hit the concrete

          1. Got to be careful. Progs are trying to stage all kinds of bullshit to gin up outrage. So some of this stuff is sure to be fake.

  7. The “cloning” and “scanning” of cell phones was a thing with the analog phones of the 90’s and early 2000’s, but went away with digital phones that use encrypted communication. These conspiracy theorists need to be a bit more in tune with modern technology.

    1. “These conspiracy theorists…”

      Like the president?

      1. RESPECT MEEEEE! I HAVE GOOOD OPINIONS!!!

        AHAHAHAHAHAHAH

      2. You still push the hotel to Russian servers conspiracy dumbfuck.

      3. Don’t worry. Trump will walk back the tweet with some lame excuse tomorrow. And his apologists will swallow whatever he says whole.

      4. Hey Jeffy, go back to your pedophile support group you sick little piece of shit.

    2. You are not helping yourself when you get the basic concepts alleged so wrong.

      The argument is he was using his cell phone to scan their radios in order to break their radio encryption/identify their frequency patterns. Cops do not use cell phones for communication purposes. Be anti-conspiracy theory all you want, just don’t make arguments based upon ignorance.

      1. And Jeff, anyone with actual Ranger/SoF experience would have recognized this.

      2. That is even more absurd. Cell phones do not have the ability at all to scan police radios. I was trying to tie the claim to something that at least almost plausible. And you can’t blame me for getting the details wrong (which are not laid out, and I did follow the links and google it) about crazy ideas.

        1. He clearly reaches for the cop, around where his gun belt is.
          You can see the surprise on the face of the cop, which is reacted to by the shove.
          Very coincidentally comfortable that the old guy lands with his legs crossed as he lays there.

        2. Um … yeah, they do.

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          1. Molly, doubling down on the stupid.

            Time to change your name ‘molly.’

            Again.

            1. Cell phones just can’t do what is alleged. It is ridiculous.

              1. It’s good to see you’re technologically illiterate. If it has a radio antenna capable of receiving the radio signals in question, then any attached computer can monitor the antenna and decode the signal given time. There are military systems that have capabilities beyond simple encryption which help avoid this, but your average police depart,ent would not have it.

              2. You really don’t understand technology, do you? This isn’t some ancient cell phone with all it’s functions defined by how transistors are arranged on a printed circuit board.

                It’s a general purpose computer with a software controlled radio built into it. With the right app it absolutely can do SIGINT.

                I’m not saying that’s what was going on, or that it was even likely. I’m saying you don’t refute conspiracy theories by making false statements about what’s possible.

              3. To the two commenters to my post: cell phones apps do not have the ability to change the frequency or communications protocol it uses. It is chip specific, that is why a CDMA phone can’t be used on a GSM network. You can’t just switch via software.

                1. The specific app was just an app, but cell phones actually do have a considerably wider reception range than most people realize, such as being capable of picking up FM broadcasts.

                  And software defined radio is starting to penetrate the cell phone market.

                  However, I’m not committed to the idea that he was doing anything of the sort. He walked up to a cop and started poking him with his phone, while a friend was recording to catch the cop’s reaction. Typical protest theater.

          2. That app streams feeds off the net that come from real police scanners. The phone does not pick up any police radio signals. Cell phones can not “scan” police radios.

          3. Um … no, they don’t. That’s an app.

            For a cell phone to be able to scan police radio frequencies, it would need an antenna that can pick up VHF and UHF signals as well as a tuner that can be tuned to the frequencies in question. It would be far easier to just buy a police scanner than it would be to modify a cell phone to add that functionality.

            You don’t call your phone a “weather station” because you have a weather app, do you? No, because your phone doesn’t actually make any measurements. It connects to a server that is connected to a bunch of devices that make measurements.

            1. Don’t make stupid claims without spending a few seconds to research them. You’ve obviously got no idea what modern cell phones are actually capable of.

              1. But, yeah, that app is using actual scanners connected to the network.

  8. “… as a tactic of resistance against the far right”

    I noted a description like this on an NBC article yesterday. I found it a bit credulous there and I’m disappointed to see it echoed here. Maybe I am confusing antifa per se with modern black block activists more generally, but given the spectrum of things these groups classify as “far right” or “fascist” (e.g. ATMs, windows, coffee shops) this turn of phrase seems to me a bucket for carrying their water.

    1. Fascism is an economic theory that vests title to the means of production with corporations, but control of the economy to the state. In other words, socialism with corporate cover. It has always been left wing.
      The use of violence and state surveillance is done by the left and right. Equal opportunity suppression of the masses, as it were.

      1. Single Axis for politics is fundamentally useless.

        Fascism is extremely Nationalist – “Right Wing”
        Super traditionalist – “Right wing”
        Anti-Christian (at least Evola was) – “Left Wing”
        Semi-Nationalized Economy – Moderate Left
        Pro-Military – “Right Wing” also “Left Wing” and “Centrist”
        All encompassing state – “Right Wing” also “Left Wing” and “Centrist”
        Focus on the group rather than the individual – “Left Wing”

        If you only look at the cultural aspect of nationalism and traditionalism it makes sense to call Fascism “right wing” a wider perspective sees how flawed that is as few ideologies fall neatly along a single spectrum like that.

  9. What do you expect from a Law And Order president?

    I wonder if this means the Trump supporters will start sucking cop cock like their commander.

    1. Supporting rioting and looting to own Trump. Way to go dude

      1. Supporting yet another baseless conspiracy theory that originated from Russian intelligence services to own the libs. Way to go dude.

        1. “ThE rUsSiANs!!!!!!!!”

          1. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/president-trump-tweets-antifa-conspiracy-theory-originated-anonymous-blog-n1228356

            Yeah. Another Russian-originated conspiracy theory that the president has latched onto. I wonder why you won’t acknowledge this.

            1. Ahahahah Cry more!

            2. I wonder why you are incapable of telling the truth you little pedo shit.

        2. “Russian intelligence”

          Lol, speaking of baseless conspiracy theories.

          1. Yes, we are speaking of baseless conspiracy theories which originate with Russian intelligence services. Which are then repeated by our useful-idiot-in-chief.

            “Rouz, who previously worked for the Russian state media organization Sputnik, has a record of pushing baseless conspiracy theories on OANN. Last month, Rouz claimed that the coronavirus was a plot by George Soros, Bill Gates, Dr. Anthony Fauci, Bill and Hillary Clinton, and China for ‘population control.'”
            https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/president-trump-tweets-antifa-conspiracy-theory-originated-anonymous-blog-n1228356

            Fyi, useful idiots used by intelligence services are commonly referred to as “assets”.

            1. ahahaha you tried to be a respected commenter but youre so stupid and damaged that you’ve reached the point where everyone laughs at you and you scream at them ahahahahaha

              NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU THINK

              AND YOU KNOW IT AND IT EATS YOU ALIVE AHAHAHAHAHAHAAJA

              1. I don’t laugh at him, and I care what he thinks.

                Of course, I worship you, “tulpa”, because you enlightened me about how one should behave in a public forum.

            2. Yes, we are speaking of baseless conspiracy theories which originate with DNC political operatives. Which are then repeated by useful idiots like DOL.

              Tell us again about the Steele dossier, DOL. Or what Rod Rosenstein just admitted about the basis of the Mueller Report. Maybe explain how Russia stole the entire election for less money than it costs to buy 10 seconds of adspace during the nightly news.

              You’re such a complete flake.

        3. “Supporting yet another baseless conspiracy theory that originated from Russian intelligence services to own the libs. Way to go dude.”

          …now do the Steele dossier.

          1. THAT’S DIFFFERENT!!!

      2. Not supporting cops who bully old men down and step over them as they lay in a puddle of their own blood equals support of looting and rioting? Did you eat stupid pills for breakfast?

        1. Not usually, but in your case, yes.

        2. Ah it’s your diet, now it all makes sense

      3. I didn’t see a shred of evidence that this guy, Martin Gugino, was rioting or looting. Supporting clear abuse of power by police to support Trump. Way to go dude.

        Perhaps if you want to support law and order you should pick out the actual justified uses of force from police as an example and leave these ones alone. According to the right there are so many rioters and looters out there that you don’t need Martin Gugino to prove your point.

        1. Who’s supporting the cops here?

          1. Who’s supporting rioting and looting?

            1. DOL/Nuttplug, sarcasmic/Jeff, Tony, Kirkland, probably Hihn when he gets out.

              1. Kindly link a comment where I support rioting, idiot.

                1. ahahaha you tried to be a respected commenter but youre so stupid and damaged that you’ve reached the point where everyone laughs at you and you scream at them ahahahahaha

                  NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU THINK

                  AND YOU KNOW IT AND IT EATS YOU ALIVE AHAHAHAHAHAHAAJA

                  1. I care what DOL thinks. Of course, I’ve betrayed him and become a trolling asshole, like you, because I worship you.

              2. Did Hihn finally get involuntary committed?

        2. “Leo Kovalensky II
          June.9.2020 at 12:48 pm
          I didn’t see a shred of evidence that this guy, Martin Gugino, was rioting or looting. Supporting clear abuse of power by police to support Trump. Way to go dude.”

          That was your statement.

          1. I was mocking John by mimicking his exact language. Try to keep up.

            1. Lol
              Sure, go with that

              1. You used to provide discussion. Lately you’re just into trolling.

                John
                June.9.2020 at 12:22 pm

                Supporting rioting and looting to own Trump. Way to go dude

                Leo Kovalensky II
                June.9.2020 at 12:48 pm

                …Supporting clear abuse of power by police to support Trump. Way to go dude.

                1. Leo, it takes about 30 seconds to get through what you have to offer to any discussion, and you saying the same superficial, sophomoric shit over and over again is boring.
                  I gave you a chance here and you took the bitch way out.
                  But keep trying, I’m sure the usual shallow ass leftists will regard your vapid assessments as the greatest depth of thought they could imagine.
                  There’s dicks, assholes, and pussies in the world. Nobody really gives a fuck what you pussies have to say

    2. I guess Congress should take control of the Buffalo police department from the President.

      1. And, once they have, you can rest assured that no more old people will get knocked down.

    3. Ahahahaha YOU CHANGED YOUR NAME BACK AHAHAHAHAHAHA

      WHY ARE YOU BOTHERING AAAAHAHAJA

      1. I’m not sarc. For someone I worship, you’re not very bright.

  10. No evidence Antifa was involved except Antifa saying they were going to do it and then bragging about how they did do it. Reason is pathetic

    1. Antifa, like the gulags and the Holodomor, doesn’t exist. It is simply a false narrative promoted by reactionaries.

    2. John, are you seriously saying what I think you’re saying? You think that old man was an antifa super soldier?

      1. You think that old man was an antifa super soldier?

        He was obviously “old Steve Rogers” after he went back in time and married Peggy Carter. He may be old, but don’t underestimate him.

        1. SUPER SOLDIER HURRRR DURRRRR!!!!!

      2. Ahahahah how stupid do you have to be to get “super soldier” from what john said jeff ahahahahahahahahahaha

    3. Reason is reporting on a tweet made by Trump. Dude, lay off the stupid pills.

      1. I think he is responding to the last sentence in Soave’s article:

        “It’s worth remembering that we have scant evidence of widespread antifa involvement in the recent protests.”

        This is clearly bullshit. The link is to an article 8 days earlier which points out that there weren’t “80% out of state agitators” in the MN riots. That is a far, far cry from a claim that there is little evidence Antifa is playing a part in these riots.

        Everything I have seen indicates there was a lot of Antifa present in the riots, and that they were there to turn peaceful protests into violent altercations with the police. There have been several reports from our local police of weapons and rubble being stashed around Huntington Beach and Newport. I regularly see Antifa creeps on Twitter clearly advocating “protests tonight at [insert completely apolitical mall name here]”.

        1. Part of the problem here is the way “antifa” is used. People, usually consumers of right wing media, see antifa as an actual unified organization with rules, hierarchy, coordination, strategy, leadership, etc.. I suspect this is not the case at all. I think antifa is a very loose coordination of like minded people: anarchists, commies, anti-free market types, what have you. I agree that these people are mostly the ones instigating violence from the “protest” side of things. But their presence, capability, and the fear they are being used to stoke is way overblown.

          This is much the same way the media likes to report on the taliban. They act like there are taliban generals issuing order to taliban colonels who direct their forces. When in reality, any asshole in Afghanistan or Pakistan can call themselves Taliban. In reality, it’s not hard to see that the US government can have a cease fire with one group of taliban, but get attacked by another group of taliban. But if you assume that “taliban” means one unified organization with centralized command, then having a ceasefire with the taliban while being in combat with the taliban seems ridiculous.

          1. ahahaha you tried to be a respected commenter but youre so stupid and damaged that you’ve reached the point where everyone laughs at you and you scream at them ahahahahaha

            NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU THINK

            AND YOU KNOW IT AND IT EATS YOU ALIVE AHAHAHAHAHAHAAJA

            1. This is what I learned from you, and why I worship you. You taught me that respected commenters are to be shat upon, and that being a respected commenter is not a worthy goal.

              1. Jesus, dude, just hurry up and ask Tulpa to fart in your mouth already. What a stupid and weak attempt at trolling.

          2. “But their presence, capability, and the fear they are being used to stoke is way overblown.”

            And I call bullshit on this. If there is any “link” between people in Antifa it is that they share and adopt one anothers methodologies. It is very easy to look at a video of looters and rioters and to pick out people who are in Antifa. The looters are usually young urban youths walking around with electronics in their hands.

            The Antifa Rioters, OTOH, are usually white 20-somethings in a hoodie with a face mask. They are often wearing protective gear, like knee pads or chest pads, maybe a helmet of some type. They typically have a backpack on that contains their water bottles and milk as well as other items that can be useful in a riot such as spray paint, but won’t get them arrested for carrying a weapon.

            Go look at the riots. You see hundreds of those guys. They are all over the place. THe looters are there to score some free shit. The rioters are there to make sure that the peaceful protests are not peaceful. The last thing they want is for the less violent BLM types to find any common ground with the police or local government.

            1. Theyre set up the same way you do any terrorist cells. Distribute an ideology and broad system of tactics, then trust that small groups will be locally organized and able to act on their own.
              Wouldn’t at all be surprised if there some common contacts and a group of organizers behind the scenes

      2. Ahahahah HE USED “STUPID PILLS” AGAIN OMFG HOW LAME AHAHAHAHAHA

    4. Cops already had their story that he tripped before video evidence surfaced. How many different excuses do they get?

      Which one do they get to pick from next:
      “I ran outta gas. I had a flat tire. I didn’t have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn’t come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from outta town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake, a terrible flood, locust’s. It wasn’t my fault!

  11. This is such a bullshit response by Trump. Fuck him. Cops already said the man trip before they knew about the video. What an asshole.

    1. Still probably right about the guy being antifa, though.
      And it’s not like your team doesn’t regularly imply that everyone you don’t like are Nazis and klansmen on flimsy basis, so your anger is pretty hypocritical.

      1. You must have me mistaken for someone else, my “team” just bitches about government ran by both sides and has no political power aka libertarian.

        1. There is no “I” in team, but there are exactly two in libertarian. The same number of actual libertarians.

          1. “There is no “I” in team”

            No but there is an “m” and an “e”

            1. Wrong. The I is in the A hole. You, of all people should know that.

      2. “your team”

        Absolutely disgusting. You need to get back to reading the basics on libertarianism. You aren’t ready for current events or conversations with libertarians.

        1. ahahaha you tried to be a respected commenter but youre so stupid and damaged that you’ve reached the point where everyone laughs at you and you scream at them ahahahahaha

          NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU THINK

          AND YOU KNOW IT AND IT EATS YOU ALIVE AHAHAHAHAHAHAAJA

          1. Dude, I worship you, but even I think this schtick is stale.

            On the other hand, I ascribe to your goal of destroying all real conversation here, so keep doing you.

        2. DOL, you’re not fooling anyone. There’s nothing remotely libertarian in the authoritarian collectivist nonsense you prattle… except maybe your libertinism regarding buggery.

          You and, yes, your team, Team (D), have about as much commitment to libertarian social and economic values as Pol Pot. Why you imagine your tricking people into thinking you’re anything other than party operatives is beyond me.

          1. Cite one instance of authoritarian collectivism I have endorsed.

  12. On the one hand I wouldn’t put anything past Antifa, but trying to set up the cops using an old man to try and get sympathy (or something – I’m not sure what the end game for that would be) doesn’t seem like their usual MO. They’re more into the “smash windows, hit people with bike locks, ‘bash the fash'” kind of bullshit.

    Gugino was affiliated with the Catholic Worker movement—a nonviolent activist group—and several other organizations, according to interviews with his friends:

    I kind of figured when this story first broke that he was more than likely an old activist out trying to relive the late ’60s or something, so this doesn’t surprise me.

    Still no reason for the cops to react the way they did. He wasn’t much of a threat to them, and even if he was taunting the cops, I’m sure there were plenty of other younger, more fit protestors doing the same. It’s rather telling that the one they shoved to the ground was a skinny elderly man. These guys are obviously “Big Damn Heroes.”

    1. “but trying to set up the cops using an old man to try and get sympathy… doesn’t seem like their usual MO”

      based on how the rest of these protests have gone it does, we already know the same protesters were switching between peaceful and rioting depending on the circumstances

      1. Then arrest them for their actions when rioting. I don’t understand how the cops keep falling for this trick if it is indeed a trick.

        It’s quite simple really. Don’t bash people’s heads in for petty crimes like breaking curfew. When you bash people’s heads in for petty crimes like breaking curfew or using counterfeit bills you are pretty much proving the point for Antifa. The police are losing the support of the public, just as they should be with actions like this. That’s exactly what Antifa is trying to accomplish.

        1. Who the fuck are you talking to, Leo?
          You might need some professional help

          1. Not you.

            1. nor anyone else since no one cares what you think

              i mean fuck how long have you been here impotently flogging your opinions and still no one cares

    2. Well, yes, there is a reason. You can’t let someone stop the advanceof a police line as they are moving in formation to clear and area. That is what the line is for, to push people back

      1. WHich, you know, shouldn’t have been happening. Seriously, there was no riot. Why send in the riot police? Because they were sitting there calmly and peacefully too late at night? What a joke!

    3. Both “sides” engage is all sorts of false flag operations, from blacks setting their own churches on fire to blame it on Trump supports to firefighters setting their own houses on fire to blame it on BLM. Almost everyone wants to be viewed as the “victim” these days. It’s f-ing pathetic.

  13. Every time I think Trump has crossed the line, I remember that his supporters don’t care about lines. He mocked a disabled veteran during the campaign and the entire Republican Party cheered him on. How he claims a 75 year old man the cops knocked to the ground and left to bleed had it coming to him. How will the Republican Party defend this? Will they even bother defending it or will they just keep on cheering the lout on?

    1. Trump is pure, hungry Id. He’s a perpetually hormonal 13-year-old girl who’s about a minute from a tantrum, all the time. He’s the hero to your bum brother-in-law who drinks your last beer, the uncle who still calls black people “the coloreds.”

      They will never give up on him. But, thankfully, unless the Ds massively f*ck up this fall or Biden shows up to a debate with an onion tied to his belt, he’ll be gone next year.

      1. Been reading Vox again, huh.

      2. But, thankfully, unless the Ds massively f*ck up this fall or Biden shows up to a debate with an onion tied to his belt, he’ll be gone next year.

        In other words, his re-election is all but guaranteed. /sarc

        Seriously though, if your hope is that Joe Biden won’t do something extremely stupid/ embarrassing during a live televised debate, I don’t know what to tell you. If he manages to get through an entire debate without soiling himself, forgetting where he is, and having his teeth fall out – all at the same time – I’d be surprised.

        Don’t get me wrong, it brings me no joy to say this, as I disagree with a lot of Trump’s positions but I think he has a much higher chance of re-election than many think. Just “not fucking up” is not going to cut it.

        1. Both our fine major party Presidential candidates are going to have a tough time getting through a debate with any degree of coherence. Fortunately for them, their respective partisans won’t care.

          And, yes, that is bothsidesism — fuck you if you are here on a libertarian blog complaining about bothsidesism.

      3. I’d much prefer Trump winning over Biden and I agree with your assessment of Trump for the most part. Both are assholes beyond belief but Trump is nice an transparent and the lefty media don’t run cover for him. Don’t think I can stomach another term like Obama’s and the media fawning over the peace candidate with the secret kill list who illegally engaged in the overthrow of a foreign government without Congressional approval and who spies illegally on the American people.

        1. The righty media runs cover for Trump, though. Why doesn’t that bother you equally to the lefty media’s behavior?

          1. Because it stings more. I started out left-independent out of high school (grand thesis: legalize it man) became more aligned with the Dems during Bush’s disastrous war in Iraq. Believed Obama wouldn’t get us into more disasters in the ME and would work to roll back the Patriot Act. And then watched as the sources who bashed Bush (rightly so), turned into cheerleaders for Obama for even worse behavior.

          2. The righty media represents a pittance of the actual media in this country. Yeah, so Fox news pulls down like 2 Million day viewers. The three networks do like 30 million viewers in a single half hour each night. CNN and MSNBC together have more viewers than Fox.

            Seriously, does it worry you at all that for 8 years, the Anti-War movement was basically in a coma with the media ignoring people like Cindy Sheehan merely because a D was the president?

          3. The righty media runs cover….

            That’s rich.

            Sure, he can count on Limbaugh and Hannity and some decent coverage from FOX sometimes. And that’s it. Just some choir preaching.

            Meanwhile, every major news network and every major newspaper is literally taking orders from on high about what to cover and how to cover it… all for the advancement of team blue.

            But sure, go with “both sides”. That’ll work.

      4. They will never give up on him. But, thankfully, unless the Ds massively f*ck up this fall or Biden shows up to a debate with an onion tied to his belt, he’ll be gone next year.

        Dude at this point Biden is the onion.
        The only way a debate would not be catastrophic for Biden is if they radio in a vocal double while he moves his jaw up and down pretending to speak… And even then. I know it’s not pc to suggest that he may not be a supergenius but the guy literally shit his pants on live TV.

      5. I am not happy that both parties are running septuagenarians for President. That said Biden is far from being down the trail to dementia. Yes, he is inarticulate but that is a long standing fault. Trump on the other hand has trouble speaking and in some cases seem to not know what he is saying, replacing words at random. Trump has a very limit attention span, another sign of dementia. Finally Trump is combative, a third sign of dementia. So you are looking at 3 to 1 odds that Trump has the dementia. So Trump might bring and onion to the debate and suggest you inject it to treat COVID-19.

        1. ahahhhhh ahahhhahhhahahhh

          DON’T BELIEVE YOUR LYING EYES, NO IT’S TRUMP WITH DEMENTIA AHAHAHHHH

          GO WITH THAT AHAHAHAHAH!!!

          1. Whose the one lying to themselves. You think Trump is all there? The facts are plan as the nose on your face, you just don’t want to believe them. He is inarticulate, he is inattentive, he is belligerent. He is ready for a home. When Trump is out everyone working with him will be saying they knew, but there was nothing they could do.

            1. Just a word of advice, from a convert to tulpa’s cult: you don’t want to attempt actual conversation with him.

          1. No no it’s TRUMP WITH DEMENTIA didn’t you see his Jimmy The Greek like breakdown of the odds lolololol

        2. ” Yes, he is inarticulate but that is a long standing fault”

          Bush was inarticulate. Biden has dementia

        3. “Trump has dementia.”

          (Insert .gif of blond guy shaking his head and blinking in disbelief)

          It really is all about projection with you people.

          Trump’s a bullshit artist and a God-tier troll. He’s not suffering from dementia. Biden, OTOH? Jury’s out.

          1. The question is which side is doing the projecting? The facts are Trump is showing more signs of dementia than Biden. They are both too old to be President, but it is the choice we have. As for being a BS artist, yes he has you watching the wrong things. Biden is inarticulate and mixes up his facts, Trump avoid facts or makes them up. Trump has no attention span. Look at the length people have to go through to brief him. Finally he is belligerent, look at the way he speaks to reporters or what he puts on tweeter. Would a person with all his faculties accuse a 75 year of being a ANTIFA radical?

            1. Absolutely zero sane people believe that. Biden is clearly having issues… there can be no argument about that. It has been getting worse for a very long time and it is fairly plain. These aren’t simple stumbles over words like Bush had all the time, nor are they even the rare brain fart where you say the wrong thing for no apparent reason – like Obama and the 47 states. The guy is clearly in a mental decline.

              Trump is a douche. Trump has always been a douche. This much is known. But there are no “train of thought” issues that appear to be dementia related.

              If you are going to push a partisan agenda, pick one that is at least consistent with what is in plain sight. “Trump is a narcissist” works… because, well.. narcissist. But “nuh-uh… my guy isn’t getting senile, theirs is!” is just childish and stupid.

              1. There are no train of thought issues? I have identified 3 dementia related issues exhibited by President Trump that you and other are simply looking past.

    2. >>He mocked a disabled veteran

      Biden demanded a wheel-chair bound one stand up

  14. Gugino is also a member of PUSH Buffalo and Western New York Peace Center,

    I believe according to the Seattle Times’ editorial standards, he is in fact a member of a far left group.

  15. he hasn’t paid taxes in ten years and puts his dog on the car roof when they drive to the lake

    1. Binders. Filled with Women.

  16. “When he was trying to approach the cops there, I saw him as being, ‘Hey I want a conversation.’

    Sure, I’ve had my kids wanting that same sort of conversation when I tell them it’s bedtime. They’re hungry, they’re thirsty, they need to get to the next save point, it’s always some good reason why they can’t go to bed just now.

    As I understand it, the city set a curfew and the cops were forming up to clear the area at curfew time and suddenly this guy gets in the cops’ faces because he wants to have a conversation. Why couldn’t the cops just go around the guy? Because going around people who don’t want to clear the area is not how clearing the area works. Why didn’t the cops stop to help the guy? Because you don’t break ranks when you’re forming a clearing the area line. I doubt that this guy was working for Antifa, just a generic old hippy socialist, but I’d guess he was deliberately provoking the cops, maybe hoping to get arrested for his totally peaceful civil disobedience. Now’s not a good time, goober, you got more than you were bargaining for, didn’t you?

    Not to mention, I’ve seen the video – what does he have in his hand and what the hell is he doing with it? You get your hand that close to a cop’s gun belt, yeah, you are going to get put down. And as far as the rest of the squad resigning – yeah, the city orders you to enforce the curfew and clear the street and then throws you under the bus for doing your job? Fuck the government. Let the pricks at City Hall enforce their own fucked-up edicts. #DefundTheGovernment

    And no, I’m not defending police brutality, I just don’t see any excessive amount of police brutality beyond the usual “Respect My Authoritah” – guy got in their way, they shoved him out of the way. I’m pretty sure the cop that stopped wasn’t stopping to tase him or stomp on his neck or anything, he was stopping to check on the guy. His buddy pulled him along because they’ve got a line to maintain, let the guys in the rear check on the guy.

    1. A story on this a few days ago mentioned that the police benevolent association was not going to provide for the legal defense of any SWAT or emergency response police as a matter of course. If that is the case, I understand the mass resignation from that team (no the police force). There is little reason for them to put themselves in legal jeopardy enforcing curfews and such without being backed up.

      1. “A story on this a few days ago mentioned that the police benevolent association was not going to provide for the legal defense of any SWAT or emergency response police as a matter of course. If that is the case, I understand the mass resignation from that team.”

        LOL, really? That’s amazing. How do they still have cops working there? I’d be gone, and to hell with the banked time towards my pension. They’ve lost their minds in city government.

      2. What kind of job lets you resign your work assignment but keep your employment?

    2. I’m pretty sure the cop that stopped wasn’t stopping to tase him or stomp on his neck or anything, he was stopping to check on the guy. His buddy pulled him along because they’ve got a line to maintain, let the guys in the rear check on the guy.

      And you are correct. There were paramedics right behind the police line and a review of the full video (not just the snippet that the media wants us to see) shows that he was receiving medical attention 20 seconds after hitting the ground.

    3. “– what does he have in his hand and what the hell is he doing with it? You get your hand that close to a cop’s gun belt, yeah, you are going to get put down.”

      This. Also, was he pushed that hard or is he backpedaling for show? In any case, he’s clearly backpedaling and trips. I don’t see how the original description of the incident is outrageously off base.

      Much as I’m for firing and prosecuting abusive cops, I’m not feeling this one. The SLC cops pushing the old man with a cane *from behind* is far more egregious. No charges for those fuckers, of course.

      1. A tall guy got caught off balance when he was pushed. That’s it.

        No way the cop intended to do more than just push the dude away from another cop. Normally when you push a person larger than you, you aren’t expecting them to cartwheel backwards and plank the back of their head into the ground.

    4. His buddy pulled him along because they’ve got a line to maintain, let the guys in the rear check on the guy.

      Reminds me of the scene from Starship Troopers where the guy gets courtmartialed for stopping to repair the M-3 Tactical Helmet. If the dude was an EMT, they wouldn’t have put a shield in his hands. If he wasn’t an EMT, the best he’s going to do for the guy is cradle him and shout “Stay with me!”.

    5. “I’m not defending police brutality…”

      You kinda are.

      1. He and I disagree on this but you are the one who is plainly wrong.

    6. close up of the guy shows the “blood” not coming from his ear canal. Looks more like from where his mask “strap” meets the ear, as if there was a tube coming from there.
      https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/06/did_an_aged_activist_set_up_the_buffalo_police.html

  17. As sure as the sun rises, Trump just has to tweet something scummy every f’ing day.

    1. And we will follow each and every one with with eagerness and anticipation.

    2. and you have to cry about it sarc ahahahahaha

      1. I love you, man.

  18. Can’t speak for Trump (not my guy) nor for the antifas (not my people)

    all I know is if you step up to me unexpectedly while I’m carrying and reach your hand toward my waistband … you’re gonna get a quick hard shove backwards too

    1. And you’d lie about it afterward and say the guy tripped?

      1. Depends on if he trips or not, doesn’t it?

      2. He did fucking trip you blind fucking moron. People have been shot for less than what that clumsy frail old fart did. Maybe the old bastard thought his Life Alert pendant was going to ward off the strength of those younger amped up riot police. It’s not their fault the fucker has the balance of a toddler.

        1. Kinda is. Police are there to protect the public and keep the peace. Not to rough people up or treat people like enemy combatants.

  19. To mix vintage game machine metaphors:

    Trump’s brain is always like a pachinko machine, with shiny little balls of crazy bouncing wildly off of shiny little pins of stupidity til they fall into a hole in the bottom.

    The panic that made Bunker Boy cower in his bunker sucking his thumb, though; tilted Trump’s brain like a pinball machine. He’s all bells and buzzers and flashing lights warning that the machine is shutting down and his game is over.

    1. we get Hihn, you’re an old

    2. False. Trump has no bottom.

    3. Like how Bill Barr undermined Trump’s story that he was just inspecting the bunker.

      By the way, why the heck was the Attorney General commanding the National Guard in Lafayette Square, anyway? Is that part of the job description?

  20. Regardless of what Gugino intended, there’s no excuse for how the police officers handled him. It was wrong of them to shove an elderly man who posed no threat to them.</blockquote.

    This doesn't even scan, dude.

    1. You're saying here that there is no excuse for what the police did REGARDLESS OF HIS INTENTIONS. That's saying that if he was there to shoot a cop, you're still saying that there was no excuse to push him back.

    2. You seem to accept the story that the dude was there to skim comms. That's an aggressive action. Cops, IMO, had every right to prevent that. Could it have been done in a better manner? Absolutely. Did the cop react inappropriately to what he thought was happening (on old dude approaching them too closely)? Absolutely. But the dude's not an innocent victim in this either. That is more than civil disobedience.

    1. Way to twist Soave’s meaning. He was clearly talking about intentions within the realm of facts known about Gugino, not any possible intentions he could have in an alternate reality.

    2. The guy was waving around a cell phone like a dead chicken. It has not been established that it is technically possible to do any “skimming” that way. Soave didn’t accept anything; he left the possibility open.

      Could it have been done in a better manner? Abso-fucking-lutely. That’s the point.

  21. I thought the police shoving an elderly man to the sidewalk causing him to almost die would be a no-brainer on a libertarian comment board. And it is… just not the way I thought it would be. Jesus Christ, man, these authoritarian GOP fucks are out in force.

    1. They follow Trump’s lead.

      1. Following Trump’s lead ain’t always easy, by the way.

        It’s funny when they rush to defend Trump, then Trump himself undermines their rationalizations for his behavior. As when they rushed to defend his stating that maybe UV light could be inserted in someone’s lungs. They worked hard to find a company that is investigating such a technology, then Trump undermined them the next day by saying he was being sarcastic.

    2. It’s possible to hold more than one non-contradictory concept in your head at the same time. “We need police reform” is not contradictory to “big dude gets pushed and trips and it’s not police brutality.” That’s what people are arguing about mostly, not whether or not he was trying to zap the police’s radios.

      If you’re surprised about why more people aren’t jumping on the brutality bandwagon with this one, it’s because most people aren’t going to think “when I shove this guy who’s taller than me, he’s going to cartwheel backwards and smash his brain open.”

      You have to come in expecting to see police brutality for your bias to confirm it.

    3. In worker’s paradise, all but party leadership will be permanently “retired” at age 55 to assure that elderly will not be around to be mistreated.

  22. Is it even technically possible to “skim” police communications with a mobile phone? I could only find one source online, who explained that it is not possible to skim police radio frequencies with just a mobile phone.

    Maybe he was trying to “skim” the police officers’ personal mobile phones by waving his mobile phone around like a dead chicken. Can that even work?

    1. On the other hand, found several references to police using various techniques to listen in on private mobile phone conversations.

      Also, the Buffalo police radio wasn’t even encrypted.

      1. I just look at as what I, as an armed citizen, would do if unexpectedly approached by someone who suddenly reached toward my waistline. Yeah, I’d give you a hard shove away from me. So, I don’t see how the cop has any less right to protect his person in that respect – —

        – & esp considering further this cop has been directed to march in a formation to clear the street of an emotionally charged crowd who have already been given multiple lawful orders to disperse from that particular area & considering the obstruction and attacks cops have been experiencing this past week or so performing that particular duty.

        So far as I’m concerned what happened to that old dude was his own damn fault. Keep your hands to yourself.

        1. Apologist. They didn’t need to handle a 75-year-old so roughly, no matter what he did.

          1. Stop acting like this was some Mister Magoo-looking frail old geezer handing out Werther’s and the police came up and Cobra Kai kicked his walker out from under him.

    2. Much more importantly, did the freekin’ President of the United States stop to think about *any* of these questions before re-tweeting the OANN story. Nope.

      1. Note your question, “POTUS stop to think”? No the President does not stop to think, he is addle brained, has a short attention span, and is lazy. He simple reacts.

  23. How in the world does this president have time TO WATCH SO MUCH BAD TV?

  24. Whether it has anything directly to do with Antifa or not, the video evidence is pretty clear. There are several angles where people are talking about what he’s about to do and how he’s about to provoke a response and they want to catch it on video.

    So the entire narrative of “out of control cops knock doddering old man senseless, nearly killing him” was a lie from the jump.

    At first blush, I didn’t think shoving the old guy was the right move… but if you watch the other angles you can see that he really forced their hand. He wasn’t going to do as ordered and turn around and walk the other way. So it was either push the guy or arrest him.

    I don’t know exactly where to file this one, but I really don’t think it belongs in the “police brutality” box.

    1. Bullshit – you just gave the answer – they should have arrested him…they’ve been so busy ignoring looters they should have plenty of time for arresting a guy like him.

      Bootlickers…

      1. “ – they should have arrested him…”

        And then your faggot ass would be crying about the cops arresting a “peaceful protester” who didn’t do anything. Never mind his hand was in the vicinity of the cop’s gun, but I’m sure you would shit out some lame excuse for that too like, bUT Muh LibERTaRianISm!!!

        1. Or we could wait for MVP to give his own reply, rather than your making up a response for him.

  25. Trump is just so fucking stupid – this virus basically put the election right in his lap. All he had to do was appear reasonably competent, not stay dumb shit, and not come off as a fucking imbecile. He would have walked away with in November, especially with the DNC again picking the worst possible candidate they could find.

    But he just can’t do it. If he does win, it is only because Biden is such a cretin himself.

    I personally don’t care who wins, because they both have their lips firmly wrapped around the crank of the corporatocracy.

    1. A virus that shut the entire economy down, putting 30 million people out of work just handed him the election? I’m having a hard time following…

      But let’s go with your version… he acts as competently as humanly possible. Then what happens?

      Well, we have an example that was run at exactly the same time. Mario Cuomo of New York and Ron DeSantis of Florida had the exact same challenge – similar population sized states, early influx of travelers with Covid-19.

      Cuomo responded terribly. New York did everything wrong – and not just wrong, but literally killing thousands of people by requiring nursing homes to admit patients who had covid-19. The absolute last place you’d want to allow people with covid-19.

      At the same time, DeSantis did about as good as you could ask. He’s got large urban centers, rural populations, heavy tourist industry and a large, disparate state. He worked with mayors and county level officials to design a policy that allowed for flexibility at the local level, ordered more testing kits than the rest of the nation combined, asked for federal help with the very large numbers of covid infected travelers coming in from the northeast… and all of that worked to keep the curve very flat in a very challenging state.

      And the media spent the entire covid lockdown singing the praises of Cuomo and his wonderful response. A response that saw more people in New York get Covid and die of covid than most of the rest of the nation combined. Unarguably the worst response in the entire nation, but he was on CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS on a daily basis receiving praise for his tremendous response.

      Meanwhile, DeSantis was specifically singled out for scorn from those same media outlets. They ran scare stories about beaches not being closed in counties that had no cases of covid-19. They were horrified that the Miami area was locked down but the panhandle, some 800 miles away was not. He was excoriated for talking to Trump about the crisis and for asking for help restricting the influx of people from the New York hot spot. Florida had an extremely low infection rate…. despite early arrival via the travel industry and despite large influxes of carriers from the northeast fleeing lockdowns to warmer climes.

      The result? Poll numbers for Cuomo were super-high, both nationally and within New York. He was being pushed as a replacement for Biden on the DNC ticket for president. And DeSantis saw his numbers plummet, even in Florida. Despite his government’s excellent handling of the issue, even in Florida polls showed wide disapproval of the way it was being handled.

      So we have an issue that few people really understand, that they are only learning about via the media, and that has a limited time for people to discover their own facts…. and Trump was going to be portrayed as a winner in any possible scenario?

      Yeah…. I think the last 3 years has pretty well proven that this isn’t an accurate prediction.

    2. agreed. I hope Jo Jorgensen can get some traction, because i don’t think we have ever been more in need of a better option than what the two parties are handing us.

  26. I’ve come here and defended Trump on many occasions but his twitter obsession is going to cost him the election. This story was moments from being dumped from the news cycle and he had to go and resurrect it. Dumbass. Now we have serious journalists like famed Fox News talking head Robby Soave writing deep analysis pieces on the subject. Seems to me there are more pressing issues at hand than whether some old guy is a super secret Antifa provocateur.

  27. Invoke the 25th Amendment! Trump’s mad as a hatter!

    Should’a been done in January of 2017, but better late than never.

  28. I’ll vote for him in November, but my god Trump is an idiot. Biden should be easier to beat than Hillary, but Trump spends all day firing a machine gun at his own feet.

    1. So, why vote for him?

      1. Because my alternative is the communist utopia known as the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone?

        I live near Seattle, I know where the democrats will take this country if they don’t stop pandering to their worst elements.

  29. At 75 he should be wiser and tending to his garden or playing with his grandchildren giving lessons about life.

    Not this stupid, idiotic shit.

    Trump’s an idiot but that guy deserves a good slap to the head.

    Do stupid shit, expect stupid prizes.

    1. There’s that patented Rufus empathy.

  30. HOW MANY BLACK PEOPLE WORK AT REASON?

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